1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: Land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: making of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: host Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm going to dig 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: into some scenes with Emmy nominated actor Anna Klumsky, who 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: plays journalist Vivian Kent. In our chat, Anna reveals her 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: lifelong ambition to play a journalist and her approach to 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: bringing Vivian to life on screen. We also discussed some 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: of our favorite milestone Vivian moments and how she and 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: co star Julia Garner approached their final scene together. Welcome 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: Anna Clumsky. It's so nice to have you on our show. 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: How are you? Thank you. I'm well, I'm well. How 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: are you doing well? And it's hard for me to 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: not think of you every time I hear the name 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna, because that is also your name. Also my name, 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: also Anna Davir Smith's name. Yes, yeah, there were a 18 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: lot of Anna's. I wondered about that on set if 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: there was some confusion. Oh yeah, all the time, all 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: the time. And then yeah, and we would always say, 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: just call us by our characters. Well you figured it out, 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: which is all that matters. Yeah, So before we talk 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: about inventing Anna, I was very intrigued and heartened to 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: hear about something you said recently, which is you had 25 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: always dreamed about playing a journalist and as a journalist. 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that someone would dream about playing a 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: character like me and a show. You've also said that 28 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: you have been scared to ask people questions in your 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: life as Anna as an actor, and I'm curious walk 30 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: me through not only what has intrigued you about journalism, 31 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: but what is it about that job that scared you. 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: I mean, we could do, you know, several long therapy 33 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: sessions on why I you know, like why I have 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: basically like a big old censor on my own questioning. 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: I think, honestly to be succinct about it, I'm I'm 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: sort of a large talker. I don't do small talk. 37 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: I do large talk, and I you know, over the 38 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: last forty one year, I've discovered that sometimes people aren't 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: into that. Sometimes people really don't want to skip to 40 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 1: like their mom and they're like issues in their household. 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: They want to just talk about the weather, right, So 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: you're saying you prefer to get into existential angst and 43 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: not small talk essentially usually yes, yeah, almost as a rule, 44 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to hurt people 45 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: with my with my curiosity. There's so much of that 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: superficial banter that is kind of part of the job 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: at parties and gatherings. And I have felt that too, 48 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: where you just think, can we just get to the 49 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: good stuff? Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's one of That's one 50 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I lived in your smart Smart 51 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: not to make generalizations, but let's generalize. Yeah, And but 52 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: then also yeah, so like I think I really started 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: to get into the idea of like, wow, what is 54 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: it what is it like to just have unbridled channel 55 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: from your own curiosity to the person that you're with, 56 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: Like Frank rich is a is a great journalist. Of 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: course you worked with him on Veep, yes, and so 58 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: he was a producer on Veep, and you know, we 59 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: would like go out with him and his wife, Alex Witchell, 60 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: and they would just they just had it all right there. 61 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: They just like everything. They were so curious about everything 62 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: around them, and they were so excited to know more, 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: and they would ask. They would just ask, and I thought, Oh, wow, 64 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: that's just amazing and delicious, and I am so interested 65 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: in that. I love that you maybe think of something, 66 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: which is journalists get to be curious for a living. Yeah, 67 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: which is really cool. And I think actors are like 68 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: that too, at least the ones A lot of the 69 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: ones I speak to are get They get to be 70 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: curious and inhabit new stories, and I think that there 71 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: is a lot of cross over there. It's true. We yeah, 72 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: we have to. We have to. We're always looking for 73 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: the deeper, you know, the more. We're always digging lutely. 74 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: And in terms of this story, obviously, journalism is at 75 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: the center of it. Jessica Pressler's incredible story on Anna Delvie. 76 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: Unlike a lot of people we've spoken to this podcast, 77 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: you have said that you actually didn't know that much 78 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: about the Anna delbe saga, and I would love to 79 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: know how that informed your conversations with Shonda Rhimes and 80 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: Betsy Beers when you sat down to talk about Vivian 81 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: And what were the questions you were asking in those 82 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: first meetings. Oh, I had just I had actually just 83 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: listened to Rebecca Jarvis's podcast on Elizabeth Holmes, and so 84 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: this is the dropout about the Paramos founders scamp right, Yes, 85 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: so it was really already kind of at the tip 86 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: of my brain, the young sort of exemplifying of a 87 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: young woman who is, you know, sort of doing better 88 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: at this fakery game than even the fakers who made it. 89 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: That's sort of what was on my brain. Well, in 90 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: the so much that comes up in Elizabeth Holmes story, 91 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: the idea of how an attractive young woman, a blonde woman, 92 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: how she can navigate this world in a way that 93 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: is different from an older person or maybe a person 94 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: of color. She inhabits a very unique space. And how 95 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: mad they were about like her changing her voice and yeah, 96 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: it's weird, You're right, Like inauthenticity is always weird. It's 97 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: always weird. I love truth, I love telling the truth. 98 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, however, are you that mad at all 99 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: those like, you know, nerdy guys who then start dressing 100 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: like their hip hop stars and like they're all completely 101 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: false as well? Well. And let's also go back to 102 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: the tech pioneers. I mean a lot of these guys 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: exerted a lot of abusive behavior on their employees and 104 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: colleagues that was forgiven because of their genius. So we 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: see this over and over again as men not having 106 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: to apologize for those behaviors. But women know, the young 107 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: women are only allowed to be genius as long as 108 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: the older men can to own them. That's it. That 109 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: is very true. So that that is what we were 110 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: talking about. I love that. And when you were talking 111 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: to Shawanda and Betsy about this, obviously they have so 112 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: many insights and wonderful directions of how to guide actors, 113 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: but they also want you to claim this as your own. 114 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Vivian Kent is not a real person. She's obviously an 115 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: amalgam largely based on Jessica, but also composite aspects to 116 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: her too. What did they empower you to do in 117 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: terms of owning this character and creating something new for 118 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: the screen. That was very much some of the beginning conversations, 119 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: because we just had to decide where. We had wonderful 120 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: research department. They were able to provide us with anything 121 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: you needed, and so the first decision was what's my directive? Like, 122 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: what's where where? What path do I take in the research? 123 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 1: So I I found that just reading the copious notes 124 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: that Jessica provided us was such. I was almost surprised 125 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: at how much that opened up for me, because I 126 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: realized Vivian, the character Vivian loves her brain probably more 127 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: than anything that does come through. I like that, you know, 128 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: she really loves it, and so in the written word 129 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: means so much to her because she cares about the 130 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: craft of journalism as passionately as I care about the 131 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: craft of acting. And so I just thought, you know, 132 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: the written word is really going to be my anchor 133 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: and my guide in making these choices and and knowing 134 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: her motivations and knowing how she ticks. I'm playing somebody 135 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: who loves the page very much, and the page that 136 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: has just been this dying breed for how many years 137 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: it keeps saying print is dead. We've seen, actually the 138 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: announcements of some of my favorite magazines ceasing print publications 139 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks, and I feel, as does Vivian. 140 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: My heart breaks every day when you hear these announcements. 141 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: M H. What was so interesting to me, and this 142 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: is there is a style. There is a distinct style 143 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: to this article, and it's the style that, like personally, 144 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: Anna Klumsky, I don't write it. You know, when I 145 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: write my own stuff, I don't write in that style. 146 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: It's it has a really deft balance between classicism in 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: like well constructed you know, thesis, and colloquialism. There's a 148 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: lot of colloquialism in it there. That was exactly what 149 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: I was going for. I was like, the reason Vivian 150 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: is good at this and why she trusts She wants 151 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: to trust her instincts so badly, even though others really don't. 152 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: She knows that she's got that sort of sweet spot 153 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: between like classical literature and taste in art and pop right, 154 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: she can swim between the two, and that's why she's like, no, no, 155 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: this is a cover story. And like, honestly, like I said, 156 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about it before, so I probably 157 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,359 Speaker 1: would have been like, really, is this a cover story? 158 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: She knew, but it's all in the way she chose 159 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: to tell it. Yes, yes, but she knew that people 160 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: would grab it. Yeah, And there's a Wall Street Journal 161 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: version of this story. There's an Atlantic burnished version of 162 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: this story. And she chose to tell it in her 163 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: voice because she she trusted her instincts that that was 164 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: going to resonate with people, and that's where that sort 165 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: of trust me, guys, trust me, this is it. Yeah. Yeah, 166 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: in the you know, the very uncomfortable words proved just 167 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: dead type topic. I think there's a lot of people 168 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: who are just like throw up their hands or they're like, 169 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how to talk to these people, right, 170 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what TikTok is. I don't know what 171 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: these people do. And she's like, well, you can do that, 172 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: or you can actually try and understand it. And you know, 173 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: we've some sort of a fabric between the two between 174 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: where we came from and where we're going. You gotta 175 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: figure it out, you know. And and and I think 176 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: she's got that. She's she's got that potmante reality. That 177 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: is something that I don't. I'm very square. Well you're 178 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: more academic leaning, yes, And so I was. I was 179 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: really excited to figure that out and and live in 180 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: that world a little bit because because I don't live 181 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: there often. Well, and what you bring up is so important, 182 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: which is her pot mentality is the reason her stories 183 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: are so perfect for I p to adapt. Hustlers is 184 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: very evocative. It's at once about class and people of 185 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: color and women trying to break into a world. It's 186 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: also just sort of sexy and fun and audacious and 187 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: disguised and set exactly and disguise and sex. So I 188 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: think it's like that gay till least, that great tradition 189 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: of their narrative storyteller. But who isn't judging his or 190 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: her subjects. You're just coloring the world and then putting 191 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: it out there. And I think that's what Jessica and 192 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: thus Shonda has done with this show. Yes, yes, yeah, 193 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: Shonda also has Yeah, she had a big part in 194 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: this too. Yeah that magic. Okay, don't go anywhere. There's 195 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: more from behind the scenes of inventing Anna right after this. 196 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: Hey Stacy here again. Now back to the interview. So, 197 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: I have a number of scenes i'd love to discuss 198 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: with you because there's so many things to unpack. As 199 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: the kids say these days. I like that one there's 200 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: someone get hold space. I'm like, God, don't we have 201 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: a better way? Don't we have a better way to 202 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: say it? I love the idea of holding space, but 203 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: I want a better way. But on Pat, I totally 204 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm still on that train. I like, let's unpack. I'm 205 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: with you. I do not bristle at that word. I 206 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: actually I revel and using it. So let's unpack There's 207 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: something in episode two that really struck me, which is 208 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: this idea that journalists sort of celebrate this badge of 209 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: honor of being these poor worker bees. Right, you know, 210 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: you rail against the establishment. I don't need that fancy job. 211 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing this for thirty five K year and I'm 212 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: doing God's work and I'm for the people. And then 213 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: when we see her go to the mansion, we see 214 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: her spend time with Talia. This is Vivian, of course, 215 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: we see her sort of softening and thinking, well, maybe 216 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: money is not that bad and these heated floors are 217 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: actually really really luxurious and comfortable inhale. What is that stage? 218 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: This whole freaking compound must be infused with him? And yeah, 219 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: I can't find stage anywhere. And I've looked. Maybe it's 220 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: sage were smelling, Maybe it's money. So tell me how 221 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,599 Speaker 1: you perceived that push pull for Vivian of wanting to 222 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of stay in this kind of reverse snobbery space 223 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: wealth and then what she ends up learning about that 224 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: and about herself. Well, and I want to be really 225 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: sensitive to anything that I say that might sound in 226 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: any way like a judgment because I I, you're supposed 227 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: to be your character's advocate, and I am, of course, 228 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: um Vivian because of her beat, because she did entertainment 229 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: and finance. I think she she did want to be 230 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: a part of the club. So you think she was 231 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: kind of secretly pining for that. Yeah, I think you know, 232 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: she found her way into this world via these beats, 233 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: and so you have to ask yourself, well, why is 234 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: that where? And we were talking just talking about this 235 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: with with the pop mentality, I think she is into it. 236 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: I think she does like shiny things. That's very interesting, right, 237 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: And I do think that she, um, this is backstory 238 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: stuff that I built for myself. But like you know, 239 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: I do think that she was driven by the idea 240 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: that well, if I just cracked the code, they'll let 241 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: me in. And cracking the code is is the chasing 242 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: of the story. Let's what we watch in her job 243 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: is the cracking of the code. And that sounds a 244 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: lot like someone named Anna Delvin, so yes, and I 245 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: think that that's why she gets it right away. She goes, wait, 246 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: how did she do it? She went the back way 247 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: and I have been trying to go to right. She's 248 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: been trying to do it follow the rules exactly. And 249 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: so I had just in the playing of the Talia 250 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: scenes so much fun. We had so much fun with 251 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: the idea that she was starstruck she like genuinely probably 252 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: loves Talia's products and like probably loves his magazine. It 253 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: was almost like Talia found her on the street and 254 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: brought her home and said, let me just give you 255 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: something pretty to wear it. Yes, And I love the 256 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: idea that she was trying to pretend she wouldn't like, no, 257 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: this is a job. I'm pretending I'm really cool. I mean, 258 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: you know that the concept is like if you love 259 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: Rachel Ray or if you love Oprah, or if you 260 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: know what I think women love them, you know, like 261 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: she like. And so I love the idea of like 262 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: Vivian really trying to play down how like freaking giddy 263 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: she would. It was very fun to watch. And also 264 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: just the awkwardness and discomfort with which she walked into 265 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: the room after she put the calf down on. It 266 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: was almost like she had just put on this uniform 267 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: where she's thinking, Okay, this is I'm playing this part 268 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: now and I'm loving it. Yeah, And loving it, and 269 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: am I going to get in trouble? Like? Are my 270 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: boss is watching me somewhere? Am I going to get right? Yeah? 271 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: I mean there really is. And I've dealt with this myself, 272 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: this idea. You know, you can't take free lunches and 273 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: if someone's giving you a gift. I mean it's a 274 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: real line that that we have to follow in, but 275 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: it definitely gets blurred. That's what our shows about. And 276 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: you know she had to spend the night and that 277 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: is so what our shows about. Yep, yep. Another scene 278 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: that I really love that is actually not as much 279 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: about you as it is thematically about something important. Episode seven, 280 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: when we see Vivian madly writing her story the race 281 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: against time for her water to break or not to break, 282 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and Barry and mod are talking about Vivian's melee and 283 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: then the fracas with the story and the idea that 284 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, she didn't have the opportunity to mess up 285 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: and not have it impact her career. I'm and she's crazy. 286 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: She is not crazy. She has her reasons. So she 287 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: made one mistake in her career. Women don't get to 288 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: make mistakes. It was a big buck up. Anna Davie 289 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: and Harry Kenny doing that hushed tones. I'm so glad 290 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: you picked that out because it was so well done, 291 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: so well meant like they're just talking about somebody that 292 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: they care about, but their their characters. They're like, yeah, 293 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: let's let's be really real about this. But it's funny 294 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: because that character, who fancies himself very awoke and progressive 295 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: and he's very he doesn't realize that the privilege that 296 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: he has enjoyed that if that did happen to him, 297 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: he would never have had to think twice, he wouldn't 298 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: have been put on probation, he wouldn't have had to worry. 299 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: Am I ever going to work again? And we have 300 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: mods saying but women don't get to make mistakes and 301 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: that really puts a fine point on so much of 302 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: what's driving Vivian. And how did that inform your performance? Oh? 303 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: It was, it was so much. I mean it's right 304 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: there in the writing. Seana just and and our wonderful 305 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: writers just gave Vivian so much depth that like, I 306 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 1: would be remissed to not play all of it, you know, 307 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: like it's it's all to be played. And yeah, that 308 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: that that's so much of her drive. You know and 309 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: and I think the other thing is too, is like 310 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: with with that backstory of what happened before we meet 311 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: her in our program that we've uncover throughout. This is 312 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: what the con does. And I love in the fifth episode, um, 313 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: next episode we see it. It's a beautiful sequence where 314 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: we really feel the pit in your stomach that happens 315 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: when you find out that maybe you would do it. Yeah, 316 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: everything's cool. I just had a question about that. Guests, Sama, Anna, 317 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: who's leasing to any one? You know? I talked about that. 318 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: My dad's ever heard of her. Maybe she made inquiries 319 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people towards that place. But thanks, Charlie. 320 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: The reason betrayal like that is so bad is it 321 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: because it makes the person who put all of their 322 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: trust in somebody, it makes them doubt themselves. That's the 323 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: major harm. You start to mistrust that little voice, your instincts, Yes, 324 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: and that's all you've got. And so we're watching Vivian 325 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: just grasping at any sense of stability when it comes 326 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: to her own gut, and her own gut is like 327 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: also occupied by this brand new thing too, right, So, 328 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: actually speaking of her gut and the thing that she's 329 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: growing inside of her. The next thing I wanted to 330 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: talk to you about is a fantastic sequence where she's 331 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: giving birth and she's struggling and her husband, who knows 332 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: her best, says, tells the dtor Waite, I got this, 333 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: and he tells her you're failing, you're losing, And out 334 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: of all the sort of mantrass, she can tell herself 335 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: what is she invoke? But something from Anna delves saying 336 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: You're not special. I'm not special. Women have babies every day. 337 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: Walk me through how you think. In that moment, we 338 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: finally see all of this influence coalescing in her, even 339 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: though she's pushing Anna back all the time, but we 340 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: see that this that this person has seeped into her 341 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: consciousness in a way that maybe she is even surprised by. Yeah, 342 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: and that's I mean, you you just said it, and 343 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: that's that is for me. Something that I think is 344 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: so special about the show we made is really this 345 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: whole Annadelbi story. Yes, it's it's shiny, and it's interesting, 346 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: and it's societally compelling and all of that. I mean, 347 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: it really really is. And when you go to the core, 348 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: it's about relationships. It's about friendships, relationships. That's why this 349 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: whole thing is, you know, the social media of it, 350 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: that's about relationships, and we all have to understand where 351 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: we're at right now with how we relate to one another. 352 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: The idea that a journalist who's whole motivation to be 353 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: in front of another human being is to get the 354 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: most intimate parts of that person. Just because they asked, 355 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: bring your both circle. You know, that's a relationship. That 356 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: is a major relationship and you can't not be affected. 357 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's when we go on the subway and 358 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: a person smiles at us, or even these days, you 359 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: see it in their eyes because we're wearing masks. That 360 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: can affect your whole day, That can affect the whole 361 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: way you think about New York City that day because 362 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: somebody was kind on the subway. This is life. And 363 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: so when we get to that, really it's a it's 364 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: a climax of the baby part of the you know, 365 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: of the pregnancy. When we get to that extremely vulnerable moment, 366 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: in an irreplaceable moment in Vivian's life and we see 367 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:06,959 Speaker 1: that she's she has been so affected and it benefited her. 368 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: It helped her do the most important thing she had 369 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: to do, and it was meant as an insult in 370 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: the first places. We can only do this in ourt. 371 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: We can only do this in TV or or film 372 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: and storytelling because it's actually very difficult to put into 373 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: words unless you're seeing it shown before you. It's very true. 374 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: We're taking a short break, but please stay tuned. However, 375 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: one we're back. You talk about relationships, and one of 376 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: the more intriguing relationships in the series, which we don't 377 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: really get to explore too much, is the one between 378 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: Anna and her mom, and of course Viving, you know, 379 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: learned so much about Anna's back story and her trip 380 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: to Europe, and yet does she And yet I'm always 381 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: like wait, But because that's that, you know, she had 382 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: to have the grace to say, I'm not I'm not 383 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: digging anymore. Right, at the very least she got some context, yes, 384 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: for Anna and her back story. Her mother tells Vivian, 385 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: it is better to believe monsters make monsters. Who knows, 386 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: sometimes you have a child, like my evanent their soul 387 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: is your soul, and sometimes you have a child. She's 388 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: a stranger, and that you a stranger. Life coold, strange, 389 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: It's a sad scene, and you start to see in Vivian, 390 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: you know she's coming off the buzz of her story. 