WEBVTT - Mickey 17 and Writer Karen Han 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:05.040 Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for Bong June Ho's latest film, 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:24.200 Mickey seventeen in theaters now. Hello, my name is Jason 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.960 Cepsion and I'm Rosie Night and welcome back to x 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.160 Ray Vision of the podcast where we dive deep bit 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.080 to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Coming 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.199 to you for my Art podcast, where we're bringing you 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.000 three huge episodes a week plus news. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.000 In today's episode, we are talking Bong June hose Mickey seventeen, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.880 which was released over the weekend. You're gonna get our reactions, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.440 a little recap, and then after our review, Karen Hahn, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.479 the author of Boon June Hoe, Dissident Cinema and General 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.520 Film Legend, joins us to discuss the director's career and 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.560 how his latest project shapes his legacy. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:06.640 But first let's talk about Mickey seventeen. Okay, Mickey seventeen. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.800 Here's the quick recap, and then we can give our reactions. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:17.919 Mickey barnes a naive kind of go along to get along. 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.119 Poor kid from Earth and his much more confident, much 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.319 more aggressive friend Berto fall under the thumb of the 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.440 world's scariest loan shark. In order to escape him, they 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:35.240 decide to sign up with a fateful mission to another world. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:41.560 This colony mission essentially is being run by former Congressman 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.360 Ken Marshall, and they are going to the faraway ice 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.400 world of Nifflheim. Mickey joins up as an expendable, which 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:54.760 is basically a member of the crew whose job it 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.600 is to die all the time by being given the 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:03.080 most hazardous jobs, like being exposed to radiation or breathing 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.080 the air on the planet before anybody else to discover 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.160 there's any pathogens in it, and when he inevitably dies, 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.480 his consciousness is then loaded into a fresh three D 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.880 printed body and he's ready to go and die again. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.280 When we meet him, he's on the seventeenth version of 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.720 himself and he's fallen into a gravass left by his 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.600 supposed friend Burto it turns out is a huge dick 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.440 and like he's used to dying, so it's not gonna 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.040 be a big deal. Right to Mickey, it's a big 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.120 deal every single time. But the huge hairy pillbug like 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.519 inhabitants of the planet that seem ready to eat him 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:46.200 instead rescue him, depositing him on the surface of the planet, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.799 and when Mickey returns to the ship, he discovers they've 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.480 already printed out at eighteen. Now, this is a big 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:56.480 no no and is strictly outlawed on Earth. In fact, 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.080 all three D human printing is outlawed on Earth, but 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.040 it's okay in Spain under the laws of the mission. 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.320 In the event of multiple what they call multiples, which 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.600 is the thing that's happening now there are two versions 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.120 of the same person that are running around. All versions 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.840 are to be destroyed, including the memory uploads, so just 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:19.600 erase everything. Eighteen is the much more prone to violence, 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.920 much more aggressive, kind of like the angry side of Mickey. Meanwhile, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.680 Ken Marshall and his wife Gwen are absolutely deranged ideologues 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:34.520 whose plan is to create a pure white colony basically anytime, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.520 and they're not shying away. They're not shying away from it, 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.480 and they don't really lay out the details, but it 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:46.760 does certainly seem like this will involve a harem around 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.840 mister Marshall. Marshall has a baby pillbug on the ship 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.280 that he's running experiments on. Gwen wants to make sauces 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.880 out of their tails, and true, that's the actual detail 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:04.200 in the movie, and meanwhile on the planet, the rest 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.360 of the herd are extremely distressed at the capture of 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.400 one of their own, and they begin to surround the ship. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:15.000 Marshall puts Mickey seventeen and eighteen and explosive vests and 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:19.400 tells them go out there amongst the herds and see 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.520 how many tales you can cut off for Gwen's sauces, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:27.479 and the winner will not be blown up. Instead, seventeen 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:29.720 and eighteen talk to the herd mother, who tells them 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.440 that unless they return the baby and kill one of 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:37.440 their own human crew members as recompense for one of 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.560 the dead pill babies that the humans killed, she and 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.400 the herd will blow up everyone's brains and eyes by 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.560 screaming really, really loud, which is a thing that they 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.440 seem like they are capable of doing. In the end, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.160 the baby is saved, Marshall is blown up by eighteen 0:04:55.240 --> 0:05:02.599 with his explosive suicide vest. Essentially, Gwen kills herself out 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.960 of sorrow and despair at losing control of the mission. 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.400 Three D printing on the colony is outlawed, and the 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:16.040 colony lives in peace with the bugs. Yes end of movie. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.080 End of movie. I will say I love this movie. 