1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for Bong June Ho's latest film, 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Mickey seventeen in theaters now. Hello, my name is Jason 3 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: Cepsion and I'm Rosie Night and welcome back to x 4 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Ray Vision of the podcast where we dive deep bit 5 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Coming 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: to you for my Art podcast, where we're bringing you 7 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: three huge episodes a week plus news. 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: In today's episode, we are talking Bong June hose Mickey seventeen, 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 2: which was released over the weekend. You're gonna get our reactions, 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: a little recap, and then after our review, Karen Hahn, 11 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: the author of Boon June Hoe, Dissident Cinema and General 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: Film Legend, joins us to discuss the director's career and 13 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: how his latest project shapes his legacy. 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: But first let's talk about Mickey seventeen. Okay, Mickey seventeen. 15 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Here's the quick recap, and then we can give our reactions. 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 1: Mickey barnes a naive kind of go along to get along. 17 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: Poor kid from Earth and his much more confident, much 18 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: more aggressive friend Berto fall under the thumb of the 19 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: world's scariest loan shark. In order to escape him, they 20 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: decide to sign up with a fateful mission to another world. 21 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: This colony mission essentially is being run by former Congressman 22 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: Ken Marshall, and they are going to the faraway ice 23 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: world of Nifflheim. Mickey joins up as an expendable, which 24 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: is basically a member of the crew whose job it 25 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: is to die all the time by being given the 26 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: most hazardous jobs, like being exposed to radiation or breathing 27 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: the air on the planet before anybody else to discover 28 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: there's any pathogens in it, and when he inevitably dies, 29 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: his consciousness is then loaded into a fresh three D 30 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: printed body and he's ready to go and die again. 31 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: When we meet him, he's on the seventeenth version of 32 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: himself and he's fallen into a gravass left by his 33 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: supposed friend Burto it turns out is a huge dick 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: and like he's used to dying, so it's not gonna 35 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: be a big deal. Right to Mickey, it's a big 36 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: deal every single time. But the huge hairy pillbug like 37 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: inhabitants of the planet that seem ready to eat him 38 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: instead rescue him, depositing him on the surface of the planet, 39 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: and when Mickey returns to the ship, he discovers they've 40 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: already printed out at eighteen. Now, this is a big 41 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: no no and is strictly outlawed on Earth. In fact, 42 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: all three D human printing is outlawed on Earth, but 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: it's okay in Spain under the laws of the mission. 44 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: In the event of multiple what they call multiples, which 45 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: is the thing that's happening now there are two versions 46 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: of the same person that are running around. All versions 47 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: are to be destroyed, including the memory uploads, so just 48 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: erase everything. Eighteen is the much more prone to violence, 49 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: much more aggressive, kind of like the angry side of Mickey. Meanwhile, 50 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: Ken Marshall and his wife Gwen are absolutely deranged ideologues 51 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: whose plan is to create a pure white colony basically anytime, 52 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: and they're not shying away. They're not shying away from it, 53 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: and they don't really lay out the details, but it 54 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: does certainly seem like this will involve a harem around 55 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: mister Marshall. Marshall has a baby pillbug on the ship 56 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: that he's running experiments on. Gwen wants to make sauces 57 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: out of their tails, and true, that's the actual detail 58 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: in the movie, and meanwhile on the planet, the rest 59 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: of the herd are extremely distressed at the capture of 60 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: one of their own, and they begin to surround the ship. 61 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: Marshall puts Mickey seventeen and eighteen and explosive vests and 62 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: tells them go out there amongst the herds and see 63 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: how many tales you can cut off for Gwen's sauces, 64 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: and the winner will not be blown up. Instead, seventeen 65 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: and eighteen talk to the herd mother, who tells them 66 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: that unless they return the baby and kill one of 67 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: their own human crew members as recompense for one of 68 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: the dead pill babies that the humans killed, she and 69 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: the herd will blow up everyone's brains and eyes by 70 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: screaming really, really loud, which is a thing that they 71 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: seem like they are capable of doing. In the end, 72 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: the baby is saved, Marshall is blown up by eighteen 73 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: with his explosive suicide vest. Essentially, Gwen kills herself out 74 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: of sorrow and despair at losing control of the mission. 