WEBVTT - Five First Flights

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody. Before we get started today, we want to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure everyone knows about our upcoming live shows. First up,

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<v Speaker 1>Holly will be at Salt Lake Comic Con September one, three.

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<v Speaker 1>I won't be able to make it to that one,

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<v Speaker 1>so past guest and friend of the show, Brian Young

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<v Speaker 1>will be talking with her about Lawn Cheney. Then on

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<v Speaker 1>October six pm, we will be appearing as part of

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<v Speaker 1>New York Comic Con Presents, and we'll be talking about

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<v Speaker 1>the first comic book. You can find out more information

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<v Speaker 1>on all of this ticket links everything like that if

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<v Speaker 1>you go to missed in History dot com and click

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<v Speaker 1>the link that says live shows. Welcome to steph you

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<v Speaker 1>missed in History class from how Stuff Works dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tray C. V.

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<v Speaker 1>Wilson and I'm Holly Fry So, Holly, you and I

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<v Speaker 1>have been hosts of the show for a little over

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<v Speaker 1>four years now Is that all? Actually? Now that I

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<v Speaker 1>think about it, some patterns have emerged in the comments

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<v Speaker 1>that we get when we share stories on particular topics

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<v Speaker 1>over those uh coming up on five years, like mentioning

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Revere prompts comments about Sybil Lettington, who we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about in Six More Impossible Episodes. UH. Posts about George

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<v Speaker 1>Gordon Lord Byron usually get replies about his daughter Ada Lovelace,

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<v Speaker 1>who has also been the subject of a past episode. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>Anytime we post anything about the Right Brothers, we get

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<v Speaker 1>lots of comments about other people who are not the

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<v Speaker 1>Right Brothers, who we should be talking about. Yeah, various

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<v Speaker 1>levels from hey did you know about two? You're horrible

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<v Speaker 1>and you ignored these important people. Right. So, one reason

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<v Speaker 1>for all these Right Brothers comments is that the Right

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<v Speaker 1>Brothers first has a lot of qualifiers on it. People

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<v Speaker 1>flew in balloons well before the Rights took to the

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<v Speaker 1>air in a plane. There were a lot of gliders

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<v Speaker 1>before them, as well as including ones that they designed

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<v Speaker 1>while they were working toward powered flight. Powered dirigibles also

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<v Speaker 1>predate powered airplanes, and there were also a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>heavier than airplanes that managed to get up off the ground,

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<v Speaker 1>but not necessarily in a way that you could describe

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<v Speaker 1>as flying, its falling with style. Right. So, when people

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<v Speaker 1>say that the Right Brothers were first in quotation marks, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a series of very particular circumstances we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking about an aircraft heavier than air that achieved

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<v Speaker 1>a sustained and controlled and self powered flight with a

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<v Speaker 1>person on board. All that stuff together and really a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these distinctions are kind of arbitrary. There's also

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<v Speaker 1>some legitimate conversation to be had about just how controlled

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<v Speaker 1>the White Wright brothers first flights really were. Uh, there

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<v Speaker 1>was some careening involved in some cases. So we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>talk about all of that today and some of the

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<v Speaker 1>other folks who come up pretty often as people who

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<v Speaker 1>maybe shouldn't be considered to have flown before the Right brothers.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're going to say right from the beginning that

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<v Speaker 1>all the men that we're talking about today, we're all

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<v Speaker 1>really remarkable in their own way, regardless of whether we

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<v Speaker 1>get to say first before their achievement. And we also

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<v Speaker 1>want to know that even though the people that we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about today are all men, we have a whole

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<v Speaker 1>women in Aviation tag on our website that has lots

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<v Speaker 1>of groundbreaking female aviators as well. We're not leaving them out,

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<v Speaker 1>but we're gonna start just as a level set with

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<v Speaker 1>the Wright brothers. So even among people who agree that

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<v Speaker 1>they were first, there is still something to disagree on.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's whether Ohio, where the Wright brothers were from,

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<v Speaker 1>or North Carolina, where they refined their glider designs and

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<v Speaker 1>took their first powered flight, should get most of the credit.

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<v Speaker 1>Whether this interstate disagreement is good natured or not really

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<v Speaker 1>depends on who you ask. And both states have references

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<v Speaker 1>to flight, and the Right brothers flyer on their license

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<v Speaker 1>plates and their state quarters. So the Right Brothers started

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<v Speaker 1>experimenting with flight in the late eight nineties. Wilbert wrote

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<v Speaker 1>to the Smithsonian and to ask for all the prior

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<v Speaker 1>research that they had on it, saying that he was

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<v Speaker 1>quote an enthusiast but not a crank overall, though you know,

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<v Speaker 1>aside from talking to the Smithsonian and whatnot, they were

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<v Speaker 1>comparatively quiet about what they were doing. Other innovators, including

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<v Speaker 1>Samuel Langley of the Smithsonian. We're making very public attempts

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<v Speaker 1>at flight, And it was actually Langley that the Smithsonian

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<v Speaker 1>first supported as being able to claim first flight status.

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<v Speaker 1>The Right brothers, on the other hand, were tinkering, refining,

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<v Speaker 1>and learning from their mistakes, all without a lot of fanfare.

