1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Where Were You In ninety two is a production of 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. A special note this episode contains themes 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: of physical and sexual abuse. It may not be suitable 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: for all listeners. She looked like someone who was growing 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: into battle. Never has said looked as much like you 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: know what I imagined Joan of Arc looking like you 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: know She knew exactly what she intended to do. Did 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: she know what the ramifications were? No, but she definitely 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: knew what she wanted to do the minute she started 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: singing that song. Welcome to Where Are You In nine two, 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: a podcast in which I Your host Jason Lautier look 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: back at the major hits, one hit wonders, shocking news stories, 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: and irresistible scandals that shaped what might be the wildest, 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: most eclectic, most controversial twelve months of music ever. This week, 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: after scoring a number one smashed with her version of 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: the Prince song Nothing Compares to You, Irish singer songwriter 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: Shanid O'Connor became an international sensation. While her look a 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: shaved head and dazzling dough like eyes was arresting, her 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: gale force vocals were next level. A songbird and a 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: siren she could pivot from a whisper to a screen 21 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: in seconds. But if her stars seemed to rise overnight, 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: it fell just as quickly. In October of less than 23 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: two weeks after releasing her new album, Am I Not 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: Your Girl? O'Connor concluded her performance on Saturday Night Live 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: by ripping up a photo of Pope John Paul the 26 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Second to protest the Catholic Church concealing acts of child abuse. 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: The incident sparked rabid backlash, with radio stations refusing to 28 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: play her music and audiences boycotting her one single gesture 29 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: torpedoed her career. In this episode, we examine the events 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: leading up to that faithful evening, it's crushing consequences, honors, 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: complicated relationship with fame, and how many of her critics 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: realized years later that she was right all along. Plus 33 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: director Catherine Ferguson joins us to discuss her award winning 34 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: two thousand documentary Nothing Compares, which traces the singer's life, 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: exiled and legacy. When I look back at the artists 36 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: who have been instrumental in shaping who I am today, 37 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: so many of them confused me. When I first heard 38 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: or saw them. I found them weird and hard to 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: pin down and therefore off putting. They made me uncomfortable, 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: sometimes even scared me. They were disruptors of gender or genre, 41 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: and often both, blurring the lines between male and female 42 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: pop and performance art. Nina Simone, David Bowie, Kate Bush, 43 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: Prince York, Anny Shade O'Connor. I can't tell you where 44 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: I was when I first heard Snad O'Connor. I was 45 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: too young to really absorb my surroundings for sound and 46 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: time and place to coalesce into a major musical moment. 47 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: But I remember that voice. It had nothing to do 48 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: with my being American and her being Irish. I had 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: no idea where she come from. I remember that voice 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: because it yanked me by the collar and pulled me 51 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone. It was big and beautiful, 52 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: but also strange and intimidating, a little chilling. Music journalist 53 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: in Critic and Powers had a similar reaction when hearing 54 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: O'Connor for the first time in the nineteen eighties, when 55 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: Troy a highlight from the singers debut album The Lion 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: the Cobra suddenly burst through the speakers in her room. 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: Her encounter with that voice made her an instant fan. 58 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: I will never forget lying in bed in my San 59 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: Francisco apartment listening to k u s F, the local 60 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: college radio station, and the song Troy came on, and 61 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the story in that song is so compelling, 62 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: but the voice, just the voice of the power, the rage, 63 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: the vulnerability, the purity and the dirt in it, all 64 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: of that, it just slew me to my soul and 65 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: I from that moment, my undivided love for Naid was born. 66 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: Powers was a young Irish American woman who had been 67 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: raised to be aware of her heritage. She had been 68 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,119 Speaker 1: served a lot of popular culture about Ireland and about 69 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: the troubles the thirty year conflict in Northern Ireland between 70 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: Protestant Unionists or Loyalists, who wanted it to remain part 71 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: of the United Kingdom and Roman Catholic nationalists or Republicans, 72 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: who wanted it to become part of the Republic of Ireland. 73 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: Powers had movies, TV and the band You Too representing 74 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: her past in present, but O'Connor folded in Irish folk 75 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: music and classic shadows folk singing that truly resonated with 76 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: her across the Atlantic. Director Katherine Ferguson, who was born 77 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: in Belfast, Northern Ireland's capital, was having a similar response 78 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: to the singer. She thanks her father for exposing her 79 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: to O'Connor's music. There was just nothing like her. She's 80 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: like an alien from water space and see the things 81 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: so thrilling really to me at that point she was 82 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: put in front of me and this incredible example of um, 83 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, this incredible iconic character to admire. So yeah, 84 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: it all BEGANE then I was way too young to 85 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: be cool enough to know O'Connor's acclaimed first album, The 86 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: Lion of the Cobra. But for a certain period, hearing 87 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: your cover of Princes Nothing Compares to You on your 88 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: radio was a given, as predictable as the sun coming 89 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: up each day and going down at the end of it, 90 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: which is what the song The Ultimate Breakup Anthem sounds like. 91 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: It is somehow both bracing, like the first breath you 92 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: take stepping out into the morning, and definitive, like the 93 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: brightness vanishing and the darkness of evening descending. It's most 94 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: memorable line is its most quietly devastating. All the flowers 95 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: that you planted Mama in the backyard all died when 96 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: you went away. That's it, so succinct yet so rich 97 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: and vivid. You hear it, and you're watching those flowers wilt. 98 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: But it's more than that. You're there with a split 99 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: screen in front of you, on screen one those flowers 100 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: dying under the winter frost on screen too. O'Connor's lover 101 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: crossing the threshold, last box in their arms, walking away 102 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: from her and her mother and her family and everything 103 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: they've established a foundation crumling. Yes, we must credit the 104 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: Purple One with writing that line, but let's also be 105 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: real here. O'Connor gave it depth. She sings about those 106 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: flowers and you believe her. Have you heard Prince's version 107 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: of nothing Compares to You? He wrote it for his 108 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: side project The Family, and it appeared on their eponymous 109 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: debut album, It's Good, better than Good. It certainly does 110 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: the job. But this song belongs to a nade, and 111 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: it's because of that voice, which conveys years of hurt, confusion, 112 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: longing and hope and does so like it's effortless, says Ferguson. 113 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: But her voice seem to have such a global appeal 114 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: that it's seem to break through where others happens. And 115 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: I think that went a very long way. Fortunate it. 116 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: I think really her talent is so startling that it 117 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: just went through, just pushed three. O'Connor's rousing interpretation if 118 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: Nothing Compares to You made her a star, a huge 119 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: worldwide star. The track sword to number one in the UK, Ireland, Australia, Canada, Germany, Mexico, 120 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, and the US, where it stayed 121 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: at the top of the Billboard Hot one hundred for 122 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: four weeks. On the second week of its rain at 123 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: number one, I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got, 124 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: the album it appeared on, began it's six week run 125 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: at number one on the Billboard two hundred. Billboard would 126 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: name Nothing Compares to You, the number one world single. 127 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: At the end of the song was everywhere, and O'Connor's 128 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: angelic face and her pained expression, and its music video 129 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: was all over MTV, where Nothing Compares You became a 130 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: staple soon after its release. It's Easy to See why. 131 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: Directed by John Maybury, it features the singer walking through 132 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: paris Is Park to Saint Clude on a frigid day. 133 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: Dressed in a cloak. She looks monastic as she contemplates 134 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: her sorrow own regret. But it's the video's close up 135 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: shots of O'Connor and which tears streamed down her cheeks, 136 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: that made it legendary, says Anne powers. She gazes outward 137 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: directly into the eye of the viewer and her all 138 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: of the qualities that we associate with she and her beauty, 139 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: her vulnerability, her fierceness are all in that gaze and 140 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: in that vocal performance when she looks at you. In 141 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: that video, you absorbed both her strength and her defenselessness 142 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: in the wake of her heartbreak. Her exposing that heartbreak 143 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: and defenselessness, placing it in sharp relief against a stark 144 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: black backdrop, is why she comes across so strong, so resilient, 145 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: And this is largely because the tears she sheds are 146 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: real tears. You see Princess lying about the narrator's mother's flowers. 147 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: Dying took on a new meaning for O'Connor when she 148 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: shot the video, For nothing compares to you delivering it. 149 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: She could not help but think of her own mother, 150 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: who had died in a car accident in a few 151 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: years before. As she recalled and robed tan Obaum and 152 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: Craig Marks is two eleven book I Want My MTV, 153 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: The Uncensored Story of the Music video Revolution. Quote. I 154 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: made an emotional connection which I was not expecting. It 155 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: didn't hit me when I was recording the song and 156 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: only kicked in when I was being filmed. So I 157 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: was sitting there thinking about me mother and trying hard 158 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: nut to bawl my eyes up. I had one little 159 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: tear that became the whole video, but it wasn't supposed 160 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: to be. The video was massive, and it changed my career. 161 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: It did nothing compares to you. One Video of the 162 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: Year at the ninet ninety Video Music Awards, making O'Connor 163 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: the first woman ever to win in that category. She 164 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: beat out Madonna's Vogue for the prize. She also took 165 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: home moon Men for Best Female Video, also beating out 166 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: Vogue and Best Postmodern Video, a category that would be 167 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: renamed Best Alternative Video of the following year. The song 168 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: and video made her a household name. If she didn't 169 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: look like other female pop stars of the era, few 170 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: could argue with the gorgeousness of her voice or the 171 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: captivating rawness of her video's imagery. O'Connor's grief over the 172 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: loss of her mother may have pervaded the video for 173 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: nothing compares to you, but the relationship was fraught, she writes, 174 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: and her two thousand twenty one memoir rememberings of the 175 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: abuse she suffered as a child the hands of her mother, 176 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: whom she recalls would beat her with her field hockey 177 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: stick or a carpet sweeper pole, forcing her to strip naked. 178 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: She would hit her with the sweeping brush and make 179 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: her repeat I am nothing. She also writes at her 180 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: mother with locker in her room or under the stairs 181 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: and starved her, and that she once purposely crashed her car, 182 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: which she neade in the passenger seat when she needs 183 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: older brother Joe, ran away and refused to come home. 184 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: Her mother was hospitalized. She eventually lost a custody of 185 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: Shade and her siblings. She Need's youngest brother, John, stayed 186 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: with his mother until a second crash. He was in 187 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: the backseat of the car when it happened, but he survived. 188 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: He was sixteen when his mother died. She Neede was eighteen. 189 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: Her mother left four children behind that was and rememberings. 