75 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: Three D printing on the colony is outlawed, and the 76 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: colony lives in peace with the bugs. Yes end of movie. 77 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: End of movie. I will say I love this movie. 78 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: I thought it was so fun. I thought it was 79 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: classic weird bong, which I love. If you like Okja, 80 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: you like snow Piercer, this is definitely in that vein. 81 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: It still has a lot of the political kind of 82 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: residence of a lot of his movies. The commentary here 83 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: is directly on the nose, and there are some moments 84 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 2: that me and Jason were like, I mean, did they 85 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: go back and add this in because it's so specific 86 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 2: to what has occurred. I loved Rob's I love Robert 87 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: Pattinson's performance in this movie. 88 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: This is a really it's two performances, yeah, one, and 89 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: he's just wonderful. I was saying to you, Rosie at 90 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: the screening, like, at some point, need to do maybe 91 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: an episode just on his choices, because this guy has 92 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: made since Twilight, has clearly decided to issue like popular 93 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: stardom and just do like the weirdest, most interesting roles 94 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: he can come up. But then this is one of them. 95 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: This is definitely one of them. I thought the way 96 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 2: that Mickey seventeen and eighteen are differentiated and the way 97 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: that Rob plays eighteen was so different from anything that 98 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: we've seen. I also am a big Naomi Akistan, so 99 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: I have been ever since Lady Macbeth. I think she's 100 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: fantastic and I thought she killed it here as Nasha, 101 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 2: who's kind of the girlfriend slash real hero. She's very 102 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: much in that kind of Ripley esque vein. She's an 103 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: elite agent who falls in love with Mickey, and there's 104 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: a lot of really hilarious kind of I guess, like 105 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 2: crude humor about their relationship, and there's a great moment. 106 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: I love the moment where she realizes there are two 107 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: Mickeys and she's like, hey, can we have a three 108 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: for everybody? Which I thought was so fun. Yeah, I 109 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 2: just I really enjoyed this movie, and I'm I'm really 110 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: excited for other people to see it because I do 111 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: think it's very different from Parasite, but there is so 112 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: much to love and this is like any It's it's 113 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: not in the same vein, but you know what, Parasite 114 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: has a real dark humor to it, and I think 115 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: that is still here. Also, sometimes when times are rough, 116 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: you don't need something subtle. You need something that's like 117 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: hitting people over the head with a shovel. And also 118 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: gotta shout out here Tony Collette is so funny as 119 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: the wife of the even funnier Mark Ruffalo who plays 120 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: Ken Marshall. And I also love how much of Bong's 121 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: veganism is like such a massive part of this movie. 122 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: Same with Okja, but like in this movie, like I 123 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: was really getting grossed out and kind of interested in 124 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: the obsession that the Tony Collett character has with her sources. 125 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: It's really it's like you've got to get the right 126 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: amount of ballarred in this source. And I was thinking, like, oh, 127 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: this is probably how Bong just sees like every single 128 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: me who talks about this stuff. 129 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: There's so many there's so many classic Bonk themes that 130 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, there's no Bonng movie that does not deal 131 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: in some way with like the rapaciousness of capitalism, claw 132 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: and control class hierarchical systems in general. This one certainly 133 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: doesn't colonial things, certainly that those are dealt with here, 134 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: but in a much more like et like. 135 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: Way with definitely gone weird Amblin vibes. Even though yeah, grotesque. 136 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: I will say that to your point of this being 137 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: like very on the nose, to those who will see 138 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: this movie, you will you will recognize the Ken Marshall ruined, 139 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, but somehow still successful businessmen, dirty politician, no 140 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: longer in politics, but still you know, like lusting for 141 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: power who every night has his own television show that 142 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: hears live on the ship. You will recognize this person. 143 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: I will say that, like, this is the most part 144 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: of this movie, and part of the message of this 145 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: movie is very much like, hey, just kill that guy 146 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: killing and then live in peace with the with the 147 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: with the bugs and living together. So there's this is 148 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: a very uh, this is a very cathartic and good 149 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: feeling film and has none of the kind of ending. 