Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal Hell.
Speaker 2: That for me, I'm a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 1: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 1: be happy, you want to be happy for a day.
Speaker 1: Edith Steak is that woof woof?
Speaker 3: And Dan and Tye.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the salverbal boys and girls.
Speaker 4: My name is ty Hildebrand joining me is always over
Speaker 4: there and beautiful Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker 1: Dan Rubinstein, sir, how are you? First of all, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you introducing me, but if you could for the
Speaker 1: time being moving forward. I just didn't clear this with
Speaker 1: you before, but given the nature of today's show, I
Speaker 1: figured it would be appropriate that you call me Dan Rubinstein.
Speaker 1: Presented by Gatorade Glacier Freeze. Nice, nice and nice, and
Speaker 1: it's when you are feeling the heat of the moment
Speaker 1: tie head for that Glacier Freeze. I just literally googled
Speaker 1: gatorios to find the silliest sounding one, cherry riptide rush.
Speaker 1: We're not being paid by Gatorade, and that thus ends
Speaker 1: this promotion. I thought you were going to go Goldenpalace
Speaker 1: dot com. That was a thing for a while, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Does it still exist? That's a no brainer. Well maybe
Speaker 1: in the boxing arena. That becomes tricky with nil though, right,
Speaker 1: I guess because of the gambling inventation. Sure, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: And you don't want somebody, you know, being represented by
Speaker 1: gambling interests as somebody who could affect gambling interests on
Speaker 1: the field. One of many questions I have that hopefully
Speaker 1: will be answered by our guest today. Our guest today
Speaker 1: is Ross Dellinger. We've had them on before to talk
Speaker 1: about big topics in the college football world. Ross of course,
Speaker 1: from Sports Illustrated SI dot com. For those of you
Speaker 1: wondering what are we talking about, It is nil day, Dan,
Speaker 1: It is nil.
Speaker 4: Day, July the first, twenty twenty one. What does that mean?
Speaker 4: It means, in effect that college athletes in every state
Speaker 4: should now be eligible to receive compensation for their names,
Speaker 4: their images, and their likenesses. There are some states specifically Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi,
Speaker 4: New Mexico, and Texas that do have state specific nil
Speaker 4: laws that go into effect today, But there are many
Speaker 4: other athletes and many other states that will in effect
Speaker 4: again be able to cash in on their image. Ross
Speaker 4: is going to be by here momentarily to discuss some
Speaker 4: of what it means for the sport, what kind of
Speaker 4: market is out there for some of these athletes? Stan,
Speaker 4: What are your big questions about NIL? My big question
Speaker 4: is nothing Ross can answer, but I think Ross can
Speaker 4: certainly weigh in on from an educated perspective because he's
Speaker 4: been reporting on NIL. The legislative aspects, the student athlete,
Speaker 4: that's such a funny term, the athlete aspect, the school aspect,
Speaker 4: the conference aspect. I'm curious to see, literally what is
Speaker 4: the structure of Is it going to be conference level,
Speaker 4: school level, NA level. That's still sort of a discussion
Speaker 4: point because you don't necessarily want schools instituting rules for themselves,
Speaker 4: and other schools are not. You know, the advantages and
Speaker 4: disadvantage aspect of it is fascinating to me, like what
Speaker 4: are the frameworks, what are the guidelines going to be,
Speaker 4: What are the attempts going to be to sort of
Speaker 4: not rein in anything, because I think, you know, football
Speaker 4: players in our instance, should be free to pursue things
Speaker 4: within reason the way that you and I are.
Speaker 1: I just want everybody on the saale, like everybody understands
Speaker 1: the same boundaries, not necessarily financial boundaries, but the way
Speaker 1: it's just everything operates. That to me is fascinating. And
Speaker 1: then literally just the day to day of who's negotiating
Speaker 1: the deals? Is it an agency situation? Is the school
Speaker 1: in a part of that conversation? Like what does it
Speaker 1: look like? And then it may be in the next
Speaker 1: month and maybe the next year. What could go really wrong?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And not like in a like somebody being bribed a
Speaker 1: million dollars or whatever, quote unquote bribe, but somebody being
Speaker 1: paid a million dollars to go to a certain school,
Speaker 1: that's whatever. But what happens if somebody doesn't get paid,
Speaker 1: Like who is in charge of going to Gatorade and
Speaker 1: saying you didn't pay me for my glacier freeze promo? Like,
Speaker 1: what does it look like? What is the actual nut
Speaker 1: and bolt of each athlete and their situation going to
Speaker 1: look like? It's fascinating? It truly is. And I don't
Speaker 1: mean this in like a negative way, which a lot
Speaker 1: of people do, like it's wild, wild West, Oh all
Speaker 1: is coming down. I'm excited to see how things go wrong,
Speaker 1: not because I want them to, but how they get
Speaker 1: fixed and how they get rectified and how the whole
Speaker 1: thing takes shape.
Speaker 4: We are now more than ever a society of dooms
Speaker 4: scroller Stan. You've heard the term what can go wrong?
Speaker 4: We talk about it every November, the chaos theory of
Speaker 4: the playoff, of the postseason, of conference chan in ships,
Speaker 4: of college football in general. That's why conference realignment, remember
Speaker 4: that was such a big deal because things were breaking
Speaker 4: down before our very eyes. This is a new variable.
Speaker 4: For me is exciting because it's a new variable and
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's going to upset the competitive.
Speaker 1: Balance and the sport as we know it.
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's finally going to be the
Speaker 4: thing that topples Nick Saban and Alabama or Dabbos Sweeney
Speaker 4: and Clemson. In all likelihood the answer is no. But
Speaker 4: it is a new factor that we need to somehow
Speaker 4: take into account, and hopefully Ross can help give us
Speaker 4: a better idea for what it means in the short medium,
Speaker 4: the long term. And just what he's hearing with his
Speaker 4: ear to the ground of the college football world incredibly
Speaker 4: fascinating me because we just don't get big things like
Speaker 4: this coming through the sport all that often.
