1
00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:09,240
Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi, everyone,

2
00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,639
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about

3
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,759
Speaker 1: the choices we make, even as especially as our bodies

4
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: change and realign as we age. Today we're talking about

5
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,320
Speaker 1: midlife and menopause, but not the stuff you already know about,

6
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 1: not the stuff we've already talked about, hot flashes and

7
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,600
Speaker 1: mood swings, but a lot of the stuff we don't

8
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 1: talk about, like desire and pleasure, things that make us

9
00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,720
Speaker 1: quietly wonder is something wrong with me? Am I broken?

10
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,159
Speaker 1: My guest today is doctor Maria Sophocles, a gynecologist and

11
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 1: sexual medicine specialist who is on a mission to close

12
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: what he calls the bedroom gap, or the difference in

13
00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 1: sexual expectations and capabilities of men and women in mid life.

14
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,840
Speaker 1: Will you get a little uncomfortable perhaps? Will you have

15
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 1: a new way of thinking about your body? Yes, you will.

16
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,880
Speaker 1: Will you be confident that you are not broken? Absolutely?

17
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to welcome doctor Maria Sophocles. Hello, Hello there.

18
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,119
Speaker 1: First of all, I love the story of you meeting

19
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 1: Gloria Sinum in a coat closets I know, and how

20
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: did that explain to everyone how that encounter made it

21
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: impossible not to write this book.

22
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:38,480
Speaker 2: Sure, so I guess it was a book that needed

23
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,039
Speaker 2: to be written because I had been in Obiqun for

24
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 2: over twenty years and I was watching women age and

25
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 2: go into midlife and start having menopause issues and sexual issues,

26
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 2: and I kept trying to help them one on one,

27
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 2: and I just started thinking, I do have to scale this.

28
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 2: I need to get help out in a bigger, broader way.

29
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 2: And so I thought I'll write a book and then

30
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 2: maybe do a Ted talk. And I had written some

31
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 2: of the book and just shoved it on a shelf.

32
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 2: And then when I saw Gloria Steinem, Hillary Clinton, and

33
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 2: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the same night, and it was

34
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 2: like this, like sunlight was like streaming onto me, going,

35
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,119
Speaker 2: you better channel your inner like feminist goddess. But oh,

36
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 2: I have four kids and I'm busy, and I have

37
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 2: this huge practice and I don't think I have time

38
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 2: for anything. And then she was just so fiery and adamant.

39
00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 2: She didn't really ask me, she demanded it, and I thought,

40
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 2: this is a you know. We bumped into each other

41
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 2: to coke closet and she wanted to know who I

42
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,560
Speaker 2: was and what my deal was, and I told her

43
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 2: I was an obgi n, but that I really felt

44
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,239
Speaker 2: like there was this need for information for midlife women,

45
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 2: and especially around sex and the whole influence of the

46
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,800
Speaker 2: patriarchy and porn and pharma and politics and all this

47
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 2: shit just putting into our brain making us feel bad

48
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 2: for not being Instagram perfect. And she just looked at

49
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 2: me and like leveled a finger at me and was like,

50
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 2: you better write that damn book. And I've never had anyone, really,

51
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm a doctor. I'm used to being like people are

52
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,520
Speaker 2: respectful and everyone. She was like, you write it right now.

53
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,639
Speaker 2: And I realized she was saying it as part of

54
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,120
Speaker 2: the sort of continuum of feminism, saying we do not

55
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 2: have time to take our foot off the gas pedal.

56
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 2: We do not have time for any of this bullshit.

57
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 2: And until people start learning to care about themselves as women,

58
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 2: to value themselves as patients, as mothers, as sisters, as partners,

59
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 2: and to think about sex as something other than a

60
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 2: way to serve men, how are we going to ever

61
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 2: move forward? And the way she put it was so

62
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 2: sort of adamant, And you know, I said, good night,

63
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 2: and I thanked her, and I just thought, you know what,

64
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,320
Speaker 2: I've got to write this down and hopefully someone will

65
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 2: buy this book and read it. But in the meantime,

66
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 2: I was asked to do a Ted Talk, so that

67
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 2: was a way to at least get over a million

68
00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 2: people to start hearing what I felt was important. And

69
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 2: the family the people at TED were Adaman two. They said,

70
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 2: we get doctors all the time wanted to teach us

71
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 2: about heart disease and kidney disease. But they said, this

72
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,360
Speaker 2: message is universal. You know, if there's a billion midlife

73
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 2: women on the planet and maybe seventy percent of them

74
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 2: are suffering silently with sexual issues, that's seven hundred million

75
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 2: women that could hear this TED Talk.

76
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 1: That need to hear it.

77
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,919
Speaker 2: Say yeah, that could be me, and I'm too ashamed

78
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 2: to say anything. So I think when I did the

79
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,280
Speaker 2: Ted Talk is when I really said, shoot, I better

80
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 2: finish that book, you know. So then I just just

81
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 2: dug in in Princeton. There's a beautiful library, Jenny, and

82
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 2: I just dug in for a year and just went

83
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 2: there and wrote it. And you have it. I'm so

84
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 2: happy you have the book.

85
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I've got to go back

86
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 1: because there's so many things I need to listen to

87
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,120
Speaker 1: relearn and honestly just based on my upbringing and where

88
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: I am in my life. But explain to us to start,

89
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 1: what is the bedroom gap.

90
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a term that I coin to encapsulate the

91
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 2: difference in expectations and abilities between partners in a bedroom,

92
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 2: mostly between men and women, but it could be between

93
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,720
Speaker 2: same sex couples. And it has to do with the

94
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,440
Speaker 2: fact that there are so many forces that play on

95
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 2: how we as women show up in a bedroom. Whether

96
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 2: it's Catholic school. Nothing against Catholic school, but whether it's

97
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,359
Speaker 2: the lessons you learn in Sunday school or at home,

98
00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,360
Speaker 2: or in your sex ed class in eighth grade where

99
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 2: they basically just say, don't ever have sex. You know

100
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 2: you'll get pregnant or you'll get STDs, where it's all

101
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,280
Speaker 2: fear based and they urge you to really not have sex.