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<v Speaker 1>This would be come doubly true after their first successful flight,

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<v Speaker 1>at which point they became very secretive, especially once they

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<v Speaker 1>were embroiled in a patent or over their flight control system.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Right Brothers shows the outer banks of North

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<v Speaker 1>Carolina as their testing ground because the constant wind helped

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<v Speaker 1>with the lift. They first refined the gliders that they

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<v Speaker 1>were working on until they were satisfied with their aerodynamics,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they turned their attention to power, developing a

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<v Speaker 1>lightweight gasoline engine UH and a propeller. The end result

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<v Speaker 1>was the six five pound eleven point eight one horsepower Flyer,

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<v Speaker 1>which they tried to use for a powered controlled flight

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<v Speaker 1>with the person on board on December fourteenth three. This

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<v Speaker 1>attempt at kill Devil Hills with Wilbur flying did not

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<v Speaker 1>go well. Rather than creating a wheeled undercarriage, they launched

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<v Speaker 1>the flyer from a wooden rail, which it traveled down

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<v Speaker 1>on a wheeled dolly On December fourteenth, Wilbur climbed too

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<v Speaker 1>sharply after leaving that rail, and the flyers stall and crashed.

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<v Speaker 1>They had it repaired in time for another attempt on

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<v Speaker 1>December three, and at about ten thirty five in the morning,

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<v Speaker 1>Orville made a brief and, as we noted at the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the show, somewhat careening hundred and twenty ft

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<v Speaker 1>or thirty six meter flight stayed aloft for about twelve seconds.

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<v Speaker 1>They had set up a camera ahead of time, and

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<v Speaker 1>John T. Daniels activated the shutter to take the now

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<v Speaker 1>famous picture of the flyer aloft with Wilbur running alongside

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<v Speaker 1>of it. They tried three more times that day taking turns,

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<v Speaker 1>with their best attempt being there last of the afternoon.

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<v Speaker 1>Wilbur flew eight hundred fifty nine feet that's about two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and sixty two in just under a minute. Then

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<v Speaker 1>the flyer pitched and, in Orville's words quote darted into

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<v Speaker 1>the ground. They sent their father a telegram that night

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<v Speaker 1>to tell him the news. Unfortunately, back in their base camp,

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<v Speaker 1>a gust of wind flipped the flyer over and wrecked it,

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<v Speaker 1>and at that point it was too badly damaged to

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<v Speaker 1>be easily repaired, so that put a temporary end to

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<v Speaker 1>their attempts at flight. The Rights kept refining and improving

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<v Speaker 1>their designs from there, testing and making adjustments as they went.

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<v Speaker 1>On October five, n o five, they flew thirty eight

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<v Speaker 1>kilometers near Dayton, Ohio in the right Flyer three. This

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<v Speaker 1>was its own type of first a flight measured in

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<v Speaker 1>kilometers instead of meters was a feat at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Next we are going to talk about perhaps the rights

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<v Speaker 1>most fanciful challengers was self taught French engineer and aviator

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<v Speaker 1>Claimant Adair. He was born on February four, eighteen forty one,

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<v Speaker 1>and like a lot of the other early aviators, he

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<v Speaker 1>got his start with ballooning. He made his first heavier

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<v Speaker 1>than aircraft in eighteen seventy three, which was pulled on

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<v Speaker 1>a tether, kind of like a kite. He also studied

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<v Speaker 1>birds and bats, and they would go on to influence

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<v Speaker 1>his aircraft designs. Adair's first powered aircraft was a monoplane

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<v Speaker 1>that he named aol after Ale of Greek mythology, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was granted a patent for it on August eleven.

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<v Speaker 1>On October nine, eight ninety it left the ground and

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<v Speaker 1>moved about a hundred and sixty five feet that's about

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<v Speaker 1>fifty meters, But this wasn't really so much a flight

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<v Speaker 1>as it was a hop. He'd successfully made a vessel

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<v Speaker 1>that could go in the air and come back down,

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<v Speaker 1>but it couldn't stay in the air in any sort

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<v Speaker 1>of meaningful way. They're claimed. He made another more successful

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<v Speaker 1>attempt in September of the following year, although historians generally

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<v Speaker 1>doubt that one actually happened. In a day, was granted

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<v Speaker 1>a subsidy from the French Minister of War to work

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<v Speaker 1>on another aircraft. The result, after a couple of iterations,

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<v Speaker 1>was the Avian three, another monoplane with twin twenty horsepower

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<v Speaker 1>steam engines with foot pedals to control the rudder, the

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<v Speaker 1>rear wheels, and the speed of the propellers. There was

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<v Speaker 1>also a crank that could change the positioning of the wings.

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<v Speaker 1>Because aircraft never really made it off the ground. On

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<v Speaker 1>October twelfth, it traveled around a circular track in Sassory, France,

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<v Speaker 1>but it never really lifted off. It did briefly come

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<v Speaker 1>off the track during a test on October fourteenth, but

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't remain airborne. This was you could imagine, It's

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<v Speaker 1>like if something hit a hit a bump and sort

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<v Speaker 1>of leapt up in the air. It was that level

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<v Speaker 1>of yea. Because this project was being funded by the

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<v Speaker 1>Ministry of War, the government had a representative witnessing these tests,

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<v Speaker 1>and that general's assessment that witnessed them was that though

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<v Speaker 1>the Aviano three had not successfully flown, those tests should continue.

