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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and move on to China. There have been

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Speaker 1: so many eyes and takes on what we're about to

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Speaker 1: show you. It is one of the most stunning displays

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Speaker 1: that we've seen in a while. So Shishinping at the

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Speaker 1: People's Congress really where he anointed himself the third term

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Speaker 1: leader for life, proclaiming himself in much more of an

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Speaker 1: autocratic direction in modern Chinese history since we have seen

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Speaker 1: since mal se Dong pulled off one of the most

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Speaker 1: crazy stunts that we have seen in the highly choreographed

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Speaker 1: dance of Chinese politics in a long time, and in

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Speaker 1: many ways, whatever the exact circumstances of us are, they

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Speaker 1: don't matter because the imagery itself was so profound. So

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put this up there and i'll

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Speaker 1: talk over it. You can see here this is the

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Speaker 1: People's Congress, Shishingping sitting there with Ujin Tao, the former

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Speaker 1: president who he preceded, who was sitting right next to him.

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Speaker 1: He's a seventy nine year old man. Well in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the congress. Two handlers for Jujin Tao, allegedly

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Speaker 1: his own personal aids, come over and effectively lift him

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Speaker 1: up by his armpits, so you can actually see one

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Speaker 1: of his handlers. Of course, they both have mass on

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Speaker 1: because of zero COVID AIGHTOC in China, and are unwillingly

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Speaker 1: kind of dragging him out of the congress. Noteworthy to me,

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Speaker 1: Look at Chichhingping's face. For those who are just watching,

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Speaker 1: he is staring straight ahead or he's looking to his left. Also,

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Speaker 1: look at all the people in the front crystal. They're

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Speaker 1: either they're either stealing like furtive glances over what's happening,

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Speaker 1: or they are solidly just looking forward, pretending as if

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Speaker 1: nothing is going on. What you can also see is

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Speaker 1: that Hu Jintao, sitting right there, is very slowly starting

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Speaker 1: to make his way, and then he does two things

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Speaker 1: right here. What you can see he puts his hands

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Speaker 1: on She's shoulder and says something to which she go

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Speaker 1: ahead and nods. And then he also says something to

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Speaker 1: two of those officials to She's right. Those two officials

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Speaker 1: are actually who allies who she retired for not being

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Speaker 1: loyal to his regime, even though they were in their

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Speaker 1: like mid sixties. She Shingping himself is only sixty seven

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Speaker 1: years old, so for him to retire them at such

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Speaker 1: an early age wasn't very interesting moment. What this really

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Speaker 1: showed us is that she again, no matter what happened here,

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Speaker 1: and we should note, let's go put this foreign policy

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Speaker 1: piece up, there are basically three explanations. One, and actually

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Speaker 1: this would make a lot of sense, is China's zero

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Speaker 1: covid idiocy, as in who possibly popped positive on a test? Now.

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Speaker 1: The reason why though that wouldn't make a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense is because why would they put him out there

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Speaker 1: on the stage for them that tests positive in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a live television proceeding. I don't think they

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Speaker 1: would ever let that happen. Two, who is seventy nine

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Speaker 1: years old. He could have been having some sort of

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Speaker 1: like mental health dementia episode. There's not a lot known

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Speaker 1: about his health. That's the first time he's been seen

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Speaker 1: in public in a really long time. So maybe he

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Speaker 1: himself was like, I need to get out of here,

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Speaker 1: and then his own age, But then why would he

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Speaker 1: be resisting. I mean, look, you never know when people

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Speaker 1: are this old. The third is exactly what a lot

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Speaker 1: of people took away, which is that this is g

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Speaker 1: humiliating his predecessor in front of one billion people. And

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Speaker 1: you can guarantee that this was shown with no edits nothing.

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Speaker 1: It was shown to the entire Chinese public. And the

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Speaker 1: crazy part is they're not allowed to discuss it. So

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Speaker 1: if he searched a Chinese TikTok ujin Tao is a

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Speaker 1: band search right now, so that clip is really only

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Speaker 1: going viral here in the West. The takeaway I think

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Speaker 1: is obvious. Who for all of his authoritarianism, he was

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Speaker 1: a capitalist to his heart. GDP increased like many times over,

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Speaker 1: he was the pioneer of like the Chinese boom times

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Speaker 1: like him and as many of his allies were oligarchs

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Speaker 1: and they became multi billionaires under his presidency. He forged

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Speaker 1: a lot of the ties with wall Street, great friend

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Speaker 1: of the Bush administration, which is sad presided over a

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Speaker 1: lot of the economic boom and fulfilling the legacy of

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Speaker 1: Deng Xiaoping. She very much sees himself as oppositional to

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Speaker 1: Hu Jintao reinventing the Chinese economy and the Chinese society.

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Speaker 1: He took a couple of swipes at who actually in

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Speaker 1: his speech in the translated version that I looked at,

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Speaker 1: and this is just humiliating. I mean, taking your predecessor

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Speaker 1: and dragging him out as an elderly man, right being

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Speaker 1: marched across that entire thing that zoom out shot of

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Speaker 1: watching this all happen. I mean, it's just stunning. So again,

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Speaker 1: whatever the exact circumstances are, it almost doesn't matter, because

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Speaker 1: the takeaway is she is in charge. This is some

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Speaker 1: stalin stuff. I mean, it really is. The Other thing

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Speaker 1: that's interesting is that it is pure if if it

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Speaker 1: was intended to humiliate and crush in all of those things,

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Speaker 1: it's also like wildly unnecessary, because whose faction has already

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Speaker 1: been crushed, Like any sort of power that he held

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Speaker 1: or power base that he held, they've already been purged.

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Speaker 1: That purge was basically completed at this Congress, with she

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Speaker 1: bringing in some of his hardline allies and getting rid

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Speaker 1: of anyone who was at all even remotely potentially adversarial.

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Speaker 1: The other thing to note about it, just to bolster

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Speaker 1: the idea that it was like intentional theater of humiliation,

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Speaker 1: is this all unfolded right after reporters had been let

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Speaker 1: back in, so and it was just before like the

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Speaker 1: final votes of that session were about to be taken,

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Speaker 1: So you let the media back in, and then this

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Speaker 1: almost immediately is what ultimately unfolds. Again, these things are

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Speaker 1: not typically accidental. Everything about how this unfolded here, this

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Speaker 1: was all choreographed in advance. All of the real politics

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Speaker 1: of this was settled and locked in months ago. So

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Speaker 1: that also bolsters the idea that this was an intentional

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Speaker 1: bit of theater. I think we don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's go and we can also say what their side

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Speaker 1: of it is. They say that he was ill, that

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Speaker 1: his aides took him to rest and recuperate, and that

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Speaker 1: he's feeling much better now. That's what they're saying about

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Speaker 1: this whole incident. That's their official line. And also, as

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Speaker 1: you said, noteworthy that any sort of discussion of this

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Speaker 1: on Chinese social media completely censored, completely banned. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: will say there's a story, a funny story which kind

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Speaker 1: of highlights to me why I don't think that anything

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Speaker 1: spontaneous happens in China. When Who visited Washington while George W.

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Speaker 1: Bush was president here in the South Lawn, there was

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Speaker 1: actually a protester that had somehow made its way into

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Speaker 1: the event that interrupted Who when he was speaking, and

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Speaker 1: Who was shocked and outraged, and the Chinese delegation effectively

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Speaker 1: told Washington they were like, we know that you planted

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Speaker 1: that protester, and they were like, we don't do that here.

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Speaker 1: They're like, that's not They're like the guy just slipped in,

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Speaker 1: Like what are we so supposed to do? And it

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Speaker 1: was a real culture clash moment, because in China you

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Speaker 1: can guarantee if there was a protester, they would have

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Speaker 1: been planted, and nobody is slipping through the cracks. So

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Speaker 1: I thought it was you know, to highlight to me,

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Speaker 1: which is who being outraged. Whenever he was faced with

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Speaker 1: a spontaneous kind of live thing, he saw it as

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Speaker 1: a great humiliation by the Bush administration and by the

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Speaker 1: United States. They took it as a real snub. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just don't think spontaneous things happen in the People's

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Speaker 1: you know, the People's Congress like this. It is choreographed

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Speaker 1: to the last detail. All of us remember the Beijing Olympics,

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Speaker 1: and anytime these people put anything on, they weed out

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Speaker 1: any of the possible events. If he had COVID, there's

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Speaker 1: no way would have let him out there on the

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Speaker 1: stage if he was so unwell. Why also would they

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Speaker 1: see him next to it and then drag his ass

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Speaker 1: out A Gent's Franz Press has a live TV camera

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Speaker 1: trained on him. I think she knew exactly what he

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Speaker 1: was doing. And this was a real message to the

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Speaker 1: Chinese people, and especially to the Chinese elite, because people

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Speaker 1: forget this I'm really doing my home monologue. China has

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Speaker 1: many heating centers of power. You got the business elite,

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Speaker 1: you got the tech oligarchs, you got the CCP, even

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Speaker 1: the CCP, there's a lot of wider rays. He was

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Speaker 1: showing all those people. He said, I'm in charge. I'm

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Speaker 1: in charge. I will drag you out on TV. You're

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Speaker 1: not just going to be like jack Man, thrown in

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Speaker 1: a basement for a couple of months. I will humiliate

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Speaker 1: you in the eyes of the public, even when you

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Speaker 1: were once almost a living god as president of the

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Speaker 1: Chinese you know, of the Chinese Communist Party. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: just a tremendously important event, I think in what the

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Speaker 1: future looks like. She is a young man. He's only

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Speaker 1: sixty seven years old. I believe Mao died when he

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Speaker 1: was eighty three. You know, a lot of the analysis

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Speaker 1: that I've read is he's really just getting started, like

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Speaker 1: this is really the beginning of Shishingping's China. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of scary stuff. And the rest of the official

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Speaker 1: moves that happen at the People's Congress really back up

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Speaker 1: that direction to the choices of who was retired off

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Speaker 1: of the polit Borough Standing Committee, the choices of who

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Speaker 1: was put on. One thing that I saw analysts noting

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Speaker 1: is the likely next premiere is this guy who was

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Speaker 1: the party's top official in Shanghai. His name is Lee Kang.

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Speaker 1: He was the one who presided over like the worst

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Speaker 1: COVID outbreak, the most insane COVID lockdown procedures. So the

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Speaker 1: idea is, we don't really care that he is not popular.

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Speaker 1: What we care about is he's loyal too. He did

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Speaker 1: what I wanted him to do, and that's what matters most,

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Speaker 1: loyalty over everything. And so that was what was really clear,

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Speaker 1: whatever you make of this incident coming out of this

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Speaker 1: People's Congress, so total consolidation of power, total you know,

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Speaker 1: thwarting of any sort of even potential adversaries. And I

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Speaker 1: think this incident is just really perfectly emblematic of that.

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Speaker 1: I think we will look back on it one day

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Speaker 1: in the decades and be like, yep, that was the moment.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about our own domestic politics here, kind of

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Speaker 1: a you know, election seasons upon us in case you

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Speaker 1: haven't noticed. And it has been really kind of a

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Speaker 1: roller coaster. So of course, at first it was like

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Speaker 1: red wave City, no doubt about it, totally clear what

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Speaker 1: was going to happen. Then you had the overturning of

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Speaker 1: Roe versus Way, the Dobbs decision. Things really shifted. Also

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Speaker 1: at the same time, gas prices were going down. Also

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, the Biden administration was

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Speaker 1: accomplishing a few different legislative initiatives and priorities, and you

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Speaker 1: had those couple of open seat special elections right where

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Speaker 1: the Democrats actually overperformed. So then you were starting and

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Speaker 1: you were seeing these polls coming out, you know, Fetterman

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Speaker 1: up twelve points, and even Tim Ryan having a shot

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Speaker 1: in Ohio and maybe Mendela Barn's going to have a

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Speaker 1: shot in Wisconsin. That picture has really shifted now as

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Speaker 1: the economy has continued to turn for the worse, that

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Speaker 1: Dobb's decision sort of fades into memory. And also, you

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Speaker 1: know we always predicted that after Labor Day, when you

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Speaker 1: start looking at likely voters just versus registered voters, the

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Speaker 1: GP almost always picks up ground. Then, so here's when

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post mainstream press really starting to take notice

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Speaker 1: that things are starting to slip away from the Democrats.