102
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,839
Speaker 2: And that just doesn't work for teens. So we kind

103
00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 2: of start our sexual career like confused, like what should

104
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,360
Speaker 2: we be? And then the difference between how men women

105
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 2: are thought of as sexual beings, how men are considered

106
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 2: it's okay, to masturbate from cradle to grave. It's okay

107
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,719
Speaker 2: to be sexual. It's really cool to be an alpha

108
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 2: man and judge yourself by your sexual conquest. But women

109
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 2: are just supposed to know how to be good in bed,

110
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 2: but really supposed to be chased somehow. And all the

111
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 2: mixed messages in Hollywood, which I'm sure you were exposed

112
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,240
Speaker 2: to at a young age of who am I supposed

113
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 2: to be?

114
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: Me?

115
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 2: Someone popular, someone slutty, someone chased? Right, look at all

116
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,279
Speaker 2: those crazy messages. And I remember Brick Shields telling me

117
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 2: she was sixteen and she walked in to do a

118
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 2: photo shoot and the photographer just said, oh my god,

119
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,719
Speaker 2: your thighs are just so heavy. What am I going

120
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,279
Speaker 2: to do with that? And as a sixteen year old,

121
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,960
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, now you're already imperfect. And she was

122
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 2: pretty darn not imperfect, you know, right, and right, brock Shields,

123
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,919
Speaker 2: Brookshields is already freaking out. You know, what chance do

124
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 2: I have? Right? And so the bedroom gap explains how

125
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,159
Speaker 2: women come into a bedroom either worried about their mole

126
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,840
Speaker 2: or their fat or their rash, or they don't look

127
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 2: great in their neglige or whatever. They worry that they're

128
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 2: supposed to have an orgasm every time that they're supposed

129
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,440
Speaker 2: to orgasm from penis and vagina sex. So I wanted

130
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,560
Speaker 2: to call bullshit on some of that and say, you know,

131
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 2: only about twenty percent of women actually orgasm from penis

132
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: and vagina sex routinely. Most of us need literal stimulation,

133
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 2: and could we please undo some of the crazy myths

134
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:34,800
Speaker 2: and images that Hollywood and porn absolutely necessary and so

135
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 2: making us all feel lucky. And then when we get

136
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 2: to midlife and we're menopausal, we don't have the estrogen

137
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 2: down there that we used to guess what that can

138
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,920
Speaker 2: really make for changes both in our brain and libido

139
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 2: and in sexual pleasure, in orgasm, And so I just

140
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 2: felt like women don't hear that in a doctor's office,

141
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 2: And I was almost embarrassed for my own profession, like

142
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 2: we don't train doctors to talk about sex, even obgn's

143
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 2: no training.

144
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 1: Now true, I read that in your book you said

145
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 1: that you were a part of the Menopause and Sexual

146
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: Health Uninformed Clinical clips. Yeah, eight years of training to

147
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 1: become an OBGYN and never learned anything about menopause or

148
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 1: sexual dysfunction.

149
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,880
Speaker 2: I trained at a super world famous place, and I

150
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 2: came out of there thinking I am a great surgeon.

151
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm great at delivering babies. And I didn't realize how

152
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 2: clueless I was until my patients would come in saying

153
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 2: I have palpitations, i have neuropathy, I'm losing my hair,

154
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm getting teary all the time. And I was like,

155
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 2: I guess she needs a neurologist, a psychiatrist, a cardiologist.

156
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 2: That's how bad a job I was doing. But it

157
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,040
Speaker 2: turns out I just needed to learn menopause. And one

158
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 2: of my missions is that we really revamp medical schools

159
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 2: so that all clinicians can look at a woman with

160
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 2: palpitations and say, hey, you're fifty three, are you on estrogen?

161
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,640
Speaker 2: Because it could be it's maybe not anxiety, You're maybe

162
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 2: not just a hysterical woman.

163
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seems crazy. It seems we get

164
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 1: dismissed a lot that opqians weren't taught about this.

165
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you're obiguian isn't know, you can be

166
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 2: sure your cardiologist doesn't know, and your endogrenologist doesn't know.

167
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 2: And so women are turning to the internet and influencers,

168
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 2: and some of that is okay. Because they're learning, but

169
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,319
Speaker 2: some of it. Of course, there's snake oil out there,

170
00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 2: you know, by this supplement and everything will be cured.

171
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 2: So I do think too. Remember we still have a

172
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,559
Speaker 2: fear of estrogen from this twenty three year old bad study.

173
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,720
Speaker 2: We have to unhook that too and help women understand

174
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,480
Speaker 2: that most all of us are candidates after menopause to

175
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 2: take estrogen to preserve our bone, our heart, our brain,

176
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,800
Speaker 2: and to use local vaginal estrogen, which literally every woman

177
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 2: on the planet is a candidate for. There is no

178
00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,360
Speaker 2: one that it's contraindicated for, and that there's zero risk

179
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,840
Speaker 2: of cancer with that. This is typical topical. It goes

180
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 2: in the vagina, although some people, even someone on this podcast,

181
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 2: puts it on her face because we do have.

182
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 1: Two people on this party too.

183
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,959
Speaker 2: Because we know there are receptors in our skin and

184
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 2: just nobody wants more wrinkles than they have to. Yeah,

185
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,760
Speaker 2: vaginal estrogen. I think the government should mail it to

186
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,720
Speaker 2: all women when they turn forty eight, for like twenty

187
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,280
Speaker 2: straight years, free of charge.

188
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 1: I love your ambition there, but yeah, I don't see

189
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:32,679
Speaker 1: that happening.

190
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,839
Speaker 2: I know I'm not holding my breath and I'm out

191
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 2: running and I would never get elected on that platform.

