1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Cash rules everything around me. Cream. That's what today's episode 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: is about. Cream and sugar or stevia whatever, whatever works 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, you know it, could a fight club 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: esque scenario really take place? Uh? Those who know no, Uh, 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: no spoilers for a twenty year old movie. But yeah, 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: is it possible for an individual or a group, whether 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: in a terrorist act or an act of of of rebellion, 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: literally a race the world's debt or even a sector 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: of the world's a country's debt. Yeah, this an issue. Uh. 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: The idea of in two. Institutionalized debt is very, very old. 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: It's as old as human civilization. It's launched wars, it's 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: been the condition for ending wars. Uh. It exists even 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: in things like the effective student loan debt on millions 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: of people in the United States and abroad. The question is, 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: you know how much debt exists? And could someone really, 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: especially the world of digital money, could they just push 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: a button zero it out? Call a big mulligan on 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: the on the whole Dog and Pony Show. No jokes 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: on you guys, Jokes on you guys, because without debt, 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: there is no economy. Debt is the thing that makes 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: the economy all, let's learn about it. From UFOs to 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. 25 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel, and Ben 26 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: your you and if you are one of the people 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: who happens to live in the United States and you're 28 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: an average household, then you have around one hundred thirty thousand, 29 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: nine hundred and twenty two dollars in debt, and of 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: that seven two dollars can be attributed to credit cards. 31 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: Holy mackerel, we're starting off on a positive note today, 32 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: my friends. You know what I think? Again, this is 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: the second time I've been slightly below average the same, 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, but it's it doesn't feel great. Oh wait, no, 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: I am way above average. I got to count the house. 36 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: Uh if you count mortgage, that's interesting. Gosh, okay, well 37 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: then I'm well above average then. But but doesn't the 38 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: mortgage kind of count as an investment? I mean, it 39 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: depreciates over time, so it's not quite the same as 40 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: being in debt. But I guess it's looked at that 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: way as by creditors. Yeah, it feels that way now 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: now that I'm thinking about it. And uh, you know, 43 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: the reason that there's so much debt has been h 44 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: talked about at length for a long time by so 45 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: many people. We often, we in the majority of the 46 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: public across the globe, we often don't have the best 47 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: or most sophisticated understanding of what this is. And that's 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: why we as a species become embroiled in these strange 49 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: situations sometimes when all of a sudden, like consider the 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: Great Depression, Right, people are starving in the cities, right, 51 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: But in the rural Midwest, in the farming country, farmers 52 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: are throwing milk away and just gutting pigs and saving 53 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: what they can because the price on those animals, and 54 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: that you know that that beverage, I guess has tanked. 55 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: Some feels weird about calling milk a beverage, but bas 56 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: seely what I'm saying, like, that's and and then the 57 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: reason people would come to find that folks were starving 58 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: in one place, wh people were trashing resources in another 59 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: was due to something called the economy, right and right, 60 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: and then people would say, people would uh, the pundits 61 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: would be on the radio. The populist, the nationalists, the 62 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: whomevers would be on the radio arguing why they alone understood, uh, 63 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: the one true economy or what that thing should be. 64 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: And now we're in a world where I guess I 65 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: want to start off with the question, So did you 66 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: guys have economics classes in high school or in middle school? 67 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: I did, but I felt like, I feel like it 68 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: was rolled into something else, or it was like we 69 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: got half an economics class and then like the other 70 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: half was was Civics or something like that. You know, 71 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: but my memory of those days is a little hazy. 72 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: That's maybe that's made up. I got home X. Yeah, 73 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: I took not the same thing. No, I mean it 74 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: was personal finance. It was personal finance, if it was 75 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: all it was all that kind of stuff like how 76 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: to how to manage your your stuff, but it didn't 77 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: teach you how the Fed worked, no, and how to 78 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: write a check effectively. Right. One of the things that 79 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: I always think about is, you know, you're right, Matt. 80 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: For many people, at least in this country, the closest 81 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: thing people were offered to a personal finance class in 82 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: a public school is going to be home economics. However, 83 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: the individual person would probably be in a much better 84 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: position today if personal finance classes were mandatory. And I 85 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: know people don't like big brother federal mandates, but that's 86 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: an individual education, that is that is necessary to survive. 87 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't get that, and that's why 88 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: we end up in a country where the total debt 89 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: oh by U S consumers. I can break it down, 90 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: all right, Uh, let's see now it's time for a breakdown, right, 91 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, So what's the present one? Do we 92 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: have a backbeat for this? Okay? So credit cards seven 93 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: hundred thirty three billion dollars pales in comparison, of course, 94 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: to auto loans one point oh eight trillion dollars. And 95 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: then we have student loans one point to three trillion dollars, 96 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: and finally mortgages eight point to five trillion dollars. So 97 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: all of these numbers, these massive numbers, this is debt 98 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: um It's money that I guess needs to be paid. 99 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: What what is debt? Exactly? It's called American dream dollars. Oh, 100 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: as in imaginary dollars, which is this episode today we 101 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: are talking about that, and that I'm I'm laughing because nol, 102 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: what you just said, ties into so many other episodes 103 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: we could do. It hit us in our the course 104 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: of our research before we went on the air this week. 105 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: That currency itself is just a fascinating weird thing. It's 106 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: an agreement we make it totally is It's like it 107 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: could be shells, you know, shells or or or a 108 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: handful of sand. When you were a kid, did you 109 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: ever play the game where you just all agreed that 110 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: the floor was lava. It's like that, but with prizes 111 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: and you can move the floor for bunch of people. 112 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: I know that's that's a very biased thing, but well, yeah, 113 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: what is what is debt? That that's the question we 114 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: start with today, even though it's not our ultimate question. 115 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: So the good, the bad, the ugly of debt, Well, 116 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: it does do some oh nice copyright. Oh was that 117 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: Ineo Morricone? Oh man, he's the master my favorite soundtrack. 