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Speaker 1: The headline here it's for Michael Scherer. Democrats fear the

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Speaker 1: midterm map is slipping away. A couple of the data

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Speaker 1: points that they have here. They start with the Liberal

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Speaker 1: Navigator Public Tracking poll flashing a major warning sign for

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Speaker 1: Democrats in mid October reporting a twenty percentage point jump

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Speaker 1: since September in the Sheriff Independent voters concerned about the

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Speaker 1: economy and about gas prices. That is terrain that the

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Speaker 1: Democrats have basically completely ceded to the Republicans, and what

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Speaker 1: I think is one of the most foolish moves you

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Speaker 1: could have possibly made. As you know, voters the whole time,

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Speaker 1: even right after Dobs, We're still telling you the economy

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Speaker 1: is our number one issue, and they're like, yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: not going to talk about that. They say that was

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Speaker 1: not all the only data showing attorney of the tide

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Speaker 1: in the battle for Congress. Regional challenges are showing up

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Speaker 1: in internal Democratic polls. You even have some places like

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island is one place that they are worried about. Now.

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Speaker 1: Now Rhode Island has not sent a Republican member of

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Speaker 1: you know, to Congress in like decades. So those are

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Speaker 1: the sorts of seats that are in danger. Katie Porter,

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Speaker 1: also in a relatively blue district, apparently under pressure as well.

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Speaker 1: Sean Patrick Maloney, who's actually first of all, he jumped

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Speaker 1: into a seat that he thought would be safe, like

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Speaker 1: bigfooting some other more progressive Democratic candidates, and now it

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Speaker 1: looks like he might be under pressure as well, even

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Speaker 1: in that supposedly safe district that he jumped into. And

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Speaker 1: this is the dude who is supposed to be leading

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Speaker 1: Democratic efforts to hold the House, and he's not even

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Speaker 1: able to shore up his own seat. Here, let's go

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Speaker 1: out and put five thirty eight up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: This is the race for the Senate. So previously Democratic

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Speaker 1: chances had gotten as high as seventy one percent. Now

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Speaker 1: they have dropped down to basically a coin flip. This

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Speaker 1: model says, you know, Democrats, in fifty five out of

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Speaker 1: one hundred times they win the Senate. Republicans win in

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Speaker 1: forty five out of one hundred times. So a really

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Speaker 1: dramatic reversal and shift towards Republicans at this point. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think if you just look at history

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Speaker 1: and you look at the top line numbers, you think

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Speaker 1: about how the presidence party, you know, when you're in power,

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Speaker 1: how they normally do in the midterms. You think about

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Speaker 1: how people feel about the economy. You think about the

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Speaker 1: reality of inflation, You think about gas prices going back up.

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Speaker 1: You think about how many people are saying the countries

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Speaker 1: on the wrong track. No one should be surprised by

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Speaker 1: these results. No, it's not surprising. It is really funny

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Speaker 1: to watch. It's like something the vibe shift happened in

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Speaker 1: the media and they're like, oh, yeah, inflation's bad, there's

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Speaker 1: high crime, and all the fundamentals are moving against Democrats.

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Speaker 1: And also there might actually be problems with polling as

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Speaker 1: they're having the Last Night, right, Yeah, so this picture,

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Speaker 1: as like not good as it is for Democrats is

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Speaker 1: probably still overly Rosie. Yeah. Oh, absolutely, yeah. I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's any possible way. I mean, and to me,

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Speaker 1: really crystal, the takeaway is those enthusiasm numbers that we

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Speaker 1: continue to see, like some of the early vote and

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Speaker 1: everything that we look at, go and put the next

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Speaker 1: one up there on the screen, because this is what

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Speaker 1: really matters in terms of his worst performing message. They're

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Speaker 1: really leaning into this, which is that the worst performing message.

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Speaker 1: Per Stan Greenberg, who's really been doing some really excellent

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Speaker 1: work he was on the Bill Clinton campaign, actually recommend

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Speaker 1: there's a documentary that followed the ninety two Bill Clinton campaign,

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Speaker 1: of which Greenberg very prominently is in. I think it's

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Speaker 1: on HBO. People should go and check it out. They

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Speaker 1: were following him when he was like a third tier

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Speaker 1: candidate all the way up until he won the president.

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Speaker 1: So it kind of the first like Gonzo Doc, which

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Speaker 1: was back anyway, it was in the nineties. It was

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Speaker 1: interesting for the fashion alone. But the point is is

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Speaker 1: that what Greenberg intuited at that time with James Carville

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Speaker 1: was the it's the economy stupid message that ultimately won

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Speaker 1: the ninety two election. And he is pointing out that

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Speaker 1: in all of his private polling that the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: needs to quote shut up about any of the work

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Speaker 1: that it's done, because Biden, on all these stump speeches,

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Speaker 1: is like, look what I've done for you with the

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Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act, Look what I've done for you with

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Speaker 1: the Cares Act, you know, two years ago, And voters

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Speaker 1: are really, what have you done for me lately? Because

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Speaker 1: right now my gas prices are high, inflation is very high,

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Speaker 1: and in the absence of any message about what you're

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Speaker 1: going to do to solve the problems, instead of here's

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Speaker 1: everything that I've done for you, the GOP message of well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to attack Biden's policies. Really, it's a vacuum

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Speaker 1: of only one side is saying something that they're going

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Speaker 1: to do. Now maybe the wrong thing. Personally, I think

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Speaker 1: that it is well, I don't even think they're doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: they're really not even saying anything about what they're going

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Speaker 1: to do. But when you're the party in power, of course,

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Speaker 1: if things aren't going well economically, you're going to be

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Speaker 1: like and you're not providing people with like here's specifically

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Speaker 1: what we will do and how we will do it,

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Speaker 1: and some sort of countermessaging, then just by default Republicans

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Speaker 1: are going to gain the upper hand because they're not

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Speaker 1: in power. I mean, that's just the way that this

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Speaker 1: thing works. So Greenberg has been out with you know,

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Speaker 1: he did a more Perfect Union video. There's a joint

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Speaker 1: memo with him and some others with the prospect. He

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Speaker 1: is doing everything he can to sound the alarm here

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Speaker 1: and say you all are screwing this up royally. And

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Speaker 1: he doesn't mince words here either. He says, I am

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Speaker 1: stunned about how much of the democratic commentariat is winging it.

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Speaker 1: Republicans are hitting us on crime and border and inflation.

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Speaker 1: That has huge power, and we have the self satisfied

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Speaker 1: message of how much we've accomplished, rather than being focused

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Speaker 1: on what is happening to people. He was asked if

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Speaker 1: Biden himself perhaps had the message right. He said, nope.

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Speaker 1: I saw their visuals when they were campaigning with the

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Speaker 1: West in which they were talking about helping families with

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Speaker 1: high costs. So they've made a turn with addressing up.

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Speaker 1: But they're also combining it with a message of how

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Speaker 1: great a job they are doing their elites. They live

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Speaker 1: in a world of college educated voters who didn't have

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Speaker 1: child tax credit as a lifeline. Greenberg thinks that child

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Speaker 1: tax credit, re upping the child tax credit and paying

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Speaker 1: for it by taxing the rich his in his testing,

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Speaker 1: that is by far the best message the Democrats could

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Speaker 1: be running on. He says, they didn't have that as

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Speaker 1: a lifeline. They think our own base responds to identity

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Speaker 1: politics rather than economics. If your goal is to win

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Speaker 1: an economic argument, go on, morning Joe. If the goal

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Speaker 1: is to win an election, look at the fucking data

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Speaker 1: to say so. I mean, and this is a guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's not like an anti establishment dude like us.

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Speaker 1: This is a pure democratic operative wants Democrats to win

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Speaker 1: and is losing his mind over how dumb they are

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Speaker 1: in terms of their lack of any sort of message

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Speaker 1: on the economy, and you can see how, you know,

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Speaker 1: just sitting back and look at all we've done for you.

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Speaker 1: Even like naming the Inflation Reduction Act the Inflation Reduction

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Speaker 1: Act was a stupid move because when inflation then continues

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Speaker 1: to go up, Yeah, you can say, okay, it has

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Speaker 1: this provision, that has that provision that's going to help

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Speaker 1: people eventually. But people just look at it and are like,

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Speaker 1: you said, this was your plan. That shit didn't work,

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Speaker 1: so what now? And they have nothing to say about it,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't have anything to do with inflation. Like,

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, really what it was is it was

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Speaker 1: a climate bill, and I think that's fine. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you messmate infrastructure bill, you could have run on

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Speaker 1: it as like the electric vehicle bill. They're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: look like gas is really high right now, we're going

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Speaker 1: to try and make it cheaper for everybody. These are

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Speaker 1: some of the substaties that we're doing. We finally put

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Speaker 1: technology neutral in on nuclear You know, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: defense of the bill, but it doesn't have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with inflation. Unless your name is Joe Manchin and

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Speaker 1: you happen to have spent three hundred million dollars on

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Speaker 1: paying down debt, even though our interest rates are like

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Speaker 1: sky high right now, and it's not going to make

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Speaker 1: a single difference. But that's a discussion for another day.

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Speaker 1: They box himself into this problem and now they can't

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Speaker 1: get out of it, and really it's their own making.

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Speaker 1: That's why I don't have a lot of sympathy. Greenberg

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Speaker 1: is completely correct about how exactly they should be running.

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Speaker 1: And yet Crystal, you got a mailer at your house.

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Speaker 1: Be oah, yeah, and what is it, yel Spamberger, Let

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Speaker 1: me pull this, Let me pull this bad boy up.

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Speaker 1: So this is I live in a swing district at

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Speaker 1: this point, it's been redistricted. It used to be just

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Speaker 1: hard conservative Rob Whitman, the Republican incumbent. He's now been

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Speaker 1: districted into a different area. And so this is like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like Biden plus six something like that.

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Speaker 1: This should be a seat the Democrats if they're going

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Speaker 1: to hold onto the House, they have to hold onto

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Speaker 1: the seat. You have Abigail span Berger, who's the former

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Speaker 1: CIA op, who is the Democrat. She's an incumbent. And

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Speaker 1: then you have yesle Vega, who's actually a cop. So

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of law enforcement going on, and

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Speaker 1: this is the mailer that they were actually door knocking

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Speaker 1: that they've been handing out. So a vote for Abigail

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Speaker 1: Spanburger is a vote for abortion rights, voting rights, and

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Speaker 1: accountability whatever that means nothing? What does that mean? Nothing

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Speaker 1: about economics? You want to know something? Not work? Not

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Speaker 1: even you know. She's actually span Burger has actually been

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Speaker 1: great on the Stop Trading Band. She's one of the

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Speaker 1: only people I've got all sorts of other issues. She's

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Speaker 1: one of the only people that seem to actually care

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Speaker 1: about this thing and been trying to work across parts

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Speaker 1: and lines to get it done. Doesn't even say anything

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Speaker 1: about that, like that's actually good issue too, you could

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Speaker 1: talk about that, you can talk about you know, economics,

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Speaker 1: child tax credit. But she's one of these like corporate

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Speaker 1: centrist types, and so she doesn't actually believe in doing

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Speaker 1: anything people. So she's leaning into abortion and voting rights.

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Speaker 1: Since good luck, you're right, she would be better on

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Speaker 1: sock band. Here in northern Virginia, we have somebody who

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Speaker 1: Kara Lipsman, who's a Republican. Actually, all her sign says

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Speaker 1: is Kara Listman for Congress, and at the top it

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Speaker 1: says stand with Ukraine. And to be clear, she is

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Speaker 1: not going to have anything to do with Ukraine should

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Speaker 1: she actually win her seat. And she's a Republican, she's

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Speaker 1: a blue side, but this is like a very liberal

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Speaker 1: are So yeah, what I'm pointing out is that this

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Speaker 1: is what politics have gotten to now, voting rights, abortion

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Speaker 1: and stand with Ukraine, nothing having to do with gas

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Speaker 1: and inflation. I'm not saying I mean, listen, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying those issues aren't important, that they don't have a

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Speaker 1: place right. But you, as Stan Greenberg says, a look

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Speaker 1: at the fucking data. For months, people have been saying

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Speaker 1: I care about the economy, I care about inflation, I

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Speaker 1: care about jobs. You have nothing to say to those people. Nothing,

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Speaker 1: And in fact, it's worse than that because when it

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Speaker 1: we'll cover this in a little bit, but when people

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Speaker 1: even express okay, maybe you should have a message on

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Speaker 1: the economy because people seem concerned about that, you get

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Speaker 1: scorn and contempt. Scorn and contempt for voicing that people

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Speaker 1: have legitimate concerns in their day to day life, in

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Speaker 1: like making ends meet, and maybe you should be responsive

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Speaker 1: to that. As the supposedly party of the working class.

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Speaker 1: That's like, you know, not something you're supposed to say. Yeah. Actually,

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Speaker 1: there was a reporter, Hannah Trudeau, who we used to

428
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: have over Rising. Yeah, she put out a tweet which said,

429
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: abortion as a closing pitch was always going to be

430
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 1: really risky proposition, but up against the economy, it just

431
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: makes it look fringe. Of course many people will disagree,

432
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: but the cost of gas is extremely important to nearly everyone.