Speaker 1: I want to see. I mean, this is listen, it's
Speaker 1: all brand new. What types of deals can be made
Speaker 1: not just I mean there's this sort of we're paying
Speaker 1: you to show off our drink or our exercise band
Speaker 1: or whatever on social media because you have a big
Speaker 1: following on a local commercial for you know, I saw
Speaker 1: Nebraska players have this opportunity with Runza, which is a
Speaker 1: chain of casual restaurants. I have never been to a Runza.
Speaker 1: My understanding is the famous runs of Sandwich is a
Speaker 1: not paying us is a very popular thing there, and
Speaker 1: so that's sort of a cultural element to the state,
Speaker 1: which makes sense, right, Like Nebraska football is the show
Speaker 1: in town. All due respect to whatever Creighton basketball or
Speaker 1: whatever is in second place, but that's the show in town.
Speaker 1: And so schools like that are going to have her.
Speaker 1: Athletes at schools like that are going to have opportunities
Speaker 1: that are unique. What I'm curious about is is there
Speaker 1: going to be an athlete that says, you know what,
Speaker 1: why don't you just not pay me money and give
Speaker 1: me three percent of your company? Who's going to get
Speaker 1: a vitamin water fifty cent deal? This is a sharkkank
Speaker 1: type of deal. Who's going to get the Keanu Matrix deal? Like,
Speaker 1: are there going to be savvy negotiators either the players
Speaker 1: themselves or representatives of the players themselves. Like somebody is
Speaker 1: going to come out of this with like a yep.
Speaker 1: They thought they were just advertising Strongman energy and they
Speaker 1: took one percent of the company for their efforts, and oh,
Speaker 1: Coca Cola bot Strongman for a billion dollar congratulations in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Yeah, exactly, Like who is Like what
Speaker 1: are the savvier plays going to be? Because I'm not
Speaker 1: all that worked up about like, oh, the Riches's schools
Speaker 1: are going to negotia Okay, okay, I am just curious
Speaker 1: about what players specifically football, but this is happening across
Speaker 1: many sports because we see athletes, you know whatever, gymnast divers,
Speaker 1: soccer players with social followings, which is incredible that you're
Speaker 1: able to sort of leverage your audience and make money
Speaker 1: off of them like anybody else, but football players specifically.
Speaker 1: What creative ways people are going to go about things
Speaker 1: that to me is fascinating that I can't wait for.
Speaker 4: Congratulations you now own fifty one percent of a local
Speaker 4: used car dealership?
Speaker 1: Can you go on cameo? Probably? Probably?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like what is the open Like, okay, who is the
Speaker 1: most famous football player this year? Who is the based
Speaker 1: on social following, based on just general audience awareness, who
Speaker 1: would you say is the most famous college football player
Speaker 1: playing college football in twenty twenty one this moment, I
Speaker 1: don't know is spent?
Speaker 4: I mean, Spencer Ratler is probably the favorite for the Heisman,
Speaker 4: so he's got to be up there.
Speaker 1: Spencer Ratler's probably up there. Sam Howell is probably up there.
Speaker 4: De Eric King has been in the pipeline for about
Speaker 4: fifteen years now, so he's had more than ample opportunity
Speaker 4: to build up his social following.
Speaker 1: Sure, and but I'm just talking strictly strict fame, Like
Speaker 1: who is if they were walking on the streets of
Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Seattle, Miami. Well maybe not Miami because that's
Speaker 1: technically a college town. But who is the most absolute
Speaker 1: recognizable person in college football? I mean Spencer Ratler? Maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I honestly don't know. But whoever that person is, there
Speaker 4: is now a market for their services. Again, college athletes
Speaker 4: effectively in all states starting today are able to receive
Speaker 4: compensation for their names, images, and likenesses. Dana huge shift
Speaker 4: in sport. I had the opportunity to catch up with
Speaker 4: Ross Dellinger talk more about what all this means without
Speaker 4: further ado, have a listen, don't forget to follow along
Speaker 4: on social media for all the fun little tidbits that
Speaker 4: we post out for the world to see. All right,
Speaker 4: we are joined now by Ross Dellinger from Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 4: Ross it is we're recording this on nil Eve. Many
Speaker 4: folks will be listening to this on July. The first name,
Speaker 4: image and likeness. It's a thing in terms of pure chaos. Ross,
Speaker 4: shoot me straight here. Is this a bump in the
Speaker 4: road or is this like the old school Sports Center
Speaker 4: Y two K commercial with all hell breaking loose? Where
Speaker 4: do we stand here?
Speaker 3: Well, it probably is in between there, right, it's probably
Speaker 3: not necessarily just a little bump in the road.
Speaker 5: And as we sit here on the eve of the.
Speaker 3: Nil Eve, you know, more brands, more and more brands
Speaker 3: are kind of pouring into the market, if you will,
Speaker 3: at the last minute. So I think it's going to
Speaker 3: be pretty active, and so it's more than a bump.
Speaker 5: In the road, I think.
Speaker 3: But it is going to be a little chaotic because
Speaker 3: everybody's playing by slightly different roles.
Speaker 5: You know, schools can.
Speaker 3: Create their own policy. If you're not in the state
Speaker 3: with a law, and if you're in a state with law,
Speaker 3: you got to follow the law. And the laws are
Speaker 3: all different as well, so there are only slight differences though,
Speaker 3: so but that there are still differences. So it's it's, yeah,
Speaker 3: a little bit of an uneven playing field.
Speaker 4: We are recording this shortly after news has broken that
Speaker 4: the NCAA has adopted an interim policy of sorts right
Speaker 4: that there are course a couple states that had passed
Speaker 4: their own version of legislation. The NCUBA was racing to
Speaker 4: try and put some some interim measures in place to
Speaker 4: cover those athletes who played in different states. Where do
Speaker 4: we stand now, knowing that this has passed, What do
Speaker 4: we know about the rules that they passed?
