WEBVTT - Part One: The Food And Drug Administration 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:10.400 Oh, Behind the Fasterds is the podcast you're listening to 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.039 right now. I'm Robert Evans, the host. We we talked 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.480 about bad People tell you all about him, and today 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:21.760 my guest Matt leeb who is a comedian and also 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:26.319 mind Leebling. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's cute. Your 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.200 name is Matt Lee Mine Leebling kind of yeah. Leeb 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.800 Is is German for love, you know. So it's like, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:39.960 you know, some people call me Maddie loved love yeah, 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.440 big Papa l Like these are all like I would 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.800 like people to know one's actually done it yet. But 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.040 if you want to call me Maddie Love, big Papa 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.560 l um, you know, the love Maddie, whatever you want, 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.600 just you know, fucking call me nice names. Uh yeah, 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.560 that's what this podcast is. This is the show where 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:03.560 I say nice things about a random guest. Yeah. If 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.560 you want the show where I say cruel things about 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.360 a random guest, just just stick around for another half 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:17.240 hour and I'm gonna make Gilbert Godfried cry. Um. You 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.480 know I love Gilbert. Anyone who has the courage to 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.760 get up on stage the day after nine eleven until 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:27.000 James about nine eleven is a hero. He wasn't the 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:32.560 true hero of nine eleven. Gilbert Godfried Firefighters and Gilbert 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:37.279 Godfrey freed again, Matt before we get into it, because 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.120 the topic today is just gonna blow people away. You 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:42.479 want to you want to plug anything right now? Oh yeah, 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.120 well I do a the only Sopranos podcast. It's a 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.040 rewatch podcast of the Sopranos called Pod Yourself a Gun. Um, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.080 so yeah you should. You should check that out if 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.320 you like the Sopranos. Even if you don't like the Sopranos, 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.760 you know, it's just it's just a good time. And 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.040 the Pod Yourself a Gun is legally the only Sopranos podcast. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.520 If you hear another one called the a t F. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.840 They regulate that and they'll go shoot those people's dogs. Yeah, no, 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:13.840 that's a that's what does I know. I don't like 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.280 that vibe. I know it's not cool that that's their job, 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.520 but it is. It is their job. Yeah, yeah, no, 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.480 there's some people think there's this other sopros podcast, but 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.320 that's a that's like a deep fake. So don't funk 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.639 with that. That's the deep state trying to trick you exactly. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.520 That's a PSI op to get you to uh to like, 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.000 you know, the wire instead. But yeah, it's really just 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.960 a stealth the Wire podcast exactly, and that show this 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.360 is about the shit. Yeah hell yeah. Also I do 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.880 a movie podcast called the Film Drunk Podcast. Both of 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.440 those are with Vince Mancini, who is my co host 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.840 and pod life partners. Now is he at all related 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:57.000 to Boom Boom Mancini? He I doubt it, um, but 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:02.320 it's it's possible. So about Boom Boom Mancini killed the 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:06.280 guy all. Vince Mancini is also the name of Sonny 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.160 cor Leoni's bastard son in Godfather Part three, So that's 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.200 very fun. A lot of mafia tians with this, Uh 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.919 speaking of mafia's you know what else is an unaccountable 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:22.800 group of dangerous criminals matt um the police. Well, yes, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.760 this is a long time coming back, but but but 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.079 this is even worse than the police met today. We're 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:33.120 talking about the archbastard of them all, the f d A. 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.600 Oh ship, Yeah, that's right, motherfucker, the Food and Drug Administration. 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.200 That's right, that's who we're We got two parts on 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.280 the f d A this week. You know, that's literally 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:50.160 this is I did not know I was coming in 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.440 here expecting. Listen, We've talked about Nazis, we talked about Nazis, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.320 We've talked about dr Oz, We've talked about people who uh, 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.720 you know, created the boy Scouts and touched all amateurs, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.600 all amateurs right heart hydra and got ship on the 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.200 food and drug Okay, I might be going a little far. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.200 I'm excited. Yeah, we we we. We make a lot 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:15.760 of fun of the f d A. And I've always 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.560 found like goating them into violence funny because they're kind 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.000 of like the most milk toast three letter agency the 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.200 government has. Right The FBI is like terrifying, the a 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.880 t F is this big drunken, bloodthirsty frat boy. The 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.400 CIA kills entire governments, And meanwhile, the FDA can't even 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.360 like ban people from drinking bleach in a timely manner, 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.680 Like it takes years to be like we probably shouldn't 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.320 let people give their kids bleach water. They just do. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.680 Press conferences were like stop, yeah, gys, this is bad 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:49.640 for you. Just schoolmarm. But the reality is that that 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.839 kind of like amiable toothlessness is a front that hides 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.000 an agency as corrupt and deadly as any part of 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.000 the U. S. Government in fact, probably has greater society 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.080 a harm in a lot of ways than most. Our 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.640 friends at the FDA may have a have a body 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.240 count that might might shock you. But before we get 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.520 into that, we should spend some time talking about the 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.080 world before the FDA, because this is not just as 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.120 simple as story as like government agency does bad things. 