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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Hello, and welcome to It

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Speaker 1: could happen here. This is Sharene and today is going

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Speaker 1: to be the start of a little series about Libya.

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Speaker 1: Why Libya, you may ask, Well, I wanted to learn

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Speaker 1: about Libya, so selfishly I thought, why not record myself

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Speaker 1: learning about Libya and maybe y'all can learn along with me. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think there are so many countries right now that

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Speaker 1: are in a state of unrest or turmoil or instability,

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Speaker 1: and it's really important to know how we got here,

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Speaker 1: know what those countries went through to reach this state

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Speaker 1: of unpredictability and unease. So we're gonna start with Libya today.

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Speaker 1: There are so many other countries I want to do

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Speaker 1: this with, But I really love history and I love

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Speaker 1: knowing the context of a country. So hopefully by the

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Speaker 1: end of this will reach present day news about Libya

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Speaker 1: and we'll have a foundation to talk about Libya in

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Speaker 1: the future from a place of knowing. Let's go to

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Speaker 1: seventy four BC all the way back to seventy four

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Speaker 1: b C. The Romans conquered Libya and held control until

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Speaker 1: six forty three a D. In sixty three a D.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ad been Alas conquered Libya and spread Islam across

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Speaker 1: northern Africa. He was the Arab commander who led the

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Speaker 1: Muslim conquest of Egypt and is regarded as one of

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Speaker 1: the most important figures in the history of Egypt because

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Speaker 1: he introduced a Slam to the country. He also served

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Speaker 1: as its governor in six forty to sixty six and

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Speaker 1: again from six fifty eight to six sixty four a D.

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Speaker 1: He founded a new city just north of the Roman

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Speaker 1: fort of Babylon called Fostat. Today, the Mosque of Amas

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Speaker 1: still marks the site of this city. He is a

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Speaker 1: highly respected figure for Muslims. Now, let's fast forward to

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth century, when Libya became part of the Ottoman Empire.

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Speaker 1: At this point, the Ottoman Empire had accumulated a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of territory and continued to do so. In sixteen

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Speaker 1: forty three a d. The Ottoman Empire was at its

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Speaker 1: largest extent. Go look at a map. It is a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's known as one of history's most powerful empires, and

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Speaker 1: it grew from a Turkish stronghold in Anatolia into a

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Speaker 1: vast state that at its peak reached as far north

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Speaker 1: as Vienna, Austria, as far east as the Persian Gulf,

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Speaker 1: as far west as Algeria, and as far south as Yemen.

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Speaker 1: It is a huge swath of land, and the Ottoman

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Speaker 1: Empire on its own deserves many episodes. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a very fascinating part of history, but we'll get there

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Speaker 1: another time. Now, let's jump aheads centuries to the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds at the start of World War One. So

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Speaker 1: this whole time, all these centuries, between the sixteenth century

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, the Ottoman Empire was in

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Speaker 1: control of Libya and a lot of other territories surrounding it.

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Speaker 1: But at the start of World War One, the Ottoman

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Speaker 1: Empire was already in decline. The Ottoman army met with

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Speaker 1: a disastrous defeat in the Italio Turkish War, that was

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Speaker 1: between nineteen eleven and nineteen twelve and the Balkan Wars

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Speaker 1: between nineteen twelve and nineteen thirteen, and both of these

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Speaker 1: defeats resulted in the Ottomans being driven out of North

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Speaker 1: Africa and nearly out of all of Europe. The Ottoman

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Speaker 1: Empire officially ended in nineteen twenty two when the title

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Speaker 1: of Ottoman Sultan was eliminated. Again, this was only a

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Speaker 1: century ago, nWo. We think everything happened so long ago,

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Speaker 1: but a century isn't that long. And uh, I feel

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Speaker 1: like maybe the word empire makes something seem very far away,

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Speaker 1: but it really wasn't. And maybe this is just a

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Speaker 1: little prequel to me talking with the Ottoman Empire in

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Speaker 1: a future episode. Who knows if that'll ever happened. Stay tuned,

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Speaker 1: I suppose anyway. Turkey was declared a republic on October

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Speaker 1: twenty nine of nineteen twenty three, when Mustafa command out

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Speaker 1: of Took, who was an army officer, founded the Independent

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Speaker 1: Republic of Turkey. The Ottoman Empire deserves many episodes on

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Speaker 1: its own, as I said, but let's go back to

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Speaker 1: Libya for today. There was a stretch of time preceding

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Speaker 1: the fall of the Ottoman Empire when Libya was under

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Speaker 1: Italian rule. It started between nineteen eleven and nineteen twelve

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Speaker 1: when Italy sees Libya from the Ottomans and then began

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Speaker 1: a twenty year insurgency against Italian rule. In the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: Libyan resistance grew as the Sanusi dynasty joined in alongside

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Speaker 1: the Mata Campaign. Just a quick little thing about the

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Speaker 1: Sanusi dynasty. It was a Muslim political religious tatica which

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Speaker 1: means a Sufi order and a clan in colonial Libya

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Speaker 1: and the Sudan region, founded in Mecca in eighteen thirty

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Speaker 1: seven by the Grand Sanusi a k A Sanusi a Kabid,

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Speaker 1: the Algerian Muhammad ibn Ali A Sanusi. Sanusi was concerned

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Speaker 1: with what he saw as both the decline of Islamic

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Speaker 1: thought and spirituality and the weakening of Muslim political integrity.

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Speaker 1: I bring this up to note that by the nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenties this dynasty had been around for nearly a century,

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Speaker 1: and so when it joins the Libyan resistance alongside Mata Campaign,

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Speaker 1: it seems very significant. But in ninety one, Italy broke

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Speaker 1: the resistance. The recombination of major armed operations and concentration

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Speaker 1: camps for the rebel population is captured and executed. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, Italy united the provinces as the Colony

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Speaker 1: of Libya and steps up Italian migration as part of

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Speaker 1: an eventual plan for the incorporation of Libya into a

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Speaker 1: greater Italy. In two the Allies oust Italians from Libya,

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Speaker 1: which was then divided into three sections. There was Triplitania

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Speaker 1: in the northwest, Fasan in the southwest, and Syrenica in

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Speaker 1: the east. The French to control of Faysan and the

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Speaker 1: British to control of the remaining Syrenica and Tripolitania. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one, Libya becomes a dependent under King Idris

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Speaker 1: Elsa Nusi, and in fifty six it grants two American

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Speaker 1: oil companies a concession of some fourteen million acres. In

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Speaker 1: sixty one, King DRIs, who was now in power for

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Speaker 1: a decade, opens a one hundred and four mile pipeline

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Speaker 1: which links its important oil fields in the interior to

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Speaker 1: the Mediterranean Sea, and this makes it possible to export

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Speaker 1: Libyan oil for the very first time. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but that last sentence of um being able to export

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Speaker 1: Libyan oil for the time seems like the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the end for me. Again, how do we get here?

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Speaker 1: This is how? Anyway? Let's continue from the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: which introduced the good Daffi era. In nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: King Idris was deposed in a military coup led by

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Speaker 1: Colonel mom Mudaga Daffi. He pursues a pan Arab agenda

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Speaker 1: by attempting to form mergers with several Arab countries, and

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Speaker 1: also introduces state socialism by nationalizing most economic activity, including

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Speaker 1: the oil industry. In nineteen seventy, Libya orders the closure

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Speaker 1: of a British air base in the Buk and the

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Speaker 1: giant US Wheelis Air Force base in Tripoli. Property belonging

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Speaker 1: to Italian settlers is also nationalized. In nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: the national referendum approves the proposed Federation of Arab Republics

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Speaker 1: the f a R, which was comprised of Libya, Egypt

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Speaker 1: and Syria. However, the f a R never really takes off,

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Speaker 1: and in seventy three, Colonel Gaddaffi's declaires a cultural revolution,

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Speaker 1: which includes the formation of people's committees in schools, hospitals, universities,

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Speaker 1: workplaces and administrative districts, and then Libyan forces proceed to

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Speaker 1: occupy the Auzu Strip a northern Chad. In nine Gaddafi

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Speaker 1: writes and publishes the Greek Book, which was a short

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Speaker 1: book setting out the political philosophy of You Guessed It

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Speaker 1: Libyan leader mom Mugga Daffy. It is said to have

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Speaker 1: been inspired in part by the Little Red Book a

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Speaker 1: k A quotations from Chairman Mount Stung. An English translation

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Speaker 1: was issued by the Libyan People's Committee, and a bilingual

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Speaker 1: English slash Arabic edition was issued in London by Martin

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Speaker 1: Brian and O'Keefe in nineteen seventy six. During the Libyan

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Speaker 1: Civil War, copies of this book were burned by anti

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Speaker 1: che Daffi demonstrators in Libya. According to British author and

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Speaker 1: former Greater London Council member George Tremlett, Libyan children spent

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Speaker 1: two hours a week studying this book as part of

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Speaker 1: their curriculum. Excerpts were broadcast every day on television and radio,

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Speaker 1: and its slogans were also found on billboards and painted

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Speaker 1: on buildings in Libya. This book was everywhere and internationally

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Speaker 1: by Lectures and seminars on the Green Book had been

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Speaker 1: held at universities and colleges in France, Eastern Europe, Colombia,

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Speaker 1: and Venezuela. On a state visit to Libya in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Socialist Bolivian President Evo Morales cited the

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Speaker 1: Green Book as a major influence on his political beliefs

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Speaker 1: and policies. The Green Book rejects both capitalism and communism,

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Speaker 1: as well as representative democracy. Instead, it proposes a type

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Speaker 1: of direct democracy overseen by the General People's Committee, which

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Speaker 1: allows direct political participation for all adult citizens. It also

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Speaker 1: talks about the crucial importance of complete freedom of speech.

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Speaker 1: There's also a paragraph in the book about abolishing money

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Speaker 1: that is simil learn to a paragraph and Frederick Engels

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Speaker 1: Principles of Communism. Goodophi wrote, the final step is when

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Speaker 1: the new socialist society reaches the stage where profit and

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Speaker 1: money disappear. It is through transforming society into a fully

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Speaker 1: productive society and through reaching in production a level where

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Speaker 1: the material needs of the members of society are satisfied.

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Speaker 1: On that final stage, profit will automatically disappear and there

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Speaker 1: will be no need for money. As far as the

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Speaker 1: reception of this book goes, though it wasn't great he was.

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Speaker 1: Ambassador David Mack called the book quite jumbled, with various ideas,

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Speaker 1: including quote a fair amount of xenophobia wrapped up in

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Speaker 1: a strange mixture. When I told my mom I was

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Speaker 1: researching Libya, she immediately mentioned this book to me, and

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Speaker 1: she couldn't stop cracking up. She's still in disbelief that

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Speaker 1: a leader wrote something like this and then forced his

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Speaker 1: entire country to read it and basically praise him for it.

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Speaker 1: So that was entertaining to watch, I will say that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, five years later, in seventy seven, Goddaffi declares

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Speaker 1: a people's revolution, changing the country's official name from the

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Speaker 1: Libyan Arab Republic to the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamhadiya.

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Speaker 1: He sets up revolutionary committees and this heralds the start

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Speaker 1: of institutionalized chaos, economic decline, the abusive authoritarian power, and

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Speaker 1: general arbitrary nous. This is a good place to take

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Speaker 1: a little break, so b RB okay, we're back. Before

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Speaker 1: the break, we talked about Daffi declaring a people's revolution

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Speaker 1: and how ultimately all of us led to a lot

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Speaker 1: of chaos and decline and the abuse of authoritarian power.

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Speaker 1: So three years later, in nineteen eighty, Libyan troops intervened

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Speaker 1: in the civil war in northern Chad. This is where

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Speaker 1: the U s decides to insert itself, because it always does.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty one, the Libyan army has a confrontation

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Speaker 1: with the US. The US shoots down to Libyan aircraft,

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Speaker 1: which it said challenged its warplanes over the Gulf of Certa,

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Speaker 1: which was claimed by Libya as its territorial water. In

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Speaker 1: nine four, a British policewoman was shot dead outside the

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Speaker 1: Libyan embassy in London while antich A Daffy protests were

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Speaker 1: taking place. Because of this, the UK breaks off diplomatic

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Speaker 1: relations with Libya entirely. But of course the United States

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Speaker 1: isn't finished yet. It never is. In nine six, the

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Speaker 1: US bombs Libyan military facilities as well as residential areas

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Speaker 1: of Tripoli and Benghazi, killing a hundred and one people.

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Speaker 1: They also bombed Goddaffi's house, which killed his adopted daughter.

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Speaker 1: The US said that these raids were in response to

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Speaker 1: the alleged Libyan involvement in the bombing of a Berlin

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Speaker 1: disco frequented by US military personnel. Just a small tangent

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Speaker 1: about the reported killing of Goaddaffi's adopted daughter, Hannah Goddaffi.

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Speaker 1: This has been something that's drawn quite the controversy over

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Speaker 1: the years. Apparently, Hannah may not have died, or the

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Speaker 1: adoption may have been posthumous, or he may have adopted

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Speaker 1: a second daughter and given her the same name after

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Speaker 1: the first one died. After the Goddaffi family residence, which

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Speaker 1: was in the bab at Aaiza compound and Tripoli, was

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Speaker 1: taken by rebels, The New York Times reported evidence, complete

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Speaker 1: with photographs, of Hannah's life after her declared death, when

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Speaker 1: she became a doctor and worked in a Tripoli hospital.

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Speaker 1: Her passport was reported as showing a birth date of

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Speaker 1: November eleven, making her six months old at the time

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Speaker 1: of the U S raid. In August afterwo thousand eleven,

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Speaker 1: the Daily Telegraph reported on the finding of dental records

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Speaker 1: relating to a Hannah Gaddaffi. This report, which also cites

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Speaker 1: a spotting of Henna by Chinese officials, cites an unnamed

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Speaker 1: Libyan government spokesman as stating that Gaddaffi had adopted a

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Speaker 1: second daughter and named her Hannah in honor of the

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Speaker 1: first one, who had been killed in the ninety six raid.

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Speaker 1: In September two thousand eleven, the claim that Hannah had

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Speaker 1: been killed in the six bombing was further disputed when

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Speaker 1: a video recorded in nine by Gaddaffi's cameraman Mohammad Adi,

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Speaker 1: was obtained by The Daily Telegraph. In the video, Roncadaffi

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Speaker 1: and other members of the Goddaffi family refer to her

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Speaker 1: by her name while playing football at a campsite. Hannah

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Speaker 1: is rumored to have fled to Algeria with her mother

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Speaker 1: and three siblings. That is some absurd shitt and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring it up because it's such a crazy

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Speaker 1: controversy that probably needs more digging into. But yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: go back to Libya now. As I mentioned in six,

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Speaker 1: the US bombed Libya and killed a hundred and one people,

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Speaker 1: and again the United States said that these raids were

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Speaker 1: in response to the alleged Libyan involvement in the bombing

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Speaker 1: of a Berlin disco frequented by US military personnel. This

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Speaker 1: will become important later on, but anyway, this takes us

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Speaker 1: to December and the Lockerbie plane bombing. Pan AM Flight

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Speaker 1: one oh three was a regularly scheduled pan Am transatlantic

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Speaker 1: flight from Frankfurt to Detroit via a stopover in London

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Speaker 1: and another stopover in New York City on the SPY one.

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Speaker 1: While the aircraft wasn't flight over the Scottish town of Lockerbie,

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Speaker 1: it was destroyed by a bomb that had been planted

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Speaker 1: on board, killing all two hundred and forty three passengers

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Speaker 1: and sixteen crew members and what became known as the

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Speaker 1: Lockerby bombing. Large sections of the aircraft crashed into a

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Speaker 1: residential street in Lockerbie, which killed eleven residents with a

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Speaker 1: total of two hundred and seventy fatalities. It is the

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Speaker 1: deadliest terrorist attack in the history of the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: This bombing, this terrorist attack will come into play later

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Speaker 1: similar to the Disco bombing. So it's very significant and

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Speaker 1: also just a terrible thing that happened. And I didn't

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Speaker 1: know about this being the deadliest terrorist attack in the

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Speaker 1: history of the UK. So just a good important history here.

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Speaker 1: So in nine nine, Libya, Algeria, Morocco and Martania and

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Speaker 1: Tunisia formed the Arab Mogreb Union or simply the Mograb

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Speaker 1: Union in an effort to promote cooperation and economic integration

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Speaker 1: in a common market. It is a political union and

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Speaker 1: economic union trade agreement aiming for economic and future political

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Speaker 1: unity among Arab countries and states that are located primarily

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Speaker 1: in the Mogreb in North Africa. It was envisioned initially

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Speaker 1: by mon Mugga Duffy as a superstate. The Magreb is

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Speaker 1: basically the name for Northwest Africa, which includes the western

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Speaker 1: part of North Africa and the Arab world. Following a

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Speaker 1: three year joint investigation of the Locker rebombing by the

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Speaker 1: FBI and the Dumfries and Galoway Constabulary a k a.

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Speaker 1: The territorial police force responsible for Dumfries in Galloway, Scotland

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Speaker 1: until April one, two thousand thirteen. After this joint investigation

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Speaker 1: with them in the FBI, arrest warrants were issued for

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Speaker 1: two Libyan nationals in November of nine. In response to this,

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Speaker 1: in Nino, the U N imposes sanctions on Libya in

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Speaker 1: an effort to force it's a handover for trial two

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Speaker 1: of its citizens that were suspected of involvement in the

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Speaker 1: Locker be bombing. One of whom of these people was

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Speaker 1: a government employee. More on this later as we go on.

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Speaker 1: In nine four, Libya returns the always was stripped to Chad,

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Speaker 1: which they had been occupying since nineteen seventy three. In

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Speaker 1: nine Godofi expels around thirty thousand Palestinians and protests of

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Speaker 1: the Oslo Accords between the Palestinian Liberation Organization the PLO

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Speaker 1: and Israel. A quick refresher here. There are two Osslo

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Speaker 1: accords that make up the Asslo Accords. The first also

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Speaker 1: accord was signed in Washington, the Sea, and the second

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Speaker 1: one was signed in Tabia, Egypt. They marked the start

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Speaker 1: of the Oslo Process, which was a supposed peace process

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Speaker 1: aimed at achieving a peace treaty based on Resolution two

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Speaker 1: forty two and Resolution three three eight of the United

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Speaker 1: Nations Security Council and fulfilling the quote right of the

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Speaker 1: Palestinian people to self determination. The Oslo Process began after

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Speaker 1: secret negotiations in Oslo, Norway, and resulted in both the

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Speaker 1: recognition of Israel by the PLO and the recognition by

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Speaker 1: Israel of the p l O as the representative of

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian people and as a partner in bilateral negotiations.

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Speaker 1: The vast majority of Arabs and Arab countries disagreed with

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Speaker 1: the Oslo Accords because they viewed it as defeat, as

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Speaker 1: a surrender. My mom explained to me that a lot

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Speaker 1: of Arrows didn't like or trust Yasid Artifact, who was

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Speaker 1: the PLO leader during the Oslo peace process. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people still don't like him to be and much

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Speaker 1: of this dislike stemmed from his signing of the Oslo Accords.

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Speaker 1: He died in two thousand and four at the age

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Speaker 1: of seventy. We'll talk more about good Daffi's relationship to

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Speaker 1: Artifact and how this changed after the Oslo Accords in

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Speaker 1: our next episode, but for now, I'm going to leave

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Speaker 1: you here. Have a have a good day. Goodbye, hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back. It could happen here. It's me again,

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Speaker 1: It's Sharene and we're going to continue our discussion of

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Speaker 1: Libya that we started yesterday. And um, yeah, I hope

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Speaker 1: it's been interesting and I hope it continues to be

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Speaker 1: interesting because I'm not going to stop. Okay, we left

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Speaker 1: off our last episode after we talked about the Aslo

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Speaker 1: Accords about how a lot of people distrusted and didn't

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Speaker 1: like Yasar Rat a fact, who was the PLO leader

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Speaker 1: during the Oslo Accords or the Oslo peace process. Rather

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Speaker 1: mom Mud Gaddaffi was one of those people what disagreed

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Speaker 1: with signing the accords because he viewed it as a surrender,

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Speaker 1: as a defeat, and because of this, Gaddaffi expelled around

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand Palestinians in protest at the Oslo Accords between

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Speaker 1: the p l O a k A the Palestinian Liberation

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Speaker 1: Organization in Israel. So I do think it's notable to

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Speaker 1: mention that before Oslo Gaddaffi was on good terms without

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Speaker 1: a fact. Out of fact, was on a plane and

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Speaker 1: route to Tunisia and he was accompanied by his bodyguards

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Speaker 1: and some assistants. The flight was scheduled to land in

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Speaker 1: the Karifa Oasis air fields southeast of Libya to refuel. However,

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Speaker 1: intense sandstorms impeded the vision of the pilots, who were

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Speaker 1: forced to adjust the flight route. One hour and forty

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Speaker 1: minutes after takeoff, the control tower in the Libyan capital

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Speaker 1: received the following message special flight to Khartoum to Tunists

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Speaker 1: cannot land, we fly on to Estada. We will attempt

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Speaker 1: an emergency landing. Five minutes later, the plane disappeared from

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Speaker 1: Libyan radar screens and wireless telecommunications were off. A state

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Speaker 1: of emergency was declared. International media outlets immediately reported that

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Speaker 1: out of Fats plane had disappeared in the Libyan desert.

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Speaker 1: For approximately fifteen hours. It was thought that the plane

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Speaker 1: had crashed and that out of Fat had died. It

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Speaker 1: turned out, however, that the plane hit a sand dune

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Speaker 1: in the Libyan desert and out of Fat was thrown

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Speaker 1: a distance of thirty meters. The two pilots and the

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Speaker 1: mechanic perished in this accident, and all the passengers were

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Speaker 1: found wounded but alive, including out of Fat. I bring

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Speaker 1: this up only to mention that I found a photo

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Speaker 1: of out of Fat recovering in a hospital after this crash,

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Speaker 1: covered in bandages, and Gaddafi is at his bedside. They're

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Speaker 1: even holding hands in the photo. But that didn't matter

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Speaker 1: to Gadaffi after OSLO, which he viewed again as a

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Speaker 1: sort of betrayal to the Arab world. So back to

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Speaker 1: when Gadaffi expels about thirty thousand Palestinians and protests of

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Speaker 1: Auti Fat signing the OSLO accords, Gaddafi urged other Arab

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Speaker 1: countries to follow his example and send home all Palestinians

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Speaker 1: to expose what he said was Israel's plan to create

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Speaker 1: a Palestinian state in name only. Speaking at a makeshift

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Speaker 1: camp in the desert near the border with Egypt, Ladafi

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Speaker 1: told a crowd of thousands that his expulsion of thousands

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Speaker 1: of Palestinians was the greatest service to the aims of

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Speaker 1: establishing a Palestinian homeland. In the speech, he said, the

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Speaker 1: Zionist plan is to create a Palestine without Palestinians, he said,

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Speaker 1: adding that other Arab countries are taking part in the

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Speaker 1: Zionist plan by allowing the Palestinians to stay in their land.

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Speaker 1: He very publicly criticized atifats signing of the accords with

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Speaker 1: Israel and handing over authority in the West Bank to

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian authority. His speech continued saying, overnight they told

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Speaker 1: us that Israel was no longer the enemy we knew,

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Speaker 1: they said the Palestinian cause was over. And because Libya

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Speaker 1: believes them, it has asked the Palestinians to return to

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Speaker 1: their home. So a little bit passive aggressive there, or

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Speaker 1: maybe are really aggressive nonetheless, he disagreed with also accords

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Speaker 1: and without effect, and a lot of other Arab countries

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Speaker 1: did also. In Gadaffi handed over the two Lockerbie suspects

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Speaker 1: for trial at campsized in the Netherlands after protracted negotiations

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Speaker 1: and UN sanctions. The UN sanctions were suspended and diplomatic

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Speaker 1: relations with the UK was restored after these suspects were

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Speaker 1: handed over for trial. In January two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: the Netherlands finds one of the two Libyans accused of

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Speaker 1: the Lockerbie bombing and Marahi, guilty and sentences him to

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Speaker 1: life imprisonment. He was freed in two thousand nine on

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Speaker 1: compact I shouldn't release grounds before dying of cancer in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve. The other suspect, Bahima, is found

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Speaker 1: not guilty and freed after the trial. In January two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, Libya and the US say they held

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Speaker 1: talks to mend relations after years of hostility over what

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Speaker 1: the Americans termed as Libya's sponsorship of terrorism. A year later,

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Speaker 1: in January two thousand and three, Libya is elected chairman

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Speaker 1: of the UN Human Rights Commission, despite opposition from the

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Speaker 1: US and Human rights groups in August up to thousand

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Speaker 1: and three. Seven months after this, Gaddafi accepted responsibility for

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Speaker 1: the locker by bombing and a letter to the u

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Speaker 1: N Security Council and Libya signed a deal worth two

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Speaker 1: point seven billion dollars and paid compensation to the families

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Speaker 1: of the victims, although he maintained that he had never

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Speaker 1: given the order for the attack. Acceptance of responsibility was

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Speaker 1: part of a series of requirements laid out by UN

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Speaker 1: resolution for sactions against Libya to be lifted. Libya said

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Speaker 1: it had to accept responsibility due to Marati's status as

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Speaker 1: a government employee. In September two thousand and three, a

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Speaker 1: month later, the u N Security Council votes to lift sanctions,

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Speaker 1: and in December of that same year, Libya said it

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Speaker 1: will abandon programs to develop weapons of mass destruction. At

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Speaker 1: this point, Gaddaffi has been in power for many, many decades,

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Speaker 1: and similar to other dictators, he developed a cult of

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Speaker 1: personality and his pictures were seen all over the country

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Speaker 1: with his quotes. Remember the Green Book, Yes, that book.

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Speaker 1: He had been in power for so long and this

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Speaker 1: book was still distributed and praised, and he stayed in power.

