1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:22,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin, How you doing, doc? I'm good. How are you? 2 00:00:23,116 --> 00:00:25,636 Speaker 1: I have no complaints today? Well, I guess I do, 3 00:00:25,676 --> 00:00:28,116 Speaker 1: but I mean none none. I want to go over. 4 00:00:28,156 --> 00:00:32,636 Speaker 1: It's a regular complaint of it, exactly. Yeah, you know, 5 00:00:32,796 --> 00:00:37,916 Speaker 1: just like it's a Wednesday. This is solvable. I'm Ronald 6 00:00:37,916 --> 00:00:41,636 Speaker 1: Young Junior. Just the impact of being black in this 7 00:00:41,796 --> 00:00:45,196 Speaker 1: world comes with its own mental health challenges, because of racism, 8 00:00:45,236 --> 00:00:47,996 Speaker 1: because of discrimination, because of all of these things. In 9 00:00:48,076 --> 00:00:51,236 Speaker 1: May twenty twenty, US Census Bureau data revealed that thirty 10 00:00:51,236 --> 00:00:55,796 Speaker 1: four out of every one hundred American adults experienced depression, anxiety, 11 00:00:56,276 --> 00:00:59,596 Speaker 1: or both, and while many rely on psychotherapy as an 12 00:00:59,636 --> 00:01:03,196 Speaker 1: effective tool for managing their mental health, for Black Americans, 13 00:01:03,716 --> 00:01:07,756 Speaker 1: that path to wellness was not necessarily paid with good intentions. 14 00:01:07,996 --> 00:01:10,396 Speaker 1: The system was not develop looked with us in mind, 15 00:01:10,796 --> 00:01:13,196 Speaker 1: and it has been really harmful. You know. There was 16 00:01:13,356 --> 00:01:16,676 Speaker 1: a diagnosis at one point in the DSM, which is 17 00:01:16,676 --> 00:01:21,476 Speaker 1: our big manual of mental health concerns for slaves who 18 00:01:21,596 --> 00:01:26,596 Speaker 1: ran away from their plantation. According to the American Psychiatric Association, 19 00:01:27,076 --> 00:01:30,236 Speaker 1: black people are more often diagnosed with schizophrenia and less 20 00:01:30,236 --> 00:01:33,076 Speaker 1: often diagnosed with mood disorders compared to white people with 21 00:01:33,116 --> 00:01:36,716 Speaker 1: the same symptoms. We're offered medication and therapy at lower 22 00:01:36,796 --> 00:01:40,396 Speaker 1: rates than the general population. Only about four percent of 23 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:44,436 Speaker 1: therapists are black. Another challenge can be the internal struggle 24 00:01:44,716 --> 00:01:47,956 Speaker 1: over whether or not therapy is the right choice. A 25 00:01:47,996 --> 00:01:51,396 Speaker 1: lot of Black families, at least historically, have like very 26 00:01:51,516 --> 00:01:55,236 Speaker 1: deep religious and spiritual backgrounds, and so for a very 27 00:01:55,276 --> 00:01:57,076 Speaker 1: long time, it was thought that if you had a 28 00:01:57,116 --> 00:01:59,836 Speaker 1: mental illness or you were struggling with your mental health, 29 00:01:59,836 --> 00:02:05,916 Speaker 1: that meant you had a weak relationship with God. Doctor 30 00:02:06,036 --> 00:02:10,236 Speaker 1: Joy Harden Bradford is a licensed psychologist and the founder 31 00:02:10,276 --> 00:02:13,556 Speaker 1: of Therapy for Black Girls, an online resource that encourages 32 00:02:13,596 --> 00:02:16,636 Speaker 1: the mental well being of black women and girls. She 33 00:02:16,796 --> 00:02:19,636 Speaker 1: created the platform to break down the stigmas that keep 34 00:02:19,676 --> 00:02:23,156 Speaker 1: black folks from pursuing therapy and help people connect to 35 00:02:23,196 --> 00:02:26,516 Speaker 1: the support they need. Doctor Harden also serves as the 36 00:02:26,516 --> 00:02:29,556 Speaker 1: host of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a series 37 00:02:29,596 --> 00:02:33,596 Speaker 1: of weekly conversations around mental health and personal development. Making 38 00:02:33,636 --> 00:02:37,316 Speaker 1: mental health content and resources that are relevant inaccessible is 39 00:02:37,316 --> 00:02:46,836 Speaker 1: a solvable problem. What was your earliest introduction of therapy? 40 00:02:47,356 --> 00:02:51,356 Speaker 1: Therapy probably wasn't something that I saw until I went 41 00:02:51,396 --> 00:02:54,036 Speaker 1: to undergrad because it was a kind of thing where 42 00:02:54,076 --> 00:02:58,196 Speaker 1: like nobody talks about now. Of course, looking back, you know, 43 00:02:59,076 --> 00:03:01,596 Speaker 1: there were lots of conversations like from my mom and 44 00:03:01,716 --> 00:03:05,036 Speaker 1: my aunts around like oh, my nerves are bad, right, 45 00:03:05,196 --> 00:03:08,676 Speaker 1: And so clearly now as an adult and as a psychologist, 46 00:03:08,796 --> 00:03:11,956 Speaker 1: I know the language of that is anxiety, right, But 47 00:03:12,436 --> 00:03:14,516 Speaker 1: then it was just kind of like, oh, you know, 48 00:03:14,556 --> 00:03:16,956 Speaker 1: they're just you know, worked up or whatever, Like there 49 00:03:17,076 --> 00:03:20,476 Speaker 1: was never a language or nobody talked about anxiety. You