1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, friends and neighbors through the US and globally, 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: including Canada. This podcast is called Taking a Walk, and 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm your grateful host Buzznight. We seek to do as 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: many Taking a Walks as we can ultimately in person, 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: but sometimes when somebody is based outside of the country 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: and we desperately want to have him on, then we 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: bend the rules and we do it virtually. And our 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: guest is from Canada. Matt Kundall is our guest. He 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: has graciously had me on his SoundOff podcast previously a 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: few times I had a blast. And he is the 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: host of the sound Off podcast where he talks to 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: folks about broadcasting, trends, new media, and whatever else comes 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: up on his mind. We'll talk to Matt next on 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: taking a Walk. Well, Matt, I wish we were together 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: walking in the neighborhood where you are in Canada, but 16 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:02,959 Speaker 1: virtually next best thing. 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to taking a Walk. 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: It's great to be here. Thanks. 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: What part of Canada are you. 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 3: I'm in Winnipeg, which is dead center. We're two hours 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: north of Grand Forks and seven hours north of Minneapolis. 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 1: And what's the weather like today in your beautiful neighborhood? 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: Got about twenty eight degrees celsius, which puts us in 24 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 3: the eighties fahrenheit. 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: I like that. So when did you get hooked on broadcasting? 26 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: When did you know you were hooked? 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 3: Wow? I've got early memories of listening to am radio 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 3: like CKGM and Montreal and CFRA in Ottawa. But I 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 3: think I knew I wanted to go into radio sometime 30 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 3: around nineteen eighty seven nineteen eighty eight, getting into the 31 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: graduating years of high school, and I thought that it'd 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 3: be a lot of fun to be on the radio. 33 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 3: And I'd wake up every morning listening to show Me FM, 34 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 3: the legendary showman Montreal, and I thought it would just 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: be awesome to be one of those personalities on the radio. 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 3: And I had my mind made up, and from that 37 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 3: point forward said I'm going to be on the radio 38 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: one day, complete certainty. Yeah, I did a lot of asking. 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: I spoke to some The evening announcer at show Him 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: at the time was Clode Reshot, who was, you know, 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: a rather unusual announcer in that, you know, if you 42 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 3: just showed up in Montreal and listened to him. He 43 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: had a very thick French accent, but it just absolutely 44 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 3: worked for the city. But one of the things he 45 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 3: told me was that if you really want to be 46 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: on the radio, you really have to want it, And 47 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 3: that was the attitude that I took from that point 48 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: going forward. 49 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: Wasn't there another takeaway? Probably that you don't know if 50 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: you have something unless you ask. 51 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Actually, I remember a book by a Montreal physicist 52 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 3: sometime in the mid two thousands that came out, and 53 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 3: you know, if you want it, you ask for it, 54 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 3: and it was very simple physics that really, you know, 55 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: comes to mind. Whenever you want something, you actually have 56 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 3: to ask the universe for it, and it may or 57 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: may not deliver, and the worst answer you can be 58 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 3: delivered is no. 59 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time cracking the mic on 60 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: the air? 61 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 3: Absolutely? I don't know if I should count the one 62 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: at university at campus radio because it was a closed 63 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 3: circuit radio station. But the first time my voice went 64 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: out over the air whereby I was in charge of 65 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: the show was a six am in the month of 66 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 3: May of nineteen eighty nine in Kentville, Nova Scotia. The 67 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: radio station was Magic ninety seven point seven and it 68 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 3: broadcasts to the Annapolis Valley and it was early six 69 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: am on a Sunday morning, and they let me have 70 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 3: two hours of broadcast time until eight o'clock, when i'd 71 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: take over and do some tape programming instead of just 72 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: playing some records. 73 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: And do you remember the jitters when you first opened 74 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: your mouth? 75 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: I did not sleep the night before. And it's a Saturday, 76 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: and it's a college town, and will fill Nova Scotia. 