Speaker 1: Where does all that stand?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So basically what's going to happen is if you
Speaker 3: for schools in states with state laws, they'll adhere to
Speaker 3: the state law and every schoolill have their own little policy,
Speaker 3: but they'll adhere to the state statute and stuff. But
Speaker 3: for schools that are in states without a state law,
Speaker 3: they will create their own policies in they'll do it
Speaker 3: based on guiding principles that the NCAA released, And really
Speaker 3: it's a very minimum list proposal at the NCAA release there,
Speaker 3: they're really they're really letting.
Speaker 5: You know, the schools do their own thing.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: The only real guiding principles state that you know, you
Speaker 3: you can't enter into pay for play type stuff, right you. Uh,
Speaker 3: you can't pay for play, No recruiting inducements. Uh, no
Speaker 3: quid pro.
Speaker 5: Quo type thing where it's compensation for for work.
Speaker 3: And that's pretty much it. So you know, it's uh,
Speaker 3: it's up to the schools and they have to create
Speaker 3: their own rules and they can be as restrictive or
Speaker 3: pretty much as liberal as they want as long as
Speaker 3: they stay inside those guiding type principles.
Speaker 5: The NCAA, at least.
Speaker 4: We did a mini series ross where we did a
Speaker 4: breakdown of what the conference decision making looked like from
Speaker 4: the conference level with regard to COVID, and there was
Speaker 4: a sense maybe early on of camaraderie, but the closer
Speaker 4: we got to the actual start of the season that
Speaker 4: went up and spoke, everyone went their own separate ways.
Speaker 4: I get the sense from the reporting that you've done
Speaker 4: on this very particular issue about NCAA involvement that that
Speaker 4: was again a bit of the case where we kind
Speaker 4: of had warring factions here. We had some who thought
Speaker 4: the NCAA should be a little bit more heavy handed.
Speaker 4: We had others who thought that maybe they should be
Speaker 4: a lot less restrictive. Are we to imply then that
Speaker 4: we came down on the less restrictive side of the
Speaker 4: fence here with what they ultimately decided on.
Speaker 5: Yes, by by far.
Speaker 3: So Basically what you had is you had two.
Speaker 5: Proposals of the NCAA was.
Speaker 3: Examining, exploring, and one of them has been worked on
Speaker 3: for two years, and it is a more restrictive proposal,
Speaker 3: a permanent legislative proposal. With that is you would restrict
Speaker 3: athletes from a number of endorsement type deals, including using
Speaker 3: school marks and logos and things like that.
Speaker 5: So you had that, and then you had the very
Speaker 5: liberal minimalists whatever you want to call it. Guidance.
Speaker 3: It's kind of a temporary solution into a federal law
Speaker 3: can be passed by Congress.
Speaker 5: And the NCAA obviously decided to go with.
Speaker 3: The latter because the former they believed opened.
Speaker 5: Themselves up to more lawsuits, and it.
Speaker 3: Was the Alstin case and decision that really led them
Speaker 3: down that road. Allston and the language, in the opinion
Speaker 3: of Allston, open up the NCAA to more anti trust
Speaker 3: lawsuits if they adopt legislation that restricts athletes from earning
Speaker 3: an IL in any way. And so instead of passing
Speaker 3: a full length policy that they've worked on for two years,
Speaker 3: they went with this very kind of dumbed down temporary
Speaker 3: solution that only offers schools guiding principles, basically basically washing
Speaker 3: their hands of the issue and putting it in the
Speaker 3: hands of the schools.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think you tweeted out that the nc doublea's guidance
Speaker 4: in Layman's terms, was we don't want schools to get involved,
Speaker 4: but if you do, it's sort of at your own discretion.
Speaker 4: You can do kind of whatever you want, Yes.
Speaker 6: Correct, right, exactly, It's that's that's basically what they're saying is,
Speaker 6: uh is you should you should not.
Speaker 5: Get involved, but if you do get involved, well you
Speaker 5: know that it's probably going to end poorly for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's it's so funny because as college
Speaker 4: football fans, we live in this constant economy of chaos
Speaker 4: where weird situations and I don't know, doomsday scenarios sort
Speaker 4: of make the whole thing tick based on what you're
Speaker 4: seeing now from the NC double a level from some
Speaker 4: of them. Sure, what you've together over the course of time,
Speaker 4: just covering the story, what's the gray area for you?
Speaker 4: What's the area that's most ripe for disaster?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, some of these states are going
Speaker 3: to create state laws that are going to potentially be
Speaker 3: a lot more permissive for athletes than the state laws.
Speaker 3: So they'll create rules that are going to be a
Speaker 3: little different. And I can tell you a lot of
Speaker 3: it involves, which you just we've just talked about the
Speaker 3: institutional involvement, right, how involved the institutional can be, because
Speaker 3: it's kind of up to an institution to kind of
Speaker 3: put in their rules if they are going to be
Speaker 3: involved in out and so that is certainly.
Speaker 5: An issue.
Speaker 3: Another issue is as athletes wearing the school marks and
Speaker 3: logos during endorsements. You're gonna have some schools that are
Speaker 3: going to allow that with a proof from the school
Speaker 3: and others that won't allow that. So that'll be a
Speaker 3: big difference too. So there'll be these differences for sure.
Speaker 3: And then at some point I'm sure that we're going
Speaker 3: to have a student sue a school over restrictions over their.
Speaker 5: Own rules, and then we'll have to deal with that.
Speaker 4: We've already started to hear about deals being cut. Some
Speaker 4: athletes have started announcing them on Twitter. All student athletes,
Speaker 4: as you tweeted out in the state of Nebraska, are
Speaker 4: going to have offers from the Runza restaurant chain. I
Speaker 4: feel like we're going to hear all sorts of strange
Speaker 4: scenarios and pairings in the very immediate future. But do
Speaker 4: you have any sense for what that marketplace actually looks
Speaker 4: like out there?
