Speaker 1: What was that top order? John? Mike, he was throwing
Speaker 1: over at FDR Park for them largemouth. John asked to
Speaker 1: see his dad's old musky gun. How else would you
Speaker 1: dispatch of musky before bringing it in the boat? If
Speaker 1: you could fish with any muppet, which one would it be?
Speaker 1: The guy that was in the trash can? Example? Where's Puck?
Speaker 1: Remember Puck from the real world? Whatever happened to Puck?
Speaker 1: Good morning, degenerate Anglers, and welcome to Ben, the fishing
Speaker 1: podcast that once got booted off an episode of MTVS
Speaker 1: lip Service for not knowing the words to how do
Speaker 1: You Talk to an Angel? I'm Joe Surmellie. I'm Miles Nulty.
Speaker 1: And wasn't that like the theme song to Dawson's Creek? No, No,
Speaker 1: it was not. And you know what did you know
Speaker 1: it Wasn't you know that? You know? That asked rhetorical question?
Speaker 1: There is. It's actually more on point than you realize, though,
Speaker 1: because the guy who's sang how do you Talk to
Speaker 1: an Angel? Actually did play Tory Spelling's boyfriend on Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills One. Oh really? How about yeah? How about that?
Speaker 1: You're dude, You're like a nineties media Savante. I hate that.
Speaker 1: I know that, but I do we ever get to
Speaker 1: play bar trivia again. I'm on your team. I'm calling Dibbs.
Speaker 1: We're on the same team. And you're right. That was
Speaker 1: a snide comment. That was being a jerk. But to
Speaker 1: get back to where I think you were trying to
Speaker 1: lead us in this conversation, Yes, I do remember MTVS
Speaker 1: Lip Service and and if memory serves, it was a
Speaker 1: cringeworthy lip syncing competition judged by B list celebrities exactly exactly,
Speaker 1: And I watched that show religiously back in the day.
Speaker 1: And I feel like in that era in the early
Speaker 1: to mid nineties, you'd come home from school and that
Speaker 1: was always what was on, Like like if you just
Speaker 1: put on MTV in the afternoon, that's what was on.
Speaker 1: And I watched it like crazy, Um, What's Spinderella was
Speaker 1: the DJ Salt Pepper, So yeah, from Salton Pepper. It
Speaker 1: was the bomb because she'd throw Jane's addiction at some
Speaker 1: sorority girl like and it was glorious because the same
Speaker 1: girl she'd be all over that ASA bass track, you know,
Speaker 1: like really feeling herself and proven. But then like Perry
Speaker 1: Farrell comes in and it's instant train wreck. Just it
Speaker 1: just falls apart. And then these poor these poor people
Speaker 1: would have to have their their performance judged by like
Speaker 1: Gilbert Godfrey on bottom Mchanneth Kilbert. How did they move
Speaker 1: for you? They moved, well, good movement. What do you
Speaker 1: give him? Man? How deep the lip service rabbit hole
Speaker 1: did you did you fall to do this bit? It
Speaker 1: was large, it was large and deep. It was large,
Speaker 1: and to be honest, I'm gonna tell you what, man,
Speaker 1: it wasn't even the lip service footage that that like
Speaker 1: took me back and tickled me most. But the commercials
Speaker 1: in the episodes I watched, like some of them had
Speaker 1: the old commercials still in there, like you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like listen to this, you do you remember
Speaker 1: cinemburst gum. These dots indicated explosive personality play a crystical
Speaker 1: suitable flavor crystal. Yes, I had completely block those from
Speaker 1: my memory, I think, or I don't know. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: whatever toxic chemicals those were made out were actually responsible
Speaker 1: for my lack of short term memory. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but they definitely couldn't have been good
Speaker 1: for probably be bad. Uh. This might also be a
Speaker 1: rhetorical question, what happened to that dude who hosted lip Service? Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't even know his name? Who knows? I don't
Speaker 1: who knows John something? I think I don't know John j.
Speaker 1: It was definitely a j word. Uh. And I mean
Speaker 1: there's that guy. I feel like what there? I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a whole host of twentysomethings who thought that
Speaker 1: getting on MTV was gonna like jump start their careers.
Speaker 1: And now I have no idea what happened to them? Uh,
Speaker 1: where's example, where's Puck? Remember Puck from the real World?
Speaker 1: Whatever happened to Puck? Holyesh? Yet Puck, Puck was man,
Speaker 1: Puck was the best. Thank you for Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I forgot about though. I will say, Puck, if you're listening, like,
Speaker 1: we'd love to have you on Puck And normally, like
Speaker 1: we say stuff like that, and it's a joke because
Speaker 1: these people it's not gonna happen. These people aren't going
Speaker 1: to come on our show. But it's not outside the
Speaker 1: Roman possibility. We may actually hear from Puck because I'm
Speaker 1: assuming at this point his career as a bike messenger
Speaker 1: has dried up. He's probably Puck's probably not doing a
Speaker 1: whole lot these days. I really hope we don't hear
Speaker 1: from him. I'll just say, come on, yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: get it. You you think it would be funny. I'm
Speaker 1: I would vote in a on Puck, and I'm not
Speaker 1: really worried about it. If I'm being honest, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure Puck didn't take up fishing all right. Now, moving on,
Speaker 1: That's that's probably enough nineties pop culture for one intro.
Speaker 1: Let's get into uh, let's get into our real world. Here,
Speaker 1: this this real world. We're kicking things off this week
Speaker 1: with a badass, salty East Coast fly fishing guide who's
Speaker 1: probably too young to have caught any of those references,
Speaker 1: but all right, we like her anyway. Uh. In this
Speaker 1: week's covering Water segment, we're making like the pilots and
Speaker 1: wings a little more for you. But instead of trying
Speaker 1: to fly to Nantucket, we're landing on Martha's vineyard to
Speaker 1: rapid fire, idiotic questions at Captain Abbey Schuster, I'm going
Speaker 1: can hold it? Joining us today we have Massachusetts based guide,
Speaker 1: outfitter and shop owner, Captain Abbey Schuster. What's going on? Abbey? Hey?
Speaker 1: How are you? Thanks? For having me. Great to have
Speaker 1: you here, even if you're on on the wrong side
Speaker 1: of the country, I still still appreciate she's on my
Speaker 1: side of the country, Okay, the right coast. So so
Speaker 1: as I was, as I was trying to prepare for this,
Speaker 1: like I was, I was, I was working on figuring
Speaker 1: out how to somehow quickly sum up the trajectory of
Speaker 1: your career. And I'm not sure if I got it right.
Speaker 1: You're born out east, and then you came to Montana
Speaker 1: for college and started guiding around Missoula. Then then you
Speaker 1: went over and started guiding in Washington and Alaska, and
Speaker 1: then you went back east to start up your your
Speaker 1: outfitting operations. Is that all correct? Yep, that's right? And
Speaker 1: is that is that because you finally couldn't stand not
Speaker 1: having a good piece of pizza anymore? Actually it was
Speaker 1: part of it. You're probably picking up on something that
Speaker 1: you may or may not know, and which is that
Speaker 1: Joe and I are perpetually locked in this East versus
Speaker 1: West feud and uh, and that's fact that you went
Speaker 1: back there kind of tells me that you're on his side.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm holding that against you a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I'll get over it tries and finally I said,
Speaker 1: I could be East Coaster again. Party, I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: not arguing that. I just you know, I'm partial to
Speaker 1: Montana myself. Part of my heart there fair enough. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna leave that alone because we don't need to. We
Speaker 1: don't need to dive into that whole East West. I
Speaker 1: think that's been covered more than enough. Another thing I
Speaker 1: found out about you. You are the only charter captain
Speaker 1: that I know who's also a yoga instructor. Alright, so
Speaker 1: just real quick, real quick, Like, I'm very familiar with
Speaker 1: the process of getting licensed as a captain because because
Speaker 1: I've done it. But is there is there like a
Speaker 1: formal process for for getting oneself recognized as a yoga instructor?
Speaker 1: Is it just like being a professional fly persian gut
Speaker 1: on Instagram? Okay, so what does that mean? Like, what
Speaker 1: does it mean to be You can't just like I
Speaker 1: can't just tomorrow call myself a yoga instructor I hope
Speaker 1: not offense. No, you have to do like two hours
Speaker 1: of school or five hours of school, and then you're
Speaker 1: two our teacher, five teacher and so it's usually like
Speaker 1: mine was nine months for of like twice a month
Speaker 1: for the whole weekend. So it's harder than becoming a captain,
Speaker 1: is what you're saying. It's longer, but the test way easier.
Speaker 1: Tests are hard. They're really hard. I know, I was
Speaker 1: surprised how hard they were. I can spend too much
Speaker 1: time on this, but I feel like I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna save my stupid questions for the actual reason
Speaker 1: you're here. Uh. We asked you onto the show today
Speaker 1: to take part in covering Water, which is the rapid
Speaker 1: fire interview segment we do instead of bothering to conduct
Speaker 1: proper interviews. And here's how it works. Joe is gonna
Speaker 1: put two minutes on the clock and then he and
Speaker 1: I are gonna rapid fire questions at you. Your goal
Speaker 1: is to get through as many as possible in those
Speaker 1: two minutes, which means you can't think about your answers.
Speaker 1: You just gotta blurt out whatever comes to that. But
Speaker 1: in the spirit of fairness, after those two minutes are up,
Speaker 1: we will give you one minute to expand and elaborate
Speaker 1: on whichever answer you think was most interesting or potentially
Speaker 1: damaging to your career. Pick the career ender and you can.
Speaker 1: You have one minute to people love this. All our
Speaker 1: guests are like, what a great segment? All right? You
Speaker 1: ready to go? All right? Two minutes starts now we're
Speaker 1: doing more yoga. Make me a less shitty spay caster. Yes,
Speaker 1: what's the most painful spot you've ever been? Hooked? My stomach?
