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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: In July, Malcolm Gladwell taped a live episode of Broken

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Speaker 2: Record at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York City.

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Speaker 2: It was a wonderful night of conversation and music. Drew Holcombe,

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Speaker 2: a Memphis native who has spent the past twenty years

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Speaker 2: performing with his band The Neighbors, joined Malcolm on stage

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Speaker 2: for the recording. On today's episode, you'll hear how growing

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Speaker 2: up with strict Christian parents shaped his artistic sensibilities through

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Speaker 2: the handful of secular artists who was allowed to listen to,

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Speaker 2: and how the crisis of faith he faced after his

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Speaker 2: brother's death led him to leave seminary and pursue a

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Speaker 2: life as a singer songwriter. You'll also hear stripped down

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Speaker 2: performances of his own songs, including a debut, and you'll

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Speaker 2: get a taste of his favorite Bruce Springsteen track, Highway Patrolman,

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Speaker 2: with impromptu background vocals from none other than Malcolm Gladwell himself.

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Speaker 2: This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations.

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Speaker 3: Back in the spring, I was part of a traveling

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Speaker 3: variety show called No Small Endeavor. It's put on by

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Speaker 3: a friend of mine, a theologian from Nashville, named Lee Camp.

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Speaker 3: A bunch of us got in a big tour bus

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Speaker 3: left Nashville for Louisville, then Indianapolis, then Grand Rapids. Lee

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Speaker 3: and I told a story about the famous showdown between

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Speaker 3: the Suffragettes and the anti slavery movement in the mid

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Speaker 3: eighteenth century, and then a bunch of musicians played music

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Speaker 3: to help us tell a story. It was one of

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Speaker 3: the most fun things I've ever done in my life. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: when you're traveling on a tour bus, you spend a

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Speaker 3: lot of time talking to everyone else on the tour bus.

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Speaker 3: And along the way, I got to know the musical

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Speaker 3: headliner on the show, the singer songwriter Drew Holcombe, and

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Speaker 3: I found him so thoughtful and fantastic and full of

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Speaker 3: life that I invited him to come to New York

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Speaker 3: and sit down with me at eight twenty fours newly

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Speaker 3: reopened Cherry Lane Theater. And to my delight, and I

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Speaker 3: hope your delight as well, he said, Yes, Drew is

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Speaker 3: in his early forties. Beard lives in Nashville, but he's

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Speaker 3: from Memphis. He's maybe a country artist, although he would

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Speaker 3: dispute that description. His band is called The Neighbors and

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Speaker 3: they've been together forever, and if you've never heard his music,

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Speaker 3: you're going to hear more than a little bit on

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Speaker 3: this episode. Because I gave him only one rule before

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Speaker 3: we had our conversation. You have to bring your guitar

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Speaker 3: and it can never leave your side.

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Speaker 1: Good evening, I'll get it started with a song.

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Speaker 4: All right, I am fairly well now, I am strong,

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Speaker 4: I am goodbye, long way from home.

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Speaker 5: I am orchard at the start of spring. I am

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Speaker 5: a mocking bird. I love to sing it.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly.

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Speaker 4: I am an old road walking on my feet. I

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Speaker 4: am laughing me weeping willow trees. I'm a dog barking

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Speaker 4: a honey bee steam.

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Speaker 7: I ain't any angel, bud.

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Speaker 4: I've got my wings. I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly.

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Speaker 7: I'm going to fly.

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Speaker 4: I am moving, I am flashing balls.

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Speaker 7: I am a gunshot.

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Speaker 6: With my micruve phone.

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Speaker 4: I'm a boy at the window as the summer sun.

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Speaker 7: Sets, an old man in winter. Then more, nothing less.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to fly. I'm going to fly.

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Speaker 7: I'm going to fly.

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Speaker 3: Okay, tell me why you chose that song to start.

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Speaker 1: With, Well, that's my favorite one I've ever written. I

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Speaker 1: was figure, when I get nervous, just play something you like.

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Speaker 3: You know, when when did you write that song?

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Speaker 1: I wrote that song probably January of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: I always tend to write a lot of songs right around,

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Speaker 1: mainly after New Year's It's a good time to kind

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Speaker 1: of get in your feelings and introspection about your life,

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Speaker 1: about the world around you, and it tends to be

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Speaker 1: a creative season for me.

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Speaker 3: How do you decide you say that's the favorite your

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Speaker 3: favorite song you've ever written?

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Speaker 1: Probably?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Why what is it about that song?

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Speaker 1: Now? Well, it was it was something about the song

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Speaker 1: kind of came out of this. I just turned forty

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Speaker 1: around that time, and I actually enjoyed all the way

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Speaker 1: things that I felt after turning forty. Everybody told me

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Speaker 1: I should be afraid of them, but I actually really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed them. Also, was kind of born an old soul.

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Speaker 1: My mom said, I was born an old man. I

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Speaker 1: felt comfortable in that transition already, just because of sort

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Speaker 1: of how I am. I started writing that song with

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Speaker 1: the lyric started I'm a Boy at the Window as

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Speaker 1: a summer sunsets. I had this keen memory for my

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Speaker 1: childhood of being told to go to bed before the

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Speaker 1: sun went down in the summertime, you know, and staring

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Speaker 1: at the window and seeing my neighbor whose parents let

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Speaker 1: him stay up, and and being sort of full of

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Speaker 1: jealousy but also sort of full of wonder And and

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Speaker 1: then also I, even though I'm not old, I feel

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Speaker 1: certain I feel old in certain ways. And I sort

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Speaker 1: of this song is kind of in the tension. Is

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Speaker 1: me just sort of embracing the tension of that, And

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Speaker 1: that tension feels more and more what I see when

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Speaker 1: I look in the mirror, And so I'll play that

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Speaker 1: song I feel, I feel it's like a blanket for me,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I also finally let myself admit that

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Speaker 1: I like my own music. You're not supposed to do that,

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Speaker 1: But I do like my own music.

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Speaker 3: Why you're not supposed to do that?

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's just so you know the cultural thing you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't you know, you get if you drive down the

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Speaker 1: street and see an artist listening to their own music,

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Speaker 1: you might think, man, what an arrogant guy. But which

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Speaker 1: that happens to me with my kids sometimes because they

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Speaker 1: want to hear my songs. I just look at people,

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Speaker 1: you know, hey, yep to me listen to my own song.

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Speaker 3: How would you describe the genre that that song belongs to?

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Speaker 1: You know, I growing up, was the music that I

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Speaker 1: listened to a lot sort of fit in either categories

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Speaker 1: of folk or rock and roll, some country, soul, folk

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Speaker 1: rock was sort of how I framed it before this

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Speaker 1: sort of ubiquitous word of Americana kind of came around,

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Speaker 1: and it felt like they created a sort of a

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Speaker 1: an institutional home for artists like myself who are definitely

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Speaker 1: not country in the sort of commercial sense, and we're

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Speaker 1: not rock in the sort of new radio sense, and

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Speaker 1: we were a bit homeless. There's a lot of us,

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Speaker 1: and so it kind of created this. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I say now is Americana. But one of the great

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Speaker 1: things about being in a you know, quote unquote Americana

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Speaker 1: artist is there's not really a lot of rules about

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Speaker 1: what you make, how you make whether the song has

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Speaker 1: five stanzas and no chorus or you know, horns or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You can kind of do whatever you want. It just

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Speaker 1: has to be sort of made by real people in

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Speaker 1: a you know, in a real sense.

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Speaker 3: You're from Tennessee and you live in Nashville, but you

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Speaker 3: take great pains to distance yourself from country music.

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Speaker 1: Well, it all started. I'm from Memphis, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: two hundred miles west and south of Nashville, and we

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Speaker 1: were raised Memphians are sort of it's baked into your

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Speaker 1: childhood and you're upbringing to Haye Nashville. Yeah, it's part

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Speaker 1: of how you're raised. For instance, my parents, every fall

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Speaker 1: we would drive to Knoxville, where they attended school, and

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Speaker 1: we'd go to a Tennessee football game. And that's a

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Speaker 1: three hundred and eighty seven mile drive. So in eighteen years,

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Speaker 1: let's say we did it. I don't know, maybe sixteen

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Speaker 1: times in my childhood that that I can recall. And

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Speaker 1: so thirty two times through Nashville stopped zero times and

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Speaker 1: I forty goes right through the middle of town and

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Speaker 1: my dad would just say, there's a state capital.

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Speaker 3: Keep on moving.

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Speaker 1: So we grew up admiring. You know, there was some

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Speaker 1: country that that sort of leaked into my childhood. I

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Speaker 1: think there's perceptions of folks outside the South that like

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Speaker 1: everybody in the South was listening to country music. We

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Speaker 1: listened to Motown and Bob Dylan and Amy Grant, you know,

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Speaker 1: like it was this interesting mix of like gospel music

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Speaker 1: and you know, black soul music and then all the

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Speaker 1: my dad loved all the sort of contemporary seventies songwriter stuff,

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Speaker 1: and so there was not a lot of country music

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Speaker 1: in it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in my childhood.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit more about Memphis

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Speaker 3: in Nashville in your mind. What is the difference between

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Speaker 3: Memphis and Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Well, practically speaking, I mean, Memphis is a very it's

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Speaker 1: a hometown city, meaning that most of the people that

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Speaker 1: live there grew up there. I had family from there,

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Speaker 1: grew up in the surrounding, you know, one hundred mile radius,

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Speaker 1: Whereas Nashville attracts people from all over the country, especially

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Speaker 1: in the last fifteen to twenty years, and so it's

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Speaker 1: a much sort of more use. Those two realities create different,

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Speaker 1: very different cultures. In Memphis, everybody knows each other, and

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Speaker 1: you know, where'd you go to school and who do

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Speaker 1: you know. It's a bit of that small town, big

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Speaker 1: city experience, whereas in Nashville, so many young people move

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Speaker 1: there because of what the city can offer them, the

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Speaker 1: opportunities that may springboard out of living there, and then

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Speaker 1: it's a center for I mean the big employers in

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Speaker 1: Nashville or the music business and healthcare, which are both

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Speaker 1: sort of booming and transient jobs, whereas Memphis it's you know,

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Speaker 1: these big blue collar companies like FedEx and AutoZone, and

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Speaker 1: so just creates very different cultures. And then you know, racially,

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Speaker 1: Memphis is majority African American town. Nashville is very lily white,

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Speaker 1: you know, so they're just they're they're very different. My

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Speaker 1: favorite story to tell about about Nashville and I moved

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Speaker 1: there was Memphis is a great food town, especially cheap food,

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Speaker 1: you know Tomali's and barbecue and great unique pizza, and

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Speaker 1: it's just a very you know, being a river town

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Speaker 1: with a lot of transients over decades, so you get

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Speaker 1: a lot of unique food. And Nashville had basically nothing

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Speaker 1: that I that I wanted to eat, and I would

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Speaker 1: just complain to my wife. I was like, that's nice here.

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Speaker 1: I know you're from here, and that's why I moved here,

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Speaker 1: but there's nothing to eat here that I want to eat.

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Speaker 1: And then fast forward almost twenty years and it's one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest food towns, you know, in the country.

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Speaker 1: Everything's there now, so it's changing. It's it's a very

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Speaker 1: sort of evolving and fluid place.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you can explain my favorite joke. It's my favorite

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Speaker 3: joke because I feel it has many, many layers, many

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Speaker 3: of which I don't understand. Okay, it's a joke from

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Speaker 3: the Civil Rights Movement era. Black man in Detroit wakes

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Speaker 3: up in the middle of the night, it's one of

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Speaker 3: those people who come off from the South, you know,

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Speaker 3: and then turns to his wife and said, I had

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Speaker 3: a terrible dream, and she said, what happened? He said,

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Speaker 3: I dreamt that Jesus came to me and told me

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Speaker 3: to go to Birmingham. And she says, did Jesus say

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Speaker 3: go with you? He says, Jesus said it go as

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Speaker 3: far as Memphis.

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Speaker 1: That's a great joke, is it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's my favorite joke of all time. It is,

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Speaker 3: like I said, because it's a joke about Jesus who

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Speaker 3: said he would be with us always.

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Speaker 1: But but not in Birmingham.

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Speaker 3: Not Birmingham. It's a joke about Birmingham.

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Speaker 1: Like it's definitely a joke at the express dark Birmingham.

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Speaker 3: Dark dark joke. But like, why did Jesus stop at Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Well, because I mean, Jesus would love Memphis. There's there's

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Speaker 1: great food, there's great hospitality, there's great music. Like Jesus

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Speaker 1: would thrive there. Yeah, that was my experience. Jesus thrived

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Speaker 1: in Memphis.

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Speaker 3: You listened, well, I want to go back to that

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Speaker 3: mixture of things you were listening to as a kid, Motown,

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Speaker 3: Amy Grant, what.

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Speaker 1: Was the third one, Bob Dylan.

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Speaker 3: That's a fantastic and unusual mix of things to be

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Speaker 3: exposed to. This is is this your father or your

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Speaker 3: mother's doing? Let's push both both.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So my dad grew up in the in the

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Speaker 1: you know, my parents met in the third grade, and

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Speaker 1: so they they grew up seven or eight like blocks

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Speaker 1: from each other. So there's this very sort of I'm

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Speaker 1: one of twenty eight grandkids. It's like a very yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot going on there that's just on my

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Speaker 1: mom's side, that include my dad's side.

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Speaker 3: So wait, there's twenty eight grand kids on your mom's side.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, and I'm number fourteen or fifteen, I

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Speaker 1: can remember, but yeah, yeah, so very like it'd be

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Speaker 1: hard to overstate how sort of like central Christianity and

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Speaker 1: religion was to my upbringing. Part of that was that

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Speaker 1: when I was apparently when I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know how old, three four five years old, someone

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Speaker 1: from the church came to my parents' house and they

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Speaker 1: were everybody in their church was doing like a record

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Speaker 1: clean out of things in their house that weren't honoring

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Speaker 1: to God, and so they would get rid of all

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Speaker 1: these records that when I heard about this in high school,

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Speaker 1: I wept. I was like, oh, Dad, you had all

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Speaker 1: of these great records and original copies that they made

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Speaker 1: there out because it was the Devil's music that was

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Speaker 1: really too bad. You know, a lot of led Zeppelin

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Speaker 1: got thrown out and things like that. You know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on, yeah, gotta get rid of it, which we could.