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.560 I thought it was so fun. I thought it was 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.120 classic weird bong, which I love. If you like Okja, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.280 you like snow Piercer, this is definitely in that vein. 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.200 It still has a lot of the political kind of 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.200 residence of a lot of his movies. The commentary here 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.360 is directly on the nose, and there are some moments 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.720 that me and Jason were like, I mean, did they 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.560 go back and add this in because it's so specific 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.839 to what has occurred. I loved Rob's I love Robert 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:48.880 Pattinson's performance in this movie. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.440 This is a really it's two performances, yeah, one, and 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.120 he's just wonderful. I was saying to you, Rosie at 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.920 the screening, like, at some point, need to do maybe 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.320 an episode just on his choices, because this guy has 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:09.479 made since Twilight, has clearly decided to issue like popular 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.160 stardom and just do like the weirdest, most interesting roles 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:13.719 he can come up. But then this is one of them. 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.040 This is definitely one of them. I thought the way 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:20.440 that Mickey seventeen and eighteen are differentiated and the way 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.599 that Rob plays eighteen was so different from anything that 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.719 we've seen. I also am a big Naomi Akistan, so 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.440 I have been ever since Lady Macbeth. I think she's 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.480 fantastic and I thought she killed it here as Nasha, 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.600 who's kind of the girlfriend slash real hero. She's very 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.640 much in that kind of Ripley esque vein. She's an 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.240 elite agent who falls in love with Mickey, and there's 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.680 a lot of really hilarious kind of I guess, like 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.799 crude humor about their relationship, and there's a great moment. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.280 I love the moment where she realizes there are two 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.200 Mickeys and she's like, hey, can we have a three 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.400 for everybody? Which I thought was so fun. Yeah, I 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.280 just I really enjoyed this movie, and I'm I'm really 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.680 excited for other people to see it because I do 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.640 think it's very different from Parasite, but there is so 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.080 much to love and this is like any It's it's 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.920 not in the same vein, but you know what, Parasite 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.120 has a real dark humor to it, and I think 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.640 that is still here. Also, sometimes when times are rough, 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.360 you don't need something subtle. You need something that's like 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.760 hitting people over the head with a shovel. And also 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:29.320 gotta shout out here Tony Collette is so funny as 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.400 the wife of the even funnier Mark Ruffalo who plays 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.840 Ken Marshall. And I also love how much of Bong's 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.840 veganism is like such a massive part of this movie. 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.240 Same with Okja, but like in this movie, like I 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.120 was really getting grossed out and kind of interested in 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.560 the obsession that the Tony Collett character has with her sources. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.640 It's really it's like you've got to get the right 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.120 amount of ballarred in this source. And I was thinking, like, oh, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.880 this is probably how Bong just sees like every single 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.360 me who talks about this stuff. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.560 There's so many there's so many classic Bonk themes that 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.800 you know, there's no Bonng movie that does not deal 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.400 in some way with like the rapaciousness of capitalism, claw 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:18.840 and control class hierarchical systems in general. This one certainly 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:24.560 doesn't colonial things, certainly that those are dealt with here, 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.120 but in a much more like et like. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.840 Way with definitely gone weird Amblin vibes. Even though yeah, grotesque. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.679 I will say that to your point of this being 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.680 like very on the nose, to those who will see 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:44.880 this movie, you will you will recognize the Ken Marshall ruined, 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:51.160 you know, but somehow still successful businessmen, dirty politician, no 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.960 longer in politics, but still you know, like lusting for 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.840 power who every night has his own television show that 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.880 hears live on the ship. You will recognize this person. 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.600 I will say that, like, this is the most part 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.439 of this movie, and part of the message of this 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.319 movie is very much like, hey, just kill that guy 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.560 killing and then live in peace with the with the 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.400 with the bugs and living together. So there's this is 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:28.040 a very uh, this is a very cathartic and good 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:33.160 feeling film and has none of the kind of ending. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.079 It's almost as if Bong was like, hey, guys, you're 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.920 gonna need a happy ending after right now, and so 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:44.080 the movie it gives you an unambiguous happy Yeah. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:48.080 They begin in a dystopian situation where you know, you're 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.319 talking about the exploitation of labor workers, you're talking about 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.080 the idea of essentially being able to print out people 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.000 specifically to do hard jobs and die. That stuff will 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:01.360 feels really resonant. But then also because of who Bong is, 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:06.400 he manages to make it funny and relatable. And then yeah, 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:08.480 at the end, they end up in a more utopian 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.679 situation where Nasha played by Naomi Aki, it kind of 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.400 retakes control of the council that makes the decisions about colonies. 