Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
Speaker 1: Danielle Robe and each week, my guests and i'd come
Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
Speaker 1: And who says?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
Speaker 1: to question everything. Okay, I have a confession. I did
Speaker 1: something wild this weekend. I called my ex boyfriend. I
Speaker 1: haven't spoken to him in like six years. I've ignored
Speaker 1: all of his messages that he sent me, and there
Speaker 1: haven't been that many. But I just wasn't ready to
Speaker 1: talk to him, and I called him and I don't
Speaker 1: know if you care to even hear this, but I
Speaker 1: wanted to say thank you, and I haven't been able
Speaker 1: to say thank you because our relationship was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I didn't say this to him, but it was,
Speaker 1: like I think, in hindsight, pretty toxic and had some
Speaker 1: like insane things that happen. I've shared pieces or story
Speaker 1: like small stories of it on the podcast over the
Speaker 1: years and one day I'll dive in more fully or
Speaker 1: more deeply. Maybe it's for a book. I don't know.
Speaker 1: We'll see. It is a saga, though, and I went
Speaker 1: through all of the phases of grief. I was in
Speaker 1: shock and denial and then anger, and then bargaining and
Speaker 1: depression and acceptance when we broke up, and then I
Speaker 1: was over it, like fully over it. Never even thought
Speaker 1: about him, but every so often memories would pop into
Speaker 1: my mind, less about him and more about me, and
Speaker 1: I'd feel like this pang of anger towards myself for
Speaker 1: the way that I handled something, or like what I
Speaker 1: allowed or how I acted. And then sometimes I would
Speaker 1: be more gentle and I would think of my twenty five,
Speaker 1: twenty six year old self and hold her with more
Speaker 1: grace and acceptance. But anyways, I called him and I
Speaker 1: said thank you. And it took me a long time
Speaker 1: to find peace and meaning and understanding and everything that
Speaker 1: happened in our relationship and beyond. But I'm finally at
Speaker 1: a point where I can see so many good things
Speaker 1: that came from it, and to be honest, somewhere from him.
Speaker 1: But a lot of it was just the pain that
Speaker 1: it caused like forced me into growth. Either way, I
Speaker 1: wanted to thank him, and the experience calling him had
Speaker 1: me thinking about this episode with Tefi Psoa, because we
Speaker 1: often frame heartbreak as losing another person, but Tefi shared
Speaker 1: that the hardest part, in many ways, was losing the
Speaker 1: version of herself that existed before that person hurt her.
Speaker 1: It's like that version of you that trusted a little faster,
Speaker 1: that got excited a little easier, that believed what people said,
Speaker 1: that walked into love without looking for an exit. You know,
Speaker 1: Cheryl strad who is such a great writer, once said,
Speaker 1: you don't have a new heart after heartbreak. You have
Speaker 1: the same heart that's learned something. But when I was
Speaker 1: talking to Tefie, I was thinking, what if we learn
Speaker 1: the wrong lesson? Like what if heartbreak doesn't make us wiser?
Speaker 1: What if it makes us smaller or more guarded or
Speaker 1: less hopeful, less ourselves. I don't know. I think it's
Speaker 1: a journey. And that's the conversation you're about to hear.
Speaker 1: We are revisiting our conversation with Tefi Psoa. Millions of
Speaker 1: people know her as the Internet's best friend, the person
Speaker 1: who somehow finds the words for feelings that so many
Speaker 1: of us struggle to explain and say. Since we first
Speaker 1: recorded this conversation, she's become the host of Love Island
Speaker 1: USA Aftersun, which, unfortunately, Love Island has me in a
Speaker 1: choke hold. If you're watching, here's a hot take. Zach
Speaker 1: is my least favorite man in the villa and if
Speaker 1: you agree or disagree with me, feel free to DM
Speaker 1: me we can have a discussion about it. But back
Speaker 1: to Tppie, she has continued to build one of the
Speaker 1: most thoughtful communities on the Internet, and one of the
Speaker 1: things I love most about her is the way that
Speaker 1: she sees people. When I interviewed her, I thought we
Speaker 1: were going to talk about breakups and heartbreak, and instead
Speaker 1: we talked about refusing to let someone else's choices steal
Speaker 1: your tenderness.
Speaker 2: I told my ex I missed the person that I was.
Speaker 2: I like who I am, but that girl, I'm never
Speaker 2: going to know her again because you put me through
Speaker 2: things that I probably didn't have to learn. I'll never
Speaker 2: be that little twenty seven year old girl so excited
Speaker 2: to meet up with you.
Speaker 1: Isn't it so interesting that you're not just mourning another person,
Speaker 1: You're also mourning the version of your self that they
Speaker 1: took with them. And the beautiful thing is this conversation
Speaker 1: doesn't end there, because healing isn't about becoming who you
Speaker 1: were before. It's about becoming something wiser. It's about protecting
Speaker 1: the parts of yourself that make you hopeful and generous
Speaker 1: and open, even after someone gave you every reason not to.
Speaker 1: So if you've ever wondered whether heartbreak changes you forever,
Speaker 1: I think you'll come away from this conversation feeling a
Speaker 1: little less alone. It's time to question everything with Teffi Posoa. Okay,
Speaker 1: so before we jump into heartbreak, I need to know
Speaker 1: about your upbringing, who you were as a kid, where
Speaker 1: you grew up, all the things.
Speaker 2: So I grew up in Miami, small town. Not a
Speaker 2: lot happening there. It's only happened like once or twice
Speaker 2: that people were like, oh Miami, Ohio. I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: no Florida. And I think growing up there really kind
Speaker 2: of like truly molded me as a person in a
Speaker 2: way where I don't think people realize because when people
Speaker 2: ask me about like being Latina, I'm like, you don't understand,
Speaker 2: Like you come from a place I kind of compare
Speaker 2: it to like when you see your teachers at the
Speaker 2: supermarket and you're like, what are you doing here? Get
Speaker 2: back home to school? You live there, So like for Miami,
Speaker 2: I was like that was my whole world. So I
Speaker 2: thought that the percentage of Latin people that was like
Speaker 2: all over the world. And so when I think about,
Speaker 2: you know, things I've experienced or like, whether it be anger, pride, disappointment, heartbreak, joy,
Speaker 2: I've only experienced it around and with Latin people. I
Speaker 2: just feel like, growing up in Miami, there's a reason
Speaker 2: there are so many Cuban people. There's a reason there's
Speaker 2: so many Haitian people. There's a reason there's a lot
Speaker 2: of Guatemalan people. There's a reason there's a lot of
Speaker 2: Venezuelan people. So you're around a lot of people who
Speaker 2: have the courage to start again. And I think that
Speaker 2: really was something really influential to me too, because the
Speaker 2: idea of starting over again and getting up again was
Speaker 2: not foreign to me, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: there's a courage there and there's a sense of I
Speaker 2: can do it too that I grew up around. That
Speaker 2: I think definitely influenced me more than I realized as
Speaker 2: a kid, you know.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. As I was watching your
Speaker 1: videos and reading your tweets. You are so comfortable with
Speaker 1: your feelings, and it actually like pushes up against my
Speaker 1: fears in some way because I come from a family
Speaker 1: where they're not so comfortable with feelings. It's the exact opposite.
Speaker 1: And I look at you with simultaneous admiration and fright.
Speaker 2: Me too.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, Like, so is it It's just natural for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's natural the way that I
Speaker 2: approach things. I think it's because because I was the
Speaker 2: oldest and my parents broke up when I was like
Speaker 2: in second grade, they immediately my mom immediately put me
Speaker 2: into therapy, and she put us all into therapy. But
Speaker 2: I think maybe I was the oldest that I like
Speaker 2: I took to it. When it came to feelings. I
Speaker 2: realized that, like, my feelings were getting hurt a lot
Speaker 2: as a kid, and the only way to make me
Speaker 2: feel better was if I understood what somebody meant by that.
Speaker 2: And through like years going by, I understood that if
Speaker 2: I could get them to tell me what they meant
Speaker 2: in a way where they felt safe with me, that
Speaker 2: I would be able to navigate things better. And it
Speaker 2: started really really young for me, like really young, Like
Speaker 2: I remember being in fifth grade and being like, I
Speaker 2: know sometimes we get scared, but why did you scream
Speaker 2: at me during heads up? Steven up?