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Speaker 1: We'll come back to this. But my first record I

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Speaker 1: ever bought was Pearl Jams ten. I was eleven year

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Speaker 1: I actually got it for Christmas from Santa Claus and

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Speaker 1: my dad broke the record by five pm on Christmas

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Speaker 1: Day because we had to go through the liner notes

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Speaker 1: together and there's drug references and he's like, you're you're

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Speaker 1: too young for this and break. So this was you know,

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Speaker 1: an intense an intense scene, but that some of the

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Speaker 1: things that made it through the gauntlet was Bob Dylan's

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Speaker 1: evangelical records of course, you know, slow Train Coming Saved

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Speaker 1: and there's another one. And then because he still made

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Speaker 1: it in there somehow his old records also got a pass.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, got grandfather in Yeah, and he was Jewish, so

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Speaker 3: there's like a thing.

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Speaker 1: There too, you know, you're allowed to have records made

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Speaker 1: by Jewish artists. So and then Motown was like it

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Speaker 1: was all you could listen to Motown except for like,

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Speaker 1: what's the you know, the great the market record. I'm

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Speaker 1: just blanking on off course, well yeah, yeah, but the

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Speaker 1: name of the record, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: What's going on?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Oh, which sexual healing would have.

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Speaker 1: Been was on that record, wasn't it?

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Speaker 3: You know, what's going on is earlier? Sex I was saying,

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Speaker 3: sexually is so far beyond.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you can only hear that the only

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Speaker 1: the only way you could hear that in my childhood

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Speaker 1: was at a wedding by the by the cover band

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Speaker 1: you know, and and so, and it still felt awkward

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Speaker 1: for everybody, but so, yeah, there was so then any

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Speaker 1: Christian music was okay. Bob Dylan was okay, and motown

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Speaker 1: was okay because it was just a bunch of love

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Speaker 1: songs and clean oldies stuff, you know, before the music

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Speaker 1: business cut. You know, Amy messed up.

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Speaker 3: Can you explain to a heathen New York City audience

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Speaker 3: who Amy Grant is and why she's important?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Amy Grant was sort of I mean, the whole

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Speaker 1: genre of contemporary Christian music was there was Southern gospel,

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Speaker 1: which is a whole different thing. So it's basically take

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Speaker 1: the songwriter model, and people started applying it to their

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Speaker 1: faith stories, which this all predates the whole Now, the

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Speaker 1: big thing is all this big ensemble worship stuff, which

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Speaker 1: was basically like every all these church bands trying to

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Speaker 1: sound like coldplaying you two. So Amy Grant was like

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Speaker 1: this young songwriter and she was. They created an old

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Speaker 1: radio sort of format around artists like her, and she

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Speaker 1: became the most famous and successful. And then she had

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Speaker 1: a crossover pop hit called Baby Baby that sort of

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Speaker 1: sent her into regular superstardom. And yeah, she was just

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Speaker 1: a very beloved woman, and she's she's also as a human,

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Speaker 1: she's like, she's honestly one of the greatest ones I've

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Speaker 1: ever met. You know, her, I know her because my

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Speaker 1: wife knew her. But I moved to Nashville again sort

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Speaker 1: of like country and Christian music. This town sucks, you know,

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Speaker 1: And then I got to know these people. I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: these people are all really great. This is tough.

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Speaker 3: Wait what so wait? What what denomination were your parents?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? They they were They went to like an independent

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Speaker 1: Bible church. Yeah, so it was non denominational. It's very

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Speaker 1: they're very proud of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I was asking you about other music that that

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Speaker 3: that made it in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think basically my parents were pretty okay with

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Speaker 1: all the class So we would go see you know,

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Speaker 1: you could go see Paul Simon. They built the Pyramid

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Speaker 1: in Memphis when I was a kid, which was a

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Speaker 1: new arena where the Memphis Tigers played, And so I

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Speaker 1: got a job there in high school as a part

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Speaker 1: of the event staff. And so I got to see

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Speaker 1: all these concerts for free by telling people to stop smoking,

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Speaker 1: you know, and had my little yellow shirt on, and

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Speaker 1: you know, anything from boys to men as easy Top

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Speaker 1: to whatever could sell fifteen thousand tickets. I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: exposed to at a certain point that sort of the

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Speaker 1: rules weren't really that well enforced. It was a sort

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Speaker 1: of a young when we were young, it was very

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Speaker 1: much that way. But our alarm clock every day growing

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Speaker 1: up was my mom played piano and she would play

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Speaker 1: hymns like that was get up and go to school.

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Speaker 1: It was like up from the Gravey Rolls. You know.

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Speaker 1: She was like a whole her like whole play on

336
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Speaker 1: get up and go to school. You know.

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Speaker 3: But that's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was great. Yeah, daily sense of humor. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I have a theory which I very grandiosely call Gladwell's

340
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Speaker 3: theory of asymmetrical parenting, which is that at any given moment,

341
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Speaker 3: when we account for our parental influence on our lives,

342
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Speaker 3: we only talk about one parent. It can change over time,

343
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Speaker 3: but you try to sound on somebody. You ask somebody, yeah,

344
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Speaker 3: so what are your parents? People will never talk about

345
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Speaker 3: their parents. They will the minute you dig into it.

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Speaker 3: They only talk about one for a while. So I

347
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Speaker 3: would like you to give me an asymmetrical parental theory

348
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Speaker 3: of the jew Holcomb childhood.

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Speaker 1: I completely disagree with that theory.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that you only get only one matter.

351
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Speaker 3: I'm saying that at any given moment, only one matters.

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Speaker 1: In a particular story.

353
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Speaker 3: Toggling, right, So it may be from you know, in

354
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Speaker 3: high school, it's only your mom, and then in college

355
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Speaker 3: it's only a year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I my parents are going to listen to this probably,

357
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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the whole point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I think we were actually talking earlier back

360
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Speaker 1: backstage about how as dads you sometimes get this free

361
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Speaker 1: pass that it's almost like, and I've seen this. I

362
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Speaker 1: have three children that, especially with my daughter, she sort

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Speaker 1: of defaults to dad, You're doing great, You're awesome, even

364
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Speaker 1: if my wife Ellie has done all of the hard

365
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Speaker 1: work that day in the parenting space. So with that said,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's probably true in a lot of

367
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Speaker 1: ways that my dad had sort of an outside influence.

368
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Speaker 1: What did your dad do well? He was a dentist

369
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Speaker 1: and then he hated it so he quit and became

370
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Speaker 1: a financial advisor. Seriously true story.

371
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Speaker 3: This reminds me my one of my favorite stories about

372
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Speaker 3: a friend of mine whose dad was an investment banker

373
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Speaker 3: and he once had a long heart to heart with

374
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Speaker 3: his daughter and my friend about how he felt his

375
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Speaker 3: career had been misspent and he made a series of

376
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Speaker 3: terrible choices and he had squattered his life in a

377
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Speaker 3: profession with no meaning. And she was very moved by

378
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Speaker 3: this because she didn't realize her father had this other side.

379
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Speaker 3: And she said, Dad, so what do you think you

380
00:22:35,276 --> 00:22:38,316
Speaker 3: should have been? And he says, I think I should

381
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Speaker 3: have been a tax attorney. That's kind of like kind

382
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Speaker 3: of what you're hearing here is kind of like, but

383
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Speaker 3: your dad did.

384
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, he said that he was just very he

385
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Speaker 1: was very sort of bored by the monotony of dentistry

386
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Speaker 1: and now he's he's very extrovert, and he was trying

387
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Speaker 1: to have conversations with people and they couldn't because you know.

388
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Speaker 3: Oh, he was one of those annoying dennists who's like

389
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Speaker 3: asking you questions and you.

390
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Speaker 1: Well, and I think, honestly, I think it was a

391
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Speaker 1: It was a serious crossroads for him because he'd spent

392
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Speaker 1: he put himself through dental school selling jewelry out of

393
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Speaker 1: a tackle box. This is like he he worked his

394
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Speaker 1: way really hard to get himself this you know, job,

395
00:23:26,276 --> 00:23:29,716
Speaker 1: and and this career. But then a decade in he

396
00:23:29,796 --> 00:23:33,716
Speaker 1: realized how much he really did not enjoy it and

397
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Speaker 1: found a way out of it. Took him. It was

398
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Speaker 1: it wasn't like an immediate transition. He went to one

399
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Speaker 1: day a week to doing the other thing, to two

400
00:23:39,996 --> 00:23:41,556
Speaker 1: days a week doing the other thing, to half and half,

401
00:23:41,596 --> 00:23:44,476
Speaker 1: and then eventually, when I was in high school, sold

402
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Speaker 1: this practice and went the full time the other direction.

403
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Speaker 1: He loved music, and he had wanted to pursue music

404
00:23:51,076 --> 00:23:52,396
Speaker 1: in high school. He wanted to be in a like

405
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Speaker 1: in a in a garage band. And his dad, who

406
00:23:54,916 --> 00:23:58,076
Speaker 1: was even more strict, you know than my parents' generation,

407
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Speaker 1: you know, he has a story, he says. He tells

408
00:24:00,956 --> 00:24:03,116
Speaker 1: the story about my grandfather. They're driving in the car

409
00:24:03,196 --> 00:24:08,436
Speaker 1: and my grandfather smoked cigarettes non stop and Bill Withers

410
00:24:08,556 --> 00:24:10,316
Speaker 1: Lean on Me was on the radio and Dad was

411
00:24:10,316 --> 00:24:13,036
Speaker 1: like fourteen years old in the passenger seat, and it's

412
00:24:13,076 --> 00:24:15,076
Speaker 1: that part of the song where if you need a friend,

413
00:24:15,236 --> 00:24:20,676
Speaker 1: call me, you just call me. And my grandfa was

414
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Speaker 1: a jazz guy. He hated popular music. He said, finally

415
00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:26,316
Speaker 1: takes a dragon cigarette after about this the seventh or

416
00:24:26,356 --> 00:24:27,996
Speaker 1: eighth to call me, and he goes, well, just call him,

417
00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:34,516
Speaker 1: damn it. So he had this like weird relationship where

418
00:24:34,556 --> 00:24:40,676
Speaker 1: his father squashed his creative dreams. And so I think

419
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Speaker 1: when I sort of showed interest in this he he

420
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Speaker 1: sort of just launched fully in with me. Oh really, yeah,

421
00:24:49,716 --> 00:24:51,236
Speaker 1: you know, the first thing I told him I wanted

422
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Speaker 1: to pursue music. I had like an okay guitar, and

423
00:24:55,356 --> 00:24:57,156
Speaker 1: he's like, well, let's go to the guitar shop. Let's

424
00:24:57,196 --> 00:25:00,196
Speaker 1: get you let's get you something nice. You know, if

425
00:25:00,196 --> 00:25:01,596
Speaker 1: you're really going to work hard at it, I'm in

426
00:25:01,636 --> 00:25:02,116
Speaker 1: your corner.

427
00:25:02,556 --> 00:25:02,756
Speaker 3: Yeah.

428
00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:04,116
Speaker 1: That was his two rules, where if you're going to

429
00:25:04,156 --> 00:25:06,476
Speaker 1: work hard at it, and then he said, and promise

430
00:25:06,596 --> 00:25:08,476
Speaker 1: me that if it's not working, you'll know when to

431
00:25:08,516 --> 00:25:10,196
Speaker 1: walk away move on with your life. And he could

432
00:25:10,196 --> 00:25:13,076
Speaker 1: say that from experience because he walked away from something.

433
00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:15,436
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't just stick with the career that

434
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Speaker 1: he chose as a nineteen year old, really because he

435
00:25:17,996 --> 00:25:21,196
Speaker 1: started dental school. Back then, you didn't have to get

436
00:25:21,236 --> 00:25:22,596
Speaker 1: a college degree to go to dental school. You just

437
00:25:22,596 --> 00:25:24,516
Speaker 1: had to get the prerecs, which he did in three

438
00:25:24,516 --> 00:25:26,636
Speaker 1: semesters and then started dental school as a nineteen year old.

439
00:25:27,236 --> 00:25:29,236
Speaker 3: So did you play another song?

440
00:25:29,356 --> 00:25:39,716
Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure, all right, since this is sort of symmetrical. Asymmetrical,

441
00:25:40,196 --> 00:25:42,236
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go down the street to my grandparents' house.

442
00:25:45,836 --> 00:25:47,916
Speaker 1: I grew up five doors down the street from my grandfather,

443
00:25:47,996 --> 00:25:51,756
Speaker 1: who was this sort of lion of a man. He

444
00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:55,756
Speaker 1: was a bit of a big fish personality. He would

445
00:25:55,756 --> 00:25:57,556
Speaker 1: tell these stories. He didn't know how much of it

446
00:25:57,596 --> 00:26:00,836
Speaker 1: was true and how much of it was fiction. Lived

447
00:26:00,836 --> 00:26:05,596
Speaker 1: a very interesting life. Was a surgeon, was the chief

448
00:26:06,276 --> 00:26:10,596
Speaker 1: of surgery in Tokyo immediately following World War II. Operated

449
00:26:10,636 --> 00:26:16,796
Speaker 1: on Admiral Dagano two weeks before he was executed. Like

450
00:26:16,836 --> 00:26:19,196
Speaker 1: he just has these like wild stories in his life,

451
00:26:20,116 --> 00:26:21,836
Speaker 1: and one of them was that he told his story

452
00:26:21,876 --> 00:26:24,116
Speaker 1: about how he went to England with his friend who

453
00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:28,836
Speaker 1: raised Labrador retrievers, who got invited to this dog trial

454
00:26:28,836 --> 00:26:32,436
Speaker 1: at the Queen's of State, and so he went and

455
00:26:32,436 --> 00:26:34,236
Speaker 1: he was very old and couldn't walk around very well,

456
00:26:34,276 --> 00:26:36,436
Speaker 1: and he came back with this wild story about how

457
00:26:36,476 --> 00:26:39,556
Speaker 1: he got to ride around the Queen's of State in

458
00:26:39,636 --> 00:26:44,036
Speaker 1: the Queen's Land River with her driving it, and we

459
00:26:44,036 --> 00:26:49,596
Speaker 1: were all like, sure, you know, sure you did. And

460
00:26:49,676 --> 00:26:51,916
Speaker 1: he passed away about six years later, and we got

461
00:26:52,556 --> 00:26:56,956
Speaker 1: a letter from the queens Secretary sending her regrets of

462
00:26:56,996 --> 00:26:59,436
Speaker 1: his passing and sharing how much the queen enjoyed the

463
00:26:59,516 --> 00:27:05,236
Speaker 1: day she spent with him driving around her estate. In

464
00:27:05,716 --> 00:27:06,756
Speaker 1: her land Rover, So.

