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Speaker 1: La Latino Usa listener.

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Speaker 2: So today we're gonna continue our look back at thirty

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Speaker 2: years of pretty impactful journalism by the team at Latino USA.

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Speaker 2: This week we're gonna air Gangs, Murder and Migration in Honduras.

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Speaker 2: Our piece first aired in twenty fourteen and it would

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Speaker 2: go on to win a Peabody Award and.

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Speaker 1: Dear listener, in this episode, there is a mention of

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Speaker 1: an incident of sexual violence.

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Speaker 2: Just so you know, from Futuro Media and PRX it's

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Speaker 2: Latino USA I Maria no Posa. Today we're taking you

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Speaker 2: to Hoduras to take a deep dive into the roots

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Speaker 2: of migration to the United States. So many miners are

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Speaker 2: deported to Honduras these days that there's a special compound

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Speaker 2: that was built us to receive them. It's in San

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Speaker 2: Pedro Sula, made up of a few buildings surrounded by

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Speaker 2: a big red wall. Outside that wall, it's a pretty

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Speaker 2: festive scene. It's Friday afternoon and a bus full of

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Speaker 2: deep porties from Mexico just came in. Their family members

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Speaker 2: wait outside to pick them up. Jose Ernandez is there.

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Speaker 2: He holds a single light blue balloon and wears a

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Speaker 2: pressed shirt, looking like he belongs at a baby shower

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Speaker 2: by Jose is here to pick up his wife and kids.

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Speaker 2: Just fifteen days ago. He waved goodbye to them as

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Speaker 2: they took off on a journey north towards the United States.

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Speaker 2: It They made it pretty far through Guatemala, about halfway

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Speaker 2: through Mexico, but eventually they were stopped by La Migra

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Speaker 2: and sent back. The door of the compound opens and

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Speaker 2: Jose's kids rush into his arms. Jose gives his two

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Speaker 2: year old son the balloon and kisses him on the

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Speaker 2: cheek repeatedly. The kid is crying, but you can't blame him.

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Speaker 2: He's had a big day, Ail, says.

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Speaker 1: Five year old daughter.

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Speaker 2: Abigail is asked why she wanted to leave Honduras.

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't, she says.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to stay here with my puppy. He makes

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Speaker 2: me very happy, says Jose, to have them back. He's

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Speaker 2: visibly emotional. They leave and then you don't know if

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Speaker 2: you're ever going to see them again. But for Jose

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Speaker 2: and all the families here, the reunions are bittersweet. Everybody's

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Speaker 2: happy to be back together, but they're disappointed too, after

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Speaker 2: taking such a big bet, risking their lives and their savings.

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Speaker 2: They're disappointed to be back in Honduras, back where they

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Speaker 2: started instead of starting a new life in the United States.

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Speaker 2: And what they're coming back to, well, it can be complicated.

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Speaker 2: Remember the kids that were showing up at the border

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Speaker 2: this summer, more came from Honduras than any other country,

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Speaker 2: eighteen thousand of them.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just kids.

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Speaker 2: More and more Hondurans of all ages are leaving their

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Speaker 2: homes and risking everything for a chance to reach the

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Speaker 2: United States. Today, we're going to spend an hour asking

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Speaker 2: why what's happening in Honduras right now that's causing so

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Speaker 2: many people to leave. Our producer Marlon Bishop recently visited

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Speaker 2: Honduras to help us figure out the answer. Hey Marlon,

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Speaker 2: we are so glad that you're back and safe.

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Speaker 3: Hey Maria, it's good to be back here.

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Speaker 2: So you had never really spent a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 2: time in Honduras doing deep reporting.

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Speaker 1: You went down spent several weeks. So what did you

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Speaker 1: find out?

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Speaker 3: Well, I spent a few weeks traveling around Honduras. I

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Speaker 3: was meeting with journalists, officials, all sorts of people, and

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Speaker 3: my goal was to try to understand what is this

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Speaker 3: sense of crisis that was happening in Honduras right now,

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Speaker 3: and kind of the first thing that you notice really

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Speaker 3: is that when you talk to people, almost everyone you

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Speaker 3: speak to has this really close relationship with homicide, with murder,

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Speaker 3: because almost everyone has someone close to them that's been murdered.

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Speaker 3: And that's because the murder rate in Honduras is so high.

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Speaker 3: It's the highest in the world.

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Speaker 2: So how how high is it to have to be

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Speaker 2: the murder capital of the world.

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Speaker 3: The murder rate is almost one in every one thousand people.

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Speaker 3: To give you a sense, that's twice as high as

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Speaker 3: the country with the second highest murder rate in the world,

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Speaker 3: which is Venezuela. It is literally on a different scale.

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Speaker 1: But here's what I don't understand.

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Speaker 2: Because it's part of this region, Central America, but it

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Speaker 2: has a different experience on Dura's does. So historically, how

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Speaker 2: does Honduras end up like this?

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Speaker 3: Well? I wanted to know that too, so I called

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Speaker 3: up a guy named Eric Olsen, a Central America expert

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Speaker 3: who works at the Woodrow Wilson Institute, and he told

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Speaker 3: me that the story actually starts with bananas.

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Speaker 4: There's no question that the fruit companies and the US

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Speaker 4: embassy in Teguciganpa, the capitol played in an outside role

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Speaker 4: in deciding on the future of the country.

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Speaker 1: We're talking like what like dol chiquita banana exactly.

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Speaker 3: In fact, the original companies behind those two brands, Standard

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Speaker 3: Fruit and United Fruit were the dominant players in the

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Speaker 3: Hunduran economy for a really long time. They owned a

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Speaker 3: huge percentage of the country's land and often treated Honduras

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Speaker 3: as if it was their personal fiefdom or something. In fact,

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Speaker 3: Honduras is one of the countries that gave us the

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Speaker 3: stereotype of the Banana Republic. At times, the companies literally

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Speaker 3: ran the country.

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Speaker 4: One of the lawyers for the fruit companies became president

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Speaker 4: in nineteen fifty four. At a critical moment.