know. 50 00:03:20,556 --> 00:03:23,156 Speaker 1: I'm from a very small town in Louisiana, and so 51 00:03:23,556 --> 00:03:25,756 Speaker 1: you know, there weren't lots of conversations. I don't even 52 00:03:25,796 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 1: know that there is a practicing therapist probably within fifteen 53 00:03:29,236 --> 00:03:31,916 Speaker 1: to twenty miles of my home. So I kind of 54 00:03:31,916 --> 00:03:34,596 Speaker 1: got interested in psychology in high school because I had 55 00:03:34,636 --> 00:03:38,076 Speaker 1: an opportunity to take a like a catalog class where 56 00:03:38,076 --> 00:03:41,076 Speaker 1: they rolled this TV into the classroom and you like 57 00:03:41,516 --> 00:03:44,236 Speaker 1: watch this recording. So that's when I fell in love 58 00:03:44,276 --> 00:03:47,156 Speaker 1: with psychology. And so when I went to Underground, I 59 00:03:47,236 --> 00:03:50,036 Speaker 1: knew I wanted to be a psych major, but I 60 00:03:50,076 --> 00:03:53,796 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to do like a shadowing of a 61 00:03:53,956 --> 00:03:56,556 Speaker 1: therapist in New Orleans, and that was the first time 62 00:03:56,596 --> 00:03:59,996 Speaker 1: I actually saw therapy done when you got to the 63 00:04:00,036 --> 00:04:02,476 Speaker 1: point where you were actually in the seat yourself, like 64 00:04:02,756 --> 00:04:05,676 Speaker 1: providing therapy to folks. Wasn't then that you were able 65 00:04:05,716 --> 00:04:08,676 Speaker 1: to make the connection about the absence of this valuable 66 00:04:08,716 --> 00:04:12,156 Speaker 1: tool for black people and kind of the position that 67 00:04:12,156 --> 00:04:14,556 Speaker 1: you're in to be able to offer this type of help. Yeah, 68 00:04:14,636 --> 00:04:16,956 Speaker 1: I mean, you know so. In my PHU program, of course, 69 00:04:16,996 --> 00:04:19,836 Speaker 1: we learned a lot about like just the discrepancies in 70 00:04:20,156 --> 00:04:23,356 Speaker 1: the stigma related to mental health services, you know, particularly 71 00:04:23,356 --> 00:04:27,276 Speaker 1: in communities of color black people especially. Once I learned 72 00:04:27,316 --> 00:04:29,676 Speaker 1: about that, it definitely felt like, well, if I am 73 00:04:29,716 --> 00:04:32,236 Speaker 1: going to be in grad school and like dedicating my 74 00:04:32,276 --> 00:04:34,396 Speaker 1: life to this work, then I'm definitely going to be 75 00:04:34,676 --> 00:04:37,036 Speaker 1: helping people who look like me. But why do you 76 00:04:37,076 --> 00:04:39,796 Speaker 1: think this stigma exists for black people? Because I feel like, 77 00:04:39,836 --> 00:04:42,636 Speaker 1: as a black person growing up, like therapy has always 78 00:04:42,676 --> 00:04:45,476 Speaker 1: been something and we always just shied away from. And 79 00:04:45,516 --> 00:04:49,476 Speaker 1: for me growing up growing up religious, it's it's always 80 00:04:49,476 --> 00:04:51,956 Speaker 1: been attached to the fact that we turn to Jesus 81 00:04:51,956 --> 00:04:54,396 Speaker 1: for our help, like which if you need help, you pray, 82 00:04:54,516 --> 00:04:56,636 Speaker 1: you go to God in prayer, take your burdens to 83 00:04:56,636 --> 00:04:58,556 Speaker 1: the Lord, leave them there all that those are all 84 00:04:58,556 --> 00:05:01,996 Speaker 1: the language that we've used growing up. So do you 85 00:05:02,036 --> 00:05:03,876 Speaker 1: think that's the root of the stigma or is there 86 00:05:03,916 --> 00:05:06,876 Speaker 1: something deeper that comes with being black that gives us 87 00:05:06,916 --> 00:05:09,556 Speaker 1: this aversion of therapy. I think that you have hit 88 00:05:09,596 --> 00:05:11,076 Speaker 1: the nail on the head. I feel like that is 89 00:05:11,076 --> 00:05:14,036 Speaker 1: a really large part of it. Just like numbers wise, 90 00:05:14,196 --> 00:05:17,276 Speaker 1: a lot of black families, at least historically, have like 91 00:05:17,516 --> 00:05:21,276 Speaker 1: very deep religious and spiritual backgrounds, And so for a 92 00:05:21,356 --> 00:05:23,316 Speaker 1: very long time, it was thought that if you had 93 00:05:23,316 --> 00:05:26,156 Speaker 1: a mental illness or you were struggling with your mental health, 94 00:05:26,156 --> 00:05:28,996 Speaker 1: that meant you had a weak relationship with God, right, 95 00:05:29,116 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 1: or you weren't strong enough in your walk with God, 96 00:05:31,316 --> 00:05:33,676 Speaker 1: or you know, whatever your faith practice was. And so 97 00:05:33,716 --> 00:05:35,636 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of us historically, that is 98 00:05:35,676 --> 00:05:38,716 Speaker 1: where it has come from. So I grew up Catholic, well, 99 00:05:38,756 --> 00:05:40,436 Speaker 1: my dad is Baptist, so we kind of grew up 100 00:05:40,516 --> 00:05:42,636 Speaker 1: kind of in a hybrid. But I also think that 101 00:05:42,676 --> 00:05:46,316 Speaker 1: we cannot discount the danger and the harm that