Speaker 1: So when you're in relationship, do you find yourself excuses
Speaker 1: for your partner because you're really understanding where they're coming from.
Speaker 2: No, I've had people be like, not everything has to
Speaker 2: be such a deep dive.
Speaker 1: I'm the same people see me.
Speaker 2: Like everything not everything has to be such a deep dive,
Speaker 2: And for me, I'm just like, but you don't understand.
Speaker 2: If I don't understand, then I have to accept that
Speaker 2: you're an asshole.
Speaker 1: I don't know your why.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, and you have to tell me
Speaker 2: your why, because if you don't tell me your why,
Speaker 2: I have to accept that I've wasted a year on
Speaker 2: an asshole. It's only with age that I realized everybody
Speaker 2: has a why, but everybody is to me like shit.
Speaker 2: So that was really fucked up for me to think about.
Speaker 2: For a while. I was like, why would you come
Speaker 2: to that truth, Teffy? And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm really pissing myself off. But a lot of people have.
Speaker 2: Nobody has a perfect story, right, Like everybody has their issues,
Speaker 2: Like everybody has something in their lives that molded them,
Speaker 2: whether they liked it or not. We've all had terrible things.
Speaker 2: But I don't think I would ever be able to
Speaker 2: hurt somebody in the way that other people have chosen
Speaker 2: to hurt me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's a really hard thing to accept.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think also something that young people think, and
Speaker 2: I wish I could shake it out of them. What
Speaker 2: do you mean that you'll be the lesson and they'll
Speaker 2: treat the next person better. It is such a farce.
Speaker 2: It is such a lie. Yeah, there is one thing
Speaker 2: in a person that I believe is like a stain.
Speaker 2: It's like bleach on clothing, and no matter how much
Speaker 2: time has passed, that will always remain, especially the longer
Speaker 2: it's left to like fester. If you meet a man
Speaker 2: in their late twenties early thirties that is selfish. You're
Speaker 2: looking at a selfish man.
Speaker 1: What age do you think? That's? Because I agree with you,
Speaker 1: but I think when you're young, young, like eighteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: people are still growing into themselves. I think if you
Speaker 1: meet a man at thirty five.
Speaker 2: This is selfish.
Speaker 1: He is who he is.
Speaker 2: That is it? That person is doneloading. I want to say,
Speaker 2: because of the the brain development from a biological point
Speaker 2: of view, maybe twenty five. But if I met an
Speaker 2: agily young, it's really young. But that's when your friendtal
Speaker 2: lobe stops developing, right, I know, I googled it.
Speaker 1: I had like the breakup that like obliterated my heart,
Speaker 1: and I've learned through therapy it was really more about
Speaker 1: like the breakup. It wasn't so much him. It was
Speaker 1: like it broke It brought up a lot of inner
Speaker 1: child stuff for me that I hadn't known or worked on.
Speaker 1: But that breakup, he started dating a person living in
Speaker 1: my building, which was wild.
Speaker 2: Out of all the fucking people, out of.
Speaker 1: All that I live in like a small building, it
Speaker 1: was so.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I literally say that. I'm like, there
Speaker 2: are so many people in the world. I don't know,
Speaker 2: you couldn't have picked one of them.
Speaker 1: Why in my sixteen person unit did you pick her?
Speaker 1: It was like a little too coincidental, but whatever. So
Speaker 1: the point is I said to my therapist, like, she
Speaker 1: seems like I've seen her in the elevator. She actually
Speaker 1: seems like young and really nice, Like I hope it
Speaker 1: changes for her. And my therapist was like, don't count
Speaker 1: on that. I was like, what do you mean. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was me, maybe we brought out, you know, bad
Speaker 1: things in each other. And she was like, she just
Speaker 1: accepts whatever limitations he had. Her limitations match up with
Speaker 1: his limitations. It just works for her. But nothing has changed.
Speaker 2: I was like, I always say that. I always say, like,
Speaker 2: whenever I see somebody with like a younger person or
Speaker 2: a person less experienced, I'm like, it would take them.
Speaker 2: Like I always think about people who are with these
Speaker 2: like older stars, Right, there's a reason they go for
Speaker 2: these like twenty two year olds. One. They won't say,
Speaker 2: oh my god, you have a fucking drinking problem. It
Speaker 2: is nine in the morning, Where the fuck are you drinking? Like,
Speaker 2: why are you putting whiskey in your fucking coffee? Yeah,
Speaker 2: A nineteen year old three year old goes, he's so spontaneous,
Speaker 2: he's so fun.
Speaker 1: And doesn't have enough experience to know that that's not right.
Speaker 2: That's not right. Because if they did it when you said, like,
Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen year olds are selfish, if I met an
Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen year old. That wasn't I would be so concerned.
Speaker 2: There's a time in your life to be so selfish.
Speaker 2: But I feel like with a partner, there's a difference
Speaker 2: between being selfish and taking advantage or not suffering consequences.
Speaker 2: So being selfish, for example, you could have a boyfriend
Speaker 2: of a year in college, but I hope you go
Speaker 2: to that study abroad in Barcelona. That's selfish of you.
Speaker 2: You're not thinking of other people. You're thinking of yourself,
Speaker 2: and that's important. That's important, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I think there's a part of me that sees a
Speaker 2: little selfishness in other people, and I recognize it because
Speaker 2: of it within myself. I just I think as I
Speaker 2: get older, I'm starting to differentiate the kind of selfishness
Speaker 2: that I I'm looking for, and the kind of selfishness
Speaker 2: that I'm looking for is for your own personal development,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And your peace of mind?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. Like if I invite you
Speaker 2: to a party and you're like, no, I got to
Speaker 2: take care of myself. I have an early class tomorrow
Speaker 2: and I want to take care of me. Fine, be
Speaker 2: a stick in the mud. Whatever. I'll see you on Friday.
Speaker 2: But if it's something where it's like if you're a
Speaker 2: man and I buy you a dress shirt and then
Speaker 2: you go on a date wearing it behind my back
Speaker 2: with somebody like that is a selfishness that like I
Speaker 2: can't unteach you, and I've had many exes that I've
Speaker 2: taken back. I'm never somebody to not give somebody a
Speaker 2: second chance, you know, Like I think that idea of
Speaker 2: like now he's going to be the person that I've
Speaker 2: always wanted him to be for somebody else has like
Speaker 2: plagued me a lot. And it's funny because they may
Speaker 2: have sworn up and down that they are different, and
Speaker 2: I might see some real differences. Maybe this person doesn't
Speaker 2: party anymore. Maybe this person doesn't drink anymore. Maybe this
Speaker 2: person you know, has proven to me time and time
Speaker 2: again they deleted their dating apps, whatever the fuck it is,
Speaker 2: you know. But there are certain ways that like selfishness
Speaker 2: creeps up in ways that you could never erase, like
Speaker 2: coming home with food and not asking you what you wanted. Oh,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It looks like a bomb.
Speaker 2: It's abominable, Yeah it is, yeah, Or like I talked
Speaker 2: about it on TikTok, like ordering food for everybody, like
Speaker 2: for you and him, and then like them not cleaning
Speaker 2: up and being okay with your place being a mess,
Speaker 2: Like there are little things that I'm like, it's too
Speaker 2: deep rooted. Or I've had friends also tell me like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, but like he's going to be this person,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, he might be terrible,
Speaker 2: but he deserves to be with somebody. Let's say he
Speaker 2: does change. He deserves to be with somebody that'll see
Speaker 2: him with fresh eyes. And you don't respect him anymore.
Speaker 2: You mom him, but you don't respect him. And I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's worth the paranoia of it, because
Speaker 2: for the rest of your life you're going to be
Speaker 2: wondering who is he at dinner with? Did he go
Speaker 2: to dinner? Why didn't he text me good night? Who
Speaker 2: is he with? Like those things are not worth it.
Speaker 2: So he could change, but he ruined it, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Today's episode is sponsored by Cotton the Fabric of our Lives.
Speaker 1: I have a question for you. Have you ever looked
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Speaker 1: that surprised me. I think a lot about the food
Speaker 1: I eat, the products I put on my skin, the
Speaker 1: ingredients in my beauty products, even my cleaning products. You
Speaker 1: all know that about me. But I realized I had
Speaker 1: almost no idea what most of my clothes were actually
Speaker 1: made of. And then I learned that many synthetic fabrics
Speaker 1: are essentially plastic. I know, I had the same reaction
Speaker 1: as someone who basically lives out of a suitcase. I
Speaker 1: have a handful of things I wear over and over again.