Speaker 2: No, not really.
Speaker 5: I think what you're going to see.
Speaker 3: Is they're really top, top top. These star athletes right
Speaker 3: are going to sign some pretty big deals, pretty significant deals,
Speaker 3: are going to sign with agents. And then you're going
Speaker 3: to have those with large media followings and a lot
Speaker 3: of women athletes have. They're going to make pretty significant
Speaker 3: money too and enter some pretty big deals as well,
Speaker 3: and then you're going to have a big gap right
Speaker 3: until you get to the other players. So those star players,
Speaker 3: those with social media big social media phones, could make
Speaker 3: in the six figures, there's no doubt annually. But then
Speaker 3: there's going to be a big drop and you're going
Speaker 3: to have ninety to ninety five percent that you know
Speaker 3: are probably maybe not even going to crack the the
Speaker 3: five figure mark.
Speaker 5: Maybe I don't know, but we just don't know. And
Speaker 5: that's the thing. It's it's everything's everything's a little uncertain.
Speaker 4: Right now, What is the rule around agents, because these
Speaker 4: players obviously need to be protected if they're entering into
Speaker 4: any kind of extended agreement, maybe not just like the
Speaker 4: simple open doors thing that they would find online on
Speaker 4: their own, but if they're negotiating some sort of larger contract.
Speaker 4: How how does the NCAA now view that relationship.
Speaker 3: Well, you can have a marketing agent, but not one
Speaker 3: that agent cannot uh can that represent you in the
Speaker 3: on the pro level.
Speaker 5: There can't be any extension. The contract can't go through
Speaker 5: your college career, I don't believe.
Speaker 3: And the representative of the agent can't represent pro players,
Speaker 3: I don't believe. So you can have a marketing agent
Speaker 3: just for college, and I think you know, some big, high.
Speaker 5: Profile athletes really already have that.
Speaker 3: Now they haven't officially signed the deal, but they already
Speaker 3: have that. So so you can you can have that.
Speaker 3: But it gets tricky, you know, because some you know
Speaker 3: agents that can be agents and so you're going to
Speaker 3: have some issues probably that we'll run too down the
Speaker 3: line here with agents final question.
Speaker 4: I know it's been a busy day for you, Ross.
Speaker 4: We appreciate your time. What are the boundaries for endorsement deals?
Speaker 4: It seems like that may also be gray areas. So
Speaker 4: for example, where do things like I don't know, private
Speaker 4: plane rides or players even getting equity Let's say in
Speaker 4: a small company cashless benefits, Where do things like that
Speaker 4: come down with respect to nil?
Speaker 5: All those things would be allowed if they are not deemed.
Speaker 7: Recruiting inducements or pay for play in The schools themselves
Speaker 7: are the ones that would be in charge of determining.
Speaker 3: That, And it's kind of an ambiguous thing and it's
Speaker 3: really kind of tough to determine. So you're going to
Speaker 3: trust the schools to determine if a kid at a
Speaker 3: restaurant got a free meal because he tweeted about being
Speaker 3: at the restaurant, or did he get the free meal
Speaker 3: because he's a star quarterback. Ye, he doesn't pay for
Speaker 3: meals at hometown. So you're going to have you're going
Speaker 3: to have a lot of that. You're going to have.
Speaker 5: A lot of that.
Speaker 3: But that has to be reported to the school, and
Speaker 3: once the school gets it, if they deem it some
Speaker 3: kind of unsavory or something, I guess they could report
Speaker 3: it to the NCAA.
Speaker 5: That's going to be the process.
Speaker 4: There are going to be a lot of compliance departments
Speaker 4: on eggshells over the next couple of years to say,
Speaker 4: until they get more of a system around this. This
Speaker 4: is uh wow, talk about a culture change.
Speaker 5: Right, indeed, very much so. It's crazy.
Speaker 4: Ross Dellinger from Sports Illustrated SI dot com again, very
Speaker 4: busy day for you. We appreciate your time and we'll
Speaker 4: talk soon.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, thank you all right, And.
Speaker 4: As a special bonus to talk more about Nil, very
Speaker 4: pleased to welcome back longtime friend of the podcast, host
Speaker 4: of his own podcast, The Hand in the Dirt Podcast.
Speaker 4: Also a pizza man like our good friend Dan Rubinstein,
Speaker 4: Mister Michael Felder joins us here on the Cliverble Sir,
Speaker 4: how are.
Speaker 8: You I've good? I mean I would I'd say Dan's
Speaker 8: the pizza man. I'm the I'm a pizza boy, you
Speaker 8: know pizza.
Speaker 4: So I have to ask the question then, So Dan's
Speaker 4: little pizza operation is Valley Circle Pizza Yours This clever
Speaker 4: Girl Pizza who named their pizza operation?
Speaker 8: First, Oh, Dan, for sure he did it. And then
Speaker 8: on hand in the dirt he coerced isn't the right word,
Speaker 8: but I will say he vehemently urged me to come
Speaker 8: up with a name.
Speaker 2: And to do a thing. And clever Girls what.
Speaker 8: We all settled on, because clever Girl is a reference
Speaker 8: to Jurassic Park and that's my kid's favorite.
Speaker 1: Movie, the Velociraptor.
Speaker 2: Right, oh yeah, clever Girl.
Speaker 4: All right, So Niel, you're a former player, talk me
Speaker 4: through a player's mentality here of this legislation. So this
Speaker 4: has sort of been stirring. It's finally here as of today.
Speaker 4: Most folks are listening to this on July the first.
Speaker 4: Not everybody out there is going to get a big
Speaker 4: money deal, but a lot of people will. What is
Speaker 4: your mentality if you're a player signing on with the school.
Speaker 4: Maybe you're already with a school, but how are you
Speaker 4: approaching this?
Speaker 1: Michael?