Speaker 1: Your least least favorite fish to target? Um? Sea robin ah?
Speaker 1: Interesting one? Which beer is honestly truly better Bad Martha
Speaker 1: or Cisco? Cisco? Whoa, that's the Nantucket beer gunheads? I
Speaker 1: should explain that Rocky Mountain oysters or whole belly clams?
Speaker 1: Whole belly clams? What gets you more excited? The worm
Speaker 1: hatch or the squid run? Which fish are stupider stripers
Speaker 1: busting a bait pile or cutthroats chewing on katas cut
Speaker 1: the cape cod canal? I love it? Or screw that
Speaker 1: ship show? Screwed up? Sh chew? Nice? Thank you? Who's
Speaker 1: the greatest angler of all time? Oh? My grandmother is
Speaker 1: pretty good. That's a great, excellent, great beat. The best
Speaker 1: fish to sitecast two in the entire world is iron
Speaker 1: gar or vinyasa? I don't even know, I don't have
Speaker 1: anything there. The movie you quote most often? Is I'm
Speaker 1: really bad at quoting movies. Okay, so not really. The
Speaker 1: species you've never caught, the highest on your list peacock, bass, okay, clouser, minnows,
Speaker 1: chartruss over white or pink over white if you could
Speaker 1: only use one for the rest of your life, pink
Speaker 1: favorite excellent poppers or stick baits. If you could fish
Speaker 1: with any muppet, which one would it be? Oh, that's
Speaker 1: a good one. Maybe the guy that lives in the
Speaker 1: trash can that. No, that's Oscar, but it's a perfect
Speaker 1: color for it. We'll have to get clarification whether Oscar
Speaker 1: is a muppet. I don't think so. I don't think
Speaker 1: that was a fun one, all right, so I will.
Speaker 1: I am now putting one minute on the clock, and
Speaker 1: you can you can elaborate, Abbey on any one of
Speaker 1: those answers that you would like. Your time starts now. Okay,
Speaker 1: the beer question, I feel like I have to go
Speaker 1: back to that because we have this little rival between
Speaker 1: you know, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard. I like Martha's. I
Speaker 1: like that Martha's you know my people, but I just
Speaker 1: like the taste of Let's go better. I have to
Speaker 1: say I really do, man, you pick the one that
Speaker 1: is like saving your local street credit. I appreciate you. Know,
Speaker 1: I would be the shop and not run another year.
Speaker 1: And we're right down the road, so I have a
Speaker 1: protection that here. Oh man, I wish I had anything
Speaker 1: to say about this, because I don't know either of
Speaker 1: those beers or anything about this present ever, look full disclosure.
Speaker 1: When I was coming up with questions, I wanted to
Speaker 1: come up with some fun ones, so I reached out
Speaker 1: to a buddy of mine who's up there it works
Speaker 1: for on the water, and I was like, dude, what's
Speaker 1: a good beer question for Abby? And he's like, she's
Speaker 1: on the vineyard right, and he's like, yeah, so bad
Speaker 1: Martha or Cisco. That's the two rival that's the two
Speaker 1: rival beers. Yeah, they do the island's rival. You should
Speaker 1: see it. It's crazy. I've never been to Nantucket, only
Speaker 1: Martha's Vineyard, but that was for a Jaws tour, sadly
Speaker 1: not to fish. And that that's dorky and I'm sorry
Speaker 1: I said it, but that's what I've been there for.
Speaker 1: I've only been to Nantucket one to fish around there
Speaker 1: all the time, like actually stepped foot on the Island twice,
Speaker 1: yet they have the better local brew. Yeah, I stopped,
Speaker 1: got a beer hang out. I feel like I feel
Speaker 1: like we've thrown a regional gauntlet here on Bent and
Speaker 1: this will only be settled with the with the fishing throwdown.
Speaker 1: Hopefully Joe can get up there and do that and
Speaker 1: help you out with that. Abby, thanks for coming. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate having you. Thank you so much. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you why, man. I got such a kick out of
Speaker 1: Abby using her one minute of clarification time to explain
Speaker 1: why the rival Islands microbrew is better than her Islands micros.
Speaker 1: Like that was gutsy if you think about it, like
Speaker 1: to to just just you know, she just went for
Speaker 1: it and was honest. But I admire her honesty so much.
Speaker 1: And I hope nobody's you know, like burning cases of
Speaker 1: Cisco on the steps at the shop right now. Terrible.
Speaker 1: I hope that's not the case either. I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna think better of humanity and guess everyone took
Speaker 1: it and stride uh. And you know, I think that
Speaker 1: that's part of why I and other people like Abby.
Speaker 1: She's she's straight up, man. She calls it like she
Speaker 1: sees it. Yeah, yeah, And I don't know anything about
Speaker 1: that fishery out there, so I don't know what you
Speaker 1: guys were talking about with the Cape Cod Canal, but
Speaker 1: after you outed it as a ship show, I want
Speaker 1: to know more interesting. Yeah. Yeah, we could spend hours
Speaker 1: picking that apart. And for the record, I've never actually
Speaker 1: fished there, but I want to because I enjoy a
Speaker 1: good ship show, you know, sometimes like it's just part
Speaker 1: of the Northeast scene, but basically it's shoulder to shoulder
Speaker 1: dudes in season, and like many places in the Northeast,
Speaker 1: you know, it gets crowded, and some people consider catching
Speaker 1: a big straper there kind of half a victory, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's really easy access and the fish are kind
Speaker 1: of corralled and and somebody with relatively little knowledge can
Speaker 1: can stick a forty pounder there, just like walk up
Speaker 1: and sweat pants and do it. But then it's that
Speaker 1: argument of does that fish count as much as the
Speaker 1: forty You know, a guy caught by putting on a
Speaker 1: wet suit and swimming to a rock in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night after months of noting the tides and
Speaker 1: following the migration, So it's kind of you it as
Speaker 1: like the easy place to get your big bass. But
Speaker 1: I still want to fish there, so yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think I can. I can weigh on that.
Speaker 1: If we're talking about, you know, big trout in the
Speaker 1: Spring Creek versus land of the giants out here, I could,
Speaker 1: I could talk about that, but I'm I'm I don't
Speaker 1: know if if we're if you're asking me the question,
Speaker 1: does that count? I don't know. I think the guy
Speaker 1: doing the crazy stuff in the middle of the night
Speaker 1: counts more. I would I would pick that one has
Speaker 1: more valid, you know, I definitely. I mean, in my
Speaker 1: youth around here, I almost killed myself a couple of
Speaker 1: times just trying to catch twenty and shrout. I have
Speaker 1: no idea what I would have done if I had
Speaker 1: access to forty pounds stripers, Like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: would have done something like I did for the time
Speaker 1: when I discovered stripers. Yeah, and like in the past,
Speaker 1: when we've been swapping fishing stories, you've told me about
Speaker 1: folks you know who get like fully suited up in
Speaker 1: heavywet suits and swim rough seas at night to deep
Speaker 1: water rocks, and they like they tow all their gear
Speaker 1: behind them right, just to get a shutterproof stuff like
Speaker 1: you know, that's what all those vans stalls are for
Speaker 1: their waterproof lash it to themselves and kick backwards. Man,
Speaker 1: None for me, thanks, But I know the guys who
Speaker 1: do this, I'm intrigued by that, Like, yeah, that is
Speaker 1: one of them. And we can added to a whole
Speaker 1: list of things in the Northeast that I just don't
Speaker 1: know much about, but I want to know more about it,
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm, I'm interested in that. And as we
Speaker 1: do so often, we get on these topics about Western
Speaker 1: stuff and Northeastern stuff and and by my request, this week,
Speaker 1: Joe is gonna teach us a lot more about a
Speaker 1: very niche Northeast word with hip hop roots in the
Speaker 1: weekly word. Webster's Dictionary defines fish as this week's word
Speaker 1: is John. That's j A w N. And it's a
Speaker 1: word that really has nothing to do with fishing, but
Speaker 1: at the same time could technically have everything to do
Speaker 1: with fishing. And the only reason I'm even doing this
Speaker 1: John is because I said the word John in another episode,
Speaker 1: and Miles, being the word smith that he is, was
Speaker 1: so intrigued by my John he had to know more
Speaker 1: about the John. John is a slang term that originated
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, at least mostly and we'll get to that,
Speaker 1: and is used so much even in Philly's surrounding PA
Speaker 1: and New Jersey suburbs, that it often appears in advertising.
Speaker 1: McDonald's even got down on that John, with billboards featuring
Speaker 1: nothing but a sausage McMuffin and the words that's my John.
Speaker 1: Visit Philly dot COM's billboards read there's no John like
Speaker 1: Home and vitamin water plaster the area with billboards that
Speaker 1: said Vitamins electrolytes, get that John. So what is this John? Well?
Speaker 1: According to that Oxford Dictionary, john john refers to a thing, place, person,
Speaker 1: or event that one need not or cannot give a
Speaker 1: specific name to. So basically, John can be used to
Speaker 1: replace absolutely any now anyone at all in its singular
Speaker 1: or plural form. As an example, I might say, what
Speaker 1: was that top order John, Mike, he was thrown over
Speaker 1: at FDR Park for them largemouth John. Or upon seeing
Speaker 1: a giant flathead catfish swimming along the bank of the
Speaker 1: School River, I might say, Yo, that's the biggest John
Speaker 1: I ever seen in here, followed by yo, I'm retiring
Speaker 1: my John with fifty pound, because that thirty pound John
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be strong enough of a hook that John. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: John can be pluralized with or without an S. Saying
Speaker 1: let me get one of them John's when asking a
Speaker 1: buddy for a fresh mintow out of the bucket is acceptable,
Speaker 1: but more commonly, John is used to refer to multiple
Speaker 1: things minus the S. As an example, when asking a
Speaker 1: friend where he acquired multiple new striper plugs, you'd say,
Speaker 1: where'd you get them? John? You might also say I
Speaker 1: want to get into fly fishing, but there's so much
Speaker 1: John to buy. Theories abound about John and where it
Speaker 1: came from. In fact, John is such an intriguing word
Speaker 1: because it can be used in so many ways that
Speaker 1: linguists have spent years studying this John and tracing its origins.