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Speaker 1: the matching sweatsuit I wear to the airport in back.
Speaker 1: And when I started checking the labels, I notice something.
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Speaker 1: It's one of those tiny pieces of information that changes
Speaker 1: how you shop forever, not in a dramatic way, just
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Speaker 1: Start with a simple habit. Check the label for cotton
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Speaker 1: the fabricoourlives dot com. I want to ask you actually
Speaker 1: about you just said you mom, meet.
Speaker 2: Him, mommy, everybody.
Speaker 1: It's something that I've seen you talk about a lot
Speaker 1: you've said. I want to read the exact thing it
Speaker 1: says one of your deep posts on TikTok. You wrote,
Speaker 1: women are forced to face themselves, They're forced to parent
Speaker 1: their partners, and you feel like that's actually why a
Speaker 1: lot of your past partners have resented you. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to understand better what you mean.
Speaker 2: I think there is a moment in time where men
Speaker 2: think I want a woman just like my mom.
Speaker 1: I think that they almost all do subconsciously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even it's a hater. Even if a hater, it's
Speaker 2: just a case of familiarity. Like maybe how people say,
Speaker 2: like you find your father and everyone. I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's necessarily true, but there are traits about my
Speaker 2: dad that I definitely look for. I don't you would
Speaker 2: never have to babysit my dad, for example, at a party,
Speaker 2: like he you can leave him to do his own thing,
Speaker 2: and people come back and they're like, what, he's so funny,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, my dad's that kind
Speaker 2: of guy. So I do look for that in other people.
Speaker 2: But I feel like there will always be a sense
Speaker 2: of she'll take care of it. And I feel like
Speaker 2: when I start, especially at a young age, if you
Speaker 2: start dating really young, you find yourself kind of falling
Speaker 2: into that, saying like how much Look how much easier
Speaker 2: your life could be if I was with you, Like,
Speaker 2: look how comfortable you are. And what I didn't realize
Speaker 2: is that men didn't see that as like, oh, I
Speaker 2: have to take care of this. Men saw that as
Speaker 2: a starting point where it's like, oh I don't even
Speaker 2: have to try, and look how good she is to me. Like,
Speaker 2: men did not see that as something that they had to, like,
Speaker 2: something precious that they had to like water and nurture.
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's important for them absolutely.
Speaker 2: Who doesn't want to be excused, who doesn't want to
Speaker 2: be like viciously babied viciously. I remember one time this
Speaker 2: person said to me, oh my god, you're just like
Speaker 2: my fucking mom. And I said, who the fuck wants
Speaker 2: to fuck their son? Like, shut the fuck up? You
Speaker 2: know so? And it's also like I'm also a fucking kid.
Speaker 2: I'm the same age as you, or maybe like two
Speaker 2: years less. You don't think I want to be fucking
Speaker 2: babied beyond like taking me to dinner, Like I can
Speaker 2: take me to dinner. Right, I've shown time and time
Speaker 2: again how like comfortable I can make your life. You
Speaker 2: have shown me only the ways you've made my life harder. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know so when I say, like mommying somebody, I
Speaker 2: mean like, are you okay? What do you need? See?
Speaker 2: I remembered, oh I love that. See I've remembered oh,
Speaker 2: you can count on me. And for some reason, I
Speaker 2: don't know if dependability is also like a muscle. I
Speaker 2: like to say confidence is like a muscle. I don't
Speaker 2: know if dependability or being a reliability is a muscle,
Speaker 2: but I for sure.
Speaker 1: I think it is. It's a habit.
Speaker 2: It is a habit. That quote how you do one
Speaker 2: thing is how you do everything drives me fucking nuts
Speaker 2: because if I showed you my apartment right now, you
Speaker 2: would think I was squatting. I have so many packages
Speaker 2: that a delivery guy, my Uber eats driver, said, happy moving.
Speaker 2: I've been here for two years.
Speaker 1: That's I sort of feel like that quote haunts me
Speaker 1: as well, because you're a person of excellence. I strive
Speaker 1: for Yeah, we all. I strive for excellence too. My
Speaker 1: life is not excellent in every area. It's impossible, right,
Speaker 1: So I hate that quote too. Did you also have
Speaker 1: an eating disorder? Yeah, when I was younger. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: infectionism is a drug. If I could put control into.
Speaker 2: A pipe, yeah, I would book it to the filter. Okay,
Speaker 2: but that's something else that my therapist told me about
Speaker 2: people who have eds. Instead of nourishing ourselves, we nourish
Speaker 2: others because at least then we're busy, you know, And
Speaker 2: that really fucked me up.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: It's like I rather avoid, and also dating gives us
Speaker 2: an excuse to being control of our appearance, you know.
Speaker 2: So no, what do you mean, like getting dressed, getting
Speaker 2: ready to going to the gym looking cute, you know,
Speaker 2: like putting an extra effort or whatever. There's certain ways
Speaker 2: that people with eats like we cover things, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I used to tell people all the time, I
Speaker 2: was training for a marathon, and that's why you know
Speaker 2: I wasn't doing that, or I was doing too much
Speaker 2: of this or whatever. I used to tell people I
Speaker 2: enjoyed just walking to work, but I had, like, you know,
Speaker 2: my calorie counters and stuff. We all cover things up.
Speaker 2: So when people are like like taking care of my body,
Speaker 2: like working out too much, I'm like, well, I'm dating again.
Speaker 2: I don't want to gain the extra way, you know,
Speaker 2: Like for me, like dating was something that I could hide.
Speaker 2: I could hide behind my partner instead of talking about me.
Speaker 2: I could talk about how exciting dating was, you know,
Speaker 2: how I met somebody. Everything you don't like talking about
Speaker 2: you if I'm actively like avoiding nourishment or like taking
Speaker 2: care of my body, like if I'm not if I'm
Speaker 2: slipping into old habits, yeah, I'm talking to you about
Speaker 2: everything else or fascinating. My friends will know when I'm
Speaker 2: avoiding them, because people that you don't know, you could
Speaker 2: talk about whatever and they think this is just you. Right,
Speaker 2: people you sit down there like, bitch, what the fuck
Speaker 2: is happening? Like you, what's going on? They know you
Speaker 2: sit down You're like yeah, and they're like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: You know, and I'm like, I'm losing control. I'm losing control.
Speaker 2: So there's a part of me also where I think
Speaker 2: with dating it's hard because you tell people these things,
Speaker 2: like you share your hurt with people you know, and
Speaker 2: then they hurt you and you're like, I told you,
Speaker 2: like I told you, and so like for men, whatever,
Speaker 2: for your partner, if they told you like a trigger
Speaker 2: of theirs, you know, like let's say they got cheated
Speaker 2: on with their exes coworker me, I would make it
Speaker 2: an extra effort that they met all my coworkers, but
Speaker 2: they knew all the office gossip. I wanted them to
Speaker 2: feel as comfortable as possible. Right, for men, you could say,
Speaker 2: you know, like my ex was always on dating apps,
Speaker 2: and they're like, I'll go home and download Tinder. They're
Speaker 2: just so far removed from like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: investment means to men, or like to there's a lot
Speaker 2: of selfish women and a lot of selfish but non
Speaker 2: binary people too. It's just that the only people have
Speaker 2: truly broken my heart are just men.
Speaker 1: Right, you know, I also think potentially they're wired differently
Speaker 1: because it is a whole different level even good hearted people.
Speaker 1: I think men are just a little bit more selfish.
Speaker 1: They comme at it from a different angle to begin with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with you.
Speaker 2: It's a selfish angle. It's a selfish angle. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to share myself with somebody, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to share life with you. I want you
Speaker 2: to meet my family. I want you to share memes
Speaker 2: with my brother. I want you to, you know, read
Speaker 2: my birthday cards from my grandfather. You know. I want
Speaker 2: my aunt to make her famous charcouterie board for you.
Speaker 2: It's fantastic, you know. But men are just like you know,
Speaker 2: they want to make sure that they are still validated.
Speaker 2: They're obsessed with validation.