192
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,840
Speaker 2: But in some fantasy world it's so darn save and

193
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 2: guess what it even prevents UTIs as we get older,

194
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,079
Speaker 2: so there's real health benefits. It's not just a sex thing.

195
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,079
Speaker 2: It's really I really.

196
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: Just talk for a second about how historically women's pleasure

197
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,959
Speaker 1: has been framed as a secondary need want.

198
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,400
Speaker 2: For sure, for sure, historically literally going back four thousand years.

199
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,839
Speaker 2: In the book, we look at how you know, women

200
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 2: were property, so as property, of course their pleasure was

201
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,079
Speaker 2: totally irrelevant, and that lasted for almost all of recorded history.

202
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 2: I would say we had a little blip of interest

203
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,640
Speaker 2: in maybe the sixties when we got the birth control

204
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 2: pill and we were liberated. But even today, Jenny, my

205
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 2: practice has women from all over the world, and I

206
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 2: mean their celebrities and CEOs and PhDs and olympians like

207
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 2: I have some pretty amazing, badass women as patients, and

208
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,840
Speaker 2: yet in the exam room they confess to me, Oh,

209
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 2: my pleasure isn't what I'm here for. I want him

210
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 2: to be able to have sex, so you just have

211
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 2: to help me have libido so I can get my

212
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 2: mojo up, so his needs are met and I'm like,

213
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,680
Speaker 2: wait a minute, You're running a billion dollar empire and

214
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,079
Speaker 2: you have ten thousand employees, and yet in the bedroom,

215
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,080
Speaker 2: you're like, it's not about me. And I just would

216
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,720
Speaker 2: love women to say, what if sex could be about

217
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 2: mutual pleasure because your partner wants that too. Really, So

218
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 2: more women are starting to understand that vibrator sales are up,

219
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,080
Speaker 2: but partly that's because women are designing vibrators now that

220
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 2: aren't just little plastic rubber penises. You know, they look

221
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 2: they look like something you could keep in your shower

222
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,320
Speaker 2: and no one would know what it was. And so

223
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 2: I think we're having a little bit of a revolution

224
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,320
Speaker 2: now where it's coming out of the closet. I think

225
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: other countries do it better. You know, in Holland they

226
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,800
Speaker 2: teach sex ed as something for mutual pleasure. So even

227
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 2: Dutch teens when they first have sex, use more contraception,

228
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 2: wait longer, and focus on pleasure for both. Like that's

229
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 2: so easy.

230
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's just education. I know, it's knowledge.

231
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 2: So that's also in the book. My other small little

232
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 2: wish is to revamped sex said, you know, so that

233
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 2: teens don't get taught don't have sex or you'll get

234
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 2: pregnant or die.

235
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, those statistics in your book were bananas about how

236
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,280
Speaker 1: many states you know, teach certain things, and it's.

237
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 2: All different abstinence, religion based, learn it at home. It

238
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,280
Speaker 2: sounds lovely, but in general those are states with the

239
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 2: highest teen pregnancy rates and the unwanted pregnancy rates. So

240
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 2: we're not doing anybody as service by that, And I

241
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 2: think it's not Teaching about sexual pleasure is not going

242
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 2: to make teens run out and have unprotected sex. Teaching

243
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 2: teens about pleasure makes them good, responsible adults for the

244
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,319
Speaker 2: next seventy years of their life, and that gives them

245
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 2: better relationships so that when they have a rectile dysfunction

246
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 2: or vaginal dryness, they know how to talk about it.

247
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 2: They say, Hey, let's work on a different script, let's

248
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:54,600
Speaker 2: reinvent this.

249
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,959
Speaker 1: So true because the script that I was, that I

250
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 1: was given and read and leaved and so much goes

251
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: to the point that you speak about in your book.

252
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 1: You say, speaking your mind, speaking up for your needs,

253
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,720
Speaker 1: speaking out for your rights. Heck, speaking at all was

254
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 1: not modeled either in Disney animation or mainstream live action Hollywood.

255
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: And you nailed it. Because my first learnings about love

256
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 1: and desire and what makes me desirable were shaped solely

257
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 1: from Cinderella and snow White's kiss, all of those things

258
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 1: that are complete bs. I thought, okay, well then I'll

259
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: just wait here for the prince to come and make

260
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: everything okay.

261
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 2: And it impacts how we are as young women. And

262
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 2: it's why when you look at orgasms with hookup culture,

263
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 2: there's a huge orgasm gap. Men orgasm much more than

264
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 2: women in their twenties and thirties because the women are

265
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 2: still trying to please. And you say, cool, he got

266
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 2: with me. I'm so psyched, you know, I'm so lucky

267
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 2: to have gotten with him. And it's only I think

268
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 2: in our forties and fift she's that we sort of

269
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 2: take a breath and go, wait a minute, couldn't there

270
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 2: be something for me? Is there's something for me out there?

271
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 2: And you know, so women's corn of split in two groups.

272
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 2: The oh god, forget it, it's too late, there's nothing

273
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 2: for me and now I'm getting older, or the no,

274
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 2: I think, I think I'd like to see what's out there,

275
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 2: and whether that's internet dating because they're divorced or single

276
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 2: or widowed, or it's just learning about their bodies. You know,

277
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,200
Speaker 2: it's never too late, never too late to do that.

278
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 1: My teenage daughter, who I you know, watched as she

279
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 1: went through high school. The things that she would tell

280
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 1: me and the things that she thought were true blew

281
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 1: my mind. And just the whole, the whole narrative behind

282
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 1: what you just said a minute ago, about you know,

283
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: hooking up or giving him what he wants so that

284
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 1: you'll be something that's desirable or you know, talked about positively.

285
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 1: It's so upsetting, I know.

286
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 2: And yet you need almost the maturity of time to

287
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 2: look backwards and go, you are better than him. You

288
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 2: do not need to feel it's an honor that you

289
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 2: had sex with him or got with him. It's like

290
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 2: he got pleasure and he didn't even care about you,

291
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah.

