1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Quody tis, but Joseph Scott More. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 2: Whenever people say that they have made a mistake or 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: that they have misspoken, I almost kind of leaning because 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: I don't always believe that people make mistakes, because as 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: we've found out, people intentionally do bad things, but they 6 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: want you to think they've made a mistake or that 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: they have in fact misspoken. Generally, the proof, as they say, 8 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: is in the pudding. Today, we're going to have a 9 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 2: conversation about an ongoing case that has been in the 10 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: news now for several weeks. As a matter of fact, 11 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: at this point in time, as I'm speaking to you, 12 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: my dear friends, we don't have a body, but we do, 13 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: in this old death investigator's opinion, have some evidence that 14 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: we need to go. Today, we're going to talk a 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: little bit about Emmanuel Horror and also a sister that 16 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: some people may have forgotten. Coming to you from the 17 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University. I am Joseph Scott Morgan, 18 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: and this is Bodybacks, Dave. Don't you love it when 19 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: people say it was a mistake. It was a mistake 20 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: that I did the sing and this scene is so 21 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: egregious that you know that it wasn't a mistake. It 22 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: was probably intentional and you can learn a lot about it. 23 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: I mean, there are people that do. In fact, may 24 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 2: I make mistakes. I have mistakes. Probably every day you 25 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: make mistakes. But sometimes things are so big and so broad. 26 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: It's like, now, you didn't make a mistake. You didn't, 27 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: you know, you didn't just kind of foul it up, 28 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: you know, or misspeak or whatever the case might be. 29 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 2: I took a wrong turn. It's not that they want 30 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: to reduce it, I think. And I got to tell 31 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: you just looking over the data in this case. And 32 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: by the way, I got to tell you, Dave mac 33 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: is one of the best producers in the business. And 34 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: you know why, folks that he is, because he provides 35 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: me with so much data. As a matter of fact, 36 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: sometimes feel like I'm drowning in it, which is good. 37 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 2: I want to drowning data. It's better to have more 38 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: than us. And you know, and just the data that 39 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: has been provided up to this point is kind of, 40 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: in my opinion, is kind of overwhelmingly not in favor 41 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: of a mistake when it comes to a Manuel. No, 42 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: but Dave, you had mentioned that Emmanuel has a sister 43 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: and her life, I would say, is equally as tragic, 44 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 2: and it's being played still being played out on stage 45 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 2: to this point. 46 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 3: When you combine the stories. Okay, this one started as 47 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: a child abduction case on August fourteenth, when Rebecca Harrow 48 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 3: claimed she was changing seven month old Emmanuel Harrow's diaper 49 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 3: in front of a sporting good store when an unknown 50 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: man to her says oh law and knocks her out 51 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: and steals the baby and runs away. She reports it 52 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: to the sporting good store. They call nine one one, 53 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 3: and that's where this case began. This story fell apart 54 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 3: fairly quickly. There's a couple of things difficult to explain. 55 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: One is the black eye that she was on TV 56 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 3: with That police talked to friends, neighbors, and other people 57 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: who said, no, she had that black eye. I didn't 58 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: come from the assault she had that. 59 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: Wait hang on one second. I'm fascinated by this one 60 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: a little bit, and I have been because I've caught 61 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: snatches of this case. I cover a lot of other stuff, 62 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 2: and I caught snatches of this case. And the way 63 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: it was presented to me, Dave is that she heard 64 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: somebody say oh lah, and then she's kind of struck 65 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 2: on the side or in the back of the head, 66 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: and then it's knocked unconscious. Now I'm not saying that 67 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: you couldn't be hit from the front, but most of 68 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: the time you've got a shiner on your eye. That 69 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: means that you've been impacted directly on the anti aspect 70 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 2: of your skull, you know, and in this case, the 71 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: orbit of the eye. Hece, you have this and when 72 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: I saw it, and I don't know how how long 73 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: a time it has been, this thing looks like it 74 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: was receding or reducing. It was well. I guess the 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: better term medically is resolving. Miss heiling terms. It just 76 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: didn't It's that part the fresh get dunk like to 77 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: high heaven. 