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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Virginia Gonzalez, the mom of multiple children, including a seven

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Speaker 2: year old little girl found locked in a dark closet

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Speaker 2: that was barricaded down to about twenty six pounds, fed

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Speaker 2: one corn dog a day. If that, well, I'm looking

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Speaker 2: at her mugshot. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa? What happened to

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Speaker 2: those massive fake eyelashes? Where did they go?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Here she is in the raw and Miss Thing comes

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Speaker 2: into court and demands to speak. Of course, I could

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Speaker 2: not be happier. That's right, a mom of a little

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Speaker 2: girl just seven years old at twenty six pounds. I

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Speaker 2: think John David Wade did it five months for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 2: locked in a closet, catered in the closet, the closet

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Speaker 2: dark in their twenty four to seven three sixty five,

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Speaker 2: gets one corn dog a day if that speaks out

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Speaker 2: in court.

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Speaker 1: Now, before I.

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Speaker 2: Tell you what Miss Thing says in court, let me

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Speaker 2: jog your memory about what happened.

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Speaker 4: On April third, twenty twenty five, Austin Police Department responded

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Speaker 4: to a nine to one to one call for a

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Speaker 4: seven year old child that was found locked in a

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Speaker 4: closet and starving. The seven year old was immediately taken

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Speaker 4: to a local hospital for medical treatment and it's currently recovering.

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Speaker 4: There were six other children found in the home that

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Speaker 4: appeared physically healthy.

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Speaker 5: Police officers at an Austin apartment find a severely malnourished

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Speaker 5: seven year old girl who is barricaded in a bedroom closet.

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Speaker 5: The child is found soiled, weighing just twenty nine pounds,

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Speaker 5: and has been confined to a three foot by two

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Speaker 5: foot closet space for approximately a month. Investigators find the

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Speaker 5: child has been given one corn dog and a half

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Speaker 5: a cup of water a day. Doctors Adell Children's Medical

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Speaker 5: Center determined the little girl as suffering moderate to severe

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Speaker 5: cerebral atrophy from prolonged malnutrition, damage from which she will

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Speaker 5: never recover.

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Speaker 2: And now new details emerging in a case out of Austin, Texas,

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Speaker 2: Authorities first learn a seven year old girl is locked

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Speaker 2: in a closet.

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Speaker 1: Who knows how long. She weighs twenty six pounds.

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Speaker 2: When they go to inspect that, they find out her

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Speaker 2: sister has been missing four years. Mommy Virginia Gonzales spacing

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Speaker 2: charges including injury to a child, inflicting serious injury after

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Speaker 2: her daughter found locked in a closet and starving. But

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Speaker 2: it was only after that arrest police learned she never

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Speaker 2: reported the disappearance of the other child, a nine year

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Speaker 2: old little girl missing since December two thousand and seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Now many people have asked me online, why didn't the

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Speaker 2: grandmother do anything. Well, the grandmother did call police when

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Speaker 2: she went to the home and found the seven year

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Speaker 2: old in the closet, but no one called police about

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Speaker 2: the missing sister. And I want to remind you this

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Speaker 2: closet was less than five feet by two feet five

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Speaker 2: by two five feet tall, two feet wide.

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Speaker 1: There were other objects in there. What other objects in there?

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Speaker 2: No light, no ventilation, and it was barricaded by seventy

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Speaker 2: five pounds of boxes in front of it.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine the life that.

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Speaker 2: Child had in a closet her living space about three

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Speaker 2: by one foot ten inches three by two let's be generous,

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Speaker 2: no light, no ventilation, barricaded on the outside by seventy five.

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Speaker 1: Pound boxes in front of it.

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Speaker 2: The little girl was soiled, of course, she had tee

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Speaker 2: teed and defecated. I said, twenty six, it's twenty nine pounds,

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Speaker 2: twenty nine pounds when she was rescued. She's already suffered

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Speaker 2: moderate to severe cerebral atrophy. That's permanent brain damage due

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Speaker 2: to prolonged nutrition. This is what we are just learning.

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Speaker 1: Quote.

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Speaker 2: She will never recover, according to the state's affidavit. Now,

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Speaker 2: the other six children in the home from two to

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Speaker 2: fourteen told grandma they were ordered to lock her in

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Speaker 2: there because she had quote bladder control issues and was

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Speaker 2: quote always getting into stuff and quote eating things she

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Speaker 2: was not supposed to, what like food. A ten year

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Speaker 2: old brother told police he was told he had to

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Speaker 2: clean the closet because the little sister would have to

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Speaker 2: defecate and urinate in the closet. The little girl gets

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Speaker 2: just a corn dog a day and a half a

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Speaker 2: cup of water. How can a child survive day after day,

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Speaker 2: week after week, month after month, locked in a dark closet,

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Speaker 2: living off nothing, straight out to Christina Ohio joining US

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Speaker 2: investigative reporter Christina, this child locked in a closet.

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Speaker 1: What happened?

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Speaker 6: Well, according to the affadavit, when police got there, when

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Speaker 6: the caller called in for the welfare check and police

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Speaker 6: got there, they found a seven year old little girl

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Speaker 6: locked in a closet. It was barricaded by seventy five

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Speaker 6: pounds of boxes. They opened that door, they found that

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Speaker 6: child in there. She was soiled, surrounded by feces. She

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Speaker 6: was severely malnourished. She had dark spots all over her body,

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Speaker 6: which is a sign of severe malnourishment. They took her,

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Speaker 6: of course, to the hospital where she weighed twenty nine

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Speaker 6: pounds and medical personnel say that because of the prolonged

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Speaker 6: starvation of that little girl, that she will have permanent

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Speaker 6: brain damage.