292
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean I try to tell my girls it's the opposite,

293
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 1: like you know, because just to try to counterbalance it.

294
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 1: But I don't think it works until the person is

295
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 1: ready to understand it in a different way. How do

296
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 1: we break this messaging from our brains? Though?

297
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 2: I think it's about valuing ourselves younger, and it's about

298
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 2: I think revamping sex d so that it's not fear

299
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 2: based it's pleasure based. I mean, you can always teach

300
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 2: about disease and pregnancy, that's smart, but that each gender,

301
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 2: whatever gender you identify as, it's irrelevant, you know, and

302
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 2: whether you're straight, gay, trans, that pleasure is something you

303
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 2: should be aware of for yourself. How do you give

304
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 2: it to yourself? How do you experience it on yourself

305
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 2: or from others? And to be comfortable talking about it.

306
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 2: I had a gay friend who said to me, said,

307
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,560
Speaker 2: you know, the gay community does this way better than

308
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 2: the straight community. We ask each other very openly, like

309
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 2: what do you like? And straight people don't do that.

310
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 2: They sort of assume each other already knows and sort

311
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: of come together and do it.

312
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 1: They play their roles.

313
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 2: The play their roles, and I think those roles really

314
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 2: fail us when we get older. When you know, I'll

315
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 2: share a story of an eighty two year old patient

316
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,719
Speaker 2: of mine. She's been my patient almost twenty years. I

317
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,880
Speaker 2: thought I knew her really well, but it turned out

318
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,360
Speaker 2: she was keeping a secret from me. And she came

319
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: in the other day and said, I want you to

320
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,359
Speaker 2: know that I've been married for sixty two years. And

321
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I know you have. She said, I've

322
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 2: never experienced sexual pleasure ever, and my husband has no

323
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,240
Speaker 2: idea how to please me. And I know I want

324
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 2: it before I die, and I want to have it

325
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 2: before I Can you teach me how to get And

326
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,000
Speaker 2: she said, I see all your toys, because I have

327
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,400
Speaker 2: beautiful cabinets of sex toys in my office that I use.

328
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 2: And of course I was guilty of having never even

329
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 2: asked her about it, which was my own bad. And

330
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 2: we shopped. We went shopping and we found something for

331
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 2: her and she came, I didn't. I said, I'll see

332
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 2: you in a few months. She came in like three

333
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,439
Speaker 2: weeks later. She said, I have some news for you.

334
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 2: She said, I love the toy. I had an orgasm.

335
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,480
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I just wanted you to know.

336
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 2: And she said, I'm never going to tell my husband

337
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 2: what I'm about to tell you. But I've had a

338
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 2: really close male friend my whole life and he's widowed.

339
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 2: And I went over to his home and we had

340
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 2: the most wonderful intimate relationship and he was so caring

341
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 2: and loving, and I experienced sexual pleasure from a man

342
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,160
Speaker 2: for the first time, Like I almost cried in front

343
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 2: of her. Jinny, Yeah, and I stay married. My husband

344
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with that, but I didn't want

345
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 2: to die without experiencing that, and I just thought, good

346
00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 2: for her.

347
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 1: I mean, it's never too late. Poster child right there.

348
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 2: She is my poster child. So when women come in

349
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 2: and they're like, I don't know, I guess I just

350
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 2: give up. It's like, why why you know? We have

351
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 2: FDA approved medications for low libido? Right. But to be honest,

352
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 2: the best thing you can do if you don't have

353
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 2: desire is, first of all, look make sure you're healthy.

354
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 2: Make sure you don't have a thyroid issue or something

355
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 2: like that, or depression, and your doctor can help you

356
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 2: with that. And then look at your relationship. Are there

357
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 2: things that are keeping you from desiring that person and

358
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 2: affair someone's mother moving in, you know, money problems, loss

359
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: of job, all kinds of things, stressors. If those aren't

360
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 2: the case, then I would say, you know, make sure

361
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 2: you're healthy down there. And then also communicate. The book

362
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,360
Speaker 2: helps you try to figure out how to have that

363
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 2: first awkward talk.

364
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: Yes, you say, something that I love so much about

365
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 1: communication is lubrication.

366
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 2: That's right, it's a version. Right. If you can just

367
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 2: begin to talk about sex as easily as we talk

368
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 2: about paying bills or a calculus grade, or how much

369
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 2: your sister bothers me, or you know, the million things

370
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: we talk about in a long term relationship, and yet

371
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 2: we don't talk about sex as something. Look, we talk

372
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 2: about taxes, right, How boring is that? Yeah? No, thanks right,

373
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 2: Well I don't, but my thank god my husband talked

374
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 2: to himself about them. But what if every quarter we

375
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 2: had a date that included a little check in, just

376
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: like and in a positive way, not a judgmental way.

377
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 2: Like Jenny, I loved it that when we went away

378
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 2: to the mountains a month ago, we did a long

379
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: walk and then had a hot tub and then you

380
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: gave me a massage. I know you think that was

381
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 2: no big deal. I absolutely loved it. That gives you

382
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,239
Speaker 2: positive feelings about what you did, and you know that

383
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 2: made me feel really good. And eventually you even say

384
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 2: things like, you know, I actually get really turned on

385
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: when you do the dishes or whatever.

386
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's actually true.

387
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know about a million women have told me

388
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 2: that that's not my line. I have a really cute

389
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 2: cartoon to send you of a man holding like all

390
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 2: kinds of cleaning supplies and the woman's in bed, and

391
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 2: he goes, don't any of your fantasies have to do

392
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 2: with anything other than me cleaning? So, you know, but

393
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: the more we say it out loud, the more that

394
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,239
Speaker 2: person gets positive feedback and says, I'm going to give

395
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 2: Jenny another massage. Actually, I'm going to give her a

396
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: gift certificate for her massage. Actually I'm going to give

397
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: her a massage and take her away for the weekend.

