WEBVTT - Lab 014: Art of Con 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.280 It's hard to know who to trust these days. Man. 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:04.720 Listen, I'm sticking with my A one day ones. 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:07.160 No one is out here telling the truth. I feel like, 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.120 no matter what, it could even be something as honest 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:14.480 looking as a charity, and you have to start questioning, well, 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:15.520 where is this money going? 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.560 Who's really going to be held accountable. There's been some 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:23.160 conversation at least on my timeline recently, yes, about people 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:27.560 raising money, what happens to it? And you know, I 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:32.240 love a good juicy political thriller, So whether it's real 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:34.920 life or it's something i'm watching on Netflix, I'm like, 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:36.760 follow the money, what happens. 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.879 He's a kid a real life House of Cards over here. 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.400 She loves that stuff. Yes, she's an investigator. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.920 I know we've talked about robo calls in the past. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.440 We have now there is the GoFundMe. You got to 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.080 double check and check and make sure you know someone 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.400 who knows the creator of the gofund me to make 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:56.040 sure it's real. 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.760 Right. Fishing scams like where It'll be You'll see an 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.400 email and it'll look like it's from Apple because they're like, oh, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.280 confirm your email address here, which is a normal email 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.200 that all of us get from all types of places, right, 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.120 and then next thing you know, everything is hacked. Like, 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.520 next thing you know, like your own mama gonna show 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.600 up to your door talk about something. Can I borrow 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.039 fifty dollars? The next thing you know, it's not her, 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:18.840 it's a hologram. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:21.639 It's a hologram. Hologram. Spam is next. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.640 I'm t T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify Studios. 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:26.240 This is dope. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:45.199 Last, it feels like every where you look there's a scam, 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.039 or there's a you know, or somebody's trying to catch 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.840 you up in something and you gotta have your guard up. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.320 We could talk about a lot of things. Actually we 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:56.400 can talk about Takashi six y nine. Yeah, tee it 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:57.840 up for the people as a kid, tell them what's 0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:58.800 going on with Takashi. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:04.080 Listen, Takashi is out here dry snitching. Okay. I got nervous. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.960 I was like, is he gonna say something about me 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:08.200 that I. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.360 Feel like is a huge scam because before he became 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.079 a rapper, he was just a normal kid. 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.320 He was a regular guy. Then he puts on this 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.520 other persona that lends him some credibility, and then he 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:24.080 starts calling out Jim Jones and Cardi B. And Cardi B, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.320 and I know they have to feel like they've been 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.760 wrapped up in a scam exactly. You imagine minding your 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.880 business and then all of a sudden, somebody's bringing your 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:35.560 name up in front of a judge and to be 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.960 snitched on by somebody like Takashi six ' nine with 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.160 rainbow teeth. Jim Jones and Chrissy had a whole TV show, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.240 and he managed not to snitch on himself, right, and 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:46.840 then you come up here and be reckless. 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.600 It's crazy. You know who I think is the biggest 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:56.320 scammer right now? All of these TV moms like Aunt 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.400 Becky and Felicity Huffman who are out here scam the 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.519 college admissions process to get their kids into the college 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:09.239 of their choice. And Becky was out here staging crew photos. 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.200 If you need a set designer for your college application, 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:14.760 you got to ask yourself some questions. 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:16.400 Maybe that isn't the college for you. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.800 So I feel like we've touched on this a little 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:19.400 bit before. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.440 Yeah, in Lab three lighting me with our guest, Yamaday House, 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.880 but we kind of talked more about why people lie 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.280 and why people scam Today, we're flipping it on its 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:31.920 head and we're saying, why do. 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.600 You keep getting calm? Why do you keep going for 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:36.640 these same scams? 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.400 Exactly? And I think this is important for everyone. So 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.200 pull up a chair, turn the volume all the. 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.360 Way up, and dive in with us. Let's get into 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.560 the recitation. So this really got us thinking, right, we 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.320 started talking about scams and spam and catfishing. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.880 Catfishing is another huge thing, these romantic scams. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.440 Yes, and when you really think about it, I try 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.160 to distill it down to like, what's the motivating factor here? 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.160 What's driving the person that's doing the scamming, and what 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:08.960 drives us to fall for the scam? 