465
00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:09,436
Speaker 3: There you go.

466
00:27:09,676 --> 00:27:12,036
Speaker 1: I wrote this song about him many years after he died.

467
00:27:13,276 --> 00:27:16,956
Speaker 1: He just had a huge influence on me, and songs

468
00:27:16,996 --> 00:27:17,716
Speaker 1: called dragons.

469
00:27:23,636 --> 00:27:25,316
Speaker 6: I was climbing the mountain.

470
00:27:26,996 --> 00:27:32,276
Speaker 5: A sleep in the moonlight goes to my grandpa came

471
00:27:32,356 --> 00:27:37,036
Speaker 5: to me in a dream. As a star hung above us,

472
00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:42,676
Speaker 5: he started singing this chorus. He laughed loud as head

473
00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:48,796
Speaker 5: and said this to me. Take a few chances.

474
00:27:49,076 --> 00:27:55,036
Speaker 4: A few early rommanss, go swimming in the ocean on

475
00:27:55,396 --> 00:28:00,196
Speaker 4: New Year's Day. Don't listen to the critics.

476
00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:02,316
Speaker 6: Stand up bed.

477
00:28:02,436 --> 00:28:07,116
Speaker 8: Witness, go slay all the dragons.

478
00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:08,236
Speaker 6: That stand in your wing.

479
00:28:13,596 --> 00:28:15,596
Speaker 1: You stayed up and talked until the sunrise.

480
00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:18,276
Speaker 7: Of war and love and sorrow.

481
00:28:19,276 --> 00:28:24,236
Speaker 5: He said, stop spending all your money on forgiveness of sins.

482
00:28:24,996 --> 00:28:31,156
Speaker 5: Today's all you've promised. Don't trouble with tomorrow. He faded

483
00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:35,476
Speaker 5: into the forest, proudly singing this hymn.

484
00:28:36,636 --> 00:28:42,796
Speaker 4: Take a few chances, a few early rommances, go swimming

485
00:28:42,956 --> 00:28:46,956
Speaker 4: in the ocean all New Year's Day.

486
00:28:47,676 --> 00:28:50,036
Speaker 6: Don't listen to the critics.

487
00:28:50,436 --> 00:28:53,236
Speaker 7: Stand up bell winness.

488
00:28:53,276 --> 00:28:58,436
Speaker 8: Go slay all the dragons that stand in your roy.

489
00:29:24,476 --> 00:29:25,756
Speaker 1: Woke up with a fever.

490
00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:32,236
Speaker 5: Surrounded by lightning. All my windows were open. I let

491
00:29:32,236 --> 00:29:38,036
Speaker 5: the rain flooding. The past felt like the present, with

492
00:29:38,196 --> 00:29:44,916
Speaker 5: the future uncertain, a sing like a speral lost.

493
00:29:44,636 --> 00:29:48,396
Speaker 6: In the wind.

494
00:29:48,436 --> 00:29:55,076
Speaker 4: Take a few chances, you earthy romances, go swimming in

495
00:29:55,156 --> 00:30:01,836
Speaker 4: the ocean. All New Year's damon. Don't listen to the critics.

496
00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:06,716
Speaker 4: Stand up in bed, witness, go slay all the.

497
00:30:06,756 --> 00:30:14,476
Speaker 8: Dragons that standing your way, go sway the drags that

498
00:30:15,076 --> 00:30:17,916
Speaker 8: stand in you.

499
00:30:17,956 --> 00:30:30,716
Speaker 6: Wa mm hmm.

500
00:30:34,556 --> 00:30:34,996
Speaker 1: Thank you.

501
00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:37,636
Speaker 3: Incredibly beautiful tribute.

502
00:30:37,916 --> 00:30:40,276
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, he's a beautiful man.

503
00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:50,276
Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Let's talk a little bit about, uh,

504
00:30:50,716 --> 00:30:55,236
Speaker 3: the role of faith in your life and work. Okay, yeah,

505
00:30:55,356 --> 00:30:58,316
Speaker 3: you so you grew up in a very religious family.

506
00:30:59,556 --> 00:31:03,316
Speaker 3: You went to seminary in Scotland. Tell me about that.

507
00:31:03,436 --> 00:31:08,516
Speaker 1: Yes, I I think I've always sort of grown up.

508
00:31:09,316 --> 00:31:10,476
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people that grew up in

509
00:31:10,516 --> 00:31:12,396
Speaker 1: a world that I grew up in sort of either

510
00:31:13,396 --> 00:31:17,636
Speaker 1: chose to just join into that space as adults, or

511
00:31:17,676 --> 00:31:19,836
Speaker 1: they sort of run the other direction and go through

512
00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:24,756
Speaker 1: a deconstruction phase where they, you know, on a spectrum

513
00:31:24,756 --> 00:31:28,676
Speaker 1: of sort of kindness to full vitriol. They depart from

514
00:31:28,716 --> 00:31:33,636
Speaker 1: that space and instead I tried to navigate sort of

515
00:31:33,676 --> 00:31:36,796
Speaker 1: a third way, which is I didn't have a personal

516
00:31:36,836 --> 00:31:39,996
Speaker 1: experience with faith that sort of mirrored what I was

517
00:31:40,036 --> 00:31:42,356
Speaker 1: told it was going to be like, and that it

518
00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:44,556
Speaker 1: would bring all this meaning and stuff to my life.

519
00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:47,676
Speaker 1: And when I was seventeen, my brother passed away. He

520
00:31:48,316 --> 00:31:50,396
Speaker 1: was born a spine of and had all sorts of

521
00:31:50,436 --> 00:31:52,676
Speaker 1: health issues, but still suddenly out of nowhere. I was

522
00:31:52,676 --> 00:31:55,516
Speaker 1: out of the country when happened on doing like a

523
00:31:55,516 --> 00:31:59,316
Speaker 1: summer of Spanish immersion in the American Republic, and it

524
00:31:59,356 --> 00:32:02,596
Speaker 1: passed away and got home. All the sacraments and words

525
00:32:02,636 --> 00:32:06,636
Speaker 1: and instruments and communities of faith were sort of bubbled

526
00:32:06,716 --> 00:32:09,516
Speaker 1: up in me, and it wasn't making sense for me.

527
00:32:09,636 --> 00:32:12,556
Speaker 1: So I had sort of a crisis of faith, and

528
00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:15,596
Speaker 1: instead of turning away from it, I was still sort

529
00:32:15,596 --> 00:32:17,916
Speaker 1: of trying to figure it out. But music was really

530
00:32:17,916 --> 00:32:19,916
Speaker 1: the thing that kind of helped me make sense of

531
00:32:19,916 --> 00:32:21,836
Speaker 1: my life. I'll never forget. There were two records in

532
00:32:21,876 --> 00:32:26,916
Speaker 1: particular in that era. One was Van Morrison's Moondance. The

533
00:32:26,956 --> 00:32:30,036
Speaker 1: other one was David Gray's White Ladder that I was

534
00:32:30,156 --> 00:32:32,876
Speaker 1: just drive in my car and just listen to these

535
00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:36,836
Speaker 1: records and sob and those records weren't even necessarily about grief,

536
00:32:36,836 --> 00:32:40,996
Speaker 1: but they were grief records for me and so but

537
00:32:41,036 --> 00:32:44,756
Speaker 1: I also didn't My experience with faith and the faith

538
00:32:44,756 --> 00:32:47,876
Speaker 1: community was that while I was struggling to believe what

539
00:32:47,916 --> 00:32:49,836
Speaker 1: they told me was the right thing to believe, I

540
00:32:49,876 --> 00:32:52,156
Speaker 1: also was experiencing a lot of love and affection from

541
00:32:52,196 --> 00:32:54,956
Speaker 1: them and had from a young age. And so a

542
00:32:54,956 --> 00:32:57,716
Speaker 1: lot of people's hurt and deconstruction is fed off of

543
00:32:57,756 --> 00:33:02,236
Speaker 1: abuse or mistreatment or you know, and that was not

544
00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:04,436
Speaker 1: my experience, and so I couldn't have that same sort

545
00:33:04,476 --> 00:33:08,476
Speaker 1: of departure because I was loved well. And so it's

546
00:33:08,476 --> 00:33:10,436
Speaker 1: created this really interesting tension in me because I was

547
00:33:10,476 --> 00:33:14,036
Speaker 1: also expanding the way my worldview is expanding in ways

548
00:33:14,076 --> 00:33:16,636
Speaker 1: that didn't line up with a lot of what I

549
00:33:16,676 --> 00:33:19,076
Speaker 1: grew up around. But also we're talking about it, you know,

550
00:33:19,196 --> 00:33:21,276
Speaker 1: it's easy to lump people into these categories, and really

551
00:33:21,276 --> 00:33:24,116
Speaker 1: the spectrum of people who helped raise me, they all

552
00:33:24,156 --> 00:33:26,876
Speaker 1: have different different sort of spectrum of beliefs about different things,

553
00:33:26,876 --> 00:33:33,476
Speaker 1: whether cultural, cosmic, theological, cultural, political, et cetera. So I

554
00:33:33,516 --> 00:33:37,836
Speaker 1: don't want to speak about that community as one monolith,

555
00:33:37,956 --> 00:33:42,396
Speaker 1: but at the same time where what I was finding

556
00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:44,556
Speaker 1: and who I was becoming was getting farther from that.

557
00:33:45,756 --> 00:33:47,316
Speaker 1: And part of the way I part of that was

558
00:33:47,356 --> 00:33:50,756
Speaker 1: going to seminary. I went to Scotland. They had a

559
00:33:50,756 --> 00:33:52,796
Speaker 1: program at Saint Andrew's University, or I could go for

560
00:33:53,036 --> 00:33:55,796
Speaker 1: two weeks a semester twice a year and then write

561
00:33:55,836 --> 00:33:59,276
Speaker 1: my papers. And so you know, I was just I

562
00:33:59,316 --> 00:34:01,556
Speaker 1: was searching, but I was enjoying the search. You know.

563
00:34:01,596 --> 00:34:03,436
Speaker 1: It was like it was less of a like frantic

564
00:34:03,796 --> 00:34:06,396
Speaker 1: looking for the lost keys when you're trying to get

565
00:34:06,396 --> 00:34:08,396
Speaker 1: out of the house, and more of a like I

566
00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:10,196
Speaker 1: just want to keep look at I'm finding a lot

567
00:34:10,196 --> 00:34:12,556
Speaker 1: of interesting things. I'm reading a lot of interesting people.

568
00:34:13,396 --> 00:34:17,996
Speaker 1: Just allowed myself to engage in reading and in music

569
00:34:18,076 --> 00:34:21,276
Speaker 1: and in ways that was sort of open to it

570
00:34:21,316 --> 00:34:23,316
Speaker 1: instead of looking for a fight. And that's sort of

571
00:34:23,396 --> 00:34:25,996
Speaker 1: the way I would say that I was raised is

572
00:34:26,036 --> 00:34:28,956
Speaker 1: that the church in that era, the school that I

573
00:34:28,996 --> 00:34:31,956
Speaker 1: went to, was a wall and is more of a

574
00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:34,236
Speaker 1: wall and less of a bridge. It's more about protecting

575
00:34:35,476 --> 00:34:37,716
Speaker 1: the flock instead of building a bridge to the world.

576
00:34:37,876 --> 00:34:40,036
Speaker 1: And I would say my faith now is much more

577
00:34:40,076 --> 00:34:42,276
Speaker 1: of like I just want to be a bridge Builder.

578
00:34:42,996 --> 00:34:45,876
Speaker 1: But I haven't necessarily, I haven't rejected some of the

579
00:34:45,876 --> 00:34:48,796
Speaker 1: sort of central teachings of Christian Orthodoxy. But I have

580
00:34:48,876 --> 00:34:54,756
Speaker 1: certainly rejected sort of American evangelical culture. And that's cost

581
00:34:54,796 --> 00:34:56,116
Speaker 1: me a lot of fans. But that's okay.

582
00:34:57,956 --> 00:35:00,236
Speaker 3: Memphis to Scotland is a long way.

583
00:35:00,436 --> 00:35:03,836
Speaker 1: Yeah. My senior high school English teacher took a trip

584
00:35:03,876 --> 00:35:06,516
Speaker 1: every year to the UK and the first place we

585
00:35:06,556 --> 00:35:10,596
Speaker 1: went with Scotland, and that immediately, within three days on

586
00:35:10,596 --> 00:35:12,196
Speaker 1: that trip, I said, I'm going to study abroad here.

587
00:35:12,396 --> 00:35:18,396
Speaker 1: This place is Edinburgh's just this wonderland. And you know,

588
00:35:18,436 --> 00:35:23,596
Speaker 1: I loved English literature, I loved English history, you know,

589
00:35:23,636 --> 00:35:26,516
Speaker 1: and honestly, like the South was settled by Scott's, so

590
00:35:27,116 --> 00:35:28,636
Speaker 1: a lot of it, you know. So there was like

591
00:35:30,236 --> 00:35:32,356
Speaker 1: when Brave Feart came out, every Southerner in the world

592
00:35:32,396 --> 00:35:33,596
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you know.

593
00:35:36,876 --> 00:35:39,556
Speaker 3: Was there any about the music of Scotland that appealed.

594
00:35:39,196 --> 00:35:41,436
Speaker 1: To Yeah, yeah, there's a There was a there was

595
00:35:41,476 --> 00:35:46,116
Speaker 1: a pub down the street from my flat, Sandy Bell

596
00:35:46,596 --> 00:35:48,836
Speaker 1: was the name of it, and every night they had

597
00:35:48,876 --> 00:35:54,436
Speaker 1: traditional Scottish music, you know, people playing instruments. I didn't

598
00:35:54,436 --> 00:35:56,156
Speaker 1: even know what they were, but they buy these traditional

599
00:35:56,196 --> 00:35:59,876
Speaker 1: Scottish folk songs and they're always in with loch Lomand you.

600
00:36:00,156 --> 00:36:02,756
Speaker 4: Take the high Rule and I'll take the little Ruin

601
00:36:02,796 --> 00:36:06,236
Speaker 4: and I'll be in Scotland before you For me and

602
00:36:06,436 --> 00:36:09,676
Speaker 4: my true lover. They're to meet again on the Bonnie

603
00:36:09,796 --> 00:36:11,316
Speaker 4: Bonnie banks of loch Loo.

