1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. This is our part two 4 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: of a two part series on the weird weird rise 5 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,319 Speaker 1: and spoiler alert fall of the flea circus. Hi, I'm 6 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: ben Hi, I'm no uh what? What? What is? How? 7 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: We flee? Flease on, flease on trapeze tiny, Now you'll 8 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: let you do a game. We flease, Okay, we we 9 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: flease on flying trapeze. We three Bethlehem. That's a good one. 10 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: It's a good tongue twister. But no, it's true. We're 11 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: back with fleas um and we should just dive right 12 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: into because I'm sure a lot of you were slightly 13 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: irritated that we left you with such a cliffhanger where 14 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: you're asking yourself, how do they do it? How? How? 15 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense. They're fleas I know that 16 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: these human fleas or a little a few millimeters bigger 17 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: than um, you know, than the traditional dog or cat fleas, 18 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: but still these are basically microscopic creatures. We talked a 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: lot about watchmaking, which requires the use of specialized tools 20 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: to handle microscopic or maybe not microscopic, but very small pieces. 21 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: So Gade, we gotta ask you, what's the deal? How 22 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: was the magic made? And before we get to that, 23 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: we have to say that a lot of those questions 24 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: and complaints came from our very own super producer, Casey Pegrum. 25 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: That's true. He was livid. He was so mad at 26 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: you gave me hit. He's got a lot of a 27 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: lot of thoughts about flea circuses and uh yeah, well 28 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: we'll try to do him proud on this one. I'm 29 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna clue you guys in because there's actually, 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it is a guarded industry. Let's say there is. 31 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 1: You guys, remember that show Breaking the Magician's Code where 32 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: that guy in the mask was These are how the 33 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: tricks are done. We're still waiting on the flee circus 34 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: version of that. It hasn't happened yet, or you know, 35 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe it did and nobody noticed. I don't know, but um, 36 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: there are you know, some tricks of the trade that 37 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: we that we know about, or or alleged tricks at least. 38 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: Um For example, one of the stories that these uh 39 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: these flea ring masters often tell and apparently by the way, 40 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: they're called professors usually, um, if you're a flee trainer, 41 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: your professor. So one story that these professors like to 42 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: share is that after they trap these fleas, they tame 43 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: them by keeping them in a shallow glass case with 44 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: a lid on it, and of course the fleas jump 45 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 1: up and bump their heads on the shallow case, and 46 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: after a few days, supposedly they're not jumping so much anymore, 47 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: not because they're dead, they're just a little more docile, 48 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: and they they've learned how high h the roof is 49 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: of their enclosure, and so they don't jump as high 50 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: anymore because they don't want to hit their heads. So 51 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: their spirits are broken, essentially strip them of their will 52 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: to live. In their brain dead, they can barely move 53 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: um and uh know, they're actually just incredibly well trained, right, 54 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: that's what they claim, at least, I mean, yeah, that's 55 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, probably just part of the act explaining that, 56 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: but they will swear to it. That's how they get 57 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: the fleas to um uh to be, that's how they 58 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: tame them, and how they keep them from jumping out 59 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: of the circus ring or whatever. They only jump yea 60 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: high because they've been conditioned to do so. I mean 61 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: they jump at their full capacity. You're out of fleet. 62 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: You don't know where they could go. It could be 63 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: out in the audience, jump onto a person. And that's 64 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: why that's why they hop, right, because they hop from 65 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: host to host. Can't have that. Yeah, But I mean, 66 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, there are those among us who would argue that, 67 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, these guys are kind of full of it. Uh, 68 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: fleas don't have the capacity for learning um. But one 69 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: thing that is true is that some fleas are better 70 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: athletes than others. Right, they can jump higher, or you know, 71 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: just move it a faster clip. And so you know, 72 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: maybe maybe you have ten fleas and there's only one 73 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: that's kind of nimble and athletic enough, you know, for 74 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: the circus life. And so fleet trainers will keep a 75 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: close eye on on, you know, a potential crop of fleas, 76 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: and they will kind of earmark the guys with potential, 77 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: the ones that are doing the most jumping, you know, 78 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: fit for the circus life, and those become the star 79 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: of the shows. The ones that scut you gotta have it. 80 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: There are is there like a minor league for fleas 81 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: are like it's all the big leagues. It's all I 82 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: just I love that as a career description. What do 83 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: you do? Actually, I am the most successful uh flee 84 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: scout in the southeast region of northwest Ohio. It's a 85 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: big claim to fame, big dreams, that's what claim to fame. Okay, 86 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: But but it is true. It makes sense that not 87 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: every every flee could be the equivalent uh the flea 88 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: version of an Hussain bolt, because not every human is, 89 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: right there always exceptionally adept living organisms. Um did they 90 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: how how did they determine this though? Like? Were they 91 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: just able to notice what's appeared to be one flee 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: consistently hopping higher or faster more often than the others? 