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.520 Right? Is it like a specific type of person that 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.800 falls for these scams or a specific type of person 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:16.200 that is doing the scamming? 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.720 How do you tell if something is a scam or not? 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.360 Who falls for scam A but not scam B. Who's 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.560 gonna fall for in person scam versus an online scam? 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.400 I'm not falling for an in person scam. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.240 I feel like I would never fall for an in 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.960 person scam. I'm too, You're skeptical of every exactly I'm 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:35.680 like I wake up in the morning, I roll over 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.560 look at my husband. I'm like, is that you for real? 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.360 And like for us, I think I'm savvy on the internet, 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.479 but I also know that I was on AOL chat 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.480 rooms like age Sex Language. Anybody want to meet me 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:50.040 at the carnival? 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.480 Yeah, I was definitely. I was what I probably like 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.640 eleven and saying I was like fifteen or sixteen. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.640 So you have been a scammer for a while? Yes, wow, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:04:59.680 do you didn't even hesitate? 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.359 Yeah? I mean because if you ever scammed me never, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.840 I could never you would tell it if. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:10.080 You did, and you bet not let me out. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:12.120 Episode. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.040 Oh my god, it'll be the last episode. Lord, No, wun't. 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:21.040 She would never let me live that down. Okay, so 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.960 let's get into the dissection. Our guest today is doctor 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:24.960 Losana Harris. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.520 I'm a social neuroscientist, which means I study social behavior 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:30.080 and brain. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.600 Doctor Harris is an Associate Professor of Experimental psychology at 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:35.279 University College in London. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:39.320 His work focuses on what's called person perception or social perception, 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.479 which is all about how humans process each other. And 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.080 this is really important to understand, right because when it 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.120 comes to scams. We need to know how we decide 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:50.520 to trust somebody or not. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.400 You look at things like audios, so how do people's 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.520 voices sound, things like smiles, the sort of chemical communication 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:02.520 that happens between people, and measure people's responses in terms 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:03.680 of their physiologies. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.880 And by physiology, he means things like facial muscle movements, sweat, 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.800 heart rate, hormones, or brain activity. Measuring those things can 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.080 indicate whether someone is anxious or nervous, for example. 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.440 But doctor Harris isn't just studying how people process each other. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.719 He's also interested in how person perception affects the decisions 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:22.360 we make. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.279 Until we look at things like moral decision making, legal 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.599 decision making, financial decision making. And then the majority of 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.920 those studies we use sort of classic economic games where 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:37.680 we put people in competitive or cooperative situations with others 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:39.920 and just look at the kinds of decisions they need. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.400 And you're probably wondering, how can we relate this back 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.680 to con artists? Right, So, as we're talking about con 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.320 artists and those that are being con there are some 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.400 interesting context here because in essence, a con artist is 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.200 using these ideas of person perception to basically con their victim. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.360 They know that their victim will be processing them and 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.039 making decison visions based on that processing, and then they 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:07.200 use that to manipulate the victim. But I don't really 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:08.200 understand how. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.080 This brings us to social cognition, which doctor Harris studies 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.240 is something you and I do every single day, and 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.120 it basically allows us to interact with each other. Is 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.600 the process of figuring out what's in someone else's head. 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:21.680 I don't know if I want to be in your head. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.840 There's a lot of tabs open man, fifty tabs and 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:34.040 fifty windows, and all those tabs represent my thoughts, feelings, emotions, 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:35.080 goals or desires. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.480 Now, if you think about it, that's a very difficult 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.480 thing to do, because I could never see your mind, right, 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.240 I could never see your thoughts. I have to infer 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.320 them from your behaviors. And in order to do that, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.880 I have to crunch a lot of information. I have 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.480 to crunch a lot of numbers. I have to put 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.160 together lots of statistical information. And that leads me to 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.760 make a guess about your internal state, your mind, what's 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:58.440 on your mind. 