604
00:36:13,596 --> 00:36:15,556
Speaker 1: I was like, that's in the quarter, crying about me

605
00:36:15,636 --> 00:36:17,596
Speaker 1: and this mythical woman I'm going to meet at the

606
00:36:17,636 --> 00:36:18,836
Speaker 1: Bonnie Banks of Loch Loman.

607
00:36:20,916 --> 00:36:22,196
Speaker 3: Scottish accent's pretty good.

608
00:36:23,196 --> 00:36:25,596
Speaker 1: We got a lot of practice. My kids are always

609
00:36:25,636 --> 00:36:29,796
Speaker 1: asking for it. But there's something about the Scottish weather

610
00:36:29,956 --> 00:36:32,756
Speaker 1: in the story that sort of that's where I started

611
00:36:32,756 --> 00:36:37,636
Speaker 1: writing songs. I was still sort of in the throes

612
00:36:37,796 --> 00:36:44,476
Speaker 1: of my grief and I was trying to process that grief,

613
00:36:44,556 --> 00:36:49,116
Speaker 1: and so as a student, I decided my senior thesis

614
00:36:49,196 --> 00:36:53,276
Speaker 1: at in my program was going to be an oral

615
00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:58,116
Speaker 1: history about my brother's life and death from everybody that

616
00:36:58,196 --> 00:37:01,396
Speaker 1: knew him, and sort of the question was why does

617
00:37:01,476 --> 00:37:07,556
Speaker 1: a severely handicapped child have such like so, because when

618
00:37:07,556 --> 00:37:09,556
Speaker 1: he passed away, there were like two thousand people funeral

619
00:37:09,996 --> 00:37:12,356
Speaker 1: two thousand. Yeah, there were like one hundred nurses from

620
00:37:12,356 --> 00:37:14,116
Speaker 1: the hospital that had met him over the last fifteen

621
00:37:14,196 --> 00:37:17,556
Speaker 1: years came, and school, the entire elementary school he went to,

622
00:37:17,876 --> 00:37:21,516
Speaker 1: had a day out of school and they all came. Yeah.

623
00:37:21,516 --> 00:37:24,916
Speaker 1: It was this incredible celebration of a very short but

624
00:37:25,076 --> 00:37:30,476
Speaker 1: very sort of thorough life. And so my sort of

625
00:37:30,476 --> 00:37:33,116
Speaker 1: analytical side of my brain with the creative side of

626
00:37:33,156 --> 00:37:34,556
Speaker 1: my brain, was like, what if I just wrote an

627
00:37:34,636 --> 00:37:37,836
Speaker 1: oral history of his life and interviewed s, doctors, teachers,

628
00:37:37,876 --> 00:37:40,596
Speaker 1: his neighbors, his cousins, and why did Jay matter so

629
00:37:40,716 --> 00:37:42,796
Speaker 1: much to you? So I was working on that in

630
00:37:42,836 --> 00:37:45,876
Speaker 1: Scotland and that's when I started writing songs because I

631
00:37:46,316 --> 00:37:48,436
Speaker 1: didn't really know anybody. I always say that at that

632
00:37:48,556 --> 00:37:51,276
Speaker 1: time I was alone. I wasn't necessarily lonely, but I

633
00:37:51,396 --> 00:37:55,036
Speaker 1: was alone, and I had taken my guitar and I

634
00:37:55,156 --> 00:37:57,836
Speaker 1: just started writing. And when I got back home from

635
00:37:57,876 --> 00:38:01,076
Speaker 1: that semester, I started playing these songs for some friends,

636
00:38:01,196 --> 00:38:05,716
Speaker 1: and I think they were all expecting something completely different

637
00:38:05,716 --> 00:38:08,636
Speaker 1: from my life. I got laughed out a couple times

638
00:38:08,676 --> 00:38:10,956
Speaker 1: before the songs, like wait, you wrote songs, and I

639
00:38:11,116 --> 00:38:13,596
Speaker 1: know you play music, but like, aren't you going to

640
00:38:13,636 --> 00:38:18,036
Speaker 1: be like history lawyer guy or something? And I'm playing

641
00:38:18,076 --> 00:38:19,116
Speaker 1: these songs and they're like, oh, these.

642
00:38:19,036 --> 00:38:22,756
Speaker 3: Are what's the first song you wrote that You were proud.

643
00:38:22,516 --> 00:38:26,156
Speaker 1: Of a song called Nightingale that I don't remember, but

644
00:38:26,276 --> 00:38:33,236
Speaker 1: I do remember it being about my then friend and

645
00:38:33,356 --> 00:38:36,156
Speaker 1: much later became my wife, Ellie. But it was a

646
00:38:36,276 --> 00:38:38,236
Speaker 1: it was a heartbreak song because she she had she

647
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:41,916
Speaker 1: had sort of ripped the heart from my chest in

648
00:38:41,956 --> 00:38:42,876
Speaker 1: that era of my life.

649
00:38:43,076 --> 00:38:46,236
Speaker 3: So is that why you don't remember?

650
00:38:46,276 --> 00:38:49,236
Speaker 1: It's just a yeah, I got to move on from

651
00:38:49,276 --> 00:38:49,676
Speaker 1: that song.

652
00:38:50,196 --> 00:38:52,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't have forgotten all of it.

653
00:38:53,076 --> 00:39:00,876
Speaker 1: No, I mean that was something like, well, okay, this

654
00:39:00,996 --> 00:39:02,916
Speaker 1: is embarrassing. I do remember the first line.

655
00:39:09,556 --> 00:39:15,756
Speaker 9: Cinderella was a fairy tale one, that's true.

656
00:39:18,556 --> 00:39:20,076
Speaker 1: I don't remember where it went after that, but there

657
00:39:20,156 --> 00:39:24,196
Speaker 1: was something about she sang like a nightingale.

658
00:39:25,996 --> 00:39:27,916
Speaker 9: Something something that rhymes with true.

659
00:39:30,516 --> 00:39:33,476
Speaker 3: Wait, did you play this for her after she broke

660
00:39:33,556 --> 00:39:33,836
Speaker 3: up with you?

661
00:39:35,036 --> 00:39:37,156
Speaker 1: Well, you made an assumption there that we dated in

662
00:39:37,196 --> 00:39:37,756
Speaker 1: the first place.

663
00:39:41,316 --> 00:39:43,316
Speaker 3: At what point in the trajectory of you and Ellie

664
00:39:43,396 --> 00:39:44,276
Speaker 3: did she hear that song?

665
00:39:44,996 --> 00:39:46,636
Speaker 1: I mean pretty soon after I wrote it, but I

666
00:39:46,676 --> 00:39:49,396
Speaker 1: didn't tell her it was about her, you know, she.

667
00:39:49,476 --> 00:39:52,516
Speaker 3: Didn't figure it out. No, she did not Oh, come on.

668
00:39:52,636 --> 00:39:54,316
Speaker 1: Well that's according to her. That's you've talked to her

669
00:39:54,316 --> 00:39:57,796
Speaker 1: about that. But yeah, so that I mean, that was

670
00:39:58,476 --> 00:40:00,436
Speaker 1: that was the first song I sang and I was

671
00:40:00,516 --> 00:40:03,116
Speaker 1: playing it like for my buddies in college in college

672
00:40:03,156 --> 00:40:05,956
Speaker 1: and they're like, that's pretty good, you know. But that

673
00:40:06,276 --> 00:40:08,196
Speaker 1: that was before Scotland. That was the first song I wrote,

674
00:40:08,436 --> 00:40:11,596
Speaker 1: and Scotland's a We started writing songs that I I

675
00:40:11,636 --> 00:40:13,956
Speaker 1: don't know, just something started to click, but really I didn't.

676
00:40:14,116 --> 00:40:18,636
Speaker 1: It took me. I moved quickly into sort of what

677
00:40:18,716 --> 00:40:22,116
Speaker 1: I would call my twenty to twenty three year old

678
00:40:22,876 --> 00:40:27,636
Speaker 1: Steve ear Old Bruce Springsteen Ryan Adams imitation phase, where

679
00:40:27,636 --> 00:40:30,316
Speaker 1: I was really trying to write the rugged third person

680
00:40:31,596 --> 00:40:36,556
Speaker 1: minor chord songs and it wasn't me, but I needed

681
00:40:36,636 --> 00:40:39,876
Speaker 1: to do that to find to find my path. But

682
00:40:40,676 --> 00:40:42,916
Speaker 1: none of those songs are available on the internet.

683
00:40:42,716 --> 00:40:46,996
Speaker 3: Which which Spruce Springsteen. There are many Bruce Springsteen's. Which

684
00:40:47,036 --> 00:40:48,356
Speaker 3: is your favorite Bruce Springsteen?

685
00:40:48,996 --> 00:40:51,756
Speaker 1: Well, my favorite Bruce Springsteen is Greenings from Raspberry Park

686
00:40:52,516 --> 00:40:55,036
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen. But I like them all, but the one

687
00:40:55,076 --> 00:40:58,276
Speaker 1: I was imitating was like the Nebraska Tom Josey Nebraska.

688
00:40:58,476 --> 00:41:00,676
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to talk about Nebraska for a moment.

689
00:41:01,476 --> 00:41:04,116
Speaker 3: I because I was obsessed with that record.

690
00:41:04,396 --> 00:41:04,636
Speaker 1: Yeah.

691
00:41:05,076 --> 00:41:07,956
Speaker 3: And you know it's funny because music like that doesn't

692
00:41:08,076 --> 00:41:12,836
Speaker 3: just influence musicians, it influences writers.

693
00:41:13,236 --> 00:41:13,436
Speaker 1: Yeah.

694
00:41:13,556 --> 00:41:16,436
Speaker 3: And the song that I always came back to was

695
00:41:18,636 --> 00:41:20,036
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's called, but it's the one

696
00:41:20,236 --> 00:41:22,356
Speaker 3: about the guy who is a police officer.

697
00:41:22,236 --> 00:41:25,476
Speaker 1: How patrolman, hire patrolman. I played that song one hundred times.

698
00:41:25,716 --> 00:41:27,156
Speaker 3: Man turns his back on his family.

699
00:41:27,316 --> 00:41:28,916
Speaker 1: He just ain't no good, he just ain't no good.

700
00:41:29,796 --> 00:41:34,036
Speaker 3: That was like as a as a kind of template

701
00:41:34,276 --> 00:41:38,916
Speaker 3: for writing an emotionally powerful story. It's just stuck in

702
00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:39,316
Speaker 3: my head.

703
00:41:39,436 --> 00:41:39,636
Speaker 1: It was.

704
00:41:39,916 --> 00:41:43,516
Speaker 3: It's so that song is so beautifully constructed. Well can

705
00:41:43,556 --> 00:41:43,916
Speaker 3: you do you?

706
00:41:44,076 --> 00:41:44,316
Speaker 6: Can you?

707
00:41:44,716 --> 00:41:46,236
Speaker 3: Can you remember any of it? Can you calay?

708
00:41:46,276 --> 00:41:47,716
Speaker 1: I can play the chorus probably.

709
00:41:47,516 --> 00:41:50,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, play the chorus for those who don't know the

710
00:41:50,676 --> 00:41:52,676
Speaker 3: song this is it's I think it's one of his

711
00:41:53,716 --> 00:41:54,476
Speaker 3: finest songs.

712
00:41:56,676 --> 00:41:57,356
Speaker 1: I can do a part of it.

713
00:41:57,996 --> 00:41:59,756
Speaker 7: My name is Joe Roberts.

714
00:42:01,996 --> 00:42:03,316
Speaker 1: I work for the State.

715
00:42:04,756 --> 00:42:09,716
Speaker 5: Sergeant out of Burdenville, Bear snow Bury.

716
00:42:14,956 --> 00:42:16,516
Speaker 3: I've always been an honest man, an.

717
00:42:16,436 --> 00:42:19,076
Speaker 6: Honest man, honest as I could.

718
00:42:21,556 --> 00:42:24,796
Speaker 9: My brother named Frankie, and Frankie ain't no good?

719
00:42:25,556 --> 00:42:26,636
Speaker 3: Is it bad that I sing a lot?

720
00:42:28,836 --> 00:42:32,516
Speaker 1: That's the audience. But then you know, goes on.

721
00:42:33,796 --> 00:42:35,436
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're laughing and drinking.

722
00:42:36,476 --> 00:42:41,756
Speaker 4: Nothing feels better than blood on, blood, taking turns, dancing

723
00:42:41,836 --> 00:42:42,676
Speaker 4: with Maria.

724
00:42:43,876 --> 00:42:46,996
Speaker 9: The band plays nowt of the jostyle flood.

725
00:42:48,916 --> 00:42:50,596
Speaker 6: Catch him when he straight again?

726
00:42:50,956 --> 00:42:53,396
Speaker 1: Yep, any brother.

727
00:42:53,436 --> 00:42:55,436
Speaker 3: Would do, teach you how to walk that line.

728
00:42:55,436 --> 00:42:56,436
Speaker 1: It's two different courses.

729
00:42:56,596 --> 00:43:00,316
Speaker 3: Oh right, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, because.

730
00:43:00,076 --> 00:43:03,036
Speaker 1: Because my favorite is like any like any brother would

731
00:43:05,196 --> 00:43:08,556
Speaker 1: uh man turns his back on his family. Well, he

732
00:43:08,796 --> 00:43:13,156
Speaker 1: just ain't no good. Uh. And then there's this, uh

733
00:43:13,636 --> 00:43:16,236
Speaker 1: that line to me that that song. I love it

734
00:43:16,316 --> 00:43:17,796
Speaker 1: song for a lot of different reasons. If you know,

735
00:43:17,916 --> 00:43:19,956
Speaker 1: I'll just the song has been out for forty years,

736
00:43:19,956 --> 00:43:25,916
Speaker 1: so I spoiler alert. Basically you know this this the

737
00:43:26,476 --> 00:43:30,116
Speaker 1: narrator is a state trooper higher patrolman and his brother's

738
00:43:31,076 --> 00:43:35,436
Speaker 1: a mess and he ends up injuring possibly killing somebody

739
00:43:35,476 --> 00:43:37,196
Speaker 1: in a bar fight. And he gets called into the

740
00:43:37,236 --> 00:43:40,076
Speaker 1: scene and realizes his own brother and his brother he's

741
00:43:40,156 --> 00:43:43,436
Speaker 1: chasing him out of the state in Michigan, and uh,

742
00:43:45,036 --> 00:43:47,676
Speaker 1: and he lets him go into Canada, you know, and

743
00:43:47,796 --> 00:43:50,436
Speaker 1: lets him escape, and then he ends with that course

744
00:43:51,676 --> 00:43:53,316
Speaker 1: and turns it back on his family. He just says,

745
00:43:53,316 --> 00:43:56,716
Speaker 1: no good and uh, my brother, who's now been eight

746
00:43:56,756 --> 00:43:59,836
Speaker 1: years sober. There was a lot of years where that

747
00:43:59,996 --> 00:44:01,676
Speaker 1: was like, that was our dynamic.

