WEBVTT - Drew Holcomb (Live from NYC's Cherry Lane Theatre) 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.236 --> 0:00:22.756 In July, Malcolm Gladwell taped a live episode of Broken 0:00:22.756 --> 0:00:24.876 Record at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York City. 0:00:25.236 --> 0:00:28.716 It was a wonderful night of conversation and music. Drew Holcombe, 0:00:28.716 --> 0:00:31.036 a Memphis native who has spent the past twenty years 0:00:31.076 --> 0:00:34.036 performing with his band The Neighbors, joined Malcolm on stage 0:00:34.076 --> 0:00:37.156 for the recording. On today's episode, you'll hear how growing 0:00:37.236 --> 0:00:40.156 up with strict Christian parents shaped his artistic sensibilities through 0:00:40.156 --> 0:00:42.476 the handful of secular artists who was allowed to listen to, 0:00:42.996 --> 0:00:44.916 and how the crisis of faith he faced after his 0:00:44.956 --> 0:00:47.876 brother's death led him to leave seminary and pursue a 0:00:47.956 --> 0:00:51.196 life as a singer songwriter. You'll also hear stripped down 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:54.316 performances of his own songs, including a debut, and you'll 0:00:54.316 --> 0:00:57.436 get a taste of his favorite Bruce Springsteen track, Highway Patrolman, 0:00:57.716 --> 0:01:01.836 with impromptu background vocals from none other than Malcolm Gladwell himself. 0:01:04.436 --> 0:01:09.556 This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations. 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:15.436 Back in the spring, I was part of a traveling 0:01:15.516 --> 0:01:18.636 variety show called No Small Endeavor. It's put on by 0:01:18.636 --> 0:01:21.556 a friend of mine, a theologian from Nashville, named Lee Camp. 0:01:22.076 --> 0:01:23.796 A bunch of us got in a big tour bus 0:01:24.196 --> 0:01:28.676 left Nashville for Louisville, then Indianapolis, then Grand Rapids. Lee 0:01:28.716 --> 0:01:30.756 and I told a story about the famous showdown between 0:01:30.756 --> 0:01:33.276 the Suffragettes and the anti slavery movement in the mid 0:01:33.396 --> 0:01:36.916 eighteenth century, and then a bunch of musicians played music 0:01:36.916 --> 0:01:39.036 to help us tell a story. It was one of 0:01:39.076 --> 0:01:42.036 the most fun things I've ever done in my life. Anyway, 0:01:42.396 --> 0:01:44.596 when you're traveling on a tour bus, you spend a 0:01:44.636 --> 0:01:46.836 lot of time talking to everyone else on the tour bus. 0:01:47.156 --> 0:01:49.076 And along the way, I got to know the musical 0:01:49.156 --> 0:01:53.636 headliner on the show, the singer songwriter Drew Holcombe, and 0:01:53.716 --> 0:01:57.396 I found him so thoughtful and fantastic and full of 0:01:57.436 --> 0:01:59.836 life that I invited him to come to New York 0:02:00.076 --> 0:02:02.356 and sit down with me at eight twenty fours newly 0:02:02.396 --> 0:02:05.996 reopened Cherry Lane Theater. And to my delight, and I 0:02:06.036 --> 0:02:09.916 hope your delight as well, he said, Yes, Drew is 0:02:09.916 --> 0:02:12.956 in his early forties. Beard lives in Nashville, but he's 0:02:12.956 --> 0:02:15.796 from Memphis. He's maybe a country artist, although he would 0:02:15.796 --> 0:02:18.676 dispute that description. His band is called The Neighbors and 0:02:18.716 --> 0:02:21.716 they've been together forever, and if you've never heard his music, 0:02:21.876 --> 0:02:23.556 you're going to hear more than a little bit on 0:02:23.556 --> 0:02:26.316 this episode. Because I gave him only one rule before 0:02:26.316 --> 0:02:29.436 we had our conversation. You have to bring your guitar 0:02:29.956 --> 0:02:36.236 and it can never leave your side. 0:02:37.156 --> 0:02:40.396 Good evening, I'll get it started with a song. 0:02:43.116 --> 0:03:00.916 All right, I am fairly well now, I am strong, 0:03:02.476 --> 0:03:06.676 I am goodbye, long way from home. 0:03:08.236 --> 0:03:14.596 I am orchard at the start of spring. I am 0:03:14.836 --> 0:03:18.556 a mocking bird. I love to sing it. 0:03:18.756 --> 0:03:18.836 Now. 0:03:18.836 --> 0:03:25.636 I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly. 0:03:37.796 --> 0:03:44.036 I am an old road walking on my feet. I 0:03:44.116 --> 0:03:51.156 am laughing me weeping willow trees. I'm a dog barking 0:03:51.836 --> 0:03:55.036 a honey bee steam. 