78 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: If you're doing an interview within twenty four hours, which 79 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: she was on TV, of your child being taken, which 80 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: I would recommend anybody whose child is abducted or missing, 81 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 3: get on every TV thing you can as quickly as 82 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 3: you can so everybody is looking okay. 83 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: I do not dismiss that. 84 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 3: And my problem with what her story was was that 85 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: it didn't look like a fresh black eye. I've had 86 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: a few, I've had a few bruises in my life 87 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: and that that looked like a bruise that existed for 88 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: a while. And that's why when police said they had 89 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 3: inconsistencies in her story, I started looking because I'm peeling 90 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: back the public story that she was telling, which she was, 91 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 3: you know, on a couple of different channels, telling the 92 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 3: same story. But police said there were inconsistencies. And when 93 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 3: they challenged on them, hey, what's up with this, she 94 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 3: immediately shut it down, said, that's it not talking anymore. 95 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: When parents stop working with law enforcement, that's a sign 96 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 3: of a problem to me. And it happened here. There 97 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: were other people who had volunteered their time their money 98 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: to help searching, and they too, when something's not right 99 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 3: and it comes back you. 100 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: Ye, good business. 101 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: When you've got a child this fragile, and let's face it, 102 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: how do we start off? Mom is changing a diaper 103 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: in the parking lot. I mean, look, I've done it. 104 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many times I've changed diapers 105 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: in parking lots. You know, you go to get the 106 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: child out of the car and it's like, oh my goodness, 107 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: what does that smell? 108 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: Right? 109 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to take you in the store. 110 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: We're going to have change the diaper. Right now, we're 111 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 2: gonna put the dipper in the trash can. We're gonna 112 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: go about our business. It happens. That's not unusual, Okay. 113 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: What is unusual is that someone would tell a tale 114 00:06:53,800 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: like this and you're surrounded by CCTV. Right, you know, 115 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: we've named the sporting this there was Big five, right, 116 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: is that the name of it. That's something that you know, 117 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 2: to the best of my knowledge, we don't have in 118 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: our region. I'm sure it's something like Academy or Sports 119 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: Authority or DIX or something like that. They're going to 120 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: have surveillance and there, and it looked when I saw 121 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: the images, it kind of looks like a kind of 122 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: a strip mall kind of thing. Yeah, these other businesses 123 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: are going to have some kind of surveillance around there. 124 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: And the fact that and this is they didn't. 125 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: Know and really, yeah, they didn't have surveillance of where 126 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: the car, where her car was allegedly parked. They didn't 127 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: have surveillance. And there is word that there is a rumor, 128 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: many a true thing, or said as rumor, that she 129 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: had appeared at the store two or three days earlier, 130 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 3: claiming her car had been robbed, had been burglarized in 131 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 3: the parking lot. I wanted to know, do you have CCC. 132 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: Do you have surveillance video that I can look at 133 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: to see who broke into my car? We don't have 134 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 3: surveillance video. Okay, yeah, whether that's true or not. 135 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: So the plot doesn't fit in fact, thick gravy here. 136 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: But the thing is that, Joe, what we know is 137 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 3: that it was all bogus. That this story does not 138 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 3: hold any water at all. And when you look at 139 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: the parents who they've cut off contact with police, police 140 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 3: say the baby's dead and they're looking for a body. 141 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: They have arrested the parents and now charged them with murder. 142 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: And we're talking about a seven month old Emmanuel. And 143 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 3: you realize that Emmanuel has an older sister. At our birth, 144 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: their name was Caroline. It has been changed since then 145 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: to promise faith. But Joe, as soon as police got 146 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 3: to look at the first child, the older child of 147 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: By the way, I do want to add, there are 148 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: other children involved here, including a two year old little 149 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: girl that is the daughter of Rebecca Horrow. I don't 150 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 3: know if Jake Harrow is the father of two year 151 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 3: old Rebecca, but Rebecca was I mean, so I apologize 152 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 3: the two year old little girl that was living with them. 153 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 3: I know that that two year old was removed from 154 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: the home when they started investigating in Manuel's disappearance. Okay, 155 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: but Jake Harrow has another daughter who is now seven 156 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 3: years old, and when she was just ten weeks old, 157 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 3: ten weeks old, Joe, she already had healing broken ribs 158 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 3: at ten weeks old, and a whole lot more that 159 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 3: I need you to explain to me. How did anybody 160 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 3: let this man walk among the rest of us. 161 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: I don't know that that's that's the rub here, because 162 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: you know, if you look at a Manual's case and 163 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: you go back in time to this precious little girl, who, 164 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 2: by the way, you said, at seven, she's in a 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: vegetative state. Da to this day, she's still alive. She's 166 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: been adopted out, I think to a family member, yes, 167 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: but yet a vegetative state. And Dave, the trauma that 168 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: was inflicted upon her is almost unimaginable. It's you know, 169 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 2: for I think for most of us, it's unmanageable, unimaginable 170 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: relative to any child, regardless of the age. But Dave 171 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: were talking ten weeks old, what would drive a human being. 