118 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go listen to that for the rest of 119 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: the weekend. But the good part about debt, and there 120 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: are good parts, is that it sort of makes the 121 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: world go round. What are some of the good things 122 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: that this debt system does? So, in the most basic 123 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: of terms, debt is it's it's an I O U. 124 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's without going into the entire history of 125 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: currency money as we know, at one time they used peppercorns, 126 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: peppercorns or currency that's got a function it makes your 127 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: food nice and spicy. But you know, I mean many 128 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: forms of currency were redeemable I O U s. I 129 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: mean that is essentially what currency boils down to, is 130 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: the redeemable I O U for a good or service, 131 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: either physically they contain some sort of valuable material a metal, gem, 132 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: what have you, poka shell, whatever, um, or they were 133 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: redeemable for the same amount of a different material. Okay, yeah, 134 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: So like an example for folks in the U s 135 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: And I know our numbers are pretty US centric at 136 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: this point, but we can get bigger. Uh. In the US, 137 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: there were these things called silver certificates, which fans of 138 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: certain JFK assassination theories will be familiar with. And until 139 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, these silver certificates legally could be redeemed 140 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: for the amount of silver that was mentioned on the currency, 141 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: and then they stopped. Yep. But the reason, the reason 142 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,239 Speaker 1: why money, why currency is so important to the functioning 143 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: of society is that all the goods and services that 144 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: are available for trading in some way or another. They 145 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: get boiled down to this common denominator where you have 146 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: X amount of this and I want to give you this. 147 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: I have X amount of this. I want to give 148 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: you this. We can trade with this one thing, rather 149 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: than having to break down exactly how much a goat 150 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: is worth in terms of wheat or something like that, 151 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: or you a car in terms or T shirts or 152 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: something strange. Yeah, I know why I'm hung up on 153 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: puka shells. I think I think, you know, maybe you 154 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: could bring it back. I think it's because I went 155 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: through that widespread panic concert last night and I saw 156 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: a lot of those. Yeah, I got a text from you. 157 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: The three am was just an animated gift of a 158 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: puka shell dancing furiously, dancing furiously. But what about liquidity. 159 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: That's interesting and very very very important component of all this. Yeah, 160 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: that's what you know. That's that's what we're talking about. 161 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: Two degrees that that advantage of this this stand in 162 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: So I I love what you said earlier, know with 163 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: you know the idea that money is essentially debt. Its 164 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: currency we carry around is a debt. It's a niou. 165 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: That was that was the way you said it. And 166 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: the reason it works currently is one because everybody agrees 167 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: that it should and two or virtually everybody agrees. Most 168 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: people agree and to the like, what did it offers 169 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: is so vastly superior to the bartering system for the 170 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: following thing. Okay, so let's say Matt has uh, Matt 171 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: is selling. What kind of car are you selling? Matt 172 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: uh countsh Matt is finally selling? Is counta not a 173 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: real car? Yeah, clearly I'm not a car that Matt is. 174 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: Still it is kuntas and know you decide you're going 175 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: to be a car guy, and because money doesn't exist, 176 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: you're going to break into your puka shell savings. But 177 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: the problem is that you don't live in the same town, 178 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: so you have to move this thing, and then you 179 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: have to also let's say it's a lot of puka 180 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: how many puka shells do you think you would That's 181 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: a lot, I'm gonna say, Okay, so too many for 182 00:11:54,320 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: knowl to comfortably carry, right, you can't you lose so much. 183 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: You'd lose so much shell just getting the shells there. 184 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: So I guess what I have to do is find 185 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: some sort of financial institution that will take my puka 186 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: shells from me, put them in some sort of puka 187 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: shell storage facility, and then give me the equivalent in 188 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: let's call them Internet Money's that that can then be 189 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: wired or transferred or moved around electronically. Bitcom sure, bitcomck 190 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: that's great, oh man, killing it today, buddy, And then 191 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: I can send that over the interwebs to the place 192 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: where I want to pay to me, Matt in my 193 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: banking institution, which only stores contash is right, that's that, 194 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: and then they're they're there, and you have a very rudimentary, 195 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: absurdist representation of the way business is done these days. Right, 196 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: And one of the most important parts there is that 197 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: Noll in this situation will then have a representative representative 198 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: token essentially of a value or an asset that he possesses. 199 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: So in theory, this promotes stability in trade, and in theory, 200 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: when nations are involved in mutually beneficial trade agreements, there's 201 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: more stability in the world. Allegedly, yes, mutually beneficial. Yes, 202 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna repeat words from that earlier sentence. Theoretically, 203 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: so these money systems and these debts ultimately, because that's 204 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: what they are. They can they can be great for 205 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: society and help them function and work better together. The 206 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: problem is they can also wreak massive, disastrous, sometimes even 207 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: fatal things upon society and individual people. Yeah, you you 208 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: may have, at some point in your life met someone 209 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: who referred to folks who have a nine to live 210 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: job as wage slaves. That's pretty biased, But the heart 211 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: of that argument harkens back to the idea of indentured servitude. 212 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: So indenture servitude would be some deal um. The first 213 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: one that springs to mind is people who wanted to 214 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: travel to a different country, right, but could not afford 215 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: the trip the cost of let's say, hopping a boat 216 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: across the Atlantica. But if you agree to essentially work 217 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: only for room and board for seven years, then they 218 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: will consider your debt paid if they're not playing a 219 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: crooked game, you know, right, And many of those games 220 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: were crooked. So the argument there would be that wage slaves, 221 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: as the term goes, our new form of indentured servitude. Uh, 222 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: we're addicted to an ivy of money, whether that's hourly 223 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: salary or commission, and we're addicted to that because we're 224 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: less of a value generator as an individual, if we're 225 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: that and more of a node for debt and assets 226 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: to interact. So you that's why people can make a 227 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year or who knows, who knows 228 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: how high this goes a million dollars a year and 229 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: still be just getting by due to due to crippling debt. 230 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: And then of course that ties into you know, a 231 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: similar argument forced labor, and we can save debt or 232 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: prison for another show, because is that still a thing? 