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<v Speaker 1>The Ministry of War disagreed, and it cut its losses

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<v Speaker 1>at sixty five thousand francs. The Avon three eventually made

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<v Speaker 1>its way to Muse desu Amitier in Paris. But in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen o six, Alberto Santos Dumont, who you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about next, made Europe's first public airplane flight. So

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<v Speaker 1>clament and Air was really frustrated that he had not

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<v Speaker 1>gotten here first, and he started claiming that he had

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<v Speaker 1>made a successful flight aboard the Avian three, having gone

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<v Speaker 1>at least three or ninety meters during those October fourteen tests.

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<v Speaker 1>He offered no substantiation for this claim, though, and it

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<v Speaker 1>directly contradicted what the General had reported. Flight historians generally

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<v Speaker 1>agree that this is a fabrication trying to get in

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<v Speaker 1>on that um that's sweet, sweet first money. Of all

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<v Speaker 1>the aircraft that we're talking about today, Adairs looked the

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<v Speaker 1>least like a conventional airplane. He fashioned his with wings

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<v Speaker 1>pattern after a bat, and the avy On three's propeller

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<v Speaker 1>blades looked like feathers. It looks like if a tiny

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<v Speaker 1>race of forest creatures in a video game tried to

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<v Speaker 1>make an airplane which to me sounds delightful and I

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<v Speaker 1>wish they all looked that way. It is pretty delightful.

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<v Speaker 1>There will be a picture of it as part of

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<v Speaker 1>the art for this on our website. So it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>appear that he ever actually made a successful sustained flight,

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<v Speaker 1>but he did succeed in innovated in other areas, including

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<v Speaker 1>in telephone technology. He gave a demonstration of his stereo

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<v Speaker 1>telephone device at the one Paris Exposition of Electricity, and

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<v Speaker 1>he earned a patent for it later that same year.

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<v Speaker 1>Adair died into lose a March fifth, ninet. So next

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<v Speaker 1>we are going to get to another, uh, pretty fascinating character.

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<v Speaker 1>That is Alberto Santos Dumont. We're gonna talk about that

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<v Speaker 1>after a break. Unlike claimant Adair, who, as we said earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>was self taught, Alberto Santos Dumont was formally trained in

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<v Speaker 1>physics and mechanics, as well as in chemistry and an astronomy.

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<v Speaker 1>He was born in Brazil on July seventy three, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was the son of a wealthy coffee planter. When

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<v Speaker 1>he was eighteen, he went to Paris to study. He

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<v Speaker 1>was twenty five when he started experimenting ballooning, making his

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<v Speaker 1>first ascent in Paris on July four in a balloon

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<v Speaker 1>he had named Brazil, and he quickly started trying to

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<v Speaker 1>figure out how to build a practical balloon that could

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<v Speaker 1>be steered. So at that point, as you may recall

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<v Speaker 1>from our numerous episodes on balloon ing, most balloons could

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<v Speaker 1>change altitudes, but they were really at the mercy of

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<v Speaker 1>the wind when it came to the direction of their travel.

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<v Speaker 1>Figuring out how to make a reliably steerable balloon required

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<v Speaker 1>him to rethink basically everything from the shape of the

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<v Speaker 1>balloon itself, to the materials it was made up, to

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<v Speaker 1>the system used to steer, to the engine used to

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<v Speaker 1>drive it. He wound up designing his own three point

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<v Speaker 1>five horsepower gasoline powered internal combustion engine, that being one

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<v Speaker 1>that was safe enough to use an hydrogen filled bag

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<v Speaker 1>of gas, which at the time was quite a feat like.

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<v Speaker 1>Making an internal combustion engine that was was safe enough

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<v Speaker 1>and reliable enough to not set that bag of gas

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<v Speaker 1>on fire was a big deal, and the Santos Dumont

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<v Speaker 1>number one, his first attempt at a steered balloon, ascended

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<v Speaker 1>on September eighteenth. He tinkered with the design and the

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<v Speaker 1>Santos Dumont number three ascended on November eighteen nine. He

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<v Speaker 1>was able to steer it around the Eiffel Tower several

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<v Speaker 1>times before landing. On October nineteenth, nineteen o one, the

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<v Speaker 1>Santos Dumont number six took off from Saint Cloud, circled

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<v Speaker 1>the Eiffel Tower and returned, and under thirty minutes was

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<v Speaker 1>earned the Aero Club of Francis Deutsch prize, which had

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<v Speaker 1>been announced more than a year before in an effort

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<v Speaker 1>to inspire aeronautical innovation. This prize, which I mean this

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<v Speaker 1>was an accomplishment for sure. They basically set this prize

0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>at a hundred thousand francs, which they did because they

0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't think it was actually possible that anybody would pull

0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.640
<v Speaker 1>it off. So he won that prize and distributed a

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.920
<v Speaker 1>quarter of it to his crew and then gave the

0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.839
<v Speaker 1>rest of it to the Parisian poor. And at first

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 1>they actually tried to deny him the prize because it

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.280
<v Speaker 1>took a minute in twenty five seconds to secure the

0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.959
<v Speaker 1>aircraft at the finish line, putting the trek just over

0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 1>that thirty minute mark. He offered to do the whole

0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 1>thing over again, and the judging committee ultimately reversed their decision.