93 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: Like for me, the biggest difficulty and again I'm I'm 94 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: not a professor in this regard, but for me, the 95 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: biggest difficulty would be uh, differentiating one flee from the next. Right, Yeah, 96 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: you would think so, but again, you know, the secrets 97 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: have not all been revealed. Um, we don't know how 98 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: they're keeping track of these guys. Maybe they're marking them, 99 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: you know, color coded fleas. Um, I'm not sure. Maybe 100 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: it's just like you know, a mother with her with 101 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: her brood. You know, she knows them each bye bye, 102 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: touch by site, by personality, person Yeah, classic Jeffrey. But yeah, 103 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: that's uh, you know, and it's really just so okay, 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 1: these guys aren't trained, right, these fleas, they're just doing 105 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: what comes naturally. They're jumping. They're jumping around. Um, they're 106 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: looking for something to land on and feed on. And 107 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: so that the trick part, the entertainment part, comes in 108 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: what you harness it to. Right. It's putting on these 109 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: little collars and and uh, you know, yoking them to 110 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: chariots or putting little tiny instruments in their hands, um, 111 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: and watching them kind of fiddle away at them. Um. 112 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: The audience kind of supplies the rest. The fleas are 113 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: just jumping around, but because they're tied to these little contraptions, 114 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: the audience reads it as a trick. Right. It's not 115 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: a flee just of mindlessly jumping. He's part of a 116 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: chariot race. He's racing the other fleas around. Um. That's 117 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, that's the illusion that they're selling. And again, 118 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: apparently it worked because this has been an act for 119 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: hundreds of years. Um, we do know again, uh, you know, 120 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: some tricks of the trade, like, for instance, the flea 121 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: music band that we talked about earlier. UM, I do 122 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: love a good music band. Well you're not alone in that, 123 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: um Bertolatto. You know, he's the one that kind of 124 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: pioneered that. Um he blew London away with his his 125 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: flea music band. UM and other people ran with the idea, 126 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: but prepared to think less of him for doing that 127 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: trick because how he actually did it was the fleas 128 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: were glued to the base of the flea circus, and 129 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: then the the instruments were glued to their mandibles, and 130 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: so when you heat the base up, the fleas tried 131 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: to escape. They were trying to get away. But again 132 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: the audience is reading this as them playing twiddling and 133 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: playing the instruments. Pay no mind to that smell of 134 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: cooking fleas. You know, I think they're so small and 135 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't smell like much. But yeah, they're essentially like 136 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: cooking alive and and trying to save themselves in there, 137 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: and that's it's essentially this is this is animal cruelty. 138 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: I think you could argue that this is animal cruelty. Yeah, exactly. 139 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: And you know, insects are very small. We don't usually 140 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: think of in that terms. People swat a fly without 141 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: thinking twice about it, But this is yeah, altogether different. Right. 142 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: You're making tiny contraptions specifically to yoke them into service 143 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: and then kind of torturing them for people's entertainment, and 144 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: it's on such a small scale that you just don't 145 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: really notice that that's what's happening. Yeah, it's still it's 146 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: still in principle the same thing, because just eliminating of 147 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: flea is different from you know, torturing it in a 148 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: very weird way. It's kind of like beer money bear baiting. Yeah, 149 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: it's also like it's like a much more elaborate form 150 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: of that little psychopath kid that pulled the wings off 151 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: of flies for fun exactly. So you know, some people 152 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: think that um, this form of entertainment, these flee circuses, 153 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: that they actually declined, you know, in the twentieth century 154 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: because of concerns over you know, animal cruelty and kind 155 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: of the welfare of these fleas. That's not really the case. 156 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: There are some groups out there who definitely felt that 157 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: this was wrong and still do um, But really what 158 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: happened was the fleas got harder to find. It was 159 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: harder to source them, and it was difficult to train 160 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: them such as it was, and you know, you had 161 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: to keep replacing them and stuff like that. Things would 162 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: go wrong. Sometimes fleas would drop dead mid performance. Um 163 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: and so as technology progressed, you know, some of these 164 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: enterprising professors found an easier way of doing this, and 165 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: that was the John Hammond route, the mechanical route. They 166 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: turned to h chanical illusions. They had magnets and electrical 167 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: contraptions that would kind of um again, trick the audience 168 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: into thinking that these objects were being moved and manipulated 169 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: by fleas, when in reality it was, you know, a 170 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: gear system. Yeah, so this to me is pretty clever. 171 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: First off, it's it's kinder to the fleas involved, and 172 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: even if they're not my type of animal, that doesn't 173 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: mean they shouldn't be alive, right, but they it's kinder. 174 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: But also it seems like it's a very easy con 175 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: to pull, is it not. I mean, you would you 176 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: would have these contraptions, you could make them elaborate, especially 177 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: if they're just um automations or mechanisms of their own, 178 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: and people if there are a certain distance, way would 179 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: just assume a flea is there right, Oh yeah, absolutely, 180 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: once again referring to Jurassic Park. That's uh, That's what 181 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: John Hammond says is the little the little kids would 182 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: see it and be like, oh, I can see the fleas, Mommy, 183 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: do you see the fleas? And uh yeah, I mean 184 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: the audience is willing to believe. I think, so you 185 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: don't really have to torture It turns out you don't 186 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: have to torture four hundred plus bugs every night. Oh 187 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's charming, and it's a thing we 188 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: do all the time. I mean, there's no such thing 189 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: as superheroes. You know, there's like it's all suspension of disbelief. 