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Speaker 1: Like most dictators do. In March up two thousand and four,

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Speaker 1: British Prime Minister Tony Blair visits Libya, and this is

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Speaker 1: the first such visit since nineteen forty three. Gaddafi was

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Speaker 1: clearly working on a return to respectability for Libya, and

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Speaker 1: in August after thousand and four, Libya agreed to pay

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Speaker 1: thirty five million dollars to compensate the victims of the

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Speaker 1: bombing in the Berlin nightclub in n We talked about

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Speaker 1: this briefly in our previous episode when I mentioned that

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Speaker 1: in eighty six the US bombed Libya and killed a

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Speaker 1: hundred and one people and said that these raids were

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Speaker 1: in response to the alleged Libyan involvement of this bombing

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Speaker 1: of a Berlin disco that was frequented by US military personnel.

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Speaker 1: Fast forwarding to where we currently are two thousand and four,

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Speaker 1: Libya has agreed to pay thirty five million to compensate

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Speaker 1: these victims. This is a good place to take our

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Speaker 1: first little break. Don't go anywhere, b RB. Okay, we're back.

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Speaker 1: We're now in January two thousand and five and Libya's

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Speaker 1: first auction of oil and gas exploration licenses heralds the

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Speaker 1: return of US energy companies for the first time in

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Speaker 1: more than twenty years. In February of two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: at least ten people are killed in clashes with police

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Speaker 1: in Benghazi and part of a wave of international protests

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Speaker 1: by some Muslims who are angered by a Danish newspaper

428
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: risk cartoon depictions of the prophet Muhammad. Three months later,

429
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: in May two thousand and six, the US says it

430
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: is restoring full diplomatic ties with Libya, and in two

431
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, a lot of things happen. In two

432
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, first, Libya took over the one month

433
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: rotating presidency of the UN Security Council, marking a huge

434
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: step returning to respectability after decades as a pariah of

435
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: the West. Libya and the US also signed an agreement

436
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: committing each side to compensate all victims of bombing attacks

437
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: on the other citizens. Italian Prime Minister Sylvia Brosconi apologizes

438
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: to Libya for damage inflicted by Italy during the colonial era,

439
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: and they sign a five billion dollar investment deal by

440
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: way of compensation. U S Secretary of State canti Is

441
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: A Rice makes a historic visit in two thousand and eight,

442
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: the highest level US official to visit Libya since nineteen

443
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: fifty three. Rice says relations between the West and Libya

444
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: have entered quote a new phase. In February two thousand

445
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: and nine, Gadaffi is elected Chairman of the African Union

446
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: by leaders meeting in Ethiopia. He sets out the ambition

447
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: of the United States of Africa, even embracing the Caribbean.

448
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: In June of that year, a thousand and nine, Gaddafi

449
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: pays his first state visit to Italy, Libya's former colonial

450
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 1: ruler and trading partner. What a plot twist? Wow? Who

451
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: would have thought a century prior. In two thousand and ten,

452
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: Russia agrees to sell Libya weapons in a deal worth

453
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: one point eight billion dollars. The deal is thought to

454
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: include fighter jets, tanks, and air defense systems. The European

455
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: Union and Libya sign an agreement designed to slow illegal migration.

456
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: That same year, British oil company BP confirms it is

457
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: about to begin drilling off of the Libyan coast. In

458
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, you start to see the seeds of

459
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: an anti Gadaffi uprising, and Libyans rose up against the

460
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: rule of Gaddaffi. And many took up arms. You might

461
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: know that two thousand eleven more the beginning of many

462
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: Arab springs in many countries, including Libya, and I guess

463
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: this is also a good time to remind you that

464
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: Gaddafi was always a dictator and ruled with fear, as

465
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: dictators do. A lot happened in two thousand eleven. In February,

466
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: inspired by revolt in other Arab countries, especially neighbor in

467
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: Egypt and Tunisia, violent protests break out in Benghazi and

468
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: spread to other cities, leading to escalating clashes between security

469
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: forces and anti Goodaffi rebels. The government security forces responded

470
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: by opening fire on the protesters. As an initially peaceful

471
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: protest movement transformed into a fully fledged armed uprising against

472
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: his forty two year rule. Gaddafi pledged to chase down

473
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: the cock roaches and the rats who had taken up

474
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: arms against him quote inch by inch, room by room,

475
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: home by home, alleyway by alleyway, person by person. A

476
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: brutal conflict began, with pro Gaddafi forces and discriminately showing

477
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: civilian areas, arresting thousands of protests, ers and other suspective

478
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: of supporting the opposition, holding many in secret attention and

479
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: carrying out summary executions. In March two eleven, the U

480
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: N Security Council authorizes a no fly zone over Libya

481
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: and air strikes to protect civilians, over which NATO assumes command.

482
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: In the months that follow, Libyan rebels initially captured territory,

483
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: but are then forced back by better armed pro Gadaffi forces.

484
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: In July, the International Contact Group on Libya formally recognizes

485
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: the main opposition group, the National Transitional Council of the NTC,

486
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: as the legitimate government of Libya. In August of thousand eleven,

487
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: Gaddafi goes into hiding after rebels swarm into his fortress

488
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: compound in Tripoli. Let's take our second break here and

489
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: we'll come back and talk more of what happened in

490
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, because it seems like it's the year that

491
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: never ended, b RB, and we're back. So as I

492
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: mentioned before the break in August, at two thousand eleven,

493
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: Gaddaffi went into hiding after the bubbles swarmed his fortress

494
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: compound in Tripoli. In September, the African Union joins sixty

495
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: countries which have recognized the NTC as the new Libyan authority.

496
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: On October two thousand eleven, Gaddaffi is captured and killed

497
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: as rebel fighters take his hometown of Serta after air

498
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: burst bombs are fired from a NATO warplane, considerating dozens

499
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: of Goadaffi fighters. Gaddaffi and other survivors are nearby a

500
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: walled villa compound and soon thereafter they try to escape

501
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: through the fields and two drainage pipes underneath a major

502
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: road nearby. That is where the mus Rata military has

503
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: found them. Musurata is a city in Libya, by the way.

504
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: When militia fighters found good Daffi in his inner circle

505
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: hiding next to the drainage pipes, one of his bodyguards

506
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: threw a hand grenade at them, and this hand grenade

507
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: bounced off the concrete wall and exploded in the midst

508
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: of the leadership circle, killing Gaddaffi's defense minister of Ubucca Unus. Yes,

509
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: actually happened. You had to have been there. This explosion

510
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: sprayed shrapnel that wounded Gaddaffi and others, according to the

511
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: survivors of the incident whom the Human Rights Watch interviewed.

512
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: Gaddafi was immediately set upon by mus Rata fighters, who

513
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: literally wounded him with a bayonet in his butt and

514
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: then began pummeling him with kicks and blows. By the

515
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: time Gaddaffi was loaded into an ambulance and transported to Musrata,

516
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: his body appeared lifeless. It remains unclear whether he died

517
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: from this violence, the shrapnel wounds, or from being shot

518
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: later as some have claimed. Ultimately he died is the point.

519
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: In that same morning of October, ms Ratta militia members

520
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: separately apprehended mon Adoffi's son, must to him he was

521
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: in charge of the military defensive Surta and had led

522
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: the doomed convoy, and he tried to flee from the

523
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: scene of the fighting. Three days later, the NTC declared

524
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: Libya to be officially liberated and the announced plans to

525
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: hold elections within eight months. November thousand eleven, Saifa Islam,

526
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: the fugitive son of former Libyan leader ron Moodgadafi, is captured,

527
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: becoming the last key Gadaffi family member to be seized

528
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: or killed. Between January and March of two thousand and twelve,

529
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: clashes erupt between former rebel forces in Benghazi in a

530
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: sign of discontent with the NTC. The NTC again stands

531
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: for a National Transitional Council, so when Ghazi based NTC

532
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: officials campaign to re establish autonomy for the region, further

533
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: increasing tension with the NTC in Tripoli. In August, this

534
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: transitional government hands power to the General National Congress, which

535
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: was elected in July. There's still significant unrest amongst civilians

536
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: during this time in regards to a net leadership, and

537
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: in February, protests erupt in response to the General National

538
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: Congress's refusal to disband after they decided upon mandate expires.

539
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: In May, the Libyan National Army renegade General Khalifa Hafta

540
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: launches a military assault that includes air strikes against militant

541
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: Islamist groups in Benghazi, and he tries to seize the

542
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: parliament building, accusing the Prime minister at the time, Prime

543
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: Minister Ahmed ma Teg, of being in thrall to Islamist groups.

544
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: In June, Prime Minister mateg resigns after the Supreme Court

545
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: rules his appointment illegal. A new parliament is chosen in elections,

546
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: but the election is marred by a low turnout attributed

547
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: to security fears and boycotts and the Islamists suffer heavy defeat.

548
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: Fighting breaks out between forces loyal to the outgoing g

549
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: n C and a new parliament. In July, the u

550
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: N staff pulls out and the embassy shut down and

551
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: foreigners are evacuated as the security situation deteriorates. Among all

552
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: of this fighting, the Tripoli International Airport is also largely destroyed.

553
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: Unsat As Shadiawa, which was a Solifus Islamist militia and

554
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: al Qaeda aligned group that advocated for the implementation of

555
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: sharia law across Libya see his control of most of

556
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: Benghazi at this time. Later that year, in October, the

557
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: u went on boy to Libya. Bernardina Leone proposed a

558
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: National Unity government for Libya, and this new government was

559
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: to be led by the Presidential Council of fayez As

560
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: Sattage as prime Minister and three deputies from the country's eastern,

561
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,479
Speaker 1: Western and southern regions, as well as two ministers. UN

562
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: Security General ben key Moon visits Libya during this time

563
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: to continue the u N broker talks between the new

564
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: parliament and the government based in Tarbuk and Islamis Libya

565
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: DA Militia's holding Tripoli. The UN says that hundreds of

566
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: thousands of civilians are displaced by these clashes and this

567
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: takes us to but I think we're going to stop

568
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: for today because a lot happens in and Uh, I'd

569
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: rather not split it up into two episodes. So that's

570
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: where I'm going to leave you guys for today, and

571
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: UH you'll hear me tomorrow if you want to Foodbye, Hello,

572
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: and welcome back to It could happen here. You are

573
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,479
Speaker 1: listening to Sharne and our last installment of our Little

574
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: Libya series. We're just gonna jump right back in. Our

575
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: last episode ended off in and Libya when the U

576
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: N Security General Van Ki Moon visited Libya to continue

577
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: U N broker talks between the new parliament that was

578
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: assigned and the government based in Torbrook and the Islamist

579
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: Libya DON militias that were holding Tripoli at this time.

580
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: The UN says that hundreds of thousands of civilians have

581
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: been displaced by clashes. The Islamic State extremist militia then

582
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: seizes control of the port of Journa and eastern Libya

583
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: in January of the Libyan army and Tripoli based Militia

584
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: Alliance declare a partial ceasefire after U N sponsored talks

585
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: in Geneva. In February of Egyptian jets bomb Islamic State

586
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: targets in Derna. A day after the group they're released

587
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: a video showing the beheading of twenty one Egyptian Christians.

588
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: The Libyan army offensive to retake Derna in March of

589
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: that year fails to dislodge the group. The Islamic State

590
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: establishes control over the poort city of Certa, which is

591
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: halfway along the coast between Tripoli and Benghazi. In July,

592
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: a TRIPLEI court sentences Gaddaffi's son say And Islam and

593
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: eight other former officials to death for the crimes committed

594
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: during the twenty eleven uprising against his father. He is

595
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: later freed by an armed group. In January, the UN

596
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: announces a new Tunisia based interim government, but neither Tobruck

597
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: nor Tripoli parliaments agree to recognize its authority. Libyan politician

598
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: Fayez Sarage is now the Chairman of the Presidential Council

599
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 1: of Libya and Prime Minister of the Government of National Accord.

600
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: The Islamic State group attacks Rasla Nuth oil terminal and

601
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: threatens to move on to Brega and Towbrook. In September

602
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: of sixteen, the Libyan National Army of Ralifa Haftad, who

603
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: was described as a renegade general, seizes key oil export

604
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: terminals in East Libya. Haftad is a Libyan American politician,

605
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: military officer, and the commander of a Towbrook based Libyan

606
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: National Army. A year and a half prior, on March second,

607
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: he was appointed commander of the armed forces loyal to

608
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: the elected legislative body, the Libyan House of Representatives. In

609
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: December of pro government forces oust Islamic State militants from

610
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: the coastal town of Surta, which they had seized eighteen

611
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: months previously. In July seventeen, the Islamic State is ejected

612
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: from Benghazi after three years of fighting. A year later,

613
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: in July, Khalifa Hadad claims that his forces are fully

614
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: in control of Derna, the last Islamic stronghold in the

615
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: East and the only city in the region thus far

616
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: outside his control. In April of twenty nineteen, weh DoD,

617
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: a Libyan National Army, advances on Tripoli, sparking clashes with

618
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: the forces of the internationally recognized Government of National Accord.

619
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: In June of the u N back government drives forces

620
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: out of Tarhuna, which was their last stronghold in the

621
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: west of the country near Tripoli. At this point, Fayezes

622
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: Saage had been Prime Minister of the Government of National

623
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: Accord since its installment in as part of a u

624
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: N led political agreement. Fighting was occurring between saage loyalists

625
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: and those who opposed him, and Satage stated that he

626
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: would be stepping down from his position by the end

627
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: of October of This came after a month of protests

628
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: in Tripoli. On October thirty one, however, Al Sadaj rescinded

629
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: his decision to resign, but after the Libyan Political Dialogue Forum,

630
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: he transferred his powers. On March fifteenth of one, so

631
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: in marshaw One Abduhmi and Biba took over as prime

632
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: Minister of the g n A the u N backed

633
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: Government of National Accord in Tripoli. In the Libyan Political

634
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: Dialogue Forum procedure for choosing a unified executive authority to

635
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: lead into the December twenty one Libyan general election, Muhammad

636
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: and Menphi ran on a joint ticket with abdud Hamiddiba

637
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: as Prime Minister and Mussa Elkoni and Abdula Lafi as

638
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: members of the Presidential Council. As Menphee serves as head

639
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: of State. Human Rights Watch reported that hundreds of residents

640
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: in the Libyan town of Tahuna were abducted or reported

641
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: missing between ten and twenty twenty after the local Elkanni

642
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: militia known as the Kenayette, took control of the town.

643
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: In residents reported that the militia off and abducted, detained, tortured, killed,

644
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: and disappeared people who opposed them or were suspected of

645
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: doing so. Some said that the militia also sees private

646
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: property and stole their money. After the armed conflict. In June,

647
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: there was a discovery of mass graves in the town

648
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: of Tarhuna. Libyan authorities said they had retrieved more than

649
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: two hundred bodies from more than five hundred and fifty

650
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: five mass graves as of October of last year. Additionally,

651
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: as of October of last year, the International Organization for

652
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: Migration the IOM, estimated there were almost four hundred thousand

653
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 1: internally displaced people in Libya. Including three hundred thousand people

654
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: displaced since the beginning of the April twenty nineteen conflict

655
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: in Tripoli and the surrounding areas. The displaced include many

656
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: of the forty eight thousand former residents of the town

657
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: of who in eleven were driven out by armed groups

658
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: predominantly from z Rata because of their support for the

659
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: former Baffy government. The spite reconciliation agreements with ms RATA authorities,

660
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: They have been deterred from returning by the massive and

661
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: deliberate destruction of the town and infrastructure between twenty seventeen,

662
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: predominantly by malicious from ms RATA, and the scarcity of

663
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: public services by the g n A. To describe the

664
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: election process in Libya as a clusterfunk would be an understatement,

665
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: and as far as the most recent election or the

666
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: attempt for the most recent election in various postponements have

667
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: resulted from disputes about fundamental rules governing the election, including

668
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: the voting timetable, the eligibility of the main candidates, and

669
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: the eventual powers of the next president and the parliament.

670
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: Its registration for the presidential candidates opened on November seventh

671
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: of last year and lasted until November. In this time,

672
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: several people registered their candidacy, including Zarifa Eslam Cal Daffi,

673
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: the son of the former Libyan leader Momma Daffy, so

674
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: Lifa Hafta, the commander of the Libyan National Army at

675
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: F nine, the chairman of the La Libya party, and

676
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: the current Prime Minister of Hamid de Baba. These men

677
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: all register their candidacy in November of last year, and

678
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: in total, ninety six men and two women registered as candidates.

679
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: A preliminary list of seventy three presidential candidates was released

680
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: by the h n e C the High National Election

681
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: Commission on November. Five candidates were disqualified from the election,

682
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: including study for the La Daffy and a bunch of

683
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: others that I'm not going to say their names because

684
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: I haven't said them yet and you don't need to know,

685
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: but ultimately, Ladafi and a bunch of other people were

686
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: disqualified under Article ten seven of the Electoral Law for

687
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: having been convicted of a crime. Daffi was also disqualified

688
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: under Article seve for not providing a certificate showing a

689
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: clean criminal record. Another candidate, Zeidan, was disqualified under Article

690
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: ten and two for having more than one nationality and

691
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: under Article eleven for not having five thousand supporters. According

692
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: to the electoral law, any appeals against the disqualifications are

693
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: to be decided by the judiciary. On November twenty eight,

694
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: the Tripoli Appeals Court rejected the candidacy of current Prime

695
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: Minister of de Haney Debaba after accepting two appeals against

696
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: his bid. The first appeal was filed by three presidential

697
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: candidates as well as to Libyan Political Dialogue Forum members,

698
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: while the second appeal was filed by presidential candidate Fatty Basha.

699
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: On November thirty, Libyan Field Marshal a k a renegade

700
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: General Khalifa haf Dad was disqualified from the presidential election.

701
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: After these, a we A Court of First Instance accepted

702
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: an appeal against his candidacy. On December one, four candidates

703
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: were disqualified by the h n EC, including Debiba, and

704
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: they were placed back on the ballot by a Tripoli

705
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: a Court of National Appeal. December two, Sayf and sm

706
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: Go Daffy was placed back on the ballot after the

707
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: subad Court of Appeal accepted his appeal against his qualification

708
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: from the list of candidates. See clusterfuck understatement, and then

709
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: on December six, Kadifata returned to the presidential election after

710
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: the Tripoli Court of Appeal rejected in November thirty ruling

711
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 1: by the Lower Zawea Court. Let's take our first break

712
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: for the love of God h B r B and

713
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: we're back. And I don't believe in God, but anyway.

714
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: Days before the first round was scheduled to take place,

715
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: the election was already up in the air, with no

716
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: official list of candidates presented to the public and no

717
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: formal campaigning underway. On December twenty two, the Parliament of

718
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: Libya confirmed the postponement. The chairman of the Election committee said,

719
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: after consulting the technical, judicial and security reports, we inform

720
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: you of the impossibility of holding the elections on the

721
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: day of providing for by the electoral law, and in

722
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: this statement he didn't give a new date. Foreign Policy

723
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: summarized that the causes for the delay were that quote,

724
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: the process was beleaguered by two interrelated issues, differences over

725
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 1: the idea of holding a presidential election in the current

726
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: context and the resulting failure to reach the required consensus

727
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: on a framework for elections. The United Kingdom, France Germany,

728
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: Italy and the United States urged Libya to set a

729
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: new date for the delayed presidential election quickly. The h

730
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: n e C insisted that the House of Representatives is

731
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: responsible for setting a new date. The Speaker of the

732
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: House Representatives said the Election Committee responsible for overseeing elections

733
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: must set a definitive date for postponed presidential and legislative

734
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: polls by the end of January of two, like several

735
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: months ago. The UN Special Advisor on Libya, Stephanie Williams,

736
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: who has pursued a new election date, told the AP

737
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: that it was still quote very reasonable and possible for

738
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: the country's two point eight million voters to cast their

739
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: ballots by June of two, which would be in line

740
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: with the U N brokered roadmap. On January twenty three, two,

741
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: Interim Prime Minister Abdul Debaba called for constitution to be

742
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: established before holding the delayed presidential and parliamentary elections. A

743
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: month later, on February two, Debaba announced a plan to

744
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: hold the elections in June of two. He later proposed

745
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: holding the elections at the end of two so he

746
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: just keeps on postponing it, because why not. You're in power.

747
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: You don't want to give it up. Sure. In July

748
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: of twenty two, the prime Minister, the interim Prime Minister

749
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: Abiba made an unexpected alliance with his former enemy, the

750
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: Eastern warlord renegade general Hadifa haf Dad, in a bid

751
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 1: to cement a fragile ceasefire and end a month long

752
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: oil blockade. Less than three years ago, half Dad self

753
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: dialed Libyan National Army besieged Trivioli in a failed attempt

754
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: to capture the capital. But in this unexpected alliance, in

755
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: a highly symbolic gesture, the Libyan National Army's Chief of

756
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: Staff At Naduti, was invited to visit the city for talks.

757
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: The prospect of de Baiba and haf Dad varying their

758
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: differences was really welcomed by the u N as it

759
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: was struggling to maintain a ceasefire that had ended a

760
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: previous six year civil war in However, barely a month

761
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: later after this extended reconciliation, supposedly on August this year,

762
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: deadly clashes occurred in Libya's capital between militias backed by

763
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: two rival administrations pretending to a return to violence amid

764
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: a long political stalemate In these clashes, at least twenty

765
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: three people were killed and more than a hundred and

766
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: forty people were wounded in the fighting. According to the

767
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: Health Ministry, six hospitals were hit and ambulances were unable

768
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: to reach area affected by the clashes. And the ministry

769
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: said that these effectively are war crimes and they condemned

770
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: these actions. The escalation threatens to shatter the relative calm,

771
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: relative calm taken out with a grain of salt, whatever

772
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: you want that to mean, Libya has had for most

773
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: of the past two years. As we know after listening

774
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: to me talking for all of these millions of minutes,

775
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: Libya was sent into chaos after and NATO backed uprising

776
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: that toppled and killed long time autocrat Rond Goaddaffi in

777
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: Obviously Gadaffi was also bad, not saying that, but if

778
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: things were or to chaotic during good Daffi and before Gaddaffi,

779
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: taking him out in the way that he was taken

780
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: out only led to more chaos, So the instability only

781
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: got worse. The clashes that are happening pitted the Tripoli

782
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: Revolutionaries Brigade militia led by hathum To Judy against another

783
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: militia allied with Abda Rani, who was an in famous

784
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: war lord known as Raniwa. This is according to local media.

785
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Debaba's government, which is based in Tripoli, claimed

786
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: that the clashes broke out when one militia fired at another.

787
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: The fighting, however, as highly likely part of an ongoing

788
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: power struggle between INTERIMPM Debaba and his rival, Prime Minister

789
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: Fati Bashaka, who is operating from the coast city of Surta.

790
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: Both Baiba and Bashaka are backed by militias, and the

791
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: latter was mobilizing in recent weeks to try to enter

792
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: Tripoli to dislodge his rival. An attempt in May by

793
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: Bashaka to install his government in Tripoli triggered clashes that

794
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: ended with his withdrawal from the capital. The US Ambassador

795
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: to Libya, Richard Norland, urged for de escalation before quote

796
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: things get worse, and he also urged for the Libyan

797
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,479
Speaker 1: parties to agree on an early date for elections. Prime

798
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: Minister to Baba's hold on power is very precarious. In

799
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: July of this year, protests erupted in nine cities against

800
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: corruption and power cuts. Debba was originally installed again as

801
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: a temporary prime minister to run the country until the

802
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: elections were due last December, but he hasn't given up

803
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: that power because power is a disease, and when those

804
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: elections were canceled amid constitutional arguments, he obviously decided to

805
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: stay in power. And this is despite Libya's parliament demanding

806
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: that he stepped down. So, as we've learned in this

807
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: brief history of this country, Libya has been racked with

808
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: internal divisions and instrument civil war conflict since the armed

809
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: uprising of eleven of the longtime dictator La Daffi, and

810
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: while international efforts to bring rival administrations together in a

811
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: unity government succeeded in early this only created a fragile piece.

812
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: The proliferation of weapons and autonomous militias, flourishing criminal networks,

813
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: the interference of regional powers, and the presence of extremist

814
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: groups have all contributed to the country's persistent lack of

815
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 1: physical security. More than a decade of violence has displaced

816
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people, and human rights conditions have

817
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: steadily deteriorated. The ceasefire I mentioned earlier was due to

818
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: an occurrence in sixteen when forces loyal to Ralife Rail

819
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: attempted Akutata against fayaz As Sage and the Presidential Council

820
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: of the g NA. So in the Joint Libby and

821
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: Military Commission that represented the l n A and the

822
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: g n A, they reached a permanent ceasefire agreement in

823
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 1: all areas of Libya. The agreement was effective immediately and

824
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: it required that all foreign fighters leave Libya within three months,

825
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: while a joint police force would patrol disputed areas, and

826
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: the first commercial flight between Tripoli and Benghazi took place

827
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: that same day. On March tenth, and Interimmunity Government was

828
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: formed and it was slated to be in power as

829
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: we know until the president election. But it's still in

830
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: power now. So when when I'm talking about those peaceful

831
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 1: quote unquote two years, I'm talking about this time between

832
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: this permanent ceasefire in and now. And despite improvements following

833
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: the ceasefire that was broken in October of political and

834
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: military violence has remained common. Human rights violations are widespread

835
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: and this includes unlawful killings and forced disappearances and arbitrary detentions.

836
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: These conditions are further affected by the presence of various

837
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: armed groups thousands of foreign mercenaries, a large migrant population

838
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: and mass internal displacement, and so Libya has been in

839
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: a tumultuous state since the start of the Arab Spring

840
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: related the Libyan Crisis. Of the crisis resulted in the

841
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: collapse of the Libyan Arab Dheria and the killing of

842
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: Rommdga Daffi amidst the First Civil War of Libya and

843
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: the foreign military intervention. The crisis was deepened by the

844
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 1: fact sal violence in the aftermath at the First Civil War,

845
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 1: and this resulted in the outbreak of the second Civil

846
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: War that happened in the Control over the country is

847
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: currently split between the House Representatives in Towbrook and the

848
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: Government of National Unity in Tripoli and their respective supporters,

849
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: as well as various jihaddest groups and tribal elements controlling

850
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: parts of the country. And as we've learned, the violent

851
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: protests are continuing to go on today and the country

852
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: remains in a state of unrest to say the least.

