WEBVTT - Ep. 189: Boxing With the Last Grizzly 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.319 bog bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.600 can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.160 the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.440 Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:35.600 where you stand with on X. All right, folks, we're 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:40.000 here in Southern Colorado? Are you entroing the show? Yohnnie? 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.640 I just messing around starting I could though. That's all 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.479 I'm gonna say about it. Southern Colorado. Yeah, that's enough. Um. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:50.519 You know what I was thinking about recently, uh, that 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:51.839 I wanted to I think I kind of told you 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.920 about it already, but I thought you'd like it. As 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.840 I saw a dude he had a shirt. You know, 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.280 people will go to a um like the Super Bowl whatever, 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.400 or someone will win the Super Bowl, yes, and people 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.039 have a shirt they'll say, like the Bears, yeah, super 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.840 Bowl champions. I saw a guy recently that had a 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.280 shirt commemorating the fact that he watched that big Solary clips. 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.920 It was like Solary Clips two eighteen or whatever. You know, 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:22.720 I thought you'd appreciate you like that. I like it well, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:24.280 I thought you'd like it. I didn't give a shift. 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.280 I thought you'd like it. Oh you didn't your ship. 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.200 I mean I liked it, but like it as much 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.040 as I thought you'd like it. Yeah, we should make 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:37.920 something that just say, like Elk Season twenty nineteen. I 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.280 would be a good idea. Um, Remember we're talking about 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:48.240 me saying that you'll appreciate this seth the flip flop flasher, 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.240 me saying that I gave up on flip flops because 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.559 of someone saying, like, how are you going to rescue 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.600 your family? Yeah, or defend your wife? Or defend your 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.560 wife if you're wearing flip flops. I'd be curious to 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.200 get your take on this, Rock Denver, I have mixed feelings. 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.520 I definitely appreciate both sides of it. I lived in 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.880 Hawaii for about a year before I joined the Navy, 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.720 and flip flops is like general attire. I mean, that's 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.080 that's what you wear, whether it's a formal event or 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.600 you're on the beach or head of the beach, and 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.520 your feet become like belt radial. So I'd say, because 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.240 you get so much barefoot time over there as well, 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:23.880 So if you had to rescue your family over there, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.520 They're probably prepped to go barefoot if need be. Yeah. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:30.560 So I felt like at a time I probably had 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.560 that capacity for work, but now I live somewhere in between. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.840 I do like having the kit if things go wrong, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.520 I'm off the races, grabbing one kid, my brides grabbing 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.920 the other kid, and we're surviving the zombie apocalypse. But 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.800 I like a flip flop man, still flip flop. Yeah, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.320 I'm real torn on it. Man. Like I said, I 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:48.960 quit for a while, but I'm thinking about getting back 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:55.160 into it now because it's a wintertime now. Well, getting 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.600 back into it weather improves. But I took a little 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:03.079 break because my buddy Dave, um, my buddy Dave was 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.480 telling I think I told the story right. My buddy 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.880 Dave was telling a story where he was in He's 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.679 from Montana, but he was in New York and he 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.600 comes into a comedy club with his wife and he's 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.680 got his flip flops on, and the comedian on stage 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.720 brates him. It's like, where the hell are you from 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:24.520 because he was like surprised to see a guy wearing 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.799 flip flops in in the city. Yeah, I think I 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:30.560 don't think you should wear flip flops in New York 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:35.080 City because you're not prepared. We're not prepared. It's also dirty. Well, 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.120 he didn't like it, and that made my buddy Dave's 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.320 really questioned. And then I showed up and flip flops 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:41.360 and Dave was like, you are the last guy that 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.080 planet I thought would wear flip flops. What is going on? 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:48.240 Then I quit. So after talking about his flipop thing, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.280 we got two pieces of feedback from people UM, one 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.520 pro flip flop and one UH con flip flopper against 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.760 flip flop against flip flop guys talking about how last 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:02.000 December he UH comes home on his lunch break and 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.000 sees that there's a car park in his driveway and 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.280 his side gates open and the French doors in the 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.800 back of his house are open. And he credits his 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.320 leather boots with the fact that he had was emboldened 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.599 to run into his house and confront the intruder. And 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:19.479 he says that if he'd been wearing his flip flops, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.599 he would have been stuck out front calling nine on one. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.040 But he goes in. He's sure someone's in his house 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.839 robbing his house. He barrels into the house yelling, who's 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:32.080 at my house? And has met there by a dude 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:39.159 who burglar who is brandishing the guy's own seven like 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.520 the burglar ran in found his three fifty seven and 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.760 is holding his three seven. They get into a scuffle 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.280 and he knocks the glasses off of the guy and 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.320 then Hall's ass out of his house and runs away, 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.960 leaving the burglar in the house with the pistol. Later, 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.200 when the cops come over, they find that that the 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.760 glasses that the I knocked off during the scuffle, and 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:06.400 they're able to pull a DNA sample off the glasses 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:12.839 and catch a career burglar, and he credits his having 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.840 not had his flip flops on. But another guy is 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.760 talking about he takes his wife. This guy's in North Carolina. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:24.680 He takes his wife to some fancy resort and his 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.760 wife goes into the bathroom and he's sitting there eating 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:31.040 and sees that there's this rat scurring around and she's 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.159 not happy about the rat. He tells the waitress about 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.760 the situation. Eventually, the rat comes by and comes within 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.479 seven feet and he's got those big you know, those 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.239 big keen flip flops, like super heavy duty flip flops. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:44.640 He says he took that flip flop and Joe Joe 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.800 killed the rat hucking a flip flop at it. So 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.960 he said, in that case, it was his flip flops 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.960 that enabled him to defend his wife from the rat 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.760 from the big scary and they gave him a hunter 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.159 daughter credit. Oh there you go at the resort. So 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.240 you think he's gonna go back to that rat field resort. 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:10.279 So point being it's inconclusive weather. Flip flops, Um, you 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:15.720 know our appropriate attire. If we're making arguments on the 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.520 toughness of flip flops, I will say when stationed on 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.720 both coasts in the seal teams, the west coast of 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.360 the seal teams in mass wears flip flops at a high, 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.560 high level. So if you're just trying to like evaluate 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:35.359 the the raw toughness of those people that wear flip flops, 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.760 there's at least one subgroup that will live a large 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.360 portion of their life in flip flops whose toughness is 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:49.599 probably unquestioned, who are probably capable of defending their wives. Uh, 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:51.480 you read that book black Hawk Down, you might be 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.240 able to get some perspective on this. I know people 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.679 that were there. Yeah. I read the book Black Hawk Down, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:07:00.520 and in it, the author Mark bowden Um talks about 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:05.800 some developing tensions within the ranks of people in Somalia, 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.760 and one point of contention was that certain guys on 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.640 this base were allowed to wear flip flops while on 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:20.560 guard duty military that they would maybe not allowed, but 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:25.040 they were taking the liberty to stand there with a 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.480 flak vest. What do you call a flag vest? Yeah, flat, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.280 flat jacket. I mean that's old altar body arm. They 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:35.920 would have shorts, flip flops, a flak jacket while standing guard, 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.360 and other people from other units weren't allowed to do this, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.920 and it was creating some tension. There would be some 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.080 aesthetic of seeing somebody in that gear that would appeal 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.400 to me, and I would probably be equally piste that 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.360 they were in that outfit standing. So you'd look at 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.640 it and be like, yeah, yeah, like I like what 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.480 this guy believes in, and I would probably holler at 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.440 him to go put some combat books. That's some pants 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.440 um on the on the subject, on on the ongoing 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.560 subject of what to do with your dead body when 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:15.040 you die. This guy, he this guy writes in he 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.960 was talking about this with his wife, and his wife 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:24.000 proposed to him that she could take his ashes and 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.600 integrate him into a salt mineral lick and then put 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.200 like stir him into a mineral lick and put it 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.120 out so that that, uh, that's how his ashes could 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.440 go consumed by dear so that he could give something 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:42.000 back after all that they had given to him. That 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.240 I like it. Yeah, I like that too. Uh. Notthing 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:50.760 I wanted to talk about is, yeah, like I was 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:55.400 observing the air day an emerging trend. And this might 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.200 not even resonate with people who don't live in sort 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.720 of like posh mountain towns, But in posh mountain towns 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.120 there's an emerging mom being one of yeah, but I 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.440 mean catch them. Like all the posh mountain towns. There's 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:13.200 an emerging trend of of having your pickup truck and 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.360 and and instead of keeping your ship in your truck, 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.520 you strap it to the outside of your truck. And 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:21.599 I was observing this to you, and it seemed to 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.880 agitate your honest that I even had the audacity to 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.760 make the observation. You got pretty hot. You got pretty hot, 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.360 just like and just that's that's the part that got 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.240 me is that I couldn't believe that over such a thing, 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.320 that you were affected so much personally on the inside, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.400 Like I don't really care if you like it or 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:40.960 don't like it, but the fact that it sort of 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.000 affected you and that you were like really worked up, 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.280 that these people choose to do this, whether it's fashion 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.319 or for whatever reason. Fashion, yeah, it's fashion, but it's 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.600 just interesting to me to find that you like it 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.760 affects you so much. Yeah, you like, there's no way that, 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.000 Like where I grew up, where everybody, like you know, 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.480 all the people hunt for ride up drive pickup trucks, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.040 there's no way that what you do if you like 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:06.959 to hunt fish, you get a truck and you put 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.840 a top around it and then you put your your 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.880 stuff in there. But wasn't there a subset of that 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.839 group that would have some ksey lights even though they 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.440 really never really needed them, but they had freaking lights 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.480 on their truck with some lights would not be out 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.560 of the question, even though they really cruised around in 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.920 fashion doing whatever you do with and we would weld up, uh, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:37.480 we would weld up uh bumper guards that were excessive, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:45.280 Like you'd start with aid inch sea channel and weld 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.720 that to the frame, not like you start with aid 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.000 inch sea channel, raft around and then just build from 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:55.119 there and looking and at the time I didn't recognize 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.480 it as such, but to be totally honest, looking back 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.400 on it, there was a fashion element to who could 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:05.480 have the craziest brush guard? Yeah, now it's just that 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.520 who couldn't have the most overlake? What is it? It's 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.920 it called overland. I don't know. Yeah, I mean I 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:16.000 think it seems like yeah, yeah. The ear day, I 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.079 was sitting there and the guy pulls up. I was 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.120 looking out our office wind when the guy pulls up 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.920 and he's yeah. He looked like you're Samity sam Um, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:31.640 like all this ship, gas cans, water cans, shovels, pick axes, 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.800 but Jack all hooked it out and then like, what's 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.960 the inside the truck? I don't know, room for the 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:48.400 kayak or the stand up paddle. I just feel like 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.959 at my like like, I don't know, man, at forty 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.120 five years of age, I'm just hitting the age where 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.800 I look at stuff and I don't like it. But 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:57.480 I just look at the age where I just get 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.719 like like things will catch my eye and irritate me 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.800 a little bit that they shouldn't. And you're not there 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.120 yet because you're less, you're younger. Yeah, Seth was saying 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.920 for his rig. You know he's got a n f J, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:10.959 so it's a little bit. It is all your ship 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.200 strapped to the outside of your truck. No, nobody wants 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.800 you wish. I wish some ship was strapped to the 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:24.240 outside though. How old are you look? Sweet? We had 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.680 this conversation the other day in the car um and 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.599 there was two things that I would put on the outside, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.240 one being fuel canisters because it smells. It smells, and 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.079 the FJ has such a small tank that I'm always hauling, 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.680 Like if I go hunting, I throw my hitch carrier 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.360 in with a tank of gas on who makes that? 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.959 Who makes the your I know your rig? But what 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.560 what kind of rig is that? It's a Toyota f 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.599 Jake cruiser. You think it's a hunting rig? Oh it is. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.440 It's just a little small That's why I need ships 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.920 trapped on the outside. And you think it looks sweet? 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.719 Oh yeah, I like it. Yeah, it's a badass, a 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.240 little rake. No, I mean you think it'd be sweeter 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.360 if you had like pots and pans and ship hanging 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.679 off it. No, no, I don't need that ship. But 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.080 it's older, what what years? It's two seven, you know, 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.599 it's not like the old. It's not the old. Yeah. Um, 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.040 I could use fuel canisters and I wouldn't I wouldn't 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.760 mind having a pooie tent. Oh really, dude, tell me 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.439 about the tent. Why do you Why do you want it? 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.200 Because because he thinks it looks sweet. No, it's like 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:31.920 you get one of those like, oh my god, No, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.600 I'm gonna head down now. I'm already to go down 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.720 to the brew pub. No, dude. Most most of the 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.439 time when I'm going hunting on the weekends, like I'll 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.240 I like to hunt out in eastern Montana, bunch, So 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.920 we go out there. We'll roll up at like you know, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.040 ten eleven o'clock at night. You sleep under your vehicle. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.320 When I was your age, we slept under our trucks. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.640 Now we do that sometimes or in them. But it 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.800 would be nice for you if you slouch in the 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:00.520 front seat and sleep. It would be nice. When you 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.280 show up you're tired, You last thing you want to 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:03.880 do is put up a tent. You just pop up 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.760 the tapui and go to bed. You get under the 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.920 vehicle and sleep down there. You know, we're coming from 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.080 coming from a guy that's been looking at buying a 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:22.760 camper young children. Okay, well camper though, scamp I'm signed 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.760 yet maybe you look at had put it on from 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.640 in the middle of this crazy But I have young 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.240 children too, but I haven't gotten so soft as to 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:39.080 consider the idea of a camper yet, taking putting it 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.720 out there that, like, you know, there's just sort of 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.760 different levels. You can't say just because you have kids 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:45.240 all of a sudden, now it's like okay to have 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.640 a camper. And because he's eight and wants a tapui 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.520 tent makes him soft? Didn't sleep under his Okay, here's okay, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.080 I'm gonna put it the breath. Now I'm gonna put 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.800 the rest. But here's the thing say about it's like this, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.480 Why and I bring this up. I brought us up 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.320 a number of time, so we get some things. Why 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:06.720 is it that that that, uh, left wing people tend 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.960 to have more food allergies than right wing people, Like 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:16.440 I don't know, gluten intolerance is a left wing ailment? Okay? 