1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: What was that top order? John? Mike, he was throwing 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: over at FDR Park for them largemouth. John asked to 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: see his dad's old musky gun. How else would you 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: dispatch of musky before bringing it in the boat? If 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: you could fish with any muppet, which one would it be? 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: The guy that was in the trash can? Example? Where's Puck? 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: Remember Puck from the real world? Whatever happened to Puck? 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: Good morning, degenerate Anglers, and welcome to Ben, the fishing 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: podcast that once got booted off an episode of MTVS 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: lip Service for not knowing the words to how do 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: You Talk to an Angel? I'm Joe Surmellie. I'm Miles Nulty. 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: And wasn't that like the theme song to Dawson's Creek? No, No, 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: it was not. And you know what did you know 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: it Wasn't you know that? You know? That asked rhetorical question? 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: There is. It's actually more on point than you realize, though, 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: because the guy who's sang how do you Talk to 17 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: an Angel? Actually did play Tory Spelling's boyfriend on Beverly 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: Hills One. Oh really? How about yeah? How about that? 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: You're dude, You're like a nineties media Savante. I hate that. 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: I know that, but I do we ever get to 21 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: play bar trivia again. I'm on your team. I'm calling Dibbs. 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: We're on the same team. And you're right. That was 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: a snide comment. That was being a jerk. But to 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: get back to where I think you were trying to 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: lead us in this conversation, Yes, I do remember MTVS 26 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: Lip Service and and if memory serves, it was a 27 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: cringeworthy lip syncing competition judged by B list celebrities exactly exactly, 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: And I watched that show religiously back in the day. 29 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: And I feel like in that era in the early 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: to mid nineties, you'd come home from school and that 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: was always what was on, Like like if you just 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: put on MTV in the afternoon, that's what was on. 33 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: And I watched it like crazy, Um, What's Spinderella was 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: the DJ Salt Pepper, So yeah, from Salton Pepper. It 35 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: was the bomb because she'd throw Jane's addiction at some 36 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: sorority girl like and it was glorious because the same 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: girl she'd be all over that ASA bass track, you know, 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: like really feeling herself and proven. But then like Perry 39 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Farrell comes in and it's instant train wreck. Just it 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: just falls apart. And then these poor these poor people 41 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: would have to have their their performance judged by like 42 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: Gilbert Godfrey on bottom Mchanneth Kilbert. How did they move 43 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: for you? They moved, well, good movement. What do you 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: give him? Man? How deep the lip service rabbit hole 45 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: did you did you fall to do this bit? It 46 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: was large, it was large and deep. It was large, 47 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: and to be honest, I'm gonna tell you what, man, 48 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't even the lip service footage that that like 49 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: took me back and tickled me most. But the commercials 50 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: in the episodes I watched, like some of them had 51 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: the old commercials still in there, like you know what 52 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean, Like listen to this, you do you remember 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: cinemburst gum. These dots indicated explosive personality play a crystical 54 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: suitable flavor crystal. Yes, I had completely block those from 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: my memory, I think, or I don't know. Maybe maybe 56 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: whatever toxic chemicals those were made out were actually responsible 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: for my lack of short term memory. I don't know, 58 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, but they definitely couldn't have been good 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: for probably be bad. Uh. This might also be a 60 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: rhetorical question, what happened to that dude who hosted lip Service? Oh, 61 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: I don't even know his name? Who knows? I don't 62 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: who knows John something? I think I don't know John j. 63 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: It was definitely a j word. Uh. And I mean 64 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: there's that guy. I feel like what there? I feel 65 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: like there's a whole host of twentysomethings who thought that 66 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: getting on MTV was gonna like jump start their careers. 67 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: And now I have no idea what happened to them? Uh, 68 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: where's example, where's Puck? Remember Puck from the real World? 69 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: Whatever happened to Puck? Holyesh? Yet Puck, Puck was man, 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: Puck was the best. Thank you for Oh my god, 71 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: I forgot about though. I will say, Puck, if you're listening, like, 72 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: we'd love to have you on Puck And normally, like 73 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: we say stuff like that, and it's a joke because 74 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: these people it's not gonna happen. These people aren't going 75 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: to come on our show. But it's not outside the 76 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: Roman possibility. We may actually hear from Puck because I'm 77 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: assuming at this point his career as a bike messenger 78 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: has dried up. He's probably Puck's probably not doing a 79 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: whole lot these days. I really hope we don't hear 80 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: from him. I'll just say, come on, yeah, no, I 81 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: get it. You you think it would be funny. I'm 82 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: I would vote in a on Puck, and I'm not 83 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: really worried about it. If I'm being honest, I'm pretty 84 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: sure Puck didn't take up fishing all right. Now, moving on, 85 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: That's that's probably enough nineties pop culture for one intro. 86 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: Let's get into uh, let's get into our real world. Here, 87 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: this this real world. We're kicking things off this week 88 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: with a badass, salty East Coast fly fishing guide who's 89 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: probably too young to have caught any of those references, 90 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: but all right, we like her anyway. Uh. In this 91 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: week's covering Water segment, we're making like the pilots and 92 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: wings a little more for you. But instead of trying 93 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: to fly to Nantucket, we're landing on Martha's vineyard to 94 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: rapid fire, idiotic questions at Captain Abbey Schuster, I'm going 95 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: can hold it? Joining us today we have Massachusetts based guide, 96 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: outfitter and shop owner, Captain Abbey Schuster. What's going on? Abbey? Hey? 97 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: How are you? Thanks? For having me. Great to have 98 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: you here, even if you're on on the wrong side 99 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: of the country, I still still appreciate she's on my 100 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: side of the country, Okay, the right coast. So so 101 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: as I was, as I was trying to prepare for this, 102 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: like I was, I was, I was working on figuring 103 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: out how to somehow quickly sum up the trajectory of 104 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: your career. And I'm not sure if I got it right. 105 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: You're born out east, and then you came to Montana 106 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: for college and started guiding around Missoula. Then then you 107 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: went over and started guiding in Washington and Alaska, and 108 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: then you went back east to start up your your 109 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: outfitting operations. Is that all correct? Yep, that's right? And 110 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: is that is that because you finally couldn't stand not 111 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: having a good piece of pizza anymore? Actually it was 112 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: part of it. You're probably picking up on something that 113 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: you may or may not know, and which is that 114 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: Joe and I are perpetually locked in this East versus 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: West feud and uh, and that's fact that you went 116 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: back there kind of tells me that you're on his side. 117 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm holding that against you a little bit. 118 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 1: But I'll get over it tries and finally I said, 119 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: I could be East Coaster again. Party, I'm not. I'm 120 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: not arguing that. I just you know, I'm partial to 121 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: Montana myself. Part of my heart there fair enough. I'm 122 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: gonna leave that alone because we don't need to. We 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: don't need to dive into that whole East West. I 124 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: think that's been covered more than enough. Another thing I 125 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: found out about you. You are the only charter captain 126 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: that I know who's also a yoga instructor. Alright, so 127 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: just real quick, real quick, Like, I'm very familiar with 128 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 1: the process of getting licensed as a captain because because 129 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: I've done it. But is there is there like a 130 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: formal process for for getting oneself recognized as a yoga instructor? 131 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: Is it just like being a professional fly persian gut 132 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: on Instagram? Okay, so what does that mean? Like, what 133 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: does it mean to be You can't just like I 134 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: can't just tomorrow call myself a yoga instructor I hope 135 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: not offense. No, you have to do like two hours 136 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: of school or five hours of school, and then you're 137 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: two our teacher, five teacher and so it's usually like 138 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: mine was nine months for of like twice a month 139 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: for the whole weekend. So it's harder than becoming a captain, 140 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: is what you're saying. It's longer, but the test way easier. 141 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: Tests are hard. They're really hard. I know, I was 142 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: surprised how hard they were. I can spend too much 143 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: time on this, but I feel like I feel like 144 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna save my stupid questions for the actual reason 145 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: you're here. Uh. We asked you onto the show today 146 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: to take part in covering Water, which is the rapid 147 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: fire interview segment we do instead of bothering to conduct 148 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: proper interviews. And here's how it works. Joe is gonna 149 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: put two minutes on the clock and then he and 150 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: I are gonna rapid fire questions at you. Your goal 151 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: is to get through as many as possible in those 152 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: two minutes, which means you can't think about your answers. 153 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: You just gotta blurt out whatever comes to that. But 154 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: in the spirit of fairness, after those two minutes are up, 155 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: we will give you one minute to expand and elaborate 156 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: on whichever answer you think was most interesting or potentially 157 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: damaging to your career. Pick the career ender and you can. 158 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: You have one minute to people love this. All our 159 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: guests are like, what a great segment? All right? You 160 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: ready to go? All right? Two minutes starts now we're 161 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: doing more yoga. Make me a less shitty spay caster. Yes, 162 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: what's the most painful spot you've ever been? Hooked? My stomach? 163 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: Your least least favorite fish to target? Um? Sea robin ah? 164 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: Interesting one? Which beer is honestly truly better Bad Martha 165 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: or Cisco? Cisco? Whoa, that's the Nantucket beer gunheads? I 166 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: should explain that Rocky Mountain oysters or whole belly clams? 