1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Evite says the average American hasn't made a new friend 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: in five years. 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: I was going to be shocked at first, but true true. 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: My first curiosity is when did evite jump into friendship research? 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: People are still sending evites? I guess Oh. 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: I hate when I get those. 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: I can never open it. I click it in that 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: little envelope be halfway flipping over and it don't flip 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: all the way over. Frustrating. 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call you and say, in thirty minutes, 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: hop on. 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: Zoom, that's the type of friend my friend Zekiya is. 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: I'm t T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: is dope labs. I feel like friendships are always being tested, 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: but more so now because of quarantine. 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: Yes, we know some of your friends partied on the 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: fourth and now they want to come up to your house. 18 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: So what you're gonna do. 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: Y'all not coming to my house with your COVID shirts 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: and your COVID pants and your COVID hands. I'm not 21 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: not in my house. 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 3: Not. 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Let me tell you. She is laying down the law, 24 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: and it's firm. A couple of weeks ago, it was 25 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: my birthday, she showed up and stood out there in 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: the blazing hot sun, fifteen to twenty feet from my 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: door with her mask on. I'm surprised you didn't have 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: on goggles on top of your glasses. 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: I'm not playing around. I don't want to get sick, 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: and I don't want to get other people sick. I'm 31 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: thinking about the global community. But that where y'all do 32 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: not care. 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: But you do care, and that's something that I love 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: about you as a friend. This TT is the most 35 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: caring a right. You need something to balance out because 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: you know on the other side. 37 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: Ruthless. Okay, I'm super excited about this episode today though, 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: because we are talking all about friendship, and. 39 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: I know friendship has been on some of y'all's minds 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: because I see you subtweeting your subtweeting folks when Insecure 41 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: is on. 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: Yes, everybody's like, oh, I know a Molly, and I 43 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: see a lot of people pointing fingers that Molly's in 44 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: their lives. But it's so funny because none of y'all 45 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: are saying, y'all are Molly. 46 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: How is that possible? You gotta hold that mirror up 47 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: and you gotta say self, y'all already know we're best friends, 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: but for this episode, we wanted to hear from some 49 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: other best friends too. 50 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: So we brought in real life best friends and hosts 51 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: of the podcast Call Your Girlfriend, Ann Friedman and Ami 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: Na Tu. 53 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 3: So. My name is Ann Friedman. 54 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 4: I am Ami Not So. 55 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 3: We co host the podcast Call Your Girlfriend, and we 56 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 3: co wrote the book Friendship, How We Keep each Other Close. 57 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 4: It's available July fourteenth wherever you buy books, but especially 58 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 4: at your local indie bookshop, or please borrow it from 59 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 4: your local library. 60 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: I already read it. 61 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 2: I already read it, and I have my hard copy 62 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: pre ordered. 63 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: You'll hear them chiming in throughout the episode with their 64 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: own experiences and thoughts about friendship. 65 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: Let's get into the recitation. So what do we know? 66 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: Well, we know most people have friends. Now, those friends 67 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: you have might range and likability, but they're there. 68 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, some friends are better than others, and some friendships 69 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: are just for a season. 70 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: And some friendships turned into a podcast. That's right, But 71 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: what do we want to know? 72 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: I feel like people use the term friend so loosely 73 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: these days, so I want to know how do you 74 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: define a friend like a real friend? 75 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what makes a good friend. 76 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: Conflict is going to in every relationship, So how do 77 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: you navigate those waters? And if you feel like you 78 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: need to part ways with that friend, how do you 79 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: break up? 80 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: You know, I often hear humans or social creatures, but 81 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: is that unique to us? You know my stance, We're 82 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: all just animals, So is there evidence of friendship in 83 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: other animals? 84 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: And during this time in quarantine, when we're all in 85 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: our houses and not able to meet up with our 86 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: friends like we normally do, what do we do to 87 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 2: combat those feelings of loneliness that we have because we're 88 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: all separate. 89 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: And we know we run't alone with these questions. And 90 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: and Aminatu had the same questions while writing their. 91 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: Book, and we know that you might have the same 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: questions too, So let's jump into the dissection. 93 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: Today's guest expert is doctor Marissa g. Franco. 94 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 5: Hello, everybody, I'm doctor Borissa Gifranco. I am a psychologist 95 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 5: and a friendship expert. 