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.160 She blows up, She gets Mickey to blow up the 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:24.240 three D printer so that they stop printing humans. And yeah, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.760 and Bong says, Hey, maybe if that person died, you'd 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.880 just be able to do this. There would be opportunity 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.120 for a black woman to run this beautiful space expedition 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.520 if it wasn't run by like an idiot who doesn't 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.600 know what he's doing. But Mark Ruffalo, you killed it 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.520 in this role, my friend. It's like it's just enough 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.839 scenery chewing and not an impression of who it is 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.120 obviously meant to be about, and is instead kind of 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:54.360 this It's almost like a mixture of different kinds of 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.760 terrible political figures. And I honestly just loved it. And 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.719 I'm so so excited for our discode to see I'm 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.280 excited for the super producers to see it. Adam so 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.880 excited to talk to Karen about it. Off to this break. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:25.480 Yeah, we're delighted now to be joined by Karen Hann, 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.320 a screenwriter and cultural critic living in Los Angeles, who 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:35.520 wrote the book on Bong Juno titled Dissident Cinema. Karen, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.839 thank you so much for joining us. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:38.800 Thank you so much for having me on. I'm so 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:40.320 excited to be here to chat with you. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.360 Well, first, let's some your thoughts on Mickey seventeen. 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.959 I really loved it. I don't think that's going to 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.200 be a surprise to anybody who knows me, Like, obviously 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:55.160 I'm very in the bag for this movie, but I 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.280 thought it was just it's such a big swing, which 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:59.720 is I think what I love from him, Like he's 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.800 always doing something that you're not necessarily expecting from any 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.400 given movie, and especially in this case, Like I think 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.040 the immediate categorization you'd put this in is like America 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.680 and sci fi blockbuster. But at the same time, there's 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.160 so many things to me that really stand out as 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.960 not necessarily blockbuster e or like even a little Korean 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.199 like in the way that the movie has been made, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:23.960 and so it's a really unique piece for me, and 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.800 also like a showcase for some really really incredible performances. 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:35.280 Yeah, unbelievable performances from Was there anything that really surprised 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.160 you when it came to those performances because it's an 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.560 incredible cast and director Bong is known for getting really 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:47.280 brilliant performances from actors from around the globe. But the 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.600 you was there one that stood out or felt a 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:51.440 little bit different? 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.960 I would say, I think there are kind of two 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:56.840 big performance aspects that stood out to me. I know 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:57.319 you said, what. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.440 Please go great, I didn't want to put you on 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.000 the spot. Tell us as many as you like. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:06.040 The first one being obviously you have these dual performances, 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.719 or at least dual performances from Robert Pattinson. And it's 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.360 not just the fact of him being such a brilliant 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.960 actor that he can make these two Mickeys so distinct 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:16.920 even when he's like on the same screen, but also 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.959 the way that that character is written, where like the scenes, 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.640 the multiple scenes where Micky eighteene's like this situation is 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.760 so nuts, what did you do? And Mickey Seventeen's like, 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.520 I didn't do anything, and Micky eighteen getting mad at him, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.440 Like I think so many of us have kind of 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.439 had that kind of response to our within ourselves, which 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.760 is one of the beautiful things about The Mickeys, which 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.040 is it ultimately is one person it's just these different 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.880 facets that are being brought out by the different copies, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.360 and like everyone has had that moment where you're out 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.400 and something sort of upsetting happens to you, but you 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.559 don't do anything in the moment, and then later you're like, oh, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:49.959 like I should have said this or I should have 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.360 done that. But then another standout for me in particular 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.240 was Mark Ruffalo's performance as Kenneth Marshall. I think in 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.079 talking to other friends who've seen this movie, the comparison, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.560 the immediate comparison point is like what Jake John Hall 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.040 was doing in Oakja, which was I think very polarizing. 