398
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: You know. It's all positive.

399
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 1: Feedback, positive reinforcing.

400
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and novelty is good too, Jenny. That's another thing

401
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: that people forget. They've been married for so long. They

402
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: get into this routine, and as delicious as cheerios are,

403
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 2: it's really good to get some new cereal in your

404
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 2: cupboard sometimes I mean not sexually, that it's okay to

405
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 2: change things up. Your partner will be kind of jazzed.

406
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 2: Mostly they'll be like, whoa, what are you watching?

407
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: What's going on?

408
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: And you can be like, oh, I wish I could

409
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 2: tell you, but just know that it's good. You know. Anyway,

410
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 2: I think novelty the brain loves that dopamine hit of novelty,

411
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: and none of us need any more dopamine. Hits from

412
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 2: social media, so try to get some in the bedroom

413
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 2: and or even put that on your quarterly check in,

414
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: like what, like, do you have any fantasies? Because I

415
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: know you told me about that woman the cheerleader ten

416
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: years ago, but you know, I'm a little like, I'm

417
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: not sure that's dubbing it for me? Is there anything else?

418
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: You know, Like it's okay to be a little don't

419
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: have to do everything, but it's kind of nice to

420
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 2: let your partner feel not ashamed to share that kind

421
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 2: of stuff.

422
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 1: It's important, it's really important.

423
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: And men are afraid of being judged. They are worried

424
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 2: about being judged or.

425
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a reaction that could be unpleasant.

426
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: They're very afraid of being told they're not good in

427
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: the bedroom, so you have to couch. You never want

428
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: to point a finger and be like you're not good

429
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: at this. You always want to frame it as I

430
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: really love it when and I almost wish we could

431
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: do more of that, or even a little differently, like

432
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 2: you have to make it into a soft compliment that

433
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: also implies I'd love to build on that, right, because

434
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 2: they're terrified that you're gonna be outing them as mediocre.

435
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: Or something, you know.

436
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 1: Right, God forbid?

437
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: I know.

438
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into it, because it's said that sex, desire,

439
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: and pleasure are missing in the menopause conversation until right now.

440
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the orgasm and desire gap. Desire

441
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: doesn't disappear, it changes. What does that mean?

442
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 2: Well, look, for some people, they come in and say zero,

443
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: They use the word zero, they say I have zero desire.

444
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: I want it.

445
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 2: I would just as soon watch the Late Show scroll

446
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: through photos. I'd rather watch puppy videos like it's that bad,

447
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: right yea? And I hear that all day long. So

448
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: I don't want you to think it doesn't. It sort

449
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: of does disappear. But I think it's that we change

450
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: and we well, our lives get frankly more complex. We

451
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 2: are this Sandwich generation. Sometimes older parents are an issue.

452
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: Jobs become we're at the peak of our career, so

453
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: they become a bigger issue. Kids as they get older,

454
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 2: as you know, just have different problems, not smaller problems.

455
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: Rect politics, current events. Man, I'm not even going there,

456
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: because you know, that's that's its own loss of desire,

457
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: like desire to engage with the news. And I think

458
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: that we become almost partners in life rather than sexual

459
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: attraction objects. And so somehow we have to re engage

460
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 2: and remember that this long term partner with someone that

461
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: at one point we were just really physically attracted to.

462
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 2: That gets hard when people lose their hair and get

463
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: menopause bellies and cellulate or wrinkles. It does, but it doesn't.

464
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: I mean, if you still are attracted to that human being,

465
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: you really can still be attracted to them sexually too. Now,

466
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: our estrogen and testosterone does drop in menopause, there's no

467
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 2: question they overary stop making it. And there's no question

468
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: that hormonal plummet affects both sexes. Men's testosterone is dropping too, remember,

469
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: and so sometimes I do give women topical testosterone as

470
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: a libido booster or even injections. Does it help? Yes?

471
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: Is it a magic bullet that The New York Times

472
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: makes it out to be? Not really, because I think

473
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,239
Speaker 2: desire is multifocal, and for women it's contextual. You know,

474
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: more men have something called spontaneous desire. They're standing in

475
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: line at the market, there's a super hot woman in

476
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: front of them, and they're like looking at her like

477
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: and they're thinking, I would love to have sex. I

478
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: don't even care with who. I would just love to

479
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: have sex. For women, they need context and they have

480
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: what's called receptive desire, which means you can star kissing

481
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: your partner and you kind of get a little aroused

482
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: as you're kissing, and once you're aroused, desire sneaks in

483
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: through the back door. So the good news is you

484
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: don't have to have baseline desire and walk around with

485
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: that every day to have a fulfilling sex life. That

486
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 2: you can get it after arousal. Does that make sense?

487
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: Yes? I love that part of your book about you

488
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: can get you can have desire after arousal. Yeah, they're

489
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: not se.

490
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be that writer, and many women

491
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: identify with that. You know. Sometimes it's a love language.

492
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: Some women love when their husband do active service, you know,

493
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: like the cleaning thing. Or Oh, my husband brings me

494
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: coffee every morning and I'm just so appreciative and he

495
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: always puts a rose next to it. We have sex

496
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: in the morning. That's not me, I'm just giving an example.

497
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: But the point is for that woman, it's contextual, and

498
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 2: yet that coffee and that little sweet touch of the

499
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 2: rose does something in her that makes her feel cared

500
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: for and loved and supported, and that morphs in her

501
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: into an attraction. And then when you add kissing and

502
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: cuddling and nuzzling and the speeling of skin against skin,

503
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: it's enough. It's enough.

504
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know for me, the word intimacy is often misunderstood,

505
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: and you know, it's been one of the things that

506
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: I need more of, quite honestly, like intimacy on a

507
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: non sexual level, which could then eventually, as you say,

508
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: turn into a sexual level.

509
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to, right, don't have to.

510
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: I think that's more important for women than men. Is

511
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: that fair to thing?