167 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: Whole belly clams? What gets you more excited? The worm 168 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: hatch or the squid run? Which fish are stupider stripers 169 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: busting a bait pile or cutthroats chewing on katas cut 170 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: the cape cod canal? I love it? Or screw that 171 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: ship show? Screwed up? Sh chew? Nice? Thank you? Who's 172 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: the greatest angler of all time? Oh? My grandmother is 173 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: pretty good. That's a great, excellent, great beat. The best 174 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: fish to sitecast two in the entire world is iron 175 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: gar or vinyasa? I don't even know, I don't have 176 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: anything there. The movie you quote most often? Is I'm 177 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: really bad at quoting movies. Okay, so not really. The 178 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: species you've never caught, the highest on your list peacock, bass, okay, clouser, minnows, 179 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: chartruss over white or pink over white if you could 180 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: only use one for the rest of your life, pink 181 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: favorite excellent poppers or stick baits. If you could fish 182 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: with any muppet, which one would it be? Oh, that's 183 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: a good one. Maybe the guy that lives in the 184 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: trash can that. No, that's Oscar, but it's a perfect 185 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: color for it. We'll have to get clarification whether Oscar 186 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: is a muppet. I don't think so. I don't think 187 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: that was a fun one, all right, so I will. 188 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: I am now putting one minute on the clock, and 189 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: you can you can elaborate, Abbey on any one of 190 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: those answers that you would like. Your time starts now. Okay, 191 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: the beer question, I feel like I have to go 192 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: back to that because we have this little rival between 193 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard. I like Martha's. I 194 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: like that Martha's you know my people, but I just 195 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: like the taste of Let's go better. I have to 196 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: say I really do, man, you pick the one that 197 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: is like saving your local street credit. I appreciate you. Know, 198 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: I would be the shop and not run another year. 199 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: And we're right down the road, so I have a 200 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: protection that here. Oh man, I wish I had anything 201 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: to say about this, because I don't know either of 202 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: those beers or anything about this present ever, look full disclosure. 203 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: When I was coming up with questions, I wanted to 204 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: come up with some fun ones, so I reached out 205 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: to a buddy of mine who's up there it works 206 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: for on the water, and I was like, dude, what's 207 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: a good beer question for Abby? And he's like, she's 208 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: on the vineyard right, and he's like, yeah, so bad 209 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: Martha or Cisco. That's the two rival that's the two 210 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: rival beers. Yeah, they do the island's rival. You should 211 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: see it. It's crazy. I've never been to Nantucket, only 212 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: Martha's Vineyard, but that was for a Jaws tour, sadly 213 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: not to fish. And that that's dorky and I'm sorry 214 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: I said it, but that's what I've been there for. 215 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: I've only been to Nantucket one to fish around there 216 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: all the time, like actually stepped foot on the Island twice, 217 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: yet they have the better local brew. Yeah, I stopped, 218 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: got a beer hang out. I feel like I feel 219 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: like we've thrown a regional gauntlet here on Bent and 220 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: this will only be settled with the with the fishing throwdown. 221 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: Hopefully Joe can get up there and do that and 222 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: help you out with that. Abby, thanks for coming. We 223 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: really appreciate having you. Thank you so much. I'll tell 224 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: you why, man. I got such a kick out of 225 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: Abby using her one minute of clarification time to explain 226 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: why the rival Islands microbrew is better than her Islands micros. 227 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: Like that was gutsy if you think about it, like 228 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: to to just just you know, she just went for 229 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: it and was honest. But I admire her honesty so much. 230 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: And I hope nobody's you know, like burning cases of 231 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: Cisco on the steps at the shop right now. Terrible. 232 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: I hope that's not the case either. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, 233 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna think better of humanity and guess everyone took 234 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: it and stride uh. And you know, I think that 235 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: that's part of why I and other people like Abby. 236 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: She's she's straight up, man. She calls it like she 237 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: sees it. Yeah, yeah, And I don't know anything about 238 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: that fishery out there, so I don't know what you 239 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: guys were talking about with the Cape Cod Canal, but 240 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: after you outed it as a ship show, I want 241 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: to know more interesting. Yeah. Yeah, we could spend hours 242 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: picking that apart. And for the record, I've never actually 243 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: fished there, but I want to because I enjoy a 244 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: good ship show, you know, sometimes like it's just part 245 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: of the Northeast scene, but basically it's shoulder to shoulder 246 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: dudes in season, and like many places in the Northeast, 247 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, it gets crowded, and some people consider catching 248 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: a big straper there kind of half a victory, you know, 249 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: because it's really easy access and the fish are kind 250 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: of corralled and and somebody with relatively little knowledge can 251 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: can stick a forty pounder there, just like walk up 252 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: and sweat pants and do it. But then it's that 253 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: argument of does that fish count as much as the 254 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: forty You know, a guy caught by putting on a 255 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: wet suit and swimming to a rock in the middle 256 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: of the night after months of noting the tides and 257 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: following the migration, So it's kind of you it as 258 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: like the easy place to get your big bass. But 259 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: I still want to fish there, so yeah, I mean, 260 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: I don't think I can. I can weigh on that. 261 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: If we're talking about, you know, big trout in the 262 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: Spring Creek versus land of the giants out here, I could, 263 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: I could talk about that, but I'm I'm I don't 264 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: know if if we're if you're asking me the question, 265 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: does that count? I don't know. I think the guy 266 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: doing the crazy stuff in the middle of the night 267 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: counts more. I would I would pick that one has 268 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: more valid, you know, I definitely. I mean, in my 269 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: youth around here, I almost killed myself a couple of 270 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: times just trying to catch twenty and shrout. I have 271 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: no idea what I would have done if I had 272 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: access to forty pounds stripers, Like, I don't know, I 273 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: would have done something like I did for the time 274 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: when I discovered stripers. Yeah, and like in the past, 275 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: when we've been swapping fishing stories, you've told me about 276 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: folks you know who get like fully suited up in 277 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: heavywet suits and swim rough seas at night to deep 278 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: water rocks, and they like they tow all their gear 279 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: behind them right, just to get a shutterproof stuff like 280 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, that's what all those vans stalls are for 281 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: their waterproof lash it to themselves and kick backwards. Man, 282 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: None for me, thanks, But I know the guys who 283 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: do this, I'm intrigued by that, Like, yeah, that is 284 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: one of them. And we can added to a whole 285 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: list of things in the Northeast that I just don't 286 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: know much about, but I want to know more about it, 287 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: like I'm I'm, I'm interested in that. And as we 288 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: do so often, we get on these topics about Western 289 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: stuff and Northeastern stuff and and by my request, this week, 290 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: Joe is gonna teach us a lot more about a 291 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: very niche Northeast word with hip hop roots in the 292 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: weekly word. Webster's Dictionary defines fish as this week's word 293 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: is John. That's j A w N. And it's a 294 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: word that really has nothing to do with fishing, but 295 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: at the same time could technically have everything to do 296 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: with fishing. And the only reason I'm even doing this 297 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: John is because I said the word John in another episode, 298 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: and Miles, being the word smith that he is, was 299 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: so intrigued by my John he had to know more 300 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: about the John. John is a slang term that originated 301 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, at least mostly and we'll get to that, 302 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: and is used so much even in Philly's surrounding PA 303 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: and New Jersey suburbs, that it often appears in advertising. 304 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: McDonald's even got down on that John, with billboards featuring 305 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: nothing but a sausage McMuffin and the words that's my John. 306 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: Visit Philly dot COM's billboards read there's no John like 307 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: Home and vitamin water plaster the area with billboards that 308 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: said Vitamins electrolytes, get that John. So what is this John? Well? 309 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: According to that Oxford Dictionary, john john refers to a thing, place, person, 310 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: or event that one need not or cannot give a 311 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: specific name to. So basically, John can be used to 312 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: replace absolutely any now anyone at all in its singular 313 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: or plural form. As an example, I might say, what 314 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: was that top order John, Mike, he was thrown over 315 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: at FDR Park for them largemouth John. Or upon seeing 316 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: a giant flathead catfish swimming along the bank of the 317 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: School River, I might say, Yo, that's the biggest John 318 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: I ever seen in here, followed by yo, I'm retiring 319 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: my John with fifty pound, because that thirty pound John 320 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: ain't gonna be strong enough of a hook that John. Interestingly, 321 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: John can be pluralized with or without an S. Saying 322 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: let me get one of them John's when asking a 323 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: buddy for a fresh mintow out of the bucket is acceptable, 324 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: but more commonly, John is used to refer to multiple 325 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: things minus the S. As an example, when asking a 326 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: friend where he acquired multiple new striper plugs, you'd say, 327 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: where'd you get them? John? You might also say I 328 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: want to get into fly fishing, but there's so much 329 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: John to buy. Theories abound about John and where it 330 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: came from. In fact, John is such an intriguing word 331 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: because it can be used in so many ways that 332 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: linguists have spent years studying this John and tracing its origins. 333 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: All signs point to John being a derivative of joint. 334 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: Joint as a slang term rosen popularity in the American 335 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: South around the time of emancipation, bars and clubs that 336 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: served as safe havens for black Americans were called juke joints. 