1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt, 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: and today we're talking with Jillian john Food from Montana 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: Money Adventures. Joel, I am so excited that we're gonna 4 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: talk with Jillian's to day about her financial journey, starting 5 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: below the poverty line and drowning in debt, to paying 6 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: cash for her first house, investing in rental properties, and 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: now being able to take off for months at a 8 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: time to travel the country with her husband and five kids. 9 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: But that's a lot of kids, yeah, um, And what's 10 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: super impressive is that she is able to do all 11 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: of this without a massive income. She's never earned six 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: figures or honestly, she's never even had a salary even 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: close to that. Yeah. I think this is gonna be 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: an episode that speaks to a lot of people because 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: most folks don't earn particulously high salaries. And so, yeah, 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: what Jillian has been able to do with this huge 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: family and at the same time, with not a whole 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: lot of income is really impressive. So this should be 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: a really fun conversation. Yes, it should. You know what 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: else is fun that we do every week is we 21 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: have a craft beer. So, Joel, you want to introduce 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: our beer this week. Sure. Yeah. The kind folks over 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: at Bell's Brewery sent over one of their brand new 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: beers called Official and it's their newest take on a 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: hazy I p A. And so I'm looking forward to 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: giving into this one, buddy, Yeah, man, me too. You 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: know what's great about these big breweries picking up the 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: style is that, honestly, it's it's more affordable to have 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: a beer like this in a style that we really like, 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: that we can enjoy that without breaking the bank. Yeah, 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: And honestly, a lot of the beers that we drink 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: are kind of regionally available, and this is a beer 33 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: that's going to be available and almost every state, I 34 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: would imagine, So that's kind of cool exactly. So Joel, 35 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: that's enough of our beer talk. Let's introduce our guest, Jillian. 36 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thank you guys much for having me. 37 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: All Right, Jillian, I'm gonna start off really weird, and 38 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a quote from your blog that I 39 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: thought was really really fascinating and let's kind of get 40 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: off on the foot. So here we go. You said, 41 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: if I cut my hair at home, they might not notice. 42 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: If I drive an older car. They might tease me 43 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: a bit about my hoopdie. If I cook simple meals 44 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: at home, there isn't much to talk about. If our 45 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: vacations involve a tent, no one will think much of it. 46 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: If I paid cash for my modest home, they will 47 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: ask when we're going to move into something bigger. We 48 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: know what we want, what we value, and we'll do 49 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: what it takes to get there, even if we can't 50 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: share it on Facebook. More freedom, more choices, more opportunities, 51 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: more time for the things that matter. I was really 52 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: struck by that, and it seems like such an old 53 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: school kind of way of thinking. It's countercultural really to 54 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: the way people view possessions and the way they view 55 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: spending acquiring and so, yeah, why is that such an 56 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: important message for you? Why why do you feel that way? 57 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: And how how did you come to to kind of 58 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: think about your life in those terms? I think it 59 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: is a little countercultural, especially with the rise of social media. 60 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: It is up to the pressure and up the game 61 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: to live this life that other people will envy and 62 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: that other people will praise you for. But it's really 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: difficult to grow your net worth, to grow wealth, or 64 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: just to grow some financial freedom. If you're constantly spending 65 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: money to impress other people, if you're hoping for like 66 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: the little hearts and the little likes, or all of 67 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,839 Speaker 1: your coworkers to swoon over the new highlights in your hair, 68 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: or the new purse or the new car that you 69 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: pulled up in, you're never going to get unstuck from 70 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: that financial situation. I think that came from the post 71 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: where you were talking about how like you're up as 72 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: everyone else is down, basically kind of reversing how you 73 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: see everything. In addition obviously to the people's approval, I 74 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: think it's it's just awesome to have that mindset. How 75 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: did you live at that at that place, Like, how 76 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: did you get to that place where you felt confident? 77 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: I guess to to have that mindset and the way 78 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: you approached your finances and the life that you're living 79 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: to take those steps the confidence piece was really tough. 80 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: But I had I had grown up under the poverty line, 81 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: and I had decided from a really early age that 82 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: I wanted more financial freedom. And I realized that money 83 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: gives us choices. Having money in the bank allows us 84 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: to have more opportunities and to make different choices with 85 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: our life, and I really wanted that. The trouble was 86 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: me and my husband got married. We had fifty dollars 87 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: of debt, and neither of us got high earning degrees. 88 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: So I realized, money give us, will give us choices, 89 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: but we weren't going to be earning a lot of money. 90 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: And so then I was confronted with this, this reality 91 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: of either I could look rich and I could buy 92 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: all of the things, or I could save and invest 93 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: and paid own debt and grow my financial freedom. But 94 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: we weren't going to make enough money to be able 95 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: to do both. I had to choose look rich or 96 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: be rich, but we just we didn't have the income 97 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: bandwidth to pull both off at the same time. So, yeah, 98 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: you said you started off marriage with with in debt, 99 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: and that's a whole lot. And I think probably some 100 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: of our listeners at least can identify with having a 101 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: debt level somewhere near that, maybe above that, maybe less 102 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: than that. But when we're talking about Americans are in 103 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: some sort of debt, so it's definitely the norm. How 104 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: did you guys, when you got married, how did you 105 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: start to tackle it? What was that like on your 106 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: marriage to kind of join together in this really important 107 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: way to get married to one another, yet have this 108 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: major thing that you have to tackle right after you 109 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: say I do. Yeah. We got this piece of advice 110 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: right after we got married. The idea was you should 111 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: live on half. So if you had been living as 112 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: individuals on your income and you get married, the thinking was, 113 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, if you decide to have kids, if you 114 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: decide to have three kids or four kids or five 115 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: kids later down the road, and you've been used to 116 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: living on half, it'll be much easier to like afford childcare, 117 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: or if one parent wants to stay at home for 118 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: a while. So we decided right out of the gate 119 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: that we were going to do this try to live 120 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: on half consistently. And it required a lot of different choices. 121 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: It required a lot of countercultural choices to not just 122 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: use both of our incomes right at the gate. So 123 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: the first year we were married, we were in college. 