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:21.320 Why do old people not like to puoi tense to 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:26.360 tense appeal to people to to They appeal to people 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.680 of a certain age bracket who live in a certain 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.640 kind of town. Yeah, but I think I'm gonna argue 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.880 that because because a guy that owns part of our 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.520 where our office is, is an overlander and is at 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.920 least ten years our senior, maybe fifteen, and he rocks 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.160 it to Pouie. I mean, but you gotta have money 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.480 to have one of these, and like that is that 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.480 that's your hobby. You gotta have money, man, and you that, like, 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.040 I mean, you can do it on the chief. Also, 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.880 I think it's like the Instagram sort of thing, you 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.640 know what I mean, And that's where the young people's 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.840 element of it comes in. It's like it's an Instagram thing. Dude. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.920 I'm an instagram man too. I love Instagram at Steve Ronella, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.080 I love it. I love it. Yeah, you're right, you're right. 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.280 Let's see, yeah we saw. Yeah. You know. It's like 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.520 my wife she doesn't let me talking to waitresses and 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.880 stuff anymore because I'm just too old, you know, to 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:27.920 like have any kind of chit chat. She's like, at 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:33.000 your age, if there's an attractive waitress, just shut up, 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:37.240 just like, just order what you need, Just order what 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.360 you need. You can't banter anymore. You're too old to 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.880 banter with waitresses. And I think I just need to 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.320 stop talking about this kind of stuff. But real quick, um, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.680 uh you wanna do you wanna try to sell your thing? 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.040 Your car? Right now? Oh? Yeah, I got a I 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.400 got a two thousand eighteen out back, sixteen thousand miles 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.680 on it. It's got a topper. It's got a two 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.480 leete upper. It's in Los Angeles. They're not called toppers. 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:10.200 What do you what do you call it? Cargo toppers? 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.639 Like bad car talk called topper. I used to call 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.720 it a pot. It's I got the pod pot on top. Dude, 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:20.800 you got a cargo carrier? Cargo carrier? Whatever is rocket box? Yeah, 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.520 it's a rocket box. Uh yeah, it's in What do 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.040 you need for it? It's in Los Angeles. Lazy jumpers, 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.080 Chris gil Ridge Pounder. I'm trying to get twenty two 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:37.200 for it. How the context is your Instagram? Do you 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.400 have a lot of pictures of you adventuring, no overlanding. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.840 It's got stock tired and no overlanding. So how do 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:49.679 they find you? They want to buy your rig at 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.240 Christopher gil on Instagram. Send me a message, M Yeah, 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.800 what else we got? Honest? I got one more? Yeah, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.000 we gotta get to No, no, I got one more, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.040 one more. I like to now and that like to 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.080 catch up on feedback stuff. A guy wrote in this 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.480 is good because this is a segue. Honnie. A guy 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.680 wrote in he works, he's security. He's like a security 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:15.600 guy Yelso National Park. And he gets uh complaint, He 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.320 gets a complaint just he says, like just last night, 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.960 I had to respond to a noise complaint from a guest. 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.399 And the noise complaint was, can you please do something 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:31.119 about that elk bugling near my hotel room? It's driving 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:36.200 me crazy? Uh, And I thought that was pretty funny. 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:38.920 And also at one point, as someone asked the guy, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.840 at what elevation do elk turn into moose um? But 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:45.360 there's this thing. I think there's this thing that keeps 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.480 happening to Yellowstone. Where it's a little bit confusing is 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.440 where people there's been a lot in the news of 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.720 people getting too close, like this year, like some guy 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.479 got his little girl like super close to a bison 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.760 in it threw up in the air and it keeps happening, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.440 and people keep and it seems like when it happens, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.000 there's sort of this thing where people are very quick 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:13.919 to condemn the individual and how stupid the individual is 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.639 for doing something so dangerous. Right, it's like the same story, 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.560 like this guy in BC has got arrested or got 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.760 a bunch of trouble because he got out I was 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:24.639 trying to have it. He was trying to box with 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.320 a grizzly bear. He's trying to taunt a grizzly into 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.959 a fight, you know, and he got in trouble, and 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.120 so in like Backpacker magazine is the big thing about 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.199 what an idiot this guy is and how horrible it is, right, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.880 how dangerous it is. But then like when I think 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.720 about this, and you'll talk about people being dangerous around animals, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.240 how can there be that? Like there's a movie about 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:54.560 a guy that free solos l cap. It's exceedingly dangerous, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.000 the most dangerous thing you could do, right, But then 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.480 he's like celebrated for being dangerous. Why is it that 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.399 you can do that and be celebrated and they're going 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.200 to give you an oscar and like you're the coolest 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:09.679 thing on the planet and you can do all the 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.960 talk shows, but if you want to box a grizzly, 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.520 you're like any of the people. I think because the 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:22.040 dude that climbed that mountain prepared over a lifetime to 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.119 develop a skill set to then go do said exceptionally 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:27.800 dangerous thing. Do you know that the guy that wanted 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.960 the box the grizzly didn't I don't guess it wasn't 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.960 Mike Tyson. Yeah, It's just like the thing that keeps happening. 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.440 I think. I think, like, I'm like, is danger cool 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.200 or not cool? Because if you want to if you 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:44.040 want to go pet a buffalo, oh my fine, yeah, No, 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.159 I'm for dangerous. It's not like you're wanting to stab it. 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:47.520 If you want to just go up and see how 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.760 close and see if it will gore you. I feel like, like, 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.080 I mean, not with a kid that that that was egregious. No, 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:53.840 that was like a bad call. And I don't know 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.000 about the kid's parents, but I just don't think it's 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.960 like that bad. If you if some person, like an 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.639 adult makes a con just a decision to go and 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.760 taunt an animal and then the animal gores him, I 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:08.199 don't know. Man, I look at it, like, you know, 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.000 I think people just set because you're fucking with an animal, 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.720 you're not you don't pose any danger to it. Well 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.240 I know, but it's like I think there's when you 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.000 compare it to something like Alex Hanold, who's like that's 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:21.720 like his he's like an athlete, that's like his thing, 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.720 and there's like that acceptance of risk that he takes, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:29.680 you know, and the people that typically do that. I mean, sure, 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.800 maybe the guy was preparing for his whole life to 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:33.679 box at grizzly bear. But will you ever watch the 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.840 movie Grizzly Project. No, but the guy that gets uh 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.000 in a skirmish with the grizzly and then designs a 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.480 suit that yeah wear and so that guy, Yeah, but 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.000 then he couldn't get a barried to attack him when 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.320 he had a suit on. That's a great movie. Yeah, 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.320 his buddy runs him over to pick up just to 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.600 test this. Yeah, yeah, I see that guy. But go on, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.679 I don't know, man, I think that. I think people 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.119 just when they see people messing with animals, like taunting 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.520 them to get attacked or something, or getting too close, 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:11.879 I think they get more defensive for the animal and 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.119 get angry at the person for being for like just 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.040 leave it alone. You know this the best they could 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.400 come up with in this article condemning the guy from 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:23.560 wanting to box the grizzly bear. The best they could 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.280 come up with it was that it was bad because 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:31.280 the grizzly bear then might expect to box other individuals 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.399 who weren't willing participants in the boxing. That's the best 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.240 they could come up with, and why it's bad to 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.800 go and like do they just mean mall yeah, but 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.439 then I'm sure that he's not gonna box. It's just 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.359 like you know, I you know, and I used to 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:49.879 do it too, Like when someone would get injured by 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.119 an animal, I'd be like, Oh, that idiot. But then 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:53.760 I start thinking like, I don't know, I don't think 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:55.800 it's safe to I don't think it's safe to feel 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.719 that way anymore, you know, like if you get up 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:00.840 close to if you want to go get up close 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:02.560 to a moose and see what happens and the moose 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:04.880 beats your ass, I think it should just be like, 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:08.320 you know, I just feel like I'd be like, oh, 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:10.960 that's that's a decision he came to. It's your decision, man, 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:17.000 it's like bull riders. Yeah exactly. Yeah, they hop on 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.119 a I don't know how two thousand pound bull that 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.560 wants to kick their ass every time. Yeah, I haven't 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:24.480 sorted it out in my head, but it just occurred 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.480 to me only yesterday when we were walking around. It 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.000 occurred to me only yesterday. Why does it bother me 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.040 when I hear about someone doing something stupid in a park? 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.160 And I started questioning myself. But I don't think bull right, Yeah, 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.639 I didn't think about that example. But yeah, bull riders aren't. 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.240 Um I think people could. I think there's a large 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.440 group of people that can that make the argument that 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:49.840 no offense any bull riders listening, that bull riders have 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:55.320 a they're not, you know, playing with a whole. I 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:59.240 don't say it's don't don't say this. I don't say this. 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:03.720 I have like a lot of respect and admiration from advocate. 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.359 I'm just playing Devil's advocate. I don't have any problem 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:10.960 with bull riders. Yeah, I think that's like that is 0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:12.879 like what I would have liked to have done with 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:20.920 my life. Man, about taunting of animals, yes, I mean 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:23.920 that's some serious taunting. But I'm totally fine and I'm 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:25.400 fine with going up if you want to go petal 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.280 Buffalo and gets smashed like I just I'm done acting like, 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:32.200 oh those stupid people, because I get caught in that trap. 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.719 And the thing is, there's like this thing going on 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.800 where a single hour people like oh and yeah, you know, 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:41.119 and Yellowstone or whatever, and National parks. They're like people 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.240 think they're like theme parks. They don't realize that the 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:49.800 animals are wild animals. But the but the same people 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:51.800 who are most likely to point that out, in the 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:55.159 same institutions that create that thing, are actually fostering and 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.520 developing that sense that wildlife is somehow a theme park, 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:02.480 you know, coming from the same thing. It's like you're 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:05.199 creating this thing and then condemning people for sort of 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.480 going along with what it is. Like you create an 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:11.320 environment wildlife it's totally habituated, but then you get mad 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:16.800 at people who think that it's habituated. Mm hmm. It's 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.320 a good point. Yeah, it's a hard it's a hard 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:24.600 thing to um saws out man. We used to chase moose. 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:28.760 I don't know why. That's not smart. No, we were younger. 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:31.040 We would chase him. Yeah, if you saw him you 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.679 chase them. See how close you get to him. Well, 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:36.159 if you didn't know they were danging, I mean no, 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:38.600 I knew, moose don't seem dangerous. We knew a lot 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:40.120 of people don't know that. It was just like we'd 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:43.240 it was like bull riding. It was like bull riding. Yeah, 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:45.720 oh yeah, he kick us off more. We're supposed to 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:48.359 talk about sometimes the bull chases you, though, doesn't it. 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:56.080 Steve mhm um Colorado Conlo threw over one cut, threw 0:25:56.080 --> 0:26:00.199 out one more. Listener feedback on last one last, This 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:01.480 is a good one. I was talking about my brother 0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:03.639 in law hitting the blue gill when he was barefoot skiing. 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:06.560 A guy rolled in. He was at a ski tournament 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:09.560 and um, he had a bad fall and broke a 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:11.760 couple of vertebra and he doesn't ski anymore. But he 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:14.360 was at a tournament on Pearl River in Louisiana one 0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:16.439 time and there was a guy doing some warm up 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:20.840 runs and he ran over an alligator and it removed 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:27.679 the right heel of his foot. Forty hit alligator, peeled 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:30.680 his heel off. That's the last bit of listener for people. Man. 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:34.439 I have to add that one of the greatest like 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:38.160 seeds of fear that I feel like it was ever 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:39.679 planning to me as a kid as I grew up 0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.600 in the Bay Area, California, and Tahoe's you know, up 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:43.919 the hill in this SI areas. We go up there 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:47.760 skiing and trout fishing and stuff like that. My dad 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:50.399 shared a story with me. I don't know why it 0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.240 wouldn't be true, but that you know, the rattlesnakes up there, 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:55.280 and the winner will find a den, you know, den 0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:58.000 up hundred whatever, couple hundred rattlesnakes in the den they 0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:01.719 stay warm through the winter. And that's somehow on Donner Lake. 0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:05.480 But they're cold blooded. Huh do rattlesnakes? But no, I 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:08.800 know they Yeah, I might not, I might not have 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.120 the right reason for them doing that, but they're done up. 0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:15.000 That's yeah, that's seen it. But I've heard enough about 0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:16.959 it that it's like they like to ball up, ball up, 0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.000 and that apparently Donner Lake, which is right you know, 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:21.800 before you get to Taho Lake on the way up 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:27.280 into the Sierras, some manner of the snowfall and runoff 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:33.680 brought one of these balls of rattlesnakes into Donner Lake, 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:36.760 and that maybe this is one of my dad that 0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:38.360 told me this. Now as I'm saying it, I don't 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:39.679 feel like this is on my dad was saying, but 0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:43.119 that a water skier fell into that water skiing and 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:45.480 the like fell into that and the snakes just started 0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:47.719 like lightening them up. The snakes have gone into the lake. 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:49.879 It's definitely not my dad as I hear myself telling 0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:53.280 this story. But as a kid stuck in your mind, 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:56.440 Oh my, I mean, I never, never when I think 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:57.960 the rest of my life be up on a pair 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.760 of water skis or up doing something on a lake 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:03.520 where I have not at least committed a moment's thought 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:09.440 to the idea of a ball of rattlesnakes floating out there. Horrible. 0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:12.920 So let's talk about time Matt trying to catch a 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:16.639 snake out of a hole. No, he my brother was 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.840 hunting and a snake. He sees a rattlesnake going into 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:23.080 a hole, and he's never eating a rattlesnake. Always want 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:24.520 to eat a rawls snakes. So he grabbed the back 0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:30.760 end of the rattlesnake and tries to get it back 0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:35.160 out of the hole, but the snake breaks and outcomes 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:41.200 a couple of baby rattlesnakes. They attack him, Yeah, he says. 