172 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: To do. 173 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: This kind of evil to a child that is has 174 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: just been born, has been born, I can't get by. 175 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: I don't know if my numbers are right, because it's hard. 176 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: I'm assuming that at ten weeks she might could roll 177 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: over by that point in time. You know, that's like 178 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: one of those markers that you have developmentally, and I'm 179 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: sure that's variable from child. This child is not. This 180 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 2: child is not up and like crawling around necessarily. The 181 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: child is certainly not holding on to things and what 182 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 2: do they call it cruising? That's way down the line 183 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: from this. You know what this child is doing. The 184 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: child is crying when they're uncomfortable. They're crying when they're 185 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 2: wet and they're diaper needs changing, their crying when they 186 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 2: need to be fed. And then the rest of the time, 187 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: guess what they do. They sleep. They sleep, and they 188 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: need to be held and caressed and loved upon daily. 189 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: You know, that's the price of being a parent, and 190 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: that's what you do. But David, just and please he 191 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: hear me right that the injuries that this ten week 192 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: old child sustained. You'd mentioned a healing broken rib. First off, 193 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: to break the bone of a child at this age 194 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 2: developmentally requires a tremendous amount of force. 195 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 3: That's right, Joe, And that's what I'm really I'm asking 196 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: you to delve into something that is horrible because you 197 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 3: have explained things to me off the air about children 198 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 3: and bones and how difficult it is because you know, 199 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: God makes them so that they can come out of 200 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 3: the birth canal, and that you know it takes time 201 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: for the bones to actually become what they are later, 202 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 3: and so to break an infant's bone, to break a 203 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: ten week old baby, and again I mentioned the healing 204 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 3: part because we only know at ten weeks old when 205 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,359 Speaker 3: she ended up in the hospital, but that they discovered 206 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 3: all of these other injuries that were healing that had 207 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 3: to have taken place in the first ten weeks of 208 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 3: her life. And I'm thinking, Joe, how tough is it? 209 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 2: How much it's it's it's it's very difficult because you know, 210 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: the bones when if you look at it from the 211 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: idea that our bones kind of OSPHI obviously as we 212 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: get get older, they become more firm, you know. I 213 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: think that we're our development is such as infants like this, 214 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 2: so that if we do fall, you're not going to 215 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: sustain a fracture. All right, I'm not going to say 216 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 2: the kids bounce, But what I'm saying is like, if 217 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: I took a fall off of off of a bed 218 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: right now, there's a chance I could probably hurt my shoulder, 219 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: hurt my hip or you know, my knee or whatever 220 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: it is. It's amazing the type of force that a 221 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: young baby can sustain. Now it's going to be I'm 222 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: not saying it's not painful, but there's there's something to 223 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: be said about the the malleability, if you will, of 224 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: of the skeletal struct of a child. So when you think, well, 225 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 2: this child is in a state of healing post fracture. 226 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: And we're not just talking about a single rib fracture, Dave, 227 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: We're talking about multiple injuries. This child, Oh lord, I 228 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: hate to even say this. She had both healing fractures 229 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: and then she had acute fractures, and acute means immediate, 230 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: which means that's something that's recent. So that's an indication 231 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: perhaps of ongoing and dwelling abuse. All right, then she's 232 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: got a skull fracture, David. Let me give you an example. 233 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: And you know, for those of you with sensitive ears, 234 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: be forewarned here because in the morgue. Did you know 235 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: that when we do autopsies on little kids like this 236 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: that have you ever seen in television shows where we 237 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: use what's called a striker saw, which is a striker saws, 238 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: a bone saw. Okay, there's no need to use us all, Okay, 239 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: we don't have to use it. And when it comes 240 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: to the skull, we actually can open the skull with 241 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: a pair of scissors. That's how that's how soft the 242 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: bone is. And you know, you still have the fontenails. 