124 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: I had actually been after I graduated high school. I 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: had purchased a camper like a fifth wheel camper for 126 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars and I had moved into it, and 127 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: we thought about living in student housing, and we tried 128 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: it for a month or two, But then we realized 129 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: it's really tough to live on half and be in 130 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: student housing. So we moved back into a camp or 131 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: for our first year of marriage. And it was a 132 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: very different choice, like none of you know, his college 133 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: friends were also living in campers, but it helped us 134 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: stay true to that that first goal. By the way, 135 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: you mentioned five kids in a joking fashion, but you 136 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: actually have five kids. We're gonna get into some more 137 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: on that too, Like we've got some definite questions about 138 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: that kind of coming up. So living in a camper 139 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: like that, Like, obviously that's an intentional decision, that's a 140 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: hard decision. And so what was it like for you 141 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: and your husband living life differently than all of your 142 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: friends at that point in time, choosing to make a 143 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: decision and it's not even a decision that's kind of 144 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: well hidden. It's one of those decisions that everyone can 145 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: see and everyone's like, oh, that's that's Jillian and she 146 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: lives in the fifth Wheel. What was that like for you? 147 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: And and how did you kind of get past the 148 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: stigmas that might pop up when you tell people that 149 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: it was really challenging to some degree because this was 150 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: and husband will have been married seventeen years this summer. 151 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: It's a van life, camper life, digital nomad. Like tiny homes, 152 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: these were not a thing yet. It was not popular. 153 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: Nobody like successful lived in campers. It was just kind 154 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: of us but having to to kind of do with 155 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: that reality of yeah, we could live in slightly nicer 156 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: accommodations or we could do these things that we're really 157 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: really passionate about. And that was a choice that we 158 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: had to make over and over during our twenties. Are 159 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: we going to trade our best life away, all of 160 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: our goals, all of our dreams for a slightly upgraded lifestyle, 161 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: And consistently we said no, like, well, we'll keep our 162 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: lifestyle low, We'll keep things kind of minimal and basic, 163 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: so we can kind of push all the chips in 164 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: the middle of the table and go all in on 165 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: the things that we were really passionate about. So how 166 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: did you and your husband basically get on the same 167 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: page you're talking about as clearly as you two are 168 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: a team, right like you're both working towards this, how 169 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: did you identify that those were goals that you both 170 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: had and I mean, was that difficult? You know? Did 171 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: you get there first, and then you kind of shared 172 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: the knowledge with him or you know, did you were 173 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: you both sort of on the same page or was 174 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: it even vice versa. So this is a common I 175 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: think challenge and struggle and a lot of relationships is 176 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: that one person loves the spreadsheets and they love the budgets, 177 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: and they love the worksheets and the numbers, and the 178 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: other person is just really laid back and flexible. And 179 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I like life and let's just 180 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: like we're fine. We're fine. And often times when I 181 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: work with couples or talk with couples, you know, it's 182 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: finding the way that they can both communicate and start 183 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: to discuss these goals and these dreams. Because the person 184 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: who doesn't love the numbers and the budget is never 185 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: going to love the numbers and the budget. You have 186 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: to kind of get together on what do you want 187 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: out of life, what are your dreams, what do we 188 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: want our lifestyle to look like, what's important to us? 189 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: And once you get on the same page with that, 190 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: then you can say, okay, so here's the budget that's 191 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: going to get us there, or here's the investment strategy 192 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: that's going to get us there. Or if we pay 193 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: off our car, you know, those vacations that you really 194 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: want to take, It's going to be way easier to 195 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: do that if we don't have a five a month 196 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: car payment. So that's what we started. We started with 197 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: just life planning and dreaming and thinking through being in 198 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: our young twenties and in love, like what do we 199 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: want to do? What's what's going to be our big 200 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: adventure in life? Matt. We've talked about this on the 201 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: show before, about budgeting and how most people think Jillian 202 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: that the budgeting is like this four letter word essentially, 203 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: But when you can frame it in the term of 204 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: you know what, let's make our money align with what 205 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: our actual values are, and it gives a married couple 206 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: in particular, this jumping off point to start to talk 207 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: about what's meaningful to them, as opposed to saying how 208 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: can we cut back and and become incredibly all year 209 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: in our spending, it becomes this, what do we really 210 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: want to pursue and what what do we want to 211 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: make out of life? What are the next five years, 212 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: what do we want them to look like? And then 213 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: you can prioritize putting your money in the proper places 214 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: whereas right now you're probably most people just aimlessly put 215 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: their money towards the things that everyone around them is 216 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: putting their money towards. Yeah, and that can be really 217 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: dangerous because we were naturally wired to be able to 218 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: see the difference between good things or shoddy things. You know, 219 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: if you look at a really shoddy shed that's about 220 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: to fall over, or really nicely built shed, even if 221 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: you know nothing about construction, you can say, hey, this 222 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: one looks nicer than that one. You can look at 223 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: like a small, dull looking diamond or a big shiny 224 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: one and be like, hey, this one looks nicer than 225 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: that one. So, if you're not really driven by your 226 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: purpose and by your values, if you have to pick 227 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: between the nice ceiling fan and the crappy looking ceiling fan, 228 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: you'll just pick the nice one that's historically served us 229 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: really well. Except now we're in this time where there's 230 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: unlimited choices, unlimited options, and you can buy things with credit. 231 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: You don't even have to have the resources to buy 232 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: the nice thing. So Jillian spoiler alert here for the audience. 233 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: You became financially independent at the age of thirty two, 234 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: which is pretty insane, right, that's incredibly young. That means 235 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: that you guys made a whole lot of intentional choices, 236 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: intentional decision making. But also at the same time, you 237 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: and your husband never made more of a combined income 238 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: than sixty dollars in a year. And so I think 239 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: anybody hearing that's like what what huh in their head 240 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: just exploded because that does seem impossible. And so most 241 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: folks out there would say, well, first off, the concept 242 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: of financial independence in your thirties, much less forties seems insane. 243 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: And then second off, doing it on a salary that 244 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: is combined at less than sixty why isn't that impossible? 245 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: And how did you do it? Yeah? I honestly, if 246 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: someone would have told me at twenty, hey, you should 247 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: like be financially independent, be able to retire thirty two, 248 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: I would have called bus. I would have been like, 249 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: that's not possible, Like you don't understand math um, it 250 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: just didn't seem possible. And well, financial independence is fantastic. 