96 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 2: We asked her all our questions about friendship and how 97 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: to make the most of it. Let's dive right in 98 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: and start with the basic definition of friendship. 99 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: Mariam Webster says friendship is the state of being friends 100 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: but that's not really helpful. What happened to not using 101 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: a word to define another word? 102 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: Did y'all learn that room, Mariam? 103 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: That's exactly well, how does it define a friend? 104 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: It says a friend is a person whom one knows 105 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, 106 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: typically exclusive of sexual or family relations. 107 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: But the rap group Houdini told us that the dictionary 108 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: doesn't really know the meaning of friends, so we asked 109 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: doctor Franco. 110 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 5: But for me, personally, I feel like I define a 111 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 5: friendship as a relationship where there's mutual love that rejuvenates 112 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 5: it replenishes me. 113 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 2: I mean not too and Anne explain the term that 114 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: they coined, big friendship. 115 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: I think we were really looking for a term that 116 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: was not best friend and also, so you know, something 117 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: beyond like bestie or BFF, which feels, you know, a 118 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: little younger, like we're in an adult friendship with its 119 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 3: own adult pros and cons, and big friendship felt like 120 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 3: an important way of staking out some new language for 121 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 3: the kind of long term, really mutually supportive and intimate 122 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 3: friendship that we have. And it sounds like you all 123 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: have too. 124 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like best friends, but in a 125 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: suit all grown up. But what makes a good friend? 126 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Franco gave us three main things you should expect 127 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: if you're looking for a good friend or want to 128 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: be one. 129 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: The first one is a good friend should be rooting 130 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: for you. 131 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 5: When we really become a friend with someone, we begin 132 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 5: to incorporate them into our sense of our own identity. 133 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 5: So what that means is that, like, if they feel hurt, 134 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 5: we feel hurt. If they feel good, we feel good. 135 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 5: The boundaries between ourselves and other people are emotionally decrease 136 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 5: when we become friends with someone. 137 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: The second thing is that there should be some shared vulnerability. 138 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 5: Where you're sharing and revealing things about yourself and they're 139 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 5: doing the same. 140 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: And the third thing is that you guys support one another. 141 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 5: I like to say that a friendship in general should 142 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 5: be fifty to fifty in the book of the friendship, 143 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 5: but each chapter will be different. In times of crisis, 144 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 5: one friend might need a hundred while you're getting zero, 145 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 5: and that's going to be shifting over time. 146 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: That sounds good overall, but getting that balance just right 147 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: can be tricky. 148 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, cause I'm sure some friends when you're given twenty 149 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: five percent and they have to give seventy five percent. 150 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: They might feel some type of way. 151 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: Here's what Anne says about this, and I think that's 152 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: generally true. 153 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: But what's hard about it, like living it in real time, 154 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: is like you don't know what the whole book is, 155 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 3: Like you know, all you know is the chapter you're in, 156 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: in the chapters that have come before. 157 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: That is such a good point, Like when you think 158 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: about it, how do you know when it's your turn 159 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: to carry the heavy load or if you should just 160 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: cut your losses. 161 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes that can feel like a lot of work for 162 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: someone who's just a friend. But doctor Franco tells us 163 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: that's exactly the problem framing it as just friendship. 164 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 5: We need to give friendship more dignity. It's not an 165 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 5: inferior form of a relationship. We shouldn't be asking people, 166 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 5: you know, when are you gonna get married, When are 167 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 5: you're going to get a husband? We should ask them 168 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 5: like have you found community? Because that's what's most important, 169 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 5: like that you feel a sense of belonging with other people. 170 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: And the research shows us that these three points are 171 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: important for friendships and romantic relationships. 172 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 1: The research says that one of the best predictors of 173 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: whether people stay together and are satisfied with their romantic 174 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: relationships is whether they feel like they're friends with their partner. 175 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: So friendship does matter. 176 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 5: And so friendship is actually part of what makes romantic 177 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 5: relationships last, like the sense of I feel like you 178 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 5: fully see me, I feel like I'm fully seen by you. 179 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 5: I feel like we show up for another and support 180 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 5: one another. All of those traits that we see in 181 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 5: our friends are also what makes romance buzz and continue 182 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 5: and be sustained. 183 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: You already know how I feel about friendship. 