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Speaker 3: Olson told me that as a result, the country basically

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Speaker 3: served the fruit industry and Honduras never had the chance

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Speaker 3: to develop a modern economy. Then, on top of that,

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Speaker 3: there are the oligarchs.

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Speaker 2: So oligarchs like elite families that like essentially the country.

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Speaker 4: A handful of families not only are major outsize economic powers,

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Speaker 4: but also own newspapers, radio stations, also bank ro political parties.

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Speaker 3: Honduras is one of the top ten most unequal countries

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Speaker 3: in the world. All the time while I was there,

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Speaker 3: I heard about these thirteen families that basically run everything.

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Speaker 3: The US supported this oligarchy for a really long time

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Speaker 3: because they oppost communism, and that used to be a

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Speaker 3: big thing. Today, they basically run the economy to meet

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Speaker 3: their needs, not the people's.

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Speaker 2: So when the economy is weak, of course, it's very

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Speaker 2: hard to have really strong and healthy government institutions.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't have strong police, it doesn't have strong courts

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Speaker 4: or justice system. It's education system as weak, it's healthcare system.

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Speaker 4: Because it's agencies of government are weak, the ability of

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Speaker 4: the country to resist against criminal organizations is quite limited.

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Speaker 2: So from Afar, it really sounds pretty bleak. But did

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Speaker 2: it feel that way to you on the ground with

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Speaker 2: the people of Honduras.

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Speaker 3: Well, Honduras is definitely in a very tough situation, there's

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Speaker 3: no way around that. But I often found myself feeling

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Speaker 3: really inspired while I was there by these kind of

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Speaker 3: amazing displays of bravery that I would see. For example,

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Speaker 3: these journalists that I was working with, they would receive

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Speaker 3: death threats all the time, and still they would get

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Speaker 3: up and go out and report the news and try

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Speaker 3: to make Honduras a better place, you know. And I

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Speaker 3: saw this kind of bravery all the time, from you know,

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Speaker 3: an ex gang member working to help kids find a

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Speaker 3: better path, to a fifteen year old kid leaving his

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Speaker 3: whole world behind immigrate to the United States so he

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Speaker 3: could support his family. I mean, just imagine doing that.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty extraordinary. So, Marlin, in order to figure out

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Speaker 2: what the root of the problem was behind all of this,

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Speaker 2: oftentimes it said, you've got to go to the money.

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Speaker 2: And so that's where we're going to go right now.

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Speaker 2: And weirdly enough, Marlin, you're going to take us there

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Speaker 2: by going to a bus station.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, a bus station into Gooseygappa, the capital

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Speaker 3: of Honduras, and Tagusigappa. Buses are privately owned, so if

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Speaker 3: you want to start a bus company, you just have

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Speaker 3: to buy a bus, find a route that people want

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Speaker 3: to take, and congratulations, you are now a bus company.

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Speaker 3: It's a pretty straightforward business. You pay your driver, pay

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Speaker 3: for gas, collect fares from the passengers. But there's this

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Speaker 3: one cost you wouldn't expect. Every once in a while,

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Speaker 3: when your bus is stopped at an intersection, a kid

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Speaker 3: will come up to the bus, knock on the window,

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Speaker 3: and hand the driver a cell phone. The owner of

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Speaker 3: a bus company explained it to me, but we won't

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Speaker 3: be using his name because of who is on the

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Speaker 3: other end of that phone call. The voice on the

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Speaker 3: phone says, Hi, I'm calling from such and such a gang,

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Speaker 3: and if you want to keep driving this route, you

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Speaker 3: have to pay us a certain amount of money or else.

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Speaker 3: This is known as paying your rent. These days, the

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Speaker 3: bus owner has five different gangs extorting him, and this

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Speaker 3: has become a totally normal thing for him. Every week,

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Speaker 3: he collects money from all his drivers, puts it into

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Speaker 3: envelopes neatly marked with the names of each gang, and

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Speaker 3: he sends a trusted worker to hand him the cash.

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Speaker 3: It says, routine is paying an energy bill, except the

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Speaker 3: difference is in this case, all you get in return

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Speaker 3: for your money is not getting killed. This is how

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Speaker 3: gangs and hunduras make most of their money, not from

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Speaker 3: drugs or prostitution or anything like that. The name of

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Speaker 3: the game is extortion. That's the economic machine that keeps

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Speaker 3: the gangs alive. Now, shaking down bus drivers might seem

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Speaker 3: like a small time hustle, but it adds up to

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Speaker 3: a lot of money altogether. There's probably a few million

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Speaker 3: dollars coming out of working people's paychecks every month into

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Speaker 3: Goosy Goappa and going into the pockets of gang members.

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Speaker 3: Money that is desperately needed. But the question is how

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Speaker 3: did Hunteras become a place where a bus owner has

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Speaker 3: to pay extortion to five gangs every week. While I

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Speaker 3: was in Hunduras, I met a guy who was there

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Speaker 3: from the beginning, an ex gang member. He had me

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Speaker 3: meet him at this bakery and me up four flights

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Speaker 3: of stairs in this empty building, I guess, so he

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Speaker 3: could talk where nobody would hear him. About twenty years ago,

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Speaker 3: he joined a gang called MS thirteen, or as it's

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Speaker 3: known in Honduras. Es now you might have heard of m.

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Speaker 3: S thirteen. The gang is originally from la In the nineties,

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Speaker 3: US officials started aggressively deporting undocumented gang members back to

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Speaker 3: their home countries. As a result, the gang set up

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Speaker 3: shop in Central America peruinilmente. Okay, so it's the nineties

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Speaker 3: and gangs are still a relatively new thing in Honduras.

