WEBVTT - Happy NIL Day! 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.240 Welcome to the solid verbal Hell. 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.119 That for me, I'm a man, I'm forty. 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.119 I've heard so many players say, well, I want to 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.080 be happy, you want to be happy for a day. 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.440 Edith Steak is that woof woof? 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.080 And Dan and Tye. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.040 Welcome back to the salverbal boys and girls. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.480 My name is ty Hildebrand joining me is always over 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.520 there and beautiful Chicago, Illinois. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.639 Dan Rubinstein, sir, how are you? First of all, I 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.199 appreciate you introducing me, but if you could for the 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:36.159 time being moving forward. I just didn't clear this with 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.239 you before, but given the nature of today's show, I 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:43.360 figured it would be appropriate that you call me Dan Rubinstein. 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.479 Presented by Gatorade Glacier Freeze. Nice, nice and nice, and 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.960 it's when you are feeling the heat of the moment 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:55.600 tie head for that Glacier Freeze. I just literally googled 0:00:55.800 --> 0:01:01.080 gatorios to find the silliest sounding one, cherry riptide rush. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.560 We're not being paid by Gatorade, and that thus ends 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.959 this promotion. I thought you were going to go Goldenpalace 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.319 dot com. That was a thing for a while, wasn't it. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.319 Does it still exist? That's a no brainer. Well maybe 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:17.119 in the boxing arena. That becomes tricky with nil though, right, 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.080 I guess because of the gambling inventation. Sure, yeah, of course. 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.520 And you don't want somebody, you know, being represented by 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.160 gambling interests as somebody who could affect gambling interests on 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.400 the field. One of many questions I have that hopefully 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.440 will be answered by our guest today. Our guest today 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.880 is Ross Dellinger. We've had them on before to talk 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.959 about big topics in the college football world. Ross of course, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.920 from Sports Illustrated SI dot com. For those of you 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.280 wondering what are we talking about, It is nil day, Dan, 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:50.640 It is nil. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.480 Day, July the first, twenty twenty one. What does that mean? 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.440 It means, in effect that college athletes in every state 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.200 should now be eligible to receive compensation for their names, 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:10.440 their images, and their likenesses. There are some states specifically Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.040 New Mexico, and Texas that do have state specific nil 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.119 laws that go into effect today, But there are many 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.680 other athletes and many other states that will in effect 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.840 again be able to cash in on their image. Ross 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.640 is going to be by here momentarily to discuss some 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:30.800 of what it means for the sport, what kind of 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.280 market is out there for some of these athletes? Stan, 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.800 What are your big questions about NIL? My big question 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.400 is nothing Ross can answer, but I think Ross can 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.119 certainly weigh in on from an educated perspective because he's 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.720 been reporting on NIL. The legislative aspects, the student athlete, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:52.320 that's such a funny term, the athlete aspect, the school aspect, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.120 the conference aspect. I'm curious to see, literally what is 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.360 the structure of Is it going to be conference level, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.280 school level, NA level. That's still sort of a discussion 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:09.480 point because you don't necessarily want schools instituting rules for themselves, 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.120 and other schools are not. You know, the advantages and 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.560 disadvantage aspect of it is fascinating to me, like what 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.520 are the frameworks, what are the guidelines going to be, 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.200 What are the attempts going to be to sort of 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:25.520 not rein in anything, because I think, you know, football 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.440 players in our instance, should be free to pursue things 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:30.720 within reason the way that you and I are. 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.520 I just want everybody on the saale, like everybody understands 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:40.320 the same boundaries, not necessarily financial boundaries, but the way 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.240 it's just everything operates. That to me is fascinating. And 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:48.040 then literally just the day to day of who's negotiating 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.840 the deals? Is it an agency situation? Is the school 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.640 in a part of that conversation? Like what does it 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.640 look like? And then it may be in the next 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.760 month and maybe the next year. What could go really wrong? 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:02.640 Yeah? 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.720 And not like in a like somebody being bribed a 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.520 million dollars or whatever, quote unquote bribe, but somebody being 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.440 paid a million dollars to go to a certain school, 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:16.200 that's whatever. But what happens if somebody doesn't get paid, 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.400 Like who is in charge of going to Gatorade and 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.880 saying you didn't pay me for my glacier freeze promo? Like, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.320 what does it look like? What is the actual nut 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:28.080 and bolt of each athlete and their situation going to 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.880 look like? It's fascinating? It truly is. And I don't 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.320 mean this in like a negative way, which a lot 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.200 of people do, like it's wild, wild West, Oh all 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.479 is coming down. I'm excited to see how things go wrong, 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.680 not because I want them to, but how they get 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:45.679 fixed and how they get rectified and how the whole 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:46.800 thing takes shape. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.239 We are now more than ever a society of dooms 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.320 scroller Stan. You've heard the term what can go wrong? 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.400 We talk about it every November, the chaos theory of 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.440 the playoff, of the postseason, of conference chan in ships, 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.080 of college football in general. That's why conference realignment, remember 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.039 that was such a big deal because things were breaking 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.839 down before our very eyes. This is a new variable. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.520 For me is exciting because it's a new variable and 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.280 I don't know if it's going to upset the competitive. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.160 Balance and the sport as we know it. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.000 I don't know if it's finally going to be the 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.280 thing that topples Nick Saban and Alabama or Dabbos Sweeney 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.880 and Clemson. In all likelihood the answer is no. But 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.839 it is a new factor that we need to somehow 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.279 take into account, and hopefully Ross can help give us 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.799 a better idea for what it means in the short medium, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.120 the long term. And just what he's hearing with his 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.600 ear to the ground of the college football world incredibly 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.640 fascinating me because we just don't get big things like 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.359 this coming through the sport all that often. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.159 I want to see. I mean, this is listen, it's 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.240 all brand new. What types of deals can be made 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.679 not just I mean there's this sort of we're paying 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.240 you to show off our drink or our exercise band 0:05:58.320 --> 0:05:59.840 or whatever on social media because you have a big 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.279 following on a local commercial for you know, I saw 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.840 Nebraska players have this opportunity with Runza, which is a 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.560 chain of casual restaurants. I have never been to a Runza. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.400 My understanding is the famous runs of Sandwich is a 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.440 not paying us is a very popular thing there, and 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.799 so that's sort of a cultural element to the state, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.400 which makes sense, right, Like Nebraska football is the show 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.400 in town. All due respect to whatever Creighton basketball or 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.520 whatever is in second place, but that's the show in town. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.400 And so schools like that are going to have her. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.440 Athletes at schools like that are going to have opportunities 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:35.000 that are unique. What I'm curious about is is there 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.520 going to be an athlete that says, you know what, 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.120 why don't you just not pay me money and give 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.080 me three percent of your company? Who's going to get 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.560 a vitamin water fifty cent deal? This is a sharkkank 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.839 type of deal. Who's going to get the Keanu Matrix deal? Like, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:53.599 are there going to be savvy negotiators either the players 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.240 themselves or representatives of the players themselves. Like somebody is 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.520 going to come out of this with like a yep. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:04.200 They thought they were just advertising Strongman energy and they 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:09.560 took one percent of the company for their efforts, and oh, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.920 Coca Cola bot Strongman for a billion dollar congratulations in 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.920 twenty twenty six. Yeah, exactly, Like who is Like what 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.840 are the savvier plays going to be? Because I'm not 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.480 all that worked up about like, oh, the Riches's schools 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:27.320 are going to negotia Okay, okay, I am just curious 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.960 about what players specifically football, but this is happening across 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.520 many sports because we see athletes, you know whatever, gymnast divers, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.880 soccer players with social followings, which is incredible that you're 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.040 able to sort of leverage your audience and make money 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.440 off of them like anybody else, but football players specifically. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.679 What creative ways people are going to go about things 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.520 that to me is fascinating that I can't wait for. 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.920 Congratulations you now own fifty one percent of a local 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.360 used car dealership? 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.480 Can you go on cameo? Probably? Probably? 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:04.880 Yeah? 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.600 Like what is the open Like, okay, who is the 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.440 most famous football player this year? Who is the based 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.120 on social following, based on just general audience awareness, who 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.480 would you say is the most famous college football player 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.520 playing college football in twenty twenty one this moment, I 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:23.840 don't know is spent? 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.760 I mean, Spencer Ratler is probably the favorite for the Heisman, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:27.840 so he's got to be up there. 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:34.160 Spencer Ratler's probably up there. Sam Howell is probably up there. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.439 De Eric King has been in the pipeline for about 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.560 fifteen years now, so he's had more than ample opportunity 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:41.880 to build up his social following. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.920 Sure, and but I'm just talking strictly strict fame, Like 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.719 who is if they were walking on the streets of 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.920 Saint Louis, Seattle, Miami. Well maybe not Miami because that's 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.679 technically a college town. But who is the most absolute 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.160 recognizable person in college football? I mean Spencer Ratler? Maybe 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:02.680 I don't know. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.760 I honestly don't know. But whoever that person is, there 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:09.199 is now a market for their services. Again, college athletes 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:13.320 effectively in all states starting today are able to receive 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:19.680 compensation for their names, images, and likenesses. Dana huge shift 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.840 in sport. I had the opportunity to catch up with 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:27.319 Ross Dellinger talk more about what all this means without 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.960 further ado, have a listen, don't forget to follow along 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.400 on social media for all the fun little tidbits that 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.959 we post out for the world to see. All right, 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.400 we are joined now by Ross Dellinger from Sports Illustrated. 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.640 Ross it is we're recording this on nil Eve. Many 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.880 folks will be listening to this on July. The first name, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:53.400 image and likeness. It's a thing in terms of pure chaos. Ross, 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.680 shoot me straight here. Is this a bump in the 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.840 road or is this like the old school Sports Center 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.720 Y two K commercial with all hell breaking loose? Where 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:05.600 do we stand here? 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.840 Well, it probably is in between there, right, it's probably 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.199 not necessarily just a little bump in the road. 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.600 And as we sit here on the eve of the. 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.720 Nil Eve, you know, more brands, more and more brands 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:26.240 are kind of pouring into the market, if you will, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.760 at the last minute. So I think it's going to 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:33.280 be pretty active, and so it's more than a bump. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:33.960 In the road, I think. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.920 But it is going to be a little chaotic because 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.000 everybody's playing by slightly different roles. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:41.840 You know, schools can. 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.360 Create their own policy. If you're not in the state 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.360 with a law, and if you're in a state with law, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:47.800 you got to follow the law. And the laws are 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.040 all different as well, so there are only slight differences though, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.480 so but that there are still differences. So it's it's, yeah, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.240 a little bit of an uneven playing field. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:03.520 We are recording this shortly after news has broken that 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:08.640 the NCAA has adopted an interim policy of sorts right 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.280 that there are course a couple states that had passed 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:16.280 their own version of legislation. The NCUBA was racing to 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.400 try and put some some interim measures in place to 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.080 cover those athletes who played in different states. Where do 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.520 we stand now, knowing that this has passed, What do 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.520 we know about the rules that they passed? 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:29.760 Where does all that stand? 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:30.920 Yeah? 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.360 Yeah, So basically what's going to happen is if you 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.199 for schools in states with state laws, they'll adhere to 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.680 the state law and every schoolill have their own little policy, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.560 but they'll adhere to the state statute and stuff. But 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:48.240 for schools that are in states without a state law, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.640 they will create their own policies in they'll do it 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.480 based on guiding principles that the NCAA released, And really 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:02.880 it's a very minimum list proposal at the NCAA release there, 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.280 they're really they're really letting. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.800 You know, the schools do their own thing. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:11.520 Uh. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:16.360 The only real guiding principles state that you know, you 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.720 you can't enter into pay for play type stuff, right you. Uh, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.440 you can't pay for play, No recruiting inducements. Uh, no 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:26.240 quid pro. 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.800 Quo type thing where it's compensation for for work. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:35.080 And that's pretty much it. So you know, it's uh, 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.760 it's up to the schools and they have to create 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.920 their own rules and they can be as restrictive or 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.760 pretty much as liberal as they want as long as 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.200 they stay inside those guiding type principles. 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:47.320 The NCAA, at least. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.440 We did a mini series ross where we did a 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.199 breakdown of what the conference decision making looked like from 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.480 the conference level with regard to COVID, and there was 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.880 a sense maybe early on of camaraderie, but the closer 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:04.920 we got to the actual start of the season that 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.400 went up and spoke, everyone went their own separate ways. 