Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories done done?
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up.
Speaker 1: In Sview podcast, I'm Liza Traeger. I'm Kara Klank you
Speaker 1: guys hopefully by now. Episode two eighty six, Get the
Speaker 1: Drill It's SVU episode recaps true crime deep dives and
Speaker 1: interviews with actors and other interesting people.
Speaker 2: Were trust the dollars and I need people to start
Speaker 2: talking about it. I need because people respect. But some
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, how do you choose someone? How
Speaker 2: do you choose guests for your podcast? I go, do
Speaker 2: you even know what I'm doing here? I got a
Speaker 2: lot of investigations or something.
Speaker 1: Someone will be like, my husband plays a waiter with
Speaker 1: no lines. Do you want to talk to him? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what would what would we what would.
Speaker 4: We talk about?
Speaker 2: Honestly, we could find things to talk about. That's our skill.
Speaker 2: That another skill we have that would be able to
Speaker 2: talk to him.
Speaker 1: But we do try to get people that are at
Speaker 1: least in a one meaty scene.
Speaker 2: One meaty scene is but we would take questlove as
Speaker 2: a dead body. That's true.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so that's different that one dead body I
Speaker 1: would take or what well, No, I was just gonna
Speaker 1: say it. Continuing our our constant quest for expertise in
Speaker 1: the field of law and order and the SPU universe,
Speaker 1: we did talk about exhumations on the last episode Bound
Speaker 1: and we did get a ping from our list one
Speaker 1: of our listeners who is a forensic anthropologist, and she said,
Speaker 1: regarding your exhamation question, she goes, I, actually we had
Speaker 1: to apply for a grant to do this work. Here's
Speaker 1: a quick breakdown because we were wondering, like who pays
Speaker 1: for an exhormation? Like is it the family? Is it
Speaker 1: the cops? Like is it the courts? Like who pays
Speaker 1: for that? How does that get done? She said? Processes
Speaker 1: vary by state and district. Cemeteries are typically involved and
Speaker 1: compensated for equipment. Petitions go through attorneys at the request
Speaker 1: of the EMMY, police, et cetera. For cold cases, grants
Speaker 1: can be applied for or the requesting police department EMY
Speaker 1: can cover the costs. Families can sometimes pay depending on
Speaker 1: local laws, but they would pay for everything. Exhamations are
Speaker 1: usually only approved for unexplained, sudden, violent, or suspicious deaths,
Speaker 1: so you can't like exzoom your grandma that like just
Speaker 1: past dinner sleep. Cost Wise, full service companies legal through
Speaker 1: actual exclamation run about ten thousand per case, not including
Speaker 1: scientific analysis. Exhamation alone typically ranges five k to ten k,
Speaker 1: cheaper than I thought. To be honest, I thought a
Speaker 1: government service they would be patting that shit. I thought
Speaker 1: it was gonna be like thirty K to take a
Speaker 1: body out of the ground, and it's five to ten
Speaker 1: k just to get the body out of the ground,
Speaker 1: usually dependent on the digging vendor. Love this information. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much to our extremely talented listener who gave
Speaker 1: us all the information about exhamations.
Speaker 2: That is incredible. And then I had a message that
Speaker 2: I'm not finding but the old woman that killed everyone,
Speaker 2: the like the one the from bound that at the
Speaker 2: same episode, someone knows someone that lived in that house afterwards,
Speaker 2: Dorothea or Dorothea's house. Yeah yeah, So whoa kind of
Speaker 2: thrilling or not or distasting yeah yeah, or Sam Dam
Speaker 2: dam or scary as fuck.
Speaker 1: I mean, our listeners are so connected. People are like
Speaker 1: I've vacation, I've I've met the Murdochs down in South Carolina.
Speaker 1: Like when we talk about stuff, everyone's like, I actually
Speaker 1: know the guy who had too many babies, gave too
Speaker 1: much sperm and had too many babies, Like we like,
Speaker 1: you know you guys never cease to amaze a sou
Speaker 1: Please keep the personal connections coming, Kara.
Speaker 2: I was at like a big dinner yesterday, probably like
Speaker 2: you know, an event type thing, and a friend at
Speaker 2: the other end of the table goes, wait, who's poking
Speaker 2: holes in condoms? And I'm like John Stamo's in SVU,
Speaker 2: Like that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Sorry, they just overheard you. Yeah. I just never take
Speaker 1: a day off, you know what I mean, No day's off.
Speaker 2: Or like when people see me in Soul Cycle and
Speaker 2: I'm in an SVU sweatshirt, I'm like, I do I live,
Speaker 2: I walk the walk.
Speaker 1: I walk the talk. I do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I truly do it. No.
Speaker 1: I'm always talking about parenting issues with people and I'm like,
Speaker 1: and you know what can happen? And people are like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's dark. I go you know you know who you
Speaker 1: were talking to, Like, yeah, this is what I'm researching
Speaker 1: and reading all day. Wait what are you gonna?
Speaker 2: What's the theme for Oscar's birthday? What is he asking for?
Speaker 2: What does he want?
Speaker 1: So his birthday is today, as I mean as not
Speaker 1: the day we're recording this, but the day this is
Speaker 1: coming out. Thank you, So happy birthday, Oscar. Everybody drop
Speaker 1: a happy birthday Oscar comment and I will show them
Speaker 1: to him.
Speaker 2: No, but he.
Speaker 1: You know, he's still on his Butterflies Unicorns kick. He's
Speaker 1: getting a new pink and purple bike. I got him
Speaker 1: a little butterfly bell for it and a little cute helmet.
Speaker 1: He's getting some more Gabby's dollhouse stuff to add to
Speaker 1: the dollhouse that you gave him for his birthday a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. He still needs a couple of
Speaker 1: rooms for that, cause you know, you can't just buy
Speaker 1: the dollhouse comes with a couple of rooms, but you
Speaker 1: got to buy the rest of the rooms. You know,
Speaker 1: That's how these things work. Get them hooked. He's getting
Speaker 1: like a couple of Yodo cards all this stuff. He's
Speaker 1: not actually having a birthday party. We're going to Knotsberry
Speaker 1: Farm and he's really excited. And they've never been cute
Speaker 1: because you know, we've been doing experiences over parties. So
Speaker 1: we're doing a little we're doing a little note and
Speaker 1: he'll bring cupcakes to school and everything, and he really
Speaker 1: wants me to get a goodie bag. But the goodie
Speaker 1: bags are just literally plastic trash.
Speaker 2: But you know what, my sister would do one big thing,
Speaker 2: like why don't you You can get kids like a journal
Speaker 2: and a pen, right, we.
Speaker 1: Did for rosies a few years ago. We got them
Speaker 1: little clipboards, and we gave with coloring pages, and we
Speaker 1: gave them crayons. I have to I gotta get on that.
Speaker 1: It's like it's it's very coming up.
Speaker 2: So what about those things that's like a mitt with
Speaker 2: the velcro and you can throw the ball? Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: those are cute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there has to be.
Speaker 2: Something that's also not expensive but actually like a one
Speaker 2: big usable thing, because I get what you mean.
Speaker 1: You don't want a bag of trash, a bag of trash.
Speaker 1: And then it's like times eighteen. It's like even if
Speaker 1: I find something like, you know, cute, for like ten dollars,
Speaker 1: its like times eighteen, I'm spending two hundred bucks on
Speaker 1: these goodie bags.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, it's just like you know, I
Speaker 2: thought goodie bags would have ended, like, I can't believe
Speaker 2: goodie bag culture.
Speaker 1: Is no if God culture is all live and well.
Speaker 1: I thought we all agreed to stop, and it's alive
Speaker 1: and well, like people are doing it and I got
Speaker 1: something to say.
Speaker 2: You got something bad about bags? But my sister always
Speaker 2: at such good party, isn't she just always try to
Speaker 2: do one big gift. But she also like in her house,
Speaker 2: because we all have shopping addictions and stuff, she had
Speaker 2: like a gift drawer, so like if you needed a
Speaker 2: last minute gift, you could just go to this closet
Speaker 2: and it has gifts.
Speaker 1: My friend's mom had that, and I was always like,
Speaker 1: that's so luxurious. You know, what is this good or bad?
Speaker 1: I think this was cute.
Speaker 2: Like the kids like and they spend as much money
Speaker 2: as the kid is turning. Oh so if everyone just
Speaker 2: brings seven dollars for the seven year old's party, and
Speaker 2: then everyone then it's like, you know, fifteen kids come
Speaker 2: and then he can and then here she can go
Speaker 2: buy whatever he wants. Yeah, yeah, that's a great.
Speaker 1: I don't know if we say no gifts, I will
Speaker 1: say I will say no gifts is getting more popular.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, Yes, but then everyone's still gonna
Speaker 2: bring a gift. There's no way I'm gonna come to
Speaker 2: a kids party and not bring a gift. There's just
Speaker 2: no way in hell the way. There's no way in
Speaker 2: hell do books do a there's no that is actually
Speaker 2: specif against your culture. And I can't believe I brought
Speaker 2: it up for a child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well now I'm want to redd it. Now I'm
Speaker 1: on to redd it at all party favorite bags that
Speaker 1: aren't plastic jumps, so I'll be down this rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: Or like the but the blind box gifts aren't cheap,
Speaker 2: like do you know? Like that's because I was like,
Speaker 2: those are like surprise things are so fun. But yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. I love stickers, but that's
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's just me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, stickers and temporary tattoos are really big, so maybe
Speaker 1: I'll I'll look into that.
Speaker 2: But I have a tale.
Speaker 1: I have a story. Okay, what's the tale?
Speaker 2: So I go into soul cycle like I do, and
Speaker 2: it's Sunday and a girl is on the verge of
Speaker 2: tears like one of my young you know, one of
Speaker 2: my young friends, and I go, what's going on? She's
Speaker 2: talking too she's in distress. She goes, I just got scammed.
Speaker 2: I tried to get Moona tickets. I spent four hundred
Speaker 2: dollars and it's a fake ticket.
Speaker 1: Do I try?
Speaker 2: I go? I know them, I go, I bet I
Speaker 2: can get you a ticket. And so I I text
Speaker 2: Naomi from Muna, which is insane of me because they're
Speaker 2: clearly getting ready for a show. Like Also, I have
Speaker 2: to preface. I had to margaritas in a shot before
Speaker 2: class on a net, so I'm sorry. I forgot to wait.
Speaker 2: What well, because it was like a warm ass day
Speaker 2: and I went to the park to read.
Speaker 1: It was a Sunday.
Speaker 2: I went to the park to read, and then I
Speaker 2: went to a bar in my neighborhood for a meal
Speaker 2: and it was two to five, was a happy hours
Speaker 2: dollar fifty East Coast oysters. So I had oysters, a
Speaker 2: couple of margarita's. I'm friends with the bartender. I got
Speaker 2: a free a free shot. Yeah. And then I went
Speaker 2: to soul Cycle. So I was also feeling loose. I
Speaker 2: don't know if what I did is embarrassing. But then
Speaker 2: I texted Kate Berlant and yeah, they set it up.
Speaker 2: So I brought I brought this person to Muna and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have gone, which is crazy because I love
Speaker 2: Muna and it was electric. Anyone that I was thinking
Speaker 2: of going in the fall on their tour, you have
Speaker 2: to go. The new album is so good. They're such
Speaker 2: good performers. It's also like the sexiest tattest show. I
Speaker 2: was like, Kate, are you just like horny every show?
Speaker 2: Like it's just like such a sexual show. The lighting's incredible.
Speaker 2: There's such good performers. They played the whole album and
Speaker 2: then they played like five other songs and it was incredible.
Speaker 1: It was incredible, and it's weird. I wouldn't have gone.
Speaker 1: Do you know, are you friends with this girl from
Speaker 1: Soul Cycle or it's like a just like an acquaintance
Speaker 1: or acquaintance. So it was weird of course. And yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like twenty four. She's a very nice thing to do.
Speaker 2: You know me with a couple margerite, I will buy
Speaker 2: all the costumes for Shrek, like I'll do whatever, like
Speaker 2: if you catch me I had me a little tipsy,
Speaker 2: I'll set it up. But then I think to the matter,
Speaker 2: like then I of course, I'm like, was it weird?
Speaker 2: Did I do something weird, did I bring like a
Speaker 2: child to this show? Like should I have just let her?
Speaker 2: Like should I have let her barrow her own friend
Speaker 2: and I go separate? But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: like who cares? And it was fun.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's so great. It's like I went into soil
Speaker 1: Cycle and this girl at so Cycle got me and
Speaker 1: like the honestly, probably just makes you feel better about
Speaker 1: losing four hundred fucking bucks, you know, yeau, we are
Speaker 1: in the age of the damn scam. So yeah, we
Speaker 1: met for a margarita, like it was a crazy thing.
Speaker 2: And then I questioned if like what I did was
Speaker 2: like annoying and weird, should I send them something?
Speaker 1: But I'm glad I saw the concert. I think it's great.
Speaker 1: I just can't believe I'm evening everything. Listen, have I
Speaker 1: worked out after a happy hour? Absolutely not since I
Speaker 1: was twenty six, probably, Like no, I impressed myself daily.
Speaker 2: Oh you don't know what stand. I impressed myself constantly,
Speaker 2: Like because listen, when you know, when the weather hits
Speaker 2: in New York, there's nothing like it not turning down.
Speaker 1: I'm having a midday drink. But you also got to
Speaker 1: get to the gym. And stay healthy, you know.
Speaker 2: And then I ended up at Moona that night like
Speaker 2: I was just gonna clean. I'm just gonna have a
Speaker 2: chill Sunday. It was actually like quite exhausted. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, I did spots till late at night. But
Speaker 2: I woke up this morning and I wasn't feeling I'll
Speaker 2: be on it. I wasn't doing well. But then I
Speaker 2: opened my laptop to watch the mes views for our
Speaker 2: profession and I look at my screen. Is me blacked
Speaker 2: out drunk signing up for three food bank shifts for June.
Speaker 1: Just like, no, I think it's good. I think it's good.
Speaker 1: Of course you're working out, you're drunk giving to charity
Speaker 1: or donating your time to charity. You're drunk giving helping
Speaker 1: people that have been scammed. I mean, as far as
Speaker 1: I'm concerned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm such a fun drunk, like I really am.
Speaker 1: I think knock on wood.
Speaker 2: I really don't want it to ever shift, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to get too cocky. But then so
Speaker 2: after I went to an event yesterday. It was supposed
Speaker 2: to be chill, but then me and two other girls
Speaker 2: were like, let's just grab one more, and it's New York.
Speaker 2: So the patios aren't real, and it was like in
Speaker 2: the streets and it was like covered like the plastic horses,
Speaker 2: and the other two girls didn't want to sit there,
Speaker 2: and I went, Okay, you guys are ring fucking annoying.
Speaker 2: What because it's plastic, Like, let's fucking sit outside. A
Speaker 2: garbage truck comes immediately immediately, so now it's like we
Speaker 2: are sitting at the table as and the garbage truck
Speaker 2: had work to do, so it was like like five minutes.
Speaker 2: It was five minutes in our faces. Even the server
Speaker 2: was like, wow, what a nightmare. I'm like yeah. But
Speaker 2: then I'm amazing now that I'm obsessed with this bar
Speaker 2: in my you know, I've had my coffee shop, and
Speaker 2: now that I found this bar, it's open till four,
Speaker 2: kitchen till four. What yeah?
Speaker 1: Ah, that's that would have really solved am And then
Speaker 1: I started talking to a guy next to me, and
Speaker 1: he works at this other spot that I go to.
Speaker 2: So I'm about to even hit a new level in
Speaker 2: my neighborhood. Like yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for this summer.
Speaker 2: I'm like I'm pumped.
Speaker 1: And if you're on, if you're on the Upper West Side.
Speaker 1: French Roast still open, but not twenty four hours anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I went to the selk. I mean
Speaker 2: I've had Oh my god, I can't believe I didn't
Speaker 2: say this. I walked past Dexter Resurrection shooting in the
Speaker 2: streets of New York got up. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was stand ins.
Speaker 2: It was fucking stand ins, like they were just setting
Speaker 2: up lighting and the PA is kept like, keep it moving,
Speaker 2: keep it moving, and I kept doing circ I like
Speaker 2: wouldn't leave, and then a PA was like.
Speaker 1: You guys, can you just please you have to.
Speaker 2: Move, and I go, We're obsessed, get over it, Like
Speaker 2: what do you want from us?
Speaker 1: It's a fandom bitch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, but yeah, it was stand ins, but it
Speaker 2: was I just lost my fucking mind.
Speaker 1: Hold on, I was with people.
Speaker 2: I'll show you a photo of my face, me reacting
Speaker 2: to seeing to seeing it like this is my true
Speaker 2: natural like.
Speaker 1: Bliss, blissful, like so happy, that's so good. And it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, you know the business, like you know that.
Speaker 1: That poor PA is like, please, I'm gonna get fired
Speaker 1: if I don't get you guys off the cot upset.