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.120 It's actually like it's like an Anakin Skywalker story of 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.440 this great hero who rises up and then crumbles. The 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.320 f d A is the Anakin Skywalker of three letter 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.720 Agencies ship. So we're today we're gonna like lead up 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.880 to them becoming a Jedi, and the next episode they 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.320 wind up falling in the lava planet oh ship A 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.039 man that's great and and well, well we'll try to 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.400 figure out throughout this who the Obi wan Kenobi of 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.640 the f d A s, because that's actually I think 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:52.640 I may have but well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Family. Well, yeah, 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.080 once upon a time, people foraged, trapped, and hunted for food, 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.000 generally in that order of like amount of calories gained. Right, Uh, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.080 we developed methods of preservation over time. Um, you know, 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.040 stuff like you'd salt your meat, and you could make 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.920 like a jerky. You could even like even if you're 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.320 a hunter gather, you could do that in a cave 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.160 or something. Um, you would smoke certain things, you know. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:15.120 And as as as time went on, more foods we 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.360 got better at preserving stuff, and we also got better 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.640 at like trading, and so more foods began to travel 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.560 greater and greater distances. But the extent to which most 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.919 foods could actually go geographically was very limited, right. You 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.960 couldn't You couldn't take mangoes from one place to a 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.520 place like a thousand miles away, you know, eight hundred 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.440 nine hundred years ago. Very well, you could take like 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.880 the seeds, maybe you could grow them, but like mangoes 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.320 don't last all that long fast. So a lot of 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.080 stuff like that's why some of this stuff became like 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.320 surprized because if you could manage to get it to 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.359 like the emperor or something, it was a gift that 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.600 was really valuable. Because you couldn't get stuff to travel 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.760 nearly as far as you can today, which meant that 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.520 like back for most of human civilization, people ate pretty 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.400 locally by default. Right, there was trade and like spices 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.400 and stuff that keeps well. But like most food was 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.360 grown or whatever, hunted, trapped whatever, pretty close to where 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.560 you lived. Now. When the Napoleonic Wars kicked off in 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.120 the early eighteen hundreds, our boy Nappy offered a bounty 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.559 to any inventor who could figure out a cheap, quick 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.080 and effective way to preserve food and quantity, right, because 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.280 you still have this problem in the eighteen hundreds of 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.120 like we can kind of salt meat, we can bake 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.960 these like shitty really hard biscuits, hard tack and stuff 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.160 that like will keep for a while, but like most 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.680 stuff doesn't keep well, and like scurvy's a problem. Vitamin 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.840 deficiencies are a problem because if you're like on the march, 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:31.640 or if you're usually not on the march, but like 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.840 you're posted up and fortified in like the winter, it's like, well, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:36.960 how do you get everyone? Maybe you don't have a 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.920 lot of food available in the winter, so either you're 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.440 gonna be like foraging from the local area or stealing 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.600 from people, or you have a lot of famines cause 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.840 because an army will camp out suddenly and they'll take 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:50.000 all the food in the surrounding area. Um So Napoleon's like, 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:51.680 I have a lot of war I want to do, 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.280 and I don't want to be limited by the fact 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.920 that we're shipped at preserving food. So somebody figure out 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.360 a way to do this. Napoleon does this with a 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.480 bunch of stuff. He's a very like forward thinking he's 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.800 real pretty smart dude. Um and this this bears fruit 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.400 very quickly. In eighteen o nine, a French brewer named 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.160 Nicholas Appert realized that food cooked inside a glass jar 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.280 and sealed didn't spoil. If you put whatever kind of 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:14.920 food or something in a glass jarry stick and some 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.720 salt or some spices, you cook it at for a while, 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.600 it'll stay good for I mean really for years in 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.200 some cases, and on think they were that good at them. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.080 But it'll stay good at hell of a lot longer 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.960 to invented pickles. Not quite. But this is the guy 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.040 who started the process of inventing canning. Um. And the 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.920 French state was unable to master the art of canning 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.200 and quantity right. They figure out that this works, but 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.920 it's like figuring out how to make the seals right 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.240 and how to get like it's a process. We're not 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.160 as good at glass then as we are now, so 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:45.920 like having glass that can stand because you have to, 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.760 like I do a lot of canning now. A good 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:50.680 friend of mine taught me how. And it's you have 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.120 to like basically boils a can with food in it 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.360 for like minutes, you know. So like the glass, it 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.160 takes a while to make glass that can reliably stand 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.040 up to that even the day some of it's gonna break. Um, 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.480 So it's a Processingly, I totally relate to that every 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.560 time I try to can Yeah, you know, I just can't. 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.440 I'm as as a fellow canner. I uh, you know, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.840 it's just I get it, dude. Hard, It's hard. It's hard. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.000 It's hard to do if you're like trying to make 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.800 an army's worth of food and preserve it. So they 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.720 figure out that this works, um, but it doesn't really 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.880 get the French government doesn't get good at it in 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.720 time for Napoleon to to stop to to like not 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.440 lose his wars, right, um, and it would have helped 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.240 like the whole Russian campaign, having like good canned and 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.720 tin food might have really helped out. You know, I 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:41.760 really would have liked that could have been it could 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.199 have been a game changer. It could have been a 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.600 game changer, man. But you know, but obviously, like now 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.720 that the basic idea is understood, the process gets more 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.800 and more developed over kind of the early to mid 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.880 eight hundreds, and it spreads all throughout Europe. As soon 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.440 as other nations realized this as possible, a lot of 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.679 resources get developed into like canning and then hinting food. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.839 The Portuguese are like the best at tending effectively. If 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.600 you'll wind up in like Lisbon, ever, which is a 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.680 beautiful city, Um, the airport has like these stores that 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.000 are just hundreds of different kinds of weird canned foods, 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.880 like stuff you've never seen canned. Because that's like Portugal's 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:19.679 motherfucking thing is canning, particularly like seafood, out of just 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.599 we're canning different fucking weird. This is just yeah, we 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.800 just put some dirt in a can. Nobody can stop 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.480 us anything in a candy yeah. And these are this this, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.360 these developments and canning and tending are a huge part 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.280 of why the last huge because the biggest wave of 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.680 European colonization is the eighteen hundreds, right, that's like the 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.960 when stuff really starts to go huge. Um, outside of 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.640 like you know, North and in Central America and um, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.880 like the scramble for Africa and stuff, and a lot 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.480 of like the colonialism and in in Asia starts happening 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.839 in this period. UM. And canned in tin food is 0:10:57.880 --> 0:10:59.360 a big part of what makes that possible. It's a 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.120 big part of like why these guys we've talked about 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.040 on the show, these explorers in Africa and whatnot, for 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:06.760 like Leopold are able to do what they're able to 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.400 do because they're able to take, you know, a lot 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:09.920 of what they need with them and keep it in 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:15.280 the jungle heat. So cans aided like global colonialism. Oh absolutely, Yeah, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.720 it's hugely important. UM, being able to like reliably have 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.079 the nutrition you need and take it for a significant 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.120 period of time. That's a that's very important. I never 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.480 even considered that. Yeah. Yeah, So Nicholas Appert had stumbled 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.560 upon canning, but he didn't really know at the time 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.640 what he was doing. And today we call the process 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.840 that he kind of helped to discover pasteurization. UM. And 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.520 this is again heating a liquid to one forty degrees 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.720 for about twenty minutes pasteur and the guide that the 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.960 pasteurization comes from actually like figured out what pasteurization was 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.920 and like, scientifically what was going on, And he did 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.000 this in the eighteen fifties. Well, he was actually trying 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.040 to preserve wine. Uh So, eighteen fifties past year discovers 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.440 pasteurization um, which people already kind of knew about. But 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.120 he's like the guy who figures out scientifically what's going 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.679 on and slapped his fucking name on it. That's right, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.720 but he's just trying to preserve wine. It takes another 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.400 twenty years before a German chemist figures out that the 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.640 same process could work on milk, which at the time 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.880 was filled with salmonella and tuberculosis. We will talk a 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.120 lot about how fucked up milk was in the that's 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.960 like half of this episode. Milk was a fucking nightmare 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.080 back in the day. Like I don't give a ship, Like, 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.280 however much you like Lovecraft cosmic horror, nothing is scarier 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:35.240 than milk. In the eighteen seventies, it was like, that's 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.559 a great question, Matt, because it sounds like a nightmare. 