251 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: You know. It's the point where your passive income covers 252 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: all of your expenses and you really get to decide 253 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: what you want to do with your life now that 254 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: you don't have to work for income, but it's not 255 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: the be all and end all. Financial freedom is a spectrum, 256 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: and so in our early twenties, we were just focused 257 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: on growing that gap between our income and our expenses 258 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: um and having grown up under the poverty line, like 259 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: if if you don't earn crazy incomes, shoot start for 260 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: that first hundred bucks. Like if you can grow the 261 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: gap a hundred dollars or if you can grow the 262 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: gap a thousand dollars a month, it creates so much 263 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: more financial freedom, It creates more options, it lowers your stress, 264 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: Like incrementally, you're better off at every single stage in 265 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: the game. So we kind of stuck with the like 266 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: live on half rule, and essentially for us, that meant 267 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: that into our twenties, after we both had jobs, after 268 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: we had two kids, we were still living like college students. 269 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: That's what that looked like. And none of our friends, 270 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: none of our coworkers wanted to sign up for that. 271 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, guys, like we have 272 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: a roommate, and this is amazing. And having that one 273 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: decision of a roommate saved us twenty five dollars over 274 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: three years. And I told everyone, oh my gosh, you 275 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: guys should have a roommate, and they're like, yeah, Jill, Um, 276 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: we're real adults and like we um, we have kids 277 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: and we like our privacy, and I'm like, I like dollars. 278 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: So that's an abnormal decision, right, That's not something that 279 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: most people would do. And you made that one choice 280 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: in and that's huge, huge money, right. I mean, like 281 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: that is the kind of thing that can easily grow 282 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: that gap. But it is one of those things that 283 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: for most people it feels like it's it's too far. 284 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: It's like, no, I'm not going to go to that length. 285 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: And I think we run up on this all the 286 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: time where it's like we hear back from people, heard 287 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: back from people recently, you have three girls currently in 288 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: one room, you're about to put a fourth thout four 289 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: kids in one room, and I have two girls in 290 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: one room and I just put the crib in. Therefore, 291 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: when we have our third baby, we're gonna have three 292 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: kids in one room. And a lot of people were like, 293 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: you guys are insane, But to us, it's like why 294 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: why not? Why are we actually insane? Yeah? Yeah, I 295 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: know that's a lot, but on on paper, like it 296 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: seems crazy but in reality, yeah, like, yeah, it gets 297 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: a little kind of chaotic sometimes, But why is that 298 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: not a normal choice? Right? Like? And that's I think 299 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: that's what we're asking here too, is with you know, 300 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: your choice to to have a roommate. I mean, you 301 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: guys were you weren't just married, but you had a 302 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: baby at that time, right, like, then you have a kid. 303 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: We had one, and during those three years we had 304 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: our second child. So we were in our mid twenties, 305 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: we were both working professional jobs, We're living in the 306 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: DC area, and we had a housemate. It was amazing 307 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: that one choice. Not only did it save us a 308 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: dollars which we invested, but four years after that, that 309 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: money was how we bought our first rental property. It 310 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: gave us the down payment for our first rental property, 311 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: and that first rental property, three years later created the 312 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: income for our down payment of our second rental property. 313 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: Those two rental properties create of our passive income. Now 314 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: from that one choice that everyone else said, like I 315 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: would like my privacy, those now passively create twelve a 316 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: month and income I like that twe a month. Yeah, 317 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: it can be like dominoes at fall. It's every little 318 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: choice that you make Initially it cascades, and so for 319 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: me when I bought my first house, I had a 320 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: roommate for a little while, and then I was saving 321 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: up and about my first rental property, and so very 322 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: similar in the way that then that income from the 323 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: rental property allows me to to save up to buy 324 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: for the down payment on the next home. And it's 325 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: this kind of cascading effect. But but you have to 326 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: start somewhere, and you have to make difficult decisions sometimes, 327 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: and so I think it's important too for people to 328 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: hear what are the kind of decisions that people are making, 329 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: and it is stuff like taking on a roommate. You 330 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: also bought a house that was that that you live 331 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: in now, right, that that was completely disheveled and you 332 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: had to do a lot of work to it, and 333 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: you did a lot of that work yourself, So to 334 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: tell us about that, Yeah, that was always kind of 335 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: a lifelong goal to be able to pay cash for 336 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: a house because I grown up in kind of a 337 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: tumultuous family situation. Like the idea of owning a house 338 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: that was mine and it was stable and safe, like 339 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: it was so appealing to me, And we ended up 340 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: renting for ten years, ten years of renting, ten years 341 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: of saving, and when we moved back to the States 342 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: because we had the chance to live abroad for four years. 343 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: We move back to the States and we had about 344 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: two d fifty thou dollars, which this is like two 345 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: thousand twelve, and so in our area at that time, 346 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the very end of the housing crisis. 347 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: We could have bought a very nice house for like 348 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand, could have bought a very nice house 349 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: for a hundred and fifty. We could have bought a 350 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: pretty decent house for a hundred. But we found a 351 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: house that had been in foreclosure. They actually had an 352 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: accepted offer on it, but the seller or the buyer 353 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: backed out because black mold was crawling up the stairs. 354 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: It had infected the entire basement and it was spreading 355 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: through the whole house like a disease. And we were 356 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: able to pay fifty dollars cash for that. We had 357 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: cash that we could have bought a much nicer house. 358 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: But I was like, what do we want more? Do 359 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: we want more financial freedom or do we want a 360 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: nicer house? And to be honest, it was a rough year. 361 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: It was a rough year. We had no renovation experience. 362 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: We gutted the entire place down to the studs. We 363 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: watched a lot of YouTube videos, and I was working 364 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: full time, so it was like I would be gone 365 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: nine hours a day at work and then come home 366 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: and for the next four hours laying flooring, painting, retexturing, 367 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: Like it wasn't easy, and all of my coworkers are like, 368 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: you're insane. This is a stupid idea, Like why are 369 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: you doing this? And then five months later we bought 370 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: our first rental and started the whole process all over again, 371 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: and nobody thought that was a good idea. Those are incredible, 372 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: very clear steps that you took to achieve financial independence, 373 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: right um, and so after the break, we're going to 374 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: talk more about how you guys got to the place 375 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: where you knew that this is what you wanted to 376 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: strive after, more of sort of the why behind your money, 377 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: and we'll get to that right after the break. We're back, 378 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: and so we were just talking about black bold issue 379 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: and completely redoing a house while you're working full time. 380 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: So it's obvious that achieving financial independence doesn't come without 381 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: major sacrifices. And we've talked about multiple that you've made already. 