150 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: It's almost as if Bong was like, hey, guys, you're 151 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: gonna need a happy ending after right now, and so 152 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: the movie it gives you an unambiguous happy Yeah. 153 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: They begin in a dystopian situation where you know, you're 154 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 2: talking about the exploitation of labor workers, you're talking about 155 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: the idea of essentially being able to print out people 156 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: specifically to do hard jobs and die. That stuff will 157 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: feels really resonant. But then also because of who Bong is, 158 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: he manages to make it funny and relatable. And then yeah, 159 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: at the end, they end up in a more utopian 160 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: situation where Nasha played by Naomi Aki, it kind of 161 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: retakes control of the council that makes the decisions about colonies. 162 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: She blows up, She gets Mickey to blow up the 163 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: three D printer so that they stop printing humans. And yeah, 164 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: and Bong says, Hey, maybe if that person died, you'd 165 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: just be able to do this. There would be opportunity 166 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: for a black woman to run this beautiful space expedition 167 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: if it wasn't run by like an idiot who doesn't 168 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: know what he's doing. But Mark Ruffalo, you killed it 169 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: in this role, my friend. It's like it's just enough 170 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 2: scenery chewing and not an impression of who it is 171 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: obviously meant to be about, and is instead kind of 172 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: this It's almost like a mixture of different kinds of 173 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: terrible political figures. And I honestly just loved it. And 174 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 2: I'm so so excited for our discode to see I'm 175 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: excited for the super producers to see it. Adam so 176 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: excited to talk to Karen about it. Off to this break. 177 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're delighted now to be joined by Karen Hann, 178 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: a screenwriter and cultural critic living in Los Angeles, who 179 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: wrote the book on Bong Juno titled Dissident Cinema. Karen, 180 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. 181 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on. I'm so 182 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 3: excited to be here to chat with you. 183 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: Well, first, let's some your thoughts on Mickey seventeen. 184 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 3: I really loved it. I don't think that's going to 185 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: be a surprise to anybody who knows me, Like, obviously 186 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 3: I'm very in the bag for this movie, but I 187 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 3: thought it was just it's such a big swing, which 188 00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 3: is I think what I love from him, Like he's 189 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: always doing something that you're not necessarily expecting from any 190 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 3: given movie, and especially in this case, Like I think 191 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: the immediate categorization you'd put this in is like America 192 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 3: and sci fi blockbuster. But at the same time, there's 193 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: so many things to me that really stand out as 194 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 3: not necessarily blockbuster e or like even a little Korean 195 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 3: like in the way that the movie has been made, 196 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 3: and so it's a really unique piece for me, and 197 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: also like a showcase for some really really incredible performances. 198 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, unbelievable performances from Was there anything that really surprised 199 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: you when it came to those performances because it's an 200 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 2: incredible cast and director Bong is known for getting really 201 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: brilliant performances from actors from around the globe. But the 202 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: you was there one that stood out or felt a 203 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: little bit different? 204 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 3: I would say, I think there are kind of two 205 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 3: big performance aspects that stood out to me. I know 206 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 3: you said, what. 207 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: Please go great, I didn't want to put you on 208 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: the spot. Tell us as many as you like. 209 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: The first one being obviously you have these dual performances, 210 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 3: or at least dual performances from Robert Pattinson. And it's 211 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: not just the fact of him being such a brilliant 212 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 3: actor that he can make these two Mickeys so distinct 213 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: even when he's like on the same screen, but also 214 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 3: the way that that character is written, where like the scenes, 215 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 3: the multiple scenes where Micky eighteene's like this situation is 216 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 3: so nuts, what did you do? And Mickey Seventeen's like, 217 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: I didn't do anything, and Micky eighteen getting mad at him, 218 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 3: Like I think so many of us have kind of 219 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 3: had that kind of response to our within ourselves, which 220 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 3: is one of the beautiful things about The Mickeys, which 221 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: is it ultimately is one person it's just these different 222 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: facets that are being brought out by the different copies, 223 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: and like everyone has had that moment where you're out 224 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 3: and something sort of upsetting happens to you, but you 225 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 3: don't do anything in the moment, and then later you're like, oh, 226 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 3: like I should have said this or I should have 227 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: done that. But then another standout for me in particular 228 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: was Mark Ruffalo's performance as Kenneth Marshall. I think in 229 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 3: talking to other friends who've seen this movie, the comparison, 230 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 3: the immediate comparison point is like what Jake John Hall 231 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: was doing in Oakja, which was I think very polarizing. 