has 102 00:05:46,316 --> 00:05:49,396 Speaker 1: been done by the mental health field. You know. So this, again, 103 00:05:49,516 --> 00:05:51,876 Speaker 1: like many things in the world, was not created by 104 00:05:51,916 --> 00:05:54,876 Speaker 1: black people, right. This was created by older white men, 105 00:05:55,036 --> 00:05:57,516 Speaker 1: some from the US and some from other countries, and 106 00:05:57,636 --> 00:06:00,556 Speaker 1: the system was not developed with us in mind, and 107 00:06:00,596 --> 00:06:03,116 Speaker 1: it has been really harmful. You know, there was a 108 00:06:03,156 --> 00:06:06,476 Speaker 1: diagnosis at one point in the DSM, which is our 109 00:06:07,156 --> 00:06:11,316 Speaker 1: big manual of mental health concerns for slaves who ran 110 00:06:11,356 --> 00:06:16,596 Speaker 1: away from their plantation. So clearly very adaptive behavior and 111 00:06:17,276 --> 00:06:20,236 Speaker 1: behavior that I would consider very normal and healthy has 112 00:06:20,316 --> 00:06:23,516 Speaker 1: been stigmatized, right, and so it has not always been 113 00:06:23,596 --> 00:06:25,756 Speaker 1: safe for us to be able to share that we 114 00:06:25,796 --> 00:06:33,756 Speaker 1: are struggling with things. My friend Morgan encouraged me to 115 00:06:33,796 --> 00:06:36,596 Speaker 1: talk to a therapist for several months before I committed 116 00:06:36,596 --> 00:06:39,036 Speaker 1: to going myself. For me, it was a matter of 117 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:41,516 Speaker 1: not only being able to have the support I needed, 118 00:06:41,996 --> 00:06:46,636 Speaker 1: but to be supported and validated by someone black. I 119 00:06:46,676 --> 00:06:49,356 Speaker 1: thought the second part would be a major hurdle, but 120 00:06:49,476 --> 00:06:52,036 Speaker 1: in this case, finding a black therapist was as easy 121 00:06:52,036 --> 00:06:54,596 Speaker 1: as being referred by someone else black who had been 122 00:06:54,636 --> 00:06:59,196 Speaker 1: in therapy. However, for many Black Americans those resources are 123 00:06:59,236 --> 00:07:02,796 Speaker 1: not just one friend away. Doctor Harden Bradford works to 124 00:07:02,836 --> 00:07:11,316 Speaker 1: address that. Tell me how you started therapy for black girls? 125 00:07:11,636 --> 00:07:14,836 Speaker 1: So I started therapy for black girls after watching the 126 00:07:14,916 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 1: Black Girls Rock Award show on bat Black women in 127 00:07:19,796 --> 00:07:23,436 Speaker 1: various genres are given awards for like music and philanthropy 128 00:07:23,476 --> 00:07:26,996 Speaker 1: and education. Right, So people were dancing and celebrating and 129 00:07:27,036 --> 00:07:29,876 Speaker 1: loving on one another, and so really what I wanted 130 00:07:29,876 --> 00:07:31,676 Speaker 1: to do was kind of capture some of that same 131 00:07:31,756 --> 00:07:34,916 Speaker 1: kind of energy that could be applied to mental health. 132 00:07:35,356 --> 00:07:38,636 Speaker 1: And so I purchased the domain and then at the time, 133 00:07:38,676 --> 00:07:41,436 Speaker 1: I just started blogging on the site, and so I 134 00:07:41,516 --> 00:07:44,156 Speaker 1: was sharing information about like what kinds of questions do 135 00:07:44,236 --> 00:07:45,916 Speaker 1: you ask a therapist? How do I know if I 136 00:07:45,956 --> 00:07:48,556 Speaker 1: need a therapist? You know, am I depressed? How do 137 00:07:48,636 --> 00:07:52,036 Speaker 1: you have healthy friendships? Like just general mental health kinds 138 00:07:52,036 --> 00:07:55,396 Speaker 1: of things. And I started listening to a lot of podcasts, 139 00:07:55,756 --> 00:07:58,796 Speaker 1: and so I added the podcast because I fell in 140 00:07:58,836 --> 00:08:02,316 Speaker 1: love with the medium of podcasting, right and so right 141 00:08:02,396 --> 00:08:06,396 Speaker 1: as you have also right, And it just felt like, 142 00:08:06,436 --> 00:08:08,956 Speaker 1: you know, yes, I'm blogging on the site, but podcasts 143 00:08:09,116 --> 00:08:11,236 Speaker 1: to be a really cool way to be able to 144 00:08:11,276 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 1: share some of this information that might reach a very 145 00:08:13,756 --> 00:08:17,436 Speaker 1: different audience. And so adding the podcast as well as 146 00:08:17,436 --> 00:08:20,596 Speaker 1: the therapist directory, I really feel like, you know, just 147 00:08:20,676 --> 00:08:23,796 Speaker 1: kind of reach a need that people really had at 148 00:08:23,796 --> 00:08:28,596 Speaker 1: the time. I only recently started therapy, probably in December 149 00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:31,036 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, so it hasn't been very long. And one 150 00:08:31,036 --> 00:08:33,356 Speaker 1: of the issues I noticed was that there really isn't 151 00:08:33,756 --> 00:08:37,036 Speaker 1: a ton of resources in the black community for people 152 00:08:37,076 --> 00:08:39,716 Speaker 