190 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: So how is this any different. It's it's a show, 191 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: I would argue, it's not necessarily an overt form of 192 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: like deception. It's sort of part of the whole deal. 193 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: Right yeah, No, absolutely, people want to believe. Right. Um. 194 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: And but again, you know, the flea circus did not 195 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: did not go into decline specifically because of these animal concerns. 196 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: It was actually largely because hygiene improved so much. Um, 197 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: By the time you get to the twentieth century, we 198 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: have stuff like vacuum cleaners and you know air filters 199 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: in our houses and um, you know a lot of 200 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: cleaning agents and stuff. So the fleas pretty much just 201 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: packed their bags and hit the road. It was too 202 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: clean for them. Uh. And so human fleas, which again 203 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: were the ones being used in these circus acts because 204 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: they were bigger and better jumpers, they just got scarcer 205 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: and scarcer until the mechanical kind of flea circus that 206 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: we're talking about, the fleeless flee circus, became the norm. Oh, 207 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: we should point out there was there was a kind 208 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: of i would say an increasingly desperate band aid or 209 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: transitional phase uh that that you hipped us to where 210 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: some circuses said, while these fleas are dead, but we'll 211 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: we'll just keep using them, right Yeah. Yeah, that's probably 212 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: when they were getting harder to find, and it was 213 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: like or you know, I don't feel like training another 214 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: crop all over again, putting them in the shallow case, 215 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: let's skip that and uh yeah, so they would just 216 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: use the dead fleas again and again. They would dress 217 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: them up in their little costumes and just glue them 218 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: down to uh, you know, wherever they needed to be. Um. 219 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: And so yeah, that was kind of uh like you said, 220 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: the transitional phase. You would see that in in live 221 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: flee circuses, where really it was you know a lot 222 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: of dead fleas mixed in there. And you would also 223 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 1: see it in the mechanical ones where everything was operating 224 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: on gears and pulleys and that kind of thing. But 225 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: then you had, you know, for the for the kids 226 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: who weren't willing to bring their imaginations to it, I 227 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: guess they were you know, dead ones actually glued to 228 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: these surfaces. Um, so fleas were still involved in the 229 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: mechanical ones, but you know, not in the traditional live sense. 230 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: Oh weird, And and people still enjoyed it. People still 231 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: like the show. There weren't protesters out there saying, you know, 232 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: this is a false flee circus f f C. No, 233 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: of course there were, but they were ignored rightly. So, um, no, 234 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, flee circuses are actually still popular. Um it's 235 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, it ain't what it used to be. But 236 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: depending on where you live, you can actually still find 237 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: a modern day flee circus of both varieties mechanical ones 238 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: but also live ones too. Um. For example, there's one 239 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: of the most famous and long running ones is at 240 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: this October Fest celebration in Munich that still goes on 241 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: every year. Um, and there's a bunch in the US too. 242 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: So is the Munich one real or mechanical? It's real? 243 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: Oh wow? So are they still hot gluing a little 244 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: flea boys down to two platforms and heating them up 245 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: and making them flail? Most likely that's weird because Germany 246 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: is a little more progressive in the field of animal 247 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: rights in comparison to a lot of other places. Right, 248 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: I think it was was it Germany where there were 249 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: legal cases or there were cases going to court arguing 250 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: that some uh, non human animals be granted legal personhood Like, 251 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: uh yeah, So it seems like you believe you're correct, sir. 252 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: It seems like that would be a weird country to 253 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: to continue it. But then again, maybe they're just they're 254 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: just saying, well, fleas are fleas or fleas fleas or 255 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: insects to us? Uh it is. It is fascinating though, 256 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: that they're still they're still using the living fleas. I 257 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: guess they wouldn't be legit. Um. There's one detail you 258 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: had gave that really stood out to me, and I 259 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: don't know if it's stopped for you as well know 260 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: which is that? So a great proportion of flee trainers 261 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: historically had backgrounds in you know, theatrical work or in 262 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: stage performance. So is this just maybe like a thing 263 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: where a lot of magicians, especially ones with long careers, 264 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: go on to specialize in something right like up close magic, 265 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: card magic, grand copperfield escalusions or so on. Is a 266 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: flee circus sort of a more specified discipline within the 267 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: world of stage magic. Would you say it's I? I 268 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: think that's right. Um, Like you said, a lot of 269 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: stage magicians kind of pivoted into being a flee circus professor. Uh. 270 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: And again, like we've been talking about, there's a pretty 271 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: long history of miniatures, UM and showmanship, you know, the 272 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: the entertainment business kind of going hand in hand like UM. 273 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: One thing I read that I always thought was interesting 274 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: was Walt Disney was a huge fan of miniatures. And 275 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: again it was from UM touring Europe and finding, you know, 276 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: the remnants from these miniature houses that we talked about 277 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: earlier and just kind of falling in love with the 278 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: detail and the craftsmanship of it. And so before he 279 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: hit on the idea of doing Disneyland, he had the 280 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: idea for something called Disneylandia, which was going to be UM, 281 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: detailed models, little miniatures of the wild West and um, 282 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, different eras in history. He was going to 283 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: pack these things onto train car and drive it around 284 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: the country and have people come and see Disneylandia. UM. 285 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: And that's kind of the idea at the heart of it. UM, 286 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: it's just building these little worlds. We'll check this out. 287 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: You may already know this, UM. But at the Disney 288 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: Family Museum in San Francisco, which is not run by 289 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: the Disney Corporation, it's run by the Dwalt Disney Family Trust. Uh, 290 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: they have all of these like scale models of tomorrow 291 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: Land and of all of the things that became Disneyland, UM. 292 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: And they're beautiful and intricate and exactly like what you're describing. 