232 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: Some people really liked it, some people really did not 233 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: like it. I am pro Jake Jolen Hall and Oacha, 234 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: and I'm also very pro Mark Ruffle in this, and 235 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: I think in particular in this in orc Ja, Jake 236 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: Joleen Hall has given the opportunity to go through kind 237 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 3: of a bigger gamut of emotions than you necessarily think 238 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 3: when you see that character in public, and the same 239 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: kind of goes for me for Kenneth Marshall, like not 240 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: to I guess we'll get into spoilers eventually, but at 241 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: the end of the film when he has that really 242 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 3: short bargaining moment with Mickey eighteen and he sort of 243 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: says like, we're both scared. Like that's such a small 244 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: and really intense moment that you don't think will come 245 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 3: to it from a character that's so overboard. 246 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: Now, having seen Mickey, I wonder again, having written the 247 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: book on Vong, what do you see in it that 248 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: ties it to the rest of Bong's work? How do 249 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: you classify his work? What do you see as the 250 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: themes that this director is fascinated with. 251 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 3: I think the really easy one to call out is 252 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: like themes of socioeconomic disparity and like kind of class warfare, 253 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: which is very, very prevalent in Mickey, where like he 254 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 3: goes on this expedition because he has no other option. 255 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: He'll literally be killed if he stays on earth because 256 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 3: he can't pay back this loan. And then the life 257 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: that he ends up living is one that everyone kind 258 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: of looks down on and thinks is horrible because it 259 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: is he has to die over and over again, but 260 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 3: that's the only option that's available to him within the 261 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: system that he's in. And obviously I think like looking 262 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: at Parasite which probably is his most seen film at 263 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 3: this point, Like, that's all that movie's about. It's about 264 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 3: the way that we move within the class structures that 265 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: have been set for us and how we deal with it. 266 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: And it fits into that pretty neatly, as well as 267 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: fitting into his pensiant for really bouncing around in tone 268 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 3: and genre, like there's not really one word that you 269 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 3: can use to some up Mickey seventeen or any of 270 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: his movies really, And then I think the other big 271 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: thing is it sort of if anything, it's it's almost 272 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 3: closest to snow Piercer in a way, like not just 273 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: because that's another English language film of his, but because 274 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 3: that's I think the only other one of his films 275 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: where the end result is, oh, we had to completely 276 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: dismantle the structure that we were living in in order 277 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: to make it better or more livable, whereas the others, 278 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 3: I think because they are taking place in a more 279 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: quote unquote like realistic setting, like Parasite is in our 280 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: contemporary society, arguably in which case, like those characters cannot 281 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 3: meaningfully affect change in the way that they might want to. 282 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: What was your entry point into his films? What was 283 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: your first memory of watching a film by direct Bong 284 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: and being like, Oh, this is someone whose work is 285 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: really speaking to me. 286 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: The first thing that I saw was The Host on 287 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: home video, I think like maybe a year or so, 288 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: like after it had come out in theaters, and I 289 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 3: remember being so shocked and kind of so traumatized in 290 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 3: the food that I saw it, because It's so unlike 291 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: any other monster movie that I'd seen, and also especially 292 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 3: like the death of the Grandpa in that movie was 293 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: so so striking to me in the way that it 294 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 3: was executed and shot. What about both of