1: who have who have never been exposed to therapy, don't 153 00:08:39,716 --> 00:08:42,196 Speaker 1: know anything about therapy, and don't know how to get 154 00:08:42,276 --> 00:08:46,276 Speaker 1: to therapy. There's a lack of black therapists in the 155 00:08:46,396 --> 00:08:50,076 Speaker 1: mental health community. So how are you helping to solve 156 00:08:50,116 --> 00:08:52,076 Speaker 1: for that? So I spent a lot of time on 157 00:08:52,116 --> 00:08:55,316 Speaker 1: social media, and I kept seeing people have the same 158 00:08:55,396 --> 00:08:58,156 Speaker 1: kind of conversation, you know, like, oh, I'd love to 159 00:08:58,196 --> 00:09:00,596 Speaker 1: have a black woman therapists. Anybody have a suggestion for 160 00:09:00,596 --> 00:09:03,116 Speaker 1: a black woman therapist? And I thought, why isn't there 161 00:09:03,116 --> 00:09:06,196 Speaker 1: a place where we can have all of this information together. 162 00:09:06,916 --> 00:09:09,516 Speaker 1: I started the directory really as just a Google form, 163 00:09:09,836 --> 00:09:12,836 Speaker 1: So I put out a questionnaire saying, you know, if 164 00:09:12,836 --> 00:09:14,756 Speaker 1: you're a black woman and you've had a good experience 165 00:09:14,756 --> 00:09:17,876 Speaker 1: with your therapists, list them here and I will compile 166 00:09:17,956 --> 00:09:20,716 Speaker 1: it so that other people can maybe find, you know, 167 00:09:20,756 --> 00:09:23,876 Speaker 1: a good connection as well. And it really just kind 168 00:09:23,876 --> 00:09:26,676 Speaker 1: of grew word of mouth and it became a thing 169 00:09:26,676 --> 00:09:29,836 Speaker 1: that I could not manage by myself anymore. So I 170 00:09:29,876 --> 00:09:33,916 Speaker 1: think I started that in December of twenty sixteen, and 171 00:09:33,956 --> 00:09:36,036 Speaker 1: by the end of that year, we had like ninety 172 00:09:36,116 --> 00:09:39,436 Speaker 1: therapists listed in the Google form and now the directory 173 00:09:39,436 --> 00:09:42,716 Speaker 1: has over four thousand therapists, and so it really has 174 00:09:42,716 --> 00:09:44,996 Speaker 1: just grown because you know, like we've been talking about, 175 00:09:45,036 --> 00:09:46,756 Speaker 1: like there is a real need a lot of people 176 00:09:46,996 --> 00:09:49,796 Speaker 1: who are finally taking that step to talk with a therapist. 177 00:09:49,836 --> 00:09:51,916 Speaker 1: Do you want a therapist who looks like them? And 178 00:09:51,956 --> 00:09:54,196 Speaker 1: so the directory I think has been helpful for people 179 00:09:54,196 --> 00:09:56,996 Speaker 1: in that search. On your podcast, you like to use 180 00:09:57,036 --> 00:09:59,596 Speaker 1: pop culture as a way to break down mental health? 181 00:10:00,756 --> 00:10:05,156 Speaker 1: How's the show Insecure a useful tool for educating people 182 00:10:05,196 --> 00:10:07,916 Speaker 1: about mental health and relationships? One of my favorite shows, 183 00:10:07,916 --> 00:10:10,396 Speaker 1: by the way, Yeah, it is such a great show, 184 00:10:10,436 --> 00:10:13,076 Speaker 1: and I feel like especially from my audience, right and 185 00:10:13,116 --> 00:10:15,316 Speaker 1: lots of people love Insecure, but I think especially for 186 00:10:15,436 --> 00:10:19,276 Speaker 1: black women, it is such a nice way to kind 187 00:10:19,276 --> 00:10:22,596 Speaker 1: of see the issues and the concerns that kind of 188 00:10:22,636 --> 00:10:25,476 Speaker 1: play out in black women's lives like easily on screen, 189 00:10:25,876 --> 00:10:28,236 Speaker 1: and so you know that, I think it's also a 190 00:10:28,276 --> 00:10:30,716 Speaker 1: way to kind of reduce the stigma related to mental 191 00:10:30,756 --> 00:10:33,516 Speaker 1: health because we can talk about what's happening between Issa 192 00:10:33,556 --> 00:10:36,796 Speaker 1: and Molly as opposed to like talking about what's happening 193 00:10:36,796 --> 00:10:38,676 Speaker 1: with you, Right, So if we can talk about it 194 00:10:38,716 --> 00:10:40,876 Speaker 1: with a character and you identify with some of it, 195 00:10:41,156 --> 00:10:43,516 Speaker 1: then you may start to ask yourself some questions. You 196 00:10:43,556 --> 00:10:45,956 Speaker 1: may start to think like, oh, okay, maybe I can 197 00:10:45,956 --> 00:10:48,236 Speaker 1: talk with a therapist about those things. And so I 198 00:10:48,276 --> 00:10:50,556 Speaker 1: think when you can use pop culture, it adds a 199 00:10:50,596 --> 00:10:52,636 Speaker 1: way for people to kind of have some of these 200 00:10:52,676 --> 00:10:56,276 Speaker 1: conversations that don't feel threatening, that don't feel like as 201 00:10:56,356 --> 00:11:00,156 Speaker 1: personal because you're talking about characters or you know, TV shows. 