0:03:55.356 --> 0:03:57.476 I ain't any angel, bud. 0:03:57.596 --> 0:04:06.956 I've got my wings. I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly. 0:04:17.916 --> 0:04:31.076 I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly. 0:04:36.036 --> 0:04:36.956 I'm going to fly. 0:04:49.356 --> 0:04:53.876 I am moving, I am flashing balls. 0:04:55.276 --> 0:04:57.716 I am a gunshot. 0:04:57.036 --> 0:04:59.556 With my micruve phone. 0:05:00.356 --> 0:05:04.876 I'm a boy at the window as the summer sun. 0:05:04.796 --> 0:05:11.236 Sets, an old man in winter. Then more, nothing less. 0:05:11.796 --> 0:05:18.676 I'm going to fly. I'm going to fly. 0:05:23.756 --> 0:05:24.636 I'm going to fly. 0:05:39.716 --> 0:05:49.116 Okay, tell me why you chose that song to start. 0:05:48.916 --> 0:05:51.876 With, Well, that's my favorite one I've ever written. I 0:05:51.876 --> 0:05:53.916 was figure, when I get nervous, just play something you like. 0:05:54.036 --> 0:05:57.876 You know, when when did you write that song? 0:05:58.436 --> 0:06:05.316 I wrote that song probably January of twenty twenty two. 0:06:05.676 --> 0:06:08.916 I always tend to write a lot of songs right around, 0:06:09.196 --> 0:06:13.596 mainly after New Year's It's a good time to kind 0:06:13.596 --> 0:06:17.036 of get in your feelings and introspection about your life, 0:06:17.156 --> 0:06:19.676 about the world around you, and it tends to be 0:06:19.716 --> 0:06:21.116 a creative season for me. 0:06:22.676 --> 0:06:25.156 How do you decide you say that's the favorite your 0:06:25.156 --> 0:06:26.316 favorite song you've ever written? 0:06:26.756 --> 0:06:27.276 Probably? 0:06:27.556 --> 0:06:30.036 Yeah, Why what is it about that song? 0:06:30.076 --> 0:06:33.996 Now? Well, it was it was something about the song 0:06:34.076 --> 0:06:37.556 kind of came out of this. I just turned forty 0:06:38.476 --> 0:06:42.436 around that time, and I actually enjoyed all the way 0:06:42.516 --> 0:06:44.516 things that I felt after turning forty. Everybody told me 0:06:44.516 --> 0:06:46.196 I should be afraid of them, but I actually really 0:06:46.276 --> 0:06:48.196 enjoyed them. Also, was kind of born an old soul. 0:06:48.276 --> 0:06:50.796 My mom said, I was born an old man. I 0:06:50.796 --> 0:06:54.036 felt comfortable in that transition already, just because of sort 0:06:54.076 --> 0:06:57.636 of how I am. I started writing that song with 0:06:57.676 --> 0:07:01.636 the lyric started I'm a Boy at the Window as 0:07:01.636 --> 0:07:03.876 a summer sunsets. I had this keen memory for my 0:07:03.956 --> 0:07:07.596 childhood of being told to go to bed before the 0:07:07.636 --> 0:07:10.116 sun went down in the summertime, you know, and staring 0:07:10.116 --> 0:07:11.956 at the window and seeing my neighbor whose parents let 0:07:11.996 --> 0:07:15.836 him stay up, and and being sort of full of 0:07:15.916 --> 0:07:19.276 jealousy but also sort of full of wonder And and 0:07:19.316 --> 0:07:22.236 then also I, even though I'm not old, I feel 0:07:22.476 --> 0:07:25.676 certain I feel old in certain ways. And I sort 0:07:25.676 --> 0:07:27.556 of this song is kind of in the tension. Is 0:07:27.676 --> 0:07:30.916 me just sort of embracing the tension of that, And 0:07:30.956 --> 0:07:33.996 that tension feels more and more what I see when 0:07:34.036 --> 0:07:35.476 I look in the mirror, And so I'll play that 0:07:35.516 --> 0:07:38.316 song I feel, I feel it's like a blanket for me, 0:07:38.756 --> 0:07:42.116 you know. And I also finally let myself admit that 0:07:42.156 --> 0:07:45.756 I like my own music. You're not supposed to do that, 0:07:45.836 --> 0:07:47.356 But I do like my own music. 