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.320 Everything was just so gross back then. Yeah, yeah, they're like, listen, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.720 one out of four of these main courses is going 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.760 to kill you. Anyways, might as well, add some milk 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.320 to it. Yeah, So the Germans figure out that you 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.920 can pasteurized milk, and like the eighteen seventies, and obviously 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.520 milks not the only thing you can past yourized, but 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.079 that that's when that gets figured out. But pasteurized milk 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.040 doesn't really hit the US in quantity until the thirties, 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.160 So there's like a sixty year period where we can 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.240 but we aren't. And this is the story of why. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:11.880 So in eight nine, Harvard microbiologist Theobald Smith discovered salmonella, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.040 which obviously had existed for a long time and been 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.480 killing people for a long time. But he figures out 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.680 like why people are dying from milk? Um, and he 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.640 suggests like, hey, we should pasteurize this stuff. The Germans 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.880 have figured it out. It's very easy. You just have 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.000 to heat this ship up for a while. Um. And 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.240 there's this immediate panic by the American Pediatric Society who 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.320 as soon as this guy is like, we should be 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.880 pasteurizing our milk, they're like, pasture heated milk will give 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:43.520 baby scurvy, it robs it of nutrients. Don't do it. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.560 Was there like a reason like why would they give 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.679 a ship or are they just in the pocket of 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.520 big raw milk. You hear it a bunch like that, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.680 Like cooking vegetables, steaming vegetables. You lose some I'm sure 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.240 you do lose some nutrients. I don't think it's enough 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.240 to have any meaningful impact on diet. And I think 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.920 it's that kind of we're like, yeah, it's fine, Like 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.600 maybe there's a little less nutrition, but there's also no salmonella. 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.960 That's probably a bigger problem for the baby. That's the 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:14.360 best trade off. Babies are notoriously vulnerable to dying. Um, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.200 that's what everybody says about. They're so easy to kill. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:22.200 Oh my god, don't you every time? I like, easy, dude, easy, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.280 If I wanted to, I could kill like many babies 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.640 in a row. Absolutely, I'm not, but I could do it. 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:31.360 But it's good to know. It's good to know, you know. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.760 Sometimes I just like walk past the park and go 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.080 like I could take you all if I needed, if 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.120 I needed to, you know, if I needed to, if 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:45.480 the chips were down anyway. So there's this immediate like 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.240 backlash against pasteurization, which is mainly due to like the expense, 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:50.880 it's going to cost money to do this they're gonna 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.440 have to retool the milk producers. You'd have to retool 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.640 your whole production line to allow for pasteurization. Um. Now, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.760 obviously pasteurization would also allow milk to last a lot longer. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.040 You can keep it good for a shipload longer if 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.000 you pasteurize it. So a logical person might say like, hey, yeah, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.640 you're gonna spend more money retooling your production lines, but 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.600 you'll get to keep your milk for longer and it'll 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.000 all work out in the end. Um. But the milk 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.440 companies are just like, no, it's gonna cost us money, Like, 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.320 fuck that ship. We don't want to stop having our 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.680 cow juice dumped into a bottle that a guy then 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.600 sneezes a mouthful of chewing tobacco into before half acidly 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.479 ceiling and leaving a the hots son. So they resisted pasteurization, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.160 but they were really open to better at ways to 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.480 preserve milk. They just wanted it to be cheaper than 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.840 pasteurization was going to be. In eighteen nine six, Dr 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.720 John Herdie, a former professor from Purdue, formally endorsed the 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.840 use of use of formaldehyde as a good food preservative. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.160 Now that sounds like we're gonna say something like quack 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.280 doctor ship. It's actually not that fucked up. A whole 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.000 lot of foods you eat every day contained formaldehyde. There's 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.000 formaldehyde and pairs and apples and like all crustacean uh 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.080 that all crustaceans that we eat in mushrooms, they've all 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.400 got some amount of formal behyde in them. It's it's fine. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.560 It exists in because it preserves things like generally, when 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.120 you're looking at like fruits that last longer on the shelf, 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.440 it's because there's some formaldehyde in them. We're not shooting 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.240 them into that. It's just like a thing that occurs 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.880 in nature. Um. So Dr Herdie realizes this and he's like, well, clearly, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.400 even though like this stuff can be toxic, and quantity 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.240 tiny amounts of it can be fine. And so he 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.160 proposed using a very small amount two drops of formal 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.520 lyne and formal line is like formaldehyde six water. So 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:36.080 just two drops of very deluded formaldehyde per pint of milk. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:37.600 So that's his suggestion. If we do, if we put 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.520 in a tiny amount, it will make the milk keep 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.760 a lot longer and it won't be toxic. Um, they'll 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.480 still have well, will it still have salmonella though? I mean, 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.720 uh yeah, I mean potentially yes, that does. It does 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.280 not clear the salmonella part. Now, that said like, the 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.000 longer you leave it out, the more risk of a 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:54.600 lot of bad things happen. So it does make it 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.720 a lot safer. Um. But so he's like, hey, a 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.040 tiny amount of formaldehyde can help your milk last longer 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.960 on the shelf. The milk producers big businesses. All they 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.919 hear is, oh, there's a way to make our product 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.320 lasts longer. Uh, and we should just pour as much 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.680 of the ship in there as we possibly can. Right. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.680 And to talk about how this went, I'm going to 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.239 quote Deborah Bloom, who was like the fucking expert on 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:23.200 specifically this ship, writing for Smithsonian magazine. Quote, So, dairymen 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.639 began increasing the dosa fermaldehyde, seeking to keep their product 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.280 fresh for as long as possible. Chemical companies came up 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.000 with new formaldehyde mixtures with an ocuous names such as 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:37.560 ice lean or preserve a Lean for milk died. The 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.560 latter was said to keep a pint of milk fresh 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.800 for up to ten days, and as the dairy industry 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.119 increased the amount of preservatives, the milk became more and 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.719 more toxic. Heard. He was alarmed enough that by eight 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.639 he was urging that formaldehyde used to be stopped, citing 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.440 increasing knowledge that the compound could be dangerous even in 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.359 small doses, especially to children, but the industry did not 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.840 heed the warning. In the summer of nineteen hundred, the 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.800 Indianapolis News reported the deaths of three infants in the 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:06.600 city's orphanage due to formaldehyde poisoning. A further investigation indicated 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.160 that at least thirty children had died two years prior 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.119 due to the use of the preservative, and in nineteen 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.720 o one, Hurdy himself referenced the death of deaths of 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.359 more than four hundred children due to a combination of 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.280 formaldehyde dirt in bacteria in the milk. Another analysis calculated 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.520 that there was so much raw ship in milk that 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.280 the citizens of Indianapolis consumed and estimated two thousand pounds 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.800 of poop per year. What the so it's not just 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.800 the formaldehyde, but they go hog wild, They're just dumping 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:38.159 it in there. Um, it's very funny. Two thousand pounds 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.120 of ship per year by the city of Indianapolis. I mean, 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.520 just like straight there's they're just they're the dudo is 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.679 in the milk. The ship in the milk. Now too, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.000 Oh there's always been ship in the milk, buddy, man. Well, 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.040 I don't know if you've ever had like livestock, but 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.840 they're not they get ship gets everywhere they poop and 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:57.560 they're not. They don't like it's like you've seen that 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:01.160 pig poop balls image, like, oh yeah, my favorite animals 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.600 that get poop on them and they don't really care 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.359 about it that much. And sometimes that means poop's going 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.760 to get in the milk, especially if you're keeping them 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.040 in like a really dirty, horrific feed lot where like 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.840 the ship piles up to their ankles. Um. And we'll 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.440 talk about the conditions these cows are kept in because 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.879 oh boy, Matt, are you going to enjoy that organic? 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:25.240 Do do? Bath? Let's hear about it, dude, I'm excited now. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.800 So this guy Hurti, who had been like, yeah, a 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.399 little bit of for amalde hyde might help and then 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.080 was like immediately horrified by what the food industry was doing. Um. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.639 He becomes an advocate for reform within the legal system 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.440 to stop this stuff, and as a result of his lobbying, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.480 Indiana passes a pure food law in eight which should 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.000 have made the adulteration that, as we already said, went 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.240 on well passed eighteen nine very illegal. But this keeps 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.240 going on because the law was kind of it was 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.040 more of an aspirational law than a real law, because 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.520 they were like, this isn't allowed. But they were also like, 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.959 we're going to spend zero dollars to stop this, Like 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.760 we we're not gonna you will not enforce this, like 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.560 we don't have the resources to stop the formaldehyde milk 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.440 from spreading, but we just want to let you know 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.280 not cold. It is kind of my ideal situation for drugs, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.440 where we keep them illegal, but we also make it 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.720 like fire all of the police in in d e 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.119 A Agents so that nobody can prosecute you for it, 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.800 and then you can still feel cool when you do drugs. Right, Yeah, 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:29.119 that's that's the ideal. That's the sea. Yeah. You convince 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.800 children not to do heroin until you turn a certain age, 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:38.600 and you know, and exactly, yeah, that's the age of yeah, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.280 a certain amount, right, yeah, you know, yeah, a little bit, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.160 a little bit goes a long way. It's like that, 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.760 and that's why they used to give babies medicinal children's 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:52.080 medicinal heroin, good times. That's why our grandparents were all healthy. Yeah, 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.960 so chill about everything. That's why they spent their whole 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:02.800 lives withdrawing love our grandparents. Yeah so uh. The year 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.720