202 00:11:00,476 --> 00:11:02,716 Speaker 1: This is addingcdotal, I'm sure, but I think it's something 203 00:11:02,716 --> 00:11:04,516 Speaker 1: that you would bide, will probably agree on that black 204 00:11:04,556 --> 00:11:08,116 Speaker 1: women seem to bear the burden of much of the 205 00:11:08,196 --> 00:11:11,516 Speaker 1: strain of the black community if anything, like you know, 206 00:11:11,596 --> 00:11:13,756 Speaker 1: you see you've read the means and seeing the stuff 207 00:11:13,796 --> 00:11:17,516 Speaker 1: that people say about black women in both lights, both 208 00:11:17,556 --> 00:11:20,556 Speaker 1: negative and positive, do you have any feelings about the 209 00:11:20,596 --> 00:11:23,716 Speaker 1: responsibilities of black women having to bear this burden of 210 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:27,796 Speaker 1: mental health for the black community. We know about this 211 00:11:27,916 --> 00:11:31,236 Speaker 1: strong black woman's stereotype in our community, and I think 212 00:11:31,276 --> 00:11:34,436 Speaker 1: for a lot of people we sometimes fall into that. 213 00:11:34,556 --> 00:11:36,716 Speaker 1: Because you get a lot of praise for being a 214 00:11:36,756 --> 00:11:38,676 Speaker 1: strong black woman, right, Like people look up to you, 215 00:11:38,716 --> 00:11:41,276 Speaker 1: they congratulate you. There's a lot of praise related to it. 216 00:11:41,476 --> 00:11:43,596 Speaker 1: But I don't think we always think about the toll 217 00:11:43,836 --> 00:11:47,556 Speaker 1: emotionally physically that that can take on us, like wanting 218 00:11:47,596 --> 00:11:49,876 Speaker 1: to kind of be there for everybody else, And so 219 00:11:49,916 --> 00:11:52,236 Speaker 1: I think it's unfair to place black women in that 220 00:11:52,716 --> 00:11:55,316 Speaker 1: in that kind of a situation, And I hope more 221 00:11:55,356 --> 00:11:58,356 Speaker 1: people can do the work of actually tending to their 222 00:11:58,436 --> 00:12:00,716 Speaker 1: own mental health for themselves and not looking for other 223 00:12:00,716 --> 00:12:03,236 Speaker 1: people to do that for them. Do you have methods 224 00:12:03,236 --> 00:12:05,716 Speaker 1: in ways that you recharge yourself, like seeing as you're 225 00:12:05,716 --> 00:12:08,796 Speaker 1: sitting in that seat. Yeah, so you know, I feel 226 00:12:08,836 --> 00:12:10,836 Speaker 1: like this has been a huge lesson for me. I mean, 227 00:12:10,916 --> 00:12:13,756 Speaker 1: especially as the work of therapy for black girls has grown, 228 00:12:13,836 --> 00:12:17,236 Speaker 1: like boundary setting has become more and more critical for me. 229 00:12:17,676 --> 00:12:20,476 Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot more saying known to things and 230 00:12:20,876 --> 00:12:24,076 Speaker 1: have built a team around myself to help me also 231 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:26,036 Speaker 1: to manage, you know, just some of the things that 232 00:12:26,076 --> 00:12:28,756 Speaker 1: are coming in because the work is really important, but 233 00:12:28,796 --> 00:12:31,276 Speaker 1: the work can't continue if I'm not taking care of myself, 234 00:12:31,316 --> 00:12:33,796 Speaker 1: and so it's important for me to stay grounded to 235 00:12:33,876 --> 00:12:38,236 Speaker 1: who just joy is not necessarily doctor joy, so staying 236 00:12:38,236 --> 00:12:40,636 Speaker 1: connected to family and friends has been critical part of 237 00:12:40,636 --> 00:12:50,316 Speaker 1: that self care work for me too. On the hit 238 00:12:50,476 --> 00:12:54,036 Speaker 1: HBO show The Sopranos, the lead character Tony Soprano is 239 00:12:54,156 --> 00:12:57,836 Speaker 1: my boss suffering from panic attacks. He goes to see 240 00:12:57,836 --> 00:13:00,116 Speaker 1: a therapist, but as the leader of a crime family, 241 00:13:00,476 --> 00:13:02,996 Speaker 1: he keeps it largely under wraps. He worris that if 242 00:13:02,996 --> 00:13:06,076 Speaker 1: his subordinates arrivals were to find out, they might use 243 00:13:06,116 --> 00:13:11,196 Speaker 1: his vulnerabilities against them. Now, I know Sopranos's fiction, but 244 00:13:11,276 --> 00:13:14,916 Speaker 1: I can relate to Tony. For him, emotional vulnerability was 245 00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:18,156 Speaker 1: an occupational hazard, and while that's not the case for me, 246 00:13:18,596 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 1: it still feels risky as a man, especially, we aren't 247 00:13:22,956 --> 00:13:26,556 Speaker 1: commonly encouraged to admit challenges or to address tough feelings. 