853
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: But I think this information is a good foundation to

854
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: serve as a starting point if we talk about Libya

855
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: going forward to really understand how this country came to

856
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 1: be so unstable, because like most countries that are experiencing upheaval.

857
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: It's usually because of a lot of different powers buying

858
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: for control, international powers intervening, and just a lot of

859
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: cluster fucking stuff that results in cluster fuck enus. So, Um,

860
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: that's where we're going to end for today. I hope

861
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: this was informative and I hope you appreciate some of

862
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: the history. I definitely do. So. Yeah, until next time,

863
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: go drink some water and stay hydrated and go head

864
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: a dog. You should never say how I mistook one part.

865
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: You can send those on a recording, rubbit. It's okay.

866
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: It's with a president, so we can't be there. M

867
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have done. That's Jimmy Cotton, dude. Well he's

868
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: never recovered, man. Yeah, you can see it in his

869
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: eyes when he tried to rebuild those houses. Welcome to

870
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: It could happen here the podcast where one of us

871
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: committed a crime against Jimmy Carter, former president of the

872
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: United States. Um, that might actually get us in trouble

873
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: with the Secret Service, but you know what it's happening.

874
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: It's happening, James. Well, they're gonna have to figure out

875
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: which one it was. Yes, and that of course, second

876
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: voice James Stout, who might wind up in Guantanamo for

877
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: this because he's he's not a US citizen. But I

878
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: feel pretty safe, and I feel like our guest for

879
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: today is pretty safe. And I would like to introduce

880
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: Stephen Manicelli. Uh. Stephen, you work for and are an

881
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: editor at Protein Magazine. You've written for The Rolling Stone,

882
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: You've written for a bunch of people, Dallas Voice, a

883
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: number of different UM news websites, magazines, and you have

884
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: been spending a big chunk of the last year or

885
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 1: so in the streets in Dallas reporting on the escalating

886
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: series of well, hopefully not escalating. I guess time will

887
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: tell on that. But the series of right winging UM,

888
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: I don't even want to I don't want to dignify

889
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: them by calling them protests, but like right wing organized

890
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: attempts to intimidate UH and spark violence at LGBT events

891
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: in the DFW area, and some of the left wing

892
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: protest counter against that, which has involved groups like the

893
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: elm Fork John Brown Gun Club, who we've had on

894
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: the show a few times, and has involved groups of

895
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: armed leftists kind of UM in opposition to groups of

896
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: armed right wingers. UM. Now, Stephen, the specific reason we're

897
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: talking today is you were just the other day part

898
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: of a panel put on by the Cato Institute, which

899
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: is a libertarian think tank, titled Domestic Extremism and Political

900
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: Violence the Threat to Liberty UM. Your fellow panelists were

901
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: Mike German Mike is a former FBI agent who went

902
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: undercover against the far right UM and now works for

903
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: the Brennan Center. And Christopher Wiles, who is a professor

904
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: of English and a director of American Studies at the

905
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: Universe City of Connecticut and wrote the u s Anti

906
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: Fascism Reader. UM. Now, this was interesting for a number

907
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: of reasons. Kind of in the lead up to this event,

908
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: the kate I Institute published a graphic that showed a

909
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: number of domestic armed organizations UM. And so in the

910
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: same graphic you had groups like the Proud Boys and

911
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: Patriot Front, as well as groups like Yellow Peril Tactical

912
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: and the ELM Fork, John Brown Gun Club and the

913
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: Socialist Rifle Association. Prior to the event, this sparked a

914
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: bit of frustration from the left and some people suspecting

915
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: that this was going to be kind of geared towards

916
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: attacking left wing armed groups and smearing them, you know,

917
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: as violent extremists in the same way that the Proud

918
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: Boys are. Uh, that is not what happened. Um, And

919
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna open the floor up to you, Stephen, thank

920
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: you for being on the show. Hey, thanks for having me.

921
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that this is not sort of a

922
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: critic criticism session that I'm gonna be sitting with y'all

923
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: on In terms of yeah, my participation with a I

924
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: hestitate to even use the word libertarian because of the

925
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: historical definition of the term, but you know, conservative libertarian whatever,

926
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: big L versus small L. I don't. Yeah, we could

927
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: call them a right libertarian think to their rough bodies,

928
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: right like literally founded by rough body. Yeah, they love

929
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: them some Rothbard. Um didn't they like excommunicate him or

930
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: something though? At Okay, I couldn't. I don't. I'm not

931
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: deep on the lower one thing. If you're doing my

932
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: favorite meme with the two hands meeting in the middle middle,

933
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: left libertarians and right libertarians have excommunicating members. Murray Rothbart

934
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: is on an isle exile Murray Rothbart and Mary Books

935
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: and united and cancelation. So yeah, I guess I'm not

936
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: being canceled, which is is good UM. And so yeah,

937
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: they had reached out to me in stept Timber about

938
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: being on this panel, and they had mentioned UM the

939
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: other guests, and frankly I was intrigued because you know,

940
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: if people want to pay attention to the growing threat

941
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: of fascism, I think that's pretty neat. And it seemed

942
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: like an opportunity to do the thing that Glenn Greenwald

943
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: claims that he does when he goes on Tucker Carlson,

944
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: which is like reaching out to an audience that doesn't

945
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: already agree with the things that I think UM, because

946
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: he just goes on because their pals and they already

947
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: all agree. So UM, I digress. I thought it was

948
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: maybe an interesting forum and and I was really interested

949
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: to hear UM from the other panelists, in particular UM

950
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: because I had looked at what Mike German had written

951
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: after his service in UM the FBI and as well

952
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: as the author of the Anti Fascist Handbook, and I thought, well,

953
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: if if Kato has invited all three of us, it's

954
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: it's not gonna go too off the rails and terms

955
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: of UM, you know, sort of the false equivalency problems

956
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: or it just becoming a session to bash on groups

957
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: that aren't really the part of the problem. Interestingly enough,

958
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: the primary amount of bashing that went on was Mike German,

959
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: former f by FBI h repeatedly viciously criticizing the police

960
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: and the FBI for their complicity with far right street movements. Yeah,

961
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: Mike's been pretty consistent, I spoken for like a couple

962
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: of years, and I'm sure you people are probably aware

963
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: of his presence by now, but he's been pretty consistent

964
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: on bashing defense for failing to act on white supremacy

965
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: for decades. And it's very It's there's a number of

966
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: reasons this is interesting that we'll we'll be getting back into,

967
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: but I really do recommend people take a listen to

968
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: this conversation between y'all. Among other things, there's there's some

969
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: good history in there. We'll talk about a couple of

970
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: things that got introduced that I don't ad percent agree with.

971
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: That there's some good history in there, and I think

972
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: more to the point, you get a lot of updates

973
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: from your report in Dallas and a lot of kind

974
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: of summaries of that which I find very valuable and

975
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: think will be valuable to people who have maybe been

976
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: following it less. And then also it's really interesting to

977
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: get Mike's perspective as someone he was in It was

978
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: late eighties, early nineties, he was doing a lot of

979
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: undercover stuff on the West Coast and neo Nazi movements. UM,

980
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: and so hearing him discuss the way in which the

981
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: FBI s programs targeted at the far right work and

982
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: don't work was really interesting to me. Oh. Absolutely, that

983
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: was the sort of the side of the story that

984
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: I knew the least about. UM. Christopher Viles, the professor,

985
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: the guy who wrote the handbook, UM, you know, I

986
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: think he provided a very important set of historical information

987
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: that kind of helped iron out some of the issues

988
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: in terms of the framing craps. Yes, and some of

989
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: the inconsistencies which I think we can dive into a

990
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: little bit, or rather inaccuracies that kind of got slipped

991
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: by UM and we weren't really able to address in

992
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 1: the course of the conversation. But hearing him just put

993
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: it so bluntly kind of took the wind out of

994
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: me in a good way where I was like, I

995
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: don't I don't have anything else to add here, No, notes,

996
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: um because he really made the point that yes, some

997
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: of these organizations were cannon glove with police officers at

998
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: the local level, even at the federal level. He's witnessed it.

999
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: He has a number of experiences that he cited where

1000
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: the FBI is basically saying, uh, do not talk about

1001
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: your case is involving white supremacists and these similar type

1002
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: of groups, because there are people in the agency who

1003
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: are sympathetic. Um And I think that's kind of why

1004
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: I ended up on the panel because in part the

1005
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: story that I've been covering around here with this harassment

1006
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: campaign over the past few months of lgbt Q groups

1007
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: and events, part of the story is that policing has

1008
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: not really done anything to prevent uh you know, this

1009
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: incitement and harassment from continuing and occasionally turning violent. Not

1010
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: in the sense of weapons being used other than bear

1011
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: me so far, but in the sense the physical violence

1012
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: and uh you know, slurs and violent threats being hurled

1013
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: at people. UM. So, I I think that Mike's points

1014
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: for really timely and well said, and frankly, he's the

1015
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 1: kind of person that they needed to come from because

1016
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: otherwise they just kind of get smacked away as leftist

1017
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: talking point by people who probably have some internal biases

1018
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: or prejudices, prejudices that prevent them from engaging with it

1019
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: when it comes from the wrong person in the wrong way.

1020
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: And there were a number of interesting kind of discussions happening.

1021
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: One of the thing that I was happy about is that, well,

1022
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: the initial framing, I think there was a lot of

1023
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: fear that all of these left wing groups, we're going

1024
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: to get lumped in with groups that have, to put

1025
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: it bluntly, tried to overthrow democracy. Um. Right, we should

1026
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: point out that that's how the FBI does do it, right,

1027
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: like they for instance, the group white supremacists with like

1028
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: black identity groups, is racial identity extremists or statistics that

1029
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: way like that, That's that's how the FEDS see this.

1030
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, they didn't, which is which is good. It's

1031
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: like a form of obfuscation to do so. And um,

1032
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, why would they do that. Well, maybe there's

1033
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: a few reasons they might do that, especially if you

1034
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: ask someone like Mike um, and you know, it's such

1035
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 1: a blind spot for obvious the ideological reasons for so

1036
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: many people involved. Yeah, and it's it's Um, it was

1037
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: interesting because there was this bit in the middle of

1038
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: it where Mike, you know, being a former fed, walked

1039
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: through kind of like, well, it makes sense to me,

1040
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: given the fact that law enforcement is not able to

1041
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: be trusted in a lot of instances and often is

1042
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: working hand in glove with these far right groups that

1043
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: want to harm marginalize people, that they would seek to

1044
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: arm themselves. Um. And that prompted from the the fellow

1045
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: who was actually um kind of the organizing the the event,

1046
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: Patrick Eddington, who's a senior fellow at the Cato Institute,

1047
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: him to point out and he was I would have

1048
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 1: to say broadly fair um. And generally he seemed a

1049
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: little bit kind of um uh. He he had this

1050
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: attitude you all, you get sometimes around libertarians where he

1051
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: was like there was a moment where he was like, well,

1052
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm glad some on the left to finally started accepting

1053
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: the Second Amendments and stuff like that. Um. But but

1054
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 1: he had a he had a moment where he expressed

1055
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: a concern, UM, which was his fear about the possibility

1056
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: that if you keep having these events, at some point

1057
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: you're going to have two groups of people who are

1058
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: armed shoot at each other, um, which is we have.

1059
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: We've been right up to that line. You have had

1060
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: exchanges of fire, just thinking. In Portland, you had a

1061
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: moment where as a single right wing individual with a

1062
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: handgun fired into a group of people, thankfully didn't hit

1063
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: any two people in the anti fascist side fired back

1064
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: and forced him to flee. Um, you had a moment

1065
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: earlier this year in Portland where a right winger shot

1066
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: into a group of unarmed people doing traffic security, killed

1067
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: a sixty one year old woman, wounded I think five

1068
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: other people, and then was shot and stopped by a leftist. Um,

1069
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: you obviously had Um a proud boy while a member

1070
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: of Patriot Prayer shot and killed during an altercation, but

1071
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 1: not an exchange of fire. The only person who fired

1072
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: was the person who killed that that individual. So none

1073
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: of those are quite two groups of people with guns

1074
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: exchanging fire, you know, in a sustained way. Uh, none

1075
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: of those even entirely approached kind of what happened at

1076
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: like Greensville. But they're all on that spectrum. And while

1077
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: I think this guy there's a degree to which he's

1078
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: kind of spooked at seeing leftists with guns, I do

1079
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: think that that's a reasonable thing to be concerned with

1080
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: because when and if we hit that point, it's going

1081
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: to be an inflection moment for I think the entire country,

1082
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: right right. I think the reality is that most normal people,

1083
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: whatever you want to use the word to describe them,

1084
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: people aren't brain poisoned and plugged into the internet and

1085
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 1: about all these things or or having to deal with

1086
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: them and are affected by them in real life. They

1087
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: might see these groups and just cast them all under

1088
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 1: the same umbrella. You know, there's a good meme I

1089
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: chuckled at that came out afterwards, where it had had

1090
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: the slide showing on all of the groups, the right

1091
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: wing groups and the left and groups sort of armed

1092
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,839
Speaker 1: groups in you know, the United States, and then replacing

1093
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: them all with just domestic cleaning products. Like, yes, they

1094
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: all have something in common. They have weapons, and they're

1095
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: armed to some degree, but beyond that, they all have

1096
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 1: distinctions and we shouldn't drawn equivalency. And I think, you know,

1097
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: Mike did a very elegant job of drawing that distinctionaries

1098
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: as these people not only have a right to defend themselves,

1099
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: but they probably have a good reason to given all

1100
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: of these things. He was basically writing the lyrics to

1101
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: rage against the Machine song, and um, I was a

1102
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: little astonished by that, and he made a very clear

1103
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: point to say, like, yeah, there are people who are

1104
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: aggressors and there are people who aren't. We can find

1105
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: a distinction in that. And if we're just now getting

1106
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: concerned about this violence, well maybe we should ask why

1107
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: we've had such a big blind spot for so long.

1108
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: And he got right to the core of it. It's

1109
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: these ideologies deeply baked into our institutions of white supremacist

1110
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 1: right supremacy, uh, basically all the way back to colonization,

1111
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: and you know, dealing with that is necessary for us

1112
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 1: to deal with the broader problem. And I think he

1113
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: was very clear to say, like the things that were

1114
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: required to get to that point of like a potential

1115
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: shootout would be a total breakdown in policing. And so

1116
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 1: he played place the blame at the feet of the police,

1117
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: practically said it's their goddamn fault that people feel the

1118
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 1: need to do this, because if they just focused on

1119
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: the crimes that Proud Boys commit in the Dallas area, uh,

1120
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, basically minor assaults and stuff, they would trace

1121
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: it back to the people that are committing them, and

1122
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 1: they would cut down on these escalations because the same

1123
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: people are the ones that show up to these events

1124
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 1: time and time again. It's worth rub you talk about

1125
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: like an inflection point, right, and and we spoke about

1126
01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: like failures in policing too. I think part off there

1127
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 1: reason that we see things are super duper exceptional right

1128
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 1: now is the way that we teach history in schools here.

1129
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 1: And part of the things we don't teach are like

1130
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 1: that this has happened before, right, like the Battle of

1131
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: Hayes Pond being a paramount example. If we look at

1132
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: the like the standoff at Wounded Knee or the second

1133
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: Battle of Wounded Knee, or whatever you want to call it,

1134
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: and throughout the civil rights movement, right there's a book

1135
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: by Rob Williams about a contemporary book about the use

1136
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 1: of firearms in the Civil rights movement that people can

1137
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 1: read like all of this stuff did happen then. And

1138
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: this same tension that we're feeling now about like a

1139
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 1: society putting itself apart and when it leads to a

1140
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: civil war also happened then and people felt this then

1141
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 1: two and we we well, the progress was made at

1142
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 1: that time. We didn't fix everything, right, like that's why

1143
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: we're having this discussion now. But like, I think the

1144
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: fact that we've removed so much of the specifically the

1145
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 1: violence and the use of guns from our discussion with

1146
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 1: the civil rights movement sometimes leads us to see what's

1147
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: happening now was like really particularly exceptional, and it's not like, yeah,

1148
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: it's always been the case of marginalized folks that have

1149
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: resorted to the same tools that he used to oppress

1150
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 1: them to defend themselves. And why wouldn't they write, like

1151
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: like Mike said, like Steve said, there's a very good

1152
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: and clear reason for oppressed people to want to defend

1153
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: themselves in their communities. The only analog that we were

1154
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: able to bring up in the conversation is like the

1155
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: pink pink panthers, pink panthers, which was, you know, something

1156
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: that a lot of people don't know about, And we

1157
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: did get a little bit of opportunity to discuss, you know,

1158
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 1: the black panthers and how community defense is a different

1159
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 1: set of reasons for arming yourself and having knowledge of

1160
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: the Second Amendment and all those sorts of things. Then

1161
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, going outside an event hosted by an organization

1162
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: you have no interest in belonging to wearing your guns

1163
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: on your body to send a message. That's a very

1164
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: menacing form of free speed. And I think another good

1165
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 1: moment to bring up when we talk about this would

1166
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: be the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen, which was a

1167
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: series of race riots targeting black people in the United

1168
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: States that also involved large groups and communities, particularly in cities,

1169
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: of Black Americans taking up arms and defending themselves. Um

1170
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,560
Speaker 1: and and was fairly enormous, and it's deftyal hundreds and

1171
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: hundreds of people were killed. Um It's it's really a

1172
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: pretty nightmarish moment in history. But it's the thing when

1173
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: you have groups and we're about to have someone on

1174
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: from from Yellow Parel tactical, when you have groups that

1175
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 1: are specifically organizing and saying like we are organizing, we

1176
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 1: are teaching skills for people to become armed because we

1177
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:45,680
Speaker 1: are afraid that we and people like us will be victimized.

1178
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: It's stuff like the Red Summer that they're directly looking at.

1179
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: It's not theoretical, you know. Yeah, you're Frank carl Um

1180
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: from Arranged TV have some good videos about a lot

1181
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: of these different things. If people are interested in looking

1182
01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: them up. Yeah, um, and I think probably we should

1183
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: bring on our next guest for tonight. Uh and and

1184
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: Stephen will be staying on as well. Snow from Yellow

1185
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: Peril Tactical. Snow, do you want to introduce yourself and

1186
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: your organization for folks who may not be as as

1187
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 1: familiar with the stuff as we are. We we briefly

1188
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 1: covered y'all a little bit earlier in this but yeah,

1189
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. My name is Snow. My pronouns

1190
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: the sheet or they, and I am one of the

1191
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 1: many members of Yellow Peril Tactical. We are a collective

1192
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: of leftist Asian Americans under the shared ideology of being

1193
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 1: anti authoritarian. Um. And we talk about all sorts of things,

1194
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: but particularly how to develop firearms skills and also community

1195
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: defense and the occasional ship post and Uh. First questions,

1196
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:56,719
Speaker 1: because we're talking about this Cato Institute things that Stephen

1197
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 1: was on. Have you had a chance to listen to

1198
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: that yet since y'all watched it twice and I have

1199
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: or paid notes? Yeah? Yeah, why why don't we start here? Yeah?

1200
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 1: Go off? You know, Okay, Like the chat was lit.

1201
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: When we first saw that we were mentioned, we were like, Wow,

1202
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: we fucking made it because originally we started as a

1203
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 1: ship post account and then we were like, oh, people

1204
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: actually care, um, And this is just one of those

1205
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: moments where, uh, I don't know, it felt like really

1206
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: surreal that Kato would even give a funk about us,

1207
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 1: because we do all of this in our free time.

1208
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: You know, this is like nobody pays us right, um.

1209
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: And so we had a lot of skepticism going into it, um.

1210
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: And in a sense, uh, we're a bit on the

1211
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: defensive kind of preparing for a lot of false equivalent

1212
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: rhetoric um and a lot of just like I don't know,

1213
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: maybe like orientalism as we all um, just given the

1214
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 1: history of how like Westerners have viewed Asian culture um.

1215
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 1: But ultimately, like the consensus has been that we were

1216
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised of how balanced it was. I thought overall

1217
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: it was very intriguing, and I got some good some

1218
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 1: good quotes written down, But I don't know if you

1219
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: want to go into those now or later or what?

1220
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 1: Can we start with having I really want to like

1221
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 1: anchor this in having you explained what community defense means,

1222
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,800
Speaker 1: like so people can understand why, and then we can

1223
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: go from what people say to you yeah. Um, So

1224
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 1: earlier y'all were talking about, like, um, the nineteen nineteen

1225
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 1: riots and actually reminded me of like the Pacific Coast

1226
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: Race riots of nineteen seven, and a bunch of were

1227
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 1: like murdering and committing violence against Asian people, right, And

1228
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: nineteen o seven was not that long ago. Um. And

1229
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: in a sense, it never has gone away. Um. And

1230
01:16:56,240 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, I think um Chris File said it put

1231
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 1: it nicely when he was like, you know, in the

1232
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: backdrop of a lot of anti Asian violence. Um, it's

1233
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 1: just that it's been a lot more prevalent among Asians specifically.

1234
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 1: That doesn't stop you know, like Boba liberalism, identity politics

1235
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: from happening where there's not like a grand division of

1236
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 1: like what's going on at large. Um. But we know

1237
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: that like our communities are under attack and the cops

1238
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: don't give a funk about us, and if anything, they

1239
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: just make it worse most of the time. Uh. And

1240
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 1: so it's truly up to us because you know, cops

1241
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 1: don't prevent crime. They come after and they funk it up. Um.

1242
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: And it's not something that has come easily to me personally.

1243
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 1: I've been in denial about it. For a lot of

1244
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: years around thinking like if I just avoid going out

1245
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,639
Speaker 1: late at night, if I am always walking with a buddy,

1246
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: if I just you know, spend twenty minutes looking for

1247
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: a closer part working spot, it'll prevent me from being harmed.

1248
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:07,680
Speaker 1: And ultimately, like that's just me being in denial, um.

1249
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 1: And part of it another realization is like being strapped,

1250
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: I can seal carry every day. That's not going to

1251
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: deter someone from attacking me because of how I look

1252
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 1: without doxing myself. I just look alternative, right, um. And

1253
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 1: knowing that that puts me at risk has never deterred

1254
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 1: me from wanting to express myself with how I look.

1255
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: But I know the risks and that doesn't stop people

1256
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: from me. But part of it is like I'm not

1257
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: going down without a fucking fight, Like my ancestors have

1258
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 1: come too fucking far. We kicked out the French, we

1259
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 1: kicked out the US, right, and now I'm in their turf.

1260
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 1: I've infiltrated the wire, but that doesn't mean but you know,

1261
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that it's going to stop them from

1262
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 1: harming us. Um. And you know, we know that we

1263
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: can't live in a fever dream where every single fascist

1264
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: on this planet will be gone. Um, but at the

1265
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: very least, like my life goal is to make them

1266
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: think twice. And I'm scared a little bit. It's interesting

1267
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 1: because you you bring up sort of what I think

1268
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,679
Speaker 1: is a really good point, which is that like, even

1269
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 1: if you're if you're in your day to day life,

1270
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 1: the fact that you're carrying a gun isn't going to

1271
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 1: stop somebody from starting, you know, an interaction with you

1272
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 1: that could turn violent because you just look the way

1273
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 1: that you look. I do want to talk a little

1274
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: bit about what's kind of the opposite thing, and it

1275
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: is sort of part of why I think folks were

1276
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,560
Speaker 1: a little on edge when this event got announced and

1277
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,799
Speaker 1: you know that graphic came out that had as we've discussed,

1278
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: the Yellow Peril tactical alongside you know, these these these

1279
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 1: other groups. And there's one of the things that kind

1280
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 1: of results from the way gun culture works is that

1281
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 1: there's a very recognizable kind of um uniform um that

1282
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: you see, particularly you've seen it with the Boogleoo Boys,

1283
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 1: you see it with groups like the Proud Boys. It's

1284
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 1: the it's the thing where you've got a plate carrier,

1285
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: a belt, you know, an a are some other kind

1286
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 1: of long gun helmets and and usually other tactical gear

1287
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 1: on it um. And this kind of this outfit so

1288
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: to speak, has kind of evolved over time. It really

1289
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 1: is a result of the War on Terror, and it's

1290
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 1: both an aesthetic choice and there's a huge number of

1291
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: companies that exist, particularly on the right to provide people

1292
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,680
Speaker 1: with aesthetic options for kind of having all of this

1293
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 1: gear that are are sort of ideologically simple simpatico with

1294
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 1: them um. But it's also just actually a practice. Well

1295
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: some of this stuff is less practical than others, but

1296
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: the basics of the of the get up exist because

1297
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: it's what worked, right. There's one of the things people

1298
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:53,680
Speaker 1: noted when the Taliban took back over in Afghanistan is

1299
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 1: that all of their special operations guys were dressed the

1300
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: same way that US fighters, just because it's just what works.