512
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: It is? But I'll give you something a hint because

513
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: I do a lot of speaking about longevity and long

514
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 2: term health optimization, and believe it or not, when couples

515
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: maintain intimacy long after they're in their sexual prime, but

516
00:27:53,200 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: they still have intimacy, those couples have lower rates of depression, anxiety, lonelyiness,

517
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: lower blood pressure, They have real health benefits in old age.

518
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 2: So there's actually also a mental health and physical health

519
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 2: benefit to sex in older life, but it's specifically around intimacy.

520
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: So you hit the nail on the head for the

521
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: most important word in the sexual health world in terms

522
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 2: of bang for buck for overall health and happiness. You

523
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: just you nailed it, mic Drop Yep, yep, yep.

524
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: That's how it feels for me at least.

525
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: Well, it's very common, Jenny, and it's also what a

526
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: lot of women wish their partners knew, but they don't

527
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: know how to tell them.

528
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm not seeking for myself exactly, but oftentimes you can

529
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: tell someone what you need and they're just not equipped,

530
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: or they don't know how, or they have never learned

531
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: how to deliver.

532
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: I know, and to be honest, my book's cover is

533
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: very sweet. It's a bed split in half and there's

534
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: little roses sewing it together because it's people like you

535
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: and I that I hope read it and learn how

536
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: to mend this bedroom gap. But if you want to

537
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,239
Speaker 2: know the truth, I really want our partners to read it.

538
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: I really want the men to read it so they

539
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: can come to women and go I think we should

540
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: talk about this whole thing, because I didn't realize, like,

541
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: you're okay if we just cuddle, and I'm not always

542
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: okay if we just cuddle, but I am sometimes, and

543
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: then that's how you negotiate.

544
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things I thought of when

545
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: I was reading, is like, I want my husband to

546
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: read this, because when I was reading and I thought, oh,

547
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: I need to talk. We need to talk more about this.

548
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: And in order for us to have a conversation about it,

549
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: I think it's important that your partner kind of has

550
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: the information too.

551
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: That's right. It's not fair to them to make them guess.

552
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: You know that famous line of like what women want

553
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: it's the big mystery. Well, it's a mystery if no

554
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: one talks. But if, and especially if you can get

555
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: by directional communication and ask him what he likes or

556
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: does he have a fantasy, or does he ever wish

557
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: you could have sex in the morning instead of at

558
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: night because he's talked whatever. You know, men have their

559
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: own pressures. They're not just the bad guys that always

560
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: want sex. They have their own pressures to be something.

561
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: A lot going on in their heads too, they do.

562
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know, maybe we need a second edition

563
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: of the book with a male cover, right, so.

564
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: Sex doesn't have to look the same as it's always looked.

565
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: And orgasm. You mentioned the orgasm gap. The orgasm GAP's real.

566
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: There are five different orgasm gaps, and they have to

567
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: do often with you know, we know, for example, that

568
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: the biggest orgasm gap is heterosexual couples. In fact, once

569
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: you put a penis in the room, the rate of

570
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: female orgasm drops a lot, which kind of sucks for

571
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: those of us in heterosexual relationships. But I would really

572
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: argue a lot about what we're saying that if we

573
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: take orgasm as the goal away and just focus on

574
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: a pleasurable experience for everyone, it takes a lot of

575
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: the pressure off of the men to have to get

576
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: hurt orgasm, the women to have to keep doing whatever

577
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: they need to do till he orgasms, and then they

578
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: can go to sleep, all these sort of memes, if

579
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: you will, sexual tropes, and it allows just pleasure for

580
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: pleasure's sake. And I think when couples can take the

581
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: predictability out that that really helps and it helps orgasm

582
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: happen in a very natural way, and then when it

583
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: does happen, it's wonderful, and when it doesn't that when

584
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: it doesn't that's also okay. So I would hope people

585
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: could read that chapter and come away saying, Okay, what

586
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: if I didn't put all that pressure on it. What

587
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: if there wasn't this goal, What if just the sex

588
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: could be for a pleasure itself.

589
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about why pleasure matters for relationships

590
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: but also for our self esteem, which I think is

591
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: really important. It kind of goes with the whole philosophy

592
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: behind this podcast, which is choosing yourself, choosing pleasure for yourself.

593
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: How about that, right?

594
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: And why do women think that's selfish?

595
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: Well, because that's how we're trained, how it's been since

596
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: the beginning of time.

597
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 2: I know, And that's why I did the whole history throwback.

598
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: It was like, my gosh, we've been fed this for

599
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: so many generations. It's like our brains come out of

600
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: the womb wired that way. Why to apologize for everything?

601
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: Wired to put ourself second, third, fourth, seventh. And I

602
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: write about my mom and how she just always felt

603
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: like she couldn't eat meal, the meal till we were

604
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: all finished or whatever. And the term guilty pleasures, Why

605
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: are guilty pleasures of female thing?

606
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: Why is that even in the same sentence exactly? And pleasure?

607
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: And why do you other than why do I not

608
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 2: know any men who are like I'm going to watch

609
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: a football game on TV? It's a guilty pleasure. They're

610
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: just like, I'm going to watch it.

611
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm doing exactly.

612
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: So we could definitely use some rewiring. And I hope

613
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: that books like this will help women feel a little

614
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: empowered and a little like they're not normal for wanting

615
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: to just you know, have the best life they can

616
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: because we're living longer, so it's crazy to think like

617
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: a menopausal I guess that's it. You know, we live

618
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: a third of our lives after menopause, so as well enjoyed.

619
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: I read that statistic to my girls in the room

620
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: earlier today about the you know, our age expectancy. Yeah,

621
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: and how relevant that is and how much it has changed.

622
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: But talk to me about the importance of viagra and

623
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: the gender divide, because this is the hot subject for me.