337 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: This eventually expanded into the labeling of somewhat sketchy places 338 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: as joints, which even further down the line translated to 339 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: any place you considered kind of underground, such as that 340 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: little pizza joint or burger joint you think only you 341 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: and your boys know about. Even though that John is 342 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: all over yelp, but some smart John believed John was 343 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: born in Philly. In one specifically, that year, hip hop 344 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: group Funky four plus one had a popular song called 345 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: That's the Joint, and it was one of the earliest 346 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: recorded hip hop tracks where the word joint was used 347 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: as a positive term to refer to something good or 348 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: something that you like. Linguist say, because the singers slightly 349 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: drew out the vows in the word joint and didn't 350 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: accentuate the t, Philadelphians either heard it as John or 351 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: sang it as John, ultimately solidifying the future of that John. 352 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: Take a listen what we just care miss? Just can't miss? 353 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: What we just miss? Beat like this? Did you hear it? 354 00:19:49,720 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: Let's listen one more time here. Whether you heard joint 355 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: or John, the mere mention of this song being the 356 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: origin of John infuriates many Philadelphians. Why because Funky four 357 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: plus one was from the Bronx, and even though most 358 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: linguists agreed. John technically came from Joint, which got popularized 359 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: as a catch all in New York hip hop culture. 360 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: Philly people just don't want to hear that John. That 361 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: John means too much to them. Now, if you're one 362 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: of them John that gets all mad about John coming 363 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: from them New York John, here's what I suggest. Head 364 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: out to the garage and grab your John and head 365 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: down to that John where you called all them John 366 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: last season. Cast out alive John under a bobber. Maybe 367 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: throw one of them Panther and Martin John's and just relax. 368 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: You got other John to worry about. No matter where 369 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: that John came from, it's a Philly John. Now, quick 370 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: follow up. Do you think that funky four plus one, 371 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: that that particular track was ever on lip service? Oh? 372 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Yeah, that would have been a death sentence. 373 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: It would have been these those those nineties kids would 374 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: have no idea, no idea. And also I think it's 375 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: funny because that song is from that era in hip hop, 376 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, like when one track was was twenty five 377 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: minutes long and like chron an entire week in somebody's life. 378 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: You know, my alarm went off at eight am. It 379 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: was Tuesday, I was tired, so I hit the snooze button. 380 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: Eight minutes later, my alarm went off again. When they 381 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: just get on the thing, that's like, we're gonna rock 382 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: this beat, gonna rock this peap, We're gonna rock this 383 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: and it would go on for five minutes. But I am, yeah, 384 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: sugar Hill, It's it's their style, no doubt. But I 385 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: am curious though, Like, listening to that, did you hear 386 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: Joint or John? Okay, so the first clip I heard Joint, 387 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: but the second clip I heard John. Yeah, So I 388 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: think I think with you like you can. I think 389 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: you can take that one either way, to be honest 390 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: with you, because because there are different parts of the 391 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: song that you sampled there and and in the first 392 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: one to me is clearly Joint and the second one 393 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: I hear the John. But before we get too far 394 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: away from it, I really did love everything about that 395 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: Weekly Word. I felt like you completely crushed that one 396 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: and took it, took it in a direction I didn't 397 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: think was gonna go. And I very deeply enjoyed it 398 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: as a fun one for sure, and it hit on 399 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: a lot of levels for me personally, and you got 400 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: me thinking like As I was listening to that, you 401 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: got me thinking about how how influential that particular Funky 402 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: four plus one track was, I mean, and then I 403 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: started thinking about all of its different references in hip hop. Right, 404 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: you got this one from eighty nine, Yeah Man, Beasts 405 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: for the Win on that fantastic track, fantastic album. If 406 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: you don't know Paul's boutique, you gotta. And then there's 407 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: this other one almost ten years later, this one from 408 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: Playing again. Now, who's that? I don't know that? Okay? 409 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: That was That was Black Eyed Peas back when Black 410 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: Eyed Peas did hip hop instead of pop, back before 411 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: Fergie was in it, and they were like they were 412 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: an actual legitimate hip hop I could go, I could 413 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: go on and on with us for a very long time. Uh, 414 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: and we won't. I'll leave it at those two because 415 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: I think they're good ones. But we've got our own 416 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: little linguistics rap battle to deal with. Here. It's time 417 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: for that fish news, John fish news. That escalated quickly, 418 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: all right, for we're getting the news here. I I 419 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: got a shout out this week. Have to shout out 420 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: listener Dustin doug Stad or Dogstad again again with the 421 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: names don't know. I'm not really sure. But he sent 422 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: us a video clip, right, and I know you've seen it. 423 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: I have, but before you get into it, the first 424 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: time he sent it to us, there was no information, 425 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: no context. It was just this really weird clip that 426 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: I looked at it and I went, I don't know 427 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: what's happening here, but I want to know, please tell 428 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: me the story. Well now, so now, yeah, so he came. 429 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: He came through with the follow up, and now we know, 430 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: and I've never seen anything like it, right, And it 431 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: almost makes me question how badly I actually want to 432 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: fish in New Zealand. Now I've always sort of dreamed 433 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: of it, And now I'm not so short. So we'll 434 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: do the short version because we got a lot to 435 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: get through today. But in the in this clip, Dustin's 436 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: fishing this this trout river in New Zealand and he 437 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: had caught himself like a really nice big rainbow that 438 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: he apparently decided he was going to take home for dinner, 439 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: so he bonked the fish. But then what he does 440 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: is he props his cell phone up on a rock 441 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: so he can get a little selfie video of his 442 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: big rainbow. And then he says, while he was shooting 443 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: that video, he realized that trout still had a little 444 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: life left in it, so he moved off camera. He 445 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: bonked it again, and then he reaches down to wash 446 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: the slime and blood off his hands. Now remember his 447 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: camera is still rolling propped on the rocks, so it's 448 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: like getting him in the corner of the frame, and 449 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this giant, like three four ft 450 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: eel latches onto his middle finger and he rips it 451 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: out of the water, still still holding onto his hand, 452 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: and just flings this giant eel just flings it. And 453 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: his reaction is priceless. Okay, but he had said an 454 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: email after the fact. You don't see this. But while 455 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: he's examining his bloody, chewed up finger, he looks down 456 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,479 Speaker 1: he notices they're there are four more of these giant 457 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 1: eels at his feet, just poised and staring at him, 458 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: ready to grab either a piece of trout meat or 459 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: or or his hand. I guess, and I posted this 460 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: on my Instagram earlier this week, but I'll drop it 461 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: in my story again today. But it's creepy and it 462 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 1: leaves me like clutching the hand bit because while I'm 463 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: fascinated by eels. I don't love the like they creep 464 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: me out when I catch them, big congress, I don't 465 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: like it. I don't like creep They're creepy. And uh, 466 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: I have fished that river the Dustin was on, actually, 467 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: and I will I can attest to the fact that 468 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: there are a lot of those freshwater eels swimming around 469 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: in New Zealand waters, like they're everywhere, But you tell 470 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: me you don't. You don't catch them on flies, but 471 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: like he and he dropped a blood any chunk of meat. Like. 472 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: I never fished bait, so I would imagine that if 473 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: you fish bait, you get you get a lot of eels. 474 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: But on artificials. I never had any any eel action 475 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: other than just seeing them around. They're everywhere and they're 476 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: definitely creepy. Yeah, oh yeah, super creepy video. But Dustin, 477 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: thank you for that man, Like I gotta I got 478 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: a I don't know if i'd say pleasure out of it, 479 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,239 Speaker 1: but it was. It was fascinating to watch and and 480 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: thank you for giving us the story so that we 481 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: knew what the hell is going on, because that's one 482 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: of those amazing moments you catch on camera that you 483 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: can never recreate. All right, So, as a as you 484 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: all know, Fish News is a competition and normally we 485 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: have no idea what stories the other ones bringing. But 486 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: it's a little different this week because Joe knows what 487 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about. I'm gonna talk about something that 488 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: that that we all know about here, um, but I 489 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: don't know what Joe is going to talk about. So 490 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: there's at least some mystery still involved. And at the 491 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: end of it, are are phenomenal and amazing Audio engineer 492 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: Phil is going to choose a winner and crown the 493 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: champion of the week. And Joe, you're leading us off. 494 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: So what do you got man? I am, I am, 495 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: I'm leading us off. And I'm sure some of you 496 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: recall the news story I did just last week, I 497 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: believe about a woman in Malaysia eating her pet carp 498 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: got a little little traction on the interwebs and she 499 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: turned them into a nice soup. And in that report, 500 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: we we touched on how it's understood that many people 501 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: in many cultures love eating carp but by and large, 502 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: we Americans don't. We don't eat the carp. In fact, 503 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: like in the culinary world. People would go as far 504 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: as calling carpet four letter word, which has been a 505 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: really massive problem when it comes to getting people to 506 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: eat invasive Asian carp right and um, even though they're 507 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: not they're not the same species as common carp. They're 508 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: not grubbing the bottom in the mud in the park pond. 509 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: You know, they feed differently, they taste differently, and you 510 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: and I can vouch for that, and we don't need 511 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: to harp on it. But a piece of deep fried 512 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: Asian carp is delicious and mild and not fishy at all. 513 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: I eat at your house. We talked about it before. 