433
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: Abortion is simply not absolute ratio to hell total pot

434
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: by the basically by the you know, quote unquote feminist press,

435
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: who were like, how dare you say that abortion is

436
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: not fringe? Like tell that to so and so that

437
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: we're not saying that, we're not saying it's fringe that

438
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: people would affect. What her point was is that gas

439
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: and inflation affects everyone, and so when you are going

440
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: to run on something, you should try and run on

441
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: something that is going to appeal to the broadest mass

442
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: and also act to vote said voters who are affected

443
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 1: by abortion. I just thought it was remarkable that somebody

444
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: is offering a very frankly basic political insight, right. It

445
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: took courage for her to even say that and she

446
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: was piled. I mean, I really am not exaggerating, like

447
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: the national political press made her out as like a

448
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 1: villain for saying this. And look, you know, they'll all

449
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: find out the truth come November eighth. They can wish

450
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 1: it with her. Otherwise, you know, they could wish that

451
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: everybody in the country is going to row row wrote

452
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: their vote. But yeah, when gas prices are going up

453
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: and people are struggling with inflation and effectively getting a

454
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: pay cut, you know, every week, every month, and you're

455
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: the party in power, it's I just can't even begin

456
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: to wrap my head around the political failures that we

457
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: are witnessing. So Rishie Sunak poised to be Britain's next

458
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: prime minister, big moment. I guess for Indians, our first

459
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: leader in the West already, you know, you got the

460
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: New York Times in front of you, the first person

461
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: of color who will lead at then to think it's

462
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: probably more important what exactly the man is going to

463
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: do when he's in office. And look, two couple of

464
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: things is kind of interesting. One number one, Sunak actually

465
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: ran against trust saying that her plan wasn't going to work.

466
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: He said it was a fairy tale I was going

467
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: to say, I believe he's called it quote fairy tale

468
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: in the debate between the two that's on his side

469
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: on the other, this is a precarious situation. Twenty twenty

470
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: four is the next general election that's going to get

471
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 1: called the amount of chaos that's happening right now. Clearly

472
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: the Conservative Party is totally split. They really don't seem

473
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: to agree on what the path forward is on inflation

474
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: and on energy. They tried the free marketism, but they're

475
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: also not going to go all the way in terms

476
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: of price control and you know, seizing the energy grad

477
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: They have to deal with Ukraine. They also have the

478
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: cold that's stepping in right now. The party is split

479
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 1: almost fifty to fifty. Boris Johnson, when he bat out

480
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 1: of the road race yesterday, said that he had received

481
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: over one hundred commitments in the Conservative Party behind his candidacy.

482
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: Nobody knows if it's sure or not. That's just what borsout. Yeah, listen,

483
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. The point is is that he was

484
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: in contention and serious way to possibly be the least well.

485
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: So he doesn't have a full mandate. And let's let's

486
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: back up a little bit for people I've been following

487
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: this super closely because obviously Boris Johnson was Prime Minister,

488
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: he was involved in any number of scandals that ultimately

489
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: brought down, you know, his time and office forced him

490
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: out because he was doing you know, they were doing

491
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 1: parties like every week during COVID while everybody else was

492
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: locked down. And then to make matters worse, he lied

493
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: about it so many times it's like over and over again.

494
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: He actually sort of tried to use his quote unquote leadership.

495
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: I didn't really like the direction he was taking things in,

496
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: but you know, going to Kiev and his posturing on

497
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: the Ukraine War, a lot of that was an attempt

498
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: to sort of rescue his own domestic political fallout. And

499
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: so what triggered his resignation, ultimately being pushed down of

500
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: office was Rischie Sunak, who was a member of his cabinet.

501
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: He ultimately resigns, and that sort of is what kicks

502
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: off the process that Lee ends up with Boris Johnson

503
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: out of office. Then you have this race for you know,

504
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: Tory leadership and to be the next Prime minister. It

505
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: ends up being basically Sunac versus Trust. Sunac is very

506
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: critical of Trust's just total like you know, all in

507
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: ideological Thatcher Reagan zombie market fundamentalism stuff. He's like, this

508
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: is way too far. And there are factions within the

509
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: Conservative Party because you know, Boris Johnson was that sort

510
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: of like, you know, more economically populous, you did some

511
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: things that you wouldn't normally associate with toy leadership. So

512
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: when Trust announced her market fundamentalists budget with all these

513
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: tax cuts for the rich and I'm not going to

514
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: raise taxes on corporations and I'm going to lift the

515
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: banker bonuses and all of that, there were right wing

516
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: newspapers that were celebrating. They were like, this is finally

517
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: we have a true blue Tory budget. So when the

518
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: bottom fell out of that, ultimately Sunak appears to have

519
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: been vindicated, and in stunning fashion because he, you know,

520
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: had called this a fairy tale and had been critical

521
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 1: from the start. So there's still i think, you know,

522
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: the question mark around him was whether the party would

523
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: get behind him, given the fact that he was seen

524
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: as kind of a trader to Boris, and there's still

525
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: a very large Boris aligned faction. But ultimately, you know,

526
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: they clearly were able to overcome that, and he'll be

527
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: the next Prime minister. Now, the other thing to say

528
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: here is that like the standing of the Conservative Party

529
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: in Britain has almost never been lower. Yeah, like there

530
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: are there's mass clamoring for a general election. It is

531
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: incredibly anti democratic to just keep swapping in and out

532
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: these leaders with no general vote. Right Labor in the

533
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: last polls had like a you know, thirty five point

534
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: lead over the Tories led by Keir Starmer. They've sort

535
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: of like crushed the Corbonites and have this more like

536
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 1: new liberal type of dude who's in charge now. So

537
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: even though they now have a new prime minister, he's

538
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: facing massive economic problems, massive worse than us. I mean, yeah,

539
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: inflation is higher, they don't have the world's reserve currency.

540
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: They have housing crisis. Housing affordability I think is even worse.

541
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: It is huge housing issues, huge energy issues. We've covered

542
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: the BBC is writing secret scripts in case there's a

543
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: massive like nationwide blackout, like that's the sort of thing

544
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: that he's stepping into, which trust made that much worse

545
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: with the fallout from her you know, ultimately aborted economic plan.

546
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: And then there's massive political issues as well because the

547
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: Tories are in such poor political standing. So it's going

548
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: to be you know, it's it's quite something that he is,

549
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: that he's got on his plate, right, Yeah, that's why

550
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: I was saying, you know, before all the Indians get

551
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: so happy, this guy could last just as long as

552
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: Liz trusts. I mean, the reality is is the divided

553
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: Conservative Party, the country is in turmoil. He's got a

554
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: bunch of crises. It's very possible that, you know, you

555
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: get a vote of no confidence that gets called on him.

556
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: What if there's another snap financial crisis nobody knows and

557
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: then you that's it, boom, your government is over. You're resigned.

558
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: He's only forty two years old. He's actually quite young

559
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: in order to hold the office. So anyway, like this

560
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: is a very precarre head of Lettuce. I think he

561
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: probably will just because Trust was such a disaster. But

562
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: the previous one, I believe it lasted three months. That

563
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: was the previous shortest PM in British history. I saw

564
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of great takes that trivia writers in the

565
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: UK had to update all of their stuff because it

566
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: hadn't had somebody who'd serve for such a like it

567
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: was a staple everybody in the country knew at least

568
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: in trivia, like who the shortest serving PM was, and

569
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: they had to update it now it'll be Liz Trust.

570
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: It's a really it's a complex situation and he's really

571
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: walking into the buzzsaw. I kind of agree, which is

572
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: that at this point, I think you need to have

573
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: a general election. I mean, they're not going to do

574
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: it because they know because it will lose. Yeah, but

575
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: trying to govern the country like this is not good

576
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: for anybody, It really isn't. And just this level of

577
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: turmoil at the top of the government. It's bad for

578
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: the economy, it's bad for foreign relations, it's bad for

579
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: the populace. And when if they do keep it up,

580
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: and if especially he has a divided party and kind

581
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: of hangs on by a thread up until twenty four,

582
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: they are going to get creamed in the next general

583
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: election and then he's out anyway, So it may honestly

584
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: be to his own benefit. Who knows how it's all

585
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: going to go. Yeah, And obviously I mean it's a

586
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: huge economy, huge trading partner of ours, massive ally of ours.

587
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: And then, as I tried to lay on in my monologue,

588
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: also a lot of warning signs coming from the UK,

589
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: and you know they've foreshadowed political and economic events that

590
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: lay in our future as well. This is why it's

591
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: important to pay close attention to what is happening there

592
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: across the pond. I agree, let's go ahead and move

593
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: on to Ukraine. Some fascinating stuff happening here in Washington.

594
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: There's been some major debates. Counterpoints did a great job

595
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: covering it. But we have an update on the democratic front.

596
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: For a while, Crystal and I've been asking, we're like, hey,

597
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: where is the anti war movement? Like does it even exist?

598
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: So yesterday heartened to see a letter. Let's put this

599
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. This makes it actually bipartisan

600
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: in terms of criticism of the war. Thirty House Democrats,

601
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: mostly of the House Progressive Caucus, led by Representative Primilla Jaiapaul,

602
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: called on Biden to have unprecedented to pair their unprecedented

603
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: economic and military support with quote proactive diplomatic push, redoubling

604
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: efforts to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire. That's it.

605
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: If you go ahead and you read their letterdata is

606
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: one of the most innocuous things possible. They do not

607
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: call into question ongoing arm sales to Ukraine. They do

608
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: not say that the US should force the Ukrainians' hands.

609
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: They do not say many of the provocative things. They

610
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: go out of their way clearly to not say that

611
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: with reassuring language. But of course it's up to the Ukrainians.

612
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: And of course we see Russia's not good actors here.

613
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: Of course we know this would be very difficult, but

614
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: maybe kind of sort of we should consider possibly thinking

615
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: about diplomatic actions. That's basically the letter. That is all this.

616
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: I will read you the conclusion. And conclusion, we urge

617
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: you to make vigorous diplomatic efforts in support of a

618
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: negotiated settlement and ceasefire. Engage in direct talks with Russia,

619
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: Explore prospects for a new European security arrangement acceptable to

620
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: all parties that will allow for sovereign, independent Ukraine, and

621
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: in coordination with our Ukrainian partners, seek a rapid end

622
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: to the conflict, and reiterate this goal as America's chief priority.

623
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: That's it. That's all they said. Frankly, innocuous, not particularly groundbreaking.

624
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: Many much much more provocative things have been said on

625
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: this show, of which you know the pro Ukraine. People

626
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: have been upset about That's fine, you could be upset

627
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: about this, But I don't see how this is anything

628
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: not within the bounds of public debate. And yet the

629
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: freak out that this letter caused in Washington is unparalleled,

630
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: and especially because they're on the democratic side and they're

631
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: much more susceptible. I think, tell me if you disagree

632
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: to criticism from elite media circles and all of that,

633
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: they're trained. Within a matter of hours, that letter came

634
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: out in the afternoon, four to five hours later, put

635
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen. Primeila Ja Paul go

636
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: ahead and issues a statement. She says, in a letter

637
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: to President Diden, my colleagues and I advocated for the

638
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: administration to continue ongoing support. Let me be clear, we

639
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: are united as Democrats and our unequivocal commitment to supporting

640
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: Ukraine in their fight for democracy and freedom in the

641
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: face of the diplomacy is an important tool that can

642
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: save lives. But it is just one tool, as we

643
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: also made explicitly clear. All of that. I mean, it's

644
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: a total capitulation where they came out and just said,

645
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: actually no, we didn't mean it, and actually we're one

646
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: hundred percent in line with President Biden. And please don't

647
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: criticize us anymore. We're not anti Ukraine. We really just

648
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: want democracy. It's just hilarious and pathetic to watch this

649
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: real capitulation in real time. I mean just instant, right.

650
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: I know, I was tracking because even as like moderate

651
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: and carefully worded and milk toast as this thing was,

652
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: I was like, this is thirty Democrats. They're not all

653
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: squad members, you know, AFC and Corey Bush and those

654
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: folks Ill Han, they weren't on it. No, that's right.

655
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: But it was also these sort of like more Maine,

656
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: Jamie Raskin and other sort of like mainline from Texas. Right,

657
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, all right, we're at least opening

658
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: up a conversation. And I was shocked because I knew

659
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: they were gonna get massive backlash because you know, we

660
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: see the way that this all unfolds, there is zero

661
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: room to question the direction in the strategy whatsoever. Zero, Okay.

662
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: So I was truly surprised, and I was truly impressed.