184 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: Yes, Zakia is how do I say this? Sakia is 185 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 2: an intense friend. She's a all no friend. But in 186 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 2: bold italics and underlined, well, just. 187 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: For the record, we know friendship can literally change your life. 188 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely. My life would not be the same without Zekiah. 189 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 2: We would not be doing this podcast if Zekiah were 190 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 2: not my friend. 191 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: Well, I've met more along the lines of what studies 192 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: show us. But yeah, studies show us that friends improve 193 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: your self confidence, your self worth, and help you cope 194 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: with trauma and more. There's a correlation between a strong 195 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: social support network and lower risk for health problems like depression, 196 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: high blood pressure, and high BMI. 197 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: So we're getting double the benefits friendship and health, but 198 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: I mean not too says you still have to do 199 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: the work to get your friendship to that point, and 200 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: that can be tricky. 201 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 4: There is not a lot of social support for how 202 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 4: you're supposed to be in a friendship. I always feel 203 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 4: awkward when I have friend drama in a way that 204 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 4: I don't feel awkward when I have romantic drama. I'm 205 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 4: always like, uh, I know how to deal with that, 206 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: you know. I'm like, I have scripts for that, you know. 207 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 4: I was like television says you like key their car, 208 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 4: or you do that, you know, Not that I'm saying 209 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 4: that that's what you're supposed to do. I just think 210 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 4: that there's there's so much like visual imagery for like 211 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 4: to represent a kind of internal turmoil that you can have. 212 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 4: But like telling you a friend, Like if I got 213 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 4: a text from a friend that was like we need 214 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 4: to talk, I'm like, I am already halfway to Uganda. 215 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 4: I'm like I'm out of here, Like I don't need 216 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 4: to talk to. 217 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: You, right. No one wants to have those awkward conversations, 218 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 2: But after you have. 219 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: Them, I feel like it makes you grow stronger. 220 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the whole Like pressure make Simon's things. 221 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: I think that can also apply to friendship, like the 222 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 2: hard times makes it more beautiful, We. 223 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: Asked, I mean, not to an end, how to make 224 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: friendship more official? So how do you get to the 225 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: point where you and lockstep and just unbreakable? 226 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 2: It feels weird to say, hey, friend, I know we 227 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: just met, but are you ready to take this friendship 228 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: to the next level? 229 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 3: Hearing you say that makes me think about a communications 230 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 3: professor we interviewed who was saying that one of the 231 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 3: hallmarks of friendships that last a long time is that 232 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 3: they contain these assurances wherein you have said out loud 233 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 3: to each other that hey, we want to be friends 234 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: for a long time. 235 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: This actually happened in Menzakia's friendship, where we said out loud, 236 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,599 Speaker 2: or Zekia said out loud that we were gonna be 237 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: friends from friends forever. Minzekia had a disagreement. 238 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: Do you remember what it was about? I have no clue. 239 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: It was so long ago and I truly do not remember, 240 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: but we had a disagreement. It was very early in 241 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: our friendship, and you know me, I felt like, okay, well, 242 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: we don't know each other that well, we've had this disagreement. 243 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 2: That means we probably are not friends anymore. And so 244 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: the next day I get at message from Zekiah and 245 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: she's like, oh, come to my lab. 246 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean why not. That's what we have been 247 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: doing every day before that. 248 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: And so I was like, well, dang, I guess she 249 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 2: want to fight or something like she want to argue 250 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 2: some more. I don't know. And so I went over 251 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: there and I was like, hey, girl, what's up? Because 252 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: I didn't know what to expect, and she don't stand offish, 253 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: and she was like, girl, this happened. 254 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: Da da dada da. 255 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: Oh we need to do this, We need to do that, 256 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: Da da da da, and just was acting like nothing happened. 257 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, you know, I thought you 258 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: were upset. I thought we weren't friends anymore. 259 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: I was devastated. 260 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: Zakia started crying. Well, if you know Zekiah, you know 261 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: it really doesn't take much for her to her eyes 262 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: to well up with tears. But she was just so 263 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 2: she looked like she was blindsided. She was like, what 264 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: we are friends forever? 265 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 5: Now? 266 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: You made me sound like a h This sounds like 267 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: a hostage situation. It is it is someone help help. 268 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: I think I just thought there was some permanence that 269 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: I had conveyed, you know, And I think from that, 270 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: I felt like I haven't said the things to make 271 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: you feel safe and secure in this friendship. And so 272 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: I decided right then with that, Pipette id wed to friendship. 