243 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: There's an antior fontenail, which is you know, the one 244 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: that people most often think about that's on the front, 245 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: you know, otherwise known as a soft spot. That's where 246 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: the skull is kind of all the plates of the 247 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: skull are moving together and are fusing up there. And 248 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: you've got a post heior fintenel as well, and there 249 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: are other ones about the body, but these are the 250 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: two primary areas where they're kind of closing up I 251 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: say about the body. About the skull, there's softer areas, 252 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: you know, where the skulls are. The skulls are the 253 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: plates of the skull are kind of fusing. You've got 254 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: the frontal bone bridle and the temporal and the acceptal 255 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: and all of that. So they're very, very soft. And 256 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: the fact that the skull is in fact fractured is 257 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: mind blowing to me because the amount of force that 258 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: it would take in order to do this is is 259 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: almost I'm not gonna say it's unmeasurable, because I guess 260 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: that would be. However, she's got fractures in multiple locations. Okay, 261 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: just because you have a fractured rib doesn't mean you're 262 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: going to have a fractured skull. Generally, fractures happen at 263 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: points of impact. Okay, so if you're free falling through 264 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: space and you impact on your head, all right, it's 265 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: understandable you could have a skull fracture. I'm talking about 266 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: an adult here, But how are you going to sustain 267 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: both acute and healing fractures of the ribs? Those two things, 268 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: they they don't match up. There's a brain hemorrhage, You've 269 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: got swelling in the neck. Oh and by the bye, 270 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: there's a healing leg fracture. So now you've got this 271 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 2: kind of connected dot thing. Anatomically you cannot sustain. You 272 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: cannot sustain these types of injuries from a single event. 273 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: Maybe you could if you were in a car accident 274 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 2: something that you know, had you flying through space at 275 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 2: a high velocity, high velocity relative to as fast as 276 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: a human being can travel through through space. I don't 277 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 2: see how this could happen. And then on top of it, 278 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: they identified in Caroline nutritional deficit as well. That's deprivation, 279 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: and of course that doesn't aid the healing of injuries. 280 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, it detracts from it. Deve, 281 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 2: you introduced me to an article and I was reading 282 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: through it, and the prosecutor that's involved with a manual 283 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: horror's disappearance. First off, they suspect that he's dead. All right, 284 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: we'll go ahead and plainly say that. But one of 285 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 2: the interesting comments he made relative to this little girl 286 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: is fact that he said, well, he starts pointing the 287 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: finger at the judge in her case. Because refresh my memory, Dave, 288 00:18:54,960 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: is this accurate that this father of this little girl 289 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 2: did what thirty thirty days in county I think? And 290 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 2: then he's put on probation for how long? 291 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: It's one hundred and eighty days in county. 292 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: In Okay, So a drop in the bucket and he 293 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: didn't the DA say that if this guy, well, first off, 294 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: you said this guy should be in prison as a 295 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: result of that. And I guess if you follow that 296 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 2: logic to its conclusion, if he had been in prison, 297 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: Emmanuel will still be here. And he could not understand 298 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: the formula that the judge was using when the sentence 299 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: was handed down. 300 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. I don't know what mathematical 301 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 3: thing they use, and they being judges. I know that 302 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: state by state, county by county crimes are dealt with differently. 303 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 3: I don't know how any other adult human being on 304 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 3: the face of this earth can look at a ten 305 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 3: week old child that has been beaten within an inch 306 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 3: of their life now has permanently been scarred, and will never. 307 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: Get out of a vegetative state. 308 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 3: How you can look at the person who did it 309 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: and allow them outside of a cell. 310 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: I don't know how you can. 311 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: I don't either. As a matter of fact, if there was, 312 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: if there was an individual similar to this that had 313 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: made a decision similar to this, I would not trust 314 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: that person with my dog well, I mean it all, 315 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: to make any kind of decision, because I think that 316 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: the fact that what you're saying is is that any 317 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: other children that might be in proximity to a subject 318 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: such as Emmanuel Harrow's father, the needs of public safety 319 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: do not outweigh the needs of this individual will still 320 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: be roaming around the streets and having access to children. Period. Yeah, 321 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: you know, I mean this is this is to me. Look, 322 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,479 Speaker 2: you can't compare the two. Just let me say this. 323 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 2: If you're a convicted sex offender, you can't even live 324 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: within within I don't know certain number of feet or 325 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: yards of a schoolhouse or you know, a library or 326 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 2: all these other things. You're talking about somebody that is 327 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 2: apparently found guilty, that is adjudicated guilty, guilty for inflicting 328 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: serious bodily harm that this child will never recover from 329 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: child child's blind Yeah. 330 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: Well this is what the Riverside prosecutor said. Okay, what 331 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 3: we wanted