0:07:49.316 --> 0:07:50.516 Why you're not supposed to do that? 0:07:50.596 --> 0:07:52.996 Oh, it's just so you know the cultural thing you 0:07:53.036 --> 0:07:54.916 shouldn't you know, you get if you drive down the 0:07:54.916 --> 0:07:56.956 street and see an artist listening to their own music, 0:07:56.956 --> 0:08:01.036 you might think, man, what an arrogant guy. But which 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:03.316 that happens to me with my kids sometimes because they 0:08:03.356 --> 0:08:04.876 want to hear my songs. I just look at people, 0:08:05.316 --> 0:08:08.556 you know, hey, yep to me listen to my own song. 0:08:10.476 --> 0:08:13.356 How would you describe the genre that that song belongs to? 0:08:14.676 --> 0:08:18.076 You know, I growing up, was the music that I 0:08:18.116 --> 0:08:20.676 listened to a lot sort of fit in either categories 0:08:20.676 --> 0:08:26.396 of folk or rock and roll, some country, soul, folk 0:08:26.476 --> 0:08:28.916 rock was sort of how I framed it before this 0:08:29.036 --> 0:08:31.796 sort of ubiquitous word of Americana kind of came around, 0:08:32.276 --> 0:08:37.516 and it felt like they created a sort of a 0:08:37.516 --> 0:08:42.396 an institutional home for artists like myself who are definitely 0:08:42.476 --> 0:08:46.316 not country in the sort of commercial sense, and we're 0:08:46.356 --> 0:08:50.196 not rock in the sort of new radio sense, and 0:08:50.236 --> 0:08:53.716 we were a bit homeless. There's a lot of us, 0:08:53.756 --> 0:08:55.396 and so it kind of created this. So that's what 0:08:55.436 --> 0:09:00.036 I say now is Americana. But one of the great 0:09:00.036 --> 0:09:02.276 things about being in a you know, quote unquote Americana 0:09:02.356 --> 0:09:04.356 artist is there's not really a lot of rules about 0:09:05.356 --> 0:09:07.476 what you make, how you make whether the song has 0:09:07.756 --> 0:09:12.476 five stanzas and no chorus or you know, horns or whatever. 0:09:12.516 --> 0:09:13.916 You can kind of do whatever you want. It just 0:09:13.956 --> 0:09:16.196 has to be sort of made by real people in 0:09:16.276 --> 0:09:18.116 a you know, in a real sense. 0:09:19.076 --> 0:09:22.236 You're from Tennessee and you live in Nashville, but you 0:09:22.756 --> 0:09:25.996 take great pains to distance yourself from country music. 0:09:27.956 --> 0:09:31.156 Well, it all started. I'm from Memphis, which is, you know, 0:09:31.316 --> 0:09:35.716 two hundred miles west and south of Nashville, and we 0:09:35.716 --> 0:09:39.636 were raised Memphians are sort of it's baked into your 0:09:39.716 --> 0:09:44.636 childhood and you're upbringing to Haye Nashville. Yeah, it's part 0:09:44.676 --> 0:09:50.116 of how you're raised. For instance, my parents, every fall 0:09:50.116 --> 0:09:53.076 we would drive to Knoxville, where they attended school, and 0:09:53.076 --> 0:09:55.396 we'd go to a Tennessee football game. And that's a 0:09:55.396 --> 0:09:58.516 three hundred and eighty seven mile drive. So in eighteen years, 0:09:58.556 --> 0:10:01.316 let's say we did it. I don't know, maybe sixteen 0:10:01.356 --> 0:10:05.236 times in my childhood that that I can recall. And 0:10:05.316 --> 0:10:12.316 so thirty two times through Nashville stopped zero times and 0:10:12.396 --> 0:10:14.916 I forty goes right through the middle of town and 0:10:14.996 --> 0:10:17.436 my dad would just say, there's a state capital. 0:10:19.436 --> 0:10:20.316 Keep on moving. 