Speaker 2: I know, but that's the risk you take shooting in
Speaker 2: the streets of New York. Like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: you want from us. I'm wearing my Dexter Morgan bracelet
Speaker 2: every day of my life. Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe if I showed him my bracelet, you'd understand. But
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you could have seen. You could
Speaker 1: have run into our friend of the pod Kadi or off.
Speaker 2: No, I know, but I saw the scene. I saw
Speaker 2: the stand ins. I knew it wasn't I know. I
Speaker 2: I was gonna send her the photo. Maybe she'll let
Speaker 2: me do a set visit. Oh, I should hit her up.
Speaker 2: I'll hit her because if there's I mean, I know
Speaker 2: they're shooting because I've been begging my team for an audition.
Speaker 2: Nothing's come through yet, but you know. But it was
Speaker 2: like the most New York day. So I had a
Speaker 2: doctor's appointment. Then I went down to Hoff Studios. They
Speaker 2: produced my special and they acquired the Vogue Adria with
Speaker 2: Connor's story on the cover for me, So I went
Speaker 2: and picked that up. Wow. Then I went to a
Speaker 2: diner read a book. Then I had a dentist appointment.
Speaker 2: Then I walked to a six o'clo show I had
Speaker 2: at a private club for whatever. But before that, I
Speaker 2: went to the Chelsea high Line or the Yeah, the
Speaker 2: high Line did a show. Then me and another comic
Speaker 2: we walked to Little Island watched the sunset. Then we
Speaker 2: walked to Flat Iron he had a spot. Then we
Speaker 2: met three other comics, and then we walked to the Selka.
Speaker 1: That's when I saw Dexter.
Speaker 2: Then we had ice cream on a bench and I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm gonna have the best summer of my life,
Speaker 2: like so wholesome.
Speaker 1: And then and then of course blackouts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just feeling And I finished two more gay
Speaker 2: hockey books. So I'm starting my new book today.
Speaker 1: Everybody's been asking in the comments for you to name
Speaker 1: these books that you're reading, these all your gay hockey books.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the author is Serena Bowen. Serena Bowen s
Speaker 2: A R I n A Bowen, like the guy that
Speaker 2: we know as Yeah, I told you I forgot what
Speaker 2: bad Bunny was. And I was like Benito, you know Benito,
Speaker 2: and my brain is so fried.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So and she this bitch is writing NonStop and actually
Speaker 2: the categories like you can go, there's hockey guys a
Speaker 2: male male books, and then she has a category that's
Speaker 2: like for fans of heated rivalry. So the series is
Speaker 2: like the new Guy, I'm your guy, the last guy
Speaker 2: on Earth, my kind of guy. Okay, So that those
Speaker 2: are the four I've just read, and then it seems
Speaker 2: like there's more. There's more. I might watch Goodbybe. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to read a few ups. I'm I have some
Speaker 2: other categories and genres that I'd like to get into. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we'll see if we'll see if I can get
Speaker 2: through this James Baldwin book. But I have some murder books. Oh,
Speaker 2: I also bought a new book. Yeah, I went to
Speaker 2: Risolute while I killed time before my dentist.
Speaker 1: And while we are promoting books, I just want to
Speaker 1: shout out a couple of friends books that are coming
Speaker 1: out this summer that it's so in the book business,
Speaker 1: it is like so important to pre order shit first
Speaker 1: of all for you it feels like when it comes,
Speaker 1: it feels like it's free, right because you ordered it
Speaker 1: in May and then it comes in July or August.
Speaker 1: So the first one is our mutual great friend Alison
Speaker 1: Labee has a book called I'm a lot. We've already
Speaker 1: talked about it, I think, but just another shout out
Speaker 1: that it's coming out in July, pre order it now.
Speaker 1: And then the second one is The Terrible Horrible, no good,
Speaker 1: very Bad Gay by Elliott Glazer. He's a soer Wish
Speaker 1: guy and he has a book coming out in August,
Speaker 1: so go and you can pre order those on you know,
Speaker 1: at local like if you just look up his book title,
Speaker 1: it takes you to the Simon and Schuster page if
Speaker 1: you can't order it on Amazon, but they also have
Speaker 1: it at Books a Million and other like local bookshops
Speaker 1: and stuff where you can get stuff. And definitely want
Speaker 1: to promote local bookshops. I think I mentioned on the
Speaker 1: podcast recently that I bought Yesteryear on Amazon, and that
Speaker 1: is because I needed to read it very quickly, and
Speaker 1: it's been hard to find it at some of the bookstores.
Speaker 1: So I want everyone to I do support local bookstores
Speaker 1: and that Barnes.
Speaker 2: And Noble is a small town bookstore now at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's fine.
Speaker 2: So also, so I'm still on this girl's site, and
Speaker 2: now you've you shouldn't have brought me here because now
Speaker 2: I see these two guys holding a basketball ones I'm
Speaker 2: glad like. And now there's two other hockey. I just
Speaker 2: can't believe I'm reading so much about hockey. There's only
Speaker 2: so many storylines, you know, but you know, it's interesting,
Speaker 2: It's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1: This translates to, like you actually going to see professional hockey.
Speaker 2: I would go to the women. It was just all
Speaker 2: sold out by the time. But yeah, I'm gonna definitely
Speaker 2: go to hockey. Yeah, and these minorly, Yeah, I'd like
Speaker 2: to see it live. I think it's fun to watch.
Speaker 2: It's fast, That's what I like about it. But I
Speaker 2: bought a Susan Sontag book, and then I bought a
Speaker 2: book that's like a guy that couldn't solve a crime
Speaker 2: and it's thirty years later and he's trying to, you know,
Speaker 2: up my alley. And then maybe, oh, I have one
Speaker 2: straight book.
Speaker 1: I you know, I blackout drank. I mean I black
Speaker 1: out read as well.
Speaker 2: So I woke up with a book in my bed
Speaker 2: and it's like a girl and guy fall in love
Speaker 2: and they work at a vibrator factory or something like that. Okay,
Speaker 2: but someone was like trying to be like, oh, like,
Speaker 2: what could even happen like who care?
Speaker 1: Like somebody whatever I think. I think this person like
Speaker 1: surriled me up.
Speaker 2: He's a toxic straight But like it's like, what could
Speaker 2: even happen to these guys?
Speaker 1: Like what's so? I go, Well, they can't come out.
Speaker 2: They're in a masculine place, everyone's homophobic, their families won't
Speaker 2: speak to I'm like, it's layered as fuck. Two of
Speaker 2: them get robbed, like this is the thing, Like Serena
Speaker 2: is great, but they're just not as good as.
Speaker 1: Cat Sebastian and Rachel read you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like sometimes there's sentences where I'm like, this is humiliating,
Speaker 2: Like when people are like can I see that book,
Speaker 2: I'm like, absolutely not.
Speaker 1: You can't even look at one page of this book. Look,
Speaker 1: I think we can have of reading that is going
Speaker 1: to like better us intellectually and reading that it's just fun.
Speaker 2: I think we can hold both things. But they happen
Speaker 2: at the same time. Because there's a quote in one
Speaker 2: of these that I is my new mantra, Like my
Speaker 2: new mantra, that's all I say. Now, it's like awesome,
Speaker 2: what is it? It's there's nowhere you have to be
Speaker 2: right now. But right here. Oh, and it's helped me
Speaker 2: settle because the city is alive. There's so much to do,
Speaker 2: so much to read, so much to see, and sometimes
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, what do I do?
Speaker 1: And then it's like, actually, don't have to be anywhere.
Speaker 2: I don't have to do anything, and I could just
Speaker 2: sit here and have a beer and like whatever.
Speaker 1: So I've just been enjoying that in terms of my vibe.
Speaker 2: And so that's great.
Speaker 1: That's a great way to realize we all have to
Speaker 1: like slow down and just be where you are sometimes
Speaker 1: unless you hate where you are, in which case you
Speaker 1: can always get out of it. Nothing's permanent, you know.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite quote, Nothing's permanent. I speaking of what
Speaker 1: like full circle to what we talked about at the
Speaker 1: beginning of this episode. Somebody just wrote us and said,
Speaker 1: I'm listening to Bound and the hospital in New Jersey
Speaker 1: that you're talking about is where I gave birth. So
Speaker 1: people are giving birth at evil nurse hospitals and you
Speaker 1: guys have all the boots on the ground info for us. Oh,
Speaker 1: I went camping with my daughter this this weekend. It
Speaker 1: was so set to be so much more comfortable than
Speaker 1: last year. And then my friends lent me an air
Speaker 1: mattress that had a slow leak, so like, I was
Speaker 1: in a taco every morning of with Rosie on top
Speaker 1: of me, which was but she had a blast. It
Speaker 1: was great. And then Monday night I did live band
Speaker 1: karaoke and I can't say enough about live band KaraOK.
Speaker 2: I just love it.
Speaker 1: They have less options, but I think the performances are
Speaker 1: more meaningful.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Also, one of my parents' stray cats is pregnant. Oh no,
Speaker 1: your parents are about to be grandparents.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite stressful, but you know, they have an
Speaker 2: old neighbor friend that's helping. But my niece was there
Speaker 2: for a little bit and built a house for them
Speaker 2: that's waterproof for the cats.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's better than all of us. That's an incredibly
Speaker 1: young woman at least.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just so cool.
Speaker 2: I was bragging about her yesterday at the table. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, wait, is she a junior, honey?
Speaker 1: Like I know, I don't know. Well, I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, at some point, you're going to go back
Speaker 1: to my alma mater for graduation and that shit's fun.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're right, it's really fun. It's like
Speaker 1: a tense city a big playing field of tents. Everybody
Speaker 1: gets tense with their friends and then it's just like
Speaker 1: drinking and fun.
Speaker 2: I learned how to say graduation and Russian scholow.
Speaker 1: I just looked. That was one of my vocab words
Speaker 1: for the week. Graduation. It's perfect. It's that it's that
Speaker 1: time of year, and congratulations to everybody graduating or you know,
Speaker 1: having a graduate go through the education system.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I got into a fight at my
Speaker 2: coffee shop. I'm sitting and these two guys are talking
Speaker 2: about AI and I just can't and I just can't.
Speaker 2: I just I had enough. So I go, you, guys,
Speaker 2: it's stupid. It doesn't have to happen, like you shouldn't
Speaker 2: be using it. And I kind of go off, and
Speaker 2: he goes, you don't get No, we're talking about research.
Speaker 2: I go, especially for research. I go, it's not accurate.
Speaker 2: It's not accurate information. It's taking all information. Some of
Speaker 2: it's not accurate. They're forcing it upon us. You can't
Speaker 2: opt out, I'm like. And then they're like, I'm like,
Speaker 2: people are getting fired. They're like, well, that's not real,
Speaker 2: that's this and that, And then I finally went and
Speaker 2: this was my fault of course, like I should have
Speaker 2: been more composed.
Speaker 1: There always gets to be this part in the argument
Speaker 1: where you're like, and then I said something crazy.
Speaker 2: I went, well that and I go, well, that's because
Speaker 2: you're losers and nerds. And then the guy went, well,
Speaker 2: you're really not elegant listening into a conversation and butting in,
Speaker 2: and I went, honey, I'm not here trying to be elegant,
Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, I can tell, and then I
Speaker 2: went whatever.
Speaker 1: And then we were like sitting and the what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And then they were they were they felt weird, and
Speaker 2: I could tell I go, you guys, it's fine, you
Speaker 2: can continue talking.
Speaker 1: Everything is normal. I don't feel weird about this.
Speaker 2: And so then we sat next to each other for
Speaker 2: another probably ten fifteen minutes as they ate their banana bread.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, the fucking all these graduation speeches. Yeah,
Speaker 1: wherever the kids are rebelling and booing, these speeches about Ai.
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone over the weekend who this
Speaker 1: is my friend and her husband that own she's a
Speaker 1: fashion designer and he works for her and they are
Speaker 1: a small business. And he was like going on about
Speaker 1: how AI is so amazing, and it built this It
Speaker 1: built this app for him that's customized to their business,
Speaker 1: that does the work that it takes him a week
Speaker 1: to do in like a day, and I was like yeah,
Speaker 1: and like pretty soon you're like your wife can replace you,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I was kind of trying to like
Speaker 1: I don't want to like start a fight at like
Speaker 1: a Scouts camping trip, but I was definitely like doing
Speaker 1: digs where I was like, yeah, it just kind of sucks,
Speaker 1: like in my line of work that like people are
Speaker 1: like not getting copywriting jobs or voiceover jobs or jobs
Speaker 1: that like used to be sort of like middle class
Speaker 1: entertainment jobs because computers are gonna do them. And they're like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah for that. We don't agree with AI. Like
Speaker 1: everybody like is like I have a reason why I
Speaker 1: need it, but like, you know, well, I.
Speaker 2: At my doctor's appointment, she goes, hey, so we're using
Speaker 2: a new thing where AI summarizes everything we talk about
Speaker 2: and I go no, I go absolutely not, and she goes, Okay,
Speaker 2: I guess I'll type it in manually, and I go,
Speaker 2: you will, Yeah, are you out of your fucking mind?
Speaker 2: I guess they have. Maybe I'm the horn they baby.
Speaker 2: I posted about my fight at the coffee shop, and
Speaker 2: obviously the people that follow me were on my side,
Speaker 2: thank you very much, and the briastes as well. After
Speaker 2: he left, I go, I'm so sorry, and they're like,
Speaker 2: he's still they still tipped. It's fine. I go, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to like fight at your shop. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: we hate them and they were losers, and I go great.
Speaker 2: They yeah, the when I get started on AI, you know,
Speaker 2: I really can't stop.
Speaker 1: Yah, yeah, yeah, no, I know. Oh no, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say. They did a storyline on the pit that
Speaker 1: was sort of meant to like they have there's like
Speaker 1: a new resident head resident comes in and he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna all use this AI software, and everybody's kind
Speaker 1: of like all right, whatever, and then the computers go
Speaker 1: down in the whole er for hours in a cyber attack,
Speaker 1: and they have to go back to literally paper and
Speaker 1: running things manually. And I think they're definitely making a
Speaker 1: comment of like, well, it used to be here, which
Speaker 1: is super crazy like the old way, but the new
Speaker 1: way is also too reliant on a lot of things.
Speaker 2: So I don't want AI to have my medical shit
Speaker 2: are you out of your mind? Why are we trusting
Speaker 2: the most evil people on the planet? Yeah, with everything sensitive? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we all of our information in the episode. I'm obviously Yeah,
Speaker 2: we gotta start, We gotta start. This is a This
Speaker 2: is a fucking banger of an episode. Don't go anywhere
Speaker 2: as usual, we're doing extra fun stuff on Patreon.
Speaker 1: A lot of you were into our Twilight recap. There's
Speaker 1: more where that came from. Come uh join us over
Speaker 1: at patreon dot com. Slash that's messed up. We've got
Speaker 1: merch uh, promo codes, tourdates for Lisa, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: Is that that's messed up live dot com. So you
Speaker 1: can go over there and yeah, enjoy and let's get started.
Speaker 2: Oh hello, Oh we already did that. We're here with
Speaker 2: the episode. We are doing Venom Today, Season seven, episode eighteen,
Speaker 2: March twenty eighth, two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: So that's cool. A classic, a scary one we've been
Speaker 1: waiting before. William Lewis, this was one of my scariest
Speaker 1: got like Darius was a scary scary man for me
Speaker 1: one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And you guys, it is like part of two episodes
Speaker 2: seasons apart, but we're not doing it until we get ludicrous.
Speaker 2: So if you want to know what happens, like, you
Speaker 2: can go watch it. But it's called school what is
Speaker 2: it called scorch screwed, screwed, screwed.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you want to hear the second half,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to pull help us, help us
Speaker 1: get Ludacris start. Are scouring your contacts because peoples.
Speaker 2: So someone messaged me that they know Corey Stole or
Speaker 2: Stole's wife and that they sent her the podcast to
Speaker 2: listen to. And I go and she got a kick
Speaker 2: out of it. I'm like, yeah, I mean she knows
Speaker 2: her husband's hot, you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So someone's got to know Ludacrous's wife or something.
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, like where's the I've gotten Taco Bell
Speaker 2: gift cards from someone that's listened. If you're still listening,
Speaker 2: thank you. Like it's one day, we'll get him. One day.
Speaker 2: We're mafesting it and he's a virgo. It would be
Speaker 2: so powerful, it would be too powerful. Maybe maybe that's
Speaker 2: why he's not doing it. He knows. So we're at
Speaker 2: venom like a snake. So some wise guys are driving.
Speaker 2: Why did I write that they're cops, but in the
Speaker 2: beginning I thought they were wise guys.
Speaker 1: It's night.
Speaker 2: They're talking about their wives, Classic New York, and one
Speaker 2: of them is very pro sex and is like, get
Speaker 2: your wife new batteries for her vibrator and she'll stay longer.
Speaker 2: But it's like, wouldn't she leave? Like I don't get that.
Speaker 2: I don't really get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, she'll stay married if she's happy with you.
