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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Save your Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm

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Speaker 1: Annie Resoce.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren vulglah bam, and today we have an

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Speaker 2: episode for you about exo sauce.

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Speaker 3: Yes, oh yes.

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Speaker 1: Was there any particular reason this was on your mind?

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Speaker 3: Lauren H.

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Speaker 2: I think while I was trying to compile episode ideas

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Speaker 2: a while back, I was looking through lists of condiments

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Speaker 2: and I was like, ooh, I want to I want

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Speaker 2: to be eating exo sauce right now. Let's look into that.

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Speaker 2: And upon my you know, brief foray into let's look

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Speaker 2: into that, I was like, oh, yeah, that's fun. Let's

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Speaker 2: indeed look further into that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, wow, I don't know that I've ever had exosauce.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: And then after we did this, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: must get some. And as the reading warned me, it's

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Speaker 1: quite expensive.

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Speaker 2: It can be very pricey. You can usually find jars

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Speaker 2: for like three ounces ish for like fifteen bucks. That

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Speaker 2: is on the low end. And I think I just

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Speaker 2: spoiled my one number that I have in our number section.

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Speaker 3: So here we go.

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Speaker 1: No, but you you have familiarity with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've definitely been at least one restaurant around Atlanta

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Speaker 2: that has had it on the table, and gosh, now

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Speaker 2: I'm forgetting, but yeah, like maybe it's someone's home or

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Speaker 2: maybe like a cocktail bar. I definitely started reading about

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Speaker 2: it a whole lot, like maybe right before the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: and got super curious about it and started like speci

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Speaker 2: looking for it, and so yeah, here we are.

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Speaker 1: Here we are. You can see our past condiment episodes

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Speaker 1: perhaps garum chili oil, shasha scallops, worcestershure sauce.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all related.

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Speaker 1: They're all related. But I suppose that does bring us

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Speaker 1: to our question. It does exo sauce?

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Speaker 3: What is it?

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Speaker 2: Well, Exo sauce is a type of savory seafood based

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Speaker 2: preserves in oil, like like a thick and chunky paste

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Speaker 2: that combines a bunch of ingredients into this salty, savory,

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Speaker 2: sweet punch of concentrated flavor. It can be used as

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Speaker 2: a condiment or as a seasoning during cooking. It's not

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Speaker 2: a proprietary term, so recipes will vary, but you're usually

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Speaker 2: looking at a sort of base of aromatic vegetables like

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Speaker 2: garlick or shallotsinger and fresh or dried hot chilies seasoned

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Speaker 2: with wine soy sauce, maybe a bit of sugar and

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Speaker 2: warm spices like star annis or cinnamon, and then with

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Speaker 2: like star ingredients of fine chopped bits of proteins that

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Speaker 2: have already themselves been intensified in flavor through the salt

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Speaker 2: curing process. We're talking like brined and dried scallops and

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Speaker 2: shrimp and dry cured ham. So you've got all these

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Speaker 2: layers of like savory and salty with just enough sweet

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Speaker 2: and spicy and pungent to contrast, and then you pan

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Speaker 2: fried all in oil to bring everything together. And it

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Speaker 2: can go straight on top of noodles or dumplings or rice.

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Speaker 2: You can use it to flavor stews or roasted vegetables

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Speaker 2: or grilled meats or sautees or sauces of whatever kind.

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Speaker 2: It is briny and a little funky and intense and complex.

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Speaker 2: It's like when you're on a walk out in nature,

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Speaker 2: or maybe window shop or like at an art gallery,

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Speaker 2: and you glance across something so fascinating that you are

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Speaker 2: compelled to stop and really check it out, like like

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Speaker 2: walk all the way around it, if you can like

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Speaker 2: observe the texture from different angles. It's like eating, that

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Speaker 2: feeling of fascination.

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Speaker 1: I want it. Just looking at the ingredients list, I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm going to dig this. This is a

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Speaker 1: punch that I'm gonna like.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah. It does tend to be expensive to buy

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Speaker 2: or to make yourself, because those those main protein ingredients

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Speaker 2: are pricey. That said, a little usually goes a long way,

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Speaker 2: and okay, let's talk about those ingredients a little bit

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Speaker 2: more so. Dried seafood is a category that some Americans

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Speaker 2: might not be too familiar with, but it tends to

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Speaker 2: be pretty big in like East Southeast Asian cuisines because

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Speaker 2: it is a great way to preserve a seafood catch

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Speaker 2: and also add a lot of flavor to a dish.

