WEBVTT - Ep 76: Kate Tempest

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<v Speaker 1>He couldn't say, you just go out the pace of

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<v Speaker 1>the lyric. He just had to say, like it was psycryptic.

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<v Speaker 1>Hold your own was the first one. When he heard that.

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<v Speaker 1>He came in and he listened just to saying that

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<v Speaker 1>I had in my nightbook and downplaying the boats, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was like, that's it. So that was the first

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<v Speaker 1>one where we were like, okay, he wants me to

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<v Speaker 1>just do poetry. We were like, what's the biggest rap

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<v Speaker 1>producer of all time? He's telling me to stop rapping?

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<v Speaker 2>Even me, Everyone, and welcome to episode seventy six of

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast Greg Here. This is the second episode of

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<v Speaker 2>a brand new run of Midnight Chats, ten new conversations

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<v Speaker 2>coming in total, arriving every Thursday at midnight, and we've

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<v Speaker 2>given everything a lick of paint, a small freshen up,

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<v Speaker 2>so we hope you like it. We kicked off this

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<v Speaker 2>new series of episodes last week with Karen O from

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<v Speaker 2>the AA Years, and tonight's guest is equally as incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Kate Tempest. It's good timing as I saw Kate

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<v Speaker 2>perform at a festival just last week and still reeling

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<v Speaker 2>from that. She plays dates this autumn, so do go

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<v Speaker 2>along if you can, as lots of you will know,

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<v Speaker 2>it is an experience that goes way beyond your average gig.

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<v Speaker 2>We recorded this episode a while ago in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the summer June time, just before the Glastonbury Festival,

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<v Speaker 2>which Kate played, around the time that her latest album,

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<v Speaker 2>The Book of Traps and Lessons came out. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>she's not just a musician, but an award winning writer, novelist, poet, producer, playwright.

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<v Speaker 2>We get into all of that, and from our point

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<v Speaker 2>of view, it's not a stretch to describe Kate as

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<v Speaker 2>one of the most important and relevant British artists out

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<v Speaker 2>there right now. So basically it's a pleasure to have

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<v Speaker 2>her on as this evening's guest. And don't forget you

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<v Speaker 2>can support this podcast by subscribing to Loud and Quiet magazine.

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<v Speaker 2>All the information is at Loud and Quiet dot com

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<v Speaker 2>forward slash subscribe, sign up and we'll post you on

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<v Speaker 2>next nine issues for as little as three pounds per month.

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<v Speaker 2>I try and listen to as an any podcasts as

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<v Speaker 2>I can, and I've had a number of favorites recently,

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<v Speaker 2>and You've been on a couple of episodes that I've

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<v Speaker 2>really loved one, which was from a long time ago,

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<v Speaker 2>I think with James O'Brien that you did right, probably

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of years ago now, I think, And in

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<v Speaker 2>a recent one with DJ Sentex Who We Be and

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<v Speaker 2>his podcast, it was a really really good conversation. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you enjoy doing podcasts? And also, like just generally you

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<v Speaker 2>somebody that listens to podcasts much, do you check them out?

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<v Speaker 1>I actually don't listen to that many of them. When

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<v Speaker 1>I'm recommended good ones from people that I checked this out,

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<v Speaker 1>then I've listened to them and I've really loved them.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't like investigated them on my own terms that much,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're kind of the perfect thing when you're especially

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<v Speaker 1>if you've got like long traveling hours and things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>it feels a bit more nourishing.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know why, but it does feel like a more.

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<v Speaker 1>Nourishing way of listening to stuff when you're passing time,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't It feels like it's kind of better for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like eating your greens is healthy like that.

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<v Speaker 1>But in terms of like the whether I enjoyed them,

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely much prefer sitting down and having a chat

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<v Speaker 1>and it's like a bit more relaxed and the chat's

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<v Speaker 1>free to go, you know, wherever it ends up going

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<v Speaker 1>than doing like an interview like print into print journalism,

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<v Speaker 1>I find like I have found it a bit uncomfortable

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<v Speaker 1>in the past. We're just sitting on a sofa a

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<v Speaker 1>photograph of Justin Bieber.

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<v Speaker 3>I can see you up there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gaty to face on the cover of al and

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<v Speaker 2>Quiet Everything. Can I give you one tip if you

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<v Speaker 2>listened to George the Poets podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>I haven't actually know so.

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<v Speaker 2>It won a lot of awards at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>last year. It's just fantastic and it goes to that

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<v Speaker 2>point you just said about how they feel quite nourishing

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<v Speaker 2>and quite I think they're really They can be really

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<v Speaker 2>intimate when they're done very well, and really innovative because

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<v Speaker 2>they use sound in clever ways. And George's podcast is

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<v Speaker 2>just incredible. Yeah, you feel educated by it as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But he is a fantastic educator, isn't he. He's so

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<v Speaker 1>committed to his knowledge and to getting his mind around things,

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<v Speaker 1>and like getting that articulated. I think I could imagine

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<v Speaker 1>that being amazing, actually cool.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely chell it out You've.

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<v Speaker 2>Just released your new album, The Book of Traps and Lessons.

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<v Speaker 2>Just before the album came out, you marked it by

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<v Speaker 2>playing a show in Catford, which is kind of your

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<v Speaker 2>it's local, right, played a local theater to debut the

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<v Speaker 2>new album and play all of it. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>How was that experience playing basically somewhere so close to home?

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<v Speaker 2>Was that a nice way to launch this new chapter

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<v Speaker 2>if you like?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was beautiful. It was a really beautiful experience.

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<v Speaker 1>The theater itself is like a couple of hundred years old.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm literally just made it up. That's probably wrong. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't Maybe it's not that old, but it's one of

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<v Speaker 1>those kind of beautiful I think they built it when

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<v Speaker 1>Pianos Organs used to accompany pictures cinema, you know, And

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was built as a kind of picture house.

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<v Speaker 1>And usually what's on there is like panta, so there's

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes comedy on there. And yeah, it's in my neck

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<v Speaker 1>of the woods. It's like just really close to where

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up and where I live, and I've always

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<v Speaker 1>dreamed of playing there again. It was just such a

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<v Speaker 1>cool thing to do. This was the first time since

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<v Speaker 1>it's come out that we played it all the way through,

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<v Speaker 1>but the way that we recorded the album was like

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<v Speaker 1>there's one live take kind of thing. So I have

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<v Speaker 1>performed it in full like loads of times, but that

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<v Speaker 1>was trying to get the right take for the album.

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<v Speaker 3>If you see what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 1>I felt like a really grounded and profound way of

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<v Speaker 1>launching because it's like you say, it's homewards and it

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<v Speaker 1>made me feel just so full of love really, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's such a positive way of walking out onto stage,

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<v Speaker 1>just all this love in me for where I'm from

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<v Speaker 1>and who's there and.

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<v Speaker 2>Lots of friends and family and stuff supporting you.

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<v Speaker 1>That night, the pub across the road put a banner

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<v Speaker 1>out of their window saying we love you, Kate Pub

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<v Speaker 1>across the This is why it's deep, because it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're from there, it's so powerful that to feel

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<v Speaker 1>that coming at you from your home.

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<v Speaker 2>The local pride, like that's beautiful, mane.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like it made me cry that I couldn't believe.