248 00:13:26,996 --> 00:13:30,236 Speaker 1: A lot of the messaging we receive, whether from media, sports, 249 00:13:30,356 --> 00:13:33,556 Speaker 1: or even each other, lacks the compassion that might encourage 250 00:13:33,636 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 1: us to admit that we don't have everything that we need. 251 00:13:45,356 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 1: You focus on therapy for black girls, and I love 252 00:13:48,276 --> 00:13:51,836 Speaker 1: that this is centered around black women. I think it's important. However, 253 00:13:51,876 --> 00:13:54,436 Speaker 1: we know that there are a lot of black men 254 00:13:54,516 --> 00:13:56,796 Speaker 1: that need to go to therapy, and that's that's a 255 00:13:56,876 --> 00:13:59,156 Speaker 1: Ronald opinion statement. So I don't want to get anybody 256 00:13:59,156 --> 00:14:00,836 Speaker 1: in trouble. What I say that a lot of people 257 00:14:00,916 --> 00:14:04,956 Speaker 1: in general just need to go Yeah, agreed. So but 258 00:14:05,076 --> 00:14:07,276 Speaker 1: how do we especially when we talk about the stigma, 259 00:14:07,316 --> 00:14:09,796 Speaker 1: I would say that stigma exists probably a lot more 260 00:14:09,796 --> 00:14:12,676 Speaker 1: for black men that don't go to therapy or would 261 00:14:12,676 --> 00:14:15,436 Speaker 1: never even step footing the therapist's office for a litany 262 00:14:15,436 --> 00:14:17,796 Speaker 1: of reasons. Is there any work to be done to 263 00:14:18,516 --> 00:14:22,436 Speaker 1: focus on black men in those ways? Absolutely? There are 264 00:14:22,516 --> 00:14:25,036 Speaker 1: concerns and things that black men also need to kind 265 00:14:25,076 --> 00:14:28,196 Speaker 1: of unpack and dig into you in therapy. So there 266 00:14:28,236 --> 00:14:31,556 Speaker 1: are lots of organizations that are doing incredible work related 267 00:14:31,596 --> 00:14:34,596 Speaker 1: to black men in therapy. So I have a colleague, 268 00:14:34,676 --> 00:14:38,756 Speaker 1: Rishawn Miller, who has a company called you Stress, who 269 00:14:38,796 --> 00:14:41,236 Speaker 1: does a lot of great work just kind of normalizing 270 00:14:41,436 --> 00:14:44,676 Speaker 1: mental health for black men. Um there's also an organization 271 00:14:44,716 --> 00:14:47,556 Speaker 1: called Therapy for Black Men who does some of that 272 00:14:47,596 --> 00:14:50,756 Speaker 1: work as well. So, as women, we do have it 273 00:14:51,076 --> 00:14:53,916 Speaker 1: a little easier in terms of like our emotions sometimes 274 00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:57,276 Speaker 1: being normalized, but we know that by large, you know, 275 00:14:57,356 --> 00:14:59,836 Speaker 1: men are taught that you shouldn't have emotions and you 276 00:14:59,876 --> 00:15:02,516 Speaker 1: gotta be strong and just push through it. Right now, 277 00:15:02,876 --> 00:15:05,516 Speaker 1: that is exactly man up, and so that definitely is 278 00:15:05,556 --> 00:15:09,916 Speaker 1: an added barrier to keep reaching out for services. In 279 00:15:09,956 --> 00:15:13,756 Speaker 1: the past year, we've had a lot happened. There's been 280 00:15:13,796 --> 00:15:16,956 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, There's been the killing of George Floyd and 281 00:15:17,076 --> 00:15:19,716 Speaker 1: racial awakening. There was the ending of the presidency of 282 00:15:20,236 --> 00:15:22,476 Speaker 1: Donald Trump at the beginning of the Biden presidency. We've 283 00:15:22,476 --> 00:15:24,836 Speaker 1: had a lot of change and a lot of things 284 00:15:24,876 --> 00:15:29,076 Speaker 1: that particularly hit the mental health of black folks. In 285 00:15:29,196 --> 00:15:31,596 Speaker 1: what ways have you seen these traumas come up in 286 00:15:31,676 --> 00:15:37,396 Speaker 1: your work? M Yeah, I think people are probably predominantly 287 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:41,996 Speaker 1: operating in a space of chronic stress right now, right, 288 00:15:42,076 --> 00:15:43,956 Speaker 1: you know, so all of the things that you've listed, 289 00:15:44,036 --> 00:15:46,716 Speaker 1: plus like just everyday life, and a lot of what 290 00:15:46,756 --> 00:15:49,916 Speaker 1: we are experiencing is a grief reaction, not only to 291 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 1: people we may have lost in our lives and just 292 00:15:52,676 --> 00:15:56,116 Speaker 1: the number of people who have died related to COVID nineteen, 293 00:15:56,116 --> 00:15:58,596 Speaker 1: but also it's just the loss of life as we 294 00:15:58,716 --> 00:16:01,156 Speaker 1: knew it, you know, loss of like you know, a 295 00:16:01,236 --> 00:16:03,556 Speaker 1: steady schedule, like there's just been a lot that we 296 00:16:03,636 --> 00:16:06,316 Speaker 1: have had to grieve and as a society, I don't 297 00:16:06,356 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 1: think we do well with grief and endings, and so 298 00:16:08,876 --> 00:16:10,676 Speaker 1: I think a lot of what we're seeing now in 299 00:16:10,796 --> 00:16:13,556 Speaker 1: terms of like these outbursts that people have on planes 300 00:16:14,116 --> 00:16:16,756 Speaker 1: and you know, altercations in the grocery stores, like, I 301 00:16:16,756 --> 00:16:19,276 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of that is related to people 302 00:16:19,356 --> 00:16:22,596 Speaker 1: just not recognizing that they are in a chronic stress 303 00:16:22,676 --> 00:16:24,956 Speaker 1: kind of a place right now. And so I think 304 00:16:25,116 --> 00:16:27,036 Speaker 1: mental health is something that we all have to take 305 00:16:27,036 --> 00:16:29,556 Speaker 1: care