663
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: I was truly impressed. Rocana is the only person that

664
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: I've heard saying really any of that before this letter

665
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: comes out, and then I start to watch online. In fact,

666
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: when we were planning our show, I was looking at

667
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: the replies and the quote tweets from all of the

668
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: Blob aligned mainstream resistance. All these people just went all

669
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: in piling on these people. Even some of their fellow

670
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: members of the quote unquote Progressive Caucus like Ruben Diego,

671
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: going all in trashing them. They're being accused of being

672
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: Russian stooges. Marcos Malitis accused them of making quote common

673
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: cause with Lauren Bobert, Marjorie Taylor, Green, jd Vance, and

674
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: the rest of the MAGA crowd. All of this just

675
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: absolute vicious attacks on these people, questioning their motives, questioning

676
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: their intelligence, questioning the timing of the letter, everything, and

677
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: almost instantly they completely cave. It's so depressing, It is

678
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: so incredibly dispiriting to see that you can't even open

679
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: the door a crack to saying maybe we should think

680
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: about diplomacy to end this war. And Ryan Graham, I

681
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: think we have this. Let's put this up on the screen.

682
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: Of course, our Counterpoints co host here, he had a

683
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: great article breaking all of this down. He's his thirty

684
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: House Democrats tried to gently open the door to diplomacy

685
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. It was slammed in their face by the

686
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: end of the day. And he goes into some of

687
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: the pushback that we saw online and on cable news

688
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: and in other places. He goes in to the timeline

689
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: of how instantly Primilagiapol in particular just completely caved and

690
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: it's utterly pathetic. He quotes here Eric Sperling, whose executive

691
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: director of Just Foreign Policy, which had endorsed this letter,

692
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: and he actually made, I thought an interesting point. He

693
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: casts the extreme opposition to it as a sign of

694
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: the fragility of the anti diplomacy consensus. He says, the

695
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: shrill response to this utterly moderate letter exposes that war

696
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: proponents are scared of an open debate about the range

697
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: of potential approaches to addressing this conflict. Has happened with

698
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: the war in Iraq and many other surround human history.

699
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 1: War proponents attempt to silence debate in large part because

700
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: they are not confident in their arguments and they are

701
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: afraid that pro diplomacy views will appeal to average Americans.

702
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we have seen when the question

703
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: has been asked. There is a large majority of people

704
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: who are interested in diplomacy, because guess what, if we

705
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: want this word to end, that's the way that we're

706
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you imagine which most analysts don't

707
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: say that Ukraine, even if we you know, continue to

708
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: arm them and not most of them don't think that

709
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: they can outright win and push Russia all the way

710
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 1: out of their territory. But let's let's say, okay, maybe

711
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: they could. Do you really think that Vladimir Putin is

712
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: just going to sit back and accept defeat without somehow escalating,

713
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: without some sort of desperate moves, without creating some sort

714
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: of chaos and catastrophe, because I sure don't so the

715
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: idea that you can't even say this without being viciously

716
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: smeared and attacked online and accused both of being you know,

717
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: Russian propagandists, but also the ultimate sin of having anything

718
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: in common with you know, people who are supposed to

719
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: be out of bounds like Marjorie Taylor Green. Oh I'm

720
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: no fan of, but I think it's a ridiculous person.

721
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: But you can use that hard partisan divide to just

722
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: shut people up. It's so disgraceful. I can't even wrap

723
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: my head around it. I mean, honestly, I am fine

724
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: finding some comfort in this crystal because I am just

725
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: seeing that there is a massive political hole waiting to

726
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: be filled that will one day make its voice heard

727
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: by the democratic process. Americans are not stupid. The closer

728
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: that we get to nuclear war, they're going to say, hell, no,

729
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: we're not interested in this. The establishment and the Ukrainians

730
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: have made a tremendous, tremendous error in allying themselves with

731
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: the mainstream Democratic Party, which is about to get its

732
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: ass kicked in Congress. And guess what, House Republicans, there's

733
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: already a civil war that is erupting what's up there

734
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: on the screen, which is that Kevin McCarthy came out

735
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: and said to Punch Bowl News, actually we are very

736
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: likely not to approve any more aid to Ukraine. Now,

737
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: they used fiscal language in order to say that, and

738
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: whatever I mean, I guess better than nothing. But Mitch

739
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: McConnell said, no, that's not going to stand all of that. Now, Listen,

740
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: do I think Kevin McCarthy will actually have the stones

741
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: to stick by his position. No, I think he'll probably

742
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: cave to the blob as well. But what it does

743
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: show me is that if the pressure is on enough

744
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: to McCarthy for him to publicly out and to question

745
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: the Washington consensus, imagine what a Donald Trump like figure

746
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: who we showed you is already advocating for negotiation and diplomacy.

747
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: Let's say the war gets even hotter ahead of the

748
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four election. Remember, everybody thought that Americans were

749
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: going to freak out when Trump was calling out NATO allies.

750
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: Didn't happen. Everybody thought that the Americans were going to say,

751
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: my god, he's questioning the free trade consensus. Nope. Actually

752
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: turns out that they support it in wide numbers. So listen,

753
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: they have seeded the ground for the debate to the

754
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: fringe and to Donald Trump, he is not a fool

755
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: Trump if his greatest skill is intoiting which areas of

756
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: public consensus and rhetoric are completely out of the bounds,

757
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: seizing onto it and hammering it home and hammering it

758
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: and pissing off the establishment who screech and make the

759
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,959
Speaker 1: They make the issue even louder for Americans who love

760
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: to see them melt down. So the Ukraine Consensus of

761
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: February of twenty twenty two is long gone, go ahead

762
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: and take a look at every pole that exists. Voters

763
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: are split right down the middle on continued aid for

764
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: Ukraine every concern. Veterans of an America poll that we've

765
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: ever showed you has shown a tremendous preference for diplomacy.

766
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: Right now, the entire Ukraine debate really is shrouded in secrecy.

767
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: They don't want people to know. And look, you know,

768
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: we're not stupid. As many people could watch this show,

769
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: as many people who watch the news, most Americans have

770
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: no idea what's going on in Ukraine. They have no

771
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: idea how close we are to a Cuban missile crisis.

772
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: I said this before. I believe one of the most

773
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: shameful things that Joe Biden has done is to tell

774
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of rich Democratic owners that we are on

775
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: the verge of nuclear armageddon. And if you believe that,

776
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: you owe a direct address to the American people to

777
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: tell it. But he can't tell you that because if

778
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: you do, you're gonna be like, well, hold on a second, bed,

779
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: what are we doing about that? Yeah, gonna are we

780
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: gonna stop that? He would prefer everybody go about their

781
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: lives and go to the gym, And you know, argue

782
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: about inflation or whatever, because the longer that happens, Washington

783
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: is allowed to continue doing what it wants. It operates

784
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: in secrecy. And yet they never learned their lesson. They

785
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: didn't learn it from Iraq, they didn't from Libya, they

786
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: didn't learn it from Afghanistan. Americans will make their voice

787
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: heard eventually in some way, and you are not going

788
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: to like it when that day comes, that's right. And

789
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: the instinct to just completely shut down any discussion like

790
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: there is literally you are not allowed to dissent even

791
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: one inch, which is effectively what this letter was. Yes,

792
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: this letter was like one inch of descent, and they

793
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: had everything thrown at them to shut them down, and

794
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, they instantly cave. And this is a repeated

795
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: problem obviously with the you know, so called Progressive Caucus,

796
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: where they cannot take any heat from Democratic leadership, from

797
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: the mainstream press, from freaking you know, idiot pontificators on Twitter.

798
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: They can't take it. They just instantly fold, and so

799
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: it is really depressing. Rokanna did have a decent statement,

800
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: even after everybody else around him capitulated. He said to Ryan,

801
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: it should not be controversial to say we need to

802
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: explore every diplomatic avenue to seek a just peace and

803
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: to end the war, including the engagement of our allies

804
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: to help with that. He's right, it shouldn't be controversial.

805
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: But apparently this is considered completely out of bounds to

806
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: even have the conversation about a diplomatic end to this

807
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: war when the President of the United States is openly

808
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: admitting that we could face potential nuclear armageddon, and yet

809
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: we're still like, yeah, this direction we're going and is fine,

810
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: and you can't even question it. You can't even say

811
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: anything about it. You can't even say suggest at all

812
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: a different direction. It's so depressing to me. I wish

813
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: they just wouldn't have said anything. And let's show them

814
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: why why did this happen? Put this up there on

815
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: the screen from the pagandis over at the Washington Post.

816
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: Here's the headline, why Putin hopes for a GOP victory,

817
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: As explained by a top Russia expert. This was the

818
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: prevailing consensus all up and down the line in terms

819
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: of the elite press, because if you suggest anything even

820
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: close to diplomacy, you are a Putent asset. I have

821
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: no love for Vladimir poot Okay, I don't want to

822
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: die in a nuclear armageddon. I want America to survive

823
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: and to be better off. I don't think that has

824
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: anything to do with Vladimir Putin. I don't get to

825
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: exist sadly in a world where he is dead and

826
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. We have to accept terms on which they are.

827
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 1: We can hope for many things. I hope for a

828
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: world with no war. But I'm not an idiot, you know.

829
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: It's like one of these things where we have to

830
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: accept the reality of the conditions as they exist. In

831
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: terms of their nuclear power status, in terms of what

832
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: their red lines are. These are not things that we

833
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: necessarily should be happy about. We have our red lines.

834
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: They've been very clearly articulated. It's called NATO. Anything outside

835
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: of that really is up for debate. This is the

836
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: part of the thing that drives me insane. Whenever they say, well,

837
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: if we capitulate in Ukraine, what will stop us from

838
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: capitulating in NATO. NATO is a Senate ratified treaty. The

839
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: President has no authority to even withdraw form it, even

840
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: if he wanted to. If they attack NATO, we will

841
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: be in a nuclear war. If they attack anywhere outside

842
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: of NATO. We have a choice. If we have a choice,

843
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: we should probably do anything humanly possible in order to

844
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: make sure that we don't make that does not occur.

845
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: We had a play of this in the Cuban missile crisis.

846
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: We had a play of this in Korea. I wish

847
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: for the days of statesmen who had to confront the

848
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: reality of war. We had three successive presidents faced a

849
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: nuclear crisis, Harry S. Truman, Dwight the Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy.

850
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: All of them were forged in the crisis of World

851
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: War two. Truman backed down and fired MacArthur because he

852
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: feared that war over Little Korea would have a conflagration.

853
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: Basically pursued a strategy which was probably may not have

854
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: been best on the battlefield. This is controversial according to MacArthur,

855
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: but had an overarching diplomatic aim of I do not

856
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: want to confront the Soviet Union. Same thing with Dwight D. Eisenhower.

857
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: They wanted him to use nukes or threaten them in

858
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: the Suez Crisis. At dan ben Field, he said, you're

859
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: out of your mind. I've been through this. I'm not

860
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: going to happen. John F. Kennedy the exact same. I

861
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: fear that our politicians have just been so far removed

862
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: from the reality of what a global crisis actually looks like.

863
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: That that's the cavalier nature of white elite media too,

864
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 1: whose sons, of course, have never served in the military

865
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: or have any generational connection to this. They have no idea.

866
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: I just watch All Quiet on the Western Front. I

867
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: urge all of you to watch it whenever it comes

868
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: out on Netflix. I saw it and it's limited theater release.

869
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 1: That's what war looks like. People dying up until the

870
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: last minute of the armistice for some scrap of France

871
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: which was turned into mud. That's the reality of what

872
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: the situation is, right, And I mean it just there's

873
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: so much fuzzy thinking here. People love their simplistic narratives,

874
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: and I get it. The Ukrainians are the good guys,

875
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: and Putin and the Krumlin and his allies are the

876
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: bad guys. Like, no disagreement here, But give me some

877
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 1: sort of logical endgame that makes any kind of sense

878
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: that doesn't an incomplete catastrophe for the Ukrainians, for Europe

879
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: and potentially for the world. Give me some logical step

880
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: by step, how do you see this thing ending? They

881
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: never tell you that, They never get to them, and

882
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: I I think, even though obviously we're very clear and

883
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: very passionate about our own perspective on how this should

884
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: all play out, I think we have tried to hold

885
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: space for what the opposing view is, what the opposing

886
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: arguments are, and I fully admit it is a complex situation,

887
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: and the idea of giving into any of Putin's demands

888
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: or desires here it is terrible. It feels terrible, it

889
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel just. I get that instinct,

890
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: and I get that perspective one hundred percent. All I'm

891
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: asking is that you also allow space for people to

892
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: have a different view of the best way to approach

893
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: this conflict, and not accuse them of being in bed

894
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: with this bad actor or this bad actor, or being

895
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: Kremlin stooges, or being friends with Marjorie Taylor Green or whatever.