Speaker 2: I think there's three different levels.
Speaker 8: I think one is that big level that you reference
Speaker 8: with the NCAA football game, which I don't know if
Speaker 8: people know this, but guys in the NFL they all
Speaker 8: get Madden checks and so if the game were to
Speaker 8: come back, if you're in the game, then you should
Speaker 8: get an inn C doublea check, a check for them
Speaker 8: putting you in the video game. And EA has already
Speaker 8: been willing to do that, the NCAA would not let them.
Speaker 8: So I think that's the first part. I think the
Speaker 8: second part becomes social media more so than anything, and
Speaker 8: that's a part that I don't think a lot of
Speaker 8: folks realize. I think social media is going to play
Speaker 8: such a humongous role in this via whether it's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter,
Speaker 8: what have you, where you do your sponsored post and
Speaker 8: you're able to generate revenue that way. And then I
Speaker 8: think the third part are local deals. And local has
Speaker 8: two meanings to me, because ty local can be local
Speaker 8: where you go to college, or local where you're from.
Speaker 8: If you're the first player to come from, you know,
Speaker 8: BFE somewhere, maybe that car dealer wants to do a
Speaker 8: thing with you, or maybe that restaurant wants to do
Speaker 8: a thing with you, or any of those things. And
Speaker 8: I think that's going to be a really interesting element
Speaker 8: to that. It's one of the things prior to the
Speaker 8: n cuba's ruling that I had a lot of questions
Speaker 8: with questions with with Nicole auerback from the athletic because
Speaker 8: and she brought she's the one that broke the news.
Speaker 8: But I was like, but if you do a local
Speaker 8: deal in Florida, and Florida has already legalized it, but
Speaker 8: you play football in Wisconsin. Can you do a deal
Speaker 8: in Florida and then not have it count against you
Speaker 8: in Wisconsin. So the nc DOUBLEA really took a big
Speaker 8: step forward, and you know, they big step forwards. Wrong,
Speaker 8: they got out of their own way really right.
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's interesting. So I just spoke with Ross
Speaker 4: Dellinger from side dot com, who's been also doing a
Speaker 4: ton of reporting on this, and the most interesting angle
Speaker 4: to me is that the NCAA was forced to make
Speaker 4: a choice. They knew that this legislation was to go
Speaker 4: into effect July one, and they knew that they couldn't
Speaker 4: have some schools that could do it and others that couldn't.
Speaker 4: They had to put some sort of intermeasure in place
Speaker 4: in lieu of any federal legislation. That's why they're doing this.
Speaker 4: They had a choice. The choice was either be really
Speaker 4: restrictive or be really not. Interestingly enough, they went with
Speaker 4: a really not approach, and that's incredibly fascinating on a
Speaker 4: thousand different levels, not the least of which is there
Speaker 4: is a ton of gray area with this, Michael, there's
Speaker 4: so much gray area. I asked him about private plane
Speaker 4: rides or equity in companies, all these different ways of
Speaker 4: paying a player. There really are no rules. All the
Speaker 4: rules state is that if you're a school, don't make
Speaker 4: it pay for play, don't make gets some sort of
Speaker 4: improper benefit from the recruiting standpoint, but pretty much everything
Speaker 4: else is on the table, which is bonkers and such
Speaker 4: a culture shift from where we were at just like
Speaker 4: five minutes ago. It's amazing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's I mean, think about when when, like when
Speaker 8: you guys started this show, when I started getting into
Speaker 8: the writing and then obviously transitioned to doing video television,
Speaker 8: everyone was completely against it for the most part. One
Speaker 8: of the best stories that anyone could do over the
Speaker 8: course of the year was see we caught these guys
Speaker 8: getting impermissible.
Speaker 2: Benefits, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 8: And it's shifted to you know what they should at
Speaker 8: the minimum, they should be able to profit off their names.
Speaker 8: And I'm I'm quite curious to see how this is
Speaker 8: worked out with jersey sales.
Speaker 2: Oh right, right, because.
Speaker 8: People aren't going to stop buying jerseys. But if your
Speaker 8: university is licensed through whether it's Nike or it's Adidas,
Speaker 8: or it's under Armour, but that's your jersey, do you
Speaker 8: get the feed.
Speaker 1: Off of that?
Speaker 8: Because I think that's another element that hasn't been discussed
Speaker 8: nearly enough. Everybody is so focused on the video game
Speaker 8: and then social or these like big deals for high
Speaker 8: profile players. So I'm very curious to see how that
Speaker 8: all works out. But yes, it's a massive culture shift
Speaker 8: that we've seen in the last probably ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 8: And I do think that there is there's a level
Speaker 8: of college football operates with paranoia in a big way,
Speaker 8: the idea that the other guy might get better before
Speaker 8: I get better. And I think paranoia is what drove Florida, Washington, California, Georgia,
Speaker 8: any of these states to push the envelope because they're
Speaker 8: worried about what the other guy might do. And ultimately
Speaker 8: that tip that forced the uncaa's hand. And then obviously
Speaker 8: the Supreme Court ruling didn't push nil, but what it
Speaker 8: did do was say, guess what, there's going to be
Speaker 8: a lot more bullets coming, and I hope you're ready.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.
Speaker 8: So what we're seeing is an inc double A. I
Speaker 8: don't think that the INABA is starting to crumble, but
Speaker 8: I think what we're starting to see is they're going
Speaker 8: to have to do their job. And maybe their job
Speaker 8: isn't policing kids from getting money. Maybe their job is
Speaker 8: finding ways to make sure that kids don't get taken
Speaker 8: advantage of, because, as you mentioned, the equity and the
Speaker 8: investment opportunities. I don't want to see a kid lose
Speaker 8: money getting trapped in some sort of a weird crypto scheme,
Speaker 8: right like, I don't want to see that, And that's
Speaker 8: the way you protect athletes in this current landscape.