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:43.840 They come out of there and instantly are coming at him, 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.600 trying to out of the snake that broke in half. Yes, 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:50.800 whoa trying to bite him? Wait, the snakes came out 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.600 of the other snake. Yeah, he was trying to jack 0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:57.640 the snake up out of a hole. I couldn't get 0:28:57.640 --> 0:29:00.240 it out of the hole. Broke the snake out. Aime, 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:06.200 some snakes who are then coming at him, and then 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:07.920 he had the tail of the one he had the 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:10.560 you know, and then it goes on from there, some 0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:17.920 nightmare stuff. I don't remember. He was he was reminiscent 0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:20.040 about this the other day. Yeah, I was. He was 0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:21.720 telling me that story the other day. Am I getting 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:25.600 it right? Yeah, you're saying top out and they're ready 0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:28.960 to attack. Yes, that is some total recall. And if 0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:31.440 I'm um not mistake, I believe they say those are 0:29:31.440 --> 0:29:33.520 the ones you gotta watch out for, right because they 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:36.760 can't control their their venom. I've heard that might be 0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:39.400 a misnomer, that that is well, that maybe they can't 0:29:39.400 --> 0:29:42.120 control the venom, but that is it is genuinely just 0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:44.640 builds up to the bigger the snake, the more venom 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.440 is coming at it is being produced inside the body, 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:49.040 which makes a lot of sense to me. But I've 0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:53.160 heard that many many times. Okay, introl the show. Intro 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:56.880 the show. I'm here with Stephen Ronnella, No as, I'm 0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:59.520 dealon card. Just we like to do here Danny Schmidt's 0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:05.360 honest first ever meat Eater Shoot Cameraman, cameraman, give give 0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:10.040 us a quick run, give us quick career synatis oh man, Well, 0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:11.760 do a lot of wildlife work. I do a lot 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:13.960 of wildlife work. I do a lot of science work, 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.680 s coom sort of science communication stuff, although science comedy. 0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:21.920 Oh yeah, it's all funny. It's kind of like rom coms, 0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:28.960 s coom, SIcom, science communications, science communication. I went to 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:34.040 school for documentary film first Scientists, so you have a 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:37.160 lot of background in communicating about science and working outside 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:41.720 and uh yeah, First Meat Eater went pretty well. You 0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:45.800 like thrashers Instagram page? Yeah? Could you like to look 0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:48.560 at cool skate videos? I watched skate videos pretty much 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:54.080 all day. Um, I haven't worked in skateboarding film yet, 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:55.320 but I think it'd be sweet. You know what. It 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:57.840 didn't get a sense from as you've You've had a 0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:00.920 lot of through your work, You've had a lot of 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:04.680 intersections with wildlife politics and whatnot. But then I haven't 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:06.240 gotten a sense over the last few days of you 0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:11.480 being like outwardly opinionated about wildlife politics. Have you just 0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:14.120 been biting your tongue as we're always spouting off about 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:17.400 how everything I ought to be with animals? No, I mean, 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:20.800 have I said anything those deeply offensive? No? I haven't 0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:25.720 been offended yet. Uh. Well, I mean it's not black 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:27.640 and white. I think we've talked a lot about elk 0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:30.240 and the feed grounds in Wyoming, and I think that's 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:33.479 a super gray situation. And you worked on a project 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:37.080 down here about wolf ree introduction. I did. I can't 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:42.000 talk a whole lot about it. Sorry, Uh yeah, I 0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:46.280 don't like that. It doesn't matter what I think. Go ahead, Yeah, 0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:48.480 I worked on a project about wolf free introduction to 0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:51.560 the thought of wolf fore introduction in Colorado. Did you 0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:55.000 get into the pros and cons? Oh for sure? God, yeah. 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:57.400 You do some feed out, some stuff about feeding out 0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.720 during the winter. Did a bit. My second year project 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:03.400 in film school was about the elk feed grounds in Jackson, 0:32:04.120 --> 0:32:06.719 and I went into that like I think I had 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:10.840 five thousand bucks to make this film. Totally like went in. 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:13.160 I didn't know a whole lot about it except that 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.800 they're these feed grounds existed. There's twenty five thousand elk 0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:20.600 being fed every year in Wyoming, and obviously that's going 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:22.720 to present a lot of problems. But man, once I 0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.920 dug into it, it was there's a lot more to 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:30.720 it than just stopping feeding elka. So well, it started 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:34.000 out as as I'm sure you're well aware, tell us 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:39.200 why it started out. Well, it started out because the 0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:41.480 city of Jackson Hole, the town of Jacksonal was trying 0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.360 to form. It was in the early nineteen hundreds and 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:47.200 it was kind of one of the last places where 0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:54.000 wildlife could live bison and elk, and they it was 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:57.240 the era of Teddy Roosevelt, and they wanted to keep 0:32:57.280 --> 0:32:59.960 these animals around. There was a conservation ethic that was developing, 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:06.040 and uh, but they these farmers and ranchers also needed 0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:09.960 this great winter habitat to raise their cattle, and so 0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:14.920 they decided they could feed the elk over here and 0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:18.640 still maintain these herds and keep the elk out of 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:21.240 their out of their winter range, and out of their hey, 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:24.280 in order to decrease tensions. In order to decrease tensions, 0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:27.960 you have to keep them separate. And so a hundred 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.800 years later, that situation still exists and there's less and 0:33:30.880 --> 0:33:35.560 less winter range for these elk ah And in that time, 0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:38.520 the people of Wyoming have gotten used to having a 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:42.880 huge elk population. But every piece of alfalfa you put 0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:46.680 out there creates is essentially it's like making habitat that 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:52.280 doesn't really exist, right, So, not to mention, the hunters 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:56.760 in Wyoming love to have that massive hurt, and so 0:33:56.840 --> 0:34:00.840 to undo this hundred year policy of feeding elk all 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:05.560 over the state is super super tough. But along the 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:10.000 way these elk have I mean, they're they're perpetuating a 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.120 lot of disease right, brusualosis and scabies and foot rot, 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:17.480 and of course the big threat is chronic wasting disease 0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:21.040 makes it to one of these feed grounds, and that's 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:23.520 like a time bomb. Like nobody knows what that would do, 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:25.040 what it would look like. Is it going to kill 0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:28.040 all the elk? What's the prevalence rate in a herd 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:32.359 like that? But wildlife disease experts will tell you, like 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:38.200 concentrate any animal artificially with huge numbers in a place 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:41.080 they can't hold them, and you're gonna get diseases are 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:44.440 gonna pop off. So yeah, I made this film. It's 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:47.480 on PBS. It's called Feeding the Problem. I got a 0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:54.120 hundred DVDs in a Boxer title man. Yeah, yeah, you know, 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:57.080 you come right out punching with that title. So I 0:34:57.120 --> 0:34:59.680 tried to make a film that was that was pretty balanced. 0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:03.640 Interviewed a bunch of ranchers and outfitters and scientists and 0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:07.920 feed ground managers. But obviously I went into it thinking, 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:10.160 you know, I come from a science background. I thought, 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.200 this seems like a bad idea, doesn't seem natural. Obviously 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:16.799 it's a it's entrenched politically, but there's gotta be some 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:18.439 way to sort of back out of it and find 0:35:18.480 --> 0:35:22.040 some middle ground. So anyway, I made this movie, premiered 0:35:22.080 --> 0:35:25.759 it in Jackson Hall, and that premiere was such a 0:35:25.800 --> 0:35:30.000 trip because I had like the whole anti feed ground 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:32.760 establishment come to this premiere. It was at the Wildlife 0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:35.440 Art Museum in Jackson and then I didn't know this 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:39.360 who's gonna happen? But I had like the whole hunting, guiding, 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:44.960 ranching community also show up there they were picked good. Yeah. 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:46.360 I had somebody come up to me. We had a 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:49.640 reception beforehand. These guys come up to me and they're like, 0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:52.080 you know, we've been talking about stringing you up for 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:57.120 making this film. I'm like, holy shit. First of all, 0:35:57.480 --> 0:35:59.520 you can make your own film that says whatever you want, 0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.640 like everything anybody can make of film. And I wasn't 0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:05.359 throwing anybody under the bus. I gave everybody a chance 0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:09.040 to spout off about whatever they wanted, and uh man, 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:11.319 it was a good lesson. It was a good like 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:15.160 my first, my first foray in the documentary about a 0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:21.160 sticky controversial subject, and I think it moved the needle 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:23.719 forward a little bit. I think it got the conversation going. 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:29.359 They sell the DVDs in the National Refuge gift shop. Yeah, yeah, 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:32.600 in the Elk Refuge gift shop. I mean because I 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:35.799 interviewed like the Elk Refuge manager and like, you know, 0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:38.239 it was a kind of a big deal during the 0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:40.520 year that we were filming down there. So when you're 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:42.960 out filming with us, now, uh, do you feel it's 0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:45.879 just like rinky dink fluff bs. You can't really You're 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:47.320 not gonna be able to answer that. Honestly, I'm just 0:36:47.360 --> 0:36:51.600 throwing it out there. No, I don't think so. You know, 0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:58.720 I'm interested in any and everyone's interpretation of of experiencing nature. 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:02.040 So or it's a burder or an elk hunter, or 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:05.480 a scientist tagging buffalo or whatever it might be. Like, 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:07.799 I think it's all interesting and part of the big 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:11.040 picture of how humans and nature intersect. So, yeah, you 0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:14.680 just had a big argument about Doug Peacock Doug Pica. Right, 0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.160 let's not recap it. Yeah, okay, as a little deal 0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:22.279 in poker, Seth Morris, Howdy folks, flip flap flasher, Flash 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:25.320 flip flop flasher. Seth was just talking about his favorite 0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:27.200 sound is the sound of a hard pulling his head 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:33.080 out of a feed been music to my ears. Yeah, 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:36.719 let's leave that one. If you need to know what, 0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:39.960 you can write him in. That's like dollars coins is 0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:41.920 dropping into if you know, if you know what, if 0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:45.280 you know what, you know it, I'll just I'll just say, 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:51.239 give people a quick recap. You've been on the show 0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.440 before a long time ago. That was a very party 0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:55.520 when you were on, it was a very popular show 0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:59.040 for us. People liked it. I like that life is service. 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:04.200 Explain your deal. Yeah, man, Uh, I feel like even 0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:06.200 though I'm not on the payroll for you know, family 0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:08.880 member of meat Eater, now I hope I'm on that ledger. 0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:12.319 I met you guys through uh some work you and I, 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:13.640 you know, Steve and I have been doing with a 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:16.000 knife company, and then we bumped our way into a 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:19.400 show hunting bears up up in Alaska, and then have 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:23.280 just stayed you know, connected and built friendship and relationships 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.279 with the whole crew. And my my last life was 0:38:25.360 --> 0:38:28.000 a commander in the in the seal teams. So I 0:38:28.040 --> 0:38:31.480 spent twenty years thirteen active years, twenty total years with 0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:33.880 my time in the reserves, both running assault teams and 0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:36.160 then kind of running the training for the basic and 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.359 Advanced course of seals and how they how they become 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:39.960 seals and get to the battlefield and go do the 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:45.400 nation's work. And I'm a writer, uh thinker savage gentleman 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:49.600 tell the books. Damn Few is the first book making 0:38:49.600 --> 0:38:53.920 the modern Seal Warrior, which talks a little bit autobio autobiographical, 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.759 but very much unlike well, I shouldn't I shouldn't say 0:38:57.760 --> 0:38:59.799 that I compared to other Seal books very much trying 0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:02.160 to hit the high points of what I learned philosophically 0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:04.120 and what I believed in and what I think seals 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:06.680 believe in, and why they why they do do do 0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:08.319 what they do, what why we do what we do, 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:10.200 how we feel about our families, how we feel about 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:13.279 service the country, um, how we impact the world. So 0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:15.400 I talked a lot about that. And then the second 0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:18.160 book is called Worth Dying for a Navy Seals Called 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:19.680 to a Nation, and that one is a little bit 0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:22.120 more outward looking as far as you know where the 0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:26.439 country is going and security throughout the world, talk talk 0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:28.440 about my experiences on the battlefield, talk about I have 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:30.279 a whole chapter on killing, which is one of my 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:33.200 favorite chapters, just kind of organically came up in the 0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:36.439 writing of it, and UM, I take that pretty seriously. So, yeah, 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:38.480 those are the those are the reads. And now I 0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:40.520 do a lot of speaking in the kind of corporate 0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:42.560 space and trying to figure out what that next ridge 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:44.520 line is. I I enjoy that. I'll keep doing that. 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:46.719 If you if you call I'm coming, uh you know, 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:48.360 if you're the right the right people to talk to you, 0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:51.400 but I'm I'm I feel like I'm at a transitional 0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:53.960 points to what's uh, what's the next adventure? Yeah, you 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:55.600 know what do two things too? We talked about it 0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:57.560 before we do it again. Talk about the talk about 0:39:57.600 --> 0:40:00.440 the movie you guys had Do, which is funny, not funny, 0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:02.200 but like it's a funny story. Yeah, how it came 0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:04.920 about and the repercutions of it. And then and then 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.000 talk about your speaking thing because people should know about that. Yeah, 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.480 Active Valor was the movie two thousand twelve ish. A 0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:13.640 bunch of us were, you know, at the training compound 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:16.120 running training for the seals. So you're in about as 0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:17.839 close to a nine to five job as you can 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:19.759 get if you're a seal operator. You know, if you're 0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:22.319 at the team, you're just preparing for war, at war, 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:25.279 coming back, unpacking your gear, cleaning and getting ready to 0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:27.560 go to war again. When you go to a training compound, 0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:29.080 you're kind of that spot where you're raising up the 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:31.359 young lins and evaluating them and figuring out who's gonna 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:33.719 make it through the program and get to uh um, 0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.640 get to the assault teams and so. But that job 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:38.719 is you know, hard pointed there in San Diego, and 0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:41.359 you're not gonna you know, unless we go to war 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.960 with North Korea or something, then probably everybody's going. You're there, 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:46.719 so you have an opportunity to do other things. I 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:48.439 guess if if you want to do that in your life. 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:50.040 And so this film company had come in to do 0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:52.759 just help upgrade a website, you know, the Seals. This 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:55.680 was all amongst This was pre the bin Lon raid, 0:40:56.560 --> 0:40:58.360 right in and around the time of Captain Phillips and 0:40:58.360 --> 0:40:59.960 all that stuff. So I mean, I think the Sealing 0:41:00.239 --> 0:41:03.520 the Seals stock or you know kind of notoriety was 0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:07.920 was becoming more there's more awareness of it, but still 0:41:07.960 --> 0:41:11.160 pretty much in the shadows. And then um, you know, 0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:13.160 the B line rate obviously blew it wide open. But 0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:16.759 our our organization was actually losing more people, are not 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:19.439 getting enough new folks coming into the training program as 0:41:19.480 --> 0:41:22.120 we're kind of getting older and trailing off. So we 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:24.000 were having a recruiting problem. We we just and then 0:41:24.000 --> 0:41:27.120 and there really wasn't enough about what Seals do on 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:29.120 the battlefield or what we do as a community that 0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:31.960 would lend to someone know and know why I want 0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:33.920 to go do that for a living, and hopefully the 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:37.160 right people are recruiting problem because what's the what's the 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:40.480 pass rate of people who even enter the elimination about 0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:46.080 make it so about attrition through training over since the 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:48.480 six you got to generate big numbers. It helps to 0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:51.520 have good numbers, the right numbers is probably the better 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:53.359 way to put it. Like, can you get the right 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:55.359 product to the front door, hoping you get more out 0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:57.480 the back door. We haven't figured out a way to 0:41:57.520 --> 0:41:59.160 skin that cat. It's it's kind of one of those 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:02.600 things where we've we've had scientists and sports physiologists and 0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:04.799 which doctors in that place look at it. What's gonna 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:07.799 get what's gonna get somebody through training? And nobody's I mean, 0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:09.760 everybody has their own opinion as to what it takes. 