0:10:20.716 --> 0:10:26.436 So we grew up admiring. You know, there was some 0:10:26.516 --> 0:10:30.596 country that that sort of leaked into my childhood. I 0:10:30.676 --> 0:10:32.716 think there's perceptions of folks outside the South that like 0:10:32.756 --> 0:10:34.676 everybody in the South was listening to country music. We 0:10:34.756 --> 0:10:39.556 listened to Motown and Bob Dylan and Amy Grant, you know, 0:10:39.796 --> 0:10:43.236 like it was this interesting mix of like gospel music 0:10:43.316 --> 0:10:47.916 and you know, black soul music and then all the 0:10:48.476 --> 0:10:51.676 my dad loved all the sort of contemporary seventies songwriter stuff, 0:10:51.836 --> 0:10:54.236 and so there was not a lot of country music 0:10:54.276 --> 0:10:54.516 in it. 0:10:54.916 --> 0:10:55.156 Yeah. 0:10:55.236 --> 0:10:56.236 Yeah, in my childhood. 0:10:56.436 --> 0:10:58.476 I want to talk a little bit more about Memphis 0:10:58.556 --> 0:11:01.076 in Nashville in your mind. What is the difference between 0:11:01.236 --> 0:11:02.196 Memphis and Nashville. 0:11:03.156 --> 0:11:05.996 Well, practically speaking, I mean, Memphis is a very it's 0:11:06.036 --> 0:11:08.556 a hometown city, meaning that most of the people that 0:11:08.596 --> 0:11:10.996 live there grew up there. I had family from there, 0:11:11.076 --> 0:11:14.436 grew up in the surrounding, you know, one hundred mile radius, 0:11:14.796 --> 0:11:17.756 Whereas Nashville attracts people from all over the country, especially 0:11:17.796 --> 0:11:20.236 in the last fifteen to twenty years, and so it's 0:11:20.276 --> 0:11:25.036 a much sort of more use. Those two realities create different, 0:11:25.116 --> 0:11:29.716 very different cultures. In Memphis, everybody knows each other, and 0:11:30.156 --> 0:11:31.396 you know, where'd you go to school and who do 0:11:31.396 --> 0:11:34.396 you know. It's a bit of that small town, big 0:11:34.396 --> 0:11:39.076 city experience, whereas in Nashville, so many young people move 0:11:39.156 --> 0:11:41.756 there because of what the city can offer them, the 0:11:41.756 --> 0:11:45.756 opportunities that may springboard out of living there, and then 0:11:45.756 --> 0:11:49.076 it's a center for I mean the big employers in 0:11:49.836 --> 0:11:52.316 Nashville or the music business and healthcare, which are both 0:11:52.396 --> 0:11:56.316 sort of booming and transient jobs, whereas Memphis it's you know, 0:11:56.396 --> 0:11:59.596 these big blue collar companies like FedEx and AutoZone, and 0:11:59.676 --> 0:12:03.356 so just creates very different cultures. And then you know, racially, 0:12:03.396 --> 0:12:07.556 Memphis is majority African American town. Nashville is very lily white, 0:12:07.916 --> 0:12:11.076 you know, so they're just they're they're very different. My 0:12:11.116 --> 0:12:13.516 favorite story to tell about about Nashville and I moved 0:12:13.516 --> 0:12:16.876 there was Memphis is a great food town, especially cheap food, 0:12:17.316 --> 0:12:21.996 you know Tomali's and barbecue and great unique pizza, and 0:12:22.436 --> 0:12:24.916 it's just a very you know, being a river town 0:12:24.956 --> 0:12:28.236 with a lot of transients over decades, so you get 0:12:28.276 --> 0:12:31.996 a lot of unique food. And Nashville had basically nothing 0:12:32.036 --> 0:12:34.796 that I that I wanted to eat, and I would 0:12:34.836 --> 0:12:36.836 just complain to my wife. I was like, that's nice here. 0:12:37.196 --> 0:12:38.956 I know you're from here, and that's why I moved here, 0:12:40.396 --> 0:12:42.676 but there's nothing to eat here that I want to eat. 0:12:42.996 --> 0:12:45.516 And then fast forward almost twenty years and it's one 0:12:45.556 --> 0:12:48.276 of the greatest food towns, you know, in the country. 0:12:48.316 --> 0:12:52.116 Everything's there now, so it's changing. It's it's a very 0:12:52.196 --> 0:12:54.156 sort of evolving and fluid place. 