233 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: It just in some places? Yeah? Wait, I thought it 234 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: had been here for years, but it's making a comeback 235 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: with interest here in the US. Men. Is that true? Well, yeah, 236 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the same equivalent, right a debt or 237 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: prison where IO debts I can't pay them. Now I 238 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: have to go live in this cell. Actually, there's I 239 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: just hit a story I typed in on Google and 240 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: one of the instant results was debt or prisons are back? 241 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: Top hit from fourteen? Is Supreme Court ruling not enough 242 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: to prevent dator's prison? Yeah, so you can. If you 243 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: have massive amounts of debt, you can go to prison 244 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: for it in certain instances. I thought that. I think 245 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the stories too that popped up recently, 246 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: as in the last few years, occurred because there were 247 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: usurious court fees, legal fees, and when people could not 248 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: could not pay those fees, they would be incarcerated until 249 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: such time as those fees were paid, which is surreal, 250 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: and how do you make money when you're hanging out 251 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: in a prison all day long, every day. And then 252 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: of course that brings us to bankruptcy, which unfortunately the 253 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: golden parachute, golden parachute to unfortunately too many people are 254 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: familiar with, and it works differently for the wealthy than 255 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: it does for the poor, completely differently. Anytime you hear 256 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: about a regular Joe Schmo declaring bankruptcy, they have to 257 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: work and scrap and safe and hustle for years to 258 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: get that off their record, to get back to a 259 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: place where anyone will give them alone again. And as 260 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: we know, for certain folks that are in the public 261 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: eye right now, it's happened multiple times. And it doesn't 262 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: seem to be any long lasting ramifications for for doing 263 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: this thing. It's almost more of like a business strategy. 264 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: It depends, yeah, it depends on how it is structured. 265 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, many people who are impoverished and fall into bankruptcy, 266 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: do not have the means or the connections to have 267 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: someone help them set up these I'm gesturing in the 268 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: air right now because so much of this stuff is 269 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: an idea. It's huge, it's huge, it is. And then 270 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: there's another one met call bills. This is also we're 271 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: at this point, ladies and gentlemen, We're just giving you 272 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: the lay of the land of debt in the US. So, 273 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: regardless of the political stance, regardless of what television channel 274 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: is most often trying to convince you to believe something, 275 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: the fact remains that for the vast majority of the 276 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: city of citizens, the United States has the most inefficient 277 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: and expensive health care system in the developed world. This 278 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: is not just a country where people die because a 279 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: disease or a condition is incurable. This is a country 280 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: where people die because they cannot afford a treatment. And 281 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: for some people that is a great tragedy. For other people, 282 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: that is uh a result of the individual's decisions and 283 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: is how it is, how it goes. But well, the 284 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: reason we bring this up for the purposes of this 285 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: show is because medical bills in this country are a 286 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: leading cause of bankruptcy. They're leading cause of people, uh 287 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: going into crippling debt. And we have current debt issues, 288 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: a lot of which are medically related. Yeah, when you 289 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: look at the country overall and debts that are kind 290 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: of hanging out waiting for the national government to pay. 291 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: The first one is social security, and we looked at 292 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: the summary of the annual report by the Social Security 293 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: and Medicare Board of Trustees, which sounds like a fun 294 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: place to work. They note that over the eighty year 295 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: history of the Social social Security program, it's collected roughly 296 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: nineteen trillion dollars and paid out sixteen point one trillion dollars, 297 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: leaving its asset reserves currently at two point eight trillion 298 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: at the end by the end of Now here's here's 299 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,479 Speaker 1: the problem. The ratio of reserves to one year's projected cost. 300 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: It peaked in two thousand and eight and then it's 301 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: been declining up until two thousand fifteen, and it's it's 302 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: expected to decline even further until they're completely depleted in 303 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: four which means this money that's supposed to go to 304 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: help families with retirement, people who have disabilities, um, you know, 305 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: all kinds of issues people that need this money to 306 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: survive that we all pay into when you're a wage 307 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: worker in the US, it's just gonna be gone. And 308 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: that's something that's just kind of looming there in the 309 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: horizon that we have to think about. And the same 310 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: goes for Medicare, which is, uh, you know, dwindling quickly. 311 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: All these all these huge the huge amount of money 312 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: that are owed essentially on paper to people who once 313 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: they reach a certain age, needs to be paid out right. Yeah, 314 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: And the one of the issues with this is that 315 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: at various times the money for both of those programs 316 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: has been either controversially redistributed or maybe misunderestimated is a 317 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: good word, misunderestimated I like that. But yeah, there it's 318 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: two serious issues that we're going to have to face 319 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: at some point. And and that group we just mentioned, 320 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: they're saying that legislation needs to be enacted sooner or 321 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: later to minimize the impact on beneficiaries human beings who 322 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: are going to need that money. So what's uh, what 323 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: what's the international state of debt? Here? Well, according to 324 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: National Debt Clocks dot org, worldwide national debt stands at 325 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: sixty trillion, nine one billion, three hundred and thirty two 326 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: million and counting. That seems like a lot of money. 327 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: It seems like mad money, made up money, imaginary money. 328 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: If it's the number that's too big to be real, 329 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean that that sounds alarmist. But whenever I see 330 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: this stuff on paper, I'm just like, this is. No 331 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: one's ever expecting to get paid back all of this money. 332 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: It's the debt itself is its own function, serves its 333 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: own function, as we've talked about exactly, you know, and 334 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: that if it's fascinating to me, and I think for 335 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: some people that idea maybe makes them more willing to 336 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: go into debt because it's sort of like, well, if 337 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: if we're running a deficit as a country, why can't 338 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: I run a little bit of a deficit. I can't 339 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: just have the stuff, you know, it's I want to 340 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: live the dream, and it's easy to get credit. You 341 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: don't have to have that much equity to get credit. 