0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 1>So this was the first really effective demonstration of a

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>practical airship. Previous attempts at airships had been a lot

0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 1>more limited than this design. But after this success, Santos

0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 1>S Dumont decided that dirigibles were way too influenced by

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.880
<v Speaker 1>weather condition to ever by weather conditions to ever become

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.800
<v Speaker 1>a truly workable method of transportation, So he turned his

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:43.320
<v Speaker 1>attention to heavier than airplanes. So back in Brazil, he

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.480
<v Speaker 1>designed the fourteen BES or if you're looking at its

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.720
<v Speaker 1>fourteen dash b I S and that's a boxy looking

0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.920
<v Speaker 1>biplane with a twenty four horsepower motor. It looked boxy

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>because it was designed from box kites, and unlike the

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Right Brothers who used a wooden launching rail to become

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.160
<v Speaker 1>airble worn, he wanted to make an aircraft that could

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 1>take off under its own means. His first attempt to

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 1>do so in July of nineteen o six failed, Another

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.000
<v Speaker 1>attempt on September seven barely left the ground, and then

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 1>a few days later he made a meter off the ground,

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 1>And every time he would sort of address the problems

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 1>that came up. Whatever he discovered that seemed like it

0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.640
<v Speaker 1>was preventing him from reaching its successful flight, he would

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 1>refine the design and then he would try again. On

0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.760
<v Speaker 1>October twenty three, nineteen o six, the fourteen Bees took off,

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 1>traveled about sixty meters at about three ft in the air,

0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.080
<v Speaker 1>and then landed. A flight on November twelfth, nineteen o

0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 1>six flew two and twenty. Both of these were obviously

0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 1>after the December seventeenth, nine o three Wright Brothers flight,

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>and he was in fact inspired by that success. The

0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 1>reason that people point to Alberto Santos Dumont over the

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Right Brothers is that this whole distinction of the wheeled

0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.640
<v Speaker 1>undercarriage on the beasts versus the wooden launching rail that

0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 1>the Right flyer was using. The argument is that the

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Rights flyer doesn't count because the plane relied on separate

0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>pieces to take off rather than an integrated set of

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>wheels that were actually part of the aircraft. They are

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>also some very passionate Santos Dumont supporters who argue that

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 1>the Rights didn't fly in three at all, suggesting that

0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.280
<v Speaker 1>all their secrecy was really a cover up, and that

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.360
<v Speaker 1>their continued use of a launching rail was evidence that

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>they had never really perfected their earlier designs. So I

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know if I would go so far as to

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.720
<v Speaker 1>say that's accurate. But in terms of this was a

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 1>self contained aircraft that took off under its own power

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.720
<v Speaker 1>rather than using a launching rail, I kind of my

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>opinion is that actually has some merit. Yeah. Santos Dumont

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't stop with the fourteen Bees. He went on to

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 1>design the Demoisille or Dragonfly, a practical light aircraft, and

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 1>he published the plans for any one to use to

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.919
<v Speaker 1>build their own. But in nineteen ten he was seriously

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 1>hurt in a plane crash, and that led to him

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.120
<v Speaker 1>having a number of ongoing physical issues and it kept

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.880
<v Speaker 1>him from ever flying again. He had also genuinely, passionately

0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.119
<v Speaker 1>loved flight, and he was terribly dismayed at the growing

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.480
<v Speaker 1>use of aircraft in warfare, and he was especially upset

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.920
<v Speaker 1>by because he felt like he was personally responsible. There

0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 1>had been so many developments and aviation that were either

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.640
<v Speaker 1>his or that built off of work that he had done.

0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.680
<v Speaker 1>And in addition to the lingering effects of the nineteen

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 1>ten crash, he also became seriously ill. He died by

0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.919
<v Speaker 1>suicide on July twenty nine, thirty two. In addition to

0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the aviation awards he earned during his lifetime, he was

0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.720
<v Speaker 1>a charismatic showman who became something of a celebrity. Contemporary

0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>accounts also described him as flamboyant and somewhat feminine, and

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.919
<v Speaker 1>there's been some speculation about what his sexual orientation might

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 1>have been. Today, he is still a highly feered figure

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.919
<v Speaker 1>in Brazil, known as the father of the Brazilian Air Force.

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.479
<v Speaker 1>Multiple roads and schools, as well as the town he

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 1>was born in, have been named after him. Now we

0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.080
<v Speaker 1>will move on to Richard Pierce, who, for our first

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 1>year or so on the show, was the person most

0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 1>often mentioned when we brought up the Right Brothers. He

0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 1>was a New Zealand aviation pioneer born on December three,

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.320
<v Speaker 1>eight seventy seven. He was a mostly self taught inventor

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 1>and farmer, and he was granted his first patent in

0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 1>nineteen o two for a new style of bicycle that

0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 1>used pedals that you pushed up and down rather than

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.119
<v Speaker 1>in a circle. He invented a lot of other devices

0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:46.320
<v Speaker 1>to including a potato planter and a needle threader. Thinking

0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 1>about what it would be like to ride a bike

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 1>where you had to push the pedals up and down.

0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.840
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like a StairMaster bike. That seems sort

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 1>of mean, but probably not uh. He was also working

0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 1>on ideas for powered flight. His first airplay design was

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.399
<v Speaker 1>a low profile monoplane made of bamboo wire, canvas and

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 1>steel tubing. On his first attempt to fly it, he

0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.439
<v Speaker 1>took off from the road adjacent to his farm on

0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 1>the South Island. He flew fifty yards or so and

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 1>then he crashed into a gorse fence. So there were

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.040
<v Speaker 1>some witnesses to this flight. It definitely happened, but the

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.240
<v Speaker 1>details aren't recorded in any kind of official account, so

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 1>there has been a whole lot of debate about exactly

0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 1>when this flight happened. Pierce was a bit of a loaner.