Speaker 1: All signs point to John being a derivative of joint.
Speaker 1: Joint as a slang term rosen popularity in the American
Speaker 1: South around the time of emancipation, bars and clubs that
Speaker 1: served as safe havens for black Americans were called juke joints.
Speaker 1: This eventually expanded into the labeling of somewhat sketchy places
Speaker 1: as joints, which even further down the line translated to
Speaker 1: any place you considered kind of underground, such as that
Speaker 1: little pizza joint or burger joint you think only you
Speaker 1: and your boys know about. Even though that John is
Speaker 1: all over yelp, but some smart John believed John was
Speaker 1: born in Philly. In one specifically, that year, hip hop
Speaker 1: group Funky four plus one had a popular song called
Speaker 1: That's the Joint, and it was one of the earliest
Speaker 1: recorded hip hop tracks where the word joint was used
Speaker 1: as a positive term to refer to something good or
Speaker 1: something that you like. Linguist say, because the singers slightly
Speaker 1: drew out the vows in the word joint and didn't
Speaker 1: accentuate the t, Philadelphians either heard it as John or
Speaker 1: sang it as John, ultimately solidifying the future of that John.
Speaker 1: Take a listen what we just care miss? Just can't miss?
Speaker 1: What we just miss? Beat like this? Did you hear it?
Speaker 1: Let's listen one more time here. Whether you heard joint
Speaker 1: or John, the mere mention of this song being the
Speaker 1: origin of John infuriates many Philadelphians. Why because Funky four
Speaker 1: plus one was from the Bronx, and even though most
Speaker 1: linguists agreed. John technically came from Joint, which got popularized
Speaker 1: as a catch all in New York hip hop culture.
Speaker 1: Philly people just don't want to hear that John. That
Speaker 1: John means too much to them. Now, if you're one
Speaker 1: of them John that gets all mad about John coming
Speaker 1: from them New York John, here's what I suggest. Head
Speaker 1: out to the garage and grab your John and head
Speaker 1: down to that John where you called all them John
Speaker 1: last season. Cast out alive John under a bobber. Maybe
Speaker 1: throw one of them Panther and Martin John's and just relax.
Speaker 1: You got other John to worry about. No matter where
Speaker 1: that John came from, it's a Philly John. Now, quick
Speaker 1: follow up. Do you think that funky four plus one,
Speaker 1: that that particular track was ever on lip service? Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Yeah, that would have been a death sentence.
Speaker 1: It would have been these those those nineties kids would
Speaker 1: have no idea, no idea. And also I think it's
Speaker 1: funny because that song is from that era in hip hop,
Speaker 1: you know, like when one track was was twenty five
Speaker 1: minutes long and like chron an entire week in somebody's life.
Speaker 1: You know, my alarm went off at eight am. It
Speaker 1: was Tuesday, I was tired, so I hit the snooze button.
Speaker 1: Eight minutes later, my alarm went off again. When they
Speaker 1: just get on the thing, that's like, we're gonna rock
Speaker 1: this beat, gonna rock this peap, We're gonna rock this
Speaker 1: and it would go on for five minutes. But I am, yeah,
Speaker 1: sugar Hill, It's it's their style, no doubt. But I
Speaker 1: am curious though, Like, listening to that, did you hear
Speaker 1: Joint or John? Okay, so the first clip I heard Joint,
Speaker 1: but the second clip I heard John. Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: think I think with you like you can. I think
Speaker 1: you can take that one either way, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, because because there are different parts of the
Speaker 1: song that you sampled there and and in the first
Speaker 1: one to me is clearly Joint and the second one
Speaker 1: I hear the John. But before we get too far
Speaker 1: away from it, I really did love everything about that
Speaker 1: Weekly Word. I felt like you completely crushed that one
Speaker 1: and took it, took it in a direction I didn't
Speaker 1: think was gonna go. And I very deeply enjoyed it
Speaker 1: as a fun one for sure, and it hit on
Speaker 1: a lot of levels for me personally, and you got
Speaker 1: me thinking like As I was listening to that, you
Speaker 1: got me thinking about how how influential that particular Funky
Speaker 1: four plus one track was, I mean, and then I
Speaker 1: started thinking about all of its different references in hip hop. Right,
Speaker 1: you got this one from eighty nine, Yeah Man, Beasts
Speaker 1: for the Win on that fantastic track, fantastic album. If
Speaker 1: you don't know Paul's boutique, you gotta. And then there's
Speaker 1: this other one almost ten years later, this one from
Speaker 1: Playing again. Now, who's that? I don't know that? Okay?
Speaker 1: That was That was Black Eyed Peas back when Black
Speaker 1: Eyed Peas did hip hop instead of pop, back before
Speaker 1: Fergie was in it, and they were like they were
Speaker 1: an actual legitimate hip hop I could go, I could
Speaker 1: go on and on with us for a very long time. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we won't. I'll leave it at those two because
Speaker 1: I think they're good ones. But we've got our own
Speaker 1: little linguistics rap battle to deal with. Here. It's time
Speaker 1: for that fish news, John fish news. That escalated quickly,
Speaker 1: all right, for we're getting the news here. I I
Speaker 1: got a shout out this week. Have to shout out
Speaker 1: listener Dustin doug Stad or Dogstad again again with the
Speaker 1: names don't know. I'm not really sure. But he sent
Speaker 1: us a video clip, right, and I know you've seen it.
Speaker 1: I have, but before you get into it, the first
Speaker 1: time he sent it to us, there was no information,
Speaker 1: no context. It was just this really weird clip that
Speaker 1: I looked at it and I went, I don't know
Speaker 1: what's happening here, but I want to know, please tell
Speaker 1: me the story. Well now, so now, yeah, so he came.
Speaker 1: He came through with the follow up, and now we know,
Speaker 1: and I've never seen anything like it, right, And it
Speaker 1: almost makes me question how badly I actually want to
Speaker 1: fish in New Zealand. Now I've always sort of dreamed
Speaker 1: of it, And now I'm not so short. So we'll
Speaker 1: do the short version because we got a lot to
Speaker 1: get through today. But in the in this clip, Dustin's
Speaker 1: fishing this this trout river in New Zealand and he
Speaker 1: had caught himself like a really nice big rainbow that
Speaker 1: he apparently decided he was going to take home for dinner,
Speaker 1: so he bonked the fish. But then what he does
Speaker 1: is he props his cell phone up on a rock
Speaker 1: so he can get a little selfie video of his
Speaker 1: big rainbow. And then he says, while he was shooting
Speaker 1: that video, he realized that trout still had a little
Speaker 1: life left in it, so he moved off camera. He
Speaker 1: bonked it again, and then he reaches down to wash
Speaker 1: the slime and blood off his hands. Now remember his
Speaker 1: camera is still rolling propped on the rocks, so it's
Speaker 1: like getting him in the corner of the frame, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this giant, like three four ft
Speaker 1: eel latches onto his middle finger and he rips it
Speaker 1: out of the water, still still holding onto his hand,
Speaker 1: and just flings this giant eel just flings it. And
Speaker 1: his reaction is priceless. Okay, but he had said an
Speaker 1: email after the fact. You don't see this. But while
Speaker 1: he's examining his bloody, chewed up finger, he looks down
Speaker 1: he notices they're there are four more of these giant
Speaker 1: eels at his feet, just poised and staring at him,
Speaker 1: ready to grab either a piece of trout meat or
Speaker 1: or or his hand. I guess, and I posted this
Speaker 1: on my Instagram earlier this week, but I'll drop it
Speaker 1: in my story again today. But it's creepy and it
Speaker 1: leaves me like clutching the hand bit because while I'm
Speaker 1: fascinated by eels. I don't love the like they creep
Speaker 1: me out when I catch them, big congress, I don't
Speaker 1: like it. I don't like creep They're creepy. And uh,
Speaker 1: I have fished that river the Dustin was on, actually,
Speaker 1: and I will I can attest to the fact that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of those freshwater eels swimming around
Speaker 1: in New Zealand waters, like they're everywhere, But you tell
Speaker 1: me you don't. You don't catch them on flies, but
Speaker 1: like he and he dropped a blood any chunk of meat. Like.
Speaker 1: I never fished bait, so I would imagine that if
Speaker 1: you fish bait, you get you get a lot of eels.
Speaker 1: But on artificials. I never had any any eel action
Speaker 1: other than just seeing them around. They're everywhere and they're
Speaker 1: definitely creepy. Yeah, oh yeah, super creepy video. But Dustin,
Speaker 1: thank you for that man, Like I gotta I got
Speaker 1: a I don't know if i'd say pleasure out of it,
Speaker 1: but it was. It was fascinating to watch and and
Speaker 1: thank you for giving us the story so that we
Speaker 1: knew what the hell is going on, because that's one
Speaker 1: of those amazing moments you catch on camera that you
Speaker 1: can never recreate. All right, So, as a as you
Speaker 1: all know, Fish News is a competition and normally we
Speaker 1: have no idea what stories the other ones bringing. But
Speaker 1: it's a little different this week because Joe knows what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about. I'm gonna talk about something that
Speaker 1: that that we all know about here, um, but I
Speaker 1: don't know what Joe is going to talk about. So
Speaker 1: there's at least some mystery still involved. And at the
Speaker 1: end of it, are are phenomenal and amazing Audio engineer
Speaker 1: Phil is going to choose a winner and crown the
Speaker 1: champion of the week. And Joe, you're leading us off.