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Speaker 2: Permanent brain damage caused by starvation. Joining me, Virginia Bagbee,

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Speaker 2: director of Child Help, National child abuse hotline Child Help.

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Speaker 1: Virginia, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Many people don't know that starving a child can result

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Speaker 2: in permanent brain damage.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anything like it before, Virginia.

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Speaker 7: We have definitely heard about cases like this, and they

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Speaker 7: happen all too often.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner Terrent County.

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Speaker 1: That's fort Worth, never a lack of business.

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Speaker 2: He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of

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Speaker 2: Medicine at TCU and has just launched a hit podcast,

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Speaker 2: Mayhem and the More. Doctor Kendall Crowns thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. I know that you heard this, but

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Speaker 2: let me repeat it again. A seven year old little

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Speaker 2: girl barricaded in a locked bedroom closet lot from the outside, soiled,

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Speaker 2: a seven year old weigh just twenty nine pounds, confined

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Speaker 2: to a three by two foot closet. She is being

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Speaker 2: given at most one corn dog and a half cup

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Speaker 2: of water a day.

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Speaker 1: She is now.

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Speaker 2: Suffering permanent, moderate to severe cerebral atrophy from prolonged malnutrition.

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Speaker 2: The dock states she will never recover. Could you interpret

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Speaker 2: that please?

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Speaker 8: Certainly? So she's not being given much food or water.

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Speaker 8: I mean a corn dog and a cup of water

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Speaker 8: is not much for a child or anybody for that matter.

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Speaker 8: Her body is losing its depleting its muscle, depleting its stores,

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Speaker 8: so her muscles are wasting away, her bones are starting

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Speaker 8: to not form properly, and she's being starved. And part

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Speaker 8: of being starved results in your cardiac muscle or your

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Speaker 8: heart muscle mass starting to also fade away or go away,

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Speaker 8: which reduces your heart's ability to pump your blood, which

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Speaker 8: results in your kidney's failing and you go into kidney failure.

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Speaker 8: You also start having gut issues as well, and this

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Speaker 8: can all affect your brain and your brain's development, especially

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Speaker 8: in a child. So all those factors combined will result

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Speaker 8: in her having these issues that the doctors are describing.

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Speaker 1: Now, there general crowns.

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Speaker 2: A child of seven years old should weigh around seventy

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Speaker 2: pounds forty five to seventy pounds, Is that right?

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Speaker 8: Yes, it would be about the average date of a

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Speaker 8: child at.

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Speaker 2: Seven, a seven year old average. Of course, they grow

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Speaker 2: in different ways. The average is fifty one pounds for

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Speaker 2: a seven year old child, but it ranges from forty

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Speaker 2: three to seventy. So where would you place twenty nine

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Speaker 2: pounds in that spectrum? Twenty nine pounds. If a seven

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Speaker 2: year old can weigh up to seventy three, she's not

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Speaker 2: even half the weight of a seven year old.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, the way you're describing as a severely malnourished child,

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Speaker 8: So she's been starved for a prolonged period of time.

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Speaker 1: How does that make a child brain damaged?

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Speaker 8: It's from the body shutting down, the lack of food,

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Speaker 8: the lack of loss of muscle mass, the heart muscle

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Speaker 8: mass being lost and not circulating properly. The organs aren't

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Speaker 8: getting enough oxygenated blood and of course the brain's part

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Speaker 8: of this, so the brain's not getting proper oxygenation. Also,

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Speaker 8: the brain relies on glucose or sugars to grow and develop,

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Speaker 8: and it's not getting that as well, So the brain

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Speaker 8: is basically maldeveloped, not getting enough oxygen, so you get

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Speaker 8: brain damage.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it true that a child weighing twenty nine pounds typically,

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Speaker 2: and I'm basing this on charts of statistics that I prepared,

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Speaker 2: it's typically a twenty two month old child at twenty

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Speaker 2: nine pounds.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I would be correct.

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Speaker 2: A seven year old little girl, doctor Kymdall Crowns, that

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Speaker 2: should weigh seventy one pounds fifty one to seventy one

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Speaker 2: pounds weighs twenty nine pounds. With a child starving, what

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Speaker 2: would she be enduring on the floor of that locked closet,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Crowns.

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Speaker 8: She would be enduring confusion, dehydration, or a very dry

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Speaker 8: mouth or throat. It'd be dry, she'd have trouble swallowing,

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Speaker 8: she'd be very tired in just not able to even move.

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Speaker 8: And then you would add on to that the fact

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Speaker 8: that without the food she'd start hallucinating, and then eventually

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Speaker 8: just slip into a coma and finally die.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Kendel crowns, would the child lose her hair? I

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Speaker 2: know that she's losing all muscle tone. Would she be

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Speaker 2: losing her hair? Would her faculties or hearing her sight?

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Speaker 2: Would that be intact? And what would her brain function

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Speaker 2: be lying on the floor of a dark closet starving.

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Speaker 8: So yes, hair often will fall out in individuals who

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Speaker 8: are starved. Her brain function would be very minimal. She'd

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Speaker 8: be confused, even possibly hallucinating, and just completely fatigued and

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Speaker 8: not even feeling like moving.

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Speaker 1: Is it true?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Kendal crowns that when someone has been starved for

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Speaker 2: a prolonged period of time, as in this case, when

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Speaker 2: you give them food, they can't even eat it.