you? 295 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: Who? Oh god? I think I think for me, I 296 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: think I did see The Host first, and I really 297 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: liked it. But I remember the first time I watched 298 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: Memories of Murder Yeah, and just feeling like, oh wow, 299 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: like that's the kind of movie that made me feel 300 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: like electrified, you know. I immediately wanted to watch more 301 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: of his movies and just discover Also when I was 302 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: growing up, Mother was like such a cult kind of 303 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: everyone was like you've got to watch this, yeah, like 304 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: you won't believe this movie. And then from then on, 305 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 2: I mean, hilariously, I think now it's hard to pick 306 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: a favorite, but I do just love Oakja so much. 307 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: For me, I think, like Mickey seventeen feels so akin 308 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 2: to Oakture that it's been really really great for me 309 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: for my friends to be texting me going, oh wow, 310 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 2: this is like so different from Parasite. What should I 311 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: watch next? And I'm like, go watch Joke Snoopy obviously, 312 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: but yeah, I think for me it was that kind 313 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: of double bill of the Host and then Memories of 314 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: Murder and being like, oh wow, this is so eclectic, 315 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: Like I don't know any other director who the first 316 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: two movies I've watched are so different. 317 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was The Host for me. It was the 318 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: first one that I saw, although I'll admit that I 319 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: was not. I thought it was a great movie and 320 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: very fun. I didn't think that did he had the 321 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: depth that would come to the four through. I mean really, 322 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: oak Joe was where I was like, oh, there's something 323 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: more here. Snow Puercer I enjoyed also, and then Parasite. 324 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: I saw his films in those in that order. Yeah, 325 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: Parasite was really the movie where I understood that he 326 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: had some very trenched things to say about the world 327 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: that we live in, and he was saying them through 328 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: these sometimes seemingly unrelated genre films in a really interesting way. 329 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, the host the host because it was like, hey, hey, 330 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: monster movie, let's go see this fun monster movie. 331 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 3: Yeah. That was also, I guess, like the first movie 332 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: that kind of made it overseas. 333 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, I think that that's a really great kind 334 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 2: of unifying thing between the three of us because it 335 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 2: says a lot about Bong's work where it's like they're like, oh, 336 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: it's a monster movie. You can release this around the world, 337 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: but then people stop rewatching it and they're like, wait 338 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 2: a minute, this is actually like incredibly deep. But yeah, 339 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 2: themes of family and how hard it is to be 340 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: a parent and how hard it is to be a kid, 341 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: and kind of the ways that people react to disasters. 342 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: And I think it's kind of funny because I remember 343 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 2: when Parasite was kind of before we'd seen it and 344 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 2: the general public had seen it, and the kind of 345 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: buzz coming from people who weren't you. Karen, who understood 346 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 2: his work was like, Oh, it's a horror movie. Bong 347 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: Juno's doing a horror movie. And I was like, oh, 348 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 2: that will be interesting. And then I was at the 349 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: Beyond Fest screening which turned out to be like the 350 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: kind of North American premiere ish that you were at, 351 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 2: and I remember all me and my friends watched it 352 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: and we were like, oh, it's not a horror movie. 353 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: Like so it's kind of those interesting people don't really 354 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 2: they still don't know where to place them, And I 355 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: think that's really interesting. What was it like for you 356 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: as somebody who had seen Parasite and then I remember, 357 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: you know, Bonghive really rising up after Can and everything. 358 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 2: What was it like to be a part of the 359 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: journey that that movie took kind of globally. 360 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 3: It was really shocking and even today my instinct, I 361 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: feel like, is to downplay it where I'm like, there's 362 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 3: just no way that. Like, of course, social media worth 363 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: of word of mouth is a big part of getting 364 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 3: to get people to go see movies to a certain degree, 365 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 3: but ultimately it's still not I don't know, it's just 366 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 3: as much a part of the apparatus as like marketing 367 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 3: or things like that, which I think, like the Neon 368 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 3: team did such a good job with Parasite and also 369 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 3: knowing that that was a movie that they could and 370 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 3: should push right, which I think is it's not easy. 371 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: Like again, when I was watching the Oscars and Parasite 372 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 3: won Best Director and Best Form Film, I was like, Oh, 373 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 3: it's not going to get Best Picture because that's just 374 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 3: so not the traditional narrative for a film that's not 375 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 3: in English for a foreign language feature, and which made 376 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 3: it seem just like all the more like a miracle 377 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 3: when it did win Best Picture. 