342 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: You just have to have a decent paying job and 343 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: not an absurdly low credit score. It's not hard. Well, 344 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: in this case, we're talking about countries themselves. I say perspective. 345 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: I think when you see these kinds of numbers and 346 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 1: you hear about how much you know the United States? 347 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: Isn't that, etcetera. It almost makes you say, well, well, 348 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: hell yeah, what why not me who cares? Right? It 349 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like anyone is getting paid back, so why 350 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 1: not just roll the dice right and emphasize this perspective further. 351 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: Let's break it down by the top owing countries in 352 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: the world. Now it's time for another breakdown. Russia hundred 353 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: forty seven point six billion, Australia point four billion, Canada 354 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: eight d and fourteen point seven billion, United Kingdom two 355 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: point three trillion, China five point four trillion, Japan eight 356 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: point nine trillion, United States together now three trillion. Why 357 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: did I do a fake air horn? I guess you 358 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: could just put one. Are you talking about? That was 359 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: the best air horn I've ever heard of my life. Ben, 360 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: I know I'm prone to hyperboly, but I really do 361 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: believe that. So that's a significant proportion of the overall 362 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: global debt that the US holds right there, which you 363 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: know worries me a little bit. So how does that 364 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: break down for person met going to perspective? Okay, so 365 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: there are three hundred and twenty three million humans roughly 366 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: in the United States right now, citizens, and you know, 367 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: nineteen point three trillion. That amounts to just under sixty 368 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: thousand dollars of national debt per U S citizen, and 369 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: it represents one hundred and seven percent of the country's 370 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,479 Speaker 1: gross domestic product year over year. So if somehow we 371 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: could stop paying stop all payments on everything in this 372 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: country for a year, you know, we'd be able to 373 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: pay off our national debt, which is kind of cool. Now, 374 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: let's also emphasize that this is not the This is 375 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: not the same kind of debt that you might encounter 376 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: if you have a student loan or absolutely, so this 377 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: is not the same kind of debt you would encounter 378 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: if you purchased um a moped. Sure, absolutely, And all 379 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: the numbers that we've discussed here in in our breakdown, 380 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: and the one about the the sixty dollars per person, 381 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: these are very basic, base level numbers, and if you 382 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: get deeper down in the accounting, it gets it gets 383 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: really tricky. And I was trying to familiarize myself and 384 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: understand it, but you guys, it's difficult. Right, none of 385 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: us are classically trained economist, and we would love to 386 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: hear from any economist in the audience, would love to 387 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: hear your opinion on the state of debt. Fun fact, 388 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: though I am a classically trained violinist, it is true. 389 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: That is awesome. You're a man many talents. I have 390 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: a little story for for us relating to the U 391 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: S National debt. Would you like to hear it and 392 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: come at me with it? All right? Okay? I was, 393 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: there was There was some hesitation there, all right. So 394 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: the story comes from a guy named Jason see Linkman. 395 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: Jason Selingman, you see, was an economist. It's quite good 396 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: at his job, so good in fact, that he worked 397 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Avenue, or he worked his boss lived there, he 398 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: worked for the president. That's how good he was. And 399 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: he was tortured at this time because he was thinking 400 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: for sixteen hours a day on this project he was 401 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: working on for his boss, a report that he was 402 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: going to write for his boss. And in that report 403 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: he ran into a realization that might stun a lot 404 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: of people. And he wrote with with his team a 405 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: report called Life After Debt, which they submitted to then 406 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: President Bill Clinton and which journalists got a hold of 407 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: years later through a Freedom of Information Act requests. And 408 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: Life after Debt is a report that you can read 409 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: it for free online. It is a report that outlines 410 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: what would happen if the US paid down its debt 411 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: to zero. And they wrote this in December of two thousand, 412 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: because that's the or the U. S Treasury began actively 413 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: buying back public debt, creating um, you know, digging its 414 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: way out of the financial whole it was in. But 415 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: they realized, Jason realized eventually that while there is such 416 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: a thing as too much debt for countries, there's also 417 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: such a thing as too little debt. So countries don't 418 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: want to necessarily have a surplus. In many cases it's 419 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: unreasonable outside of you know, a few a few countries 420 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: like the like Nordic countries, un some oil oil wealth countries. 421 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: So what we see is that the international level understanding 422 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: of debt and the individual levels to understand debt is different. 423 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: Not all debt is created equally. Businesses will go into 424 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: debt and have specialized, custom fit or bespoke plans for 425 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 1: balancing that debt. However, someone who was built into a 426 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: series of high high interest credit cards or student loans 427 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: will often not have that sort of a course. Here 428 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: in this country. There are federal programs that are supposed 429 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: to provide assistance for people who have the misfortune of 430 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: not being a business or a country when they go 431 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: into debt. However, much more money is spent by the 432 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: folks who make money off of credit cards and student 433 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: loans to make sure that system continues. And as of now, 434 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: debt what we've explained so far, Yes, there is an 435 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: inequality of debt. Not all debt is created equal, not 436 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: all people are in debt. But debt is a problem 437 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: for a lot of individuals, especially here in the West. 438 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter is debt makes the 439 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: world go round. So we were asking ourselves a few 440 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: weeks back, what would happen if we woke up one 441 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: day and all of the debt disappeared. We'll find out 442 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: right after a quick message from our sponsor. Here's where 443 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. All right, everyone, it's story time. Let's 444 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: imagine a scenario where this actually happened, where where through 445 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: some act of massive buffoonery sorcery, it's not something insane happened, 446 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: and Mr Noel Brown wakes up in a world free 447 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: from debt. Ah, I can hear, how relax he is 448 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: exactly look at this world free from debt. Yeah. Well, 449 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: the great news is if he had any student loans, 450 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: medical bills, critic cards, mortgage to automatically, he'd be in 451 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: the clear for all those debts. It's gone. What a 452 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: time to be alive, guys. So so what what would do? 453 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: Of course, he would take some he would want to 454 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: get to take some cash, get on that first dream 455 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: trip with his you know, his honey, his squeeze, his 456 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: girl ever and uh, naturally they would go to Borneo. 