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Speaker 3: The ex gang member I spoke to and his friends

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Speaker 3: are like, we need to figure out how to make

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Speaker 3: some money. So they stand on a street corner looking

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Speaker 3: scary and say, hey, give me some money to the

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Speaker 3: people in the neighborhood. He says he could stand on

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Speaker 3: the corner between five and seven in the evening and

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Speaker 3: make ten bucks enough to buy some wheat and a

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Speaker 3: snack for after. He says the rationale behind extorting his

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Speaker 3: neighbors was this the streets their mind. So anyone who

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Speaker 3: is using that, a guy walking down the street, a vendor, whoever,

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Speaker 3: they're using something that's mine, so they have to rent

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Speaker 3: them from me.

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Speaker 5: Jo.

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Speaker 3: In the next few years, Ms thirteen starts getting into

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Speaker 3: more serious crimes. They're leaving the neighborhood and committing robberies,

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Speaker 3: stealing cars, even kidnapping people and holding them for ransom.

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Speaker 3: But soon the government starts to push back, starts throwing

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Speaker 3: gang members in jail as fast as they can. So

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Speaker 3: you have this gang that's used to bring in lots

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Speaker 3: of money by roaming around committing these crimes. Now the

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Speaker 3: government is making that harder, okay, But then somebody in

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Speaker 3: the gang has this brilliant insight, you don't have to

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Speaker 3: go around robbing and stealing. You can stay put in

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Speaker 3: your neighborhood and the money will come to you. It

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Speaker 3: will literally come rolling down your block on wheels. You

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Speaker 3: can start extorting the bus companies and it worked. M

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Speaker 3: S thirteen was making good money this way and keeping

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Speaker 3: its members out of jail. But if you're running a

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Speaker 3: successful business for long enough, somebody is going to come

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Speaker 3: along and break up your monopoly. And in the next

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Speaker 3: few years, lots of other gangs get into the same business.

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Speaker 3: You even start getting these freelance extorters, people who aren't

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Speaker 3: affiliated with any gang at all. They just go through

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Speaker 3: the phone book, threatening random people in the hopes they'll

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Speaker 3: scare somebody into giving them money.

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Speaker 6: Yes for complete, complete.

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Speaker 3: And just like that, no more monopoly. And that made

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Speaker 3: things more complicated.

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Speaker 7: Okay, monopolon.

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Speaker 1: Coming up? What happens to extortion when more gangs.

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Speaker 2: Come into the picture? Stay with us, No say why

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Speaker 2: I am. Welcome back to this special edition of Latino USA.

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Speaker 2: On today's show, we're taking a deep look at root

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Speaker 2: causes of migration in Honduras. One of those causes is

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Speaker 2: the extortion business that powers the local gangs. MS thirteen

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Speaker 2: was the first gang to start extorting bus and taxi

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Speaker 2: drivers calling them up and threatening to kill them if

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Speaker 2: they don't pay. When we left off, more and more

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Speaker 2: gangs were getting into the extortion business. Here's our producer again,

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Speaker 2: Marlon Bishop.

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Speaker 3: By the mid two thousands, lots of gangs were trying

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Speaker 3: to break into the extortion busines business. But before a

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Speaker 3: gang can get away with charging extortion, it has to

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Speaker 3: prove that it is a legitimately scary gang. You could say,

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Speaker 3: it has to advertise. I visited a guy who experienced

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Speaker 3: this firsthand. Like the other people in this story, he

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Speaker 3: asked us not to use his name to protect his safety.

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Speaker 3: I visited this person at a cinder block house up

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Speaker 3: in the hills of Tagusigalpa. We sat at his kitchen

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Speaker 3: table and he told me his story. For twenty eight years,

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Speaker 3: he drove a taxi one day last year. The taxi

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Speaker 3: driver says he was driving his route when the gangs

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Speaker 3: came for him. You'll hear a translation here, but left from.

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Speaker 6: First. They tried to leave a cell phone with me.

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Speaker 8: They don't want to take it, but this girl gave

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Speaker 8: it to me.

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Speaker 6: I put it to my ear and they said, we're

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Speaker 6: calling from La Mafia.

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Speaker 3: La Mafia. Translation, the Mafia is a relatively new gang

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Speaker 3: into Goosy.

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Speaker 6: Galpa left and I said, no, I don't have anything

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Speaker 6: to talk to you. Boom. I threw the phone back

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Speaker 6: at the girl.

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Speaker 3: His thinking was, I already pay extortion to all of

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Speaker 3: these gangs. If I don't give these new guys a

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Speaker 3: chance to talk to me, they can't extort me. Then

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Speaker 3: a week goes by.

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Speaker 6: It's like one in the afternoon.

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Speaker 8: I was parking my car and when I looked in

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Speaker 8: the mirror to look behind me to see if there

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Speaker 8: was another car coming, I saw this tough looking guy

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Speaker 8: coming towards me.

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Speaker 6: He puts the gun to my head.

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Speaker 3: The gun backfired twice.

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Speaker 6: I threw myself out of the car and I ran

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Speaker 6: after the guy.

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Speaker 8: He slipped into the market and I didn't want to

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Speaker 8: follow him after that.

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Speaker 3: The next day he couldn't bring himself to get back

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Speaker 3: into his cab. For a long time after the Botch shooting,

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Speaker 3: he didn't even leave his house, And even now, more

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Speaker 3: than a year later, he's still clearly on edge.

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Speaker 6: Anymore.

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Speaker 8: There's no respect for anybody. It's going to get to

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Speaker 8: the point where it's like the Wild West. If you

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Speaker 8: want somebody to respect you right, you have to walk

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Speaker 8: around with a gun in your hand.

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Speaker 3: Just a week after the taxi drivers near miss, one

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Speaker 3: of his co workers on the same route was gunned down.

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Speaker 3: And this happens all the time. This year alone, more

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Speaker 3: than forty bus drivers into Gooseygappa were murdered. And that's

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Speaker 3: just the bus drivers. Since twenty twelve, more than two

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Speaker 3: hundred taxi drivers have been killed. And it's not just murders.

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Speaker 3: When Los Chidisos, one of the newer gangs, got started,

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Speaker 3: they decided they needed to stand out, so they started

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Speaker 3: hijacking buses and setting them on fire, once or twice

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Speaker 3: with the driver inside the bus. You might think that

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Speaker 3: killing the people that pay you every week isn't such

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Speaker 3: a good business move, but it actually ends up working

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Speaker 3: in the gang's favor. Sometimes. That's because the scarier you are,

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Speaker 3: the more you can get away with charging in extortion money.