Speaker 1: So what do you got man? I am, I am,
Speaker 1: I'm leading us off. And I'm sure some of you
Speaker 1: recall the news story I did just last week, I
Speaker 1: believe about a woman in Malaysia eating her pet carp
Speaker 1: got a little little traction on the interwebs and she
Speaker 1: turned them into a nice soup. And in that report,
Speaker 1: we we touched on how it's understood that many people
Speaker 1: in many cultures love eating carp but by and large,
Speaker 1: we Americans don't. We don't eat the carp. In fact,
Speaker 1: like in the culinary world. People would go as far
Speaker 1: as calling carpet four letter word, which has been a
Speaker 1: really massive problem when it comes to getting people to
Speaker 1: eat invasive Asian carp right and um, even though they're
Speaker 1: not they're not the same species as common carp. They're
Speaker 1: not grubbing the bottom in the mud in the park pond.
Speaker 1: You know, they feed differently, they taste differently, and you
Speaker 1: and I can vouch for that, and we don't need
Speaker 1: to harp on it. But a piece of deep fried
Speaker 1: Asian carp is delicious and mild and not fishy at all.
Speaker 1: I eat at your house. We talked about it before.
Speaker 1: Still still they're called carp, which sours a lot of
Speaker 1: people from having any interest in eating them. Well. Uh.
Speaker 1: Per a recent story in USA Today, a full on
Speaker 1: media blitz is coming later this year, okay, to change
Speaker 1: the consumers perception of the fish and also more importantly,
Speaker 1: change its name. Okay, So now from this is from
Speaker 1: the article. The proposed new name for the fish is
Speaker 1: being kept tightly under wraps for a big rollout in
Speaker 1: June prior to the Boston Seafood Show in mid July.
Speaker 1: But other aspects of the what they're calling the Perfect
Speaker 1: Catch campaign will point out that invasive Asian carp species
Speaker 1: being Silver's big heads, grass carp and black carp are flaky, tasty, organic, sustainable,
Speaker 1: low and mercury and rich in protein and Omega three
Speaker 1: fatty acids. So what's happening here is the foodies are
Speaker 1: are kind of pulling another fast one. Right. And in
Speaker 1: case you didn't know, this has been done before, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure many of you have heard of
Speaker 1: orange ruffy, right. They're a deep dwelling saltwater fish. But
Speaker 1: orange ruffy is not their real name. Their their their
Speaker 1: technical name is slime head. They're called slime heads um,
Speaker 1: and nobody wants to eat a slime head. But in
Speaker 1: the late seventies a decision was made to rebrand those
Speaker 1: fish so people would buy and eat them, and they did,
Speaker 1: and the world ate so much orange roffy that in
Speaker 1: green Peace added them to their red list of unsustainable fisheries. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest ruse of them all is Chilean
Speaker 1: sea bass. Their real name is Patagonian toothfish. But nobody's
Speaker 1: paying eighty bucks for a play to Patagonian toothfish at
Speaker 1: the country club. Right, And but that name point blank
Speaker 1: was dreamed up by a seafood wholesaler in in seven
Speaker 1: looking to increase his profits and Boy Diddy and we
Speaker 1: don't have time to go into all the history and
Speaker 1: drama of commercial tooth fishing, but if you're interested, grab
Speaker 1: a copy of a book called Hooked, Pirates, Poaching and
Speaker 1: the Perfect Fish by G. Bruce Neckt. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've ever read that. It's an it's several people.
Speaker 1: Several people. After we talked about the tooth fish last
Speaker 1: week and their blood being used to melt, several people
Speaker 1: melt melt snow. Several people wrote me and said I
Speaker 1: should read that book. I haven't read it, but it's
Speaker 1: one one we might have to cover. It's been a
Speaker 1: lot of years. I should reread it, but I remember
Speaker 1: it's very very good book, very detailed. Anyway, there's not
Speaker 1: much more to say about the carp story, right because
Speaker 1: it's all a big secret, like they're unveiling the new name,
Speaker 1: like it's like a New Year's eve ball drop. Yet
Speaker 1: I fear that when it does finally light up, like
Speaker 1: there will just be the deflated sound of one party blower,
Speaker 1: you know, like the eat yeah, like the effect Phil
Speaker 1: uses in Fish News, Phil, you remind us, Thank you, Phil.
Speaker 1: But I hope it works, I really do. I'm just
Speaker 1: skeptical because people have tried this with dog fish, see robins, skates,
Speaker 1: all kinds of things, like all these different efforts to
Speaker 1: get people really excited about eating them and buying them,
Speaker 1: and it really hasn't worked on a grand scale. But
Speaker 1: it does leave me speculating, how can you not about
Speaker 1: those names? Oh that's the fun part about this. I
Speaker 1: I do you have a couple in mind? Because I
Speaker 1: have a couple in mind. Of course I do. All right,
Speaker 1: do you want to go first or second? I mean,
Speaker 1: I only have one that I think is valid, and
Speaker 1: it's not really funny. I just think it would work.
Speaker 1: I think you just need to call it silver Cod,
Speaker 1: So okay, interesting if people are gonna buy it and
Speaker 1: they're gonna get the hell out of it, I had
Speaker 1: a little bit more fun with it. And the way
Speaker 1: I look at it is it all depends on the branding,
Speaker 1: right If if you want it to be mostly consumed
Speaker 1: at state fairs as like fish and chips, deep fried
Speaker 1: crispy brown, if that's sort of the motif, we're gonna
Speaker 1: get people excited about I was, I was. I would
Speaker 1: say Kentucky cod was one of them. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: But now if you want to if you want to
Speaker 1: glitz it up and make it fancy and have it
Speaker 1: in a raspberry reduction, I came up with Priori and
Speaker 1: Hake or my favorite, Davenport's soul. Oh, davenports soul is
Speaker 1: pretty clever. That's clever, I like, you know, So we'll
Speaker 1: see what they what they rename the the Asian carp
Speaker 1: up there in in Boston this summer. But kidding aside,
Speaker 1: this is a fun little story. If you have the
Speaker 1: chance to consume some, whether you catch it or somebody
Speaker 1: offers you some, you'll be shocked. Don't say no, don't
Speaker 1: really good. We've really done a good job. I gotta
Speaker 1: give you credit for most this, but keeping this. It's
Speaker 1: been a fun, lighthearted episode so far. Everything's been been
Speaker 1: kind of cheaking and I'm going to completely ruin this
Speaker 1: vibe right now. It's gotta be done, though. There's an
Speaker 1: elephant in the room that has to be discussed. Um
Speaker 1: and I'm only gonna I'm only gonna do one story
Speaker 1: today because because it's kind of long. Yeah, So last week,
Speaker 1: the State of Wisconsin's head sturgeon biologist, Ryan Kanig, was
Speaker 1: charged with obstruction in a case the alleges he and
Speaker 1: his staff illegally transferred lake sturgeon eggs to local caviaar
Speaker 1: processors and then tried to cover it up. Yep, if
Speaker 1: you if you watch the sturgeon spearing episodes of the
Speaker 1: fur hat Ice Tour, you might remember the interview that
Speaker 1: Yannie did with with Mr kaneg When we were putting
Speaker 1: that episode together. I talked with him a lot, like
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say we're buddies, but I definitely got
Speaker 1: to know him, and he really helped kind of shape
Speaker 1: that story and help me understand, helped all of us
Speaker 1: understand the sturgeon fishery. So so Kennig is or I
Speaker 1: should say, was responsible for overseeing one of the largest,
Speaker 1: healthiest and best managed sturgeon populations in North America, the
Speaker 1: Lake Winnebago system. The story of this fishery and the
Speaker 1: community tied to the lake sturgeon around there, it just
Speaker 1: it captivated everybody involved, right, and that that's why we
Speaker 1: two of our episodes there, we just we had to
Speaker 1: cover that. It was so good and I don't want
Speaker 1: to get too repetitive for folks who already know, but
Speaker 1: I feel like this needs some backstory. Lake sturgeon, like
Speaker 1: all sturgeon, were pretty well wiped out by the turn
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, and in most places they just
Speaker 1: haven't come back. In nineteen of the twenty states where
Speaker 1: lake sturgeon once had viable populations, they remain either threatened
Speaker 1: or endangered. Lake Winnebago and Wisconsin is an outlier. It
Speaker 1: is the epicenter for sturgeon recovery. This is the success
Speaker 1: story that the rest of the country in other parts
Speaker 1: of the world are hoping they can emulate. And some
Speaker 1: of that can be attributed to the culture of sturgeon spearing,
Speaker 1: which would seem weird to some people, with those of
Speaker 1: us who work here and Honey and amily understand the
Speaker 1: relationship between sport and conservation. People around Winnebago really love
Speaker 1: spearing sturgeon. They really enjoy sitting over these giant holes
Speaker 1: cutting the ice, holding six ft long tridents and waiting
Speaker 1: for match of fish to swim past them. Back in
Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, a sturgeon spearit named Bill Casper
Speaker 1: noticed that there just weren't very many fish around, and
Speaker 1: he figured that other spears might be seeing the same thing.
Speaker 1: So he drove to all the bars around Lake Winnebago
Speaker 1: and tacked up these hand made flyers, asking people to
Speaker 1: come to a meeting and talk about it. To his shock,
Speaker 1: over three people showed up and the conservation group Sturgeon
Speaker 1: for Tomorrow was born. And that group, like, to me,
Speaker 1: that represents exactly what we mean when we talk about
Speaker 1: degenerate anglers. Like going to a bar, attacking up flyers
Speaker 1: and starting a conservation organization is exactly what I mean.