273 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: I do, I do. We all know friendship is good 274 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: for us, So why do we keep hitting these stumbling 275 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: box Why do we keep fumbling the bag? 276 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: Yes, friendships are so complicated, but they are so important. 277 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: And when we get back, we're going to talk about 278 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: why you should prioritize your friendships and. 279 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: How to navigate them. Once you do, we're back and 280 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: we're ready to jump right into the peaks and valleys 281 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: of friendship. 282 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: Doctor Franco talked to us about how society has conditioned 283 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: us to feel like our friendships are not important, but 284 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 2: that's not true. 285 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 5: Like the ways that we have our society is set up. 286 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 5: It's actually like if you're not in a romantic relationship, 287 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 5: you're at a disadvantage. Like there's all these privileges that 288 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 5: are afforded to people who are in a romantic relationships 289 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 5: that are not afforded to people that live a life 290 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 5: of deep connection through friendship. 291 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: Here's i'm Anato's tape. 292 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and for me, it's like that is 293 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 4: such a reality of my life. It's like my four 294 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 4: oh one K recipient is a friend my the person 295 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 4: who has my medical directive and power of attorney is 296 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 4: my friend, you know. And every time it's you know, 297 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 4: you're kind of at the mercy of what happens when 298 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 4: you know, if someone challenges that policy directly, it's like 299 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 4: I can tell you that, like I have had friends 300 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 4: come and visit me in the hospital and seeing like 301 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 4: medical professionals kind of bristle a little bit at it, 302 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: and I'm like, no, no, this is not just my friend, Like, 303 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 4: this is my literal person that will like that is 304 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 4: going to take care of you know, that's going to 305 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 4: have to deal with a body if I don't come 306 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 4: out of here alive. So you have to respect that bond. 307 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 4: But I think that you're you're really identifying like all 308 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 4: of the ways that you know, we minimize a really 309 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 4: intense emotional relationship that we can have with someone because 310 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 4: capitalism and society ultimately is shaped in a way where 311 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 4: marriage just reigns. As you know, this this bond that 312 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 4: is unbreakable, and I'm like, all I know is divorce people. 313 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: So I was like, I like, the premise is flawed. 314 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: All this sounds good, right, Me and Zakia have had 315 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: a really great friendship, but we both have friends that 316 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: are no longer our friends, and that is when it 317 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: gets really difficult. So we wanted to know how to 318 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: navigate the conflict waters with your friends. Yes, those are 319 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: choppy waters, Hella, choppy, those are like hurricane in the 320 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 2: middle of the ocean waters. 321 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 5: Open pathtic conflict actually is related to having a deeper 322 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 5: sense of friendship. But the reality is that friendship actually 323 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 5: tends to be a relationship of things left up. Said, 324 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 5: You're a lot less likely to mention a problem in 325 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 5: a friendship than you are in a romantic relationship, and 326 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 5: that's because I think people fear that if you bring 327 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 5: something up, you know, because friendships we don't maybe have 328 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 5: the same amount of time together as romantic relationships or 329 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 5: even this formal meritive about they feel more fragile. And 330 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 5: I think people have a lot of fear around engaging 331 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 5: in conflict because of that. 332 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: And I think that's true. I've heard of a lot 333 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: of people including myself, who just kind of stopped talking 334 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: to folks and don't bring up what the problem is 335 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: and just say we're just not friends anymore. We had 336 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: a falling out, we grew apart or whatever. 337 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: I feel like if I'm not close with someone, it's 338 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: much easier for me to say this is what's wrong, 339 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: this is what's bothering me. But for my close friends, 340 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: I know that when I'm upset, nobody wants to hear 341 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: those words. And I don't want to say anything that 342 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: I don't mean, and so I just wait and wait, 343 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: and I'm like, when are you When do you feel 344 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: like you've really got it just down to a tee? 345 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: And by that time I look like a crazy person. 346 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: Five years ago, thirty seven weeks ago, on a Tuesday, you. 347 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: Said, and I'm like, what did I say? 348 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: No, we could all use some tips on getting a 349 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: conversation started when there's conflict. 350 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 4: Like, it's not something that you learn when you're six 351 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 4: years old and then you just you know how to 352 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 4: be a good friend. It's like some people are good 353 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 4: friends and some people are not. I'm like, no, it's 354 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 4: just you have to constantly You were constantly challenged as 355 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 4: a person. 