293 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: So obviously he took that idea and ran with it, 294 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: and then you know, built like the real thing. But 295 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: that was my favorite part of the whole I mean, 296 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: it's it's it's an amazing experience. UM. You can also 297 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: see the kinds of things they show at this museum 298 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: are the kinds of things that would be off limits 299 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: for the Disney Company. Like they have a whole um 300 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: gallery of a lot of those war propaganda Disney cartoons 301 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: and like posters and stuff like in the Furor's face, 302 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: you know, the Donald duck one um, which you know, 303 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: they don't really only even get those on Disney. They 304 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: don't get much not much play these days. But yeah, no, 305 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: I've been to that museum as well, and they they 306 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: do have of um, a lot of his personal collection 307 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: of miniatures there, you know, underglass you can see he's 308 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: got like a whole pantry of all these tiny, tiny 309 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: canned goods and little boxes and stuff and lots of 310 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: you know, tiny spoons. So he fell in love with it. 311 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: There's something about it that just appeals to showman. Um. 312 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: Just like again John Hammond and Jurassic Park. Um, it's, uh, 313 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: there's something about it. So I actually I did have 314 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: a thesis actually, which is that Jurassic Park is the 315 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: history of Flee circuses in reverse. Oh nice, okay, okay, okay, 316 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: okay expound Yeah, yeah, so again original flee circus owners. 317 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: They became, you know, over time, very well versed in 318 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: the difficulties of trying to control a living system. You know, 319 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: they had trouble sourcing the fleas they had trouble training them, 320 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: the performers had short lifespans, they had to be replaced, etcetera. 321 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: So eventually get we were talking about. When the technology allowed, 322 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: they moved to a mechanical system, flee less circuses that 323 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: relied on gears, and they were much more reliable, much 324 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: less messy, and much easier to control. But John Hammond, 325 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: he got into the flea business during that second era, 326 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: the mechanical run of flee circuses, so he was always 327 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: pining for the real thing to go back to that time. 328 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: He didn't have the living system, which he saw as 329 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: a step up because it was more real, Right, I 330 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: just wanted to make something really exactly, something they could 331 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: see and touch and and and then there's there's some 332 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: Uh I'm trying to figure out who are gold bloom 333 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: is in here? Who's the guy who's like fleas? Uh? 334 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: Find a way they do? They find a way? It's 335 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: by jumping. Yeah, I think that's right. So I mean, 336 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, instead of going back to that old kind 337 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: of flea circus and and you know, learning his lesson 338 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: that way, he opted for the dinosaur circus instead, and 339 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, chaos and sued. But I think that's a 340 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: lesson that we see kind of in the real world 341 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: all the time of that trying to control you know, 342 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: a living system as if it were a mechanical one, 343 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: and it breaks down all the time, like with um 344 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: manmade dams and levies or those programs where they try 345 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: to you know, drive out all the carnivores and eliminate them, 346 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: and right exactly, it doesn't work. There's a there's a 347 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: great point there, because what we're seeing is that the 348 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: further technology evolves, the more closely it mimics pre existing 349 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: natural processes or natural mechanisms, and then eventually, you know, 350 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: the idea of want to get very sci fi about it, 351 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: is that the most highly evolved forms of technology quote 352 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: unquote are themselves um indistinguishable from what appears to be 353 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: the natural world, which is which is a neat thing 354 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: to think about. And thank you for classing up the 355 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: episode with this, with this part game. But I do 356 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: want to say there's there is one piece of history 357 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: I found so fascinating and I feel like we'd be 358 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: remiss if we didn't hit it. Uh, The idea of 359 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: acknowledging fleas in an entertaining way and not just in 360 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: like a gloom and doom. These guys spread the play 361 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: kind of way. You found this fantastic, uh, this fantastic 362 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: little tidbit about Mesoamerica. Could you tell us just a 363 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: little bit about that, Yeah, for sure. So one example 364 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: that cropped up in the early nineteenth century, so this 365 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: was around the same time that flea circuses were kind 366 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: of really hitting their stride in Europe, is this form 367 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: of Mexican folk art called pulgas vestidas, which literally means 368 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: dressed fleas. And this was exactly what it sounds like. 369 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: People would take dead fleas and dress them up in 370 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: little outfits, and they would accessorize them too. They put 371 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: on you know, shoes and hats and belts like whatever 372 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: you can think of, and then they would mount the 373 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: fleas and pose them to make these little scenes inside 374 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: of these tiny shadow boxes. They were like the size 375 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: of a dime. And you know, sometimes you see an 376 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: entire mariachi band crammed into one of these things, like 377 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: playing their tiny little instruments, or maybe a pair of 378 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: flea dress like a bride and groom at the altar. 