190 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: O'Connor describes the bewilderment and anger she felt after her 191 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: mother's death. She recounts screaming into the sky at God, 192 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: running from the funeral home. I don't think I'll have 193 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: her stopped running, she writes. She vows to smoke herself 194 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: into oblivion, to smoke until she too is dead and 195 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: can reunite her mother, as chaotic and abusive as a 196 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: relationship had been. Later that same year, O'Connor left for 197 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: London because she had landed a record contract with the 198 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: label Ensign, but she couldn't escape the pain and trauma. 199 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: It would permeate so much of her work, but also 200 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: put a fire in her belly. She would become more 201 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: than just a compelling performer. She would become a crusader. 202 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: Up next, after the Break, we discussed Shied O'Connor's critically 203 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: held first two albums, The Lion in the Cobra and 204 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got, her first 205 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: big public act of protest at the Grammy Awards, and 206 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: her controversial reaction to her sudden newfound fame. It was 207 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: the late nineteen eighties, Snad O'Connor had landed her first 208 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: record contract, but she was barely an adult. She signed 209 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: the contract, agreeing to earn a mirror seven percent of 210 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: what her records sold, and to pay for nearly all 211 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: the recording, promoting, and touring. Out of that seven percent, 212 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: she didn't know any better. Paperwork bored her. One demo 213 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: she wrote that would end up on her debut album, 214 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: The Line in the Cobra, was Troy, one of the tensest, 215 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: most searing, most brain tangling tracks to come out of 216 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: the eighties, and the first time O'Connor had sung about 217 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: her mother. But it wasn't just about her mother. Like 218 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: most songs, it was also about love and heartbreak, a 219 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: palpable heartbreak. When O'Connor unleashes roars its most memorable line, 220 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: I'd kill a dragon for you, I'll die, it genuinely 221 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: sounds mid evil, savage and terrifying. She is your valiant knight, 222 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: sword in hand, ready to slay the beast. But she 223 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: is also the night, a black, cold, lonely, desperate void 224 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: longing to be filled, And she is the beast at 225 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: menacing and engulfed in its own flames. You can hear 226 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: her battered and shattered history, the torment and the fury, 227 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: all that she's endured before the age of twenty. Troy 228 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: possesses the same dichotomy you here, and nothing compares to you. 229 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: It swerves from delicate to defiant in an instant. That dichotomy, 230 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: that clashing of tender vulnerability and steadfast resistance, would define 231 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: O'Connor's career. After her turbulent childhood and adolescence. She had 232 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: little patience for those who wished to control her. Any 233 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: whiff of bullshit sexism, misogyny, homophobia, exploitation, abuse, or hypocrisy, 234 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: and her guard immediately came up and Powers remembers attending 235 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: one of O'Connor's early prece events, she was immediately moved 236 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: by her poise and candor, that vibe you get from 237 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: a young person who is unafraid of everything and yet 238 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: aware of every ghost and demon in the room. And 239 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: that is what said was from the beginning. She was 240 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: not callous. She didn't have that kind of attitude that 241 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: a lot of male punks did. Who I encountered in 242 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: the scene, you know, she was open, but she was 243 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: also just absolutely determined to make the moves she wanted 244 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: to make. Over lunch one day, a pair of record 245 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: exact that her label told o'connory, like, I just stopped 246 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: cutting her hair short and wear short skirts and jewelry 247 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: to essentially present more like quote unquote girl. She responded 248 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: by buzzing all their hair off, as she recalled, and 249 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: I want my MTV quote they described their mistresses to 250 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: me and said I should look like that. I didn't 251 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: want to be pushed as some kind of pretty girl, 252 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: so my way of answering was to shave my head. 253 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be governed by a load of 254 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: middle aged blokes. Her appearance was striking and unconventional for 255 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: a young female singer in the late nineteen eighties and 256 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: early nineties. MTV dug it, but not everyone. O'Connor to 257 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: Old Spin magazine in the Madonna said she looked quote 258 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: like I had a run in with a lawnmower, and 259 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: that I was about as sexy as a Venetian blind. 260 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: She scoffed at the idea of that Madonna was seen 261 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: as a sort of feminist hero when she was cutting 262 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: other women down like that. During production for The Lion 263 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: and the Cobra, O'Connor discovered she was pregnant when a 264 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: doctor relayed to her that her label did not think 265 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: she should keep the baby. After he had spent so 266 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: much money on the album, she was offended and incensed. 267 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: She not only kept her baby, but scrapped the record, 268 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: which she was hating anyway, and decided to start again. 269 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: Though she didn't really know how to use studio equipment, 270 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: she would produce it herself. She learned quickly, and the 271 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: gambit paid off. Rarely do debut album sound as confident, fearless, 272 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: and fully formed as The Lion in the Cobra, a 273 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: work that heralded the arrival of a genuine artist with 274 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: a genuine vision. O'Connor was just shy of twenty one 275 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: when it came out. The Lion and the Cobra is 276 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: widely considered one of the best albums of the nineteen 277 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: eighties and one of the best debut albums of any decade. 