382 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: You've also written about on your blog the idea of 383 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: figuring out your ideal day and your ideal year, what 384 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: those look like, and kind of the impact that that 385 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: can have. It's an element of kind of designing your 386 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: life and being intentional about your choices. So, so tell me, like, 387 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: what does that look like for a person to to 388 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: kind of design their ideal day, design their ideal year. 389 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: And then how does pulling black mold out of houses 390 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: maybe fit into that? Yeah, so the exer size of 391 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: designing your ideal kind of day, week and year is 392 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: really simple. It's kind of just looking like at a 393 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: schedule and saying, Okay, from the time I wake up, 394 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: what would I love my day to look like? And 395 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: not kind of like as a weekend or a vacation day, 396 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: but just your everyday life in the context of a week. 397 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: Why moments would you want in the week? Is it 398 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: going out with friends? Is it family time on the weekends, 399 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,239 Speaker 1: a little adventure? And during the year, what would be 400 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: some big chunks of things you would like to see 401 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: in the year. Because then with that clarity you can 402 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: really start making progress, like maybe tomorrow I'm getting closer 403 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: to the ideal day, week, and year. Some things take 404 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: a long time to accomplish. But if you're like ideally 405 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: I would love to, like meditate fifteen minutes a day, 406 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: y'all just need to get on that. Like you don't 407 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: needed it financial independence to do that. You don't have 408 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: to wait till you pay off debt. You don't. You 409 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: don't have to wait till the next big rays. Just 410 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: get going. And that's one of the somewhat disillusioning things 411 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: about becoming financially independent. Once people step away from their jobs, 412 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: they realize, Shoot, a lot of these things that I 413 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: wanted to do, I could have taken ground on those 414 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: five or ten years ago. I didn't have to wait 415 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: until everything was perfect with my me to like have 416 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: dinner with my kids, or to meditate, or to start 417 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: working out, even if it's like watching a workout video 418 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,719 Speaker 1: on YouTube before you go to work in the morning. 419 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: Knowing your ideal can help you say, what's the next 420 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: little step that I could take to make that possible. 421 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: So for us, I knew that while I loved working, 422 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: I also didn't want to work fifty hours a week. 423 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: That was not my ideal. I would have loved to 424 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: work two or three or four hours a day, and 425 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: I would have loved to be able to travel with 426 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: my family for long periods of time, for three weeks, 427 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: six weeks, ten weeks, And to do that, I was 428 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: going to need really low monthly expenses, a a pay 429 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: in cash for a house, and I was going to 430 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: need some passive income to help fill the gap between 431 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: working extremely reduced hours and our expenses. Yeah, so you 432 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: you mentioned kind of traveling with your family, Jilian, A 433 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: big part of like creating that I deal life for 434 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: you is kind of going on these bigger trips. We 435 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: know in a couple of months you're planning on going 436 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: on this big road trip and that's awesome, right, Just 437 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: like you said, taking these small baby steps to sort 438 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: of start achieving the life that you actually want to 439 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: live is something that you can do well before you've 440 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: quit work or have achieved any sort of a semblance 441 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: of financial independence. But even still that being said, taking 442 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: that step and leaving work, I think for a lot 443 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: of people is incredibly hard. And for you, did you 444 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: find that to be difficult to step away from maybe 445 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: the typical American life of going to work and working 446 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: nine to five and you're giving up control to a 447 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: certain extent when you do that, What was that like? 448 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: Was it was that difficult? It was a little tricky. Um. Fortunately, 449 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: we had taken for many retirements before we got to 450 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: financial independence, so we had kind of tested and scaled 451 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: this idea in little, little manageable, low risk chunks. But 452 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: even that having kind of practiced financial independence a number 453 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: of times, once we got there, it was weird and 454 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: challenging to have both of us step away from our 455 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: jobs because we were both in our thirties, we had 456 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: five little kids at home, and we never were high 457 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: income earners. So everyone's like, what are you guys doing 458 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: when you have five little kids. You do not quit 459 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: a job. You keep a job. You keep any job 460 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: you can, And like what why why? And how like 461 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: how is this even possible? Because especially for our peers 462 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: and our friends, like they're like, you all were making 463 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: the same money we were. We have credit card debt 464 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: and we're just finished paying off our student loans and 465 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: we have a car loan, like and we we phrased 466 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: it as we're just going to take a year off, 467 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: We're just going to test it. We just need a break. Um, 468 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: we were financially independent at that point. But I wasn't 469 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't a hundred percent sure that we never wanted 470 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: to work again. So it was kind of just a 471 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: grand experiment. The fact that you have five kids just 472 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: I brought up again, So let's get into that you 473 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: have also adopted. An adoption is such an intentional decision. 474 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: It is one that takes a lot of thought, a 475 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: lot of discussion. We have friends that have adopted, and 476 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: it is it is not easy, right it bringing someone 477 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: into your family who is has been in who knows 478 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: what kind of living situations up until then. And so 479 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: why did you and Adam decided to adopt four children? 480 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: And what was Because that's a it's a big financial 481 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: cost as well. Adoption is very expensive. So yeah, tell 482 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: us why that was so important to you. Yeah, so 483 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, we talked about like there's a planner and 484 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: there's a girl with a flower. On my very first 485 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: date with my husband, who I didn't know before our 486 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: first date, I've brought a list of questions to our date, 487 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: and one of those questions was how do you how 488 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: do you feel about adoption? And he was like, oh, 489 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: I I love adoption. Yeah that sounds great, and I said, Okay, um, 490 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: how would you feel about adopting from foster care? And 491 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: he said, oh, I actually really like that idea too. 492 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: Like my parents after we moved out, they've become foster parents, 493 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: and I actually have a foster brother right now. And 494 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, check, check, you get date number two, 495 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: you move on to the next round. Congratulation with every 496 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: first date or is this just with your I'm gonna 497 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: say that's some intense questions right out of the gate. 498 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: It was, but you know what I tell him, like, buddy, 499 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: you knew what you signed up for when you got me. Like, 500 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: I was not pulling any punches. Um, I was going 501 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: to be the list bringer. I did bring it to 502 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: other dates. They obviously did not fare as well as 503 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: he did. Obviously this was something that was on your heart. 