77 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: I'll be a little quieter because it was the month 78 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: of May, and this was a summer job that I 79 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: was going to get. I think maybe I was going 80 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: to be make like seventy five dollars an hour, and 81 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: why would you take a summer job for seventy five 82 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: or I meant to say, I'd be taking a summer 83 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: job for seventy five dollars a shift, and why would 84 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: you take a summer job for that money? I said, Well, 85 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 3: I'll find a way to get on some all nights 86 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 3: and make it extend throughout the week. And I wound 87 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 3: up doing that. I got lucky enough to do that, 88 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: and it was one of the best summers I ever had, 89 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 3: was being on the radio. And eventually there were some 90 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 3: things that I could pick up. You can take the 91 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 3: Cruiser Oute and go out to a local bingo. There 92 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: was lots of farmers' markets and they always seem to 93 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 3: need help at the radio station. So I made a 94 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: summer job out of. 95 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: It, and I would imagine you learned another another lesson, 96 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: which was in order to advance up the ladder at places, 97 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: you need to put in your time. 98 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 3: I think just hanging around the radio station was going 99 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: to be enough for me. I was excited enough wherever 100 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: there was a microphone and a radio station. The Annapolis 101 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 3: Valley network of radio stations there were four stations, four ams, 102 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 3: all country in one FM that was playing pop music, 103 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: which I liked. But spending a summer in a farm 104 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: community and getting to know people was really the thing 105 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: that made me at one with the Annapolis Valley. I 106 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 3: actually wound up staying there for five years and at 107 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: the same time got a degree in political science and 108 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 3: history at Acadia University. And one thing about Nova Scotia 109 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 3: and Eastern Canada and the Maritimes, they have so much 110 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 3: in common with New England. In fact, the people their 111 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 3: favorite team is largely the Bruins. They love the Red 112 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 3: Sox more than they love the Toronto Blue Jays. They 113 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: go shopping there. Boston is the closest city to Nova Scotia. 114 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 3: We share a ferry. You can take it from Yarmouth 115 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: down to Portland. There's just so much in common. The 116 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: fishing and the culture is shared. So one of the 117 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: things I learned was not to talk too much about 118 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 3: the Canadians and the Leafs and maybe focus a little 119 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 3: bit more on the Red Sox and the Bruins. 120 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: That explains it all. Now, I didn't know that. 121 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 3: See well, I should have also pointed out they get 122 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 3: their television, at least at the time, they got their 123 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: television front from Bangor, Maine, and so the ads would 124 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 3: run and people would, you know, take Johnstown to Bangor 125 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 3: on shopping sprees, and you know this this shared culture. 126 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: And you cross the border between Kallis, Maine and Saint Stephen, 127 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 3: New Brunswick, and you take Highway nine all the way 128 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: through Backwood's, Maine and get on I ninety five and 129 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: then life's a party. 130 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: So what was the first move into a sort of 131 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: a management role for you, Well. 132 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: That didn't come till later. I went to Montreal after 133 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: Nova Scotia nineteen ninety two, and I got on at 134 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: Schom doing all nights, and here we are nineteen ninety two, 135 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four, some great years 136 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: of Monthol with the Canadians winning the Stanley Cup. The 137 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 3: expos were coming on and I was working at the 138 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: legendary show Me FM doing all nights. It was absolutely amazing. 139 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: And I suppose there was a managerial component at that 140 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: point because I was assistant music director shortly after, because 141 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: I knew how to work the I guess at the 142 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 3: time it was RCS or selector. I came with some experience. 143 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 3: I learned, worked in the music department, I learned how 144 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: it worked, and worked alongside Neil Kershner in the music department. 145 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: So I suppose that was really my first sort of 146 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: taste of radio management experience. And again, once you get 147 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: on the computer and you learn to program it, the 148 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: opportunities will come faster and more furious down the road. 149 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: Talk about some of the music of that era too, 150 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: that was moving Montreal in that market. 151 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: So Montreal is a very unique market as it is 152 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: between its Ango and it's Franco. I try to think 153 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: of where the roots the music are. It was Showme 154 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 3: was built on Genesis, and yes, King Crimson those long 155 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: instrumental songs really resonated with a Francophone population that was 156 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 3: very used to being in church, that was very used 157 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 3: to sitting through long orchestral pieces. A band like Styx, 158 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: who would have a hit with Sweet Madam Blue more 159 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: than any other market. Chris de Burgh Spanish Train just 160 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: absolutely resonates, and we would have American consultants come in 161 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: and take a look and say, why is Babe Ruth 162 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 3: the Mexican your tops testing song. Meanwhile, we would find 163 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: songs like Bad Company would sit towards the bottom. You 164 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 3: know that Midwestern hard rock American stuff didn't resonate as 165 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: well with what was predominantly a French Canadian audience. CHOM 166 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 3: had seventy percent French listeners. There's a lot of bilingual people, 167 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 3: but it wasn't uncommon that you would answer the request 168 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: line at Showman myl and they'd only know French, and 169 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: if you only knew English, you'd find a way to 170 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 3: understand that they really wanted to hear kiss rock and 171 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: roll all night? 