278 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: It eventually went gold and earned O'Connor a Grammy nomination 279 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance. She performed her college 280 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: radio hit Mandinka at the nineteen nine ceremony and a 281 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: head turning ensemble, a black halter top that revealed her middrift, 282 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: torn baggy blue jeans, and her signature Doc Martin's. She 283 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: tucked the sleeves of her new son Jake's onesie through 284 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: her belt loops and wore it around her waist a 285 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: slive fuck you to the label who had essentially asked 286 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: her not to have him. She also boasted an image 287 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: of a man in the crosshairs of a gun, shaved 288 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: and died on the side of her head. The design 289 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: was the hip hop group Public Enemy's logo, meant to 290 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: symbolize the plight of the black man in America. O'Connor 291 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: ward out of solidarity to support them and other rappers 292 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: whose music had been excluded from the show. While the 293 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: Recording Academy had decided to recognize hip hop was its 294 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: first ever award for Best Rap Performance, it would not 295 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: announce the winner and present the award on television. O'Connor 296 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: styling was political, an act of protest. Audiences who had 297 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: been unfamiliar with her were intrigued mystified. I don't know 298 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: no shame, she wails in Mandinka. The Grammys performance made 299 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: you believe it. O'Connor's outspokenness and rebellious streak would not 300 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: diminish as her star ros After Nothing Compares to You 301 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: conquered MTV and her second album es I Do Not 302 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: Want What I haven't got when multi platinum, she could 303 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: have set aside her politics to avoid courting controversy and 304 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: focus on her career. But if she makes clear in 305 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: her memoir Rememberings and in Catherine Ferguson's documentary Nothing Compares, 306 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: the singer was never interested in becoming an international celebrity. 307 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: She had punk roots and a punk sensibility, says Ferguson. 308 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: I just don't think she had ever said that to 309 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: be a pop star that wasn't her goal. You know, 310 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: she was a very serious musician who happened to become 311 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: a global phenomenon, and I think she didn't go into 312 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: it ever wanting that she didn't want to be pigeonholed 313 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: or have the life that's being created for her. Some 314 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: would say O'Connor could write the book on how to 315 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: derail a pop career. She refused to comply when faced 316 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: with anything that did not align with her belief system 317 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: and rapped up plenty of enemies along the way. She 318 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: pulled out of a Saturday Night Live appearance when she 319 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: learned that Andrew dice Clay, a comedian known for his 320 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: homophobic and misogynist sets, was the host. He responded with 321 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: a skip, mocking the quote unquote bald chick. When O'Connor 322 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: said she'd prefer that the Star Spangled ban Or not 323 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: be played before he show at Garden State Arts Center 324 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: in New Jersey, it caused a national uproar, with many 325 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: calling her quote unquote anti American. Politicians protested her radio 326 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: stations refused to play her music. Robert mc hammer sent 327 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: her a check for a ticket back to Ireland. Frank 328 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: Sinatra said she must be quote unquote one stupid broad 329 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: and threatened to quote unquote kicker ass if she were 330 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: a guy. She skipped the Grammys and refused to accept 331 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: her award for Best Alternative Music Performance, writing a letter 332 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: to the Recording Academy accusing it of favoring materialism over songwriting. 333 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: In fact, she declined all the awards she received for 334 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: I Do not want what I Haven't got. O'Connor explains 335 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: her choice and rememberings writing, quote commercial success outranked artistic merit. 336 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: I made a lot of money for a lot of 337 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: men who couldn't actually have cared less what the songs 338 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: were about. She went on, I'm a punk, not a 339 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 1: pop star, adding music shouldn't be such a competition. Her 340 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: critics deemed her ungrateful. After the Grammys that year, she 341 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: left Los Angeles to return to the UK, giving her 342 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: house to the Red Cross. Whether O'Connor wanted to be 343 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: a pop star or not, she was, and pop stars 344 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: with number one hits and big awards rarely ruffled feathers 345 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: like this. She was right. The stuff she was doing 346 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: was what punks did, mostly male punks in the early nineties. 347 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: She was a young twenty something woman in a male 348 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: dominated industry that was still new to her, says music 349 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: journalist dam Powers. I don't think she was sacrificed, but 350 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: I do think she was out there on the bow 351 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: of the ship before this happened to a lot of 352 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: other people, and um didn't have a lot of guidance 353 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: and didn't have a lot of examples of how to 354 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: negotiate this successfully. On the strength of the success of 355 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: Nothing Compares to You, I Do Not Want What I 356 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: Haven't Got went to number one in multiple countries, including 357 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: O'Connor's home country of Ireland, But rather than maintain that 358 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: upper trajectory and release a more pop inflected follow up, 359 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: she took a sharp left turn. Her next record, Am 360 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: I Not Your Girl? Wasn't pop at all. It wasn't 361 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: punk or really folk either. It was a collection of 362 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: covers of show tunes and jazz standards her parents had 363 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: played while she was growing up, music that inspired her 364 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: to pursue a singing career. In her memoir, O'Connor admits 365 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: that am I Not Your Girl was a quote unquote 366 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: red heron. She didn't want to deal with anxiety of 367 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: delivering another I do not want what I haven't got. 368 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: She didn't want to deal with anxiety of being a 369 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: pop star period. There's nothing compares. Director Katherine Ferguson hypothesizes 370 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: O'Connor's about face may have stemmed from her desire to 371 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: come up for air after releasing two albums of heavy, 372 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: intimate material that she says in the film, and I 373 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: think she was buying herself time to work out her 374 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: next album. But these were all tracks that she really loved, 375 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of them she'd been introduced to as 376 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: a child. She's been told that the previous albums like 377 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: reading somebody's diary and it was far too personals. So 378 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: maybe there was a maybe this was a bit of 379 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: a bit of light light relief for her. If it 380 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: was lighter air for her, O'Connor still attached profound meaning 381 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: to these songs. She included the folk ballad Scarlet Ribbons 382 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: because her father used to sing it to her when 383 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: she was a little girl. She chose to cover a 384 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: Vita's Don't Cry for Me Argentina because her mother loved it. 385 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: Still allotted award winning chart topping pop breakout, pivoting to 386 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: a jazz album right after she become one of the 387 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: most famous singers in the world. O'Connor's decision was super 388 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: risky and baffling, particularly in the fall of when grunge 389 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: gangs to Wrap, Eurodance and Swooney R and B were 390 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: dominating the charts. It seemed hopelessly uncool, says An Powers. 