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.920 And um, it's hard to kind of quantify because you 0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:15.360 have so many different personalities that come to that place, 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:18.480 and so many different personalities come through there. There's obvious 0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:22.480 elements that you have to have grit, toughness, focus, no 0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:24.200 quit kind of in your d n A. But I 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:26.200 mean people come with that from a lot of different places. 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:28.800 And I came from a very healthy kind of growth 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.759 and environment and parents and family, very very competitive athletically. 0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:34.640 But I mean I have buddies that you know, had 0:42:34.640 --> 0:42:36.839 parents that just beat on them and said you'd never 0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:39.040 be nothing, you'll never amount to nothing. And they're pretty 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:40.839 too tough to beat in training too. So it's all over. 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:43.480 I got an acquaintance you made it through and I 0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:45.759 was asking about what he felt that it was and 0:42:45.840 --> 0:42:47.600 he said it was because he liked to surf a lot. 0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:51.640 He said he just didn't mind sitting in cold water 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:53.919 for a long time, and cold water for a long time, 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:56.799 that's gonna give you a tremendous leg up that that's 0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.520 probably what gets rid of most people. But so anyway, 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:00.880 this film come when he came in to kind of 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:03.359 help build a website and a little bit of this 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:05.000 is who we are, what we do, and you know, 0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:07.600 if you want to come do it, here's here's here's 0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:09.640 how to call this kind of thing. And then somehow 0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:14.520 that morphed into this idea of doing a bigger film. 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:17.640 So the film company actually interviewed about thirty of us 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:21.080 at the basic training compound, just to do background knowledge 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.279 of of what makes seal seals. You know, where you 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:25.279 came from, what you believe in, how you feel about 0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:27.480 your family, the country, so on and so forth. Not 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:30.040 very much in the weeds on operational stuff, but it 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:33.400 it drifted into that very casual like all of us 0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:35.160 went down the beach, you know, sitting in front of 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:37.239 a camera, just like we did the past couple of days. 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:38.799 Talked a little bit about but this is all starting. 0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:42.360 You're being asked to do, told to do, told told 0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:44.480 to do, told to do. Yeah, that was that. There 0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:46.879 was not not an invitation to go to go out 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:48.960 on the beach and do that. But at that point 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:50.759 it was just this is just it's never gonna be 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:52.399 used for anything. They're gonna film it so they can 0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:54.239 kind of make sure they get it right when they 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:56.200 go to make this movie. They were going to finish 0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:58.439 those interviews, go back up to l A and start 0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:01.120 trying to find the right Hollywood person to play us 0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:04.319 or play the guys. And when they got done with 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:07.279 those interviews, went back to l A. L A did 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:10.120 all the editing. The two directors like, I think it's 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:12.840 gonna be easier to teach seals to act than actors 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:14.520 would be seals, if we want to get this right, 0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:18.080 And so then they came and asked us to do it. Everybody, 0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:20.640 to a man said no, every single person that was 0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.279 in that film said absolutely not, it's not what we do. 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:26.200 But then senior leadership put a little more pressure on, 0:44:26.320 --> 0:44:28.279 like it's gonna happen. And so one of my one 0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:29.600 of my teams that was in the movie, he made 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:31.520 a really good comment. One more and we're getting coffee, 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:33.200 he said, you know, he said, one of the problems 0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:37.640 I see that is gonna happen is I know who 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:39.600 you are, sir, Like I know your background, I know 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.239 the way the boys feel about you, I know the 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.520 way I feel about you. I know your combat record, 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:46.680 and and you know the teams you've been with, which 0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:49.399 you know are are pretty serious teams that have done 0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:53.680 good things on the battlefield. And everybody that they've asked 0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:57.319 are those guys. If we say no, like if if, 0:44:57.360 --> 0:45:00.000 if we don't do it, they're gonna get six seven 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:02.240 guys to do it. It will be the worst people 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:04.719 in the community that say yes, Like for sure, it'll 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:07.000 be the guys that already have the Facebook page and 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:09.359 an agent and want to go to Hollywood, and we'll 0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:10.960 use that as a launch pat And he's like, and 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:12.759 that is going to be a train wreck. We'll have 0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:15.600 the worst people in our community representing the community and 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:17.799 that that actually resonated. I had already gone back to 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:19.560 grad school. I knew at that point I was kind 0:45:19.560 --> 0:45:21.560 of ready to go make my way. I want to 0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:23.319 be around my bride, my kids, and it was time 0:45:23.360 --> 0:45:25.680 for something new. I've done. I turned over every stone 0:45:25.680 --> 0:45:28.440 I wanted to turn over in my my my seal experience, 0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:30.000 you know, everything beyond that, which is not to say 0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:31.520 I wouldn't have learned a lot more and it would 0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:34.319 have been purposeful, good work. Beyond that, it was just 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:36.520 time I didn't. I was ready to go, and so 0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:38.640 I didn't really think, oh, this movie will kick over 0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:40.800 tons of kick open tons of doors. I mean, we 0:45:40.800 --> 0:45:42.320 thought they were gonna make that movie and it was 0:45:42.360 --> 0:45:44.239 gonna go straight to like the bottom bin of a 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:48.600 DVD like two buck you know, Walmart. I mean we're like, 0:45:48.640 --> 0:45:50.400 there's no way this thing. It ends up being the 0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:53.839 number one movie in America, you know, Major theatrical lease 0:45:53.880 --> 0:45:57.359 and whatever. So um so, yeah, we we participate in that. 0:45:57.400 --> 0:45:59.920 We tried to get you guys, did we talked about sports, 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:01.759 But I think it's the funniest part of the things 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:04.719 you didn't is all military pay. Oh yeah, man, we 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:12.000 got we got military pay and three square meals a day. Man, 0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:14.279 you feel like this big movie, all these theaters, the 0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:17.839 lower place. Oh my god, man, your little not your 0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:20.640 little check. But there's no like, no, no, I mean 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:23.600 I think, uh, I think, all well, I shouldn't speak 0:46:23.600 --> 0:46:25.279 for anybody else. I felt good about it because it 0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:27.799 felt like since we were put on orders, it felt 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:29.759 like any other job that somebody would have adked that 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:31.760 that they would have asked us to do in the military, 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:34.279 and being based on you know, my job, like, hey, 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:35.960 go do that. That's what we get paid to do, 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:37.319 so we're gonna go do that. It happened to be 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:40.560 making a movie, made a lot of other people a 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:42.480 lot of money, and anyway, it was in that movie 0:46:42.960 --> 0:46:47.239 launch an acting career. Um. You know, I got a 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:50.319 lot of I guess offers afterwards, our opportunity to go 0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:51.759 do it. It just didn't appeal to me. I mean, 0:46:51.800 --> 0:46:55.279 it wasn't something I like. Um, I mean, I like 0:46:55.840 --> 0:46:58.320 you're doing stuff like this, I like, you know, speaking 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:00.839 and talking and um, you know, I've done a TV 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:02.960 show since and if the right project came up, I'd 0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:06.040 do it again, acting like actual just acting as a 0:47:06.040 --> 0:47:08.920 as a UM, you know, character actor had no appeal 0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:11.000 to me whatsoever. I think, you know, a bunch of 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:14.440 the bunch of the guys were extras and transformers, movies 0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:16.879 and all that kind of stuff, operators, not major roles, 0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:19.080 but in that stuff. But I don't think anybody parlayed 0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:22.319 it into an actual um career. I mean a bunch 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:24.320 of the guys stayed, you know, I mean I stayed 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:27.359 for I stayed for two years. After that. I thought 0:47:27.400 --> 0:47:28.879 I was gonna get out right away. I actually stayed 0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:31.080 two years longer. The people dog on you for doing 0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:33.279 it it, you know, the thing that was good about 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:37.359 it is yes, of course, of course. The nice thing 0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:41.560 was in general, after the initial busting of balls and 0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:44.080 giving you a hard time, it kind of came back 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:46.359 to what that buddy mine who's a mass chief now said, 0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:48.120 And they're like, well, I'll tell you what, man, if 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:49.759 somebody's gonna do it, I'm glad you were rapping us 0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:55.520 as opposed to you know, somebody else. Um. I had 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:57.000 some other question about that. Now I can't here what 0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:59.839 the hell it was about the fallout, not to fall 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:03.520 up with just the repercussions of doing it. You know, 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:05.880 they're they're they're they're good arguments across the board on 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:08.399 both you know, doing it not doing it. I mean 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:13.520 the back end of how many good young Lions now 0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:18.600 came to the program, because that's ask what was it 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:22.640 regarded as a successful move for recruitment, Like overwhelmingly so 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:24.839 I got a bunch of people into the door. Yeah, 0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:26.719 Like we had to start at the door. We had 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:29.120 to start creating. Well, what it allowed us to do 0:48:29.160 --> 0:48:30.960 is instead of having a pool of candidates that we 0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:33.439 didn't really know who they were before once they entered 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:36.120 the program as best we could evaluate them, we actually 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:40.160 had to almost establish another program to weed and kind 0:48:40.160 --> 0:48:42.799 of pick the best hundred fifty or some odd guys 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:45.120 to go to each class. And there's only seven classes 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:47.640 I go through a year, and so we were able 0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:50.319 to actually select now what we thought would be the 0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:53.120 best candidates, so to try and get better people to 0:48:53.160 --> 0:48:54.600 the front board to get more to the back door. 0:48:54.800 --> 0:48:58.479 It moved the needle a little bit on graduation rates. 0:48:58.560 --> 0:49:01.560 But um, yeah, it worked. I mean it definitely works. 0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:07.160 That's interesting. Yea, as the deal in Poker Rich, I'm 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.320 sulposed to introduce myself. Yeah, and you're kind of like 0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:13.640 done working for us now, man, come on, I'm glad 0:49:13.680 --> 0:49:16.680 I got the last one. Chris. Uh, he's got something. 0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:18.080 You can't tell us what he's going to do because 0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:20.040 he's got some endia. That's all right, there's like an 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:23.520 India and disclosure agreement. Yeah, I can't talk about it, 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:25.800 kind of like Danny can't talk about his Wolf project. 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:31.400 Yeah yeah, signed it get in trouble if I start talking. 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:33.560 So listeners that have grown accustomed to your presence are 0:49:33.600 --> 0:49:36.360 just gonna be deprived of you know. Yeah, they're just 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:40.920 gonna have to try to buy my subar. All right, 0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:46.720 kick it off because it's got your project down here, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:49.040 it was my project. We've been trying to get his 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:55.359 hunt done for a few years at least three right, yeah. Um, 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:58.279 And we messed up because we didn't know. We didn't 0:49:58.360 --> 0:50:02.920 understand the Colorado dross is the well enough um because 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:06.719 you're a nonresident Rooks, a resident of Colorado, and you 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:10.040 guys are applying as a group, which what was happening 0:50:10.040 --> 0:50:12.439 in Colorado. There's a preference point system when you try 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:18.080 to draw a tag that is, um a, uh, what's 0:50:18.160 --> 0:50:22.120 what I'm looking for? Limited? Yeah? Limited? Tag, right, So 0:50:22.160 --> 0:50:29.320 it was just more it's more demand than opportunity. And uh, 0:50:29.640 --> 0:50:32.080 there's preference points. So once you get preference points, if 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:34.080 you have to and your buddy only has one, you're 0:50:34.120 --> 0:50:36.200 gonna draw it before they do. And so however many 0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:38.040 people put in with the most points, they're gonna get 0:50:38.080 --> 0:50:41.080 all the tags before the lower numbers. Well, when you 0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:44.600 guys put in as a group, um, you guys are 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:47.719 taking like a double hit because Rourke was being put 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.120 in as a nonresident, because you go sort of go 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:52.840 to the lowest common denominator, so you were going he 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:54.799 was getting put in as a nonresident because he was 0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:56.640 thrown in with a non resident and they didn't want 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.840 to elevate. Conversely, you'd have to elevate the non residents 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:02.799 resident status. Was just gonna piss people off totally. And 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:05.640 you had like two or three or maybe four more 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.440 points than Rourke to draw the tag. But because you 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:10.719 guys were getting put in together, you guys are put 0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:13.120 getting put into the lowest amount of points. So whatever 0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:17.280 roor CAD is what you guys were putting the lowest lowest, Yeah, lowest, 0:51:18.040 --> 0:51:22.319 the lowest status and apply the lowest points. Yes, yeah, 0:51:22.520 --> 0:51:24.280 it was just the same same thing that was happening 0:51:24.320 --> 0:51:28.520 at Um. I didn't realize that, yeah, paralleling this, it 0:51:28.600 --> 0:51:30.520 was happening to me and my buddy Ethan, who now 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:34.120 I'm going hunting with next month in Colorado, because we 0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:36.240 were doing the same thing, putting in as a group 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:38.640 and every year, like man, we should be drawing, what 0:51:38.840 --> 0:51:40.840 is the problem. And then as soon as we didn't 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:42.600 do it as a group, we drew, as did you 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:46.960 and Rourke, So we weren't in as a team. And 0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:50.239 how many uh, how many? I can't remember how many points? 0:51:50.280 --> 0:51:58.439 I had? Four or five? Man, that's depressive to think about. 0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:02.320 You burned that many points. Man, The thing is in Colorado. 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:04.440 I don't know if you would have gotten much better. 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:07.719 There might have been an archery hunt that we could 0:52:07.719 --> 0:52:09.279 have done that would have been limited entry, and that 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:13.040 would have actually limited people. But I think where I 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:15.439 messed up and picking out this. I had a lookal 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:18.279 a buddy that lives here. I wish he could have 0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:19.480 joined us today, but we had to head back to 0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:24.040 denver Um. But he hunts rifle seasons here, right, and 0:52:24.080 --> 0:52:27.839 he's had very good experiences hunting during the first rifle here, 0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:29.960 and so we just very well, heck, muzzleloaders should be 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:34.160 even better basically to hunt with the rifles during the rut. Well, 0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:36.160 what we didn't factor in at all, and he couldn't 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:37.600 really speak to it because he hasn't been in the 0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:41.719 woods that much this time of years in Colorado. We 0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:46.120 should point out it's it's not but you can't put 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:48.600 a scope on your Muzzloder's your muzzleloader has to be 0:52:49.800 --> 0:52:52.840 true to caliber project out, which means you have a 0:52:52.960 --> 0:52:58.759 pretty you know, slower traveling slug and you got these 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:02.600 open sites. Yeah, so you're not like licking ticks with 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:05.880 the thing you're You're not um, but compared to the 0:53:05.920 --> 0:53:10.160 average archery hunter, you should be at least doubling your range, 0:53:10.200 --> 0:53:12.799 maybe tripling your range, and you don't need to draw 0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:17.080 your damn ball back is kind of thing standing there 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:19.520 on high alert. You don't need to do a big 0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:24.840 elaborate movement. You can just get already. Yeah, it is 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:29.320 a factor in is the archery pressure, because in Colorado 0:53:29.360 --> 0:53:32.960 it's over the counter archery in most units. I al 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:36.040 would say that's gotta it's gonna change that. It has 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:38.920 a change. It already did in some units, um like 0:53:38.920 --> 0:53:41.200 where I used to live up there in Eagle County. Um, 0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:43.959 some of the units, they're like if you I think 0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:46.200 you're gonna draw it, Like this year, if you applied, 0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:49.040 you probably drew it, but you couldn't hunt anywhere else. 0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:51.879 Like once you drew that tag, that like that's where 0:53:51.880 --> 0:53:54.480 it was good for you couldn't hunt the whole state anymore. 0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:56.880 So I think they're gonna start doing that more and more. 0:53:57.200 --> 0:54:01.080 Um So, yeah, it's gonna have to be limited opportunity. 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:04.960 I feel like they gotta. Yeah, I think that they're 0:54:05.000 --> 0:54:09.719 gonna have to reckon with um they're curious about like 0:54:09.840 --> 0:54:15.080 hunter satisfaction. Yes, I think they're gonna have to. I 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:19.280 would imagine if you were to pull people who hunted 0:54:19.320 --> 0:54:22.520 over the last week around this unit about hunter satisfaction, 0:54:23.440 --> 0:54:27.440 I think that you would find um, yeah, when you listen. 0:54:27.440 --> 0:54:30.160 I posted a picture of us and just said said 0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:33.400 that we were hunting in the uh San Juan Mountains 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:36.360 on Instagram. And while we've been here, I got to 0:54:37.120 --> 0:54:40.120 um emails from friends of ours that were here earlier 0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:43.080 in the season, just archery, l cunning that had the 0:54:43.120 --> 0:54:48.279 exact same experience, just like tons of dudes everywhere and 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:51.080 guys that were on mules ten miles into the back 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:53.560 country and we're just like, holy sh it, can't believe 0:54:53.960 --> 0:54:57.719 how many people were running into I've never um, I've 0:54:57.760 --> 0:55:00.200 never seen anything like it. Now we've hunted some high 0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:04.080 pressure stuff. Um and again you know, not having me, 0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:07.040 although we did have some local knowledge, not having personal 0:55:07.080 --> 0:55:11.360 local knowledge of a spot, it's, uh, it's a huge advantage. 