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<v Speaker 1>I could not believe that. I just thought, wow, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I just felt really overwhelmed and felt really really happy

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to do something that made people go

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<v Speaker 1>like yeah, cool.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>And the theater said that they've had loads of contact

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<v Speaker 1>from people that you know, I didn't know anything about

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<v Speaker 1>them being there, and lots of interest from people and

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<v Speaker 1>all their kind of social media followings have gone up,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're dead happy with that, and like they were

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<v Speaker 1>being really nice and saying thanks for doing this here

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<v Speaker 1>bonkers amazing at night.

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<v Speaker 2>And talk a bit about the recording of the album shortly,

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<v Speaker 2>but in terms of the writing of it, just tell

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<v Speaker 2>me a little bit about that because you worked with

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<v Speaker 2>Dan Kerry again, he's done the music for it, and

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<v Speaker 2>you worked on it in Stretton, which is a place

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<v Speaker 2>where you've worked on your material for a number of

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<v Speaker 2>years as I understand, But what eventually has ended up

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<v Speaker 2>on this album they've been pieces of work that you've

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<v Speaker 2>been putting together for a number of years. Or did

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<v Speaker 2>you sit down and kind of attempt to try and

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<v Speaker 2>write it in one go with sessions with Dan or

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<v Speaker 2>how did it come about that way?

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<v Speaker 1>The writing is so the writing of the album actually

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<v Speaker 1>was motored by the process really that Rick was helping

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<v Speaker 1>us to find and discover this whole album unlike anything

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<v Speaker 1>we've ever done before. Because what happened was Rick Rubin

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<v Speaker 1>saw me on a TV show about five years ago

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty thirteen, or maybe it was early twenty fourteen,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was performing an extract on my poetry on

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<v Speaker 1>this show and he'd seen it and he gave me

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<v Speaker 1>a call and.

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<v Speaker 2>Said like, hi, hey, hey, Rick, and no number.

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<v Speaker 1>And he had been really moved by the performance, and

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<v Speaker 1>he wanted to make a record because what he saw

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<v Speaker 1>was a poet. He didn't know that I was also

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<v Speaker 1>a rapper that I hadn't you know, musical ambitions or

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<v Speaker 1>anything like that. He didn't know about me. He just

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<v Speaker 1>had seen this poet and he thought, well, I'd love

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<v Speaker 1>to work out how this could be with music, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>make an album. He saw something and the intention there

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<v Speaker 1>that he wanted to pursue. At the time, I was

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<v Speaker 1>extremely busy. I was about to put out everybody down.

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<v Speaker 1>I was touring Brendny Ancients, I was doing rewrites and

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<v Speaker 1>Wasted and Hopes he devoted, was about to start touring

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<v Speaker 1>just two plays that I'd written. I was also working

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<v Speaker 1>on my novel, which was really hard, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>working on my.

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<v Speaker 3>Poetry collection Hold your Own. There was like loads of

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<v Speaker 3>stuff was going on.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was just extremely patient and we just kept

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<v Speaker 1>communicating slowly. Right, All this to say is such a

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<v Speaker 1>long way of saying it. All this to say that

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<v Speaker 1>the first week we actually managed to go there and

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<v Speaker 1>do some writing at Rick's place. Dan and I, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a year probably went past, but we'd been talking. We've

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<v Speaker 1>been talking, and this process that he was interested in

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<v Speaker 1>had we'd begun to talk about what it was. But

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<v Speaker 1>basically he'd said like loads of cryptic stuff that we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't understand because he couldn't tell us what he wanted.

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<v Speaker 1>He could just tell us when it wasn't quite right.

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<v Speaker 1>So we said we made him demos in stretum, like

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<v Speaker 1>you say, we sent him to him, and he was like,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not quite right, it's not this. And then he

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<v Speaker 1>was like, look, I don't want any drums. We were like, what,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want any drums? And then so we made

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<v Speaker 1>like about ten like folk songs with a guitar, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like like really bizarre. That shows you how willing we

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<v Speaker 1>were to like just follow his guidance and just do

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<v Speaker 1>what do what we could, like throw ourselves out there.

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<v Speaker 3>When we could.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, we went out to Malibu to his studio in

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<v Speaker 1>Malibu's incredible studio called shangru La, which is like paradise.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it like paradise? You walk through and it's like

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful setting, like the bus studio. This a legendary bus

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<v Speaker 2>studio there obviously that Bob Divin's old taught us. But

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<v Speaker 2>then like it looks like a green oasis like the

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<v Speaker 2>pictures I've seen. And Rick Ruben's like padding around in

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<v Speaker 2>the garden without any shoes on and just looking totally zen,

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<v Speaker 2>waking up and eating grenoda and doing yoga. He just

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<v Speaker 2>looks very identic. Is that really a reality? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Amazing, It's unbelievable, very different to what we know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to how we used to reality being Suddenly it's like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a new reality that we're very happy to

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<v Speaker 1>be involved in.

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<v Speaker 3>For a little bit of time. We like, we went

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<v Speaker 3>out there with this kind of bag of folk songs.

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<v Speaker 3>We didn't know what we were doing with.

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<v Speaker 1>He started this process and it's like Rick, he kind

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<v Speaker 1>of wasn't really around, and we were just like, what

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<v Speaker 1>We've come all this way and he's not really here.

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<v Speaker 1>And then basically we had to get our heads around

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<v Speaker 1>what it was that was going to start happening.

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<v Speaker 3>And what it was is that he would come in

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<v Speaker 3>for about an hour in.

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<v Speaker 1>The late afternoon and he'd listened to whatever it was

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<v Speaker 1>that we'd made, and he talked to us.

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<v Speaker 3>About it, and then he'd go away and we'd keep writing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he'd come back in the early evening for

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<v Speaker 1>half an hour an hour, just listen again to whatever

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<v Speaker 1>else we'd made, have another chat with us, and then

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<v Speaker 1>he'd leave us to our own devices all night to

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<v Speaker 1>turn those things around that he had said about the demos.

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<v Speaker 1>So we just basically we must have made like a

0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.600
<v Speaker 1>one hundred demos for this album. So all this to

0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.160
<v Speaker 1>say is that some of those songs that are on

0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:22.040
<v Speaker 1>this album did begin their life some years ago. Hold

0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.200
<v Speaker 1>your Own the poem began life as a note that

0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.240
<v Speaker 1>I wrote to myself because I was struggling to work

0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.080
<v Speaker 1>out what I wanted to Hold your Own the poetry

0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.320
<v Speaker 1>collection to say. And hold your Own the poem was

0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.920
<v Speaker 1>me instructing myself. It was never intended for anyone else

0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:38.959
<v Speaker 1>to hear it. It was like my way of getting

0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:40.959
<v Speaker 1>my head in order about what I wanted my collection

0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.800
<v Speaker 1>to do. And that's why I wanted it to do

0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Like that was you know, I was talking about gender

0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.599
<v Speaker 1>and sexuality and shame and all this stuff, which is

0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.360
<v Speaker 1>what that poem is basically telling me to do.

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.559
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, So we got to.

0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.320
<v Speaker 1>This point where I was we were so desperate to

0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.400
<v Speaker 1>try and find ideas. We were really clutching at stores.