out of the case was prison. We believed 332 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: it was a prison case and that Jake Harrow should 333 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 3: have gone to prison. Jake Harrow pled straight up to 334 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 3: the court in this case. Judge here in Riverside County, 335 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: who happened to have been a visiting judge from sam 336 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 3: Bernardino County, gave mister Harrow a suspended sentence. See, they're 337 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: trying to indicate where this, what happened and how, And 338 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 3: he says the child abuse case began with Jake Harrow's 339 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: arrest in twenty eighteen, involving his ex wife and another 340 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 3: child who was ten weeks old. Anyway, the judge, and 341 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: this is what the DA says. The DA who's prosecuting 342 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 3: the current case. Thankfully hestrin. His name's Michael Hestern. I believe, 343 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 3: he says. The judge essentially chose to give Jake Harrow 344 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 3: a probation, which he described as an outrageous, you know, 345 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 3: error in judgment. I don't call that an error in judgment. 346 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 3: You mentioned this earlier about my bad you know, it's 347 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: that kind of thing. I'm sorry he made a mistake. 348 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 3: I just say, a mistake. Man, This is not an 349 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 3: error in judgment. How does a human, how does an 350 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 3: adult look at this and call this an air in judgment. 351 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: It's not an air in judgment. It's a judge not 352 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: doing their h to protect society from somebody who would 353 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: hurt the least of these happened to be his ten 354 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 3: year old daughter, who, based on the healing wound she 355 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 3: suffered the healing broken bones. They proved had endured a 356 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 3: lifetime of abuse up to the moment that she was 357 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: finally taken away from him. When she was individual, you 358 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 3: could no longer be. 359 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: What she could be. I don't understand that. 360 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 2: I know, yeah, you know. It is not an error. 361 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: It is certainly not. And don't I don't know how 362 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: you get past that really in this particular case. Look, 363 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 2: an abuser is going to abuse, all right, That's what 364 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: they do. And they don't shift off of that, by 365 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: the way, from being a child abuser. All right, there's 366 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: no redemption, there's no turning back if they have anger 367 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 2: issues or whatever is, and there is, As you say, 368 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 2: I love the fact to use the least among us, 369 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 2: they're going to continue to abuse them and abuse a 370 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: child over and over and over again. And I got 371 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 2: to tell you, in forensics, that's what we would call 372 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: a clue because if you have this body of evidence 373 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: relative to this child and now, Dave, we have this 374 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: other sweet little boy that they're saying is deceased. I mean, 375 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 2: that's what they're saying. They believe him to be dead, 376 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 2: and Lord have mercy. I'm offering up prayers right now. 377 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 2: I hope that he is alive out there somewhere. I 378 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: truly do. But I got to tell you, man, you know, 379 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: it's like Eddie Murphy. You say, give him an inch 380 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 2: to take a mile, give him a rope to think 381 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 2: they're cowboy. And in this particular case, you know, you 382 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 2: allow him to get away with this. And now and 383 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: now you've got a child who is presumed dead, and 384 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: they still the horror of this is that they still 385 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 2: haven't found his remains anywhere. 386 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: Dave Well, can I add a couple of things here 387 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: very quickly? 388 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely right. 389 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 3: One we actually had in covering this story this week, 390 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 3: we had a rumored that not a rumor. We had 391 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 3: a report that Jake Harrow had confessed to killing the baby, 392 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 3: that he rolled over on him in his sleep, and 393 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 3: they then disposed of the child's body in a trash bag. 394 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 3: That was the story that came out this week. Then 395 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 3: it was backed up by a further report about the 396 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 3: police injecting an undercover officer into the cell with Jake 397 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 3: Harrow to get more information, where he allegedly told the 398 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: undercover more information about killing his son. Now we are 399 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 3: told that that did not take place. This was reported 400 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: as a real thing, and we did. We reported this 401 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 3: across all platforms that Jake Harrow had confessed, police saying 402 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 3: he did not confess. That's vague news. And the reason 403 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 3: that's so frustrating is that I don't know where that 404 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 3: came from, whoever said it, And there's got to be 405 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: some accountability. 406 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: But let me tell you why there has to be accountability, 407 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 2: because you let that slip out, You let that slip 408 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: out into the public discourse, and suddenly this search that 409 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 2: you have going on, many people search because they're motivated 410 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 2: by the fact as well they should be, that a 411 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: child is out there and missing and presumed alive, right, okay, 412 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: So all of a sudden you have that energy is 413 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 2: now gone from that search, okay, and now they have 414 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: fewer eyes on the case just from the public citizenry, 415 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: you know, where they're feeling motivated, they want to get 416 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 2: out there, they want to help, and then you find 417 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: out that this is in fact a lie. You're damn right. 