379 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: That was a really popular one. So all kinds of stuff. 380 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: This is kind of like some serial killer stuff right here, 381 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: I'm picturing, yeah, a little I don't know. It's also 382 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 1: simultaneously adorable and kind of goes back into that like 383 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: whole like obsession with miniaturization that we were talking about. 384 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: It feels like that's the impulse here, is like, oh, 385 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: let's dress that these cute, little, tiny dead things. Um. 386 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: But it's interesting because I'm looking at it now and 387 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: it seems like nobody's quite sure where this started. I mean, 388 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: I think again my conjecture might be that it was 389 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: just like the nature of like, look look at these 390 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: little things, let's make them cute. But there is a 391 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: theory that it began in Mexican convents. Um. I guess possibly. 392 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: You know, like a lot of things start with board 393 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: nuns when they go a little stir crazy, and that's 394 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: that's where Q and on started. Everybody knows that, um 395 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: and you know, started let's dress up the fleas. Uh. 396 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: So then eventually villagers you know, got hip to the idea, 397 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: and when they realized that the shadow Box has actually 398 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: made great souvenirs, uh, they started selling them to tourists. 399 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: So I guess it seems like they were a massive 400 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: hit too, because there are a ton of examples out there, right, 401 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, these these things were everywhere. Everybody knew about them. 402 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: Actually found this great quote from the Mexican writer Octavio Pause. 403 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: Uh in the nineteen twenties. He weighed in on the 404 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: art of dressing fleas. That's how big it was. He 405 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: called it, quote a difficult art, exquisite and useless. Pause, 406 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: that's pause classiclassics, always always always quick with the hot take. 407 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: But but right, so it's it's uh, not only is 408 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: it exquisite and useless, but also quite pricey. Right, yeah, 409 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. I checked while I was, you know, 410 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: looking into this and the most recent dressed fleas to 411 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: sell on eBay. This was an auction just about a 412 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: month ago. It was a bride and groom set and 413 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: it's sold for nine hundred dollars US plus u us US. 414 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: This was auction, was in Arizona and uh, you know, 415 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: plus shipping to Nope Bridge too far. I'm sorry, guys, 416 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: but but are these like historical artifacts? Are these modern 417 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: re enactments of these older you know? He was claiming 418 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: that this is uh, this was an original. I guess 419 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: it's kind of a lost art now. So most of 420 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: them are still doing this. You know, this is this 421 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: is um, as you said earlier, both fascinating and pretty creepy. 422 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: I got some Tim Burton vibes off this, but I 423 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: gotta be honest, I didn't know there were two different examples. 424 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: I was thinking of a different kind of meso American 425 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: flee art gave you found a sculpted flee that predates 426 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: the concept of flee circuses entirely like I think it's 427 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: um it was created by Aztec civilization. Could you tell 428 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: us the story about that one? Yeah, absolutely, sorry, sorry 429 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: about that. You know, meso America was flushed with flee art, 430 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: so it's hard to contract sometimes. But uh, yeah, that's right. 431 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: The Aztecs produced this massive collection of intricate sculptures back 432 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: in the fifteen hundreds. A lot of them portray like 433 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: gods and goddesses, but there's some sacred objects to like 434 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: these containers that were used in ceremonies and musical instruments. 435 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: Strangely enough, like plants and vegetables are also represented in 436 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: this collection. There's this, uh, there's some sculptures of grains 437 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: of wheat, and there's also this footlong green stone pumpkin. 438 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: That kind of had my eye on. But uh, there's 439 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: also this whole section dedicated to animals, like a sculpture beast, 440 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: sheerry with snakes, dogs, jaguars, turkeys, all kinds of stuff, 441 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: pretty much any animal they were coming into contact with. 442 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: And that includes this enormous stone fleet. And what's most 443 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: impressive about it to me is the artist sculpted it 444 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: to be hundreds of times the size of a real fleet. 445 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: It's like a foot tall, so you get all these 446 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: details and features that would be really hard to see, 447 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, with the naked eye. Like I don't really 448 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: know how he pulled it off without a magnifying glass 449 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: or microscope or anything like that. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, 450 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: and this would have predated like the you know, the lens, right, 451 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: I mean, they wouldn't have had anything like that, right 452 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: at least on this part of the world. I would think, Yeah, 453 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: it's fascinating because like back in part one, UM when 454 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: we were kind of discussing like the fleas and their 455 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: little parts and how they were posed with things, and 456 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: like how does a fleet hold a tiny Mariotti guitar? 