Speaker 1: But I think it's really like, I think we have
Speaker 1: really multi pronged wants and needs, and for them it
Speaker 1: feels like it's sex, food and ego.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then and then they wonder why we think
Speaker 2: about them so like prehistorically, and I'm like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: but also like, how would you it would It would
Speaker 2: hurt my heart to live my life knowing that you
Speaker 2: were this multi dimensional person and I just never did
Speaker 2: it well and I and you didn't find me either
Speaker 2: worthy or you know, you didn't share that with me.
Speaker 2: But then I go to sleep and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: think we always think about the things that we could
Speaker 2: have done. Like I had a boyfriend once that used
Speaker 2: to come home at like seven in the morning, and
Speaker 2: he used to come home so fucked up, and I
Speaker 2: would like scream and scream at him. It'd be a
Speaker 2: huge fight. And I look back and I'm like, why
Speaker 2: didn't I bolt the door? Why didn't I let that
Speaker 2: motherfucker sleep outside like a consequence because I thought the
Speaker 2: consequence was disappointing me. That didn't mean anything to him.
Speaker 2: And then I also tell myself, because that's not you.
Speaker 2: You would never let anybody sleep outside with nowhere to
Speaker 2: go in the winter. That's that's just not within.
Speaker 1: And is that something you like about yourself?
Speaker 2: I love that about me. That's why relationships. You're not
Speaker 2: going to change that about me.
Speaker 1: That's the key, right.
Speaker 2: You know. I would go on these dates after these
Speaker 2: like tremendous heartbreaks. I've had like three tremendous heartbreaks in
Speaker 2: my life, and you're so brave, you know. Like one
Speaker 2: of my relationships didn't work out. I'm like, I wonder who,
Speaker 2: like I look just like him, you know, And she's
Speaker 2: like and I was never brave enough to get back
Speaker 2: out there, really, and you just really pick yourself up
Speaker 2: and you go out and I'm like, I leave before
Speaker 2: they take that for me. I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people who are really bitter. I know a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But you can always get it back.
Speaker 2: You can always get it back.
Speaker 1: But it's expensive, yes it is. It's expensive emotionally and
Speaker 1: financially potentially, Babe.
Speaker 2: You can be like, I could date somebody for a year.
Speaker 2: Who's to say they won't date some But in my building,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that shit.
Speaker 1: Again, do you really have control over it?
Speaker 2: Exactly? But the only thing I have control of, the
Speaker 2: only thing that I have control of in my life
Speaker 2: is how I love people. You know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I have had heartbreaks in my life where I
Speaker 2: have walked around Central Park in a robe and slippers,
Speaker 2: open mouths crying. Yeah, I looked like SpongeBob's grandma.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's real heartbreak on the phone.
Speaker 2: My mom, and she says later, I would talk to
Speaker 2: her like every hour on the hour for days, And
Speaker 2: my mom later told me I didn't understand a word
Speaker 2: that you were saying. It was hysterical. I've had heartbreaks
Speaker 2: where my cousins have to fly in to ensure that
Speaker 2: I'm eating, you know what I mean. I've had heartbreaks
Speaker 2: where I leave the country for like months, you know,
Speaker 2: But I've always, even though it broke my fucking heart,
Speaker 2: I was always the one to say, even though they said,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll never love you this way. You know, technically,
Speaker 2: technically I'm always the one to leave. But it's not
Speaker 2: out of nowhere, you know, Like I'm not like this mysterious,
Speaker 2: like I'm not this person with that leaves like a
Speaker 2: letter on the bed saying like you know, I'll see
Speaker 2: you in a dream or something. No, you know, I
Speaker 2: leave right before. I feel like you're about to imprint
Speaker 2: on me, like you're about to mold me into somebody fearful.
Speaker 2: And I can't do that because if you take that
Speaker 2: for me, I can't be happy for my friends who
Speaker 2: fall in love. I can't be happy for my siblings.
Speaker 2: You know what nice it is to see your siblings
Speaker 2: in love like that, To see somebody love your siblings,
Speaker 2: or see them not the way that you see them,
Speaker 2: but cherish them, or feel like they're irreplaceable the way
Speaker 2: that you feel. That's such a gift. I say it
Speaker 2: to my siblings all the time. I love seeing you
Speaker 2: guys in love. I see. However, to my brother, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I see, however, you got her a glass of water.
Speaker 2: Whenever she asks that kind of hurt a little bit.
Speaker 2: I've been asking you for thirty two years. But that's okay,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But like, there's a point
Speaker 2: about loving love because people I know and we go
Speaker 2: through it when we're going through breakups too, where you
Speaker 2: see people in love and you're like, he's cheating on her.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be like that, No, it's going
Speaker 2: to end. Or like you see an old guy and
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm getting flowers, you know, and like it's
Speaker 2: probably for his mistress. I've had friends like that and
Speaker 2: I'm like, you need to talk to somebody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess you bring up two things. One
Speaker 1: is it sounds like you refuse to betray yourself, which
Speaker 1: I think is really valuable. But two, you refuse to
Speaker 1: let someone bend your spirit.
Speaker 2: I just feel like I fox so hard for it.
Speaker 2: The reason I am the way that I am is
Speaker 2: because at one point I was not. You know, there
Speaker 2: are ways every day that we betray ourselves. There are
Speaker 2: little ways every day that we don't act to our
Speaker 2: best interest, you know what I mean. But I will say,
Speaker 2: maybe it's because I'm a cancer, maybe it's because I'm Latin,
Speaker 2: maybe it's because I'm a woman. But I do believe
Speaker 2: in the idea of a tribe, of a of a community. Rain. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I always tell people, if the people who love you
Speaker 2: the most and have nothing to gain from your unhappiness
Speaker 2: are telling you that you can do better, I think
Speaker 2: you should listen. They have nothing to gain, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. So when it comes to my mom
Speaker 2: or like my exes, when I'm ready to break up
Speaker 2: with somebody, I tell them everything. I sit down and
Speaker 2: I'm like, you have to help me leave this man.
Speaker 2: You have to help me whoever it is.
Speaker 1: Oh, you tell your people.
Speaker 2: I tell my people because you can't.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so hard because there's no unwinding that.
Speaker 2: There's no unwinding that. So it gets to the point
Speaker 2: then where if I see them again, and of course
Speaker 2: I have, I have to sit with that feeling of
Speaker 2: I betrayed them. I betrayed the people who were on
Speaker 2: the phone with me when they could understand me.
Speaker 1: Oh, my god, my head's exploding down.
Speaker 2: I betrayed them. So because it's easy to betray ourselves,
Speaker 2: we can forgive ourselves, you know what I mean, over
Speaker 2: and over again. But when your mom calls and she
Speaker 2: was like, how is your weekend? I miss you, and
Speaker 2: you know that, You're like, this woman has listened to me.
Speaker 2: She was there for me. She did everything. I can't
Speaker 2: tell her or and my mom does this thing too.
Speaker 2: It's a little mafio so but it really works where
Speaker 2: she'll sit me down. She's done it in a couple
Speaker 2: different ways, but the most recent way was I want
Speaker 2: you to know it could be ten years down the line,
Speaker 2: you could get back with this man. You could have
Speaker 2: children with this man. I will never see those grandchildren.
Speaker 2: I will never speak to you again. I cannot bear
Speaker 2: to see you with somebody who doesn't know what you do.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, bitch, it is day two of the breakup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not day one hundred and two, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's also important for me too that she comes
Speaker 2: here and she sees me, because she reminds me. She's like,
Speaker 2: do you know what you were like?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we don't see ourselves when we're in that state.
Speaker 2: I look at pictures of myself and I'm like, you
Speaker 2: look like a white walker.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: I know it always shows up physically always.
Speaker 1: You said you've had three heartbreaks. I think there's different
Speaker 1: kinds of heartbreak. You can break your own heart, there's
Speaker 1: family heartbreak, there's romantic heartbreak. When I say heartbreak, what
Speaker 1: comes up for you immediately?
Speaker 2: I think heartbreak. I think being in love is feeling
Speaker 2: like a kid again, and being a kid again feels vulnerable.
Speaker 2: So whenever I think of heartbreak, I think of being
Speaker 2: a teenager, because that's really what love feels like, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I hate the reason I love.
Speaker 2: I love astrology, I love all of the occult. I
Speaker 2: love all of it, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 2: love prayer. I love when people are like, oh, I
Speaker 2: don't believe in God or whatever. I'm like, I don't care.