418 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: There ought to be accountability whoever said this. And you know, 419 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: I got to tell you this is a thread that's 420 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 2: coming up over and over again a lot of the 421 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: stories that Idaho, most recently the Montak case up in 422 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 2: Long Island where they were saying, somebody actually released the 423 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 2: information that there was cocaine powder found in the salon 424 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: on the sofa in there, and it was fingerprint powder. 425 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: So I don't know where these people are getting information 426 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 2: like this, but this can be quite damning with an 427 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 2: and particularly this is an ongoing investigation into a child 428 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: that is currently missing and not accounted for. So whoever 429 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: in the world did this did a great disservice to 430 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: everybody that's invested. And I can guarantee you these law enforcement, 431 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: the fire and rescue people, the volunteers, they're invested. Man, 432 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 2: they want to find this little boy. And something has arisen, 433 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: Something has arisen that has come to the attention of 434 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 2: the DA. Because there is no DA worth their salt 435 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 2: that would stand before a bank of microphones and give 436 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: a public statement saying that a Manuel is no longer 437 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: a lie. So Dave, right now as we're speaking, there 438 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: are people combing the countryside out there looking for a manual. 439 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: And interestingly enough, a Manuel translates into God is with us, 440 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: and I hope God is with them, looking out and 441 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: you know, protecting them and guarding them and guiding their 442 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: foot steps. Along this way because this is going to 443 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: be key. And again, I hope he's alive. I truly do, Joe. 444 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: What would you expect to see in a seven month 445 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 3: old at this stage? We don't know other than what 446 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: we've been told by the family that we know is 447 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 3: all alive. But police said that we believe that he 448 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 3: could have been killed as early as August fifth, between 449 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 3: then and the time he's reported missing. So what would 450 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 3: be if we were to find the child? Now, let's 451 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: say Emmanuel had been killed on the fifth of the sixth, 452 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 3: and let's just say he was placed in a trash 453 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 3: bag and thrown away. If they were able to locate 454 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: the baby, if they were able to locate his body, 455 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: what condition would it be, And if it was just 456 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 3: placed in a trash bag and thrown out with the trash, 457 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: what are we talking about. 458 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: The composition modern state of decomposition in a trash bag 459 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: in particular, if that if that is the case, and boy, 460 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: that's Dave. That's really specific, isn't it. It's not like 461 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 2: somebody said, well, he was placed in the woods, or 462 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: he was rolled down a hill. Somebody came up with it. 463 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: That's very specific. Placed in a trash bag, and I 464 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: guess placed in the trash dependent upon how the bag 465 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: or the conveyance is handled. Let's just say that, Lord, 466 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: I hate say this, but let's just say that he 467 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: is he has been placed into His remains have been 468 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 2: placed within a trash bag into a public receptacle, and 469 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: that is going to be taken by a trash truck 470 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 2: and dumped in a landfill. Well, now you have this 471 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: really complex event that begins to take place because you're 472 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: in First off, the body is in a bag, so 473 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: that means the body is sweating as it's decomposing. It's 474 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: sweating that's going to prompt further or accelerated decomposition. He's 475 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 2: going into a very aerobic environment if it's a landfall ill, 476 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 2: which means all the other nasties that are in dwelling 477 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: out there are going to begin to attack his remains. 478 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they wouldn't attack his remains in 479 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: some other location, however, Uh, this is multiplied when you 480 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: go to a landfill, and that that's the only thing 481 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: that's really come to mind right now. But you know, 482 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: you've got a mom who sounds like if we are 483 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: to believe what she said, and this is fascinating. Did 484 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: you see somebody, what was it hit my car or 485 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: whatever it was three days earlier? 486 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: Do you have CCTV somebody in my car? 487 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody broke into my car. It's almost, David, it's 488 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: almost like she's prime in the pump at that point 489 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: in time. 490 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: You know, I have cares. 