Speaker 4: I'm still very amazed at the fact that this is
Speaker 4: all basically because of a lawsuit that originated because of
Speaker 4: a video game.
Speaker 1: And c DOUBLEA Football.
Speaker 4: The college football video game series through EA Sports could
Speaker 4: end up being one of the more consequential sports related
Speaker 4: things in our lifetime, and it was entirely for reasons
Speaker 4: that nobody saw coming. But because of the lawsuits that
Speaker 4: arose as a result of that title, public opinion has
Speaker 4: changed in a very big way in a short period
Speaker 4: of time, even to the extent that schools are now
Speaker 4: openly support of NIL. I don't know if they actually
Speaker 4: feel that they have to be on the side of this,
Speaker 4: because nobody wants to be on the wrong side of it.
Speaker 4: But how do you expect programs to lean into this
Speaker 4: and again, put on your player hat for a second,
Speaker 4: how do you think that will be received by players
Speaker 4: who maybe are recruited by some schools who have leaned
Speaker 4: more progressively into the legislation.
Speaker 8: I think leaning into it is the most important thing
Speaker 8: that a school can do, and I do think that
Speaker 8: schools are legitimately supportive of it, whether you look at
Speaker 8: Purdue or Nebraska, or Florida or Alabama, or any of
Speaker 8: these schools that already have the whole the situation, like
Speaker 8: whether it's a course situation where they have courses set
Speaker 8: up for you to understand brand management, or they have
Speaker 8: facilities set up for they have Florida has a podcast studio,
Speaker 8: They have a podcast and a music studio set up
Speaker 8: for student athletes, basically waiting for this to happen so
Speaker 8: that they can monetize what they have. I think it's
Speaker 8: I think being on that side of it is incredibly
Speaker 8: important Alabama's partnered. There are several schools that have partnered
Speaker 8: with representation firms, firms that are able to, you know,
Speaker 8: help you not just maximize brand, but let you know
Speaker 8: if this is a good deal or a bad deal.
Speaker 8: So I think leaning in is the good thing because
Speaker 8: they sit in your living room and this is me
Speaker 8: putting my player hat on time. They sit in your
Speaker 8: living room and they tell you we're gonna help you
Speaker 8: prepare for your future after football, basketball, gymnastics, whatever it is.
Speaker 8: We're going to prepare you to be an adult. We're
Speaker 8: going to prepare you to do xyz. And so this
Speaker 8: is part of them making good on that. And whether
Speaker 8: it's window dressing or lip service or it's for real,
Speaker 8: the reality is you better have at least the mechanisms
Speaker 8: in place to get the job done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, schools taking up an active part in
Speaker 4: this would be like the richest possible outcome because for
Speaker 4: so long it was the institutions arguing on behalf of
Speaker 4: the scholarship and its value to the student athlete. Now
Speaker 4: to take on a more active role, which they will
Speaker 4: have to do out of necessity, because like you said,
Speaker 4: they're all paranoid they're all trying to keep up with
Speaker 4: the jones. That to me is such a twist and
Speaker 4: such a cultural shift in the sport that I would
Speaker 4: expect in the.
Speaker 1: Very early going.
Speaker 4: We will see incredible ingenuity. We will see incredible creativity,
Speaker 4: Folks pushing the boundaries of the gray area what does
Speaker 4: or doesn't constitute any kind of improprieties as far as
Speaker 4: the NCAA sees it, we are definitely going to have
Speaker 4: some period of time here like we do in every
Speaker 4: new bursioning industry, to be honest, where nobody knows which
Speaker 4: end is up. Folks are doing whatever they damn well please,
Speaker 4: and we're going to be reading about a lot of
Speaker 4: interesting stuff.
Speaker 1: Like three years from now.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, there are going to be growing pains. There
Speaker 8: are going to be people who slide through the cracks,
Speaker 8: people who kind of get shut down for things that
Speaker 8: they probably shouldn't have been shut down for, which is
Speaker 8: going to be interesting. I think the camp industry is
Speaker 8: going to be remarkable. I'm curious to see if Nike
Speaker 8: gets back reinvested in the camp industry, to be quite honest,
Speaker 8: I know they've kind of backed away from it in
Speaker 8: the last like three years.
Speaker 1: So you're talking about like Elite eleven type of stuff.
Speaker 2: Bingo.
Speaker 8: Yeah, like those guys want to out there for free,
Speaker 8: Like I don't know for people that don't know what
Speaker 8: I've done or what I do, Like I've gone to
Speaker 8: the I went to the Elite eleven. This is one
Speaker 8: of my This is the second year I haven't gone
Speaker 8: to the Elite eleven.
Speaker 2: Third year.
Speaker 8: I haven't gone to the League eleven in the last
Speaker 8: like decade. But Deshaun Watson or.
Speaker 2: JT.
Speaker 8: Barrett, even Notre Dame Malik Malik Zaire all those like
Speaker 8: those guys go back there for free.
Speaker 2: Well, you're your guy, Trace McSorley was there.
Speaker 8: Well, they go back there for free, like they the
Speaker 8: flight is, they don't have to pay for their flight
Speaker 8: or their room and board, but they go back there
Speaker 8: for free to teach these kids and try to help
Speaker 8: these kids out. And now they've got an opportunity to,
Speaker 8: you know, make a little coin. So I wonder if
Speaker 8: that whether it's Adidas, or it's under Armour, or it's
Speaker 8: or it is Nike, or could be even Russell Athletic
Speaker 8: or Champion, who knows, but somebody else jumps into the
Speaker 8: game to get these guys back out there and actually
Speaker 8: put a little money in their pocket while they're still
Speaker 8: in school. I think that's another element of this that's
Speaker 8: pretty interesting. And then on a more local level, one
Speaker 8: of my really good friends is a girl, Jennifer Perkins.