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 1>We didn't know what it was that he wanted us

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 1>to do. And I was just going through my notebook

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.080
<v Speaker 1>and I just tried that out, just tried reading that

0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:10.480
<v Speaker 1>out while Dan played these chords on the bass, and

0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.160
<v Speaker 1>we were getting to the point where it was like,

0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.560
<v Speaker 1>I think actually that was the first time because Rick

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.440
<v Speaker 1>had been like, I don't want you to listen to

0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 1>the music. So I was like recording the lyrics outside

0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.480
<v Speaker 1>intentionally not listening to Dan, because as soon as I

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 1>heard a beat, I would start keeping to the beat. Yeah,

0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.560
<v Speaker 1>like you know, spent fifteen years learning how to stay

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.800
<v Speaker 1>on a beat. Like it's actually a really hard thing

0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 1>to hear a beat and not get on it. Like

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.560
<v Speaker 1>I just it just had never occurred to me that

0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.440
<v Speaker 1>when there was music that I wouldn't be in time

0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 1>with the music. But Rick's thing was like, go at

0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.680
<v Speaker 1>the integrity of the pace of the lyric. But he

0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 1>couldn't say you just go out the pace of the lyric.

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.319
<v Speaker 1>He just had to say, like it was so cryptic.

0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Hold your own was the first one. When he heard that.

0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:01.760
<v Speaker 1>He came in and he listened just this thing that

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I had in my notebook and downplaying the base and

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.440
<v Speaker 1>he was like, that's it. So that was the first

0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.280
<v Speaker 1>one where we were like, okay, he wants me to

0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.199
<v Speaker 1>just do poetry. We were like, what's the biggest rap

0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 1>producer of the little time? He's telling me to stop rapping?

0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.000
<v Speaker 2>So Ricky could have just said that, Well.

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.200
<v Speaker 1>It's like he couldn't just say that because also the

0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 1>thing is, he can't just tell you what. You've got

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.679
<v Speaker 1>to find it. You've got to discover, like the process

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.720
<v Speaker 1>you've got to find out. Also, he doesn't know. He

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.760
<v Speaker 1>doesn't know any more than we know. He's just looking

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>for this thing all the time. He's trying to strip

0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 1>away everything that's unnecessary, all the convention, everything that's like

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.720
<v Speaker 1>stabilizers or you know, security, Just get rid of that,

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 1>get closer to the essence. That's not an easy instruction

0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 1>to give. It's a process. You have to just keep

0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 1>making demos. That was a really long winded way of

0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.720
<v Speaker 1>saying that the writing process happened slowly over many years.

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 1>But then once we finally had the shape and we

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 1>had about six songs that he Rick could some of

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>these are great, five or six of these are exceptional,

0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.120
<v Speaker 1>and we took those six and we were like, Okay,

0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 1>these are really working. And then I wrote around those

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>six to make it into a cohesive piece. Even as

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I was doing that, I had to fight the temptation

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.400
<v Speaker 1>to like narrativize and link too much, because Rick wasn't

0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>interested in that. He was like, you know, that's more

0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>stuff that gets in the way of the meaning. Put

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 1>the meaning front and center, put the words at the front.

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>You don't need to you don't need like narrative device,

0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 1>because it should just be there, like a real sort.

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Of hands off form of guidance that he provides actially,

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 2>just comes gently, maybe nudging you in directions to make

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 2>your own decisions about things. Maybe a little bit unnerving

0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.720
<v Speaker 2>by the sound of it that he's not there nine

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>to five forensically listening to the stuff you're doing, but

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of just popping in and just being like, have

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you thought that?

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:49.920
<v Speaker 3>Do you know what?

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>But it's even better that he does it that way,

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 1>because that's what he needs to do to be able

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 1>to listen. If he was there all day, then his

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>ears would get as tired as ours are getting, and

0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 1>he would you know, It's like, what would he be

0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>doing all day? Actually, Like the whole thing that he

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 1>offers you is his ability to really listen. It's extremely

0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 1>rare for someone to listen that intently to your work.

0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.080
<v Speaker 1>I've never experienced it before. I think that definitely some bands.

0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 1>I've spoken to other people that have worked with them,

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 1>and definitely people are thrown at first by that thing

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 1>because you're used to a producer being in the room

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 1>with you, rolling up their slaves and getting stuck in.

0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 1>But he's just that's not what he's about. So Dan

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Kerry and I did we did the writing, We did

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.360
<v Speaker 1>the recording with an engineer, great engineer called Sean Opley,

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>and he was just the ears. You know, he's just

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 1>this like presence at the helm.

0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like there's a lot of material, well ninety

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 2>odd songs that didn't make the album. Perhaps you just

0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.760
<v Speaker 2>you've got there that's been created. Do you think you

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 2>will put those together into a collection at some point?

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 2>They feel like they belonged to that time and that

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 2>was that.

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I have this idea. I might be wrong about this,

0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>but I just don't think you should go backwards like that.

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 1>I do a lot of writing towards a project. So

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 1>for example, my novel that I mentioned and probably wrote

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 1>a hundred thousand words that towards that novel that I

0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 1>cut that didn't make it. You know that it's you

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 1>could call it. It's like demos. I made all these

0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.360
<v Speaker 1>demos towards that final cut.

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 3>If you allow.

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Yourself to be too attached to things that you've cut,

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 1>then you're trapped. You're absolutely not able to move forwards creatively.

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 1>And so there's a part of you that has to

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 1>accept and acknowledge and enjoy the fact that, like, you're

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 1>going to write a hell of a lot of stuff,

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.160
<v Speaker 1>a lot of it's going to be no good, and

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the actually the decision to not use it is extremely liberating,

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>and it's like such freshness free. It means that you

0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>can keep going. Because I associate the idea of like

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 1>mining old material with an element of not believing I

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.240
<v Speaker 1>can create new material right now. That's like, that is

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.480
<v Speaker 1>the fear that makes me go back and mine old material.

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 3>Why don't I just write something new? Why don't I

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 3>just start from here. There's a story about like Hemingway.

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 3>Who was it?

0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 1>I think it was Hemingway or one of those kind

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>of like one of those kind of writers.

0:16:59.440 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 3>I think it was.

0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.240
<v Speaker 1>And basically he got to like twenty five and he

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 1>had a briefcase with all of his notebooks that he

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>had been carrying around all his life. You know, he

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 1>wanted to be a writer, but he hadn't written anything yet.

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.160
<v Speaker 1>He wanted to be a writer. He had this briefcase

0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.240
<v Speaker 1>with all his notes and his manuscripts. Obviously, back then

0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>there was no that was it. If you had your manuscript,

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.240
<v Speaker 1>that was your manuscript drags somewhere. Yeah, And there was

0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 1>a fire and he lost it all and it all burnt.

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 1>And then he said that it was the best thing

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.600
<v Speaker 1>that ever happened to him, because suddenly he was free

0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 1>to actually write, actually write from now new You get

0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 1>so attached to old ideas you carry them around, you know.

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.359
<v Speaker 1>So right now, my feeling is, I'm really really happy

0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.640
<v Speaker 1>that we made the decision to not use those demos,

0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'm really glad that we had the ability and

0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the time to write them and decide to discard them.