457 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: And it's a little clause I looked up some like 458 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: imagery of like electron microscopes blowing up fleas and they 459 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: are just the most bizarro alien looking little guys. I mean, 460 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: they have these weird little mandibles. And it's very clear 461 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: that like, uh, for a lot of science fiction, you know, 462 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: practical effects and you know, um imagery and film. Uh, clearly, 463 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: insects are are a huge influence, and fleas in particular, 464 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: there's something very you know, alien about you know, like 465 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: they're exactly exactly they can't do the things that we 466 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: would consider routine routine activities like walking right right, um, 467 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: jumping and drinking blood. That's it? Yeah, hm, Now what 468 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: else is there? Man? What else do you need? That's 469 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: a good point. So what do you think it was 470 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: that that that made these sculptors so particularly fascinated with 471 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: these things that they could barely see? I mean even 472 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: I mean I I can't imagine, don't have perfect eyes side, 473 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: but I have pretty good eyes sight. But even like 474 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: squinting and looking up close to one of these, it 475 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't look nearly like it would through the electron microscope. 476 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: And I was talking about, what's what where, where's the 477 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: fascination come from? Yeah? Yeah, it's kind of a strange pull. 478 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: But you know, the thing is, none of the subjects 479 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: for these sculptures were chosen at random. Like every one 480 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: of them says something about the concepts of Aztec religion, 481 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: and the key belief of their society was that, you know, 482 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: there were these certain gods, these creator gods, who had 483 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: sacrificed themselves in order to create humans in the world 484 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: and you know, everything in it, and so in order 485 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: to sustain those gifts, to kind of keep the universe going, 486 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: the Aztecs believed that their god's sacrifice had to be 487 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, renewed over and over again with human blood. So, yeah, 488 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: the result of this is, you know, a steady stream 489 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: of ritual human sacrifice, which you know a lot of 490 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: these sculptures do focus on that in gory detail, Like 491 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: some of those vessels I mentioned earlier, those are like 492 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: blood and organ collection tools for these sacrifices. And you know, 493 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: that could also be why the fleet is represented here, 494 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: you know, in such detail as an animal that feeds 495 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: on blood in order to sustain itself. It's you know, 496 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: it's possible the Aztecs like looked at this fleet and 497 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: saw it a kind of little micro scale embodiment of 498 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: you know, the system they saw in place that like 499 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: blood renewal thing something holy. Exactly. Yeah, at the very 500 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: least sacred, like like like the way the you know, 501 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: Indians treat cows. And then exactly, and then we came 502 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: a lot a lot less reverent, making them dance and 503 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: uh yeah, attaching them to a little toy chariots and stuff. 504 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: I don't something don't think the Aztecs would have been 505 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: fans of fleet circuses. Yeah, like, you know, electrifying them 506 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: so they like spaz out and pretend to play instrument. 507 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: I wasn't electrifying, It was just heating them up until 508 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: they started literally cooking place and that kind of even 509 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: still probably wouldn't have one of any points. Yeah, we're 510 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: low on fleet points at least with the where the 511 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: Aztecs are concerned. Yeah, I think I think you guys 512 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: are right. Something tells me, um, the people of that 513 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: time would not have maybe been the hugest fans of 514 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: flee circuses, but Gabe Weird, huge fans of hanging out 515 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: with you. Thank you so much for taking us on 516 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: this journey, not just for one part, but for two parts. 517 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: On the Weird Weird history of the rise and fall 518 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: of Flee Circuses. Yeah, likewise, guys, I've had a blast. 519 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. I hope to come back soon. 520 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: But you know, maybe we could just leave the blood 521 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: contract thing out next time. We're all friends. Sorry, deal breaker, Sorry, 522 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: I tried, No, Nolan, I had a meeting about this. 523 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: We we voted, mandatory majority rules gave but just the same. 524 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us for this two 525 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: partner and and hipping us to the magical uh and 526 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: and and somewhat disturbing world of Flee circuses. And honestly 527 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: you took us even further than even that with the 528 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: whole meso American angles. So huge thanks to you, my 529 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: friend research, your extraordinaire Gabe Lucy. Yeah, and also huge 530 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: thanks to Christopher haciotis here in spirit. Big big thanks 531 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: of course so one' only super producer Casey Pegram. Big 532 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: thanks as well to Alex Williams, who composed this slap 533 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: in Bob and uh, you know, I guess we have 534 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: to say it. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland's you said, 535 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: you said his name. It's time, gentleman. You did this 536 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: Ben No, no, you both did this. Gentleman. For now, 537 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: you said my name first and then Ben said my 538 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: name second. We all know that if I hear my 539 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: name the three times I appeared, But since your action 540 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: so many other people's names, I just assumed mine was 541 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: in there too, and so here, Wow, I feel like 542 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: your accents changed. It's gotten a little more absurd. Well, 543 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's been a while, so I just thought 544 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: i'd really turn it up to eleven. Okay, guys, what's happening? Yeah, 545 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: gave sorry, we should have mentioned this at the top. Um. 546 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: There is a part of the show that we uh, 547 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: we were kind of hoping you wouldn't have to see, 548 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: but every so often, due to another contract signed in blood, uh, 549 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: we are bombed by our own nemesis, h Jonathan Strickland, 550 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: a k a. The Quister, who will not let the 551 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: episode end unless we participate in a battle of wits. Yes, yes, 552 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: it's very sad because one half of this equation is unarmed. 