Speaker 1: But in two thousand and six and you're married to
Speaker 1: a cop, maybe that's there's Culturally they don't they won't
Speaker 1: get divorced if she's like coming with a vibrator once
Speaker 1: a week or something. I don't know, But then she
Speaker 1: wouldn't get the batteries.
Speaker 2: Like this guy is doing the errands of now he's
Speaker 2: gonna go get the batteries. Yeah, okay, like it's just crazy. Sure,
Speaker 2: so he says bigger and better than you, and then
Speaker 2: the other guy's like shut up. And then and then
Speaker 2: the other guy goes, I'm just tugging your tea bag.
Speaker 2: So this is obviously a romance novel. Beginning, I did
Speaker 2: not clock I'm just tugging your tea bag. I just
Speaker 2: watched the episode and I did not even hear that.
Speaker 2: Oh everywhere I go. Now I'm like, well, this would
Speaker 2: be ripe for a romance now every dynamic. But these
Speaker 2: guys have obviously fucked and it's clear. So but they're
Speaker 2: seeing it everywhere. Now the cops see something.
Speaker 1: Is he black?
Speaker 2: Yes, so it's a black man in a hoodie, but
Speaker 2: he is digging in the middle of the night, so
Speaker 2: it is on savory for sure. But they come out
Speaker 2: and the guy's like, I'm not doing anything illegal, and
Speaker 2: they're like, bro, you're digging dirt in the middle of
Speaker 2: the night, so like, what are you talking about? And
Speaker 2: then one of them just like throws them against the
Speaker 2: fence yells, you know, the drill, his hoodie falls. I
Speaker 2: can't tell if we're supposed to know who it is
Speaker 2: or I just know because I know. But Benson comes
Speaker 2: to bail this person out and it is Ken Finn's son.
Speaker 1: So then Benson comes.
Speaker 2: He's bloody in the face, and then Benson is blonde,
Speaker 2: honey highlight vibes, and he thinks her for coming and says,
Speaker 2: I didn't know who else to call, and she's like,
Speaker 2: what about your father, Finn? And he says, calling his
Speaker 2: dad was not an option. She yells, you are being
Speaker 2: charged with drunken, disorderly, resisting arrest, and assaulting an officer,
Speaker 2: and they're claiming that you hit him with a shovel.
Speaker 1: All of this is obviously lies. We saw it.
Speaker 2: He lost his footing. Well we didn't see this, but
Speaker 2: I'll testify he lost his footing and he fell and
Speaker 2: the other one arrested him and then started beating him,
Speaker 2: wailing on him with a flashlight. He says he was
Speaker 2: not drunk, he only had a couple drinks, but he
Speaker 2: did have a shovel. So there's that, and she would
Speaker 2: like to know why, and he gets up. Will you
Speaker 2: know my dad? A tradition in our family is if
Speaker 2: you get a new car, he'll buy you a shovel
Speaker 2: for the car to keep in your trunk.
Speaker 1: For shoveling out snow and stuff.
Speaker 2: You just never know when you'll be still never nowhere,
Speaker 2: You just never know. So like it's not a full
Speaker 2: size shovel, but it's like he gets everyone a shovel immediately.
Speaker 1: Wow, worth a new car. I would say, get that shovel.
Speaker 1: I mean that's hilarious. That's like, yeah, I've never seen
Speaker 1: It's like that's not a thing I think of when
Speaker 1: I like open someone's trunk, like, oh, you have a shovel.
Speaker 2: Maybe one of those scrapers, but my dad's whatever. So
Speaker 2: she needs to know why he had the shovel. He
Speaker 2: gets up and walks towards the bars of the person
Speaker 2: or jail holding.
Speaker 1: Cell whatever, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Benson starts to walk out because he's not cooperating, but
Speaker 2: so he realizes he needs to talk or has one
Speaker 2: connection to help is walking out the door, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I was looking for something a body. So Benson looks
Speaker 2: stunned and we go into the credits. I don't like
Speaker 2: these highlights on her. I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is probably one of my least favorite looks.
Speaker 2: And this is funny. She's pregnant.
Speaker 1: I don't think she's pregnant in season seven.
Speaker 2: I'm almost positive. I have no idea, But okay, you
Speaker 2: don't like the honey, I don't, which is rude.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever said a rude thing about
Speaker 1: her hair. I think it's the bloe she's ever been.
Speaker 1: It's quite blonde, and I do like her with a
Speaker 1: little bit more of a darker I like her care.
Speaker 2: I like when they're like Bolliage, when she has like
Speaker 2: soft curls and she has some highlights on the bottom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I like her with a darker root. M
Speaker 1: that's fair and I think that's more modern. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if two thousand and six was like happening. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson red and white.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: My hairstylist was just telling me the other day that
Speaker 1: it's back that she goes. People are just asking for
Speaker 1: these hair chunks, and I keep going, oh, Kelly Clarkson,
Speaker 1: and they don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's people forget their history.
Speaker 2: Well, I told you that someone called Jennifer Aniston that
Speaker 2: girl with the cheating thing with Brad Pitt.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: So strange to not know Kelly Clarkson's chunky highlight. Like
Speaker 2: these people have no reverence. It's like, I don't know
Speaker 2: share lived before I was born.
Speaker 1: I know a few looks like I don't understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't do disco. I get what disco is, Like,
Speaker 2: what has happened? I know who Donna Summer is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm getting back to the episode Finn. Yeah, he's busting through.
Speaker 2: He's pissed. He's in the precinct. Munch is running after him,
Speaker 2: trying to calm him down. I love their dynamic. Craigan
Speaker 2: comes out and Finn starts in with him too. Why
Speaker 2: is my son in there? And nobody calls me? And
Speaker 2: then he has to be like, babe, he didn't want
Speaker 2: us to, so that's something to explore, and it's explosive.
Speaker 2: He yells for everyone to stay out of him and
Speaker 2: his son's business, and Craigan says, it is my business.
Speaker 2: I've never seen Finn so mad. Craigan is like, I
Speaker 2: need to know who that body is. Where is this
Speaker 2: body who put the body there? So then Finn relaxes
Speaker 2: a little and goes, well, can I at least listen in?
Speaker 2: And Munch is like, he has bruises, but he's fine,
Speaker 2: and the resting officers are getting looked at too, so
Speaker 2: don't make trouble. Craigan ads, Benson and Stabler are in there,
Speaker 2: and Ken starts talking. He was with his cousin Darius
Speaker 2: at a dive bar around nine o'clock when he overheard
Speaker 2: a guy talking about how he killed a woman a
Speaker 2: couple years ago and got away with it. And he
Speaker 2: said he raped her with a knife and buried the
Speaker 2: body in a vacant lot. Crazy secret to give up
Speaker 2: at a bar, you know what I mean? That's like, ohy.
Speaker 1: Over here to be talking about it so loudly that
Speaker 1: people can hear you in a loud dive bar. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The raping of the knife really takes it to like,
Speaker 2: let's not openly chat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so strange.
Speaker 2: So anyways, so then the bar is called the Deuce
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty ninth and Lennox he didn't know
Speaker 2: the guy. Stabler asks why would you go body hunting
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night from some bar chat
Speaker 2: and he says the way he talked it sounded real
Speaker 2: to me and I had to know. But Benson goes,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you call the cops? And he's like, well,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have believed me, Like you're not believing me
Speaker 2: right now, but he describes He's like, this dude was black,
Speaker 2: mid twenties, under six feet, medium billed, puffy jacket. And
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, but did you get a name or
Speaker 2: ask anyone at the bar about him? And they're like,
Speaker 2: did you even find the body? Like, I like, what
Speaker 2: is up, bro? And Ken's like, listen, I'm trying to
Speaker 2: help him do the right thing. Knock on the window.
Speaker 2: Stabler goes out. Finn screams, you are treating my son
Speaker 2: like any bozo off the street. Why don't you believe him?
Speaker 2: And Stabler's like, well, it's his body language, and Kragan's
Speaker 2: asks if Stabler thinks Ken is trying to protect somebody
Speaker 2: or himself. Stabler says, Stabler is such a piece of shit,
Speaker 2: like I don't know. Everyone was so behind him with
Speaker 2: Kathleen and stuff, like being like, yeah, maybe it's your son.
Speaker 2: He did it. He raped a woman with his knife.
Speaker 2: You don't even know him, Like, what the fuck right?
Speaker 1: And this is our third episode with Ken, like we
Speaker 1: have met Ken before, they all know him.
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Do you remember the episode? Who did
Speaker 2: I See on the flight? I texted you guys, John Macgaro, Yes,
Speaker 2: that was fun. I don't I bet no one's ever
Speaker 2: gasped in his face from seeing it before now to
Speaker 2: diminish his work. But I gasped, But I left him alone.
Speaker 1: I left him alone. Very kind of you.
Speaker 2: But they were in that episode together. Ken's been protecting
Speaker 2: gay kids. Right, isn't that that one?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: I think so he's been in two so yeah, well.
Speaker 2: He's in in an not in constitution institutional fail, institutional fail,
Speaker 2: which I don't know. If I was trying to get
Speaker 2: into acting school, I would do that monologue. I would
Speaker 2: try to do that monologue and then they would go, oh,
Speaker 2: we actually don't do TV monologues here, but that is
Speaker 2: let me finish. Okay, so body language, Stabler goes, I
Speaker 2: think your son raped a woman with a knife, and
Speaker 2: he says the story's too soft, and then he was
Speaker 2: like maybe he was moving the bodies around. Finish steaming,
Speaker 2: and it's all YadA YadA, like let's dig up the body.
Speaker 2: So then Craigan goes, we can't just go digging. We
Speaker 2: need to know whose body it is, and like who
Speaker 2: we're looking for. Finn finally asked, so you not only
Speaker 2: think my son is a liar, you think he's a
Speaker 2: murderer or two, And Sailor says, I don't know, but
Speaker 2: you are the first to admit you don't really know him,
Speaker 2: and Finn hits low and says, oh, like you know
Speaker 2: your kids, right, And now I don't think it's low
Speaker 2: because I don't think the first time I was watching
Speaker 2: and typing, I was as mad at what was Stabler
Speaker 2: was accusing because it is clear Ken is lying, but like, yes,
Speaker 2: of course it's to protection.
Speaker 1: Like there's no get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ken is like a sensitive god, like there's just
Speaker 2: no fucking like fuck off.
Speaker 1: I would also like love the statistics on the number
Speaker 1: of like violent rapes of women committed by gay men,
Speaker 1: like at this, we know he's a gay man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So it's so annoying. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I get the motive here. No, and now I don't
Speaker 2: think Finn is hits low. He hits honestly too kind
Speaker 2: and goes, oh, like you know your kids right, Tell me,
Speaker 2: is your daughter still driving drunk or did she move
Speaker 2: up to something stronger?
Speaker 1: Soon enough you might be swinging off a pole.
Speaker 2: Then Stabler lunges to attack him, and then Craigan holds
Speaker 2: him back and strains like to scream like Elliott, walk
Speaker 2: it off now, and then Craigan says, that's enough, focus
Speaker 2: on your son and take him home. Talk to Darius
Speaker 2: and see if he has the same story and you know,
Speaker 2: heard the same stuff. So Finn walks to get his son,
Speaker 2: and so him and Benson have been chilling there. Munch
Speaker 2: asks Craigan if he thinks Ken did it, and Craigan goes, no,
Speaker 2: but he is lying. I want to know why. So
Speaker 2: that's our captain. Hell yeah. And then Ken goes to
Speaker 2: his mom, Lisa Gay Hamilton, and her name is Teresa
Speaker 2: in this aka Terry and you might know her from
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty five episodes of the Practice or
Speaker 2: from Sex and the City. Her name is Kendall. She's
Speaker 2: Miranda's neighbor who gives her the vibrating chair. But I
Speaker 2: forgot the daughter's name. It's like Malika, I think though.
Speaker 2: And then that's my daughter, Manka.
Speaker 1: And you would note that if you, if you ever
Speaker 1: bother to stop and talk to us. Yeah, and this
Speaker 1: is her first appearance in this show. We've not seen
Speaker 1: Finn's wife yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's wife.
Speaker 1: Sorry x wife?
Speaker 2: Well yeah, so she so she goes, so, this is
Speaker 2: Teresa Randall and she is worried about his bruises and
Speaker 2: bandaged face, and she asks what do we do now?
Speaker 1: And Ken's like, why the fuck are you asking him?
Speaker 2: And Ken wants to handle it himself and and Finn goes, yep,
Speaker 2: like you have it all covered. Looks looks good to me,
Speaker 2: and he goes, you know what, I'm going to bed.
Speaker 2: So then the exes are together in the kitchen and
Speaker 2: Finn asks about Darius and she's like, fuck him. He
Speaker 2: is poisoned and always will be and you weren't around
Speaker 2: much so you don't know shit. And he goes, come on,
Speaker 2: you know, I was undercover and i'd be gone a
Speaker 2: lot and she says, no, not a lot, you were
Speaker 2: just gone. So they go back and forth a bit,
Speaker 2: but she goes and opens the door and says sperm
Speaker 2: donors don't get parental rights, and he says cool and
Speaker 2: starts exiting and is like, just tell me where Darius is,
Speaker 2: and she says, autobody on Frederick Douglas and there he is,
Speaker 2: Terry's nephew, Finn says, and it's been a long time.
Speaker 2: So then we see it's Ludacris. Okay, it's Ludacris, guys,
Speaker 2: so it's a thrill, okay. So he goes, it's been
Speaker 2: a long time, Finn, and then Finn corrects him. Detective
Speaker 2: then introduces him to Munch. So he's working on a sculpture.
Speaker 2: He's really artistic. They're setting this up, and you know,
Speaker 2: neither of them are interested in small talks. So Finn
Speaker 2: gets down to business and is like, did you see
Speaker 2: Ken last night? And he confirms they had a few
Speaker 2: drinks at the Deuce left around midnight. He assumed that
Speaker 2: Ken went home just like he went home. Finn goes, well,
Speaker 2: you know, Ken seems upset, and Ludacris is like, you
Speaker 2: know him, He's always twisting over something. His grades is
Speaker 2: beef with you being gay, and just the way he
Speaker 2: is much ass if anybody ever talked about a murder,
Speaker 2: and he's like, really taken him back, like what, no way, why?
Speaker 2: And he took his fire burning helmet thing off and
Speaker 2: now he's in a do rag and they go, well,
Speaker 2: your cousin said he did, and he was digging for
Speaker 2: a body when the cops pinched him. And he goes,
Speaker 2: that's crazy. He wouldn't let him do that if, like
Speaker 2: he knew what was up. And then he goes, but
Speaker 2: the bar is shady as fuck, like, I'm not surprised
Speaker 2: if there was a killer or two there, and he says,
Speaker 2: I've changed no matter what Terry says, and he's not
Speaker 2: in the game anymore, and he calls Riker's a gated community,
Speaker 2: which I found funny, and then then he goes, if
Speaker 2: I don't care about me, nobody will. And then Finn's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: will you please talk to Ken because he's not talking
Speaker 2: to me. So now Benson and Stable are gossiping in
Speaker 2: the office and they're like, oh, he has a record,
Speaker 2: but it's sealed, blah blah blah. Can lie to us,
Speaker 2: and she says, kids lie and so do yours. But
Speaker 2: they're also looking for Yes, you would know that, but
Speaker 2: you're never home. And they're looking at potential murder victims.
Speaker 2: And they said there's one woman, but they don't say
Speaker 2: her name, and then they say the other woman's name
Speaker 2: and we're gonna assume it's her. So it's Nina Stanfield
Speaker 2: and her her and her baby disappeared and in her
Speaker 2: apartment were seven pints of blood and a four inch
Speaker 2: knife that was engraved was left at the house and
Speaker 2: everyone thinks the ex husband did it, so they go
Speaker 2: to the ex husband's place.
Speaker 1: He's like, I didn't kill my wife.
Speaker 2: Nobody believes me, and Munch is like, well, then, who
Speaker 2: did you know you did abuse her, like, and then
Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, but everyone abuses women like relax, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't take it further than that. Yeah, just hitting her
Speaker 2: a couple times. But he said I didn't hate her
Speaker 2: or my son, and I would never hurt them. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm against domestic violence obviously, very strong, but I feel like,
Speaker 2: even if you did punch your wife once, it's different
Speaker 2: than raping someone with a knife.
Speaker 1: Like it is just such a famous prime.
Speaker 2: But I guess you have to assume it's the domestic
Speaker 2: abuser because they asked they can't escalate. Yeah, I hope
Speaker 2: no one clips that. And it's like she defended, defended
Speaker 2: the guy, but whatever. Finn's like, well, who else could
Speaker 2: have done it? And he's like, oh god, so much blood?
Speaker 2: No body, where's my son? And he looks like a
Speaker 2: shell of a man. And police will not tell me
Speaker 2: a thing, but they talk to my in laws, my boss,
Speaker 2: my friends. They labeled me a killer. So then they're like,
Speaker 2: well does the wife have like what other people could
Speaker 2: she have had problems with? And he goes, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: she had boyfriends, there were babysitters, she loved going out,
Speaker 2: she loved happy hour, dinners with the friends, reliving her
Speaker 2: single glory days, and then Finn's like, was she cheating?