356 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 2: Doctor Franco says that there is a best way to 357 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 2: enter into conflict with your friend, and it's based on 358 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: a theory called reciprocity theory, and it's basically the idea 359 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 2: that people respond to you how you talk to them. 360 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: So if you're kind to them, they're likely to be 361 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: kind in return, and if you nice and nasty, they're 362 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: gonna be nice and nasty back. 363 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 5: First thing you need to do is you need to 364 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 5: be able to enter into this conversation from a place 365 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 5: of empathy and perspective taking. And if you feel really 366 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 5: angry and stressed out, then that is not the time 367 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 5: to enter the conversation. So first you need to get 368 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 5: your mind and your energy ready right. 369 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: So, if we're thinking about the whole conflict with Molly 370 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 2: and Lisa, Molly could have really used these steps to 371 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: help her talk to Lisa in a way that could 372 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 2: have preserved their friendship and they could have been back 373 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: on track a lot sooner. So first Molly could have 374 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 2: been like, let me not assume the worst of her. 375 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 2: This is my friend, We've been friends for so long. 376 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: Let me come into the space with my heart open 377 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: and ready to forgive. 378 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 5: Then you open up the conflict with a sentence that 379 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 5: is welcoming and inviting and affirms the value of the friendship. 380 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 5: So I think with my friend, I said something like, 381 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 5: I love you. Our friendship is so important to me, 382 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 5: which is why I want to make sure that I'm 383 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 5: expressed things that are weighing on me so that they 384 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 5: don't get into the way of our bond. So that's 385 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 5: a lot better than you know, we need to talk 386 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 5: because I'm pissed. 387 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: So Molly could have just said, Lisa, we've been friends 388 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: for a really long time and there's something that has 389 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: been on my mind. It's been weighing on me, and 390 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: I just got to get it off my chest because 391 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: I love you and I don't want it to get 392 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: in the way of our friendship. 393 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: I love that this does not feel like an argument. 394 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 5: Then what you do is you share your internal world. 395 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 5: You don't tell them about what they did. You tell 396 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 5: them about they how what they did affected you. And 397 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 5: that's what you share. You share that vulnerability because the 398 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 5: vulnerability is what brings people's guards down and welcomes them 399 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 5: to be vulnerable too. After you share your vulnerability, I 400 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 5: statements not you, statements not you did a horrible thing 401 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 5: I felt this way, and then you ask them to 402 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 5: share their world what was going on. 403 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 2: For them, so Molly could have said something like what 404 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: brought us to a have For me is when I 405 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 2: found out that you had talked to Nathan to talk 406 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 2: to my boyfriend about getting an ad for the block party. 407 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 2: That made me feel like you weren't taking my feelings 408 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: into consideration because we had had a conversation already and 409 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: that hurt. 410 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a way better approach than how we 411 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: normally handle things, which is why was you talking behind 412 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: my back and I already told you and. 413 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 2: Started a fight at ASA's job at the block party? 414 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: That was so inappropriate. 415 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 5: Last you asked them for what you want to see 416 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 5: in the future, so you say like something like, hey, 417 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 5: next time when I need support, could you please just 418 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 5: reach out to. 419 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: Me going forward, because I value you as a friend 420 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: and I don't want to lose you as a friend. 421 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: Let's just talk it out a little bit more. I 422 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: think that conversation deserved more time so that maybe you 423 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: could have understood my perspective a little bit better and 424 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: we could have came to some other conclusion to try 425 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: and help you out with the work. You were doing, 426 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: because I know it's important to you. 427 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: And it's important not to beat up on ourselves as 428 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: we go through this process. Friendship is not perfect. We're 429 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: all just figuring it out as we go, and and 430 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: says she and Amina Tou are no different. 431 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 3: In defense of our past selves. We're not really trained 432 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 3: to recognize the like the emotions associated with awkwardness or 433 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: conflict within a friendship, especially the kinds of stuff we 434 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: write about, which are not huge, dramatic transgressions. They were 435 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 3: like little moments when we were missing each other that 436 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 3: later became big moments. 437 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 2: Right Because in their book they talk about this interaction 438 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: or conflict that they had that surrounds this friend group 439 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: called the Desert Ladies. Definitely read about it. It was 440 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: very very interesting, and it was a conflict that they 441 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 2: ended up not really resolving. 442 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 4: Actually what happened is that years later it just exploded 443 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 4: in our faces that something that we hadn't talked about 444 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 4: was one of the very original sins of many many 445 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 4: disagreements that we'd had. And so I think that with 446 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 4: the hindsight, with the knowledge of hindsight, is really understanding 447 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 4: that if I am not comfortable about something and how 448 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 4: I relate with someone else, like a special a close friend. 