553 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: Gave you all Now welcome to the most cringe worthy 554 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: segment in all of podcasting. Yes, they shall present to 555 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: all of you three scenarios, two of which all reel 556 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: and one I made up seas and it is your 557 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: job to figure it out which of the three is 558 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: the fake. As always, after I tell you all three scenarios, 559 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: you will have three minutes to make your decision, and 560 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: you are allowed to ask me questions, but you must 561 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: first proceed that with phrase of my arbitrary choosing. Now 562 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: I understand you were speaking of flea circuses. Now we're 563 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: talking about flee circus. Yes, flea circuses. Well, I have 564 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: chosen a very very similar topic, political assassinations. And so 565 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: before any question you must proceed it with a quotation 566 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: from Stephen Sondheim's musical Assassins. And in case you don't 567 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: know any everybody's got the right to be happy works 568 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: just fine. So if you have a question, you have 569 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: to start with something from Assassins. Here are your three scenarios. 570 00:33:54,040 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: Scenario number one. Paul, the third Duke of Strawberry, also 571 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: known as Paul the Merciless, had a problem. He met 572 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: an ill fated end at the hands of an assassin 573 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: in fourteen twenty five. He had made many enemies, having 574 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: previously served as bishop in Bavaria, and he ruled with 575 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: an iron fist. He even warred against his own family 576 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: in order to secure his position as duke on a 577 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: night in October fourteen twenty five, and unidentified assassin, likely 578 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: sent by his own sister, didn't just stab Paul to death. 579 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: According to reports, Paul's body was practically drained of all 580 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: blood and left hanging over the rail of his bed 581 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: chamber's balcony, wearing only his chain of office. His passing 582 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: was unmourned. Scenario two. Swiss politician org Yanech had a problem. 583 00:34:54,040 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: He was many things. Protestant pastor, Roman Catholic, secret society leader, soldier, 584 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: torture supervisor, assistant, axe murderer, duelist, and of course prominent politician. 585 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: He met his end in sixteen thirty nine at the 586 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: hands of a bear, or rather the pause of a man, 587 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: or rather the hands of a man dressed like a bear, 588 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: who assassinated Georgie with an axe. As it said, whether 589 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: Janech was axed a question or some other weapon was used. 590 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: He was really most sincerely dead after the whole thing. 591 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: Scenario A three. Yugoslavian statesman Yosip Broz Tito had a problem, 592 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: and that problem was Joseph Stalin. Stalin's head of state 593 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: security planned out an ambitious assassination on Tito The plan 594 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: was to employ a Soviet agent to pose as a 595 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: diplomat from Costa Rica. The agent would smuggle in lethal 596 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: bacteria into the presence of Tito, infecting him and everyone 597 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: else in the area. But before plan could be set 598 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: in motion, Stalin himself shuffled off this mortal coil in 599 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. Tito would die in nineteen eighty, just 600 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: a few days shy of his eighty eight birthday. Start 601 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: the clock, Okay, I am running to that grandfather clock. 602 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 1: You mean just one second? You mean that really big 603 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: watch the corner. WoT you push and you push, you 604 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: just insist. Um. I'm gonna be honest, you guys. The 605 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: best thing I can say is I have a thirty 606 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: percent chance of randomly guessing the correct thing here. Same. Yeah. 607 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: The thing about Jonathan is the quister. His quizness is 608 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: that he uh, he puts a lot of effort into 609 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: these uh he really makes them pretty tricky to to 610 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: just get it out right. Gosh, what was the name Assassin? 611 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: The musical? That was pathetic? No, you could what was 612 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: the guy's name the second name? Oh, George Schmarman. It 613 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: sounds like it sounds like a made up it's a 614 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: job because I love a good oomb loud. Yeah, he 615 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: loves a good oomb loud. I feel like that's a 616 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: name that came from the depths of the hellish ma 617 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: that is the quister's mind. Yeah, it's just it's it's 618 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: a good argument with the name that does sound a 619 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: little too fun, written by perhaps someone with a deep 620 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: love of absurd names. But then there's that guy who 621 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: was the axe murderer, Like, what was that all about? 622 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: He was in a bear suit, but he used an axe. 623 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: That's the same guy. Oh right, Yeah, that's still the 624 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: second one. You know, I was paying the most attention 625 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: to the first one, so I think that one was it. Yeah, yeah, 626 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: I think the real one. That was the real one. Yeah, 627 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: the real one. I I felt pretty pretty real about 628 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: the first one. John that's had to point this out. 629 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: Nobody has heard of Assassin the musical by Stephen hows 630 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: on time if it's not into view with Patrick Harris 631 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: knows all about it. Thank you very much. Uh why 632 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: did you do it? Johnny? Very well done? Mr Bolin. 633 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: What is your question? What is the third scenario? What's 634 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: going on? The get longer longer? I am well, you 635 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: keep pointing out that if I spend too much time 636 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: on one, that's clearly the one that I made up. 637 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: So I made all of them long that's what you get, 638 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: Mr Bolin. You pointed out your your way of figuring 639 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: out my tricks. Uh, that was about about Joseph bros Tito, 640 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: who was Joseph Stalin attempted to assassinate Tito multiple times, actually, 641 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: but one of the plans was to smuggle in a 642 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: form of lethal bacteria to in affect him. The the 643 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: Soviet agent in charge of doing this was not told 644 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: that that was what he would be doing, only that 645 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 1: he would be bringing in something perhaps poisonous into Tito's presence. 