Speaker 1: And he says that's the reason.
Speaker 2: The cops say I killed her, but I was always
Speaker 2: at work always. They ask about the Douce bar and
Speaker 2: he says he's not welcome in that neighborhood. So he
Speaker 2: drinks at home now and he sits with a bottle
Speaker 2: of brown liquor and he tells him to leave, and
Speaker 2: he's about to drink whiskey from or scotch or something
Speaker 2: out of a and it's like one of the big
Speaker 2: kind of tubs of bottles.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like a handle. He's about to Yah,
Speaker 1: forgot that week time.
Speaker 2: I truly forgot Bad Bunny his name this week and
Speaker 2: was like trying to talk about bad Bunny and I
Speaker 2: had to be like, you know, Benito, And that's how
Speaker 2: I felt right now, like I could not think of
Speaker 2: the fucking word dude, that's.
Speaker 1: My whole life. I'm like describing things like I'm second,
Speaker 1: like I'm e s l like I'm truly like all
Speaker 1: the time, like what's the thing where you like you
Speaker 1: put your comforter inside of oh a duvet?
Speaker 2: Yes, Like well, that's actually good for me to hear,
Speaker 2: because I obviously am like, Oh, it's weed's fault.
Speaker 1: But you don't smoke weed? Really?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: Wow, I drink and I have two kids, so maybe
Speaker 1: that's the equivalent.
Speaker 2: That's the equivalent. But do you think but I drink
Speaker 2: and smoke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think all of our minds are going are.
Speaker 2: Going to be most eventually.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: We're probably speeding it up. We're speeding it up. But
Speaker 2: I am reading, and I keep i'm reading. I'm probably
Speaker 2: going to sharpen things. That's only going to sharpen things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I already feel my vocabulary growing. JK, what where did
Speaker 2: I forget that existed? A handle?
Speaker 1: Handle? But he says I'd like to get started.
Speaker 2: So he's gonna drink his life away and he's in
Speaker 2: mourning Munchhin Finn are in Kragan's office being like that
Speaker 2: man is so so sad. I don't think it's him,
Speaker 2: and Craigan goes, yeah, we think it's Ken. So Finn
Speaker 2: is like, what the fuck? I know I'm a bad dad,
Speaker 2: but I don't think my son raped a woman with
Speaker 2: a knife. And then okay, I have we talked about
Speaker 2: this on the pot already do you say, Like when
Speaker 2: I talk about necrophilia rape, I just say necrophilia someone
Speaker 2: like and then he necrophilia.
Speaker 1: Them, Like, do I have to say rape? Is it
Speaker 1: like rape?
Speaker 4: Neg?
Speaker 1: Like what? I think it's implied that it's there's nothing
Speaker 1: a print being given?
Speaker 2: Sure, but what is the word because the tense I'm using, Like,
Speaker 2: I know I'm not being grammatically correct, it's what That's
Speaker 2: the best I can do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I don't even know if you need
Speaker 1: to Yeah, I don't know if you need to include
Speaker 1: I would I would personally not include the rape. I
Speaker 1: would just say, but committed necrophilia on a.
Speaker 2: Person committed necrophilia, I guess because I'm trying. I'm working
Speaker 2: on a Green River killer bit, and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's funnier to say necrophilia on someone if
Speaker 1: you want, like just from a funny standpoint, that's funnier. Okay,
Speaker 1: But what do I use on our professional pop in
Speaker 1: a committed necrophilia or committed acts of committed ophelias? Like
Speaker 1: what they would say about like Bundy and people that
Speaker 1: would go back and revisit their victims.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just thought of a really good slur morg fucker.
Speaker 2: Oh yeh like you. We would never hire you because
Speaker 2: you look like a morgue fucker. I can't wait to
Speaker 2: start calling people morg fuckers. Do you think people will
Speaker 2: get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: I think that that. I like, to me, it's like
Speaker 2: a funeral home would not hire you because you.
Speaker 1: Look like much fun with the dead bodies.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't think it comes It's not. It's
Speaker 2: not clear enough. If I if I like saw someone
Speaker 2: at a bar being like, no, you're.
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about it. I'm just thinking about it.
Speaker 1: I think I think it would definitely take people back.
Speaker 1: It's not it's it's not an a lexicon. You're and
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're innovative. No, I'm inventing it here.
Speaker 6: I think what came to my mind first was someone
Speaker 6: who like hangs out around a morgue to pick up
Speaker 6: like people's whose husbands died. Oh, like an ambulance chase. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: that's sort of what I was saying. So that was
Speaker 6: the first image that came to mind for me.
Speaker 1: Casey, I'm glad we could catch up this with you.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're thinking, but that's not even a thing.
Speaker 2: Do you think people sit around the morgue trying to
Speaker 2: fuck the widowed, the recently bereaved.
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't think that, but that was the
Speaker 6: the connotation that was where my mind went.
Speaker 2: But that would work too, Like you're so desperate a
Speaker 2: woman or a man needs to be like crying, like
Speaker 2: just dropped off the dead.
Speaker 1: Well, like I think also sometimes it's like remember that
Speaker 1: episode we just did it all with all the silky robes.
Speaker 1: Like I think that there's probably guys like that that
Speaker 1: hang out and like talk to the grieving widow who
Speaker 1: has a lot of money, Hey, can I be your
Speaker 1: shoulder to cry on? That's more like a funeral fucker.
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, a more fucker or a more.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. You seem like the kind
Speaker 1: of person that would commit necrophilia. Well, I will come
Speaker 1: up with something perfect. We also need to make some
Speaker 1: Tommy Merch.
Speaker 2: Okay, Craigan is like, listen, your son has an assault
Speaker 2: charge at sixteen years old, had one again, Grammar a nightmare.
Speaker 2: Craigan's like, you know, he had an assault charge at
Speaker 2: sixteen that was recanted, and Finn goes, yeah, exactly recanted,
Speaker 2: but also he didn't know about it, and so then
Speaker 2: maybe the girl lied. And then Craigan reminds him, like,
Speaker 2: stay off this case, please, and Munch defends his friend
Speaker 2: and goes, why would he do that? Like what is
Speaker 2: the connection? And Craigan goes, oh, funny, you asked. Well,
Speaker 2: Harry and Ken lived across the street from that apartment.
Speaker 2: And then everyone looks at Finn and is like, oh,
Speaker 2: so lying runs in your fucking family. Munch is so disappointed.
Speaker 2: Why would you do that? And he's like, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to protect my son. Munch asked, like, do you think
Speaker 2: Ken did it? Finn responds no, but if you can
Speaker 2: make an easy case, it won't matter if he did
Speaker 2: it or not.
Speaker 1: And Cragan's like, fuck you.
Speaker 2: You know I don't cut corners here and I don't
Speaker 2: just go for easy clothes. Finn says, that's your opinion,
Speaker 2: and then Craigan responds and for your son's sake, you're lucky.
Speaker 2: My opinion is the only one that matters. Stare down
Speaker 2: and now for a dig. They found three bodies and
Speaker 2: body parts. There's people everywhere, all different races, like, so
Speaker 2: it's a really popular grave site, but they're all men.
Speaker 2: Melinda has not found a woman or child yet. And
Speaker 2: then Melinda calls it an impromptu graveyard and she looks
Speaker 2: really cute in her beanie.
Speaker 1: Wait, so now how did they get to this impromptu graveyard?
Speaker 2: Okay, so basically, like Ken heard, Like part of the
Speaker 2: thing Ken heard was that the body was buried in
Speaker 2: like this kind of an empty lot across from a bar.
Speaker 2: So he just went to a random lot across from
Speaker 2: a bar, hoping he would find it. But I think
Speaker 2: this was just another popular burialh and so they're just
Speaker 2: finding a ton of other bodies.
Speaker 1: They're just difference so many bodies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it makes me think the killers are getting
Speaker 2: together and chit chatting like in Dexter Resurrection, because it's
Speaker 2: like you all picked the slot. It also is in
Speaker 2: New York City, and like, I think a lot of
Speaker 2: places are quiet at night, but I really don't think
Speaker 2: you would get away with bearing and a lot in
Speaker 2: the bar.
Speaker 1: Like there's one thing to say, Oh, a lot of
Speaker 1: bodies are in the Hudson River, or there's a lot
Speaker 1: of bodies in the East River, Like that's one thing,
Speaker 1: But to have like a lot that's just like yep.
Speaker 1: This is where a lot of bodies are buried. It
Speaker 1: seems crazy in a like who's strap buying it?
Speaker 2: How did they get into the fenced area, like and
Speaker 2: no one noticed?
Speaker 1: Like how they get the body? Like you have to
Speaker 1: carry the body? Yeah, like wrapped it. So I always
Speaker 1: assume when you're moving a body in the city, it's
Speaker 1: wrapped in a car. You're always like moving moving to
Speaker 1: a new apartment, have a carpet, just got this off Craigslist.
Speaker 1: Nothing inside of it, you know, or it's or it's
Speaker 1: like or it's the trunk of the car. And I
Speaker 1: don't know, you got everyone's got a car to get
Speaker 1: rid of it. I didn't have a car.
Speaker 2: In New York. Everyone's driving now, Yeah, they get shovels
Speaker 2: bearing at the lots.
Speaker 1: It's too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So now Melinda nova Okay, so Melinda Novak, there's
Speaker 2: knocks on Craigan's door. She confirmed that the assault charge
Speaker 2: against Ken was bogus. Again, we know Ken, like anyone
Speaker 2: can be a rapist, but like we do know Ken.
Speaker 2: So Munch arrives with Ken and Terry, and Terry goes,
Speaker 2: where can I wait? So then she goes to sit
Speaker 2: somewhere and then Novak and Craigan go to grab Ken,
Speaker 2: but then Finn walks in with a tough, fast lawyer.
Speaker 2: She's tough, and then Finn looks cold as hell and
Speaker 2: Teresa wants to talk and Finn says talk or yell,
Speaker 2: and she says that's up to you. And now we're
Speaker 2: in cement room bars and Munch is there with the
Speaker 2: lawyer in Novak and he does an want to change
Speaker 2: his story at all, and Munch goes, well, okay, but
Speaker 2: what about the baby? And Ken is confused and was like,
Speaker 2: what baby? And I do believe him? And then they
Speaker 2: bring up Nina Stanfield's name. Do you know the victim
Speaker 2: or not? The lawyer goes nope, and Novak goes chill
Speaker 2: out and lawyer goes, no, you do your job and
Speaker 2: prove if he knows her or not. It's not my
Speaker 2: client's job to do your job for you. Ken is
Speaker 2: stressing it's killing him on the inside. Munch then goes, listen,
Speaker 2: she was raped by a knife, just like Ken said,
Speaker 2: and Novak adds this young man had knowledge of the
Speaker 2: crime and he lived right across the street. Lawyer goes,
Speaker 2: anything else because we're gonna leave Novak's like, just give
Speaker 2: us the DNA and then you can get on with
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 1: And lawyer goes lol lol lol.
Speaker 2: So then tre Senfinn are walking up the stairs to
Speaker 2: the loft lounge trademark that that's what we're calling.
Speaker 1: From now on. Doesn't that sound good?
Speaker 2: The loft lounge.
Speaker 1: The loft Lounge's good, theft lounge.
Speaker 2: She says, you are write that down, Casey, She said, for.
Speaker 1: For trademark, not a pension. What is the patent pending?
Speaker 1: She says, call her patent lawyer, Casey, call her patent lawyer.
Speaker 2: Thank you Jesus. She says, you are not doing him
Speaker 2: any favors getting that lawyer. And he says he is
Speaker 2: the only suspect in a double homicide. I'm protecting him.
Speaker 2: And then from what, like he's innocent? Like from what,
Speaker 2: Finn goes, are you fucking slow? Prison is filled with
Speaker 2: innocent people, and we know what color most of them are.
Speaker 2: So they go back and forth. She wants me to
Speaker 2: be his father, not his friend, and we all know
Speaker 2: he knows like more to what's going on. We need
Speaker 2: him to get involved, so come on, like, let's help
Speaker 2: him tell the truth and figure this out. Finn is
Speaker 2: looking for something in a hurry, and Benson asked what
Speaker 2: he's looking for. He responds the Stanfield crime scene photos
Speaker 2: and sketches, and Benson just opens a drawer and hands
Speaker 2: it to him really easy, peasy, and says, all you
Speaker 2: had to do is ask, And he says all you
Speaker 2: could have done is picked up the damn phone. And
Speaker 2: she's annoyed but knows he's going through stuff, so she's
Speaker 2: being chill and she's like, so one thing you want
Speaker 2: to get off your chest and he says, you cross
Speaker 2: the line. He should have been the next call after
Speaker 2: my after the sun, and that can't happen again. She goes,
Speaker 2: come on, like, let's go talk in private, and she's like,
Speaker 2: your son asked me for help.
Speaker 1: What should I have done?
Speaker 2: He goes not making decisions for my family and running
Speaker 2: interference between me and my son, and she says it
Speaker 2: wasn't her intention, and he knows that she was just
Speaker 2: trying to help, so this is really sweet. He also
Speaker 2: knows they have a lot to work through as father
Speaker 2: and son, and she understands and says sorry, So what's
Speaker 2: the next move? He says, there's nothing I need to do.
Speaker 2: Benson says, listen, Melinda has the info back and none
Speaker 2: of it matches the victim. Like what do you think
Speaker 2: all of this means? He says, I don't know. It
Speaker 2: tells me Ken didn't do it. She says, no, it
Speaker 2: means we can't prove it. We can't get his DNA,
Speaker 2: Like do you want this cloud hanging over him forever?
Speaker 2: Let's get the blood, Like don't you want to know?
Speaker 2: Finn is not okay with that, but Benson says it's
Speaker 2: the only way. And you know it, like you're a dad,
Speaker 2: but you're also cop, and there's no way to separate
Speaker 2: the two, and you know we need to be clear
Speaker 2: with him. So Ken is walking and you just hear
Speaker 2: him going. My lawyer says, no, munchin Finn are following him.
Speaker 2: It's the snowy streets of New York and they're asking
Speaker 2: him now to do the opposite of everything that has
Speaker 2: been going down. And they're like, listen, dude, a woman
Speaker 2: and child is dead, a husband's destroyed, and I know
Speaker 2: that means something to you, So like, decide what kind
Speaker 2: of man you want to be. So then Melinda, see
Speaker 2: he's a good guy, Like you know, Ken is actually
Speaker 2: a good guy. So then Melinda got the lab results
Speaker 2: and of course it's not a match. I wrote, like
Speaker 2: the fact that I've seen this episode fifteen times, it's
Speaker 2: not a match. Okay, so that's not it. So I
Speaker 2: wrote that all caps. It's wilder. So we're all in
Speaker 2: the center precinct and so like Finn and Craigan both
Speaker 2: ask questions at the same time, and she answers like,
Speaker 2: is it isn't it?
Speaker 1: She says, both, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Same mitochondria, mie cadrial DNA, same mitochondrial DNA. They're related.
Speaker 2: Oh so Darius Ken's cousin. They're close, like you know,
Speaker 2: that's why he probably protected him and didn't want to
Speaker 2: tell us. And Melinda goes, no, babe, can't be a
Speaker 2: cousin brother. He says, that's not possible. My ex wife
Speaker 2: didn't have other kids. She says, DNA doesn't lie, and
Speaker 2: we know that same codes, same sequence, like killer and
Speaker 2: your son have the same mother. He's stun stun stun.
Speaker 2: She's in office room blinds. Fuck, she says, nobody knows,
Speaker 2: and nobody was supposed to know that he is my son,
Speaker 2: not even Ken. Finn says, I know, I understand but
Speaker 2: it's DNA, and she says, it happened before I met you,
Speaker 2: and he had to go somewhere and he certainly couldn't
Speaker 2: stay with me. She was sixteen. The father was a
Speaker 2: bastard and you don't know what he did to me.
Speaker 2: And Darius looks just like him now, acting like him,
Speaker 2: and he's like, well, why why not adoption, you know?
Speaker 2: And why give the baby to your mother? Are you
Speaker 2: fucking kidding? I didn't give her anything she took. You
Speaker 2: knew her. She wouldn't allow blood out of the family.
Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's like a crazy That's like a good line.
Speaker 2: Whoever wrote this episode, that's like a really good line.
Speaker 2: I like, informed so much about the character with such
Speaker 2: little information. He asks about the dad and she says,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I hope he's dead. And he
Speaker 2: asked what happened to you? And she's traumatized as fuck,
Speaker 2: refuses to say anything, and he's acting like he has
Speaker 2: not been an SVU detective now for seven years, Like
Speaker 2: he's like, come on, you're the fucking problem.
Speaker 1: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: And she is crying and shaking, crying and shaking, she screams,
Speaker 2: you don't know what it's like to be forced to
Speaker 2: look at a face you hate. Every time he came
Speaker 2: over to play with Ken. It was agony family functions.