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Speaker 8: Yes, you can have what is called if you give

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Speaker 8: a person who's been starved, you feed them too quickly,

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Speaker 8: you can have what is called refeeding syndrome, where they

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Speaker 8: actually will the food intake it will cause so much

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Speaker 8: of a shock to their body that they can die.

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Speaker 2: Guys, when police show up to a home, they find

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Speaker 2: six children and then a seventh locked in a closet

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Speaker 2: weighing just twenty nine pounds, but ironically, amazingly listen to

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Speaker 2: the condition of the other six children.

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Speaker 5: Six other children in the apartment, ranging in age from

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Speaker 5: two to fourteen years old, are found to be an

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Speaker 5: apparently good physical condition. The apartment's pantry, refrigerator in freezer

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Speaker 5: are stocked with various food items. The oldest children were

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Speaker 5: given strict orders to put the little girl in the

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Speaker 5: closet because she had bladder control issues and she was

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Speaker 5: trying to eat things she wasn't supposed to. During the investigation,

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Speaker 5: police learned there's an eighth child, Ava Marie, who is

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Speaker 5: not in the home with the other children.

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Speaker 2: We've got one starved child who has permanent brain damage.

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Speaker 2: A seven year old little girl weighing twenty nine pounds

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Speaker 2: locked in a closet. Now I've got a missing child too.

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Speaker 2: But to doctor angel Arnold joining me renowned psychiatrists out

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Speaker 2: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at angela Arnold MD dot com,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Angie, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear what was just reported?

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Speaker 2: That there were six other children in the home seemingly healthy,

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Speaker 2: and they were encouraged to keep the little girl locked

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Speaker 2: in a closet, starving her because the little girl would

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Speaker 2: eat things she wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Supposed to eat.

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Speaker 2: You know what, doctor Angie, I've heard every excuse in

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Speaker 2: the book about why parents starve the children. Oh, the

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Speaker 2: child ate a candy bar, I'll starve it. The child

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Speaker 2: eats too much, I'll starve it. The child misbehaved, I'll

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Speaker 2: starve it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a million.

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Speaker 2: Excuses I have heard as to why moms and dads starve.

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Speaker 1: The baby dead.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, we see six other children seemingly healthy, and.

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Speaker 9: This is oftentimes what we do see in cases like this, Nancy,

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Speaker 9: So the other children need to be taken care of

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Speaker 9: as well as this goes on, because they have been

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Speaker 9: suffering something.

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Speaker 10: Called Stockholm syndrome.

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Speaker 9: They want to They are so scared of the abuse

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Speaker 9: that they see being heaped on this other child that

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Speaker 9: they that they go into it with their mother literally

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Speaker 9: to protect themselves. Okay, because Nancy, imagine how scared these

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Speaker 9: other children are. They never know who's going to be

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Speaker 9: next to be locked in that closet. So they're going

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Speaker 9: to listen to their mama. They're going to do what

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Speaker 9: she says. And I think that they could probably also

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Speaker 9: psychologically sort of break off from from feeling towards the

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Speaker 9: child that is being locked in the closet so that

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Speaker 9: they can protect themselves, because this is chaos that this.

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Speaker 10: Family is living in.

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Speaker 9: It is complete and utter chaos, and all of those

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Speaker 9: other children are suffering. They may not be branded brain damaged.

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Speaker 10: Excuse me, they.

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Speaker 9: Are not being you know, they're not being starved, but

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Speaker 9: they are also being damaged by the so called mother

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Speaker 9: of theirs.

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Speaker 11: A missing child case takes a dark turn after a

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Speaker 11: disturbing discovery inside a family home.

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Speaker 2: It brings to mind the case of another seven year

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Speaker 2: old child, Adrian Jones.

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Speaker 1: There was just handed.

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Speaker 2: Down a multimillion dollar verdict against the state of Kentucky.

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Speaker 2: Adrian Jones was systematically starved, forced by his mother and father.

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Speaker 1: To watch the rest of the family.

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Speaker 2: They would put bars of soap in his mouth while

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Speaker 2: everyone else ate, force him to stand outside, chin deep

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Speaker 2: in a pool until finally the boy died.

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Speaker 1: They killed the boy. Listen.

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Speaker 5: Former bail bondsman Michael Jones is a wardy custody of

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Speaker 5: his son, Adrian Jones, and takes the boy away from

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Speaker 5: his mother For the next four years. Adrian is regularly starved,

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Speaker 5: rudely beaten, tortured taste and locked in a shower naked

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Speaker 5: for months. Adrian's brothers sisters do not suffer the same fate.

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Speaker 5: Adrian is singled out by his father and stepmother. When

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Speaker 5: the child dies, Michael Jones buys two pigs and doesn't

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Speaker 5: feed them. While the Adrian's body is left in the

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Speaker 5: shower for two weeks. When the pigs are starving, Michael

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Speaker 5: Jones feeds his son to the pigs. Michael and Heather

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Speaker 5: Jones plead guilty to first yegary murder and are serving

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Speaker 5: twenty five years to life.

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Speaker 2: So in one closet, we've got the child starved and

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Speaker 2: a and back to you, doctor Anngie Arnold, you said

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Speaker 2: the other siblings are gonna have to be in treatment.

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Speaker 2: You're right, because they didn't just watch their sister starve

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Speaker 2: slowly to death. They were forced to keep her in

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Speaker 2: the closet themselves.