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Speaker 2: Once you've done that preservation. Typically what you're doing with

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Speaker 2: your shrimp or scallops or whatever is you know, cleaning them,

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Speaker 2: doing a wet brine, you know, just saltwater, maybe cooking

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Speaker 2: them briefly, and then drying them. And there are different

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Speaker 2: sizes and grades and price levels. The big high quality

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Speaker 2: varieties can be like one hundred bucks a pound, especially

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Speaker 2: the scallops, which you can sometimes find under the term conpoy,

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Speaker 2: which is taken from the Cantonese exosauce originated in Hong Kong.

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Speaker 2: Traditional recipes often include instead of, or in addition to,

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Speaker 2: shrimp dried shrimp row yeah, which I don't think i've

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Speaker 2: had before, but now I'm fascinated by. Yeah, And you

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Speaker 2: usually rehydrate the seafood before you cook it. The traditional

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Speaker 2: ham ingredient is a variety called jinoa ham, which is

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Speaker 2: a specialty made in Eastern China. It's drag heared ham.

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Speaker 2: It's preserved by being salted and dried for several months,

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Speaker 2: during which fermentation helps shape the final flavors and textures

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Speaker 2: of the ham. I don't think i've had it, like,

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Speaker 2: you can't import it in the US, but I understand.

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Speaker 2: It's nutty, smoky, salty, funky sweet, just like really rich

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Speaker 2: and dense, akin to like a hamonberrico or maybe an

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Speaker 2: extra cheery pershudo or like a really good country ham.

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Speaker 2: Yes right, Oh gosh, all of these are ingredients that

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Speaker 2: we could do whole episodes on, and I hope that

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Speaker 2: we will in the future. And so yeah. The alcohol

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Speaker 2: is traditionally shushing wine, which is this category of Chinese

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Speaker 2: rice wine. Outside of China, it's hard to get good

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Speaker 2: quality product. It's usually sold as a cooking wine. A

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Speaker 2: decent substitute would be like a dry sherry. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can do riffs on exo sauce that include anything

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Speaker 2: you like and use other seafood ingredients like dried fish

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Speaker 2: or squid. You can use all pork ingredients like bacon

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Speaker 2: and country ham. You can season it with lemon grass

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Speaker 2: or sesame oil, or punch up the savory salty flavors

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Speaker 2: with like oyster sauce, dark soy sauce, fish sauce, or bullion.

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Speaker 2: I've read recipes for vegetarian versions that get their savory

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Speaker 2: kick from ingredients like dried or smoked mushrooms, fermented and

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Speaker 2: dried vegetables, or tofu or like a fermented bean paste

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Speaker 2: kind of situation. All of this sounds so amazing. I'm

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Speaker 2: so mad. I'm so mad that I want to not

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Speaker 2: only be eating this right now, I want to be

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Speaker 2: like trying like twenty different varieties. If you are making

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Speaker 2: it at home, keep in mind that although like yes,

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Speaker 2: you are pan frying everything in oil, it should be

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Speaker 2: a low and slow fry akin to a confee, like

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Speaker 2: you want to let the oil really permeate everything, get

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Speaker 2: all those flavors playing together, and yeah, in some pots,

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Speaker 2: gets of restaurant culture, like being offered a little dish

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Speaker 2: of exo sauce with your meal is a marker of

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Speaker 2: fine dining hospitality along the lines of getting like a

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Speaker 2: like a amuse boosch or maybe a palate cleanser in

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Speaker 2: between courses. Like it's a way for the kitchen to

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Speaker 2: show off its technique and it's its sensibilities and to

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Speaker 2: provide like an above and beyond experience for the customer.

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Speaker 2: On the flip side, it's also a flavor now for

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Speaker 2: processed foods like ramen and potato chips.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting. I have plumbed the depths of ramen.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen this yet, but I'm gonna I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: seek it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, on the potato chip end, I know that Lay's excellent.

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Speaker 2: Thailand branch has had this as a flavor a few times,

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Speaker 2: So look out for that.