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Speaker 3: Ever since the bus burnings, Los Chernisos get higher extortion

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Speaker 3: fees than almost any other gang. This is probably a

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Speaker 3: good place to mention that it's not just the bus

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Speaker 3: and taxi drivers being extorted these days. It's the women

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Speaker 3: in the market selling clothes, the auto shops. Everybody you

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Speaker 3: can think of. There are reports of even lawyers and

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Speaker 3: politicians being extorted, and I heard of at least one

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Speaker 3: plastic surgeon who had to pay up. It's no surprise

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Speaker 3: that this is a major drag on the economy. The

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Speaker 3: Tagusigappa Chamber of Commerce estimates that eighteen thousand businesses have

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Speaker 3: closed in Honduras because of extortion. I spoke to another

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Speaker 3: taxi driver, a younger guy in his twenties, who also

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Speaker 3: says he stopped working because of extortion. I have kids,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to die and leave them alone,

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Speaker 3: he says, matter of factly, it's just too dangerous, and

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Speaker 3: there is a whole nation of people like this taxi driver,

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Speaker 3: people who aren't contributing to the economy because of extortion.

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Speaker 3: Think about it. It doesn't make a lot of sense

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Speaker 3: to invest or open a business if the end result

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Speaker 3: is that you're just going to be extorted and possibly killed.

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Speaker 3: The government, of course, knows extortion is a major problem.

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Speaker 3: They recently launched this special anti extortion task Force to

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Speaker 3: try to deal with it. They actually made some arrests.

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Speaker 3: While I was in town. They were having a press

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Speaker 3: conference and I decided to go a government pr lady

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Speaker 3: stood up in front of the reporters and read a

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Speaker 3: long press release. Police wearing ski masks hauled out a

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Speaker 3: few people in handcuffs, and they did not look like

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Speaker 3: gang kingpins. There was a fifteen year old boy, a

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Speaker 3: nineteen year old woman. They looked more like scared kids.

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Speaker 3: These were basically low level employees who picked up envelopes

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Speaker 3: of cash for the gangs. The former taxi driver I

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Speaker 3: spoke with who almost got shot, he says, these kinds

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Speaker 3: of press conferences are on TV all the time these days.

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Speaker 3: He says, the police always say that they got this

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Speaker 3: guy or they got that guy, but it's just a

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Speaker 3: facade to give hope to the people that something is

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Speaker 3: going to change, but that's impossible. He adds, this is

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Speaker 3: the ex gang member we heard from earlier, and he

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Speaker 3: doesn't buy it either. He says that the police are

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Speaker 3: missing the point entirely, which is the total lack of

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Speaker 3: opportunities for young people from rough neighborhoods. Since he left

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Speaker 3: MS thirteen, he works to try and prevent young people

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Speaker 3: from falling into the gang life, but he says it's

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Speaker 3: hard because in many cases, the gang is the only

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Speaker 3: employer in town. He says, you see it all the time.

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Speaker 3: A whole family will be able to put food on

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Speaker 3: the table because of the kid who got involved with

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Speaker 3: the gang. The family might lie to themselves, pretend they

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Speaker 3: don't know where the money came from because they don't

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Speaker 3: want to see their child as a criminal, but at

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Speaker 3: the same time they rely on him and the money

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Speaker 3: the gang brings in. On my last day in Teguzigappa,

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Speaker 3: I went to the opening of a new bus station.

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Speaker 3: It was part of a government pushed to make the

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Speaker 3: buses safer. It has walls and an exit guarded by

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Speaker 3: a man with a very large weapon. A few hundred

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Speaker 3: members of the transport industry were there. There were speeches

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Speaker 3: and a polite audience. The bus owner we heard from

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Speaker 3: before he was there. He said the new safe bus

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Speaker 3: station is a nice idea, but he guarantees that by Monday,

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Speaker 3: the gang members will be inside the gates, and on Wednesday,

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Speaker 3: like he does every Wednesday, he'll slip some bills into

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Speaker 3: neatly marked envelopes and pay his rent.

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Speaker 2: That's Latino USA producer Marlon Bishop. Marlin's story on extortion

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Speaker 2: in Honduras was produced in association with Round Earth Media

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Speaker 2: Hermanandino contributed to reporting. The extortion and gang violence we've

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Speaker 2: been talking about has compelled many Hondurans to flee the

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Speaker 2: country towards the US. That means going through Watemala and

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Speaker 2: then Mexico.

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Speaker 9: Hondurans are among the most visible and the most vulnerable

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Speaker 9: migrants on the migrant trail.

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Speaker 2: That's Noel Brigden from Marquette University. She studied Central American migration,

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Speaker 2: and she says that Honduras has a different migration history

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Speaker 2: than other countries in the region. Watermalans and Salvadorans began

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Speaker 2: coming to the US in the eighties as refugees from

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Speaker 2: their respective civil wars, but Honduras didn't have a war.

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Speaker 9: Honduran migration begins in mass in nineteen ninety eight following

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Speaker 9: Hurricane Mitch. As you have people being pushed in the

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Speaker 9: wake of an environmental disaster. Sato Istruda sincernament.

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Speaker 3: The water took everything.

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Speaker 6: This woman says, now we are staying in the streets.

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Speaker 2: Since their migration history is so recent, it means that

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Speaker 2: Hondurans are the least experienced in making the dangerous way

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Speaker 2: north through Mexico. Noere says that changes how they travel.

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Speaker 9: Hondurans are much more likely to use the Catholic shelters

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Speaker 9: along the way than Salvadorans and Guatemalans, the sign of

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Speaker 9: their desperation as they travel.