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Speaker 1: They're going to go the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 2: Thinking they starve their sister and now she's got permanent

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Speaker 2: brain damage.

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Speaker 10: Angie, that's exactly correct, Nancy.

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Speaker 9: These children have been abused in a different way, and

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Speaker 9: it's all for a matter of control. It's to keep

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Speaker 9: all of those children in control, Nancy, because you know,

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Speaker 9: you can only imagine there's one mother all of these children.

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Speaker 9: If somebody got old enough to decide, you know, we

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Speaker 9: really shouldn't be treating this person this way, they could

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Speaker 9: possibly escape or something like this.

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Speaker 10: Right, but that mother.

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Speaker 9: Is making sure that they are so terrified. They are

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Speaker 9: so terrified in the home that they live in, and

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Speaker 9: she and she feeds them so that they have this

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Speaker 9: odd relationship where with the mother where they still need.

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Speaker 10: Her, but they're scared of her, so that none of

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Speaker 10: them will go against Charlotte Too.

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Speaker 2: Brown Blake joining US agent, Professor of University Texas School

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Speaker 2: of Law, Chief Legal Officer Texas Advocacy Project, browin thank.

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Speaker 1: You for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I've seen it many many times, like in Adrian Jones,

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Speaker 2: like in this case, for one child out of the

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Speaker 2: whole group is singled out and they're the ones that starved.

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Speaker 1: That child is the one that's abused.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand the phenomena, but I accept it because

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Speaker 2: I've seen it over and over, even cases that I prosecuted,

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Speaker 2: other children would go unscathed while the one child would

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Speaker 2: end up dead.

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Speaker 12: The idea that abuse is all about power and control

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Speaker 12: really helps explain this dynamic. This person is not out

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Speaker 12: of control. They're being very calculated and systematic in who

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Speaker 12: they abuse and how so all of those children experienced abuse,

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Speaker 12: just in different ways.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 2: Not only do we have a child starved your death,

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Speaker 2: languishing on the floor of locked closet, we have a

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Speaker 2: missing child.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 4: During the investigation, police discovered that there was an eighth

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Speaker 4: child who was not found inside the home. The missing

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Speaker 4: nine year old child was identified as Ava Marie Gonzalez.

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Speaker 4: Missing persons Detectives determined that Ava was last seen in

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Speaker 4: December twenty seventeen, when she was two years old and

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Speaker 4: in the custody of her mother, Virginia Marie Gonzalez.

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Speaker 5: Learning there should be eight children in the apartment, not

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Speaker 5: just the seven they found, police opened an investigation and

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Speaker 5: quickly determined Ava Marie has not been seen by family

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Speaker 5: or friends since she was two years old in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 5: in custody of her mother, Virginia Gonzalez. Considering the condition

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Speaker 5: of Ava's seven year old sister when she was found,

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Speaker 5: Austin police detected are very concerned about Ava's welfare.

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Speaker 2: So they've got six children seemingly healthy. You've got one

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Speaker 2: child starved locked in a closet, and now you've got

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Speaker 2: a missing child. Joining me is a special guest. This

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Speaker 2: is Leanne Marie, friend of the children's mother, Virginia Gonzalez. Leanne,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Yes, ma'am, Leanne Marie.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about Virginia Gonzalez.

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Speaker 13: So, from what I know, she was just a normal person.

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Speaker 14: I mean, honestly, she never really had her kids with her,

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Speaker 14: like you know, presence. The only one that I've seen

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Speaker 14: with her in the past year was the oldest one,

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Speaker 14: the fourteen year old. Besides that, we never knew that

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Speaker 14: she had, you know, the little girl.

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Speaker 13: We only knew of boys.

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Speaker 14: So she was just a typical person, partying out in

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Speaker 14: the clubs and the bars. I mean, she she was

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Speaker 14: just she never lived like she even had nine eight

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Speaker 14: nine kids.

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Speaker 13: Very very you're scaring me.

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Speaker 2: Now there's mommy, Hi mom, Yeah, but there she is,

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Speaker 2: party down mom. Where are your children right now? William

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Speaker 2: Marine just said something that scared me. Okay, hold on,

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Speaker 2: So I know that there are six children in the home,

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Speaker 2: healthy ish, one starved in a closet, and one missing.

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Speaker 1: That's eight.

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Speaker 2: But you mentioned nine, the possibility of a ninth child.

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Speaker 13: Yes, ma'am, a very ninth child.

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Speaker 14: Yes, So it's right now they're saying that this night child,

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Speaker 14: he is not He does not have a social social

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Speaker 14: security here in Texas, so he's not registered here in Texas.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Darryl Parker, I need you and I need you

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Speaker 2: now there's another missing child.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that?

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Speaker 2: Darryl Parker, former Lieutenant Fanning County Sheriff's Office, former marine,

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Speaker 2: former Texas police officer.

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Speaker 1: Help me. So we're learning right now that there's a

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Speaker 1: ninth child that's in the wind. Nobody knows how old.

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Speaker 2: The child is, where it is, it doesn't have a

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Speaker 2: Texas Social Security number.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Nancy, that's pretty concerning. I know that the

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Speaker 3: mom has already made several statements to police that are

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Speaker 3: inconsistent about the child that is missing already that they

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Speaker 3: already know about. And it'll be interesting to see if

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Speaker 3: some follow up questioning can reveal anything about this ninth child.

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Speaker 8: Possible ninth child.