514 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: Still still they're called carp, which sours a lot of 515 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: people from having any interest in eating them. Well. Uh. 516 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: Per a recent story in USA Today, a full on 517 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: media blitz is coming later this year, okay, to change 518 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: the consumers perception of the fish and also more importantly, 519 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: change its name. Okay, So now from this is from 520 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: the article. The proposed new name for the fish is 521 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: being kept tightly under wraps for a big rollout in 522 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: June prior to the Boston Seafood Show in mid July. 523 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: But other aspects of the what they're calling the Perfect 524 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: Catch campaign will point out that invasive Asian carp species 525 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 1: being Silver's big heads, grass carp and black carp are flaky, tasty, organic, sustainable, 526 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: low and mercury and rich in protein and Omega three 527 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: fatty acids. So what's happening here is the foodies are 528 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: are kind of pulling another fast one. Right. And in 529 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: case you didn't know, this has been done before, I'm 530 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure many of you have heard of 531 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: orange ruffy, right. They're a deep dwelling saltwater fish. But 532 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: orange ruffy is not their real name. Their their their 533 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: technical name is slime head. They're called slime heads um, 534 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: and nobody wants to eat a slime head. But in 535 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: the late seventies a decision was made to rebrand those 536 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: fish so people would buy and eat them, and they did, 537 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: and the world ate so much orange roffy that in 538 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: green Peace added them to their red list of unsustainable fisheries. Um, 539 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest ruse of them all is Chilean 540 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: sea bass. Their real name is Patagonian toothfish. But nobody's 541 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: paying eighty bucks for a play to Patagonian toothfish at 542 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: the country club. Right, And but that name point blank 543 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: was dreamed up by a seafood wholesaler in in seven 544 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: looking to increase his profits and Boy Diddy and we 545 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: don't have time to go into all the history and 546 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: drama of commercial tooth fishing, but if you're interested, grab 547 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: a copy of a book called Hooked, Pirates, Poaching and 548 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: the Perfect Fish by G. Bruce Neckt. I don't know 549 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: if you've ever read that. It's an it's several people. 550 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: Several people. After we talked about the tooth fish last 551 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: week and their blood being used to melt, several people 552 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: melt melt snow. Several people wrote me and said I 553 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: should read that book. I haven't read it, but it's 554 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: one one we might have to cover. It's been a 555 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: lot of years. I should reread it, but I remember 556 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: it's very very good book, very detailed. Anyway, there's not 557 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: much more to say about the carp story, right because 558 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: it's all a big secret, like they're unveiling the new name, 559 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: like it's like a New Year's eve ball drop. Yet 560 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: I fear that when it does finally light up, like 561 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 1: there will just be the deflated sound of one party blower, 562 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, like the eat yeah, like the effect Phil 563 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: uses in Fish News, Phil, you remind us, Thank you, Phil. 564 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: But I hope it works, I really do. I'm just 565 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: skeptical because people have tried this with dog fish, see robins, skates, 566 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: all kinds of things, like all these different efforts to 567 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: get people really excited about eating them and buying them, 568 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: and it really hasn't worked on a grand scale. But 569 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: it does leave me speculating, how can you not about 570 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: those names? Oh that's the fun part about this. I 571 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: I do you have a couple in mind? Because I 572 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: have a couple in mind. Of course I do. All right, 573 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: do you want to go first or second? I mean, 574 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: I only have one that I think is valid, and 575 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: it's not really funny. I just think it would work. 576 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: I think you just need to call it silver Cod, 577 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: So okay, interesting if people are gonna buy it and 578 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: they're gonna get the hell out of it, I had 579 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: a little bit more fun with it. And the way 580 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: I look at it is it all depends on the branding, 581 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: right If if you want it to be mostly consumed 582 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: at state fairs as like fish and chips, deep fried 583 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: crispy brown, if that's sort of the motif, we're gonna 584 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: get people excited about I was, I was. I would 585 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: say Kentucky cod was one of them. That's a good one. 586 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: But now if you want to if you want to 587 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: glitz it up and make it fancy and have it 588 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: in a raspberry reduction, I came up with Priori and 589 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: Hake or my favorite, Davenport's soul. Oh, davenports soul is 590 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: pretty clever. That's clever, I like, you know, So we'll 591 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: see what they what they rename the the Asian carp 592 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: up there in in Boston this summer. But kidding aside, 593 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: this is a fun little story. If you have the 594 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: chance to consume some, whether you catch it or somebody 595 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: offers you some, you'll be shocked. Don't say no, don't 596 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: really good. We've really done a good job. I gotta 597 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: give you credit for most this, but keeping this. It's 598 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: been a fun, lighthearted episode so far. Everything's been been 599 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: kind of cheaking and I'm going to completely ruin this 600 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: vibe right now. It's gotta be done, though. There's an 601 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: elephant in the room that has to be discussed. Um 602 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: and I'm only gonna I'm only gonna do one story 603 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: today because because it's kind of long. Yeah, So last week, 604 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: the State of Wisconsin's head sturgeon biologist, Ryan Kanig, was 605 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: charged with obstruction in a case the alleges he and 606 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: his staff illegally transferred lake sturgeon eggs to local caviaar 607 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: processors and then tried to cover it up. Yep, if 608 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: you if you watch the sturgeon spearing episodes of the 609 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: fur hat Ice Tour, you might remember the interview that 610 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: Yannie did with with Mr kaneg When we were putting 611 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: that episode together. I talked with him a lot, like 612 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say we're buddies, but I definitely got 613 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: to know him, and he really helped kind of shape 614 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: that story and help me understand, helped all of us 615 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: understand the sturgeon fishery. So so Kennig is or I 616 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: should say, was responsible for overseeing one of the largest, 617 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: healthiest and best managed sturgeon populations in North America, the 618 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: Lake Winnebago system. The story of this fishery and the 619 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: community tied to the lake sturgeon around there, it just 620 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: it captivated everybody involved, right, and that that's why we 621 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: two of our episodes there, we just we had to 622 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: cover that. It was so good and I don't want 623 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: to get too repetitive for folks who already know, but 624 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: I feel like this needs some backstory. Lake sturgeon, like 625 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: all sturgeon, were pretty well wiped out by the turn 626 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,239 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, and in most places they just 627 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: haven't come back. In nineteen of the twenty states where 628 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: lake sturgeon once had viable populations, they remain either threatened 629 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: or endangered. Lake Winnebago and Wisconsin is an outlier. It 630 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: is the epicenter for sturgeon recovery. This is the success 631 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: story that the rest of the country in other parts 632 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: of the world are hoping they can emulate. And some 633 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: of that can be attributed to the culture of sturgeon spearing, 634 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: which would seem weird to some people, with those of 635 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: us who work here and Honey and amily understand the 636 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: relationship between sport and conservation. People around Winnebago really love 637 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: spearing sturgeon. They really enjoy sitting over these giant holes 638 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: cutting the ice, holding six ft long tridents and waiting 639 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: for match of fish to swim past them. Back in 640 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, a sturgeon spearit named Bill Casper 641 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: noticed that there just weren't very many fish around, and 642 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: he figured that other spears might be seeing the same thing. 643 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: So he drove to all the bars around Lake Winnebago 644 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: and tacked up these hand made flyers, asking people to 645 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 1: come to a meeting and talk about it. To his shock, 646 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: over three people showed up and the conservation group Sturgeon 647 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: for Tomorrow was born. And that group, like, to me, 648 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: that represents exactly what we mean when we talk about 649 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: degenerate anglers. Like going to a bar, attacking up flyers 650 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: and starting a conservation organization is exactly what I mean. 651 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: Because that group has now grown into the largest citizen 652 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: advocacy group for sturgeon in the world. They have partnered 653 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: with management agencies and biologists from all over the US 654 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: and all the way to Europe. They were instrumental in 655 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: jump starting and helping to fund sturgeon hatchery programs. They 656 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: pioneered the Sturgeon Guard, which is like a bunch of 657 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: volunteers who lined the banks of the Wolf River every 658 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: year to protect spawning sturgeon from poachers or people who 659 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: just want to mess with them. Like they literally stand 660 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: guard over this fish and so often fish and wildlife 661 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: covery efforts result in conflict between management agencies and local residents, 662 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: but in this case, spears and anglers have been able 663 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: to work in concert with the Wisconsin DNR and the 664 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: results have been phenomenal. Here's Kanek. This population has had 665 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: a chance with the protections that have been in place 666 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: for the last few decades that we're starting to see 667 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: what these fish can actually do. We've got more fish 668 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: than we probably had in recent decades, maybe even dating 669 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: back to the late eight hundreds, and we've got more 670 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: big fish than we maybe ever have had. All that 671 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: has to say, Lake Winnebago sturgeon are a rare and 672 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: unequivocal success story in modern fisheries conservation. They're in such 673 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: good shape that the Wisconsin DNR can confidently open up 674 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: a spearing season every year and tens of thousands of 675 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: people by tags yeah sturgeon biologists at annual quota, and 676 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: the DNR operates registration stations at all the major lake 677 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: access points so that they can closely monitor fish harvest. 