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Speaker 2: Migrant shelters are often found along the path of La Vestia,

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Speaker 2: the freight train used by many Central Americans trying to

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Speaker 2: reach the US. The shelters provide a safe place to rest,

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Speaker 2: to eat, and shower. Migrants tend to stay a day

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Speaker 2: or two at each shelter, but the most vulnerable, such

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Speaker 2: as women and children or injured, stay longer. For them,

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Speaker 2: these modest shelters have become a temporary home. Maria inesa

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Speaker 2: Mulio takes us inside one shelter in Tenosiki, a city

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Speaker 2: just north of the Watermelon border.

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Speaker 5: They run to catch up for a train that will

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Speaker 5: take them closer to their dream. Central American migrants jump

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Speaker 5: on top of Labistia. Once they find a spot to sit,

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Speaker 5: they cheer, and they say goodbye to the friends they've

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Speaker 5: made here in Tenosike. It's a scene that's repeated across Mexico.

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Speaker 5: As the sun sets and the sound of the train

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Speaker 5: fades into the distance, the migrants shelter quiets down.

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Speaker 6: As question names in America.

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Speaker 5: That's Prist Thomas Gonzales, who runs the shelter, which is

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Speaker 5: funded by the Catholic Church. The situation in Central America

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Speaker 5: is truly dramatic, he says. Human beings are suffering a

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Speaker 5: great tragedy and the traffic through Mexico has turned into hell.

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Speaker 5: He says, our commitment is to be here and help them,

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Speaker 5: even if it's only to make their trip a little easier.

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Speaker 5: The shelter is named Las or the seventy two, after

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Speaker 5: the seventy two Central American migrants who were killed and

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Speaker 5: buried in a mass grave in northern Mexico in twenty ten.

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Speaker 5: That painful history is reflected in a large mural hanging

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Speaker 5: on the wall. It shows a map of the country,

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Speaker 5: highlighting the path of La Vestia and the shelters along

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Speaker 5: the way. It also warns migrants about the dangers, showing

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Speaker 5: which states are controlled by which drug cartels. The cartels

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Speaker 5: migrants have become merchandise they can trade or sell to

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Speaker 5: get whatever amount of money they want. Father Tomas says,

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Speaker 5: there's a small infirmary in a courtyard here with tables

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Speaker 5: in a basketball court. The men sleep inside a church

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Speaker 5: while their dorm is under construction. The women live in

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Speaker 5: a modest room filled with gym matts where they sleep.

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Speaker 5: Most stay indoors out of the unforgiving sun. Men are

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Speaker 5: not allowed here. This is the only space where the

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Speaker 5: women feel safe from the dangers of this journey. Jacintha,

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Speaker 5: a mother of two, says she escaped her abusive husband

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Speaker 5: and Honduras here in the Nousike. She's looking for work

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Speaker 5: to finance the rest of her trip. She says she

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Speaker 5: was fired from a job cooking and cleaning at a

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Speaker 5: restaurant because she's black. The owner called me on the

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Speaker 5: phone and said, Morena, I do want to have you

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Speaker 5: here working with us, but the other employees don't. She says,

436
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 5: I felt my heart tightening and I said wow. But

437
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 5: I said okay, don't worry, and I walked away. But

438
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 5: despite the setbacks these women face every day, somehow they

439
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 5: manage to support each other and even help each other smile.

440
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 5: Raina is a single mother traveling with her twelve year

441
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 5: old son. She sits on the concrete floor talking to

442
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 5: the other women. She tells them that she wants to

443
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 5: practice her English, but the only word she knows is yes.

444
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 5: She uses this to describe the things she wants to

445
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 5: buy in the US.

446
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 7: Just go sa Yes, Yes, I want.

447
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 5: A lot of things. Yes, she says, I want a

448
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 5: two story house. Yes, I want a car. Yes, I

449
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 5: want a handsome husband. Yes, I'll find him and make

450
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 5: him marry.

451
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 9: Yes. Yes.

452
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 5: The rest of the women left uncontrollably, and Rayna mumbles,

453
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 5: I think being here is driving measy, but Jacinta says

454
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 5: it's crucial to keep a good sense of humor, otherwise

455
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 5: the sadness takes overistic It's not easy. I can joke

456
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 5: around with the other women, but I also cry every day.

457
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 5: It's not easy being here, she says. For Latino Usa,

458
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 5: I am Marinessa Morio and Tenosque Mexico.

459
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: For an extended version of Maria's piece on migrant shelters,

460
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: visit us on the web at latinousa dot org. For migrants,

461
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: like the women we just heard from, traveling through Mexico

462
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 2: has become extremely dangerous. Here's Noel Brigden from Marquette University.

463
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: Once again.

464
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 9: Since two thousand and five, there's been an explosion of

465
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 9: organized and systemic criminal violence against migrants crossing Mexico.

466
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: Migrant rights groups in Mexico estimate that since two thousand

467
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: and six, anywhere between seventy and one hundred thousand Central

468
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: Americans have disappeared in Mexico. Despite the risks of the journey,

469
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: the number of Central Americans traveling through the country, especially

470
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: hunt Durans, has been climbing for the last four years.

471
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, the Mexican Immigration Institute counted more than

472
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: eighty thousand Central American migrants, and those are just the

473
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: ones who got caught. Those who are caught in transit

474
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: are almost always deported home.

475
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: Now.

476
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: In the US, if you're not at or near the border,

477
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: an immigration hearing is required before you can be deported.

478
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: In Mexico, you're automatically deported if you're caught anywhere in

479
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: the country, no trial, no nothing.

480
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 9: It's been a sort of unprecedented increase in the enforcement

481
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 9: of immigration laws, so that you've had raid. There's also

482
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 9: talk of improving the train infrastructure such that it becomes

483
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 9: more difficult for migrants to get on the train. That

484
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 9: includes resting barriers and making sure that the train moves

485
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 9: more quickly.

486
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: Last year, Mexico deported thirty two thousand Hondurans, almost as

487
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: many as were deported by the US last year. This summer,

488
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: under pressure from the United States, Mexico made a plan

489
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: that could mean even more deportations in Mexico.

490
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 6: Estamos from mencidos.