Speaker 2: It made me sick. I can't stand to look at
Speaker 2: him even now. And then she goes, does Darius know
Speaker 2: you're his mother? She says, I don't see how unless
Speaker 2: my you know, my mom's been dead for years, and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't tell him. He walks out, and Beady Wong's there,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if he's saying it to talk
Speaker 2: to Finn or he's caught talking shit about Finn because
Speaker 2: he goes interesting family dinah as Finn walks by, like
Speaker 2: out of the door. So that that was the moment
Speaker 2: I watched a couple of times. And then Finn says
Speaker 2: a classic line, damn freak show. We belong in one
Speaker 2: of your textbooks with the rest of the fruit loops.
Speaker 2: And you know, I love what they call the mentally
Speaker 2: ill fruit loops. And I don't care if it's like wrong.
Speaker 2: I like it. You're a fruit loop, oh, because it's
Speaker 2: is it also geysto like a gay slur too?
Speaker 1: I don't think so, Yeah, I mean fruity is, but
Speaker 1: I think a fruit loop is just like cuckoo for
Speaker 1: cocoa puffs, like, you know, like I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: like your fruit loop me, Yeah, you're atlutely. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think it has a gay connotation, but.
Speaker 2: No it is.
Speaker 1: So it also sounds like he's kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my family's messed up like everybody.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, rest its fruit loops.
Speaker 2: Craigan says, go pick up Darius, but Novacco's no, we
Speaker 2: need a little more evidence, and they're like, well he
Speaker 2: said it at the bar, you know. And then Beatie
Speaker 2: Wongs also like work the baby angle. There's a reason
Speaker 2: that baby wasn't brought up. You know. He's like, I
Speaker 2: think it's self loathing. He's a reject, a pariah, and
Speaker 2: it's like whoa, whoa, whoa. But maybe maybe he thinks
Speaker 2: he's like saving the baby from this terrible like pain
Speaker 2: of living. Also, they have to like real like figure
Speaker 2: out if Darius nos or not, because what if Grandma
Speaker 2: gave a deathbed confession? You know, you never know what
Speaker 2: happens on those deathbeds, and so is that merch You
Speaker 2: don't know what happens on those deathbeds? You never know
Speaker 2: what happens on a deathbed. If this was last culture,
Speaker 2: he says, it would be a rule of culture, it
Speaker 2: would be Yeah, but it's not. It's not guys Anyways,
Speaker 2: Then they go, were baby items missing from the apartment?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: What fuck?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: What's missing? How did he know her? Why bury her? Like?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: And if he did find out the truth, maybe like
Speaker 2: something small could have set him off, you know, rage,
Speaker 2: surrogate crime. So they go back to the husband. He's
Speaker 2: at work and they're like, do you recognize any of
Speaker 2: these suspects.
Speaker 1: He does not. He's willing to lie say, that's not
Speaker 1: how it works.
Speaker 2: Munch asks if any of his son's stuff was taken
Speaker 2: from him, and he goes, actually, yes, a rattle. It
Speaker 2: was passed down by my wife's family. It was wooden,
Speaker 2: this like heirloom, and the family wanted it back and
Speaker 2: I couldn't find it. So now we got to go
Speaker 2: find this fucking rattle. So they're at Darius's apartment. They're
Speaker 2: searching Judith Ciper sniper why do I forget her name? Cyper? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and a CSU tech you know, I think Melinda's at
Speaker 2: the morgue and Judith's on the scene today and Finn
Speaker 2: wants her to work faster, and she says she can
Speaker 2: always use a second set of hands, bitch. And then
Speaker 2: Munch finds the wooden rattle. It's hidden in a sculpture,
Speaker 2: but it's been three years, so it might be hard
Speaker 2: to get DNA, and Finn doesn't think the rattle is
Speaker 2: solid enough evidence. Finn goes to harass his son, though
Speaker 2: like he won't he won't pass up a chance to
Speaker 2: do that, so he won't turn on his brother, like
Speaker 2: Ken is like, I'm not going to turn on my brother.
Speaker 2: But it's like he did rape someone with a knife,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know how many more times I can
Speaker 2: repeat that, So so he won't turn on his brother.
Speaker 2: He also hates Terry now for throwing her son away,
Speaker 2: but like, and he doesn't trust Finn, and Darius is
Speaker 2: the only person who's ever been there for him, even
Speaker 2: when he came out as gay, and Finn sucks, and
Speaker 2: Finn's like, well, you murdered a woman, so like it's
Speaker 2: nice that he was nice too when he came out,
Speaker 2: but like, hmm, I think I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's worse.
Speaker 2: Homophobia or double homicide, so not to compare traumas, but
Speaker 2: but yeah, Finn and Kenn are back at Darius's place
Speaker 2: and there's a photo of the blood and he's like,
Speaker 2: what do you want from me?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: And they're like, how long have you known that Terry's
Speaker 2: your mom? And he goes, too long. Grandma told me,
Speaker 2: he says, when she was hopped up on morphine and
Speaker 2: begging for forgiveness. But he doesn't like that she told
Speaker 2: him and wished that she had kept it a secret.
Speaker 2: Why did the grandma do it? She's a bad person.
Speaker 1: And it's like the end of well, she was also
Speaker 1: probably like I know that you're birth mother has like
Speaker 1: not been kind to you and like you've been kind
Speaker 1: of cast out, and she was probably like guilty and
Speaker 1: fucked up at the end of her life and was
Speaker 1: like she's your real mother, like make amends, like probably
Speaker 1: thinking she was helping you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he kind of breaks and is like, fuck you, Ken,
Speaker 2: why you what's so special about you and not me?
Speaker 2: And he's really sad in his eyes. Luda's crushing and
Speaker 2: then Ken says, there's nothing special.
Speaker 1: Butt did we talk to Neil Baerr about this?
Speaker 2: Like how did they even come up with the ludas
Speaker 2: like to get ludacris you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It sounds like he really wanted to act, you know,
Speaker 1: like for sure, yeah so, but I I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if we talked to Neil about Luda. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we gotta go back and relisten.
Speaker 2: It's been a mile, so he kind so, and then
Speaker 2: Ken goes, there's nothing special about me, you know, and
Speaker 2: Luda says, no, I know, it's not your fault either,
Speaker 2: And then Finn says he thinks you did it on accident,
Speaker 2: and Luda goes, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: I knew you couldn't keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know why he told him, Like Ken
Speaker 2: is such a dogurder, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: he wouldn't be.
Speaker 1: Able to live with this, Like maybe he was more drunk.
Speaker 2: But anyways, he says, I didn't tell anyone, and Darius
Speaker 2: is like, listen, don't sweat, it's probably why I told you. Anyways,
Speaker 2: I got sober, I changed. I couldn't live with the
Speaker 2: guilt for one more day. Finn's like, okay, come clean,
Speaker 2: I'll help you. So they go downtown to get a
Speaker 2: confession from a non family member. We have Munch and
Speaker 2: Kragan in there, and they're like, let's do it. He
Speaker 2: knew Nina threw a babysitter she hired, and they want
Speaker 2: more information. He says, no, I'm not going to lead
Speaker 2: you to this person all, but I will lead you
Speaker 2: to the bodies. I'm guilty of murder here, so I'm
Speaker 2: not going to make any excuses. I stabbed her with
Speaker 2: a knife and I killed her baby, and the baby
Speaker 2: was fourteen months old. Took the bodies from the apartment.
Speaker 2: I went to this in the car. You're right, car too,
Speaker 2: a vacant lot. Dug a hole and buried them and
Speaker 2: they've been there for three years. And like that's when
Speaker 2: he found out the secret. So this probably was like
Speaker 2: within a very close time frame. They asked for him
Speaker 2: to write down the confession. He starts writing, and I wrote,
Speaker 2: I love Ludas so much. Now he is in a
Speaker 2: puffer jacket, Finn is in a leather Munch is in
Speaker 2: a pea coat, and they're digging. Everyone's digging. Melinda finds
Speaker 2: something three feet down. Finn says he did the right thing,
Speaker 2: and he goes, yep, I'm going to spend the rest
Speaker 2: of my life in prison, and Munch goes, listen, you
Speaker 2: confess to your own volition. You led us to the bodies, Like,
Speaker 2: maybe the ADA will take that into consideration. He's depressed
Speaker 2: and over it and doesn't care and he just doesn't
Speaker 2: want to can involved. And it's done. So there's evidence
Speaker 2: an adult female age thirty, multiple cutting and stabbing wounds,
Speaker 2: advanced d CAM, lots of defensive cuts, strike marks two
Speaker 2: with murder weapon. Baby was suffocated, soil and lungs bury
Speaker 2: the baby alive. I forgot that detail. The baby was alive, Yeah,
Speaker 2: soil and the lungs. I forgot about that. Yeah. Him
Speaker 2: and Derek Musa really want to torture up a baby.
Speaker 2: And John Ritter, oh yeah, may he rests okay, so
Speaker 2: lots of defense. Yeah, we okay, whatever. The baby's buried alive,
Speaker 2: so I won't say it again. So then Nahshi Horowitz
Speaker 2: comes in and we love when he's on our screen
Speaker 2: and he's representing Darius and Nova goes no deal. He
Speaker 2: says he's not asking for one, and she's rude and
Speaker 2: is like, what do you want and he says, pleasant
Speaker 2: conversation wouldn't hurt. As he sits down slowly, Novak does
Speaker 2: a seething monologue, stands over him, like fuck him, and
Speaker 2: as she so then has she tells Novak amazing monologue,
Speaker 2: so sad nobody will ever hear it. And he is
Speaker 2: like so smug, and he hands her emotion to suppress
Speaker 2: and emotion to dismiss, and it's Judge Louis Preston and
Speaker 2: it's let's go. So then they get two minutes with her.
Speaker 2: She's like two minutes, she's so busy. And he says
Speaker 2: that his client's fifth and sixth Amendment rights were violated,
Speaker 2: that the police interrogated him without council. They argue what's up,
Speaker 2: and bring up like old cases and what happened, and
Speaker 2: then he says, there's an open burglary charge and court
Speaker 2: date that he mentioned and you all knew, so you
Speaker 2: knew he had counsel. All they had to do was
Speaker 2: call him and wait. But they ignored it. And she
Speaker 2: agrees with him, and confession is out and any fruit's
Speaker 2: born from it. So Novaka is mad and runs into
Speaker 2: the Center precinct. They're all fucked. Everyone's flabberg acid. The
Speaker 2: bodies can't be included Finn is like, fuck, Darius knew
Speaker 2: exactly what he was doing. This was all a setup.
Speaker 2: He did it. He's so fucking smart. So they need
Speaker 2: to run and try to find more evidence. So everyone's dispersing,
Speaker 2: everyone's at work and like nothing he said can be
Speaker 2: used or what they got from it.
Speaker 1: And well, here's what I don't understand, Like they found
Speaker 1: his DNA at the scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but only because he confessed and brought it.
Speaker 1: Not at first, like at first it was because Ken
Speaker 1: was accused, and then they found out that they share
Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA the person that was at the scene with Ken,
Speaker 1: So can't they say, like we found a DNA connect.
Speaker 2: Through absolutely, but they can't prove like they don't have
Speaker 2: his DNA, right yeah, true, they need to get his
Speaker 2: DNA to confirm, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it would be a brother of or another
Speaker 1: child that Terry had at some point. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Finn goes to Ken, like maybe Ken's gonna just
Speaker 2: give him the info they need to help the case.
Speaker 2: So it's like Ken, come on, he is a killer,
Speaker 2: and they're like, does he have any girlfriends? Like any
Speaker 2: of this any of these babysitters on Nina's babysitter list
Speaker 2: or any of them connected to Darius, and he recognizes
Speaker 2: the name Angela Bodden and she is crazy about him,
Speaker 2: bought him gifts and money, but he wasn't that into her,
Speaker 2: but liked how she treated him, like unsafe. She's a
Speaker 2: male person. Now, I'm proud of her, great job, she says.
Speaker 2: The dead baby was a good baby. Unfortunately, so she
Speaker 2: hated the mom for like stepping out on her old man,
Speaker 2: but was mad at her all the time about how
Speaker 2: much food she ate and like, oh, you spend so
Speaker 2: too much time on the phone and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and so she's like, I don't want to speak ill
Speaker 2: of the dead, but she was fucking annoying, and she goes,
Speaker 2: she did hate my boyfriend, but she had a point
Speaker 2: to hate Darius because he had a temper and he
Speaker 2: got me fired. And so basically what happened was she
Speaker 2: would complain to Ludacris's Darius's character. I just want to
Speaker 2: call him Luda every single time. It's so hard for me.
Speaker 2: So she was like, God, my boss is a stupid bitch.
Speaker 2: So then when he saw the mom on the street,
Speaker 2: he's like, you're a bad mother. So she's like, don't
Speaker 2: bring him around and then she's like, but that's my boyfriend,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you actually are not entitled to bring
Speaker 2: your boyfriend to your job, and he should have somewhere
Speaker 2: else to go. Also, it's like humiliating or buying him stuff.
Speaker 2: He doesn't even like you. You're jeopardized. I mean you're
Speaker 2: a male person now, So like that's awesome, but like
Speaker 2: so strange. She found his knife in the couch cushions
Speaker 2: and fired her on this spot. So he went back
Speaker 2: to get the knife and she says like, but it
Speaker 2: was too late. So then this dummy she goes, you know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of ironic, like if she didn't take his knife,
Speaker 2: her husband would have used it to kill her. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, Like, in what world.
Speaker 1: Is that what happened?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so but they still don't have enough, and
Speaker 2: munch Infinner trying with Novak and she's like, why didn't
Speaker 2: the cops do their job back in the day, And
Speaker 2: you know, classic tunnel vision, they thought the husband didn't,
Speaker 2: So what do they do now? So we're back in
Speaker 2: cement room bars and Novak's trying to intimidate Heshi and
Speaker 2: Luda do not give a fuck, and he tells her
Speaker 2: Hubris isn't attractive, especially for a woman her age.
Speaker 1: Lol obsessed, which is hilarious because I think I look
Speaker 1: this up, like I feel like Diane Neil is twenty
Speaker 1: nine in this episode. I mean she's probably supposed to
Speaker 1: be like thirty five, but it's like, wow, what a read.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all those movies to early two thousands,
Speaker 2: Like I think, like The Wedding Planner, all those people
Speaker 2: are in their twenties, like they're twenty seven, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean remember Bird Cage when she's like nineteen
Speaker 1: and it's like, why won't my parents let me get married?
Speaker 1: I think she's twenty two in Father of the Bride. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: because in.
Speaker 2: Nineteen as well, my best friend's wedding, Cameron Diaz is
Speaker 2: nineteen oh right, that one's crazy, yeah, or like twenty
Speaker 2: like something great. Yeah, I'm still in college. So he
Speaker 2: also then fruit, you know, everyone loves fruit of the
Speaker 2: Poisonous Tree. And then maybe that's the tattoo I guess.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, is that merch fruit of the
Speaker 1: Poisonous tes? Oh my god, I saw the funniest meme.
Speaker 1: It is totally me.
Speaker 2: Hold on, let me fucking I've never been I've actually
Speaker 2: been read a couple times with the memes. Really come
Speaker 2: after me, Okay, this is the meme tattoos. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 2: it'll lasts forever sticker, what if I regret this placement?
Speaker 2: So true? That's good.
Speaker 1: They got you good. It's so fucking true.
Speaker 2: Got your ass fruit of the poisonous tree. So Casey said,
Speaker 2: I mean Casey, like I wrote this, Casey, you have
Speaker 2: nothing like he You know they're cocky. She has nothing.
Speaker 2: You can't bring charge with the kids, so shut up.
Speaker 2: She says, you're gonna get the maximum and how she says,
Speaker 2: I smell a horse trade. She says, if you cooperate now,
Speaker 2: I can make it thirty years total for all the crimes.
Speaker 2: As she goes, you cannot prove intent. And I didn't
Speaker 2: even know that was part of this conversation, was intent,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like?
Speaker 1: And did we get evidence all of a sudden?
Speaker 2: Are you right that like they can do the DNA
Speaker 2: now like they like everything's out, the rattles out, Like
Speaker 2: I don't get what's happening. So has she's like twenty
Speaker 2: five with the possibility of parole and we can chat
Speaker 2: and Luda goes, no, we don't, and Nova goes, well,
Speaker 2: that's the final offer. Has She says we need time
Speaker 2: to chat, and Darius goes, no, there is no chat.
Speaker 1: I'm not making a deal.
Speaker 2: I want my dan core and Finn says take the offer,
Speaker 2: and Darius says, go to hell, kiss my ass, and
Speaker 2: while you're down there, spread them because you're about to
Speaker 2: get done.