Speaker 8: She was the North Carolina player, the Gatorade Player of
Speaker 8: the Year for soccer, and she got to just go
Speaker 8: back to her own, her own high school and do
Speaker 8: a soccer camp. That's a chance for her to put
Speaker 8: some money in their pocket that doesn't exist right now.
Speaker 8: Same thing with whether it's lacrosse, and I know that
Speaker 8: this is obviously it's a college football podcast, but I
Speaker 8: think a lot of folks don't realize that those quote
Speaker 8: unquote non revenue sports have humongous followings, and women's sports
Speaker 8: especially have huge followings because they know where the source
Speaker 8: is to get the information that they want.
Speaker 2: It's not going to be on ESPN.
Speaker 8: So they have to find it via social whether it's
Speaker 8: Facebook or it's Instagram or it's Twitter. They have to
Speaker 8: find it there and they are are rabid followers. And
Speaker 8: I think that's going to be another element that can
Speaker 8: be a real big positive. And seeing I don't know,
Speaker 8: seeing women's sports seeing Olympic sports, seeing non rev sports
Speaker 8: kind of on the come up, I think is a
Speaker 8: big part that also hasn't been considered. But it's definitely
Speaker 8: it is going to be the wild wild West. It's
Speaker 8: going to be folks finding ways, and I guess at
Speaker 8: the end of the day, the big thing for me
Speaker 8: is going to be I just I'm looking for some
Speaker 8: sort of advocacy for these kids, because I mean, look,
Speaker 8: you're you and I would have We're in our thirties, right, yep,
Speaker 8: and we work hard to not get ripped off, and
Speaker 8: I just don't want an eighteen year old to get
Speaker 8: ripped off.
Speaker 2: That's the only That's the thing I'm looking at now.
Speaker 4: You know the thing that I think about too, Nil
Speaker 4: We talk about this frequently through the lens of endorsements.
Speaker 4: You know, it's legal now for kids to go out
Speaker 4: there and sign on with to.
Speaker 1: Whoever in Nebraska.
Speaker 4: But the law here, at least per the ruling by
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court, is really broad in the sense that
Speaker 4: it's saying no, they can just make money. They can
Speaker 4: do things, not just endorsements. So half the podcast you
Speaker 4: listen to have Patreons yep. Could the quarterback at Toledo
Speaker 4: decide to do a Patreon. I believe this means he could. Yep,
Speaker 4: it's just a whole new territory.
Speaker 2: I've thought about that a lot too.
Speaker 8: Hell our guys Bud Elliott and Chip Patterson over at
Speaker 8: Cover three for CBS, they were like, ship us some merch,
Speaker 8: Well we'll do We'll do.
Speaker 2: Ads for you.
Speaker 8: Yeah, like to sell, like for people to sell, Like
Speaker 8: you can sell your own merch instead of having the
Speaker 8: school sell merch for your Heisman campaign, you can sell
Speaker 8: your own merch.
Speaker 4: Well and Graham Mertz, Graham Mertz has a trademark now Bingo.
Speaker 4: I saw bohannan basketball player from Wisconsin, is partnering with
Speaker 4: a company. So as this becomes more and more of
Speaker 4: a thing over the next few weeks, you'll undoubtedly hear
Speaker 4: about more endorsement deals and partnerships that are that are
Speaker 4: popping up.
Speaker 1: But wow, what Yeah, what a time to be alive.
Speaker 2: Man, It's amazing.
Speaker 8: It's one of those things that growing up I never
Speaker 8: thought we would see because everything was so rigid, But
Speaker 8: now people have really come around to it, and I
Speaker 8: think it's really, to be quite honest, it's and I'll
Speaker 8: wrap up here real quick, But to be quite honest,
Speaker 8: it's been really cool to be a part of that
Speaker 8: media world that's made the big shift from maybe we
Speaker 8: shouldn't be like chasing down how these kids are breaking
Speaker 8: your rules, and maybe we should be pushing against the rules.
Speaker 8: That's been maybe one of the best parts of being
Speaker 8: in this space at this time.
Speaker 4: Stick it to the man, right, stick it to the pan,
Speaker 4: all right. Michael Felder Handed the Dirt podcast, longtime friend
Speaker 4: of the Solid Verbal make sure you check him out
Speaker 4: his podcast, all of his social media feeds. Appreciate you
Speaker 4: hopping on here with me on on short notice to
Speaker 4: talk about this. I know it's a topic that you're
Speaker 4: passionate about, so yeah, we'll talk soon.
Speaker 2: Man. Sounds good, man, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: Take it easy, all right, big thanks again to Ross
Speaker 4: Dellinger from si dot com and our friend Michael Felder
Speaker 4: from The Hand in the Dirt Podcast. More to come
Speaker 4: on this moving forward, how it affects college football. A
Speaker 4: lot of this is a great unknown. We are playing
Speaker 4: without a net here to some extent. It will be
Speaker 4: very interesting to follow this story as it progresses over
Speaker 4: the course of the next few months, certainly over the
Speaker 4: course of the next couple of years to see how
Speaker 4: it evolves. But a momentous day anyway you want to
Speaker 4: look at it. What are you doing for the fourth
Speaker 4: of July? By the way, I'm not sure yet. Actually
Speaker 4: I'm trying to fire the up outside. Yeah, I'm might
Speaker 4: try to play some golf, not sure.
Speaker 1: Not sure. How about you having some friends over to grill,
Speaker 1: gonna do burgers and dogs, and I'm gonna make my
Speaker 1: my blueberry crumble, which is always delicious. I think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna really go for it on the top of the
Speaker 1: crumble above the oats, the sugary oat top layer. I
Speaker 1: think I'm going to go for it with some berries
Speaker 1: and maybe like a lemon icing a design of some kind.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm feeling creative this here. That's great. I
Speaker 1: wanted to mention again.
Speaker 4: We received a ton of great feedback on my suggestion
Speaker 4: about being an omelet chef. Okay, everybody, it was fantastic.