0:12:54.716 --> 0:13:00.396 Maybe you can explain my favorite joke. It's my favorite 0:13:00.436 --> 0:13:03.196 joke because I feel it has many, many layers, many 0:13:03.236 --> 0:13:06.596 of which I don't understand. Okay, it's a joke from 0:13:06.636 --> 0:13:12.116 the Civil Rights Movement era. Black man in Detroit wakes 0:13:12.196 --> 0:13:13.756 up in the middle of the night, it's one of 0:13:13.796 --> 0:13:15.196 those people who come off from the South, you know, 0:13:15.236 --> 0:13:17.636 and then turns to his wife and said, I had 0:13:17.676 --> 0:13:21.596 a terrible dream, and she said, what happened? He said, 0:13:21.956 --> 0:13:24.476 I dreamt that Jesus came to me and told me 0:13:24.516 --> 0:13:28.396 to go to Birmingham. And she says, did Jesus say 0:13:28.476 --> 0:13:31.556 go with you? He says, Jesus said it go as 0:13:31.556 --> 0:13:32.316 far as Memphis. 0:13:34.996 --> 0:13:36.956 That's a great joke, is it. 0:13:37.196 --> 0:13:40.796 Yes, it's my favorite joke of all time. It is, 0:13:40.956 --> 0:13:44.276 like I said, because it's a joke about Jesus who 0:13:44.916 --> 0:13:46.836 said he would be with us always. 0:13:46.436 --> 0:13:47.836 But but not in Birmingham. 0:13:47.916 --> 0:13:51.396 Not Birmingham. It's a joke about Birmingham. 0:13:51.916 --> 0:13:54.996 Like it's definitely a joke at the express dark Birmingham. 0:13:54.596 --> 0:13:57.956 Dark dark joke. But like, why did Jesus stop at Memphis. 0:13:58.356 --> 0:14:02.116 Well, because I mean, Jesus would love Memphis. There's there's 0:14:02.196 --> 0:14:06.556 great food, there's great hospitality, there's great music. Like Jesus 0:14:06.596 --> 0:14:11.236 would thrive there. Yeah, that was my experience. Jesus thrived 0:14:11.236 --> 0:14:11.836 in Memphis. 0:14:14.076 --> 0:14:15.796 You listened, well, I want to go back to that 0:14:15.836 --> 0:14:18.436 mixture of things you were listening to as a kid, Motown, 0:14:18.636 --> 0:14:19.796 Amy Grant, what. 0:14:19.636 --> 0:14:21.396 Was the third one, Bob Dylan. 0:14:21.596 --> 0:14:25.876 That's a fantastic and unusual mix of things to be 0:14:25.916 --> 0:14:28.356 exposed to. This is is this your father or your 0:14:28.436 --> 0:14:30.036 mother's doing? Let's push both both. 0:14:30.236 --> 0:14:34.076 Yeah. So my dad grew up in the in the 0:14:34.196 --> 0:14:36.996 you know, my parents met in the third grade, and 0:14:37.716 --> 0:14:40.716 so they they grew up seven or eight like blocks 0:14:40.756 --> 0:14:43.076 from each other. So there's this very sort of I'm 0:14:43.076 --> 0:14:45.636 one of twenty eight grandkids. It's like a very yeah, 0:14:45.676 --> 0:14:49.356 there's a lot going on there that's just on my 0:14:49.356 --> 0:14:51.556 mom's side, that include my dad's side. 0:14:51.956 --> 0:14:54.676 So wait, there's twenty eight grand kids on your mom's side. 0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:57.196 That's right. Yeah, and I'm number fourteen or fifteen, I 0:14:57.236 --> 0:15:02.436 can remember, but yeah, yeah, so very like it'd be 0:15:02.436 --> 0:15:07.316 hard to overstate how sort of like central Christianity and 0:15:07.356 --> 0:15:11.476 religion was to my upbringing. Part of that was that 0:15:11.876 --> 0:15:15.036 when I was apparently when I was like, I don't 0:15:15.036 --> 0:15:18.636 even know how old, three four five years old, someone 0:15:18.636 --> 0:15:20.516 from the church came to my parents' house and they 0:15:20.516 --> 0:15:23.036 were everybody in their church was doing like a record 0:15:23.076 --> 0:15:26.556 clean out of things in their house that weren't honoring 0:15:26.596 --> 0:15:27.916 to God, and so they would get rid of all 0:15:27.956 --> 0:15:31.356 these records that when I heard about this in high school, 0:15:31.356 --> 0:15:33.436 I wept. I was like, oh, Dad, you had all 0:15:33.516 --> 0:15:37.716 of these great records and original copies that they made 0:15:37.716 --> 0:15:40.276 there out because it was the Devil's music that was 0:15:40.436 --> 0:15:43.556 really too bad. You know, a lot of led Zeppelin 0:15:43.596 --> 0:15:45.596 got thrown out and things like that. You know, I mean, 0:15:45.676 --> 0:15:49.716 come on, yeah, gotta get rid of it, which we could. 