449 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 4: It's very possible that they have that same discomfort and 450 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 4: they're just not saying it because it seems like a 451 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 4: small thing. 452 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: That's a really good point, and hopefully we can start 453 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: to have these reminders to check in with yourself. Is 454 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: this just in my head? Or did I say something 455 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: out loud so someone else know? You know what I mean, Like, 456 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: I know that sounds crazy alone. Yes, it's just in 457 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: my head. 458 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: No, it's not just in your head. Say those things 459 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 2: out loud. Probably most times it's not even as serious 460 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 2: as you think. Or it's a misunderstanding that you guys 461 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 2: can get over. But if you keep spinning your wheels 462 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: in your head and assuming and thinking like all these 463 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: awful things, then it'll affect your relationship downstream. 464 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: So these are some good strategies, but we all know 465 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: that it doesn't always turn out like this. 466 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 2: Yes, me and as a kid have been friends for 467 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 2: a long time, but we also have friends that we 468 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: are no longer friends with, so it doesn't always end 469 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: up with a podcast. 470 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: So when you gotta do it, what's the best way 471 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: to break up with a friend? 472 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 5: I would say that the answer is going to differ 473 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 5: depending on how close you are. If you're kind of 474 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 5: like casual acquaintances, I think it's okay to like just 475 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 5: kind of back away or be busy. But once you 476 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 5: get into the stage where you're like actually close and 477 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 5: you're actually friends, you want to have a direct conversation. 478 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 5: And the reason that is is because if you don't, 479 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 5: you trigger something called ambiguous loss. An ambiguous loss is 480 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 5: when people can't process an ending because they didn't get 481 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 5: the necessary closure, and so it leads them to ruminate 482 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 5: and obsess. It's kind of like ghosting. Ghosting is an 483 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 5: ambiguous loss, and they're not able to move forward, and 484 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 5: so you take away another person's piece. If you're not 485 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 5: able to, I guess, sacrifice your piece. 486 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: I know this happens from personal experience. When I was 487 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: an undergrad, I had a group of friends and I'm 488 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: still friends with some of them, and some of them 489 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: I'm not. I mean, it's not there's no bad blood 490 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: or anything like that. We just you know, grew apart. 491 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: But then when I was in grad school, I had 492 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: one of those friends find me and reach out, like 493 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 2: I hadn't talked to them in five six years, and 494 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: they were like, hey, how are you? And I was like, 495 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: I'm good, Yo, how have you been? And then they said, 496 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: you know, I've really been feeling really bad about the 497 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 2: way our friendship ended. And I'm like, I don't know 498 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 2: what they're talking about because I don't remember wow. And 499 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: I told them I can't remember any I can't remember 500 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 2: what happened. I just remember us kind of not talking anymore. 501 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 2: But there was no like ill will, There was no 502 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: hard feelings. I did not hate them or not like them. 503 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: I didn't even know really myself what happened. It just 504 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: felt like we just grew apart. 505 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: I've definitely been on the other end of that, on 506 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: the other end of the STA, you know. So we 507 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: told the story about a less casual relationship, but one 508 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: of my big friendships we had a falling out and 509 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: it was just just like Anne and I mean not 510 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: too said. It was the piling up of things left unsaid, right, 511 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 1: It was the weight of a thousand murmurs. So if 512 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: you always get along with somebody, you never sharpen those 513 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: tools to help you navigate conflict. And so when it 514 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: comes along, even if it's tiny, you don't do anything 515 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: about it, and it piles up, and it piles up, 516 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: and it piles up, and then the whole thing just breaks. 517 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: And I think it was not only difficult for the 518 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: two of us, but I think it was difficult for 519 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: all of our friends around us, right because we have 520 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: been this inseparable duo for eight years up until this point, 521 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it was just like 522 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: no more. 523 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 5: Wow. 524 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: And eventually, you know, we use some of these tools 525 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: to get back to a better place, but it was 526 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: not easy. 527 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 3: You know. 528 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 5: We assume that the only pain we experienced from relationships 529 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 5: is romantic relationships, but friendship can also be a real 530 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 5: heavy loss for people too, and there's less of a 531 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 5: space to greet. It's just like, well, that was just 532 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 5: a friend, wasn't your partner, wasn't your husband, wasn't your wife? 533 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 5: But like friends cut deep, they can be just as 534 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 5: close as like our romantic partners. 