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Speaker 2: Virginia Bagby joining us from Child Help National abuse hotline

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Speaker 2: going into this right now. I knew that there were

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Speaker 2: eight children, six in the home one Starve near death

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Speaker 2: with brain damage and one missing since twenty seventeen. Now

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing about child number nine. Is that child dead?

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Speaker 2: I mean, what do you do when you get a

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Speaker 2: call like this? The child help?

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Speaker 7: Well, this is a really difficult one. I would encourage

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Speaker 7: somebody to reach out to the local hospitals potentially where

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Speaker 7: all the other children have been born, to see if

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Speaker 7: they have any record. This is very concerning to have

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Speaker 7: two children missing. Now these other children have probably are

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Speaker 7: aware that they have siblings that are missing. Add that

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Speaker 7: to the terror they've been experiencing.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: In court, Miss thing Virginia Gonzalez states, I instructed them

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Speaker 2: not to let her out of the bedroom, but not

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Speaker 2: the closet, so she would basically blame the other children.

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Speaker 2: Quote we'd catch her in the restroom doing something bad.

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Speaker 2: What what would she be doing in the bathroom at

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Speaker 2: seven years old? Quote it was easier for my sons

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Speaker 2: to watch her that way.

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Speaker 1: Are you doing?

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Speaker 2: What was grandma doing? Why weren't they watching her? Why

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Speaker 2: would you leave a ten year old boy in charge

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Speaker 2: of six other children? Text messages uncover Gonzala is texting

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Speaker 2: one of her children. Quote, clean the closet, then throw

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Speaker 2: her back in. In the affidavit we obtained, the detective

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Speaker 2: describes a child, the fat in her cheeks was nonexistent.

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Speaker 2: Her body had used those stores to sustain itself. Now,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, Gonzales speaks more. She insists the children

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Speaker 2: had quote adequate food. I don't dispute I was wrong.

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Speaker 2: I know what I've done is wrong. I want to

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Speaker 2: fight for my kids. Are you serious? I'm ready to

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Speaker 2: do whatever I need to keep my children in my life.

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Speaker 2: Well you know what, they could be your pen pals

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Speaker 2: from behind bars woman.

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Speaker 11: A shocking discovery inside a home leads police to investigate

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Speaker 11: a long buried secret.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Liam Marie is joining us. A friend of the mom,

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Speaker 2: Virginia Gozalz MS murray, thank you because what you've.

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Speaker 1: Just said could save a child's life.

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Speaker 2: Yes, mom, However, do you know Leanne is the ninth

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Speaker 2: child older younger girl.

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Speaker 14: Boy, it's a boy, and he is around age nine

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Speaker 14: to ten years old. So she has a fourteen and eleven,

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Speaker 14: A ten, A nine, a seven. I know she has

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Speaker 14: two three year olds the newborn. So there's there's there's

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Speaker 14: nine from what I'm hearing right now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me have this up.

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Speaker 2: There's a fourteen year old, an eleven year old, a

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Speaker 2: ten year old, A nine year old is the boy

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Speaker 2: that you think is missing? A seven year old is

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Speaker 2: a little girl starved in the closet? Two three year old?

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Speaker 2: Go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven eight, I'm

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Speaker 2: missing somebody fourteen eleven, nine, three and three, and a

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Speaker 2: kneeborn what now?

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Speaker 14: So Ava's around eight nine years old, and then the

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Speaker 14: little boys right after her eleven months difference.

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Speaker 1: You stated that.

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Speaker 2: Virginia Gozales, the mother the starving little girl, and the

439
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Speaker 2: other missing girl was quote normal would go partying at

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Speaker 2: the clubs and the bars. Hey, I don't have a

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Speaker 2: problem with that party down, mommy, But what would she

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Speaker 2: ever mention who was taking care of the children while

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Speaker 2: she's at the bar.

444
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 14: So from we understand, was that the kids, all the

445
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 14: kids were left with the grandmother of She has three

446
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 14: kids that belonged to one father and they were that

447
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 14: was who she was with the past seven years, and

448
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 14: so they were supposedly all living with the grandmother.

449
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 2: You're saying, mommy, now out partying on a boat, drinking

450
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: straight out of a vague COMMUNI bottle ooh, there she

451
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: is in a bar? Why bother with a glass? Seriously,

452
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: why who needs a glass when you can drink straight

453
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: from the bottle. There's mommy chowing down on some free

454
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: toes and chips on a boat while her twenty nine

455
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: pound seven year old daughter is locked in a closet

456
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: at home. Okay, doctor Angie Arnold, I need to shrink

457
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: because why is she had on a boat parting while

458
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: her child is starving in a closet and two children

459
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: are missing?

460
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 8: Right?

461
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 9: And Nancy can she how can she just be so

462
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 9: unattached from all of these children that she's having. So

463
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 9: my question is why is she having all of these children?

464
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 9: And I'm sorry, is it to support her lifestyle?

465
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 10: And where are the fathers of these children?

466
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 9: We always have to ask where is We're always you know,

467
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 9: why does the mother taking care of them?

468
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 8: Okay?

469
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, she is a horrible person that has done thanks

470
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 9: to at least two of her children that we know about.

471
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 10: Where are the fathers of these children? And why are.

472
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 9: Any of them involved? But Nancy, I don't believe she

473
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 9: should be out partying on a boat. I think that

474
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 9: when you have children, you should be at home taking

475
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 9: care of your children and not relying on someone else

476
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 9: to take care of them, because again we don't know

477
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 9: how children take that, but oftentimes when mothers are not around,

478
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 9: children do since a fear of abandonment when their mother

479
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 9: is not taking care of them.