491
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 7: The keel fenomeno Migrado de zula Prospectiva Regional corresponsively is

492
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 7: obreto doo mana pro tambien.

493
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: In July, President Enrique Peanieto launched Plan Frontera suit, a

494
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: southern border security strategy. The plan will reportedly receive American

495
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: funding through the Medida Initiative, an anti drug military aid package.

496
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: It calls for tougher immigration controls both at the border

497
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: with Watemala and beyond. A major part of the plan

498
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: is about limiting access to Labestia the train traveling north,

499
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: but Noel Brigden says the plan is flawed.

500
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 9: Despite the fact that this plan tour is being justified

501
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 9: by the Mexican government as a sort of humanitarian intervention,

502
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 9: there is a complete consensus among human rights activists that

503
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 9: this is detrimental to the security of the migrants themselves.

504
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: Because of the changes of Plan Frontera SUD a fraction

505
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: of the migrants that used to write la Vestia are

506
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: able to write it now and that's changed the roots

507
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: migrants are taking north. Coming up, we find out how

508
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: the new border plan is affecting migrants and what happens

509
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: to the kids that.

510
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: Are sent back.

511
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 7: Apparently didn't make it, so it was pretty much like

512
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 7: a road tree for him. But I'm glad they okay,

513
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,479
Speaker 7: good health and everything.

514
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: Stay with us.

515
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: No say I am.

516
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: Ye, maybe.

517
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: Lose.

518
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 6: Let me say my need, my wonder.

519
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: That I didn't by.

520
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: Welcome back to this special edition of Latino USA. I'm

521
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: Mariano Rosa, and today we're talking about violence and migration

522
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: in Honduras.

523
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 9: Now.

524
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: Just a little earlier, we were discussing how the Mexican

525
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: government has been trying to make it harder for Central

526
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: American migrants to travel north through their country. But as

527
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: Jasmine Guards reports, that can mean it's even more dangerous

528
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: now for migrants who do make it into Mexico. Just

529
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: a quick note for the safety of some of the

530
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: people in this story who are fleeing domestic violence, we've

531
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: withheld their names.

532
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 10: This is not the first time this Hondan woman has

533
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 10: tried to run away mine.

534
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 11: My husband beat me, Lasia. I couldn't stand that he

535
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 11: did it in front of our kids.

536
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 12: Miantos.

537
00:32:58,920 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 13: Of course, I may well be.

538
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 10: She left home in Hunters once but went back because

539
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 10: she was worried about her kids.

540
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 13: And Babai missio paragraphia.

541
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 10: When the woman got there, her husband, a gang member

542
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 10: shot her in the foot. She waited until she could

543
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 10: walk again. Then one day she pretended she was taking

544
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 10: the kids on an errand the woman who's twenty seven,

545
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 10: is part of this year's hunter and exodus. Most media

546
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 10: coverage has focused on the estimated sixty thousand Central American

547
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 10: miners who were detained at the US Mexico border. In reality,

548
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 10: human rights workers and activist reports that miners are leaving

549
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 10: Central America with adults, often with their mothers. The problem

550
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 10: is the routes they're being forced to take are so

551
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 10: dangerous migrant women can barely protect their children. Mark Bosk

552
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 10: describes it this way.

553
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: They professional in BISI and.

554
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 10: Mbcivilisasion becoming invisible. Bosque is the head coordinator for Doctors

555
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 10: Without Borders in Mexico. He says, on the surface, it

556
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 10: looks like the number of people crossing from Central America

557
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 10: has gone down. That may be happening largely because of

558
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 10: Mexico's Plan Fronterasur, the Southern Border Plan. The plant has

559
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 10: kept thousands of people off La Vestia, the freight train

560
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 10: migrants ride as stowaways to get to northern Mexico. But

561
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 10: for those migrants who do make it through, Bosque says,

562
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 10: reports of violence and exploitation have increased.

563
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 4: Anything and.

564
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 14: And the fact that they cannot use the train and

565
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 14: they have to start taking alternate routes exposes them to

566
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 14: organize crime and human trafficking networks more than before, back

567
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 14: when people knew a route and where they had to go.

568
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 6: Investa on the y Camino Cave.

569
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 10: That means migrants are no longer traveling on routes where

570
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 10: they'd have access to shelters or medical attention. Here, they'll

571
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 10: sleep in clandestine housing run by cartels or human smugglers,

572
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 10: where they're vulnerable to all types of abuses, something like

573
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 10: what happened to the Honduran and her children in the

574
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 10: playground of a shelter. The kids say their journey to

575
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 10: Mexico was cold, long, and the train they rode was

576
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 10: scary because that's where they kill people.

577
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 13: And I want that on Amri, I want that on

578
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 13: for you.

579
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 11: My kids injured hunger, they injured the cold. By the

580
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 11: time we got to they were very sick.

581
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 10: Quatsaquacos is an industrial city run by the notorious Citat Cartel,

582
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 10: a place where migrants trying to get north often get trapped.

583
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 10: The woman says, when a Mexican man approached her and

584
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 10: told her he ran a shelter, she went with him.

585
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, you found.

586
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 10: The man kept her and her children there for three days,

587
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 10: and every night he raped her while the kids lay

588
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 10: in the same bed.

589
00:35:58,360 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: The man also fondled her dog.

590
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 10: The woman thinks he was a sex trafficker in music.

591
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 11: I don't even know how I escaped. The woman who

592
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 11: cleaned his house kind of left the door open. I

593
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 11: left all our things in there.

594
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 10: With no money and no belongings. The hunter and woman

595
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 10: and her kids rode the freight train all the way

596
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 10: to Mexico City, where they found a real migrant shelter.

597
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 10: When she got there, the first thing she asked for

598
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 10: was an HIV test. The woman says her daughter still

599
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 10: has nightmares about what happened on their trip. Her son

600
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 10: has violent outbursts. Technically, the Mexican government does have refugee

601
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 10: visas for migrants fleeing danger, but they're nearly impossible to

602
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 10: come by. From January to September of this year, the

603
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 10: Mexican government had fifteen hundred and twenty five applications for

604
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 10: refugee status, but it only accepted two hundred and forty seven.