Speaker 1: Because that group has now grown into the largest citizen
Speaker 1: advocacy group for sturgeon in the world. They have partnered
Speaker 1: with management agencies and biologists from all over the US
Speaker 1: and all the way to Europe. They were instrumental in
Speaker 1: jump starting and helping to fund sturgeon hatchery programs. They
Speaker 1: pioneered the Sturgeon Guard, which is like a bunch of
Speaker 1: volunteers who lined the banks of the Wolf River every
Speaker 1: year to protect spawning sturgeon from poachers or people who
Speaker 1: just want to mess with them. Like they literally stand
Speaker 1: guard over this fish and so often fish and wildlife
Speaker 1: covery efforts result in conflict between management agencies and local residents,
Speaker 1: but in this case, spears and anglers have been able
Speaker 1: to work in concert with the Wisconsin DNR and the
Speaker 1: results have been phenomenal. Here's Kanek. This population has had
Speaker 1: a chance with the protections that have been in place
Speaker 1: for the last few decades that we're starting to see
Speaker 1: what these fish can actually do. We've got more fish
Speaker 1: than we probably had in recent decades, maybe even dating
Speaker 1: back to the late eight hundreds, and we've got more
Speaker 1: big fish than we maybe ever have had. All that
Speaker 1: has to say, Lake Winnebago sturgeon are a rare and
Speaker 1: unequivocal success story in modern fisheries conservation. They're in such
Speaker 1: good shape that the Wisconsin DNR can confidently open up
Speaker 1: a spearing season every year and tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: people by tags yeah sturgeon biologists at annual quota, and
Speaker 1: the DNR operates registration stations at all the major lake
Speaker 1: access points so that they can closely monitor fish harvest.
Speaker 1: As soon as that quota is met, which doesn't happen
Speaker 1: every year, the season closes immediately right there on it,
Speaker 1: so tex and biologists collect samples and data from each
Speaker 1: fish harvested like length, weight, sex, stomach contents, and sexual maturity,
Speaker 1: which provide critical information for continuing to monitor and manage
Speaker 1: the fish. So this is a very complex and really
Speaker 1: well organized event that gets tens of thousands of people
Speaker 1: fired up about Lake sturgeon and also helps the DNR
Speaker 1: collect all kinds of useful data. But spearing season, which
Speaker 1: opened last Saturday, began with a kind of a dark
Speaker 1: cloud over it. Kaneg, the biologist who has successfully overseen
Speaker 1: the Winnebago surgeon season since two thousand twelve, has been
Speaker 1: placed on administrative leave. He's also facing up to ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in fines and up to nine months in
Speaker 1: jail if convicted. He's not alone. Several other pillars of
Speaker 1: the sturgeon culture around Lake Winnebago are also facing possible charges.
Speaker 1: So what happened? Wisconsin? Dina has compiled evidence suggesting the
Speaker 1: Knag and other staff have been supplying row to local
Speaker 1: caveat processors for years. When a successful spear brought a
Speaker 1: sexually mature female to a registration station, the biologists and
Speaker 1: texts would sometimes collect the eggs as part of an
Speaker 1: ongoing fertility study. Knig told investigators that he delivered eggs
Speaker 1: to specific caviar processors at the Spears request after completing
Speaker 1: his analysis. Kani also told investigators he handed out sheets
Speaker 1: at surge and registration stations that listed certain processors names
Speaker 1: in contact info, so Spears knew where to deliver eggs
Speaker 1: if they wanted them processed into caviar. Now, if that
Speaker 1: were just the complete truth, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Speaker 1: But Knag and others have been under investigation since, and
Speaker 1: the criminal complaint alleges more nefarious goings on, shall we say,
Speaker 1: and astigators claim that dn R staff stored sturgeon eggs
Speaker 1: at registration stations with the sole intent of giving them
Speaker 1: the processors. They even found one cooler containing eggs marked
Speaker 1: with the name of a local processor. The complaint does not, however,
Speaker 1: cite any known sales of caviare or make any claims
Speaker 1: that anyone from dn R or elsewhere received payments for eggs.
Speaker 1: The problem is that there are numerous reports indicating the
Speaker 1: Knag and other DINA employees received jars of caviare as
Speaker 1: thanks as soon as Canagan. Others accepted gifts those sturgeon
Speaker 1: eggs were no longer given away. They were bartered, and
Speaker 1: bartering with wildlife products is unequivocally against the law and
Speaker 1: and to be honest. For really good reason, Canaan is
Speaker 1: being charged with obstruction because it appears he tried to
Speaker 1: cover up his involvement. The statements he made two investigators
Speaker 1: did not match some of the evidence they collect that Additionally,
Speaker 1: he performed a factory reset on his DNR issued cell
Speaker 1: phone after he became aware of the investigation. Yeah. Three
Speaker 1: other residents were charged with unlawful sale of game in
Speaker 1: connection to this case, including Victor and Mary Schneider. Again,
Speaker 1: if you watch the fur Head ice tour, you're probably
Speaker 1: gonna recognize Mary Schneider's name. She's the eighties seven year
Speaker 1: old decoy carver and and just matriarch of surgeon culture
Speaker 1: around Fondilac. I like the paint, I like that, I
Speaker 1: like that carve. Would do you know? I've been doing
Speaker 1: it for years. Mary told investigators that she and her
Speaker 1: husband process eggs dropped off by successful spears in exchange
Speaker 1: for half the finished product. There's no evidence that the
Speaker 1: Schneider has sold any of the caviard. They either ate
Speaker 1: it or gave it away to friends and family. But
Speaker 1: under the law, that's still a form of barter. I
Speaker 1: do not condone bartering or selling wildlife in any form.
Speaker 1: Doing so cance towards a slippery slope that can lead
Speaker 1: to the commodification of wild fish and animals. But man,
Speaker 1: I got to admit this story, the story really leaves
Speaker 1: me conflicted. You have several retired state employees said on
Speaker 1: the record that it wasn't unusual for DNR staff to
Speaker 1: share the prepared caveat they got from the processors at
Speaker 1: meetings or local taverns as a way of encouraging people
Speaker 1: to maximize the use of the fish they harvested. They
Speaker 1: considered the samples educational. And I can I can imagine
Speaker 1: that the folks work in those those sturgeon spearing season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like they see a lot of fish and a lot
Speaker 1: of fish eggs go to waste every year, and I'm
Speaker 1: I can imagine how frustrating that's gotta be. And so
Speaker 1: I can understand why they would want to encourage more
Speaker 1: spirits to eat eggs by showing them like, hey, this
Speaker 1: stuff can be made into a delicacy, It can be
Speaker 1: really good. Don't waste it. I also know how in
Speaker 1: a small town people often operate on a barter system,
Speaker 1: right like that they help each other out and they
Speaker 1: return favors in whatever ways they can. But I just, man,
Speaker 1: I think this case is a very sad and very
Speaker 1: high profile reminder to all of us that we just
Speaker 1: we can't use wildlife or fish meat or wild game
Speaker 1: as currency. Even a situation where it seems completely innocent
Speaker 1: and innocuous, like if somebody's helped me, I don't know,
Speaker 1: sand and repaint my deck, the law says I can't
Speaker 1: thank them with wally filets and deer steaks from my fraser.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that there are some people out there
Speaker 1: they're saying that it's crazy and this is a total
Speaker 1: overreach of enforcement. But the commodification of wildlife has had
Speaker 1: disastrous outcomes in the past. We've seen what happens. So
Speaker 1: we have these really strict laws for a reason. And
Speaker 1: and for all those of you out here want to
Speaker 1: know more about this, h head on over to the
Speaker 1: mediator dot com and check out Pat Darkin's article titled
Speaker 1: Wisconsin's sturgeon biologists charging caveat probe. I totally agree with
Speaker 1: the slippery Slope here, but just to maybe try and
Speaker 1: have a better understanding, just or to clarify here. So
Speaker 1: like what you're talking about with somebody standing your deck
Speaker 1: and you're thanking them with walleye filets or dear meat
Speaker 1: from your freezer, that you're not supposed to do because
Speaker 1: now technically that has become a form of payment. Basically,
Speaker 1: now that's barter. If those same two dudes came over
Speaker 1: and helped you with nothing, and as a gift, you
Speaker 1: were like, hey man, you want to take some walleye
Speaker 1: home or some venisone home. That's okay. It is. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can gift. It's different state by state, but sometimes
Speaker 1: you have to have paperwork associated with it to say
Speaker 1: like this has been gifted, but often after its process
Speaker 1: you don't have to do that. If it were a
Speaker 1: whole animal that I had harvested under my tag and
Speaker 1: I wanted to give it to somebody, there would be
Speaker 1: a bunch of paperwork you have to do to make
Speaker 1: it legal. But you can gift things, they just cannot
Speaker 1: become a form of currency. That's where things become a problem.
Speaker 1: You cannot begin to use any wildlife products as currency
Speaker 1: of any sort by law. And again look I get
Speaker 1: why it's it seems potentially crazy. How could you be
Speaker 1: upset at at this eighty seven year old woman who
Speaker 1: is making caviare for somebody, and you know she gets
Speaker 1: half of it that she gives to her friends and family.
Speaker 1: That is That is something I I very much can
Speaker 1: identify with and understand that sense of frustration. But I
Speaker 1: also think it's important to recognize that we have these
Speaker 1: game laws for a reason, and they're really strict for
Speaker 1: a reason. Of course, I genuinely hope and I expect
Speaker 1: that the Schneider's get let off, Like I will be
Speaker 1: pretty upset if they actually get prosecuted to the full
Speaker 1: extent of the law. I really I it's not my call,
Speaker 1: it's not my place. But if anyone were to ask me,
Speaker 1: I'd say, I mean, come ons that you made your point.