457 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: That would go to Borneo and go to Borneo. But wait, 458 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: there would be some problems here. Oh, to get the 459 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: tickets to Borneo, Noel Brown has to buy them, and 460 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: the debit card he tries to use to buy the 461 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: ticket doesn't work because the bank that runs that debit 462 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: card is in a tail spin because debt no longer exists. 463 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: And the dirty open secret about banks, I don't know 464 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: if it's necessarily call it dirty, it's just how they work, 465 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: is that the money in Noel Brown's account was used 466 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: to be a loan to someone else. Yeah, Rain Capital 467 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: used it to invest in a small company in Atlanta 468 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, And that's when that's when 469 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: Noel Brown has to explain to this woman that he 470 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: loves he was going to take on a magical romantic 471 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: get away to Borneo, why they can't go to Borneo, 472 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: And he gives her his following speech. Well, you see, 473 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: as it turns out, most of the money in the 474 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: world is really just someone else's debt. Yeah, the money 475 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: in your bank account, my bank account, our joint bank 476 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: account because we're in love, is mostly on loan to 477 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: other people. Why. Yeah, the bank they took our money 478 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: and they used it to give someone else a car loan, 479 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: to give someone else a home loan, to give someone 480 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: else a loan to buy a suite new computer. Oh 481 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: but wait, there's more. There's an upside here for the banks. Yeah, 482 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: they get to use some sneaky accounting, very tricksy accounting, 483 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: and by doing that, they don't have to hold everyone's 484 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: money all of the time. It's a it's sort of 485 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: a game of you know, back and forth. It's being 486 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: moved around all over the place. They just hold some 487 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: of the money, and by some we're talking a tiny fraction. 488 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: So at the height of the financial crisis in two 489 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: thousand seven, many banks were actually leveraged at a ratio 490 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: of thirty to one. Then can you clarify that? Yes, 491 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: So in this scenario, I've I've showed up at Noel's house. 492 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: He's explaining to the love of his life he can't 493 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: go to Bordio. Well, we're at the airport. Oh you're 494 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: at the airport. Oh okay, alright, cool. Now I feel 495 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: underdressed because I'm obviously in my jammies. But I only 496 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: go to the airport in my jammie's. I think that's 497 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: the only time I've ever said the word jammies. Alright, 498 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: rule of three. So to clarify, Noel Brown and his 499 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 1: moving tragic speech will be telling this this uh love 500 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: of his life and whomever else is going to go 501 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: with them, that his bank account and all bank accounts 502 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: are essentially emptied unless the bank magically replenishes the account, 503 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: which would throw things into chaos. But you know, it 504 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: is a series of key strokes on a computer screen. 505 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: At least we have the fd I C that ensures 506 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: up to a certain amount, right, right, But a bank 507 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 1: no longer has a reason to exist as its sole 508 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: purpose for from this perspective, is to move debt around 509 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: every stock exchange, while Noel Brown is delivering this speech 510 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: in Hartsfield Airport. I imagine you're in Hartsfield, of course. Okay, Uh, 511 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: every stock exchange closes, Noel's investment portfolio is wiped out. 512 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: The puka shells he still has, but any puka shell futures, 513 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: any uh puka shell short short stocks, And I'm just 514 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: making upwards. Yeah, gonna I'm gonna need that back. Sorry, 515 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: I hope you don't mind, Because an investment is just 516 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: funding someone else's debt with the promise or the hope 517 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 1: of getting more back in return, but no one will 518 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: pay you back. And also, uh, Noel and his sweeties 519 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: retirement funds, they have one, along with everybody else's. Also 520 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: poof vanish. There's a guy named Thomas Dalton who I 521 00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: think described this really well. What would happen if lenders 522 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: wrote off all debts. He sets is that there would 523 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: be a massive transfer of wealth from net lenders to 524 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: net borrowers. The net lenders of the world are things 525 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: like governments, right, uh, and young adults are we are 526 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: often net borrowers, and those close to retirement are often 527 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: net lenders. Because pension funds invest by lending. At least 528 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: some of the money out. So what would happen if 529 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: debt was erased would be a massive transfer of wealth 530 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: from the old to the young and to governments. And 531 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: Dalton also says we can make a mistake by thinking 532 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: of this as a transfer of wealth from the rich 533 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: to the poor, but it wouldn't work that way because 534 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: the very poor don't usually have much debt. No one 535 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: is willing to lend to them. It's only those with 536 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: large incomes or assets or potential incomes that build up 537 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: significant debt. So depending on what governments do now that 538 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: they're free from paying interest on their debts, they were 539 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: never going to actually pay back the debts, so it's 540 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: just the interest. The poor might benefit extra government spending, However, 541 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: it might be the rich that benefit from tax cuts. 542 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: Pensioners and those who are getting to retirement age would 543 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: have some serious difficulties. The super wealthy, says Dalton, may 544 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: lose some money, but they usually invest in equity rather 545 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: than debt, so since the companies they own often have 546 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of debt, the share prices would probably increase enormously, 547 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: assuming of course, that the stock market would still be around, 548 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: which is debatable. And then he said in addition, institutional 549 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: lenders would all be bankrupt, banks, insurance companies, pension funds. 550 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: The world economy would probably collapse, and to be honest, 551 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: everyone would suffer erasing all debt. This that that's his quotation. 552 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: In our opinion, a racing all debt is the nuclear 553 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,919 Speaker 1: weapon of economic warfare, which sounds kind of heady until 554 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: we realize that economic warfare already exist today. It's occurred 555 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: in the past. We've talked about it a little bit 556 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: before with a guy named John Perkins who wrote a 557 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: book called Confessions of an Economic hit Man, and which 558 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: he says he worked for an engineering company in Boston 559 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: and his job was to convince leaders of underdeveloped countries 560 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: to accept development loans for construction and engineering projects, and 561 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 1: having a condition of those loans be that the projects 562 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: went to US companies, and these loans would later give 563 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: the US government influence and access to natural resources. And 564 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: we have a quote from the book that we're going 565 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: to read here. Economic hit men are highly paid professionals 566 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. 