535 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: We need to start making safe spaces for folks to 536 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 2: grieve their lost friendships. 537 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: The ghost of friendship past, that's what I call. 538 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 2: Them, because it's sad some people have you have these 539 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: friends for years, yeah, and they know everything about you. 540 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 2: They've helped you through really really tough times and so 541 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 2: when the friendship ends, it hurts. 542 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: So we've covered all these different angles of having a friend, 543 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: having conflict with a friend, and then breaking it off 544 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: with a friend. But something we haven't discussed is loneliness 545 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: that you can feel even when you do have friends. 546 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: And this is more likely to happen now, especially with 547 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: all of this increased social distancing. Yeah, I think it's 548 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: been really tough. This is something that none of us 549 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: have ever experienced before. And so even though you know 550 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: we're tapped into social media, everybody's going on ig live 551 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: and everything like that, I mean, it does feel really 552 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: lonely in quarantine. So we asked doctor Franco, what do 553 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: you do? How do you work through loneliness? 554 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 5: When we get into a state of loneliness, we have 555 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 5: two desires. Want is to connect with other people, and 556 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 5: the other is to protect ourselves. By disconnecting from other people, 557 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 5: people become far more threatening than they are when we're 558 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 5: not lonely. 559 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: Oh okay, So it feels like a heavier lift to 560 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 2: reach out to people when you're feeling lonely, and so 561 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: you're less likely to do it. 562 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 5: And so what the research finds is that basically, when 563 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 5: you're lonely, and you interact with people, you're more likely 564 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 5: to assume that they're rejecting you. 565 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: Wow, that's really crazy, your own brain tricking you like that. 566 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,479 Speaker 2: It'd be your own brain. 567 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 5: But the most effective intervention for loneliness has actually been 568 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 5: helping people deal with their thoughts and feelings that come 569 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 5: out of low because once you're able to recognize that 570 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 5: that's your lonely brain speaking, you are able to do 571 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 5: the work of reaching out. And so there's this really 572 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 5: fascinating technique called the third person method. 573 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: The third person method is when you talk to yourself 574 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: in the third person. So I'd say, Zakiya is lonely 575 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: right now, but Zakia is worried about being rejected, And yes, 576 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: that feels both weird and goofy. But what it does 577 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: is generate some psychological distance in my brain. So it 578 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: allows me to kind of distance what I'm going through 579 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: from what my thoughts are and what's beneath my thoughts, 580 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: and you begin to realize, Okay, the thoughts on having 581 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily my reality. 582 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: This was so eye opening because I feel like I 583 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: don't know a lot of stuff about myself, and like, 584 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: how good of a friend I am or how bad 585 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: of a friend I am. And so now I have 586 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: these cues that I can think of when I'm interacting 587 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: with my friends to try and be the best friend 588 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 2: that I can be. 589 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's definitely some great tools in here. You know. 590 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: I pride myself on really cultivating my friends. You do, 591 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, girl, you got to go back 592 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: to the drawing board. 593 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: And based off the stories that you tell me about 594 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 2: when you were a kid, you have not changed like 595 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: you have always been. No, for real, You've always been 596 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: this really great friend that's really in tune with her friends, 597 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: and people just love being around you, and you really 598 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: like to bring people into the fold. 599 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: As you say, But that's not unique to me. A 600 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: lot of what happens in our childhood really influences how 601 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: we make friends as adults. 602 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: Here's ami not too. 603 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 4: The reason that we write about our childhood so much 604 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 4: and how we grew up and how we were in 605 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 4: our family is that actually so much of that informs 606 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 4: the kind of friend that you are to people Like 607 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 4: I come from a family where it's not that we 608 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 4: don't fight. I'm like, we fight, and then like people 609 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 4: don't talk to each other for ten years, you know, 610 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 4: like that is it is, that is the baggage that 611 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 4: I grew up with. When Anne writes about her about 612 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 4: her childhood, it helped me understand so much about where 613 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 4: she was coming from also, and I was like, oh, 614 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 4: now when we relate to each other, I understand that 615 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 4: she comes from people that are deeply loyal. They will 616 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 4: never let you go anywhere, you know, and and there 617 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 4: is like a security in that. But I think that 618 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 4: not you know, giving each other truly the benefit of 619 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 4: like yeah, sure, like we we met ten years ago, 620 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 4: but I was a whole human being when I met Ann, 621 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 4: and I you know, and I was I had a 622 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 4: way that I was then and now the person that 623 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 4: I am today is very much informed by this relationship 624 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 4: that I've had. But it also means that all of 625 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 4: that other baggage is always there underneath. 