1301
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:02,639
Speaker 1: You see the same outfits on Ukrainian and Russian spec

1302
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: ops guys um. And one of the things when we

1303
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: when we're looking at kind of domestically, when you have

1304
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 1: people who are organizing and going out in the world

1305
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 1: armed as part of a public event, is that to

1306
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 1: people who are not familiar with what's going on, it

1307
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 1: can be hard to tell them about sometimes, and that

1308
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,560
Speaker 1: is that strikes me the thing that the left particularly

1309
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: needs to deal with because both in kind of in

1310
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 1: the media and also out in the field, you don't

1311
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: want to be mistaken for groups like the Proud Boys

1312
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 1: and Steve and I want to start kind of with

1313
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:38,639
Speaker 1: you here because I think you're you're reporting has always

1314
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: done a really good job of kind of making that

1315
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 1: difference clear. If you kind of have any thoughts on that,

1316
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 1: and then we'll we'll go back to you snow. I

1317
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:50,879
Speaker 1: think that's a really interesting problem, the proliferation of tactical

1318
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: um aesthetics and the ideological sort of turn in the

1319
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: production of weaponry and accessories. I mean, there's like goddamn

1320
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 1: tactical eight franchises, which is making me lose my mind

1321
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. Um and that is a

1322
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: is a real distinct thing that I see all the

1323
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: time around here, and and I think there's subtle things

1324
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 1: that groups do to try to distinguish themselves. Obviously are patches,

1325
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,040
Speaker 1: but in order to see a patch, you have to

1326
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 1: be close enough to someone in order to even find

1327
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: it legible. So then okay, you have flags, but then

1328
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,799
Speaker 1: you also have to know what these flags are. Something

1329
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 1: that some groups around here have done when they're you know,

1330
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 1: sort of protecting an LGBTQ event is still have um

1331
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: flags affiliated with the LGBTQ movement, but once again you

1332
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:52,240
Speaker 1: have to know what those are. And one more people

1333
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 1: know what those are these days, so that's a way

1334
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,560
Speaker 1: in order to distinguish themselves. But it still takes a

1335
01:22:57,640 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: second for you to see a group of armed people

1336
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,800
Speaker 1: and then process you know, exactly all of these sort

1337
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:08,840
Speaker 1: of semiotic markers of who they are and what they're doing. Um,

1338
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 1: because if they have a different set of those things,

1339
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: it can be a very different set of conclusions that

1340
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 1: you can walk away from if you identify them. Uh.

1341
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: And in Texas, the right does love carrying these flags

1342
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:24,639
Speaker 1: and wearing these patches, so it makes it very clear

1343
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 1: who has consistently shown up to these events. Um. But

1344
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 1: like the reaction of normal people, if a group of

1345
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 1: armed people are leading a protest is to kind of

1346
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 1: be like, what the heck double take? Maybe they will

1347
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:41,080
Speaker 1: start filming it because it's the craziest thing that they've

1348
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: seen that week. Um. And ultimately you know they have

1349
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 1: to kind of know some contextual clues in order to

1350
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 1: even make these distinctions, particularly when you're talking about groups

1351
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 1: like um, you know, John Brown Clubs or Yellow Peril,

1352
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: where you're there's concerns around OP SACK or in PHO SAK,

1353
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,759
Speaker 1: and you don't want to necessarily reveal your identities because

1354
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: you're already a part of a group that's facing violence

1355
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 1: at a disproportionate rate, and maybe you're you know, potentially

1356
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: targeted by the FBI at a disproportionate rate. Like the

1357
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: former FBI officer interestingly noted during the conversation that, yeah,

1358
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,640
Speaker 1: you may have an even harder time sort of distinguishing

1359
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 1: yourself and in making it known who you are. Um,

1360
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 1: So it's an interesting challenge. I don't know if I

1361
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: have uh, sort of any lessons from it other than that,

1362
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 1: you know, these classic signifiers also seem to work. Sometimes

1363
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 1: they're kind of kitchy or um you know, seem ridiculous,

1364
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 1: but it's kind of the same thing, like you said

1365
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 1: about the spec ops, stuff like it's been used for centuries.

1366
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 1: Stuff like this has been used for a long time

1367
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 1: because it works because you immediately can comprehend is this

1368
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: person with a gun here? To kill me or to

1369
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: protect me. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really interesting because I

1370
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 1: obviously I have a complicated history with flags, but there's

1371
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: few better ways to to inform other people about what

1372
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 1: a group of folks is doing than having one. Um, yeah,

1373
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 1: as long as you're not conducting an ambush and that's

1374
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: an offensive maneuver. And then suddenly you know, it's like,

1375
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: as long as you're cool with being like, we're here

1376
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 1: and this is what we're doing, a flag is exactly

1377
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: the thing that you might want. So no, one of

1378
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 1: the things I've I've always paid attention to and appreciated

1379
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: about yellow Perils the way and what's y'all social media

1380
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: and y'all's kind of forward face is both unapologetically focused

1381
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:40,719
Speaker 1: on firearms, focused on training, and also feels completely different

1382
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: from any of the sort of right wing kind of

1383
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:46,200
Speaker 1: groups that that focus on some of the state, even

1384
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 1: when you're doing stuff that's like videos of people shooting

1385
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 1: and training, Um, do you want to talk? I mean,

1386
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: it's just anything in general on this subject that you've

1387
01:25:53,600 --> 01:26:00,120
Speaker 1: you've felt. But that's something I've always particularly noticed about y'all. Yes, oh,

1388
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: thank you. Um, we try really hard. You should see

1389
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 1: the group chet UM. But it's it's something that you

1390
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: know when historically Asian Asians represented in firearms culture tend

1391
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 1: to be conservative folks who fit within the norm or

1392
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 1: you know, proximity to whiteness. And that's something that we

1393
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 1: are not at all interested in, UM. And we know

1394
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:29,560
Speaker 1: that comes at a risk. That's why one of the

1395
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 1: reasons why are identifiable tattoos are clothing and our faces

1396
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 1: are always blurred one because we don't want cult of

1397
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:42,800
Speaker 1: celebrity around individuals. UM. But too it's like part of

1398
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: that is a lot of folks generally, but especially on

1399
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 1: the right, will kind of have this very grandiose uh,

1400
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:56,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh, buffers sense of legitimacy just because

1401
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 1: they have cool you know, video editing, they have like

1402
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 1: the nicest guns, they have a lot of guns. UM.

1403
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 1: And our thing is like, you don't need all that.

1404
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:06,840
Speaker 1: What you do need is to train with what you

1405
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: got and are target audience are folks who don't know

1406
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: ship about firearms or just getting into it and needs

1407
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: some more reputable to go. UM. And we take that

1408
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 1: very seriously, UM, because I only got into firearms like

1409
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:25,680
Speaker 1: two years ago, UM, And so that is fresh in

1410
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 1: my memory, and I know very well what that's like, um,

1411
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: and how intimidating it could be. So a lot of

1412
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,559
Speaker 1: our work is to try to demystify it and really

1413
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: break it down to a way that like it doesn't

1414
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: like we don't make people feel like they have to

1415
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: be at a certain level already to even enter into

1416
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 1: the firearms world. Like we want to meet people where

1417
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:51,560
Speaker 1: they're at and encourage people. So like, you know, do

1418
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:53,719
Speaker 1: our drill of the month and like tell us your score,

1419
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:55,600
Speaker 1: and then do it next month and tell how to

1420
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: tell us how you did better, And so it's really

1421
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 1: encouraging people to get better on an individual basis, Um,

1422
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: we encourage people to go out with their friends, um.

1423
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 1: But we also try to throw in like community international

1424
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: solidarity with our fundraisers in there too, So we try

1425
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,600
Speaker 1: to do a lot of different things. But at the

1426
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,000
Speaker 1: end of the day, like if we help just eapen

1427
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 1: a handful of shooters get better at defending themselves or

1428
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 1: their community, like it's all worth it. Thank you. I

1429
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 1: want to ask next and I'll ask you both again

1430
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:33,479
Speaker 1: kind of same question. Where do you see the armed

1431
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 1: left moving? Particularly in this next year's We kind of

1432
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 1: get through our last or start go through our last

1433
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:44,400
Speaker 1: blessed year before election? Um, what are some things that

1434
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:46,560
Speaker 1: that are on your radar? What are some things that

1435
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,160
Speaker 1: you're sort of expecting to see? What are some things

1436
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 1: that you're worried about? Saying a lot, it's a big ques.

1437
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 1: I try to keep it to a year, right, Yeah,

1438
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, I like I worry a lot.

1439
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 1: I try not to get too caught up in it

1440
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,640
Speaker 1: because life will surprise you, you know. Um, But I

1441
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 1: think ultimately, like where I live, we are facing down

1442
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 1: a really tight governor race in which if the Republican

1443
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 1: candidate wins UM, a lot of work that has been

1444
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 1: put to, you know, codify abortion rights, workers rights, things

1445
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: like that, will be reversed by this governor. Um. And

1446
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:31,559
Speaker 1: it's something that a lot of people are worried about,

1447
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 1: myself included, and where I live, even within city limits,

1448
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 1: there are white supremacists flags, Confederate flags, even just like

1449
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,679
Speaker 1: a couple of miles from my house, And so there's

1450
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 1: a lot of fear around that becoming even more emboldened.

1451
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 1: Even though we managed to fight back a lot and deterred,

1452
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that they're not taking this moment the right,

1453
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:02,760
Speaker 1: the fast right to restrategize and to recalibrate what they

1454
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:05,680
Speaker 1: want to do next. Um. And so it kind of

1455
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:10,680
Speaker 1: feels like we're in the calm before the storm. Oh man. Uh,

1456
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,040
Speaker 1: not like the J six storm. That's not what I mean,

1457
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 1: but like genuinely what it will actually look like, because

1458
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna be I don't think there's

1459
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:20,879
Speaker 1: gonna be like you know, we meet at the football

1460
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 1: field and we have like our drummers out and like

1461
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: our little pipe players out, and then we have a

1462
01:30:25,080 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 1: thought of that it's gonna be like urban like warfare,

1463
01:30:30,240 --> 01:30:32,120
Speaker 1: is what I think. Um. And a lot of other

1464
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:34,599
Speaker 1: people think that too. And you just throw in climate

1465
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 1: change as a treat like we don't know what the

1466
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 1: literal climate is going to be like. Um. And so

1467
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 1: it really just feels like there's multiple fronts right now.

1468
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 1: But it seems like climate change or the fascist will

1469
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 1: kill me before my smoking habit will And a lot

1470
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 1: of people think that too. Yeah, I mean, I I

1471
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 1: do anecdotally know a lot of people who justify their

1472
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:04,040
Speaker 1: sick at use with Mike. Look, there's wildfires all around

1473
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 1: my house. I'm not worried about the Marboros. It is.

1474
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 1: It is October and the city of Portland is blanketed

1475
01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 1: and smoke. I don't know if the cigarettes are going

1476
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:16,640
Speaker 1: to get me. Stephen, did you did you want to

1477
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 1: go next? Yeah? Well, I mean, you know, the fact

1478
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 1: that a ship posting account gained some traction, maybe there's

1479
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 1: hope yet. Um, I don't know, but ship posting will

1480
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 1: save us in the end. It's it's another one on

1481
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: the board for ship posting. Let's put it that way.

1482
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:42,960
Speaker 1: So looking forward to what are we dealing with? Well,

1483
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:47,639
Speaker 1: Texas is uh deep in it right now. Um, we're

1484
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: one of the sort of laboratories of fascism in the

1485
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 1: United States at the moment, sort of a spear tip

1486
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,720
Speaker 1: of a lot of really bad stuff really just like

1487
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, codifying in the state, oppressive things, things that

1488
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 1: they just talk about in other states. Um. And so yeah,

1489
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:13,880
Speaker 1: our governor's race, Uh, basically it doesn't either, you know,

1490
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 1: kind of split things because our lieutenant governor runs independently

1491
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 1: of the governor. And you know, the House is a

1492
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: whole other thing. Yeah, if it goes far right, Um,

1493
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 1: which a ton of money has been spent, billions and

1494
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: billions from people in the industry that's primarily responsible for

1495
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 1: destroying the planet are um pushing that to make it happen,

1496
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,040
Speaker 1: and so that all works their way, then yeah, we're

1497
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 1: probably going to get some uh seriously bad laws, really

1498
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 1: bad state sponsored violence, a variety of forms, and yeah,

1499
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 1: people are already thinking to themselves like do I want

1500
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: to live in the state anymore? Um. But that's also

1501
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:05,519
Speaker 1: basically what the extreme people on the right want is

1502
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,320
Speaker 1: to either just get rid of these people one way

1503
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 1: or another. UM. And so some people don't want that. Obviously.

1504
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 1: Some people don't have a choice to leave because it's

1505
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:19,559
Speaker 1: expensive to move and they may be tied to their

1506
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: families and other sorts of things. So, uh, I don't

1507
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 1: like to predict the future because history is we keep

1508
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 1: pumping shells into it and it keeps getting back up,

1509
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: and uh, it's just gonna happen, And I don't really

1510
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 1: know exactly. I just I'm very thankful that there are

1511
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:43,240
Speaker 1: people and groups in my state that are trying to

1512
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 1: protect vulnerable people UM, and people working to hopefully make

1513
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 1: it not super bad. UM. So I think like the

1514
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:56,519
Speaker 1: optimistic view is that it won't be all totally terrible, horrible,

1515
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:03,400
Speaker 1: but it'll be still kind of same same. Um, you know, yes, yeah,

1516
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 1: that's kind of like how I see broad speaking, you know,

1517
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: the big projection cone. Otherwise, Um, I'm not sure. Yeah,

1518
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:13,679
Speaker 1: ship is going to be fucked up, but at least

1519
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 1: we'll have friends. Hopefully it'll be wavy and it will

1520
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 1: be about the friends that we make along the way. Yeah,

1521
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 1: I'll listen to joke. Do either of you have anything

1522
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 1: else you'd like to talk about or or or bring

1523
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,560
Speaker 1: up or say before we kind of bring this to

1524
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:34,640
Speaker 1: a close. I guess I'm just like I was kind

1525
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:39,519
Speaker 1: of surprised how h decent that the panel went. Um,

1526
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, the anti fascist coalition can be broad because

1527
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: it is a sort of anti thing. It's not necessarily positivist.

1528
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe that's another episode to describe, you know,

1529
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 1: why it's important to also perhaps have a positivist message

1530
01:34:56,000 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 1: along with what you're trying to do in response to fascism. Um.

1531
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:04,679
Speaker 1: And you know, like more discussions like this hopefully will happen,

1532
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: and I think they could be improved by like not

1533
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 1: all four panelists being white dudes. That would probably be helpful. Um,

1534
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 1: as a thought, Yeah, well yeah, that that was actually

1535
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 1: the first thing I wrote on my my note page

1536
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,519
Speaker 1: is that it was for I should have said that earlier,

1537
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm just playing. But I think one

1538
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,640
Speaker 1: thing I want to add is like, similar to what

1539
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 1: you were saying, Stephen, was kind of like what is

1540
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:43,760
Speaker 1: the pro positive thing? And ultimately, like to me, it's

1541
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 1: like the city that I live in, there's a lot

1542
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,040
Speaker 1: of decentralized mutual A groups that got a lot of

1543
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:51,479
Speaker 1: people through the pandemic and still provide daily relief to

1544
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:55,759
Speaker 1: people consistently. Like I'm in like a million fucking signal

1545
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:58,919
Speaker 1: chats where people post a need and it gets met eventually,

1546
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 1: and it's like I'm pro that mutual aid and like

1547
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 1: it's something that I mean, maybe it's the only thing

1548
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:11,120
Speaker 1: that will really get us through whatever is to come UM.

1549
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:15,960
Speaker 1: And that's just like pro community building UM and coalition building,

1550
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:20,040
Speaker 1: whatever that looks like in your community. Maybe if we

1551
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: want to talk about mutual aid you can. I know,

1552
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 1: you guys do a lot of fundraises. I think that's

1553
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 1: a really cool thing certain distinguishes you from a lot

1554
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 1: of other gun clubs. So maybe you want to talk

1555
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: about a couple of those, maybe plug those, you know,

1556
01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:35,000
Speaker 1: I would plug our fontwork patches, but we just sold

1557
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:39,880
Speaker 1: out of the second batch. It's a it is. We

1558
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:44,360
Speaker 1: didn't think people would care that much, especially the first round,

1559
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: and so the second round we only ordered a hundred

1560
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: and it's pulled out in a day. Those are supporting

1561
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 1: the resistance in Me and mar right, yes, yes, people

1562
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: are getting them by donating directly to Liberate Me and

1563
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 1: mar and then someone sends them a cool while word

1564
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: hatch um. And it's one of many fundraisers we've done.

1565
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 1: We recently have done a couple for folks in Ukraine. UM.

1566
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:13,640
Speaker 1: We help them funds an ambulance out there. UM. I

1567
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 1: can't remember the Instagram handle right now. UM. We've also

1568
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:19,120
Speaker 1: done a bunch for like a group in Portland, for example,

1569
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 1: Black and Beyond the Binary. UM. I think we've done

1570
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 1: to actually for Liberate Me and Mar UM, but it's

1571
01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 1: just something that you know, we don't do this for money,

1572
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:32,000
Speaker 1: and we also want to support other groups doing things

1573
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:35,719
Speaker 1: that we support, especially like popular fronts that are fighting

1574
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 1: back against authoritarian regimes. UM and hoping that you know,

1575
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 1: if ship hits the fan here, that people will do

1576
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 1: that for us to UM because we really value international

1577
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:49,760
Speaker 1: solidarity and you know, as corny as it is, we're

1578
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,439
Speaker 1: you know, we're like we got us, you know, we

1579
01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 1: fend us, not George Soros, but um, you know, it's

1580
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,719
Speaker 1: something that brings us joy to be able to help

1581
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:05,519
Speaker 1: and um, as mostly anarchists, we really believe that, like,

1582
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 1: we are all that we have and we can't wait

1583
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,760
Speaker 1: for someone else to to, you know, a benefactor to

1584
01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 1: come and save us, because that ship is just not

1585
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 1: going to happen. Yeah, it's great. Where can folks find

1586
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 1: you on the interweb they want to follow along? We

1587
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram at Yellow dot Peril dot Practical.

1588
01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:28,519
Speaker 1: You have to spell it out, I think, because I

1589
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 1: think we're shadow band right now. Our Twitter, regrettably is

1590
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: y P T Actual. We also have a website just

1591
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 1: Yellow Peril Tactical dot com. We just took it so

1592
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 1: no one else could. Um, but that's where you can

1593
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:48,479
Speaker 1: mainly find us. We are primarily on Instagram, um, but

1594
01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: most of our stuff is on Twitter. If you really

1595
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:55,600
Speaker 1: want to see a ship post, go on Twitter. We

1596
01:38:55,720 --> 01:38:59,240
Speaker 1: recently got into it with this person and Oregon over

1597
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:02,519
Speaker 1: the gun control measure. Um, and let me tell you

1598
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,959
Speaker 1: it was a hoot, but also a little like maddening

1599
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 1: because this guy, Yeah, this guy actually ties into how

1600
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:13,280
Speaker 1: we opened the episode because he was he's a local

1601
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: liberal uh thought leader guy who uh saw two pictures

1602
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 1: of people with guns, one of them being fascists and

1603
01:39:23,080 --> 01:39:25,960
Speaker 1: one of them being one of y'all and was like,

1604
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 1: clearly these are the same thing. Um, it was a

1605
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 1: good time vote now on one fourteen in my opinion, uh,

1606
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 1: if you're in the state of Oregon. But we'll talk

1607
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 1: about that at a later point. Stephen, Um, you want

1608
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 1: to plug you first off, obviously, really good work UM

1609
01:39:45,280 --> 01:39:47,639
Speaker 1: on the panel. I want to plug that for folks

1610
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:50,640
Speaker 1: because I think it is really worth a listen. Um,

1611
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 1: as everyone is here said, there's a lot of good

1612
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 1: historical information in there and uh and and your contributions

1613
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,600
Speaker 1: are invaluable. So folks can check that out. If you

1614
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:06,160
Speaker 1: just google Cato Institute Domestic Extremism and Political Violence, you'll

1615
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:08,599
Speaker 1: find it. And how else can people find you? Stephen?

1616
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:14,360
Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter. UM, I will

1617
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 1: make sure that my handle is there. It's at Steve

1618
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 1: van Zetti. Ste van Zetti as in the you know,

1619
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:27,760
Speaker 1: one of the two that got killed by the state unjustly. Um.

1620
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 1: Because it's anti Italian discrimination. So um right, digress um,

1621
01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:38,320
Speaker 1: the you can find me there. Protean is obviously something

1622
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 1: that I work with, and I would say check that

1623
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:42,600
Speaker 1: out as well. It's at prodi and mag. Uh that

1624
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 1: has a website prodian mag dot com. Um, and anything

1625
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:48,880
Speaker 1: else that you want to know about me you can

1626
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:52,640
Speaker 1: either find on Twitter or Google. There's really only like

1627
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 1: two guys named Stephen Monta Chelli in the entire state

1628
01:40:56,720 --> 01:40:59,320
Speaker 1: United States, and the other ones like a C. P

1629
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,920
Speaker 1: A in his sixties, so it's just not that one. Um,

1630
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:07,639
Speaker 1: and yeah, you can find me there. Excellent. Um, well,

1631
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm glad we got to end on a Saco and

1632
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 1: Vanzetti reference. And uh yeah, everybody go help somebody. Could

1633
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 1: it happen here? I don't know, but I get paid

1634
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,639
Speaker 1: whether or not we find an answer to that question.

1635
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:41,759
Speaker 1: This has been the introduction to the podcast. I'm Robert Evans.

1636
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:49,480
Speaker 1: Hello everyone else, Hello, Hello, good morning afternoon. This is Garrison.

1637
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:54,000
Speaker 1: We have Sharene and we also have our friend prop

1638
01:41:54,160 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 1: from Hood Politics here. Hello. Greetings, y'all talk to me nice.

1639
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 1: I fully respect the transparency about like, well you get

1640
01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:05,960
Speaker 1: paid regardless, yeah, exactly, exactly when or not. We learned

1641
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 1: if it could happen here. Here's the thing. When I

1642
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 1: used to teach high school, which believe it or not,

1643
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,599
Speaker 1: I did taught ninth graders. We was like maybe eight

1644
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 1: years apart at the time, and uh uh there was

1645
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,439
Speaker 1: at one point and I taught Inner City and it

1646
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:23,720
Speaker 1: was it was at one point, I uh, I got

1647
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 1: this idea from one of my like uh like mentor

1648
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:30,200
Speaker 1: teachers where I was like, okay, check this out. So

1649
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 1: I made you remember overhead transparencies. Yeah, I do for sure.

1650
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:38,160
Speaker 1: So I made one of my check It was like,

1651
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put this because I'm just gonna put

1652
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,720
Speaker 1: this up here because like y'all can do your work

1653
01:42:44,800 --> 01:42:49,599
Speaker 1: or not. YO said, like I get paid either way.

1654
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:51,519
Speaker 1: I care. That's why I show up and I try

1655
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:56,280
Speaker 1: so hard, you know, but you're not hurting me by

1656
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:05,720
Speaker 1: whatever bellion you're practicing here like this this is who

1657
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 1: ends at three o'clock. At three oh five, I forgot

1658
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:13,000
Speaker 1: everything you said to me, you know, so you're not

1659
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 1: hurting me. Now. If you want to make me earn this,

1660
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:20,519
Speaker 1: then let's get busy, you know. And it was like,

1661
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,360
Speaker 1: no man gonna earn this. I was like, all right,

1662
01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:25,280
Speaker 1: let's go to it. You know, I was a great teacher,

1663
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:28,639
Speaker 1: do you know, I mean I may have turned off

1664
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: a few people, but I don't know that. Do you

1665
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 1: know what does hurt me proper? What hurt you? Oh? God, Garrett,

1666
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:46,519
Speaker 1: the main streaming eventI semitic rhetoric. Um, you did a

1667
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:49,800
Speaker 1: good job there, Garrison. Great? You know what, you know

1668
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 1: what put putting in for a commendation for you. You're

1669
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 1: gonna get a little trophy from the company for that one. Hey, homie,

1670
01:43:56,200 --> 01:44:00,720
Speaker 1: that was Garrison. That was Yeah, so a varsity bro,

1671
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 1: was varsity fan. Unfortunately, today we're gonna be talking about

1672
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:10,280
Speaker 1: Kanye West. There's a lot of elements to this topic

1673
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:14,360
Speaker 1: of discussion between the media's coverage of what's happened, isn't

1674
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:21,880
Speaker 1: it ye now Garrison? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, okay.

1675
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:30,400
Speaker 1: So the thing is like it like at some point

1676
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 1: probably now I am I have refused to talk about

1677
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:41,800
Speaker 1: same yeah you know, uh and specifically even covering it,

1678
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:45,080
Speaker 1: you know, on the pod. But it's definitely time to

1679
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:48,720
Speaker 1: be like, you know, whose man's is this? Yeah? You know,

1680
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,720
Speaker 1: like come on, somebody can get somebody can get your

1681
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:54,880
Speaker 1: man's here. You know what I'm saying, um, yeah, there's

1682
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:56,840
Speaker 1: a lot of different kind of parts of this between

1683
01:44:57,040 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 1: how the media has been covering it the past month,

1684
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 1: his own like history of like attention grabbing spectacle, the

1685
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:08,400
Speaker 1: whole mental health side of things. There's religion has uptakeing

1686
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:11,200
Speaker 1: the meta comments, and how the rights has been reacting.

1687
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 1: There's there's there's a lot a lot of stuff based

1688
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 1: on you know, a few a few not not great statements,

1689
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:22,240
Speaker 1: and a lot of interesting things have revolved around him.

1690
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:32,720
Speaker 1: Just pick your favorite subversive artists from fifteen years ago

1691
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:40,680
Speaker 1: and then picture that person doing this, just like on,

1692
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 1: come on, My favorite subversive artists from fifteen years ago

1693
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 1: might have been Dave Chappelle. You know, my my favorite

1694
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:54,639
Speaker 1: subversive artist from fifteen years ago, it was probably Steve

1695
01:45:54,720 --> 01:46:00,200
Speaker 1: from Blues Clues. Hey, Steve remains remains solid. He's yeah,

1696
01:46:00,200 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 1: he's a hero. Oh wait, no, I'm now seeing on

1697
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:11,519
Speaker 1: Deadline that he has recently embraced white nationalism words tattooed

1698
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:13,400
Speaker 1: on the back of his head next to the blue

1699
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:19,560
Speaker 1: paw print. Oh dear, Steve is fine, he's kidding, that

1700
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 1: didn't happen, but yeah, absolutely, Because you're like and knowing

1701
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 1: all of it's it is, And I hope I'm not.

1702
01:46:30,040 --> 01:46:31,880
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not co opting this whole show, but

1703
01:46:32,040 --> 01:46:38,479
Speaker 1: it's it is. The Tyra Banks clip from America's Top

1704
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:41,720
Speaker 1: Model words like we we believe, we all believed in you,

1705
01:46:42,000 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 1: just furious, like we got damn it. We believed in you.