567 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: They funnel money from the World Bank, the US Agency 568 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: for International Development, and other foreign aid organizations into the 569 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few 570 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: wealthy families who control the planets and natural resources. Their 571 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, 572 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: and murder. They play a game that is old as empire, 573 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: but one that has taken on a new and terrifying 574 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: dimension during this time of globalization. And this is something 575 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: we've explored before. Uh often referred to as resource extraction. 576 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: So that's one example of how economic warfare could work, 577 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: and that would pale in comparison to the economic warfare 578 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: of erasing all debt, regardless of the intention behind it. 579 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: Erasing all that would be strange. But how how could 580 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: this We're talking about the ideas, right, and we've talked 581 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: about the numbers of debt, But let's talk about how 582 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: this could work. How could someone erace debt? Well? To 583 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: do this, we look at some examples from pop culture, 584 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: because that's really the only place where this has been 585 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: fully explored. Yeah, and there's some fun ones, and I 586 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: mean it's it's like, one of the ones that comes 587 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: to mind, um that we haven't explicitly discussed together is 588 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: the movie Escaped from l a where at the end 589 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: they we are going to get into some spoiler territory here. 590 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: You also, if we're mentioning a movie or something and 591 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: you don't want to know what happens, you should probably 592 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: skip ahead maybe seven minutes or so, or you know, 593 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: go back ten years and watch Escape from you know 594 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: it's it's on It's on the Netflix. I think you 595 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: can get it. But at the end of Escape from 596 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: l A, there's a device that essentially shuts down all electricity, 597 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: shuts down even batteries. They make a point in the 598 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: say like, oh, this will even like render all batteries useless, 599 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: and yeah, so this is sort of like a super 600 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: extreme version where it's like an all encompassing attack that 601 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: would not only get rid of all dead as we 602 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: know it, but pretty much reduced you know, humanity too. 603 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: Back to the Dark aig as we need to you know, 604 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,959 Speaker 1: start over. But a really good one that does specifically 605 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: deal with um actually targeting financial corporations is Fight Club nine, 606 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: David Fincher film based on the novel by Chuck palinek Um. 607 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: There are some pretty significant differences between the novel and 608 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: the and the film, but they do a pretty good 609 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: job of having a very similar let's say, mission statements. 610 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: So in Fight Club, Um, they're the group of these 611 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: kind of project yeah, project mayhem, that's right, sort of 612 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of like, uh, depressed, overly macho males, middle aged. Yeah. 613 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 1: They want to fight back because they feel like they've 614 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,839 Speaker 1: been marginalized by society. They are angry. Um. Honestly, their 615 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: motivations are not particularly um positive. They're not really trying 616 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,919 Speaker 1: to help anybody. They just kind of want to watch 617 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: the world burn a little bit um in my opinion. 618 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: That's that's what I take from it. But in order 619 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: to do this, they stage an attack what could reasonably 620 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: be considered a terrorist attack on the corporate headquarters of 621 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: several large credit card companies. I think their seven buildings 622 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: that are destroyed during the en scene, which to me 623 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: is such an iconic scene, and it's the first place 624 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: I ever heard the Pixies song where Is My? Who 625 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: Is This band? And then I you know, was down 626 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,919 Speaker 1: a rabbit hole from then on here we are so um. 627 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: Even at the time, I always thought this was sort 628 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: of a little bit of a rudimentary example of wiping 629 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: out the debt, because it's like, surely these things are 630 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: backed up elsewhere, you know, not just in the building. 631 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 1: And by blowing up a building alone, you're not wiping 632 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: out the debt. It would require some sort of deep 633 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: infiltration of an entire file system and structure and network. 634 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: Getting much more into hacker territory before we get there. 635 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: The little bit of an interesting fact toy that Matt 636 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: turned me onto. Um, did you guys know that in 637 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: the novel Fight Club it takes place in Wilmington's Delaware? 638 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,240 Speaker 1: Do you guys remember twelve o nine North Orange Street, 639 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: the Corporation Trust Center, the official address of over two companies, Willington, Delaware. Um, 640 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: there's a couple of little inklings in the film that 641 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: it takes place there as well. But I thought that 642 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: was a pretty clever nod. And this address keeps popping 643 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 1: up for us. We're gonna have to do. I think 644 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to do like a whole episode this address. 645 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: Let's take it. Let's let's go there physically, Listeners, let 646 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: us know if you would was to go there, maybe 647 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: we can meet up to hang out. So, like I said, 648 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't feel like this example holds up. 649 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: This is more of sort of an anarchist kind of 650 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 1: like I said, watch the World burn kind of thing. 651 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: But um, we have we have a really good example 652 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: in our our wonderful sponsors. As it turns out, Mr 653 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: Robot um the series involving a sort of anonymous esque 654 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: society of hackers called f Society who orchestrates a very 655 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: high level cyber attack against E Corp, which to me 656 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 1: is I think a very clever stand in for Enron 657 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: maybe or any their giant corporation or financial financial level 658 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: or something. Um. And to me, this is this is 659 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: how you would you would do this. If you were 660 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: going to attempt to do some kind of to orchestrate 661 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: some kind of complete erasure of the debt record, it 662 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: would have to be through infiltrating these systems, not just 663 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: blowing up a building or one computer or one set 664 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: of servers. Yeah, and they and they do. Uh. I 665 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,839 Speaker 1: guess it's a two pronged attack. And there may even 666 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: be more than that that we just don't understand, uh 667 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,760 Speaker 1: as viewers and you know, in the world of Mr. Robot, 668 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: But they do it by using this thing called Interpreter, 669 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: which is a meta sapoit back door. And the main 670 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: character Elliott goes into the main servers of e Corp, 671 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: installs a really simple program like an e x C 672 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: file on their server, which then gives them and an 673 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: easy to access back door to the servers so they 674 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: can go in. And it's crazy. It uses memory, so 675 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: it's not actually writing anything to disk, it's just using 676 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: the RAM on the on the machine to create this 677 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: back door. I don't pretend to understand the hacking tools, 678 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 1: but according to numerous people online who are actually in 679 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: the info sex space and all this, they're saying that, yes, 680 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: this is this is real. You could do this and 681 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: you could delete information if you had this kind of backdoor. 