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.880 And this idea of so cognition really shifted how scientists 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.000 thought about decision making. Historically, economists thought that people just 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.960 made decisions based off of their own self interest, so 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.320 basically what they could do to get themselves ahead. So 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.080 it's a situation that involves money, then you're just going 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.880 to do whatever yields the most profit, and that was 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:25.600 considered the rational line of thinking. But if the decision 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.000 involves another person, it's not that straightforward. 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.840 And lots of psychological and behavioral economic research has shown 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:36.680 that people aren't rational in their decision making and social factors. 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.640 And when I say social factors, I mean other people 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.760 or the different motivations or goals people have really biased 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.360 their decision making and directions where it appears not to 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:48.040 be rational. 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.559 That's interesting, right, because I think when I think of cons, 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.360 I think of them always being about money. And when 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.760 you think about cons that are about money, if it's 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.000 just like are you going to pick up this extra 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.840 dollar on the ground, that feels easy, Like the rational 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.760 decision is yes, I'm gonna pick it up, and I'm 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.400 gonna have some more money in my pocket. Right, But 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.680 if I have to pull the dollar out of somebody's pocket, 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.760 ooh man, that's a little different. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:10.920 It's a little different. 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:11.320 Right. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.959 And so what you've seen a lot of financial decision 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.360 making involving other people or Wendy social factors are relevant 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:22.000 is that people will often for goal money in order 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.360 to do things that are consistent with social and moral rules, 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:26.600 goals and values. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.040 My league had a podcast recently about getting your finances 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.520 in order and all this stuff, and she talks about 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.679 people that feel peer pressure to spend money because other 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.640 people are spending money even if they know they don't 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:37.920 have it. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:39.160 I don't know that emotion. 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.200 No, So, like if you're all out and everybody's like, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:45.640 well we're gonna go out, We're gonna do rounds with drinks. 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.240 And she was saying, you should just say I only 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:48.839 have fifty dollars a night. Now, that doesn't mean you 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.920 shouldn't have additional rounds, but that's all I'm going to 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.800 be spending, right, even that, right, the people you're around, like, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:59.800 you find what are the social norms around the situation? Right, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.240 So people may be like I'm having the lobster. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:09.120 You know, you're like, I'll have the chicken tenders, but 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.120 now you can't. You feel like you can't get chicken 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.480 tenders because if so and so is getting the lobster, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.880 and you're like, okay, so is that kind of nice? 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.120 Is that that's what we're doing? Okay, I guess I'm 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:20.280 having the lobster too. 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.080 And what we and others have been arguing is that 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.120 while those social decisions are actually rational, it's just that 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.640 you care about something else. You don't care about maximizing 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.160 financial profit. You care about things like maintaining social relationships, 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.920 for instance, or you care things that you care about, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.200 things like your reputation. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.800 So our behaviors can be based on self interest, but 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.280 if another person is involved, our decisions may be a 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.000 little more socially minded. Why is that? 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.160 What we learned from doctor Harris is that our decision 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.200 making is really dependent on our motivations. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.600 Our motivations are the things that drive us to do 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.160 what we do, and they're not always the same. 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.320 And so what could be happening is that those motives 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:05.319 become dominant or salient in those situations because those motives 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.600 are primary. Right as we evolved as a species, those 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.079 were the things that basically drove our evolution. So our 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.640 evolution was driven because human beings are what we call 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.800 a hypersocial species more than almost any other species. We 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:21.240 depend on other people. 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:26.240 In general, there is a range of motives about three 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.720 to ten that drive human behavior, but doctor Harris uses 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.760 one set of theory that talks about five of them. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:40.559 Belonging, understanding human beings, like to know why particular things happen. Control, 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:42.600 You want to feel like you're not just sort of 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.599 randomly going through life, but you're making decisions and you 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.960 have some type of agency in your decision making what 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.480 is called self enhancement. So we're motivated to feel good 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.400 in general, to have this sort of positive feeling about ourselves. Right, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.559 we want to feel valued and loved and respected. And 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.320 then trustworthiness is the fifth one. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.960 Let's kind of just hone in on two motives. 