504 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: And was this partially because of the situation that you 505 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: were in growing up? Was it wanting to rescue other 506 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: kids from potentially something similar or the Yeah, what was 507 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: the impetus behind that decision? I just I realized that 508 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: having loving, supportive, and caring parents was like the greatest 509 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: gift that one person could give to another human being. 510 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: When we talk about privilege, that's the most amazing privilege 511 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: is having parents who believe in you and support you, 512 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: and our kind and generous and like, we'll launch you 513 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: into adulthood. And I just thought, if I could, I 514 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: didn't know what I could do with my life, but 515 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: if I could give that gift to some kids who 516 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: really really needed that, then I felt like I was good. 517 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: If that's the only thing I can do, That just 518 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: felt like the most worthy thing to dedicate my time 519 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: and my energy and my resources towards. I don't know 520 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: too that it can be expensive to go through the 521 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: process of adoption. Can you walk us through? Did you 522 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: guys save up for that? And were there any resources 523 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: that you found along the way in case there are 524 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: listeners out there that are interested in potentially adopting at 525 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: some point, are there ways to potentially lower the cost 526 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: of adopting a child? Yeah, so there are three basic 527 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: paths to adoption. You can adopt privately in the US, 528 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: you can adopt a child from overseas, or you can 529 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: adopt through the foster care system. And the kids I 530 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: felt that I could help the most and then needed 531 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: good families the most for us were kids in the 532 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: foster care system. Um, right, now in the US, at 533 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: any given time, there's about a hundred thousand kids available 534 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: for adoption of foster care. Like they're just waiting there. 535 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: There's just waiting for someone to show up and say, hey, 536 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: I'll take a chance on on you and I'll be 537 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: a family for you. So private adoption takes a really 538 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: long time. Um, there's a lot more adoptive parents, and 539 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: there are babies available, and you're looking at fifteen to 540 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: twenty thou dollars overseas adoption, while there is a great need, um, 541 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: also takes a long time and it's thirty thou dollars. 542 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: By adopting through the foster care system, most of your 543 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: licensing fees home steady fees. The government really tries to 544 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: help cover those kinds of costs because they're responsible for 545 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: these kids. It's it's on them to try to find 546 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: these hundred thousand kids loving wonderful families. And there's not 547 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people stepping up to the plate. 548 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: So they really tried to like reduce some of those 549 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: administrative fees. The largest cost for us was that one 550 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: of us had to stay home with the kiddo, so 551 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: and meant being able to cut our income in half 552 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: plus at the cost of of the kiddos. So thankfully 553 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: we had kept doing that like live on one income 554 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: rule because our our foster son came to us in 555 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: February five years ago. And then the social worker was like, oh, 556 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: and by the way, he has two little sisters, so 557 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: three was not like my perfect ideal number, but these 558 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: kiddos came as a three pack, and I said, okay, yeah, yeah, 559 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: we can. We can figure that out. We'll make it work. 560 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: And Jillian, that's amazing, right, Like you are pouring into others, 561 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: others lives like your children, like through the foster care system, 562 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: coaching others, kind of one on one coaching when it 563 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: comes to walking people through their not just their finances, 564 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: but sort of job transitions as well. So I guess 565 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: my question for you then, Jillian, is why are you 566 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: pursuing a life that is focused on helping others versus 567 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: a life that is focused on your own consumption and 568 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: your own comforts. Yeah, and how does financial independence play 569 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: into that? Yeah? I think for most people, when you've 570 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: come out of a situation, when you've been in a 571 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: tough spot and you realize just how good life can be, 572 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: on the other side of that tough spot. Oftentimes you 573 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: have a great desire to like go back and be 574 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: there but for other people and say like, hey, I've 575 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: walked this path and I know it's hard, and I 576 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: know you feel discouraged, but there is hope and life 577 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: can be different. Here's a couple of steps you can 578 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: take to make that difference. I wanted financial independence so 579 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: I could have more freedom and more options. And the 580 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: kind of crazy thing was, when we first got married, 581 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: I really knew we wanted to adopt. I knew we 582 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: wanted to be able to pay cash for a house, 583 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: and we wanted to be able to travel. But then 584 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: by the time we were thirty two and we achieved 585 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: financial independence, we had adopted four kids, we had traveled 586 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: to twenty seven countries, and we had paid cash for 587 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: our house. So then I was like, Okay, huh, now 588 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: what are we going to do next? And financial independence 589 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: just gave us the ability to double down on on 590 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: those bigger dreams, on those next dreams, the stuff that 591 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: I never would have had the courage to even dream 592 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: about when I was twenty. And so now are our 593 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: goals and our dreams, like even are even bigger, and 594 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: I want to share this with as many people as possible, 595 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: because we only get one shot at this life. I 596 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: always think about, you know, when I'm when I'm ninety, 597 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: what am I going to regret having never tried, having 598 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: never never given it a go? And for me, it 599 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: is it is sharing this freedom and this option with everyone, 600 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: because I just want everyone to have the chance to 601 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: live their very best life, like whatever they were put 602 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: on this ground to do, to live that out to 603 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: one degree or another. And I don't think that our 604 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: money or a credit card or a car payment should 605 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: stand in the way. Why why give away your biggest 606 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: dreams and your biggest purpose for a slightly nicer house, 607 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: a slightly nicer car. It's not even like, well, if 608 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: if I live my dreams, I have to live in 609 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: a shack, or if I don't, I get to live 610 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: a mansion. Like, No, you probably just get a slightly 611 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: nicer house by giving up everything that you really care 612 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: about you talked about when you were twenty. How you 613 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: have these ideas, You have these ideals, You have these goals, 614 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: and you met them in twelve years, which is pretty incredible. 615 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: Pretty much all of them. Now you've got more other goals, 616 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: other things you want to achieve for yourself and for 617 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: your family. But what would you say to someone who 618 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: is who's in their twenties and who says Because when 619 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: it comes to personal finance, there's certainly a lot of 620 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: nay saying. There's a lot of well I see this 621 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: person written up in this article and that's not real life. 622 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: Or I see this person and that doesn't seem possible 623 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: for me. So especially with someone coming from a background 624 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: where they haven't seen money used, Well, what would you 625 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: say to someone who's starting out, someone who's in there 626 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: eighteen year old, they're twenty years old, they're listening to 627 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: this show and they're like, where do I go from here? 628 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: Like your story is inspiring, but how do I get started? 