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 1>He never married, There weren't really people that he talked

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.359
<v Speaker 1>to day to day about his work, and he also

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.760
<v Speaker 1>didn't keep a lot of written records or notes. Then

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 1>most cases, when it comes to things that he worked on,

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.320
<v Speaker 1>patent applications are the only remaining documentation of what he

0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>was doing, and this is also why we have way

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 1>less to share about his process than most of the

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:55.080
<v Speaker 1>other aviators were talking about today. Much later, in nineteen

0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.960
<v Speaker 1>fifteen and nineteen eighteen, he wrote two different letters in

0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.520
<v Speaker 1>which he remembered the flying having happened in February or

0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:07.240
<v Speaker 1>March of nineteen o four. Researchers reconstructed various bits of

0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.880
<v Speaker 1>eyewitness testimony to arrive at a date of March thirty one,

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>nineteen o three, although some have also argued that it

0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.800
<v Speaker 1>was actually in nineteen o two. And this is why

0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.040
<v Speaker 1>for the first year or so after we joined the show,

0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.840
<v Speaker 1>he was the person so often cited as a counter

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.840
<v Speaker 1>argument to the Right brothers. However, in fourteen, while doing

0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.960
<v Speaker 1>while doing research for a book on Pierce aviation, historian

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Errol Martin found an old article published in the Timoroo

0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Post on November seventeenth of nineteen o nine, and in

0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.639
<v Speaker 1>this article, Pierce himself contradicts the idea that he was

0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 1>flying anywhere close to the time that the Wright brothers did.

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.199
<v Speaker 1>As he said to the reporter quote, I did not

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>attempt anything practical with the idea until in nineteen o

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.439
<v Speaker 1>four the St. Louis Exposition authorities offered a prize of

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty thousand dollars to the in to the man who

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.879
<v Speaker 1>invented and flew a flying machine over a specified course.

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.000
<v Speaker 1>I did not, as you know, succeed in winning the prize.

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Neither did anybody. He went on to describe some tests

0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 1>of the machine that he was currently working on, a

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.720
<v Speaker 1>comparatively lightweight craft powered by a twenty five horsepower engine

0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.359
<v Speaker 1>that he had designed himself, along with the rest of

0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the planes components. Even the tests that he described to

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.480
<v Speaker 1>this reporter were more like hops than true sustained flight,

0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.680
<v Speaker 1>and Errol Martin suspected that the reason that the nineteen

0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.640
<v Speaker 1>o two or nineteen o three date persisted for as

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.480
<v Speaker 1>long as it did was because people were looking for

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.760
<v Speaker 1>substantiation that that flight occurred somewhere around that time, not

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.679
<v Speaker 1>six or seven years later. Pierce himself also said that

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.520
<v Speaker 1>he didn't fly before the Right Brothers, and that he

0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 1>became motivated to work on his own aircraft after their successes.

0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:58.879
<v Speaker 1>So the counter argument that we've heard most often in

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.440
<v Speaker 1>response to Richard Pierce saying that he had not beaten

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:09.679
<v Speaker 1>the Right Brothers was that he was just being nice.

0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 1>He may have been lovely, he may have just been

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.160
<v Speaker 1>being nice, but like that's not a very substantive counter

0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:21.200
<v Speaker 1>argument right, uh, and Pierce died in christ Church on July.

0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Most of the other men we've talked about today wound

0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:30.000
<v Speaker 1>up influencing the greater field of aviation in some way,

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 1>regardless of whether their attempts at controlled powered flight were

0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.960
<v Speaker 1>really all that successful. And this was less true for

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Richard Pierce, but it was only because being in New

0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.399
<v Speaker 1>Zealand put him really far away from where most of

0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.840
<v Speaker 1>that work was happening. His plane, though, was pretty sophisticated

0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.400
<v Speaker 1>for the time. It had wing flaps, a rear elevator

0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 1>and a wheeled steerable undercarriage and a propeller with variable

0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.960
<v Speaker 1>pitch blades. Because he was so physically removed for most

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 1>of the other people physically doing this work, though not

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people who were trying to come up

0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 1>with workable aircraft actually saw it or got to learn

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:09.680
<v Speaker 1>from it. Yeah, it makes you wonder if he were

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.920
<v Speaker 1>closer to those people, if his innovations wouldn't have accelerated

0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.919
<v Speaker 1>the development of flight in a very serious way. And

0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:21.359
<v Speaker 1>for a time after his death, Pierce's work was nearly forgotten. Fortunately,

0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:25.080
<v Speaker 1>knowledge of his efforts did survive. An auctioneer offered his

0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:28.840
<v Speaker 1>last plane to the Canterbury Aero Club, and aviation engineer

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.440
<v Speaker 1>George Bolt later bought it and donated it to the

0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland, where a replica

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:39.160
<v Speaker 1>is now part of their collection. Although it seems unlikely

0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:42.760
<v Speaker 1>that Pierce achieved true sustained flight in his aircraft, modern

0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:47.359
<v Speaker 1>replicas powered with ultralight aircraft engines have been capable of flight.