491 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, if you're she's in the 492 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 2: military and she's conducting operation uh, this is a point 493 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: of observation here, she's doing her job right. Well, that 494 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 2: means that there's some intent, maybe premeditative thing that's going 495 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: on here. Maybe she has the body. Yeah, at this 496 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: point in time, they're trying to decide. They're panicking, what 497 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: do I do with the body? Because ups, Daddy's done 498 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: it again, only this time, remember harming to Montgomery. Well, 499 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: I think I really heard her this time. You know, 500 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: after that piece of garbage hit that child and she 501 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: quote unquote went to sleep. Was she died in the 502 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 2: backseat of that Chrysler seavering in the freezing cold, and 503 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: he put her in a bag and then carted her 504 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 2: all over the place, stored her in vents up in 505 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: the ceiling, took her to work, I've just about had 506 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 2: enough at this point, Dave, I tell you they've gotten 507 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 2: one the last nerve, because these stories keep coming up 508 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: like this, and you know these babies are being treated 509 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: like garbage. I know it's gone on forever, but it's 510 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 2: just amplified for some reason. In this particular case. You 511 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: think about a manual with his remains, where are they 512 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: is it going to be possible to track? Are they 513 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: looking at his digital footprint at this point? Are they 514 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: looking at her digital footprint? The fact the fact that 515 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 2: the DA has made this kind of definitive comment at 516 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 2: this time tells me that they've got something else. And 517 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 2: when you look at child abuse, okay, one of the 518 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: primary things that comes up with child abuse cases is 519 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: abusers will do things like doctor shopping, so they'll strike 520 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 2: a kid. Kid is severely injured. They take the kid 521 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 2: to a dock in a box somewhere, or maybe to 522 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: an emergency room. Kid gets treated and the abuser says, yay, 523 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: you know, he was climbing up in the tree or 524 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: he fell down staircase. Doctor treats him. Injuries begin to resolve. 525 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 2: Remember we heard about resolving injuries in the ten week old. 526 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 2: All right, injuries begin to resolve, abuser loses their cool again, 527 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: strikes the child again, maybe this time partially chokes the 528 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 2: child out. Now we're back to doctor shopping. We can't 529 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: go back to the same physician. We've got to go 530 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: to another one, all right. So I want to know 531 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 2: if they've gotten their hands on any kind of medical 532 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: records here yet, because sometimes that's the big reveal in 533 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 2: child abuse cases. Was there somebody else that saw something 534 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 2: that no one is aware of yet and they've told 535 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: the police have told that witness be quiet. We're going 536 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 2: to use your information, but we need you to be 537 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 2: quiet at this moment, Tom please, We're begging you. Okay, 538 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 2: maybe they saw something, maybe they saw the child being 539 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 2: struck or whatever the case might be. 540 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 3: But police said that they believe they know where Emmanuel is. 541 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 3: And the fact that they say we believe we know 542 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 3: where he is but they have not retrieved his body 543 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 3: is very telling. Indicates to me that it could be 544 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 3: a landfill, and we know landfills are gritted, which again 545 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 3: goes back to decomp What are we really looking at? 546 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 3: Is there a big difference between five days in eight days, 547 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 3: four days and nine days? 548 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well yeah, And it's a it's a steady progression. 549 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 2: It never that's the thing about it. Once it starts it, 550 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 2: you don't retard it in any way. It's it's not 551 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: it's not ceasing it. You know, biology continues to creep on. 552 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 2: It's you know, it's you can't stem it in any way. 553 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 2: You know. You say, well, you can put a body 554 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 2: in a cooler and it will possibly retard the progression 555 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: of decomposition. But spacey's not a cooler, all right, it's somewhere. 556 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 2: This body is somewhere exposed to the element. So, going 557 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 2: back to what I said previously, if if body is 558 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 2: in a landfill, this progression is going to speed up 559 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 2: because of this hostile environment that the body would be in. 560 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: And yet there's going to be a heck of a 561 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 2: lot of difference. And here's another thing. In landfills, you 562 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: have this this specter of heavy equipment. And with the 563 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 2: heavy equipment, one of the things that has to happen 564 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 2: is that you know, we talk about grids in landfills, 565 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: and the people that operate these things know exactly where 566 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 2: things are going to be deposited, and they don't keep 567 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 2: redepositing in those locations. They deposit, they fill whatever their 568 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 2: quote is for that space in square yards or square 569 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 2: meters or whatever it is. Then they move to the 570 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 2: next grid. Well, in the meantime, you've got heavy equipment 571 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 2: that runs back and forth over the top. You've ever 572 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 2: seen those those steel wheeled big pieces of equipment, usually 573 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 2: looks like at a pillar. They've got these large spikes 574 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: on the on. They're not tires, they're actually wheels, and 575 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 2: so they're kind of churning this thing and pressing it down, 576 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 2: so it stratifies it. It presses it down, it stratifies it, 577 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: and then you come back if it's time for that 578 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: grid again, you put more trash on top of it. 579 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 2: That's why of these things are so daunting. Not to mention, 580 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 2: you've got animal activity in these locations. You've got insect activity. 