Speaker 1: Everybody understands, like, let's let's not actually prosecute these old people.
Speaker 1: Knig is a different story. Yeah, Like I think he
Speaker 1: probably did have good intentions, I really do, But it's
Speaker 1: the lying and the cover up instead of just coming clean,
Speaker 1: and that for me, that's where he crossed. That's what
Speaker 1: bites a lot of people on a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Man if you had just been open about it, you
Speaker 1: might not be in the in the same in the
Speaker 1: same pickle. And and you know to to that end.
Speaker 1: So both of us, I mean, we we got lit
Speaker 1: up since this dropped, Like, you know, I wasn't that
Speaker 1: the guy in fair hat wasn't you know you guys
Speaker 1: work with him and sort of unrelated to the central
Speaker 1: story too. Um, you know, this happens from time to time.
Speaker 1: It is, it has happened to me there There have
Speaker 1: been several times over the years where you shoot a
Speaker 1: video or write an article or or quote somebody. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and you do the best you can to
Speaker 1: to vet people and you certainly don't know everything about it.
Speaker 1: But then it comes out later like a dude got
Speaker 1: you know, hit for poaching crop ease and like you
Speaker 1: croppy fished with him three years ago. It happens on occasion,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's it's terrible, But um, I've
Speaker 1: had it happened with dudes who you know, had these
Speaker 1: incredible careers on the up and up, and then you know,
Speaker 1: something happens and then it comes back on you like oh,
Speaker 1: you were fishing with that ship head. It's like yeah, man,
Speaker 1: but you know, you don't know that, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like this, this stuff just unfortunately happens time
Speaker 1: to time. And you know, there's also the you can't
Speaker 1: throw out or discount the excellent work that this person
Speaker 1: has done previously in his career. That doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you condone the aspects that were illegal or or unethical,
Speaker 1: but you can't just discount and throw away the great
Speaker 1: work that he has done to help manage the sturgeon
Speaker 1: population and maintain the relationships of the community with a
Speaker 1: surgeon like the dude deserves the credit for what he
Speaker 1: did and and he's getting he's certainly getting the punishment
Speaker 1: for the things he did wrong as well. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: I mean, as shady as this is, he made some
Speaker 1: wrong choices in this, but you're right, you can't let
Speaker 1: this wipe away and and define every single thing that
Speaker 1: this guy has done in his career. No, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And I think ultimately the real
Speaker 1: loser and all of this isn't going to end up
Speaker 1: being the sturgeon population, right I think. I think, yes,
Speaker 1: that you've lost the person who was heading that up.
Speaker 1: You've lost some of the infrastructure that's worked to to
Speaker 1: to do this really well for the past nine years.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that Wisconsin Dina was gonna get it
Speaker 1: back together and get things up and running. It's all
Speaker 1: gonna be fine. But you know, losing the folks who
Speaker 1: have been intimately involved in this program and done well
Speaker 1: with it for almost a decade is certainly going to
Speaker 1: be a hiccup. I don't think. I don't think this.
Speaker 1: I don't think this has a happy ending, and I
Speaker 1: just hope that, you know, I think. I think if
Speaker 1: there's a takeaway for me, it's it's to remember, like
Speaker 1: that how easy it is to run a foul when
Speaker 1: it comes to gifting or bartering with with fish and wildlife,
Speaker 1: and that we just we all have to be careful
Speaker 1: with that. There's a reason why those laws exist. There's
Speaker 1: no reason to be piste off about it. Just just
Speaker 1: be careful what you do. It's yeah, and it's the
Speaker 1: simplest things that can get you in a lot of trouble,
Speaker 1: all right. So that one, we had to get that
Speaker 1: one out of the way. I got one more short
Speaker 1: one here. Although it all, it all does kind of
Speaker 1: tie together. We've eaten Asian carpet and caviare now two
Speaker 1: very controversial dishes apparently, So well, let's let's we'll try
Speaker 1: and move away to something a little more safe and familiar.
Speaker 1: Um we because we all love a nice, golden, crispy
Speaker 1: fried piece of walleye, right especially it is the American fish.
Speaker 1: It's the American fish which is what makes this interesting.
Speaker 1: Um we especially love that out of a frigid lake
Speaker 1: in the middle of winter, it's good eats. Anyway, Minnesota
Speaker 1: based Blue Water Farms, which is an aquaculture company, believes
Speaker 1: they're going to be the first to successfully raise mass
Speaker 1: quantities of eater sized walleyes indoors. Walleye farming now indoors indoors.
Speaker 1: So now here's the thing, right I. We could spend
Speaker 1: another hour digging into the backstory of walleye farming and
Speaker 1: commercial walleye fishing, but there's just a couple of key
Speaker 1: bullet points here that will help paint a better picture
Speaker 1: of why this is a big deal. Uh. There is
Speaker 1: no commercial walleye fishing in the US anymore right there,
Speaker 1: But there is in Canada. So while you don't see
Speaker 1: walleye for sale in the States as as frequently as
Speaker 1: you did, you know many many years ago. Uh, if
Speaker 1: you do see it at a fish fry joint and
Speaker 1: restaurant in the Great Lakes whatever, it was probably harvested
Speaker 1: in Canada. And then with a couple exceptions, I gotta,
Speaker 1: I gotta, because otherwise you're gonna get hammered. There are
Speaker 1: a couple of tribal there are a couple of tribal
Speaker 1: nations who still do commercial fish for walleye in the US,
Speaker 1: but mostly it's it's gone. But I know I can
Speaker 1: see with our listeners that you were gonna appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. There's a lot of research in this, okay,
Speaker 1: and I was not great in school. It's the other
Speaker 1: bullet point here. We know walleyes can successfully be raised
Speaker 1: in h hatcheries. Many states do this for stock and purposes. However,
Speaker 1: they're they're typically released into the wild around twenty centimeters
Speaker 1: because once they reached that length, they're sort of off
Speaker 1: of plankton and micro in vertebrates and they're eating each other.
Speaker 1: So basically walleyes can't really be raised to market size
Speaker 1: or one of the difficulties, Uh you know the size
Speaker 1: you get nice filets off of, because they're just too
Speaker 1: damn mean and cannibalistic. That's one of been that's been
Speaker 1: one of the biggest hangups in walleye farming. Uh And
Speaker 1: that's just one of many problems have been encountered over
Speaker 1: the years now and doing some research, there have been
Speaker 1: some advances right there. There was one dude who figured
Speaker 1: it out in um floating pens. But you know, he
Speaker 1: was he was supplying local establishments, but his walleye was
Speaker 1: so much more expensive than the ones being imported from
Speaker 1: Canada that it just didn't make any sense. He kind
Speaker 1: of got knocked out of the market anyway. According to
Speaker 1: this story in the Duluth News Tribune, Bluewater Farms thinks
Speaker 1: they've got it figured out. And to be clear, this
Speaker 1: walleye rearing facility doesn't exist yet. They're still in the
Speaker 1: funding phase and grants phase, planning phase, but it is
Speaker 1: chugging along and the company has actually hired a gent
Speaker 1: named Gregory Fisher, who was was kind of the top
Speaker 1: dog at the aquaculture facility at the University of Wisconsin
Speaker 1: Stevens Point, and according to this story, he has essentially
Speaker 1: figured out how to rear market size walleyes in an
Speaker 1: indoor recirculating aquaculture system. His team has has proven that
Speaker 1: it could be done with broodstock, and I get the
Speaker 1: impression that there's some trade secret here, like there's a
Speaker 1: lot of details about the specifics of how he's figured
Speaker 1: that out left out of the story. However, the thing
Speaker 1: to keep in mind is proving it's feasible is not
Speaker 1: the same as scaling it up to a point where
Speaker 1: it's economical. Right, So to make it economical, you've got
Speaker 1: to produce loads and loads of walleye so that you
Speaker 1: make the cost of goods to restaurants and markets comparable
Speaker 1: to buying uh, you know, imported wild colt walleye or
Speaker 1: wherever else you get it. Uh And Bluewater is confident
Speaker 1: that that they'll get there, but it's really yet to
Speaker 1: be seen. And I think one of the interesting things
Speaker 1: about this is, you know, you called it America's fish.
Speaker 1: It's easy to forget how many people have never had
Speaker 1: delicious walleye because in a lot of cases, if you're
Speaker 1: not an angler catching your own, it's not something that
Speaker 1: you that you get your hands on very easily. Um.
Speaker 1: But but so many anglers target them, and you and
Speaker 1: I tend to run with fishy people were fishy people listening.
Speaker 1: Now that you sort of forget that. And it's very
Speaker 1: similar to stripe bess on the East coast. It's not
Speaker 1: easy to find legally harvested, you know, saltwater pure strange
Speaker 1: striper on a menure in a fish market. So many
Speaker 1: people have never tasted that. But because I fish for
Speaker 1: in my whole life, this it's it's it's not weird,
Speaker 1: and I'd be curious to see if wall anglers think,
Speaker 1: if this happens, if blue Water can achieve this um,
Speaker 1: if the fishes is good, because it's it's it's you know, common,
Speaker 1: the common non angling consumer won't really know the difference.