626 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: You know. 627 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: And that's the thing about friendship. Because now you're about 628 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: to get me on my soapbox. 629 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: You know, yay, let me put it in place, sit. 630 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: It down on the ground for bett, let me step up. 631 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: I think you know, yes, you are this whole person, 632 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: but I think there's some real truth to that saying 633 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: that you are, you know, the company that you keep ye, 634 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: and I can say, you know, since becoming friends with you, 635 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: I have I feel like a lot of my world 636 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: has just blossomed. The things I was like, Oh no, girl, 637 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: that's not my arina. I don't think I can do that. 638 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: You are a dura cell battery in the back. Okay, 639 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: if you say you might want to go to the moon, 640 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: my friend is like, do you have your suit ready? 641 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: Do you have all the things that you need ready? Here? 642 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm here to help you. Do you have your freeze 643 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: drive food? I mean you you bring this such You 644 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: bring such an energy and enthusiasm and care for others 645 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: right that makes you feel almost like you can do anything. 646 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: Which is why I'm out here trying all the crazy 647 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: stuff because I know my friend got my back. 648 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: You know that's because I know my friend can do it. 649 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: And she also brings that energy to me in that 650 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: she comes up with these ideas that she thinks is crazy. 651 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 2: But I'm like, you have to have a certain level 652 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 2: of confidence in yourself and your abilities to eat and 653 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 2: come up with these ideas, and so that inspires me 654 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 2: to have more and more ideas and not say, oh 655 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: that's stupid. Oh that's not your lane. You can't do that. 656 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: And Zakia is like, no, all these lanes are ours and. 657 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: The lanes for everybody. 658 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 2: Yes, And so the enthusiasm that I bring to her 659 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: she also feeds to me as well. So it just 660 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: feels like this, this friendship, this big friendship that we've 661 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: fostered over the last ten plus years, is such a 662 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 2: beautiful thing, and I am so glad that we are here. 663 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: I just want that for everybody. 664 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody should have Azakia. 665 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: No, that's not what I'm talking to you about. I 666 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: mean I want that big friendship for everybody you know. 667 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 2: Yes, And I think if you are out there and 668 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: you are listening to this episode right now, that you 669 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 2: need to make sure that you get on social media 670 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 2: and tag your friends, your besties, the people that you've 671 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 2: been riding with for a little bit or for a 672 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: long time, and so that we can see and we 673 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: can share it on our page. 674 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: Yes, I can't wait to see all the big friendships. 675 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 2: That's it for Lab twenty six, but we have so 676 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 2: much more for you to dig into on our website, 677 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: So go to Dope Labs podcast dot com. 678 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: On our website, you can find a cheat cheat for 679 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: today's lab, along with a ton of other links and 680 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: resources in the show notes. 681 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: And if you want to stay in the know with 682 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: Dope Labs, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter 683 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 2: on our site too. 684 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: Special thanks to our guest expert, doctor Marissa Gfranco. She's 685 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: writing a book called Platonic. You can find out more 686 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: info on her website, Doctor Marissa Gfranco dot com. 687 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 2: Also special thanks to our guest hosts and fellow best 688 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 2: friends Ann Friedman and Ami nati Soa. Their new book, 689 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: Big Friendship, comes out July fourteenth. Go to Big Friendship 690 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: dot com to pre order yours today. 691 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: Yes, also, we love hearing from you. What did you 692 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: think about today's lab? Do you have ideas for future labs? 693 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: Call us at two zero two five six seven seven 694 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 1: zero two eight and let us know. You can find 695 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs podcast tt 696 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: is on Twitter at dr Underscore, t. 697 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 2: S h O, and you can find Zakiya at z 698 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: said So. 699 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: Follow us on Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts. 700 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: Dope Labs is produced by Jenny radalt Mass of WaveRunner. 701 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: Studios, mixing and sound design are by Hannes Brown. Our 702 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: theme music is by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura, with 703 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: additional music by Elijah Lex Harvey. Dope Labs is a 704 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: production of Spotify and Mega Oh Media Group, and it's 705 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: executive produced by us T. T. Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley. 706 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: I want to see was anybody else doing rap squad poses? 707 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 3: You know? 708 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: I want to see what you were doing with your friends. 709 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 2: Yes, from just a few, from just a year, a 710 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 2: few months ago. I love it.