Speaker 2: My sister's atheist. I rock with that, bitch. I think
Speaker 2: we're going to go to the same place. But it
Speaker 2: would just be lonely for me, you know. And I
Speaker 2: love the idea of life having magic to it, little things,
Speaker 2: little things like being in the mood for ice cream
Speaker 2: and then you are walking and you see an ice
Speaker 2: cream shop, you're like, oh my god, you know, like
Speaker 2: things like that. I like the magic in life and
Speaker 2: when you're in love, life does feel magical.
Speaker 1: What a beautiful way of describing it.
Speaker 2: It feels like a gift, it really does. You talk
Speaker 2: to people about heartbreak and love and the same thing. No,
Speaker 2: this is different. Yeah you know what I.
Speaker 1: Mean, Like you feel like it's so it's someone could
Speaker 1: possibly understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unique. It's like you like, like, I understand
Speaker 2: you've ben heartbroken. Like I look at my mom and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you don't understand. She's like I had
Speaker 2: three children as married and I was like, yeah, that's cute,
Speaker 2: but you don't. That's sweet.
Speaker 1: You don't understand what I'm going through.
Speaker 2: You don't understand. So there's that thing where it's like
Speaker 2: the people that you are during those like three four
Speaker 2: hundred heartbreaks or whatever, they're different people. And I told
Speaker 2: my ex, like, I miss her, I miss the that
Speaker 2: I was. I like who I am? But that girl,
Speaker 2: I'm never going to know her again because you put
Speaker 2: me through things that I probably didn't have to learn.
Speaker 1: You never heard anybody talk about that.
Speaker 2: She was so protective of me. She waited to date you. Know,
Speaker 2: like she found the guy that she really liked. She
Speaker 2: waited to sleep with him, like she was really really confident.
Speaker 2: She knew that she was smart and that she was funny,
Speaker 2: and you took her from me, you know, you took
Speaker 2: her from me. So now i have to do that
Speaker 2: all over again.
Speaker 1: But I'm never going to be that person again ever.
Speaker 2: I'll never be that little twenty seven year old girl
Speaker 2: so excited to meet up with you because because I
Speaker 2: felt something and I thought, okay, like he's really nice,
Speaker 2: he taught, he calls his mom all the time. Like
Speaker 2: that person that was so that person was trying to
Speaker 2: protect me and I let her down.
Speaker 1: I'm like so emotional hearing you say that. There's like,
Speaker 1: I think so much grief wrapped around that.
Speaker 2: It is grief, it's morning. But people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: everybody more a relationship. I'm like, no, I'm mourning.
Speaker 1: The hope I had, the hope and the version of yourself.
Speaker 2: I think I wanted magic so bad that I or
Speaker 2: I was so used to everybody having a little bit
Speaker 2: of magic that I may have made it up for
Speaker 2: you a little bit where you were lacking, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, And that and I love that she
Speaker 2: did that for like, I'll look at somebody like, I
Speaker 2: love that she did that for you. But another thing
Speaker 2: that you took from me when you cheat on somebody
Speaker 2: or when you betray somebody is I've never met a
Speaker 2: woman that I didn't want to be fucking friends with.
Speaker 2: I meet a woman and I'm just like, this could
Speaker 2: be my friend. And now for the next few months,
Speaker 2: I'm going to meet new people and wonder if they're
Speaker 2: your fucking type. You turned you, you turned women you
Speaker 2: You made me turn my back a little bit for women.
Speaker 1: So I can heal when I can even like question
Speaker 1: my friends, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Were you attracted to my friends to do you f
Speaker 2: with my friend? And I feel like there are some
Speaker 2: friends that there are some partners that definitely did, and
Speaker 2: some partners that definitely did not. And my friends would
Speaker 2: never but they, you know, my friends say something, They're like,
Speaker 2: we trusted him with you, and that really hurt me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I trusted him with me too. The way that
Speaker 2: they treat their friends, the way that they treat their family,
Speaker 2: the way that they talk about their friends, the way
Speaker 2: they talk about their exes. When you're young, you just
Speaker 2: think it's so nuanced and it's not he's not nuanced.
Speaker 2: It is those people are just normal, everyday people, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like the way that this guy,
Speaker 2: like one of my partners, would talk about all his friends'
Speaker 2: success almost like they didn't deserve it. I'll never forget
Speaker 2: that because one day he woke up. We were sleeping together,
Speaker 2: and he woke up and he said, I had a nightmare.
Speaker 2: And I was like, what was your nightmare? And he
Speaker 2: was like, I had a nightmare that you were on
Speaker 2: SNL and I was like, that's a weird thing. And
Speaker 2: then when I got signed to UTA and there was
Speaker 2: an announcement on Variety, he messaged it to me on
Speaker 2: what's up and we haven't spoken in years. Yeah, look
Speaker 2: at where you are now. Remember how poor you were?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I was never special. I was
Speaker 2: just not successful and that made me perfect for you. You
Speaker 2: were always the one that was more successful than me.
Speaker 2: At that point, Oh, I went off. I texted my
Speaker 2: mom that she goes say this, I'm like, Mom, I
Speaker 2: can't say that.
Speaker 1: Oh, So you were never poor, you were baby broke exactly.
Speaker 2: I was beginning. I was beginning, you know, And now
Speaker 2: I realized, oh my god, I wasn't special. I was
Speaker 2: in a safe place. I was just, oh my god, comfortable.
Speaker 2: I was easy, and I was younger and I just
Speaker 2: moved to New York and he had been here his
Speaker 2: whole life, so like he could show me things he loved.
Speaker 2: I always say it to girls when they're going on dates.
Speaker 2: Just let him teach you something. Ask him about his interests,
Speaker 2: and then ask one thing about it and let him talk,
Speaker 2: and he'll be obsessed with you and then love to
Speaker 2: teach you things.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, and to show you new stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh, they love it, they really do.
Speaker 1: Like, Oh, this restaurant is incredible. I've never been here.
Speaker 2: Have you heard of this vegetable? It's called eggplan? No? Like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, Like it's so. But if you were
Speaker 2: to do something better, I feel it's weird because this one,
Speaker 2: this one person I dated for a little bit, I
Speaker 2: would show him things, and then I went through his
Speaker 2: phone and he would send girls the songs I would
Speaker 2: send him and the memes I would send them, And
Speaker 2: I was like, I was like, this guy doesn't even
Speaker 2: know she's dating me.
Speaker 1: And it's because he had no originality. He took on
Speaker 1: your personality.
Speaker 2: Nothing I've also dated people who, oh were intimidated by
Speaker 2: me and I didn't realize and they thought the only
Speaker 2: way that they could hold my attention was fighting with me.
Speaker 2: So I would sit down and be like, I'm a
Speaker 2: terrible per like I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
Speaker 2: And then it took like my friend to sit me
Speaker 2: down and be like, the only time he has your
Speaker 2: full attention you're so busy is when you guys are
Speaker 2: fighting and he's ringing it in other than talking about it.
Speaker 2: And I would go through conversations I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this guy is a fucking vampire, you know, And no
Speaker 2: wonder I don't want to talk to him all the
Speaker 2: time because I felt bad. I was like, I want
Speaker 2: to resolve with him, but I just don't want to
Speaker 2: talk to him. She's like, he's programmed you that every
Speaker 2: time you talk to him is going to be unhappy
Speaker 2: about something, and that way you dedicate your whole life,
Speaker 2: your whole day to making him feel better and apologizing.
Speaker 2: Heartbreak is normal and heartbreak is part of life. I
Speaker 2: get it, but I think in the future, your standards change.
Speaker 2: Every fucking heartbreak, your standards change. I always say standards
Speaker 2: are your neighborhood, and boundaries are your fencing. Standards are
Speaker 2: where you live, and the fencing to your house are
Speaker 2: your boundaries. So you know what I mean. Like a
Speaker 2: standard for me is I'm monogamous. That's a standard for me.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in a poly thing, and
Speaker 2: everybody who wants that should be with somebody that wants
Speaker 2: the same thing. And I don't want to get in
Speaker 2: the way of you finding that, you know, But.
Speaker 1: Also, don't lie to me and tell me you want
Speaker 1: to be monogamous.