0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 1>So we're going to take one more quick sponsor break

0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 1>before we talk about our last first flight, which was

0:23:55.240 --> 0:24:04.640
<v Speaker 1>by Gustav Whitehead. So in a weird little irony, Gustav

0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Whitehead is not the name who is most often tossed

0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:10.959
<v Speaker 1>out when we mentioned the right brothers, but he is

0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:14.159
<v Speaker 1>the aviation pioneer who has gotten a lot of the

0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.919
<v Speaker 1>most first in flight attention in recent years, particularly in

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 1>the United States. He was born on January first, eighteen

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 1>seventy four, and immigrated to the United States from Bavaria.

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 1>He settled in Connecticut and changed his surname to Whitehead

0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:33.840
<v Speaker 1>from Viskoff. The idea that Whitehead might have flown first

0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 1>has come up periodically since the nineteen teens, and the

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:41.720
<v Speaker 1>most recent big wave of attention came in and that's

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:44.800
<v Speaker 1>when editor Paul Jackson endorsed the idea that the credit

0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:48.360
<v Speaker 1>should go to Whitehead in the centennial edition of Jane's

0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.960
<v Speaker 1>All the World's Aircraft. Australian John Brown launched the website

0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Gustav dash whitehead dot com that same year, laying out

0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 1>various pieces of evidence that Whitehead was the first to fly,

0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:04.880
<v Speaker 1>including what's purportedly a piece of photographic evidence. So here

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 1>are the claims. On August eighteenth, nineteen o one, the

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Bridgeport Sunday Harold reported that Whitehead had made a half

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 1>mile flight four days before on August fourteen, aboard a

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 1>very bird like monoplane known as Number twenty one, and

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:24.679
<v Speaker 1>as still happens today, other publications picked up this story

0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:28.359
<v Speaker 1>and mirrored it in their own pages without doing any

0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:32.119
<v Speaker 1>additional reporting of their own on it. This report listed

0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:35.199
<v Speaker 1>to ben as having helped Whitehead in this effort, and

0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:39.439
<v Speaker 1>those were James Dickey and Andrew Steely. In an article

0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:44.040
<v Speaker 1>An American Inventor published April first, nineteen o two, Whitehead

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:47.160
<v Speaker 1>himself also claimed to have flown for several miles over

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Long Island on January seventeenth of that year. He claimed

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:53.960
<v Speaker 1>that flight and another shorter one took place on the

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:57.919
<v Speaker 1>same day. From there, Whitehead made a failed bid to

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 1>enter an aircraft in the aeronautical Company Titian at the

0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Louisiana Purchase Exposition in St. Louis in nineteen o four.

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:06.359
<v Speaker 1>That was the same one that Richard Pierce referenced in

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 1>his nineteen o nine newspaper interview. Whitehead built several other

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:14.200
<v Speaker 1>aircraft between nineteen o six and nineteen o nine, none

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:18.400
<v Speaker 1>of which, ever, apparently flew. When a Scientific American reporter

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:21.440
<v Speaker 1>visited him in nineteen o three, he was actually working

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:25.000
<v Speaker 1>on a glider and not on a powered aircraft. There

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:28.639
<v Speaker 1>were doubts about his claims even at the time. A

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 1>much different article appeared in the Bridgeport Evening Farmer in

0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:37.200
<v Speaker 1>nineteen o two, titled Unrealized Dreams Last Flop of the

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Whitehead Flying Machine. It detailed the various grapes of Whitehead's

0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:46.120
<v Speaker 1>financial backer, Herman Lindy, who had invested six thousand dollars

0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 1>in two machines and was disappointed in the fact that

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:53.560
<v Speaker 1>neither of them could actually fly. The Bridgeport Post published

0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 1>a similar critical article on the same day. Whitehead died

0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:02.200
<v Speaker 1>on October tenth, seven and then in the nineteen thirties,

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 1>somebody stumbled over that initial article that had reported that

0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:08.000
<v Speaker 1>he had a successful flight, so people started trying to

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:11.120
<v Speaker 1>track down confirmation of whether he had flown or not.

0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:14.879
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Seely could not be located when he wasn't listed

0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:18.960
<v Speaker 1>in any local directories. They did, however, find James Dickey,

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:21.639
<v Speaker 1>who not only said he had not witnessed the flight,

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:24.360
<v Speaker 1>but also said he was not even there. He did

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:27.320
<v Speaker 1>not know any Andrew Seeley, and he had never even

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.480
<v Speaker 1>heard of any flight and that or any other Whitehead aircraft.

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:34.800
<v Speaker 1>When an interviewer tracked him down in nineteen thirty six,

0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:37.479
<v Speaker 1>he said, quote, I believe the entire story of the

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Herald was imaginary and grew out of the comments Whitehead

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 1>discussing what he hoped to get from his plane. It's

0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:48.199
<v Speaker 1>also impossible to go back and review Whitehead's notes and

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.040
<v Speaker 1>schematics to try to replicate his aircraft and see if

0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:54.680
<v Speaker 1>it actually worked, because he didn't leave any A few

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.760
<v Speaker 1>photographs do exist of his nineteen o one machine, although

0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:00.359
<v Speaker 1>all of those show it on the ground and not

0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 1>in the air. No photograph is known to exist to

0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the machine that purportedly flew several miles in nineteen o two,

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:10.520
<v Speaker 1>and no photographs exist of one of his aircraft in flight.