Speaker 4: Nobody was in yours. I will accept your apology whenever
Speaker 4: you are ready. So you are saying that you will
Speaker 4: be a full time This is a discussion. If you
Speaker 4: didn't listen, and bless you if you didn't, If we
Speaker 4: had to take a full time job that only involved
Speaker 4: working on our feet with our hands, nothing digital. You
Speaker 4: think that just a dedicated omelet professional is a career
Speaker 4: that you could you could find somewhere. Yes, whereas I
Speaker 4: think in nicer hotels, maybe they're doing breakfast from what
Speaker 4: time to what time's six to ten eleven.
Speaker 1: Listen, I just think you. I think it has to
Speaker 1: be omelets. And that's all. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I don't know how you choose to run your quote
Speaker 4: unquote nicer hotel. Yeah, but I'm catering to a different
Speaker 4: social class, Dan. These are premium omelets that I bring
Speaker 4: to the equation that I offer as part of my
Speaker 4: specialty chef services. Yeah, and this is how I choose
Speaker 4: to spend.
Speaker 1: My carrier on a briefcase with your pan.
Speaker 4: That's exactly, that's exactly right. Like a pool queue when
Speaker 4: you take it to the bar, I have my pants
Speaker 4: with me, a massuse with their foldable table, exactly. It
Speaker 4: all goes in the back of the suv. Here's the
Speaker 4: way this thing works. You said a six months sabbatical.
Speaker 4: We never said it had to be a real omelet chef.
Speaker 4: Is where I'm going with this.
Speaker 1: Do you know what now that you say it out loud,
Speaker 1: I still don't think that you could get this job
Speaker 1: in a restaurant or hotel without also doing something else.
Speaker 1: But I think now that people are you know, you
Speaker 1: can get like somebody to come out to your home
Speaker 1: and with like a pizza oven, right and do a catering.
Speaker 1: They're making pizza in their backyard, or they're doing you know,
Speaker 1: they're bringing a smoke er over and smoking like that.
Speaker 1: Maybe you have a niche where you bring your own
Speaker 1: like portable range whatever. You know, your your electric stovetop situation,
Speaker 1: you have your own table. I wonder though, how many
Speaker 1: burners you could have going at once? Right if you
Speaker 1: are taking requests, like you could be making multiple pizzas
Speaker 1: at once. With the right size oven, you could be
Speaker 1: smoking multiple briskets or ribs or whatever. But it's a
Speaker 1: delicate dance the omelet game. Right, you're checking the how
Speaker 1: cooked each side is, you're filling at the same time
Speaker 1: you're folding, you're turning. How many pans could you imagine
Speaker 1: you could you manage excuse me, how many burners at once?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I could probably do five at once. Get out. I think,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about you're a crazy person. You
Speaker 1: could manage five omelets at various stages of cook at once.
Speaker 1: I could, I could, I could do that. I think
Speaker 1: we're going to need to film this somehow.
Speaker 4: I could definitely do that because you've got one well,
Speaker 4: you've got one pan of the toppings.
Speaker 1: You're cooking up the toppings in one pan. And you
Speaker 1: can pre cook that, couldn't you?
Speaker 4: You could pre cook that too, sure, But if you're
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm advertising a level of freshness.
Speaker 1: I think that really makes it a premium breakfast experience.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: So I envisioned one pan that has one big pan
Speaker 4: that has all my toppings in it. You know, presumably
Speaker 4: they're not things that you can't mix together. They're all
Speaker 4: going the same place anyway.
Speaker 1: And are you solo or do you have an assistant?
Speaker 1: I hadn't considered the assistant angle. Well, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a business that you're starting, right, You're it might
Speaker 1: have to be two people just to prove a point.
Speaker 1: I don't know. If you were to set up a stream,
Speaker 1: a video stream of you and your kitchen, and people
Speaker 1: were to give you omelet requests on the fly, one
Speaker 1: after the other, live on the stream. You think you
Speaker 1: could pull off four at a time. Yeah, I assume
Speaker 1: you have four burners on your range. I could I
Speaker 1: could do that. Yeah, do you have enough pans to
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 4: I do not enough pants to do it. Okay, I
Speaker 4: do not enough pans. That could be an issue, but yeah.
Speaker 1: I think you were telling me one you could take
Speaker 1: live requests and when the first of the four is finished,
Speaker 1: you're plating that and you're making a new one as
Speaker 1: the three others are cooking.
Speaker 4: This is this is turning into an I love lucy
Speaker 4: cookies on the conveyor belts.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you're You're claiming five and now
Speaker 1: you're doubting four.
Speaker 4: I'm claiming five pans, not five omelets. I'm claiming one
Speaker 4: pan with toppings four omelets simultaneous.
Speaker 1: Oh are you saying somebody else is constructing and you
Speaker 1: are forming. No, No, I'm making.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying there's five pans total, one pan of
Speaker 4: topping and four pans of eggs.
Speaker 1: I would do it for you. I just don't want
Speaker 1: to waste the eggs. Well, I mean, have people over
Speaker 1: so they can eat your omelets. I just think it's
Speaker 1: you're playing a very dangerous game of whack the mole here,
Speaker 1: all right, Well, write in soliverable at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Let us know your thoughts on this and other controversial
Speaker 1: matters related to you. You've never worked in food service,
Speaker 1: or have you?
Speaker 2: I have not?
Speaker 1: No, it's it can get harrowing and stressful, but it
Speaker 1: also trains you right to work under stress and directs.
Speaker 1: So okay, I believe I could do it, Dan, I
Speaker 1: believe I could do it. That's an unbelievable claim, and
Speaker 1: I love that you've made it.
Speaker 4: For that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein,
Speaker 4: for myself, Ty Hildebrand, thank you so much for downloading,
Speaker 4: for listening, for supporting the show.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, wherever your Fourth of July holiday takes you,
Speaker 4: please stay safe, stay healthy, and as always, stay solid.
Speaker 2: Hace