480
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 2: But to Ron, when Blake joining us as junct professor

481
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: University takes a school of law rowin, I'm not the

482
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: church lady. If mom wants to party, go ahead. If

483
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: mom wants to vape and smoke, have at it. The

484
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: issue is intent When she is out partying in her

485
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: club and bar finery, her child is at home starving

486
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: and two of them are missing.

487
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: Now that goes to intent.

488
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: When I'm trying to prove felony child neglect to a jury,

489
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: that's when that type of video let's see the video

490
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: again comes in to play. I couldn't care less what

491
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: mommy whares or what Barshi goes to. Don't care, But

492
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: if your child is at home, starving in a closet,

493
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: suddenly your behavior, your actions during that time are relevant.

494
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 12: Absolutely, I can tell you're thinking like a prosecutor. The

495
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 12: contrast between the images you're showing of these this child

496
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 12: and then her mother partying, it tells the whole story there,

497
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 12: and unfortunately many of users present one face to some people,

498
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 12: can be very charming to some people. And then we

499
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 12: hear about these horrible things happening at home.

500
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: Two Doctor Kimmel Crown's joining me, Chief Medical Examiner, Terran County.

501
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth. Doctor Kimmel crowns.

502
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: I've got one child starved almost beyond recognition, her bones

503
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: sticking out, you know, like they're visible through the skin.

504
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: I've got that child starved, almost dead, permanent brain injury.

505
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: I've got a missing little girl, and now I'm learning

506
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: from leam Marie there's another boy missing that is about one,

507
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: two three, fourth in the progression line of children. Leam

508
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: Marie joining us, a friend of mom Virginia Gonzalez. Did

509
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: you know that Ava was missing?

510
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 13: No, we had no idea.

511
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 14: Back in twenty eighteen, when I originally first met Virginia,

512
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 14: we only knew of.

513
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 13: Three little boys.

514
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 14: So after talking to mutual friends and all concluding that

515
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 14: she had Ava's hair shaved like a boy, she never

516
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 14: had Ava in her possess, I mean, she never let

517
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 14: us know that it was a girl. She had her

518
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 14: presented as a boy to all of us. So We're

519
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 14: all in shock. We didn't nobody knew that she had Ava.

520
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: Leanne, I don't understand this.

521
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: So she showed you Ava, but this is the missing child,

522
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: not the starving child. Right, you saw Ava. And she

523
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: had her dressed like a boy with her head shaved.

524
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 14: She had her hair, she had him hat, she had

525
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 14: a faid, He had a faid. I definitely confirmed this

526
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 14: with her landlord and roommates that she lived with back

527
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 14: in twenty eighteen. Everybody concluded that and confirmed it. It

528
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 14: was a little boy, it was not a Nobody knew

529
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 14: she had a little.

530
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: Girl, Leanne knowing the mother, why do you think she

531
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: shaved the little girl's head and passed her off as

532
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: a boy.

533
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 14: I feel like that she had a anger issue with

534
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 14: the little girls because of the way her mother treated

535
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 14: her back when she was little, and I think that

536
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 14: she was taking it out on these little girls because

537
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 14: from all the evidence and information that I've collected, it's

538
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 14: all based on the girls.

539
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 13: So you know, she sold the baby who was a

540
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 13: little girl that was just born in March. She starved

541
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 13: a re.

542
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: Reading whoa, whoa, whoa. My head is spinning. What did

543
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: you just say? She sold a baby.

544
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 13: Yes, and CPS just found that baby.

545
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: When okayhead, that's the newborn baby that was just born

546
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: in March, So that baby's been sold, yes, but see

547
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: how much does she get from the baby? From what

548
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: I heard twenty five k Christina Whyo tell me about

549
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: the newborn baby girl that just got sold.

550
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 6: Well apparently from my investigations online, and none of this

551
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 6: has been confirmed yet, but she did have this newborn baby.

552
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 6: And according to all person who says that they are

553
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 6: a close relative of the family, she did have a

554
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 6: newborn baby.

555
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: It was sold to a couple.

556
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 6: So if that is in fact the case, there could

557
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 6: be a possibility that Aba Mariican sol Is was also sold,

558
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 6: and that's something that will have to be looked into,

559
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 6: because it would be my opic of us to think

560
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 6: that that possibility isn't out there.

561
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: You know what, Chrisna Ariyah, I can only hope and

562
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 2: pray that she was sold and that she's alive and

563
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: being treated better than the little seven year old to

564
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: Leanne Marie, a friend of mom Virginia Gonzalez, why did

565
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: she sell her baby?

566
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 14: I'm guessing financial issues, but at the same time, you know,

567
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 14: all the money was going downtown Sixth Street and at

568
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 14: the strip clubs. I mean, she was just making it

569
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 14: rain with money and buying bottles after bottles and buying

570
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 14: everybody buying the bar out. I mean, that's where I

571
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 14: seen the money going. I didn't see anything.

572
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 13: Else that she had that.

573
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 14: I mean, she didn't even have a vehicle, you know

574
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 14: what I mean. So, I mean, I think all the

575
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 14: money he was just going to party in. I don't

576
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 14: think it was ever to just take care of her

577
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 14: and the rest of the kids, you know what I mean.

578
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: I noticed in the party video she's got a Gucci bag.

579
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: Strapped around her front. Was that a fake? Was that

580
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: a fruity? A fake Gucci?