678 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: As soon as that quota is met, which doesn't happen 679 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: every year, the season closes immediately right there on it, 680 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: so tex and biologists collect samples and data from each 681 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: fish harvested like length, weight, sex, stomach contents, and sexual maturity, 682 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: which provide critical information for continuing to monitor and manage 683 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: the fish. So this is a very complex and really 684 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: well organized event that gets tens of thousands of people 685 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: fired up about Lake sturgeon and also helps the DNR 686 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: collect all kinds of useful data. But spearing season, which 687 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,919 Speaker 1: opened last Saturday, began with a kind of a dark 688 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: cloud over it. Kaneg, the biologist who has successfully overseen 689 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: the Winnebago surgeon season since two thousand twelve, has been 690 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,879 Speaker 1: placed on administrative leave. He's also facing up to ten 691 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in fines and up to nine months in 692 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: jail if convicted. He's not alone. Several other pillars of 693 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: the sturgeon culture around Lake Winnebago are also facing possible charges. 694 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: So what happened? Wisconsin? Dina has compiled evidence suggesting the 695 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: Knag and other staff have been supplying row to local 696 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: caveat processors for years. When a successful spear brought a 697 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: sexually mature female to a registration station, the biologists and 698 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: texts would sometimes collect the eggs as part of an 699 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: ongoing fertility study. Knig told investigators that he delivered eggs 700 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: to specific caviar processors at the Spears request after completing 701 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: his analysis. Kani also told investigators he handed out sheets 702 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: at surge and registration stations that listed certain processors names 703 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: in contact info, so Spears knew where to deliver eggs 704 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: if they wanted them processed into caviar. Now, if that 705 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: were just the complete truth, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 706 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: But Knag and others have been under investigation since, and 707 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: the criminal complaint alleges more nefarious goings on, shall we say, 708 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: and astigators claim that dn R staff stored sturgeon eggs 709 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: at registration stations with the sole intent of giving them 710 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: the processors. They even found one cooler containing eggs marked 711 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: with the name of a local processor. The complaint does not, however, 712 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: cite any known sales of caviare or make any claims 713 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: that anyone from dn R or elsewhere received payments for eggs. 714 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: The problem is that there are numerous reports indicating the 715 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: Knag and other DINA employees received jars of caviare as 716 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: thanks as soon as Canagan. Others accepted gifts those sturgeon 717 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: eggs were no longer given away. They were bartered, and 718 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: bartering with wildlife products is unequivocally against the law and 719 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: and to be honest. For really good reason, Canaan is 720 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: being charged with obstruction because it appears he tried to 721 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: cover up his involvement. The statements he made two investigators 722 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: did not match some of the evidence they collect that Additionally, 723 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: he performed a factory reset on his DNR issued cell 724 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,479 Speaker 1: phone after he became aware of the investigation. Yeah. Three 725 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: other residents were charged with unlawful sale of game in 726 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: connection to this case, including Victor and Mary Schneider. Again, 727 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: if you watch the fur Head ice tour, you're probably 728 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: gonna recognize Mary Schneider's name. She's the eighties seven year 729 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: old decoy carver and and just matriarch of surgeon culture 730 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: around Fondilac. I like the paint, I like that, I 731 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: like that carve. Would do you know? I've been doing 732 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: it for years. Mary told investigators that she and her 733 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 1: husband process eggs dropped off by successful spears in exchange 734 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: for half the finished product. There's no evidence that the 735 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: Schneider has sold any of the caviard. They either ate 736 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: it or gave it away to friends and family. But 737 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: under the law, that's still a form of barter. I 738 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,240 Speaker 1: do not condone bartering or selling wildlife in any form. 739 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: Doing so cance towards a slippery slope that can lead 740 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: to the commodification of wild fish and animals. But man, 741 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: I got to admit this story, the story really leaves 742 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: me conflicted. You have several retired state employees said on 743 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: the record that it wasn't unusual for DNR staff to 744 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: share the prepared caveat they got from the processors at 745 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: meetings or local taverns as a way of encouraging people 746 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: to maximize the use of the fish they harvested. They 747 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: considered the samples educational. And I can I can imagine 748 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: that the folks work in those those sturgeon spearing season. Yeah, 749 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: Like they see a lot of fish and a lot 750 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: of fish eggs go to waste every year, and I'm 751 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: I can imagine how frustrating that's gotta be. And so 752 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: I can understand why they would want to encourage more 753 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: spirits to eat eggs by showing them like, hey, this 754 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: stuff can be made into a delicacy, It can be 755 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: really good. Don't waste it. I also know how in 756 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: a small town people often operate on a barter system, 757 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: right like that they help each other out and they 758 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 1: return favors in whatever ways they can. But I just, man, 759 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,919 Speaker 1: I think this case is a very sad and very 760 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: high profile reminder to all of us that we just 761 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: we can't use wildlife or fish meat or wild game 762 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: as currency. Even a situation where it seems completely innocent 763 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: and innocuous, like if somebody's helped me, I don't know, 764 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: sand and repaint my deck, the law says I can't 765 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: thank them with wally filets and deer steaks from my fraser. 766 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: And I'm sure that there are some people out there 767 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: they're saying that it's crazy and this is a total 768 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: overreach of enforcement. But the commodification of wildlife has had 769 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: disastrous outcomes in the past. We've seen what happens. So 770 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: we have these really strict laws for a reason. And 771 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: and for all those of you out here want to 772 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: know more about this, h head on over to the 773 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 1: mediator dot com and check out Pat Darkin's article titled 774 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: Wisconsin's sturgeon biologists charging caveat probe. I totally agree with 775 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: the slippery Slope here, but just to maybe try and 776 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: have a better understanding, just or to clarify here. So 777 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 1: like what you're talking about with somebody standing your deck 778 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: and you're thanking them with walleye filets or dear meat 779 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: from your freezer, that you're not supposed to do because 780 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: now technically that has become a form of payment. Basically, 781 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: now that's barter. If those same two dudes came over 782 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: and helped you with nothing, and as a gift, you 783 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: were like, hey man, you want to take some walleye 784 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: home or some venisone home. That's okay. It is. Yes, 785 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: you can gift. It's different state by state, but sometimes 786 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: you have to have paperwork associated with it to say 787 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: like this has been gifted, but often after its process 788 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: you don't have to do that. If it were a 789 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: whole animal that I had harvested under my tag and 790 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: I wanted to give it to somebody, there would be 791 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of paperwork you have to do to make 792 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: it legal. But you can gift things, they just cannot 793 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: become a form of currency. That's where things become a problem. 794 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: You cannot begin to use any wildlife products as currency 795 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: of any sort by law. And again look I get 796 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: why it's it seems potentially crazy. How could you be 797 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: upset at at this eighty seven year old woman who 798 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: is making caviare for somebody, and you know she gets 799 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: half of it that she gives to her friends and family. 800 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: That is That is something I I very much can 801 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 1: identify with and understand that sense of frustration. But I 802 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: also think it's important to recognize that we have these 803 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: game laws for a reason, and they're really strict for 804 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: a reason. Of course, I genuinely hope and I expect 805 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,799 Speaker 1: that the Schneider's get let off, Like I will be 806 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: pretty upset if they actually get prosecuted to the full 807 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: extent of the law. I really I it's not my call, 808 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: it's not my place. But if anyone were to ask me, 809 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,320 Speaker 1: I'd say, I mean, come ons that you made your point. 810 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: Everybody understands, like, let's let's not actually prosecute these old people. 811 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: Knig is a different story. Yeah, Like I think he 812 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: probably did have good intentions, I really do, But it's 813 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,280 Speaker 1: the lying and the cover up instead of just coming clean, 814 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: and that for me, that's where he crossed. That's what 815 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: bites a lot of people on a lot of things. 816 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: Man if you had just been open about it, you 817 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: might not be in the in the same in the 818 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: same pickle. And and you know to to that end. 819 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: So both of us, I mean, we we got lit 820 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: up since this dropped, Like, you know, I wasn't that 821 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,439 Speaker 1: the guy in fair hat wasn't you know you guys 822 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: work with him and sort of unrelated to the central 823 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: story too. Um, you know, this happens from time to time. 824 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: It is, it has happened to me there There have 825 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,880 Speaker 1: been several times over the years where you shoot a 826 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: video or write an article or or quote somebody. Um, 827 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, and you do the best you can to 828 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: to vet people and you certainly don't know everything about it. 829 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: But then it comes out later like a dude got 830 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, hit for poaching crop ease and like you 831 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: croppy fished with him three years ago. It happens on occasion, 832 00:45:55,560 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's it's terrible, But um, I've 833 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: had it happened with dudes who you know, had these 834 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: incredible careers on the up and up, and then you know, 835 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: something happens and then it comes back on you like oh, 836 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: you were fishing with that ship head. It's like yeah, man, 837 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: but you know, you don't know that, you know what 838 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: I mean? Like this, this stuff just unfortunately happens time 839 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,280 Speaker 1: to time. And you know, there's also the you can't 840 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: throw out or discount the excellent work that this person 841 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 1: has done previously in his career. That doesn't mean that 842 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: you condone the aspects that were illegal or or unethical, 843 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 1: but you can't just discount and throw away the great 844 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: work that he has done to help manage the sturgeon 845 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: population and maintain the relationships of the community with a 846 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: surgeon like the dude deserves the credit for what he 847 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: did and and he's getting he's certainly getting the punishment 848 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,879 Speaker 1: for the things he did wrong as well. Yeah, you're right. 