172 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: And what about to stand by bands Rush and Triumph? 173 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 2: What did they mean to jump. 174 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 3: To show them? Those bands didn't resonate as well. Although 175 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: twenty one to twelve was popular. There was a bit 176 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 3: of a dividing line when it came to music in Canada, 177 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 3: and there still is to this day. I think and 178 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 3: know we have CanCon regulations whereby at the time it 179 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: was thirty percent Canadian content to be played on the radio. 180 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 3: Now it's thirty five percent. And I would often find 181 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 3: that the music would divide at the Ottawa River, so 182 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 3: somewhere in the middle of Ottawa the river runs, and 183 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 3: of course historically that's how Canada was anyway, Upper Canada 184 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 3: and Lower Canada as it were. Eventually it came together, 185 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: but a band like Triumph didn't necessarily do as well. 186 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: In Montreal. Rush would do well predominantly because of those 187 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: long orchestral songs, but it was really hit and miss 188 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 3: as to what would really resonate with this particular audience. 189 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: So what was your next move after that in your career? 190 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 3: Edmonton, which is a long way from Montreal. But I 191 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: was twenty four years old and offered a full time 192 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: job to do evenings and a swing shift at one 193 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 3: hundred point three. The Bear was an opportunity to work 194 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: with Standard Radio, which was led by Gary Slat. It 195 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 3: was a family company they had stations in every market, 196 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 3: and they had launched the Bear in nineteen ninety two, 197 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: and I guess I was part of year three of 198 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: that project and came in and I learned a lot 199 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: of things very quickly. Definitely, what i'll call Canadian radio 200 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: and hard rock radio was alive and well in comparison 201 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: to what was going on in Montreal, which is a 202 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: different brand of radio altogether. But I also learned about 203 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 3: the writing and how to write for radio. So whether 204 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 3: it was doing a six o'clock rock report with Jeff Woods, 205 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 3: whether it was you know, constructing you know, bits for air, 206 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: you know, how to be a reverent trying to aim 207 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: higher with your comedy and your humor. It was a 208 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: much different game. In Edmonton. There were more radio stations 209 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: on the market. There's at the time, I think there 210 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 3: were about ten or eleven FM radio stations that you 211 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: were fighting with with in comparison to Montreal. Whether it 212 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: was like sort of a split between English and French, 213 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 3: you know, radio stations. There were really only three FM 214 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 3: Montreal radio stations, so there's lots of pie to choose from. 215 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: So I learned what it was like to be in 216 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 3: a competitive market. I learned what it was like to 217 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 3: get to know a new city, which was very different 218 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 3: from Montreal. I think my first year it was it 219 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: was tough. It was tough to find a good place 220 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: to eat. I mean, the food in Montreal is fantastic, 221 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 3: and in Edmonton it was it was quite different. Once 222 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: I got all past that and realized how great work was, 223 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 3: I spent again a lot of time at work, living learning. 224 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: I learned to really work with record labels, learned how 225 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: to work at a national level and to report in 226 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 3: and to Eventually I got my rains on, I got 227 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: my hands on the reins of the music department, and 228 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 3: I was the music director there right through until two 229 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: thousand and one. But it was artists, relationships, bands, how 230 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: to interview a band, how to do an afternoon drive show. 231 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: Eventually when I got promoted there and interview the band 232 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 3: and manage all these extra balls in there. It was 233 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 3: really probably the most fun I ever had doing radio, 234 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 3: going out to concerts at night. And this is the 235 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: nineties where there's a lot of grunge music, there's also 236 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 3: a lot of sort of borderline pop music that charts 237 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 3: well and does well. Bands like Semi Sonic and collective 238 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 3: soul and sort of learning how to manage a playlist, 239 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 3: how to go up against a classic rock radio station, 240 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: learning to read the trades and follow along and then 241 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 3: come to some decisions and you know, get some local 242 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 3: wins as well. 243 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 4: And so you were there till the early two thousands. 