624
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: Well, the original title of the book was Viaggravation because

625
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: I started wanting to write it to show women that

626
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: it's not your fault if you don't keep up with him,

627
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: because he's now on viagra and you've gone from having

628
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: sex usually once a week to now he wants it

629
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: four or five times a week, and you're fifty eight

630
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: and exhausted and running four careers and three kids, and

631
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: you're still in charge of throwing out the carrots and

632
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: the refrigerator that get soggy, you know, like all those

633
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: women things that meant some things, and you just want

634
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: to crawl in bed and go to sleep. And so

635
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: viagra may it widened the bedroom gap because instead of

636
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: aging in parallel, because we know couples in their thirties

637
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: have sex x times a year, and their forties a

638
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 2: little less, fifties a little less, sixties, a little less,

639
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: seventies a little less. That's just normal, that's okay, And

640
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: actually people keep having sex, so it's great. But when

641
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: you get a fifty to sixty year old man, because

642
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: that's the peak infidelity decade, and you give him viagra

643
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: and his wife rejects him, and because she's having vaginal

644
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: dryness or she's tired or whatever, you're setting yourself up

645
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 2: for marital problems or relationship problems or possibly infidelity. And

646
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: I'm not saying viagra leads to infidelity or I'm but

647
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: it certainly makes the playing field uneven. And we have

648
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: not done a good job in medical research and pharma

649
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: at researching women's diseases. Take making women seriously doing women's

650
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: specific product development, not nearly enough. Only seven percent of

651
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: the whole NIH budget goes to women and children lump together.

652
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 2: You know what, we're fifty percent of population.

653
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: That's brain rattling.

654
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: I don't under forty seven billion dollars and only two

655
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: percent of that goes to women only disease research Like

656
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 2: that's so insulting. Insulting is certainly one word. It's it's

657
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: flagrant hard to hear. Well, I don't know that that's

658
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: going to change like this year, you know. I mean,

659
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: we would need a really big turnaround of thinking, you know,

660
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: to change it. We're getting little bits.

661
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: We're getting little bits finally, but it was just never

662
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: talked about before this whole movement. In the last few years,

663
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: I would say, of making my mainstream conversation we taught.

664
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: We started by talking about depression more openly, which was

665
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: so freeing and helpful for so many people. Yeah, these

666
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: conversations are so necessary too. I think the whole viagra

667
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: thing sort of even further shifted the expectations or the

668
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: mindset to performance, yes, being more important than pleasure.

669
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: That's right. It did us a true disservice. And then

670
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: what happened was Pfizer launched it for men with a

671
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: rectile dysfunction. Great, a true disease, and it was it

672
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: happened to be the same time we were allowed to

673
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: start doing TV ads, so they put all the TV

674
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 2: ads on with Bob Dole have the courage to go

675
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: to your doctor, and men did it. So suddenly there

676
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: were millions of prescriptions out there. And then Pfizer said, gee,

677
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: why don't we just see if like every man on

678
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 2: the planet wants it, and then we make more money,

679
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: which was brilliant. And the problem is that meant it

680
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: became you didn't have to go to your doctor and

681
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: go I'm really ashamed I have a rectile dysfunction. You

682
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: could just say I want it, and so more and

683
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: more men got it.

684
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: Not only that I want it, and I also like

685
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: it to be covered by my insurance.

686
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, that's what we call the

687
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: pink tax. If it's for women, we up the price

688
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: and make it not covered. So I know. And remember,

689
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: testosterone is FDA approved for men but not for women.

690
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: Even though both genders make it, both genders lose it,

691
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: and both genders need it. But we've genderized our hormones

692
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: so even at the FDA, they think of testosterone as

693
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: a male thing, even though we benefit from it. So

694
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: do not hesitate to say to a doctor, I have fatigue,

695
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: I have low energy, my libido is gone. I'd love

696
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: you to test my testosterone level because I'm pretty sure

697
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: it's going to be close to zero. And I'd like

698
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: you to help me with that and help me. And

699
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: I understand it has to be compounded, but I accept that.

700
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: I really, you know, in sixty bucks it lasts for

701
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 2: three months, I'd really like to spend that money. And

702
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 2: for many women, it's really a lovely, like just nudge.

703
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: It's not mind blowing, but it's really a lovely nudge

704
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: forward and we deserve that.

705
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: I want to talk really quickly about GSM. I won't

706
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: even attempt to say the oh.

707
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: It's so long genito urinary syndrome. Why do we have

708
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: to have a syndrome by the way of menopause?

709
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: Like the whole thing, this whole conversation is actually infuriating me,

710
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: which I hate to do to our listeners, but maybe

711
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: it's necessary. We need to get a little angry about

712
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: what has happened to women in our healthcare systems and

713
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: I think that that's what's finally happening with so many women,

714
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: thank god.

715
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: Well it's what's making them demand some answers and some information. So,

716
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 2: I mean, women go on my Instagram all the time,

717
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: Maria Sophocle's MD, and they're like, I don't know what

718
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: this is. I mean, they they're angry. They ask really

719
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,479
Speaker 2: basic questions because they were dismissed. Their doctor says, look,

720
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: you had cancer, I got rid of it all good,

721
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: you know. Or you at high blood pressure. I'm here

722
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: to fix that. That's enough, you know. And it's like, yeah,

723
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: but I can't have sex. Why is that not okay?

724
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: Why is that okay? You know? So GSM is the

725
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: medical term for what happens to our vulva and vagina

726
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: and bladder when we lose estrogen. And the best fifteen

727
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 2: second video to see was created for me for my

728
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: Ted Talk. So if people google ted talk marinosoftly, you'll

729
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: see this beautiful animation of a thick, ridgy, juicy, dark

730
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: pink vaginal wall becoming thin and inelastic and sort of

731
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: yellowish white. It's fairly depressing, but you'll understand why. It

732
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 2: feels like there's shards of glass in the vagina when

733
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: you're trying to have sex.

734
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: And also just makes you feel less alone, like this

735
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: is not just a you problem.