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.600 Some people really liked it, some people really did not 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.920 like it. I am pro Jake Jolen Hall and Oacha, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.360 and I'm also very pro Mark Ruffle in this, and 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.040 I think in particular in this in orc Ja, Jake 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:19.960 Joleen Hall has given the opportunity to go through kind 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.600 of a bigger gamut of emotions than you necessarily think 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.560 when you see that character in public, and the same 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.760 kind of goes for me for Kenneth Marshall, like not 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.640 to I guess we'll get into spoilers eventually, but at 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.520 the end of the film when he has that really 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.400 short bargaining moment with Mickey eighteen and he sort of 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.000 says like, we're both scared. Like that's such a small 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.120 and really intense moment that you don't think will come 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.200 to it from a character that's so overboard. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.320 Now, having seen Mickey, I wonder again, having written the 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:56.400 book on Vong, what do you see in it that 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.320 ties it to the rest of Bong's work? How do 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.680 you classify his work? What do you see as the 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.480 themes that this director is fascinated with. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.960 I think the really easy one to call out is 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.800 like themes of socioeconomic disparity and like kind of class warfare, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:17.880 which is very, very prevalent in Mickey, where like he 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.360 goes on this expedition because he has no other option. 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.000 He'll literally be killed if he stays on earth because 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.120 he can't pay back this loan. And then the life 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.640 that he ends up living is one that everyone kind 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:31.840 of looks down on and thinks is horrible because it 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.840 is he has to die over and over again, but 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.680 that's the only option that's available to him within the 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.560 system that he's in. And obviously I think like looking 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.120 at Parasite which probably is his most seen film at 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.840 this point, Like, that's all that movie's about. It's about 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.600 the way that we move within the class structures that 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.000 have been set for us and how we deal with it. 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.760 And it fits into that pretty neatly, as well as 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:01.120 fitting into his pensiant for really bouncing around in tone 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.000 and genre, like there's not really one word that you 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.080 can use to some up Mickey seventeen or any of 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.320 his movies really, And then I think the other big 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.640 thing is it sort of if anything, it's it's almost 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.840 closest to snow Piercer in a way, like not just 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.440 because that's another English language film of his, but because 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.440 that's I think the only other one of his films 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.720 where the end result is, oh, we had to completely 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.000 dismantle the structure that we were living in in order 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.120 to make it better or more livable, whereas the others, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.120 I think because they are taking place in a more 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.560 quote unquote like realistic setting, like Parasite is in our 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:40.120 contemporary society, arguably in which case, like those characters cannot 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.880 meaningfully affect change in the way that they might want to. 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.400 What was your entry point into his films? What was 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.760 your first memory of watching a film by direct Bong 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.080 and being like, Oh, this is someone whose work is 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:55.160 really speaking to me. 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.600 The first thing that I saw was The Host on 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.760 home video, I think like maybe a year or so, 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.200 like after it had come out in theaters, and I 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.359 remember being so shocked and kind of so traumatized in 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:14.120 the food that I saw it, because It's so unlike 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.320 any other monster movie that I'd seen, and also especially 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.040 like the death of the Grandpa in that movie was 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:20.480 so so striking to me in the way that it 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.639 was executed and shot. What about both of you? 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.920 Who? Oh god? I think I think for me, I 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.240 think I did see The Host first, and I really 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.639 liked it. But I remember the first time I watched 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.960 Memories of Murder Yeah, and just feeling like, oh wow, 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.080 like that's the kind of movie that made me feel 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:44.000 like electrified, you know. I immediately wanted to watch more 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.480 of his movies and just discover Also when I was 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:52.280 growing up, Mother was like such a cult kind of 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.720 everyone was like you've got to watch this, yeah, like 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.560 you won't believe this movie. And then from then on, 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.400 I mean, hilariously, I think now it's hard to pick 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.840 a favorite, but I do just love Oakja so much. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:10.480 For me, I think, like Mickey seventeen feels so akin 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.159 to Oakture that it's been really really great for me 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.240 for my friends to be texting me going, oh wow, 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.399 this is like so different from Parasite. What should I 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.040 watch next? And I'm like, go watch Joke Snoopy obviously, 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.000 but yeah, I think for me it was that kind 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.560 of double bill of the Host and then Memories of 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.320 Murder and being like, oh wow, this is so eclectic, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.960 Like I don't know any other director who the first 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.200 two movies I've watched are so different. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.840 Yeah, it was The Host for me. It was the 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.399 first one that I saw, although I'll admit that I 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.960 was not. I thought it was a great movie and 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:49.119 very fun. I didn't think that did he had the 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:54.560 depth that would come to the four through. I mean really, 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.359 oak Joe was where I was like, oh, there's something 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.960 more here. Snow Puercer I enjoyed also, and then Parasite. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.400 I saw his films in those in that order. Yeah, 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:10.879 Parasite was really the movie where I understood that he 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.640 had some very trenched things to say about the world 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:17.640 that we live in, and he was saying them through 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:24.760 these sometimes seemingly unrelated genre films in a really interesting way. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.760 So yeah, the host the host because it was like, hey, hey, 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.720 monster movie, let's go see this fun monster movie. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.639 Yeah. That was also, I guess, like the first movie 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.240 that kind of made it overseas. 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.520 Yes, Yeah, I think that that's a really great kind 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.199 of unifying thing between the three of us because it 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.920 says a lot about Bong's work where it's like they're like, oh, 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.280 it's a monster movie. You can release this around the world, 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.760 but then people stop rewatching it and they're like, wait 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.880 a minute, this is actually like incredibly deep. But yeah, 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.240 themes of family and how hard it is to be 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.760 a parent and how hard it is to be a kid, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:08.720 and kind of the ways that people react to disasters. 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.280 And I think it's kind of funny because I remember 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.160 when Parasite was kind of before we'd seen it and 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.199 the general public had seen it, and the kind of 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.520 buzz coming from people who weren't you. Karen, who understood 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.640 his work was like, Oh, it's a horror movie. Bong 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.080 Juno's doing a horror movie. And I was like, oh, 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.399 that will be interesting. And then I was at the 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.760 Beyond Fest screening which turned out to be like the 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.280 kind of North American premiere ish that you were at, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.760 and I remember all me and my friends watched it 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:41.399 and we were like, oh, it's not a horror movie. 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:47.280 Like so it's kind of those interesting people don't really 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.240 they still don't know where to place them, And I 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.280 think that's really interesting. What was it like for you 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.400 as somebody who had seen Parasite and then I remember, 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.840 you know, Bonghive really rising up after Can and everything. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.120 What was it like to be a part of the 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.840 journey that that movie took kind of globally. 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.480 It was really shocking and even today my instinct, I 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.480 feel like, is to downplay it where I'm like, there's 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.680 just no way that. Like, of course, social media worth 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.560 of word of mouth is a big part of getting 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.040 to get people to go see movies to a certain degree, 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.399 but ultimately it's still not I don't know, it's just 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:26.720 as much a part of the apparatus as like marketing 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.840 or things like that, which I think, like the Neon 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.280 team did such a good job with Parasite and also 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.679 knowing that that was a movie that they could and 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:40.960 should push right, which I think is it's not easy. 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.480 Like again, when I was watching the Oscars and Parasite 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.680 won Best Director and Best Form Film, I was like, Oh, 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:48.639 it's not going to get Best Picture because that's just 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.399 so not the traditional narrative for a film that's not 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.120 in English for a foreign language feature, and which made 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.040 it seem just like all the more like a miracle 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:58.439 when it did win Best Picture. 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:05.080 Researching your book, what did you learn about Bong's process 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.480 to help us understand how he puts these, how he 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.960 decides what project to do next, how he spins up production, 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:15.240 the writing process, etc. 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.640 I guess, obviously not to speak for him, but in 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.080 the different stories that I found about where various films 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.600 came from, it seems kind of like everything comes from 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.800 a very pure storytelling level, like there has to be 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:33.560 some really brilliant seed to germinate these amazing ideas. Like Mother, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.200 for instance, that came about because of Kim Hitcha, the 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.399 main actress in it. He knew of her because everyone 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.000 in Seth, Korea did at that time. Everyone knew of 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:44.639 her and had this image of her as like the 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.800 ideal Korean mother, like this very warm maternal image, and 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.960 he was like, well, what can I do exactly? And 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.600 in that case, it's like that movie was for her. 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.840 If she'd said no, He said that he wouldn't have 0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:58.720 gone forward with the film. That was kind of it. 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:03.080 Whereas stuff like Barking Dogs and Every Bite his first film, 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:04.840 he was just like, this was just born out of 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:06.520 like stuff that kind of had happened around me, my 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.560 personal experiences, as much as Parasite was because he's talked 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.280 about being a tutor for a rich family and how 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.720