244 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: You said yeah, and then it was back to Show Them. 245 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 4: I was couldn't pass up an opportunity. The company that 246 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 4: I was working for, Standard Radio, wound up buying Show 247 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 4: Them in Montreal, and they said, would you like to 248 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 4: go back and do this? And I said, absolutely I would, 249 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 4: and so I went back with this time it was 250 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 4: owned by Standard. I think the first few, you know, 251 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 4: weeks were a little difficult. There were some people that 252 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 4: I knew and some friends that I had made from 253 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 4: the previous incarnation who were being let go and that 254 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 4: was sad to see. But at the same time, you know, 255 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 4: I had the next four years there. We had to 256 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 4: relaunch SHOWM. It needed to be repackaged, we needed to 257 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 4: put a shine on it. And there was a lot 258 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 4: of people, you know, like Blair Bartram who went on 259 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 4: to work at Mix ninety nine in Toronto, you know 260 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 4: who you know, helped we brought Terry Demante back to 261 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 4: the morning show. He was over on talk radio CJD. 262 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: So we were really rebuilding and putting the shine back 263 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 3: on a legendary Montreal radio station. And that was really 264 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 3: a lot of fun to be a part of. And 265 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: in that relaunch period of two thousand and two, you know, 266 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 3: we saw a nice jump of about twenty to twenty 267 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: five percent. I felt we repatriated the audience quite well. 268 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 3: And from there it wasn't too difficult a job just 269 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 3: to manage this great radio station because Montrealers loved it 270 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: and I loved it, and it was a great time, 271 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: great period. 272 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: And how long were you able to stay there? 273 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 3: Till two thousand and six, so it was four years. 274 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 3: There was a little struggle that I had inside the company. 275 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 3: I wasn't officially programmed director. They said, you take care 276 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 3: of shom but there was always one program director to 277 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: sort over see three other radio stations, so I was 278 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 3: really doing a strong management job. They said, we'll look 279 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: for a programming job for you in the company. That 280 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 3: never came about, unfortunately, and by two thousand and six 281 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: I was offered an opportunity to move to Winnipeg to 282 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 3: work for course Radio who had a flamethrower of a 283 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: radio station called Power ninety seven, and I jumped at 284 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: that opportunity. I thought it was a good one to make. 285 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 3: I kind of rationalized it in my head. I sort 286 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: of counted out the number of people in Montreal. There 287 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 3: were seven hundred and fifty thousand anglophone English speaking Montrealers 288 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 3: and that's the exact number of people in Winnipeg. So 289 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: I thought, ah, I can justify that move. 290 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: And so what did you learn from that? You know 291 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: that next move? What were the key takeaways as a 292 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: manager that you took from that. 293 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: I think the best part was having a morning show 294 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: that was ready to roll really really helped, and it 295 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 3: allowed me to really focus on the first hundred days. 296 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 3: So Ross Winters, who hired me, we said, let's really 297 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: focus on your first hundred days and what you're going 298 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: to be doing and the tone that's going to be 299 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: set and the expectations that you want your staff to have. 300 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: And in that period without really doing too much, a 301 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 3: couple of people left, and I think they really liked 302 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 3: the old regime and maybe felt that they would become 303 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 3: a little bit more accountable with me in there. Now, 304 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 3: I don't want to say these people. These people actually 305 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: wound up coming back, which I found to be a 306 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: little bit funny. Down the road, I wound up rehiring 307 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: them and they needed to go off and do some things. 308 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 3: But I always think the first year when you come 309 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: into a new management role is not to do too 310 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: much at once. What we really want to do is 311 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: we want to bring what worked back in the other 312 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 3: market into the new market. I much prefer to do 313 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: a nice, quiet lap around the track, do one year, 314 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 3: see what it's like, really get a feel, ask them 315 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 3: why they do things in this particular way, what's the 316 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: experience like? Speaking to people and listening is just so 317 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: important that in that first year, I mean, listen, it's 318 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 3: obvious you make a change, You just make the change. 319 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: But the rest of it really does come down to listening, 320 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 3: because you really can't fall into a trap of bringing 321 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 3: some ideas from an old market into a new one 322 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: and then finding out they don't work and then you're 323 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 3: a little further behind the eight ball than when you 324 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 3: really started. 325 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: I have to think during all these periods, you as 326 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: a keen observer of media and certainly radio in the US, 327 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: that you were keeping your eye on some radio stations 328 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: and sort of you know, checking them out and getting 329 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: inspired by him. 330 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: Who were some of those stations that inspired you in 331 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: the US? 332 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: KISW in Seattle, and I think there was a Canadian 333 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 3: connection at the time. You know, Kathy Faulkner, who I 334 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 3: recently had on my show, was working under Steve Young, 335 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: who had a Winnipeg connection. And so many of the 336 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 3: people that I'd worked with in Canada, including JJ Johnson 337 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 3: and Terry Demonte, They'd all worked through Winnipeg and worked 338 00:17:54,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: under Steve brother Jake Edwards. Steve touched so many Canadian 339 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 3: broadcasters it is incredible. And so that was one station 340 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: we would always keep our eye on, or keep our 341 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: ear on anyway to see what they were doing in 342 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 3: the playlist, whether it was promotions and whatnot. I myself 343 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 3: being from Montreal, the closest stations from there are down 344 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 3: in Boston, so I'd always keep my ear to WAAF, WBCN. 345 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 3: These were stations I felt had a lot to do with, 346 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 3: you know, Montreal and the alternative scene, and it was 347 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 3: a great place to pick up ideas and records. But 348 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 3: you know, wherever I traveled in America, I would always 349 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: listen to, you know, to great radio wherever I could 350 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 3: find it. I think Mark and Brian at KLOS, that's 351 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 3: when we would just ask for you know, air checks 352 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: for just for the morning show, just so they could 353 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 3: listen to hear what they were doing. And so I 354 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 3: was a big proponent of getting air checks from other markets. 355 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 3: And even it was just oh well, let's see what 356 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 3: Detroit's doing this week, and you know WCSX, it's a 357 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 3: classic rock radio station. Let me just hear the imaging, 358 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: let me hear how what songs are starting off the 359 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: hour with. It can be really simple stuff. It didn't 360 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: necessarily have to be a radio station, you know, of 361 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 3: a like format. And then when there was some you know, 362 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 3: really when there was some really irreverence stuff, we really 363 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: wanted to pay attention to what the power pig was doing. 364 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 3: Just what's that noise all about? And where did that 365 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 3: lead to? I mean, that was that was some attitude 366 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 3: ERADCHR that you know later on in nineteen ninety seven, 367 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 3: ninety eight, ninety nine, that was really you know, attitude 368 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 3: era for rock radio. So you could still go back 369 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: and listen to that stuff and pick up and add 370 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 3: that to your radio station. At the time. 371 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: So how did you come up with the vision of 372 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: what you're currently doing today, which you know is a 373 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: conglomeration of a few different things. 374 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: How did you create that vision? 375 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 3: I didn't mean to. Actually it started by getting fired 376 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 3: and I got restructured. There was nothing really crazy about 377 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: it other than I was making a very nice, you know, paycheck, 378 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 3: and you know, for Winnipeg, that was probably a little 379 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: bit too much money. And so here I was. It 380 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: was twenty fourteen. 381 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 2: It was the. 382 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: It was actually the twenty fifth anniversary of that day 383 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 3: that I mentioned earlier on on our walk when I 384 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 3: first took to the air, you know, that very first 385 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 3: nerve racking day, twenty fifth anniversary, and I got fired 386 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 3: and I said, well, I guess that's the universe that 387 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: would time that out just absolutely perfectly. But now I 388 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 3: went and I had some offers to go back into radio, 389 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 3: and they were in places like Regina. There was an 390 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: opportunity in Calgary. It really wasn't going to be a 391 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 3: good fit for my kids to be moving at that point, 392 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 3: and I thought, wait a second, let's just stop. What's 393 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 3: happening here. There's so much incredible audio that is being created, 394 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 3: whether it was going to be voiceover, whether it was 395 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 3: going to be on the Internet, whether it was going 396 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: to be you know, in podcasting. So much of it 397 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 3: was being created, and you know, if radio was going 398 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 3: to demand a bit less of it, that's okay, I'll 399 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 3: find a way to create some more audio. So I 400 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 3: took my voice over business and move that into a 401 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 3: more formal structure. No longer was it going to be 402 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: just something I would do and you know the off hours, 403 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 3: you know, after five o'clock. It was something that I 404 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: was going to Okay, let's incorporate the business. Let's really 405 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: be serious about it. And I had a lot of 406 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 3: people who called me up for some radio consulting, of 407 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: which I did that for two years, and that was 408 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 3: a that was a fun experience to go through. The 409 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: hard part I found was trying to find the business. 410 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 3: And you know, there are so many great radio consultants 411 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 3: out there and people that you can that you can 412 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 3: find out. I'm not sure that I would have been 413 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: the one to necessarily go and you know, eke my 414 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 3: way into into that particular market. And whether it was 415 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 3: going to be a talent coach or whether it was 416 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: going to be to fix your radio station. But it 417 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 3: was a trip to podcast movement. Actually it wasn't. It 418 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 3: was a trip to the conclave in twenty sixteen where 419 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: I I made a commitment to what's see what American 420 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: radio's doing. There's not as much action happening in Canada. 