1706
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 1: You know yeah yeah. And as the perspective of like

1707
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:55,160
Speaker 1: a younger person who wasn't really around for I guess

1708
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:58,679
Speaker 1: when Kanye was better, this stuff has not been surprising

1709
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:01,839
Speaker 1: to be because I've only been watching him the past decade,

1710
01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:04,439
Speaker 1: and that's kind of what we're gonna talk about. I

1711
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:06,519
Speaker 1: would it would probably be fair to call me like

1712
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:10,479
Speaker 1: a casual knower of Kanye, but I'm I'm I'm much

1713
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:14,040
Speaker 1: older than you, Garrison, And so I remember George Bush

1714
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:16,880
Speaker 1: doesn't care about black people, which was like, that's the

1715
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:20,400
Speaker 1: height of all that seems that seems accurate. That was

1716
01:47:20,439 --> 01:47:23,360
Speaker 1: the high water point when we were like he's for

1717
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:26,599
Speaker 1: the generation, this is this is a new breed, because

1718
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:32,600
Speaker 1: but what's what's what's ill is like it was obviously

1719
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:39,920
Speaker 1: a sign of his manicness. Looking in retrospect, it was like, oh,

1720
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:41,720
Speaker 1: he was in a manic episode. I mean and the

1721
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:44,639
Speaker 1: other thing is that he really just has a history

1722
01:47:45,080 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 1: of basic contrarianism, so he'll he'll he'll oppose George W.

1723
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 1: Bush because that's the contrarian thing to do. At the

1724
01:47:53,160 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 1: moment post on eleven, everyone was very pro Obama. Someone

1725
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 1: said he's gonna be pro Trump because he's gonna he's

1726
01:47:58,840 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 1: gonna try to be that some of and that's only

1727
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:06,920
Speaker 1: been a pattern throughout his career. It just such to

1728
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:10,040
Speaker 1: see it go ahead. I'm not I'm not an expert

1729
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:12,680
Speaker 1: on his music. I wasn't particularly a fan. But the

1730
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:15,160
Speaker 1: thing I know that, like everyone talked about his motherfucker's

1731
01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:17,479
Speaker 1: sampled blood on the leaves, like and now that's a

1732
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:20,880
Speaker 1: But also at the time it was like, wow, this

1733
01:48:21,040 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 1: is you know, he's he's he's he's trying to say something.

1734
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:25,800
Speaker 1: And now there's a degree to which it's like, well,

1735
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: was that just the most contrarians a move he could

1736
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:34,800
Speaker 1: be making, right, Yeah, And like what you said, prop

1737
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:37,240
Speaker 1: But like initially when this when the when the T

1738
01:48:37,360 --> 01:48:39,320
Speaker 1: shirt and stuff was happening at Paris Fashion Week, I

1739
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:40,960
Speaker 1: really did not want to talk about this because I

1740
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:43,599
Speaker 1: thought it was just another one of Kanye's publicity stunts

1741
01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:45,920
Speaker 1: kind of in line with his mega hat and Trump

1742
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:48,479
Speaker 1: appearances from a few years ago. And I didn't want

1743
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:51,280
Speaker 1: to like play into the media cycle of just amplifying

1744
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:53,800
Speaker 1: these stunts that Kanye does, which I think kind of

1745
01:48:53,880 --> 01:48:57,800
Speaker 1: feeds into and encourages this kind of behavior. But then

1746
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:00,920
Speaker 1: Kanye went on Tucker and started hosting on the Internet,

1747
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:04,800
Speaker 1: and things have gotten a lot worse since then, And

1748
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:07,519
Speaker 1: now I feel like it actually is we should now

1749
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:09,920
Speaker 1: actually talk about this because there's some interesting things going

1750
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: on um and ideally we can talk about it in

1751
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:14,680
Speaker 1: a way that's actually useful and that we can gain

1752
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 1: insights from and not just you know, highlighting the bigoted

1753
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,400
Speaker 1: and unhinged things that a public figure has said. So

1754
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:24,400
Speaker 1: and I think kind of feigning with shock her surprisement

1755
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:28,160
Speaker 1: at his recent actions and behavior and statements is mostly

1756
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:30,759
Speaker 1: not useful, like as opposed to just like clearly condemning

1757
01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:34,680
Speaker 1: bigotry and anti semitism and doing like the platforming and

1758
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 1: also upon this, upon the news of the t shirt

1759
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:42,200
Speaker 1: stunt and the pointless matter stuff and anti semitism, I

1760
01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:45,280
Speaker 1: was not actually really surprised because I kind of saw

1761
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:48,560
Speaker 1: this as a natural evolution of the logical progression of

1762
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:51,400
Speaker 1: the type of bit that Kandie has been doing, particularly

1763
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:53,519
Speaker 1: for the past five years, and that's kind of the

1764
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:55,720
Speaker 1: angle that we're going to approach this with. I think

1765
01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:59,719
Speaker 1: we should probably start by talking about, well, the types

1766
01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:02,600
Speaker 1: of alignments Kanye has had over the course of his

1767
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:05,479
Speaker 1: career towards Christianity and how that kind of reached the

1768
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:09,320
Speaker 1: peak in so you can see the kind of earliest

1769
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:11,240
Speaker 1: tense of this type of thing. It's pretty dumb a

1770
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 1: song like Jesus Walks into Us and four um, and

1771
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:18,160
Speaker 1: then he kind of does some cool stuff. We get

1772
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:21,040
Speaker 1: to the album ease Us, which kind of revolves around

1773
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:25,920
Speaker 1: self like deification. I never expected to hear you say

1774
01:50:26,080 --> 01:50:32,920
Speaker 1: Jesus awesome, okay, which is which is a pretty good album,

1775
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:35,479
Speaker 1: and it kind of it's it's it's before he gets

1776
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:40,080
Speaker 1: actually into like Christ. It's it's more like God as

1777
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:42,560
Speaker 1: like a spiritual force that you can interact with and

1778
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:46,200
Speaker 1: you can like align can like align yourself with um

1779
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:48,720
Speaker 1: can I can I fill in the can I fill

1780
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:54,719
Speaker 1: in the absolutely walks area? Yeah? Like important important context

1781
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:57,439
Speaker 1: about Kanye one is understanding how the South Side of

1782
01:50:57,520 --> 01:51:02,759
Speaker 1: Chicago is, you know, and it's like to be black.

1783
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:10,479
Speaker 1: There's like, you're not. How do I say? This church

1784
01:51:11,640 --> 01:51:17,599
Speaker 1: is as normal as dinner with in in our community,

1785
01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:21,320
Speaker 1: specifically in the South side of Chicago. Of course, of course,

1786
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 1: your daddy's a deacon. Of course, your mom teaches Sunday school.

1787
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 1: Of course, the most hardened of criminals will stop and

1788
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:30,560
Speaker 1: talk to mother Johnson when they see her on the

1789
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:33,040
Speaker 1: side of the road because she was your Sunday school teacher,

1790
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, so and you still come every Sunday. Like

1791
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:41,760
Speaker 1: it's just such a part so the Christian idea, it's

1792
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:45,760
Speaker 1: such a part, an integral part of our of our community,

1793
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:48,280
Speaker 1: and of course of his because he's just one of us,

1794
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:51,600
Speaker 1: you know, um that of course he's going to do

1795
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 1: a song called Jesus Walks, you know, um of course,

1796
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:58,360
Speaker 1: and of course he actually probably the whole time, believed

1797
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:02,360
Speaker 1: he was a Christian, you know, because of because we

1798
01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:06,120
Speaker 1: all are, you know, saying like and unless you come

1799
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:08,679
Speaker 1: from like the f ol I or like Nation Islam

1800
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:12,800
Speaker 1: stuff situation like specifically just what black people were just

1801
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:16,559
Speaker 1: we just went to church, you know. So in all

1802
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:18,839
Speaker 1: of our all of our musicians, you take the greatest

1803
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:21,040
Speaker 1: musicians of any of our times, they used to be

1804
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,559
Speaker 1: choir singers, they used to be in the worship band,

1805
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,160
Speaker 1: like we just it's just a part of our life,

1806
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:33,920
Speaker 1: you know. So so for him to do that was

1807
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:39,679
Speaker 1: not strange. What was strange was him thinking it was unique.

1808
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:42,560
Speaker 1: That was the part that was so weird about like

1809
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:46,320
Speaker 1: why you think this is there's like, you know, there's

1810
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 1: the aspect of thinking that some of the gospel type

1811
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:51,240
Speaker 1: of stuff he was doing was unique, which yeah, maybe

1812
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 1: it was unique for me on such such a large platform,

1813
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:56,559
Speaker 1: but it was not new. And the the the other

1814
01:52:56,680 --> 01:52:58,599
Speaker 1: thing that is different is that there is a difference

1815
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:02,120
Speaker 1: between the type of the type of like black churches

1816
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:08,320
Speaker 1: you're talking about and white Christian evangelical born again very

1817
01:53:08,360 --> 01:53:10,720
Speaker 1: different around conversion, which is what he starts getting into.

1818
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, what he became, you know what I'm saying,

1819
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:15,640
Speaker 1: But that's not that's why I was like, let me

1820
01:53:15,680 --> 01:53:17,639
Speaker 1: give it. That's so that's why I like, at first,

1821
01:53:18,280 --> 01:53:21,640
Speaker 1: and I'm speaking as somebody who also came from like

1822
01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:26,160
Speaker 1: a very person of color experience and with Christianity and

1823
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:32,559
Speaker 1: then finding you know, sort of white evangelicalism and thinking

1824
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:36,639
Speaker 1: because we're using the same words that we're talking about

1825
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:40,680
Speaker 1: the same thing, and then about five minutes sitting at

1826
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:46,720
Speaker 1: that table, you're just like, oh oh, you just kind

1827
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:48,519
Speaker 1: of like make the little piece outside and let me

1828
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:51,080
Speaker 1: slide out, because clearly we don't believe the same things.

1829
01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:53,920
Speaker 1: You know. I first found your music as I was

1830
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:58,000
Speaker 1: kind of me and my family were exiting evangelicalism. Yeah,

1831
01:53:58,320 --> 01:54:00,320
Speaker 1: and that was a very useful kind of depth that

1832
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:02,560
Speaker 1: was still using some familiar language, but it was like

1833
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:08,519
Speaker 1: going in a better direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. So

1834
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:10,880
Speaker 1: I think that the next kind of notable thing is

1835
01:54:11,080 --> 01:54:16,040
Speaker 1: the more gospel esque album Life of Pablo, allegedly inspired

1836
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:18,760
Speaker 1: by the life of the biblical Paul. And there's the

1837
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:23,599
Speaker 1: song Ultra Ultra light Beam, which features contemporary gospel superstar

1838
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:26,160
Speaker 1: Kirk Franklin and Chance the Rapper, who is also a

1839
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:31,040
Speaker 1: very open Christian. Yeah. Uh. Then he GANI has a

1840
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:34,160
Speaker 1: few years of dealing with mental health stuff. He gets hospitalized,

1841
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:37,240
Speaker 1: he comes out of the hospital, and then in April,

1842
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:42,480
Speaker 1: he some somewhere around sixteen, he kind of endorses Trump

1843
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:47,480
Speaker 1: kind of um. But then but then in April West

1844
01:54:47,560 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 1: sends out a series of tweets expressing admiration for Trump,

1845
01:54:50,760 --> 01:54:53,640
Speaker 1: including that he felt he was his brother and they

1846
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:58,280
Speaker 1: both have quote dragon energy. Um people like Trance of

1847
01:54:58,320 --> 01:55:02,240
Speaker 1: Rapper initially came to West defend saying that black people

1848
01:55:02,280 --> 01:55:05,000
Speaker 1: don't have to be Democrats, which he later apologized for,

1849
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:06,960
Speaker 1: and a lot of tweets that were up that are

1850
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:11,000
Speaker 1: now gone. Yes, and then one of the kind of

1851
01:55:11,080 --> 01:55:13,920
Speaker 1: worst inclinations of where things are kind of going was

1852
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:18,360
Speaker 1: a fucking TMZ interview which was supposed was which was

1853
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:21,760
Speaker 1: supposed to be about Congye's support of Trump, but then

1854
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:23,920
Speaker 1: he went on to make some pretty gross comments about

1855
01:55:23,960 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 1: black people choosing to be enslaved. I don't think people

1856
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:32,520
Speaker 1: necessarily understand what happened last week with the Great America

1857
01:55:33,080 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 1: America great again? Hat What are you trying to do

1858
01:55:35,800 --> 01:55:39,800
Speaker 1: with the message you're sending? Well, it was really just

1859
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:43,040
Speaker 1: my subconscious It was a feeling I had, you know,

1860
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:46,400
Speaker 1: like people were taught how to think, we're taught how

1861
01:55:46,440 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: to feel. We don't know how to think for ourselves.

1862
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:50,200
Speaker 1: We don't know how to feel for ourselves. People say

1863
01:55:50,280 --> 01:55:52,880
Speaker 1: feel free, but they don't really want us to feel free.

1864
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:56,560
Speaker 1: And uh, I felt a freedom and first of all,

1865
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: just doing something that everybody tells you not to do.

1866
01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:03,400
Speaker 1: I just loved Trump. Do you hear about slavery for

1867
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:06,120
Speaker 1: four hundred years, for four hundred years, that sounds like

1868
01:56:06,200 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 1: a choice, Like he was there for four hundred years,

1869
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:13,640
Speaker 1: and it's all of y'all, you know, like it's like

1870
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:16,440
Speaker 1: we're mentally in prison. I like the word prison because

1871
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:20,960
Speaker 1: slavery goes to to direct to the idea of blacks.

1872
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:25,400
Speaker 1: It's like slavery holocaust, Holocaust students, slavery is blacks. So

1873
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:28,520
Speaker 1: prison is something that unites us as one race, blacks

1874
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:32,120
Speaker 1: and whites being one race. Uh, that we're one were

1875
01:56:32,160 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 1: the human race. And fun fact, like Van who stood

1876
01:56:36,760 --> 01:56:39,600
Speaker 1: up to him, I think to this day, especially among

1877
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:46,720
Speaker 1: like black media figures, he's, as far as I can remember,

1878
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:51,280
Speaker 1: like one of the only that confronted him in the

1879
01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:55,560
Speaker 1: moment boldly didn't mince his words. You could tell he

1880
01:56:55,720 --> 01:57:00,240
Speaker 1: was like almost weeping, because I mean that's the way

1881
01:57:00,240 --> 01:57:02,600
Speaker 1: I felt watching it, where it was just like oh

1882
01:57:03,240 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 1: what do you what are you saying? Like it's just

1883
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:09,840
Speaker 1: it's just so hurtful because you're like you can't believe,

1884
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:13,640
Speaker 1: like come on, man, like drop the act, bro, Like

1885
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:16,240
Speaker 1: now now we're all suffering. It's like it's almost like

1886
01:57:16,320 --> 01:57:19,520
Speaker 1: I get I get it. We get it looking back, Yeah,

1887
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:22,960
Speaker 1: even college dropout, that record was just him being Now

1888
01:57:23,040 --> 01:57:25,120
Speaker 1: I used to think it was like revolutionary. No, it's

1889
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:27,400
Speaker 1: just him being a contrarian. I don't know if you

1890
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:29,920
Speaker 1: go to college, you know now I know, like, oh man,

1891
01:57:30,040 --> 01:57:31,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't as deep as I thought it was. You know,

1892
01:57:32,160 --> 01:57:35,400
Speaker 1: so you're thinking, yeah, at the moment, you're like genius,

1893
01:57:35,480 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 1: Like dark Trested Fantasy was like the most amazing album

1894
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:41,880
Speaker 1: I had ever heard up to that point, brilliant, and yeah,

1895
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:44,920
Speaker 1: thats as you guys are talking. There's like sprinkles of

1896
01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 1: religious stuff in that one, and then a lot of

1897
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:49,000
Speaker 1: his stuff and he just takes it one stuff too

1898
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:51,600
Speaker 1: far because I just remember thinking like, oh, this guy's

1899
01:57:51,600 --> 01:57:54,720
Speaker 1: a musical genius. And then when you see that genius

1900
01:57:54,800 --> 01:57:58,320
Speaker 1: kind of turn on itself, it's just really disappointing. But yeah,

1901
01:57:58,360 --> 01:58:01,880
Speaker 1: shout out Van for like fronting him and directly saying

1902
01:58:02,640 --> 01:58:05,840
Speaker 1: you're wrong. This hurts and I can't believe you say that,

1903
01:58:05,960 --> 01:58:08,480
Speaker 1: and you owe your community and apology. That was pretty dopey.

1904
01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:12,800
Speaker 1: So after that incident, he took to Twitter dot com

1905
01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:16,839
Speaker 1: to clarify, slash, defend, slash, double down on his slavery

1906
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:20,720
Speaker 1: comments talking about being mentally enslaved and how it's we

1907
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:23,360
Speaker 1: need to you know, this is just an example, like

1908
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:25,960
Speaker 1: and how his comments were just an example of of

1909
01:58:26,120 --> 01:58:28,680
Speaker 1: free thought. It's just an idea, and once again I'm

1910
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:31,600
Speaker 1: being attacked for presenting new ideas. And then he ended

1911
01:58:31,640 --> 01:58:34,440
Speaker 1: this kind of tweet thread with a fake Harriet Tubman

1912
01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:38,880
Speaker 1: quote saying I freed a thousand slaves. I could have

1913
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:41,160
Speaker 1: freed a thousand more. Offinitely they knew they were slaves,

1914
01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:44,640
Speaker 1: which is not not a real Harriet doubled quote. Now

1915
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:46,720
Speaker 1: that that doesn't seem like a thing she would say

1916
01:58:46,760 --> 01:58:49,680
Speaker 1: at all, and all of all the tweets related deleted,

1917
01:58:49,720 --> 01:58:51,440
Speaker 1: but it was it was kind of doubling down on

1918
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:55,040
Speaker 1: some of the same rhetoric. And then allegedly, um, some

1919
01:58:55,200 --> 01:58:59,120
Speaker 1: of the TMZ staffers have also now come out and

1920
01:58:59,240 --> 01:59:02,440
Speaker 1: said that he's said some andy semitic things during during

1921
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:05,600
Speaker 1: the interview that we're cut out. Now that's not verified

1922
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:09,160
Speaker 1: and TMZ is obviously not a great source, um, but

1923
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:12,640
Speaker 1: just an interesting note on him possibly saying some other

1924
01:59:12,720 --> 01:59:14,400
Speaker 1: things that people were thought were kind of weird and

1925
01:59:14,440 --> 01:59:15,960
Speaker 1: just thought that we may as well just cut this

1926
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:19,800
Speaker 1: out because it doesn't seem super relevant at the time anyway.

1927
01:59:20,240 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 1: So around the same time in eighteen, Kanye befriended someone

1928
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:28,160
Speaker 1: named Candice Owens, who was at the time the communications

1929
01:59:28,200 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 1: director for the far right group Turning Point USA, led

1930
01:59:31,600 --> 01:59:34,400
Speaker 1: by man with face too small for his head, Charlie

1931
01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:39,520
Speaker 1: kirk Um. Kanye tweeted quote that he loved the way

1932
01:59:39,640 --> 01:59:43,960
Speaker 1: Candice Owens thinks. Um. Candace Owens basically makes all of

1933
01:59:44,040 --> 01:59:47,240
Speaker 1: her money by being paid by rich conservative white men

1934
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:51,280
Speaker 1: to say that racism isn't a problem anymore. Uh. Days

1935
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:55,400
Speaker 1: after his candas owns tweet, when there was the mega

1936
01:59:55,480 --> 01:59:59,440
Speaker 1: hat wearing TMZ visit, he was accompanied by to TMZ

1937
01:59:59,800 --> 02:00:03,120
Speaker 1: by Candace Owen's. Uh. That's something that a lot of

1938
02:00:03,200 --> 02:00:07,240
Speaker 1: people miss is that Owens is Owens is a is

1939
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:10,000
Speaker 1: a core vector point for all of the stuff around

1940
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:14,080
Speaker 1: Kanye UM and much of Kanye's rhetoric in this vein

1941
02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:17,920
Speaker 1: of like slavery being thought to control, a lot of

1942
02:00:17,960 --> 02:00:21,360
Speaker 1: that directly comes from Owens. That that that's the talking points.

1943
02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:24,880
Speaker 1: That Yeah, all of those talking points come directly from

1944
02:00:24,920 --> 02:00:27,520
Speaker 1: Owen's which come from her being paid by the Koch brothers.

1945
02:00:28,120 --> 02:00:32,640
Speaker 1: UM and then obviously West solidified his position in the

1946
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:35,480
Speaker 1: pro Trump camp with the heavily publicized Whitehouse visit in

1947
02:00:35,600 --> 02:00:38,840
Speaker 1: late October eighteen where Kanye give like a ten minute

1948
02:00:38,880 --> 02:00:41,840
Speaker 1: long monologue while wearing the Mega hat. And that's fine.

1949
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:43,960
Speaker 1: I love this guy right here. Let me get this guy.

1950
02:00:46,720 --> 02:00:50,520
Speaker 1: I love this guy right here. That's really, that's really

1951
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 1: and that's from the heart. I didn't want to put

1952
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:56,640
Speaker 1: you in that position, but that's from the heart. These

1953
02:00:56,680 --> 02:01:00,360
Speaker 1: are like the intersections that are being vector in this

1954
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:04,480
Speaker 1: scenario in this thing is like like I said, like

1955
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:07,680
Speaker 1: I didn't, I did not want to cover this, but

1956
02:01:08,440 --> 02:01:11,600
Speaker 1: now that it's like it's clearly necessary to do, just

1957
02:01:12,040 --> 02:01:17,360
Speaker 1: for even for this context. Like there's a certain I

1958
02:01:17,840 --> 02:01:21,800
Speaker 1: I save. I save the word coon, Like coon is

1959
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:25,000
Speaker 1: not something you throw around like that's to me, it's

1960
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:28,680
Speaker 1: the yeah, it is. It's far as far as a

1961
02:01:28,720 --> 02:01:31,560
Speaker 1: black person or me as somebody who works in justice

1962
02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:33,200
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, it is the worst thing I

1963
02:01:33,240 --> 02:01:35,400
Speaker 1: can call you, you know what I'm saying, So like

1964
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:41,000
Speaker 1: I save that term. And and it's because of the

1965
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:46,680
Speaker 1: same reason why it's hard for the totality of our

1966
02:01:46,840 --> 02:01:51,680
Speaker 1: of the black community to ever really fully disavow somebody.

1967
02:01:52,320 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 1: It's because of our history of collective suffering, like are

1968
02:01:56,040 --> 02:01:59,160
Speaker 1: we've survived because of our communal protection of each other.

1969
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:03,200
Speaker 1: So even when somebody is losing it, it's just like baby,

1970
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:05,920
Speaker 1: just come home, baby, Okay, listen, No he having a

1971
02:02:05,960 --> 02:02:07,840
Speaker 1: bad day, you know. I mean, you just you want

1972
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:11,320
Speaker 1: so much to protect them because you understand how much

1973
02:02:11,400 --> 02:02:15,400
Speaker 1: internalized like self hate and racism, how much you internalize

1974
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:17,920
Speaker 1: that stuff, you know, so you just want so bad,

1975
02:02:18,680 --> 02:02:22,240
Speaker 1: so bad to be like okay, Candice, let's turn the

1976
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:25,160
Speaker 1: cameras off, like you getting your money, right, that's this,

1977
02:02:25,360 --> 02:02:27,800
Speaker 1: this is what we're doing, right, you just come on,

1978
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:30,680
Speaker 1: you can tell us, you just give you getting your money,

1979
02:02:30,760 --> 02:02:33,480
Speaker 1: just tell us, you know, it's like you know, no,

1980
02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:35,440
Speaker 1: fam you don't really believe it's do you? You know?

1981
02:02:36,120 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 1: And and then we get to be like baby, don't

1982
02:02:38,520 --> 02:02:40,760
Speaker 1: get your money like that, like, don't don't get your

1983
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:43,640
Speaker 1: money on based on our suffering like you because you're

1984
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:47,600
Speaker 1: thinking that there's no there's no way, there's no way

1985
02:02:47,720 --> 02:02:52,280
Speaker 1: this is really you, you know, and so so so

1986
02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:55,800
Speaker 1: when you put those two together, it's like like why

1987
02:02:55,880 --> 02:02:58,160
Speaker 1: did it take us so long to disavow R? Kelly?

1988
02:02:58,280 --> 02:03:00,360
Speaker 1: Why did it take us so long to this. Why

1989
02:03:00,480 --> 02:03:02,400
Speaker 1: is Chris Brown still a star? You know what I'm saying,

1990
02:03:02,480 --> 02:03:06,040
Speaker 1: It's because it's it's because of that. It's just you

1991
02:03:06,080 --> 02:03:09,200
Speaker 1: don't ever wanted like you gotta save you gotta save coon.

1992
02:03:09,640 --> 02:03:11,560
Speaker 1: You gotta save that for when you really mean it,

1993
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:15,760
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Uh, for me personally, I'm like,

1994
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 1: I just I don't pull that word out off in

1995
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:22,200
Speaker 1: And then there's moments when you're just like, I don't

1996
02:03:22,240 --> 02:03:25,320
Speaker 1: know what else to call it, is like, I just you.

1997
02:03:25,600 --> 02:03:29,000
Speaker 1: If you if you are selling your own people out

1998
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:34,879
Speaker 1: for the purpose of making money, that's coon, that's coonery.

1999
02:03:35,160 --> 02:03:38,640
Speaker 1: Like I don't and it's it's just hard for me

2000
02:03:38,760 --> 02:03:41,160
Speaker 1: to say it. But anyway, go on, tell us more

2001
02:03:41,200 --> 02:03:44,880
Speaker 1: about Candice Owns, the girl that suited the girl that

2002
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:50,600
Speaker 1: suited her school suit or school board for racism. She dead, Yeah,

2003
02:03:50,800 --> 02:03:53,240
Speaker 1: she sure dead. We'll get back to Owens in a bed.