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.720 Yeah, so for this episode, we're going to focus on 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.240 the need to belong and the need to trust. 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.720 And so I think when you have these types of 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.040 cons they usually take advantage of these motives that people have. 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.320 They tap into these deficits of particular pasts might have 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.400 in terms of belonging or trusting, for instance, and they 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.400 exploit that for financial benefit. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.800 I thought one that doctor Harris hit on that was 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.120 most interesting to me was trustworthiness, and he explained that 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.840 as our need to trust others. 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.000 And I feel like that falls directly in line with 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.719 the GoFundMe stuff. So when we think about go fund me, 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.319 it's not just oh, I'm giving money to just anybody, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.520 somebody that I don't know. The people who are putting 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.400 out these gofundmes they really put like a real personal 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.520 touch on it where you feel really connected to them. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.040 So then you're more likely to give because it kind 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.680 of tugs at your heart's You don't want them to 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.360 be lying about little Timmy needing a new heart. You 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.640 want to trust them, Like I'm not going to go 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.760 into that thinking that I'm being scammed. I'm going to 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.720 go into that thinking I'm being a good person and 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.320 donate my twenty dollars. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.839 When you go to a restaurant, you don't worry that 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.920 they're putting poison in your food, right, the thought never 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.960 crosses your mind because of that motivation to trust people. 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.160 And so that's how we typically function. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.640 That's why I could never do that, like dining in 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.840 the dark stuff, I just don't trust it. I need 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.199 to be able to see who. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:29.839 Is dining in the dark. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.559 What is that get heard of that no. 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.000 People are going to restaurants and these restaurants are like 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.760 specialty restaurants and everything is pitch black. No, they tell 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.280 you what's on the menu, and you order, they bring 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.040 it out in front of you, and you eat in 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:44.600 the dark. 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.560 First of all, the visual component. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.400 We've already talked about this dining in the Cookout episode. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:51.880 Yes, I don't want to lose that. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.000 I'm not eating it just because I just don't trust it. 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.760 I need to be able to see. What if there's 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.520 a hair in my food? What if there's a fingernail, 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.080 what if there's a fly like I need. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.200 Be able to nail. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.320 You never know, You never know. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.640 The other dominant motive that's relevant to con artists is belonging. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.880 Our family, friends, relationships, clubs, churches, even Twitter and Facebook. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.040 All of these foster our inherent need to belong to 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:17.479 something bigger than ourselves. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.360 And so if, for instance, someone isn't having their belonging 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.600 need match right, they're going to be highly motivated to 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.760 find another person to connect to. Even if I've never 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.880 met this person face to face and it's just been 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.560 an online interaction, they're still fulfilling my need to belong right. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.760 So, if you want to be a part of a group, 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.840 you pay this certain amount of money, or if you 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.880 make friends with someone online or something, they say, well, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:43.520 I would love to keep talking to you, but in 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:44.920 order for me to keep my phone on, I need 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.360 thirty dollars my phone. 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.520 We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.080 we'll get into how these motivations make us vulnerable to 0:14:52.080 --> 0:15:12.600 scammers and who gets targeted the most. One of the 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.360 times that I feel like I'm being scammed the most 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.520 is during the election seasons. 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:20.800 Yes, like I don't. 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.320 There's just so much going on and I don't know 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.800 who to believe. They're saying all these numbers, and they're 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.840 saying all these things, and I'm like, are you lying 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:31.840 just so that I can vote for you? 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.120 Or how many people did you poll? How did you 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.160 phrase the question? Was it leading? Is this a real poll? 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.720 When you call me on the phone? Are you a telemarketer? 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.760 Are you really with somebody's campaign? What is going on? 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:44.040 And who is knocking at the door? 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.280 Right, We've got a lot of questions, and I'm sure 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.920 you do too, So if you have questions about this, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.280 make sure that you send us an email at contact 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.880 at Dope Black podcast dot com or give us a 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.920 call at two zero two five six seven seven zero 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.320 two eight, or y'all can slide into our DM on 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.200 Instagram or Twitter at dope last podcasts. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.040 All right, let's get back to the lab. So are 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.000 all these scams we're reading about and hearing about online 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.120 happening because people are more susceptible? Or is it because 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.680 con artists are just really good at taking advantage of 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.400 these deficits in our motivations. 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:18.800 I think what happens in these calms is a bit 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.520 of both. You get the people who are more susceptible 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:26.280 and you get colms developed by people who are insightful 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.720 in terms of the kinds of deficits. Humans may have 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.200 interims of their needs for belonging, so, for instance, the 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.920 elderly get targeteds a lot, usually because their belongingness is 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.440 a lot lower than the general population. We tend to 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.800 isolate the elderly in Western societies. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.280 The elderly are one of the most targeted groups by 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.320 con artists, and it's not just because of their need 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.440 to belong and to trust. There are also neurobiological reasons 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:53.960 why they are more susceptible. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.840 Most people think of the brain as something that's like 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.280 a computer machine where it's sort of hardwired. But that's 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.720 absolutely not true. The brain is very what we call elastic. 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.639 It's flexible, it can adopt quite easily. As you get older, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.440 the rate of change slows quite dramatically, which is why 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.840 elderly people tend to be stuck in their ways, as 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.520 we see, because the brain isn't being as flexible. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.160 So as you get older, there's sort of a cocktail 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.040 of factors that make you more susceptible. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.919 A greater motivation to belong and the inability to easily 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.240 adapt to new social contexts, which might lead to you 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.879 trusting people that others may be a little bit wary of. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.080 If someone is reaching out to you on the internet 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.560 or the phone, and it's consistent with how you've always 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.359 interacted with friendly, trustworthy people, your brain's going to say, yes, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.399 you can trust this person, and it fits right because 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.040 for your whole life you've learned that when people approach 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.879 you in a certain way, there are usually a certain 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:50.680 type of people, which means you can trust them. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.680 But now things have changed completely on Your brain isn't 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.600 catching up as quickly because it's not as elastic, and 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.199 so you're still going to make decisions based on not 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.520 myself learning history you've had, so. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.200 Your beliefs are set, but you're in a totally different 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.679 social context. And technology has really shifted that context dramatically 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.119 in the last decade. But it's not just elderly people 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.120 who are the target. Technology has made us all more trusting. 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.680 Think about how much you trust the internet. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.160 I really trust the Internet. I remember being so nervous 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.720 the first time I entered my debit card info online girl. 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.000 I got an American Express, and I was like, nervous, 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.879 no more. Okay. The other day I was at work 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:36.760 and I was typing something in and I said, why 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.280 isn't my address coming up like I wanted it to 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.960 auto populate save all my info. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.119 If it's an online story and it doesn't have Apple 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.400 pay where I can't just put my thumb down. I'm 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.800 very frustrated, and as skeptical as I feel about other things, 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.280 it's so interesting, right what we decide to trust. I mean, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.920 even on Instagram. I feel like now a lot of 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.480 y'all gonna try and be out here lying but buying 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:05.320 stuff off of Instagram, honey, and sometimes that stuff don't 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.000 show up the way you thought, which has happened to 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:09.639 me a number of times. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.280 I've always been skeptical of Instagram. I was skeptical of 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.119 Asos and everybody was buying stuff and loving it, and 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.239 so no, that's real. Yeah, it's real, but I know. 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.200 And the same thing with Fashionova, only Instagram people were 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.800 wearing it. It was like Instagram clothes. I just bought. 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.520 I think my first thing off of Instagram recently, I 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:33.879 bought a background. Today. Somebody posted this digital illustrator. I'll 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:35.399 put it on the show notes for people to check 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.840 it out, and she had drawn this thing of Kicky 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.119 Palmer and says, sorry to this man, I had to 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:41.479 buy it. I had to buy it. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:42.560 You didn't have a choice. 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.080 And I think now you have a generation of people 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.040 who aren't suspicious of technology at all, right, because they 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.880 feel like they have a sit in mastery over the technology. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.000 So I think because of the diminished suspicion people, in 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.080 some ways, they're going to be more susceptible to these 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.240