646 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: The way you're talking about that sounds like the way 647 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: someone talks about something they've researched. So I think that 648 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: one's probably real. Although the name of what is it, 649 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: Yosef Bros Yosip Broz Tito, he was Yugoslavia. Do you 650 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: think people called him bros? If Finally, yeah, I mean 651 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: you know how many minutes I left on that three 652 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: minutes out of time. You've got a great since a time. 653 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: I guess we gotta lock in one. I'm gonna go 654 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: with games gut. Yeah, I'm gonna say number three feels 655 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: true that yeah, oh sorry sorry, games Gut was one 656 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: three the description yes with you. Sorry. He had a 657 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: lot of details for that one. Which of the three 658 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: are you saying is the one I made up? Because 659 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 1: right now you're saying one is real? Three he is really. 660 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: I don't know which one you're saying. I mean two 661 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: is fake? Two is fake fake? Wait wait, wait two 662 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 1: of them are real? No, two are real. One's fake? 663 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: Which was the bake on the bear one? All right, well, Gabe, 664 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: the daughters go to you. Uh you really you really 665 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: want to be responsible for besmirching our sterling record. I 666 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: think we're ahead right now, we're ahead by one. This 667 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,399 Speaker 1: is gonna eating us out if we lose, alright, you'll 668 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: be dead to us. Well, Gabe, Gabe, you'll welcome on 669 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: the show. Anytime that was that was a real thing 670 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: that happened, was your again? He really was a Swiss politician. 671 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,760 Speaker 1: He really was murdered. The reason the man was dressed 672 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: as a bear was he was murdered on conival of 673 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: Old Times. And yes it's said that it was an 674 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: he was murdered by an ax, although that is that 675 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: part is perhaps the least well documented. But he was 676 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: certainly killed by someone dressed as a air So this 677 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: one's untrue. Also, that one is absolutely true. The one 678 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: that is untrue is Pulled, the third Duke of Straubing. 679 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: There never was such a person. Is there a place 680 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: called Strouby? Yes, there is, it's next to okay, but 681 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: it's but there was no There was no pull the 682 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: third who was who was stabbed to death and left 683 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: drained of blood and hanging over his balcony railing, wearing 684 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: nothing but his chain of office that was completely made up. 685 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: Seas Helloll, we're well done. I'm I'm absolutely exhausted on 686 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: my face. Yeah, yeah, it's tag on all of our faces. 687 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: We you know, we we we were in this together. 688 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: But you should do an episode about your niche seriously, 689 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: because this fellow was you read his biography and his 690 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: list of accomplishments. It is crazy. Got to have yeah, 691 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: we've got to have you on for that one man. 692 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: Uh in maybe your alter ego and I know we've 693 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: built a really weird meathos here because we refer to 694 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: you by your government name and your alter ego. Ah, well, 695 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: if you want to see I agree, I will do it, 696 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: but only if the quizter could be on at the 697 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: end of that episode. Why we'll do it, Jacqueline Hide, 698 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Hyde vibe. Well, we are tied, folks, so we're 699 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: going into our next bout with the quister with everything 700 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: on the line. As you know, this is a very 701 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: high stakes pursuit we have here. Uh, Jonathan, well played, 702 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. Um, we should have known. 703 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: Paul is a weird Paul is a weird name, right 704 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:45,720 Speaker 1: for a month like a I do have no no, 705 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: there's no no, no, no, there's no paulse except for 706 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: super producer Paul deck Ends mission control of of something. 707 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: I want you to know, Fami, He's the only Paul 708 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: that matters. I will say, Uh, Strickland that when you 709 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: said Duke of Straub, I thought you were going to 710 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: say Duke of Strawberry, which sounds a lot more appealing 711 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: than that story. Well, we've all got a lot to 712 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: learn from history, I think is our takeaway here. Uh, 713 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: if you would like to share some stories about your 714 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: own experiences with weird uh God, where do we go guys? 715 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: Weird flea stories, flee facts God, any of that you 716 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: can find us on the internets of plenty. We like 717 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 1: to recommend our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, but you can 718 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: also find us as individuals online. That is correct. You 719 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram where I am at how 720 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,240 Speaker 1: now Noel Brown, Ben, how about you my friend? Yes, folks, 721 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: you can find me at Ben Boland bow l I 722 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: n on Instagram. You can also find me on Twitter 723 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: at Ben Bowland. H s W joined the Adventures. I'm 724 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: getting into some weird stuff lately. No spoilers, Uh, Gabe, 725 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 1: what about you? Well, if people were so inclined, they 726 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: could go to a number of different Transformers message boards 727 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: and track me down under the pseudonym Magic Dishwasher. And 728 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: that is all I am comfortable revealing. So what you're 729 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: saying is you're a giant nerd? Correct? And the way 730 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: we go, Uh, you know it's fair? Fair is fair? 731 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,839 Speaker 1: I hope we don't regret this. But Jonathan, where can 732 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: people find you? If they are so inclined? On a 733 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: chilly November more, you may find me looking down that 734 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: alley you never looked directly at. I'm there, I'm waiting. 735 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: He's also got a show called tex Stuff. You can 736 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,439 Speaker 1: find him on Twitter. Yes, you can subscribe to text 737 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: stuff on all your favorite pub catching apps, or you 738 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: could just go down that alley. Don't do I've got 739 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: change my answer to it to what he said. No, 740 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: it's too late, too late, but I locked it. Yeah, 741 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 1: blood Oath, See you next time, Folix. Yeah. For more 742 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 743 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows