1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heard Radio and 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Grim and Mild from Aaron Meckley. For the best experience, 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: listened with headphones. The interesting thing was that they had 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: seen a ball of light rolling across the lawns. It 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: had rolled up a wall and burst into flame, and 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: Clifford Machanna, who was one of the more responsible workers, 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: had run to ring a bell which was kept there 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: for an emergency. While he was ringing the bell, this 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: ball of flame gathered together climbed down the wall. They 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: used the expression walked down the wall when past behind him, 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: and burst into flame again in another place. When this happened, 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: he was aware of three figures standing there. The three 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: figures turned around in unison, but slowly, and when they 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: faced him, he saw this brilliant light emanating from their 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: heads and it was upper power. Because he fell to 16 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: the ground. And I said, but they were three meters 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: away from you, about ten feet. How came you fell 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: to the ground, And he said their power was so strong. 19 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Now when he described them to me, he said they 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: had shiny suits. And you might remember that I told you. 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: There's no word in Shona mis Shona, which is their 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: language for the words silver. So when I wanted him 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: to be more explicit, he took a coin out of 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: his pocket, silver coin, and he said that was what 25 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: they were wearing. And then I said, Clifford, who did 26 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: you think they were? And he said, I knew they were. 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: They were my ancestors, the ghosts of my ancestors. And 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: I said, for Joe, ancestors wore fur and monkey skins 29 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: and lions teeth. They didn't wear silver suits. And he 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: thought for a better and then he said, well, times change. 31 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm Toby Ball and this is strange Arrivals Episode two 32 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: Excited and scared at the same time. In episode one, 33 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: we took a look at a UFO encounter in Papua 34 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: New Guinea. Aside from the details of the event, what 35 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: stood out to me was the matter of fact attitude 36 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: taken by Father William Gill, one of the witnesses and 37 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: the main chronicler. He reported what he saw, expressed his 38 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: sense of wonder, conceded that he might be mistaken in 39 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: thinking it was something alien, and understood if people didn't 40 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: believe him. But what happens when people with specific beliefs 41 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: about UFOs become involved in the reporting of an encounter. 42 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: In the next two episodes, we'll take a look at 43 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: an event similar to the one in Papua New Guinea, 44 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: but in this case, the investigations undertaken by UFO researchers 45 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: and journalists may have changed the narrative to a degree 46 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: that it is now hard to discern what actually happened 47 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: on the day of the sighting a setting that took 48 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: place at a dusty schoolyard in Zimbabwe. The summer of 49 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight saw the first edition of a newsletter, 50 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: or maybe it was a zine titled UFO Afrinews, published 51 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: out of Harari, Zimbabwe in Southern Africa. The cover had 52 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: the title and date of publication in a no frills font. 53 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: In the middle of the page was a fairly rough 54 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: outlined sketch of the African continent, flanked on the right 55 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: by a drawing of a classic flying saucer with a 56 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: single antenna and either five windows or five heads looking 57 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: out of a window running the length of the craft. 58 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: To the left of the continental outline was a drawing 59 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: of what I think is an antelope. Anyway, the cover 60 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: is very basic and sets the tone for the rest 61 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: of the presentation. Which is by today's standards almost comically 62 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: bare bones. But the content of the UFO Afrinews is 63 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: another story. It is the testament to the efforts of 64 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: a woman named Cynthia Hind, along with a small group 65 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: of correspondence, to document UFO encounters in Africa. The very 66 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: first paragraph of the first article, headlined comment, reads like this, 67 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: Like most investigators, over long period twenty years, my terms 68 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: of reference have changed subtly. Where isolation, disrespect, and ridicule 69 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 1: were at one time paramount, I've recently begun to notice 70 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: a change, the grudging acceptance of the possibility of life 71 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: out there, even from the most conservative member of society, 72 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: a laid back support, however hopeless, and current terms of 73 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: what ufologists are doing. Over the next twelve years, UFO 74 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: AFRINUWS published twenty two editions featuring stories with headlines such 75 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: as UFO crash on Botswana, South African Border, Bus in 76 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: the Sky and UFO in the fields of afrom Planes. 