736
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 2: This is a real problem, exactly exactly, and again, probably

737
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: about seventy percent of all women eventually in their life

738
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: will experience this. It often is about five years after menopause,

739
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: so the average agent menopause is fifty one. It's usually

740
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 2: the fifty six, fifty seven, fifty eight year old coming

741
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: in my office with tears in her eyes saying, it

742
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: feels like sandpaper in there. I cannot do it. I

743
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 2: cannot do it, and my beg, I beg you all,

744
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: don't wait until it's that bad. Come to the doctor

745
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 2: in your late forties early fifties and say, I want

746
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 2: help now. It wasn't a it's an AS or B.

747
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 2: Plus I don't want to ever get worse than that

748
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: because it's always fixable. But it's much easier to climb

749
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: a LESSTI pill, and we can do it with vaginal estrogen.

750
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: There's a carbon dioxide laser that I actually brought to

751
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: America from Italy called Mona Lisa Touch, so you can

752
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: find someone in your zip code that has that. There's

753
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: even a medication, a non hormonal pill that will turn

754
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 2: on the receptors and fix things so you can fix

755
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: all that. Lube is great too, By the way, Lube

756
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: doesn't make any new cells. Lube does not cure GSM,

757
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: but it will always be a love additive, a lovely

758
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: band aid. And lube can be at any age. And

759
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 2: I would beg you to make lube something you giggle about,

760
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 2: you shop together for, you proudly display on your end table.

761
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: You don't hide it under the pillow and hope nobody

762
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,959
Speaker 2: sees it. It's it's okay, just say hey, I would

763
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: love to have even more fun tonight. And I got

764
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 2: this lube and it says it's got alo vera, which

765
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: makes me very happy. So we're gonna use a. You know,

766
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: it's not about shame.

767
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So everybody listening, ask the doctor, ask about GSM,

768
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: ask about vaginal estrogen, ask about all the things. To

769
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 1: let go of the shame and just reject the idea

770
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: that suffering is normal and that you are the only one,

771
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: because that is certainly not the case. You are not broken,

772
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: you are not around you.

773
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: You are like such an awesome advocate.

774
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I'm in it. I'm here with you.

775
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: Everybody that's listening, either you're in it, you've been in it,

776
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: or you're gonna be in it, So deal with that.

777
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: The bedroom gap is available where ever you buy your books,

778
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: and I highly recommend it. Buy one for yourself, buy

779
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: one for your partner, your friend. But before I let

780
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: you go, Yes, book group, let's all talk about it

781
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: before I let you go. Doctor Maria Sophocles, what was

782
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: your last I Choose me moment?

783
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 2: My last I choose me moment? Oh, that's a really

784
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: brilliant question, and I think it was. I was watching

785
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 2: my daughter, she's a stand up comedian and actress in

786
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,959
Speaker 2: New York, and I remember thinking I had something really

787
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: important to do, a patient emergency, and I kind of thought, no,

788
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: it's really important that I see her and support her.

789
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: And I got someone to take care of the patient.

790
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: And I went to see this stand up show and

791
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: I just loved got I got so much like heart

792
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 2: and soul swelling from watching this beautiful human being on

793
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: the stage just owning herself as a young woman, because

794
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: I get to see so many young women struggling and

795
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: suffering with guiani shoes or self esteem is shoes or

796
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 2: eating disorders, and you know, it's hard that generation. She's

797
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: twenty three. That generation had COVID and so much to

798
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 2: deal with. And in a weird way, it was choosing

799
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: myself because I think I have three sons and I'm

800
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 2: so proud of them. They're amazing humans. But to see

801
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: her just flourish and flower, I think one of my missions, Jenny,

802
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 2: is that our daughters, the next generation, learn about all

803
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: this that we spoke about, so that they can choose

804
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: themselves right in their twenties and have ask the questions

805
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: they want, communicate for what they want. I didn't really.

806
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: I was really that twenty year old nervous to impress

807
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 2: someone and pretend I was better at sex than I

808
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 2: was and had sex when I didn't want to. And

809
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: you know, I admit that freely because every other girl

810
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 2: I knew in college was doing the same thing. And

811
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 2: I think my daughter Kat is you know, Cat Martin

812
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: is her name. She's just really more informed. And I

813
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: brought books to all her roommates in college and the

814
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: whole dorm, and so unfortunately for the dorm, they all

815
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: got way more sex said than they wanted. Probably, But

816
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: I just I choose me because it's it gives me

817
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: so much pleasure to impact people of different generations, and

818
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: obviously for your and my generation. I love those women

819
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: to kind of have their own little sexual renaissance. So

820
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: you know, I I love what I do and I'm

821
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: so honored to get to do it. So I think,

822
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: in a way, that's choosing me.

823
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: You know it is, and your your passion is just

824
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: so inspiring and it's meaningful. I can imagine being a

825
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: patient of yours, and your passion just you know, requires

826
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: that I get passionate about it too, like it just

827
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: you know.

828
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: But look at the time you're giving to this. I mean,

829
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: you are so inspiring because you're willing to say, Guys,

830
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 2: this concept of I choose me is valuable. It's valuable

831
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: to everyone of us. So I love it. I've embraced it,

832
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: I've shared it. I hope you don't mind. I've totally

833
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: borrowed it. I've given you credit, but I'm totally borrowed it.

834
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: And I think more women need to be able to

835
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: say that. And we spoke about how hard that is

836
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: for so many women. So the Bedroom get Book does

837
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: touch on a sort of I choose me concept. If

838
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 2: you think about Absolutely, we need a double book toward Jenny.

839
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: It's a must read, honestly, a must read. This is

840
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: information we should all have. Thank you so much for

841
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: being us you guys. I'm very excited to share that

842
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: my book I Choose Me Chasing Joy, Finding Purpose and

843
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: Embracing reinvention is coming April fourteenth, and it would mean

844
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: the world to me if you would pre order a

845
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: copy or the audiobook wherever you get your books. And yes,

846
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: I am definitely narrating the audiobook, so it's going to

847
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: be so fun.