421 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 3: They're going through some cuts. There's just one conference that 422 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 3: takes place every year that's really major. That's in Toronto. 423 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 3: It's surrounded by Canadian Music Week and the music industry. 424 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 3: Let me go see what they're doing down in Minneapolis. 425 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 3: And went down there and it was an eye opening 426 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 3: experience to find out what was going on. I said, 427 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: you know, this is kind of a nice thing that's 428 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 3: going on where there's some mentoring and people helping out. 429 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 3: I think I'm going to start a podcast. And I 430 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: started a podcast and I said, what am I going 431 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 3: to start a podcast about? It turns out the only 432 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 3: thing I really knew was radio. And I thought, oh, 433 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: you know, Larry Gifford has a podcast called Radio Stuff, 434 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 3: and I don't want to all right, I'll just do 435 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: one too. And so I did one, and I said, well, 436 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 3: I'll do it every week. I made the commitment after 437 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 3: about the first year to do it every week, and 438 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 3: can we find a way to bottle the excitement that 439 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 3: we're having at a radio conference and share it. Fifty 440 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 3: two weeks that was the goal, and a couple of 441 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 3: weeks later I wound up going to the podcast movement 442 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 3: in Chicago and I thought, oh's a lot of people 443 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 3: here with microphones who are doing things, and I didn't 444 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: understand what they were doing with it all. It kind 445 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 3: of reminded me of pond hockey where there's a stick 446 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: in a puck and people were just skating around and 447 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 3: there's no boards. And said, well, I can keep the 448 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 3: puck on my stick through all this because I know 449 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: audio and microphones and recording quite well. When I find 450 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 3: the goal, I'll pick a shot and score. So that 451 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 3: was the thinking. A lot of it was just you know, 452 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: trying it, hanging around asking questions, you know, what program 453 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: do you think we need to do for this and 454 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: this particular thing. It could have been the five minutes 455 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 3: after just talking with Mark Ramsey, who at one point 456 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: had consulted you know, the radio station I was at, 457 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 3: and he said, you know, you really should get off SoundCloud. 458 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 3: And I said, oh, yeah, that's not good, is it? 459 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: So I went and found another home for that. It 460 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: could be the ten minutes I spent talking to Jeff Schmidt, 461 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 3: who is longtime imaging producer at k FOG in San Francisco. 462 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 3: He says, you know, your show's a little bit loud, 463 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: it's overcompressed. I thought, oh, it's a headphone experience. Yeah, 464 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 3: we're gonna have to fix that. SOT. I got there 465 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: through a lot of a lot of help from talking 466 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 3: to a lot of people. But I spent you know, 467 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 3: a fair amount of time by myself thinking about stuff, 468 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 3: but nothing really changed until I left the house to 469 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 3: go off and meet people and find out that there's 470 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 3: a whole world of audio out there and people willing 471 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: to share and help and help create great audio. 472 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: So what's the state of. 473 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: Audio slash radio in Canada versus the US? What do 474 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: you see in Canada that maybe we're not seeing in 475 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: the US trend wise. 476 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: So one element I'm looking at is podcast advertising, and 477 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 3: we're just not there yet. Adians are a little bit 478 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: more conservative. They're not really ready to spend and move 479 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 3: into the podcast area to make that dedication to it. 480 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: Let's say a particular podcast host to do a midroll ad. 481 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 3: The programmatic side of things. It can be very very bizarre. Uh, 482 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 3: if you wanted to fill that those programmatic spots, you'll 483 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 3: actually find that if you get downloads in the States, 484 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 3: those will fill at one hundred percent. Meanwhile, your Canadian audience, 485 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: there's not enough of it to fill. We just don't 486 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 3: have the number of advertisers who are committed as of yet. 487 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 3: I really do hope that that that is something that 488 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 3: changes in the future. Canadian radio as a whole. I 489 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 3: think they've got something that they're paying attention to right now, 490 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: and that's you know, how does Canadian radio stay Canadian 491 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: in this day and age of me being able to 492 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: roll over and ask to listen to one oh seven 493 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 3: point one the peak out of Westchester, which happened this morning, 494 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 3: But how does Canadian radio compete against that? And you know, 495 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 3: for years we could rely on you know, government legislation 496 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 3: to make sure the thirty five percent Canadian music would 497 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 3: be played. But you know, right now they just passed 498 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: something called the Broadcast Streaming Act. It's called Bill C eleven, 499 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,239 Speaker 3: and the c RTC, which governs this sort of thing, 500 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: has to figure out how they're going to be able 501 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: to roll rules into the Internet without roll ling any 502 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,239 Speaker 3: rules into the Internet, because I'm not sure you can 503 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 