WEBVTT - Some Are Experiencing 'Chronic COVID' Symptoms for up to Months

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, November six. I'm Oscar Ramirez from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctors are beginning to figure out why some people have

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<v Speaker 1>long term symptoms from COVID nineteen, called post acute COVID

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<v Speaker 1>or chronic COVID. Many are continuing to deal with symptoms

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<v Speaker 1>for weeks or months after they were expected to recover.

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<v Speaker 1>These symptoms range from severe fatigue and brain fog, two

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<v Speaker 1>digestive problems, and erratic heart rates. Simothy Ready Wall Street Journals,

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<v Speaker 1>your health columnist joints for what could be causing these

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<v Speaker 1>long term effects. Thanks for joining us, Simmothy, Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>having me. I wanted to talk about these long haul

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<v Speaker 1>COVID patients, people that are experiencing symptoms for weeks, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>months after they were expected to recover. You know, they say,

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<v Speaker 1>my old normal cases of COVID nineteen can last year,

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<v Speaker 1>about two weeks before you recover. But this is part

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<v Speaker 1>of what this novel coronavirus is. We're finding out that

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<v Speaker 1>everybody is responding to this differently, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>times people are experiencing these long symptoms of severe fatigue,

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<v Speaker 1>cognitive issues, memory loss, they call it brain fog. People

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<v Speaker 1>are experiencing digestive problems, the erratic heart rates, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of stuff that is that is going into this.

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<v Speaker 1>So Simothy tell us a little bit more about what

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<v Speaker 1>we're learning of these long term effects people are experiencing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's they're really interesting phenomenon to to have people who

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<v Speaker 1>in many cases they're sort of acute COVID. Their initial

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<v Speaker 1>COVID isn't that bad. That's not everyone, but and just

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<v Speaker 1>in many cases, so you know, they're sick, they sick

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<v Speaker 1>for a couple of weeks, they think they've recovered or

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<v Speaker 1>feel better, only they haven't. So for some of them,

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<v Speaker 1>they're developing new symptoms weeks later, and they symptoms will

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<v Speaker 1>persist for months and sumptions are going on for now six, seven,

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<v Speaker 1>eight months, and in others they're actually getting worse. So

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<v Speaker 1>what was sort of a mild case of cod initially

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<v Speaker 1>has now evolved into way sort of chronic condition whe

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<v Speaker 1>they're developing new and even worsening symptoms, you know, months

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<v Speaker 1>later and really not getting any better. You spoke to

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people that are these long haulers are

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<v Speaker 1>experiencing these types of symptoms, and I think one of

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<v Speaker 1>the people you spoke to put it best, and it

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<v Speaker 1>can just feel the frustration of it. They said, I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like there has to be some sort of next

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<v Speaker 1>step because I'm not ready to accept that this is

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<v Speaker 1>my new reality. Basically, like, there has to be this

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<v Speaker 1>point where I get over it. You know, it can't

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<v Speaker 1>be like this forever. Um. In many cases, these are

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<v Speaker 1>young and extremely healthy people. I mean, I've reviewed dozens

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<v Speaker 1>of them over the past four months, and I've interviewed

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<v Speaker 1>marathon runners, I've interviewed avid skiers, surfers, and these are

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<v Speaker 1>people who were extremely active and athletics beforehand. Again, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not everyone, but it seems like a large percentage of

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<v Speaker 1>them are so to go from having no chronic conditions

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<v Speaker 1>to be young and healthy and active to basically being

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<v Speaker 1>debilitated to the point where you know, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>them can't walk more than five blocks down the street

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<v Speaker 1>or even all without a wheelchair or a cane or

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<v Speaker 1>something to support them. You know, it's quite like transforming

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<v Speaker 1>and obviously extremely frustrating. Let's try to put some numbers

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<v Speaker 1>to this, and you know, it's it's hard to do that,

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<v Speaker 1>but there was a recent study of more than four

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<v Speaker 1>thousand COVID patients and they found out that about ten

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<v Speaker 1>percent of those they were eighteen forty nine struggled symptoms

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<v Speaker 1>for four weeks after becoming sick. That's just one part

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<v Speaker 1>of it. You know, there's people that are obviously experiencing

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<v Speaker 1>things longer than that. Those numbers drop off, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of the rough estimate that you get from a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different places that this affects. It seems to

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<v Speaker 1>effect about ten to fiftcent of the population, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least those people that are still sick after a month.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard to know how many of them get better.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, according to that one sort of symptom tracker,

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<v Speaker 1>it seemed to drop by about half that by two

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<v Speaker 1>months you had about four or five percent of people

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<v Speaker 1>that were still sick, and then after three months it

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<v Speaker 1>was down to two. But there is a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>criticism from sort of patient groups about that to Go

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<v Speaker 1>app just because it's a daily app. So obviously some people,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly if they're really stick, gets sick of sort of

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<v Speaker 1>logging on every day, they might just stop doing the app.