0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 2>Sounds like it was a surreal at moments being out

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:54.160
<v Speaker 2>at Changri La Yea. Even the day when Rick Ruven

0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.119
<v Speaker 2>turns up with jay Z and brings him into playing

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.160
<v Speaker 2>your music. What was that experience?

0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.159
<v Speaker 1>Like crazy, but like stuff like that was happening all

0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.240
<v Speaker 1>the time. It's loads of crazy, crazy things are happening.

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>I can't even begin to tell you, like the amount

0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 1>of just bizarre things, Like me and Dan were just

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.720
<v Speaker 1>there like what is this place? Like it's like what's

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 1>going on? Like crazy stuff happened. And the guys that

0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>worked in the studio there's like really nice bunch of

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 1>people that work as Shangry Light as well, like really

0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 1>cool bunch of people that work as technicians and assistants

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:28.800
<v Speaker 1>and stuff like that, and they were all like, this

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 1>is mad Rick doesn't do this like often, like just

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 1>bring j up and like, you know, I just want

0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.480
<v Speaker 1>it just happened all the time. But they were saying

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.720
<v Speaker 1>that it's a sign that he's excited about the project,

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:39.560
<v Speaker 1>which is really cool.

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.119
<v Speaker 2>I read some quotes from Rick saying that jay Z

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 2>it really got into jay Z's head what he heard

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 2>and it affected what he wrote for the next album

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 2>that he made.

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.520
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if it's true or not, but

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:55.639
<v Speaker 1>I definitely I remember him listening and and he was

0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.360
<v Speaker 1>really moved, and then he was like, you know, can

0:18:58.359 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I play some of my demos?

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.679
<v Speaker 3>I was like, you just go out of his phone

0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:06.480
<v Speaker 3>the whole time.

0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 1>It's like you're trying to like, remember, I mean, just

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.280
<v Speaker 1>a conversation between two creative people about creativity, like you've

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.520
<v Speaker 1>got to balance it somehow. There's a part of you

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 1>that's like, oh my god.

0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 3>But then you have to just.

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Be like, come on, like why are you being like this?

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 1>This is just the persons who loves language like like

0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 1>I do. And how exciting to be able to have

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 1>a conversation with him about his lyricism or about mine

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 1>or about music. But obviously he's learned. He's got so

0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:35.840
<v Speaker 1>much he's learned in his life. All I could think

0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:40.439
<v Speaker 1>about was like, I'm one step away from Beyonce. I

0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 1>think about to honest, I was just like, man, I

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 1>suppose she's like almost she's more like a goddess, isn't

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 1>she than him? He's like, she's like completely unbelievable, just

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 1>such power. And that's that's I didn't mean her.

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Jay Z. This is great I'm really enjoying speaking to you.

0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.239
<v Speaker 2>But I don't suppose that in the car, is shee?

0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Because I've really liked to meet Yeah.

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 3>I didn't mean that. It's just like a funny thing,

0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 3>isn't it. It's like a different, different world, different universe.

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>It was magnificent that Rick felt good enough about our

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 1>music to play it to someone so important as jay Z,

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.120
<v Speaker 1>And it was really cool that he came and listened

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:18.919
<v Speaker 1>to the demos.

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I don't know what.

0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I ever if I ever saw

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:25.680
<v Speaker 1>him again, I don't know if he'd remember me or

0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 1>it's not like we're mates.

0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Did you and Dan feel self conscious in that situation?

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Dan, When Jay left the room, Dan was like, God,

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 3>look like jay Z.

0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 1>Basically, I just to put it in context, right, So

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.120
<v Speaker 1>we're really jet Like I hadn't like i'd got out

0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 1>of bed, I don't know, about four or five in

0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the morning, Like we weren't really sleeping, and the stupid

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.159
<v Speaker 1>we were staying in these rooms opposite the bus, the

0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.879
<v Speaker 1>bubbling talk Abou's where we were writing, and like I

0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 1>just got up.

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.520
<v Speaker 3>I hadn't really like had a shower or anything.

0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.399
<v Speaker 1>Because it was like Oh my god, I think I

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.480
<v Speaker 1>understand what it is that Rick's been trying to tell us.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 1>I had this epiphany that he just wants poets, just

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.080
<v Speaker 1>me to do poetry flow, there can be a beat.

0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 3>I'd had this epiphany.

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:05.919
<v Speaker 1>So me and Dan we were like, I I got

0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:07.960
<v Speaker 1>straight out of bed and got into the studio. I

0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>had on like a dirty shirt, you know, like I

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.359
<v Speaker 1>don't think I was wearing any shoes of socks.

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.439
<v Speaker 1>It's I mean, it sounds kind of gross to say it,

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.480
<v Speaker 1>but I was. I was not prepared to meet like,

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, anybody. I was. I was going into the

0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:21.440
<v Speaker 1>studio with Dan to try and work out this bonkers

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.399
<v Speaker 1>thing that we were trying to do in this bizarre place.

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 1>So when he came in, all I could think was like,

0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 1>did I brush my teeth properly?

0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.359
<v Speaker 2>Like? Did I just sneak to jay Z with bad bread?

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.680
<v Speaker 3>I hadn't had a show anyway.

0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:37.800
<v Speaker 1>That's the kind of embarrassing thing to admit, Like I

0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.119
<v Speaker 1>rushed my teeth every morning. Everyone needs to know that.

0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 1>But like, just in that situation when suddenly you're like,

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.200
<v Speaker 1>hold on a minute, am I am I decent?

0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Like isn't there lots of different kind of remnants of

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 2>recordings and people that visited the studio, like Eminem's got

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:59.520
<v Speaker 2>a grapefruit tree and like various I know that's Slipknot

0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 2>and Black Sabbath to place recorded there and left different

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.199
<v Speaker 2>items of equipment and stuff. Did it feel like a

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>place full of history? Did it have like an aura?

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 1>It definitely has an aura, like one hundred percent got

0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:12.879
<v Speaker 1>an aura. I mean, Rick's got an aura. You know,

0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 1>it's like you're just it's just an amazing place. So

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.879
<v Speaker 1>much attention is paid to creativity, either that it just

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.880
<v Speaker 1>feels like a church or something. You know, It's like, yeah,

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.400
<v Speaker 1>there is this kind of hush about the place, which

0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 1>is in contrast to all the noise that gets made

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.000
<v Speaker 1>in there, because everyone's just like so reverent about it

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 1>because it's all about the music and it's like really

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.240
<v Speaker 1>amazing music. And also loads are kind of crazy pop

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:37.560
<v Speaker 1>stuff happens in there as well.

0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:40.359
<v Speaker 3>It's just bizarre. I don't know, I.

0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.399
<v Speaker 1>Don't know, like I've never really had any contact with

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.199
<v Speaker 1>that that well before, so you know, like before I

0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:48.240
<v Speaker 1>ever went to Dan Carey studio, I'd never seen a

0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.280
<v Speaker 1>studio like that. I've just seen Like what when we

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 1>said I'm going to the studio, it just meant go

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:53.840
<v Speaker 1>into your friend's bedroom. But where I had like a

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>duv tapped up over the wall. Everything was always broken.

0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:58.520
<v Speaker 1>And it's still like the best thing.

0:22:58.359 --> 0:22:58.720
<v Speaker 3>In the world.

0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, something like this that we're recording.