629 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to just do the next 630 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: right thing and to kind of keep your eye on 631 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: the price, Like what you want out of your life? 632 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: What are you going to regret if you never do? 633 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: What do you want your legacy to be? Like? Start there, 634 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: because that's what's going to give the fuel to drive 635 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: you through. But if you're eighteen or twenty, I would 636 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: ask can you do hard things? Do you have that 637 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: in you? Do you have the capacity to struggle and 638 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: to do difficult things and to stay the course. And 639 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: if you don't, first thing tomorrow, learn how to do 640 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: hard things. Start with push ups, go to the gym 641 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: like I don't care, dig holes in your backyard like 642 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: I don't care. How you figure out how to do 643 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,479 Speaker 1: hard things, even stupid things like where something that doesn't 644 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: match at all, and go out in public and feel 645 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: just physically uncomfortable with everyone looking at you, going, that's 646 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: really good at that? Just dress like you guys all 647 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: the time. I'm just gonna be me whatever I want, 648 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: Just be you. Yeah, But learn how to do hard things, 649 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: because you're going to have to do difficult things. Everything 650 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: in life that's worth doing will be difficult. Whether that's 651 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: raising kids or having an amazing marriage, or finding a 652 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: meaningful career or having an enormous impact on the people 653 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: around you. None of that is cheap and none of 654 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: it's easy. It's going to cost you something. So like 655 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: train yourself to know how to do that, all right, So, 656 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: speaking of difficult things, becoming a minimalist while having kids 657 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: is a difficult thing. And so we want to dig 658 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: into some of how you've been able to manage to 659 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: declutter with five kids under the roof when we get 660 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: back from the break. Okay, Jillian, we're back from the break. 661 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: Let's fun now about some of the practical things Joel 662 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: mentioned minimalism. You know, if that's even possible with kids. 663 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: You're living in the same house now and you've got 664 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: five kids, Like, how do you do that? Joel is 665 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: about to ask three, I'm about to have our fourth. 666 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: We're trying not to move to a larger house. That's 667 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: not you know, that's not our plan. How is it 668 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: that you're able to do that? How are you able 669 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,479 Speaker 1: to stay sane? Yeah? So I had one kiddo at home, 670 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: and then within two years we adopted three and I 671 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: had another biological child. So in the span of twenty 672 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: four months, I went from one to five at home, 673 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: and I dubbed that year the Year of Easier not Harder. 674 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: Life was so hard with five little kids, and we 675 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: really had to simplify. So really minimalism came to us 676 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: as like a survival tool because I didn't have the 677 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: bandwidth to just do all of these extra things and 678 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: to constantly be picking up and cleaning, and it felt 679 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: like a whole course of people were saying, when you're 680 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: going to move to a bigger house? Like, when are 681 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: you're going to move to a bigger house? Like? And 682 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: then I announced I was pregnant. They're like, surely, surely, 683 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: now you will move to a bigger house. But for us, 684 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: moving to a bigger house would have meant not hitting 685 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: financial independence, Like we wouldn't have been able to boatstep 686 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: away from our jobs if we would have added another 687 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month of a mortgage payment. So how 688 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: we started with our kids? Because I have very normal 689 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: kids who really love their stuff. I let their rooms 690 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: become chaos, Like I gave him like two weeks to 691 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: just destroy those things. And then I said, okay, kids, listen, 692 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. I think that I've messed this up. 693 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: And I took all of the blame and all of 694 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: the responsibility because I am the parent. They are not. 695 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: Like this situation we were in legitimately was of my making. 696 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: I either bought or allowed all of that stuff to 697 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: come into our house. And I said, so here's what 698 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. I know this is really hard for you. 699 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: I know it's way too much stuff, and I know 700 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: you can't keep this clean. How about you just pick 701 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: up whatever you can pick up an organ eyes and 702 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: then I'm going to take care of the rest of 703 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: it and I'll pack it away, I'll get it cleaned 704 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 1: out of your room. Just whatever you can like keep 705 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: clean and organized. You do that, I'll take care of 706 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: the rest. And it was about three things for each 707 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: of my kids. They could pick up about three things 708 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: before they're like, we're done. And then we took two 709 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: days and we went through all the rooms. We threw 710 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: away all the garbage, We threw away all the broken toys. 711 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 1: We donated about half of it, and then the rest 712 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: of it we put on a toy shelf, set up 713 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: a big shelf that we bought from Crostco. And I said, okay, 714 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: because you can take care of about three things. Once 715 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: those three things are picked up and tied it up, 716 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: you can do a toy spop and just swap them 717 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: from one of the things on the shelf. And we've 718 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: done that for three years now. The great thing is 719 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: when they don't pick the stuff on the shelf for 720 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: six months or a year, it's really easy for me 721 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: to sneak it out of the house in the middle 722 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 1: of the night. And just because obviously they don't want 723 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: to play with it. It's not it's not their favorite. 724 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: It's totally transformed our home, how they play, how they focus, 725 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: like how will they get along with each other? All shifted? 726 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: Has that affected as well the things that you and 727 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: your husband buy and the things that you keep and 728 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: hang onto, you know, shipping your children through this process 729 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: of focusing on what's the most important to you, Like, 730 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: how has that affected you guys? And the things that 731 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: you spend your money on. Yeah, we went through our 732 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: entire house and I had a rule. We had to 733 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: touch every single item in our home, and we got 734 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: rid of probably quite a bit over of our total belongings. 735 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: And my rule, because we were in kind of a 736 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: smaller space, was I didn't have room for any lazy 737 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: items in our house. And my lazy and meant if 738 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: if it was going to earn a spot in our house, 739 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: it had to be hard working. We had to use 740 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: it every day or every week, or at least every month. 