391 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: There's a lot of pathos in this in this track listing, 392 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of pathos in her performances. As 393 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: a career move, it was it was suicidal. I mean, 394 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: it was absolutely walking away from the momentum that she had. 395 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: In a sense, O'Connor abandoning pop for a standards album 396 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: was one of the most punk things she could have done. 397 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: It's one of those bold moves that it seems incredibly foolish, 398 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: but in the context of her whole career, makes total sense. 399 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: It's like early on she's saying, you cannot control me. 400 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: And if this sacrifice um leaves me away from the 401 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: kind of mainstream career the music industry wants me to have, 402 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: I'll deal with that. Am I not Your Girl? Is 403 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: a sleepy listen. It's pretty, but it just doesn't showcase 404 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: O'Connor's incredible voice enough compared to the blazing richness of 405 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: her first two records. It's tepan, but at certain moments 406 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: it's sores. With all due respect to Patty Lapone, O'Connor's 407 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: interpretation of Don't Cry for Me Argentina is unsurpassed. Tim Rice, 408 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: who wrote its lyrics, agrees. He mailed O'Connor a letter 409 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: after hearing it, saying it was the best version he'd heard, 410 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: hands down. And as for fortune and as for fame, 411 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: I never invited them in though it seemed to the 412 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: world they were all I desired. They are illusions. They're 413 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: not the solutions they promised to be. It's hard to 414 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: listen to those lines from the song without thinking of 415 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: O'Connor's owned a limit. At the time, the same goes 416 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: for the album's other highlight, success has made a failure 417 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: of our Home, which she admits in her memoir was autobiographical, 418 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: a nod to her struggle with the trappings of her 419 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: own newfound success, and the liner notes of am I 420 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: Not Your Girl? O'Connor addresses child abuse and its consequences, 421 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: the death of self esteem, fear, addiction. We have not 422 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: been told the truth, she writes. The message is love. 423 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: What can save us? She titled her musings or Where 424 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: Is the Lost King, adding if you're out there, I 425 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: want to see you. Turns out the songs were more 426 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: than just jazz remakes. Her personal trauma and her protest 427 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: against abuse of any kind suffused the songs, says Powers. 428 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: It was a very unexpected move for an artist like this, 429 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: especially following up you know, her massive Popsick, says, and 430 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: through that project she was you know, reaching back into 431 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: her own childhood and confronting the violence that had been 432 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: part of her upbringing um and starting to really I 433 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: think grapple with the legacies the of of exploitation of 434 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: children and violence towards children that would then motivate her 435 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: to make a career changing move up next After the break, 436 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: we explore that career changing move O'Connor's controversial scandalous performance 437 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: on Saturday Night Live, during which she tore up a 438 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: photo of the Pope and told yours to quote unquote 439 00:26:46,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: like the real enemy. The year was nat O'Connor was 440 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: living in New York City and was set to promote 441 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: her latest album, Am I Not Your Girl, which was 442 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: released in September. But the singer had other things on 443 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: her mind. If she noted in the liner notes of 444 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: the record, she had turned her attention to the tense 445 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: social climate, specifically to news of child abuse and the 446 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: fight for abortion rights, says Catherine Ferguson, director of the 447 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: two thousand twenty two counter documentary Nothing Compares. She had 448 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: been reading about the cover of abuse in Ireland and 449 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: families being silent, and I think she was just really 450 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: enraged by the hypocrisy and felt compelled to take a stand. 451 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, in Ireland was a pretty 452 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: tumultuous time. The troubles were still awful in the North, 453 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: and the size, and of course the question of of 454 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: women's bodily autonomy was ready back in the news. In 455 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: the sight of Ireland, there was a very famous case 456 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: called the X case, where young fourteen year old have 457 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: been raised and her family had taken her to England 458 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: for an abortion, but then the Irish placed the guards 459 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: while she was in England. They were learned to an 460 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: injunction ordering them to come home. You know, this tech 461 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: started a huge swathe of protests and up roar and 462 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: a lot around Catholicism and the control in the church. 463 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: And she made was even in ninety two, she'd actually 464 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: appeared at one of these big pro choice rallies in Dublin. 