849 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean, as shady as this is, he made some 850 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,759 Speaker 1: wrong choices in this, but you're right, you can't let 851 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: this wipe away and and define every single thing that 852 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,959 Speaker 1: this guy has done in his career. No, I don't. 853 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,879 Speaker 1: I don't think so. And I think ultimately the real 854 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: loser and all of this isn't going to end up 855 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,479 Speaker 1: being the sturgeon population, right I think. I think, yes, 856 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 1: that you've lost the person who was heading that up. 857 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: You've lost some of the infrastructure that's worked to to 858 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: to do this really well for the past nine years. 859 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: And I'm sure that Wisconsin Dina was gonna get it 860 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: back together and get things up and running. It's all 861 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,960 Speaker 1: gonna be fine. But you know, losing the folks who 862 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: have been intimately involved in this program and done well 863 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,719 Speaker 1: with it for almost a decade is certainly going to 864 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: be a hiccup. I don't think. I don't think this. 865 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: I don't think this has a happy ending, and I 866 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: just hope that, you know, I think. I think if 867 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: there's a takeaway for me, it's it's to remember, like 868 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: that how easy it is to run a foul when 869 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: it comes to gifting or bartering with with fish and wildlife, 870 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: and that we just we all have to be careful 871 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,959 Speaker 1: with that. There's a reason why those laws exist. There's 872 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: no reason to be piste off about it. Just just 873 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: be careful what you do. It's yeah, and it's the 874 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: simplest things that can get you in a lot of trouble, 875 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: all right. So that one, we had to get that 876 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,959 Speaker 1: one out of the way. I got one more short 877 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: one here. Although it all, it all does kind of 878 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: tie together. We've eaten Asian carpet and caviare now two 879 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: very controversial dishes apparently, So well, let's let's we'll try 880 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: and move away to something a little more safe and familiar. 881 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: Um we because we all love a nice, golden, crispy 882 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: fried piece of walleye, right especially it is the American fish. 883 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,720 Speaker 1: It's the American fish which is what makes this interesting. 884 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 1: Um we especially love that out of a frigid lake 885 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: in the middle of winter, it's good eats. Anyway, Minnesota 886 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: based Blue Water Farms, which is an aquaculture company, believes 887 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 1: they're going to be the first to successfully raise mass 888 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:58,280 Speaker 1: quantities of eater sized walleyes indoors. Walleye farming now indoors indoors. 889 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: So now here's the thing, right I. We could spend 890 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: another hour digging into the backstory of walleye farming and 891 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: commercial walleye fishing, but there's just a couple of key 892 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: bullet points here that will help paint a better picture 893 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 1: of why this is a big deal. Uh. There is 894 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 1: no commercial walleye fishing in the US anymore right there, 895 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 1: But there is in Canada. So while you don't see 896 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: walleye for sale in the States as as frequently as 897 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,359 Speaker 1: you did, you know many many years ago. Uh, if 898 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: you do see it at a fish fry joint and 899 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: restaurant in the Great Lakes whatever, it was probably harvested 900 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: in Canada. And then with a couple exceptions, I gotta, 901 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: I gotta, because otherwise you're gonna get hammered. There are 902 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,280 Speaker 1: a couple of tribal there are a couple of tribal 903 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: nations who still do commercial fish for walleye in the US, 904 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: but mostly it's it's gone. But I know I can 905 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: see with our listeners that you were gonna appreciate that. 906 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. There's a lot of research in this, okay, 907 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 1: and I was not great in school. It's the other 908 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: bullet point here. We know walleyes can successfully be raised 909 00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: in h hatcheries. Many states do this for stock and purposes. However, 910 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 1: they're they're typically released into the wild around twenty centimeters 911 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 1: because once they reached that length, they're sort of off 912 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,279 Speaker 1: of plankton and micro in vertebrates and they're eating each other. 913 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,760 Speaker 1: So basically walleyes can't really be raised to market size 914 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: or one of the difficulties, Uh you know the size 915 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: you get nice filets off of, because they're just too 916 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: damn mean and cannibalistic. That's one of been that's been 917 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: one of the biggest hangups in walleye farming. Uh And 918 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,879 Speaker 1: that's just one of many problems have been encountered over 919 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,239 Speaker 1: the years now and doing some research, there have been 920 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: some advances right there. There was one dude who figured 921 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: it out in um floating pens. But you know, he 922 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,799 Speaker 1: was he was supplying local establishments, but his walleye was 923 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: so much more expensive than the ones being imported from 924 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 1: Canada that it just didn't make any sense. He kind 925 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,880 Speaker 1: of got knocked out of the market anyway. According to 926 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:54,040 Speaker 1: this story in the Duluth News Tribune, Bluewater Farms thinks 927 00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: they've got it figured out. And to be clear, this 928 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: walleye rearing facility doesn't exist yet. They're still in the 929 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 1: funding phase and grants phase, planning phase, but it is 930 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,839 Speaker 1: chugging along and the company has actually hired a gent 931 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,240 Speaker 1: named Gregory Fisher, who was was kind of the top 932 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 1: dog at the aquaculture facility at the University of Wisconsin 933 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,800 Speaker 1: Stevens Point, and according to this story, he has essentially 934 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 1: figured out how to rear market size walleyes in an 935 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: indoor recirculating aquaculture system. His team has has proven that 936 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: it could be done with broodstock, and I get the 937 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: impression that there's some trade secret here, like there's a 938 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: lot of details about the specifics of how he's figured 939 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,640 Speaker 1: that out left out of the story. However, the thing 940 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: to keep in mind is proving it's feasible is not 941 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,839 Speaker 1: the same as scaling it up to a point where 942 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,279 Speaker 1: it's economical. Right, So to make it economical, you've got 943 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: to produce loads and loads of walleye so that you 944 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,160 Speaker 1: make the cost of goods to restaurants and markets comparable 945 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,239 Speaker 1: to buying uh, you know, imported wild colt walleye or 946 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: wherever else you get it. Uh And Bluewater is confident 947 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,400 Speaker 1: that that they'll get there, but it's really yet to 948 00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,799 Speaker 1: be seen. And I think one of the interesting things 949 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: about this is, you know, you called it America's fish. 950 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,520 Speaker 1: It's easy to forget how many people have never had 951 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,319 Speaker 1: delicious walleye because in a lot of cases, if you're 952 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,960 Speaker 1: not an angler catching your own, it's not something that 953 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,720 Speaker 1: you that you get your hands on very easily. Um. 954 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,319 Speaker 1: But but so many anglers target them, and you and 955 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,760 Speaker 1: I tend to run with fishy people were fishy people listening. 956 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: Now that you sort of forget that. And it's very 957 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,799 Speaker 1: similar to stripe bess on the East coast. It's not 958 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,760 Speaker 1: easy to find legally harvested, you know, saltwater pure strange 959 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: striper on a menure in a fish market. So many 960 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,920 Speaker 1: people have never tasted that. But because I fish for 961 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: in my whole life, this it's it's it's not weird, 962 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,399 Speaker 1: and I'd be curious to see if wall anglers think, 963 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,399 Speaker 1: if this happens, if blue Water can achieve this um, 964 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: if the fishes is good, because it's it's it's you know, common, 965 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,840 Speaker 1: the common non angling consumer won't really know the difference. 966 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 1: But even here, you can buy what's labeled as stripe 967 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,760 Speaker 1: bass in a fish market, but it's it's sneaky wordplay 968 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,240 Speaker 1: because it's hybrid farm raised striper guarantee side by side 969 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,359 Speaker 1: with the real deal. It's not as good but same, 970 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,960 Speaker 1: it just doesn't exactly. And this whole operation, if you're 971 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with aquaculture, it's it's a circulating system. So they'll 972 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,719 Speaker 1: be growing wall eyes to market size, but also a 973 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,360 Speaker 1: year round growing lettuce and strawberries and all kinds of 974 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,279 Speaker 1: other things with with the wastewater that filters through and 975 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,360 Speaker 1: grows vegetables. Um, it could, it could be pretty revolutionary 976 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: if they can get it done. Well. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 977 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm I'm i'd say cautiously optimistic with the limited information 978 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,600 Speaker 1: I have. UM, I don't this is not a useful comment. 979 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,440 Speaker 1: But you're in Minnesota. Why would you name yourselves blue water? 980 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: Like that just doesn't make any sense to me. I 981 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,239 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know of any blue water in Minnesota. 