77 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: But the biggest story covered by UFO Afrinews ran in 78 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: its eleventh edition, released in February of nineteen ninety five. 79 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: Spanning several articles. It began with a report on an 80 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: object that was seen across Southern Africa traversing the night 81 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: sky the evening of Wednesday, September fourteenth, nineteen ninety four. 82 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: According to Hind, the first reports came from Johannesburg, South Africa, 83 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: where people called into a local radio show to report 84 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: seeing lights in the sky. Over the next ten to 85 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: twelve minutes, the light were seen by people in South Africa, Botswana, 86 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: Southern Zambia and Zimbabwe. Hind wrote the general consensus of 87 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: opinion was that the lights were preceded by a ball 88 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: of fire which seemed to have a point to it 89 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: with a long tail of sparks. It was white or 90 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: goldish color and lit up brilliantly in the sky. Some 91 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: people saw three huge lights at the front, with smaller 92 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: lights varying from eight to twenty. Many reported that the 93 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: objects were traveling very fast from north to south, others 94 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: that had moved slowly. Her article went on to relate 95 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: in detail the reports of a number of individuals about 96 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: what they had witnessed that night. She concluded that there 97 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: were three possibilities for what was seen. A plane flying 98 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: the Johannesburg to Bulawayo to Harari route that was running 99 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: late putting it in the right place and time to 100 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: be the object an unknown craft not of this Earth, 101 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: or anticipating what is now considered the fact of the matter. 102 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: A Russian satellite that had been launched on the twenty 103 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: sixth or twenty seventh of August had jettisoned its nose 104 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: cone on September fourteenth. The nose cone had broken up 105 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: as it entered the atmosphere over southern Africa. She mentioned 106 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: pieces of the cone being retrieved northwest of Harari and 107 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: from a river in Mozambique. It was in this atmosphere 108 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: of concern about the lights in the sky above southern 109 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: Africa that the events behind the most consequential revelations of 110 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: this edition of UFO Afrinows occurred. On Friday September sixteenth, 111 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: thirty six hours after the lights in the sky, sixty 112 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: two children at the Aerial School in Rua, Zimbabwe had 113 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: an encounter with an object and non human beings in 114 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: the fields beyond their school yard. The Aerial School is 115 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: a private elementary school in the town of Rua, which 116 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: is about twelve miles east of the capital city of Harrari. 117 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety four, the school was racially diverse, and 118 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: it's more than two hundred. Students were pulled largely from 119 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: middle class and upper class families. They came from as 120 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: far away as Harrari, reportedly about a thirty minute drive. 121 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: The boys at the school wore uniforms of khaki shorts 122 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: and matching button up Safari shirts. The girls wore square 123 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: collared dresses of light blue with white piping on the 124 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: collars and sleeves. At ten fifteen that warm spring morning, 125 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: they were outside at recess. No adults were present. There 126 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: was a staff meeting inside. Older students had been left 127 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: in charge. In all, there were about two hundred and 128 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: fifty students. Outside of those, sixty two would reports seeing 129 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: a craft and some number of beings. The basics of 130 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: the encounter were fairly straightforward. What complicates matters was that 131 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: all all of the witnesses were children who were interviewed 132 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: again and again in whose stories could not help but evolve. 133 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: That's not a criticism of the children. In fact, because 134 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: adult interviewers generally did not exercise proper precautions in interviewing 135 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: the children, it is almost inevitable that the children's perceptions 136 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: would change. With that in mind, let's take a look 137 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: at the basic story that comes out of the encounter 138 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: before examining how the students were questioned in the days, weeks, 139 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: and months that followed. I'm not going to spend time 140 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: on a few issues tangential to the main story, such 141 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: as whether a small number of students saw lights in 142 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: the sky either that morning or the day before at 143 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: the time of this recording. Charlie Wiser's excellent and comprehensive 144 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: website three Dollar Kit is a great source for a 145 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: detailed look at all of the issues in this encounter. 146 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: With all that being said, there are essentially two elements 147 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: to the encounter, the sighting of the craft at a 148 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: distance beyond the playground amongst some trees, and then the 149 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: appearance of some figures around the craft. It began with 150 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: some children noticing an object glinting in the sun, maybe 151 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: a hundred meters past the edge of their schoolyard from 152 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: the February nineteen ninety five edition of UFO Afronows. Shortly 153 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: after ten o'clock, a few of the children noticed something 154 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: strange beyond their playground, which was dotted with several clumps 155 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: of trees, the rest being mostly cleared ground there was 156 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: bush area. The ground there belonged to the school, and 157 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: though attempts had been made to clear it and level it, 158 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: it really was still rough land, long grass with thorn 159 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: and other indigenous bushes, trees growing in higgledy piggledy fashion, 160 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: and undergrowth thick and heavy enough to hide a child 161 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: should they venture there. Besides which no one knew what 162 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: dangerous small animals such as snakes, jackals, and identified spiders, scorpions, etc. 163 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: Might be lurking in the grass. The following are clips 164 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: of aerial students taken from interviews conducted by Zimbabwean radio 165 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: and television personality Jill Dark in the weeks following the encounter. 166 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: Here they described seeing the craft. We start with a 167 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: student named Candice, Me and my friend Play Hailey and 168 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: kamal Up. We were just walking and then we saw 169 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: this maroon color just waving about and it was disappearing 170 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: and disappearing, and we started to follow it. And then 171 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: we stood over there on one of the logs and 172 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: we saw like this silver thing and we decided that 173 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: we should go down there and see. But Play said 174 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: we're not allowedly, so I said that it doesn't matter 175 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: let's just go and see. And we got closer and closer, 176 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: and we saw this silver thing just shining it and 177 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: we thought that it was just a house of glass 178 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: and reflecting in the sun and shining here. We thought, no, 179 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: it can't be that, because there's no houses up to 180 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: play on the rocks. And then we waited for a 181 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: few minutes and we just stared at it, and we 182 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: heard this flute, sort of like a flute. Louise, this 183 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 1: is Muna Rodzy. He mentions a touch shop, which is 184 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: more or less a snack shop at the school. Well, 185 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: I was at the touch shop of the year, and 186 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: then I shook with the pros at the year the slight, 187 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: so I wanted and I looked and I saw this 188 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: shot and he had the slide like a patten um 189 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: yellow pole and me, this is another aerial student named Guy. 190 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: So I went down to think know what was happening, 191 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: and I actually saw this school of trees and it 192 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: was like in a multi way pattern like silver and 193 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: green and that sort of colors. And then there was 194 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: this little boy crying. So I went up to him 195 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: to see what was wrong with him, and he said 196 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: he was quite afraid of it. And then that actually 197 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: made me quite afraid of it, because then somebody's afraid 198 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: like it to see interviews conducted by Tim Leach of 199 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: the BBC and Cynthia Hind on the Monday and Tuesday 200 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: after the sighting, so a few weeks before the clips 201 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: we just heard provide additional information. Guy who we heard 202 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: from earlier described the craft as quote roundabout like a disk. 203 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: A student named Nathan said, quote it had a round 204 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: top and it was flat like that around the sides. 205 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: Charity described it as quote like a saucer, but the 206 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: shape wasn't really round. The students also saw figures by 207 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: the craft. As we will see later, there was some 208 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: inconsistency in their descriptions of these figures. Here's Muna Rodzi again, 209 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: there was something running across in something the shop that 210 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: didn't when I looked more dumb, when I looked like 211 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: strength and strength to some like million things. He had 212 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: big guys like once guy was saying, here, Guy, I 213 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: saw this person and his eyes were like in a 214 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: slant like say like so, and his life was just 215 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: like a line like this. And then at the time 216 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: the teachers were in a starting team, so nobody actually 217 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: went have to go and call the teachers, because I 218 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: think there were two phrases and everything. This is Candice. 219 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: I saw this black figure running in slow motion, and 220 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: then I didn't want to see it, so I looked away, 221 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: and I looked again. Wasn't there anymore? Candice's friend Claire, 222 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: this figure like Candace Seed running in slow ocean and 223 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: when clicked, its hit and looked at me onto the grass, 224 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: and me and Canvas were really scared. We nearly screamed. 225 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: We were so scared, and we were running back and 226 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: forth because we were excited and scared at the same time. 227 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: In their interviews with the students, Tim Leech and Cynthia 228 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Hind also elicited descriptions of the figures around the craft. 229 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: Some examples, Oriana said, quote, I don't know what it was, 230 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: but it was very thin. All I saw was a 231 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: long thing on a silver thing. Kayley saw three figures, 232 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: stating we saw some people, a white one, a red one, 233 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: a black one. The black one was sitting on the spaceship. 234 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: Luke recalled that the figure he saw seemed to have 235 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: long hair, quote, I didn't see the spaceship, but I 236 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: saw the little black guy. He was all black, and 237 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: it looked like he had long hair, Daniel said, quote, 238 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: it almost looked like a real person, except it was 239 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: fairly plump. He continued, his hair was it looked more 240 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: like our hair. It wasn't curly. That thing almost looked 241 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: like a hippie. Big eyes, slanted eyes, very thin, fairly plump, 242 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: long hair, red white, black, almost like a hippie. The 243 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: descriptions aren't consistent and are occasionally contradictory, and more detail 244 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: was to come when they were asked to draw pictures 245 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: of what they had seen, but we'll get to that 246 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: in a minute. BBC correspondent Tim Leech heard about the 247 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: encounter on Friday, the day had occurred. He called Cynthia Hind, 248 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: a friend of his, to tell her about the event. 249 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: Hind began her investigation that weekend. She called Alison Kirkman, 250 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: who was volunteering at the Touch shop when the sighting occurred, 251 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: as well as three student witnesses. It's not clear which 252 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: three students those were. The most interesting thing about the 253 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: aerial school encounter is that there is this kind of 254 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: unfortunate weekend like it happened on a Friday. There's a 255 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: weekend where possible contamination of testimony could occur, like the 256 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: kids apparently broke up from school at one o'clock on 257 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: the Friday afternoon, and then people were talking about it 258 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: for presumably the rest of that day. This is researcher 259 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: and writer Gideon read and then, as I understand it, 260 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: Cynthia and spoke to some people by telephone that weekend. Now, 261 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: if those telephone conversations have been recorded and can be published, 262 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: that would be fascinating because that would kind of go 263 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: a long way toward countering any arguments the testimonies were 264 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: hopelessly corrupted. What Gideon is talking about here is that 265 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: hind through her four conversations could have affected the way 266 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: that people, particularly the students, understood what they had seen. 267 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: We'll see how this can work in a minute. School 268 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: went back into session on Monday morning. The headmaster, Colin Mackie, 269 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: asked each of the students who had seen the craft 270 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: and the figures to draw a picture of what they 271 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: had seen. There was a wide range in the students 272 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: artistic ability, owing largely to the difference in their ages. 273 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: While the drawings are not all consistent, there are some 274 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: basic details that the majority of the drawings hint at 275 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: a craft more or less like what you would think 276 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: of when you think of a flying saucer, short and wide, 277 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: either a disk or a rectangular shape, often with windows 278 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: or lights. A number of the drawings have the craft 279 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: situated within a group of trees. Many of the drawings 280 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: depicted a being or beings, some looking like the classic 281 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: alien with the big angled eyes in the barely their 282 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: nose and mouth, and critically bald heads. Others showed a 283 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: figure with long, straight hair, as we heard described earlier. 284 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: Over the next two days, Tim Leech and Cynthia Hind, 285 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: along with a BBC camera crew and Hind's assistant and 286 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: cameraman Gunter Hofer, visited Aerial School. Mackie, the headmaster, found 287 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: himself in a difficult situation. His school was suddenly thrust 288 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: into the spotlight, with both an international news organization and 289 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: the most prominent UFO researcher in Southern Africa converging on RUA. 290 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: His thoughts on what happened in the schoolyard were complicated. 291 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: I feel sure that the children feel that they did 292 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: see something. I don't believe or disbelief to be perfect honest, 293 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: but I do feel that they definitely saw something. We 294 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: had a number of children say they did. We asked 295 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: them to do a pictures of what they saw this morning, 296 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: what they saw on Friday, and after looking at it 297 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: as I definitely feel that they did see something. I 298 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: agree that it could be something that we are not 299 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: common with, but to actually say that it was a UFO, 300 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: I would be reluctant to make a decision like that. 301 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: I personally did not see it. No adult had. Leech 302 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: came to the school and conducted his interviews for the 303 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: BBC on Monday. On Tuesday, Cynthia Hind arrived with Gunter Hofer. 304 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: Hind reviewed the children's drawings and then began to question 305 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: the children. And here we begin to see the problem 306 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: that plagues accounts of this event. After the break, strange 307 00:20:42,960 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: arrivals will return in a moment. Cynthia Hind, the most 308 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: prominent UFO researcher in Southern Africa, arrived at the Ariel 309 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: school on the Tuesday following the Friday encounter. During the 310 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: intervening weekend, she had talked to an adult who hadn't 311 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: seen anything, but had been the nearest adult to the 312 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: students who did, as well as three students who were witnesses. 313 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: She came to Ariel School to gather more information from 314 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: the other students who had seen the craft and its occupants. 315 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: Questioning witnesses is a difficult endeavor. A good questioner wants 316 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: to obtain the subject's information, not influence it, and this 317 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: requires training and skill. Questioning children is even more difficult 318 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: because they are more susceptible to influence, whether intentional or not. 319 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: On his blog Skeptic versus the Flying Saucers, Jille Fernandez, 320 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: a writer and lecturer with a PhD in cognitive psychology, 321 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: identifies two critical mistakes that Hind makes while interviewing this students. First, 322 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: she not only interviews the children in a group where 323 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: other children form an audience to watch the interviews. This 324 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: allows for students to influence each other's accounts. We heard 325 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: an example of this dynamic earlier when in an interview 326 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: with Jill Dark Muna Rodzy said, the guys like what 327 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: guy would say. He says he had big eyes, like 328 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: one guy was saying. Here, he's referencing the account that 329 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: he's just seen his classmate Guy give and confirming its accuracy. 330 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: Here's another example, again with Jill Dark I saw this 331 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: black figure running in slow motion. And then I didn't 332 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: want to see it, so I looked away, and I 333 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: looked again, and I wasn't there anymore, This figure like canvacy, 334 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: running in slow motion, and one pluck, it hit up 335 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: and looked at me onto. Here Candice and her Frank 336 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: Claire are telling the story together. They can't help but 337 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: influence each other's accounts. Second, Hind doesn't allow the children 338 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: to freely tell their story for Nandez explains that interviewers 339 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: should not interject or ask specific questions. Children should be 340 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: allowed to tell their story without prompting and less rephrasing 341 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: what they had just said is necessary to get them 342 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: back to talking. Fernandez writes, of a generic interviewer quote, 343 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: he absolutely must not interrupt him nor ask him specific 344 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: and precise questions. On that Tuesday, Hind began by interviewing 345 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: a group of children together with the headmaster and other 346 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: children watching. They brought in the oldest children. Randall Nickerson, 347 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: creator of the documentary The Aerial Phenomenon, all those children 348 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: in that first interview. She brings in the Actually the 349 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: headmaster did was to bring in all the older kids, 350 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: who are much more responsible and were more experienced, and 351 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: that's what you see there. Addressing the same point, Gideon 352 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: Read references film taken and posted by Hine's assistant Gunter Hofer. 353 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: So the video that you see on gafa's YouTube channel 354 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: sank behind and spearing the children. She's kind of going 355 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: along the line of children in the room and there's 356 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: like a crowd of children in the doorway. I think 357 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: that was filmed on the Tuesday, and to leach when 358 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: the BBC was there on the Monday. So by the Tuesday, 359 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: the children have already probably been asked the same question 360 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of times. There's just so much unknown 361 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: about that whole little period. This section of the transcript 362 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: of Hinds interview with Candice read by actors shows that 363 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: far from allowing the student to tell her story, Hind 364 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: guy the telling. While she doesn't seem to intentionally elicit 365 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: certain answers, the questions that she asks indicate what she 366 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: thinks is important about the story. She also asks either 367 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: or questions that limit possible answers. Would you say it 368 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: was like an ordinary suit? Was it like what mister 369 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: Mackie's wearing, No? Or what would you call the type 370 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: of clothing. I'm not sure, but he was really Have 371 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: you ever seen the divers going in the sea? Oh? Yes, 372 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: like that? Was it like that or was it like 373 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: an overall or tight fitting suit? It was tight fitting. 374 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: It was tight fitting, yes, and it was shiny. Yes. 375 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: Could you see his face? Well, I only saw a 376 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: glimpse of it, and you don't remember any individual features. 377 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: I only remember that his eyes were quite big. Eyes 378 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: were big? And were you afraid? I was a little afraid. Here, 379 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: Hind has introduced the idea that the students might be afraid. 380 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: Candice can answer either in the affirmative or negative, and 381 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: actually kind of splits the difference by saying she was 382 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: a little afraid. What do you think it was? I 383 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: don't know. I just thought it was some kind of 384 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: alien from a different planet. She asks for Candice's opinion, 385 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: moving the conversation away from the student's experience and to conjecture. 386 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: And given who Hind was, the answer that she is 387 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: looking for is probably clear to Candice. So you knew 388 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: about UFOs, Yes, you've watched on television. Yes, you think 389 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: that influenced you? Or you weren't thinking about that? When 390 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about it? And then, talking in front 391 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: of a group of students and Headmaster Mackie Hind speculates 392 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: that although people may have seen the breakup of a 393 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: Russian rocket on August twenty seventh, it doesn't explain the 394 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: figures they saw. She continues, we don't know what it 395 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: is and it could be just there was a Russian 396 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: satellite breakup on the twenty seventh of August, and it's 397 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: a possibility something came down, but it would not account 398 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: for the figure you saw. And I think it's time 399 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: the world woke up that something's going on. And they 400 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: don't all think I'm a kookie character, a weird lady 401 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: as they call me. In this one extraordinary statement, Hind 402 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: seems to confirm to the students that they have seen 403 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: something of great importance. Quote, It's time the world woke 404 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: up that something's going on end quote and given the 405 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: students the power to rehabilitate her image as, in her words, 406 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: a koukie character. Over the next month and a half, 407 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: the students at Aerial School were interviewed by a zimbabwe 408 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: In tevision and radio personality named Jill Dark and by 409 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: Nicole Harter of the South African Broadcasting Corporation. On November 410 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: twenty fourth, the South African television show Agenda ran a 411 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: piece on the sighting, which included mention of Harvard psychology 412 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: professor and UFO researcher John Mack, who was due to 413 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: arrive in Africa. In the February nineteen ninety five edition 414 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: of UFO Afrinews, hind expressed the excitement in having Mac 415 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: visit Zimbabwe. Here then, is a man who is not 416 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: only open minded and prepared to listen, but an academic 417 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: of some standing and one who has risked his credibility 418 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: with his colleagues to come out and say he believes 419 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: the experiences of abductees are very real. Indeed, when he arrived, 420 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: it was a read lay to day for Zimbabwe. New 421 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: York Times reporter and John Mac biographer Ralph Blumenthal. John 422 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: Mack went there to Zimbabwe, recorded the interviews on camera, 423 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: questioned the children. He was very good with children, by 424 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: the way, because child psychology was always one of his 425 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: fields of interest, and he knew how to talk to 426 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: kids in a non threatening way to get them to 427 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: open up to him. So he got them really to 428 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: tell what they had seen. Mack interviewed the arial students 429 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: on December second and third, nineteen ninety four, two and 430 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: a half months after the sighting. If you've heard of 431 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: the Ariel sighting before this podcast, you've probably heard about 432 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: the messages that the student said they had received through 433 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: some kind of telepathy from the alien figures, messages about 434 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: how the Earth's environment was in peril. We'll take a 435 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: closer look at Mack's career as a UFOE investigator in 436 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: upcoming episodes, but for now, it is important to understand 437 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: that Mac was an ardent environmentalist and anti nuclear activist 438 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: and perceived that the purported alien abductees that he worked 439 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: with were given messages from their abductors about the need 440 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: to protect the planet. Here is Mac in an interview 441 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: with philosopher Terrence McKenna at the International Transpersonal Conference in 442 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: Prague in June nineteen ninety two, two years before the 443 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: aerial school encounter. The clip begins with McKenna asking a question, 444 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: and then Mac answers, then, do you think of it 445 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: as an ecological danger signal that it's a message from 446 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: an Earth intelligence, perhaps the Earth? There are telepieces of 447 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: evidence that suggests that that's true. One is that the 448 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: abductees themselves on the ships, receive intense messages about ecological destruction, 449 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: annihilation of whole forest systems, pollution of the water system, 450 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: visions of the planet dying, and they see that on 451 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: television like screens. They get it through telepathic community. And 452 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: these are not environmentalists, these people. They are people who 453 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 1: are very simple, ordinary people, unremarkable except that they are 454 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: getting this extraordinary information and they actually become intensely passionately 455 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: concerned about the Earth and what's happening to the earth 456 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: and their children do because their children may be abducted 457 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: as well. So, given his thoughts about the message that 458 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: aliens are trying to impart, it's striking that when mac arrives, 459 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: some of the children he interviews mentioned the alien figures 460 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: concerned with the environment. Researcher and writer Gideon Read, you know, 461 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: there was no mention of anyone receiving telepathic communication until 462 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: John mckinsfeed the children seventy seven days later, which is 463 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: a huge amount of time for something so distinct and 464 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: so mind changing for someone to have received helepathic communication 465 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: and for it to not be heard about until they're 466 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: sat in an interview two and a half months later 467 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: and then the things that they say that they had 468 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: received in those interviews just happened to be perfectly aligned 469 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: with the concerns and interests of the academic that they're 470 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: talking to. On the website Three Dollar Kit, Charlie Wiser 471 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: lays out transcripts of interviews of the aerial student witnesses 472 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: chronologically prior to Max's appearance. The environmentalist message coming from 473 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: the alien figures was not mentioned. Mac interviewed twelve children 474 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: on film, but most of the films and transcripts are 475 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: embargoed by the John Mac Institute until sometime in twenty 476 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: twenty three. But what is available of his interviews include 477 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: student Emma Ka stating during a conversation about why she 478 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: was afraid of the strange visitors, I think they want 479 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: people to know that we're actually making harm on this 480 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: world and we mustn't get too technologed. When asked by 481 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: Mac what he quote imagines is the aliens quote reason 482 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: for visiting Earth, a student named Francis replies, quote, I 483 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: think it's about something that's going to happen. Mac asks him, like, 484 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: what Francis says? Pollution