0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.280
<v Speaker 3>This maze that zoom is like, that's a step up.

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.280
<v Speaker 1>We like shout out to create Bays who I spent

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.399
<v Speaker 1>my formative years like working with. It still felt like

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:15.840
<v Speaker 1>going to an amazing place, just going to my friend's

0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:18.640
<v Speaker 1>bedroom and trying to make a track with no equipment.

0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 1>And then when eventually I got to Dan Carey's studio,

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the first time I looked around there walked in, I

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:27.200
<v Speaker 1>couldn't believe it. I could not believe, you know, because

0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 1>it's like for a musician, for someone with an aspiration

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.879
<v Speaker 1>to be a musician, I wasn't a musician. I wanted

0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:34.080
<v Speaker 1>to be all my life, I wanted to be a musician,

0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 1>but I was not able to do it. I couldn't

0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 1>get a record deal, I couldn't find a producer. I

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 1>didn't have any money. Like it was like I couldn't

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.679
<v Speaker 1>have It was like I was a poet because out

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.119
<v Speaker 1>of necessity I had to. I had needed an outlook

0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.280
<v Speaker 1>for my creativity. But what I wanted to do is,

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, be a recording artist. So then when I

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:55.400
<v Speaker 1>saw Dan Studio and saw that desk, He's got crazy

0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.119
<v Speaker 1>desk and he had his first instrument is guitars. So

0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 1>he's got like guitars from all over the world. They're

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.280
<v Speaker 1>all hanging up around the studio and it's all one room,

0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.840
<v Speaker 1>and he records the drums and the guitars all together

0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:07.679
<v Speaker 1>in the room. But he's got all these clever ways

0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 1>of like using mics for different It was it blew

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 1>my mind.

0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:14.960
<v Speaker 3>It was like, wow, I want to be here.

0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:17.639
<v Speaker 1>I want to be here to be honest, Like the

0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:19.600
<v Speaker 1>amount of writing that we've done in that studio and

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Dan Studio.

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:22.719
<v Speaker 3>We wrote all of Everybody down there.

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 1>We wrote we wrote out the meat Kale Stair, and

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.879
<v Speaker 1>we wrote the majority of traps and Leesson's there at

0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.159
<v Speaker 1>Dan's and then like then going to Rick's place.

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:33.240
<v Speaker 3>It's just like.

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 2>A bit of a step change. Crazy with this new album,

0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:41.439
<v Speaker 2>you are obviously going to go out and play it

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:43.680
<v Speaker 2>at various festivals. I saw you a few weeks ago

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 2>at Premia Various Sound in Barcelona and then in the

0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:47.480
<v Speaker 2>autumn you're going to be doing in a UK tour.

0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.920
<v Speaker 2>What are the moments like before you go on stage?

0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 2>How do you sort of prepare yourself psychologically took out

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 2>and perform. Do you take a bit of a quiet

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 2>moment away from Dan or whoever you performing with that night,

0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:03.800
<v Speaker 2>or do you put some music on? Do you distract yourself?

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:05.399
<v Speaker 2>What are you doing in those moments before you go

0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:05.960
<v Speaker 2>out and perform?

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Two or three hours before stage time, your body starts

0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 1>to feel it, even if your mind is fine. Your

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.560
<v Speaker 1>body starts to pre empt the adrenaline that's about to

0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:19.680
<v Speaker 1>be unleashed. I have felt like really exhausted. You get

0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:23.000
<v Speaker 1>really exhausted and you're like whoa, Suddenly you get really tired.

0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 1>You get nerves. I get crazy nerves for the Catford show.

0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:28.959
<v Speaker 1>I was nervous from about four o'clock the afternoon before,

0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:33.399
<v Speaker 1>couldn't eat, couldn't sit still, Like, I get crazy nerves.

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I don't get them as bad as other times,

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:40.280
<v Speaker 1>but I always get them. So then what becomes important

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:43.880
<v Speaker 1>to manage those nerves and also for the shows when

0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you're not necessarily feeling particularly present because you've been on

0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:50.120
<v Speaker 1>tour and things are tiring or you don't get.

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 3>A lot of sleep.

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 1>On tour, You've got to be on it all the time,

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 1>and it can grind you down a little bit. So

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>it's also important to have those rituals for those days

0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:02.200
<v Speaker 1>when you're not feeling particularly ready or aware of what's

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:02.800
<v Speaker 1>about to happen.

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:04.760
<v Speaker 3>A couple of hours before showtime.

0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I've got my habits that I've formed with who I'm

0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:10.720
<v Speaker 1>playing with at the minute. She's fantastic and she's been

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.680
<v Speaker 1>playing with me since everybody down and she's like an

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:16.880
<v Speaker 1>extremely grounding presence. We have some things that we do,

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 1>like some meditations that we do, Like little things help.

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, I do listen to music. I listened to music,

0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 1>but an hour before stage time, I can't listen to

0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:30.440
<v Speaker 1>any music two hours or three hours before I can.

0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:32.440
<v Speaker 1>So I might listen to music for about an hour.

0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 1>I do some stuff, might do some general exercise or whatever,

0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:35.440
<v Speaker 1>like read.

0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:36.120
<v Speaker 3>I've got to read.

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.240
<v Speaker 1>I'll just chill out, try and try and stay cool,

0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>trying not to drink any alcohol before going up.

0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Got to be careful about when you eat.

0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Crazy things like that, like better to be hungry on stage,

0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 1>always better to be hungry than full up. Never good

0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:51.960
<v Speaker 1>to be full up on stage. And this must sound

0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:53.359
<v Speaker 1>really boring to everyone else, but.

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't at all know. I think these the preparations

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.600
<v Speaker 2>are going to because it is such. I mean, it's

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:01.320
<v Speaker 2>intense to be in the audience. It must be to

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:04.159
<v Speaker 2>fix yourself into that mindset night after night. I'm not

0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 2>surprised to hear you say that you need to go

0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 2>through a bit of a process to get that, you

0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:07.800
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean.

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's crazy, you do.

0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:13.479
<v Speaker 1>Like there's certain stones, certain things that we can do,

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 1>like that clear has introduced me to that encourage certain

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>intentions by in a candle like I just try and

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:24.760
<v Speaker 1>get ready. It hits me about an hour before, so

0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:26.440
<v Speaker 1>I have to I just basically I prepare for the

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:28.760
<v Speaker 1>hour before. Then the hour before comes and it hits

0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:31.760
<v Speaker 1>me and it's like whoa, okay, and you feel it

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.919
<v Speaker 1>and things get a bit like it's like woozy. You

0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:38.719
<v Speaker 1>get woozy, you get like you're kind of drifting around,

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:42.919
<v Speaker 1>You get kind of light headed, like you feel like

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:48.280
<v Speaker 1>you are I don't know, like moving somewhere.

0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Something's happening. So yeah, I do things.

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:55.240
<v Speaker 1>I warm up my voice, I put my stock, put

0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:57.880
<v Speaker 1>my clothes on that I'm gonna wear on stage. That's

0:27:57.920 --> 0:27:59.720
<v Speaker 1>something helpful because I never used to give a shit

0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:02.720
<v Speaker 1>about war on stage. And then I met this amazing

0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:05.440
<v Speaker 1>guy called Harris Elliott, and he helped me understand that

0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 1>even to not make a decision about what you wear

0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:10.640
<v Speaker 1>is a decision about what you were people like at

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>some level, people are like they're reading it even if

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 1>you're even if you wish they wouldn't, they still are.