0:55:11.440 --> 0:55:13.000 You know, we all know that, you know. I mean 0:55:13.000 --> 0:55:17.560 I hunted heavily pressured Colorado stuff for fifteen years and 0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:19.839 had pretty high success. Yeah, once you get the known 0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:22.399 area is super good. You just make the pressure work 0:55:22.480 --> 0:55:28.239 for you. No. Um, but yeah, this was yeah, because 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:30.359 I think we should sort of explain the like sort 0:55:30.360 --> 0:55:32.120 of paint the picture of the amount of pressure. But 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:35.040 we're going to trailheads or not even trail heads, but 0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:39.279 but parking areas, the end of logging roads, four or 0:55:39.320 --> 0:55:46.239 five six vehicles, camps with multiple r VS, tents, um. 0:55:46.360 --> 0:55:49.160 Not only roads too, not like just like a normal 0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:53.480 force service road like rutted out. Yeah, and if it 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:56.560 was like a better like an improved force service road. 0:55:57.120 --> 0:55:59.800 I mean seriously, we did one Like it was a 0:56:00.000 --> 0:56:01.560 first night that we were out and I mean, it 0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:04.319 was every possible turn off to where you're like, it's 0:56:04.320 --> 0:56:06.439 almost like going down a river where you're like looking, 0:56:06.560 --> 0:56:08.520 you can kind of see the next truck and you're like, yeah, 0:56:08.560 --> 0:56:11.080 that gives me like enough space to jump in the river, 0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:12.960 and I'm not gonna be like crowding this guy. That's 0:56:12.960 --> 0:56:16.040 how it was. It was like every half mile there'd 0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:18.640 be another truck, you know. The founder observed that when 0:56:18.640 --> 0:56:24.080 you're in Colorado always feels like you're in someone's backyard. Yeah, yeah, no, 0:56:24.160 --> 0:56:27.760 we've talked about it before. Man, it's ground zero, ground 0:56:27.880 --> 0:56:33.279 zero here for loving it to death. Mm hmmm um. 0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:35.359 And everybody, hopefully all the other Western states are gonna 0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:37.719 be able to see how color handles it and be 0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:41.719 able to you know, adjust and figure things out. It's 0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:44.240 a conunder man, because you got like the funding problem 0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:49.600 where the state they need to like hunters fund Colorado's 0:56:49.640 --> 0:56:53.280 wildlife program. Hunter's fund a lot of like public land stuff, 0:56:53.320 --> 0:56:57.479 habitat provement, disease research, enforcement, like all that stuff comes 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:00.399 from a hunter funding. And the more hunters got coming 0:57:00.440 --> 0:57:02.239 through the door, the more funny you got, especially non 0:57:02.320 --> 0:57:05.319 resident hunters. And so you need the money and I'm 0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:07.520 sure there's this thing that like, man, we can open 0:57:07.520 --> 0:57:09.839 it up and have it be over the counter and 0:57:09.960 --> 0:57:14.400 have like and hit revenue objectives. Yeah, but at that 0:57:14.520 --> 0:57:16.280 point they can do it here too, because they still 0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:18.840 have you know, twice as many elk as the next state, 0:57:18.960 --> 0:57:23.680 closest state as far as elk population goes, Right, But 0:57:23.720 --> 0:57:26.800 they're good at hiding, yeah, And I think in rifle 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:29.320 seasons it's worked. I mean, second season would be interesting 0:57:29.360 --> 0:57:32.240 to see this year because I think back in the day, 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:37.919 like out of the two and sixty tho, I can't 0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:39.520 remember the number now, I think it was that we 0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:42.360 get a quarter million nonresident hunters or hunters in total 0:57:42.400 --> 0:57:46.080 here in Colorado for big game, and like sixty of 0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:49.800 them would all come during second rifle season. It's like 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:52.640 a major chunk of that whole number all came for 0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:55.680 the same week, right. Really interesting to see this year 0:57:55.760 --> 0:57:57.800 if like that's got spread out a little bit over 0:57:57.840 --> 0:58:00.840 the archery season because we heard anecdotally that neighboring unit 0:58:01.240 --> 0:58:04.800 a guy from a tax jurmy shop or a license 0:58:04.840 --> 0:58:07.160 sales shop. Where was that story they got to this? 0:58:07.520 --> 0:58:09.840 My buddy the other day killed a bear and took 0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:12.920 his bear and to get checked. Yeah, it got the 0:58:12.960 --> 0:58:16.240 yak and with the the guy that checked the warden 0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:21.320 that checked his bear, and the warden told him. But 0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:23.680 I don't know what the point, what the baseline point 0:58:23.800 --> 0:58:26.840 was that the warden told him that archery tag sales 0:58:26.920 --> 0:58:29.720 were up seven X. But I don't know seven x 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:33.520 from when. I don't. I don't even know what that means. 0:58:33.560 --> 0:58:35.720 There's no way they're up like seven x from last year. 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:38.000 You know what I make, I'd have a hard time 0:58:38.040 --> 0:58:40.800 believe in it. I remember seven times more people from 0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:42.680 a year before. I don't know what that means. Remember 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.920 what happened when Colorado dropped there? I mean, this is 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.919 again just applications, right, but when they dropped the nonresident 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:52.960 um requirement to send in a two thousand dollar check 0:58:53.040 --> 0:58:55.880 to apply for moose, goat and sheep, they did that 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:59.000 for one year and it went like it wasn't seven x, 0:58:59.040 --> 0:59:01.720 it was like three hundred X. Do a better job 0:59:01.880 --> 0:59:07.520 explaining that. Do a better job explaining. So y'all needs 0:59:07.520 --> 0:59:10.880 a tag consultant. Not really, I'll do my best, though. 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:13.240 You're tearing it up. Man, you had that one little 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:17.360 thing you missed. You couldn't think of remember what could man, 0:59:21.000 --> 0:59:26.040 he's already getting d M s about that super He's like, 0:59:26.600 --> 0:59:36.160 you gotta got um. When I first started applying for 0:59:36.240 --> 0:59:38.400 Moose Sheep and got in Colorado, and and I was 0:59:38.400 --> 0:59:41.080 a resident, but non residents would have to send in 0:59:41.840 --> 0:59:45.720 a check for I think is roughly if you wanted 0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:47.920 to participate in the draw. And most of the time 0:59:47.960 --> 0:59:51.200 you just participating to get a preference point until you 0:59:51.280 --> 0:59:53.160 build up a certain amount of points, and then maybe 0:59:53.200 --> 0:59:54.880 when you send in the check, you're actually hoping that 0:59:55.080 --> 0:59:56.800 how many points you're sitting on right now might draw. 0:59:58.360 --> 1:00:00.240 The two I've kept up with I've got kind of 1:00:00.280 --> 1:00:03.120 quit doing go um the two have kept up with 1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:07.200 Moose and Sheep. I bet you I'm at close to ten. 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:11.640 We're in there, so there's a chance at least with 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:14.760 we won't get into that. But so anyways, you used 1:00:14.760 --> 1:00:16.800 to have to send in so if you wanted to 1:00:16.800 --> 1:00:19.600 do so. When I moved away to participate in Moose 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:23.560 and Sheep, I had to yank out thirty for a 1:00:23.560 --> 1:00:25.640 couple of months, you know, And when that hits the 1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:29.480 bank account, your gals like, hi, what You're like, Oh, no, 1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:31.520 it's it's it's coming back, don't worry about it. But 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:32.720 it's not like you could just stick it on a 1:00:32.760 --> 1:00:34.720 credit card. They didn't accept credit cards. You had to 1:00:34.760 --> 1:00:37.320 send in the money so that if you drew they 1:00:37.360 --> 1:00:39.320 had your money, they give you the tag because then 1:00:39.320 --> 1:00:41.200 they don't got to be like, hey, you won, and 1:00:41.240 --> 1:00:44.200 then the dudes like, oh, I actually have no possible 1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:46.800 means by which that's hold on. It's like I gotta 1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:52.480 sell my super and then um yeah. So that limited 1:00:52.520 --> 1:00:55.240 a lot of people from applying, especially non residents from 1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:59.280 applying and gaining points. So for whatever reason, I think 1:00:59.280 --> 1:01:01.680 that all probab it felt like they were limiting the 1:01:01.680 --> 1:01:04.960 amount and they wanted more people to be participating, and 1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:07.280 so they know you want to end up actually happening. 1:01:07.760 --> 1:01:12.320 Is that what it was costing Carr Parks and Wildlife 1:01:12.480 --> 1:01:15.560 to do the processing and then mail out all the 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:17.920 refund checks with such a large sum of money that 1:01:17.920 --> 1:01:23.520 they're like, the system isn't working. There was their conspiracy theory. Rightly. 1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:25.360 It was funny because people would say, like, oh, the 1:01:25.400 --> 1:01:27.720 reason they do that is how much money they make 1:01:27.760 --> 1:01:31.760 an interest where for some two months or whatever, they're 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:34.880 sitting on all these millions of dollars and then it 1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:37.200 comes out that it costs them an enormous amount of 1:01:37.200 --> 1:01:40.800 money to process all this stuff issue paper checks, like 1:01:40.840 --> 1:01:43.200 there's no money making going on, yeah, just the postage 1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:47.320 to you know, send everything back. So one year they 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:50.560 drop it to like where it's just wide open. Everybody 1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:53.600 can apply for like and put it on their credit card. 1:01:54.560 --> 1:01:56.520 You saw to uh, you know, put up the money, 1:01:56.520 --> 1:01:57.960 but you can put on a credit card. And I 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:00.480 think that, you know, the fee was only a few dollars, 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:03.840 and it went up something like three the amount of 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:07.160 applicants like it just like everybody just got in were like, sure, 1:02:07.280 --> 1:02:08.840 we can apply now and it won't cost me but 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:11.160 a couple of bucks and and you know a little 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:13.120 bit of interest on my credit card for a few months. 1:02:13.920 --> 1:02:15.520 And so I just fluttered him. So then the next 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:18.840 year then they changed it again. And so I can't 1:02:18.840 --> 1:02:20.600 remember because now it's only been a year or two 1:02:20.640 --> 1:02:22.600 with the new system. But now I think that as 1:02:22.600 --> 1:02:26.480 a non resident, I'm paying I think maybe a hundred 1:02:26.560 --> 1:02:30.440 dollars per species, per year per to get a point 1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:34.040 to participate. And so they you know, they try to 1:02:34.040 --> 1:02:36.440 find a middle ground, like they're still getting money coming 1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:40.040 in but now as hope not as many people swamping 1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:43.160 the system. Like I said, I'm doing my best here. 1:02:43.200 --> 1:02:46.000 I'm sure that there's some dude a car Parks and Wildlife, 1:02:46.680 --> 1:02:49.600 I'm sure you know what I think people in Colorado 1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:51.920 Parks and Wildlife are thinking when they listen to this 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:55.400 and and a bunch of them do. I think they're 1:02:55.440 --> 1:02:57.800 thinking like, yeah, man, it's like there's like something that 1:02:57.840 --> 1:03:01.880 needs to be sorted out. Yeah, yeah, yeah there's and 1:03:01.920 --> 1:03:04.120 there's and again it's just the amount of people and 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:06.560 it's a great place to hunt, and you know, people 1:03:06.600 --> 1:03:09.480 want to come hunt here, but there's a whole thing 1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:12.560 that's called preference point creep here in the state where 1:03:13.600 --> 1:03:17.160 like and that's why we by saving too many points 1:03:17.160 --> 1:03:19.000 if you're starting out now in Colorado, doesn't do you 1:03:19.120 --> 1:03:23.120 much good because again, the amount of demand that's that's 1:03:23.840 --> 1:03:27.080 that's there every single year. If this unit this year 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:29.720 was five points, let's just say for the muzzleloader hunt, 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:32.320 next year it might jump up to six point minimum 1:03:32.440 --> 1:03:34.439 and then seven point minimum. So if you have three 1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:37.440 this year and next year you have four, but the 1:03:37.520 --> 1:03:40.520 cap is at seven, it just moves along ahead of 1:03:40.560 --> 1:03:42.560 you and you're never gonna catch up. And there's a 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:45.680 lot of units in Colorado that that's happening in and 1:03:45.880 --> 1:03:50.560 it pushes people to the open units. Well sure, but 1:03:50.680 --> 1:03:53.600 they're just people are just like they're upset and they're 1:03:53.600 --> 1:03:55.840 frustrated because they're like, man, I have you know, some 1:03:55.880 --> 1:03:59.160 people have twenty years of applying and money put into it, 1:03:59.240 --> 1:04:01.720 and they're seeing the point creep happening, and they're like, 1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:04.040 there's no end in sight, and I'm never gonna draw 1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:06.560 a tag because there's and you can look at all 1:04:06.600 --> 1:04:09.280 the numbers and you have twenty one points. You can 1:04:09.280 --> 1:04:11.880 see that in whatever fancy unit you're applying for, how 1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:14.760 many people applied with more points ahead of you, and 1:04:14.800 --> 1:04:17.120 how many people how big that pool is. So there 1:04:17.160 --> 1:04:19.520 might have been five thousand people that apply with twenty 1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:22.240 three points. If those five thousand people keep applying for 1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:25.000 that same unit and there's only ten tags issue the year, 1:04:25.040 --> 1:04:28.920 it takes a lot of years until that that pool 1:04:29.160 --> 1:04:32.080 falls out, and you know, people are gonna die with 1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:34.840 thirty points in Colorado. You know, what do you think 1:04:34.880 --> 1:04:36.680 about that rich pounder you ever put in for a 1:04:36.680 --> 1:04:38.280 tag in your life? No, but you know what I 1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:41.800 do think about it? It sounds a lot like airline 1:04:41.920 --> 1:04:46.360 status and playing that game, man, and I play that 1:04:46.400 --> 1:04:50.080 game hard. Yeah, Like when you get like I could 1:04:50.080 --> 1:04:53.640 go into the Delta, the most crowded place in the 1:04:53.640 --> 1:05:01.800 Air Force. Delta allows dude, it's like, how's everybody? Everybody? Well, 1:05:02.160 --> 1:05:04.760 I got some fancy lounge now to through am X though, 1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:08.600 but Steve not always flying a priority pass or something. Yeah, 1:05:08.920 --> 1:05:11.560 but it's like, what are we gonna do, like landing 1:05:11.600 --> 1:05:13.160 the airport and he's gonna go to the delta a 1:05:13.200 --> 1:05:16.000 lounge and go to a different one. Usually if one 1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:17.720 of you has access to allounge and let you have 1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:21.400 a buddy, tyne bucks. What the delta. So if you're 1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:22.680 gonna go in there, if you know you're gonna go 1:05:22.720 --> 1:05:26.440 in there and have a meal and have a couple, wait, 1:05:26.480 --> 1:05:28.880 Delta charges you twenty nine bucks to bring a buddy, 1:05:28.920 --> 1:05:32.760 to bring your partner or your wife or your kids. Dude, 1:05:32.760 --> 1:05:39.640 I'm sticking like an alien. Probably it's ridiculous. That's a 1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:42.840 little off topic. So, yeah, a lot of pressure here, 1:05:43.080 --> 1:05:48.600 and uh that I was not expecting it. Man, we 1:05:48.200 --> 1:05:50.280 thought we were going to be into some because man, 1:05:50.640 --> 1:05:52.840 we thought we're gonna be in some rip roaring bugle 1:05:52.920 --> 1:05:59.120 fest man. Yeah, with muzzleloaders in hand. Nonetheless, um burned 1:05:59.120 --> 1:06:08.320 all my points. How many bugles? What's that? Yeah? Watched 1:06:08.360 --> 1:06:12.520 the bowl silently bugle. Yeah, that's cool to see. I 1:06:12.560 --> 1:06:15.320 think that that happens. It's been I mean, first time 1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:17.600 I saw it was probably close to twenty years ago. 1:06:17.920 --> 1:06:20.520 Do everything but make the noise. Yeah, And then we 1:06:20.600 --> 1:06:23.000 were the way I could tell because I couldn't figure 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:24.840 out what I was looking at. And it was the 1:06:24.960 --> 1:06:26.800 night before season. I was just out with the client 1:06:26.880 --> 1:06:28.760 or two for just a walk, and we decided to 1:06:28.800 --> 1:06:33.080 sit in this place called the the Cafe. Everybody used 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:35.640 to meet there for lunch midday, that's how it got 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:38.560 that name. And uh, we're sitting there and of course, 1:06:38.640 --> 1:06:42.040 night before season, just the whole herd pops in the winds, 1:06:42.040 --> 1:06:44.520 swirl in every direction and they're like, yeah, we don't care, 1:06:44.720 --> 1:06:46.800 you know, just out in the middle for like an hour, 1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:51.120 and the temperature dropped just enough to where when he 1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:54.480 would make that posture, you could see the steam coming 1:06:54.520 --> 1:06:56.960 out of his mouth like he should be bugling that. 1:06:57.000 --> 1:06:59.120 You can see his pushing air out of his mouth, 1:06:59.600 --> 1:07:02.480 yet there was no sound. I think eventually He did 1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:04.240 that three or four, maybe a half dozen times, and 1:07:04.280 --> 1:07:09.200 eventually I could just hear like, yeah, there was some 1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:13.080 sound coming out. Because again, they have to bugle at 1:07:13.080 --> 1:07:16.040 those cows right as they're trying to accord them here 1:07:16.120 --> 1:07:19.080 him whatever they're doing, you know, push them around, trying 1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:21.720 to breed them. I think that if there's a certain 1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:25.240 without trying to anthropomorphize too much, but there's trying to 1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:27.800 show some respect to keep them around, to not run 1:07:27.880 --> 1:07:32.200 them off, you know. But really, yeah, but if you 1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:36.560 bugle real loud every other bull in the zone, it's like, oh, 1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:38.680 you got a bunch of ladies down there. I'll come 1:07:38.760 --> 1:07:41.160 check that out and try to steal them and mess 1:07:41.200 --> 1:07:43.680 with you. And you know, yeah, like if you're like 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:46.920 a you know, if you're a young single guy and 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:48.960 you go, like you just stumble into the bar at 1:07:49.040 --> 1:07:53.720 night and it's you and like twenty women, right, you 1:07:53.760 --> 1:07:55.960 could have then called your buddies and be like, hey, 1:07:56.640 --> 1:08:03.160 guess what, guess what's happening. If it was one, I 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:06.880 might call one or two my best friends, but you'd 1:08:06.920 --> 1:08:14.080 be like, turn my phone off. Uh. Two interesting things 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:16.720 about sand. Uh. We we can speak generally about the 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:20.400 sand Juan's two good stories about the sand. Juan's um 1:08:20.520 --> 1:08:24.439 one is the and the grizzly bear story down here 1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:30.679 where um you know, grizzlies once upon a time, hundred 1:08:30.720 --> 1:08:36.160 fifty years ago, uh could be found all the way 1:08:36.200 --> 1:08:40.559 down into Sonora, Mexico. Right. They ran from northern Mexico 1:08:41.360 --> 1:08:46.000 all the way up through the western the Western States 1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:49.240 basically from the hundredth meridian and on the Great Plains 1:08:49.640 --> 1:08:51.960 around from the hundredth meridian west all the way to 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:56.400 the Pacific coast up through the western Canadian provinces, all 1:08:56.479 --> 1:08:59.840 of Alaska. UM. And then they kind of got gradually 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:02.000 in the lower forty eight whittled away to just a 1:09:02.000 --> 1:09:07.200 couple of little enclaves and and uh Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, 1:09:07.920 --> 1:09:10.360 Colorado had him until you know, they had him into 1:09:10.400 --> 1:09:13.360 the forties. And then starting in the fifties like wanted 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:16.040 pop up now and then like like out of nowhere 1:09:16.040 --> 1:09:18.759 of grizzly to kill a sheep, and some old trapper 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:20.960 go out and kill the grizzly. And it got to 1:09:21.000 --> 1:09:25.240 be nineteen fifty was it fifty three? I think in 1:09:25.400 --> 1:09:32.880 nineteen fifty three the state declared grizzlies extinct, gone and 1:09:32.920 --> 1:09:36.280 then in nineteen seventy nine does the dude by the 1:09:36.360 --> 1:09:40.240 last name of Wiseman oh bow hunting in the San 1:09:40.320 --> 1:09:45.839 Juans with a recurve. I think he had a recurve. Uh, 1:09:46.160 --> 1:09:50.479 some bitch doesn't. He gets most dudes probably gets mauled 1:09:50.479 --> 1:09:54.040 by a grizzly. There's always been rumors of some around 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:59.880 gets mauled by a grizzly. Uh. There's some controversy around 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:03.240 what exactly happened. But the bear winds up dead. His 1:10:03.360 --> 1:10:08.160 story is that he kind of accidentally cornered it on 1:10:08.200 --> 1:10:15.280 a ridgeline somehow, and it was a sow and she 1:10:15.360 --> 1:10:17.679 starts mauling him on the leg and then starts mauling 1:10:17.720 --> 1:10:19.960 him on the shoulder, and he sees his quiver laying 1:10:19.960 --> 1:10:22.040 there and like his arrows spilled out of his quiver, 1:10:22.120 --> 1:10:26.240 And according to his story, he takes an arrow and 1:10:26.320 --> 1:10:30.960 starts jabbing her with it, and she eventually stops mauling 1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:35.439 and walks off a few yards and lays down, bleeds 1:10:35.439 --> 1:10:39.080 out and dies. They don't keep the body. Somehow, like 1:10:39.200 --> 1:10:43.040 winds up that they skin it. Biologists were able to 1:10:43.040 --> 1:10:45.599 look and not only is like here's his female grizzly 1:10:45.680 --> 1:10:48.599 that suppose he's been like the species supposed been extinct 1:10:48.640 --> 1:10:51.760 from the state for twenty six years. But here she is, 1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:55.920 and she had like the color of her, the color 1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:58.479 of her that that she had like stretched out teats, 1:10:58.520 --> 1:11:01.040 and the coloration on him suggests that she had reproduced 1:11:01.439 --> 1:11:05.080 in her life. And that brought on this big search 1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:07.920 that ran all the way into the early nineties of 1:11:08.240 --> 1:11:16.439 people coming down. Um, the writer and uh, the writer 1:11:17.439 --> 1:11:20.719 and environmentalist David Peterson was involved with it. The writer 1:11:20.880 --> 1:11:23.200 Rick somehow it became like a literary thing. I guess 1:11:23.439 --> 1:11:28.560 the writer Rick Bass got involved with it. The contrarian 1:11:29.120 --> 1:11:32.320 Doug Peacock got involved with it, coming down and trying 1:11:32.360 --> 1:11:37.880 to establish the presence of grizzlies here, and kept added 1:11:37.880 --> 1:11:41.519 till the nineties. And I think now there are still 1:11:41.560 --> 1:11:44.920 a lot of believers that there are grizzlies in Colorado. Um, 1:11:44.960 --> 1:11:48.920 I know some of them personally, but they're new grizzlies, 1:11:48.960 --> 1:11:51.559 different grizzlies. Yeah, because that's the new resting point out 1:11:51.560 --> 1:11:55.080 because this is the Southern We're in the south of 1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:57.240 the States, so people are trying to establish this idea 1:11:57.240 --> 1:11:59.360 that there had always been something. Now there's a new 1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:01.680 idea that some and it's not unreasonable at all, and 1:12:01.680 --> 1:12:03.960 it will happen that some are gonna drift down from 1:12:03.960 --> 1:12:07.479 Wyoming and absolutely like in twenty years, if I had 1:12:07.479 --> 1:12:11.559 to make you know in twenty years there, I'll just come. Yeah, 1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:15.000 I'll just say in twenty years, if if trends continue, 1:12:15.080 --> 1:12:17.759 you will have grizzlies in Colorado in twenty years, wolves 1:12:17.760 --> 1:12:21.040 are shown up. It's just gonna happen. But the idea 1:12:21.040 --> 1:12:23.439 that they've been here and surviving this mountain range now 1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:25.679 despite some people that still believe because then some kid 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:29.519 claims that have had one come out and falls charge 1:12:29.600 --> 1:12:31.879 him and basically like a dance around him and stomped 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:33.919 the ground around him, and he got this whole elaborate 1:12:33.920 --> 1:12:36.960 story that happened to him in the san juans Um 1:12:37.040 --> 1:12:38.479 and so but it's kind of like a thing that 1:12:38.520 --> 1:12:41.080 people like to believe it. But back to this Wiseman 1:12:41.160 --> 1:12:44.920 dude story is that a lot of people felt that 1:12:45.160 --> 1:12:49.960 a more reasonable explanation would be the he stumbles upon 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:52.880 the bear, sinks an arrow into it and then gets mauled, 1:12:54.560 --> 1:12:56.920 and then it mauls him and then dies from the wound. 