0:15:49.796 --> 0:15:52.036 We'll come back to this. But my first record I 0:15:52.076 --> 0:15:54.116 ever bought was Pearl Jams ten. I was eleven year 0:15:54.156 --> 0:15:57.556 I actually got it for Christmas from Santa Claus and 0:15:59.116 --> 0:16:02.516 my dad broke the record by five pm on Christmas 0:16:02.636 --> 0:16:05.156 Day because we had to go through the liner notes 0:16:05.196 --> 0:16:07.156 together and there's drug references and he's like, you're you're 0:16:07.196 --> 0:16:09.636 too young for this and break. So this was you know, 0:16:09.756 --> 0:16:12.836 an intense an intense scene, but that some of the 0:16:12.836 --> 0:16:16.396 things that made it through the gauntlet was Bob Dylan's 0:16:16.516 --> 0:16:19.876 evangelical records of course, you know, slow Train Coming Saved 0:16:19.916 --> 0:16:24.436 and there's another one. And then because he still made 0:16:24.436 --> 0:16:27.436 it in there somehow his old records also got a pass. 0:16:27.676 --> 0:16:32.036 Yeah, got grandfather in Yeah, and he was Jewish, so 0:16:32.276 --> 0:16:32.956 there's like a thing. 0:16:32.876 --> 0:16:36.596 There too, you know, you're allowed to have records made 0:16:36.596 --> 0:16:42.876 by Jewish artists. So and then Motown was like it 0:16:42.956 --> 0:16:44.996 was all you could listen to Motown except for like, 0:16:46.076 --> 0:16:48.436 what's the you know, the great the market record. I'm 0:16:48.476 --> 0:16:50.996 just blanking on off course, well yeah, yeah, but the 0:16:51.196 --> 0:16:52.316 name of the record, what's going on? 0:16:53.116 --> 0:16:53.716 What's going on? 0:16:54.156 --> 0:16:54.356 Yeah? 0:16:54.396 --> 0:16:55.516 Oh, which sexual healing would have. 0:16:55.476 --> 0:16:56.996 Been was on that record, wasn't it? 0:16:57.876 --> 0:16:59.836 You know, what's going on is earlier? Sex I was saying, 0:16:59.876 --> 0:17:01.236 sexually is so far beyond. 0:17:01.116 --> 0:17:02.716 Oh yeah, yeah, you can only hear that the only 0:17:02.756 --> 0:17:04.356 the only way you could hear that in my childhood 0:17:04.396 --> 0:17:07.436 was at a wedding by the by the cover band 0:17:07.556 --> 0:17:10.196 you know, and and so, and it still felt awkward 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:15.076 for everybody, but so, yeah, there was so then any 0:17:15.116 --> 0:17:18.316 Christian music was okay. Bob Dylan was okay, and motown 0:17:18.356 --> 0:17:19.676 was okay because it was just a bunch of love 0:17:19.716 --> 0:17:22.756 songs and clean oldies stuff, you know, before the music 0:17:22.836 --> 0:17:25.796 business cut. You know, Amy messed up. 0:17:25.916 --> 0:17:30.516 Can you explain to a heathen New York City audience 0:17:32.076 --> 0:17:33.996 who Amy Grant is and why she's important? 0:17:34.356 --> 0:17:36.916 Yeah, Amy Grant was sort of I mean, the whole 0:17:36.996 --> 0:17:40.516 genre of contemporary Christian music was there was Southern gospel, 0:17:40.556 --> 0:17:44.396 which is a whole different thing. So it's basically take 0:17:44.436 --> 0:17:47.436 the songwriter model, and people started applying it to their 0:17:47.436 --> 0:17:51.036 faith stories, which this all predates the whole Now, the 0:17:51.076 --> 0:17:54.116 big thing is all this big ensemble worship stuff, which 0:17:54.196 --> 0:17:56.756 was basically like every all these church bands trying to 0:17:56.796 --> 0:18:00.316 sound like coldplaying you two. So Amy Grant was like 0:18:00.356 --> 0:18:04.236 this young songwriter and she was. They created an old 0:18:04.356 --> 