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Speaker 1: Listeners, Well, let us know, let us know. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well what about the nutrition.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're not typically eating enough to make a

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Speaker 2: nutritive difference, but it is a nutrient dense food. Eat

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Speaker 2: a vegetable, drink of water. Yeah, yeah, yes, well.

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Speaker 1: We have a number for you that perhaps will spoil,

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Speaker 1: but yes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so a small jar of exosos will run you

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Speaker 2: about fifteen bucks on the low end, I'm talking like

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Speaker 2: a condiment sized jar, right like three ounces, which is

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Speaker 2: eighty grams or thereabouts. A jar from the restaurant that

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Speaker 2: supposedly invented it is on the higher end, which is

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Speaker 2: around fifty five bucks.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I got to say, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people vying for this.

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Speaker 3: Supposedly invented the.

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Speaker 1: Fart there is.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of one of those legendary things. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: we are going to get into that in the history

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Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon

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Speaker 2: as we get back from a quick break for word

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Speaker 2: from our sponsors, and we're back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, so yes. According to

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Speaker 1: most sources, Exo sauce originated in Hong Kong in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and eighties, most likely at upscale restaurants. The

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Speaker 1: sauce was composed of pretty expensive and high quality ingredients

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Speaker 1: like dried scallop, jin wa ham and shrimpro so it

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Speaker 1: makes sense that it may have been a condiment at

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Speaker 1: fancier restaurants. First, very quick breakdown of those ingredients, all

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Speaker 1: of which should could be their own episodes. First, jinoa ham.

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Speaker 1: This ham goes back to at least the tenth century CE.

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Speaker 1: It is believed to be the oldest dried ham type

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Speaker 1: in China. According to some Marco Polo took these cuing

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Speaker 1: and drying techniques from China back to Europe after his

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Speaker 1: time there. The pig itself traditionally used for the sam,

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Speaker 1: has been present in the country for an estimated sixteen

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Speaker 1: hundred or more years nowadays, and at the time of

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Speaker 1: Exo's invention it wasn't is expensive and kind of rare.

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Speaker 1: Then there are dried scallops our compoy in Hong Kong,

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Speaker 1: as they're called, were the results of folks trying to

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Speaker 1: preserve seafood and in this case often expensive type of seafood.

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Speaker 1: They go as far back as two hundred BCE, though

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Speaker 1: clearly methods have changed. I read it described as like

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Speaker 1: the most delicious bacon of the sea.

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Speaker 2: Right, you spend one hundred bucks in a bag of these?

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Speaker 3: So bad I know, right?

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Speaker 1: And then very similar story with dried shrimp. Essentially, as

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Speaker 1: long as people have been catching things like shrimp. They'd

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Speaker 1: been seasoning them and then drying them to preserve them,

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Speaker 1: but still could be very expensive process.

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Speaker 2: So oh yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's another theory that perhaps Exo sauce was the result

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Speaker 1: of chefs in Hong Kong experimenting with chili oil, but

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Speaker 1: there isn't much to substantiate that claim. Hong Kong restaurants

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Speaker 1: Spring Moon at the famous Peninsula Hotel claims that they

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Speaker 1: came up with this sauce in nineteen eighty six. They

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Speaker 1: call their version of Exo Exo Chili Sauce okay, and

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Speaker 1: theirs was a combo of dried scallop, shrimpro chili, and garlic,

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Speaker 1: which does sound delicious.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah yes.

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Speaker 1: In this version of events, the sauce was the inspiration

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Speaker 1: of food critic and writer Wong Ting Shu. He was

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Speaker 1: working as a consultant at the restaurant in eighty six

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Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, what if we did this?

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Speaker 2: What if? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Here we are.

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Speaker 1: Another theory is that food critic Twa Lamb made a

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Speaker 1: similar sauce to modern day Exo sauce with dried scallops

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Speaker 1: and shimpro and served it to famous folks and then

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Speaker 1: just took off from there. Others say that this sauce

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Speaker 1: was being made at seafood restaurants already, and all of

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Speaker 1: these examples were perhaps people or venues that popularized it

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Speaker 1: like it was a thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they just.

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Speaker 1: They just realized they could make some money off of it.

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Speaker 1: But then food company Lee come Key frequently gets credit

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Speaker 1: for taking an existing sauce, modifying it a bit, and

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Speaker 1: marketing it as Exo sauce. Lee come Keys sauce debuted

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two. I didn't know this, and I

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Speaker 1: kind of felt ashamed because I feel like I should,

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Speaker 1: as like food and Treat podcastery.