581
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 14: From my understanding, everything that the police found in her

582
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 14: room was everything was name brand. I don't think it

583
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 14: was fake, but I do now know that a video

584
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 14: was taped back in May a year ago. She would

585
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 14: just cover up her stomach. I mean she would, honestly

586
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 14: now that I'm thinking, I'm thinking she was trying to

587
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 14: hide the pregnancy. Why because she was out there partying,

588
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 14: I mean on the boat party, which was in September

589
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 14: of twenty twenty four, my birthday. You can see in

590
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 14: the video she was kind of closed. She didn't take

591
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 14: the whole shot, and I got other, you know, videos

592
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 14: of footage of her putting the shots on the side

593
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 14: when people weren't watching.

594
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 13: So I think she knew she.

595
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 14: Was pregnant, but she just didn't want the other the

596
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 14: world to know that she was pregnant. So she would

597
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 14: literally buy bottles, get everybody drunk, and.

598
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 13: I guess what then nobody notices anything.

599
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: Lan question, did she discuss openly that she was selling

600
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: the baby?

601
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 13: No, no, ma'am.

602
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 14: I found that out through the one of the children's families,

603
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 14: the ones that I've been speaking with since the very

604
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 14: beginning of the case, when it first started getting investigated.

605
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: Do you know who she sold the baby too?

606
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 13: I do not know them personally. I just know that

607
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 13: it was a couple.

608
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 2: Well, I am, why did she keep having children if

609
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 2: she hated them so much.

610
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 14: I don't think that she was having the children to

611
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 14: you know, just be this mother and to take care

612
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 14: of them. I think she was living off the benefits

613
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 14: the snap and the EBT and the fathers. I think

614
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 14: that was how she would hold some of these men,

615
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 14: you know, in her life, because a lot of them

616
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 14: didn't deal with the children. They only dealt with her,

617
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 14: and a lot of them didn't want the children, they

618
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 14: just wanted her. So I think that it was like

619
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 14: the kids were like a tool for them. She was

620
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 14: you know how they say there's womenizers. I think she

621
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 14: was like like that with the men, like where she

622
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 14: idolized men.

623
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 13: Before her children.

624
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: Did anyone ever wonder who would be taking care of

625
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: the children while she's out partying.

626
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 14: So from my friendship experience with her, she would come

627
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 14: and go. So one minute she was out here popping

628
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 14: bottles for about two or three months, and then she'll

629
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 14: go ghost for six months a year, and then she'll

630
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 14: pop out out of nowhere again. So it wasn't really

631
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 14: she was really just screet with the children. Like I said,

632
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 14: I only went to her that apartment where they found

633
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 14: the child that was starving and the other six children.

634
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 13: I only went to that apartment one time, which.

635
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 14: Was to go pick her up and she it was clean.

636
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 14: It was the fourteen year old was the only one there.

637
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 14: I didn't ask because every time I asked about the children,

638
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 14: it was that they were with her the grandmother because

639
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 14: her baby daddy was you know, crazy after her, So

640
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 14: she just left it tete over him so he would

641
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 14: be calm, is what she would tell.

642
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: Us crime stories with Nancy Grace. Now regarding the missing sister,

643
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 2: Gonzalez spouts off again in court and says a man

644
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: named Saul he Menez took Little Ava from her, and

645
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 2: the man was the girl's father, but she now claims

646
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: he was deported back to Mexico before he ment as

647
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 2: sister took Little Ava with her to Mexico as well.

648
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: I only hope and pray that's true. Although Austin police

649
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: say they are handling Little Ava's disappearance quote as a

650
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 2: homicide investigation, adding they quote don't have any evidence she

651
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: is alive. Gonzales in court reports she did not kill

652
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: her daughter.

653
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: Well.

654
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: Her bond has been raised to a quarter million dollars.

655
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: How do people have children over and over and over

656
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: seven children? We now believe and treat them like this.

657
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Has nobody ever heard of a condom? Has nobody ever

658
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: heard of the birth control pill? Locking the child in

659
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: the closet and starving her one child already missing, believed

660
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: to be dead?

661
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: What more do we know?

662
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: Aliam Marie is joining us a friend of the ma

663
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: Virginia Gonzales, so you think that she's having the children

664
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: in order to get state benefits.

665
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 14: I don't think it's just state benefits. I think, like

666
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 14: I said, it's more of a tool for the men

667
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 14: that she was in love with. I mean, I mean

668
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 14: some of them, some of the from what I'm understanding too,

669
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 14: is some of the kids. I mean, she don't even

670
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 14: know who the fathers is to some of the kids.

671
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 14: I mean, she was known for being in the club,

672
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 14: you know, with multiple men.

673
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 13: So I mean I don't think that she used the

674
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 13: children just for the benefits.

675
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 14: I think it was just more of tools to keep

676
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 14: the men in her life to help benefit her with

677
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 14: the money and the pain for this and pain for that.

678
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 13: And that's what I think.

679
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 2: To Darryl Parker joining me former Lieutenant Fannin County Sheriff's

680
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: Office at Blackfish Intel dot com, Daryl, how do we

681
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: go about finding the two missing children. You've got the

682
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: little girl missing, We've got an AH progress photo of her.

683
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 2: You've got her missing. You've got a nine year old

684
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: boy missing. I believe the little newborn girl that was

685
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: sold has been recovered, But how do you go about

686
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: finding the two missing children?