0:18:07.796 radio sort of format around artists like her, and she 0:18:07.836 --> 0:18:10.356 became the most famous and successful. And then she had 0:18:10.396 --> 0:18:15.156 a crossover pop hit called Baby Baby that sort of 0:18:15.196 --> 0:18:20.556 sent her into regular superstardom. And yeah, she was just 0:18:20.596 --> 0:18:25.396 a very beloved woman, and she's she's also as a human, 0:18:25.476 --> 0:18:27.916 she's like, she's honestly one of the greatest ones I've 0:18:27.956 --> 0:18:30.596 ever met. You know, her, I know her because my 0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:33.116 wife knew her. But I moved to Nashville again sort 0:18:33.156 --> 0:18:37.396 of like country and Christian music. This town sucks, you know, 0:18:37.516 --> 0:18:39.196 And then I got to know these people. I was like, Wow, 0:18:39.196 --> 0:18:42.636 these people are all really great. This is tough. 0:18:43.756 --> 0:18:46.876 Wait what so wait? What what denomination were your parents? 0:18:47.156 --> 0:18:49.156 Yeah? They they were They went to like an independent 0:18:49.196 --> 0:18:53.116 Bible church. Yeah, so it was non denominational. It's very 0:18:53.156 --> 0:18:53.996 they're very proud of that. 0:18:54.316 --> 0:18:58.036 Yeah. I was asking you about other music that that 0:18:58.036 --> 0:18:58.956 that made it in. 0:19:00.396 --> 0:19:07.956 Yeah. I think basically my parents were pretty okay with 0:19:08.476 --> 0:19:10.596 all the class So we would go see you know, 0:19:10.636 --> 0:19:13.316 you could go see Paul Simon. They built the Pyramid 0:19:13.316 --> 0:19:15.596 in Memphis when I was a kid, which was a 0:19:15.676 --> 0:19:20.636 new arena where the Memphis Tigers played, And so I 0:19:20.676 --> 0:19:22.276 got a job there in high school as a part 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:23.556 of the event staff. And so I got to see 0:19:23.556 --> 0:19:25.916 all these concerts for free by telling people to stop smoking, 0:19:26.556 --> 0:19:30.596 you know, and had my little yellow shirt on, and 0:19:30.996 --> 0:19:34.836 you know, anything from boys to men as easy Top 0:19:35.036 --> 0:19:38.836 to whatever could sell fifteen thousand tickets. I was, you know, 0:19:39.316 --> 0:19:43.516 exposed to at a certain point that sort of the 0:19:43.596 --> 0:19:46.956 rules weren't really that well enforced. It was a sort 0:19:46.956 --> 0:19:48.796 of a young when we were young, it was very 0:19:48.836 --> 0:19:51.796 much that way. But our alarm clock every day growing 0:19:51.876 --> 0:19:54.756 up was my mom played piano and she would play 0:19:55.316 --> 0:19:57.236 hymns like that was get up and go to school. 0:19:57.236 --> 0:20:00.436 It was like up from the Gravey Rolls. You know. 0:20:00.956 --> 0:20:02.596 She was like a whole her like whole play on 0:20:02.676 --> 0:20:04.116 get up and go to school. You know. 0:20:05.516 --> 0:20:06.516 But that's fantastic. 0:20:06.596 --> 0:20:10.196 Yeah, it was great. Yeah, daily sense of humor. Yeah. 0:20:11.876 --> 0:20:15.916 I have a theory which I very grandiosely call Gladwell's 0:20:16.596 --> 0:20:22.076 theory of asymmetrical parenting, which is that at any given moment, 0:20:22.716 --> 0:20:25.556 when we account for our parental influence on our lives, 0:20:26.676 --> 0:20:31.316 we only talk about one parent. It can change over time, 0:20:32.236 --> 0:20:35.156 but you try to sound on somebody. You ask somebody, yeah, 0:20:35.356 --> 0:20:37.916 so what are your parents? People will never talk about 0:20:37.916 --> 0:20:41.036 their parents. They will the minute you dig into it. 0:20:41.076 --> 0:20:44.196 They only talk about one for a while. So I 0:20:44.236 --> 0:20:49.396 would like you to give me an asymmetrical parental theory 0:20:49.476 --> 0:20:51.756 of the jew Holcomb childhood. 0:20:53.916 --> 0:20:58.076 I completely disagree with that theory. 