3: tell any of these tech companies exactly what to do. 504 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 3: And I think that's going to be a struggle for 505 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 3: the next you know, three or four years as Canadians 506 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 3: try to find a way to you know, keep it 507 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 3: Canadian as it were on the Internet. And at the 508 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 3: same time, listen, you know, my show is is consciously 509 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 3: making sure that we get American listeners. And I started 510 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 3: my podcast, I said, I want at least half the 511 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 3: audience to be American. This is you know, we're in 512 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 3: a We're in a global world. Radio is certainly global, 513 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: so is podcasting. And you know, I think you need 514 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 3: to create something to export more than anything. If you want, 515 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: I want something Canadian to be great, you should. It 516 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 3: should be exportable. Neil Young we managed to export that 517 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 3: that content. I mean, some of the greats, you know, 518 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 3: Canadian things, you know, get exported. And I think a 519 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 3: lot of YouTubers were very, very leery of any government 520 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 3: interference that would stop Americans or anybody around the world 521 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 3: from you know, checking out their YouTube channels. So when 522 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 3: there was discussion of this Broadcast Act, there was a 523 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 3: lot of blowback from people saying don't touch anything. I'm 524 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 3: doing just well, thank you very much. And I don't 525 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 3: need any government legislation to keep me Canadian because I'm 526 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 3: doing just fine. So this is something that is very difficult. 527 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 3: And this extends, by the way, to move into movie makers, 528 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: so to you know, people who make movie content, and 529 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 3: it extends to you know, Netflix, and should Netflix be 530 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 3: paying into the Canadian Fund for Canadians to make you know, 531 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 3: whether it's audio content or video content. So these are 532 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 3: very very interesting times to see how far government can 533 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 3: really reach into to legislate culture. 534 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: Are Canadian broadcasters investing in talent differently than US broadcasters? 535 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely? So. The Canadian broadcast industry has very very much 536 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: been very close. There are initiatives such as Starmaker. There 537 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: are initiatives such as as Factor that have been trying 538 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: to grow Canadian music for years. Really when I say music, 539 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 3: but they're really trying to grow their own Canadian content 540 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 3: because if you have to fill thirty percent of the playlist, 541 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 3: I mean, if I bring it back to nineteen seventy one, 542 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: when the first Canadian content was rolled out, radio stations 543 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: had nothing. The guess who maybe Anne Marie there wasn't 544 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 3: a whole heck of a lot out there. And if 545 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 3: we look at you know, even a band like Rush, 546 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: I mean it took an American. It took Donna Halper 547 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: at WMMS to you with that record on and play 548 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 3: it and it sounded like the New Zeppelin. And you know, 549 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: eventually that was sort of like the roots of Rush 550 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 3: getting started. So it's very complicated, this idea of creating 551 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: a a you know, a star system. But you know, 552 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 3: I mentioned Canadian Music Week, which takes place in Toronto 553 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 3: and it's where the industry industry gathers. But it's very 554 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 3: very close and Canadians work very hard together to create 555 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 3: you know, Canadian content because you know, we're in it together. 556 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: So what's your position on artificial intelligence and the radio industry. 557 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not going to be a popular one, 558 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: I don't think the way I think about it. I 559 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 3: have heard some breaks driving across on my trips between 560 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 3: you know, Wisconsin and and all the way back to 561 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: Sue Saint Marie and up to Canada, and I've heard 562 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: some breaks that could probably really use some artificial intelligence. 563 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 3: They just you know, some of it can be so 564 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 3: rudimentary that it can be taken care of, you know, 565 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,959 Speaker 3: in that you know area. But when it comes to personality, 566 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 3: the personality is always going to win. You got to 567 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 3: meet someone, it's I mean, it's it's on air, online 568 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: and in person. You know, you got your air attack, 569 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 3: you got your ground attack, you got your online attack. 570 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: AI is not going to be able to go and 571 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: shake hands with you out and about in the community. 572 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 3: So I think we're probably we're gonna have a lot 573 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 3: in the end, We're going to have better personalities. We're 574 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: gonna have much stronger radio personalities, but we may find 575 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 3: that there are fewer of them. 576 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: How do Canadian broadcasters incubate new ideas? Do they have 577 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: a process that maybe US broadcasters could learn from. 578 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 3: No, No, it's it's actually quite disappointing. Sometime in the 579 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 3: in the two thousands, what happened was the phone companies 580 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 3: began to take over Canadian radio and a cable company 581 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 3: as it were. So, you know, I'll just point the 582 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 3: finger at Rod, Course and Bell, which are three stations, 583 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 3: three companies that own the majority of the radio stations. 