Speaker 2: Don't to me and tell me you just don't want
Speaker 2: me to see anybody. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's usually what it is. And oh my god. You
Speaker 2: know how many times I've met a guy that's like,
Speaker 2: I'm in an open relationship and she isn't.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, yeah, say that to you. It happened
Speaker 1: to me a bunch, But not like they don't say
Speaker 1: it on Riyah.
Speaker 2: I'm like, all of you motherfuckers are married, a lot
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: There's all thing with girlfriends.
Speaker 2: All of them.
Speaker 1: My ex was on Riah, Like the whole time we
Speaker 1: were in a relationship, I had no idea.
Speaker 2: It was for friends and networking no, I didn't even
Speaker 2: know like he was on it. People are people, swear people.
Speaker 2: That's what my mom has a saying to light in
Speaker 2: my face is to call me an idiot. And I like,
Speaker 2: i'd be like, why are you on this app? And
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, I'm looking for casting. For the you're
Speaker 2: looking for casting. But it's part of the casting process
Speaker 2: showing them your dick. Oh and in an apartment you
Speaker 2: don't pay rent for, it's like my apartment, Like, I
Speaker 2: get it. The lighting's great, but not No.
Speaker 1: Well I read that you said hurt people hurt people,
Speaker 1: which is a common phrase, but you said that sometimes
Speaker 1: the only way people know they exist is if they
Speaker 1: hurt people.
Speaker 2: There's a moment where people realize that they're not going
Speaker 2: to be that they're not special, you know, And I
Speaker 2: think it happens with me. Men. There's a moment where
Speaker 2: a man realizes he's not going to be a rock star,
Speaker 2: he's not going to be the Wolf of Wall Street,
Speaker 2: he's not going to be this pro athlete. He's just
Speaker 2: a person. And I feel like women, for us, it's different.
Speaker 2: It's like the the friends we have, where we live,
Speaker 2: the clothes we wear, like those things are more statusy
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Oh than men. Men. It's
Speaker 2: like an ego thing, like the status for men is different.
Speaker 2: It's different, and there is a moment where men realize,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be I'm not special, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just a regular guy with a regular job, with
Speaker 2: a regular a part. And I think that's fine, but
Speaker 2: for them it's not. And I think there are people
Speaker 2: in the world, including women. I know a lot of
Speaker 2: women who go this route too, for different reasons. But
Speaker 2: they realize that if they are the main character in
Speaker 2: their movie and no one's gonna watch it, they rather
Speaker 2: be the villain, or they rather be the victim. They
Speaker 2: rather be pitied, and they rather be hated than not
Speaker 2: be seen at all. And those people are the people
Speaker 2: where we confuse and we're like, oh my god, he's
Speaker 2: mean to everybody but me, or like I'm the only
Speaker 2: one that understands her. I'm the only one that's there
Speaker 2: for her. They designed it that way. You're now the
Speaker 2: supporting character in their movie that they've been writing for years,
Speaker 2: like the person that you know runs away, traveling everywhere alone,
Speaker 2: post about like being alone and whatever. They want it
Speaker 2: that way. They knew that here, or they were just
Speaker 2: a regular person, but they had to create this idea of.
Speaker 1: Them, so they carved this out.
Speaker 2: They're a voyager, you know what I mean, they're brave.
Speaker 2: Theyre or a girl who just like she just can't
Speaker 2: get it together and like poor. Have you ever met
Speaker 2: somebody that can't stop dating shitty people? If they didn't
Speaker 2: date hitty people, who.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't they the job? What's your story? What do they
Speaker 1: talk about at dinner?
Speaker 2: How somebody fucked them over?
Speaker 1: Oh, I've never thought about this. This is interesting.
Speaker 2: I think there's courage in being normal. There's courage in normalcy.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of courage in normalcy and consistency.
Speaker 2: The courage to be who you are. I think people
Speaker 2: think like, oh, the courage to be a star, to
Speaker 2: be who you are, they mean like the courage to
Speaker 2: draw attention to myself. What if you're not What if
Speaker 2: you're not that person? Are you brave enough to face
Speaker 2: that and be okay with that? What if you're not
Speaker 2: that person?
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean and what if that's actually weak?
Speaker 2: I think there's this a Real Housewives quote Lisa where
Speaker 2: she says quarters in a money box make a lot
Speaker 2: of noise. But dollars are quiet, and I think that
Speaker 2: way about confidence sometimes, and everybody has confidence differently, right, right.
Speaker 1: So I saw on Twitter in September of twenty one
Speaker 1: you said you went through a pretty public breakup, and
Speaker 1: you said, I'm trying so hard to be graceful about this.
Speaker 1: This is the worst heartbreak of my life. Please stop
Speaker 1: dming me and all this other stuff. I first of all,
Speaker 1: kudos to you. I don't know how you went through
Speaker 1: a public breakup. I have like so much love for you.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to go through it at all, let
Speaker 1: alone publicly thank you. How did the heartbreak leave you?
Speaker 1: Because I think it manifests differently depending on what your
Speaker 1: childhood wounds are. I think it can leave you feeling unlovable.
Speaker 1: It can leave you feeling insecure, It can leave you
Speaker 1: feeling empowered. Like there's all these different ways heartbreak can
Speaker 1: leave you.
Speaker 2: There is something that a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2: The reason A big reason that I was quiet about
Speaker 2: it was because it was there was a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff that was pretty private. It wasn't my story to
Speaker 2: tell the reason why we had really not worked for
Speaker 2: so long, and it was rooted in like addiction and
Speaker 2: like substance abuse. I thought it would be tacky to
Speaker 2: like talk about that when it affects like someone's whole
Speaker 2: family and like all this stuff and whatever. And but
Speaker 2: second of all, there was a point in my relationship
Speaker 2: where it got very cloud chasy. So I didn't want
Speaker 2: to I didn't want to drive any traffic. I wasn't
Speaker 2: gonna do it. So there was a there was a
Speaker 2: point where I was like, this person loves being my partner,
Speaker 2: but I don't think they love me necessarily. They love
Speaker 2: the way that I love them. They love the way
Speaker 2: that I show them off. They love that people who
Speaker 2: support me and interact with me and follow me view us,
Speaker 2: but I don't. But we would be in a room
Speaker 2: together and he wouldn't speak to me. He'd be like
Speaker 2: on his phone the whole time, going through his dms,
Speaker 2: going through like you know, his photos, seeing what he
Speaker 2: could post a lot of selfies. And so when we
Speaker 2: broke up, I was like, I'm not driving any traffic too,
Speaker 2: I'm not telling anybody anything. I'm going to be really
Speaker 2: really quiet about it. I'm not gonna I'm not going
Speaker 2: to do you any favors. I'm not going to give
Speaker 2: you a platform, because the last thing I'm going to
Speaker 2: do is give a man a platform where he can
Speaker 2: talk about me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does it feel like to feel like I
Speaker 1: actually don't think I've I did feel that once where
Speaker 1: I dated somebody and I didn't feel like they actually
Speaker 1: loved me after Because you guys were together for a
Speaker 1: good amount of time.
Speaker 2: We were we were and some of it was good
Speaker 2: and some of it was nightmare on Elm Street, but
Speaker 2: it was like it was just a lot of There
Speaker 2: was a lot of stuff that I was unprepared for.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff I was unprepared for. There
Speaker 2: was a lot of stuff I didn't have experience with.
Speaker 2: And I guess when somebody says, oh, I'm only like
Speaker 2: this when I'm fucked up, and then you're like, but
Speaker 2: you're fucked up all the time, So I think this
Speaker 2: might be you. And I think that they liked that
Speaker 2: I I don't have anything like that in my family,
Speaker 2: So they knew that I was. They knew I was
Speaker 2: going to if I had now if that happened to me,
Speaker 2: I would say either get help or leave. But at
Speaker 2: that point I had to have no experience in that,
Speaker 2: so I was like, come in you know, let's talk
Speaker 2: about it, what's going on whatever.
Speaker 1: I was just more empathetic, even hard to identify sometimes.
Speaker 2: No, there's a point where I was like, ah, I'm fucked.
Speaker 2: Yeah really, yeah, there was no And I think in
Speaker 2: the beginnings of things, like you're just getting sucked up
Speaker 2: all the time, you're going to dinner, you're having a
Speaker 2: bottle of wine, you're doing this, you're doing that, you're
Speaker 2: going out all the time Friday night. But I remember
Speaker 2: just it was like getting in the way of someone
Speaker 2: and their vibe was like being called by like a tiger,
Speaker 2: Like there was an anger there, like there was like
Speaker 2: a like there's a switch that happened, like if you
Speaker 2: were to deny them, or if you were to restrict
Speaker 2: them in any way, or even the word sobriety gets
Speaker 2: popped up. It was like it was like a tiger.