896
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: Allow people to have a dissenting view, and then guess what, guys,

897
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 1: those who are such big defenders of democracy allegedly, why

898
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: don't you let the voters hear out that fulsome debate

899
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: and see what American people think about this? Because I

900
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: do think Spurling is one hundred percent correct here. The

901
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: vehemence of the reaction against such a totally tepid, reasonable,

902
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: couched and million different phrases in language letter. The reaction

903
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: to that is incredibly telling of how fragile their position

904
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: really is. A very excited about our next guest, and

905
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: one I have been following for a very long time.

906
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: Ronafruhar is author of Don't Be Evil and Makers and Takers,

907
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: both great books. She's out with a new book it's

908
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: called Homecoming, The Path to Prosperity in a Post global World,

909
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 1: and she is also global business calumnists and associate editor

910
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: for The Financial Times. Great to see Aroana, How are

911
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 1: you good to see you? So good to see you, guys.

912
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on. Yeah, absolutely so. I

913
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: don't want to butcher your thesis, but basically your idea

914
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: in Homecoming is that the age of unfettered globalization is ending,

915
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: that we're headed in a different direction, and you try

916
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: to sketch down a little bit of you know, the

917
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: science that that's already happening, and also what this future

918
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: might look like. So just first of all, did I

919
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: capture that accurately? And second of all lay lay on

920
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of what you see happening here. You know, Crystal,

921
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: you've got necnautry. I get an a ya. Basically, we've

922
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: been living for the last half century in a world

923
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: of hyper globalization, no holes barred financialization. You know, big

924
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: companies can put jobs, put money wherever they want. That

925
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: is the neoliberal paradigm. And that's you know, that's unmouthful,

926
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: but neoliberalism is really the political philosophy that's been adopted

927
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: by both parties in fact in the last half century,

928
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: both by the you know Reagan, Thatcher sort of Republicans,

929
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: but also the Clintonian Democrats. And the idea is that

930
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: trickle down theory works. Markets are efficient and just let

931
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: people go where they will, let money and goods go

932
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: where they will, and it's all going to land where

933
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: it's most productive and best for it to do so.

934
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: But the problem is, well, that created a lot of

935
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: wealth at a global level. It also created tremendous in

936
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: country inequality, and we've been living with the consequences of that.

937
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: You know, the hollowed out parts of the Rust Belt

938
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: and the South that have become red states or swing states,

939
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: the deaths of despair, you know, the sense that American

940
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 1: competitiveness has been eroded because we've outsourced our entire supply chain.

941
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: All these things are now coming to the fore, particularly

942
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: in the wake of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. Right,

943
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: and so one of the things that a lot of

944
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: people woke up to with the supply chain crisis and

945
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: more is like, Wow, I can't get stuff that I ordered.

946
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: But what is the solution to that? You know, we

947
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: see a lot of people saying, oh, well, we need

948
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: to build here at home. As we've all found out

949
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: the hard way, it takes five to ten years to build.

950
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: If you want a new semiconductors, you've got to wait

951
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: fifteen years, you know, at best in some cases, if

952
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: you can even do it at all. And something I

953
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: think that you get in the book is about what

954
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: the solutions that look like on a practical level. So

955
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: lay it out for her, for us. Yeah, so there's

956
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: not one silver bullet, to be fair, Yeah, building a

957
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: news conductor fab time. But we actually have and this

958
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 1: is really the good news and it is a good

959
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: news book. We have a lot more agility and a

960
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: lot more manufacturing competitiveness in this country. Than we're aware of.

961
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: And I'll give you one story, because my book has

962
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: these big, lofty theses, but it sort of looks at

963
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: them through the lens of three different industries, agriculture, textiles,

964
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: and technology. And I spent a lot of time in

965
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 1: the Carolinas in the textile supply chain during the before

966
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: and during the pandemic. And here are these companies. Okay,

967
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: nobody's buying clothes, so they're looking around and thinking, what

968
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: can we do. Well, they turned on a dime in

969
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: forty eight hours and started making masks, and they were

970
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 1: moving millions of them around the country. Now, what's very

971
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: interesting is before the pandemic hit, Americans were basically buying

972
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: three cent masks from China, which, by the way, is

973
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: dumping because the raw materials would make it a five

974
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: or six cent product. But that's another topic. Beijing decides, understandably,

975
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: it wants those masks for its people. It hoards the masks,

976
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: we have to start producing them. In the US. Say,

977
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: the cost of a USA mask is thirty cents, But

978
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: by the end of a pandemic, these folks, these very nimble,

979
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: often family owned, private businesses, had driven those costs down

980
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: to ten cents, and then when you factor in higher

981
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: labor standards, good environmental standards in this country, not having

982
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: to haul things, you know, thousands of miles and spend

983
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: that energy cost and the emissions cost to bring things

984
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: through the South China supply chains, you know, it actually

985
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense to do more at home.

986
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: All kinds of reasons for this technology that are you know,

987
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: allowing things to be three D printed in real time

988
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: are taking off. I think we're going to be doing

989
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 1: a lot more here at home. What did you make

990
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: of the sort of instant calamity triggered by the short

991
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: lived Prime Minister of the UK, Liz Trust, who went

992
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: all in on the sort of most ideological, most strident

993
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: version of the Reagan Thatcherism. Free market economics comes in

994
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: with this post Many budget to slash taxes on the

995
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: rich and forego a raised in corporate taxes and even

996
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna lift the cap on banker bonuses, like

997
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: just whole hog on this thing, and the very markets

998
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: that she revered completely turned on her and there was

999
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: an almost complete collapse. I mean, what did you make

1000
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: of that in terms of, you know, what it says

1001
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: about where we are in the era of neoliberalism, and

1002
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: what the both public and market reaction is to this

1003
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: type of ideological project at this point. You know, it's

1004
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: a great question, and I couldn't frankly, have asked for

1005
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: a better peg, a newspeg for my book, because if

1006
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: you think about okay, trickle down started with Reagan, Thatcher,

1007
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: that pendulum swung so far that we now have this

1008
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: incredibly bifurcated economy, both in the US and the UK.

1009
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: You get a prime minister that comes in and says, yeah,

1010
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: you know, we still believe that the way to growth

1011
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: is to cut taxes on the ridge. That's worked. No,

1012
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: it hasn't worked. It hasn't worked definitely for twenty years.

1013
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: If you look across the board at all all workers

1014
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: and all salaries. It hasn't worked for forty years if

1015
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: you look at working people. So you know, no big

1016
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: surprise that the market said, hold on, we don't think so.

1017
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: And particularly if you're going to cut taxes even as

1018
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 1: you're increasing fuel subsidies and spending, we don't like that.

1019
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: So I think the demise of trust anomics, if you

1020
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: will might call it, that is potentially the apex and

1021
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 1: the turning point, you know, where we start going down

1022
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: this hill of neoliberalism, hopefully to something better. And what

1023
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: are the downsides you know, to this change? Obviously deglobalization.

1024
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: We've gone through a period of this with depression and

1025
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: all that in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. Can

1026
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: we avoid some of the pitfalls both politically and economically

1027
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: from that time or do you think it's maybe just

1028
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: as raucous in the transition? Great questions. So, look, we

1029
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: are in a bumpy period. I mean, the world is

1030
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: not flat, right, That's one of my big, my big thess.

1031
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 1: The world is bumpy. It's never been flat, you know,

1032
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: there was I've been going to China, for example, for

1033
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: twenty five years. I've never landed in China and looked

1034
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: around and thought, Wow, this country, big, rich, old country,

1035
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: with its own tradition's own system is going to seamlessly

1036
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: bit into the Washington consensus. Yeah, that's going to happen,

1037
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: you know. So's but we now see those things and

1038
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: so we're no longer willfully blind to them. Some people

1039
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: would look at, say the export bands that the Biden

1040
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: administration has put on high end chips to dually use

1041
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: chips to China as being an aggressive action. In fact,

1042
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: this administration is just reacting to China's own stated goal

1043
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: of being totally independent of Western technology in the next

1044
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: few years. And you know, the Party is really hardening.

1045
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: You saw that at the last Party conference and over

1046
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,959
Speaker 1: the last few days. So this is reality. But it

1047
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a zero sum game. I think

1048
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: you know, I did an event with Janet Yell and

1049
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: Treasure Sectuary at the Atlantic Council several months ago where

1050
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 1: she first used that word friend shoring, which is about

1051
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: let's create a trade system that's about values. Let's make

1052
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: sure we're not buying cotton t shirts that are made

1053
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: by tiny fingers in a forced labor camp in Shinjang.

1054
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: Let's make sure we're trading with companies that treat workers

1055
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: and the environment properly. And this is part of the

1056
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act. Let's make sure that we give some

1057
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 1: carrots as well as sticks. So domestic producers at home

1058
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: that are doing the right things, let's reward them. Let's

1059
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: incentivize them as well as making it harder or more

1060
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: expensive for folks who are doing the wrong thing to

1061
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: bring stuff into the country. So Rona. I very much

1062
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 1: see all the signs that you're pointing to, and I think,

1063
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 1: you know, the trustnomics collapse. It really demonstrates that whatever

1064
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: there was to get out of that worldview has long

1065
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: been gotten. If there ever was anything to get out

1066
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: of that worldview, those gains have already been attained and

1067
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: it leads to know nothing but catastrophe at this point.

1068
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: But in the same respect, you know, I get pushed

1069
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 1: back about the idea that sort of the neoliberal era

1070
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: is ending because they're like Joe Biden is a consummatet

1071
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: neoliberal and he's in charge, and yeah, trust is gone,

1072
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: but now you've got like a golden sax dude who's

1073
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of the UK. A lot of the power

1074
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: is still with this ideology in terms of the institutions

1075
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: that are, you know, supporting our government. So what do

1076
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: you say to that pushback? Oh, well, Crystal, for sure,

1077
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: the neoliberals are not going to die easily, you know,

1078
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: And I'm doing personal hand to hand street fighting with

1079
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: some of them right now. I can tell you I

1080
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: would actually it's funny with Biden. I would I think

1081
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,959
Speaker 1: Biden is pre neoliberal. I mean, you know, I think

1082
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: he actually hearkens back to an era in which the

1083
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: state and business worked together better, and also parties worked

1084
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: across the aisle better. You know, I don't think there's

1085
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: been a more labor friendly president in this country in decades.

1086
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy has a bust of Caesar Chavez

1087
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: in his office, so I wouldn't call him a neoliberal.

1088
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: That said, there definitely is an existential fight I would

1089
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 1: say within the Democratic Party, not just folks that are

1090
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: in the administration, some of whom are, as you say, hardcore.

1091
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: You know markets, you are always right, everything has to

1092
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: be cheaper. You know you hear Larry Summers saying that

1093
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: drives me crazy. Cheap isn't cheap, by the way, if

1094
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: you factor in the real cost of energy, emissions, quality, labor,

1095
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: et cetera. But there is also a contingent that's saying,

1096
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 1: you know, hey, we need to do things a different way,

1097
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: and I know that that contingent has the president's ear Now,

1098
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: I will say, you asked about challenges earlier. The big

1099
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: challenge is inflation, because creating this new world frankly means

1100
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: pricing products the way they should be priced. We've gotten

1101
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: used to total cheap consumer culture in this country, and

1102
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 1: we thought we bought the kool aid that if we

1103
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: outsourced our entire industrial base didn't care about manufacturing jobs.

1104
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 1: Thought everybody could be a software programmer or a banker

1105
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: or you know, media people like we are, that the

1106
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: country would be fine. And it wasn't. Cheaper flat screen

1107
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: TVs in Walmart did not make up for the fact

1108
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: that the price of everything that makes us middle class, housing, healthcare,

1109
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: education is going up, even before the latest bout of

1110
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: inflation three times the triple you know, three times the

1111
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: core inflation rates. So that bargain doesn't work, and we've

1112
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: got to get to a better place, because you know,

1113
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: you cannot have an economy that's based simply on asset

1114
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: prices going up and the rich getting richer it. Just

1115
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: as I think you all would agree, we're really at

1116
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: a social breaking point here with this. Yeah, yeah, very

1117
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: very well said. You know, Ronna, you in Makers and

1118
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: Takers actually have an anecdote that I have referenced a

1119
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: number of times, but I think it's really important for

1120
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: understanding the realities of the modern economy because the system

1121
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: of neoliberalism, one of the promises is like, oh, this

1122
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: is going to fuel all kinds of innovation, but even

1123
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: whatever there was to be gained from that has sort

1124
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: of run its course. And you point to the fact

1125
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: that I think your your stats are when Apple decided

1126
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: to when they created the iPod, this like, you know,

1127
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: sort of transport formative device and really popular and all

1128
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: of this, they didn't actually do well in terms of

1129
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: the public markets and their stock price when they did

1130
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: their financial rigging stock buybacks. Oh, then they're rewarded, which

1131
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: is a perfect anecdote for what actually drives our economy

1132
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: at this point. So I wonder if you could explain

1133
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: that piece a little bit, because you know, I use

1134
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: this term like the economy's really financialized soccer, and I

1135
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: have thrown that around, but I'm not sure people really

1136
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: understand what that means. Could you help us help explain that. Yeah, absolutely,

1137
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: so it's a great point. So if you look back

1138
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: again to about the nineteen eighties, companies started being incentivized,

1139
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: and our whole economy sort of shifted to being incentivized

1140
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: to help companies. Global companies get bigger, get richer, things

1141
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: like bands on share buybacks, which are when a company

1142
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,479
Speaker 1: goes out and buys its own shares on the open market.