982 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,120 Speaker 1: But anyway, maybe it just it sounds good if you're 983 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,560 Speaker 1: in the fish farming game blue wall. Yeah, and we'll we'll, 984 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,160 Speaker 1: time will, time will tell if it works. But you know, 985 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: if you think about it, while there's still commercial fishing 986 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: on the Canadian side of like the Great Lakes and 987 00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,359 Speaker 1: things like that, I mean, the fact that it's not 988 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,719 Speaker 1: really happening to on a grand scale on on our 989 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,800 Speaker 1: side anymore really speaks to why we have such incredible 990 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,080 Speaker 1: walleye fisheries in the Great Lakes. So there's plenty out 991 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 1: there to be caught for you to take home and 992 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,520 Speaker 1: cook up. But if we were commercially fishing for him 993 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: to get the amount that we needed to supply restaurants 994 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,480 Speaker 1: and things. You know, Walleye fishing wouldn't be nearly as 995 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 1: good on this side, So this does have value in 996 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,319 Speaker 1: terms of sustainable fisheries. And uh, maybe there'll be a 997 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 1: lot more Walleyes down the road in fish markets. We 998 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,759 Speaker 1: shall see. You are definitely still eligible for a win 999 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,960 Speaker 1: for your reporting. Phil still has to pick somebody, and 1000 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,520 Speaker 1: I think after this this round of news, I could 1001 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,759 Speaker 1: certainly use a stiff drink to wash all this info down. 1002 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,279 Speaker 1: So we'll hear from Phil and then we'll do a 1003 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:49,400 Speaker 1: little that's my bar, Miles. You fell on the Caviare 1004 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,680 Speaker 1: grenade this week so that Joe Sirmellie could be crowned 1005 00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: the winner, and I'm sure he appreciates it. This whole 1006 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,880 Speaker 1: Asian carp rebranding thing is all very amusing to me. 1007 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,040 Speaker 1: Like it's Ali Shedy and the Breakfast Club or Olivia 1008 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,120 Speaker 1: Newton John in Greece. The car will take off its 1009 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,040 Speaker 1: glasses and let its hair down and we'll realize that 1010 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,080 Speaker 1: it was hot the whole time. But as far as 1011 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,319 Speaker 1: a rebranding goes, this feels less like Ziggy Stardust and 1012 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,560 Speaker 1: more like Chris Gaines. People say you stink you, Garth 1013 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,279 Speaker 1: Brooks fish you. But I see you, and you know what, 1014 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: I love you just the way you are best. God 1015 00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,840 Speaker 1: damn bar tender from tim buck to to Portland, Maine, 1016 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,360 Speaker 1: the Portland argument for that matter. Okay, we've got a dandy. 1017 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,879 Speaker 1: That's my bar submission for you guys, courtesy of Brad 1018 00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,800 Speaker 1: shoots you. I hope I said that right. And Brad, 1019 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 1: let me tell you what, man, I love when a 1020 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,760 Speaker 1: part of what makes a bar great is a character 1021 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,319 Speaker 1: at that bar, like I love the cheersy aspect of 1022 00:55:55,320 --> 00:56:00,320 Speaker 1: this entry. And today we are going to Leona was Anson. 1023 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 1: The Wisconsin people probably gonna tell me I said that 1024 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,600 Speaker 1: wrong too, but it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. We're 1025 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,400 Speaker 1: going We're going there to Johnny's Resort on the shore 1026 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,640 Speaker 1: of Wabbican Lake. I'm sure I said that wrong too. 1027 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,280 Speaker 1: Just send me a note. It's fine anyway, Brad Rites 1028 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,919 Speaker 1: open in ninety seven by John sr and still run 1029 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: today by his son Johnny Muskie Ashton Brenner. Johnny's Resort 1030 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,439 Speaker 1: stands in a category all by itself when it comes 1031 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 1: to fishing bars. You can pop into the resort in 1032 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 1: the morning, rent a boat with a full tank of 1033 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: gas for only fifty dollars, and head out for a 1034 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,520 Speaker 1: full day of muskie fishing on some of the best 1035 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: water Northeast Wisconsin has to offer. When your day is done, 1036 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna want to stop in for what is easily 1037 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,000 Speaker 1: the best and only frozen pizza on the lake, and 1038 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,680 Speaker 1: be sure to get your name up on the wall 1039 00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,360 Speaker 1: of honor if you were successful in catching a muskie. 1040 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,560 Speaker 1: Johnny keeps a record of all muskies over thirty two 1041 00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,040 Speaker 1: inches caught in a year. That is rad But I 1042 00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,120 Speaker 1: do I just need to stop for one second. I 1043 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: just gotta just to comment and say, in my East 1044 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,919 Speaker 1: Side world, the words best and frozen do not belong 1045 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,440 Speaker 1: in the same sentence when discussing pizza. Like even the 1046 00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,040 Speaker 1: dives here, they make their own. Sometimes it sucks, but 1047 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,719 Speaker 1: they make their own. Um. But I look, I do 1048 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 1: understand the frozen bar pie is such a Midwest thing, 1049 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,000 Speaker 1: and even me like the pizza snot that I am 1050 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,040 Speaker 1: will admit that if I had to classify the finest 1051 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: frozen pizzas have ever had the finest on the market, 1052 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,080 Speaker 1: they would be Hedges, which is from Minnesota, and Jack's 1053 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: which is in fact from Wisconsin. I I appreciate that 1054 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 1: clarification and that you were willing to go there, But 1055 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,760 Speaker 1: I gotta say, the whole Northeast pizza thing is is overrated. 1056 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,920 Speaker 1: It is maybe so. I all right, thirty years ago, right, 1057 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,800 Speaker 1: maybe maybe thirty years ago, when the rest of the 1058 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,360 Speaker 1: country just had Pizza Huton Dominoes, there was a legitimate 1059 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,240 Speaker 1: argument that, you know, oh, only get good pizza the Northeast, 1060 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,120 Speaker 1: but now you can't get good pizza pretty much anywhere. 1061 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,960 Speaker 1: And I say this having eaten at both Grimaldi's and 1062 00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: Juliana's in Brooklyn. They're both very good, But are they 1063 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,080 Speaker 1: the end all be all of pizza. I No, I 1064 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,320 Speaker 1: do not think so. Mhm. I mean, that's fine, you're 1065 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,240 Speaker 1: trying to get me to engage here, but I find 1066 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,760 Speaker 1: it sometimes it's just easier to let people that don't 1067 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,680 Speaker 1: know what they're talking about just have their moment, like 1068 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,600 Speaker 1: we don't have the time. If I wanted to take 1069 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,280 Speaker 1: a shot, though, I'd say, oh, Grimaldi's and Juliana's. Someone 1070 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,720 Speaker 1: watches a lot of that Food Paradise show and is 1071 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,560 Speaker 1: a tourist. The real Brooklyn people are not at either 1072 00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,320 Speaker 1: of those places. There at the real joint anyway, enough 1073 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,480 Speaker 1: about that, fair enough, fair enough, I'm I'm wading into 1074 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,280 Speaker 1: water that's deeper than my waiters. Right now, Back to Brad, 1075 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:39,320 Speaker 1: who really is the focus of this. Yeah, we're being jerks, 1076 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: Brad says in his email, be sure to visit with Johnny, 1077 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,640 Speaker 1: ask him to tell you some tales of his youth 1078 00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,640 Speaker 1: growing up on the lake. Asked to see his dad's 1079 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,040 Speaker 1: old muskie gun. How else would you dispatch a muskie 1080 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,120 Speaker 1: before bringing it in the boat, Or maybe asked to 1081 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,800 Speaker 1: see the bucktails Johnny tied with his own beard hair, 1082 00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,560 Speaker 1: and certainly spend some time looking out of the collection 1083 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: of lures and mounts from a different era of musky fishing. 1084 00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:08,280 Speaker 1: Above all else, you must must sell a rust a 1085 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,160 Speaker 1: successful day muskie fishing, or drown a shitty one with 1086 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:17,200 Speaker 1: the bars signature. Drink the crowd bomb, the crowd bomb. Yeah, 1087 00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,120 Speaker 1: that's that's not racist. That's not racist. Till you're no, no, no, 1088 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,760 Speaker 1: we are talking sour kraut um. So ready for this, 1089 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,520 Speaker 1: because here's how you make it right, Brad says. In 1090 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,360 Speaker 1: a bomb cup, you know the plastic cups with a 1091 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,320 Speaker 1: shot glass in the middle, surrounded by a second larger cup, 1092 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,120 Speaker 1: fill the shot glass with yeager, then fill the outside 1093 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,600 Speaker 1: with And this next part is very important, he says. 1094 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:46,160 Speaker 1: Warm Frank's sour kraut juice opened with a rusty can opener, 1095 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,960 Speaker 1: he says. He says, Johnny himself poured me one to 1096 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,880 Speaker 1: celebrate my first fly Rod musky, and I can say 1097 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,760 Speaker 1: from the experience they are just as delicious as they sound. 1098 00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,280 Speaker 1: And I guess, Brad if I stuck my first fly 1099 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,920 Speaker 1: Rod muskie there, and it was a good one, like 1100 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,600 Speaker 1: like over forty, not a little tweezer, I I slam that, 1101 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,880 Speaker 1: but uh, it really sounds awful, like it really said, 1102 01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,560 Speaker 1: it sounds terrible. Plus, I'm gonna just go ahead and 1103 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,560 Speaker 1: say my yeager days are kind of over, and my 1104 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Soco days are even further behind me, I think than 1105 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,640 Speaker 1: my my yeager days. Smart smart choices, I don't know, 1106 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, Like the crowd juice itself, that doesn't 1107 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,680 Speaker 1: turn me off, like I could see adding maybe a 1108 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 1: spritz of that to a bloody or a Caesar, but 1109 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,080 Speaker 1: croud juice and yeager in my head, that's like fish 1110 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,760 Speaker 1: sauce on Starburst or something like that. Yeah, that that 1111 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,959 Speaker 1: that sounds pretty terrible, and I'm gonna I'm gonna agree. 1112 01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,440 Speaker 1: It's it's not the Crouch juice, It's it's the Yeager. 1113 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,960 Speaker 1: But though the drink sounds awful, the bar does not. 1114 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,560 Speaker 1: If I gotta drink, if I if I am absolutely 1115 01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,200 Speaker 1: forced to drink around of crowd bombs to get Johnny 1116 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 1: started telling musky stories that that is one bumb I'll 1117 01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:55,280 Speaker 1: fall on. I'll throw myself on that one. And you know, beard, bucktails, 1118 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,960 Speaker 1: musky guns, vintage mounts. Come on, I'm in, I'm I'm 1119 01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 1: freaking in on all that. I I checked out Johnny's 1120 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:08,120 Speaker 1: website and uh, it's uh, it's spartan at best, and 1121 01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't appear to have been updated since two thousand eleven. 1122 01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,920 Speaker 1: But it does seem to confirm the legitimacy of this 1123 01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,480 Speaker 1: this magical place. So Brad is not just putting us 1124 01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 1: on with some elaborate fantasy. Mm hmm. That's good to hear. 1125 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,000 Speaker 1: Do not play with our emotions like that. But if 1126 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,040 Speaker 1: you have a magical place that serves liquor you'd like 1127 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 1: to hear called out on the show, much like Brad, 1128 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,040 Speaker 1: please write down a compelling story and send it to 1129 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: us at bent at the Mediator dot com. I I 1130 01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,520 Speaker 1: loved that one. It left me wanting on some details 1131 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,240 Speaker 1: because I want to know more about the muskie gun. Oh, 1132 01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean, was this was it twenty two? I have questions? 