of, and we do know just the impact of 306 00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:32,036 Speaker 1: being black in this world comes with its own mental 307 00:16:32,036 --> 00:16:35,276 Speaker 1: health challenges because of racism, because of discrimination, because of 308 00:16:35,316 --> 00:16:37,916 Speaker 1: all of these things, and so on the other side 309 00:16:37,996 --> 00:16:41,596 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, whenever that is, we will have to 310 00:16:41,636 --> 00:16:45,156 Speaker 1: deal with what these past eighteen plus months have done 311 00:16:45,156 --> 00:16:46,756 Speaker 1: to people. And I think a lot of people are 312 00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:48,956 Speaker 1: still just trying to make it day by day, and 313 00:16:48,996 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 1: so they don't necessarily recognize like how they may maybe 314 00:16:52,476 --> 00:16:54,756 Speaker 1: reacting in a way that's not typical to how they 315 00:16:54,836 --> 00:16:57,956 Speaker 1: usually act. Do you think that black folks are disproportionately 316 00:16:58,036 --> 00:17:02,396 Speaker 1: bearing the burden of mental health challenges in the country 317 00:17:02,476 --> 00:17:05,596 Speaker 1: right now? I mean, I definitely think the numbers are 318 00:17:05,596 --> 00:17:07,836 Speaker 1: probably higher. Just when we look at like the number 319 00:17:07,876 --> 00:17:10,596 Speaker 1: of deaths that have had related to COVID nineteen. We 320 00:17:10,636 --> 00:17:13,716 Speaker 1: know that that's been higher in the black community and 321 00:17:13,996 --> 00:17:16,396 Speaker 1: all of the racism and all of the other you know, 322 00:17:16,476 --> 00:17:19,596 Speaker 1: kind of microaggressions and things that have happened on top 323 00:17:19,636 --> 00:17:21,676 Speaker 1: of us just trying to stay safe in a pandemic, 324 00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:23,636 Speaker 1: you know. So I definitely think that there are some 325 00:17:23,716 --> 00:17:27,156 Speaker 1: higher levels of stress for black people that don't exist 326 00:17:27,156 --> 00:17:39,716 Speaker 1: in other communities. What can our listeners do if they're 327 00:17:39,756 --> 00:17:42,796 Speaker 1: listening right now and they want to help get involved 328 00:17:42,836 --> 00:17:47,116 Speaker 1: with destigmatizing therapy for black folks, what can they do 329 00:17:47,196 --> 00:17:50,676 Speaker 1: to help? So I think one of the best ways 330 00:17:50,796 --> 00:17:53,756 Speaker 1: to really help is to like pay attention to the 331 00:17:53,796 --> 00:17:57,276 Speaker 1: black people in your life and like give them a break. Right. So, 332 00:17:57,316 --> 00:17:59,796 Speaker 1: if you are an employer or you are in a 333 00:17:59,836 --> 00:18:02,596 Speaker 1: position of power and you have the ability to give 334 00:18:02,636 --> 00:18:05,876 Speaker 1: people flex time or days off or those kinds of things, 335 00:18:06,036 --> 00:18:08,716 Speaker 1: like you should just expect that the black people in 336 00:18:08,716 --> 00:18:11,876 Speaker 1: your life are struggling in multiple different ways, right, And 337 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:14,116 Speaker 1: so I think being able to kind of give days 338 00:18:14,156 --> 00:18:16,396 Speaker 1: off and like checking with people to say, how are 339 00:18:16,436 --> 00:18:19,596 Speaker 1: you honestly doing is really really important without of course 340 00:18:19,636 --> 00:18:23,796 Speaker 1: being invasive, right, you don't want to pry, and yeah, 341 00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:25,436 Speaker 1: you don't want to do all of that. You don't 342 00:18:25,436 --> 00:18:27,236 Speaker 1: want to do all of that, But you know, honestly 343 00:18:27,276 --> 00:18:29,276 Speaker 1: making an effort to check in on your people, I 344 00:18:29,316 --> 00:18:31,796 Speaker 1: think is really important and can actually go a very 345 00:18:31,836 --> 00:18:35,036 Speaker 1: long way. There's an organization we work with a lot 346 00:18:35,116 --> 00:18:39,716 Speaker 1: called the Loveland Foundation, which raises funds for black women 347 00:18:39,796 --> 00:18:42,956 Speaker 1: and girls to ghost to therapy. So if you recognize 348 00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:45,436 Speaker 1: this as something that is, you know, something that needs 349 00:18:45,436 --> 00:18:48,036 Speaker 1: some work and something that needs some resources, and you 350 00:18:48,116 --> 00:18:51,356 Speaker 1: have available resources, then donating to them would be a 351 00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:54,076 Speaker 1: really good way to kind of use your resources. There's 352 00:18:54,116 --> 00:18:56,516 Speaker 1: also a new book that came out recently that is 353 00:18:56,916 --> 00:19:00,396 Speaker 1: excellent just in talking about the interior lives of black women. 354 00:19:00,476 --> 00:19:02,596 Speaker 1: So that it's a book called Nobody Knows the Trouble. 