1:12:57.080 --> 1:13:00.960 But the dude took a polygraph right, took a polygraph 1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:04.519 and passed the polygraph that he got mauled first, then 1:13:04.720 --> 1:13:08.320 jabbed it was an arrow and killed it. There was 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:10.720 only one jab mark. I don't know how. No. I 1:13:10.760 --> 1:13:12.599 think he jabbed it a handful of times around its 1:13:12.680 --> 1:13:18.080 neck got you. I could see if there was one hole, 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:20.240 it would be like, oh, maybe he did shoot it. 1:13:22.240 --> 1:13:27.800 I man again, like if someone said, uh, someone said, hey, 1:13:27.840 --> 1:13:30.000 I'm gonna ask you a question. If you get the 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:33.519 answer right, you live. If you get the answer wrong, 1:13:33.680 --> 1:13:37.160 I'm gonna shoot you and kill you right, And he 1:13:37.240 --> 1:13:39.560 said did he shoot it and then get mauled or 1:13:39.600 --> 1:13:42.679 mauled it then get then stabbed it. If I had 1:13:42.720 --> 1:13:48.360 to like do that, I would probably go with I 1:13:48.400 --> 1:13:54.400 think he shot it then got mold mm hmm. I've 1:13:54.439 --> 1:13:58.519 never met the guy. It's a tough story to believe. Man. Well, 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:01.439 the book talks about out they did an autopsy on 1:14:01.479 --> 1:14:04.840 this bear and one of the wounds they think the 1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:09.519 wound that probably did the most damage. The it showed 1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:11.880 the entry of an arrow is like creating a really 1:14:12.120 --> 1:14:16.519 round hole and puncture mark in the body was opposed 1:14:16.560 --> 1:14:21.840 to some jagged stabbing motion. Interesting, like it's just the 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:27.160 last grizzly in Colorado happens too. But what does he 1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:29.960 think he's gonna do if he should? Like, I think 1:14:29.960 --> 1:14:32.280 he's creeping along with the woods. I mean again, someone's 1:14:32.280 --> 1:14:33.439 got a gun to my head. I gotta get right 1:14:33.479 --> 1:14:37.519 or else I die. Have he steaks right? I got children? Um, 1:14:37.560 --> 1:14:39.280 I don't know. He's creeping along and alvious. It's like 1:14:39.360 --> 1:14:42.600 holy shit, but his first inclination is to shoot it 1:14:42.640 --> 1:14:44.320 and then have to deal with the maybe thals a 1:14:44.320 --> 1:14:49.160 black bear? Like maybe? Yeah? What season? Was he hunting? Beart? 1:14:49.200 --> 1:14:53.160 Was he like walking around? Is that also black bear? Probably? 1:14:53.320 --> 1:14:55.479 I'm sure interesting? Well, if he felt it was a 1:14:55.479 --> 1:14:57.080 black bear, why wouldn't he just be like, I don't 1:14:57.120 --> 1:15:01.040 know a black bear? That's why? Because that because there 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:04.200 haven't been any grizzlies in your state. For there haven't 1:15:04.240 --> 1:15:08.439 been any. They were declared extinct six years ago. It's 1:15:08.439 --> 1:15:10.400 not even on your mind. Look, if I knew some 1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:11.880 guy in Michigan that had a bear tag and he 1:15:11.960 --> 1:15:14.720 stumbled through the up no not, let's say not say 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:18.960 mission because historically didn't have a guy in South Dakota. Okay, 1:15:19.800 --> 1:15:21.800 do they get a lot of black beards and help me, 1:15:21.800 --> 1:15:25.080 help me with a good state, Johnny, help me with bears. 1:15:25.200 --> 1:15:29.160 And there's a guy still creeping through the woods in California, California, 1:15:29.200 --> 1:15:31.679 creeping through the woods of California, got a bear tag, 1:15:31.720 --> 1:15:34.280 burn a hole in his pocket, and lo and behold 1:15:34.280 --> 1:15:38.200 there through the brushes a bear? Yeah? Is he is 1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:42.880 his responsibility to be Like, I wonder if somehow there's 1:15:42.880 --> 1:15:46.240 a remnant, surviving population of these bears that no one's 1:15:46.280 --> 1:15:49.000 known about for twenty six years, and maybe I better 1:15:49.040 --> 1:15:52.400 investigate quickly before loosing my arrow. Or is he gonna 1:15:52.400 --> 1:15:55.599 be like, holy shit, a bear. Shoot? No, he's gonna shoot. 1:15:56.840 --> 1:15:59.400 I think what I'm saying. I don't think that could 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:02.240 be the story, because if that was the case, he 1:16:02.280 --> 1:16:06.800 would be like I thought, yeah, because you're so low, 1:16:09.600 --> 1:16:13.400 you're like that Jonah Hills. I can't see your cowboy 1:16:13.479 --> 1:16:16.639 I can't see your cowboy boots and your and your 1:16:16.760 --> 1:16:19.639 armpits around the resting on the table. But go ahead, 1:16:20.479 --> 1:16:25.240 well yeah, just the current situation here around the table. Um. No, 1:16:25.360 --> 1:16:26.760 I think if that was the case, he would just 1:16:26.760 --> 1:16:28.840 be like, I thought it was a black bear. I 1:16:28.880 --> 1:16:30.600 shot it and it mauled me. It turns out it 1:16:30.600 --> 1:16:32.679 was a grizzly unless he was trying to just sound 1:16:32.760 --> 1:16:34.680 like a badass, you know, and he wanted to have 1:16:34.760 --> 1:16:38.439 this story about you know, I don't. I don't know, dude. 1:16:38.520 --> 1:16:43.280 I know we're rehashed. We're rehashing someone that's been hashed. 1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:49.280 What's pretty wild about the story is the story of um, 1:16:49.479 --> 1:16:55.320 the surviving of like his night out. It's pretty wild. 1:16:55.479 --> 1:16:58.519 He was hunting with his guide, hunting with the client. Yeah, 1:16:58.560 --> 1:17:01.800 he was the guide. His sends his client out of 1:17:01.840 --> 1:17:05.000 the woods to go get help. And uh, I think 1:17:05.000 --> 1:17:07.040 as he retold the story, he's just thinking, like, well, 1:17:07.080 --> 1:17:09.439 if they go like they'll probably be back by like ten. 1:17:10.200 --> 1:17:13.559 Well ten pm comes the guy. The guide had collected 1:17:13.560 --> 1:17:15.719 a bunch of firewood for him, you know, and started 1:17:15.720 --> 1:17:19.840 the fire client the client. Yeah, wait, not to interrupt this, 1:17:19.920 --> 1:17:23.080 but to go back if there's another witness there. No, 1:17:23.640 --> 1:17:28.760 they were split up. Okay, what year was this? The 1:17:29.000 --> 1:17:33.040 dudes still life? Maybe it could be a good podcast. 1:17:33.040 --> 1:17:35.479 I hope, I mean, I love to m on. I 1:17:35.479 --> 1:17:39.240 don't know. Uh, you know, we're just talking about a 1:17:39.240 --> 1:17:41.160 bunch of stuff we have no idea about. That's to 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:43.719 remind listeners that we have we're just I know, would 1:17:43.720 --> 1:17:47.040 be good to talk to the dude. Yeah, But anyways, 1:17:47.080 --> 1:17:50.599 he survives all night fire wood runs out, but he's 1:17:51.720 --> 1:17:54.759 incapacitated to the point where he can't go collect more wood, 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:57.519 and so he basically shivers and bleeds, you know, and 1:17:57.600 --> 1:18:00.559 makes it to daylight until they get the ascue crew 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:04.439 in there to get him out. Very easily could have 1:18:04.439 --> 1:18:12.600 just slipped off and that was the last Grizzly. You 1:18:12.600 --> 1:18:18.759 know what's crazy is this happened on September. Yeah, septem 1:18:19.800 --> 1:18:23.920 are kidding me forty years ago today. If you didn't 1:18:23.920 --> 1:18:27.800 believe in like ghosts and whatnot, I don't know what 1:18:27.840 --> 1:18:30.240 that tells you. I can't find anything that says he's 1:18:30.240 --> 1:18:32.559 still alive, that he's live in two Down fourteen. Oh 1:18:32.600 --> 1:18:36.920 it was Um. What was the other interesting thing about 1:18:37.000 --> 1:18:39.280 san Juan's. Oh, there's another thing I want to talk 1:18:39.320 --> 1:18:41.679 about about san Juan's. It kind of pertains to some things. 1:18:41.720 --> 1:18:45.759 But and some of the same characters are involved, because 1:18:46.040 --> 1:18:51.160 again the hunter and environmentalist David Peterson, Is you alive? 1:18:53.240 --> 1:18:59.360 When was that article today? Yeah's eighty six years old, dude, 1:18:59.400 --> 1:19:02.760 cal him ups kicking still in this photo of him, 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:06.160 his hands are bigger than his head. We'll put kour 1:19:06.240 --> 1:19:11.000 In on it, you know. Yeah, I mean he's at 1:19:11.040 --> 1:19:12.360 that age you kind of you know, I don't know 1:19:12.360 --> 1:19:15.439 if you really need to. I mean, it's up to him. Yeah. Um, 1:19:15.640 --> 1:19:17.320 we'd love to hear we'd love to hear that story. 1:19:18.840 --> 1:19:21.439 And again, me talking about this whole thing about what happened, 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:24.000 I have no idea what happened. I'm just talking about 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:26.320 there's different perspectives on it. And if just looking at 1:19:26.360 --> 1:19:30.000 it from outside purely like outside looking in things there 1:19:30.040 --> 1:19:32.680 are I'm not the only guy to bring up like 1:19:33.040 --> 1:19:35.920 what what now? Uh. The interest thing this is also 1:19:35.960 --> 1:19:40.120 involves David Peterson because he's he's he's promoted this idea 1:19:40.560 --> 1:19:42.720 is that one of the things we're seeing here is 1:19:42.800 --> 1:19:47.400 that one of the things that of like that there's uh, 1:19:47.520 --> 1:19:50.519 this Elkert here's declining. And there's a lot of contention 1:19:50.560 --> 1:19:52.960 about why this Elkert is declining. The thing that they're 1:19:52.960 --> 1:19:58.080 finding is um one of these guys that was involved, 1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:00.400 it was very involved and wrote a lot about and 1:20:00.400 --> 1:20:02.280 commented about this search for the last grizzle in the 1:20:02.320 --> 1:20:06.800 San Juan's feels that Um. I think he makes the 1:20:06.960 --> 1:20:12.680 argument that increased hunting pressure in the San Juans is 1:20:12.920 --> 1:20:19.080 interrupting the rut and it's making that bulls don't bugle 1:20:19.680 --> 1:20:23.400 and cows aren't getting bread, and that there's also this 1:20:23.600 --> 1:20:28.679 edition of muzzle loader hunters in here, and that that 1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:32.760 is what's causing a decline in the elk kirts. Biologists 1:20:33.280 --> 1:20:38.120 don't on on whole biology don't agree with this assessment 1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:44.200 because pregnancy rates are not down and calving rates aren't down. 1:20:44.680 --> 1:20:49.360 But what's down is calf survivability, meaning calves are hitting 1:20:49.400 --> 1:20:53.439 the ground, but they're not reaching maturity. And some people 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:56.439 look and say, you know what that means is that 1:20:56.479 --> 1:20:59.719 we have a predation problem, which flies in the face 1:20:59.840 --> 1:21:04.120 of people, which flies in the face of an individual 1:21:04.120 --> 1:21:06.519 like David Peterson, who would argue that we have been 1:21:06.560 --> 1:21:10.040 waging this hundreds year long war on predators and to 1:21:10.240 --> 1:21:13.639 now blame predators on declining elk numbers is to once 1:21:13.680 --> 1:21:16.479 again look away from the reality of our own impacts 1:21:16.520 --> 1:21:22.240 on the landscape. Well, just coincidentally this happens to I 1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:25.960 say that wrong. It just happens to coincide with the 1:21:26.000 --> 1:21:31.000 fact that Colorado's um fish and Wildlife has realized that 1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:34.240 they think that their bear population, that their numbers were 1:21:34.280 --> 1:21:38.360 off by it possibly as much as like, like they 1:21:38.400 --> 1:21:40.120 think it might be as twice as big as they 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:42.080 as they thought it was just five years ago. But 1:21:42.520 --> 1:21:46.880 the exploding population of five bears to the point where 1:21:46.920 --> 1:21:50.280 there they've actually this year they dropped the non resident 1:21:50.360 --> 1:21:53.599 bear tag price from three fifty to a hundred dollars 1:21:53.640 --> 1:21:56.839 because they really want people out there hunting black bears 1:21:56.960 --> 1:22:00.479 and reducing the population for all sorts of sin. I mean, 1:22:00.520 --> 1:22:02.719 this being one of them that possibly might be affecting 1:22:02.800 --> 1:22:06.800 you know, elk heard size, but uh, you know, there's 1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:09.760 just black bears. I mean, you guys were last night 1:22:09.840 --> 1:22:15.160 in a small rural town here and and uh yeah, 1:22:15.240 --> 1:22:18.439 tell them about that. Yeah, we just we rolled into 1:22:18.439 --> 1:22:21.560 a town to fuel up, and we went to the 1:22:21.640 --> 1:22:24.360 gas station, fueled up, and we're coming back and like 1:22:24.520 --> 1:22:27.479 you couldn't be anymore downtown and there was a black 1:22:27.520 --> 1:22:32.720 bear stand there on the sidewalk downtown, crippled, crippled his 1:22:33.160 --> 1:22:36.040 his front right, Paul was he was like holding it. 1:22:36.120 --> 1:22:38.120 Got hit by a car or something, probably trying to 1:22:38.160 --> 1:22:42.320 get into a dumpster. Yep. It's one of those funny 1:22:42.439 --> 1:22:44.320 situations when you look at these these kind of like 1:22:44.360 --> 1:22:46.679 guys that have been talking about hunting for so long 1:22:46.720 --> 1:22:50.160 and talking about wildlife for so long. Um, like you know, 1:22:50.280 --> 1:22:52.679 people we keep mentioning, like David Peterson and Doug Peacock 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:57.080 and everything. It's like you get into people get into 1:22:57.080 --> 1:22:59.160 this thing where you you have this set of ideas 1:22:59.200 --> 1:23:02.519 that you you become very invested in, you know, and 1:23:02.560 --> 1:23:07.280 then time marches on and your sets of ideas don't 1:23:07.280 --> 1:23:11.559 evolve with the new reality and you wind up um 1:23:11.640 --> 1:23:14.840 having like these like somewhat antiquated notions. But it's also 1:23:14.880 --> 1:23:21.439 this really interesting case study and how people's agenda can 1:23:21.479 --> 1:23:26.840 inform people's personal agenda or personal biases can inform an 1:23:26.840 --> 1:23:29.880 interpretation of science, which you which which we all would 1:23:29.880 --> 1:23:32.880 hope that science sits in this objective position where we 1:23:32.880 --> 1:23:34.920 can talk about like fact and not fact. But you 1:23:34.960 --> 1:23:37.040 could be like I've been hunting bow I've been bow 1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:39.519 hunting the San Juan Mountains my entire life. I used 1:23:39.520 --> 1:23:42.479 to have the place to myself. Elk hunting is going 1:23:42.520 --> 1:23:46.600 to ship. I love bears. What could be causing the problem. 1:23:46.640 --> 1:23:50.760 It's got to be other hunters and someone else who 1:23:50.880 --> 1:23:55.439 might be like invested in hunter participation or a guide 1:23:55.520 --> 1:23:58.080 or whatever. His things like, oh, that can't be it. 1:23:58.240 --> 1:24:01.840 I make my living off hunters. It's got to be 1:24:01.880 --> 1:24:05.120 the damn bears, you know. And and what we all 1:24:05.200 --> 1:24:09.080 like go out and run out and push whatever version 1:24:09.200 --> 1:24:12.640 sort of reinforces our reality. I share this seeing by 1:24:12.640 --> 1:24:14.920 brother dot long ago. I was talking about why, um 1:24:16.720 --> 1:24:20.640 did we talk about this, like why big scientific advancements 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:23.960 have you are typically made by young people? Yeah? But 1:24:24.080 --> 1:24:26.879 Cameron FROMS on the podcast, so yeah, you definitely mentioned 1:24:26.880 --> 1:24:30.439 how better science is usually done by younger science. Yeah, 1:24:30.439 --> 1:24:31.880 I was just I was reading this book by the 1:24:32.040 --> 1:24:34.719 he's coming on the podcast. But this guy, Justin Schmidt, 1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:36.639 who's an entomologist, and he came up with this thing 1:24:36.640 --> 1:24:39.880 called the Schmidt pain Index, by which you can um 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:44.439 index out how the severity of insect bites. And he 1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:46.920 just put like it's like one two, three, four four 1:24:47.000 --> 1:24:49.680 plus and he's been bit by everything. Every insight that 1:24:49.760 --> 1:24:54.720 constingua um and and ranks him and he studies toxins 1:24:54.760 --> 1:24:58.320 and insects, and as sort of an aside in his book, 1:24:58.320 --> 1:25:02.800 he's like talking about why young people make its scientific advancements, 1:25:02.800 --> 1:25:06.160 Like they make scientific advancements because they haven't yet entered 1:25:06.200 --> 1:25:09.720 that stage of their career where they're defending old ideas, 1:25:11.080 --> 1:25:14.360 where it's like, you put forth an idea and it's novel, 1:25:14.439 --> 1:25:16.200 and it gets a lot of attention, and then people 1:25:16.200 --> 1:25:18.600 start focusing on we'll look at this person's idea, and 1:25:18.640 --> 1:25:21.120 they start adding to it and questioning it and questioning 1:25:21.120 --> 1:25:24.320 its assumptions and challenging it. And then you either like, 1:25:24.479 --> 1:25:26.479 you know what, damn it, you're right, I need to 1:25:26.479 --> 1:25:31.599 evolve my feeling, or you become entrenched and you spend 1:25:31.680 --> 1:25:35.519 your career, you know, being like, yeah, but it sure 1:25:35.640 --> 1:25:38.439 was a good idea, you know, you spend your career 1:25:38.479 --> 1:25:40.559 like loving it. It's hard for a person in this 1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:43.040 position to be like, oh, you know, we need to 1:25:43.040 --> 1:25:46.280 stop this war on predators two then later be like, 1:25:47.000 --> 1:25:50.639 you know what, man, we gradually sort of did stop 1:25:50.680 --> 1:25:54.000 the war on predators, and now we've got a shipload 1:25:54.080 --> 1:26:02.439 of them. You're kind of right. It's tough. Well, Johnny Man, 1:26:02.560 --> 1:26:04.560 I was trying to come up with a good segue 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:06.960 because I think one of the things that dominated our 1:26:07.000 --> 1:26:11.000 conversations for at least for the last couple of days was, um, 1:26:11.120 --> 1:26:13.800 we did some hunting on the continental Divide Trailer off 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:17.640 the Continental Divide Trail that runs through the San Juan's 1:26:17.680 --> 1:26:21.200 And uh, it wasn't until like the third day up 1:26:21.240 --> 1:26:25.200 there that we ran into our first through Hiker. This 1:26:25.240 --> 1:26:28.200 is the world I didn't know existed exactly, which we've 1:26:28.200 --> 1:26:30.000 had we've had a lot of fun chatting about it. 1:26:30.000 --> 1:26:34.200 And we ran into another through Hiker, um Denali and 1:26:34.280 --> 1:26:39.479 Soda where their two trail names which I knew about 1:26:39.479 --> 1:26:41.759 trailingas I didn't know where they how they came about. 1:26:42.080 --> 1:26:44.880 We still don't know how they come about. No, yeah, 1:26:44.920 --> 1:26:47.560 we have understand Yeah we got we gotta grasp you 1:26:47.600 --> 1:26:51.120 guys some research. Yeah really, Yeah, you're with like a 1:26:51.160 --> 1:26:53.320 group of people on the trail and they just like 1:26:53.439 --> 1:26:56.280 give you the name. But in the caveat remember the 1:26:56.320 --> 1:26:57.960 thing that the little blurb but I found on Google 1:26:57.960 --> 1:27:00.719 was like if you respond to it only one time, 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:04.960 you're stuck with it forever. Oh yeah, So if somebody 1:27:04.960 --> 1:27:07.479 calls you something and you and you like ignore it, 1:27:07.640 --> 1:27:10.000 If you ignore it, it doesn't count. You just keep 1:27:10.040 --> 1:27:14.200 saying no, my name is Steve. Oh so that's how 1:27:14.240 --> 1:27:16.320 you don't get stuck with the trail and you ignore 1:27:16.360 --> 1:27:20.160 it because one dude We met this trail named Soda 1:27:20.160 --> 1:27:23.200 because he likes to drinking pop how to call them pop? 1:27:24.360 --> 1:27:26.080 And then another trail name yet Donal. We don't know 1:27:26.120 --> 1:27:29.960 how she got it. Should ask a through hikers, someone 1:27:30.040 --> 1:27:33.920 who will uh do the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, 1:27:34.320 --> 1:27:37.560 the Conte Divida Trail, and they do it top to bottom, 1:27:37.920 --> 1:27:42.479 Canada to Mexico and they're the elite trail hiker. Or 1:27:42.560 --> 1:27:44.680 Mexico to Canada. You don't have to take either way, 1:27:45.680 --> 1:27:48.280 or you can just nickel and diamond over time. We 1:27:48.360 --> 1:27:51.720 met a guy yesterday who's just nickeling and diamond. You 1:27:51.720 --> 1:27:55.920 know what, Actually it's funny to dude. Nickelin and Diamond 1:27:56.080 --> 1:27:58.479 had a health flat for to say then the dudes 1:27:58.520 --> 1:28:03.400 they were just doing it. Certainly the dude, the dude 1:28:03.439 --> 1:28:06.559 I spent time with doing the through hike, was the 1:28:06.640 --> 1:28:13.120 least bragging, most unassuming. He's like, yeah, held, he told 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:15.519 us he was he was being lazy because he didn't 1:28:15.520 --> 1:28:18.800 have a fishing rod. I'm like, dude, you're walking the 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:23.040 entire north to south of the whole United States and 1:28:23.080 --> 1:28:25.960 you're saying you're being lazy. A dude from a dude 1:28:25.960 --> 1:28:30.439 from London, the pair of Solomon sneakers, thirteen pounds of 1:28:30.520 --> 1:28:33.479 gear that was packed waiting with no food and waters. 1:28:33.479 --> 1:28:35.400 Thirteen pounds might have been less than that man. That 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:40.360 thing was light. Yeah. He had like a Sawyer water 1:28:40.720 --> 1:28:43.560 purifying bottle, a bottle of Doctor, a half bottle of 1:28:43.600 --> 1:28:46.560 the like, a couple of licks of Dr Pepper, a 1:28:46.720 --> 1:28:48.840 zero degree bag, some kind of tent which I can't 1:28:48.840 --> 1:28:52.760 imagine fitting that pack, a booney hat, a pair of 1:28:52.760 --> 1:28:55.400 sneakers and pants, and some track and pulling. That some 1:28:55.560 --> 1:28:58.360 bitch was walking from Canada to Mexico. And it acted 1:28:58.400 --> 1:29:00.839 like he was if you'd run into him. His demeanor 1:29:00.960 --> 1:29:03.080 was as though he was walking down to get a beer. Yeah, 1:29:04.160 --> 1:29:08.120 Like it was just no fanfare whatsoever. Yeah, And I 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:11.120 was like, I was expecting a bigger answer because you 1:29:11.280 --> 1:29:16.120 questioned his motive and he just and and and I 1:29:16.160 --> 1:29:19.160 liked his answer. He's from London and he's basically like, 1:29:19.840 --> 1:29:24.639 you guys have unbelievable wildlife and scenery and mountains here 1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:27.040 and I don't have anything like that where I came from, 1:29:27.160 --> 1:29:30.519 and it's just great to walk through it. And that 1:29:30.640 --> 1:29:32.080 was like kind of the that was it. And that's 1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:36.639 why I'm walking to Canada. Man. Yeah, and you kind 1:29:36.640 --> 1:29:41.280 of expect like, well, I got divorced and I'm down 1:29:41.320 --> 1:29:43.640 and out. I needed to clear my head to do 1:29:43.760 --> 1:29:47.960 something big, and here I am, you know, finding myself. 1:29:48.000 --> 1:29:50.120 But I just want to see the cool ship. Yeah, 1:29:50.280 --> 1:29:52.599 I just want to go see big mountains. He had. 1:29:52.680 --> 1:29:57.000 No he was like one of those dudes. There's dudes 1:29:57.000 --> 1:29:58.840 who are bad ass. You to know about it. Well, 1:29:58.840 --> 1:30:01.360 those dudes that aren't bad want you to to think this badass. 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:05.040 There's badasses that want you to know they're badasses. Then 1:30:05.080 --> 1:30:08.760 there's like badasses that that no, o, they're badasses, but 1:30:08.800 --> 1:30:12.120 they intentionally underplay it as sort of a move. And 1:30:12.120 --> 1:30:13.880 then there's a dude who's a badass. He doesn't even 1:30:13.920 --> 1:30:19.519 know he's a badass. He fell in the It hasn't 1:30:19.520 --> 1:30:22.519 even occurred to him that he's a badass. Dude, I 1:30:22.560 --> 1:30:26.120 wish we had that kind of podcast. Man walking some 1:30:26.240 --> 1:30:28.599 of bit. He said. Some days he walks thirty miles, 1:30:30.120 --> 1:30:32.759 just plops down wherever he is, wakes up, keeps walking. 