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.200 I get the sense from the reporting that you've done 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.640 on this very particular issue about NCAA involvement that that 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.240 was again a bit of the case where we kind 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.760 of had warring factions here. We had some who thought 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.640 the NCAA should be a little bit more heavy handed. 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.840 We had others who thought that maybe they should be 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.200 a lot less restrictive. Are we to imply then that 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.080 we came down on the less restrictive side of the 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.640 fence here with what they ultimately decided on. 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.560 Yes, by by far. 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.560 So Basically what you had is you had two. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.280 Proposals of the NCAA was. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.360 Examining, exploring, and one of them has been worked on 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.240 for two years, and it is a more restrictive proposal, 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:01.920 a permanent legislative proposal. With that is you would restrict 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.840 athletes from a number of endorsement type deals, including using 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.120 school marks and logos and things like that. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.760 So you had that, and then you had the very 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.199 liberal minimalists whatever you want to call it. Guidance. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.560 It's kind of a temporary solution into a federal law 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.640 can be passed by Congress. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.520 And the NCAA obviously decided to go with. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.920 The latter because the former they believed opened. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.800 Themselves up to more lawsuits, and it. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.880 Was the Alstin case and decision that really led them 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.440 down that road. Allston and the language, in the opinion 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:41.360 of Allston, open up the NCAA to more anti trust 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:48.120 lawsuits if they adopt legislation that restricts athletes from earning 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.200 an IL in any way. And so instead of passing 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.520 a full length policy that they've worked on for two years, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.320 they went with this very kind of dumbed down temporary 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.800 solution that only offers schools guiding principles, basically basically washing 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.840 their hands of the issue and putting it in the 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:07.880 hands of the schools. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:08.320 Yeah. 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.760 I think you tweeted out that the nc doublea's guidance 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.040 in Layman's terms, was we don't want schools to get involved, 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.120 but if you do, it's sort of at your own discretion. 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.440 You can do kind of whatever you want, Yes. 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:28.000 Correct, right, exactly, It's that's that's basically what they're saying is, 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.640 uh is you should you should not. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.440 Get involved, but if you do get involved, well you 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.040 know that it's probably going to end poorly for you. 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.880 Yeah, I mean, it's it's so funny because as college 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.120 football fans, we live in this constant economy of chaos 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:52.000 where weird situations and I don't know, doomsday scenarios sort 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.160 of make the whole thing tick based on what you're 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.080 seeing now from the NC double a level from some 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.760 of them. Sure, what you've together over the course of time, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.680 just covering the story, what's the gray area for you? 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.680 What's the area that's most ripe for disaster? 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.400 Yeah, well, you know, some of these states are going 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.440 to create state laws that are going to potentially be 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.760 a lot more permissive for athletes than the state laws. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.040 So they'll create rules that are going to be a 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.240 little different. And I can tell you a lot of 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.560 it involves, which you just we've just talked about the 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:35.320 institutional involvement, right, how involved the institutional can be, because 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:41.360 it's kind of up to an institution to kind of 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.040 put in their rules if they are going to be 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.840 involved in out and so that is certainly. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:48.760 An issue. 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:54.720 Another issue is as athletes wearing the school marks and 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.000 logos during endorsements. You're gonna have some schools that are 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.800 going to allow that with a proof from the school 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.760 and others that won't allow that. So that'll be a 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.560 big difference too. So there'll be these differences for sure. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.560 And then at some point I'm sure that we're going 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.440 to have a student sue a school over restrictions over their. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.919 Own rules, and then we'll have to deal with that. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.879 We've already started to hear about deals being cut. Some 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:24.120 athletes have started announcing them on Twitter. All student athletes, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.320 as you tweeted out in the state of Nebraska, are 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:30.399 going to have offers from the Runza restaurant chain. I 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.359 feel like we're going to hear all sorts of strange 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.840 scenarios and pairings in the very immediate future. But do 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.640 you have any sense for what that marketplace actually looks 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:40.280 like out there? 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.439 No, not really. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.080 I think what you're going to see. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.360 Is they're really top, top top. These star athletes right 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.080 are going to sign some pretty big deals, pretty significant deals, 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.919 are going to sign with agents. And then you're going 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.640 to have those with large media followings and a lot 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.840 of women athletes have. They're going to make pretty significant 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.200 money too and enter some pretty big deals as well, 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:07.920 and then you're going to have a big gap right 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:14.400 until you get to the other players. So those star players, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.439 those with social media big social media phones, could make 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.159 in the six figures, there's no doubt annually. But then 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.040 there's going to be a big drop and you're going 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.040 to have ninety to ninety five percent that you know 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.920 are probably maybe not even going to crack the the 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:31.520 five figure mark. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.000 Maybe I don't know, but we just don't know. And 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.480 that's the thing. It's it's everything's everything's a little uncertain. 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.359 Right now, What is the rule around agents, because these 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.560 players obviously need to be protected if they're entering into 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.600 any kind of extended agreement, maybe not just like the 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.439 simple open doors thing that they would find online on 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.000 their own, but if they're negotiating some sort of larger contract. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.720 How how does the NCAA now view that relationship. 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.439 Well, you can have a marketing agent, but not one 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.280 that agent cannot uh can that represent you in the 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:06.480 on the pro level. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.360 There can't be any extension. The contract can't go through 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:11.960 your college career, I don't believe. 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.760 And the representative of the agent can't represent pro players, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.840 I don't believe. So you can have a marketing agent 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.520 just for college, and I think you know, some big, high. 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.520 Profile athletes really already have that. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.399 Now they haven't officially signed the deal, but they already 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.879 have that. So so you can you can have that. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.439 But it gets tricky, you know, because some you know 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.119 agents that can be agents and so you're going to 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.040 have some issues probably that we'll run too down the 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.480 line here with agents final question. 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.359 I know it's been a busy day for you, Ross. 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:52.000 We appreciate your time. What are the boundaries for endorsement deals? 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.439 It seems like that may also be gray areas. So 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.480 for example, where do things like I don't know, private 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:03.000 plane rides or players even getting equity Let's say in 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.720 a small company cashless benefits, Where do things like that 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.800 come down with respect to nil? 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:16.560 All those things would be allowed if they are not deemed. 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:22.920 Recruiting inducements or pay for play in The schools themselves 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.879 are the ones that would be in charge of determining. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.919 That, And it's kind of an ambiguous thing and it's 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.840 really kind of tough to determine. So you're going to 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.040 trust the schools to determine if a kid at a 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.600 restaurant got a free meal because he tweeted about being 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.640 at the restaurant, or did he get the free meal 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.000 because he's a star quarterback. Ye, he doesn't pay for 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.439 meals at hometown. So you're going to have you're going 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.320 to have a lot of that. You're going to have. 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:51.639 A lot of that. 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:53.439 But that has to be reported to the school, and 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.120 once the school gets it, if they deem it some 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.359 kind of unsavory or something, I guess they could report 0:20:59.359 --> 0:20:59.960 it to the NCAA. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:01.560 That's going to be the process. 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.400 There are going to be a lot of compliance departments 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.240 on eggshells over the next couple of years to say, 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.560 until they get more of a system around this. This 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.480 is uh wow, talk about a culture change. 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:17.920 Right, indeed, very much so. It's crazy. 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.760 Ross Dellinger from Sports Illustrated SI dot com again, very 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.720 busy day for you. We appreciate your time and we'll 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:25.240 talk soon. 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.440 Okay, okay, thank you all right, And. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:33.480 As a special bonus to talk more about Nil, very 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.640 pleased to welcome back longtime friend of the podcast, host 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.560 of his own podcast, The Hand in the Dirt Podcast. 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:46.000 Also a pizza man like our good friend Dan Rubinstein, 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.840 Mister Michael Felder joins us here on the Cliverble Sir, 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:49.200 how are. 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.800 You I've good? I mean I would I'd say Dan's 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.800 the pizza man. I'm the I'm a pizza boy, you 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:55.760 know pizza. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:58.120 So I have to ask the question then, So Dan's 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.840 little pizza operation is Valley Circle Pizza Yours This clever 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.840 Girl Pizza who named their pizza operation? 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.040 First, Oh, Dan, for sure he did it. And then 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:13.920