355 00:19:02,636 --> 00:19:05,756 Speaker 1: I've seen the emotional lives of Black women, you know, 356 00:19:05,796 --> 00:19:08,316 Speaker 1: for people who are interested and for black women themselves 357 00:19:08,316 --> 00:19:10,876 Speaker 1: who just want to kind of break down this strong 358 00:19:10,916 --> 00:19:13,196 Speaker 1: black woman idea and really get in touch with how 359 00:19:13,236 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 1: they can do a better job of setting boundaries and 360 00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:17,676 Speaker 1: being more in touch with their emotions, that would be 361 00:19:17,716 --> 00:19:19,836 Speaker 1: a great book to check out. When do you say 362 00:19:19,876 --> 00:19:22,796 Speaker 1: that this work, your work is kind of like reached 363 00:19:22,916 --> 00:19:26,276 Speaker 1: it's and I guess it's really never done. But when 364 00:19:26,276 --> 00:19:28,916 Speaker 1: would you look back and say, wow, we've really we've 365 00:19:28,956 --> 00:19:31,316 Speaker 1: really turned some things around here. What does that look 366 00:19:31,356 --> 00:19:33,516 Speaker 1: like for you? You know, I think we're already seeing, 367 00:19:33,596 --> 00:19:37,156 Speaker 1: you know, just more conversations from people around. Oh. My 368 00:19:37,196 --> 00:19:40,356 Speaker 1: therapist said this in session. Are people sharing you know, 369 00:19:40,436 --> 00:19:42,436 Speaker 1: self help books that they have read that have been 370 00:19:42,476 --> 00:19:45,276 Speaker 1: impactful for them. But the work, you know, therapy is 371 00:19:45,276 --> 00:19:48,316 Speaker 1: not going to be what everybody does, and so you know, 372 00:19:48,356 --> 00:19:50,036 Speaker 1: there are lots of other things that you can do 373 00:19:50,116 --> 00:19:52,156 Speaker 1: in terms of like taking care of your mental health. 374 00:19:52,436 --> 00:19:55,276 Speaker 1: Do you have a good handle on what boundary setting 375 00:19:55,356 --> 00:19:58,996 Speaker 1: looks like. Are you practicing things like mindfulness so that 376 00:19:59,036 --> 00:20:02,516 Speaker 1: you are staying engaged in the present moment. Do you 377 00:20:02,676 --> 00:20:06,836 Speaker 1: have like healthy conflict resolution skills? Do you understand like 378 00:20:06,876 --> 00:20:09,636 Speaker 1: what it means to regulate your emotions? Like? All of 379 00:20:09,636 --> 00:20:12,036 Speaker 1: those things are also a part of taking care of 380 00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:14,916 Speaker 1: our mental health, not just therapy. In five years, I 381 00:20:14,956 --> 00:20:17,356 Speaker 1: think we will see even more, but I already am seeing, 382 00:20:17,396 --> 00:20:20,276 Speaker 1: you know, a greater conversation around mental health, which is 383 00:20:20,276 --> 00:20:24,676 Speaker 1: really encouraging. Thank you so much, doctor Joy for being 384 00:20:24,676 --> 00:20:32,996 Speaker 1: confessed welcome. Thank you. Doctor Joy Harden Bradford is a 385 00:20:32,996 --> 00:20:36,476 Speaker 1: licensed psychologist, author, and the founder of the online resource 386 00:20:36,796 --> 00:20:39,556 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls. She's also the host of the 387 00:20:39,556 --> 00:20:44,516 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I started therapy for a 388 00:20:44,636 --> 00:20:47,756 Speaker 1: personal reason, and I stay in therapy because I recognize 389 00:20:47,796 --> 00:20:50,476 Speaker 1: the positive impact that it has on my life. While 390 00:20:50,516 --> 00:20:53,236 Speaker 1: there are plenty of systemic issues that black folks face 391 00:20:53,356 --> 00:20:56,156 Speaker 1: that won't be resolved by talking to a therapist, there 392 00:20:56,156 --> 00:20:59,516 Speaker 1: are plenty of personal issues that can be unpacked and 393 00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:04,116 Speaker 1: processed to our benefit. And there's something that's just so 394 00:21:04,276 --> 00:21:09,436 Speaker 1: valuable about taking the time to speak and truly have 395 00:21:09,596 --> 00:21:13,036 Speaker 1: someone listen. If you were someone who knows in crisis, 396 00:21:13,436 --> 00:21:17,436 Speaker 1: please call one eight hundred six six two Help. That's 397 00:21:17,476 --> 00:21:21,356 Speaker 1: one eight hundred six six two four three five seven. 398 00:21:21,996 --> 00:21:25,116 Speaker 1: And if you're looking for additional mental health resources, check 399 00:21:25,156 --> 00:21:28,916 Speaker 1: out the links will include in our show notes. Solvable 400 00:21:28,996 --> 00:21:33,596 Speaker 1: is produced by Joscelyn Frank, research by David Jah, booking 401 00:21:33,796 --> 00:21:37,836 Speaker 1: by Lisa Dunnon. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and 402 00:21:37,916 --> 00:21:42,276 Speaker 1: our executive producer is mio Lebelle. I'm Ronald Young Jr. 403 00:21:43,076 --> 00:21:43,876 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.