1143
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: That used to be considered manipulation because it automatically jacks

1144
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: up the price of shares, you know, because you're you're

1145
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: ring fencing them. That was turned over. So you know,

1146
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: companies start spending a lot of money on their own shares.

1147
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: They start spending less money on things like you know,

1148
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: R and D or building new factories or retraining workers.

1149
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: There's an idea, you know, and that just gets put

1150
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: on kerosene fuel. In the nineties, with tax to preferential

1151
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: treatment for shares, you know, the Silicon Valley movement towards

1152
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: paying people and shares. So basically the economy starts to

1153
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: be all about pleasing Wall Street, not building real things

1154
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: on Main Street. And so that's why you have this

1155
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: very weird feeling that and we all felt this in

1156
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Wait a minute, the sky is falling, and

1157
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: yet stock prices are higher than they have ever been. Well,

1158
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: that's because we threw the ball to the Fed for

1159
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: the last forty years. Both parties did and said you

1160
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: fix it, keep breaks low, you know. But what that

1161
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: does is it just inflates asset prices. It doesn't change

1162
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: the story on Main Street. It doesn't help us create

1163
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: the new new thing, and we're now at the end

1164
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: of that too because interest rates are rising. We're done

1165
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: with cheap capital, We're largely done with cheap line labor

1166
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: from China because they're ring fencing their own economy, and

1167
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: we're done with cheap energy from Russia. So that whole

1168
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: cheap you know model is gone, and we need a

1169
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: new plan. And some of it is going to have

1170
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: to be about building resilience at home, paying workers more,

1171
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: having a more balanced production and consumption economy, and then

1172
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: figuring out who's going to pick up the tab for that,

1173
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: because there are going to be some costs, and I

1174
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: suspect and I think it should be this way, that

1175
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: companies should should pay more. You know, I support things

1176
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: like the Chips Act to create some incentives to build

1177
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: semiconductors in this country. But I sure AzaC, don't want

1178
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: to see every industry lining up the White House to

1179
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: get bail you know, to get a handout or a bailout.

1180
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: They need to be spending their money productively to create

1181
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: real innovation, real growth, and real jobs. And you know,

1182
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: the clean energy transformation that we're going to be going

1183
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: through is the perfect example of this. If you look

1184
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: back historically, the periods in time where you see long

1185
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: term sustainable shared growth are when there is a transformative technology,

1186
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: say the railroads or the internet, and the public sector

1187
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: puts a floor under it, and then private sector companies

1188
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: come in and commercialize it, and that's when you start

1189
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: to lift all boats, not by doing financial engineering of

1190
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: share buybacks or private equity firms coming in and splicing

1191
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: and dicing companies. We've got to get away from that.

1192
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,479
Speaker 1: We can't compete with China if we keep doing that. Yeah.

1193
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: I think it's really well said, and I really encourage

1194
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: everybody to go and buy the book. We'll have a

1195
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: link down in the description. Thank you so much for

1196
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: joining us. We really appreciate it. Good to see Erna,

1197
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: Thank you. Good morning everybody, Happy Thursday. We have an

1198
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Risoul,

1199
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: A lot of interesting things to get to you today.

1200
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: So we are going to break down that Beetterment odds

1201
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: debate that of course has cut everyone's attention a lot

1202
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: of questions there. And also we have some new allegations

1203
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: against social Walker down in Georgia. So we'll catch you

1204
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: up to speed on everything related to the midterms, as

1205
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: we had done the stretch, new Biden comments with regards

1206
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: to Ukraine and Russia's potential nuclear use and also those

1207
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: dirty bomb allegations. Will break that down for you. Also,

1208
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: supposedly the Elon Musk Twitter deal is going to close tomorrow.

1209
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: Tomorrow he will showed up at headquarters carrying a sink

1210
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: for some reason we don't really know. This also comes

1211
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: amid this part was actually the most interesting to me.

1212
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: Some new research that came out about how Twitter is

1213
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: kind of dying, yes, losing some of their biggest users

1214
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: are like not really posting anymore, especially in news and politics,

1215
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: which is the most profitable topic areas. So we'll break

1216
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: that down for you as well. Ken Clippenstein had a

1217
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: great scoop about the FED and really expose something that

1218
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: goes on there that almost no one knows about, which

1219
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: is they are lobbied, just like legislators here, are lobbied

1220
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: by business and banking interest, but without any sort of

1221
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: democratic pushback or accountability on the other side. So he

1222
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: goes deep into how that all works. Also, Senator Menendez

1223
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: once again under criminal investigation, So we will tell you

1224
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: what we know about that. I'm also very excited about

1225
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: our guest today. He's a former longtime CIA agent. He

1226
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: was actually station chief in Moscow, which is crazy, and

1227
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: he has a pretty interesting theory about exactly who really

1228
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: murdered JFK. This all comes amid the reason we're doing

1229
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: this now is because the Biden administration is being sued

1230
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: for not releasing the JFK assassination related documents that they

1231
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: are congressionally mandated to Now. They were supposed to be

1232
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: released under the Trump administration. Trump administration kicked the ball

1233
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: to the Biden administration. Biden administration still stonewalling. What are

1234
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: they hiding everybody. We're going to talk to Ralph Mowatt

1235
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: Larson about all of that, but we did want to

1236
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: start with that Fetterman Oz debate. You guys know the

1237
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: backstory here. John Fetterman, the Democratic nominee current Lieutenant governor

1238
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: of the state of Pennsylvania, suffered a stroke just before

1239
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: he won his primary. Now he has only recently started

1240
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: doing any interviews whatsoever. There was a huge kerfuffle after

1241
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: he gave one interview to NBC News in the order

1242
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 1: indicated you know, hey, yeah, trouble understanding what I was

1243
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: saying in small talk. So this was a much anticipated debate.

1244
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: It's the only debate that these two are having. And

1245
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: let's just say it was really rough. It was very

1246
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 1: rough to watch. We wanted to pull a clip for

1247
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: you that was not sort of like cherry picked or

1248
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: just like you know, the worst moments or even the

1249
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: best moments. So we decided to pull for you both

1250
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: of their closing statements, both Oz and Fetterman, so you

1251
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: could just get a sense of how this all went.

1252
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: Let's take a look, all right, at this time, we

1253
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: are ready for our closing statements. You each have ninety

1254
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: seconds to convince Pennsylvanians to vote for you on election day.

1255
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: Mister Fetterman, you are first ninety seconds. Once again, I

1256
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: would just like to say that I my campaign is

1257
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: all about fighting for anyone in Pennsylvania that ever got

1258
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: knocked down that had to get back up again. You know,

1259
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm also fighting for any forgotten community all across Pennsylvania's

1260
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: they ever got knocked down that had to be made

1261
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: to get back up. And I've made my entire career

1262
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: dedicating to those kinds of pursuits. I started as a

1263
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: ged instructor back in Braddock over twenty years ago, because

1264
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: I believe it's about serving Pennsylvania, not about using Pennsylvania

1265
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: for their own end interests as well. To me, careers

1266
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: are filed by your underlying values, and my values have

1267
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: always been about fighting for forgotten communities all across Pennsylvania.

1268
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, mister Fetterman, mister Oz, your final

1269
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: thoughts ninety seconds. I love traveling into the four corners

1270
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: of the beautiful Commonwealth, and I've heard your problems. I'm

1271
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: a surgeon, doctor. I listened to what you say, and

1272
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm trying to help address them today. I've talked to

1273
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: seniors worried their Social Security checks wouldn't go far enough

1274
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: with the raging inflation. I've talked to couples want to

1275
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: make their first down payment on a new house and

1276
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: they can't afford it anymore because of interest rates. I've

1277
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: talked to families you want to cut Social Secure, mister Fetterman,

1278
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: it's his term for his closing. I've talked to families

1279
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 1: worried about sentinels showing up in their mailbox and literally

1280
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: taking the lives of their children who they find blue

1281
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: in bed. I've talked to families who won't let the

1282
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: kids go outside because of the crime wave that's been

1283
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: facilitated by left radical policies like the ones John Fetterman

1284
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: has been advocating for. But here's the deal, right, none

1285
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: of this has to happen. This is all very addressable.

1286
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: I'm a surgeon, I'm not a politician. We take big problems,

1287
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: we focus on them, and we fix them. We do

1288
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: it by uniting, by coming together, not dividing, and by

1289
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: doing that we can get ahead. But I've got one

1290
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: question to challenge you with, just one question. If you

1291
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: take what I'm saying to heart, ask yourself this and

1292
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: others in your family. Are you unhappy with where America

1293
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: is headed? I am, and if you are as well,

1294
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: that I'm the candidate for change. I'm a living embodiment

1295
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: of the American dream. I believe we're the land of

1296
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: opportunity to land up planting. I believe we can balance

1297
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: a budget without recklessly spending. I believe we can have

1298
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: an unleashed energy policy helps us all. I believe that

1299
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: we can have safe city streets and a secure border

1300
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: so legal immigrants can come across. But you shut the

1301
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: fenceintel out. I believe we can give parents choice and

1302
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: where their kids go to school, we can have affordable

1303
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: health care. Most of all, I believe in you. And

1304
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: if you can do this together and we can, I

1305
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: would ask for your vote on election day. So it

1306
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of how the debate went. I

1307
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: mean it was. It was difficult to watch, and I

1308
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: honestly I can't stop thinking about it because I just

1309
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: honestly feel so badly for John Fetterman. I mean, you

1310
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: think about it, like, here's a man who was, you know,

1311
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: larger than life, and this political towur to force. We

1312
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,919
Speaker 1: interviewed him before the stroke. We interviewed him actually before

1313
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: he sort of blew up on the national stage, and

1314
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: were impressed with him. You know, he's always He's never

1315
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: been like Oz Is very os the television personality is

1316
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: obviously very nimble on his feet and very you know,

1317
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: smooth talking and all those things like that was never Fetterman.

1318
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: Fetterman was always like very sort of plain spoken, very direct.

1319
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: So they would have stylistically, even without the stroke, come

1320
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: across very different. But I just can't stop thinking about

1321
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: there you are in the cusp of this primary victory.

1322
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: You're not just you know, a standard issue political figure.

1323
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: This is a guy who really you know, cut this

1324
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 1: imposing figure, was incredibly unique in terms of the Democratic Party,

1325
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,839
Speaker 1: really potential, you know, massive star park power, and now

1326
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: struggling to just you know, basically articulate his thoughts. And again,

1327
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: just so you know that we're not cherry picking here,

1328
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: this was the reaction to the people who watched the debate.

1329
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: Eighty two percent said that OZ won, eighteen percent, said

1330
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: Fetterman one. So I mean overwhelmingly, you know, people felt

1331
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: like OZ had the better night, no doubt about it.

1332
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: And you know, we're going to talk a little bit

1333
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 1: more about the media reaction. I do think I listened

1334
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: to him in previous interviews where he's he definitely you

1335
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: could tell he had a stroke. We've seen him on

1336
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: the campaign trail. You could tell he was struggling for

1337
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: wards at times, you know, wishing things to get whether

1338
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: sometimes something wouldn't come out. Obviously he had to have

1339
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 1: the close captioning in order to process. This was the

1340
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: worst that I'd seen him though, And I feel like

1341
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: the stress and pressure of the situation really kind of

1342
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: got to him, you know, on the question of what

1343
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: it's going to mean politically, I have no idea. I

1344
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: continue to believe that probably the biggest issue for Fetterman

1345
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 1: is the same issue that every Democrat across the country

1346
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: is suffering, which is, like, you know, Arizona is now

1347
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: a toss up according to the latest analysis because trends

1348
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: are moving in Republicans direction across the board. The head

1349
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: of the d trip C that you know, who's in

1350
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: a Biden plus ten district, is on the ropes. So

1351
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: things the national wins are probably the biggest problem that

1352
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: he has. I think, you know, it's reasonable for the

1353
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,600
Speaker 1: campaign to feel like, Okay, this probably is going to

1354
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,759
Speaker 1: knock us back a few points, and ultimately, in a

1355
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 1: race that's as close as this, that could be the difference.