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 3>So that's been really cool.

0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:20.159
<v Speaker 1>He's helped me work out how important it is actually

0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:21.480
<v Speaker 1>to just have a shirt that you put on, and

0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.160
<v Speaker 1>then you put it on and it's like right, one

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:25.720
<v Speaker 1>step closer then and then eventually when you get to

0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:28.639
<v Speaker 1>the actual back of stage, then I have to do

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:30.439
<v Speaker 1>some stuff like I have to touch this. They have

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:32.159
<v Speaker 1>my little rituals that I have to do, and then

0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:36.919
<v Speaker 1>you walk out and that's it. Like energy work, getting

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 1>ready for the getting ready for what's about to happen,

0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 1>getting yourself in the right place.

0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Not to wish ourselves too far beyond the album that

0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:45.680
<v Speaker 2>you just released. Just the other day it was announced

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 2>that you are going to be making your debut at

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:52.320
<v Speaker 2>the National Theater. He is twenty twenty. Twenty twenty sounds

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:56.240
<v Speaker 2>like a year that's made up because it's just somebody.

0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like, twenty twenty. I think we're all going to

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 2>be like in flying cars by that point. We're not.

0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm just going to be dead.

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Possibly, Yeah, somebody would have Donald Trump would have nuked Iran.

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:12.440
<v Speaker 2>And so I mean in twenty twenty, you're going to

0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:15.600
<v Speaker 2>be making your debut at the National Theater with a

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:19.400
<v Speaker 2>play called Paradise, Right, what can you tell me about that?

0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.440
<v Speaker 2>If you started work on that, how far ahead of

0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 2>the preparations or something like that begin.

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:25.120
<v Speaker 1>I've been working on that play for about three years.

0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Amazing how it works out, isn't it? Like people don't

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 1>realize once a piece of work comes out, you've already

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 1>been like traveling through life with it in your mind

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 1>and body for ages years before it comes out. Usually,

0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 1>this fantastic theater director called Ian Rickson who directed famously

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:43.120
<v Speaker 1>directed a great play called Jerusalem, which I went to

0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 1>see not knowing who he was or not having met him.

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:49.560
<v Speaker 1>With my friend Even Manning, who's a fantastic theater maker.

0:29:49.880 --> 0:29:53.720
<v Speaker 1>Big up Commonwealth, that's a fair company. Anyway, we went

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:55.360
<v Speaker 1>to see this play like years and years and years ago,

0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and it absolutely blew my mind, changed my life. It

0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:00.440
<v Speaker 1>was one of these rare moments where you're like, WHOA,

0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 1>what is this? This was I think before I was

0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:04.880
<v Speaker 1>even writing theater, before I even wrote plays. I went

0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:07.160
<v Speaker 1>to see that with her. Anyway, So this guy, I

0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 1>was lucky enough to meet him. He came to see

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Brandow Ancients and we started to talk and there was

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 1>immediately like obviously deep respect, and we've kept in touch

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and he's always been very generous with his advice about

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:19.800
<v Speaker 1>my stage show and my stagecraft. And then he just

0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.680
<v Speaker 1>approached me with this project. It wasn't attached to any theater.

0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 1>It was just a project. He was like, look, I'm

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>interested in this old play Philoptetes. It was the final

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:31.080
<v Speaker 1>play that Sophocles wrote. He'd just been like ten years

0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 1>in the Peloponnesian War as a general and they'd come

0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 1>home and he had built a shrine in his garden

0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:40.040
<v Speaker 1>to peace, I think, and he'd written this play about

0:30:40.440 --> 0:30:44.840
<v Speaker 1>essentially it's about PTSD really and victimhood and having a

0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:49.120
<v Speaker 1>victim complex and fatherhood and sonship. And it's very male

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:51.840
<v Speaker 1>really because obviously all those plays were they were played

0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 1>by men. But traditionally the thing, you know, the themes

0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:57.240
<v Speaker 1>that it investigates are very are themes often given to

0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 1>male characters.

0:30:58.280 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, we started this.

0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Process with like a room full of wounded ex military

0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:07.680
<v Speaker 1>men and women, because this player is about a wounded soldier,

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 1>ex soldier who's a bandon on an island with a wound.

0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:12.880
<v Speaker 1>That was the first time I'd ever really read this

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:15.960
<v Speaker 1>play was in this room full of these people reading

0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:22.320
<v Speaker 1>it who'd served either in Northern Ireland or Iraq or Afghanistan.

0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Really interesting bunch of people that had like so much

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 1>valuable stuff to feedback about this play and how they

0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:34.239
<v Speaker 1>read it and what it meant certain aspects of it,

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:35.600
<v Speaker 1>what it meant to them. And this is a play

0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.240
<v Speaker 1>that's over two thousand years old. That was really mind

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 1>blowing for me to think about the nature of what remains.

0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 3>You know, it.

0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Took ages from me to like process any of my

0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 1>thoughts about it because I was at the same time,

0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 1>I was touring and I do other things. But Ian

0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:53.240
<v Speaker 1>linked me up with this fantastic woman called Helen who

0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:56.520
<v Speaker 1>wrote me a literal translation of the play.

0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:58.600
<v Speaker 3>So like literal like in the Greek.

0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 1>It wouldn't say Iland, it would say see surrounded land,

0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 1>because that's how they said it. And she knows everything

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:05.800
<v Speaker 1>about ancient Greece, and she can like speak ancient Greek,

0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:07.080
<v Speaker 1>and she's crazy.

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:08.040
<v Speaker 3>She's an amazing women.

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:10.880
<v Speaker 1>So she gave me this real literal translation. And I've

0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:14.400
<v Speaker 1>just been slowly working on drafts and drafts and drafts,

0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:18.280
<v Speaker 1>trying to set the play free from Sophocles, trying to

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:20.640
<v Speaker 1>set myself free from the burden of trying to do

0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 1>a cover version of a song that is so fantastic.

0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, Sophocles is obviously the great, great tragedian, and

0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 1>this version that will open at the National Theater, which

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:34.040
<v Speaker 1>is unbelievable, by the way, in the big room there

0:32:34.040 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 1>as well the Olivia. It's unbelievable. That's like a crazy

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 1>ambition that I had that I didn't believe. I didn't

0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 1>even tell anyone that I had that ambition, and now.

0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:43.760
<v Speaker 3>It's going to happen.

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:48.280
<v Speaker 1>And so basically the play is very different in many

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>ways to the original, but it's true to its essence.

0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:53.240
<v Speaker 1>One of the main changes is that I've introduced a

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 1>chorus of women, and that the players playing the male

0:32:57.280 --> 0:33:01.240
<v Speaker 1>parts will be women because it makes the construction of

0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:04.400
<v Speaker 1>these gender roles even more apparent when it's women playing

0:33:04.880 --> 0:33:07.080
<v Speaker 1>men playing men, you know, because these characters really are

0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:10.000
<v Speaker 1>playing men, like the soldier of the General.