748
00:44:02,196 --> 00:44:02,356
Speaker 5: You know.

749
00:44:02,596 --> 00:44:07,276
Speaker 1: I was the good rule following successful big brother and

750
00:44:07,356 --> 00:44:10,956
Speaker 1: he was the you know, he didn't't mind me saying that.

751
00:44:11,396 --> 00:44:13,916
Speaker 1: We were very close, but he turned his life around.

752
00:44:13,956 --> 00:44:15,316
Speaker 1: But I thought that was going to be my life.

753
00:44:15,436 --> 00:44:18,836
Speaker 1: Was like, I'm going to losen to his vice. And

754
00:44:18,916 --> 00:44:20,916
Speaker 1: so I'd play that song all nights when I hadn't

755
00:44:20,956 --> 00:44:24,356
Speaker 1: heard from him, and ill of that song. There's a

756
00:44:24,436 --> 00:44:26,676
Speaker 1: lot of emotion in here, a lot of emotion in

757
00:44:26,756 --> 00:44:34,116
Speaker 1: here in no in you. Oh yeah, I think that

758
00:44:34,236 --> 00:44:35,276
Speaker 1: was a compliment.

759
00:44:36,076 --> 00:44:38,476
Speaker 3: I did not. Just folks made I notice. But we

760
00:44:39,436 --> 00:44:41,476
Speaker 3: June I met a couple of months back then, and

761
00:44:41,516 --> 00:44:44,316
Speaker 3: the doing this thing which can't be described.

762
00:44:45,796 --> 00:44:48,436
Speaker 1: And it's a form of a variety show, a variety show.

763
00:44:48,436 --> 00:44:50,196
Speaker 3: We hung out together. It was on the bus with Drew,

764
00:44:50,276 --> 00:44:52,676
Speaker 3: among other things, and you said something. There are a

765
00:44:52,756 --> 00:44:56,436
Speaker 3: series of things I didn't know anything about you, and

766
00:44:56,716 --> 00:45:02,636
Speaker 3: you said something to me that just so surprised me,

767
00:45:03,036 --> 00:45:06,836
Speaker 3: and I would you said that. You just talked about

768
00:45:06,876 --> 00:45:15,196
Speaker 3: how you have a you have you get angry. Yeah,

769
00:45:17,316 --> 00:45:19,436
Speaker 3: and I didn't see that. I didn't see it in you.

770
00:45:20,436 --> 00:45:22,076
Speaker 3: And I was so surprised to hear that.

771
00:45:24,156 --> 00:45:25,996
Speaker 1: I was sort of taught growing up that anger is bad,

772
00:45:26,636 --> 00:45:29,556
Speaker 1: you know that. What I've since learned is that anger

773
00:45:29,636 --> 00:45:31,356
Speaker 1: is not bad. It's rage that's bad, which is like

774
00:45:31,436 --> 00:45:33,116
Speaker 1: sort of the that's not going to get all counselate

775
00:45:33,196 --> 00:45:34,996
Speaker 1: on you guys, but it's been a big part of

776
00:45:35,036 --> 00:45:37,556
Speaker 1: my journey as a as a person and as a musician.

777
00:45:38,916 --> 00:45:40,876
Speaker 1: It's not the anger that's bad. Angers like the red light,

778
00:45:41,196 --> 00:45:43,036
Speaker 1: you know, it's what you do with it. And so

779
00:45:43,076 --> 00:45:46,676
Speaker 1: I've learned, instead of getting sort of physically upset, is

780
00:45:46,756 --> 00:45:48,836
Speaker 1: to go, I'm so angry, what is it? It's usually

781
00:45:48,876 --> 00:45:52,196
Speaker 1: some sort of injustice. Either it's me or the world,

782
00:45:52,316 --> 00:45:56,596
Speaker 1: or my neighbor or my family, or is it's your

783
00:45:57,236 --> 00:46:00,796
Speaker 1: yellow light that's flashing that you're lonely or sad or hurt.

784
00:46:01,756 --> 00:46:05,036
Speaker 1: And so I've learned that it's like my superpower, Like

785
00:46:05,116 --> 00:46:06,676
Speaker 1: when I'm angry, I know that I know that I

786
00:46:06,756 --> 00:46:09,476
Speaker 1: got to figure out what's going on instead of trying

787
00:46:09,516 --> 00:46:11,436
Speaker 1: to Tampa down.

788
00:46:12,036 --> 00:46:15,076
Speaker 3: You know, have you ever written what is your what

789
00:46:15,236 --> 00:46:17,836
Speaker 3: is the angriest song? I have an idea that you've

790
00:46:17,836 --> 00:46:18,276
Speaker 3: ever written.

791
00:46:18,796 --> 00:46:22,956
Speaker 1: Oh that's great. It's a song called ring the Bells. Yes, okay,

792
00:46:22,996 --> 00:46:23,956
Speaker 1: you want to hear it? Yeah?

793
00:46:24,516 --> 00:46:25,876
Speaker 3: Wait, you have to give the context.

794
00:46:26,356 --> 00:46:32,836
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wrote this song with my I wrote the

795
00:46:32,916 --> 00:46:36,876
Speaker 1: song with my friends Avner and Amanda Ramirez. Abner is

796
00:46:36,916 --> 00:46:41,116
Speaker 1: a Cuban American. Amana is an African American. We wrote

797
00:46:41,116 --> 00:46:46,076
Speaker 1: the song together, I think three days after the Charlottesville

798
00:46:48,196 --> 00:46:54,556
Speaker 1: White supremacy rally, when some very famous sort of American

799
00:46:54,596 --> 00:46:58,516
Speaker 1: Christians were both sides in the situation, and we got

800
00:46:58,596 --> 00:47:00,036
Speaker 1: real pissed and wrote this song together.

801
00:47:09,836 --> 00:47:13,116
Speaker 7: Ring the bells this time, I mean it bed hatred

802
00:47:13,516 --> 00:47:14,116
Speaker 7: very well.

803
00:47:14,316 --> 00:47:17,516
Speaker 5: Give back the pieces of my Jesus to take your

804
00:47:17,676 --> 00:47:18,796
Speaker 5: counterfeit to hell.

805
00:47:19,436 --> 00:47:22,676
Speaker 6: Thang the drums. This means war, not the cow and

806
00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:23,556
Speaker 6: you waiting for.

807
00:47:24,236 --> 00:47:26,796
Speaker 7: We say mercy won't be rationed here.

808
00:47:27,036 --> 00:47:28,356
Speaker 6: It's what we're fighting for.

809
00:47:29,396 --> 00:47:32,636
Speaker 7: Their fall is fair and loving war, Then what the.

810
00:47:32,716 --> 00:47:34,196
Speaker 6: Hell is loving for?

811
00:47:39,116 --> 00:47:42,156
Speaker 4: If we can't sing it loud enough, we'll keep on

812
00:47:42,436 --> 00:47:43,236
Speaker 4: adding voice.

813
00:47:46,076 --> 00:47:53,836
Speaker 5: Ring the bell, Ring the bells, Ring the bells, ring.

814
00:47:57,916 --> 00:47:58,676
Speaker 1: Just a little bit of it.

815
00:48:02,716 --> 00:48:07,396
Speaker 3: That's that's what I that's the what I had in mind.

816
00:48:09,316 --> 00:48:11,916
Speaker 1: I was very angry when I wrote that song. Felt good.

817
00:48:12,756 --> 00:48:18,436
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny, it's it's you're you. You play it

818
00:48:18,556 --> 00:48:19,476
Speaker 3: like a man possessed.

819
00:48:22,236 --> 00:48:24,036
Speaker 1: Well, I was watching Daniel Tiger one time with my

820
00:48:24,156 --> 00:48:26,276
Speaker 1: daughter and there.

821
00:48:26,236 --> 00:48:28,916
Speaker 3: Was I just love to segue from yah possessed to

822
00:48:29,476 --> 00:48:32,276
Speaker 3: someone who there's a lot of It's very.

823
00:48:32,356 --> 00:48:35,716
Speaker 1: It's very related to what we're talking about. So there's

824
00:48:35,756 --> 00:48:40,156
Speaker 1: this scene where Danel gets upset and the mom says, Okay, Dane,

825
00:48:40,156 --> 00:48:42,316
Speaker 1: we'll learn a song. If you feel so mad that

826
00:48:42,436 --> 00:48:45,796
Speaker 1: you want to roar, take a deep breath, then count

827
00:48:45,876 --> 00:48:50,596
Speaker 1: to four. And I was like, I'm sorry, Lemmy Lop,

828
00:48:50,676 --> 00:48:52,596
Speaker 1: she's four years old. I'm like, that's not always true.

829
00:48:54,356 --> 00:48:57,356
Speaker 1: Sometimes what you need to do when you feel so

830
00:48:57,636 --> 00:49:04,476
Speaker 1: mad that you want to roar take a deep breath, Yes,

831
00:49:04,756 --> 00:49:07,796
Speaker 1: get it out. You don't stuff that stuff inside of you.

832
00:49:08,596 --> 00:49:11,236
Speaker 3: Will be right back with drews answers to the homework

833
00:49:11,276 --> 00:49:13,516
Speaker 3: assignment I gave him. I asked him to come up

834
00:49:13,556 --> 00:49:16,876
Speaker 3: with his five favorite country songs of all time so

835
00:49:17,036 --> 00:49:24,356
Speaker 3: he could compare his list to mine. Can we talk,

836
00:49:24,436 --> 00:49:26,716
Speaker 3: Let's talk about musical influences for a moment. Let's start

837
00:49:26,756 --> 00:49:28,996
Speaker 3: with Amy Lou Harris. I would love to when we

838
00:49:29,116 --> 00:49:33,716
Speaker 3: were thinking about this evening about our list of iconic

839
00:49:33,756 --> 00:49:38,996
Speaker 3: country songs, and one of my one on my list

840
00:49:39,156 --> 00:49:41,476
Speaker 3: is Boulder of Birmingham.

841
00:49:42,196 --> 00:49:42,636
Speaker 1: Do you know that?

842
00:49:43,276 --> 00:49:48,956
Speaker 3: No, that's the that is uh. It is the one

843
00:49:48,996 --> 00:49:53,076
Speaker 3: of the few songwriting credits she has on her first

844
00:49:53,796 --> 00:49:55,916
Speaker 3: I think she only has one songwriting credit on her

845
00:49:55,956 --> 00:49:59,236
Speaker 3: first nine albums, and that's Boulder of Birmingham, which she

846
00:49:59,236 --> 00:50:00,516
Speaker 3: writes about Graham Parsons.

847
00:50:00,676 --> 00:50:02,356
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it is.

848
00:50:02,796 --> 00:50:05,436
Speaker 3: Actually we're going to play a little bit of it.

849
00:50:05,796 --> 00:50:09,276
Speaker 3: It is the most just play the first little like

850
00:50:11,316 --> 00:50:15,236
Speaker 3: it's so heart wrenchingly beautiful.

851
00:50:15,756 --> 00:50:16,036
Speaker 1: And the.

852
00:50:17,636 --> 00:50:20,196
Speaker 3: I mentioned only because we were talking about grief and

853
00:50:20,276 --> 00:50:23,356
Speaker 3: about emotion. It's a song. It's a song about grief,

854
00:50:23,676 --> 00:50:29,276
Speaker 3: and it's a The articulation of her uh sense of

855
00:50:29,436 --> 00:50:34,596
Speaker 3: loss and longing is just perfect. Anyway here it does.

856
00:50:34,636 --> 00:50:36,676
Speaker 3: I think our r.

857
00:50:39,876 --> 00:50:53,556
Speaker 6: In the Bosom, I would hold any sa race away

858
00:50:54,956 --> 00:51:02,996
Speaker 6: from it about act act see.

859
00:51:07,076 --> 00:51:09,876
Speaker 3: I would walk all the way from THEO to Birmingham

860
00:51:10,436 --> 00:51:13,156
Speaker 3: if I thought I could see I could see your face.

861
00:51:13,956 --> 00:51:19,396
Speaker 3: That's her. The way she articulates her sense of loss.

862
00:51:20,156 --> 00:51:21,676
Speaker 1: She sings with so much agg too.

863
00:51:22,196 --> 00:51:25,236
Speaker 3: Yeah did you do your homework?

864
00:51:25,316 --> 00:51:28,236
Speaker 1: I did my own work. Yeah, your one assignment, I respect.

865
00:51:28,876 --> 00:51:32,236
Speaker 1: I Yeah. I had some arguments with my wife when

866
00:51:32,236 --> 00:51:33,956
Speaker 1: I picked this first one, because she's like, I don't

867
00:51:33,956 --> 00:51:35,716
Speaker 1: think of that as a country song, and I was like, well,

868
00:51:36,196 --> 00:51:38,116
Speaker 1: it was like a number three on the country charts,

869
00:51:39,316 --> 00:51:43,596
Speaker 1: and but I think my favorite country song, or what

870
00:51:43,716 --> 00:51:45,436
Speaker 1: I think is the best country song is Witch Tall

871
00:51:45,476 --> 00:51:49,356
Speaker 1: Lineman by Glenn Campbell. I need you more than want

872
00:51:49,396 --> 00:51:52,716
Speaker 1: you and I want you for all time. There's a

873
00:51:52,796 --> 00:51:55,676
Speaker 1: song about a Jimmy Web wrote the song, and he

874
00:51:56,476 --> 00:51:58,996
Speaker 1: talks about how I think it was his uncle was

875
00:51:59,036 --> 00:52:01,476
Speaker 1: a lineman. He always remembered see him up on the polls,

876
00:52:01,516 --> 00:52:05,716
Speaker 1: work on electrical lines, and so the song came easy

877
00:52:05,756 --> 00:52:08,916
Speaker 1: to him because he can imagine him, you know, being

878
00:52:08,956 --> 00:52:12,116
Speaker 1: a from home for a long time, wishing for to

879
00:52:12,196 --> 00:52:14,636
Speaker 1: be home with the one he loves. And it stood

880
00:52:14,636 --> 00:52:16,476
Speaker 1: the test of time too. It's a very simple song

881
00:52:16,516 --> 00:52:22,556
Speaker 1: about a workingman missing his love. But that's my number one.

882
00:52:24,276 --> 00:52:25,996
Speaker 3: Your wife said that was not a country song.

883
00:52:26,076 --> 00:52:27,956
Speaker 1: She said she doesn't think of it as a country song.

884
00:52:30,196 --> 00:52:31,436
Speaker 3: What does she think of it as.

885
00:52:32,796 --> 00:52:38,276
Speaker 1: That was not clear to me. We agreed on my

886
00:52:38,716 --> 00:52:41,396
Speaker 1: second one, though, is which is Crazy by Patsy Klein.

887
00:52:41,836 --> 00:52:43,316
Speaker 3: Oh yes, okay, I.

888
00:52:43,276 --> 00:52:45,436
Speaker 1: Mean it's such a standard, but it is so good

889
00:52:45,476 --> 00:52:47,356
Speaker 1: and I love that Willie Nelson wrote it. And then

890
00:52:48,036 --> 00:52:50,276
Speaker 1: a couple of years later he kind of quit the industry,

891
00:52:51,196 --> 00:52:57,076
Speaker 1: moves to Austin, Texas, and writes the most non commercial

892
00:52:58,476 --> 00:53:02,236
Speaker 1: country record ever, that's Redheaded Stranger as a forty three

893
00:53:02,276 --> 00:53:05,076
Speaker 1: year old, his career blows up. I just love the story.

894
00:53:05,116 --> 00:53:06,636
Speaker 1: And we've played a lot. We've gotten to play a

895
00:53:06,636 --> 00:53:08,116
Speaker 1: lot of shows with Willie over the years. I've sang

896
00:53:08,196 --> 00:53:10,476
Speaker 1: with him a doesn't times, you.

897
00:53:10,596 --> 00:53:11,716
Speaker 3: Know Willie Nelson, I didn't know.

898
00:53:11,836 --> 00:53:13,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're not. We don't like to call

899
00:53:13,276 --> 00:53:16,196
Speaker 1: each other because he's you know, he's he's an older guy,

900
00:53:16,236 --> 00:53:20,196
Speaker 1: and but I have. Yeah, we've shared the stage and sung.

901
00:53:20,476 --> 00:53:22,196
Speaker 1: He does this really neat thing every night where he

902
00:53:22,236 --> 00:53:25,076
Speaker 1: doesn't medley of I saw the light, will the circle

903
00:53:25,116 --> 00:53:31,796
Speaker 1: being broken and one other blanket on and he invites,

904
00:53:32,236 --> 00:53:34,316
Speaker 1: you know, the opener to come out and sing it

905
00:53:34,356 --> 00:53:36,396
Speaker 1: with him. So I've got to do that twelve or

906
00:53:36,436 --> 00:53:40,996
Speaker 1: fifteen times. So he and Dolly to me are the

907
00:53:41,036 --> 00:53:45,556
Speaker 1: two living legends left, you know, in that space. And

908
00:53:45,636 --> 00:53:49,196
Speaker 1: then my third one would be Joe Lene as a Tennessee.

909
00:53:49,276 --> 00:53:51,916
Speaker 1: And if I didn't mention a Dolly Parton song, probably

910
00:53:51,916 --> 00:53:54,676
Speaker 1: couldn't go home. What's your other one or two?

911
00:53:55,236 --> 00:53:59,276
Speaker 3: Uh? George Jones the Grand Tour, that's a sad song.

912
00:54:00,556 --> 00:54:04,556
Speaker 3: It's you know I have. I might be more attracted

913
00:54:04,636 --> 00:54:08,796
Speaker 3: to you, like are attracted to pure emotion, it seems like,

914
00:54:09,436 --> 00:54:12,876
Speaker 3: and I'm attracted in country music too, over the top

915
00:54:12,996 --> 00:54:21,156
Speaker 3: grandiosity and the Grand Tour. George Jones is like he's

916
00:54:21,396 --> 00:54:24,156
Speaker 3: like the He is in the best possible sense of

917
00:54:24,196 --> 00:54:28,036
Speaker 3: the word, a caricature of a country singer voice. We're

918
00:54:28,036 --> 00:54:30,476
Speaker 3: gonna be able to make her play just the beginning

919
00:54:30,636 --> 00:54:36,036
Speaker 3: of and play play the Grand Tour until the line

920
00:54:36,796 --> 00:54:37,276
Speaker 3: chills me.

921
00:54:37,356 --> 00:54:37,876
Speaker 1: To the bone.

922
00:54:39,956 --> 00:54:50,196
Speaker 10: Step Rider, Come on, elfid Lock to take the Grand Tour.

923
00:54:51,436 --> 00:54:51,956
Speaker 6: Along.

924
00:54:53,236 --> 00:54:57,756
Speaker 3: So fantastic Wonga was Home Sweet Home.

925
00:55:01,876 --> 00:55:08,156
Speaker 6: I have nothing here to sell you to come saying

926
00:55:08,836 --> 00:55:11,156
Speaker 6: that I will tell you.

927
00:55:12,836 --> 00:55:16,556
Speaker 7: Something things I know will chill you.

928
00:55:18,116 --> 00:55:24,116
Speaker 3: To the bone. I mean the notion that you would

929
00:55:24,116 --> 00:55:27,836
Speaker 3: write a song that, with a straight face, has the

930
00:55:27,916 --> 00:55:30,756
Speaker 3: phrase chill you to the bone. And you know he's

931
00:55:31,396 --> 00:55:33,596
Speaker 3: got nothing. He doesn't name any of the chili get

932
00:55:33,636 --> 00:55:35,396
Speaker 3: to the bone. Some woman dumped him.

933
00:55:35,476 --> 00:55:36,236
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's it.

934
00:55:36,756 --> 00:55:39,156
Speaker 1: An empty house that this will chill you to the bone.

935
00:55:39,716 --> 00:55:41,276
Speaker 1: My empty house, my empty ass.

936
00:55:41,836 --> 00:55:44,996
Speaker 3: He's so I just can't get over the bath. He's

937
00:55:45,036 --> 00:55:45,676
Speaker 3: so genius.

938
00:55:45,796 --> 00:55:47,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, you love the melodrama.

939
00:55:47,476 --> 00:55:47,956
Speaker 3: I love them.

940
00:55:48,236 --> 00:55:48,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

941
00:55:49,076 --> 00:55:51,796
Speaker 3: I once back in the day of mixtapes, I used

942
00:55:51,796 --> 00:55:54,636
Speaker 3: to make these mixtapes constantly, and they were always named

943
00:55:54,676 --> 00:55:59,076
Speaker 3: after for reasons I forget now, they were always named

944
00:55:59,116 --> 00:56:03,396
Speaker 3: after popes, So on the front of the CD case,

945
00:56:03,516 --> 00:56:05,716
Speaker 3: i'd have an image of one of the popes, like

946
00:56:05,756 --> 00:56:09,076
Speaker 3: you know, Pope Pious of twelfth or Emanuel the sixteen,

947
00:56:09,676 --> 00:56:13,676
Speaker 3: and then the soul. Also, I made like ten of them,

948
00:56:13,716 --> 00:56:16,956
Speaker 3: because there were a lot of popes. And I was

949
00:56:17,236 --> 00:56:20,036
Speaker 3: once driving with some person who didn't know me very well,

950
00:56:20,036 --> 00:56:22,916
Speaker 3: and I was playing one of these mixtapes, The Long Drive,

951
00:56:23,636 --> 00:56:25,516
Speaker 3: one of these mixtapes after another, and after like the

952
00:56:25,596 --> 00:56:28,236
Speaker 3: third one, this guy, Mike turned to me and said,

953
00:56:29,596 --> 00:56:33,436
Speaker 3: what is the matter with you? Every single song was

954
00:56:33,516 --> 00:56:37,276
Speaker 3: some kind of melancholy, over the top weeper. I'm happy

955
00:56:37,316 --> 00:56:39,836
Speaker 3: if the tempo is never picked up.

956
00:56:40,076 --> 00:56:46,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, songwriting, you're always pulling from your library, you know,

957
00:56:46,716 --> 00:56:49,196
Speaker 1: and you hopefully your library just keeps growing and growing.

958
00:56:49,596 --> 00:56:51,236
Speaker 1: And the trick is when I when I was young,

959
00:56:51,436 --> 00:56:55,316
Speaker 1: you're imitating and then you get better at find you

960
00:56:55,316 --> 00:56:56,836
Speaker 1: when you find your own voice, and then you're just

961
00:56:57,516 --> 00:57:01,036
Speaker 1: sort of taking cues from your library or not copying anybody,

962
00:57:01,236 --> 00:57:04,196
Speaker 1: but you're you're going, oh, that's interesting. That kind of

963
00:57:04,196 --> 00:57:06,156
Speaker 1: reminds me of this. Let's you know, make it our own.

964
00:57:06,236 --> 00:57:10,756
Speaker 3: And the people that you've mention do are important influences

965
00:57:10,796 --> 00:57:14,836
Speaker 3: for you. We just mentioned we talked before about oh

966
00:57:15,476 --> 00:57:19,956
Speaker 3: about Paul Simon. I'm curious what's the thread that links

967
00:57:19,996 --> 00:57:21,996
Speaker 3: and also Tom. I know that Tom Petty is someone

968
00:57:22,916 --> 00:57:24,956
Speaker 3: that has had an influencer. What what's the thread that

969
00:57:25,156 --> 00:57:26,396
Speaker 3: links these influences.

970
00:57:27,516 --> 00:57:30,756
Speaker 1: I think all those songwriters, I don't know if there's

971
00:57:30,876 --> 00:57:34,516
Speaker 1: if there's actually a perfect common thread between them, but

972
00:57:34,636 --> 00:57:39,156
Speaker 1: something about all those songs or all those artists, they

973
00:57:39,236 --> 00:57:42,676
Speaker 1: made records that really connected with me and helped me

974
00:57:42,836 --> 00:57:46,476
Speaker 1: sort of see the world, if you will, and help

975
00:57:46,556 --> 00:57:49,756
Speaker 1: me feel the world. And that's the beauty of music

976
00:57:49,836 --> 00:57:51,596
Speaker 1: is there's a bit of magic to it. And I'm

977
00:57:51,636 --> 00:57:57,556
Speaker 1: sure there's scientific and sociological ways to explain them. I'm

978
00:57:57,596 --> 00:57:59,716
Speaker 1: not really interested necessarily in hearing them because I like

979
00:57:59,836 --> 00:58:02,836
Speaker 1: the magic of it. I like the myth that I

980
00:58:02,876 --> 00:58:05,236
Speaker 1: don't know why this record speaks to me so much.

981
00:58:05,316 --> 00:58:10,236
Speaker 1: But when I hear, you know, Tom Petty, these wildflowers,

982
00:58:10,556 --> 00:58:12,556
Speaker 1: and I hear all I have to hear.

983
00:58:12,556 --> 00:58:15,676
Speaker 7: Is you belong among the wildflowers.

984
00:58:15,796 --> 00:58:18,796
Speaker 1: You belong in a boat out at sea. At that

985
00:58:18,956 --> 00:58:22,876
Speaker 1: in and of itself is just a beautiful sentiment, you know,

986
00:58:24,516 --> 00:58:27,836
Speaker 1: executed with this, you know, the arrangement, the sonic sort

987
00:58:27,836 --> 00:58:30,596
Speaker 1: of landscape of it. None of the artists that I

988
00:58:30,636 --> 00:58:32,436
Speaker 1: love seemed to sort of play by a certain formula.

989
00:58:32,876 --> 00:58:35,236
Speaker 1: Maybe they do sometimes on certain songs or certain records,

990
00:58:35,436 --> 00:58:36,956
Speaker 1: But Tom Patty's a great example. If you look at

991
00:58:36,996 --> 00:58:39,476
Speaker 1: his sort of the arc of his career and listen

992
00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:41,556
Speaker 1: to the records, they don't all sound the same. There's

993
00:58:42,396 --> 00:58:44,796
Speaker 1: you know, the different producers have sort of different eras

994
00:58:44,836 --> 00:58:48,956
Speaker 1: and fingerprints on his work. Jeff Lynn stuff is different

995
00:58:48,996 --> 00:58:52,916
Speaker 1: than the Jimmy Ovine stuff, And I like that that

996
00:58:52,996 --> 00:58:57,356
Speaker 1: they're always looking for something else to say, something else

997
00:58:57,436 --> 00:59:02,516
Speaker 1: to sing, some new way to express human experience via music.

998
00:59:02,636 --> 00:59:05,716
Speaker 1: And instruments and electricity and all this stuff that makes

999
00:59:05,756 --> 00:59:07,876
Speaker 1: this makes it work.

1000
00:59:09,796 --> 00:59:13,596
Speaker 3: I asked you to sing one cover. Yeah, tell me

1001
00:59:13,676 --> 00:59:15,156
Speaker 3: what you chose and why.

1002
00:59:15,276 --> 00:59:17,956
Speaker 1: I well, I did. I chose this song because you

1003
00:59:18,316 --> 00:59:22,036
Speaker 1: and I connected over the song back when we met

1004
00:59:22,076 --> 00:59:25,316
Speaker 1: in April. And I just saw this artist play at

1005
00:59:25,356 --> 00:59:29,716
Speaker 1: the Rhymann, which is a my favorite venue in the

1006
00:59:29,756 --> 00:59:33,596
Speaker 1: world and a serious underplay for him. The last time

1007
00:59:33,596 --> 00:59:35,996
Speaker 1: I saw him in Nashville is the Bridgetone Arena. He

1008
00:59:36,076 --> 00:59:39,076
Speaker 1: then he retired, and now he's come out of retirement

1009
00:59:39,116 --> 00:59:40,956
Speaker 1: to do these intimate acoustic shows. I know that you

1010
00:59:41,716 --> 00:59:43,956
Speaker 1: have interacted with him a ton, and I've heard nothing

1011
00:59:43,996 --> 00:59:46,836
Speaker 1: but great things about him personally, and I think this

1012
00:59:46,996 --> 00:59:49,636
Speaker 1: is one of the great songs. I also think it

1013
00:59:50,036 --> 00:59:53,156
Speaker 1: has what I consider the best first line of a

1014
00:59:53,236 --> 00:59:55,996
Speaker 1: song that I can that I've ever heard. So this

1015
00:59:56,196 --> 00:59:59,356
Speaker 1: is this is Paul Simon's America.