1356
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: But you know, I can't help but admire the guy

1357
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: for having the courage to actually do this, because you

1358
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 1: look in Arizona Katie Hobbs and the governor's race, like

1359
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: she's just not debating, she has no health issue or whatever.

1360
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: She's just afraid that Carrie Lake is going to get

1361
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 1: the better of her because she's a better debater. I

1362
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: mean literally, right, And I think that all can it

1363
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 1: should have to debate. I think it's important for people

1364
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: to have transparency about, you know, where he is in

1365
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: his recovery. I don't think that should be off the

1366
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: table to discuss. For me personally, it wouldn't be a

1367
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: hard decision because the most important thing to me is

1368
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: how he would ultimately vote. You're up against a dude

1369
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 1: who doesn't even believe in the federal minimum wage. But

1370
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: ultimately that's for voters to decide, and we'll see what

1371
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: they think. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't want to

1372
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: be mean, and because I see that many people are

1373
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: upset about this, but I thought that was stunning in

1374
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 1: that it was much worse than I think that his

1375
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: campaign and him had ever let on before. And I

1376
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 1: do think it's an issue, which is that at the

1377
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: end of the day, the man does not actually released

1378
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: his medical records. Always released is a signed letter from

1379
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 1: a doctor who is a campaign donor to him, who

1380
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: claims he's going to be better. We were looking previously

1381
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: at a neurologist clip where they said that, look, you know,

1382
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 1: most recovery, the best recovery comes in three to six months.

1383
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: It's been six months. There's no indication that he's going

1384
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: to get better from here. I don't think we can

1385
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: believe in good faith that the man is telling is

1386
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: the truth that he has zero cognitive damage. I mean,

1387
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: there's listen, we are all armchair people. I have no

1388
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 1: idea what's going on inside of his brain. That's for

1389
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: a neurologist to decide. And they have not released his

1390
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,640
Speaker 1: doctor to questioning. It's on him after that display to

1391
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: prove to us that his brain is not permanently damaged.

1392
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, like I come away from that and that's

1393
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: the least amount of stress that you might face one

1394
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: day as a senator. And I just disagree wholeheartedly with

1395
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 1: this ongoing cope. And me my see on the left,

1396
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: which is like, well, what all senators do is just

1397
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 1: show up and vote. I'm like, okay, hold on a second.

1398
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 1: This is one of the most powerful people in Washington

1399
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: is an individual senator. They can hold up legislation, they

1400
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: can hold up nominees. They vote for judges, they vote

1401
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: for wars, they vote for treaties. They decide immensely. Look

1402
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: at the power of Rand Paul when he wants to

1403
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 1: be useful. Look at the power of Joe Manchin and

1404
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: Kristen Cinema when they want to be useful. Well, I

1405
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: am just not going to sit here and be told

1406
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,799
Speaker 1: that it's okay for somebody whose brain is possibly fried

1407
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: to be a senator from from the state of Pennsylvania.

1408
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 1: Concerns who are most critical of Fetterman, Yeah, they're prohersial walker,

1409
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: They're full of shit. I really care about the health issues.

1410
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: They care about how he's going to vote. He's not

1411
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: going to vote the way they want him to. Sure,

1412
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: So you know, I personally, for me again, it wouldn't

1413
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 1: be a difficult decision because there's nothing to me that

1414
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: indicates he doesn't know what his values are that he

1415
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't know how to, you know, take a vote on

1416
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: the issues that matter to me. You're up against a

1417
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 1: dude who literally doesn't support the federal minimum wage, has

1418
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: actually been much cagier about what he views thinks on

1419
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: a variety of issues, especially abortion, And so you know,

1420
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like how they're going

1421
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: to vote on the issues and the bills that are

1422
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: in front of them, I think that is the most

1423
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: important thing. Now, you know, would it be better if

1424
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: you had someone like for your normal run of the

1425
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: mill senator. It actually is just the taking the votes

1426
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 1: that is the thing. You do have people like you know,

1427
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:52,799
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren. I have issues with her, but she brings

1428
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 1: something to the table and her questioning and whatever that

1429
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: obviously goes beyond just like taking a vote, but ultimately

1430
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: with a lot of just your on a standard issue,

1431
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: run of the mill senators, basically the job is to

1432
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: vote on issues. So anyway, I mean, the other thing

1433
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: that cuts against this is, you know, Oz does continue

1434
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: to come off as kind of like a smarmy asshole,

1435
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 1: and I don't think that he handled this well because

1436
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: he didn't need to take shots at Fetterman. There were

1437
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: some sort of underhanded jabs at Fetterman's health condition currently,

1438
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: and so he continues to be like not a very

1439
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,640
Speaker 1: likable guy. And ultimately, if I had to bet, I

1440
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: would say this was you know, damaging to Fetterman. Probably

1441
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: cuts a couple points off of him. But I also

1442
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: just really don't know because the voters have responded in

1443
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: ways that I've been surprised about. Again, you know, I

1444
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: was actually talking to my mom about this, and she's

1445
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 1: my very my like touchstone for the kind of like

1446
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: normy swing voter type, and her response was empathy and

1447
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 1: like God, I give the guy credit for having the

1448
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 1: courage to do this. I think you're right, which is that. Look,

1449
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: I've I have found myself with the vehemence of old people.

1450
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 1: Every time I've gone after Joe Biden, They're like, oh,

1451
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: can't you give him? Cut hims to slack a Personally,

1452
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 1: I think we should hold our leaders to a higher thing.

1453
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: But so I'm like, what do I know right on

1454
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: the presidency and he continues to be outside of you know,

1455
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 1: a few people, probably a Democrat's strongest chance for the

1456
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:13,719
Speaker 1: next time around, That's what I'm saying. So I'm like, look,

1457
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, people can make their own minds. As I

1458
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 1: alluded to, let's put this on the screen. I'll never

1459
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: forget reading this. I actually read this back in college.

1460
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 1: It's twenty twelve, big study from political scientists that reviewed

1461
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: reams of political polling data going back over decades all

1462
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 1: the way from JFK onward. Do presidential debates and those

1463
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: are the highest highest engaged debates? Do they matter? Almost never? Not? Really?

1464
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: They basically are a wash. Now. As Ryan Grimm once

1465
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 1: said on our show, all of the stamp studies that

1466
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 1: regard candidate quality never had to deal with candidates as

1467
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 1: poor quality as oz Herschel Walker, Blake Masters. So I

1468
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, but those people are all tied

1469
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: in the polls. If I were to bet on the fundamentals,

1470
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,679
Speaker 1: I would bet on all three to actually win their race.

1471
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 1: So in this debate, will it matter? Look, I gave

1472
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:00,080
Speaker 1: you my personal view. I'm also not going to to

1473
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: sit here and tell you that my personal view has

1474
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 1: any sway or is even in the median mind of

1475
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania voter. I was talking recently the media in

1476
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania voter is a fifty three year old man. What

1477
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 1: fifty three year old white man who did not go

1478
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 1: to college. I am not that person. I don't live

1479
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: in pow. I've only been a couple of times. I

1480
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:18,640
Speaker 1: have no idea what these people are going to vote on.

1481
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, I trust him

1482
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: the voters, they can decide what you know themselves. I

1483
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: do think the major takeaway is at Oz. You know,

1484
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: for all the so called backhand, I didn't read into

1485
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 1: it as much. You know, I watched the whole debate

1486
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: and I didn't see a lot of that. For what

1487
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 1: I saw, the major takeaway from the RNC was they

1488
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: were playing his loop. He had a terrible answer, to

1489
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: be honest, on fracking, where he was basically like a

1490
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,640
Speaker 1: support that he was like, I support fracking. It was

1491
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: very stilted. It was also a flip flop, right because

1492
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: he actually did not support fracking. I remember we were

1493
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: talking about this back whenever we interviewed him. So they

1494
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: are playing clips back to back of him used to

1495
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: saying it and now and hammering him actually more on

1496
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: a policy matter, given the gas prices plus the crime.

1497
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one that I think, I honestly don't

1498
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: know that fracking is like the issue that it once

1499
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: was in that region. But I do think listen again,

1500
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: my analysis in general, and we're about to talk to

1501
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: about herschel Walker here in a few minutes. But is

1502
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: that as much as I would like candidate quality? Yeah,

1503
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: so I just don't think it really does. We see

1504
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: all of these races moving the same direction right now.

1505
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's Fetterman who's struggling in Pennsylvania, whether

1506
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 1: it's Mark Kelly, who you know is seen as a

1507
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:34,679
Speaker 1: very strong candidate out in Arizona. Blake Masters is closing

1508
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 1: the gap there. That's now a toss up race, whether

1509
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,799
Speaker 1: it's you know, down in Georgia, like every single race

1510
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: seems to be moving and shifting towards the Republicans. I

1511
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: don't see that as having much to do with any

1512
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: of these candidates individual like, personality, charisma, platform abilities, whatever.

1513
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 1: I think it has a lot more to do with

1514
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: the national mood. So do I think it might matter

1515
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: on the margins. Yeah, And if this comes down to

1516
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 1: a few thousand votes in you know, a few key districts,

1517
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: then you could talk, You could be making the case

1518
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: that this debate was the difference maker. If it ends

1519
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: up not really being closed in either direction, then you know,

1520
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: obviously not just so we have a sense of where

1521
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: this is right now, and this kind of underscores our point.

1522
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: Right now, in the five thirty eight average, Fetterman is

1523
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: plus two point three. There was a time when he

1524
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:31,599
Speaker 1: was up twelve in the average. Okay, now again that's

1525
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 1: before even before there were any you know, interviews or

1526
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 1: really any very strong concerns about his recovery process. Those

1527
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 1: that tightening and closing of the gap really has everything

1528
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: to do with the national wins, because we see that

1529
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 1: happening in race after race after race, you know, The

1530
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 1: other thing that I think is important to note here

1531
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 1: not only that the gap has closed, but there was

1532
01:17:56,360 --> 01:18:00,919
Speaker 1: a time when Fetterman's average was up over fifty percent,

1533
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 1: and now it's down at forty seven point two percent.

1534
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 1: And I think also a lot of what's happened in

1535
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: some of these races where the base didn't love the

1536
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: candidate they ended up with, or there were candidate quality

1537
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 1: issues on the Republican side, the Republican base is also

1538
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 1: starting to come home. And you've seen that, you know,

1539
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: certainly here, and you've seen it in Georgia as well. No,

1540
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 1: I think you're right, Crystal, And actually I just checked

1541
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: the RCP average. Their average actually has Fetterment only up

1542
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,599
Speaker 1: by one point three percent. I mean, given I think

1543
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 1: the five thirty eight one like takes into account or

1544
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 1: whatever weighted, so RCP is just like a true average.

1545
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: And if the true average is one point three, we

1546
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: know the miss in Pennsylvania to be four points from

1547
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, no indication that the same miss isn't there.

1548
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: So I would probably rather be OZ right now, given

1549
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:46,639
Speaker 1: the way that things are trending. But again, like you said,

1550
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 1: it's not just about OZ. You have to zoom out

1551
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 1: and just say all GOP races, national ballot, everything moving

1552
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 1: in that direction fundamentals. Look, I'm just going to keep

1553
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: betting on them from the future. Yeah, I mean, look,

1554
01:18:57,760 --> 01:18:59,720
Speaker 1: maybe we could be completely wrong. Maybe Fetterman pulls it

1555
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 1: off by to knows, maybe the misses in the other

1556
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 1: direction for some unknown reason. But based on recent history,

1557
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: we can only can only go to war with the

1558
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: battle or the information that we have. Yeah, and with that, like, look,

1559
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 1: I personally I put my money on it. I was like,

1560
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 1: all right, fine, I think oz is going to win.