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Got Leslie Sharks performing in it right. Magnificent actor who

0:33:14.280 --> 0:33:17.560
<v Speaker 2>I was first introduced to via the full Monty Wow.

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:21.240
<v Speaker 2>She was in that. More recently she was in Three Girls.

0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:26.440
<v Speaker 2>If you saw that, I did see that incredibly powerful

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:32.240
<v Speaker 2>bit of TV making. I thought, if you started rehearsals,

0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:36.720
<v Speaker 2>people started into the players, yet start later down the line.

0:33:36.800 --> 0:33:38.680
<v Speaker 1>We haven't started rehearsals, but what we have been doing

0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:41.720
<v Speaker 1>is throughout this process is that every now and then,

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:45.160
<v Speaker 1>when when I have a draft that's ready because of

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the caliber of director Ian is because of the power

0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:50.720
<v Speaker 1>that he has, Like he has been able to get

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 1>us in a room with a bunch of actors so

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.640
<v Speaker 1>that I can hear what these lines actually actually sound like.

0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Because it's all very well writing a conversation between nine people,

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:03.479
<v Speaker 1>but until you hear that, you've got no idea if

0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.440
<v Speaker 1>anyone else can follow it, or if it's working or

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:07.560
<v Speaker 1>all that kind of stuff. So we've had like a

0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:10.400
<v Speaker 1>few workshop days and the actors have just been incredible.

0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:13.280
<v Speaker 1>It's just been like for me, it's like a revelation

0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:15.160
<v Speaker 1>obviously to suddenly have.

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, the orchestra there and they're just it's amazing.

0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:23.120
<v Speaker 1>There's playing, they're singing this stuff, this text, and I'm like,

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:25.200
<v Speaker 1>I can follow it. It's like, Okay, that needs to change.

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 1>That needs to change. Leslie came and she read the

0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:31.720
<v Speaker 1>part of Philip T's and my partner, who's like obviously

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.200
<v Speaker 1>seen this play since its very beginnings when I started

0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:38.680
<v Speaker 1>to write it made her cry. There's this performance just

0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 1>in a rehearsal room. You know, that's how powerful an

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:49.799
<v Speaker 1>actor she is. Also, my partner's pretty sensitive, so.

0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.400
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to see it, really excited. We've obviously

0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 2>heard you talk a little bit about the work that

0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 2>you've done musically, the poetry books that you've written, the

0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:58.040
<v Speaker 2>novel that you've written, the plays that you've written and

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.600
<v Speaker 2>now adapted, and things like that. Of all of the

0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:04.279
<v Speaker 2>disciplines that you're involved with, when you look back at

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 2>any of those things that you've done, have any of

0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:09.520
<v Speaker 2>is one been particularly challenging? You've found that's really kind

0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:11.320
<v Speaker 2>of wrung you out as a process that you found

0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:14.080
<v Speaker 2>was just the most difficult thing that you've done.

0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:16.479
<v Speaker 1>I definitely would say that the novel that I wrote

0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:22.080
<v Speaker 1>was like it was extremely invigorating, but it was extremely challenging.

0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I think also because of the time constraints that I

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:28.320
<v Speaker 1>was under, like I had to fit in like the writing.

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:30.040
<v Speaker 1>It would be like, right, I've got two days I

0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:32.120
<v Speaker 1>come off tour. Here, I'm going back on the road. There,

0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 1>I've got two days and I've got to turn around

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:37.840
<v Speaker 1>like another forty thousand words. So it was like, so

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:41.480
<v Speaker 1>being up against that was like, okay, obviously in my life,

0:35:41.640 --> 0:35:46.720
<v Speaker 1>like my actual life just disappeared, and I threw myself

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:50.040
<v Speaker 1>at it, and it was incredible, Like I was learning

0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:53.520
<v Speaker 1>so much about a form that I have loved my

0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:56.040
<v Speaker 1>whole life, you know. I mean, it's taught me so

0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:58.720
<v Speaker 1>much more about the novel trying to write one. Getting

0:35:58.719 --> 0:36:01.759
<v Speaker 1>to the end of writing one, I thought I knew

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 1>a lot about novels because I read so many.

0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:08.880
<v Speaker 3>Actually, I mean, like having an idea even.

0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:10.719
<v Speaker 1>That like merits to form. It was like that was

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:13.480
<v Speaker 1>the most invigorated thing. I was like, oh my god,

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:16.440
<v Speaker 1>this idea is big enough. And during all these maps

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 1>and like the first draft that I wrote that I

0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:20.880
<v Speaker 1>sent around to the publishers, like I didn't even have

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:23.520
<v Speaker 1>any punctuation in it, really because I didn't properly. I'm

0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:25.560
<v Speaker 1>not very good at grammar. I'm just I'm not, like

0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:29.640
<v Speaker 1>I never have been. My dad's really dyslexic, so it's

0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:30.040
<v Speaker 1>my sister.

0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:31.799
<v Speaker 3>A bit might be. I don't know.

0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:33.680
<v Speaker 1>I feel really comfortable with words, so I don't think

0:36:33.680 --> 0:36:35.920
<v Speaker 1>it's that. But maybe I'm just a bit done with Grandma.

0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Like I don't know, I just can't. I don't get it.

0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:40.920
<v Speaker 1>So it's like the first draft of the novel. Like

0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the publisher she didn't know. She didn't know who I was.

0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:44.879
<v Speaker 1>She didn't know that I was like a poet or anything.

0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 1>This is ages ago when she signed the novel up.

0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:48.600
<v Speaker 1>She just thought I was a writer, and she was

0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:50.440
<v Speaker 1>like I love it, but you know, I really you know,

0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 1>this is what a speech mark is and like this

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 1>is what an end.

0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Ash is for.

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:57.200
<v Speaker 1>And I just thought I was writing this, like, you know,

0:36:57.280 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 1>cool experimental novel, because like most of the novels i'd

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.200
<v Speaker 1>red had been like experimental and how they laid out

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:05.239
<v Speaker 1>speech or whatever. But I realized that you have to

0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:06.319
<v Speaker 1>know the rules to break them.

0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:11.239
<v Speaker 2>The final couple of things, because I don't we've got

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:11.920
<v Speaker 2>too much more time.

0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:13.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've been talking loads, don't.

0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:16.839
<v Speaker 2>I podcast absolutely.

0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:18.800
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for giving me space to talk about my world.

0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Our pleasure. Thank you for sharing all of your experiences

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:26.479
<v Speaker 2>that made it sound like a counseling session, which isn't

0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:30.080
<v Speaker 2>quite kind of isting on a couch, Yeah it is

0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:32.040
<v Speaker 2>a bit Yeah for people listening, we are just sat

0:37:32.080 --> 0:37:34.279
<v Speaker 2>on it. There's no there's no windows in this room.

0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:37.000
<v Speaker 2>It's just a couch in the corner. But it's fine.

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:38.799
<v Speaker 2>It's nice and quiet. By the time this goes out,

0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:41.120
<v Speaker 2>glass and brief as all all you have happened. You're

0:37:41.160 --> 0:37:45.960
<v Speaker 2>performing there this year, yep. But exciting is that Stormsy

0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:49.120
<v Speaker 2>is one of the headliners, which feels like a really

0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:53.000
<v Speaker 2>exciting moment for British wrap for like the culture that

0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 2>surrounds Stormsy and everything needs achieved the last few years.