2004
02:03:53,720 --> 02:03:57,120
Speaker 1: By the time nineteen started, uh, you know, this is

2005
02:03:57,160 --> 02:04:00,840
Speaker 1: when Kanye went public about his born and in conversion

2006
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:04,880
Speaker 1: to Christianity and kind of his full pivot towards the

2007
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:09,480
Speaker 1: I guess mostly kind of untapped mainstream Christian rap market,

2008
02:04:09,560 --> 02:04:11,480
Speaker 1: which is kind of I'm going to try to frame

2009
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:15,280
Speaker 1: some of his decisions here as being more monetarily driven,

2010
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:18,880
Speaker 1: then would a lot of people assume because I can

2011
02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:23,080
Speaker 1: totally understand these as business choices, especially coming after the

2012
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:27,640
Speaker 1: Trump visit, his his his state of alignment with Trump

2013
02:04:27,720 --> 02:04:30,960
Speaker 1: and friendship with Canadace Owens handed him a partially alieneded

2014
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:34,160
Speaker 1: fan base, accompanied by a new wave of fans from

2015
02:04:34,320 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 1: right wing Christian evangelicals to all right, you know, turning

2016
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:42,360
Speaker 1: point you was, say, daily wire type supporters. And then

2017
02:04:42,440 --> 02:04:45,760
Speaker 1: by the beginning of twenty nineteen, West kind of tamped

2018
02:04:45,800 --> 02:04:50,120
Speaker 1: down on some of his explicit Trumpian political persona type stuff,

2019
02:04:50,640 --> 02:04:54,200
Speaker 1: and in its place came this weekly pseudo Christian gathering

2020
02:04:54,680 --> 02:04:57,960
Speaker 1: known as the Sunday Service, just like a weekly mostly

2021
02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:02,880
Speaker 1: invite only, choir packed music gathering that changes locations every week.

2022
02:05:03,320 --> 02:05:07,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes that properties owned by Kanye sometimes that churches outdoors

2023
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:10,800
Speaker 1: all all around the country. Yes see. And this is

2024
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:14,200
Speaker 1: this is where things get uncomfortably start to get uncomfortably culty.

2025
02:05:14,480 --> 02:05:17,040
Speaker 1: This is where things get quite culty. And it's like

2026
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:20,160
Speaker 1: and and and and and don't get it, like, let

2027
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:24,120
Speaker 1: me not, let me not cap They were objectively dope

2028
02:05:24,680 --> 02:05:29,720
Speaker 1: like as as music concerned, these are objective. And that's

2029
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:34,520
Speaker 1: and that's the hard part about Kanye, where it's just like, look,

2030
02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:37,160
Speaker 1: you go back, you go back a couple of decades.

2031
02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:41,600
Speaker 1: That was not untrue. If people's temple, they had great artists,

2032
02:05:41,680 --> 02:05:43,600
Speaker 1: they put on great music. That was a big part

2033
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:46,800
Speaker 1: of their appeal. And and and Kanye for Sunday's Service

2034
02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:49,520
Speaker 1: hired a lot of extremely talented people to lead up

2035
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:52,520
Speaker 1: those programs that yeah, a lot of a lot of

2036
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:57,080
Speaker 1: like legendary gospel singers, you know, and very recognizable names.

2037
02:05:57,560 --> 02:06:00,840
Speaker 1: And again giving that that his history and context, and

2038
02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:03,880
Speaker 1: then the context is just Black people in general. Part

2039
02:06:03,960 --> 02:06:08,120
Speaker 1: of it felt like at the time, Okay, he's trying

2040
02:06:08,200 --> 02:06:11,040
Speaker 1: to return to his roots. It's like this is what

2041
02:06:11,160 --> 02:06:15,600
Speaker 1: you grew up in, and you realized, like maybe you've

2042
02:06:15,640 --> 02:06:18,720
Speaker 1: gone too far. Maybe it's like I'm so far into

2043
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:21,440
Speaker 1: this Hollywood world, you know, I'm starting to like So

2044
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:24,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna do my best to like like

2045
02:06:24,480 --> 02:06:26,560
Speaker 1: anyone does, like, let me return back to what I

2046
02:06:26,680 --> 02:06:30,000
Speaker 1: know was the safest moment in my life, and it

2047
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:33,240
Speaker 1: was Sunday Services. So it's like I gave him the

2048
02:06:33,320 --> 02:06:35,840
Speaker 1: benefit I am. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

2049
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:38,440
Speaker 1: Because it's like, that's what we all do. You return home,

2050
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:41,520
Speaker 1: you start praying again. You know what I'm saying, And

2051
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:45,120
Speaker 1: just would I would totally believe that if it weren't

2052
02:06:45,240 --> 02:06:47,520
Speaker 1: for the fact that he tried to trademark the terms

2053
02:06:47,560 --> 02:06:52,880
Speaker 1: Sunday Services, right Like, once you start doing that, you're like, huh,

2054
02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:56,200
Speaker 1: I wonder what's actually going on a minute. Yeah, Like

2055
02:06:56,360 --> 02:06:58,760
Speaker 1: performers and attendees had to sign and D A S

2056
02:06:59,200 --> 02:07:02,920
Speaker 1: and here to a strict address code that changed every week. Um.

2057
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:05,760
Speaker 1: The service featured gospel inspired remixes of classic songs from

2058
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:08,760
Speaker 1: different genres, and also strike choir led gospel tunes with

2059
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:12,880
Speaker 1: the occasional biblical servant, often often given by like a

2060
02:07:12,960 --> 02:07:18,120
Speaker 1: white guy in his thirties or sometimes Kanye Yeah, it's it's.

2061
02:07:18,200 --> 02:07:22,520
Speaker 1: It's probably mostly known for attracting celebrities to come and

2062
02:07:22,600 --> 02:07:26,240
Speaker 1: then also playing at Coachella in t Yeah, well there's

2063
02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:30,360
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with Coachella, so yeah nothing nothing ever bad's

2064
02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:35,879
Speaker 1: half of that Coachella there, and they're just normal booking

2065
02:07:36,040 --> 02:07:40,080
Speaker 1: promoters that are just looking at numbers and saying these

2066
02:07:40,160 --> 02:07:44,320
Speaker 1: people will buy tickets. So I know I showed this

2067
02:07:44,440 --> 02:07:49,480
Speaker 1: to you, Garrison prop have you ever seen the movie, Um, Marjo, No,

2068
02:07:49,640 --> 02:07:53,080
Speaker 1: I have not. There's a couple of it's about the

2069
02:07:53,200 --> 02:07:57,840
Speaker 1: evangelical movement right at the start of the religious right, okay,

2070
02:07:58,080 --> 02:08:00,640
Speaker 1: the Fallwell Days and everything, And there's a couple of

2071
02:08:00,760 --> 02:08:06,000
Speaker 1: moments that show an early megachurch with a majority black

2072
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:10,280
Speaker 1: congregation and incredible singers and incredible music acts and then

2073
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:13,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of like old white people running things and

2074
02:08:14,040 --> 02:08:18,040
Speaker 1: taking all the money. Um, I don't know, Yeah, it

2075
02:08:18,120 --> 02:08:22,080
Speaker 1: makes me think about that. I don't know entirely. The

2076
02:08:22,480 --> 02:08:24,680
Speaker 1: and the thing is like, like I said, you know, uh,

2077
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:29,720
Speaker 1: obviously as a fan of the show, you know I'm familiar,

2078
02:08:30,000 --> 02:08:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, getting same with your your history and even

2079
02:08:32,720 --> 02:08:37,280
Speaker 1: you describing your history of church is just like that's

2080
02:08:37,320 --> 02:08:39,640
Speaker 1: just not my experience, Like that wasn't the church we

2081
02:08:39,720 --> 02:08:41,520
Speaker 1: were in, because I was just in a whole different tradition.

2082
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:46,880
Speaker 1: So when you when you come across and I like,

2083
02:08:47,000 --> 02:08:50,880
Speaker 1: I can't stress this enough, when you come across you know,

2084
02:08:51,080 --> 02:08:53,720
Speaker 1: the Nashville of it all, the like the CCM of

2085
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:57,360
Speaker 1: it all, like in in and these bigger, you know, suburban,

2086
02:08:57,520 --> 02:09:03,480
Speaker 1: mega white churches like you again you think you're saying

2087
02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:06,800
Speaker 1: the same thing, like you you just it's this weird

2088
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:10,200
Speaker 1: like and I know one of the things for me

2089
02:09:10,440 --> 02:09:14,800
Speaker 1: was like and then Oscar Grant happened, you know what

2090
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean. And then Mike Brown happened, and then I'm

2091
02:09:16,920 --> 02:09:19,520
Speaker 1: like and then you realize like, oh yeah, no, we're not,

2092
02:09:20,600 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 1: We're not. And then that begins. Then you start questioning

2093
02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:25,360
Speaker 1: your all background, like dude, well like well what did

2094
02:09:25,440 --> 02:09:27,120
Speaker 1: we believe? And we was kids, you know what I'm saying.

2095
02:09:27,400 --> 02:09:30,360
Speaker 1: And then looking at the Sunday looking at this Sunday service,

2096
02:09:30,440 --> 02:09:34,440
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, this is this is youth group.

2097
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:37,240
Speaker 1: That's we did a youth group. You just you know,

2098
02:09:37,840 --> 02:09:40,680
Speaker 1: you get a good singer and they remix a Jodacye

2099
02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:44,000
Speaker 1: song and just praise in it. You know what I'm saying.

2100
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:47,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is You're just singing up a

2101
02:09:47,480 --> 02:09:50,680
Speaker 1: pop song and you're just giving it Christian words. This

2102
02:09:50,880 --> 02:09:54,920
Speaker 1: isn't clever, Like you know, we've we've been doing this,

2103
02:09:55,720 --> 02:09:58,400
Speaker 1: you know. And and but then like like yeah, like

2104
02:09:59,320 --> 02:10:02,040
Speaker 1: the same thing like once you exit that like you

2105
02:10:02,160 --> 02:10:04,360
Speaker 1: know that subculture and you start like breathing the air

2106
02:10:04,440 --> 02:10:06,720
Speaker 1: and you're just like, oh, so you so you're telling

2107
02:10:06,760 --> 02:10:08,920
Speaker 1: me Muslims don't have horns and aren't you know what

2108
02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:10,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying, going to immediately going to, well, it's not

2109
02:10:11,080 --> 02:10:15,160
Speaker 1: like that. It turns out there just wonderful human beings

2110
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:18,280
Speaker 1: that believe beautiful things. Then you start looking back and

2111
02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:20,560
Speaker 1: you're going, damn, maybe I was kind of maybe I

2112
02:10:20,640 --> 02:10:23,680
Speaker 1: did kind of drink that cool aid, you know. But yeah,

2113
02:10:23,960 --> 02:10:26,320
Speaker 1: and we're talking about, you know, when we're talking about

2114
02:10:26,360 --> 02:10:29,600
Speaker 1: how kind of the white suburban church can be sometimes

2115
02:10:29,640 --> 02:10:31,360
Speaker 1: saying the same words but also be very different. We'll

2116
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:34,360
Speaker 1: be talking about Joel Osteen in a little bit. Oh yes,

2117
02:10:34,680 --> 02:10:38,880
Speaker 1: oh yes, yes, the smile and prata like I'm telling

2118
02:10:38,920 --> 02:10:41,120
Speaker 1: you dig like you just you just and then yeah,

2119
02:10:41,240 --> 02:10:44,000
Speaker 1: once you once, once the veil comes off and you

2120
02:10:44,160 --> 02:10:47,240
Speaker 1: realize like the way these people are talking to you.

2121
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:51,400
Speaker 1: And for me, it was like, oh shit, you use

2122
02:10:51,600 --> 02:10:55,720
Speaker 1: the same the same words you're using about my experience,

2123
02:10:56,080 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 1: you're using about the queer community, I'm using about the

2124
02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:03,480
Speaker 1: trans community. And then you start going, oh ship, oh okay,

2125
02:11:03,560 --> 02:11:05,640
Speaker 1: oh it's on now you know what I'm saying. Now

2126
02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:08,440
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, nah, I'm cool on all this. Let

2127
02:11:08,480 --> 02:11:11,800
Speaker 1: me let me go, let me go to Ethiopia, you know,

2128
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:14,200
Speaker 1: just let me see what y'all think about this, you know.

2129
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:18,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, any anyway, yeah, that that that that aspect

2130
02:11:19,160 --> 02:11:22,120
Speaker 1: and then I mean, I'm I'm I'm rambling because it's

2131
02:11:22,120 --> 02:11:24,400
Speaker 1: such it's so close to home. This Kanye said, is

2132
02:11:24,440 --> 02:11:29,440
Speaker 1: so close to home that like, you're like, because I

2133
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:32,040
Speaker 1: can see how you'd fall for it. It's what I'm

2134
02:11:32,040 --> 02:11:34,240
Speaker 1: trying to say. I can see how he'd fall for it,

2135
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, kind of at the height of his Sunday

2136
02:11:37,600 --> 02:11:40,880
Speaker 1: Service stuff in twenty nine is when Kanye started openly

2137
02:11:40,960 --> 02:11:45,320
Speaker 1: talking about his born again conversion to Christianity. I'm gonna,

2138
02:11:45,480 --> 02:11:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna quote a Fox News article quote, Yeah,

2139
02:11:50,360 --> 02:11:54,600
Speaker 1: you must be born again. Kanye West and Kim Kardashian

2140
02:11:54,960 --> 02:11:57,960
Speaker 1: shared their Christian faith in a big way over this weekend.

2141
02:11:58,560 --> 02:12:02,000
Speaker 1: Adam Tyson, a pastor from the southern California, told Fox

2142
02:12:02,120 --> 02:12:05,360
Speaker 1: News recently that he's been leading West in a Bible

2143
02:12:05,440 --> 02:12:09,000
Speaker 1: study for months now and would quote teach from God's

2144
02:12:09,040 --> 02:12:11,920
Speaker 1: Word about how salvation is only by grace alone, through

2145
02:12:11,960 --> 02:12:17,640
Speaker 1: faith alone, in Christ alone. Great cutting edge journalism. I

2146
02:12:17,720 --> 02:12:22,400
Speaker 1: also reformed Calvinist talk. Yeah, it is always interesting and

2147
02:12:22,480 --> 02:12:25,520
Speaker 1: I guess meaningless because they don't have to be consistent.

2148
02:12:25,640 --> 02:12:28,440
Speaker 1: But I can remember when Kanye said what he said

2149
02:12:28,440 --> 02:12:31,280
Speaker 1: about George Bush after Katrina and the degree to which

2150
02:12:31,520 --> 02:12:35,120
Speaker 1: Fox News treated him like a fucking ghoul, like like

2151
02:12:35,240 --> 02:12:39,600
Speaker 1: the incarnation. Some of the cruelest and most racist ship

2152
02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:42,920
Speaker 1: I ever saw on Fox News was focused around that.

2153
02:12:43,360 --> 02:12:45,560
Speaker 1: But no, now he's now he's publicly praying, so like

2154
02:12:45,640 --> 02:12:47,520
Speaker 1: he's back on our side. We're all good. You know?

2155
02:12:47,720 --> 02:12:50,880
Speaker 1: That was that clip was It was around the time

2156
02:12:50,920 --> 02:12:54,480
Speaker 1: of like ring tones. It was my ring tone. I'm

2157
02:12:54,480 --> 02:12:56,720
Speaker 1: saying George Bush doesn't care about black people. That was

2158
02:12:56,760 --> 02:12:59,840
Speaker 1: my ring tone. One of those things. Fucking somebody needed

2159
02:12:59,880 --> 02:13:02,120
Speaker 1: to say it. Somebody needed to say it. Somebody needed

2160
02:13:02,160 --> 02:13:05,160
Speaker 1: to say it. Yo. And then when you see like

2161
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:08,240
Speaker 1: out of y'all remember this, but George George Bush did

2162
02:13:08,280 --> 02:13:11,600
Speaker 1: a post like presidential interview and they asked him like,

2163
02:13:12,080 --> 02:13:16,000
Speaker 1: what was your like lowest point in when your president?

2164
02:13:16,120 --> 02:13:18,160
Speaker 1: He was like when Kanye said I didn't care about

2165
02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:23,000
Speaker 1: black people, Like not the multiple invasions, not the two

2166
02:13:23,160 --> 02:13:26,320
Speaker 1: times you invaded foreign country, none of that, none of

2167
02:13:26,360 --> 02:13:31,560
Speaker 1: a war crimes, none of that cool. When you said

2168
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:34,160
Speaker 1: you won't care about black people, that is I I

2169
02:13:34,280 --> 02:13:37,240
Speaker 1: gotta say though, that's also kind of because I remember

2170
02:13:37,480 --> 02:13:40,240
Speaker 1: when he said that how happy everybody was, just because

2171
02:13:40,280 --> 02:13:42,840
Speaker 1: it was nice to see George Bush sad. But it's

2172
02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:47,720
Speaker 1: also kind of another harbinger of well, that's maybe too

2173
02:13:47,840 --> 02:13:51,760
Speaker 1: much cultural power for one man should have all that

2174
02:13:54,640 --> 02:14:00,760
Speaker 1: we got there. Yeah, because definitely added inside knew how

2175
02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:05,040
Speaker 1: to make guess it definitely added to Kanye's cash because

2176
02:14:05,040 --> 02:14:08,920
Speaker 1: it was like, bro, you you did it. You took

2177
02:14:08,960 --> 02:14:12,400
Speaker 1: down a president. Yeah, you know the last rapper town

2178
02:14:12,440 --> 02:14:15,520
Speaker 1: the president. Yes, the last rapper to take down the

2179
02:14:15,560 --> 02:14:19,080
Speaker 1: president was easy and iced tea, like it took a

2180
02:14:19,200 --> 02:14:22,800
Speaker 1: long time before we could get somebody lay easy. We're

2181
02:14:22,840 --> 02:14:24,720
Speaker 1: talking about you know, the Jerry Curl juice dripping on

2182
02:14:24,800 --> 02:14:27,840
Speaker 1: the White House like that's that's eat, that's easy, you

2183
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:30,400
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And then you know with body

2184
02:14:30,520 --> 02:14:32,640
Speaker 1: counting cop killer from iced tea, like that was the

2185
02:14:32,720 --> 02:14:35,120
Speaker 1: last time anybody was able to take out a president,

2186
02:14:35,960 --> 02:14:38,480
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm like, you didn't you and the

2187
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:42,040
Speaker 1: annals a history now, fam that's what we thought at least. Yeah,

2188
02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:44,880
Speaker 1: So I think I think stuff like that made him think.

2189
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:49,040
Speaker 1: He's like he transcended blackness the same way thinks he has.

2190
02:14:49,120 --> 02:14:52,320
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I think that mentality plays,

2191
02:14:52,400 --> 02:14:54,720
Speaker 1: in my opinion, a lot into the Messiah complex that

2192
02:14:54,840 --> 02:15:01,080
Speaker 1: he clearly has. Yeah. After the Kim kar Ashian baptism

2193
02:15:01,640 --> 02:15:06,000
Speaker 1: and the Adam Tyson Bible study groups, Kanye started talking

2194
02:15:06,120 --> 02:15:09,920
Speaker 1: much more openly about the like the evangelical style born

2195
02:15:09,960 --> 02:15:13,120
Speaker 1: again conversion that he had in t While at the

2196
02:15:13,160 --> 02:15:15,760
Speaker 1: biggest mega church in the country based out of Houston, Texas,

2197
02:15:16,320 --> 02:15:19,720
Speaker 1: Kanye talked about his recent conversion to Christianity to the

2198
02:15:19,800 --> 02:15:23,600
Speaker 1: sixteen thousand people president at the churches regular Sunday service,

2199
02:15:24,080 --> 02:15:26,960
Speaker 1: Kanye declared that he no longer cares for fame and money,

2200
02:15:27,080 --> 02:15:29,840
Speaker 1: but it's only in the service of God. And in

2201
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:33,400
Speaker 1: conversation with the celebrity pastor Joel Osteen at the church,

2202
02:15:34,000 --> 02:15:38,120
Speaker 1: Kanye said, quote, the only superstar is Jesus, and I

2203
02:15:38,280 --> 02:15:40,720
Speaker 1: know that God has been calling me for a long

2204
02:15:40,840 --> 02:15:43,320
Speaker 1: time and the devil has been distracting me for the

2205
02:15:43,400 --> 02:15:47,160
Speaker 1: long time. Here's a pro tip. The only time you'll

2206
02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:49,640
Speaker 1: ever hear someone say I no longer care for money,

2207
02:15:49,800 --> 02:15:53,080
Speaker 1: it's because their riches God right as they have enough

2208
02:15:53,160 --> 02:15:56,240
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, you have more than you could spend

2209
02:15:56,840 --> 02:16:00,440
Speaker 1: in a in a radio interview, Kanye into into detail

2210
02:16:00,480 --> 02:16:04,160
Speaker 1: about his conversion, saying that he began reading the Bible

2211
02:16:04,280 --> 02:16:08,120
Speaker 1: during his hospitalization for mental health issues and started a

2212
02:16:08,200 --> 02:16:16,040
Speaker 1: quote writing and copying out Bible versus which is not Listen, y'all.

2213
02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:19,080
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be just like blatantly anti Bible,

2214
02:16:19,160 --> 02:16:21,880
Speaker 1: but if you're in the hospital for mental issues, they

2215
02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:25,440
Speaker 1: should let people they should not let you access any

2216
02:16:25,560 --> 02:16:29,000
Speaker 1: religious text at all, like any any religious text. This

2217
02:16:29,320 --> 02:16:35,320
Speaker 1: is but like, like this whole the story is it

2218
02:16:35,520 --> 02:16:40,360
Speaker 1: is standard inner city church talk, like this is par

2219
02:16:40,560 --> 02:16:45,040
Speaker 1: for the course. You're like, look, dude, you know, you

2220
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:47,000
Speaker 1: go up and you give you give your testimony and

2221
02:16:47,080 --> 02:16:50,160
Speaker 1: testimony service. You know, I was listen, I was outside,

2222
02:16:50,200 --> 02:16:52,160
Speaker 1: I was doing all the gangs. I was with all

2223
02:16:52,200 --> 02:16:55,080
Speaker 1: the girls. And then one day I was high, you know,

2224
02:16:55,120 --> 02:16:56,880
Speaker 1: I was in nine gangs and I was and I

2225
02:16:57,000 --> 02:16:59,360
Speaker 1: was at a four day binger and I just looked

2226
02:16:59,440 --> 02:17:00,840
Speaker 1: up and I said, God, if you could get me

2227
02:17:00,920 --> 02:17:02,600
Speaker 1: out of this, you know. And then over in the

2228
02:17:02,720 --> 02:17:09,160
Speaker 1: corner I saw Bible like it's it's standard, you know. Yeah, yeah,

2229
02:17:10,200 --> 02:17:14,200
Speaker 1: it's there's so much about it that standard. Also, just

2230
02:17:14,320 --> 02:17:17,360
Speaker 1: to Evangela again, I brought up the whole. I no

2231
02:17:17,480 --> 02:17:19,680
Speaker 1: longer care about money. But every one of these rich

2232
02:17:19,760 --> 02:17:23,279
Speaker 1: megachurch pastors who is making hundreds of millions of dollars

2233
02:17:23,320 --> 02:17:25,440
Speaker 1: a year will have speeches where they're like, I don't

2234
02:17:25,480 --> 02:17:27,320
Speaker 1: care the money means nothing to me. It's all for

2235
02:17:27,480 --> 02:17:30,680
Speaker 1: God everything, like is the only real star up here?

2236
02:17:31,280 --> 02:17:36,040
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's all very again if you're I

2237
02:17:36,120 --> 02:17:39,439
Speaker 1: think this hit people like a brick who aren't familiar

2238
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:44,560
Speaker 1: having had experienced, particularly like strains of Southern Christianity. Yeah,

2239
02:17:44,760 --> 02:17:47,640
Speaker 1: but the way Kanye has been talking makes a lot

2240
02:17:47,720 --> 02:17:50,400
Speaker 1: of sense. But it's also I think that chunk of

2241
02:17:50,480 --> 02:17:54,680
Speaker 1: people were all flumeexed by the black Israelism stuff, which

2242
02:17:54,680 --> 02:18:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm guessing we're gonna talk. Yeah, that that's more North Beast.

2243
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:04,080
Speaker 1: And yes, that the Hebrews were like stuff. All right,

2244
02:18:04,160 --> 02:18:09,680
Speaker 1: let's go, so stay there A lot of thoughts. So

2245
02:18:09,920 --> 02:18:12,440
Speaker 1: around this time in nineteen is when Kanye announced that

2246
02:18:12,440 --> 02:18:15,160
Speaker 1: he's no longer making secular music, which is a term

2247
02:18:15,200 --> 02:18:22,240
Speaker 1: I heard a lot as a kid music music Absolutely not, no,

2248
02:18:23,000 --> 02:18:27,640
Speaker 1: no way, that's worldly, man worldly. When the last time

2249
02:18:27,680 --> 02:18:32,360
Speaker 1: I heard the phrase worldly, Yes, yeah's worldly. I'm in

2250
02:18:32,440 --> 02:18:38,840
Speaker 1: the world. That's right, that's right. So this led to

2251
02:18:38,959 --> 02:18:43,160
Speaker 1: his late twenty nineteen album Jesus Is King. It's objectively

2252
02:18:43,240 --> 02:18:47,440
Speaker 1: it's a good alfl um it is, but it's also

2253
02:18:47,640 --> 02:18:51,920
Speaker 1: borderline Christian dominionist in some themes. Um. The very first

2254
02:18:51,959 --> 02:18:54,039
Speaker 1: words in the album are God is King, we are

2255
02:18:54,120 --> 02:18:57,520
Speaker 1: the Soldiers um, And that song ends with the Army

2256
02:18:57,600 --> 02:19:00,560
Speaker 1: of God and we are the Truth um. So you

2257
02:19:00,600 --> 02:19:03,600
Speaker 1: know that that goes into the entire ideas about like

2258
02:19:03,600 --> 02:19:07,040
Speaker 1: the Kingdom of God where the soldiers. So in this idea,

2259
02:19:07,120 --> 02:19:11,199
Speaker 1: there's there's like there's this battle between the antagonism against

2260
02:19:11,360 --> 02:19:14,480
Speaker 1: the godly community from the forces of spiritual darkness, and

2261
02:19:14,879 --> 02:19:18,879
Speaker 1: you know, shout out and woo woo's in there. There's

2262
02:19:18,959 --> 02:19:22,200
Speaker 1: for every Christian rapper of the world who had this

2263
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:26,600
Speaker 1: guy make one one record and then cover everybody's charts,

2264
02:19:26,920 --> 02:19:28,720
Speaker 1: so now no one cares about your how you've been

2265
02:19:28,760 --> 02:19:32,320
Speaker 1: serving at these like you know camp Canna cooks, you know,

2266
02:19:33,120 --> 02:19:35,640
Speaker 1: rap it in these twelve year old white kids and

2267
02:19:35,879 --> 02:19:37,879
Speaker 1: trying to get your trying to get your albums out,

2268
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:42,800
Speaker 1: and then this will Kanye just cleans up your whole genre.

2269
02:19:43,640 --> 02:19:47,400
Speaker 1: He had the pretty funny song, in my opinion, closed

2270
02:19:47,440 --> 02:19:50,119
Speaker 1: on Sunday. You might check fil A, which I think

2271
02:19:50,240 --> 02:19:54,720
Speaker 1: is funny. Now that is that's actually pretty good. But

2272
02:19:54,879 --> 02:19:58,720
Speaker 1: the man is talented. No one's arguing about it's also

2273
02:19:58,840 --> 02:20:02,039
Speaker 1: probably sincere because saw it ends with Jesus, listen and obey.

2274
02:20:02,200 --> 02:20:05,640
Speaker 1: So like it's you know, um no, it's it's it's

2275
02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:08,800
Speaker 1: a it's it's funny. It's funny that it is. There's

2276
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:11,040
Speaker 1: this there's this like with hip hop, you know, as

2277
02:20:11,120 --> 02:20:15,279
Speaker 1: a rapper, there's this like fine line between clever bars

2278
02:20:15,480 --> 02:20:19,240
Speaker 1: and dad jokes like that it's you you you gotta

2279
02:20:19,320 --> 02:20:21,200
Speaker 1: teeter on that. And I was like, yo, you are

2280
02:20:21,480 --> 02:20:26,760
Speaker 1: dancing on that on that border with this one, you know. So,

2281
02:20:27,360 --> 02:20:32,000
Speaker 1: Evangelicals kind of embraced Kanye in this period. Some were

2282
02:20:32,040 --> 02:20:36,160
Speaker 1: obviously skeptical based on him being a black person and

2283
02:20:36,520 --> 02:20:39,760
Speaker 1: his in his general past, but overall a lot a

2284
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:42,360
Speaker 1: lot of people were happy to have kind of to

2285
02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:47,360
Speaker 1: use him as a token figure almost um Kanye in

2286
02:20:47,720 --> 02:20:50,800
Speaker 1: in a In a Guardian piece titled Kanye West is

2287
02:20:50,800 --> 02:20:56,200
Speaker 1: spreading the Gospel of white evangelicals, Malika Habali writes, quote,

2288
02:20:56,560 --> 02:21:00,280
Speaker 1: like other black conservatives, the rapper and designer down plays

2289
02:21:00,360 --> 02:21:05,400
Speaker 1: racism while promoting bootstrap virtue signaling while signifying black cultural

2290
02:21:05,480 --> 02:21:08,240
Speaker 1: and religious traditions. His album is peppered with samples of

2291
02:21:08,360 --> 02:21:13,120
Speaker 1: Black church staples like James Cleveland's God Is West advances

2292
02:21:13,360 --> 02:21:17,760
Speaker 1: the gospel of white evangelicals. Although he has challenged conventions

2293
02:21:17,800 --> 02:21:21,200
Speaker 1: in nearly every aspect of his artistic life, Kanye West

2294
02:21:21,400 --> 02:21:25,280
Speaker 1: has been born again as a conservative, and that that

2295
02:21:25,360 --> 02:21:27,600
Speaker 1: whole article is a really good piece kind of going

2296
02:21:27,640 --> 02:21:31,600
Speaker 1: into how how specifically he's the type of thing he's

2297
02:21:31,640 --> 02:21:35,240
Speaker 1: engaging with is distinct from like the Black church tradition,

2298
02:21:35,600 --> 02:21:40,200
Speaker 1: and it's just like Joel Osteen shiit alut and then

2299
02:21:40,200 --> 02:21:43,400
Speaker 1: the hill all exactly exactly do you cover Hill? Are

2300
02:21:43,400 --> 02:21:45,440
Speaker 1: we gonna talk about Hill Song at all? I don't

2301
02:21:45,480 --> 02:21:47,480
Speaker 1: have anything of Hill Song in this script. The script

2302
02:21:47,560 --> 02:21:49,200
Speaker 1: is already too long. It might it might need to

2303
02:21:49,240 --> 02:21:51,960
Speaker 1: be a two parter at this point. Will probably do

2304
02:21:52,280 --> 02:21:55,720
Speaker 1: Hill Song on bTB at some point. Hill Song was

2305
02:21:55,760 --> 02:21:58,680
Speaker 1: a big part of my childhood. Yea is a big

2306
02:21:58,840 --> 02:22:04,640
Speaker 1: part of the whole fascism. It's yeah, I really feel

2307
02:22:04,720 --> 02:22:10,720
Speaker 1: like I really feel like just as just secular, just

2308
02:22:10,959 --> 02:22:14,800
Speaker 1: just the idea of just like secular, like academia. Anybody

2309
02:22:14,840 --> 02:22:19,440
Speaker 1: who studies culture. I feel like the effects of something

2310
02:22:19,560 --> 02:22:22,400
Speaker 1: like a hill song is always siloed into this like

2311
02:22:23,120 --> 02:22:24,800
Speaker 1: study of religion, you know what I mean, This is

2312
02:22:24,879 --> 02:22:32,560
Speaker 1: just this state, but like really the cultural societal impact

2313
02:22:32,840 --> 02:22:36,840
Speaker 1: global like of something like a hill song stretches so

2314
02:22:37,280 --> 02:22:41,680
Speaker 1: far past just a theological or religious thing. I think.

2315
02:22:41,680 --> 02:22:45,320
Speaker 1: I don't think people really understand like the influence something

2316
02:22:45,400 --> 02:22:47,360
Speaker 1: like a hill song would have. And just like any

2317
02:22:47,440 --> 02:22:50,200
Speaker 1: other thing, it's like, you know, a sward in there,

2318
02:22:50,560 --> 02:22:52,680
Speaker 1: mess cool people there, you know what I'm saying, go

2319
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:55,160
Speaker 1: on me, you know what I mean. There's some stuff

2320
02:22:55,160 --> 02:22:56,840
Speaker 1: that I was just like, all right, yeah, y'all weird

2321
02:22:56,879 --> 02:23:03,560
Speaker 1: those but you know, but generally it's like I mean, yeah,

2322
02:23:03,680 --> 02:23:05,920
Speaker 1: like you just be DMX went to Hillsong, New York,

2323
02:23:06,000 --> 02:23:09,400
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Like, so this the type

2324
02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:17,600
Speaker 1: of influence over so much of the even just pop music.

2325
02:23:17,720 --> 02:23:21,160
Speaker 1: It's like you'll understand like like top you know, number

2326
02:23:21,160 --> 02:23:23,640
Speaker 1: of Top forty pop songs were actually written by their

2327
02:23:23,720 --> 02:23:26,440
Speaker 1: worship band, like just stuff like that. Like that, the

2328
02:23:26,640 --> 02:23:29,560
Speaker 1: effects of something like a hill song, I feel like,

2329
02:23:29,720 --> 02:23:35,400
Speaker 1: is grossly under under reported and underrated. Another interesting note

2330
02:23:35,600 --> 02:23:40,320
Speaker 1: um the University of Virginia professor Ashton Crawley wrote for

2331
02:23:40,440 --> 02:23:43,560
Speaker 1: NPR and saying, quote, Kanye West has used the concept

2332
02:23:43,640 --> 02:23:48,039
Speaker 1: of salvation to disallow thoughtful engagement with his politics because

2333
02:23:48,040 --> 02:23:50,959
Speaker 1: I think it's an interesting sidebar to kind of everything

2334
02:23:51,000 --> 02:23:55,160
Speaker 1: we've talked about, especially with his with his more evangelical

2335
02:23:55,200 --> 02:23:59,039
Speaker 1: stuff coming directly after his Trump stuff. UM. Now, obviously

2336
02:23:59,120 --> 02:24:01,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on inside Kanye's head, nor

2337
02:24:01,240 --> 02:24:04,000
Speaker 1: can I judge his sincerity of faith, but I can

2338
02:24:04,120 --> 02:24:07,800
Speaker 1: certainly see the business aspect of brownding yourself as basically

2339
02:24:07,879 --> 02:24:13,040
Speaker 1: the first like extremely mainstream Christian rap artist in twenty nineteen,

2340
02:24:13,080 --> 02:24:15,480
Speaker 1: I can totally I can see from a business perspective

2341
02:24:16,040 --> 02:24:19,240
Speaker 1: what happened in with his politics. I can I can

2342
02:24:19,320 --> 02:24:23,000
Speaker 1: see how this may have been a gamble that he took.

2343
02:24:23,720 --> 02:24:28,480
Speaker 1: Um so throughout after his Sunday service can of era,

2344
02:24:29,160 --> 02:24:33,280
Speaker 1: Kanye was kind of running for president, but like not really.

2345
02:24:33,840 --> 02:24:37,560
Speaker 1: It mostly seems to be a publicity thing. Um. His

2346
02:24:37,720 --> 02:24:40,520
Speaker 1: campaign obviously did not result in him becoming naming president,

2347
02:24:40,920 --> 02:24:42,960
Speaker 1: but it did result in his wife divorcing him in

2348
02:24:43,080 --> 02:24:47,160
Speaker 1: favor of Pete Davidson. Uh. The most notable aspect of

2349
02:24:47,280 --> 02:24:50,640
Speaker 1: his campaign is in July, at a rally in North Charleston,

2350
02:24:50,800 --> 02:24:53,360
Speaker 1: South Carolina, Kanye broke down into here is as he

2351
02:24:53,640 --> 02:24:55,920
Speaker 1: as he claimed that him and his wife had discussed

2352
02:24:55,959 --> 02:25:01,240
Speaker 1: aboarding their first child. UM. This allegedly at his wife

2353
02:25:01,440 --> 02:25:05,960
Speaker 1: mortified and quote deeply worried over Kanye's mental state, which

2354
02:25:06,160 --> 02:25:10,720
Speaker 1: eventually led to their divorce. Kanye continued and continues to

2355
02:25:10,760 --> 02:25:13,920
Speaker 1: focus on abortion. UM, but he continued to talk about

2356
02:25:13,920 --> 02:25:18,120
Speaker 1: that throughout his quote unquote campaign and in interviews. UM.

2357
02:25:18,280 --> 02:25:21,440
Speaker 1: Later that September, he said that God revealed to him,

2358
02:25:21,560 --> 02:25:26,520
Speaker 1: quote the black genocide that is abortion. Um. God revealed

2359
02:25:26,600 --> 02:25:30,279
Speaker 1: that to him. Is this the same line? Yeah, I'll

2360
02:25:30,320 --> 02:25:32,280
Speaker 1: say this. I don't have a lot of nice things

2361
02:25:32,560 --> 02:25:35,840
Speaker 1: or a lot to say at all about Kim Kardashian,

2362
02:25:36,080 --> 02:25:38,840
Speaker 1: But one of the first thing I thought back when

2363
02:25:38,879 --> 02:25:43,640
Speaker 1: he got institutionalized during his mental health outbreak is like, oh,

2364
02:25:43,720 --> 02:25:46,480
Speaker 1: people actually care about him, Like he actually has people

2365
02:25:46,480 --> 02:25:48,120
Speaker 1: in his life who love him and are making him

2366
02:25:48,160 --> 02:25:51,600
Speaker 1: seek help. UM, which a lot of very famous people

2367
02:25:51,680 --> 02:25:56,400
Speaker 1: who have you know, psychotic episodes and stuff don't don't

2368
02:25:56,480 --> 02:25:58,760
Speaker 1: have that. Right. No one around them is willing to

2369
02:25:58,800 --> 02:26:01,720
Speaker 1: be critical enough to be like, you need help, right, now, yeah,

2370
02:26:02,320 --> 02:26:06,000
Speaker 1: it does seem like she really tried to help. Yeah,

2371
02:26:06,040 --> 02:26:09,040
Speaker 1: it's crazy to think that, like like on you on

2372
02:26:09,200 --> 02:26:13,760
Speaker 1: our like bingo card, that the adult in the room

2373
02:26:14,560 --> 02:26:18,760
Speaker 1: was going to be Kim Kardashian. Yeah, he would have

2374
02:26:18,840 --> 02:26:22,160
Speaker 1: not predicted that, you know her, her actions in the

2375
02:26:22,320 --> 02:26:27,720
Speaker 1: marriage make sense to me. Yeah. So with all of

2376
02:26:27,879 --> 02:26:31,120
Speaker 1: that context, this finally leads us to our main topic

2377
02:26:31,200 --> 02:26:35,800
Speaker 1: of discussion. We haven't got there yet. Recent actions cove

2378
02:26:35,800 --> 02:26:38,200
Speaker 1: and s leaked to white supremacy and anti Semitism. So

2379
02:26:39,080 --> 02:26:42,880
Speaker 1: this most recent circus started at the beginning of October

2380
02:26:43,120 --> 02:26:47,360
Speaker 1: during Paris Fashion Week, where Kanye literally hand in hand

2381
02:26:47,560 --> 02:26:51,360
Speaker 1: with far right media personality kendas Owen's debuted his new

2382
02:26:51,520 --> 02:26:54,400
Speaker 1: line of T shirts while wearing a long sleeve that

2383
02:26:54,560 --> 02:26:59,240
Speaker 1: read White Lives Matter. Now this is this The slogan

2384
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:03,720
Speaker 1: is obviously response to blm UM, but the more formal

2385
02:27:04,000 --> 02:27:08,040
Speaker 1: like White Lives Matter movement is is like an explicitly

2386
02:27:08,120 --> 02:27:11,359
Speaker 1: neo Nazi group tied to the area in resistance society,

2387
02:27:11,800 --> 02:27:14,720
Speaker 1: the National Socialist movement and the loyal white nights of

2388
02:27:14,760 --> 02:27:18,520
Speaker 1: the Ku Klux Kan. So it's like the the actual

2389
02:27:18,560 --> 02:27:22,560
Speaker 1: group is explicitly like Nazis, but obviously the slogan is

2390
02:27:22,640 --> 02:27:25,520
Speaker 1: not it's easy to coup with the slogan white Lives matter,

2391
02:27:25,640 --> 02:27:28,040
Speaker 1: Like it's not like that's not like where did he

2392
02:27:28,160 --> 02:27:33,280
Speaker 1: get that from? Like? Come on? So Kanye's promotion of

2393
02:27:33,360 --> 02:27:38,080
Speaker 1: the slogan was obviously celebrated by many neo fascist online celebrities.

2394
02:27:38,440 --> 02:27:42,840
Speaker 1: Nick Fuentez of America first forwarded the post, saying that

2395
02:27:43,000 --> 02:27:47,080
Speaker 1: quote anti white racism and white Lives matter are now mainstream.

2396
02:27:47,440 --> 02:27:51,760
Speaker 1: This is an unambiguous win. Um and then A. Tucker

2397
02:27:51,959 --> 02:27:54,400
Speaker 1: was very quick to do a segment on his show

2398
02:27:54,480 --> 02:27:57,480
Speaker 1: where he wondered what the T shirt was really about.

2399
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:02,360
Speaker 1: Days ago, during Action Week in Paris, West, accompanied by

2400
02:28:02,400 --> 02:28:05,600
Speaker 1: his friend Candice Owens, unveiled a T shirt that read

2401
02:28:05,680 --> 02:28:09,680
Speaker 1: simply white Lives Matter. The response from the fashion industry

2402
02:28:09,720 --> 02:28:15,320
Speaker 1: in international media was instantaneous and uniform shock, horror rage.

2403
02:28:15,720 --> 02:28:18,600
Speaker 1: There was no excuse for this, thundered The New York Times.

2404
02:28:18,879 --> 02:28:24,280
Speaker 1: West is legitimizing extremism, shrieked Rolling Stone, etcetera, etcetera. What

2405
02:28:24,440 --> 02:28:27,160
Speaker 1: was strikingly missing from the coverage, whoever, was any explanation

2406
02:28:27,280 --> 02:28:30,400
Speaker 1: for why West did this? What was the T shirt about?

2407
02:28:31,120 --> 02:28:33,040
Speaker 1: No one seemed to think to ask him, much less

2408
02:28:33,080 --> 02:28:35,720
Speaker 1: to listen to what he had to say. Instead, the

2409
02:28:35,840 --> 02:28:39,240
Speaker 1: enemies of his ideas dismissed West, as they have for years,

2410
02:28:39,440 --> 02:28:42,840
Speaker 1: as mentally ill, too crazy to take seriously. Look away,

2411
02:28:42,959 --> 02:28:46,120
Speaker 1: ignore him. He's a mental patient. There's nothing to see here.

2412
02:28:46,560 --> 02:28:49,000
Speaker 1: I don't know who's who's to say, who who's to say?

2413
02:28:49,080 --> 02:28:52,000
Speaker 1: Really surprised all the all Lives Matter people weren't in

2414
02:28:52,120 --> 02:28:59,680
Speaker 1: such an uproar about that. Yeah. The next Monday, Kanye

2415
02:28:59,760 --> 02:29:03,400
Speaker 1: wrote on Instagram, quote everyone knows that Black Lives Matter

2416
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:09,480
Speaker 1: was a scam. Now it's over your welcome unquote. This

2417
02:29:09,720 --> 02:29:12,359
Speaker 1: is this is this is right. This is like direct

2418
02:29:12,520 --> 02:29:15,680
Speaker 1: Candace Owen's ship in a way that will explain later.

2419
02:29:16,560 --> 02:29:20,760
Speaker 1: Um but so, a few days after Kanye and models

2420
02:29:20,840 --> 02:29:24,000
Speaker 1: for his new uh Easy lineup don the White Lives

2421
02:29:24,040 --> 02:29:27,160
Speaker 1: Matter t shirts at Paris Fashion Week, he himself made

2422
02:29:27,240 --> 02:29:31,200
Speaker 1: an appearance, um to quote Rolling Stone on the show

2423
02:29:31,320 --> 02:29:35,960
Speaker 1: Where White Lives Matter the Most, Tucker Carlson's Fox News show,

2424
02:29:36,080 --> 02:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Tuck Across It Tonight. Honestly, solid, solid turn of phrase. Yeah,

2425
02:29:41,840 --> 02:29:45,760
Speaker 1: that's that's a good way to write that. Good. Thank

2426
02:29:45,959 --> 02:29:49,160
Speaker 1: thank you, comrade rolling Stone. So you made reference to

2427
02:29:49,200 --> 02:29:51,800
Speaker 1: the white Lives Matter T shirt she brought out at

2428
02:29:52,200 --> 02:29:55,080
Speaker 1: Paris Fashion Week. Why did you do that? And what

2429
02:29:55,200 --> 02:30:01,720
Speaker 1: did it mean? You know, I did I do certain

2430
02:30:01,760 --> 02:30:04,280
Speaker 1: things from a feeling. I like, I just I just

2431
02:30:04,480 --> 02:30:10,560
Speaker 1: channeled the energy. It just feels right. It's using a

2432
02:30:10,680 --> 02:30:16,440
Speaker 1: gut instinct, a connection with God and just brilliance. You know,

2433
02:30:16,600 --> 02:30:21,440
Speaker 1: because if you ask, like Tanya Harding how she did

2434
02:30:21,520 --> 02:30:24,960
Speaker 1: the triple flip or the triple spin, she was in

2435
02:30:25,080 --> 02:30:27,680
Speaker 1: so much practice that when it was time for her

2436
02:30:27,800 --> 02:30:33,640
Speaker 1: to skate in a in a competitive format, it just happened.

2437
02:30:33,760 --> 02:30:35,680
Speaker 1: Like it happened outside of practice, that happened in the

2438
02:30:35,760 --> 02:30:39,400
Speaker 1: real format. And that's what happened. That's what's happening. Is

2439
02:30:39,520 --> 02:30:42,640
Speaker 1: God is like preparing us for the real for the

2440
02:30:42,720 --> 02:30:45,520
Speaker 1: real battles, and we are we are in a battle

2441
02:30:45,720 --> 02:30:49,160
Speaker 1: with the media, like the majority of the media has

2442
02:30:49,800 --> 02:30:56,720
Speaker 1: a godless agenda. Oh that's a brilliant so uh. In

2443
02:30:56,760 --> 02:30:58,560
Speaker 1: the cliff, he talks about this idea coming to him

2444
02:30:58,560 --> 02:31:02,760
Speaker 1: as like a feeling. Um. This is basically the same

2445
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:06,000
Speaker 1: explanation that he gave for wearing the Mega hat. It's

2446
02:31:06,040 --> 02:31:11,240
Speaker 1: like a spontaneous gut instinct or feeling. The spontaneous decision

2447
02:31:12,920 --> 02:31:15,640
Speaker 1: to make model and sell over priced printed T shirts

2448
02:31:16,800 --> 02:31:19,800
Speaker 1: that about like wearing a kilt. I remember for one

2449
02:31:19,840 --> 02:31:22,360
Speaker 1: of the records, he said he had that feeling over

2450
02:31:22,480 --> 02:31:24,199
Speaker 1: that he was going to do it in Chicago because

2451
02:31:24,240 --> 02:31:26,959
Speaker 1: he wanted to set young black man free. So he's

2452
02:31:27,000 --> 02:31:30,480
Speaker 1: gonna wear a kilt. Uh. He also said when he

2453
02:31:30,600 --> 02:31:32,520
Speaker 1: was going to run for president that it just happened

2454
02:31:32,520 --> 02:31:34,960
Speaker 1: in the shower and he just started laughing and he

2455
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:37,360
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonnaround for president. I'm gonna be the president.

2456
02:31:37,959 --> 02:31:41,920
Speaker 1: I don't like not believe him that these exact like

2457
02:31:42,160 --> 02:31:46,280
Speaker 1: come this way like exactly, Like, yeah, that probably, but

2458
02:31:46,400 --> 02:31:49,080
Speaker 1: it's it's funny to frame the decision to like do

2459
02:31:49,280 --> 02:31:52,480
Speaker 1: these very planned out things as just a single, like

2460
02:31:52,920 --> 02:31:56,760
Speaker 1: gut gut moment of spontaneous instinct, because making and producing

2461
02:31:56,800 --> 02:31:59,320
Speaker 1: T shirts takes like it's like a process. And he

2462
02:31:59,440 --> 02:32:01,920
Speaker 1: talked about as if he decided to do this like

2463
02:32:02,080 --> 02:32:05,480
Speaker 1: right before going on stage at Paris Fashion Week, which like, no,

2464
02:32:05,680 --> 02:32:08,360
Speaker 1: like this was like a decision that you made and

2465
02:32:08,520 --> 02:32:13,080
Speaker 1: you then took steps to execute um. So in then

2466
02:32:13,120 --> 02:32:16,120
Speaker 1: in that section of the interview, Kanye did go on

2467
02:32:16,560 --> 02:32:19,680
Speaker 1: to dismiss the assertion that his behavior is a result

2468
02:32:19,800 --> 02:32:23,039
Speaker 1: of any mental health issues. Um. Then, in a segment

2469
02:32:23,160 --> 02:32:26,760
Speaker 1: talking about Lizzo and body positivity, Tucker and Kanye had

2470
02:32:26,840 --> 02:32:30,800
Speaker 1: this exchange referencing body weight being demonic and a part

2471
02:32:30,879 --> 02:32:38,160
Speaker 1: of quote, black genocide. It's actually clinically unhealthy and for

2472
02:32:38,440 --> 02:32:46,520
Speaker 1: people to owe to promote that. Um, it's said it's demonic.

2473
02:32:47,400 --> 02:32:49,879
Speaker 1: You know what would I ask you? I've noticed this? Also,

2474
02:32:50,680 --> 02:32:53,720
Speaker 1: why do you think they would want to promote unhealthiness

2475
02:32:53,959 --> 02:32:56,800
Speaker 1: among the population. It's a genocide of the black race.

2476
02:32:57,240 --> 02:32:59,800
Speaker 1: They want to kill us in any way they can.

2477
02:33:00,640 --> 02:33:02,880
Speaker 1: Kanye then goes on to talk about like abortion also

2478
02:33:02,959 --> 02:33:05,879
Speaker 1: being black genocide, which he has been talking a lot

2479
02:33:05,959 --> 02:33:18,320
Speaker 1: about in the past few weeks. Um, Yeah, that Lizzo clip, Like, man,

2480
02:33:18,680 --> 02:33:25,520
Speaker 1: it's that was like just like I mean like I

2481
02:33:26,080 --> 02:33:30,600
Speaker 1: can only wait, I can only think of like vulgar

2482
02:33:30,680 --> 02:33:33,320
Speaker 1: phrases to describe it where it's just like it just

2483
02:33:33,480 --> 02:33:36,119
Speaker 1: it just kicked me in my balls, dude, like we're

2484
02:33:36,120 --> 02:33:38,800
Speaker 1: already on the ground. Just that's what if it's just

2485
02:33:38,840 --> 02:33:40,760
Speaker 1: felt like a ball stomp or it's just like you

2486
02:33:40,840 --> 02:33:45,160
Speaker 1: don't have to come on, man, you're a you're down,

2487
02:33:45,280 --> 02:33:50,400
Speaker 1: bad bro. Like, really, I got nothing, man, Like, why

2488
02:33:50,440 --> 02:33:54,120
Speaker 1: are you going to I'm gonna like, it's exhausting. Yeah,

2489
02:33:54,160 --> 02:33:56,320
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to say. It's exhausting. Were just like, yeah,

2490
02:33:56,440 --> 02:34:00,760
Speaker 1: all of all of the coverage is exhausting, and feeding

2491
02:34:00,800 --> 02:34:04,440
Speaker 1: in and like, the feeding into it as media spectacle

2492
02:34:04,560 --> 02:34:07,600
Speaker 1: only encourages this type of like unhealthy behavior and it

2493
02:34:07,720 --> 02:34:10,640
Speaker 1: does not help. Like it it doesn't help to be

2494
02:34:10,760 --> 02:34:14,280
Speaker 1: a regular person on social media having like strangers interact

2495
02:34:14,320 --> 02:34:16,560
Speaker 1: with you in a weird way, let alone, if if

2496
02:34:16,560 --> 02:34:18,560
Speaker 1: you're one of the most famous people in the world, like,

2497
02:34:18,680 --> 02:34:22,320
Speaker 1: it's it's not it's not healthy. I'm going to quote

2498
02:34:22,360 --> 02:34:24,320
Speaker 1: from New Republic, and this is kind of about his

2499
02:34:24,640 --> 02:34:28,240
Speaker 1: White Lives Matter shirt and his initial Tucker Carlson appearance

2500
02:34:28,360 --> 02:34:32,520
Speaker 1: quote little more than a troll, another tiresome and mediocre

2501
02:34:32,760 --> 02:34:36,160
Speaker 1: provocation to stirrup attention by using a contrarian slogan that

2502
02:34:36,280 --> 02:34:40,160
Speaker 1: until now was mostly associated with far right white supremacists.

2503
02:34:40,840 --> 02:34:43,840
Speaker 1: West has in recent years made more waves with his

2504
02:34:43,920 --> 02:34:46,840
Speaker 1: efforts to trigger the libs than he has with his music.

2505
02:34:47,240 --> 02:34:49,440
Speaker 1: White Lives Matters is still gonna associated with hate groups,

2506
02:34:49,879 --> 02:34:53,160
Speaker 1: but he got what he sought attention and amplification from

2507
02:34:53,200 --> 02:34:56,320
Speaker 1: Republicans and right wing media, West earned to sit down

2508
02:34:56,400 --> 02:34:59,440
Speaker 1: with Fox News on Tucker Carlson Tonight to talk about

2509
02:34:59,520 --> 02:35:03,200
Speaker 1: his boy Trump and the response he has received his

2510
02:35:03,280 --> 02:35:08,200
Speaker 1: overall negaification. Carlson was hardly alone and celebrating West for

2511
02:35:08,320 --> 02:35:11,280
Speaker 1: not only rejecting Black Lives matter, but promoting the same

2512
02:35:11,400 --> 02:35:15,360
Speaker 1: sense of white grievance and victimization that he has trumpeted

2513
02:35:15,440 --> 02:35:18,560
Speaker 1: on his Fox News program for years. The Republican House

2514
02:35:18,680 --> 02:35:22,879
Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee Twitter account spent hours slabbing over the interview,

2515
02:35:23,240 --> 02:35:25,640
Speaker 1: taking a victory lap of sorts for It's a new

2516
02:35:25,720 --> 02:35:30,120
Speaker 1: generation of edge Lords and the A tweet from the

2517
02:35:30,480 --> 02:35:33,879
Speaker 1: the Judiciary gop account is still up that just reads

2518
02:35:34,240 --> 02:35:40,440
Speaker 1: Kanye period elon period Trump period, which my god, if

2519
02:35:40,520 --> 02:35:43,120
Speaker 1: that's the state of the of the Republican Party, like

2520
02:35:44,200 --> 02:35:52,400
Speaker 1: this your king yah ah. So at first, Kanye appeared

2521
02:35:52,480 --> 02:35:56,199
Speaker 1: to relish in the T shirt controversy, writing on Instagram

2522
02:35:56,360 --> 02:36:01,480
Speaker 1: that my one T shirt took all the attention. After

2523
02:36:01,640 --> 02:36:04,440
Speaker 1: the T shirt incident, Adidas said that they were placing

2524
02:36:04,520 --> 02:36:09,480
Speaker 1: its lucrative sneaker deal under review. The previous month, Kanye

2525
02:36:09,560 --> 02:36:13,400
Speaker 1: exited his deal with the Gap, and you know several

2526
02:36:13,480 --> 02:36:18,520
Speaker 1: contemporaries of Kanye did push back on this ship that

2527
02:36:18,600 --> 02:36:23,080
Speaker 1: he was pulling um, including a rapper Sean Diddy Combs

2528
02:36:23,160 --> 02:36:25,160
Speaker 1: who Can, who condemned the design in a video on

2529
02:36:25,240 --> 02:36:29,400
Speaker 1: Instagram and said, don't wear the shirt, don't buy the shirt,

2530
02:36:29,520 --> 02:36:33,040
Speaker 1: don't play with the shirt. This is not a joke. Um.

2531
02:36:33,640 --> 02:36:35,840
Speaker 1: And what happened next took things to a new level

2532
02:36:35,920 --> 02:36:40,200
Speaker 1: of grotesqueness. West spent the next few days spewing anti

2533
02:36:40,240 --> 02:36:44,080
Speaker 1: Semitic vitriol online, first on on Instagram, where Kanye posted

2534
02:36:44,120 --> 02:36:46,800
Speaker 1: screenshots from a private message exchange between him and Combs

2535
02:36:47,160 --> 02:36:51,640
Speaker 1: where he suggested that Combs was being controlled by Jewish people, saying,

2536
02:36:51,920 --> 02:36:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use you as an example to show the

2537
02:36:54,000 --> 02:36:56,880
Speaker 1: Jewish people that told you to call me that no

2538
02:36:57,040 --> 02:37:02,440
Speaker 1: one can threaten or influence me. So obviously not great,

2539
02:37:02,520 --> 02:37:10,480
Speaker 1: playing at being influenced by yes bye bye, like by

2540
02:37:10,560 --> 02:37:15,440
Speaker 1: fossil fuel billionaires essentially. Um, but yeah, obviously not playing

2541
02:37:15,640 --> 02:37:17,880
Speaker 1: not great, playing right into the kind of ideas that

2542
02:37:18,000 --> 02:37:22,240
Speaker 1: Jewish people like control into the entertainment industry and like

2543
02:37:22,920 --> 02:37:26,360
Speaker 1: have direct influence on what people say, you know, basic

2544
02:37:26,400 --> 02:37:29,760
Speaker 1: anti Semitism stuff. Um. So soon after this, his Instagram

2545
02:37:29,800 --> 02:37:32,920
Speaker 1: account was suspended, and then after he was locked out

2546
02:37:32,959 --> 02:37:37,160
Speaker 1: of his account, Kandie decided to re join Twitter dot

2547
02:37:37,240 --> 02:37:40,640
Speaker 1: com after a two year hiatus, and it was welcomed

2548
02:37:40,680 --> 02:37:45,440
Speaker 1: back by Elon Musk saying well, welcome back friend um.

2549
02:37:46,400 --> 02:37:51,600
Speaker 1: Minutes minutes later, minutes after elon is welcoming of Elon

2550
02:37:52,200 --> 02:37:56,600
Speaker 1: of of of minutes minutes later after after Elon's welcoming

2551
02:37:57,280 --> 02:38:01,879
Speaker 1: of of of Kanye West, Cannie tweeted, I'm a bit

2552
02:38:01,959 --> 02:38:05,119
Speaker 1: sleepy tonight, which is a weird way to open this tweet.

2553
02:38:05,200 --> 02:38:09,960
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm a bit sleepy tonight. Okay, but

2554
02:38:10,080 --> 02:38:12,959
Speaker 1: what but when I wake up, I'm going death con

2555
02:38:13,320 --> 02:38:17,240
Speaker 1: three on Jewish people, Jewish jew Jewish people in all caps.

2556
02:38:18,000 --> 02:38:20,360
Speaker 1: The funny thing is is that I can't actually be

2557
02:38:20,520 --> 02:38:24,760
Speaker 1: anti Semitic because black people are actually jew Also, you guys,

2558
02:38:26,360 --> 02:38:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't say the whole word jewey. That was a

2559
02:38:32,160 --> 02:38:35,880
Speaker 1: that was a TV joke. That wasn't Garrison being You

2560
02:38:35,959 --> 02:38:38,160
Speaker 1: guys have twyted with me and tried to black ball

2561
02:38:38,240 --> 02:38:41,600
Speaker 1: anyone who are whoever opposes your agenda, with the follow

2562
02:38:41,640 --> 02:38:45,279
Speaker 1: up tweet saying, who do you think created cancel culture?

2563
02:38:45,840 --> 02:38:49,640
Speaker 1: Which so that's also Okay, I I do want to

2564
02:38:49,640 --> 02:38:52,840
Speaker 1: stop at that. That is a much deeper Nazi reference

2565
02:38:53,080 --> 02:38:56,600
Speaker 1: than you might guess. There's a called the culture of Critique.

2566
02:38:56,959 --> 02:39:01,080
Speaker 1: There was a deep understanding among the gi Nazis back

2567
02:39:01,120 --> 02:39:04,640
Speaker 1: in the twenties and thirties that literary criticism that like

2568
02:39:04,760 --> 02:39:07,920
Speaker 1: the idea of sort of cultural criticism, that these were

2569
02:39:08,000 --> 02:39:11,560
Speaker 1: all Jewish plots in order to like, you know, it's

2570
02:39:11,560 --> 02:39:13,360
Speaker 1: actually similar to a lot of what the rights is today,

2571
02:39:13,400 --> 02:39:15,400
Speaker 1: in order to like make white people feel bad and

2572
02:39:15,480 --> 02:39:19,120
Speaker 1: shamed about their culture um Nazis. Today, there's a book

2573
02:39:19,120 --> 02:39:20,920
Speaker 1: called a culture of the Culture of Critique or a

2574
02:39:21,040 --> 02:39:24,960
Speaker 1: culture of Critique that's about the same thing. This is

2575
02:39:25,000 --> 02:39:29,039
Speaker 1: actually a really deep idea. And Robert, are you saying

2576
02:39:29,080 --> 02:39:31,720
Speaker 1: that the cultural Marxists at the Frankfurt School invented political

2577
02:39:31,760 --> 02:39:36,160
Speaker 1: correctness to undermine Western civilization? Now I'm saying that, yes,

2578
02:39:36,360 --> 02:39:38,800
Speaker 1: But I'm also saying in a deeper sense that the

2579
02:39:38,920 --> 02:39:42,400
Speaker 1: Jews invented the concept of feeling bad about bad things

2580
02:39:42,480 --> 02:39:45,080
Speaker 1: in order to make white people feel bad about conquering

2581
02:39:45,120 --> 02:39:48,080
Speaker 1: the world, which was the original. That's that's that's the

2582
02:39:48,160 --> 02:39:52,600
Speaker 1: o G ship. Before we water this ship down, before

2583
02:39:52,840 --> 02:39:55,280
Speaker 1: before it becomes cultural Marxism back when it's good old

2584
02:39:55,280 --> 02:40:04,879
Speaker 1: fashioned cultural Bolshevism. Yes, cultur So that's the one version. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

2585
02:40:05,000 --> 02:40:09,120
Speaker 1: that's the that's the I don't know the iPhone, you

2586
02:40:09,160 --> 02:40:12,520
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. You want you want a BlackBerry racism? Yeah,

2587
02:40:12,680 --> 02:40:17,320
Speaker 1: that's right. So this is basically a lot of like

2588
02:40:17,560 --> 02:40:22,360
Speaker 1: textbook anti semitism um mixed in with some black Hebrew

2589
02:40:22,640 --> 02:40:25,800
Speaker 1: Israelite shit um about you know, being the true chosen

2590
02:40:25,879 --> 02:40:28,520
Speaker 1: people of God, kind of akin to like the if

2591
02:40:28,600 --> 02:40:30,840
Speaker 1: people listen to the show, they'll they might be familiar

2592
02:40:30,879 --> 02:40:34,000
Speaker 1: with like the Nazi Christian identity idea of white Christians

2593
02:40:34,080 --> 02:40:41,120
Speaker 1: being the real Israelites. Here, Yeah, it started, so we

2594
02:40:41,200 --> 02:40:44,560
Speaker 1: get the start of black Israelism in the Northeast into

2595
02:40:45,160 --> 02:40:47,440
Speaker 1: the Midwest. I think it's Kansas and New York City

2596
02:40:47,480 --> 02:40:50,320
Speaker 1: are two of the big early cities in the eighteen nineties,

2597
02:40:50,520 --> 02:40:54,520
Speaker 1: and it's like it's number one anti Semitic from the start.

2598
02:40:54,640 --> 02:40:57,560
Speaker 1: An awful lot of it is based around like a

2599
02:40:57,640 --> 02:41:01,320
Speaker 1: hatred of Jewish people, um. But it's also this like

2600
02:41:01,480 --> 02:41:04,960
Speaker 1: idea that there's X number thirteen lost is tribes of

2601
02:41:05,080 --> 02:41:08,680
Speaker 1: Israel and then the black people are the lost tribes

2602
02:41:08,720 --> 02:41:10,480
Speaker 1: of Israel, and so there would be mixes of like

2603
02:41:11,160 --> 02:41:15,720
Speaker 1: taking actual elements of like Hebrew religious worship and uh

2604
02:41:16,120 --> 02:41:20,520
Speaker 1: mixing them in with kind of weirder stuff. Anyway, it's

2605
02:41:20,600 --> 02:41:24,080
Speaker 1: it's it's has a long history. It is concentrated. Like

2606
02:41:24,720 --> 02:41:26,680
Speaker 1: the part of this like if you have ever spent

2607
02:41:26,760 --> 02:41:29,440
Speaker 1: time in like New York, like Philly or whatever, you

2608
02:41:29,560 --> 02:41:32,160
Speaker 1: have run into black israel Lites on the street like there,

2609
02:41:32,280 --> 02:41:35,440
Speaker 1: it's it's a thing that you will encounter. Um, there's

2610
02:41:35,480 --> 02:41:37,560
Speaker 1: not a ton of them. I think most essens like

2611
02:41:37,600 --> 02:41:41,760
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty thousand, but they're they're very vocal. Yeah.

2612
02:41:41,879 --> 02:41:44,760
Speaker 1: The phrase now with like most of the Hebrew reals lights.

2613
02:41:44,800 --> 02:41:47,160
Speaker 1: It's like the two children in Israel are the black

2614
02:41:47,240 --> 02:41:50,400
Speaker 1: Latino and this so called Native American or this. Yeah,

2615
02:41:50,680 --> 02:41:54,920
Speaker 1: so it's this this idea and here's where here's where

2616
02:41:54,920 --> 02:41:59,879
Speaker 1: it gets tantalizing and complicated in I'm saying this as

2617
02:41:59,879 --> 02:42:05,760
Speaker 1: a black man. You know, is you open your Bible

2618
02:42:06,600 --> 02:42:09,320
Speaker 1: and at the back of every bible got a map,

2619
02:42:10,120 --> 02:42:12,760
Speaker 1: and you're looking at it and you're going, well, is

2620
02:42:12,800 --> 02:42:16,400
Speaker 1: where the ship take place? Right? So you're like, well,

2621
02:42:16,480 --> 02:42:21,240
Speaker 1: how come y'all only teaching us about Europeans. You only

2622
02:42:21,320 --> 02:42:23,760
Speaker 1: talking about every painting got these white people. Everybody. You're

2623
02:42:23,760 --> 02:42:25,920
Speaker 1: just like, no, this don't this ship don't make sense,

2624
02:42:26,080 --> 02:42:29,720
Speaker 1: this can't be it. And then I'm getting I'm getting

2625
02:42:29,720 --> 02:42:33,320
Speaker 1: deep cuts here. It's like you. And then you get

2626
02:42:33,360 --> 02:42:35,520
Speaker 1: into the Book of Acts, where it's supposed to be

2627
02:42:35,600 --> 02:42:38,480
Speaker 1: the Bible, like where the gospel spreads. And the first

2628
02:42:38,520 --> 02:42:41,440
Speaker 1: time they leave, the first time they leave Israel is

2629
02:42:41,600 --> 02:42:45,640
Speaker 1: Stephen meeting in Ethiopian, just meeting the Ethiopian Unich, and

2630
02:42:45,680 --> 02:42:48,400
Speaker 1: the Ethiopian goes to where where was Moses when Moses?

2631
02:42:48,600 --> 02:42:50,720
Speaker 1: Others back in the Exitus story, where was Moses? Where

2632
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:54,000
Speaker 1: did Moses go when he fled? When he fled Egypt,

2633
02:42:54,320 --> 02:42:56,680
Speaker 1: he went to Midian, he went to Ethiopia. So you're like,

2634
02:42:56,840 --> 02:43:00,440
Speaker 1: this ship took place in Africa, right, and at the time,

2635
02:43:01,240 --> 02:43:06,360
Speaker 1: we you still believe like the Sinai Peninsula as North Africa,

2636
02:43:06,920 --> 02:43:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, so you're like, these are brown skin people.

2637
02:43:11,600 --> 02:43:15,120
Speaker 1: Why is your narrative and everything you tell me about

2638
02:43:15,120 --> 02:43:19,080
Speaker 1: white people? So if you still believe, if you were

2639
02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:22,600
Speaker 1: still sort of like in all of the story and

2640
02:43:22,720 --> 02:43:28,560
Speaker 1: the person thislike this subversive you know, socialist, you know,

2641
02:43:28,959 --> 02:43:35,720
Speaker 1: anti imperialistic, ampi, anti empire character of Jesus that you

2642
02:43:35,840 --> 02:43:39,000
Speaker 1: know you're Arab and Muslim friends still understand as as

2643
02:43:39,320 --> 02:43:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, as he says like a person, then you're like, yo,

2644
02:43:43,680 --> 02:43:45,920
Speaker 1: we might be talking about the same man here, and

2645
02:43:46,080 --> 02:43:49,200
Speaker 1: he was as brown as us. So and if you're

2646
02:43:49,240 --> 02:43:50,840
Speaker 1: like and if you're like the God, you're like, dude,

2647
02:43:50,840 --> 02:43:54,280
Speaker 1: the gospel with South we hit, we hit in Ethiopia,

2648
02:43:54,400 --> 02:43:57,199
Speaker 1: there's accident the first Christian city, like at some point

2649
02:43:57,280 --> 02:44:01,160
Speaker 1: you like, the ship didn't go north until four years later.

2650
02:44:02,040 --> 02:44:05,440
Speaker 1: So you you just draw this conclusion that like, if

2651
02:44:05,440 --> 02:44:08,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna box me out, my only response, if you're

2652
02:44:08,920 --> 02:44:11,800
Speaker 1: gonna box me out of all of the clear history

2653
02:44:12,200 --> 02:44:15,959
Speaker 1: that took place among brown skinned people, then I'm gonna

2654
02:44:16,000 --> 02:44:17,800
Speaker 1: be like, I have no choice but to be like, well,

2655
02:44:17,800 --> 02:44:20,760
Speaker 1: fuck y'all, not a true Israel over here. And if

2656
02:44:20,840 --> 02:44:23,640
Speaker 1: you read again, if you you can't not possibly be

2657
02:44:23,840 --> 02:44:28,920
Speaker 1: black and read the book of Exodus and be like, well, ship,

2658
02:44:29,080 --> 02:44:31,840
Speaker 1: that's us. You know what I'm saying. You can't like,

2659
02:44:31,959 --> 02:44:34,280
Speaker 1: how do you not see it? You know? So so

2660
02:44:34,560 --> 02:44:37,600
Speaker 1: it's it's so alluring, especially again when you go to

2661
02:44:37,680 --> 02:44:40,480
Speaker 1: the when the white pass are talking about like, well,

2662
02:44:40,600 --> 02:44:43,280
Speaker 1: your poverty is your choice, and hey, well you know,

2663
02:44:43,400 --> 02:44:45,800
Speaker 1: and your reform Calvinist person was like, well that was

2664
02:44:45,920 --> 02:44:48,720
Speaker 1: the Lord's divine will. You were you know, you were

2665
02:44:48,800 --> 02:44:52,960
Speaker 1: divinely ordained, you know, to be suffering people. And at

2666
02:44:53,040 --> 02:44:55,520
Speaker 1: least at least you got the Gospel because you were

2667
02:44:55,560 --> 02:44:58,120
Speaker 1: a slave. Maybe God was solving. You're like, fuck that

2668
02:44:58,680 --> 02:45:01,120
Speaker 1: that can't possibly be to God I'm reading about in

2669
02:45:01,200 --> 02:45:04,120
Speaker 1: this book, you know, so you're like, Okay, well I

2670
02:45:04,240 --> 02:45:06,960
Speaker 1: guess you know what I'm saying. And then it's like

2671
02:45:07,160 --> 02:45:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm ranting on this because I feel like

2672
02:45:09,120 --> 02:45:12,199
Speaker 1: like it's especially for this audience to really understand that context.

2673
02:45:12,680 --> 02:45:15,440
Speaker 1: You this this street in a lot of ways, like

2674
02:45:15,480 --> 02:45:18,000
Speaker 1: it became like this street religion. It gives these young

2675
02:45:18,120 --> 02:45:22,320
Speaker 1: men dignity, you know what I'm saying. You're you're offering

2676
02:45:22,440 --> 02:45:29,520
Speaker 1: them a sense of history and importance and dignity and

2677
02:45:29,760 --> 02:45:33,200
Speaker 1: and and order that we you usually just get from

2678
02:45:33,240 --> 02:45:35,360
Speaker 1: the streets. You know what I'm saying. It's not happening

2679
02:45:35,360 --> 02:45:37,640
Speaker 1: in the Sunday school because at church that's just oh black,

2680
02:45:37,760 --> 02:45:40,680
Speaker 1: that's just old women singing these hymns in the big hats,

2681
02:45:40,720 --> 02:45:44,080
Speaker 1: it's like I'm not getting that sort of like that

2682
02:45:44,480 --> 02:45:46,880
Speaker 1: that masculine hit, if you will, you know what I'm saying.

2683
02:45:46,920 --> 02:45:48,520
Speaker 1: So like this a lot of this faith like it

2684
02:45:48,640 --> 02:45:53,040
Speaker 1: really it attracts young men because it's like it's like

2685
02:45:53,240 --> 02:45:56,040
Speaker 1: we it's like we needed that order, We needed somebody

2686
02:45:56,120 --> 02:45:58,040
Speaker 1: to like come and like be a little more military

2687
02:45:58,040 --> 02:46:00,920
Speaker 1: about us. But then tied this longer history. Because if

2688
02:46:00,959 --> 02:46:03,760
Speaker 1: the only history you hear about yourself is your oppression

2689
02:46:04,200 --> 02:46:06,520
Speaker 1: for somebody to be like, no, you've chosen people to God,

2690
02:46:06,640 --> 02:46:09,480
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, well, hell yeah, you know. And

2691
02:46:09,560 --> 02:46:12,480
Speaker 1: then again, I can't stress this enough. Part of this

2692
02:46:12,800 --> 02:46:16,199
Speaker 1: is in reaction to what white evangelical did by trying

2693
02:46:16,240 --> 02:46:18,640
Speaker 1: to erase brown people from the history. You know what

2694
02:46:18,640 --> 02:46:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like I'm I can't. I'm like, that's

2695
02:46:21,680 --> 02:46:26,600
Speaker 1: clear he clearly your picture is Michael Angelo's booth thing

2696
02:46:27,120 --> 02:46:31,840
Speaker 1: of of that's that's an Italian man like that can't

2697
02:46:31,959 --> 02:46:36,320
Speaker 1: possibly be the dude in these books, you know. So

2698
02:46:36,520 --> 02:46:39,640
Speaker 1: you like, I mean he was Jesus was black, Like

2699
02:46:39,720 --> 02:46:43,120
Speaker 1: I would like you just that's your only conclusion, and

2700
02:46:43,240 --> 02:46:47,520
Speaker 1: you like and these people are saying, yeah, you're right, absolutely,

2701
02:46:47,840 --> 02:46:49,600
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, well, shoot, I'll rock with y'all,

2702
02:46:49,840 --> 02:46:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's it's definitely unclear what the

2703
02:46:53,920 --> 02:46:59,600
Speaker 1: extent of Kanye's belief and stuff around black Israelite type

2704
02:46:59,640 --> 02:47:02,760
Speaker 1: stuff is. He's still has a lot of the evangelical

2705
02:47:02,840 --> 02:47:06,360
Speaker 1: type stuff going on and what he's saying, so he

2706
02:47:06,480 --> 02:47:08,320
Speaker 1: could have just picked up these types of things from

2707
02:47:08,400 --> 02:47:11,120
Speaker 1: cultural osmosis. We'll hear a little bit more about what

2708
02:47:11,240 --> 02:47:13,160
Speaker 1: he has to say about this in the next episode,

2709
02:47:13,360 --> 02:47:15,640
Speaker 1: but we're gonna have to I'm gonna have to call

2710
02:47:15,760 --> 02:47:18,959
Speaker 1: it there. That's going to be a day and join

2711
02:47:19,080 --> 02:47:23,280
Speaker 1: us after the weekend for a special special part two

2712
02:47:24,280 --> 02:47:29,560
Speaker 1: on on on the Feed talking about more of the same,

2713
02:47:29,680 --> 02:47:32,680
Speaker 1: more of the same thing, but getting slightly worse. Um.

2714
02:47:33,240 --> 02:47:35,600
Speaker 1: And it turns out when you get kicked out Twitter

2715
02:47:35,800 --> 02:47:37,560
Speaker 1: that that doesn't stop you from saying bad things. You

2716
02:47:37,640 --> 02:47:42,280
Speaker 1: just start saying that other places. Um. So anyway, yeah,

2717
02:47:42,480 --> 02:47:51,240
Speaker 1: that's that. I very impressed, Garrison. Hey, we'll be back

2718
02:47:51,320 --> 02:47:54,480
Speaker 1: Monday with more episodes every week from now until the

2719
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Speaker 1: heat death of the Universe. It could happen here is

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Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from

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Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website, cool zone media dot com,

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Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

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Speaker 1: find sources for It could happen here, updated monthly at

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Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.