605
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 10: The woman knows her chances of getting one of those

606
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 10: visas are slim, and her kids are homesick, so she's

607
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 10: decided to go back to Honduras. Sides, she says she's exhausted.

608
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 13: Well. De momento sarayan.

609
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 10: No yan for Latino USA. I'm Jasmine Garstinana.

610
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: Migration officials in Honduras that Latino USA spoke to told

611
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: us that so far, the unaccompanied minors from Honduras who

612
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: showed up at the US border this summer have not

613
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: yet been deported, but plenty of young migrants have been

614
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 2: deported back to Honduras from Mexico.

615
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: As our producer Marlon Bishop reports.

616
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: It's not always so easy for them to pick their

617
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: lives back up where they left them. Marlon has our

618
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: story now from San Pedro Sula in Honduras, outside the

619
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: center where young deportees are received, And.

620
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: What are you doing here today.

621
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 9: I'm here.

622
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 7: I just came to pick up my two cousins who

623
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 7: had left to the United States and apparently didn't make it,

624
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 7: so it was pretty much like a road tree for him.

625
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 7: But I'm glad they okay.

626
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: Franklin Alvarado was not happy when he got word that

627
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: his little cousins tried to migrate. He was once an

628
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 3: immigrant himself. He lived most of his life in the

629
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 3: States before being deported. That's why he speaks English so well.

630
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: But his cousins left without even telling their mom, and

631
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: that's not cool.

632
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 7: They just left the house man only. The next thing

633
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 7: we knew immigration call from Mexico, so we came picked

634
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 7: them up here because they arrived here today.

635
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 3: The cousins in question step out of the deportation center

636
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: and walk into a flurry of hugs from family members.

637
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: Johann is fifteen, his brother Carlos is seventeen. We're not

638
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 3: using their last names for their protection. The brothers decided

639
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 3: to try and leave Honduras after a run in with

640
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 3: some gang members from their town. Here's Johann. The gang

641
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: members told the brothers that they had to join the gang.

642
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: If not, they would kill them. Their families as well.

643
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 3: Johann and Carlos told their dad, an immigrant who lives

644
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: in San Francisco, about what happened. Dad got worried and

645
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: decided to pay a smuggler to bring them across the border.

646
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,919
Speaker 3: Stat Now, Carlos, the older brother, says he's nervous about

647
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: being back. He doesn't know what the gang will say

648
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: or do to him. How will you avoid them, I

649
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 3: ask m Never leave the house, he says. A few

650
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 3: hours ago, the brothers rolled through the border between Guatemala

651
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: and Honduras on a Mexican coach bus full of young deportees.

652
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: Ya Alima is a volunteer with the Hunter and Red Cross.

653
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: They run a little station here at the border. She says,

654
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: for the last few days in a row, there's been

655
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: six buses from Mexico every day.

656
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 6: Yes Astakin se Wosjaldia Solamentek.

657
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: Earlier in the year, the flow of returning migrants was

658
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: even crazier, she says. Fifteen buses might come in one

659
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: day with only a single Hunduran bus coming to meet them,

660
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: and half the kids would get stranded at the border.

661
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 3: Situations like these have called the government's readiness into question.

662
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 13: Absolutely, they are not prepared for these children coming back.

663
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 3: This is Yolanda Gonzalez. She works at a Catholic NGO

664
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 3: that deals with migration in Honduras, kind of a watchdog.

665
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 3: She says, there have been all kinds of problems. For example,

666
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: for a long time, the center for returned kids didn't

667
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: even have a bathroom, and at the height of the crisis,

668
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: a large number of the miners would somehow get lost

669
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 3: during the deportation process from Mexico.

670
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 13: Twenty percent they were missing, they didn't arrive at San

671
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 13: Pedro Sula.

672
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 3: I spoke with Marta Reyes, an official with the agency

673
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: that handles childhood development. She couldn't confirm or comment about

674
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: the loss deportees, but she says regardless, the system for

675
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 3: receiving kids has been steadily improving. For now, she says,

676
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: they're able to attend the needs of the kids who

677
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: are arriving. I wanted to see for myself how the

678
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: deported kids are adjusting to being back, So the next

679
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 3: day I visit Johann and Carlos at their home in

680
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 3: a small city called Lalima. The house is sparsely furnished.

681
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: On one wall, a sign reads welcome home, with an

682
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 3: exclamation point. The boy's mother works part time cleaning a school,

683
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 3: but it's not enough money to sustain the six kids

684
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: she supports, so she supplements her income selling loose cigarettes

685
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 3: and nips of liquor. The family scrapes by on a

686
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 3: few dollars a day. There wasn't enough money for Carlos

687
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 3: to attend school this year, so he helps his mom

688
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: clean it instead. She makes him do the bathrooms. It's

689
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: really gross, he says, I wouldn't recommend it to anybody.

690
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 9: See.

691
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: When Carlos talks about his trip to Mexico and back,

692
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: he has this kind of amazing teenage optimism about it.

693
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 3: He says it was kind of fun. He says, it

694
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: was fun because I got to see new places I'd

695
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: never seen, try new food I never tried. When I

696
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 3: ask him what's next for him, he tells me that

697
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: he and his brother are planning to try and cross

698
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 3: the border again and soon. The longer they wait here,

699
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 3: the more likely they are to run into trouble with

700
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: the gang. I asked him if he's scared to go

701
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: to Mexico again. Nah, nah, he says, I'm scared to

702
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: be back here in Honduras. But crossing the border. It's

703
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 3: not a big deal. I met a lot of young

704
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: deportees while I was in Honduras, and almost every single

705
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: one told me the same thing, that they will attempt

706
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: to migrate again. And that's why, in a way, the

707
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 3: stepped up enforcement and the deportations, it might all be

708
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 3: in vain. As long as kids like Carlos and Johann

709
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: are sent right back into the dangerous situations that compelled

710
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 3: them to leave in the first place, their deportations will

711
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 3: just be temporary. Jolanda Gonzalez says this is the biggest

712
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 3: problem with Honduras's way of dealing with deported miners. There's

713
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: no policy for reintegration, no follow up.