0:37:57.320 --> 0:37:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I just I can't wait. Basically, it's going to be

0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:02.520
<v Speaker 2>really great. You're a big fan of hip hop generally

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:05.680
<v Speaker 2>and rap music, you know very much kind of like

0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:09.279
<v Speaker 2>your beginnings kind of came in that area. So is

0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 2>that significant kind of symbolic moment do you think and

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:14.640
<v Speaker 2>are you excited. It sounds like you're probably looking forward

0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:14.759
<v Speaker 2>to it.

0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing that. I think

0:38:17.160 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 1>he's a fantastic artist. I think he absolutely deserves to

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.959
<v Speaker 1>be on that main stage, headlining that festival. I can't

0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:25.400
<v Speaker 1>wait to see what he pulls out the bag. I

0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:27.800
<v Speaker 1>imagine it will be a really groundbreaking performance for sure.

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:30.719
<v Speaker 1>I think, like British music, British lyricism is in a

0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:31.400
<v Speaker 1>really good place.

0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Who else do you really really like?

0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:34.720
<v Speaker 3>So many people?

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:36.839
<v Speaker 2>My favorite, one of my favorite alms of the years

0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:37.880
<v Speaker 2>so far, it's Little Sims.

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a great album.

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Recent record is fantastic.

0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:42.840
<v Speaker 3>It's a great album. She's fantastic.

0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:47.200
<v Speaker 1>I love her commitment as I perceive it to her integrity.

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:50.160
<v Speaker 1>I really perceive that she's somebody who's extremely committed to integrity.

0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:52.040
<v Speaker 3>I really respect that.

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:55.759
<v Speaker 1>And I think her lyricism is like I think it's

0:38:55.880 --> 0:38:57.760
<v Speaker 1>like she's powerfully talented.

0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 3>You know, she's got powerful talent there. I love her flower.

0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:01.799
<v Speaker 1>I like the way she sticks with the flow, like

0:39:01.880 --> 0:39:03.759
<v Speaker 1>she like sticks She sticks with the flow, like the

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:06.160
<v Speaker 1>whole way that all the way through, she stays on

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:07.400
<v Speaker 1>it stays on, it staysn't it.

0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Are there any achievements that you've still got your eye

0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:13.680
<v Speaker 2>on down the line? I mean you've been involved. You know,

0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:15.640
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned the National Theater and what thrill that's going

0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 2>to be to be able to have have Paradise on

0:39:18.960 --> 0:39:21.720
<v Speaker 2>there next year. Is there anything else that is splitting

0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:23.200
<v Speaker 2>around in your mind that you just sort of think

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I would love to do that.

0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:26.799
<v Speaker 1>Well, Basically the thing about the National is that, like

0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:28.960
<v Speaker 1>years ago, and I was touring Brand New Ancients. I

0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:30.960
<v Speaker 1>think it's okay for me to say this because it's true,

0:39:31.280 --> 0:39:33.640
<v Speaker 1>and so I'll say it. But years ago, when I

0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:35.920
<v Speaker 1>was touring brandw Ancients, they said, would you like to

0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:38.920
<v Speaker 1>come and do Brand New Ancients in our temporary structure

0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:42.120
<v Speaker 1>that we're building outside the theater called the Shed? And

0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:44.879
<v Speaker 1>I was like, Okay, you're up for taking a risk

0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:48.799
<v Speaker 1>by programming new work by a poet, like you know,

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:51.160
<v Speaker 1>it's different kind of stuff than what normally goes on,

0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:53.799
<v Speaker 1>but you're not prepared to take the risk fully and

0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:55.480
<v Speaker 1>program it in your main space. You want to put

0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 1>it in the shed outside And I was like, I'm

0:39:57.960 --> 0:39:59.239
<v Speaker 1>not really up for that, but you can put me

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>in the main house. I definitely want to tell this

0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:05.080
<v Speaker 1>story in the main house, like for sure, especially that

0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:06.880
<v Speaker 1>particular story. You know what I meant and what it

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:10.080
<v Speaker 1>was about and who it's about. And then so I

0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:11.640
<v Speaker 1>was like, thank you, but nah, I'm not up for

0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:13.560
<v Speaker 1>being in the shared Actually I'm not really up for that. Like,

0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:19.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, five years later, seven years later, even it

0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:22.399
<v Speaker 1>was twenty twelve, it would have been seven years later.

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:25.240
<v Speaker 1>It took seven years of me just continuing to work

0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:27.440
<v Speaker 1>and now okay, yeah, okay, now you can be in

0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:27.919
<v Speaker 1>the main house.

0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay.

0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Now this play that I've written, which is I feel

0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:34.600
<v Speaker 1>like the characters in it similarly, I want their stories

0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:36.680
<v Speaker 1>to be heard in a huge space. I want these

0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:39.520
<v Speaker 1>stories heard in a big space. These are big stories.

0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:41.480
<v Speaker 1>So I mean, the reason the fact that I said, oh,

0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:44.200
<v Speaker 1>I was an ambition. It was only an ambition because

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:47.399
<v Speaker 1>they'd said, oh, come and be outside. So that's why

0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:51.600
<v Speaker 1>I had this urge to see if I could convince

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:55.160
<v Speaker 1>them that this kind of storytelling belongs in these big

0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:58.200
<v Speaker 1>spaces that were built for language to be spoken and

0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:00.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, for rhythm and right, like this is what

0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:04.440
<v Speaker 1>these theaters are built for. Design is based on Epidavos

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:06.399
<v Speaker 1>the Olivier Theater, which is one of the old Greek

0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:08.840
<v Speaker 1>theaters anyway. So you ask me about ambitions, but I

0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:11.359
<v Speaker 1>don't really have specific ambitions. I've just got these kind

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 1>of reflection ambitions, the things that have happened or come

0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:16.920
<v Speaker 1>into my path. What I will say is that I absolutely,

0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:19.720
<v Speaker 1>I absolutely hope that I'll continue to be creative.

0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:20.840
<v Speaker 3>That's my main ambition.

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:22.959
<v Speaker 1>That's the thing that I think about, and I pray,

0:41:23.040 --> 0:41:25.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, I really pray for Like, I just want

0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 1>to continue to mate work. I hope that I have

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 1>got lots more albums to make in me, and I

0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:31.279
<v Speaker 1>hope that I continue to finish fired. I definitely would

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.719
<v Speaker 1>love to write another novel. Basically, I would love to

0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:38.160
<v Speaker 1>live a life which is always full of creativity. I

0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:41.520
<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily believe that it will be my work forever,

0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:44.360
<v Speaker 1>like I'm very aware that that's not the case for

0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:48.719
<v Speaker 1>most artists. But I hope I'll continue to be able

0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:49.880
<v Speaker 1>to mate work for sure.

0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Thanks coming on our podcast, Katie. It's an absolute pleasure

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 2>having you on. Wish you all the very best with

0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:57.560
<v Speaker 2>this album obviously, but also all of your work on

0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:00.359
<v Speaker 2>the Players hitting the National Theater next year. Thanks much,

0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:01.120
<v Speaker 2>nice one.

0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:02.759
<v Speaker 3>Thanks everyone for listening.

0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Anyway.

0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Good Night, H