1016
01:00:09,876 --> 01:00:19,156
Speaker 4: Let Us be loves, will marry our fortunes together. I've

1017
01:00:19,276 --> 01:00:26,636
Speaker 4: got some real estate here in my bag. So I

1018
01:00:26,716 --> 01:00:33,396
Speaker 4: bought a pack of cigarettes missus Wagners pies.

1019
01:00:34,596 --> 01:00:37,516
Speaker 7: And walkked off to look.

1020
01:00:37,476 --> 01:00:52,276
Speaker 11: Forerica, Kathy, I said, as we boarded a greyhound in Pittsburgh,

1021
01:00:56,196 --> 01:00:59,076
Speaker 11: Michigan seems like a dream to me.

1022
01:00:59,236 --> 01:00:59,436
Speaker 8: Now.

1023
01:01:02,956 --> 01:01:07,076
Speaker 4: It took me four days to hitch hack from sagging off.

1024
01:01:07,836 --> 01:01:09,996
Speaker 6: I've gone to look for.

1025
01:01:10,316 --> 01:01:25,556
Speaker 12: A Manica, laughing on of us playing games with the faces.

1026
01:01:28,636 --> 01:01:32,916
Speaker 6: She says, the man in the gabardine.

1027
01:01:32,116 --> 01:01:40,676
Speaker 7: Suit is a spy, I said, be careful his bowtie.

1028
01:01:40,956 --> 01:01:53,676
Speaker 5: It's really a camera. Well, toss me a saga. I've

1029
01:01:53,796 --> 01:01:56,276
Speaker 5: got one here in my raincoat.

1030
01:01:59,716 --> 01:02:03,116
Speaker 6: No, we smoked the last one. And how will a go?

1031
01:02:07,436 --> 01:02:07,636
Speaker 1: Well?

1032
01:02:07,676 --> 01:02:14,276
Speaker 7: I looked at the scene of read she read her magazine.

1033
01:02:15,316 --> 01:02:21,756
Speaker 4: As the moon rose over and open field.

1034
01:02:27,996 --> 01:02:33,236
Speaker 13: Okathy, I'm lost, I said, though I knew she was sleeping.

1035
01:02:37,116 --> 01:02:40,796
Speaker 13: I'm empty and a king, and I don't know why.

1036
01:02:44,356 --> 01:02:49,356
Speaker 4: Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike day, all

1037
01:02:49,996 --> 01:03:02,516
Speaker 4: gone to look for Maerica, All gone to look for Maerica.

1038
01:03:04,436 --> 01:03:08,116
Speaker 7: We've all gone to look form.

1039
01:03:10,796 --> 01:03:22,996
Speaker 6: Come let us be loves. We'll marry our fortunes together.

1040
01:03:27,196 --> 01:03:36,716
Speaker 3: That was very fun, Thank you, you said, his concert

1041
01:03:36,756 --> 01:03:39,516
Speaker 3: at the Ryman that you saw earlier this year.

1042
01:03:39,996 --> 01:03:46,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was Actually this was really sweet for

1043
01:03:46,676 --> 01:03:49,676
Speaker 1: me personally. But we played two nights at the Rymond

1044
01:03:49,756 --> 01:03:52,716
Speaker 1: on May second and third, and then he played three

1045
01:03:52,836 --> 01:03:56,356
Speaker 1: nights at the Rymond May like twelve, thirteenth and fourteenth,

1046
01:03:56,756 --> 01:04:00,756
Speaker 1: and I got to sit and watch a show right

1047
01:04:00,796 --> 01:04:02,756
Speaker 1: after I had played there, and to see one of

1048
01:04:02,796 --> 01:04:05,036
Speaker 1: my heroes in the same spot that I was in

1049
01:04:05,716 --> 01:04:08,996
Speaker 1: eight days earlier. And he had the same reverence for

1050
01:04:08,996 --> 01:04:12,676
Speaker 1: the room that I always have, and it was it

1051
01:04:12,796 --> 01:04:17,156
Speaker 1: was a bit of an emotional and joyous and overwhelming experience.

1052
01:04:17,356 --> 01:04:20,276
Speaker 1: And he did two sets. He did the seven Hymns

1053
01:04:20,436 --> 01:04:22,756
Speaker 1: record from front to back, and then he came out

1054
01:04:22,796 --> 01:04:24,356
Speaker 1: and did sort of all the songs that you would

1055
01:04:24,396 --> 01:04:26,516
Speaker 1: want expect to hear in the second set, and it

1056
01:04:26,596 --> 01:04:28,916
Speaker 1: was just a yeah, it was wonderful.

1057
01:04:29,556 --> 01:04:31,956
Speaker 3: So you were in the middle, you you you were

1058
01:04:31,956 --> 01:04:34,836
Speaker 3: in the middle of writing a song about Cormack MacCarthy.

1059
01:04:34,996 --> 01:04:35,836
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was.

1060
01:04:37,636 --> 01:04:38,836
Speaker 3: Tell me how that came about.

1061
01:04:39,076 --> 01:04:39,596
Speaker 6: Yeah, you are so.

1062
01:04:40,476 --> 01:04:43,196
Speaker 1: Cormick McCarthy is one of my favorite authors. You know,

1063
01:04:43,436 --> 01:04:48,116
Speaker 1: Southern Gothic, dark, violent, end of the world, apocalypse, human

1064
01:04:48,956 --> 01:04:52,996
Speaker 1: sort of morality play author, right, very sparse and yeah,

1065
01:04:53,556 --> 01:04:57,356
Speaker 1: no country, frilled men, all the pretty horses the road,

1066
01:04:57,756 --> 01:05:01,156
Speaker 1: so many great books that turn into great films, et cetera.

1067
01:05:01,316 --> 01:05:04,916
Speaker 1: So he actually grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, which is

1068
01:05:04,916 --> 01:05:07,516
Speaker 1: where I went to school, but he had he left

1069
01:05:07,556 --> 01:05:10,196
Speaker 1: there and lived all over It sort of landed in

1070
01:05:10,236 --> 01:05:16,636
Speaker 1: the desert and Santa fel Passo somewhere in there. Unrelated

1071
01:05:16,676 --> 01:05:22,076
Speaker 1: to that, seemingly was I love old cars, and so

1072
01:05:22,156 --> 01:05:24,836
Speaker 1: I get this email from a company that auctions old

1073
01:05:24,876 --> 01:05:27,236
Speaker 1: cars just because I love to look at them. And

1074
01:05:27,356 --> 01:05:30,196
Speaker 1: I get this email in April, early April. It says,

1075
01:05:30,276 --> 01:05:34,956
Speaker 1: Cormick McCarthy's Ferrari it's being auctioned off. And and so

1076
01:05:35,116 --> 01:05:37,796
Speaker 1: it kind of like blew a fuse in me because

1077
01:05:37,796 --> 01:05:42,116
Speaker 1: I'm like, Cormick McCarthy didn't drive as like sure he

1078
01:05:42,516 --> 01:05:46,676
Speaker 1: actually did. He drove this black Ferrari in the last

1079
01:05:46,796 --> 01:05:51,316
Speaker 1: years of his life. And so I had this idea

1080
01:05:51,356 --> 01:05:55,276
Speaker 1: of like writing a song Cormi McCarthy's black Ferrari, but

1081
01:05:55,356 --> 01:05:58,476
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite find my the end, you know, I

1082
01:05:58,596 --> 01:06:02,036
Speaker 1: didn't find the ind I thought, no, I want to

1083
01:06:02,156 --> 01:06:05,436
Speaker 1: I want to drive Cormi McCarthy's black Ferrari through the

1084
01:06:05,516 --> 01:06:09,516
Speaker 1: desert and like and have a complete existential crisis. Yeah,

1085
01:06:10,476 --> 01:06:12,436
Speaker 1: And I feel like everybody right now is sort of

1086
01:06:12,636 --> 01:06:16,916
Speaker 1: we sort of live inside of existential crisis. That's that's

1087
01:06:16,996 --> 01:06:19,716
Speaker 1: like going to be the era that we live in.

1088
01:06:19,796 --> 01:06:21,316
Speaker 1: We look back on it, we're like, that's the that's

1089
01:06:21,356 --> 01:06:24,636
Speaker 1: the air of the existential crisis. There's just so much

1090
01:06:24,716 --> 01:06:28,796
Speaker 1: happening at such a speed that it's hard to keep up,

1091
01:06:28,836 --> 01:06:30,476
Speaker 1: and it's hard to know how to where to put

1092
01:06:30,516 --> 01:06:34,316
Speaker 1: your anger and where to put your your joy, and

1093
01:06:34,636 --> 01:06:37,236
Speaker 1: how to how to live. And I thought one of

1094
01:06:37,236 --> 01:06:38,476
Speaker 1: the ways it would help me is if I had

1095
01:06:38,556 --> 01:06:41,876
Speaker 1: Corey McCarthy's black Ferrari for a day. So I wrote

1096
01:06:41,876 --> 01:06:45,076
Speaker 1: this song and the first person I sent it to

1097
01:06:45,716 --> 01:06:48,836
Speaker 1: was you because we had talked about that interview and

1098
01:06:49,316 --> 01:06:51,236
Speaker 1: I love old cars too, yeah, and we also we

1099
01:06:51,436 --> 01:06:53,996
Speaker 1: could yeah we connected our old cars, and I was like,

1100
01:06:54,076 --> 01:06:58,476
Speaker 1: I I yeah. So I've never played this song before

1101
01:06:59,476 --> 01:07:03,876
Speaker 1: except for during soundcheck. So this is this is a debut.

1102
01:07:05,236 --> 01:07:07,716
Speaker 1: And I really liked this song. And if you don't

1103
01:07:07,756 --> 01:07:09,156
Speaker 1: like it, I don't really care that much because I

1104
01:07:09,316 --> 01:07:12,956
Speaker 1: like it a lot. So let's see if I remember

1105
01:07:13,036 --> 01:07:13,276
Speaker 1: how to.

1106
01:07:25,476 --> 01:07:29,316
Speaker 5: Walking on the sidewalk through my neighborhood. My neighbor's black

1107
01:07:29,476 --> 01:07:32,636
Speaker 5: cat is up to no good. There's something in the air,

1108
01:07:33,076 --> 01:07:36,036
Speaker 5: something in the streets, like a red tail hawk wading

1109
01:07:36,196 --> 01:07:39,596
Speaker 5: up in the trees. There's levees and tolls and roadblocks

1110
01:07:39,636 --> 01:07:42,516
Speaker 5: and speed bumps. Hasn't been a day, a week, or

1111
01:07:42,756 --> 01:07:46,236
Speaker 5: just a month. Unwanted packages by the front door screen

1112
01:07:46,396 --> 01:07:48,636
Speaker 5: and em deep pages in my diary.

1113
01:07:49,796 --> 01:07:56,596
Speaker 4: Cormac McCarthy's got a black Ferrari that he drives.

1114
01:07:56,276 --> 01:07:58,516
Speaker 7: Across the desert on a.

1115
01:07:59,516 --> 01:08:04,636
Speaker 4: Sunday morning, and I'm dreaming about the wind in my face,

1116
01:08:04,836 --> 01:08:08,316
Speaker 4: nothing but my worn out suitcase.

1117
01:08:07,796 --> 01:08:19,036
Speaker 10: Driving that for like Corn McCarthy in my mind, In

1118
01:08:19,196 --> 01:08:20,156
Speaker 10: my mind.

1119
01:08:25,156 --> 01:08:28,956
Speaker 5: UF fiasco falls like rain on our faces, a Mickey

1120
01:08:29,076 --> 01:08:32,596
Speaker 5: Mantle rookie card ruined in the basement, and nothing turns.

1121
01:08:32,396 --> 01:08:33,796
Speaker 6: Out like you thought it would.

1122
01:08:34,156 --> 01:08:36,596
Speaker 7: It's a little more barefoot than Hollywood.

1123
01:08:37,156 --> 01:08:41,076
Speaker 5: It's confusing, the losing the booze and excusing the stage

1124
01:08:41,196 --> 01:08:43,196
Speaker 5: fright and all the troubles shooting.

1125
01:08:43,556 --> 01:08:46,476
Speaker 4: Where do I fit in amongst all the matter in

1126
01:08:46,556 --> 01:08:49,516
Speaker 4: this party? He always feels like a lost soul's gathering.

1127
01:08:52,836 --> 01:08:59,916
Speaker 4: Cormac McCarthy's got a black Ferrari that he drives across

1128
01:09:00,036 --> 01:09:05,996
Speaker 4: the desert on a Sunday morning, and I'm dreaming about

1129
01:09:06,076 --> 01:09:10,116
Speaker 4: the wind and my face, nothing but a worn out

1130
01:09:10,196 --> 01:09:17,236
Speaker 4: suitcase driving that Ferrari like Cormac McCarthy in my mind,

1131
01:09:22,316 --> 01:09:31,956
Speaker 4: in my mind, engine and fuel and pain and chrome,

1132
01:09:34,636 --> 01:09:41,596
Speaker 4: muscle and blood and skin and bone, engine and fuel.

1133
01:09:41,396 --> 01:09:46,996
Speaker 7: And pain and chrome, muscle and blood.

1134
01:09:46,756 --> 01:09:48,356
Speaker 6: And skin and bones.

1135
01:09:53,996 --> 01:09:58,876
Speaker 4: Cormac McCarthy's gotten black Ferrari.

1136
01:09:59,356 --> 01:10:02,796
Speaker 9: Dady drives across the desert.

1137
01:10:02,476 --> 01:10:08,116
Speaker 4: An Sunday morning, and I'm dreaming about the wind in

1138
01:10:08,396 --> 01:10:12,636
Speaker 4: my face, nothing but worn out suit case of driving

1139
01:10:12,916 --> 01:10:21,276
Speaker 4: that Ferrari, like Cormac McCarthy in my mind, in my mind,

1140
01:10:23,356 --> 01:10:33,836
Speaker 4: in my mind, I'm driving con mcmccarthy's black Ferrari my mine.

1141
01:10:38,796 --> 01:10:46,276
Speaker 3: I love that, hopefully. Why you said you couldn't figure

1142
01:10:46,316 --> 01:10:49,676
Speaker 3: out how to couldn't figure out your way in? What

1143
01:10:49,796 --> 01:10:50,436
Speaker 3: did you mean by that?

1144
01:10:51,276 --> 01:10:51,476
Speaker 6: Well?