Speaker 1: But he says fucked. His mouth says fucked, and his
Speaker 1: voiceover says done. I rewatched it three times. You're about
Speaker 1: to get fucked, Like I wonder if he like ad
Speaker 1: libbed that, and they were like, that's good. We just
Speaker 1: have to make it network appropriate. Like his mouth is
Speaker 1: saying fucked, like yeah, whoa, I gotta I didn't catch that. Wow,
Speaker 1: I was focused on the spreading. And he says, oh,
Speaker 1: it's about the family, and Darius goes, yep, every single
Speaker 1: last one of you is gonna have to be in
Speaker 1: that courtroom like family reunion. You're gonna have to testify
Speaker 1: your lives out in the open for everybody to judge,
Speaker 1: like you've all done to me since day one. They're
Speaker 1: gonna know what kind of cop you are and what
Speaker 1: kind of husband and father you weren't. They're gonna know
Speaker 1: about my brother's sexual habits, and it's like he's just gay,
Speaker 1: but collusion, and everyone's gonna wonder why he's not being
Speaker 1: charged either, and maybe his cop father helped cover up.
Speaker 1: Makes for a nice headline and a no good mother
Speaker 1: is dead, the baby is missing, even though the baby
Speaker 1: is fucking better off, and he goes, sure, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go to prison, but not for as long as you think.
Speaker 1: And once to sir, Randal takes the stand and has
Speaker 1: to tell the truth, and his lips quiver. That festering
Speaker 1: bitch is gonna have to claim me for the first
Speaker 1: time in her miserable life. And let's see her shake
Speaker 1: me after that, And Finn looks at him, and he
Speaker 1: keeps going, you want to bury me, go ahead, because
Speaker 1: I'm taking you all down with me. When I do,
Speaker 1: and Finn keeps looking. It's a flute noise. Finn walks out,
Speaker 1: Munch has some cuffed. Terry arrives, Ludas scowls at her.
Speaker 1: She says, Darius, like finally her heart softens for a second,
Speaker 1: like she has hated him forever, and he keeps scowling
Speaker 1: as they drag him away, and then it's a close
Speaker 1: up on Finn and he has a lot of emotions
Speaker 1: on his face and it's dick wolf baby. I mean,
Speaker 1: why does he say the baby's missing and better off
Speaker 1: you buried the baby alive. We found him, Like.
Speaker 2: Maybe they didn't find the baby and they just found
Speaker 2: the blanket and the mom. No, because on the lungs.
Speaker 2: Soil was in the lungs.
Speaker 5: Ugh.
Speaker 1: Well, you're not gonna love the real case because it's
Speaker 1: pretty close. So this one is based pretty on the
Speaker 1: nose with the Actually it's the Raymond it's the Raymond
Speaker 1: Levi Cobb case, and Novak actually references it when she's
Speaker 1: talking to Lois Preston about Cobb versus Texas. So let
Speaker 1: me get into this. So on December twenty seventh, a
Speaker 1: couple of days after Christmas nineteen ninety three, the home
Speaker 1: of Lindsay and Margaret Owings in rural Huntsville, Texas is burglarized.
Speaker 1: Lindsay is a man. Just for any confusion, Lindsay calls
Speaker 1: the Walk You knew it would be confused, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: wait who Okay? So Lindsay calls the Walker County Sheriff's
Speaker 1: Office and reports a burglary that a stereo and a
Speaker 1: VCR are missing, but also kind of important, my wife
Speaker 1: and my sixteen year old daughter, Corey Ray are also
Speaker 1: They called around to her friends. No one had heard
Speaker 1: from her all day. Authorities are searching for her, but
Speaker 1: they come up with nothing. Obviously, they suspect the husband.
Speaker 1: He took several polygraphs and he passed them all and
Speaker 1: the authorities kind of started to come around on him
Speaker 1: not being the guy, but the community did not let up,
Speaker 1: like they all thought he was behind it. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, small town, everyone's like, you killed your wife. Whatever.
Speaker 1: So the case went cold for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: Like in February of ninety four, they got a tip
Speaker 1: that the across the street neighbor, seventeen year old Raymond
Speaker 1: Levit Cobb, might be involved in the burglary. They had
Speaker 1: initially questioned Cobb, but he had denied any involvement, and
Speaker 1: then this tip led to the recovery of the stolen
Speaker 1: items in Cobb's home. On July fifteen, nineteen ninety four, Cobb,
Speaker 1: who was under arrest in an unrelated case actually like
Speaker 1: a drug case or I think a drug charge, gave
Speaker 1: a statement confessing to the burglary. But denying having anything
Speaker 1: to do with the disappearance of the woman and the child.
Speaker 1: So like, they found the stereo in the VCR in
Speaker 1: this kid's house and they're like you did it, and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, I confessed with the burglary. I had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the other stuff. He did tell
Speaker 1: them during that interrogation that he had a feeling the
Speaker 1: bodies might be in the woods nearby. Okay, bro, like
Speaker 1: you're telling on yourself. That's when they started to feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: this kid has something to do with it. Cobb's lawyer,
Speaker 1: Hal Ridley, his lawyer in the burglary case, like his
Speaker 1: Hashi Horowitz, gave authorities permission to question him in August
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty four, and in September of nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: five because the authorities told him he's not a suspect.
Speaker 1: Then in November of nineteen ninety five. So now at
Speaker 1: this point it's almost two years. They've really not gotten
Speaker 1: anywhere in this case. They found who robbed them, They
Speaker 1: found the burglary guy, but they don't know where the mom,
Speaker 1: where the mom, is the baby anything. Cobb's father, Charles Cobb,
Speaker 1: concerned about his son after his son like drank too
Speaker 1: much and started getting violent with his pregnant girlfriend. He
Speaker 1: later went to his son's apartment in Odessa, Texas, which
Speaker 1: is Friday night Lights territory. Well, also were Connor stories from.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know that. I did. Of course, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: You get out of it because you know if you
Speaker 1: read that, like I read the book of Friday Night
Speaker 1: Lights for sociology class in school, and it was like
Speaker 1: the only way to get out of for college, and
Speaker 1: the only way to get out of Odessa is like
Speaker 1: to play football.
Speaker 2: But not Connor story.
Speaker 1: He got out of there acting.
Speaker 2: So anyway because photos surfaced of him from a few
Speaker 2: weeks ago at a gas station in Texas, like he
Speaker 2: was back home visiting, I think, and all these he
Speaker 2: took photos of people at the gas station and he
Speaker 2: had a jeep Rubicon.
Speaker 1: Oh that's very high school hot guy, I know. He
Speaker 1: But this guy so Odessa, by the way, and Huntsville,
Speaker 1: like where this is all happening is like seventy miles
Speaker 1: away from Houston. I think north, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: So the dad goes to his son's apartment in Odessa, Texas,
Speaker 1: hometown of Connor story, to try to like talk to him,
Speaker 1: and he's like, tell me what's going on with you?
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And on November eleventh, nineteen ninety five, Charles Cobb goes
Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's office and tells them that my son
Speaker 1: has confessed to him that he killed Margaret during the burglary.
Speaker 1: So the dad hold on his son. Yes, so they
Speaker 1: arrest Cobb and they bring him in for questioning, and
Speaker 1: after ninety minutes of questioning, he admits to killing Margaret
Speaker 1: and Corey Ray. And Margaret had confronted him during the burglary,
Speaker 1: like lunged at him, and so he stabbed her in
Speaker 1: the stomach. There's some he sort of tried to say,
Speaker 1: I was holding a knife and she ran into it,
Speaker 1: and it's like nobody buys that he was trying to
Speaker 1: like downplay it. But so then this is off. What
Speaker 1: happens next He brings her body out to a wooded
Speaker 1: area close to the house. Then he goes back to
Speaker 1: the house to get a shovel. He because I don't know,
Speaker 1: he didn't have one, like in the trunk of his
Speaker 1: car from his dad, and he spotted a sleep the
Speaker 1: sleeping baby, So he grabs the shovel and the sleeping baby.
Speaker 1: He could have just left her there, but he brings
Speaker 1: he brings her out to where the mother's body is.
Speaker 1: Then he starts digging the grave. Okay, at some point,
Speaker 1: little Corey Ray wakes up and starts like moving towards
Speaker 1: her mom, but falls into the open grave. No claims
Speaker 1: the guy, and he just put the mom's dead body
Speaker 1: in there with her and filled it up like nightmare fuel.
Speaker 1: Like I know they said ludicrous did this, but like
Speaker 1: this happened in real life too, Like it's so horrible.
Speaker 1: This guy is seventeen years old, Like this is psychotic,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's the same everybody was saying the
Speaker 1: same shit that Kragan was saying about Darius, Like that
Speaker 1: little girl couldn't have idd you, she couldn't have testified
Speaker 1: against you. She's sixteen months old. You could have left her,
Speaker 1: Like what why did you do that? You know, it's
Speaker 1: really really nightmarish. And then he goes back into the house,
Speaker 1: takes the stereo, the VCR videotapes, and a bottle of tequila,
Speaker 1: like really unhinged. After he confesses, he brings the cops
Speaker 1: to his apartment, where he shows them his knife collection
Speaker 1: and is basically like I don't.
Speaker 2: Really remember which one is the murder REPM.
Speaker 1: But here are my knives and then the wedding ring
Speaker 1: that he took off of this woman's dead body. So
Speaker 1: like I'm like this, I wrote, this is a psychopath,
Speaker 1: Like if you have the presence of mine to take
Speaker 1: a wedding ring off of a woman you just killed,
Speaker 1: and then also like grab a stereo and like you
Speaker 1: know that shit, it's like you're missing a chip. Something
Speaker 1: is going wrong in your head. He also, because I
Speaker 1: can understand if he was like, oh no, I'm going
Speaker 1: to get caught with this burglary, I have to kill
Speaker 1: her about like everything else he did after that is
Speaker 1: really really psychopathic to me. So he also takes them
Speaker 1: to the wooded area behind the house where he buries
Speaker 1: the body so much like in the episode he shows them.
Speaker 1: So two years after the disappearance, the bodies of Margaret
Speaker 1: and Corey Ray are finally found. Obviously, the husband, Lindsay,
Speaker 1: is like relieved in a sense because he's like, now
Speaker 1: everybody can stop thinking that I murdered my wife and child,
Speaker 1: and I can also mourn them, because I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sure he knew they were gone gone at some point.
Speaker 1: So his lawyer, Cobb's lawyer in the burglary case, is
Speaker 1: furious that he hadn't been contacted before they questioned Cobb
Speaker 1: about the murder and that his subsequent confession like that
Speaker 1: they never called him during that whole process, and so
Speaker 1: he motioned to have the confession thrown out on the
Speaker 1: grounds that his sixth Amendment right to counsel had been violated.
Speaker 1: The judge did not go for it and Cobb. They
Speaker 1: said Cobb had been mirandized and did not ask for counsel,
Speaker 1: and they found his confession to be lawful and voluntary.
Speaker 1: So he is a reigned on capital murder charges, and
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen ninety seven his trial begins. He
Speaker 1: is convicted and gets the death penalty pretty quickly after that.
Speaker 1: And then three years later, in two thousand, Cobb's defense
Speaker 1: team appealed and once again said his right to council
Speaker 1: was violated, and the Court of Criminal Appeals of Texas
Speaker 1: did overturn his conviction on appeal in a vote of
Speaker 1: six to three. Everyone is stunned, shocked, pissed, like they
Speaker 1: take it to the Supreme Court of the United States
Speaker 1: which agrees to hear the case, and they eventually reverse
Speaker 1: the decision by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, and
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court states that the sixth Amendment right to
Speaker 1: council is offense specific and attaches to charged and sufficiently
Speaker 1: related uncharged offenses, not necessarily offenses factual related to those
Speaker 1: that have actually been charged. So just because they charged
Speaker 1: him for the burglary, which was connected, it was like,
Speaker 1: it's that's a different offense that he was being charged for.
Speaker 1: So he didn't have the right to counsel there, And
Speaker 1: he was properly mirandized and could have asked for counsel
Speaker 1: at any time and did not. And I think in
Speaker 1: this case, we know ludacrous sort of like planned this,
Speaker 1: but in this case, I definitely don't think this kid
Speaker 1: had anything planned. So five years later, in early two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, Cobb was twenty eight years old, and
Speaker 1: he became one of seventy two death row inmates whose
Speaker 1: sentences were commuted after Roper versus Simmons, a Supreme Court
Speaker 1: ruling found that the Constitution prohibits the execution of people
Speaker 1: who were under eighteen when they committed their crimes. So
Speaker 1: this guy is involved now in two The one of
Speaker 1: the cases is Cobb versus Texas, which is this landmark
Speaker 1: case that like you actually don't have a right to counsel,
Speaker 1: like built in if you're charged with something else, you
Speaker 1: always have a right to counsel, of course. And then
Speaker 1: the second one was he actually got his life sentence commuted.
Speaker 1: So and David Weeks, who is the DA who prosecuted him,
Speaker 1: was obviously not happy to see a sentence commuted. Although
Speaker 1: like when this just when this Supreme Court decision passed
Speaker 1: about the being under eighteen, like so many of the
Speaker 1: cases were in Texas, like Texas like loves the death penalty,
Speaker 1: loves to kill people that are under eighteen, like loved
Speaker 1: it at the time. Now it's changed. And David Weeks,
Speaker 1: the DA who prosecuted him, said, quote, the way he
Speaker 1: carried out the crime tells you more than what his
Speaker 1: physical age was. There are people younger than eighteen out
Speaker 1: there who are as scary as anybody you can come across.
Speaker 1: They're just wired differently. If ever, there was a crime
Speaker 1: that the death penalty was designed to punish, that was it.
Speaker 1: And I mean he's not totally. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: really believe in the death penalty. I think he can
Speaker 1: rot in prison for the rest of his life. But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he the way that this crime came about was really
Speaker 1: like very born psychopath. But he's still in prison today.
Speaker 1: He'd probably be around forty eight years old, forty eight,
Speaker 1: forty nine. And that's where they got the Luda crime devastating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like really really so terrible, and honestly, there's not a
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page about this crime, Like there's not like there's
Speaker 1: a really bad murder Pedia page about it, but like
Speaker 1: I had to look at court documents. I had to
Speaker 1: find like a little crime documentary that was like there
Speaker 1: just wasn't a lot. There's not you know, like usually
Speaker 1: there's a Wikipedia page about like the killer the crime,
Speaker 1: Like there's there's a Wikipedia page about the Supreme Court ruling,
Speaker 1: but really like to get the details of the crime itself,
Speaker 1: you had to go I had to go into like
Speaker 1: the court documents and everything. So yeah, interestingly, this case
Speaker 1: is it's so horrific, but it's kind of only relevant
Speaker 1: because of the Supreme Court ruling around.
Speaker 2: It's like the only reason that it's Yeah, killing the
Speaker 2: babies takes it to a new level that.
Speaker 1: You didn't need I mean that I don't know, like
Speaker 1: I could guess some psycho killers are like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: a seven year old. They're gonna say who I am.
Speaker 1: They're going to testify. I've got to get rid of
Speaker 1: all the.
Speaker 2: Evidence, Like, oh yeah, we canna understand that that I'd
Speaker 2: be like, you're a psycho, but you're covering up your crimes.
Speaker 1: This is like you just were like, oh and then alive.
Speaker 1: It's like it's just so horrific. Anyway, Anyway, it's bad.
Speaker 1: But we have a wild interview coming up, so don't
Speaker 1: anybody go anywhere, all right, guys, today's guest is an
Speaker 1: SVU legend.
Speaker 2: You may know him.
Speaker 1: We know him for his roles in two classic nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight movies, Beaches and Big Business, two of our
Speaker 1: Absolute Waves. He has also been in two of the
Speaker 1: original Naked God movies. But you know him best as
Speaker 1: defense attorney turned judge Hashi Horowitz. Please enjoy our chat
Speaker 1: with Joe Grifassi. If we get into your tenure as
Speaker 1: Hashi Horowitz, you defend some pretty bad men as she is.
Speaker 4: The King of Sleeves Bay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, defense attorneys.
Speaker 5: In fact, that was my first you know, to go
Speaker 5: back to that when that started, I mean, as you
Speaker 5: had been on for a year and then really a
Speaker 5: good friend of mine who I got it. It's a
Speaker 5: shout out to how do you shout out to a
Speaker 5: person that's deceased and you can't, but I mean you
Speaker 5: hope you do. But he was a wonderful guy and
Speaker 5: a brilliant direct named Jonathan Kaplan who had done a
Speaker 5: lot of films, had a pedigree in his family. He
Speaker 5: was Van Heflin's nephew. His father was blacklisted from MGM
Speaker 5: in the fifties. But he and he took what he
Speaker 5: knew from learning that business right all the way into
Speaker 5: television and into SVU because when when he called me,
Speaker 5: I had already done a movie of the Week with
Speaker 5: him when he called me.
Speaker 4: By the way, he won Jody Foster and.
Speaker 5: Oscar for the accused of Oh yeah, brilliant film director. Yeah,
Speaker 5: he had great films and he when he directed, he
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, that was the one, let's go.
Speaker 4: You know. He didn't dick her around. He knew, you know,
Speaker 4: because he learned that way.
Speaker 5: And yeah, he was the one that said, you know,
Speaker 5: all these great shots we've done with you and her
Speaker 5: and all the interplay says, forget about it because once
Speaker 5: they get it into the editing. With SVU and Law
Speaker 5: and Order generally the early period, I remember, especially you guys.
Speaker 4: Would know this.