465 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: She'd been reading about these cases and thinking about it. 466 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: And I suppose when you look back at what she 467 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: ensured as a child and a teenager, it's just all 468 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: kind of came full circle. And O'Connor recalls in her 469 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: memoir when her mother died, she returned her home for 470 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: the first time in a long time. The only photo 471 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: in her mother's room, the only photo she remembers her 472 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: ever having in her room, was of Pope John Paul, 473 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: the Second visiting Ireland in ninety nine. She writes of 474 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: the photo it represented lies and liars and abuse. The 475 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: type of people who kept these things were devils Like 476 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: my mother. I never knew when or where or how 477 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,479 Speaker 1: I would destroy it, But destroy it I would when 478 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: the right moment came. She kept the photo every time 479 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: she moved, says Ferguson. I think this picture on the 480 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: wall of her mother's bedroom. It was very While in 481 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: New York, O'Connor met Terry, a West Indian Rastafarian man 482 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: from St. Lucia who worked at a juice bar, which 483 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: was really a front for him and his friends to 484 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: sell weed. One night, just before she would appear as 485 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: musical guest on Saturday Night Live, Terry revealed to her 486 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: that he had been using children as drug mules, running 487 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: guns and drugs in their book bags. He had invaded 488 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: someone's turf, and his life was now in danger. O'Connor 489 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: was shocked, livid, distraught. She saw him the Friday night 490 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: before her SNL set and that would be the last 491 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: time she ever saw him. The newspaper stories of children 492 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: being abused by priests and their parents having their stories 493 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: suppressed and silenced were weighing on O'Connor. She was angry, 494 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: even angrier knowing that her friend Terry had also been 495 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: abusing children. Was it time to exhume her mother's photo? 496 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: Was it time to break the silence? For her first number, 497 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: on the October third episode of Saturday Night Live, O'Connor 498 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: performed success has made a failure of our home pointed apt. 499 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: For her second number, she was supposed to perform Bob 500 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: Marley's War Acapella, a song about how racism is a 501 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: root of all fighting and bloodshed, and hold up a 502 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: photograph of a Brazilian child killed by police. As the 503 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: camera zoomed in, O'Connor surrounded herself with candles. She wore 504 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: a white lace dress that the previously belonged to shade 505 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: that she bought it an auction at nineteen. She also 506 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: wore a Star of David necklace and draped a rasta 507 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: prayer cloth over the microphone. She delivered the song's final line, 508 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: we have confidence in the victory of good over evil, 509 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: But when she reached the word evil, she revealed a 510 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: different photograph, her mother's picture of Pope John Paul the 511 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: second fight, the real enemy, O'Connor shouted. She ripped the 512 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: photo in half one time, two times, three times before 513 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: throwing its pieces toward the camera. Watch the moment on 514 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: YouTube and you can hear only the sound of tearing 515 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: and a single male voice, seemingly an audience member, and 516 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: meeting a shocked woe no applause, O'Connor takes out her 517 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: ear plugs and blows out the candles. She recalls walking 518 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: backstage to close doors cast crew. Her manager had disappeared. 519 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: Everyone had abandoned her, except her personal assistant, who helped 520 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: her pack up and leave. News of O'Connor's s and 521 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: OW performance broke meat Elite throughout Sunday and Monday. NBC 522 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: reportedly received more than four thousand calls from outraged viewers. 523 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: She was banned from the show for life, says Ferguson. 524 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: I just don't know if people even knew what they 525 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: just sing at the time. They just probably couldn't even 526 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: comprehend what. Music journalists and Powers has vivid memories of 527 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: watching the Saturday live performance in real time that evening. 528 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: She like everyone else, was stunned, But she could see 529 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: the resolve on O'Connor's face. But she looked like someone 530 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: who was going into battle. Never has said looked as 531 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: much like you know what I imagined Joan of Arc 532 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: looking like, you know, just complete absorption and her intention 533 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: her action at the time people were like, what did 534 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: what she really meaning to do? What she did? But 535 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: I could see it in her eyes. She knew exactly 536 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: what she intended to do. Did she know with the 537 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: ramification were No, but she definitely new uh what she 538 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: wanted to do the minute she started singing that song. 539 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: As an Irish American woman who grew up Catholic and 540 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: felt the strict, heavy handed rule of the church powers championed, 541 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: O'Connor stand against its transgressions and hypocrisy. Anyone raised Catholic 542 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: or in a Catholic dominated culture knows how what a 543 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: stronghold that ideology can have on a person. Uh So 544 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: for me, it was incredibly cathartic. More repercussions came instantly, 545 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: and they were enormous. With one simple act, O'Connor had 546 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: detonated her career, at least her career as a famous 547 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: pop artist. No, she never really wanted that career, but 548 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: she also could never have predicted the severity of the 549 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: fallout after the notorious performance, says Ferguson. Even a star, 550 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: which she was, was like one of the biggest musicians 551 00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: in the world, literally probably the top three. Being a 552 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: lottest in the world. She wasn't untouchable, and she suffered 553 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: the consequences for, you know, for using her platform and 554 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: speaking out. You know, there were steam rulers rolling over 555 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: her records in Times Square, there were death threats to her, 556 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: managements to her and her family, lots of videos refused 557 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: by music. You know, the tabloid press had a failed 558 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: Day before the SNL incident, O'Connor had been invited to 559 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,959 Speaker 1: perform at a Bob Dylan tribute concert at New York's 560 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden. Given that he was one of her 561 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: idols and biggest influences, she was over the moon. This 562 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 1: was an advantage of being famous. She could fully support 563 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: the chance of a lifetime. Just a couple of weeks 564 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: had passed and she torn up the photo of the Pope. 565 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 1: It was fresh in the audience's minds as she took 566 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: to the stage to perform a cover of Dylan's I 567 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: Believe In You. The sound that ensued was horrifying and excruciating, 568 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: cacophony of booze and cheers, all encompassing to the point 569 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: that O'Connor could not sing. She describes it in Rememberings 570 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: as quote unquote, a sonic riot is that the sky 571 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: is ripping apart. She stood mortified and paralyzed, her dreams 572 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: shattering before her eyes. She began to pace, afraid of 573 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: being drowned out, but also of doing nothing and letting 574 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: her hackers win. She tells her band to stop stop 575 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,720 Speaker 1: playing the music. She takes her headphones eyes by imagine 576 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: people are telling they're asking him through She's getting a 577 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: lot of people in her ear, what are you doing? 