1133 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,760 Speaker 1: There are lingering questions, so do I man? I I know, yeah, 1134 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,600 Speaker 1: exactly was it a pistol? A shotgun? But I don't know? Man? 1135 01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,080 Speaker 1: In the in the old school shark fishing scene, at 1136 01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,440 Speaker 1: least out here, most guys did not rely on a pistol, 1137 01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, because you had to be too accurate and 1138 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:04,760 Speaker 1: too much could go wrong, like shooting a hole in 1139 01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,040 Speaker 1: the boat. So the old heads around here they often 1140 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:19,720 Speaker 1: went with the with a single shot for ten. The 1141 01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,120 Speaker 1: hell was that? That was my fault that I did 1142 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,280 Speaker 1: not authorize this sticking in of that? What was that? 1143 01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,320 Speaker 1: That was my friends? I hope you noticed. That was 1144 01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,520 Speaker 1: Robert L. Keene and I had to get one more 1145 01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,480 Speaker 1: song reference in this episode. I just was we were 1146 01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,120 Speaker 1: on a roll anyway. It sounds like it sounds like 1147 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,600 Speaker 1: back to the Bar Johnny Us is as much a 1148 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 1: museum as it is actually a bar or resort, and 1149 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,800 Speaker 1: they might even have one particular classic lure hanging on 1150 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,840 Speaker 1: the wall there that's been on my mind lately. In 1151 01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,360 Speaker 1: this week's end of the line, I'm taking a deep 1152 01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,000 Speaker 1: dive into a lure that somehow escaped both Joe and 1153 01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,640 Speaker 1: me for most of our lives, despite it being influential, 1154 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,400 Speaker 1: groundbreaking and catching lots of big baths. So so right 1155 01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:10,840 Speaker 1: along with me as I give props to the devil. Well, 1156 01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:17,840 Speaker 1: that's not loud enough. I know Joe covered a classic 1157 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,200 Speaker 1: propeller bait just a few weeks ago when he talked 1158 01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,920 Speaker 1: about getting all puky in the Amazon pulling wood shoppers 1159 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,280 Speaker 1: for peacocks. But but I feel like I need to 1160 01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:30,760 Speaker 1: revisit this genre. The main reason comes from listener Ryan Bromberger, 1161 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,120 Speaker 1: who runs the website Access the Wild and recently sent 1162 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,800 Speaker 1: us a care package that included a couple of vintage 1163 01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:41,120 Speaker 1: lures from his great grandfather's tackle box. Now, I don't 1164 01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,400 Speaker 1: actually know what compelled Ryan to send such family riches 1165 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,520 Speaker 1: to a couple of degenerates like us, but I am 1166 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,360 Speaker 1: deeply grateful and humbled. One of the lures that Ryan 1167 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,360 Speaker 1: sent along is a long cylindrical wooden heart bait with 1168 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,080 Speaker 1: propellers in the four and the aft, superficially similar to 1169 01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,680 Speaker 1: the wood shopper, Joe described, as well as a whole 1170 01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,040 Speaker 1: bunch of other prop baits that have been sold over 1171 01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,040 Speaker 1: the years. But as I have come to learn, this 1172 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 1: one's different. This lure has captivated me ever since it 1173 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,960 Speaker 1: arrived at my house, and I've spent way too much 1174 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,720 Speaker 1: time digging into the backstory. To be totally honest, I'd 1175 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,520 Speaker 1: never heard of this lure, and neither had Joe. At 1176 01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,000 Speaker 1: first glance, I just thought it was one of many 1177 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,240 Speaker 1: short lived baits from the late twentieth century, something produced 1178 01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:26,920 Speaker 1: for a couple of years that never took off. But 1179 01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:32,480 Speaker 1: I was wrong. It's called a Devil's Horse spelled d 1180 01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,080 Speaker 1: E v e L for reasons I'll explain in a minute, 1181 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:40,320 Speaker 1: and it was manufactured by the Smithwick Lure Company. Smithwick 1182 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,440 Speaker 1: is probably best known for their road jerk baits, which 1183 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: Joe covered in an early episode of the show, but 1184 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,439 Speaker 1: though the Rogue maybe the bait that is best known, 1185 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't the lure that launched the company, or even 1186 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,760 Speaker 1: their most groundbreaking design. That was the Devil's Horse. Jack K. 1187 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,560 Speaker 1: Smithwick was an office supplies salesman in post World War 1188 01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,440 Speaker 1: Two Shrie of Port Louisiana, which might sound like a bland, 1189 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,960 Speaker 1: dead end job, but it gave Smithwick access to the 1190 01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,240 Speaker 1: heads of some of the largest companies in the South. 1191 01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,280 Speaker 1: In the early nineteen forties, he started carving lures out 1192 01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,800 Speaker 1: of broom handles, much to the irritation of his wife's 1193 01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,960 Speaker 1: supposedly who started hiding her brooms. In ninety six, Smithwick 1194 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,640 Speaker 1: designed and fished the first prototypes of what would later 1195 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:26,120 Speaker 1: become the Devil's Horse. A couple of years later, once 1196 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,680 Speaker 1: he knew it was onto something, he started giving out 1197 01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,400 Speaker 1: sample lures to his biggest clients. At that time, just 1198 01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,920 Speaker 1: about every serious businessman in the South fished for bass. 1199 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,120 Speaker 1: Pretty soon those clients were calling him for more than 1200 01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,680 Speaker 1: just office supplies. They wanted lures, and we're willing to 1201 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,720 Speaker 1: pay for them. In nine he quit the office supplies business, 1202 01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,560 Speaker 1: bought a lathe from Sears, hired some help, and started 1203 01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,720 Speaker 1: making lures full time from his home. Even after going 1204 01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,680 Speaker 1: in full time and producing thirty thousand devils Horses in 1205 01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,720 Speaker 1: the first year, demand vastly outstripped his production capacity, which 1206 01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,600 Speaker 1: gave the lures an even greater appeal. For the first decade, 1207 01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:08,520 Speaker 1: the bates were something of a regional secret, popular in Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, 1208 01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,880 Speaker 1: and Florida, and at that time they were branded with 1209 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,640 Speaker 1: the word devil like I said, misspelled with two ease. 1210 01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,200 Speaker 1: Most sources claim that misspelling to have been intentional, a 1211 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,480 Speaker 1: marketing decision made due to concern that buyers wouldn't purchase 1212 01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,800 Speaker 1: a lure with the word devil on it during those 1213 01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,439 Speaker 1: more pious times. But in an interview with the writer 1214 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:35,240 Speaker 1: Michael Bacon, Smithwick's son Jack Jr. Claimed Hell, Dad just 1215 01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:39,720 Speaker 1: couldn't spell either way. In nineteen sixty three, the bait 1216 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: was officially renamed the Devil's Horse with an Eye, just 1217 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 1: as the Smithwick brand began to gain national traction. By then, 1218 01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,680 Speaker 1: they had a whole line of Devil's Horse style stick 1219 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,120 Speaker 1: bait offshoots in different sizes, weights, and body shapes. Throughout 1220 01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,880 Speaker 1: the sixties, outdoor writers pen tails of riding the Devil's 1221 01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,480 Speaker 1: Horse and catching bass all over the country. In nineteen 1222 01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,160 Speaker 1: sixty nine, Smithwick released the Robe Jerk bait, and that 1223 01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,960 Speaker 1: seems to have been the turning point when the Devil's 1224 01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,360 Speaker 1: Horse began to fade in the background. A couple of 1225 01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,560 Speaker 1: years later, Smithwick started making rubber worms, spinners, weights, and 1226 01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:17,320 Speaker 1: crank baits, and somewhere in this period the company seems 1227 01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,600 Speaker 1: to have stopped riding the horse that brown them. Though 1228 01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,360 Speaker 1: the Devil's Horse never went out of production, it faded 1229 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,040 Speaker 1: into the background, at least in certain parts of the country, 1230 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,760 Speaker 1: which is probably why Joe and I, a couple of 1231 01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,000 Speaker 1: lifelong anglers who came of age in the eighties and 1232 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,840 Speaker 1: nineties in the Northeast and West, had never heard of 1233 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,640 Speaker 1: this bait. But that's not the end of the story. 1234 01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,320 Speaker 1: Just because Joe and I weren't hipped to the horse 1235 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,080 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that other people stopped fishing them, or that 1236 01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:46,000 Speaker 1: they stopped catching fish. Solid chance that any Southern bass 1237 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,160 Speaker 1: heads listen to this are hollering at their phones or 1238 01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,920 Speaker 1: radios right now and calling me a complete moron, because 1239 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,640 Speaker 1: across those same states where the horse first gained popularity, 1240 01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,000 Speaker 1: it never really fell out of fashion. It has quietly 1241 01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,720 Speaker 1: remained a staple top water lure for big bass in 1242 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,640 Speaker 1: shallow water, even among some of the top pros. Unlike 1243 01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:07,880 Speaker 1: the wood shopper and other prop baits, the horse supposedly 1244 01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:12,360 Speaker 1: shines brightest when fished slowly in close proximity to weedy 1245 01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:16,360 Speaker 1: cover instead of retrieving it with aggressive rips and jerks 1246 01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,920 Speaker 1: like Joe described with the wood shopper, or burning it 1247 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 1: on the top like a buzz bait. Folks in the 1248 01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,880 Speaker 1: No fish the horse as a finesse lure, casting it 1249 01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,519 Speaker 1: tight to cover, letting it sit for several seconds, and 1250 01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:32,800 Speaker 1: working it painfully slow short twitches followed by long pauses. 1251 01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:35,439 Speaker 1: And here's where I feel like the story of the 1252 01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,840 Speaker 1: Horse really comes full circle. If you're deep in the 1253 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,760 Speaker 1: bass fishing scene, you've probably heard about spy baiting or 1254 01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:47,759 Speaker 1: spin baiting, a technical finesse presentation for highly pressured finicky bass. 1255 01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:51,360 Speaker 1: Developed in Japan in the mid two thousands, it became 1256 01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,400 Speaker 1: the hot new thing in the hardcore bass world about 1257 01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:59,040 Speaker 1: a decade ago. Spy Baits are long, cylindrical bait fish 1258 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:06,400 Speaker 1: shaped lures propellers in the front and the aft. Sound familiar, Yeah, 1259 01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,840 Speaker 1: just like the Devil's Horse, But hold up, spy baits sink, 1260 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:12,519 Speaker 1: and the Devil's Horse is known as the top water. 1261 01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:18,680 Speaker 1: Except the original horse was actually a subsurface lure, and 1262 01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:22,720 Speaker 1: smith Wick continued to produce various sinking models for many 1263 01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,559 Speaker 1: years after. Unfortunately, spy baiting wasn't a thing back then, 1264 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,679 Speaker 1: and because the top water models outsold the sub service versions, 1265 01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,679 Speaker 1: the original design eventually fell out of production. The only 1266 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,559 Speaker 1: horses made today are floaters, and that's kind of a shame. 1267 01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:42,559 Speaker 1: Smithwick was actually designing and fishing the hottest new lure 1268 01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:46,640 Speaker 1: for the smartest, most technical bass. He just did it 1269 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:55,000 Speaker 1: about sixty years too early. So that's all the time 1270 01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,720 Speaker 1: we have this week. And what you've just experienced was 1271 01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,559 Speaker 1: the true story, the true story of two complete fish 1272 01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,479 Speaker 1: bumps picked to live in a podcast and have their 1273 01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,719 Speaker 1: bullshit taped to find out what happens when a salty 1274 01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,960 Speaker 1: girl from the vineyard, a washed up bike messenger, and 1275 01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,080 Speaker 1: a guy who's dead used to throw lead a musky heads. 1276 01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:21,439 Speaker 1: Stop being polite and start getting real serious about reminding 1277 01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:25,760 Speaker 1: you do please keep those comments, questions, concerns, bar nominations, 1278 01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,759 Speaker 1: sale bin items, awkward photos and all that John coming 1279 01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,960 Speaker 1: to Bent at the meat Eater dot com. We love, 1280 01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,920 Speaker 1: love hearing from all of you, and don't forget we've 1281 01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:38,640 Speaker 1: always got eyes on those degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags. 1282 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,000 Speaker 1: Make us laugh, cry or barf with your posts and 1283 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,599 Speaker 1: we might set the sticker pack at you. Yeah, and 1284 01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,760 Speaker 1: if you're struggling to figure out what to say to 1285 01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:52,000 Speaker 1: us when you email our post. Just ask yourself to 1286 01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,920 Speaker 1: exa kind of got your phone stop