584 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 3: Another one is called sting Ray, which is kind of 585 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 3: sort of in that boat. But you know, in twenty thirteen, 586 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 3: I began to get worried. I saw at Canadian Music Week, 587 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 3: which you know, gathering of radio people and music people. 588 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 3: I didn't see radio really coming together to help what 589 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: was going on. And this could have been it could 590 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 3: have been the radio rags. The radio rags needed to 591 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: be updated. They didn't update these things for twenty five 592 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 3: plus years, and they just got they're just getting to 593 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 3: it now with the passing of this legislation. But there 594 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 3: are things that they should have been doing to really 595 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 3: fix the product a long time ago. But these places 596 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 3: are not run by radio people. They're run by phone companies, 597 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 3: and a company like Bell owns radio stations to sell 598 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 3: phones and promote their TV shows and promote some of 599 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 3: the other things they have going on. And that may 600 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 3: sound a little bit cold, but it's kind of true. 601 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 3: When you look at the you know, what's coming out 602 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 3: of the radio, there's not a lot of shared ideas 603 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: until they were really forced to get together to talk 604 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 3: about maybe we should really revisit what constitutes Canadian content. 605 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 3: And so it has been disappointing for many years to 606 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 3: see this going on, to see companies working in fiftoms 607 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 3: not necessarily getting together as much to discuss how it 608 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 3: could be better. I think they're under tremendous, tremendous juress. 609 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 3: I think on the digital side, because the CBC does 610 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: have a lot of money. It's CBC is a public entity. 611 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: They've put a lot of money into digital. They've done 612 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 3: digital very well, but it's also been at the best 613 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 3: of a lot of other private broadcasters who've tried to 614 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 3: do digital and haven't really managed to do it as well. 615 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: It's tough to come together in Canada. We're very far 616 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 3: apart from one another. There are successful stations and successful 617 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 3: markets with stations that do very well, but as a whole, 618 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 3: there's not a lot of getting together, getting all the 619 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 3: radio people around the table to really talk about how 620 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 3: it could be better. That may be changing as this 621 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 3: online streaming act comes together, but by and large it's 622 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 3: we've really been looking to the US and to Europe 623 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 3: for what the possibilities are. 624 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: Matt, can you share some of your key learnings for 625 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: the audience as a podcaster that might be transferable to 626 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: other podcasters. 627 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. So, if you're thinking about starting a podcast, start 628 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 3: the podcast, be prepared to make the mistakes, and it's 629 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: okay to make the mistakes and to go through the 630 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 3: process of well that was really the wrong title. Well, 631 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 3: I'm not really sure that sounded perfectly. Your first five 632 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 3: episodes are not going to be very good, and it's 633 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: not that they're terrible, it's just that it's not going 634 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 3: to be your vision of what you want your podcast 635 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 3: to be right away. It will get better week after 636 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,959 Speaker 3: week and you're after a year, Can you release consistently? 637 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 3: That would also help because then you can sort of 638 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 3: establish a little bit of a ground game with your audience, 639 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 3: who would get into the wonderful habit of listening to 640 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 3: your show. There's something to be said about being consistent. 641 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 3: The morning show on the radio is there every day 642 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 3: at a particular time. The Love Boat always aired at 643 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 3: eight o'clock on a Saturday night, followed by Fantasy Island. 644 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 3: You're creating a media habit when you're doing a podcast. 645 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 3: So stany into contact with your listener and let them 646 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 3: know when the episode is going to be out and 647 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: be available, and really stick to it because they're going 648 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 3: to count on you to put out the show and 649 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 3: you want to be able to put it out for 650 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 3: them on time. Don't fuss too much about downloads, and 651 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 3: if you only got one hundred downloads, that's fine. If 652 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 3: you got fifty, that's fine. And I think you have 653 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 3: to ask yourself, if you were given the opportunity to 654 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 3: speak to fifty people once a week at a particular time, 655 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 3: you probably take that opportunity if it were in person. 656 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 3: So continue to take the opportunity with your podcast. If 657 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 3: it's just getting fifty downloads, you know a week great insights. 658 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 3: You always pass it on and you pay it forward. 659 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 3: I appreciate you being on Taking a Walk Matt very much. Thanks. 660 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 3: You know, if we're any other year, I'd be spending 661 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 3: my summer in Prout Snack, Maine, and I would have 662 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,439 Speaker 3: made the drive down to see it and we would 663 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 3: have had the walk down in Boston. 664 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple podcast, 665 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.