578 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: And she ripped them out of her ears, and she 579 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: just starts to sing Bob Marley's War again, but a 580 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,479 Speaker 1: much more furious version at this audience of twenty thighs 581 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: and people the Madison Square gardens and just screams the 582 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: words over the crowd. That's really it's a harrowing wash. 583 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: And then it's such a harrowing was because she's just 584 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: horrified by the response she gets. And you know, this 585 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: is after two weeks of background that she's had all 586 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: over the world. Country singer Chris christoffers and joined her 587 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: on stage, leaning in and telling her, don't let the 588 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: bastards get you down. They exited, he hugged her. O'Connor 589 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: recalls nearly throwing up on him. Later, she went to 590 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: Dylan's manager to ask him in the singer to help 591 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: her expose the child abuse at the hands of the 592 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,439 Speaker 1: Irish Church. He refused. After the Medicine Square Garden show, 593 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: her father suggested that she abandoned music and go back 594 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: to school. Some have called O'Connor's s n L set 595 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: an active performance art. She didn't explain herself, and afterwards 596 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: her many critics didn't want an explanation. They didn't understand 597 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: and didn't care to. She was on her own, a 598 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: solitary crusader. Fame was lonely. Activism was even lonelier, says 599 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: and powers. That's an interesting thing about her fame in general, UM, 600 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: because when you think of the apex of her success, 601 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: that video for nothing compares to you. It's just her. 602 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 1: You know, you never see a band, you don't see 603 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: her collaborators. It's just her. And when you think of 604 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: that moment on Saturday Live Again, it's just even though 605 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: there was a band, it's just her. You only think 606 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: about her. And then when you think of her getting 607 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: booed off the stage at the Dylan thing again, she 608 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: is always like alone and and that speaks so profoundly 609 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: to the um. The predicament of women in music and 610 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: in rock, especially at that time. O'Connor would continue to 611 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: release albums Beautiful Ones, her follow up to Am I 612 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: Not Your Girl? Universal Mother offered some of her most 613 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: personal work Yet It's gorgeous and brutal. She dabbled in 614 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: traditional Irish folk, reggae, rock, spiritual music, and even pomp, 615 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: but a provocative SNL performance cast a long shadow over 616 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: her career and did a number on her mental health. 617 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: As she said in a two thousand twenty one interview 618 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: with Entertainment Weekly, quote the ten years after that Saturday 619 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: Night Live performance, the way that I was dealt with 620 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: was shocking. It was the fashion to treat me bad, 621 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: whether you were in my bed, at a board meeting, 622 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: a TV show, a gig, or a party. Everybody treated 623 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: me like I was a crazy bitch because I ripped 624 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: up the Pope's picture. We know I'm a crazy bitch, 625 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: but that's not why, says Ferguson, I think not having 626 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: the number ones and being a world famous, iconic pop store, 627 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: she could live with that, but I think, you know, 628 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: the way she was treated was disgraceful. She says. You know, 629 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: in those days, just the press aren't writing about you, 630 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: and people aren't buying your records. You know you've essentially vanished. 631 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: That wouldn't happen today because well, I don't think it 632 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: could happen today because of social media. For many, O'Connor 633 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,240 Speaker 1: became invisible for others, a punchline for others, the enemy. 634 00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: But if she states in her memoir and in fergus 635 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: Since documentary, nothing compares. She has no regrets about the 636 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: SNL scandal. If anything, it may have saved her from 637 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: an even darker fate. As O'Connor writes and rememberings quote, 638 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: A lot of people say or think that tearing up 639 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: the Pope's photo derailed my career. That's not how I 640 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: feel about it. I feel that having a number one 641 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: record derailed my career. Am I tearing the photo put 642 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: me back on the right track After us and L 643 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: I could just be me, do what I love. And 644 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: what she loves more than anything is what she's loved 645 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: from the beginning. One of the few gifts her mother 646 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: gave her the music. I've done only one holy thing 647 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: in my life, she writes, and that was saying Catherine 648 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,240 Speaker 1: Ferguson fell in love with O'Connor in her early teens, 649 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: she was demoralized watching the SNL backlash, and her fondness 650 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: for the singers music only grew deeper as she entered adulthood. 651 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: She had the opportunity to collaborate with O'Connor on the 652 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: video for her two thousand thirteen single Fourth and Vine 653 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: and The Two Captain Touch. In two thousand eighteen, Ferguson 654 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: found herself feeling like the world had been turned quote 655 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 1: unquote upside down. She had witnessed the Me Too movement 656 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: and the women's marches following the election of Donald Trump 657 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: as US president. Government investigations and cases in Ireland had 658 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: revealed that hundreds of priests had abused thousands of children 659 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: for decades, with much of the abuse being covered up. 660 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: Investigations and allegations in America over the past decade and 661 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: a half had also revealed a pattern of sexual abuse 662 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 1: and cover ups, and a large number of dioceses across 663 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: the country. Child abuse and the Catholic Church had become 664 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: a global crisis. In August of two eighteen, and the 665 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: first papal visit to Ireland and thirty nine years Pope 666 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: Francis publicly acknowledged the abuse of young people by clergy 667 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: members and the harmon had caused to them in the 668 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: Roman Catholic Church, even meeting with eight victims of abuse. 