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Speaker 2: I've not done an episode about this yet, so we're

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Speaker 2: still learning.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I should have Okay. Yes.

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Speaker 1: The name XO apparently has to do with the popular

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Speaker 1: brand of Kangnac and trends and taste of the time.

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Speaker 1: So in the eighties, Hennessy had a lot of success

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Speaker 1: in their launch and advertising up their aged XO grade

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Speaker 1: Kangnac XO meaning extra holes. The whole campaign worked so

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Speaker 1: well that in Hong Kong people started using the slang

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Speaker 1: XO to mean something high quality, luxurious, the best. Since

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Speaker 1: the sauce used expensive ingredients. The company thought, why not

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Speaker 1: use this slang for the name That restaurant. Spring Moon

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Speaker 1: has a similar reasoning for the name on their site.

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Speaker 3: Quote.

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Speaker 1: When naming their new condiment, the chefs reportedly took inspiration

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Speaker 1: from the labels of luxury kgnacs, which used XO to

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Speaker 1: denote an extra old, expensively aged brandy. And yeah, it

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Speaker 1: became this sauce very popular throughout China, Southern China specifically

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Speaker 1: fairly quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it really started gaining ground in the

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Speaker 2: US right around twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: So many memories twenty nineteen, Oh goodness, I do think

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Speaker 1: we did talk about a couple of things where when

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Speaker 1: like the pandemic was happening and quarantine was happening in

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Speaker 1: the US, we were like, let me try you know

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Speaker 1: what I want chili oil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I need literally anything to entertain me. And if

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Speaker 2: that's EXO sauce, let's go. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: The whole the whole ad campaign is really charming, Like

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Speaker 2: it was this lady being like, oh, that dude, he's

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Speaker 2: he's an EXO dude. Yeah. Oh and yeah, uh, the

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Speaker 2: sauce has nothing to do with Kanyac. There's never any

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Speaker 2: kind of in it from what I personally understand I read.

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Speaker 2: I read tales of some chefs attempting to incorporate kangnac

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Speaker 2: and it not working out, just being a bad idea.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I can see that. I honestly thought it

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Speaker 1: was like kisses, hugs and kisses.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah sure, yeah, so this was.

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Speaker 3: News to me.

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Speaker 1: Again, I'm learning every day, but it sounds so good

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Speaker 1: I want to try it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I just have.

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Speaker 1: So many I can see how it could improve, like

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Speaker 1: a little bit and like a soup stock or something like.

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Speaker 2: Just a little just one of those things sort of

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Speaker 2: like a like go chi jung or something where it

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Speaker 2: just it just adds something to pretty much anything that

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Speaker 2: you put it in as a sort of just like

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Speaker 2: like a little secret ingredient.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really big into soups, which is no surprise

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Speaker 1: to anyone. But I've been making a lot of like

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Speaker 1: Asian cell soups lately and I don't have specific ingredients,

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Speaker 1: but I found after we did that Shasha episode, like

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Speaker 1: you can use that just a little bit of that

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Speaker 1: and your soup stock and it will make up for

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Speaker 1: that flavor whatever ingredient you don't have I I'm making

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Speaker 1: that tonight, so I like thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: Oh that sounds amazing. All right, well, I think that

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Speaker 2: that is what we have to say about Exosauce for now.

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Speaker 1: It is. But we do have some listener mail for you.

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Speaker 2: We do, and we are going to get into that

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Speaker 2: as soon as we get back from one more quick

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Speaker 2: break for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. And we're back with

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Speaker 1: just fancy meal.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, oh okay, taking the dish off of a

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Speaker 2: fancy meal.

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Speaker 3: That okay.

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Speaker 2: I was like, are we pulling a rabbit out of

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Speaker 2: a hat? What's going on?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: But that makes more sense, That makes more sense.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna do a whole beauty in the beast thing.

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Speaker 1: But again, sometimes I gotta tame my expectations for what

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Speaker 1: we can't accomplish.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that the thought is there though.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so we have gotten a couple of messages about

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Speaker 1: Almond Joys or adjacent to Almondjoys. I'm very excited about

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Speaker 1: this and we have two for you today, starting with Christina.