1145
01:10:51,516 --> 01:10:56,076
Speaker 1: I had this this like obviously the phrase in the

1146
01:10:56,196 --> 01:11:01,516
Speaker 1: rhyme Corey McCarthy's Black Ferrari. It was like, this song

1147
01:11:01,636 --> 01:11:04,516
Speaker 1: gonna be like a funny song about how could this

1148
01:11:05,516 --> 01:11:13,316
Speaker 1: modeling writer have such a you know, cultural toy like this.

1149
01:11:13,876 --> 01:11:15,236
Speaker 1: This doesn't make sense to me.

1150
01:11:15,556 --> 01:11:18,556
Speaker 3: It should be a piece of old Chevy pickup.

1151
01:11:18,396 --> 01:11:21,356
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's like that's the imagination, right, It not

1152
01:11:21,476 --> 01:11:24,356
Speaker 1: that he had this car, so it's like a magnum

1153
01:11:24,396 --> 01:11:28,236
Speaker 1: p I car, you know. So then I was like, no,

1154
01:11:28,356 --> 01:11:30,556
Speaker 1: that's not the right frame, because what I felt when

1155
01:11:30,636 --> 01:11:33,676
Speaker 1: I saw that that existed as a fan of his work,

1156
01:11:33,836 --> 01:11:36,276
Speaker 1: and it's also someone who would like to have a

1157
01:11:36,356 --> 01:11:42,356
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine Testerosa just for a day. Even was that? No,

1158
01:11:42,796 --> 01:11:48,596
Speaker 1: even the saddest, most sort of Gothic, you know, the

1159
01:11:48,676 --> 01:11:55,516
Speaker 1: chronicler of American violence needed an escape, and so he

1160
01:11:55,596 --> 01:11:57,756
Speaker 1: had this black Ferrari and he would just go. I'd

1161
01:11:57,836 --> 01:12:00,676
Speaker 1: imagine him smiling, driving one hundred and twenty miles an

1162
01:12:00,716 --> 01:12:02,716
Speaker 1: hour across the desert in Santa Fe. And there's not

1163
01:12:02,796 --> 01:12:05,916
Speaker 1: a picture in the world that exists of Corn McCarthy's smiling. No,

1164
01:12:07,796 --> 01:12:11,036
Speaker 1: And so I relate to that. I relate. I relate

1165
01:12:11,116 --> 01:12:17,836
Speaker 1: to feeling the weight of of you know, life and

1166
01:12:17,876 --> 01:12:22,036
Speaker 1: all of it's like joys and tragedies, and that sometimes

1167
01:12:22,116 --> 01:12:28,036
Speaker 1: the simple pleasure might make it go away for a minute.

1168
01:12:28,356 --> 01:12:31,636
Speaker 3: Has that that song as it stands? Now? Have you

1169
01:12:31,756 --> 01:12:33,316
Speaker 3: worked on that with the band or is that all

1170
01:12:33,396 --> 01:12:33,996
Speaker 3: you at this point?

1171
01:12:34,036 --> 01:12:35,836
Speaker 1: Well, they've heard it, but we haven't. No, we wait

1172
01:12:35,876 --> 01:12:37,476
Speaker 1: till we all get in the room together before we

1173
01:12:37,756 --> 01:12:39,036
Speaker 1: sort of dive into it.

1174
01:12:39,276 --> 01:12:42,796
Speaker 3: But yeah, what will happen to it when when you

1175
01:12:42,876 --> 01:12:43,316
Speaker 3: all dive in.

1176
01:12:43,836 --> 01:12:47,036
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, we'll we'll go through several iterations.

1177
01:12:47,076 --> 01:12:48,596
Speaker 1: First thing we'll do is we'll make sure we're in

1178
01:12:48,596 --> 01:12:50,396
Speaker 1: the right key. We'll do some practical things, make sure

1179
01:12:50,396 --> 01:12:53,836
Speaker 1: we're the right key, figure out the tempo, and then

1180
01:12:53,876 --> 01:12:56,196
Speaker 1: we'll sort of jump into the approach. You know, like,

1181
01:12:56,636 --> 01:12:57,916
Speaker 1: what are the drums going to be doing? Are we

1182
01:12:58,036 --> 01:13:01,076
Speaker 1: are we? Is this acoustic sort of is that the

1183
01:13:01,196 --> 01:13:03,556
Speaker 1: main engine driver of the song, or are we going

1184
01:13:03,636 --> 01:13:06,676
Speaker 1: to do like a piano bassed drums thing? And then

1185
01:13:07,476 --> 01:13:09,116
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of like try a bunch of

1186
01:13:09,276 --> 01:13:12,756
Speaker 1: different things and then inevitably one of them, all five

1187
01:13:12,796 --> 01:13:14,556
Speaker 1: of us will go that's it. That's the that's the

1188
01:13:14,596 --> 01:13:15,436
Speaker 1: approach time.

1189
01:13:15,996 --> 01:13:17,436
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really beautiful song.

1190
01:13:17,516 --> 01:13:18,516
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you?

1191
01:13:19,396 --> 01:13:23,276
Speaker 3: Do I think we're I think our time is.

1192
01:13:24,836 --> 01:13:26,276
Speaker 1: I have no idea ho which time we've We've been

1193
01:13:26,316 --> 01:13:27,116
Speaker 1: up for a while though.

1194
01:13:27,036 --> 01:13:29,636
Speaker 3: We've been up here a while. Yeah, I feel people

1195
01:13:29,756 --> 01:13:32,996
Speaker 3: lurking how should we end this?

1196
01:13:33,796 --> 01:13:34,116
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1197
01:13:36,316 --> 01:13:38,396
Speaker 3: I'm like being sumptuous. So if I ask you to

1198
01:13:38,396 --> 01:13:40,116
Speaker 3: play one more so, sure, sure.

1199
01:13:41,956 --> 01:13:48,236
Speaker 1: I'll play a song I wrote there's a wonderful band

1200
01:13:48,316 --> 01:13:50,756
Speaker 1: in Nashville that has toured for many years called Old

1201
01:13:50,796 --> 01:13:53,876
Speaker 1: Crow Medicine Show Good. My kids go to school with

1202
01:13:54,036 --> 01:13:56,716
Speaker 1: some of Ketsch's kids, who's the lead singer and writer.

1203
01:13:57,236 --> 01:13:59,236
Speaker 1: And this is a great Nashville story. We're dropping our

1204
01:13:59,316 --> 01:14:01,196
Speaker 1: kids off at school and he's like, what are you

1205
01:14:01,236 --> 01:14:03,436
Speaker 1: up to this week? And I said, I'm just gonna

1206
01:14:03,436 --> 01:14:06,236
Speaker 1: be in my office doing some writing and you know, working,

1207
01:14:06,276 --> 01:14:09,036
Speaker 1: And he said we should write a song this week.

1208
01:14:09,236 --> 01:14:12,116
Speaker 1: We'd never written a song together before, and so I said, well,

1209
01:14:12,156 --> 01:14:14,156
Speaker 1: how about tomorrow morning. So the next morning, we drop

1210
01:14:14,196 --> 01:14:15,956
Speaker 1: our kids off, we get coffee, about eight thirty, we're

1211
01:14:15,956 --> 01:14:19,276
Speaker 1: writing songs, and we wrote this song about ten thirty

1212
01:14:19,356 --> 01:14:21,596
Speaker 1: that morning. We both had just gotten back into doing

1213
01:14:21,636 --> 01:14:24,756
Speaker 1: normal shows again with a real with live audiences, and

1214
01:14:24,836 --> 01:14:25,836
Speaker 1: we had really missed that.

1215
01:14:26,196 --> 01:14:29,156
Speaker 3: So this is such a fantastic only in Nashville story.

1216
01:14:29,276 --> 01:14:31,716
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And then it was a great It

1217
01:14:31,796 --> 01:14:33,156
Speaker 1: was a great song for me. It ended up being

1218
01:14:33,276 --> 01:14:35,396
Speaker 1: It's the song is called Dance with Everybody, and then

1219
01:14:35,476 --> 01:14:38,356
Speaker 1: ended up getting picked up by the NCAA for two

1220
01:14:38,436 --> 01:14:41,276
Speaker 1: years straight as a theme song for March Madness, which

1221
01:14:41,876 --> 01:14:47,036
Speaker 1: a song is not about basketball, and b I am

1222
01:14:48,156 --> 01:14:52,196
Speaker 1: like one of the world's worst basketball players. Yeah, and

1223
01:14:52,316 --> 01:14:53,956
Speaker 1: a big family of athletes. And so it brought me

1224
01:14:53,996 --> 01:14:58,356
Speaker 1: a lot of satisfaction that my song I was in

1225
01:14:58,636 --> 01:15:01,596
Speaker 1: I got to participate it in March madness. None of

1226
01:15:01,676 --> 01:15:03,916
Speaker 1: my athletics six three cousins did.

1227
01:15:04,076 --> 01:15:16,156
Speaker 7: So you walked into this room, you hardly knew anyone.

1228
01:15:17,236 --> 01:15:21,116
Speaker 4: See full of strangers, just crashing on the rooms when

1229
01:15:21,196 --> 01:15:23,916
Speaker 4: the band strikes. By the end of the night, strangers

1230
01:15:24,036 --> 01:15:27,836
Speaker 4: no more. I wanna dance with everybody. And you came

1231
01:15:27,956 --> 01:15:31,476
Speaker 4: through that door, whether you came here to party or

1232
01:15:31,556 --> 01:15:34,636
Speaker 4: you came here to cry wall that to meet somebody,

1233
01:15:34,836 --> 01:15:38,476
Speaker 4: cheat somebody, get little, get high. So come on, all

1234
01:15:38,596 --> 01:15:41,676
Speaker 4: you people with two feet on your floor. I wanna

1235
01:15:41,796 --> 01:15:43,516
Speaker 4: dance with everybody.

1236
01:15:43,556 --> 01:15:44,996
Speaker 7: And came through that door.

1237
01:15:46,076 --> 01:15:50,836
Speaker 6: WHOA, let it all go, WHOA.

1238
01:15:52,196 --> 01:15:55,316
Speaker 4: Shake up your soul, throw your hands in the air,

1239
01:15:55,796 --> 01:15:58,876
Speaker 4: throw your hat in the ring, grow your hips, in

1240
01:15:58,996 --> 01:16:02,876
Speaker 4: your heart into everything, get lost.

1241
01:16:02,756 --> 01:16:05,396
Speaker 6: In the crowd, get down on the floor.

1242
01:16:05,636 --> 01:16:07,916
Speaker 7: I don't wanna dance with everybody.

1243
01:16:07,956 --> 01:16:09,396
Speaker 6: And you came in that door.

1244
01:16:13,556 --> 01:16:17,796
Speaker 4: Well, come all your saints and sinners, poets, prophets and fools.

1245
01:16:18,116 --> 01:16:20,996
Speaker 5: Are you cowboys, tricks and zipss trying so hard to

1246
01:16:21,076 --> 01:16:25,716
Speaker 5: be cool? Are you dreamers and schemers thirsty for more?

1247
01:16:25,916 --> 01:16:29,676
Speaker 4: I want to dance with everybody came through that door.

1248
01:16:30,756 --> 01:16:37,796
Speaker 6: WHOA, let it all go? WHOA, shake up your soul.

1249
01:16:38,316 --> 01:16:39,276
Speaker 4: Royal hands in.

1250
01:16:39,356 --> 01:16:43,276
Speaker 8: The air, Royal hat in the ring, broyal hips in

1251
01:16:43,436 --> 01:16:45,796
Speaker 8: your heart and everything.

1252
01:16:46,556 --> 01:16:49,836
Speaker 4: Get lost in the crowd, Get down on the floor.

1253
01:16:50,076 --> 01:16:53,756
Speaker 4: I want to dance with everybody came through that door.

1254
01:16:56,236 --> 01:17:04,596
Speaker 4: Ohhe oh, heey, oh.

1255
01:17:04,516 --> 01:17:11,956
Speaker 7: Hey, well, let's put us oude our differences.

1256
01:17:12,476 --> 01:17:16,836
Speaker 6: We'll lace up our shoes. Let's narrow the distance.

1257
01:17:16,556 --> 01:17:19,796
Speaker 5: Between me and meet me in the middle.

1258
01:17:20,436 --> 01:17:21,756
Speaker 7: Let's quit keeping score.

1259
01:17:21,956 --> 01:17:26,956
Speaker 4: I want to dance with everybody came through that door. WHOA,

1260
01:17:28,676 --> 01:17:31,276
Speaker 4: let it all go, WHOA.

1261
01:17:32,596 --> 01:17:34,596
Speaker 6: Shake up your soul, Throw our.

1262
01:17:34,676 --> 01:17:37,636
Speaker 4: Hands in the air, Try our hat in the reader,

1263
01:17:37,996 --> 01:17:42,276
Speaker 4: throw our hips in your heart into everything. Turn the

1264
01:17:42,396 --> 01:17:46,316
Speaker 4: world on a string, turn the winds on a dime, turn.

1265
01:17:46,156 --> 01:17:49,476
Speaker 6: The wheel to the west, and the water the wine.

1266
01:17:49,996 --> 01:17:53,356
Speaker 7: Get lost in the crowd, get down on the floor.

1267
01:17:53,596 --> 01:17:57,316
Speaker 4: I want to dance with everybody came through that door.

1268
01:17:57,556 --> 01:18:01,556
Speaker 4: I want to dance with everybody came through that door.

1269
01:18:10,036 --> 01:18:18,436
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Drew Thank you all. This episode

1270
01:18:18,436 --> 01:18:20,876
Speaker 3: of Broken Record is produced by Leah Rose and Nina

1271
01:18:20,916 --> 01:18:24,876
Speaker 3: Bird Lawrence, with Ben f Haffrey and Lucy Sullivan. Our

1272
01:18:24,956 --> 01:18:28,796
Speaker 3: engineers are Nina Bird Lawrence, Clara Bregare, and Ben Holliday.

1273
01:18:29,396 --> 01:18:33,596
Speaker 3: Marketing by Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our executive producers

1274
01:18:33,676 --> 01:18:37,036
Speaker 3: are Jacob Smith and jessin Rich Miller. Special thanks to

1275
01:18:37,076 --> 01:18:40,236
Speaker 3: Wait twenty four, to Wallowise Linton, and to the whole

1276
01:18:40,396 --> 01:18:43,276
Speaker 3: crew over at the Cherry Lane Theater. My name is

1277
01:18:43,956 --> 01:18:44,716
Speaker 3: Malcolm Glasma.