Speaker 2: I think that relationship taught me, taught me a lot
Speaker 2: about how much I'm willing to take. And I'm really
Speaker 2: proud of myself that I had the patience to love
Speaker 2: someone like that. And I'm I'm happy to have seen
Speaker 2: my bandwidth, but I don't I don't ever want to
Speaker 2: be stretched that far ever again. And publicly. You know,
Speaker 2: it was hard because there were people who were supporting me,
Speaker 2: and then I would go through his phone and they'd
Speaker 2: be like, hit me up when you and Teffie breakup,
Speaker 2: So I don't think I'm ever yeah, And I went
Speaker 2: on my page and I DM them and I was like,
Speaker 2: I know what you're sending this person. You're disgusting, You're
Speaker 2: like vile, and I blocked them. But I think that
Speaker 2: was one thing too, where it's like the support, the
Speaker 2: support that I would get if I talked about it,
Speaker 2: I could go I could go viral for that. I
Speaker 2: could talk about, you know, a bunch of different topics
Speaker 2: within that breakup. I could talk about, you know, dealing
Speaker 2: with somebody's angry, dealing with somebody who's like has substance abuse,
Speaker 2: or dealing with heartbreak in general, dealing with like somebody
Speaker 2: cheating on you, like whatever. There's a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: I could have talked about, but the support would be
Speaker 2: so cheap, the support would be so cheap, it just
Speaker 2: wouldn't be. It just that's not what I want to
Speaker 2: be supported for. I'm not like this weak person. I
Speaker 2: know what I'm doing. I can I can handle it.
Speaker 2: And there are things that I learned, that relationship that
Speaker 2: I can tell you about without having to tell you
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: You know, I actually think this is tangential. But I
Speaker 1: often think about like the longevity and health of influencers,
Speaker 1: and that distinction you made, is it? Because it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful when you like, the whole point of a great
Speaker 1: speech is somebody teaches you something without you having to
Speaker 1: learn the lesson yourself. Like that is the mark of
Speaker 1: a great book, a great speech, a great something, like
Speaker 1: a great podcast. But if you're processing it while we're
Speaker 1: learning with you, there's no lesson there.
Speaker 2: No, it's just it's performative.
Speaker 1: Do you think that women experience heartbreak differently than men?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I literally when I was going through my last breakup,
Speaker 2: I said, I have to say goodbye to these children
Speaker 2: I've imagined in my mind. I have to say bye
Speaker 2: to them, you know, And for a woman, there is
Speaker 2: this timer. Now we have like all these advancements whatever,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to freeze my eggs. I don't
Speaker 2: want to you know, like, and it sounds fantastic and
Speaker 2: maybe you know, I think that women can have babies later.
Speaker 2: But when we broke up, I was like, I'm probably
Speaker 2: not going to have kids, So I'm like thirty seven
Speaker 2: now maybe if I do, And there's that clock. Men
Speaker 2: can be seventy something. But you're saying goodbye to like
Speaker 2: an era in your life that only fits like a
Speaker 2: certain thing if you want children. That's how I know
Speaker 2: I'm in love too, Like right now, if children happen
Speaker 2: for me, that's amazing, what a blessing. And if they don't,
Speaker 2: that's okay, you know what I mean, Like, I don't
Speaker 2: think it would be detrimental to me. When I'm in love.
Speaker 2: I want to give somebody a baby really bad, you know.
Speaker 2: So there was that point where I looked at him
Speaker 2: and I was like, it's hard of like you wanted
Speaker 2: a family so bad, and you want a family for
Speaker 2: the first time ever, like a functional family, and my
Speaker 2: family's very functional and like very normal and boring in
Speaker 2: the best way. So I was like, I gave you
Speaker 2: something that you were looking for, and you used it
Speaker 2: against me, you know what I mean, Like you took
Speaker 2: the norm we'll see and the foundation that you were
Speaker 2: looking in someone for and you jumped on it. You
Speaker 2: wanted to see if it could crack. And I told you,
Speaker 2: and I'd say to all my partners, I will leave.
Speaker 2: You think I won't, and I know there's going to
Speaker 2: be a point where you think, oh, she can handle anything.
Speaker 2: I will leave. I will go, and then they never
Speaker 2: believe me when I'm like, no, it's done. You know.
Speaker 1: So there's I think that's actually a gender difference. I
Speaker 1: think women will like they'll endure a lot, but once
Speaker 1: they're gone, they're gone.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a part of us too where, even if
Speaker 2: we have children or not, the idea of having to
Speaker 2: protect a child from someone doesn't mean to me anymore.
Speaker 2: That's interesting, you know, Like it's that like instinctual thing
Speaker 2: for me. Also, I have to be with someone i'm
Speaker 2: proud of. If I'm no longer proud of you, I
Speaker 2: can't do it. And it's not an admiration thing. You
Speaker 2: could be a fucking carpenter, I don't fucking care. You
Speaker 2: could be a cashier at Target. I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: But it's something about character, about doing the right thing.
Speaker 2: My mom says kind people are so kind even when
Speaker 2: it's hard, you know, Like that's something that I really
Speaker 2: really admire in people, because it's so easy for me
Speaker 2: to be nice to you. But if you looked at
Speaker 2: me and you were like, well, everybody thinks you're really stupid.
Speaker 2: I can look at you like i'd be so, and
Speaker 2: but I would need need to like dig deep and
Speaker 2: be like, I'm really sorry you feel that way, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like that was something that's something
Speaker 2: I admire in people.
Speaker 1: My friend is a divorce attorney.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she got married and her husband they were at
Speaker 1: the altar and her husband, like previously, had asked her
Speaker 1: she put this in her vows. Her husband asked her, like,
Speaker 1: you see all these people for years getting divorced or
Speaker 1: in the thick of it with them.
Speaker 2: What have you garnered?
Speaker 1: What have you learned? Like, well, what advice can you
Speaker 1: give us as we move towards marriage? And she said
Speaker 1: the one thing that she said to him was you
Speaker 1: need to marry somebody who not only does the right
Speaker 1: thing for you, but does the right thing for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I was deeven heartbreak, I would find myself googling
Speaker 1: like how to feel better? And I knew I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to find anything, but I just like I was
Speaker 1: doing all the things. I trained for a triathlon, I
Speaker 1: did therapy, Like I was being so proactive about the heartbreak.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to sit in it. No, And I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if you have found anything that you can share
Speaker 1: that you think actually helps you.
Speaker 2: Got to sit in the ship. I've been avoiding it.
Speaker 2: I avoided all the time. I dove into work, and
Speaker 2: my mom said, everywhere you go, you will follow.
Speaker 1: Your mom sounds so wise.
Speaker 2: She is so annoying. Enough, stop stop it.
Speaker 1: With that being right, Teffie's mom, I mean, like, you know.
Speaker 2: There was a there was this movie with j Lo
Speaker 2: and Robert Redford on Netflix, and my mom came to
Speaker 2: visit me. I forget I think I was moving and
Speaker 2: she kept She came and helped me move, and we were
Speaker 2: in bed together and I had to leave for an
Speaker 2: appointment and she was like, I'm going to keep watching
Speaker 2: the movie. And I was like, okay, rude. And she's
Speaker 2: watching the movie and she text me and she's like,
Speaker 2: call me after your meeting, and I said okay, and
Speaker 2: I called her. I'm like, hey, I'm on my way back.
Speaker 2: She's like, you know, I finished the movie. She's like,
Speaker 2: you know j Lo in this movie she was in
Speaker 2: an abusive relationship. And my mom was like, you know,
Speaker 2: Robert Redford asked j Lo why she stayed with a
Speaker 2: man that hit her, and she said, you know, I
Speaker 2: know that he was bad, but I didn't think I
Speaker 2: could do better. And I was quiet, and she's like,
Speaker 2: did you hear me? She stayed with somebody that she
Speaker 2: knew she was better than, but she didn't think that
Speaker 2: she could do better. And I was like, I heard you, mother.