682 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: And like we've said about the show, I mean, it 683 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: definitely gets a lot of this stuff right. Even like 684 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: the when you see the dude doing his hacking, it 685 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: looks like command line things instead of some sort of 686 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: bizarrow like three D rendering of the Internet as it 687 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,919 Speaker 1: would be if you were floating around and hackers or something. Yeah, 688 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: I was thinking of that nineties film Hackers as well. 689 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: So what would be hit in these things? Insurance companies, Banks. 690 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 1: Insurance companies are bigger depositories of this kind of value 691 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: than you might think. Um, there would also, of course, 692 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: be government institutions. This would be stuff like this would 693 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: have to involve treasuries as well as mints. This, this 694 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: would involve a simultaneous attack on thousands of things. It 695 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: would be very difficult to do. It also makes me 696 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: wonder as a little off, but it also makes me 697 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:30,959 Speaker 1: wonder if someone had that power, why stop at debt? 698 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: Why not also erase repositories of personal information so like 699 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: medical info? Uh, you know the metadata that the National 700 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: Snooping Administration collects from you the Facebook servers. Yeah, And 701 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about the attack strategies. I 702 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: think when you mentioned the escape from l a scenario 703 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: of actively cutting off electronics stuff. Right, what does this 704 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: what does this cloud money mean if we cannot access 705 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: the cloud? Yeah, if you would have to kill electricity 706 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: indefinitely in order to make that work, because there are 707 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, all of these huge institutions like Iron Mountain 708 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,239 Speaker 1: that holds sensitive data like this. They've got him like 709 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,319 Speaker 1: crazy generators and backup power and all the other not 710 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: to mention they keep backups on like physical tapes and 711 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, like stuff that would stand the test of 712 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: time and a vault, you know, and they're constantly updating 713 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,279 Speaker 1: these things and backing up all their all their data. 714 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, in the old days of my family, 715 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: it was very different. Uh, there were things that would 716 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: happen when somebody wanted to get we wanted information to disappear. 717 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: And you think about it, we live in a time 718 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: where just less than what a hundred years ago, even 719 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:12,840 Speaker 1: up to the nineteen seventies, eighties, if a right, definitely 720 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 1: sixties or so, if a bank or a courthouse burned, 721 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: then there would be no evidence of debt or arrests 722 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 1: or records. There were people in my family were not 723 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: true when they were born because yeah, because someone burned 724 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: a courthouse or two. Yeah, and uh, this I mean, 725 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 1: but we no longer live in that world because there 726 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,840 Speaker 1: are multiple copies of these records, which leads us to 727 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: why it probably wouldn't work if we're talking about global 728 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: debt records. So in the world of Mr Robot, it 729 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: does work. Um, and that's because E Corp. Evil Corp. 730 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: Owns roughly of the consumer credit industry, which is a 731 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,319 Speaker 1: bit hard to fathom in our world. It means they 732 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: would just own as subsidiaries, let's say Capital One and 733 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,920 Speaker 1: most of the Visa, other companies that use Visa or 734 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: MasterCard or any of those. I feel like, in theory 735 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: we have laws in place to prevent things like that 736 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,800 Speaker 1: from happening. Well, you know, hopefully it doesn't happen in 737 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: the future for us, you know, but but in our 738 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: world it's and this is not debatable. These various industries, 739 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 1: from credit cards, mortgages, student loans, health insurance, all of 740 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:29,360 Speaker 1: these are controlled by hundreds and hundreds of separate, competing companies. 741 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: Like you said earlier, Ben, and you would have to 742 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you would have to strike at a huge 743 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,479 Speaker 1: number of locations in order to make this happen. Um. 744 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,920 Speaker 1: In fact, almost all the computers. Um. And Okay, so 745 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,840 Speaker 1: let's say you were able to take out a single, 746 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: huge international credit card company. Look, I'm just using Capital one. Sorry, Capital, 747 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,319 Speaker 1: I'm just using it because I have your credit card. Um. 748 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: It would be this tiny, itsy bitsy little dent in 749 00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,879 Speaker 1: the all encompassing global debt machine that exists all around us. Right, 750 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,480 Speaker 1: And there's so many eyes watching this as well. There 751 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 1: are multiple, multiple international, state level and even local institutions 752 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: that are tasked with doing this. But then there's another thing, 753 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: which is uh, many countries maintain a reserve of actual 754 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 1: resources rather than just currencies. So the US has you've 755 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,920 Speaker 1: probably heard, a strategic reserve of petrol. Uh, the US 756 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: has strategic reserves of valuable metals, right, And other countries 757 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: do the same thing. And then we have other reserves 758 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: of other people's currencies. So if you hit one country, 759 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,759 Speaker 1: then the currency that didn't get hit, that money will 760 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,680 Speaker 1: just become more valuable. So think of these reserves as 761 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: massive savings accounts. They fluctuate as spending is needed. Uh. 762 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: In some countries, those reserves are uh, dwindling, these currency reserves. Right. 763 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,839 Speaker 1: So here's just a few examples. And some countries these 764 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: reserves are dwindling. You're getting low. According to the World Bank, 765 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: the US had five hundred and seventy four billion in 766 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:14,839 Speaker 1: total reserves in the reserves fell below a hundred and 767 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,800 Speaker 1: seven billion UM. But in other countries these reserves are 768 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: actually skyrocketing. In two thousand, China held a hundred and 769 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: seventy two billion, and that's in US dollars correct, And 770 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:31,560 Speaker 1: in China's reserves jumped to a whopping three point three 771 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: four trillion, yes trillion, And there are numerous reasons behind this. Uh. 772 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: Some have to do with the importance of one currency 773 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: versus another, or treasury bonds. Another has to do with 774 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 1: trade versus currency or trade balance, and overall strategies of 775 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 1: where you're where you're going with your country. And it's 776 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 1: it's a fascinating thing that I think, Ben, maybe we 777 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,279 Speaker 1: should look at in the future. Yeah, I agreed, And 778 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,839 Speaker 1: especially if this interest you, ladies and gentlemen, we we 779 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: can cover it. There's the other the other factor here 780 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,879 Speaker 1: that disaster recovery data back up something happens. Let's say 781 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 1: there is an attempt well the Mr Robots scenario as 782 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:16,799 Speaker 1: they said, for it makes a little more sense than 783 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 