Speaker 5: They did this big head stuff, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: everything went to the big head. And what you don't
Speaker 5: see is that the scene that was played in the
Speaker 5: medium shots or even in the two shots was some
Speaker 5: great chemistry.
Speaker 2: You know. But uh episode of SVU is one of
Speaker 2: my favorite top two episodes. I would say, yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean the shootout in the court, that whole episode.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the twitter was that the one with the.
Speaker 1: With the races white nationalists?
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, So it was great because Jonathan when he
Speaker 5: called me up, he said, Yoe, I want you to
Speaker 5: do this. He says, Heshi, He says, I know he's
Speaker 5: you know, I think he's like a public defender. And
Speaker 5: he says, and you're going to defend uh an area
Speaker 5: nation guy, And I said, oh, that's wonderful. And he
Speaker 5: was the one that put the stamp on the character
Speaker 5: and told the producers because they really liked they wanted
Speaker 5: him to come to New York, but he wouldn't.
Speaker 4: He was doing the r at the time.
Speaker 5: And uh, they said, uh, he said, this guy's great
Speaker 5: because he's like a real public defender. He has to
Speaker 5: take whatever Helly gets, and for the Jew to get the.
Speaker 4: Nazi is perfect, you know what I mean. I think
Speaker 4: at one point, doesn't he say he wonderful actor by
Speaker 4: the way played the cop or the guy. Didn't he
Speaker 4: say I don't know, ask my Jew or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that episode is wild that it
Speaker 2: was on NBC with some of the language in it,
Speaker 2: but also still relevant today, like so much of s
Speaker 2: for you, Like yeah, case is like it's like so
Speaker 2: if it aired this year, it would make sense.
Speaker 4: It was great because.
Speaker 5: For me it's cemented who my character would be in
Speaker 5: the future. Because I was kind of like, you know,
Speaker 5: I have to do this, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: This is not only I always we Jonathan. I used
Speaker 5: to joke, I said, I have to do this, not
Speaker 5: just because it's my job, because it's my tumudic responsibility,
Speaker 5: you know, to.
Speaker 4: See justice, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: And I love playing that And I spent considerable time
Speaker 5: down at the courts years earlier because when I did,
Speaker 5: I did a film called.
Speaker 4: Presumed Innocent with my old friend Brad Whitford, who I
Speaker 4: heard crazy Bread. It was just like the second assistant
Speaker 4: to the left. He played role Julia's assistant in the
Speaker 4: in that one.
Speaker 5: And uh and we we spent time down at at
Speaker 5: the court. You know Alan Pacola, who was a genius director.
Speaker 5: I loved him and he he said, I want you
Speaker 5: to go spend time.
Speaker 4: So we spent.
Speaker 5: I spent a couple of weeks with the I sat
Speaker 5: it on cases and and so I got to see
Speaker 5: the kind of cool, relaxed interplay that goes on. You
Speaker 5: know that you don't some son seat like well, before
Speaker 5: they bring the jury in, the judge and the the
Speaker 5: defense lawyers are like, you know, their buddy, buddy, you
Speaker 5: know what I'm saying. In fact, there's a dick Wolf
Speaker 5: would know all about this.
Speaker 4: Of course there was.
Speaker 5: There's a famous bar down in in Chinatown behind City
Speaker 5: Hall by the courtroom.
Speaker 4: It's called for Leeni's.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: There's an episode of the show called Last Call at
Speaker 1: for Leanies from like one of the more recent seasons.
Speaker 4: Probably because I don't know if it's closed. I went
Speaker 4: there and had a bull of tripe about three years
Speaker 4: ago old.
Speaker 7: So for Leanie's was great because when you go to
Speaker 7: for Leanie's, you see the defense attorneys and prosecutors sitting
Speaker 7: at the same table, you know, and uh, and what's
Speaker 7: his name would be.
Speaker 5: There all the time at his table. Oh geez, who
Speaker 5: was the famous DA in New York? And my my
Speaker 5: brain is.
Speaker 1: Shocked real life. Yeah, I'm not gonna run.
Speaker 4: At his own table. You know.
Speaker 2: Do you have some favorite judges or a das that
Speaker 2: you would go up against during your SVU time?
Speaker 5: Let me think, oh, yeah, well, Stephanie March would be
Speaker 5: one of them.
Speaker 1: And uh, dian Neel Dianel, I thought you were gonna
Speaker 1: say yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought you.
Speaker 1: Guys have such a great chemistry in this episode Venom
Speaker 1: that we're talking about today that I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure he's gonna say unless it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where no on screen is that you actually hate
Speaker 1: each other in real life.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, how could you hate her?
Speaker 1: I know, she's been a guest on our podcast twice.
Speaker 2: She's one of our the other one.
Speaker 5: Too, because I mean, you guys, you guys are really
Speaker 5: good at this.
Speaker 4: I mean you are like you are like, you know,
Speaker 4: sort of I don't know how to describe it. You know,
Speaker 4: a brutal energy.
Speaker 1: Or or put it on a T shirt, Joe, we're gonna.
Speaker 4: Make like happiness. I don't know. Yeah, I like, I
Speaker 4: like those opposite things.
Speaker 5: But anyway, she working together, she's the best. But you know,
Speaker 5: this is goes back to what I said before. If
Speaker 5: you'll see there's a walk and talk scene in that
Speaker 5: episode with me and Diane and we're Those kind of
Speaker 5: scenes make me thrilled to do though, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean for actors, especially stage actors. I think even
Speaker 5: Brad talked about it. And you know, I didn't know
Speaker 5: that was the first time working with her. I didn't
Speaker 5: know what her experience was. I was a devote you
Speaker 5: might say, of thirties and forties American comedy, you know,
Speaker 5: especially in films like you know, for me, the first
Speaker 5: scene of His Girl Friday is it you know if
Speaker 5: you can, you know, And that's pretty much a two
Speaker 5: shot where Carrie Grant and Rosalind Russell just.
Speaker 4: Never lose a beat. That it's a brilliant scene.
Speaker 5: But to be able to do that, and it was
Speaker 5: a two shot, and because they put a side by side,
Speaker 5: they couldn't do the big head because they couldn't do
Speaker 5: the reverses.
Speaker 4: You know, the judge, she was sitting at the desk, so.
Speaker 5: They kept us in frame and it was great because
Speaker 5: we're arguing at the desk, trying to make our points.
Speaker 5: You know, they didn't know, but you know what I mean, but.
Speaker 2: You knew you were going to win, and you know,
Speaker 2: like you came in smug as hell into that court.
Speaker 4: No smug at all. I didn't think I did smoke.
Speaker 2: But he knew that he was going to get this
Speaker 2: guy off. Like that was fun.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and ludicrous was good.
Speaker 5: I mean I really, you know, I he was like,
Speaker 5: first of all, I walk on the set and I
Speaker 5: didn't know.
Speaker 4: I didn't know. I didn't know who he was. You know,
Speaker 4: I heard his name.
Speaker 5: He was really sweet and he really wanted to act.
Speaker 5: And there was one take I remember when he was
Speaker 5: you know it was it was it was his long
Speaker 5: speech and close up in that interrogation and.
Speaker 4: They we had to.
Speaker 5: Go you know, sometimes with people who are new at it,
Speaker 5: especially in TV, because the way it works, you have
Speaker 5: to go back in the front for a line or
Speaker 5: something or or get off it.
Speaker 4: And he says, I remember.
Speaker 5: Saying, oh I can do this, don't worry I can
Speaker 5: do this. You know, he really wanted to eat.
Speaker 4: He was arrogant at all, and he did that one
Speaker 4: take and he was just grand in it. I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, that long one.
Speaker 5: Great yeah, and it was such a good take that
Speaker 5: I have lines and somebody else, but they never cut
Speaker 5: to us because you know, the sustained take was so great.
Speaker 5: And besides, you know the old adigend movies which I've
Speaker 5: lived through as a character actor.
Speaker 4: My whole life is cut to the money. You know,
Speaker 4: so when you're on scene, you're on screen.
Speaker 5: With a really name actor like I was with Richard
Speaker 5: Pryor or Harrison Ford, don't expect in the editing room
Speaker 5: all those wonderful shots of your reactions to go anywhere.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, that is so funny. Well, okay, so wildly.
Speaker 2: You're in both of our favorite movies, what from the eighties,
Speaker 2: both with Bette Midler, So Big Business is my number
Speaker 2: one favorite movie.
Speaker 1: Of all time. And then Kara and Mine is Beaches.
Speaker 1: She had Beaches the Party, and I had two Beaches
Speaker 1: seen birthday parties when I was in third and fourth grade.
Speaker 1: And I can't believe I'm speaking to Auto tits like himself.
Speaker 1: This is invenoring crowd had nothing to get very worked
Speaker 1: up about.
Speaker 4: Can we digress? Can I talk about those two movies?
Speaker 2: Great stories about yes, this is our dream that this was.
Speaker 4: So much fun. Oh, I got so many stories. I'll
Speaker 4: tell you one though.
Speaker 5: Like, for example, there was a wonderful producer named Mike
Speaker 5: Piser who used to do all the Woody Allen's and
Speaker 5: then he moved out to California, so he's doing this.
Speaker 5: I got that job because I got a call Noon
Speaker 5: says can you come right now to meet Jim Abrams.
Speaker 5: Somebody backed out of the apart and I went and
Speaker 5: I got the role. I was like, I guess I'm
Speaker 5: not moving out of New York. I was thinking about
Speaker 5: commuting or something. Anyway, I get the roll and get
Speaker 5: on there and and Jim is great. He was, you know,
Speaker 5: part of zazz Zucker Abram Zucker. You know they are airplane.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all the naked naked I saw you're in
Speaker 1: all the naked guns here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean those.
Speaker 4: Guys were genius.
Speaker 5: They were a bunch of guys that came out of
Speaker 5: Milwaukee doing sketch comedy on stage. So so big business
Speaker 5: is like, and it's got this wonderful cast and and.
Speaker 2: Uh and you guys shot at the hotel, right, did
Speaker 2: you shoot at the Plaza?
Speaker 1: No, now, we.
Speaker 4: Shot the externals at the Plaza.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 1: Everything was a set. Okay, we were on this big.
Speaker 5: Set on the Disney lot and it was very formidable looking.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it looked like plaster and everything.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: Mike Piser said to me, Disney unlike any other uh
Speaker 5: you know, uh company who worked for They have product
Speaker 5: placement like nobody's business. You know, they'll take a nickel
Speaker 5: from somebody, you know. But the funniest one was I
Speaker 5: have a moment if you remember where I go in
Speaker 5: Uh what's his name? Uh, Michel Placido, who's a big
Speaker 5: star in Italy. I didn't know that plays the Latino guy.
Speaker 5: He was into the gift shop to get something and
Speaker 5: for one of them, and I walk in next and
Speaker 5: I stop in front of the thing with prophylactics on it,
Speaker 5: you know, and it's got it's got like it's loaded
Speaker 5: with Trojans, you know what I mean. So it's kind
Speaker 5: of a great scene. It's mos me. It was no
Speaker 5: sounds that it was easy. It was fun I grabbed
Speaker 5: one and I had an idea and I said, Jim,
Speaker 5: I'll watch this.
Speaker 4: I took one, I went two, you know, like it's
Speaker 4: gonna be a big night, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean?
Speaker 5: And I walk away and he said, oh, that's great,
Speaker 5: cot could we can move on? And suddenly the prop
Speaker 5: woman comes yelling, no stop, God, we have to do
Speaker 5: it again. You don't usually hear that. And he goes,
Speaker 5: what are you talking about? He goes Disney's dealers with
Speaker 5: lifestyles and we had Trojans on.
Speaker 2: God, Oh my god, this is Disney right.
Speaker 5: And I didn't know mice used prophylactics, but I found
Speaker 5: out that day.
Speaker 1: And then he got punched in the face.
Speaker 5: And Jim, I gotta say, because there's such great We
Speaker 5: both done sketch comedy on stage, so we had an
Speaker 5: impulse to do like that. And he said, uh, how
Speaker 5: are we gonna stage this? And I said I have
Speaker 5: an idea. I said, I have an idea. You can
Speaker 5: do it, no wonder He said, how is that? I says,
Speaker 5: let me go to the.
Speaker 4: Door and knock.
Speaker 5: It does cut to her answering, but basically the same shot.
Speaker 5: It's like it's it's it's my POV on her. She
Speaker 5: answers the door and I grab her sweater and say,
Speaker 5: I used to be allergic to angora, but no more,
Speaker 5: you know, And which time she wils me and I said, Jim,
Speaker 5: I said, I said, give me a mat.
Speaker 4: You give me a mat behind me.
Speaker 5: I flipped around and I went like that and I
Speaker 5: fell out a frame and it left her with a
Speaker 5: close up, you know, and she does that little thing
Speaker 5: with the with the thing.
Speaker 4: But yeah, the movie was, uh, it was. It was
Speaker 4: just great to work on it and never forget it.
Speaker 5: And then a year, a couple of years later, I
Speaker 5: get a phone I get a phone call from Bonnie Bruckheimer,
Speaker 5: who was best, good friend and producer, you know, and
Speaker 5: she says, Joe, we're doing this movie and there's a
Speaker 5: musical number in it.
Speaker 4: Can you dance?
Speaker 5: And I had been in some musicals, so I did dance,
Speaker 5: you know, as a comic dancer, I guess.
Speaker 4: So I said, yeah, she goes, you got anything that
Speaker 4: shows you dancing? So I did a video.
Speaker 5: I have a pair of I have one pair of
Speaker 5: black tights which I had from drama school days as
Speaker 5: a whole right in the back, a little hole.
Speaker 4: So and I wear tidy whities. So I did a
Speaker 4: dance with it.
Speaker 5: I did a little put a little like three minute
Speaker 5: thing to Swan Lake in my living room, and I
Speaker 5: turned around and showed this little thing and I ended
Speaker 5: it with it like a pseudo Barushnikov move.
Speaker 4: Apparently she liked it.
Speaker 5: Oh and then she says, is there anyone I can
Speaker 5: ask about your dancing?
Speaker 4: So I just got to be sure, because it's going
Speaker 4: to be a real dance number. I said.
Speaker 5: Called Graciela Daniella. She was the great, you know, choreographer
Speaker 5: on Broadway. We'd worked twice and I got the job
Speaker 5: and I saw Grassiew months later, I said, what did
Speaker 5: you say?
Speaker 4: Obviously it was, she goes. I told them the truth.
Speaker 4: She says, you know, if you want barish Niko, I
Speaker 4: forget about it. But if you want to laugh, get him,
Speaker 4: you know, you know. And I and and that was amazing.
Speaker 5: We went out every day to the Debbie Rentals studios
Speaker 5: in the valley and really rehearsed it like serious number stuff,
Speaker 5: you know, And uh, it was.
Speaker 4: It was. It was great.
Speaker 5: And Gary Marshall was wacky Gary, you know, he was
Speaker 5: fun to work with. I used to I did Flamingo
Speaker 5: Kid with him years earlier, and he would he was
Speaker 5: so laid back. You didn't know if he had a
Speaker 5: pulse sometime when he was directing, but he kind of
Speaker 5: knew it was funny.
Speaker 4: Bet was great, I mean she actually loved you.
Speaker 5: Know, when we were doing the Week of Choreography, she
Speaker 5: was almost happier, you know what I mean, because that's
Speaker 5: like that's like hermechier.
Speaker 4: You know, that's what she was doing for you years. Yeah,
Speaker 4: when she was doing her shows, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just looked up Vannie Bruckheimer and she
Speaker 2: also did Hocus Pocus, I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and her husband was Jerry Bruckhremer.
Speaker 1: Well, of course I saw that. I am dB, I assumed.
Speaker 4: So I want to just.
Speaker 5: Say, going back to us VU, yeah that doing that,
Speaker 5: that those quick snappy dialogue scenes, which the thing I
Speaker 5: loved about it was uh and you can see it.
Speaker 5: I felt like we were both on that day. We
Speaker 5: both had our intentions were very strong. And sometimes you know,
Speaker 5: actors on television they don't you know, we know as
Speaker 5: stage actors that you have to have really an intention.
Speaker 5: You want it's something you want, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: And she's striving for it, and I'm striving for it
Speaker 5: and it just keeps creating. But with Stephanie March, I
Speaker 5: never expect did this, but we did it. We did
Speaker 5: exactly the same scene in a sense that it's the
Speaker 5: two of us facing as judge and arguing our point,
Speaker 5: but in chambers, so you know, we can say anything
Speaker 5: we want.
Speaker 4: She was great.
Speaker 5: We're both trying to like, you shut up so I
Speaker 5: can speak, you know, kind of like that, you know,
Speaker 5: Stephanie March was. I loved her. I thought she had
Speaker 5: something really because she could she could play severe, you
Speaker 5: know what I mean. And and but it was but
Speaker 5: it was interesting, you know, and she didn't back off
Speaker 5: from it. She didn't try to soften the edge. So
Speaker 5: maybe the TV audience will like me a bit, you know.
