Speaker 1: In his New York Times interview on Wednesday, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: broke rather dramatically from his Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Trump
Speaker 1: said that he had he known Sessions would refuse himself
Speaker 1: from the investigation into Russian meddling in the election, the
Speaker 1: president would have chosen someone else for the post. Trump
Speaker 1: blames sessions recusal for the appointment of Special counsel Robert Mueller.
Speaker 1: According to a new Bloomberg story, Mueller is now conducting
Speaker 1: a wide ranging probe into some of the President's business
Speaker 1: dealings and those of his associates. With us to talk
Speaker 1: about this fast changing subject is Leah Lippman. She's a
Speaker 1: law professor at the University of California, Irvine. Leah, thanks
Speaker 1: for being with us. UM. Let's start with Jeff Sessions today,
Speaker 1: he said he wasn't going to resign, notwithstanding with the
Speaker 1: President said in the President's apparent lack of confidence in him.
Speaker 1: Is he in an untenable position now? I think he's
Speaker 1: certainly in a difficult situation. You know, he no longer
Speaker 1: has the public support from the White House. UM. He's
Speaker 1: also received some criticism from former d Og officials for
Speaker 1: his failure to defend the department independence from the president. Um,
Speaker 1: when the president has made the marks, including this one,
Speaker 1: that the department for his own purposes instead of as
Speaker 1: a justice that his mission identifies. Leah, is it this
Speaker 1: different from a different an attorney general under a different
Speaker 1: kind of president? Because Donald Trump doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: particularly concerned or involved about the issues that Jeff Sessions
Speaker 1: is concerned about. He seems to be going off on
Speaker 1: his own. UM. Yeah, so it might be UM, but
Speaker 1: that it tells might raise additional problems for the president.
Speaker 1: You know, Jeff Sessions had done UM a lot in
Speaker 1: his tenure already, the Department launching the new guidelines about
Speaker 1: these the civil formiture proceedings just this test week. But
Speaker 1: the stuff that the presidency is most interested in is
Speaker 1: Jeff sessions ability to control the Russia related investigation. And
Speaker 1: that raises some problems for the admitted sustration because, for
Speaker 1: one thing, it substantiates some of the UM allegations that
Speaker 1: have come out thus far that the president is requesting
Speaker 1: owes the perginal loyalty from officials to serve under him. Um.
Speaker 1: You know he's complained about Jeff Sessions is that he
Speaker 1: didn't disclose to the president that he would have recused
Speaker 1: and if he had disclosed at the president would have
Speaker 1: hired someone else who would be more loyal to the
Speaker 1: president with respect of the Russia related investigation, um So,
Speaker 1: I think that the President's single minded focused on Jeff
Speaker 1: Session's role as it relates to the President's own interests,
Speaker 1: um is not a great look for the administration. Leah,
Speaker 1: can you just remind us why Jeff Sessions recused himself
Speaker 1: from the Russian investigation in the first place, and in
Speaker 1: your mind, did he have a whole lot of choice
Speaker 1: in doing that? Sure, um So, Jeff Sessions procused himself
Speaker 1: in the Russia related investigations because after he was confirmed,
Speaker 1: it came out that he had failed to disclose some
Speaker 1: meetings he had had um with Russian officials, and because
Speaker 1: its undisclosed contact with Russian officials were potentially relevant to
Speaker 1: the investigation into the Trump campaign and Trump affiliates links
Speaker 1: to connections with Russia, he had to refuse himself from
Speaker 1: a position in which he controlled that investigation. To my mind,
Speaker 1: he did not have much choice in his decision to
Speaker 1: recuse so, and this again creates a problem for the president,
Speaker 1: and that the president is essentially criticizing just Sessions for
Speaker 1: following the law. Um leah Um. The President told The
Speaker 1: New York Times yesterday that Robert Mueller digging into matters
Speaker 1: beyond Russia would be out of bounds. He did not
Speaker 1: say whether or not he would attempt to fire him
Speaker 1: if he tried that. If he went down that route,
Speaker 1: would that be a very big mistake or even a
Speaker 1: small mistake. UM. So it's difficult to know exactly, UM,
Speaker 1: what line the President would draw with respect to Robert Mueller.
Speaker 1: You know, many of his affiliates are already speaking publicly
Speaker 1: about concerns that they have with the Mueller investigation, including UM,
Speaker 1: his very appointment as well as his staff, UM and whatnot.
Speaker 1: If the President ultimately makes the decision to fire Robert
Speaker 1: Mueller or attempt to find an official below him who
Speaker 1: would do so, that that would raise real problems. UM.
Speaker 1: The current regulations only allow the Attorney General or in
Speaker 1: this case coecutly the Attorney General Rod Roseen Games and
Speaker 1: suspessitions as were too, to fire UM the Special Council
Speaker 1: once they've been appointed. So if the President tried to
Speaker 1: fire Mueller outside of the legal process, that would see
Speaker 1: up an instance in which the president is acting a
Speaker 1: legal league and Congress would have to decide what to
Speaker 1: do about that. If instead the President went the route
Speaker 1: of trying to find an official like Rod Rosenstein or
Speaker 1: someone who would sub in for Rod Rosenscheine to fire
Speaker 1: Mueller instead of himself doing it, that would take us
Speaker 1: back to some of the concerns that were part of
Speaker 1: the Saturday night massacre that eventually contributed to in free
Speaker 1: public and congressional scrutiny on President nixent lye, we only
Speaker 1: have about a minute left, but I would like to
Speaker 1: get your reaction to the Bloomberg story today about the
Speaker 1: broad broadening of the Muller probe, or at least the
Speaker 1: fact that he is now conducting a pretty wide inquiry
Speaker 1: into some of Donald Trump's business dealings, at least with
Speaker 1: regard to Russia. What what What's your your take on
Speaker 1: that story? So, I guess I found it both significant
Speaker 1: but also not surprising. It's not that surprising that the
Speaker 1: investigation would look to some of the Trump businesses connections
Speaker 1: with Russia, because to the extent that they're looking for
Speaker 1: the Trump Canapians connection with Russia's than any financial dealings
Speaker 1: and leverage that the Russian government might have of those
Speaker 1: officials is very much relevant to their investigation because it
Speaker 1: explains potential notives for the funnies feeling. But it was
Speaker 1: also very significant because, as I think you previous best mentioned,
Speaker 1: it does greatly expand the scope of the potential materials
Speaker 1: that might be relevant to the Special Council's investigation. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to thank our guest, Leah Littman. She is
Speaker 1: a law professor at the University of California, Irvine. Talking about,
Speaker 1: among other things, Donald Trump's comments that he wished she
Speaker 1: had appointed somebody else other than Jeff Sessions to be
Speaker 1: Attorney General,