741 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: But if it was something that was just going to 742 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: sit on the back of a shelf for a year 743 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: or two without us seeing it, like my house cannot 744 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: be a storage unit for lazy unused things. That thing 745 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: had to go and find a new home where it 746 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: could actually work hard. And we just applied that rule 747 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: to everything. The other rule I applied was if I 748 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: could replace it for five dollars at a thrift store, 749 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: I would let it go, even if it was kind 750 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: of on the line where I wasn't sure if we 751 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: really needed it or if it was really hard working 752 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,240 Speaker 1: or lazy. So we had a cooler that we only 753 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: used occasionally, and I said, you know what, if I 754 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: realized I've made a horrible mistake, I could go to 755 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: a yard stale and I could find another used cooler 756 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: for five dollars, And that allowed me to let go 757 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: of a lot of the well maybe like maybe we 758 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: need it kind of stuff. That's a great point because 759 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: if it is something that can be easily gotten, especially used, 760 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: it should make it a whole lot easier to part with. 761 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: But you're not only willing to part with possessions. I 762 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: think one of the most interesting things that I've seen 763 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: reading your site was that you have something called a 764 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: quit list, and so you're not willing just to quit 765 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: possessions and toys. Tell us how a quit list works 766 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: in kind of creating a minimalist structure in how you 767 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: guys use your time as a family. You know, it's 768 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: easy to say, well, these things aren't adding value to us, 769 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: whether it's how you spend your time or your relationships. 770 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: But there's things in your schedule and you're spending and 771 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: in your home they just aren't providing a lot of value. 772 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: Um And those can be, if you think about it, 773 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: easier to get rid of. But then there's stuff that's good. 774 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: It's not great, it's not amazing, but it's good enough. 775 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: And that's where a lot of people get stuck is saying, 776 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: but this does add some value, and I really encourage 777 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: people to be willing to trade their good for something great. 778 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: So my kids did taekwondo and it was good and 779 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: they liked it and it was fine. It wasn't our 780 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: best though, and it wasn't great. So we let go 781 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: of a lot of things that were just okay to 782 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: make room for the things that really were amazing and 783 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: the things that we really did value. I want us 784 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: through exactly how you figured that out, Like a lot 785 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: of parents would be like man, even even though it's 786 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: not the greatest thing in the world, taekwondo, but I 787 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: swear if I take my kid out of it, they're 788 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: gonna be kicking and screaming the whole way home. So 789 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: how did you How did you actually go through the 790 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: process of developing a quit list and deciding what to 791 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: keep and what to get rid of when it came 792 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: to activities and scheduling things. I think oftentimes parents are 793 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: more resistant to quitting than kids are. You know, we 794 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: want to give our kids the best, and we want 795 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: to give them every opportunity, and we pack their little 796 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: schedules so full that they're exhausted and I'm grumpy. And 797 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: so with taekwondo, when they would be dragging their feet 798 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 1: and like, I don't know, do we have to go today? 799 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,879 Speaker 1: I would just ask the question like, are you really 800 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: having fun? Is this something you really want to do? 801 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: Is there anything else that would be more enjoyable to 802 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: do right now? And oftentimes the answer was yes, and 803 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: it allowed us to let some things go to create 804 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: space for some new things, And then there's things that 805 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: they want to join. One of my kiddos came home 806 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: and he was like, oh my gosh, Mom, I so 807 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: want to become a boy scout. I want to become 808 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: a boy Scout so badly, and I'm thinking, like this 809 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: is okay, So why what about boy Scouts do you 810 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: really want to do? And he's like, well, they go 811 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: in really cool adventures, like every year they do a 812 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,919 Speaker 1: camping trip. I was like, buddy, we did a ten 813 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: week camping trip this year. We went to ten different 814 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: national parks. Like the boy Scouts would be so envious 815 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: of all of the adventures that you've done. And then 816 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: he was like, oh, really they don't do stuff like that. 817 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, they do not go to a ten 818 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,879 Speaker 1: week trip to tend to for national parks like they're 819 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: going to like the Scout instructor's backyard, and that's lame. 820 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: So figuring out why things were important to them and 821 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: seeing if we could meet those needs and those desires 822 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: in a way that worked for our whole family in 823 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: a way that really matched our values and and everyone 824 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: else's needs. So generally on a practical level, like what 825 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: are some ways that that Joel and I can both 826 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: and just our listeners as well, Like how can we 827 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: implement a quip list into our life to focus on 828 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,919 Speaker 1: what we care the most about? Yeah, I think it's 829 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: really great to start with your budget like not even 830 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 1: your budget you're spending, what are you spending, what is 831 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,720 Speaker 1: your schedule? And what's taking your energy. There are some things, 832 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 1: some activities we do that take way more energy than 833 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: other activities. There's some things that fill us up and 834 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: some things that drain us out. So looking at those 835 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: three things and saying, what can you just get rid of? 836 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: What can you get rid of all together? It might 837 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: be stuff in your home, it might be hobby hobbies, relationships, 838 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: items in your budget. It that you're like, yeah, this 839 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: doesn't even like, this doesn't even line up, Like one 840 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: of my values is being healthy and I'm eating fast 841 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: food every day for lunch, Like that's an easy just 842 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 1: stop doing it. But then there's things that you can pause. 843 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: So I think about, you know, if someone wants to 844 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,320 Speaker 1: start a side hustle, if they want to really grow 845 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: their income, even just get a raise in their current 846 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,240 Speaker 1: nine to five job, saying you know, I'm gonna pause 847 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: watching TV for the next three months, for the next 848 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: few months. I'm just gonna hit pause on that. I'm 849 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: gonna hit pause on a couple of these friendships or 850 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: relationships that are really negative and discouraging. I love them, 851 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: but I need to hit pause, and I'm gonna go 852 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,359 Speaker 1: all in for the next couple of months to get 853 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: this thing off the ground, or I'm gonna hit pause 854 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: on eating out while I pay off my credit card debt. 855 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: It's going to come back in my life. I do 856 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: value it. It is important, but just in this tiny 857 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 1: little season, I need to hit pause. And then there's 858 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: things that we say, Man, I value this so much 859 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: and this is so important me, but not right now. 860 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 1: My husband is a car guy. This guy loves cars. 861 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: He loves classic cars. But he said not now, for 862 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: the first I don't know, fifteen years of our marriage. 863 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: He said, I'm going to have a classic car. That 864 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 1: is really important to me, just not right now. I 865 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,319 Speaker 1: would love to build my own house. I would love 866 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,959 Speaker 1: to like build a custom house. And I have said 867 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 1: not now for seventeen years. Because some things the order 868 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,239 Speaker 1: in which you do them is really important. You know. 869 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: Frugality or financial independence isn't about never having any of 870 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: the things you want. Sometimes you just need to have 871 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: the right timing. So for us, we tent camped for 872 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: a decade. For a decade, it was us in a tent. 873 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: We put in a playpen and a little Mattress and 874 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 1: we brought our kids and we tent camped, and then 875 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: a few years ago we bought a pop up camper, 876 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: used a twenty year old pop up camper, and we 877 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: did that for a couple of years, and just this 878 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,440 Speaker 1: last year we bought a camper like a real camper, 879 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: and it's nice and it was expensive. But now, because 880 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: our net worth is about a million dollars, it was 881 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: just a tiny little fraction of our net worth versus 882 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: in our early twenties it would have been all of 883 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: our net worth. So you just say, you know, not 884 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: right now, like we are going to have that that 885 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: doesn't matter to us, but you push it off into 886 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: the future when the timing is better. On a small scale. 