378 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: Researching your book, what did you learn about Bong's process 379 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: to help us understand how he puts these, how he 380 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: decides what project to do next, how he spins up production, 381 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: the writing process, etc. 382 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 3: I guess, obviously not to speak for him, but in 383 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: the different stories that I found about where various films 384 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 3: came from, it seems kind of like everything comes from 385 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 3: a very pure storytelling level, like there has to be 386 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: some really brilliant seed to germinate these amazing ideas. Like Mother, 387 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: for instance, that came about because of Kim Hitcha, the 388 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 3: main actress in it. He knew of her because everyone 389 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: in Seth, Korea did at that time. Everyone knew of 390 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 3: her and had this image of her as like the 391 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 3: ideal Korean mother, like this very warm maternal image, and 392 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 3: he was like, well, what can I do exactly? And 393 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: in that case, it's like that movie was for her. 394 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: If she'd said no, He said that he wouldn't have 395 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: gone forward with the film. That was kind of it. 396 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 3: Whereas stuff like Barking Dogs and Every Bite his first film, 397 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 3: he was just like, this was just born out of 398 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 3: like stuff that kind of had happened around me, my 399 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 3: personal experiences, as much as Parasite was because he's talked 400 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: about being a tutor for a rich family and how 401 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: strange that experience was. And in Barking Dogs, Never Bite 402 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 3: like that, I think he said it was filmed like 403 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 3: in his brother's apartment complex or something like that, Like 404 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 3: it was based on experiences that occurred around him. Whereas 405 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 3: then you have SNOWPERI, certain Miki seventeen, which are based 406 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 3: on pre existing materials, but like in both in the 407 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 3: adaptation process, have been spun into kind of very different things. 408 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 2: Do you have obviously, is there one movie by director 409 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: Bong right now that feels like the closest to your 410 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: heart or that is your kind of favorite, because I 411 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 2: know that stuff shifts and changes, but coming out of 412 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 2: the book and in this new era where he has 413 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: a new, you know, wide release film, is there one 414 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 2: that particularly stands out to you as your favor. 415 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 3: I feel like the answer always sort of shifts, like 416 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 3: and ebbs and flows, But the host is someone that 417 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 3: I keep coming back to because it was the first 418 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 3: one and for me, is so emblematic of the things 419 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 3: that he can do as a filmmaker. But as I've 420 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 3: as the years of past, I think about Mother more 421 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 3: and more. I think like, because I feel like it's 422 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 3: sort of maybe you would agree with this, and one 423 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 3: of the most underrated of his films, like just it's 424 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: kind of underseen in his overall works, and yet is 425 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest impact pieces. Like when 426 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 3: I watch it, I kind of have to just sit 427 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 3: for a while and not do anything else or find 428 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 3: a different way to decompress because it is so intense 429 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 3: and so striking. 430 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: Well, Ken, thank you so much for joining us. 431 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for having me. 432 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a joy. Feel free to come back anytime. 433 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 2: Talk about Bongo anything else, please, I would love to. 434 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: On the next episodes of Extra Vision, Wednesday, we're covering 435 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: the latest episode of Seven's Thursday Get a Devil Borning 436 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: on episode one on three, and Saturday, we're getting more 437 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: news to you simply. This episode, Goodbye and X ray Vision, 438 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie Knight and is 439 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcast. 440 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kurtman. 441 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar. 442 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag. 443 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme 444 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman. 445 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and 446 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: Heidi our discord moderator.