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Speaker 1: In his New York Times interview on Wednesday, Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: broke rather dramatically from his Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Trump

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Speaker 1: said that he had he known Sessions would refuse himself

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Speaker 1: from the investigation into Russian meddling in the election, the

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Speaker 1: president would have chosen someone else for the post. Trump

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Speaker 1: blames sessions recusal for the appointment of Special counsel Robert Mueller.

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Speaker 1: According to a new Bloomberg story, Mueller is now conducting

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Speaker 1: a wide ranging probe into some of the President's business

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Speaker 1: dealings and those of his associates. With us to talk

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Speaker 1: about this fast changing subject is Leah Lippman. She's a

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Speaker 1: law professor at the University of California, Irvine. Leah, thanks

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Speaker 1: for being with us. UM. Let's start with Jeff Sessions today,

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Speaker 1: he said he wasn't going to resign, notwithstanding with the

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Speaker 1: President said in the President's apparent lack of confidence in him.

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Speaker 1: Is he in an untenable position now? I think he's

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Speaker 1: certainly in a difficult situation. You know, he no longer

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Speaker 1: has the public support from the White House. UM. He's

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Speaker 1: also received some criticism from former d Og officials for

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Speaker 1: his failure to defend the department independence from the president. Um,

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Speaker 1: when the president has made the marks, including this one,

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Speaker 1: that the department for his own purposes instead of as

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Speaker 1: a justice that his mission identifies. Leah, is it this

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Speaker 1: different from a different an attorney general under a different

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Speaker 1: kind of president? Because Donald Trump doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 1: particularly concerned or involved about the issues that Jeff Sessions

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Speaker 1: is concerned about. He seems to be going off on

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Speaker 1: his own. UM. Yeah, so it might be UM, but

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Speaker 1: that it tells might raise additional problems for the president.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jeff Sessions had done UM a lot in

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Speaker 1: his tenure already, the Department launching the new guidelines about

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Speaker 1: these the civil formiture proceedings just this test week. But

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Speaker 1: the stuff that the presidency is most interested in is

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Speaker 1: Jeff sessions ability to control the Russia related investigation. And

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Speaker 1: that raises some problems for the admitted sustration because, for

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Speaker 1: one thing, it substantiates some of the UM allegations that

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Speaker 1: have come out thus far that the president is requesting

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Speaker 1: owes the perginal loyalty from officials to serve under him. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know he's complained about Jeff Sessions is that he

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Speaker 1: didn't disclose to the president that he would have recused

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Speaker 1: and if he had disclosed at the president would have

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Speaker 1: hired someone else who would be more loyal to the

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Speaker 1: president with respect of the Russia related investigation, um So,

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Speaker 1: I think that the President's single minded focused on Jeff

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Speaker 1: Session's role as it relates to the President's own interests,

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Speaker 1: um is not a great look for the administration. Leah,

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Speaker 1: can you just remind us why Jeff Sessions recused himself

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Speaker 1: from the Russian investigation in the first place, and in

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Speaker 1: your mind, did he have a whole lot of choice

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Speaker 1: in doing that? Sure, um So, Jeff Sessions procused himself

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Speaker 1: in the Russia related investigations because after he was confirmed,

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Speaker 1: it came out that he had failed to disclose some

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Speaker 1: meetings he had had um with Russian officials, and because

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Speaker 1: its undisclosed contact with Russian officials were potentially relevant to

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Speaker 1: the investigation into the Trump campaign and Trump affiliates links

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Speaker 1: to connections with Russia, he had to refuse himself from

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Speaker 1: a position in which he controlled that investigation. To my mind,

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Speaker 1: he did not have much choice in his decision to

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Speaker 1: recuse so, and this again creates a problem for the president,

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Speaker 1: and that the president is essentially criticizing just Sessions for

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Speaker 1: following the law. Um leah Um. The President told The

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Speaker 1: New York Times yesterday that Robert Mueller digging into matters

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Speaker 1: beyond Russia would be out of bounds. He did not

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Speaker 1: say whether or not he would attempt to fire him

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Speaker 1: if he tried that. If he went down that route,

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Speaker 1: would that be a very big mistake or even a

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Speaker 1: small mistake. UM. So it's difficult to know exactly, UM,

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Speaker 1: what line the President would draw with respect to Robert Mueller.

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Speaker 1: You know, many of his affiliates are already speaking publicly

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Speaker 1: about concerns that they have with the Mueller investigation, including UM,

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Speaker 1: his very appointment as well as his staff, UM and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: If the President ultimately makes the decision to fire Robert

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Speaker 1: Mueller or attempt to find an official below him who

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Speaker 1: would do so, that that would raise real problems. UM.

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Speaker 1: The current regulations only allow the Attorney General or in

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Speaker 1: this case coecutly the Attorney General Rod Roseen Games and

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Speaker 1: suspessitions as were too, to fire UM the Special Council

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Speaker 1: once they've been appointed. So if the President tried to

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Speaker 1: fire Mueller outside of the legal process, that would see

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Speaker 1: up an instance in which the president is acting a

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Speaker 1: legal league and Congress would have to decide what to

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Speaker 1: do about that. If instead the President went the route

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Speaker 1: of trying to find an official like Rod Rosenstein or

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Speaker 1: someone who would sub in for Rod Rosenscheine to fire

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Speaker 1: Mueller instead of himself doing it, that would take us

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Speaker 1: back to some of the concerns that were part of

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Speaker 1: the Saturday night massacre that eventually contributed to in free

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Speaker 1: public and congressional scrutiny on President nixent lye, we only

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Speaker 1: have about a minute left, but I would like to

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Speaker 1: get your reaction to the Bloomberg story today about the

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Speaker 1: broad broadening of the Muller probe, or at least the

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Speaker 1: fact that he is now conducting a pretty wide inquiry

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Speaker 1: into some of Donald Trump's business dealings, at least with

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Speaker 1: regard to Russia. What what What's your your take on

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Speaker 1: that story? So, I guess I found it both significant

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Speaker 1: but also not surprising. It's not that surprising that the

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Speaker 1: investigation would look to some of the Trump businesses connections

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Speaker 1: with Russia, because to the extent that they're looking for

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Speaker 1: the Trump Canapians connection with Russia's than any financial dealings

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Speaker 1: and leverage that the Russian government might have of those

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Speaker 1: officials is very much relevant to their investigation because it

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Speaker 1: explains potential notives for the funnies feeling. But it was

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Speaker 1: also very significant because, as I think you previous best mentioned,

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Speaker 1: it does greatly expand the scope of the potential materials

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Speaker 1: that might be relevant to the Special Council's investigation. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to thank our guest, Leah Littman. She is

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Speaker 1: a law professor at the University of California, Irvine. Talking about,

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Speaker 1: among other things, Donald Trump's comments that he wished she

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Speaker 1: had appointed somebody else other than Jeff Sessions to be

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Speaker 1: Attorney General,