1:30:33.439 --> 1:30:35.360 The only parts he doesn't like was when there's no water, 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:41.840 which is yeah, he had some nasty stories drinking out 1:30:41.840 --> 1:30:45.720 of stockponds, drinking out of stockponds and wyoming. How sick 1:30:45.760 --> 1:30:49.479 you get that manure flavored water. Yeah, he said, it's 1:30:49.560 --> 1:30:52.559 not fun when you have to force yourself to drink 1:30:52.600 --> 1:30:55.480 the water because it tastes so bad. It's all so bad. 1:30:55.720 --> 1:30:58.599 And he talked about interesting kind of hunger as he says, 1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:02.760 you get hungry to a point where hunger wakes you 1:31:02.880 --> 1:31:06.200 up in the middle of the night, which is an 1:31:06.200 --> 1:31:08.880 interesting kind of hunger. Yeah, I don't know if I've 1:31:08.920 --> 1:31:10.840 ever I don't think I've never woke up with the 1:31:11.000 --> 1:31:12.760 woke up and having to be like the thing that 1:31:12.840 --> 1:31:16.719 woke me up was hunger. And he was packing ramen, 1:31:16.760 --> 1:31:24.120 noodles and rice. He says freeze drives too expensive days. 1:31:24.160 --> 1:31:28.000 Have you ever been out of food long enough? You know? 1:31:28.000 --> 1:31:29.679 When I finished field train, they sent me to ranger 1:31:29.720 --> 1:31:33.720 school and Range Army Ranger schools kind of system for 1:31:33.920 --> 1:31:37.679 making you crazy uncomfortable is doing a lot of packing 1:31:37.760 --> 1:31:40.000 and humping through mountains and things like that, but it 1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:43.400 is starvation. They give you one m r E a 1:31:43.479 --> 1:31:47.679 day when you're operating at a very very high intensity level. 1:31:47.960 --> 1:31:51.880 I wouldn't say I woke up from hunger. We thought 1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:56.599 about food constantly the entire time you're in the field. There, 1:31:57.080 --> 1:32:00.879 you're probably thinking more about food than like the combat 1:32:01.520 --> 1:32:03.960 scenario that they're running. How many calories in an m 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:08.320 R E. They're pretty calorie dens. I mean they're they're 1:32:08.320 --> 1:32:11.040 they're made to be, you know, rations for troops in 1:32:11.040 --> 1:32:12.600 the field. I I don't know what the numbers, but 1:32:12.640 --> 1:32:15.120 I mean one is not enough to what we're doing. 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:16.800 And if you're on a patrol. You could be on 1:32:16.800 --> 1:32:19.759 a patrol at night, you'd have fifty people in your company, 1:32:19.840 --> 1:32:25.719 so spread out, you know, six yards apart. Somebody drops 1:32:25.760 --> 1:32:28.240 like a skittle that they'd squirreled away from their m 1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:32.519 R Like you could smell it from smell it, Like 1:32:32.600 --> 1:32:36.759 somebody is eating a skittle and somebody might have dropped 1:32:37.479 --> 1:32:42.760 skin and I and everybody knows. Everybody knows what's in 1:32:42.800 --> 1:32:46.160 the m R E. I got pneumonia during the course, 1:32:46.320 --> 1:32:49.400 and so they pulled me from from the block of 1:32:49.439 --> 1:32:52.280 trainers and they sent me the hospital. If I don't 1:32:52.360 --> 1:32:55.360 finish this course straight through, I won't start with my 1:32:55.400 --> 1:32:58.240 Advanced Seal Tactical Training Team to earn my tried and 1:32:58.240 --> 1:33:02.120 to like actually become a seal until like six months later. Like, 1:33:02.360 --> 1:33:04.040 if I got back from Rangers, go on time, I 1:33:04.040 --> 1:33:06.160 get to start with that class and become a Seal, 1:33:06.240 --> 1:33:08.920 Like real deal with the team. If I get bumped 1:33:09.000 --> 1:33:11.800 or rolled in this Ranger class and delayed that extra 1:33:11.960 --> 1:33:14.200 whatever three weeks, I would have to wait six My 1:33:14.560 --> 1:33:18.400 seal dream was now six eight months further away. So 1:33:18.400 --> 1:33:19.960 there's no way I wasn't making through this course. They 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:23.320 take me this hospital, doctors checking, a bunch of troops 1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:25.639 coming to me. He's like, yeah, pneumonia, gotta pull you. 1:33:26.680 --> 1:33:31.280 I was like, sir, please, what's the worst that happens 1:33:31.280 --> 1:33:32.800 if you don't pull me. He's like, you know, you'll 1:33:32.800 --> 1:33:34.200 pass out. You'd be in big trouble. I was like, 1:33:35.080 --> 1:33:37.160 can we make that deal. I'll come back. You see 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:38.920 me again. I'm willing to run the ridge. Like now 1:33:38.960 --> 1:33:41.599 I gotta pull. He walks out of the room. Nurse 1:33:41.640 --> 1:33:43.280 comes in and was like, well, the docks I set 1:33:43.320 --> 1:33:46.880 up good to go. She's like yeah. I was like yep. 1:33:47.720 --> 1:33:50.639 So she takes me out to the waiting room where 1:33:50.640 --> 1:33:53.920 the Ranger you know whatever folks would bring you back 1:33:53.920 --> 1:33:56.880 to the class. The whole time, I'm just praying I 1:33:56.920 --> 1:34:00.960 don't get made. She sits me in a little lounge area, 1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:03.719 and there were some bags of candy, like just little 1:34:03.720 --> 1:34:05.400 bags of candy, and there were peanut m and m's, 1:34:05.439 --> 1:34:08.000 which do not come in m R. E's, So I 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:12.120 pocket one of those things. Dan takes me back to 1:34:12.120 --> 1:34:14.439 my company. I get back out and that night I'm 1:34:14.479 --> 1:34:18.080 back with my team and uh my squad, like my 1:34:18.200 --> 1:34:20.759 four little dudes in this gun nest in this patrol 1:34:20.760 --> 1:34:22.840 base of this triangle patrol base where you'd set up 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:25.599 like it's old school tactics, where you'd set up three 1:34:26.120 --> 1:34:28.120 you know, the apex of the triangle. You'd have a 1:34:28.120 --> 1:34:30.160 big machine gun nests and everybody spread out in a 1:34:30.200 --> 1:34:32.679 triangle around it with defensive positions, leaderships in the middle, 1:34:32.760 --> 1:34:35.759 like making plans or whatever. I break out those peanut 1:34:35.840 --> 1:34:38.240 m and m's, you know, pass seven eight of them 1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:41.120 to each guy, and like the two dudes that weren't 1:34:41.120 --> 1:34:43.160 in our gun nests, they're like sitting there, can like 1:34:43.240 --> 1:34:45.280 smell the peanut m and ms. They're like looking up 1:34:45.320 --> 1:34:47.400 and they know for sure peanut m and ms don't 1:34:47.439 --> 1:34:50.120 come in an m R. E. And I'm looking over 1:34:50.200 --> 1:34:52.320 doing this to them, like if you say something to 1:34:52.360 --> 1:34:54.680 an instructor that like I brought these peanut and m m, 1:34:55.000 --> 1:34:56.920 it gets over for you. So if we're don't wrap 1:34:56.920 --> 1:34:58.160 me out, because like if you got if you got 1:34:58.200 --> 1:34:59.639 caught with something you were supposed to have, you get 1:34:59.680 --> 1:35:02.479 kicked out the program. But I made it through and 1:35:02.520 --> 1:35:04.599 got back to my team. But I was hungry, man. 1:35:04.720 --> 1:35:06.080 And the thing you want, the thing you want when 1:35:06.080 --> 1:35:08.000 you're that hungry as sugar. Sugar is the thing you 1:35:08.040 --> 1:35:10.040 want more, you know, you know what I what I 1:35:10.040 --> 1:35:11.840 want when I get super hungry is the ship that 1:35:12.080 --> 1:35:15.280 uh you're only going like a big gas station off 1:35:15.320 --> 1:35:19.120 the highway. You got those glass cases full of like 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:24.479 all that brown food. When I get like hungry, I 1:35:24.560 --> 1:35:29.479 think about going in and smashing going over to the 1:35:29.479 --> 1:35:31.200 side of my truck where I keep my pick axe 1:35:31.240 --> 1:35:33.760 mounted to the outside of my truck, and coming in 1:35:33.840 --> 1:35:37.519 and smashing that glass case open and eating all that 1:35:37.560 --> 1:35:39.280 brown food out of the inside of that thing. Why 1:35:39.280 --> 1:35:41.320 don't you just open the door to the case. It's 1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:43.400 gotta be just I'm just that hungry. The drama. Yeah, 1:35:43.520 --> 1:35:45.720 you don't have time. I don't want shattered glass all 1:35:45.720 --> 1:35:48.320 over all over the food. Yeah, to get into one 1:35:48.320 --> 1:35:51.599 of them brown food cases, because sometimes they take those things. 1:35:51.640 --> 1:35:53.519 It's like that you make like a breedo and fill 1:35:53.560 --> 1:35:56.519 it full of a real low grade barbecue meat and 1:35:56.520 --> 1:35:58.439 then deep fry that thing and then put it in 1:35:58.439 --> 1:36:00.719 that case under that red glue lamp for a few days. 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:05.320 Oh my god, those things look good. Maybe this is 1:36:05.400 --> 1:36:08.120 just for a personal deal with me, but I feel 1:36:08.120 --> 1:36:09.840 like it for me, it was much worse when I 1:36:09.880 --> 1:36:12.880 was younger, Like we went and did our honeymoon in 1:36:12.920 --> 1:36:15.840 New Zealand and backpacked around for like five or six weeks, 1:36:16.200 --> 1:36:17.840 and I feel like that's all I could think about 1:36:17.840 --> 1:36:19.240 as soon as I get on the trail, and we'd 1:36:19.240 --> 1:36:21.120 be out there just long enough to be away from, 1:36:21.160 --> 1:36:23.639 you know, restaurant food. I just be like, next meal, 1:36:23.800 --> 1:36:25.640 next meal, what's in the pack? I can't wait to 1:36:25.640 --> 1:36:27.599 eat that, this, that and the other. Now I feel 1:36:27.600 --> 1:36:31.280 like I haven't had those thoughts on the trail for 1:36:31.680 --> 1:36:33.599 I don't get on the trail. I get as soon 1:36:33.600 --> 1:36:37.919 as I stop hiking, you start thinking about food, smashing 1:36:37.960 --> 1:36:41.639 the gas station glass case and raiding the brown fisture. Well, 1:36:41.760 --> 1:36:43.880 I'm just saying in general, when you're out in the woods, 1:36:43.880 --> 1:36:46.200 like I just don't And maybe I'm just better at 1:36:46.200 --> 1:36:49.799 feeding myself. I don't know. The sugar thing is interesting 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:53.200 because we got done with a pretty big hike the 1:36:53.240 --> 1:36:54.720 other morning. When we were sitting there, when we met 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:59.080 Soda Pop and I think his name was Soda. Referred 1:36:59.120 --> 1:37:04.760 to him to his face has has old, but his 1:37:05.680 --> 1:37:09.679 real name was Soda Trail. His trail name Soda. Yeah, 1:37:09.720 --> 1:37:12.040 we met Soda. We had a giant bag of gummy 1:37:12.080 --> 1:37:13.960 bears and we bought when we went grocery shopping like 1:37:14.000 --> 1:37:16.960 we do before all these trips and those went fast. Man, 1:37:17.760 --> 1:37:21.320 like you notice this sort of uh you hand He 1:37:21.360 --> 1:37:22.880 tried to hand him a handful of pro bars and 1:37:22.920 --> 1:37:25.080 he wouldn't take him. Yeah, he didn't. He refused. I 1:37:25.080 --> 1:37:27.600 just saw offered him any just a snack because the 1:37:27.640 --> 1:37:30.080 restaurants were sitting around eating and I figured this guy 1:37:30.160 --> 1:37:35.000 hes been felt like he wanted it, but I wouldn't 1:37:35.000 --> 1:37:37.639 take it. He was wasn't he going into town? Yeah, 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:39.800 he felt like he wanted he didn't take it. He 1:37:39.880 --> 1:37:42.799 was fixing to have a good meal in town. Dude, 1:37:42.920 --> 1:37:46.439 all we had to offer bars man for four months. 1:37:46.479 --> 1:37:48.200 I don't think he wants to look at another bar 1:37:48.360 --> 1:37:54.639 when he knows that there's want a bowl rice? Uh yeah, 1:37:54.760 --> 1:38:00.960 so we've been dogging on that. There's there's expectations. Oh, 1:38:01.120 --> 1:38:04.519 that's almost your day with this ecological principle. My brother 1:38:04.600 --> 1:38:11.360 just introduced me to um opt the optimal niche did. 1:38:11.360 --> 1:38:16.240 They teach about this in forestry optimal optimal niche and 1:38:16.400 --> 1:38:23.040 realized niche. As some people might say, where do you 1:38:23.080 --> 1:38:25.240 go with rour? You're good at Yeah, you're very good. 1:38:25.600 --> 1:38:29.680 One of the things. You're very very good at pronunciation 1:38:29.760 --> 1:38:32.080 and annunciation. I like that stuff is important to me. 1:38:32.120 --> 1:38:35.200 But I have a little bit of a like. I 1:38:35.240 --> 1:38:38.080 don't like when people use it's like the one word 1:38:38.080 --> 1:38:41.280 out of character that they use that whatever the standard 1:38:41.960 --> 1:38:45.160 variant of, they pick the one that's a little bit cooler, 1:38:46.560 --> 1:38:50.360 you know, Like, what's a good example our last president 1:38:50.400 --> 1:38:52.720 being like Pakistan. You know what you'd say it like, 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:55.800 it's Pakistan man. We all say Pakistan. I know they 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:57.400 might say it, that's not the way we say it. 1:38:57.760 --> 1:39:00.439 I got you, So for me, I say niche. My 1:39:00.479 --> 1:39:03.879 wife is leaning on me very heavily to stop saying Iran. 1:39:06.600 --> 1:39:09.599 She has a friend from there. She's like, please, it's 1:39:09.640 --> 1:39:11.720 not Iran. I'm like, I just think it is. Now, 1:39:12.479 --> 1:39:16.120 how do you pronounce it? You're wrong, I can't do it. 1:39:16.640 --> 1:39:21.240 You can't say chile. Yeah exactly, I feel the same chili. Sorry. 1:39:22.560 --> 1:39:25.960 Uh yeah. I don't walk around saying you guys should 1:39:25.960 --> 1:39:34.360 all call it a latvia. Uh. This has not to 1:39:34.360 --> 1:39:36.200 do with anybody. I think it's a really interesting idea. 1:39:36.439 --> 1:39:41.479 Is Um, we're hiking up elk Hunton back home, and 1:39:42.200 --> 1:39:45.120 we're looking at there's a lot of just shiploads of raspberries, 1:39:46.000 --> 1:39:47.840 and it just so happens that I've been clearing a 1:39:47.880 --> 1:39:50.120 place in my yard to start my own raspberry patch, 1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:52.679 and there's all these wild raspberries. And I was saying 1:39:52.680 --> 1:39:55.679 to my brother, who deals in plants, he's an a cologist. Um, 1:39:55.840 --> 1:39:58.360 I was saying, Hey, what do you think if I 1:39:58.400 --> 1:40:02.760 took this little ship in raspberries and brought them home? 1:40:03.640 --> 1:40:05.360 Would they be like, this is the greatest place on 1:40:05.439 --> 1:40:08.639 earth and grow into the giant raspberries that you grow 1:40:08.680 --> 1:40:11.280 in your yard where they always be little ship in 1:40:11.840 --> 1:40:15.040 mountain raspberries. And he said, I don't know the answer 1:40:15.080 --> 1:40:17.000 to that. I could see it going both ways. And 1:40:17.000 --> 1:40:21.040 he said, but there's this thing, there's uh optimal niche 1:40:21.400 --> 1:40:25.360 I think the optimal niche and realize niche, meaning there 1:40:25.400 --> 1:40:29.680 are probably many plant species that would like to be 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:36.000 in a certain place, like ideally they would occupy this niche. 1:40:36.720 --> 1:40:39.200 But because it's suitable for a lot of plant species 1:40:39.200 --> 1:40:41.840 and it's very perfect for plants, there's a lot of 1:40:41.880 --> 1:40:46.639 pressure there, and plants have varying degrees of being able 1:40:46.680 --> 1:40:49.559 to deal with stress, and they have varying degrees of 1:40:49.600 --> 1:40:53.040 being able to combat other plants through the production of 1:40:53.120 --> 1:40:56.639 toxins and aggressive rhizome structures, and they don't do well 1:40:56.680 --> 1:41:01.360 in battles, so they wind up grow owing not where 1:41:01.360 --> 1:41:04.679 they should grow, but they grow where they can grow. 1:41:06.400 --> 1:41:09.600 And he was saying it maybe that this plant's stature 1:41:10.400 --> 1:41:13.360 is the result of it's not where it really I 1:41:13.400 --> 1:41:15.439 would love to be, it's just where it can be. 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:18.320 It's a low pressure, low stress environment for to be. 1:41:18.760 --> 1:41:20.600 And if you had some little plot of ground and 1:41:20.600 --> 1:41:23.200 you plucked every freaking weed out of there and made 1:41:23.200 --> 1:41:25.840 it perfect and put him there, he might then realize 1:41:25.880 --> 1:41:28.840 his full potential of what he, like quote should look like, 1:41:29.840 --> 1:41:33.240 which is a thought was an interesting idea. Um I 1:41:33.320 --> 1:41:36.280 bring it up because we had come into this with 1:41:36.760 --> 1:41:40.840 high expectations you'll see that this is a horrible segment 1:41:40.840 --> 1:41:42.320 because its not the same ship, but it has to 1:41:42.320 --> 1:41:44.880 do with like the realized thing and you had observation 1:41:45.000 --> 1:41:47.880 last night. We're like, once I got over the of 1:41:47.880 --> 1:41:50.160 being in this unit L County, once I got over 1:41:50.200 --> 1:41:53.280 the disappointment of it not being what I realized what 1:41:53.360 --> 1:41:58.120 I wanted and aligned my expectations that wanted being okay, 1:41:58.360 --> 1:41:59.640 Like I want to be in an okay place to 1:41:59.680 --> 1:42:03.360 run run around. It just took five days to get 1:42:03.360 --> 1:42:10.600 over the man. Yeah, another truck, another guy. In the end, 1:42:10.640 --> 1:42:12.600 you're like, oh, it's pretty fun and I gotta be 1:42:12.600 --> 1:42:15.240 totally honest. Man. On day one, on day one of 1:42:15.280 --> 1:42:21.240 the hunt, we heard a bugle. Um wrote it off 1:42:21.240 --> 1:42:23.280 as being a mug. Kind of wrote it off as 1:42:23.280 --> 1:42:27.160 being a mug. Had to be a person got in there. Well, 1:42:27.240 --> 1:42:30.200 we might have heard the person. Oh it could be 1:42:30.200 --> 1:42:32.360 because we only heard one. The rest of the crew 1:42:32.880 --> 1:42:36.160 was listening to was sounding like a bugle. Battle. Day one, 1:42:36.760 --> 1:42:39.080 we do get into three young bulls and they were 1:42:39.120 --> 1:42:41.879 half spoot and so we're calling at three young bulls 1:42:42.520 --> 1:42:45.040 and then kind of see this other bull which want 1:42:45.040 --> 1:42:46.799 to be in one of the three young bulls. But anyways, 1:42:46.960 --> 1:42:50.800 moved and then bumped an elk that was like under 1:42:50.840 --> 1:42:56.360 our feet, and that could have been the high likelihood 1:42:56.360 --> 1:42:58.920 that was another bull. For sure there was coming up 1:42:58.960 --> 1:43:00.960 to check out, because we'd be year old and whatnot. 1:43:01.000 --> 1:43:02.519 Could have been in our bowl. He has never made 1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:04.679 any noise, and it could have been that we would 1:43:04.680 --> 1:43:06.920 have not moved up to see and he popped out, 1:43:06.960 --> 1:43:09.360 and it could have been right, we're in with a bowl. 1:43:10.240 --> 1:43:12.160 Then there was kind of a very like there's a 1:43:12.280 --> 1:43:15.799 sort of peculiarity of this place that these elk were, 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:17.800 and it kind of made sense of like it was 1:43:17.800 --> 1:43:19.479 like like a little hidy hole. They had a lot 1:43:19.479 --> 1:43:21.439 of pressure blow him. It was sort of like a 1:43:21.479 --> 1:43:23.120 spot where you could picture they kind of found a 1:43:23.160 --> 1:43:27.400 little solace and watch this, watch this, uh full circle, 1:43:28.760 --> 1:43:31.280 not in they're optimal, not in their optimal niche, but 1:43:31.320 --> 1:43:34.920 they found some solace and they realized niche that was 1:43:35.200 --> 1:43:37.880 freaking cliff face now where he wanted to be. If 1:43:37.880 --> 1:43:39.479 it was out to him, he'd be laying out in 1:43:39.520 --> 1:43:43.960 the biggest, grassiest metal down in the valley bottom, but 1:43:44.000 --> 1:43:46.800 he couldn't because of pressure. He had to go to 1:43:46.880 --> 1:43:50.160 his realized niche, which was like a cliff face. Um, 1:43:50.240 --> 1:43:53.880 we went back in there and found a bowl and 1:43:53.960 --> 1:43:57.680 had like six days of hunting. This is this is 1:43:57.720 --> 1:44:01.559 in defense of this area. Six days of hunting. And 1:44:01.640 --> 1:44:03.920 if you said to someone you're gonna hunt out for 1:44:03.960 --> 1:44:07.759 six days and you're gonna have one like unbelievable encounter, 1:44:08.280 --> 1:44:12.920 what would most people say? I feel that they would 1:44:12.920 --> 1:44:17.519 say a deal, six days for one unbelievable encounter. Yeah, 1:44:17.560 --> 1:44:21.120 and then and then sprinkled other encounters, sprinkle, but one 1:44:21.280 --> 1:44:24.479 like Yes, the average hunter would say, deal, Yep, you're 1:44:24.479 --> 1:44:26.400 gonna hu You're gonna work your ass over six days. 1:44:26.479 --> 1:44:28.120 You're gonna have some days you don't see ship. You 1:44:28.120 --> 1:44:30.080 can have some days where you have like a half encounter, 1:44:30.280 --> 1:44:32.960 and then I'm gonna present you with one like great encounter. 1:44:33.960 --> 1:44:36.080 I feel a lot of guys be like, yeah, that's reasonable, 1:44:36.080 --> 1:44:38.360 I'll take it, and we have I mean, everybody knows that, 1:44:38.439 --> 1:44:41.679 you know, I think six sex rates with a gun. 1:44:41.720 --> 1:44:43.960 I don't know if the difference between rifle muzzleloader, but 1:44:43.960 --> 1:44:48.240 I want to say in Colorado hovers around, and so 1:44:48.360 --> 1:44:49.960 being that we had two hunters in camp and that 1:44:50.160 --> 1:44:53.760 you just almost killed one, you know, we almost beat 1:44:53.840 --> 1:44:57.680 the the yearly average, you know. Yeah, we went up 1:44:57.720 --> 1:44:59.880 with our baby stuff, our camp out stuff, and when 1:45:00.040 --> 1:45:02.960 up to um this little ridge stop that sits at 1:45:03.240 --> 1:45:07.280 the ridge stops eleven thousand, four feet mm hmye. And 1:45:07.400 --> 1:45:09.519 got there at four o'clock in the afternoon. Man, look 1:45:09.600 --> 1:45:12.080 down into this kind of like the same kind of 1:45:12.320 --> 1:45:13.960 there's a couple of miles away from where we ran 1:45:13.960 --> 1:45:16.360 into those three bulls, like the same feature, the same 1:45:16.439 --> 1:45:20.360 landscape feature, and same basic setup, and went down in 1:45:20.360 --> 1:45:23.559 there four o'clock in the afternoon. Here's a bull playing 1:45:23.560 --> 1:45:26.519 grab at or following a cow and a calf, and 1:45:26.600 --> 1:45:28.280 he might even put kicked up out of her bed, 1:45:28.320 --> 1:45:32.760 but he's following her along. So we gradually gradually get 1:45:32.760 --> 1:45:35.200 down in the zone and try calling here, and try 1:45:35.240 --> 1:45:36.960 calling there, and then we get to where we know, 1:45:37.280 --> 1:45:40.040 like the meadal we know they were in and start 1:45:40.080 --> 1:45:45.320 calling and right away a kyle pops up at eighty yards, looks, 1:45:46.120 --> 1:45:49.400 watches for a long time where the sounds coming from, 1:45:49.600 --> 1:45:52.240 goes back into the woods and comes up in parallels 1:45:52.320 --> 1:45:56.400 us very close, goes out of whatever happens to her. 1:45:57.240 --> 1:45:59.240 Then also there's a bull down there and he comes 1:45:59.240 --> 1:46:01.280 out the same gay happened, has to look around, and 1:46:01.280 --> 1:46:05.400 then pretty soon a bunch of appreciate another little ship 1:46:05.479 --> 1:46:07.960 and bull comes in alongside and sneaks in to get 1:46:07.960 --> 1:46:12.000 a look. Probably not legal. And then all these cows 1:46:12.040 --> 1:46:14.679 come out and a bull comes out, and we're calling 1:46:14.720 --> 1:46:16.439 at the bull. He's had a hundred I had said 1:46:16.479 --> 1:46:18.040 to myself, like we always talk, oh, like a hundred 1:46:18.080 --> 1:46:21.599 yards for a muzzleloader, which is far for open sites. 1:46:22.400 --> 1:46:24.799 He's hanging around a hundred twenty yards. We start bugling 1:46:24.840 --> 1:46:28.120 at him, and he's like raking mud up, raking hunks 1:46:28.160 --> 1:46:31.640 the grass up. Finally he comes over to chase a 1:46:31.680 --> 1:46:34.479 cow and comes into eight yards and I get my 1:46:34.920 --> 1:46:40.920 shot opportunity, and I pull off what everyone warned me, 1:46:41.600 --> 1:46:46.519 not what everyone multiple highly credentialed individuals warned me about 1:46:46.600 --> 1:46:52.080 with shooting muzzleloaders, meaning you honest Brody and Remy Warren 1:46:53.040 --> 1:46:56.559 all said, you have to hit that thing just right 1:46:56.640 --> 1:47:01.120 with a muzzleloader. Um, don't shoot him in the shoulders 1:47:01.160 --> 1:47:05.439 because if you hit them, you think Remy made a joke. 1:47:05.479 --> 1:47:06.960 Oh yeah, they go down to hard and get up 1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:11.760 and they're gone. And this thing came like I said 1:47:11.760 --> 1:47:15.320 it came to eight yards, turned broadside. I drew a 1:47:15.320 --> 1:47:16.960 beat on it, but it's not a percent. Like with 1:47:17.040 --> 1:47:19.240 open sites. I know the guys that shooting their whole 1:47:19.280 --> 1:47:22.280 life are very good with them, like they're great with them. 1:47:22.320 --> 1:47:24.840 But I didn't do In hindsight, I didn't do the 1:47:24.840 --> 1:47:26.880 practice I should have done. I mean, I grew up 1:47:26.880 --> 1:47:29.680 shooting open sites two open site twenty two is that 1:47:29.720 --> 1:47:32.080 squirrels and stuff. But as a long time ago, I've 1:47:32.080 --> 1:47:33.920 been like a scope dude forever. But you can't use 1:47:33.920 --> 1:47:35.760 the scope in Colorado. And I should have done way 1:47:35.760 --> 1:47:41.080 more practice. I leveled off. I felt good, pull the trigger. 1:47:41.120 --> 1:47:47.040 He goes down like like even down like insert favorite 1:47:47.080 --> 1:47:49.200 like hit by lightning, hit by a truck, hit by 1:47:49.200 --> 1:47:56.160 a train, sacrimotatus and back up and gone. And we 1:47:56.640 --> 1:47:58.960 like found some blood that night, a little bit of 1:47:58.960 --> 1:48:02.920 blood that night. Ran it down to like just a 1:48:03.040 --> 1:48:05.400 pin drop. And we'd only moved the trail. I mean, 1:48:05.400 --> 1:48:08.360 when we'd moved the trail hundred yards if not even 1:48:08.400 --> 1:48:12.400 a freaking drop. Came back early in the morning, early morning, 1:48:12.439 --> 1:48:16.000 came back at daybreak, after daybreak. Uh. I got down 1:48:16.000 --> 1:48:18.360 there seven thirty eight am maybe eight am. Come later 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:21.040 I don't tell it was it's cold, got down there, 1:48:21.120 --> 1:48:23.360 started trailing again, and it was a cold night. So 1:48:23.400 --> 1:48:24.760 I was feeling like, if we could find this thing 1:48:24.920 --> 1:48:26.640 with the meats, gonna be fine because it's a chilly night. 