Speaker 1: But even here, you can buy what's labeled as stripe
Speaker 1: bass in a fish market, but it's it's sneaky wordplay
Speaker 1: because it's hybrid farm raised striper guarantee side by side
Speaker 1: with the real deal. It's not as good but same,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't exactly. And this whole operation, if you're
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with aquaculture, it's it's a circulating system. So they'll
Speaker 1: be growing wall eyes to market size, but also a
Speaker 1: year round growing lettuce and strawberries and all kinds of
Speaker 1: other things with with the wastewater that filters through and
Speaker 1: grows vegetables. Um, it could, it could be pretty revolutionary
Speaker 1: if they can get it done. Well. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm i'd say cautiously optimistic with the limited information
Speaker 1: I have. UM, I don't this is not a useful comment.
Speaker 1: But you're in Minnesota. Why would you name yourselves blue water?
Speaker 1: Like that just doesn't make any sense to me. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know of any blue water in Minnesota.
Speaker 1: But anyway, maybe it just it sounds good if you're
Speaker 1: in the fish farming game blue wall. Yeah, and we'll we'll,
Speaker 1: time will, time will tell if it works. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, while there's still commercial fishing
Speaker 1: on the Canadian side of like the Great Lakes and
Speaker 1: things like that, I mean, the fact that it's not
Speaker 1: really happening to on a grand scale on on our
Speaker 1: side anymore really speaks to why we have such incredible
Speaker 1: walleye fisheries in the Great Lakes. So there's plenty out
Speaker 1: there to be caught for you to take home and
Speaker 1: cook up. But if we were commercially fishing for him
Speaker 1: to get the amount that we needed to supply restaurants
Speaker 1: and things. You know, Walleye fishing wouldn't be nearly as
Speaker 1: good on this side, So this does have value in
Speaker 1: terms of sustainable fisheries. And uh, maybe there'll be a
Speaker 1: lot more Walleyes down the road in fish markets. We
Speaker 1: shall see. You are definitely still eligible for a win
Speaker 1: for your reporting. Phil still has to pick somebody, and
Speaker 1: I think after this this round of news, I could
Speaker 1: certainly use a stiff drink to wash all this info down.
Speaker 1: So we'll hear from Phil and then we'll do a
Speaker 1: little that's my bar, Miles. You fell on the Caviare
Speaker 1: grenade this week so that Joe Sirmellie could be crowned
Speaker 1: the winner, and I'm sure he appreciates it. This whole
Speaker 1: Asian carp rebranding thing is all very amusing to me.
Speaker 1: Like it's Ali Shedy and the Breakfast Club or Olivia
Speaker 1: Newton John in Greece. The car will take off its
Speaker 1: glasses and let its hair down and we'll realize that
Speaker 1: it was hot the whole time. But as far as
Speaker 1: a rebranding goes, this feels less like Ziggy Stardust and
Speaker 1: more like Chris Gaines. People say you stink you, Garth
Speaker 1: Brooks fish you. But I see you, and you know what,
Speaker 1: I love you just the way you are best. God
Speaker 1: damn bar tender from tim buck to to Portland, Maine,
Speaker 1: the Portland argument for that matter. Okay, we've got a dandy.
Speaker 1: That's my bar submission for you guys, courtesy of Brad
Speaker 1: shoots you. I hope I said that right. And Brad,
Speaker 1: let me tell you what, man, I love when a
Speaker 1: part of what makes a bar great is a character
Speaker 1: at that bar, like I love the cheersy aspect of
Speaker 1: this entry. And today we are going to Leona was Anson.
Speaker 1: The Wisconsin people probably gonna tell me I said that
Speaker 1: wrong too, but it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. We're
Speaker 1: going We're going there to Johnny's Resort on the shore
Speaker 1: of Wabbican Lake. I'm sure I said that wrong too.
Speaker 1: Just send me a note. It's fine anyway, Brad Rites
Speaker 1: open in ninety seven by John sr and still run
Speaker 1: today by his son Johnny Muskie Ashton Brenner. Johnny's Resort
Speaker 1: stands in a category all by itself when it comes
Speaker 1: to fishing bars. You can pop into the resort in
Speaker 1: the morning, rent a boat with a full tank of
Speaker 1: gas for only fifty dollars, and head out for a
Speaker 1: full day of muskie fishing on some of the best
Speaker 1: water Northeast Wisconsin has to offer. When your day is done,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to stop in for what is easily
Speaker 1: the best and only frozen pizza on the lake, and
Speaker 1: be sure to get your name up on the wall
Speaker 1: of honor if you were successful in catching a muskie.
Speaker 1: Johnny keeps a record of all muskies over thirty two
Speaker 1: inches caught in a year. That is rad But I
Speaker 1: do I just need to stop for one second. I
Speaker 1: just gotta just to comment and say, in my East
Speaker 1: Side world, the words best and frozen do not belong
Speaker 1: in the same sentence when discussing pizza. Like even the
Speaker 1: dives here, they make their own. Sometimes it sucks, but
Speaker 1: they make their own. Um. But I look, I do
Speaker 1: understand the frozen bar pie is such a Midwest thing,
Speaker 1: and even me like the pizza snot that I am
Speaker 1: will admit that if I had to classify the finest
Speaker 1: frozen pizzas have ever had the finest on the market,
Speaker 1: they would be Hedges, which is from Minnesota, and Jack's
Speaker 1: which is in fact from Wisconsin. I I appreciate that
Speaker 1: clarification and that you were willing to go there, But
Speaker 1: I gotta say, the whole Northeast pizza thing is is overrated.
Speaker 1: It is maybe so. I all right, thirty years ago, right,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe thirty years ago, when the rest of the
Speaker 1: country just had Pizza Huton Dominoes, there was a legitimate
Speaker 1: argument that, you know, oh, only get good pizza the Northeast,
Speaker 1: but now you can't get good pizza pretty much anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I say this having eaten at both Grimaldi's and
Speaker 1: Juliana's in Brooklyn. They're both very good, But are they
Speaker 1: the end all be all of pizza. I No, I
Speaker 1: do not think so. Mhm. I mean, that's fine, you're
Speaker 1: trying to get me to engage here, but I find
Speaker 1: it sometimes it's just easier to let people that don't
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about just have their moment, like
Speaker 1: we don't have the time. If I wanted to take
Speaker 1: a shot, though, I'd say, oh, Grimaldi's and Juliana's. Someone
Speaker 1: watches a lot of that Food Paradise show and is
Speaker 1: a tourist. The real Brooklyn people are not at either
Speaker 1: of those places. There at the real joint anyway, enough
Speaker 1: about that, fair enough, fair enough, I'm I'm wading into
Speaker 1: water that's deeper than my waiters. Right now, Back to Brad,
Speaker 1: who really is the focus of this. Yeah, we're being jerks,
Speaker 1: Brad says in his email, be sure to visit with Johnny,
Speaker 1: ask him to tell you some tales of his youth
Speaker 1: growing up on the lake. Asked to see his dad's
Speaker 1: old muskie gun. How else would you dispatch a muskie
Speaker 1: before bringing it in the boat, Or maybe asked to
Speaker 1: see the bucktails Johnny tied with his own beard hair,
Speaker 1: and certainly spend some time looking out of the collection
Speaker 1: of lures and mounts from a different era of musky fishing.
Speaker 1: Above all else, you must must sell a rust a
Speaker 1: successful day muskie fishing, or drown a shitty one with
Speaker 1: the bars signature. Drink the crowd bomb, the crowd bomb. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's not racist. That's not racist. Till you're no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we are talking sour kraut um. So ready for this,
Speaker 1: because here's how you make it right, Brad says. In
Speaker 1: a bomb cup, you know the plastic cups with a
Speaker 1: shot glass in the middle, surrounded by a second larger cup,
Speaker 1: fill the shot glass with yeager, then fill the outside
Speaker 1: with And this next part is very important, he says.
Speaker 1: Warm Frank's sour kraut juice opened with a rusty can opener,
Speaker 1: he says. He says, Johnny himself poured me one to
Speaker 1: celebrate my first fly Rod musky, and I can say
Speaker 1: from the experience they are just as delicious as they sound.
Speaker 1: And I guess, Brad if I stuck my first fly
Speaker 1: Rod muskie there, and it was a good one, like
Speaker 1: like over forty, not a little tweezer, I I slam that,
Speaker 1: but uh, it really sounds awful, like it really said,
Speaker 1: it sounds terrible. Plus, I'm gonna just go ahead and
Speaker 1: say my yeager days are kind of over, and my
Speaker 1: Soco days are even further behind me, I think than
Speaker 1: my my yeager days. Smart smart choices, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like the crowd juice itself, that doesn't
Speaker 1: turn me off, like I could see adding maybe a
Speaker 1: spritz of that to a bloody or a Caesar, but
Speaker 1: croud juice and yeager in my head, that's like fish
Speaker 1: sauce on Starburst or something like that. Yeah, that that
Speaker 1: that sounds pretty terrible, and I'm gonna I'm gonna agree.
Speaker 1: It's it's not the Crouch juice, It's it's the Yeager.
Speaker 1: But though the drink sounds awful, the bar does not.
Speaker 1: If I gotta drink, if I if I am absolutely
Speaker 1: forced to drink around of crowd bombs to get Johnny
Speaker 1: started telling musky stories that that is one bumb I'll
Speaker 1: fall on. I'll throw myself on that one. And you know, beard, bucktails,
Speaker 1: musky guns, vintage mounts. Come on, I'm in, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: freaking in on all that. I I checked out Johnny's
Speaker 1: website and uh, it's uh, it's spartan at best, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't appear to have been updated since two thousand eleven.
Speaker 1: But it does seem to confirm the legitimacy of this
Speaker 1: this magical place. So Brad is not just putting us
Speaker 1: on with some elaborate fantasy. Mm hmm. That's good to hear.
Speaker 1: Do not play with our emotions like that. But if
Speaker 1: you have a magical place that serves liquor you'd like
Speaker 1: to hear called out on the show, much like Brad,
Speaker 1: please write down a compelling story and send it to
Speaker 1: us at bent at the Mediator dot com. I I
Speaker 1: loved that one. It left me wanting on some details
Speaker 1: because I want to know more about the muskie gun. Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean, was this was it twenty two? I have questions?