Speaker 1: No, she went after those criminals.
Speaker 2: She did.
Speaker 5: And if did you ever see did you ever see?
Speaker 5: I was in the pilot and it was one of
Speaker 5: the very few dick Wolf shows that probably never went
Speaker 5: past pilot, or maybe it did. It's called conviction. Did
Speaker 5: you ever see any of that? Oh you never did?
Speaker 5: I can send you, I can link you to the episode.
Speaker 5: I have a copy of the episode.
Speaker 4: Oh it's fun. There was supposed to be this grant.
Speaker 5: He was at his full powers and all the shows
Speaker 5: were running full blast at that time, and this new
Speaker 5: one looked really good. It was all about the young
Speaker 5: prosecutors in the New York Prosecutor's Office, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean. And they're all these young and he was smart.
Speaker 5: He said, let's get some young actors who are going
Speaker 5: to go places, because you know, we have shows with
Speaker 5: old actors.
Speaker 4: Now they're legacy people, you know. So this was really
Speaker 4: a great idea. And I remember, forget the first read through.
Speaker 5: But because they were young, Dick was there and he said,
Speaker 5: now I want you to know something. When it's on
Speaker 5: the page, I expected you to say it. He says,
Speaker 5: we don't really if it's going to be ed LIBBD
Speaker 5: or this. Nady says, well, you may just be looking
Speaker 5: for another job. He was like, you know, because he
Speaker 5: was tired of people coming in that. You know, we're
Speaker 5: doing the other thing. So in that show, Stephanie plays
Speaker 5: one of the lead prosecutors and she's nails.
Speaker 4: I mean, she is nails, you know.
Speaker 1: And how he plays cabot Off, Yeah, she plays the
Speaker 1: same care right right, oh right, yeah, you came back
Speaker 1: for the five hundredth episode.
Speaker 2: Was that fun? Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4: I was a judge in that right by that time.
Speaker 1: Yea yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: By the way, I have to correct the record here.
Speaker 5: What for some stupid reason, every time they list me,
Speaker 5: like in their literally online stuff or in IMDb, they
Speaker 5: totally get the name wrong. Some pa wrote it and
Speaker 5: they never raced it from the system. They call me
Speaker 5: Hashy Horoiz. His name is Hashy. It's Herschel. Okay, there
Speaker 5: ain't no Hashy.
Speaker 2: I mean you've heard it here. Thanks for doing, you know,
Speaker 2: setting the record.
Speaker 1: So you're saying it spelled h e s Chang.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's Herschel.
Speaker 2: There will our listeners will get this fixed, don't you worry,
Speaker 2: because it literally this will be he says under trivia
Speaker 2: for your character in the wiki of SVU, Hashi's name
Speaker 2: is misspelled as Hashi on Netflix and Prime So now
Speaker 2: like some Prime video actually have it correct.
Speaker 1: They've got some intern over there that knows the lore
Speaker 1: and that your name is well.
Speaker 4: I told him, many tell you.
Speaker 5: I banged my head against the wall saying can you say,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, well we Can's easy, you know, once it's out.
Speaker 1: There and once it's on IMDb. You know that's it.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I go there to see who I was.
Speaker 4: I literally don't know.
Speaker 5: I can't believe those that thing because I don't know,
Speaker 5: And then I go back. Sometimes I'll go back and
Speaker 5: actually see I swear it was. It was eighty three
Speaker 5: when I did that movie. Or No, No a Woman,
Speaker 5: It was eighty three when I bought that statue.
Speaker 4: I was what was I shooting in eighty three?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, you were in Spain, you know. Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: that's why I about the statue. You know, you could
Speaker 5: kind of grade your life when you get old that way.
Speaker 1: You know, you worked with Julie Taymoor.
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 1: Did you like it?
Speaker 4: I'll have to say, you know, just to be fair,
Speaker 4: give us the dirt.
Speaker 1: Joe tell us, who's horrible to work with?
Speaker 2: We love to hear it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What other gossip do you have? You've been You've been
Speaker 1: out there for decades. Oh.
Speaker 4: I did a seen years ago in a movie called Oh.
Speaker 5: It was based on a book Poper Greenwich Village, and
Speaker 5: I had to do some scenes with Eric Roberts, and uh,
Speaker 5: I don't know Eric.
Speaker 1: Nobody's got anything good to say about Eric Roberts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Eric that is contained in the word arrogant.
Speaker 4: But uh yeah, man, I mean he just.
Speaker 5: He It just bummed me because we were doing a
Speaker 5: scene and the director of photography wanted to run the
Speaker 5: camera mounted it on the back of the car. And
Speaker 5: John Bailey, who was a wonderful I think he might
Speaker 5: have been an OSCAR winner. He was on the car,
Speaker 5: a sweet guy, and Eric is driving the card. Oh,
Speaker 5: let's see what we can see what John? So he
Speaker 5: starts doing like speed turns to.
Speaker 4: Try to knock him off. You know, I'm going, uh
Speaker 4: that that kind of I was on.
Speaker 5: The verge of grabbing him, you know, and really, you know,
Speaker 5: but what are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: You know, and you were You've been in New York
Speaker 1: this whole time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 5: I only would go to LA to relocate for a
Speaker 5: series or or a movie or something like that, you know,
Speaker 5: And I realized at some point I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: I got to stay here because this is what I'm
Speaker 5: gonna get more work.
Speaker 4: And I was going something about it.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 4: I'm glad that that.
Speaker 5: Instinct because I never would have you know, I didn't
Speaker 5: want to fizzle out. It was it was weird and
Speaker 5: l and being out of work between jobs. Let's say
Speaker 5: ultra ultra employ you know, between jobs in LA is
Speaker 5: like a scourage. You're like, you're like you're wearing some
Speaker 5: kind of a badge on you.
Speaker 2: That's in New York.
Speaker 4: It's like, oh good, you got time to go have
Speaker 4: lunch and drink. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's fun.
Speaker 1: Do you know that?
Speaker 4: But you're in the city, right, Yeah, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: I'm in LA but I've got like two kids and
Speaker 1: a different thing. I like it here, but I also
Speaker 1: love New York. Joe, this was a pleasure. They can
Speaker 1: to talk to us. It's always great when we see
Speaker 1: you on the screen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, soon soon, that's all they'll be.
Speaker 1: And now we stop. Now we can spread the word.
Speaker 1: Hashy Horowitz. It's Hashi Horowitz. We're gonna spread the way.
Speaker 1: We're going to spread the.
Speaker 4: Would you please somebody get it right?
Speaker 2: Yes? It was a thrill, you know, I feel we're
Speaker 2: we're like a serial killer getting our little tokens.
Speaker 1: We're getting all our little souvenirs. We're getting our slides.
Speaker 1: We're putting our slides in our slide thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels incredible. I mean I can't believe we
Speaker 2: got to talk to him.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we got to talk to Hashi Horowitz
Speaker 1: and then he cleared up. I mean this, if you're
Speaker 1: a Wikipedia editor, you need to go in and like
Speaker 1: edit the like his name is supposed to be Heshi.
Speaker 1: It's Herschel, not Hashi. So that was a mistake some
Speaker 1: somebody made along the lines, and it's stuck. But I
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we got him for this episode, and
Speaker 1: we are leaving the second arc of this open for you. Ludacris.
Speaker 1: I know you're listening. We we just want you. We
Speaker 1: want to talk about your acting. You're so good. But
Speaker 1: this episode, I mean, he's scary in this episode, but
Speaker 1: the next one is really where he's terrifying.
Speaker 2: Well because he's smart, calm, and I planned all of this.
Speaker 2: I don't know, smart character and yeah, i'd have sex
Speaker 2: with the ludicrous yeah, and the you know the guy
Speaker 2: in the real life story. He's in jail forever.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure in Texas they really wanted his
Speaker 1: ass dead. But if you're seventeen, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not I'm against I'm against the death,
Speaker 1: but burying a baby alive. That's where you almost you know,
Speaker 1: you almost get me on the other side. But no, no,
Speaker 1: I think writing in jail is worse. That's why I
Speaker 1: think that I'm anti death penalty for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 1: But also spending your whole life thinking about what you
Speaker 1: did and not having your freedom is a worse punishment
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: But if you're a socio, yeah, you still want comfort,
Speaker 2: like you think about yourself. But I do wonder, like
Speaker 2: they're probably pissed they got caught. But I wonder if
Speaker 2: a socio, if they really feel nothing. They don't care
Speaker 2: if they're in jail.
Speaker 1: Right, but they probably do feel like that the food
Speaker 1: is disgusting and they have to shit in front of
Speaker 1: other people, and it's not a great life, right Like
Speaker 1: sure for me, like they're probably getting that that's a
Speaker 1: hot take. I don't know that they're like a learning
Speaker 1: a lesson, but they're definitely having a bad life. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this episode, yeah, we just we got to get ludicrous
Speaker 1: on here and then we'll finish the well, we'll close
Speaker 1: the loop on this story. Also, I love the woman
Speaker 1: that plays I love the woman that plays Finn's wife.
Speaker 1: Is she Sa Hamilton? Lisa Gay Hamilton. Uh is she Broadway?
Speaker 1: How do we know her from outside of well the
Speaker 1: practic stage as well the practice, right, that's how we
Speaker 1: know her.
Speaker 2: And it's Cynthia Nick, Miranda's neighbor with the vibrating chair
Speaker 2: for the baby.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was just listening to an interview with David E. Kelly,
Speaker 1: who was the producer of the Practice. How many you
Speaker 1: know and married to Michelle Pfeiffer, because he's made this show,
Speaker 1: Margo's Got Money Troubles. Have you heard of it or
Speaker 1: any I've never heard of it. What is it called?
Speaker 1: It's based on a book actually that a lot of
Speaker 1: people were reading and said was really great about Margot
Speaker 1: Has Money Troubles. And I think it's about a girl's start,
Speaker 1: like a young mom starts a OnlyFans, Yeah, a single mom.
Speaker 1: So and it's to quota, it's it's El Fanning, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, Michelle Pfeiffer. It's all coming back. So I've seen
Speaker 2: some press.
Speaker 1: I've seen something and El Fanning you're I know you're
Speaker 1: a big fan of so I am. How do you
Speaker 1: know that?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I just I feel like I just know that.
Speaker 1: You love the Fanning sisters, but you like talk about
Speaker 1: ll a lot and then she's so pretty. He was
Speaker 1: talking on the interview about how he won for Best
Speaker 1: Comedy for Ally McBeal the same year as he won
Speaker 1: for Best Drama for The Practice, I think Emmy's and
Speaker 1: that's like, never happened that someone wins both of their shows.
Speaker 1: And they beat the Sopranos that year, which he said,
Speaker 1: we were all very surprised. No one thought we were
Speaker 1: going to beat the Sopranos.
Speaker 2: But wow, you know, wow.
Speaker 1: So she's a talented guy.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's been making a hit television for thirty years.
Speaker 1: He writes his first drafts in pen on a piece
Speaker 1: of paper. That's my kind of guy. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I said. He's so against AI. Like the interviewer was
Speaker 1: asking him like, do you know how to email? Or
Speaker 1: does someone send your emails? Print your emails out for you?
Speaker 1: And he was like, no, I know how to email,
Speaker 1: Like but he does. He likes the old He's like,
Speaker 1: that's just what's worked for me forever. So that's what
Speaker 1: I do. The pen and paper it all. I personally
Speaker 1: don't think my hand would work writing for more than
Speaker 1: three minutes, Like I don't. My hand is not doesn't
Speaker 1: have the stamina. I put everything like I don't. I
Speaker 1: have friends that keep paper calendars and like, oh I
Speaker 1: prefer to handwrite. I'm like, I put everything in my phone,
Speaker 1: Like everything is digital. The vacuums are right outside the
Speaker 1: door right now. I don't know if you can hear them,
Speaker 1: but anyway, should we move on to what would Sister
Speaker 1: Peg do? Where was the Stavity Kelly interview? Oh, on
Speaker 1: the Town your favorite? I actually barely listened to it anymore.
Speaker 1: I saw it in my feed and because I barely
Speaker 1: have time and I listened, I popped it on. I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I'd like to hear what he said.
Speaker 1: It was like basically, what does this legendary showrunner say
Speaker 1: about current TV? And like you know, and I didn't
Speaker 1: get to finish the interview, but I'm going to keep listening.
Speaker 2: Stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first half was the stuff about you know,
Speaker 1: the sopranos and him writing on the paper. But let's
Speaker 1: get into what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Listen. I was like racking my brain, like what is
Speaker 1: a organization that ties into today's episode? And I like
Speaker 1: truly could not think of anything because it's just like
Speaker 1: a horrific murder and then like there, you know, there
Speaker 1: was this Supreme Court decision making, but there's not a documentary.
Speaker 1: There's nothing I could find. So I decided to sort
Speaker 1: of make it about me and make it about Los
Speaker 1: Angeles because Lisa lives in a city where they elected
Speaker 1: a cool progressive mayor and I am a cutie.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's honestly crazy. Everything he's done. I pray
Speaker 2: for him.
Speaker 1: It's almost like LA is trying to like take the
Speaker 1: la new York. Oh well, if New York's gonna do something,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do something even like way worse, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know. Like, so we are in the throes of
Speaker 1: a jungle primary for our mayor election and our governor's election,
Speaker 1: although I think we have way more of a hope
Speaker 1: of getting elsa Democrat into the race for that. But
Speaker 1: I worry that what is happening in Los Angeles is
Speaker 1: that Spencer Pratt, who is a reality star grifter from
Speaker 1: anyone that has watched The Hills is voting, is running
Speaker 1: allegedly independently but absolutely as a Republican in LA as mayor.
Speaker 1: A lot of you have been writing me saying, can
Speaker 1: you those of you that are Angelino's have been writing
Speaker 1: me saying, can I get your progressive voter guide? And
Speaker 1: basically I'm following most of what DSA Los Angeles has,
Speaker 1: so that is going to be what we're pointing to
Speaker 1: this week is the DSA Los Angeles Primary election voter Guide.
Speaker 1: We will link to it in the show notes. It
Speaker 1: will be in a story on the Instagram page the
Speaker 1: day that this episode comes out, which is thats messed
Speaker 1: up pod. But essentially, I know there are more progressive
Speaker 1: candidates than who I'm supporting. Nathia Raman. I think she's great.
Speaker 1: She's done a lot of work that's good for the city,
Speaker 1: and I think giving this reality grifter like a thirteen
Speaker 1: or like the mayor is symbolic. It's like, no, it's
Speaker 1: a thirteen like billion dollar budget that he has to
Speaker 1: control and he wants to like criminalize homelessness and all
Speaker 1: this stuff.
Speaker 2: So I'm dear with people, Oh, mayor, that's just a
Speaker 2: fake thing, when like our mayor has changed this city
Speaker 2: for the better for many citizens.
Speaker 1: Yes, and they like fund the they fund the police,
Speaker 1: they do all this stuff, and literally I love how
Speaker 1: people are all like he's going to get rid of homelessess,
Speaker 1: Like why do you think that there has been politician
Speaker 1: after politician and homelessness is not solved across the board.
Speaker 1: It is because it is a complex, deep issue that
Speaker 1: there are like that you have to do multi phase
Speaker 1: legislation about and government barely works in this country. So
Speaker 1: it's like nobody is going to come in and magically,
Speaker 1: you know, clean up your streets like that. And also,
Speaker 1: homeless people are people. We cannot just like ship them
Speaker 1: to wherever, to jails or wherever you think. So that
Speaker 1: is my that is my soapbox. I'm using this week's
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg do to get to please not
Speaker 1: vote for Spencer Pratt? And I know you guys aren't
Speaker 1: going to, but I'm saying, even if you like a
Speaker 1: more progressive candidate, the only way to keep Spencer off
Speaker 1: the ballot is to vote for Nythia Rahman. Because of
Speaker 1: the way that this is a jungle pant primary, like
Speaker 1: the others just do not have the percentages, They're not
Speaker 1: going to do it. This episode comes out, there's i
Speaker 1: think eight more days or one more week until the election.
Speaker 1: When this episode comes out, there is not time to
Speaker 1: vote for this guy that hits checks all your boxes.
Speaker 1: Nithia is the one we gotta vote for if we
Speaker 1: want to keep Spencer.
Speaker 2: Off the ballot.
Speaker 1: Also for governor, you got to wait until last minute
Speaker 1: and vote for whoever has the highest amount of votes
Speaker 1: so that we can get either Besarah or Tom Steyer.
Speaker 1: I know he's a billionaire. Listen, Bernie endorsed him. We
Speaker 1: got to do what we gotta do. So that's my
Speaker 1: soapbox for LA politics. Come back next week for an
Speaker 1: actual charity organization or documentary, and yeah.
Speaker 2: We'll have some good news after the Jungle primary, I
Speaker 2: hope so. And next week we'll be doing Motherly Love
Speaker 2: Sounds Bleak, Season eighteen, episode ten, can't wait.
Speaker 1: You guys are the best.
Speaker 2: We're obsess See you soon bye. That's Messed Up as
Speaker 2: an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
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Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dun dun h