1: to demolish the building's plan and fight club because they're 784 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 1: targeting servers as well as backup data stores. And these 785 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,960 Speaker 1: things have started to become commonplace in the nine seventies 786 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,520 Speaker 1: when people began to realize how um Matt you described 787 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,799 Speaker 1: it best when we said insanely dependent we are. We 788 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: as a species become on computers and the data contained 789 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 1: within those. So the strategies are redundancy plus off site 790 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,680 Speaker 1: and cloud storage. The records of what is what and 791 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:57,200 Speaker 1: when exists in multiple places, uh, which is also strange 792 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:02,640 Speaker 1: because that kind of thing that not omnipresence but I 793 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: guess by location, is one of the miracles sometimes attributed 794 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: to saints. So going back to our earlier thing about 795 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:16,440 Speaker 1: modern mythology, in a way, through robotics were through electronics 796 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:21,720 Speaker 1: and computing, we are once again building the miracles of old, 797 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:26,200 Speaker 1: but in a very strange way. So when we're looking 798 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: at this, the question is what is the stuff they 799 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 1: don't want you to know? More immediately? Who are they? Well, 800 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 1: at this point we can say we we feel we 801 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: feel pretty secure saying that one of the problems with 802 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:50,280 Speaker 1: learning objectively about everything from individual finance to the financial 803 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,399 Speaker 1: food fight that is international relations uh, and food fight 804 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: being you know, an allusion to the resources. Uh. The 805 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,000 Speaker 1: what what we're seeing is that it's tough to learn 806 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 1: this because the people who can teach you have agendas. 807 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,240 Speaker 1: So you learned this first, Uh, Well, the yeah, people 808 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: who can teach you will have agendas, and that you know, naturally, 809 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:19,480 Speaker 1: I can tie into almost anything that we learn. You know, 810 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,840 Speaker 1: somebody who is an Egyptologist is going to have a 811 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,359 Speaker 1: very different opinion about the importance of Egypt and civilization, 812 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,440 Speaker 1: right sure, But in this case, the stakes are high 813 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 1: and their currency, right, And I mean, of course you're 814 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:41,160 Speaker 1: not denigrating Egypt, which is enormously influential. But but but yeah, 815 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,759 Speaker 1: maybe archaeology is a bad comparison. I think that's that's 816 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: a great point though. If you ask uh uh an 817 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:54,560 Speaker 1: economist from the US versus an economist from China and 818 00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:59,279 Speaker 1: economists from Russia or Iran, you're going to receive different answers. 819 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 1: And they're not necessarily the wrong answers from that economist, 820 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:10,439 Speaker 1: they're the they're the answers that most benefit that perspective, right. 821 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,040 Speaker 1: And this means that in our conversations Noel, Matt and 822 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:19,080 Speaker 1: I may have different perspectives, it doesn't This is a 823 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,360 Speaker 1: case where if we disagree, it doesn't mean one of 824 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,759 Speaker 1: us is wrong. Well, let's get down to it. I mean, 825 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, economics isn't an exact science. 826 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,880 Speaker 1: There are different schools of thought that are deep rooted 827 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:35,080 Speaker 1: in older schools of thought, you know, and uh, Like 828 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: you said, just because one person has a particular perspective 829 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong, And the true answer might 830 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,360 Speaker 1: be somewhere in between. Combining different perspectives. There's a lot 831 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,919 Speaker 1: of philosophy always use ideology exactly, but it's it's very 832 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: it's not I don't want to say that it's imprecise. 833 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 1: I think that's that's short selling it just a little bit, 834 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: because I mean, obviously there is a lot of detailed, 835 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,120 Speaker 1: high level thinking that goes into this, but it's much 836 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,839 Speaker 1: more like a theory, you know, than it is, Yeah, 837 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,360 Speaker 1: a formula. We also did not We also haven't looked 838 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,320 Speaker 1: at what would happen if a concentrated segment or type 839 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:21,080 Speaker 1: of debt were a race. If just for instance, just 840 00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: more how specific do we want to go. Gent's just 841 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:30,480 Speaker 1: mortgages on ranch style homes are just wiped out, Like 842 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,399 Speaker 1: what would that? That would still have a ripple, less 843 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: of an effect, but it would still happen. I thought 844 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,800 Speaker 1: it would have a ripple. If you know, all loans 845 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:43,239 Speaker 1: for any kind of watercraft, you know, like a sailboat 846 00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,640 Speaker 1: or a jet ski, it would have many ripples. I 847 00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:52,920 Speaker 1: think I was worth it, or so. We we've talked 848 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 1: a little bit about the consequences. The the they the 849 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,920 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. For this episode, 850 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:04,480 Speaker 1: the stuff be the state of economy debt in the 851 00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,920 Speaker 1: world affecting individual debt, an individual debt affecting the action 852 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 1: of states, the the existence of currency. Yeah, you know, 853 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,120 Speaker 1: is it just? Is it truly just? And I owe you? 854 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,440 Speaker 1: Is it simply a system of coupons that future historians 855 00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:27,360 Speaker 1: will find, uh will put on the par of lost religions? Right? 856 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's that's an extreme point of view, and 857 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,479 Speaker 1: that's an extreme way to phrase that question. But what 858 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,480 Speaker 1: do you think, ladies and gentlemen. We we spent some 859 00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,439 Speaker 1: time on this one, so we're going to head out 860 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 1: of here, but we would like to hear from you 861 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,760 Speaker 1: any stories you have that you think more people should 862 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,919 Speaker 1: know about debt, whether individual or international. What you think, 863 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: if anything could be changed to fix this or is 864 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:59,520 Speaker 1: this perfect the way it is? Most importantly, do you 865 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: think the world's debt should be a race despite the 866 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: frankly certain and inevitable consequences. Because I'll say my personal 867 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,920 Speaker 1: perspective here, even if there were some kind of financial 868 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,080 Speaker 1: kill switch, a reset button that would take debt to zero, 869 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:23,200 Speaker 1: eventually debt would a system of debt would evolve. Puka Shells. 870 00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: You are on the ground floor, my man, so you 871 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 1: can let us know your thoughts on Facebook and Twitter. 872 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,560 Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Instagram where conspiracy Stuff 873 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,320 Speaker 1: on Facebook, and Twitter where conspiracy stuff show on Instagram 874 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,960 Speaker 1: and if and that's the end of this classic episode. 875 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,880 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 876 00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,320 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 877 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,320 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 878 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,959 Speaker 1: us a call or number is one eight three three 879 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 880 00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,760 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 881 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,680 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 882 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,600 Speaker 1: they Don't Want you to Know is a production of 883 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,640 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 884 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,600 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 885 00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:13,960 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.