714
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 13: The process ends when the kids come to Honduras. Perhaps

715
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 13: they are given twenty five two fifty dollars and it

716
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:33,959
Speaker 13: ends there. I mean, this child disappears again for this state.

717
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 3: If all goes to plan. Carlos imagines that soon enough

718
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: he'll be in San Francisco with his father, but he's

719
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: nervous about the idea of reuniting Gainoloivisto. I've almost never

720
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 3: seen him, just in photos. He says. His father left

721
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 3: eleven years ago. When Carlos was really young. He sent

722
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 3: money here and there, but they've barely had a relationship

723
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 3: beyond that. What do you think the US will be like?

724
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 9: I ask, And we met the Withria.

725
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: Carlos perks up in my mind, he says, it's really cold,

726
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 3: but nice. I want to see the bridge. What's it called?

727
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 3: We're interrupted by a plane landing overhead. Carlos is used

728
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 3: to the sound. He lives right near the airport that

729
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 3: serves sampeed Rosula, one of the biggest cities in the country.

730
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 3: He's never been on a plane, but he says he

731
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: had a friend who was deported from Mexico on one

732
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 3: and told him all about it. I hear when you're

733
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 3: going up, it's not a good feeling, he says, But

734
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: once you get up in the air, it's really beautiful,

735
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 3: but it's kind of annoying. He adds that it takes

736
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: days and days to get over there by land, and

737
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 3: the plane can send you back in just a few hours.

738
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 3: I became Facebook friends with Carlos and Johan before I left,

739
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: so that we could stay in touch. About a month later,

740
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: I saw something come across my newsfeed that kind of

741
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 3: made me drop my jaw. A photo of Johann standing

742
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 3: on a hill with the Golden gate bridge stretched out

743
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: behind him.

744
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: Latin Know USA producer Marlon Bishop. And by the way,

745
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 2: if you want to see photos from our reporting trip

746
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: to Honduras, we have some beautiful albums up on our

747
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: website Latinousa dot org, as well as on our Facebook page.

748
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: So to end our show, as many of you know,

749
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 2: we always do a segment called Savi Luria, which means

750
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: words of wisdom, And for today's show, we're going to

751
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: bring back our producer Marlin Bishop to tell us a

752
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: little bit more about what he took away from his

753
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: recent reporting trip to Honduras. First of all, what was

754
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: it like for you to meet young migrants like the

755
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: brothers that we just heard about.

756
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: Well, for one thing, they were such teenagers, and you know,

757
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 3: they were so concerned with normal teenage things, you know,

758
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 3: how good their pictures looked on Facebook, the crushes at school.

759
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 3: Except they had this other burden that teenagers in the

760
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 3: US don't have, which is that they need to flee

761
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 3: their country because their lives are endangered. And that was

762
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 3: kind of hard to take in in a way. I

763
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 3: think kind of the main thing I took away from

764
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: talking to all the migrants that I met in Honduras,

765
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 3: is that immigration isn't something shameful or secret or anything

766
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 3: like that. In Hunduras, it's just a normal part of

767
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: every single family's life. And given what people are facing,

768
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 3: taking the decision to leave is really the most natural

769
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 3: thing in the world.

770
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 6: All right.

771
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: So with those numbers of people leaving, how do you figure, Marlin,

772
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: that things can actually get better in Honduras.

773
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 3: I think things can get better on Honduras, but I

774
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 3: think it's going to take a lot of work. People

775
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: have lost faith in their government in a big way

776
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: and lost faith that they can deliver things like ending

777
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: the extortion business and reducing gangs. But I'm given hope

778
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 3: by the people that I met there who are really

779
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 3: working on a grassroots level to try to improve the situation.

780
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of people who desperately want

781
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 3: Hunters to be better. People don't want to leave their country.

782
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: If people don't want to leave Honduras and leave their

783
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 3: families and the food they like and the beautiful country

784
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 3: they live in and take this really dangerous trip to

785
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: the United States, and if they didn't have to, they wouldn't, you.

786
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: Know, So it matter.

787
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,479
Speaker 2: I mean for many of them, literally a decision about

788
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: life and death. But thanks so much for all of

789
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: your reporting, Marlin, and for really connecting with Hunduras. It

790
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: helps us as listeners connect to the country too. Thanks

791
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: so much, Marlin, Thanks Maria.

792
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: That's it for this week.

793
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Marlon Bishop with help from

794
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: Marinez Samulio, Jolani Perez, Hermann Andino and I Mercerees. It

795
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: was produced in association with Round Earth Media. The Latino

796
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 2: USA team includes Andrea Lopes Gruzsado, Daisy Contreras, Mike Sargent,

797
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, Victoria Estrada Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Patricia Sulbaran,

798
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: with help from Raoul Berez. Our editorial director is Fernandes Santos.

799
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: Our director of Engineering is Stephanie LAbau. Our senior engineer

800
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: is Julia Caruso. Our associate engineers are Gabriel Abiaz and

801
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: jj Carubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our New

802
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: York Women's Foundation Fellow is.

803
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Loenthal Torres.

804
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: Special thanks this week to Ryan Lynch and team at

805
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 2: the Nettie Lee Benson Latin American Collection at the University

806
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: of Texas at Austin for retrieving historical content from the

807
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: Latino USA Archive. Our theme music was composed by saying Ruinos.

808
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: I'm your host and executive producer Maria Jojosa join us

809
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 2: again on our next episode, and in the meantime, look

810
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: for us on social media and remember for another train

811
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 2: time and yours Yes Chao.

812
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 12: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,

813
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 12: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,

814
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 12: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the

815
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 12: Heising Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more at

816
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 12: hsfoundation dot org.

817
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 3: Honduris imagine that's soon enough, Honduras will be in Honduras

818
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 3: with his father, Honduras