1561
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 1: This is an interesting story in its own right, I mean,

1562
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: far less interesting. Let's put this up there on the screen,

1563
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 1: which is that Elon Musk will officially take ownership of

1564
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 1: Twitter on Friday, or at least that's expected. I guess

1565
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 1: something still could technically happen, but he's notified deal makers

1566
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 1: and other equity holders in the company that he will

1567
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 1: finalize his takeover. He changed his Twitter bio to quote

1568
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:42,919
Speaker 1: chief Twit as you know. The real story is, okay,

1569
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:45,719
Speaker 1: now that Elon has effectively been forced to buy Twitter,

1570
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: what is he going to do with Twitter? There were

1571
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 1: He denied yesterday that he would be firing seventy five

1572
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: percent of the workforce, but he still could fire fifty

1573
01:19:55,680 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: and not you know, claim that Twitter right fo point

1574
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 1: two percent. I mean, look, Twitter has tremendous problems. They

1575
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: are a business which is long failing. Even though they

1576
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:09,719
Speaker 1: are put up there with the facebooks and the Googles

1577
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 1: of the world, they don't have even close to the

1578
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 1: same market capitalization. They don't have nearly the same amount

1579
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:18,719
Speaker 1: of operating revenue or even profit. It's not particularly profitable company.

1580
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: Of all the social media giants from a pure monetary perspective,

1581
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 1: it is by far the weakest, which is why he's

1582
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: able to buy it effectively with Tesla stock in the

1583
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 1: first place. Elon himself walked into the Twitter lobby yesterday.

1584
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put the video for those who

1585
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 1: are just watching. Who are watching, Elon walked into the

1586
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:40,839
Speaker 1: lobby of Twitter carrying a sink, saying, entering Twitter, HQ,

1587
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 1: let that sink in so bit of a pun I

1588
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 1: guess classic the real real dad joke there. Just put

1589
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: it all to this, which is that he just spent

1590
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 1: forty four billion in cash on a failing business which

1591
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: was probably worth twenty billion at best, and just to

1592
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 1: give you some insight people at Twitter who are obviously

1593
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 1: leaking in order to show you just how much of

1594
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 1: a mistake really, frankly was to even by Twitter put

1595
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 1: this up there, which is that internal Twitter data leaked

1596
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: to Reuters shows that the most active users, who are

1597
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: let's let's let me get the exact numbers here, the

1598
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: heavy tweeters, who account for less than ten percent of

1599
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:30,879
Speaker 1: monthly overall users but generate ninety percent of all tweets

1600
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: and half of all Twitter global revenue, have been quote

1601
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 1: in absolute decline since the pandemic began. A Twitter researcher

1602
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 1: has an internal document called where did the Tweeters Go?

1603
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: And what they define a heavy tweeter as is somebody

1604
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: who logs into Twitter six or seven times a week

1605
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 1: and tweets about three to four times a week, which

1606
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 1: most newspeople would put them to absolute shame. Yeah. Absolutely,

1607
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: I don't consider myself a heavy tweeter. Yeah. By this,

1608
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 1: definitely even I am. And I've carried mind back by

1609
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: ninety percent. Means to tweet like one hundred times a day,

1610
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 1: which is ies you wait a month. So anyway, the

1611
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 1: point being that the most active English speaking users, which

1612
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 1: make up most of the global revenue and most of

1613
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 1: the users on the Twitter platform have been in absolute decline.

1614
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 1: Now this is funny. What are the highest growing topics

1615
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: of interest in the last two years cryptocurrency, porn, crypto

1616
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: and porn BA that's basically it. I've given the crypto crash, right,

1617
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,920
Speaker 1: not inspired, they say, even crypto now with the crypto

1618
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: crash has been like plummeting in that one too. So

1619
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 1: now it's just porn and that's stuff. The core product

1620
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 1: of new sports and entertainment is apparently waning amongst those users.

1621
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:46,519
Speaker 1: And the problem is that, you know, no problem with porn.

1622
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: It's fine that it's on there. In fact, I think

1623
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 1: they actually do a pretty good job of like allowing

1624
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: there to be porn on Twitter, but with not like

1625
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 1: taking over everybody's timelines, you know what I mean. I've

1626
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 1: never personally seen it anyway, you haven't. I mean I

1627
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,799
Speaker 1: occasionally have. Well, there's one porn star who's like a

1628
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: male points star who was a massive fan. I won't

1629
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 1: even shout him out, but he's a massive fana for

1630
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 1: the show, and so one time I was like, oh,

1631
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 1: who is this guy? I was like, oh my god,

1632
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:10,719
Speaker 1: so shout out to you. I guess anyway, the issue

1633
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: from a business perspective is this not as profitable because

1634
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, blue chip advertisers, they don't have their ad

1635
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 1: next to whatever saga happened to stumble upon on Twitter.

1636
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: So that's the real issue from the business perspective. I

1637
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 1: know there's a lot to say about this. I mean,

1638
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: first with regard to Elon, like my position the whole

1639
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 1: time has just been let's wait and see. Let's see

1640
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: if the deal really closes, Let's see what he actually does.

1641
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:35,959
Speaker 1: Because he's thrown out all kinds of ideas and plans

1642
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: and you know, powerpoints and whatever. Let's see what direction

1643
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: he actually takes it in. Maybe it's better, maybe it's worse,

1644
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: maybe it's indifferent. I have no idea, So I'm just

1645
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: going to wait and see. Do I think there are

1646
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:50,160
Speaker 1: ways that you improve Twitter? Absolutely? I mean Twitter is

1647
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: like kind of a healthscale, like it's sort of great

1648
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 1: and it's sort of terrible, and it seems like even

1649
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: putting like the free speech and censorship piece aside, there

1650
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: are things that you could do that would make it

1651
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: less of a like healthscape where no matter what you say,

1652
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:04,640
Speaker 1: everybody's incentive is to be like, you're just stupid and

1653
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: terrible and intentionally misinterpret what you say. There are lots

1654
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 1: of other platforms that don't have that vibe in ethos.

1655
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough to understand why Twitter has that

1656
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 1: and other places like Instagram don't. But anyway, there seems

1657
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 1: like there could be improvements in terms of the equality

1658
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 1: of the discourse on the platform. Put that aside, Yeah,

1659
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: you have a thought. Well, I was just gonna say,

1660
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: I frankly think that that is probably what contributes to engagement. Well,

1661
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: that's why people make money. That's well maybe, But then

1662
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,600
Speaker 1: on the other hand, why are they losing these How

1663
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: are you tweeters? Maybe because Twitter is a miserable place

1664
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: to hang out, you know. So ultimately, it could be

1665
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 1: like a penny wise pound foolish kind of a situation

1666
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 1: of this culture that you've created, because yet any individual day,

1667
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: like the level of outrage and engagement and all of

1668
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 1: that is really ginned up. But over time people are like, what,

1669
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: like you, like, why do I have this in my brain?

1670
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 1: Why do I have this in my life? Why am

1671
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: I assessing over this day to day when it's making

1672
01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: me feel worse? So I don't know, I do think

1673
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: it's also there's a couple of things here. I mean

1674
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:11,719
Speaker 1: they point to specifically, engagement around liberal politics has taken

1675
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:15,759
Speaker 1: a heavy slide downward, which is just consistent with overall

1676
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:18,800
Speaker 1: news meeting, you know, general news media. I mean, yeah,

1677
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 1: they point to spikes around things like the US attack

1678
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 1: and the attack on the US Capitol on January sixth,

1679
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: but in general, huge declines on that. Also, they say

1680
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: they're losing a quote devastating percentage of heavy users are

1681
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: interested in fashion or celebrities like the Kardashian family, and

1682
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 1: they think that those particular users are just moving over

1683
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:45,920
Speaker 1: to places like Instagram TikTok in particular. I think TikTok probably, Yeah,

1684
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 1: it makes sense, which is look, at the end of

1685
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 1: the day, it was a great invention for distribution. But

1686
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,800
Speaker 1: I've always been the greatest critique is your individual power

1687
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 1: as a Twitter user, as a random small account is

1688
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:58,640
Speaker 1: just very low. You know, we see this, which is

1689
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 1: that disproportion, that's what point to ninety percent of all

1690
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:03,600
Speaker 1: tweets come from only ten percent of the user. But

1691
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 1: that's terribly I'm an engage, very unequals a place for

1692
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 1: elite thought exactly. But you know, that's not really a

1693
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: particularly good business. Look, he could try a lot of things.

1694
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 1: The Twitter subscription thing ultimately failed. They did a rollout. Now,

1695
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 1: if they could possibly force heaviest users to pay, that

1696
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 1: could work. You know, once you reach let's say, over

1697
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:23,920
Speaker 1: fifty thousand followers, you have to pay three to ninety

1698
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:26,480
Speaker 1: nine a month in order to maintain access to your followership.

1699
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 1: Not a terrible idea, actually, But there's a lot of

1700
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,640
Speaker 1: things that you can do on his current trajectory. I

1701
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 1: just don't see any way without massive layoff. Let's put

1702
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:36,200
Speaker 1: this on the screen, which is at Twitter users or

1703
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 1: Twitter employees have put it on an open letter basically

1704
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 1: saying please don't fire seventy five percent of us. But

1705
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 1: the irony is is that internal Twitter documents actually show

1706
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:49,639
Speaker 1: that the vast majority of the workforce was already kind

1707
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 1: of put at risk. They were already weighing massive layoffs

1708
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 1: at the company. Maybe not in the seventy fifth percentile rates,

1709
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: something like twenty percent or so of the workforce. So

1710
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:01,400
Speaker 1: no matter who took over this company, it was going

1711
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 1: to be a blood bath from day one. And look,

1712
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, I like Jack Dorsey just from a purely

1713
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 1: like ideological perspective. I think his heart was in the

1714
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 1: right place, but you know, God bless him, he did

1715
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 1: not do a good job in creating a good business here.

1716
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 1: And maybe it's not possible. Maybe it was always impossible

1717
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: for it to be a great business. It was. Maybe

1718
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:19,879
Speaker 1: it's one of those things like it's a great service

1719
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 1: like Google, but it just doesn't have the monetary back end.

1720
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: You know. One of the insights that Elon does have

1721
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 1: that I have all kinds of issues with Elon, but

1722
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 1: that I think is correct, is like he's very skeptical

1723
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 1: of public companies and public markets because of the way

1724
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: it messes up incentives, and he's absolutely creact about that.

1725
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 1: I mean, that's We talked to Rona Farujar earlier this week,

1726
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: who's a wonderful thinker and just wrote a great book

1727
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 1: called Homecoming, and has also written books like Makers and

1728
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 1: Takers all about the financialization of our economy. And the

1729
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 1: reality is private businesses really are much more incentivized to

1730
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 1: focus on the quality of their product. The numbers bear out.

1731
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 1: They invest way more in research and development versus you know,

1732
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: your public company. The whole game is like buying back

1733
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: your own stock and all this financial engineering crap. So

1734
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:12,599
Speaker 1: I mean that's another issue here as well. But look,

1735
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what he does. If if it

1736
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 1: improves the platform, that would be wonderful because it really

1737
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 1: is central to our elite discourse in political dialogue. I

1738
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:24,680
Speaker 1: mean in some ways, of course, like what happens on

1739
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 1: Twitter isn't real like so not Twitter's not real life whatever,

1740
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 1: but it does really set the agenda in terms of

1741
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,519
Speaker 1: elite opinion makers, and so it is a very critical

1742
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,760
Speaker 1: part of our public square. That's personally why I don't

1743
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: think it should be up to the whims of profit incentives.

1744
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 1: I think it should either be like basically, you know,

1745
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 1: public utility is part of the sort of infrastructure of

1746
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 1: how we conduct democracy. But if there are any marginal

1747
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 1: improvements that are made here, it would be a positive thing.

1748
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:51,680
Speaker 1: I would really like it. I mean, I think a

1749
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,000
Speaker 1: return to the chronological feed, which you can do you

1750
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: can do yourself, that would be better. I've done that,

1751
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: but most people don't do that away from the out

1752
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 1: agarithmic feed would be very beneficial. For There's a lot

1753
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 1: of things I could do for the service, but I

1754
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: just don't see a way that it makes a lot

1755
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 1: of money. That's why I just don't think that there's

1756
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 1: any world in which he will make any of his

1757
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 1: money back. But I mean, look, maybe he did the

1758
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 1: world a favor, which is that you burn your cash

1759
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 1: and you do, you know, basically eat the cost for

1760
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:17,920
Speaker 1: the rest of us to have a service, which I

1761
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,680
Speaker 1: do think is vital. But from a business perspective, I

1762
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:23,839
Speaker 1: really just don't see it. From an advertising related business,

1763
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 1: it's just not going to happen now. Is never bet

1764
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 1: against him. From a business perspective, I think all of

1765
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 1: us have learned that it's very possible he could turn

1766
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 1: the ship around. He could turn into a lean, mean

1767
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 1: machine and then just you know, increase the operating revenue

1768
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: and that alone would drive a profit, and then maybe

1769
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: he could even sell the company in the future. We'll

1770
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 1: see what he got, yeah, I mean, I don't really

1771
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 1: care how the business does I care about, like sure,

1772
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 1: how it is for society. We'll see, We'll see what

1773
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 1: he does.