0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:14.560
<v Speaker 1>There are photos of an unpowered glider as well as

0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 1>one that was flown without a person aboard. This new

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:23.399
<v Speaker 1>in quotation Mark's photo evidence that was alluded to is

0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:28.119
<v Speaker 1>a really heavily enlarged detail of an exhibition that was

0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 1>shown at the Aero Club of America in January nineteen

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:35.359
<v Speaker 1>o six. This vastly zoomed in on picture shows a

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:39.160
<v Speaker 1>white blob shaped roughly like one of Whitehead's airplanes when

0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 1>viewed from above. People looking to support Whitehead's claims did

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:46.720
<v Speaker 1>interview a number of witnesses between nineteen thirty four and

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy four. However, their statements contradict one another or

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>they're demonstrably false, and at least one of them was

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.040
<v Speaker 1>paid to give that story. All of those statements were

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:02.080
<v Speaker 1>documented at least thirty years after the flight purportedly took place,

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:06.960
<v Speaker 1>And meanwhile, his family, employers, financial backers, and other people

0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 1>who were working in the field of aeronautics at the

0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>time generally agree that none of his planes ever left

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:20.000
<v Speaker 1>the ground yeah accurately reconstructing exactly when something happened thirty

0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 1>years or more after it happened. When there's not anything

0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 1>actually written down about it to jog your memory, that's

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of a tall order. So in the Smithsonian published

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 1>a number of lengthy rebuttals of all the various Whitehead evidence,

0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 1>and then Scientific American did as well, refuting Whitehead supporters

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:46.320
<v Speaker 1>use of its own past reporting and support for their claims.

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 1>So people, basically we're pointing to old Scientific American articles

0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:53.320
<v Speaker 1>being like, well, right there, it says that he flew,

0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:56.040
<v Speaker 1>and then Scientific American was like, actually, that's not what

0:29:56.120 --> 0:30:00.480
<v Speaker 1>it says. Supporters often claimed that the only reason that

0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 1>the Smithsonian won't seriously consider the possibility of Whitehead beating

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:07.440
<v Speaker 1>the Right Brothers Too Powered flight is that the contract

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 1>they signed for the flyer specifies that they won't display

0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:14.000
<v Speaker 1>a challenge to the Right Brothers claim to be first. But,

0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 1>as quoted in The Economist, aeronautics curator Tom Crouch said quote,

0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:22.120
<v Speaker 1>should persuasive evidence for a prior flight be presented, my

0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:24.960
<v Speaker 1>colleagues and I would have the courage and honesty to

0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 1>admit the new evidence and risk the loss of the

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Right flyer. This whole disagreement did basically lead Ohio and

0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.240
<v Speaker 1>North Carolina to put aside their differences and basically both

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:44.240
<v Speaker 1>say not Connecticut. Though. One of the things that gets

0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:46.400
<v Speaker 1>pointed to a lot in this whole thing is like,

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:50.160
<v Speaker 1>look at how many other articles say this happened. They

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:52.840
<v Speaker 1>can't all be wrong, but like they're all articles that

0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:57.960
<v Speaker 1>are spawned from one account. Yeah, they're all reporting one article,

0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:02.160
<v Speaker 1>which continues to be an issue in media today when

0:31:02.800 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>one thing will come out and a bunch of other

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.440
<v Speaker 1>people will re report that one thing without doing any

0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:09.920
<v Speaker 1>additional reporting on their own, and then like there's now

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:14.520
<v Speaker 1>there's a story that's faults and everyone believes it. Uh,

0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:21.160
<v Speaker 1>do you have solicitor mail? Kind of more. Have an update, okay,

0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:25.600
<v Speaker 1>an update on our our episode about the h. L. Hunley,

0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:31.920
<v Speaker 1>which literally just came out because the day after it

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 1>came out, people started letting us know that the Friends

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.000
<v Speaker 1>of the Hunley had issued a press release related to

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:40.800
<v Speaker 1>the research that we talked about in it um. This

0:31:40.880 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>is an issue where less than twenty four hours after

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 1>our episode came out, new information came out about it,

0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 1>which doesn't really happen all that often on a history podcast.

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes we'll get like a month or two later, but

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 1>that day after thing was just uncanny. Yeah, and it

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 1>was vexatious, not only for that reason, UM, because basically

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 1>what the press release from the Friends of the Hunley

0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 1>does is that it uh states that Dr Rachel Lance's

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:14.200
<v Speaker 1>research is incorrect. UH. They said that they considered and

0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 1>rejected a blast wave as the cause of death for

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the creed quite a while ago UM and say that

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Dr Lance did not have access to all of their

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 1>data to frame her own work when she was doing

0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:27.320
<v Speaker 1>that research. But so all of this is kind of

0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:31.520
<v Speaker 1>frustrating because it doesn't actually give any detail about why

0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:36.480
<v Speaker 1>they have um why they had previously said that a

0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:39.160
<v Speaker 1>blast blast wave was not the cause of the death

0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:42.960
<v Speaker 1>for the people aboard the Hunley. So the other really

0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:46.000
<v Speaker 1>frustrating thing about this press release, besides the fact that

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 1>it basically boils down to just saying nah, is that

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:53.640
<v Speaker 1>it describes Dr Lance as a student, even though she

0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:57.600
<v Speaker 1>earned her PhD last year and she submitted her paper

0:32:57.640 --> 0:32:59.760
<v Speaker 1>to Plus one after she had that PhD. So it

0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 1>did grow out of PhD dissertation research that she was

0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:07.480
<v Speaker 1>doing while she was a student, but it was part

0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:11.440
<v Speaker 1>of her PhD dissertation and not like an informal school project.

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:15.840
<v Speaker 1>So the framing of it in this press release makes

0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>it sound like she was maybe an undergrad and this

0:33:19.360 --> 0:33:24.480
<v Speaker 1>was some kind of casual activity that she embarked on. UM.

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:27.760
<v Speaker 1>And it's clear from a lot of the comments on

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.200
<v Speaker 1>the Facebook post where the Friends of the Hunley shared

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:33.880
<v Speaker 1>this press release initially that a lot of people definitely

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:36.280
<v Speaker 1>read it that way, like there's a lot of really

0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>patronizing Oh, it's cute that the student did some kind

0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:43.160
<v Speaker 1>of project on this, but obviously that's not right. Um.

0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:49.120
<v Speaker 1>They also originally called it fake news, which, in addition

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 1>to being incorrect, is a really politically loaded term at

0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.600
<v Speaker 1>this point. So I wanted to number one say, okay,

0:33:55.600 --> 0:34:01.160
<v Speaker 1>that development happened that day after our our episode came out.

0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:03.840
<v Speaker 1>But I also it's really important to note that having

0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:06.280
<v Speaker 1>your work scrutinized and assessed by other people is an

0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:10.040
<v Speaker 1>important part of science. People make errors, and peer review

0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:12.719
<v Speaker 1>is not full proof. So of re testing a hip

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 1>hypothesis to confirm whether it's correct, like, that's a critical

0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:20.480
<v Speaker 1>part of the scientific method. But that's also not really

0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:23.480
<v Speaker 1>what was happening with this press release. The press release,

0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:26.760
<v Speaker 1>the most of the detail was just no, it wasn't

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:31.040
<v Speaker 1>and not actual discussion of her methods or conclusions or

0:34:31.080 --> 0:34:33.839
<v Speaker 1>anything like that. So at this point, on the one hand,

0:34:33.840 --> 0:34:36.040
<v Speaker 1>we have a paper that was submitted to a journal

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:39.399
<v Speaker 1>that shows all of her work and acknowledges its own limitations,

0:34:39.440 --> 0:34:40.960
<v Speaker 1>and then on the other hand, we have a press

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:44.759
<v Speaker 1>release saying basically not that's not right, without giving any

0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:48.680
<v Speaker 1>detail about why that's not right. So, uh, I'm just

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 1>gonna say, if folks want to, you know, refute these

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.080
<v Speaker 1>findings or do additional research, great, that is part of

0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:59.960
<v Speaker 1>science and discovering things. But it was highly for us

0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>strating to um have this this press release basically offer

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:08.359
<v Speaker 1>no detail and then also frame the whole thing in

0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 1>a pretty patronizing and dismissive way. It reads really dismissively,

0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:18.600
<v Speaker 1>and it mischaracterizes her work, which is That's one of

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.680
<v Speaker 1>those things that just gets my hackles up, Like it's

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 1>fine to contradict people, but you can't like mischaracterize them

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>in a way that favors you, even though you have

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 1>no evidence, you know, just by trying to like undermine

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:35.279
<v Speaker 1>their credibility. Well, and they may have evidence, they just

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 1>didn't know what evidence was. Um, there's a link to

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:45.359
<v Speaker 1>the most recent uh research that's been done um by

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it was the Navy using data from the

0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.279
<v Speaker 1>Friends of the Henley and their whole project. But that

0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 1>report came out before this paper did. So it is

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.880
<v Speaker 1>also not a refutation of what's in the paper, because

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 1>it's not like it came out before the paper doesn't.

0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:05.640
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't say here is why this paper is incorrect

0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. Uh So, anyway, that that was irksome, um

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:17.359
<v Speaker 1>but you know, when something happens less than twenty four

0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:20.480
<v Speaker 1>hours after your show that came out about it, sometimes

0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:23.319
<v Speaker 1>you got to do a little update after a surprisingly

0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:26.960
<v Speaker 1>short period of time. Also, apparently at some point in

0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:30.279
<v Speaker 1>that episode we said something like nineteen when we really

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 1>went meant eighteen. Sometimes we misspeak. Numbers are tricky for me,

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:37.680
<v Speaker 1>like I'm that is what I am most likely to

0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:40.399
<v Speaker 1>ever just blurred out the wrong thing. Isn't a year?

0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:44.359
<v Speaker 1>Or yeah? Yeah, well you as you and I were

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:47.239
<v Speaker 1>recording the episode today that we recorded one time I

0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>said November when the piece of paper they said October.

0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:53.960
<v Speaker 1>So we have all been there. Yeah, we misspeak sometimes.

0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 1>Um If you would like to write to us about

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.680
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0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:03.680
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0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:14.719
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0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:17.040
<v Speaker 1>where you will find show notes of all of the

0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.800
<v Speaker 1>episodes that Holly and I have ever worked on together.

0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:22.520
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0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:25.040
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0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:28.080
<v Speaker 1>all there together, uh And on the episode player page

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:32.160
<v Speaker 1>for this episode, you will also see photos of most

0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:35.359
<v Speaker 1>of the aircraft we have talked about uh there in

0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.040
<v Speaker 1>the in the cover art for that particular episode. So

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>you can do all that and a whole lot more

0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:46.680
<v Speaker 1>at miss in history dot com for more on this

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