687
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 3: Well, you know, Nancy, I see a lot of parallels

688
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 3: between this case and the Kathy Anthony case. And if

689
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 3: you recall, the thing that really bogged down that investigation

690
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: was Kathy Anthony's multiple stories where she gave the police

691
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: all these different versions of what happened to her child.

692
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 3: And so in this case, I think the mom has

693
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 3: given them some inconsistent stories. They're going to have to

694
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 3: track these down. And this is over a period of

695
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 3: time too. Seven years is a lot longer period of

696
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: time than when Kasey Anthony's child was missing, so it's

697
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: going to be a lot more difficult for law enforcement

698
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: to piece that together.

699
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 8: But she couldn't have done all this without.

700
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 3: Other adults being aware of what was going on, at

701
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 3: least collaterally, So I think there are going to be

702
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 3: some other collateral witnesses that can help provide some information

703
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 3: to try and find the kids.

704
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: Ron and Blake.

705
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 2: I don't understand how the mother can be getting government

706
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: benefits but they're not in school because the government does

707
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: know they exist and they're off school age.

708
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: How does that work?

709
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 12: This is not supposed to happen when you hear a

710
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 12: story like those. Multiple systems have failed. This mother was

711
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 12: purposely not taking her children to school, I'm sure because

712
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 12: the teachers would have seen something. She's not taking them

713
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 12: to their doctor's appointments because the doctors would have seen something.

714
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 12: Bar In Texas, every single adult is a mandatory reporter

715
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 12: of child abuse, not just those professionals I mentioned, neighbors,

716
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 12: family members. If anyone saw something, it's the law that

717
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 12: they had to report it.

718
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: Christina A Wya, what more do you know?

719
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 6: Well, they're the woman who is online identifying as a

720
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 6: very close family member.

721
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: She revealed that the newborn baby was sold.

722
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 6: She also is revealing some of the details about what

723
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 6: Virginia was telling each one of the family members. It

724
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 6: kind of lines up with what Virginia Gonzalez's friend was

725
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 6: telling us about the story. She was saying she pitted

726
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 6: the two families against each other. She allegedly told one

727
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 6: family that the kids were in the care of the

728
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 6: other family. Her side of the family told her mom

729
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 6: the same thing, vice versa. This woman also claims that

730
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 6: the father of three of Virginia Gonzalez's children actually took

731
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 6: care of six of the children for two years until

732
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 6: he went to jail allegedly back in December, and that's

733
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 6: when she's saying that Virginia Gonzalez went and picked up

734
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 6: all the kids. She had kept the fourteen with her,

735
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 6: fourteen year old with her originally and then went back

736
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 6: and picked up all the kids. So that was in December,

737
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 6: which means that if she picked up the little seven

738
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 6: year old girl who they are calling re Rea in December,

739
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 6: then that means that little girl was suffering, most likely

740
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 6: six months of abuse before that nine to one one

741
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 6: call came in and they discovered her in the closet.

742
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 6: So apparently this woman is describing Virginia Gonzalez as very manipulative,

743
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 6: and it's crazy because they also say that she didn't

744
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 6: allow any of the children to go to school, and

745
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 6: there are no records of any of the children being

746
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 6: in school. And as for Abram Mari Gonzalez, there's no

747
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 6: medical records, there's no legal records. So this is a

748
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 6: really convoluted case. And if it's true what they're saying

749
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 6: about the baby being sold to a couple, that the

750
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 6: possibility of Abram Reganzalez being sold to a couple is

751
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 6: there as well, but it might have been sold.

752
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: The baby might have.

753
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 6: Been sold to a more nefarious outfit, which means we

754
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 6: could be looking at something concerning child trafficking, which we

755
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 6: hope that's not the case. But either way, there's a

756
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 6: lot of avenues that investigators need to go down, and

757
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 6: there are a lot of leads that they need to investigate.

758
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 2: Leam Marie, Now that you realize the extent of what

759
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: Virginia Gonzales was doing to her children, are you surprised?

760
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 13: Very?

761
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 14: I'm very shocked. I'm very disbelief. I just I can't

762
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 14: believe it. I mean, she put up this image. I

763
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 14: would have never, in my rights say to mind thought

764
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 14: that she was starving a kid or abusing the children

765
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 14: like that.

766
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 13: I would have said something.

767
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: To doctor Angela Arnold.

768
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: How can you present one facade to the public and

769
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: live such a dark private life?

770
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 9: You know what comes that comes from years and years

771
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 9: of abuse, Because people who have been abused learn how

772
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 9: to compartmentalize different things in their life. So this woman,

773
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 9: because of the purported abuse that she experienced as child,

774
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 9: has learned how to contain the different parts of her

775
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 9: life and separate them. It all stems from her abuse.

776
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 15: Virginia Gonzalez, now facing two federal charges, has rejected a

777
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 15: plea offer the state offered Gonzalez a forty year prison

778
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 15: sentence in exchange for her guilty plea. She and her

779
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 15: attorney Gave Hernandez rejected the offer, calling it utterly absurd.

780
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 15: Gonzalez is still in custody. This case is set to

781
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 15: go to trial January twenty sixth, twenty twenty six. In

782
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 15: the meantime, police are still searching for another of Gonzalez's daughters,

783
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 15: Ava Marie Gonzalez. She was two at the time she

784
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 15: was last seen in December twenty seventeen.

785
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything regarding these

786
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: missing children, please dial five one two five seven two

787
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: eight four seven seven repeat five one two five seven

788
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: two eight four seven seven.

789
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend.

790
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 8: Thanks