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<v Speaker 1>That doesn't mean they're better or recovered, but it's translated

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<v Speaker 1>that way, so it probably those mems are a very

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<v Speaker 1>conservative estimate. There's other long term symptoms associated with other

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<v Speaker 1>viral outbreaks, things like stars and mers and all that,

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<v Speaker 1>But what makes COVID different is all the different organs

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<v Speaker 1>that it can affect. And the leading explanation for this

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<v Speaker 1>that doctors really thing why people get affected in so

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<v Speaker 1>many different ways and and then get these longer symptoms

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<v Speaker 1>is that they think it has a lot to do

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<v Speaker 1>with inflammation sort of. The leading theory is that inflammation

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<v Speaker 1>and possibly in the body has an autoimmune response, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's sort of attacking its own tissue in Oregon, that

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<v Speaker 1>might be what's driving the damage. You know, it's also

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<v Speaker 1>obviously under investigation and being researched. It's unclear whether that's

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<v Speaker 1>being written by sort of viral fragments that are left

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<v Speaker 1>in the body that aren't enough for anyone to be infectious,

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<v Speaker 1>but that are triggering inflammation and sort of autoimmune response,

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<v Speaker 1>or if there's actual virus vile traces like actually lodged

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<v Speaker 1>in in a different part of the body that could

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<v Speaker 1>be kind of reactivating almost like a dormant virus and

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<v Speaker 1>causing symptoms. A lot of patients do complain of sort

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<v Speaker 1>of like cyclical systems like feeling better for a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of weeks and then redopting and feeling sick. So that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of theory might drive with that. And you've been

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<v Speaker 1>looking into this for a long time, Like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>you've spoken to many people, even children that come down

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<v Speaker 1>with COVID nineteen in some cases are getting some longer

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<v Speaker 1>term effects. A lot of that has to do with

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<v Speaker 1>gas row intentional stuff, headache, shortness of breath, things like that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is really all consuming. I've talked to

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<v Speaker 1>patients who have severe g I issues, severe cognitive issues,

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<v Speaker 1>brain fogs, rashes, hair loss, high, very high heart rates,

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<v Speaker 1>very multi some symptoms. And one of the leading sort

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<v Speaker 1>of theory is that these people are developing disautonomia, which

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<v Speaker 1>is sort of a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's an umbrella term, and it's commonly triggered by viruses,

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<v Speaker 1>so not just COVID, but it's just triggered by influenza

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<v Speaker 1>or stars or other things, and it affects different organ systems,

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<v Speaker 1>so it can affective breathing, your heart rate, your blood pressure, digestion.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's some of these patients are starting to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of get a digohoster and treated for that. And so

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<v Speaker 1>how are doctors trying to treat these other things? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously you have to wait for these symptoms to persist

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<v Speaker 1>to actually you start addressing it. But what are doctors

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<v Speaker 1>figuring out? What are they going to try to do

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<v Speaker 1>with it? There's a lot of caution how to treat this,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I just mentioned disautonomia, this audoonomia. You know, it

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<v Speaker 1>causes tachocardia, which is an erratic heart rate, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>not you don't have damage to your actual heart. The

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<v Speaker 1>way you might treat someone like disautonomia would be really

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<v Speaker 1>bad if you actually did have heart damage. So the

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<v Speaker 1>patients have to undergo very careful evaluations. Like before you

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<v Speaker 1>would treat disarnomia, you'd want to get an echo cardiogram

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<v Speaker 1>or cardiac MR. I make sure that person that doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>have myocardiais or something you know, cardiac problem with more

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<v Speaker 1>cardiac in nature that would have to be treated differently.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot of tests were ruling out of

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<v Speaker 1>things like to make sure there's no permanent sort of

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<v Speaker 1>organ damage that's going on, and they are finding since

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<v Speaker 1>the organ damage but in a very small minority of patients.

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<v Speaker 1>Best of luck to these people that do get these

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<v Speaker 1>long term symptoms, and hopefully doctors can get better at

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<v Speaker 1>treating it. And you know where we're going through this.

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<v Speaker 1>We're still learning constantly more things about COVID nineteen, so

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<v Speaker 1>we'll see what happens. Simothy Ready, Wall Street Journals, your

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<v Speaker 1>health columnist, Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>so much for having me. I'm Oscar Ramirez and this

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<v Speaker 1>has been reopening America. Don't forget effort today's big news stories.

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<v Speaker 1>You can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast

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<v Speaker 1>every Monday to Friday, so follow us on I Heart

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<v Speaker 1>Radio or wherever you get your podcast