0:20:58.676 --> 0:21:01.236 I'm not saying that you only get only one matter. 0:21:01.356 --> 0:21:04.156 I'm saying that at any given moment, only one matters. 0:21:04.716 --> 0:21:06.676 In a particular story. 0:21:06.516 --> 0:21:10.516 Toggling, right, So it may be from you know, in 0:21:10.676 --> 0:21:12.716 high school, it's only your mom, and then in college 0:21:12.716 --> 0:21:13.276 it's only a year. 0:21:14.916 --> 0:21:20.716 Yeah, I my parents are going to listen to this probably, 0:21:21.196 --> 0:21:21.396 you know. 0:21:21.476 --> 0:21:22.676 Yeah, yeah, that's the whole point. 0:21:23.676 --> 0:21:30.116 Yeah, yeah. I think we were actually talking earlier back 0:21:30.316 --> 0:21:34.836 backstage about how as dads you sometimes get this free 0:21:34.876 --> 0:21:38.156 pass that it's almost like, and I've seen this. I 0:21:38.156 --> 0:21:41.276 have three children that, especially with my daughter, she sort 0:21:41.316 --> 0:21:44.996 of defaults to dad, You're doing great, You're awesome, even 0:21:45.396 --> 0:21:47.636 if my wife Ellie has done all of the hard 0:21:47.636 --> 0:21:50.836 work that day in the parenting space. So with that said, 0:21:50.876 --> 0:21:52.796 I think that that's probably true in a lot of 0:21:52.836 --> 0:21:54.836 ways that my dad had sort of an outside influence. 0:21:55.116 --> 0:21:57.356 What did your dad do well? He was a dentist 0:21:58.076 --> 0:22:02.716 and then he hated it so he quit and became 0:22:02.716 --> 0:22:07.196 a financial advisor. Seriously true story. 0:22:07.476 --> 0:22:11.436 This reminds me my one of my favorite stories about 0:22:11.716 --> 0:22:13.956 a friend of mine whose dad was an investment banker 0:22:14.196 --> 0:22:20.196 and he once had a long heart to heart with 0:22:20.236 --> 0:22:22.876 his daughter and my friend about how he felt his 0:22:23.676 --> 0:22:26.276 career had been misspent and he made a series of 0:22:26.356 --> 0:22:28.396 terrible choices and he had squattered his life in a 0:22:28.396 --> 0:22:30.996 profession with no meaning. And she was very moved by 0:22:30.996 --> 0:22:33.076 this because she didn't realize her father had this other side. 0:22:33.156 --> 0:22:35.236 And she said, Dad, so what do you think you 0:22:35.276 --> 0:22:38.316 should have been? And he says, I think I should 0:22:38.316 --> 0:22:45.716 have been a tax attorney. That's kind of like kind 0:22:45.716 --> 0:22:47.236 of what you're hearing here is kind of like, but 0:22:47.356 --> 0:22:47.956 your dad did. 0:22:48.276 --> 0:22:52.356 Yeah, well, he said that he was just very he 0:22:52.396 --> 0:22:58.036 was very sort of bored by the monotony of dentistry 0:22:58.076 --> 0:23:01.836 and now he's he's very extrovert, and he was trying 0:23:01.876 --> 0:23:04.996 to have conversations with people and they couldn't because you know. 0:23:06.036 --> 0:23:07.916 Oh, he was one of those annoying dennists who's like 0:23:07.956 --> 0:23:08.956 asking you questions and you. 0:23:10.876 --> 0:23:12.596 Well, and I think, honestly, I think it was a 0:23:13.236 --> 0:23:15.476 It was a serious crossroads for him because he'd spent 0:23:15.556 --> 0:23:18.996 he put himself through dental school selling jewelry out of 0:23:18.996 --> 0:23:22.276 a tackle box. This is like he he worked his 0:23:22.516 --> 0:23:26.076 way really hard to get himself this you know, job, 0:23:26.276 --> 0:23:29.716 and and this career. But then a decade in he 0:23:29.796 --> 0:23:33.716 realized how much he really did not enjoy it and 0:23:34.396 --> 0:23:35.756 found a way out of it. Took him. It was 0:23:35.876 --> 0:23:37.996 it wasn't like an immediate transition. He went to one 0:23:38.036 --> 0:23:39.956 day a week to doing the other thing, to two 0:23:39.996 --> 0:23:41.556 days a week doing the other thing, to half and half, 0:23:41.596 --> 0:23:44.476