Speaker 2: I'm like on sixth Avenue, like I cannot cry right now.
Speaker 2: But she was like, we watch her and we're like,
Speaker 2: she is so kind, she's so generous, she loves her daughter,
Speaker 2: she deserves the world, but it doesn't matter because she
Speaker 2: didn't think that she could do better than man who
Speaker 2: beat the fuck out of her. And I think about
Speaker 2: that all the time.
Speaker 1: When you think about it, because I think that that
Speaker 1: idea does not discriminate between women with confidence or without.
Speaker 1: It's not this, it's not the lack of confidence that
Speaker 1: spurs that. Like there's women I've interviewed offline, like they're powerhouses,
Speaker 1: and they tell me about these like horrible relationships he's
Speaker 1: been in where men steal money from them, like things
Speaker 1: you would never think of. What gets us there?
Speaker 2: I mean, love is hopeful. You always love the person
Speaker 2: that you feel like they're loading to be, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. The person that you fell in love
Speaker 2: with is rarely the person that you end up with.
Speaker 2: It's as hopefully love grows together as you guys discover
Speaker 2: each other, but it's rare, especially when you're with insecure
Speaker 2: men you know, or an insecure partner.
Speaker 1: I think heartbreaks like a really important part of love.
Speaker 2: So I have a few temporary that's the thing that
Speaker 2: fucks you up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're in it, you don't feel like it.
Speaker 2: Is and it's very temporary.
Speaker 1: So I have a few rapid fire questions for you.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: Okay, a movie you put on when you're sad the holiday.
Speaker 1: The worst betrayal is the worst betrayal is a mission.
Speaker 1: Omission is a sneaky form of a lie.
Speaker 2: I think I hate a person that lives on technicalities. Yes,
Speaker 2: I technically was in disrespectful. I technically didn't lie. I
Speaker 2: was like, well, you're technically a coward.
Speaker 1: So a celebrity couple that you like that you're rooting.
Speaker 2: For, Goldie Haun and Kurt Russell love.
Speaker 1: That brand, romantic gesture, intimate, romantic moment.
Speaker 2: I'm a Leo Moon. I need both me too.
Speaker 1: When I read that, I was like, yeah, saying both
Speaker 1: your favorite date spot in New York.
Speaker 2: My favorite dates spot in a central park. I'm pretty
Speaker 2: pretty uh. I love an outdoorsy picnic moment. But we
Speaker 2: have to be near the bathrooms. The bathrooms have to
Speaker 2: be like an eye distance. And please don't make me
Speaker 2: do that. I have a very weak bladder. We can't.
Speaker 2: I can't piss myself in the bushes.
Speaker 1: Second, especially if we're drinking wine. Like, please, what's something
Speaker 1: that you see in yourself that you haven't shown the
Speaker 1: world yet?
Speaker 2: I think maybe how mean I can be? I can
Speaker 2: show us well I'm People are like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm a big sister. I can get creative,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But I can definitely be vengeful.
Speaker 2: I can be vengeful. It's not something I'm proud of,
Speaker 2: but it is something where like I'm not gonna let
Speaker 2: you walk around. I'm always gonna get my lick back,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like that's what I mean
Speaker 2: by that.
Speaker 1: I also feel like that's Miami of you. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean it in the best way. A quality that
Speaker 1: you always look for in a.
Speaker 2: Friend inclusion, like if we're with other people and there's
Speaker 2: an inside joke and you turned me like it's funny
Speaker 2: because I like that. I like that right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a book that changed your life, something you think
Speaker 1: everyone should read.
Speaker 2: Fantastic, mister Fox. It's my first chapter book. I have
Speaker 2: like thirteen different versions of it. I love that book
Speaker 2: so much. It was my first first like chapter book.
Speaker 2: I was like seven years old, and I think I've
Speaker 2: read it like a million times. I just love that character.
Speaker 2: I love us. I love solution based thinking. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean. I agree.
Speaker 1: Have you ever thought about becoming a therapist? Like does
Speaker 1: it like every day of my life?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It in your mind. I just be able to
Speaker 2: not get involved, and I think that's where that stops.
Speaker 2: I would love to be like a teacher, like a
Speaker 2: professor of something, Like I'd love to like teach something
Speaker 2: and that way I can get a little bit more involved.
Speaker 2: But like a therapist can't, like you know, like you
Speaker 2: can't hug your clients like unless but like I would
Speaker 2: be like to Bozom.
Speaker 1: Come here. Yeah, okay, card game fifty two questions. So
Speaker 1: because we're virtual, just tell me when to stop stop.
Speaker 1: What expert do you want lessons from?
Speaker 2: What expert do I want lessons from? M There are
Speaker 2: a couple people that I have in my mind. One
Speaker 2: is Rita Moreno, who's like, you.
Speaker 1: Want to learn how to be an egot.
Speaker 2: I just feel like she was around in Hollywood where
Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot happened, and there's a Latin point
Speaker 2: of view that I really look for, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. And Michelle Levon Robinson Obama, mm hmmm. I
Speaker 2: love her a lot, and I would love to talk
Speaker 2: to Samahayek for a while. I feel like she's just
Speaker 2: someone that tells you like it is, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, and great enough to do.
Speaker 1: It whatever comes to your mind. First, the smartest decision
Speaker 1: you've ever.
Speaker 2: Made, The smartest decision I've ever made was to go
Speaker 2: to that audition. The reason I'm on TikTok is because
Speaker 2: I went to this audition and for YouTube. This company
Speaker 2: was like starting their own like channels. They were looking
Speaker 2: for talent, and I was a receptionist. I was like
Speaker 2: twenty eight and I wasn't an actress. I'd never done anything,
Speaker 2: and everybody that was going were like food critics and
Speaker 2: bloggers and podcasters and I was just like a receptionist
Speaker 2: and I went and out of like one hundred people,
Speaker 2: I'm the only one that got the job. So I
Speaker 2: think that's the smartest thing I ever did. Was like,
Speaker 2: I think you could do that. Or people love to
Speaker 2: make things so complicated, like the training of it, the
Speaker 2: broadcast journalism of it, like the speech, how you talk
Speaker 2: or whatever. But there's an it for people that people
Speaker 2: look for, and I think it's like Zendea has it.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I have that, but I think
Speaker 2: I know how to make people feel comfortable and I
Speaker 2: knew that I could do it. I knew that I
Speaker 2: could do it, and I just wasn't going to let
Speaker 2: people technicality me my way out of thinking that way.
Speaker 2: So I think that's the smartest thing I ever did.
Speaker 2: Was like bet on myself that one time, and once
Speaker 2: you win that bet, you know what I mean, You're
Speaker 2: just like, what if I did this? So if it
Speaker 2: was for that, I would have never uploaded my first
Speaker 2: TikTok if I didn't. If I was if I wasn't, like,
Speaker 2: let's roll the dice one more time? You did well
Speaker 2: the first time, you know.
Speaker 1: You listen to the whisper whatever it was right here.
Speaker 2: The whisper. Oh yeah, I call it my weeping willow
Speaker 2: like in Pocahontas. I like that well because I was
Speaker 2: a Disney girl. Yeah, and that was like the nicest
Speaker 2: fucking tree anyone ever fucking seen.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Sometimes not Sometimes every week I go and I visit
Speaker 2: teenage meet in our childhood bedroom and I tell her
Speaker 2: what we did that week.
Speaker 1: You do yeah, sublatively, it's like a yes.
Speaker 2: Yes actively actively. I sit and I make time for
Speaker 2: it and I pretend cool, and sometimes at the end
Speaker 2: of it, she'll be like, are we happy? And I
Speaker 2: know that if I say no, then she's gonna beike them,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is the point of me going through
Speaker 2: all that shit for? Because she hasn't done it yet,
Speaker 2: like telling somebody what like a what a racetrack is,
Speaker 2: what a marath's going to look like, you know, like
Speaker 2: the uphills, the downhills, whatever. So I have to make
Speaker 2: it worthwhile for her to keep going because she's been dreaming,
Speaker 2: dreaming about me her whole life. She like what I'm
Speaker 2: doing now, She's been thinking about her whole life, you know.
Speaker 2: So I think that's something too, where I carry fifteen
Speaker 2: year old me around with me so when it comes
Speaker 2: to the audition, I can hear and say, like bucket,
Speaker 2: who cares? You know?
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week