or something in this case, Francis 485 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: doesn't state that this is a message he received from 486 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: the aliens. Instead, he responded to Mac asking him what 487 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: he quote imagines. His answers flowed from that request to imagine, 488 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: not his relating what actually happened. It's worth taking a 489 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: slightly closer look at another interview, this time with a 490 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: student named Lisel. The important part for our purposes comes 491 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: after an edit in the film, so it's not clear 492 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: what question Mac asks, but Lisel's response is, what I 493 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: do is maybe the rule is going to end. Maybe 494 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: they're telling us the rules going to end. Well, why 495 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: do you think they might want us to be scared? Because? 496 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: And you maybe because we would that look after the 497 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: planet and the air poppery, And I mean this is 498 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: is this an idea that you have had before that 499 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: we don't look after the planet properly in the air 500 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: or did this idea come to you when you had 501 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: this experience? When I had this experience? And how did 502 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: that idea come to you? From this six This is 503 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: a little hard, but try to be with me here, Okay, 504 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: when you how did this idea come to you? When 505 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: you had this experience? I just felt all horrible inside. 506 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: You felt horrible. At what point did you feel that 507 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: when you saw the craft or when you got home 508 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: at night or I got her, you had that horrible 509 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: feeling when you got home. And to say more about 510 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 1: that horrible feeling? Right, So, what was it like? It 511 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: was like on the all the cheese will just start 512 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: down and a little binner, and people be dying, and 513 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: those thoughts came to you. Had you had those thoughts 514 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: before this experience? No? And did how did those thoughts 515 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: come to you? Did they come to you from the 516 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: craft or from from the man? The man and the man? 517 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: Did the man say those things to you? How did 518 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: he get that across to you? Oh, he never said anything. 519 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: It's just that the face missed the eyes. What was 520 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: the sense you got from those eyes? It was interesting. Now, 521 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: there's no indication that mac talked to the children about 522 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: his environmental concerns, but it is strange that this was 523 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: not part of the aerial story until he arrived to 524 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: interview the child witnesses, and this became part of the 525 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: narrative from there on out. This is a clip of 526 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: two boys talking with Tinica Denuis on the Dutch television 527 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: show Tinica and the Paranormale Vault fifteen months after Max's 528 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: interviews in a year and a half after the sighting. 529 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: Some people say that people are saying that the aliens 530 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: came to warn us whom something's going to happen. This 531 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: something that is going to happen to the oath. I 532 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: think they came here to try and warn us that 533 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: the children left because we're young a long time, We've 534 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: got a long time until we die, to warn us 535 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: that in been we're older, there's something going to happen 536 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: to the earth. Not to pollut can still prevent it. Yeah, 537 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,720 Speaker 1: So by the time that Tinka Danui visits Aerial school, 538 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: the students have settled on a narrative that is driven 539 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: by what they saw that Friday morning on the playground, 540 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: but has been inevitably corrupted by poor investigatory practices and 541 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: possibly by the personal beliefs of a premier UFO investigator. 542 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: But even if the details of their stories may not 543 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: be one hundred percent reliable, it seems as though they 544 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: saw something and if it wasn't a landed spacecraft, what 545 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: could it be next time? On Strange Arrivals. Strange Arrivals 546 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and Mild from 547 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: Aaron Manky. This episode was written and hosted by Toby 548 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: Ball and produced by Rima l Kaali, Jesse Funk, and Naami, 549 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: with executive producers Alexander Williams, Matt Frederick and Aaron Mankey 550 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: and supervising producer Josh Thame, with voice acting by Teresa Backer, 551 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: Julianna Thompson and Alexandra Williams, and special thanks to Kay 552 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: Adams of archive dot org. Learn more about the show 553 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: at Grimmanmild dot com, slash Strange Arrivals, and find more 554 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio by visiting the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 555 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.