581 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 2: I'm talking about big animals you know, can get in there, 582 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: and then you have in you know, if you've got 583 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 2: the remains of a you know, a decomposing child, it 584 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 2: gets really horrific, really really quickly. And this is this 585 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: is one of the concerns, and I think that the 586 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 2: police have expressed this already. You're going to have to 587 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: have a to really nail this thing down from proscutorial standpoint, 588 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 2: You're going to have to have a cause of death. 589 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 2: You know, you we hear a lot about the user 590 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 2: terminal's term, Dave nonspecific comicidal trauma. You'll hear that a lot. 591 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 2: But it's going to be really important to try to 592 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 2: demonstrate this, and the longer a body is decomposing, the 593 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 2: more difficult that becomes. Well, first off, I hope he's 594 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 2: not decomposing. I hope that I would rather have seen 595 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 2: him picked up by somebody and they're holding him safely 596 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 2: and providing for him than any of the stuff that 597 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 2: we're talking about. But right now, given history that you 598 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 2: know we've been discussing, I'm not real hopeful at this 599 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 2: point in Tom Dave. 600 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 3: You know, Joe, if okay, if Emmanuel Harrow is found, 601 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 3: if that's then unless if he has found deceased, are 602 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 3: they being law enforcement? Are they going to be able 603 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 3: to prove that his death was caused at the hands 604 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 3: of his parents because her story is that I was hit, 605 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 3: he was snatched. Well, their argument could be he was 606 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 3: snatched when the bad guys saw it covered on TV, 607 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 3: they killed him and threw them in. You know, they 608 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 3: did that the bad guys did it. I'm the victim. 609 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 3: My baby was stolen from me. How do you approve 610 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 3: you've got his You have this seven month old baby 611 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 3: who's dad. How do you approve that they're the ones 612 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 3: that killed him? 613 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 2: Again, That's how digital evidence is going to play into this, 614 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 2: because it's not just going to be the phone's pinging 615 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: in various locations. It's also going to be CCTV. You're 616 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: going to have to go back to that central point 617 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: where they're domiciled, and if they're CCTV available in those locations, 618 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 2: you have to go back to the last time he 619 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 2: was known to be alive and gather all of that 620 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 2: footage that you possibly can and have somebody work their 621 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 2: way through it so that they can see these vehicles 622 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 2: where they're going, they're comings and goings. And I think, 623 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, California has license plate readers out 624 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 2: there as well. If they're passing by those cameras, how 625 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,359 Speaker 2: many times do they hit on the camera? You know, 626 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 2: where are they're going, where they're up to And then 627 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 2: of course you got the phone pinging as well. That's 628 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 2: what it's going to come down to, you know, And 629 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 2: if and when they find his remains, can you place 630 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 2: their vehicle or even them at that site in particular? 631 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 2: And also is this a site that they're familiar with? Now? 632 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 2: The red herring here is if it does turn out 633 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 2: where this baby has been a homicide victim, they place 634 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 2: him in a bag and he's placed into a trash receptacle, 635 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 2: then the parents are probably not prone to go to 636 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 2: a landfill. The truck goes to a landfill, but then 637 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 2: you track the truck, what truck was running on these days, 638 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 2: and did they pick up from trash bins that these 639 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 2: individuals may have had access to. It's highly complex, and 640 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 2: it's not just going to be the one thing. It's 641 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 2: going to be a combination of multiple things that's going 642 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 2: to bring this thing to a resolution. And I hope, 643 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 2: you know, look, it's kind of rote to say this. 644 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 2: I hope it is in fact sooner than later, because 645 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 2: right now, I mean, people have lots of questions and 646 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 2: no answers at all. It seems as though to me, 647 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 2: at least, that the police have more information than they're 648 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 2: letting on. And I'm glad that they do, and I 649 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 2: hope that they don't let it out. I truly am 650 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: until they can, in fact, they can in fact find 651 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 2: his remains, take them and have them examined thoroughly, and 652 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 2: I mean thoroughly, and document everything I can. And you're 653 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 2: going to have to have a skilled forensic pathologist that 654 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 2: can delineate, like you said, from post mortem changes and 655 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 2: anti mortem trauma. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 656 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 2: Bodybacks