669 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: Ireland also held a referendum to legalize abortion rights. Ferguson 670 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: kept thinking of O'Connor. It just felt really absurd to 671 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: me that she wasn't mentioned in these conversations and at 672 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: that time, you know, especially when surely she must have 673 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: inspired so many of the activists in these movements. It 674 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: just felt like quite an urgent story I wanted to tell, 675 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: and particularly through a contemporary lens. Ferguson decided her next 676 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: project would be the documentary Nothing Compares, which would celebrate 677 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: O'Connor's work and lasting impact. The film premiered on Showtime 678 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: and was released in theaters in the UK and Ireland 679 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: this past fall. It was met with rave reviews and 680 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: won two British Independent Film Awards in December, including Best 681 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: Feature Documentary and Best Debut Director. Audience reactions to have 682 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: been over wellmingly positive. Ferguson recalls one particular screening in Ireland. 683 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: I was sat in an audience with five people and 684 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: all ages from twelve up to and quite a quiet 685 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: audience throughout the film, completely rampack. And when we get 686 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: to that moment, the Saturday Night Live moment and she 687 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 1: ripped up the Pope, the entire audience just started to 688 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: cheer and whoop and punch the air and shouts, and 689 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: it just was amazing. It was just amazing, actually see 690 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: how far things come in the place where this was 691 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,280 Speaker 1: all from. Just to see the reaction of the crowd 692 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: was very much, very much one day. O'Connor had been 693 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: telling the truth, desperately trying to expose it, but many 694 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: refused to listen. Everybody's just thinking, oh my god, how 695 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,399 Speaker 1: did we did we trader the way that we did, 696 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: and however they let this happen, you know, and everything 697 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: that she was saying and saying it was that's what 698 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: needed to be heard. There was nobody really anywhere talking 699 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: about it. It was well to come by ten years later. 700 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: It was she was so ahead of her time, or 701 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 1: rather the rest of us were too late. Like many 702 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: women navigating the choppy waters of the music industry, Katie Lange, 703 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 1: Sophie Bie Hawkins, Torre Amos, Madonna, O'Connor fought for her 704 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,359 Speaker 1: voice to be heard and Like many of those women, 705 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,280 Speaker 1: she was met with opposition and disdain. While so many artists, 706 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,760 Speaker 1: especially women, would make compromises were backed down to preserve 707 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: their careers, O'Connor sacrificed massive success, wealth, awards, celebrity for 708 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: what she believed in. She was determined to fight against 709 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,399 Speaker 1: the ugliness, cruelty, and injustice in the world, says music 710 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 1: journalists and powers set O'Connor has always been a political artist. 711 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: She has always written topical songs, address racism, very profoundly 712 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: confronted religious hierarchies. She has stood as uh a person 713 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: who presents herself just as she wants to. And it's 714 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: not always something that that people appreciate, casual fans especially, 715 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,320 Speaker 1: oh that crazy se But you know what, it's the 716 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: challenge to the norms that's so important. It's the openness 717 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: and honesty about that in her music, which remains so 718 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: beautiful and so deep, like so much deeper than of 719 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,359 Speaker 1: what else is out there, that keeps me coming back 720 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: to her. Many considered she O'Connor to be at best 721 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,399 Speaker 1: a hopeless attention seeker and at worst a threat. Now 722 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: after thousands of incidents of child abuse in the Catholic 723 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: Church have come to light after the count this racial 724 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: reckonings in recent years, after the Grammys have been forced 725 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: to address allegations of gender and racial bias. Many consider 726 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: her a prophet and a hero. And what was fascinating 727 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,320 Speaker 1: to hear is that for the first time in the 728 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: last decade, she's now being written in with the history 729 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: books in Ireland. But I think she's got quite a 730 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: time ahead of her in the next few years. I 731 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: think it's gonna be a younger demographic. We're really going 732 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: to look to her and what she did and as inspiration. 733 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: Ferguson points to a vibrant mural in Dublin's Temple Our 734 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: neighborhood has further evidence of O'Connor's reappraisal and legacy. It 735 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: depicts a singer wearing a shawl over her head, appearing 736 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: saintly in solemn. She has that same look of determination 737 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 1: in her eyes that she had when she ripped up 738 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: that photo of the Pope on Saturday Night Live all 739 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: those years ago. The mural reads sad you were right 740 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,879 Speaker 1: all along, we were wrong, so sorry, And we're living 741 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: in a moment now where I think where we as 742 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: a society, as a culture have opened ourselves up to 743 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: hearing some some difficult truths, you know, whether it's how 744 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 1: we speak to each other on social media, or what 745 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: books we're reading now, or what what movies we want 746 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: to see. Um, that's there and I want to hear 747 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,879 Speaker 1: more of that in popular music too, and I think 748 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: we are hearing it. But Shend has given us a 749 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,879 Speaker 1: legacy and a guide to how to do that. Don't 750 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: only think of her as the that crazy woman who 751 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: did some crazy things. Recognize the truth she offers us. 752 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: Where Were You in ninety two was a production of 753 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Noel Brown and 754 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: Jordan run Tug. The show was researched, written and hosted 755 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 1: by me Jason Lafier, with editing and sound design by 756 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,439 Speaker 1: Michael Alder June. If you like what you heard, please 757 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts from 758 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,879 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app, 759 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.