Speaker 1: There are lingering questions, so do I man? I I know, yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly was it a pistol? A shotgun? But I don't know? Man?
Speaker 1: In the in the old school shark fishing scene, at
Speaker 1: least out here, most guys did not rely on a pistol,
Speaker 1: you know, because you had to be too accurate and
Speaker 1: too much could go wrong, like shooting a hole in
Speaker 1: the boat. So the old heads around here they often
Speaker 1: went with the with a single shot for ten. The
Speaker 1: hell was that? That was my fault that I did
Speaker 1: not authorize this sticking in of that? What was that?
Speaker 1: That was my friends? I hope you noticed. That was
Speaker 1: Robert L. Keene and I had to get one more
Speaker 1: song reference in this episode. I just was we were
Speaker 1: on a roll anyway. It sounds like it sounds like
Speaker 1: back to the Bar Johnny Us is as much a
Speaker 1: museum as it is actually a bar or resort, and
Speaker 1: they might even have one particular classic lure hanging on
Speaker 1: the wall there that's been on my mind lately. In
Speaker 1: this week's end of the line, I'm taking a deep
Speaker 1: dive into a lure that somehow escaped both Joe and
Speaker 1: me for most of our lives, despite it being influential,
Speaker 1: groundbreaking and catching lots of big baths. So so right
Speaker 1: along with me as I give props to the devil. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not loud enough. I know Joe covered a classic
Speaker 1: propeller bait just a few weeks ago when he talked
Speaker 1: about getting all puky in the Amazon pulling wood shoppers
Speaker 1: for peacocks. But but I feel like I need to
Speaker 1: revisit this genre. The main reason comes from listener Ryan Bromberger,
Speaker 1: who runs the website Access the Wild and recently sent
Speaker 1: us a care package that included a couple of vintage
Speaker 1: lures from his great grandfather's tackle box. Now, I don't
Speaker 1: actually know what compelled Ryan to send such family riches
Speaker 1: to a couple of degenerates like us, but I am
Speaker 1: deeply grateful and humbled. One of the lures that Ryan
Speaker 1: sent along is a long cylindrical wooden heart bait with
Speaker 1: propellers in the four and the aft, superficially similar to
Speaker 1: the wood shopper, Joe described, as well as a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of other prop baits that have been sold over
Speaker 1: the years. But as I have come to learn, this
Speaker 1: one's different. This lure has captivated me ever since it
Speaker 1: arrived at my house, and I've spent way too much
Speaker 1: time digging into the backstory. To be totally honest, I'd
Speaker 1: never heard of this lure, and neither had Joe. At
Speaker 1: first glance, I just thought it was one of many
Speaker 1: short lived baits from the late twentieth century, something produced
Speaker 1: for a couple of years that never took off. But
Speaker 1: I was wrong. It's called a Devil's Horse spelled d
Speaker 1: E v e L for reasons I'll explain in a minute,
Speaker 1: and it was manufactured by the Smithwick Lure Company. Smithwick
Speaker 1: is probably best known for their road jerk baits, which
Speaker 1: Joe covered in an early episode of the show, but
Speaker 1: though the Rogue maybe the bait that is best known,
Speaker 1: it wasn't the lure that launched the company, or even
Speaker 1: their most groundbreaking design. That was the Devil's Horse. Jack K.
Speaker 1: Smithwick was an office supplies salesman in post World War
Speaker 1: Two Shrie of Port Louisiana, which might sound like a bland,
Speaker 1: dead end job, but it gave Smithwick access to the
Speaker 1: heads of some of the largest companies in the South.
Speaker 1: In the early nineteen forties, he started carving lures out
Speaker 1: of broom handles, much to the irritation of his wife's
Speaker 1: supposedly who started hiding her brooms. In ninety six, Smithwick
Speaker 1: designed and fished the first prototypes of what would later
Speaker 1: become the Devil's Horse. A couple of years later, once
Speaker 1: he knew it was onto something, he started giving out
Speaker 1: sample lures to his biggest clients. At that time, just
Speaker 1: about every serious businessman in the South fished for bass.
Speaker 1: Pretty soon those clients were calling him for more than
Speaker 1: just office supplies. They wanted lures, and we're willing to
Speaker 1: pay for them. In nine he quit the office supplies business,
Speaker 1: bought a lathe from Sears, hired some help, and started
Speaker 1: making lures full time from his home. Even after going
Speaker 1: in full time and producing thirty thousand devils Horses in
Speaker 1: the first year, demand vastly outstripped his production capacity, which
Speaker 1: gave the lures an even greater appeal. For the first decade,
Speaker 1: the bates were something of a regional secret, popular in Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and Florida, and at that time they were branded with
Speaker 1: the word devil like I said, misspelled with two ease.
Speaker 1: Most sources claim that misspelling to have been intentional, a
Speaker 1: marketing decision made due to concern that buyers wouldn't purchase
Speaker 1: a lure with the word devil on it during those
Speaker 1: more pious times. But in an interview with the writer
Speaker 1: Michael Bacon, Smithwick's son Jack Jr. Claimed Hell, Dad just
Speaker 1: couldn't spell either way. In nineteen sixty three, the bait
Speaker 1: was officially renamed the Devil's Horse with an Eye, just
Speaker 1: as the Smithwick brand began to gain national traction. By then,
Speaker 1: they had a whole line of Devil's Horse style stick
Speaker 1: bait offshoots in different sizes, weights, and body shapes. Throughout
Speaker 1: the sixties, outdoor writers pen tails of riding the Devil's
Speaker 1: Horse and catching bass all over the country. In nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty nine, Smithwick released the Robe Jerk bait, and that
Speaker 1: seems to have been the turning point when the Devil's
Speaker 1: Horse began to fade in the background. A couple of
Speaker 1: years later, Smithwick started making rubber worms, spinners, weights, and
Speaker 1: crank baits, and somewhere in this period the company seems
Speaker 1: to have stopped riding the horse that brown them. Though
Speaker 1: the Devil's Horse never went out of production, it faded
Speaker 1: into the background, at least in certain parts of the country,
Speaker 1: which is probably why Joe and I, a couple of
Speaker 1: lifelong anglers who came of age in the eighties and
Speaker 1: nineties in the Northeast and West, had never heard of
Speaker 1: this bait. But that's not the end of the story.
Speaker 1: Just because Joe and I weren't hipped to the horse
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that other people stopped fishing them, or that
Speaker 1: they stopped catching fish. Solid chance that any Southern bass
Speaker 1: heads listen to this are hollering at their phones or
Speaker 1: radios right now and calling me a complete moron, because
Speaker 1: across those same states where the horse first gained popularity,
Speaker 1: it never really fell out of fashion. It has quietly
Speaker 1: remained a staple top water lure for big bass in
Speaker 1: shallow water, even among some of the top pros. Unlike
Speaker 1: the wood shopper and other prop baits, the horse supposedly
Speaker 1: shines brightest when fished slowly in close proximity to weedy
Speaker 1: cover instead of retrieving it with aggressive rips and jerks
Speaker 1: like Joe described with the wood shopper, or burning it
Speaker 1: on the top like a buzz bait. Folks in the
Speaker 1: No fish the horse as a finesse lure, casting it
Speaker 1: tight to cover, letting it sit for several seconds, and
Speaker 1: working it painfully slow short twitches followed by long pauses.
Speaker 1: And here's where I feel like the story of the
Speaker 1: Horse really comes full circle. If you're deep in the
Speaker 1: bass fishing scene, you've probably heard about spy baiting or
Speaker 1: spin baiting, a technical finesse presentation for highly pressured finicky bass.
Speaker 1: Developed in Japan in the mid two thousands, it became
Speaker 1: the hot new thing in the hardcore bass world about
Speaker 1: a decade ago. Spy Baits are long, cylindrical bait fish
Speaker 1: shaped lures propellers in the front and the aft. Sound familiar, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just like the Devil's Horse, But hold up, spy baits sink,
Speaker 1: and the Devil's Horse is known as the top water.
Speaker 1: Except the original horse was actually a subsurface lure, and
Speaker 1: smith Wick continued to produce various sinking models for many
Speaker 1: years after. Unfortunately, spy baiting wasn't a thing back then,
Speaker 1: and because the top water models outsold the sub service versions,
Speaker 1: the original design eventually fell out of production. The only
Speaker 1: horses made today are floaters, and that's kind of a shame.
Speaker 1: Smithwick was actually designing and fishing the hottest new lure
Speaker 1: for the smartest, most technical bass. He just did it
Speaker 1: about sixty years too early. So that's all the time
Speaker 1: we have this week. And what you've just experienced was
Speaker 1: the true story, the true story of two complete fish
Speaker 1: bumps picked to live in a podcast and have their
Speaker 1: bullshit taped to find out what happens when a salty
Speaker 1: girl from the vineyard, a washed up bike messenger, and
Speaker 1: a guy who's dead used to throw lead a musky heads.
Speaker 1: Stop being polite and start getting real serious about reminding
Speaker 1: you do please keep those comments, questions, concerns, bar nominations,
Speaker 1: sale bin items, awkward photos and all that John coming
Speaker 1: to Bent at the meat Eater dot com. We love,
Speaker 1: love hearing from all of you, and don't forget we've
Speaker 1: always got eyes on those degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags.
Speaker 1: Make us laugh, cry or barf with your posts and
Speaker 1: we might set the sticker pack at you. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: if you're struggling to figure out what to say to
Speaker 1: us when you email our post. Just ask yourself to
Speaker 1: exa kind of got your phone stop