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Speaker 1: Christina wrote, I couldn't tell you the last time I

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Speaker 1: had an almenjoy They had almost been wiped from my

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Speaker 1: memory until your podcast reminded me they exist. They were

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Speaker 1: my mom's favorite candy growing up, so I ate them often.

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Speaker 1: I had a very specific way of consuming. One bite

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Speaker 1: off the candy on either end of the almond on

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Speaker 1: the short side of the bar. Two bite off the

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Speaker 1: candy on the other side, Jess, so you have the

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Speaker 1: almond area. Left, bite off the part under the almond.

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Speaker 1: Three four, lastly eat the almond. Thanks to the memories,

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Speaker 1: Now to go find some moment choice.

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Speaker 3: I love this.

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Speaker 1: I love not only the particular nature of eating something,

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Speaker 1: but like we have these candies we're so specific about anyway,

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Speaker 1: and then you get even more.

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Speaker 3: Specific in it.

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Speaker 1: What always comes up in my friend group is I

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Speaker 1: don't like I'm fine with it, but I don't prefer

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Speaker 1: it the icing and oreos. Oh, I prefer the cookie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it very sweet.

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Speaker 1: The opposite for almost everyone I know, really weird. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so they always are like, what are you doing? I

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Speaker 1: just want to enjoy this cookie part without that part.

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Speaker 1: But it's funny to me how people have their specific ways. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're a little enjoying rituals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I think I think I all so would

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Speaker 2: I don't think I did the thing on the on

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Speaker 2: the short sides, but I would like isolate the almond.

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Speaker 3: Isolate the almonds.

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Speaker 1: I used to have a specific method of eating like

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Speaker 1: the Big Reese's cups.

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Speaker 3: Oh right, I would like twist off. Oh I get that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it was kind of tricky she could

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Speaker 1: pull off. So I yeah, I would love if other

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Speaker 1: listeners wrote it about your specific methods of eating candy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, oh always, Oh my goodness, Kelsey wrote. Here

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Speaker 2: in Canada we have bounty bars. Maybe our commonwealth status

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Speaker 2: versus the USA giving the British the old heave hoe

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Speaker 2: plays into a lack of bounty state side. Almond joined

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Speaker 2: mounds are relatively rare here, though I too, am very

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Speaker 2: familiar with their jingle extolling the virtues of nuts and

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Speaker 2: a lack thereof. Depending on one's desire, either bounty does

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Speaker 2: not have a jingle or it's unremarkable enough that it's

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Speaker 2: not engraved on my brain adjacently. In this country, smarties

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Speaker 2: are a slightly broader, somewhat creamier, sweeter version of eminems

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Speaker 2: and what Americans know as smart as we call rockets.

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Speaker 2: All are tasty. I, for one, find these regional differences.

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Speaker 3: Very sweet. Yes, yes, approves.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I always forget about that. That's smarties versus smarties difference. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because I've definitely had those, not eminem's that are Smarties.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I have, but I do.

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Speaker 1: This is another thing I love is hearing the contrast

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Speaker 1: in other countries what something is in preferences. But I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to know you have bounty bars.

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Speaker 2: So I guess Annie's not jealous at all.

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Speaker 1: I guess I could just cross the border, I guess so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean we can, we can work this out.

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Speaker 2: I have faith in us in this the year of

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Speaker 2: our Lord twenty twenty four, to get you a candy barn.

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Speaker 2: I think it can. I think it can happen. I'm

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Speaker 2: also glad I'm not the only one with that jingle

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Speaker 2: just permanently in my head. So that makes me feel

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Speaker 2: a little bit better or worse. I don't know which.

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Speaker 2: I like. I'm misery loves company. I'm I'm not miserable

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Speaker 2: about it. I'm always just like, really, that why that.

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Speaker 3: That's what you're holding on to bring?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's because sometimes you feel like a

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Speaker 2: nut and sometimes you don't.

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Speaker 3: They knew what was up.

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Speaker 2: They did.

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Speaker 3: They were speaking a truth true.

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Speaker 1: Line. Well, thank you to both of these listeners for

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Speaker 1: writing in. If you would like to write to us,

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Speaker 1: you can. Our email is Hello at saborpod dot com.

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Speaker 1: We are also on social media. You can as of

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Speaker 1: this moment, find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at

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Speaker 1: saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my

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Speaker 2: Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as

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Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

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Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way.