1:48:27.360 --> 1:48:30.240 Um pick up from that last pinprick of blood and 1:48:30.360 --> 1:48:34.280 never find another pinprick of blood until probably a hundred 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:38.280 fifty yards later, just by following every possible elk trail, 1:48:38.360 --> 1:48:41.200 every possible elk track, I finally find a pine branch, 1:48:41.240 --> 1:48:43.840 a bust it off pine branch sitting at shoulder height 1:48:43.920 --> 1:48:46.400 high shoulder height. They had a little blood wiped on it. 1:48:47.920 --> 1:48:50.880 And then we followed from there every elk track, every 1:48:50.920 --> 1:48:53.120 possible trail, back and forth, in and out, never no 1:48:53.280 --> 1:48:58.640 drop of blood. It's rough, man, It sounds like you 1:48:58.720 --> 1:49:03.880 hit the void. Yeah, it's crazy too, because like you 1:49:05.439 --> 1:49:08.080 like how hard he fell and hit the ground. It's 1:49:08.120 --> 1:49:11.840 like you think game over. Yeah, but Noah, if Rourke 1:49:12.000 --> 1:49:15.000 cocked back and punched me in the face, how hard 1:49:15.000 --> 1:49:18.120 do I hit the ground just like that? But would 1:49:18.120 --> 1:49:22.880 I be dead? It depends on depends on what kind 1:49:22.880 --> 1:49:26.320 of day lurks have, and I imagine it probably the 1:49:26.600 --> 1:49:29.680 depends on the angle that he hits yet. Do you know? 1:49:29.880 --> 1:49:32.640 Uh Rourke told me the story one time about you 1:49:32.640 --> 1:49:35.160 guys are doing something kind of raid and he sees 1:49:35.160 --> 1:49:38.080 a dude running out of the he catches a guy 1:49:38.160 --> 1:49:41.599 run and tell that story, my guy. I let my 1:49:41.600 --> 1:49:44.839 my junior officers run that raid. So myself and my 1:49:44.840 --> 1:49:47.080 my boss my task. You matter, good, buddy of mine. 1:49:47.200 --> 1:49:50.559 We're sitting outside the compound but inside the security blanket 1:49:50.560 --> 1:49:52.160 of our gun trucks were in a pretty good spot, 1:49:52.240 --> 1:49:55.600 but night vision on still in the tackle environment, and 1:49:55.600 --> 1:49:57.599 we had a squirter, which means a guy that got 1:49:57.640 --> 1:49:59.200 over the fence and was running. But he was on 1:49:59.240 --> 1:50:02.760 the target and he jumped over this fence and I 1:50:02.800 --> 1:50:04.800 was on night vision wash him unarmed. He didn't have 1:50:04.800 --> 1:50:07.000 a weapon on him, but he could have gone right, 1:50:07.680 --> 1:50:09.640 which would have served him well, because I do not 1:50:09.760 --> 1:50:12.439 believe with all my battle gear on, I would have 1:50:12.479 --> 1:50:15.479 ever caught him. But he hung a left and was 1:50:15.560 --> 1:50:19.680 not a jog running straight at me, and I stood up. 1:50:19.760 --> 1:50:21.640 He didn't hear me stand up, and took about a 1:50:21.720 --> 1:50:26.960 five to eight step Linebacker Lawrence Taylor esk run and 1:50:27.000 --> 1:50:29.719 put my shoulder into that dude to just knock him down. 1:50:30.640 --> 1:50:34.160 And his body exploded. Oh my god, I thought I 1:50:34.240 --> 1:50:36.599 killed him. I thought I killed him. I actually felt back. 1:50:37.000 --> 1:50:38.960 I didn't know, uh you know, I didn't know. He 1:50:39.040 --> 1:50:41.599 might might might have just been like the teenage son 1:50:41.720 --> 1:50:43.800 of the guy we're going after whatever. But I mean 1:50:43.840 --> 1:50:46.400 he I've never hit any by heart than any sport game. 1:50:46.400 --> 1:50:48.519 But I we know we picked him up and grabbed him, 1:50:48.520 --> 1:50:51.000 got him, got him off all right. But I don't 1:50:51.000 --> 1:50:55.559 think he'll ever forget that hit. But uh yeah, like again, 1:50:55.600 --> 1:50:57.280 man to go back to this thing, like someone's got 1:50:57.320 --> 1:50:58.400 a gun in your head and you had to get 1:50:58.400 --> 1:51:01.559 an answer, right and they said, is that that elk 1:51:01.920 --> 1:51:05.400 alive right now or dead right now? I would go along. 1:51:05.439 --> 1:51:08.479 I would probably like in that situation, I would I would. 1:51:08.680 --> 1:51:10.000 I think I said this the third day, I would 1:51:10.040 --> 1:51:12.280 say alive, but I would half expect to hear the 1:51:12.320 --> 1:51:16.920 gun go off. I just don't know. Um it was. 1:51:17.160 --> 1:51:19.280 It was confused enough. Where's the thing I like, I 1:51:19.320 --> 1:51:22.200 feel like I should start doing haven't typically done in 1:51:22.240 --> 1:51:24.360 the past by kind of like I'm interested in. The 1:51:24.439 --> 1:51:27.360 idea is if you get a wound, if you wound 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:30.559 something where there's a good likelihood that you killed it, 1:51:30.920 --> 1:51:33.439 I'm interested in the idea and this there's some units 1:51:33.439 --> 1:51:36.759 where this is how it works. There's BlackBerry units in Alaska. 1:51:36.840 --> 1:51:39.040 Or if you if you wound an animal, you're not 1:51:39.160 --> 1:51:42.880 your tag. Um. So with that, I was like, you 1:51:42.880 --> 1:51:45.519 know what, man, I'm done. I'm done. Um. I have 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:48.920 never done that in the past when I had something 1:51:48.960 --> 1:51:51.479 to get away. Uh, never done that past, But I'm 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:53.200 and I don't know that I'll always do in the future. 1:51:53.320 --> 1:51:55.519 But in that moment, I was coming man because Rourke 1:51:55.560 --> 1:51:57.479 still had a tag. It was like, I'd rather put 1:51:57.600 --> 1:52:01.880 energy into having Roorke having equal opportunity rather than racking 1:52:01.960 --> 1:52:04.479 up to opportunite. Know what I mean. I don't know that. 1:52:04.520 --> 1:52:06.240 I don't know that that's like a rule for me, 1:52:06.520 --> 1:52:11.559 but that I just felt like, maybe some black bear 1:52:11.600 --> 1:52:14.280 is going to go into hibernation and extremely good shape 1:52:16.720 --> 1:52:20.360 because of that bear, because of that Elk carcass. I 1:52:20.400 --> 1:52:23.040 don't know. The thing I talked about too when we 1:52:23.080 --> 1:52:24.800 were making the show and I talked about this was 1:52:25.080 --> 1:52:26.519 I got a body. I don't wanted to say where 1:52:26.560 --> 1:52:28.040 it works, but I got a buddy that works for 1:52:28.080 --> 1:52:31.920 a big grocery store chain. One day sends me a 1:52:31.960 --> 1:52:34.720 picture you know those dumpsters, what do you call those 1:52:34.760 --> 1:52:37.080 dumpsters that you carry on a flatbed semi trailer? Like 1:52:37.640 --> 1:52:39.320 I don't know what a huge freaking dumpsters, you know 1:52:39.320 --> 1:52:40.640 what I mean? Like it's like a semi trailer, but 1:52:40.640 --> 1:52:46.320 it's a dumpster full of package pork because someone has 1:52:46.360 --> 1:52:48.560 screwed up taking a refrigerator truck and put it like 1:52:48.600 --> 1:52:51.559 in the wrong spot so it didn't get off loaded. 1:52:53.439 --> 1:52:55.200 And he was like they wouldn't even let him take 1:52:55.240 --> 1:52:58.240 it home, and it took all all this package pork 1:52:58.320 --> 1:53:01.400 was in this giant freaking dumpster going to a landfill, 1:53:01.560 --> 1:53:05.920 and you're like, what a waste of animal life? You know, 1:53:06.080 --> 1:53:09.160 Like what a waste of life to go to a 1:53:09.280 --> 1:53:13.360 landfill wrapped in plastic. And then this thing I always 1:53:13.360 --> 1:53:15.120 come to do, like if you hit something and lose 1:53:15.160 --> 1:53:19.599 it out in the environment, you know. My brother pointed 1:53:19.640 --> 1:53:21.240 out one time, it's like if you think it's wasteful, 1:53:21.280 --> 1:53:24.720 then you really don't believe in nutrient recycling because it's 1:53:24.760 --> 1:53:26.960 like they're in its place. It's sort of like eventually 1:53:27.000 --> 1:53:29.960 the animal is gonna die. Eventually that animal will die 1:53:30.680 --> 1:53:35.519 and will become food for other things. Um, and maybe 1:53:35.520 --> 1:53:37.400 that's what happened there and it died and it becomes 1:53:37.400 --> 1:53:39.280 food for other things. I'm not saying that this excuses it. 1:53:39.320 --> 1:53:41.840 I'm just saying like it's one of the many complicated 1:53:41.840 --> 1:53:44.200 things that rolls through your head where you're like, you 1:53:44.280 --> 1:53:49.960 feel like like one, you screwed up. You didn't aim carefully, 1:53:50.120 --> 1:53:53.760 you didn't prepare, you got excited, you did all this 1:53:53.840 --> 1:53:57.600 stupid stuff. Now you've caused this thing like pain, and 1:53:57.640 --> 1:54:00.080 there's no sort of human gain, like you know, you 1:54:00.320 --> 1:54:03.920 don't gain the resource like you screwed up. And then 1:54:03.960 --> 1:54:06.160 you go like, yeah, but maybe I'll feel better when 1:54:06.160 --> 1:54:08.559 I roll these ideas, this collection of ideas through my 1:54:08.600 --> 1:54:14.840 head about right, some bear is loving or not, or 1:54:14.880 --> 1:54:17.880 some elk or some elk is having a very very 1:54:17.880 --> 1:54:24.200 bad winter. Yeah, yeah, it sucks to think about the 1:54:24.240 --> 1:54:29.040 suffering they may or may not go through. That's a 1:54:29.040 --> 1:54:31.680 pretty big hole most likely because it went through I'm 1:54:31.720 --> 1:54:33.920 betting both sides, you know, through the top of the 1:54:33.960 --> 1:54:36.200 right I don't know. Yeah, how do you if it 1:54:36.240 --> 1:54:38.560 was a big hole? How there was like no blood, man, 1:54:39.160 --> 1:54:42.320 Because it's that's the void, man, that's the spot between 1:54:42.320 --> 1:54:44.080 the spine and the top of the bongs and it's 1:54:44.120 --> 1:54:48.440 just there. If I was able to just probably to 1:54:48.520 --> 1:54:50.920 take a knife, I think, and puncture your ribs, but 1:54:51.040 --> 1:54:57.280 not go into anything farther, you know, But like you're 1:54:58.240 --> 1:55:00.680 your ribs and your meat right there, you know, and 1:55:00.800 --> 1:55:03.680 unless you go inside and catch something internal, but just 1:55:03.840 --> 1:55:07.040 you're just your chunk or ribs. Because even made the 1:55:07.080 --> 1:55:09.040 comment of like you, I guess your your hand has 1:55:09.080 --> 1:55:11.520 a lot been a lot more blood if someone cut 1:55:11.560 --> 1:55:13.680 their fingers, but your hands are Yeah, you got a 1:55:13.680 --> 1:55:16.160 lot of stuff going on. Did my brother cut his 1:55:16.160 --> 1:55:18.200 finger in there day? We couldn't get it stop leaping. 1:55:18.680 --> 1:55:21.080 He's blood over damn. Imagine too, it's shaped, you know, 1:55:21.240 --> 1:55:24.120 barrel like and if it's up high, you know that 1:55:24.120 --> 1:55:26.680 blood has a chance to like one has to be 1:55:26.720 --> 1:55:28.440 pumped up and out of that all and then as 1:55:28.520 --> 1:55:34.760 it's coming down, you know, it's drying, coagulating. What happens. Yeah, 1:55:34.840 --> 1:55:36.920 and then you just didn't hit anything vital. I don't 1:55:36.920 --> 1:55:39.000 know anybody's ever quit hunting over it. But it's like, 1:55:39.840 --> 1:55:41.440 you know, if you're gonna go out in the woods, 1:55:41.600 --> 1:55:43.080 I guess you just gotta there's gotta be a certain 1:55:43.080 --> 1:55:44.520 amount of thing if you're gonna go out in the 1:55:44.560 --> 1:55:46.960 woods and shoot projectiles and stuff with the intent of 1:55:47.120 --> 1:55:51.200 killing it. You better you better be like real frank 1:55:51.320 --> 1:55:56.280 with yourself about the pallatability of that not working out. 1:55:57.280 --> 1:55:59.880 It's not binary. I was listening to this Galaza and 1:56:00.000 --> 1:56:01.560 a Day about his antelope punch she's been on. She 1:56:01.640 --> 1:56:04.280 talked about how she like, she's like, quote missed nine 1:56:04.320 --> 1:56:07.720 and then got one. I'm like, I I have to 1:56:07.760 --> 1:56:10.920 think that it wasn't binary that a couple of them 1:56:10.920 --> 1:56:14.120 got hit. I mean, do you really go nine misses 1:56:14.200 --> 1:56:16.040 but then all of a sudden you kill one? Yea? 1:56:17.120 --> 1:56:20.040 Or is there some gray in there? It's gotta be 1:56:20.080 --> 1:56:22.840 some gray. It's not binary. That's the thing. The first 1:56:22.840 --> 1:56:24.600 time I took my wife on, she never factored in. 1:56:24.720 --> 1:56:26.400 She thought I took her squirrel, and she thought either 1:56:26.480 --> 1:56:27.880 killed it or hit it. And she hit one in 1:56:27.880 --> 1:56:30.960 the ear m hmm, and it ran up a tree 1:56:31.000 --> 1:56:33.080 and kind of like mess with its ear for a minute, 1:56:33.440 --> 1:56:34.920 and it had like it looked like when a deer 1:56:34.960 --> 1:56:36.920 gets caught on barbed war. You can see it. I mean, 1:56:36.920 --> 1:56:38.760 we're in my mom's yard, I should point out, but 1:56:39.600 --> 1:56:41.680 you can see him up there and he's like totally fine. 1:56:41.720 --> 1:56:43.320 But she's like, it never occurred to me there would 1:56:43.320 --> 1:56:45.920 be anything other than one or the other. I thought. 1:56:45.960 --> 1:56:47.720 I was like, on off, I didn't know there's a 1:56:47.800 --> 1:56:54.760 middle switch. But what about like this is probably a 1:56:54.800 --> 1:56:57.880 little controversial, but please, well when you get into like 1:56:58.040 --> 1:57:05.640 we're gonna talk evential bid absolutely not hit me with 1:57:05.680 --> 1:57:10.480 the controversy. I don't know. After the after the couple 1:57:10.480 --> 1:57:12.800 of bow hunts we went on, which which would nothing 1:57:12.840 --> 1:57:16.280 bad happened, but just the hitting the elk and then 1:57:16.520 --> 1:57:18.360 finding it the next day. That was my first experience 1:57:18.360 --> 1:57:20.200 of that because every other meter I've done was rifle, 1:57:20.640 --> 1:57:23.040 and I mean, you're a good shot. So you hit it, 1:57:23.200 --> 1:57:25.360 the fucking animal drops and that's it and we go 1:57:25.400 --> 1:57:27.560 and clean it up and we start eating it. Yeah, 1:57:27.760 --> 1:57:29.840 and it's a whole. It's that's the binary thing. It's 1:57:29.840 --> 1:57:33.160 like that happened and now we're enjoying it, and now 1:57:33.200 --> 1:57:36.320 with muzzle loaders to like it happens where we shoot 1:57:36.360 --> 1:57:39.840 one and it goes away. So like I'm having a 1:57:39.920 --> 1:57:47.800 struggle accepting those as viable means of hunting, like ethically, 1:57:48.160 --> 1:57:50.200 like I know people can miss and you can do 1:57:50.240 --> 1:57:52.920 it with a rifle, but in my experience. Based on 1:57:52.960 --> 1:57:55.480 what I've seen, it's like if you are if you 1:57:55.520 --> 1:57:57.560 practice with the rife and you're a good shot, you 1:57:58.320 --> 1:58:00.800 like the animal is done and quick, and it just 1:58:00.840 --> 1:58:04.200 seems very clean and ethical and like how it should be. 1:58:04.240 --> 1:58:07.120 And when you introduced these like traditional things, it just 1:58:07.160 --> 1:58:10.080 seems more of like an ego thing that people are after, like, oh, 1:58:10.120 --> 1:58:12.440 I can get it with a stick. You know. It's like, 1:58:13.000 --> 1:58:15.600 well that's great for you, man, But now you just 1:58:16.120 --> 1:58:19.080 interrupted this thing, and you know, because well you know what, 1:58:19.160 --> 1:58:22.600 you know what helps it helps answer it? What the 1:58:22.760 --> 1:58:31.600 only there's more in the equation than animal suffering. There's 1:58:31.720 --> 1:58:36.400 efficacy because again, you're dealing with a finite resource, and 1:58:36.440 --> 1:58:40.280 the way to enable the way to enable a larger 1:58:40.320 --> 1:58:46.920 pool of people to have an opportunity to extract from 1:58:46.920 --> 1:58:51.240 a finite resource is to regulate efficacy. There was a 1:58:51.280 --> 1:58:54.520 movement some years ago, Yeahni probably, I'll remember when when 1:58:54.560 --> 1:58:58.080 all of a sudden, guys were discovering the efficacy of 1:58:58.200 --> 1:59:02.840 using fifty cal bmg ease is that the right word 1:59:02.840 --> 1:59:07.960 for it? And there was like YouTube channels, right, Yeah, 1:59:08.080 --> 1:59:10.120 I don't know if I qualified as a whole movement. 1:59:11.160 --> 1:59:14.040 There's like a thing, there's can can I say? Stirrings? 1:59:15.160 --> 1:59:19.160 There were some stirrings of guys realizing the incredible efficacy 1:59:20.440 --> 1:59:26.800 of the fifty cow round the elk um rigged up 1:59:26.800 --> 1:59:31.480 with big heavy, big heavy tag drivers with fifty cows 1:59:31.720 --> 1:59:33.240 and the fact that you could bowl an elk over 1:59:33.360 --> 1:59:38.360 nine yards or whatever. Right, so um, and some states 1:59:38.360 --> 1:59:41.080 came out and said, you can't do that. You can't 1:59:41.200 --> 1:59:44.600 use Uh, if a twelve gauge is effective on waterfall, 1:59:44.680 --> 1:59:46.600 imagine how effective a ten gage would be, or how 1:59:46.680 --> 1:59:48.600 effective an eight gauge. But you can't use eight gauges. 1:59:48.640 --> 1:59:52.920 You can't buy damn a gauge barely. So um, if 1:59:52.960 --> 1:59:55.600 it was just if if game management came down to 1:59:55.680 --> 1:59:59.360 what kills animals the cleanest, I think that we would 1:59:59.400 --> 2:00:04.360 welcome any in all technologies into the game. But the 2:00:04.400 --> 2:00:07.000 minute you enter any in all technologies into the game, 2:00:07.600 --> 2:00:11.520 efficacy goes up and participation will have to go down. 2:00:11.760 --> 2:00:14.120 If you have a population of let's say you got 2:00:14.160 --> 2:00:19.120 a population you got a hundred panda bears and someone's like, uh, no, 2:00:19.280 --> 2:00:22.160 koala bears. There's a hunter quala bears, And they're like, 2:00:22.200 --> 2:00:25.440 we can kill ten koala bears, and and then next 2:00:25.520 --> 2:00:28.640 year we'll have a hundred again because they'll reproduce, and 2:00:28.640 --> 2:00:30.400 you're only gonna really have a hunter because there's only 2:00:30.400 --> 2:00:33.280 so many eucalyptus trees. So we know that hunter koala 2:00:33.320 --> 2:00:35.520 bears is a great number. Every year we kill ten, 2:00:35.640 --> 2:00:37.520 next year magic we got a hundred. If we didn't 2:00:37.560 --> 2:00:39.760 kill any, we still have a hundred because that's just 2:00:40.120 --> 2:00:43.320 the carrying capacity of the landscape. And and if you 2:00:43.400 --> 2:00:45.800 had a way that a guy has a certainty of 2:00:45.880 --> 2:00:48.080 killing a koala bear, how many dudes get the hunt 2:00:48.120 --> 2:00:59.280 quali bears? One dude? No? Ten? Okay. Let's say let's 2:00:59.320 --> 2:01:04.800 say you say you can only use red riders and 2:01:04.880 --> 2:01:07.600 we find people shooting red riders only have about a 2:01:07.640 --> 2:01:11.240 ten percent success rate on koalas because they can soak 2:01:11.320 --> 2:01:15.120 up babies. Okay, how many dudes now get to go 2:01:15.280 --> 2:01:21.200 koala hunting? How many do you need? Is so that 2:01:21.440 --> 2:01:27.960 it's it's one right, one, They all get to go. 2:01:28.320 --> 2:01:31.600 But they're all out shooting red riders at koalas, and 2:01:31.640 --> 2:01:34.959 they're absorbing those babies and they're taking they're sucking up babies. 2:01:36.480 --> 2:01:40.960 That's wildlife management. That's a good point. That's a good 2:01:40.960 --> 2:01:44.720 note to end on. Yeah, that's good. I started doing 2:01:44.760 --> 2:01:49.920 everything as koala bears. I think that's what really worked 2:01:50.000 --> 2:01:53.880 was the koalas. Yeah you were um now you still lost, Chris. 2:01:55.440 --> 2:02:02.360 I was thinking about my concluding thought. In that case, 2:02:02.480 --> 2:02:07.280 please have you gotten through it? Yeah? In that case, please, 2:02:07.920 --> 2:02:11.160 Rich I would love to hear more than anything in 2:02:11.200 --> 2:02:13.640 the world, I would like to hear your concluding thought. 2:02:15.400 --> 2:02:19.440 It's not that deep, man, but I just liked I 2:02:19.520 --> 2:02:22.480 can't push your super again. No, No, that's that will 2:02:22.480 --> 2:02:26.200 get sold. I just like watching that out being out man. 2:02:26.640 --> 2:02:29.400 That was cool. There's a lot of people I know 2:02:29.480 --> 2:02:32.720 and hang out with it never ever get to see that. 2:02:32.600 --> 2:02:36.800 And that was cool see that thing getting all the yeah, 2:02:36.960 --> 2:02:40.800 kicking around, responding to the call, interacting. It was just 2:02:40.840 --> 2:02:44.560 really cool. Screwing it up will forever taint that. I 2:02:44.560 --> 2:02:46.960 almost wishing, you know now, like in hindsight, obviously, I 2:02:46.960 --> 2:02:49.240 wish you would just stayed at a hundred yards. Yeah, 2:02:49.600 --> 2:02:52.600 going about his business, caught our wind. I wish you 2:02:52.640 --> 2:02:57.120 had caught our wind. But the wind was in our face. Man, dude, 2:02:57.160 --> 2:02:59.480 it was a good wind day that whole We're going 2:02:59.520 --> 2:03:04.640 to run out of daylight. But yeah, Art, what's up. 2:03:04.960 --> 2:03:08.920 You have to come back. No, no, I have no, 2:03:09.000 --> 2:03:11.560 I have a I have a something to do before 2:03:11.560 --> 2:03:13.680 a concluder and then give you my thoughts on a concluderk. 2:03:13.680 --> 2:03:15.480 You a quick question, please? Why did your shirt say 2:03:15.520 --> 2:03:21.840 orange on it? I was a Syracuse orangeman. Huh tell 2:03:21.920 --> 2:03:29.120 you like the oranges? I do um first, thanks as 2:03:29.160 --> 2:03:31.320 always to uh take me out and get to run 2:03:31.400 --> 2:03:34.160 them up with you guys, I would say not to 2:03:34.200 --> 2:03:37.640 go into like my personal life. I have struggled a 2:03:37.680 --> 2:03:41.400 little bit post being in this league of extraordinary gentleman 2:03:41.440 --> 2:03:44.760 that was the military, to find folks not in the 2:03:44.800 --> 2:03:46.720 military and kind of beyond that part of my life 2:03:46.720 --> 2:03:49.480 that I really liked being around. And the media crew 2:03:49.560 --> 2:03:52.240 is that crew. You y'a need the rest of the 2:03:52.280 --> 2:03:53.800 rest of the gents here and everybody doing it. So 2:03:53.840 --> 2:03:56.680 I appreciate that greatly. Yeah. I even saw you get 2:03:56.960 --> 2:04:03.240 Ridge Pounder's phone number. Yeah, man, even though he's leaving correct, correct, 2:04:03.840 --> 2:04:09.400 So I appreciate that. The thing were the thing that 2:04:09.440 --> 2:04:10.680 I meant to get into, but we didn't. But we 2:04:10.720 --> 2:04:12.320 talked about it before and well, next time you come out, 2:04:12.320 --> 2:04:15.000 we'll talk about we're out of time now, is that? Uh, 2:04:15.200 --> 2:04:19.360 you're knowing the way you knew yourself and knowing that 2:04:19.400 --> 2:04:23.080 there would be a void. Yeah, being having like the 2:04:23.120 --> 2:04:25.480 self awareness to know that there would be less kind 2:04:25.520 --> 2:04:28.000 of void that was gonna get filled with something when 2:04:28.040 --> 2:04:30.800 you left the military, and that you sort of consciously, 2:04:31.240 --> 2:04:33.840 you know, and you grow outdoors and grow fishing, skiing, hiking, 2:04:34.160 --> 2:04:36.160 but you knew that. You're like, there's gonna be a void, 2:04:36.240 --> 2:04:39.360 and I'm gonna consciously fill that void with something that 2:04:39.400 --> 2:04:41.760 taps into some of that same stuff because I don't 2:04:41.800 --> 2:04:44.360 want it to be filled in the way that isn't 2:04:44.440 --> 2:04:47.320 under my control. And there's a whole lot of people 2:04:47.360 --> 2:04:50.520 filling voids with the wrong stuff from from our line 2:04:50.520 --> 2:04:52.520 of work. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, So it's good. So that's 2:04:52.840 --> 2:04:57.040 that's first. So thanks on concluders. There's almost nothing. Since 2:04:57.080 --> 2:04:59.400 I love literature probably more than anything. When it comes 2:04:59.400 --> 2:05:03.360 to stories, I love storytelling. Nothing makes me happier than 2:05:03.960 --> 2:05:07.880 a story well concluded, and almost nothing bothers me more 2:05:08.160 --> 2:05:11.280 than one that doesn't end well. You should meet our 2:05:11.320 --> 2:05:16.000 friend dirt myth. So it occurred to me when I've 2:05:16.000 --> 2:05:18.640 listened to your podcast, they get the concluders whenever next, 2:05:18.720 --> 2:05:20.320 I was gonna be hon it. This would be my answer, 2:05:20.360 --> 2:05:22.040 not like I prepped this and he made the way, 2:05:22.080 --> 2:05:24.720 but was that. I'm not going to give a concluder 2:05:25.240 --> 2:05:28.480 because I feel like this story is about these relationships, 2:05:28.480 --> 2:05:31.920 and I hope that story goes on for perpetuity. So 2:05:31.960 --> 2:05:33.400 I'm not going to close, even though I know that's 2:05:33.400 --> 2:05:35.760 a little esoteric, but I'm not. I'm not going to 2:05:35.800 --> 2:05:37.800 give a concluder because I don't want this story in. 2:05:38.240 --> 2:05:41.480 What makes a great concluder, is it it's well thought? Yeah, Seth, 2:05:45.400 --> 2:05:47.320 I love the sound of a pig ink in its head. 2:05:50.040 --> 2:05:53.960 That takes me back. It was. It was just cool 2:05:54.000 --> 2:05:58.760 hanging out with York hearing your stories. Man, that's awesome stories, 2:05:59.200 --> 2:06:01.560 good story the bummers, a lot of them. Can't leave 2:06:01.600 --> 2:06:05.040 the can't leave the woods. But I wish we had 2:06:05.080 --> 2:06:11.360 another week. Yep, that was fun. Yeah, this is Danny. 2:06:11.360 --> 2:06:15.160 I had a thoroughly entertaining, interesting week. I appreciate it. 2:06:15.160 --> 2:06:18.000 Thanks for bringing me onto this. If your footage turns 2:06:18.000 --> 2:06:19.880 out to be good, I hope you come back with us. Thanks. 2:06:19.880 --> 2:06:22.280 I appreciate that. Yeah, it's an interesting experience for sure. 2:06:22.320 --> 2:06:23.840 If the footage is no good, you'll never hear from 2:06:23.920 --> 2:06:29.040 us again. Sounds good. Second closer, I think it's more 2:06:29.040 --> 2:06:31.080 of a pro tip. The first half of my week, 2:06:31.120 --> 2:06:35.120 I would say it was fairly miserable because I came 2:06:35.120 --> 2:06:37.160 out here with the wrong foot wear. And every camera 2:06:37.160 --> 2:06:39.520 guy has like ten pairs of shoes that he travels 2:06:39.520 --> 2:06:42.720 with because you never know what, never need rubber boots 2:06:42.800 --> 2:06:45.320 or hiking boots, and so I brought a lot for it. 2:06:45.320 --> 2:06:46.920 And so the first one I tried for the first 2:06:46.920 --> 2:06:50.480 three days, put thirty miles on these things. Man, I 2:06:50.520 --> 2:06:53.200 thought my foot was gonna fall off, and it was 2:06:53.200 --> 2:06:56.520 a blister to look like a gunshot, really saying thing 2:06:56.560 --> 2:06:58.520 about it, because it didn't matter. I had to keep 2:06:58.560 --> 2:07:02.520 on walking. That earn you a lot of credit because 2:07:02.800 --> 2:07:05.320 not having never heard that the problem existed, and then 2:07:05.360 --> 2:07:07.080 seeing the problem and I was like the fact that 2:07:07.080 --> 2:07:13.920 he hasn't brought that up, Yeah, yeah, and pushed on 2:07:14.080 --> 2:07:15.960 my big tone ail one night when we were spiked 2:07:15.960 --> 2:07:18.480 out in a bunch of yellow pus came out of it. 2:07:18.600 --> 2:07:20.680 And then and that was aside from the blister on 2:07:20.680 --> 2:07:23.480 the back of my foot, the gun show, and so yeah, 2:07:23.560 --> 2:07:24.920 I guess to kind of book in it from the 2:07:24.920 --> 2:07:27.840 beginning of the conversation. I would have traded anything for 2:07:27.920 --> 2:07:32.440 a pair of flip flops that I was done the 2:07:32.480 --> 2:07:34.520 rest of the shooting flip flops, but I had a 2:07:34.600 --> 2:07:37.040 backup hair. So pro tip, don't go on to one 2:07:37.080 --> 2:07:39.680 of these things with a pair of boots so you 2:07:39.720 --> 2:07:47.840 haven't thoroughly walked in and bring your flips. Yeah, we've 2:07:47.840 --> 2:07:50.280 been playing to catch, so thank you for listening very much, 2:07:50.560 --> 2:08:12.040 and uh, we'll catch you next week.