887 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: For me, Matt that was and Jillian that was saying 888 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,439 Speaker 1: no to nerdy board game nights with my buddies while 889 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: we were trying to get this podcast off the ground. 890 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: And I love nerdy board games, I love hanging out 891 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: with my friends, but it was, you know, I really 892 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,359 Speaker 1: really really want to put a lot of effort into 893 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:39,959 Speaker 1: this and I want to see how it goes, and 894 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: it's been completely worth it, but I know that that's 895 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: something that I'm going to bring back at some point, 896 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,359 Speaker 1: like life will chill out a little bit and I'll 897 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: get back to nerdy board games with my buds. Another 898 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: thing on a longer term scale is I'd like to 899 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 1: drive a Tesla one of these days, you know, but 900 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,280 Speaker 1: that's going to be something that's probably I used Tesla 901 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: five years down the road, when similarly, it is like 902 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: a blip right now, it would be a meaningful expense 903 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,840 Speaker 1: in my life, and hopefully with the way I'm saving 904 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: and investing and thinking about money, in five to ten years, 905 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: it's like a blip. And that's the kind of thing 906 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: that I think if you get a handle on your 907 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,399 Speaker 1: money and if you start to think about it well 908 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: and prioritize saving and investing over over buying those things. 909 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 1: Now what you just said about the way you order things, 910 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: it is crucial. It is crucial if you can prioritize 911 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: that saving and investing, now you can have those things. 912 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: It's not denying yourself, but it is saying not yet. 913 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: And at the same time mean so going back to 914 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: your electric car example, you still have an electric car, right, 915 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: That's that's not like you're you don't have an electric car, 916 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: And so there's small ways ll like that you are 917 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 1: even talking about and Jillian like like you're talking about 918 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,240 Speaker 1: like you you guys have up graded from tent camping 919 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,879 Speaker 1: to pop up camp attempting to not like a legit RV, 920 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 1: and you never said no to the things that you 921 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: truly valued and the things that mattered, you know, ten 922 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 1: years ago when it was just the two of you 923 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: guys at camping, right or when they was too of 924 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: you guys in the trailer, like, you can still take 925 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 1: part in the joys and things that you've identified as important, 926 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: just not to the full fancy extent that you might someday, 927 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: but you're still doing those things, and you know, taking 928 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: part in life now and identifying those things I think 929 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,759 Speaker 1: is so important because if you didn't know that that's 930 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: what you truly valued, well, you would be off spending money, 931 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,719 Speaker 1: getting your spending out of order. Yeah, and then you 932 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: would nearly be in the position that you are now 933 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to your personal finances. All right, Jillian, 934 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on the show today. 935 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: This has been just an amazing conversation. People can can 936 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: read your stuff at Montana Money Adventure dot com and 937 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: you've got an easy kind of ten day learning course 938 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: that people can go through if they're interested in this 939 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So would would you fill our listeners 940 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,320 Speaker 1: in on that? Yeah, it's a ten day email course. 941 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,240 Speaker 1: I have like short little five to ten minute videos 942 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: a worksheet each day. It's free, yea. But it's like 943 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: the perfect way to start figuring out what do I 944 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 1: they want out of my life? What is really important? 945 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 1: Like exercises like the quit list? How do I know 946 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: what I can hit pause on to go all in 947 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: on these other things? And it just it kind of 948 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,200 Speaker 1: walks you through that and starts starts getting in the 949 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 1: ball rolling on living your very best life. Well, we 950 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,239 Speaker 1: love free. That's just awesome. And aside from being free, 951 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: that sounds great. Yeah, and I've taken a look through it. 952 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: It's awesome. I haven't watched the videos yet and I'm 953 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: really excited to go through it though. Seriously, this has 954 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,760 Speaker 1: been a great conversation. We appreciate your insight, We appreciate 955 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 1: your time. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank 956 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: you guys so much for having me. This was awesome, man, 957 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 1: that was such a great conversation. I love Jillian's attitude, 958 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: I love her philosophy and It's just impressive what she's 959 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 1: been able to achieve, especially on such a low income. 960 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 1: And I think probably my favorite line, the thing that's 961 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,640 Speaker 1: stuck out to me in this conversation with Jillian was 962 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: when she said that she could either look rich or 963 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: be rich. That is the economy that so many of 964 00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,760 Speaker 1: us are faced with. It's whether we want to appear 965 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,759 Speaker 1: as certain way to other folks or whether we can 966 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: actually build wealth for ourselves and change our future. Yeah. Man, 967 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: that is good stuff. Uh, And now let's quickly take 968 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,919 Speaker 1: it back to the beer. On this episode, we had 969 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: official which is the new Hazy I p a by 970 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,480 Speaker 1: Bell's Brewery. What were your thoughts. Yeah, honestly, it wasn't 971 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,799 Speaker 1: as hazy as I thought it would be. It's still 972 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: kind of a little bit clear. More clouds please, Yeah, 973 00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,360 Speaker 1: but hazy is not a flavor, so it's okay. So 974 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,800 Speaker 1: a descriptive board. Yeah, I thought it was really solid, 975 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: and honestly, a beer that solid, readily available in most 976 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,279 Speaker 1: people's shelves is great. So I thought it was kind 977 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: of a solid go to. And the interesting thing about 978 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,279 Speaker 1: Bell's Brewery, Matt, they opened up the year after I 979 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 1: was born, So these guys have been making good beers 980 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,320 Speaker 1: for a really long time, and this is just another 981 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,800 Speaker 1: really good addition to their lineup. I think, yeah, Bells, 982 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,720 Speaker 1: they've been around for a while. They make some solid beers. 983 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 1: In particular, that makes some solid I p A S 984 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,719 Speaker 1: and pale ales. I think about Bell's Too Hearted, which 985 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,239 Speaker 1: is kind of a classic. But yeah, man, this beer 986 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: was solid. I really enjoyed it. This is the kind 987 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 1: of beer I want to keep in my friend to 988 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,359 Speaker 1: just be able to have when some friends come over 989 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: without getting to beer nerdy on it. You know what 990 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,279 Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Yeah, it's an easily accessible one for 991 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,920 Speaker 1: beer nerds and non beer nerds alike. Exactly, exactly, sweet buddy, 992 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,279 Speaker 1: Time for us to get out of here. If you 993 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: want show notes for this episode, go to our website 994 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 1: how to money dot com. We will have links to 995 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: Jillian's blog also to that email course that we mentioned 996 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: right there on the site. And if you found this 997 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,279 Speaker 1: episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Leave 998 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 1: us a review over at Apple Podcasts and Joel, that's 999 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,319 Speaker 1: that's gonna be it, man. Until next time, Best Friends Out, 1000 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 1: Best Friends Out.