391 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: She's thinking like, Okay, I got my career back, I'm 392 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: getting the office. And you really start to see a 393 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: little sinking feeling in her that not that she did 394 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: something wrong to Anna, but there's so much more to this. 395 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: There's so much pain that needs to be unpacked, to 396 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: use our word, and at this point it's sort of 397 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: time for her to step away. Tell me how you 398 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: played that moment with that wonderful actress who played her mother, 399 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: and how did that inform for you the bigger meaning 400 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: of Anna Delvie. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, I'm even 401 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: thinking about it in a new way right now because 402 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: I'm like, that moment is also the moment where I 403 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: don't know if she realizes this, but the person playing 404 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: her that's me realize that this is a lot of 405 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: postpartum stuff. There's this mania that she's got to go 406 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: and do this. I thought about that that the effect 407 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: of having just she's breastfeeding and she's having to do 408 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: this after this traumatic physiological event, and then she gets 409 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: on a plane. I mean, that cannot be easy for 410 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,719 Speaker 1: her not easy, and they even talk about she and 411 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: she and Jack talked about it. We where why because 412 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: what if she's not fake? What if she's not the fake? Allis? 413 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: What if she's been telling the truth this whole time? 414 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: All of that money she showed up with the New 415 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: York where was that? From all of the rumors that 416 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: she might be laundering money, all the suspicious answers that 417 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: I got from her parents. This story could be bigger 418 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: than and it could be bigger than anyone knows. And 419 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: I I know the timing is bad, and she's like, 420 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: I gotta do what I gotta do. You know, there's 421 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: this there's it's a compulsion that she's following, and of 422 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: course it's also on the back of this other thing 423 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: that she birthed being out there in the world, and 424 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: she can't have any more control over it, right, which 425 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: is like exactly what you're terrified of all the time 426 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: when you have maybe you'renna have a kid, right like 427 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: or even then in the context of your life, when 428 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: you make a piece of art that you ultimately don't 429 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: have control over how it's received, how it's edited, how 430 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: it's packaged. So there must have been signed familiarity on 431 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: your part with that too, definitely, but like legit that 432 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: comes out so much in just being a new mother, 433 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: you know. And so I think that I do think 434 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: that that whole trip is a trip about new motherhood, 435 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: right because that scene that you're describing, you know, she 436 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: she's leaking. She's completely exposed to this other person who's 437 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: already gone through this you are a mother a couple 438 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: of months. Now, she's exposed as a human, as a 439 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: person who has flaws and forgot to do these things 440 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: like you know, change her paths and like I didn't 441 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: realize what time it was and all that, And so 442 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 1: there's this idea of also her going, you know, I 443 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: might not be up to this right now? Mm hmm, 444 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: Like am I going to actually discover all the things 445 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: I want to discover about these people? Am I going 446 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: to bug them more ruin their lives and even more 447 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: expose them even more? And is it worth it? At 448 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: that point? Is it worth it? And also I'm raw 449 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: as can be and where in their shirt now? Like 450 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: who's exposing who now? Right? So I think there's a 451 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: bit of just having to pull back on the reins 452 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: in a way and just be like let's everybody just 453 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: go back to their corners for a second. Yeah. And 454 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: also the fact that she's connecting with this person who 455 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: she doesn't know, but she's connecting with her as a mother. 456 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: You know that a few weeks prior they wouldn't have 457 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: had that in common. And now she is thinking and 458 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: seeing the world differently because of this newfound sense of 459 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: of maybe rawness. Like you said, yeah, yeah, it's complex. 460 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: It is very complex. And the final sting I'd love 461 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: to discuss, of course, is between Vivian and Anna in prison, 462 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: their last interaction. This is it, this is the last 463 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: time we're going to see each other. I'm saying, I'm sorry, 464 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: I'm asking you no, stop, Vivian. You're not to my 465 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: friend when not some giggling idiot to be a fun whatever. 466 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: I don't like you. You have terrible shoes. This was 467 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: a transaction. We had to deal. No, it's okay. You 468 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: minds good and your pot to the deal. You said 469 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: too with Magma famous and you did. Who's more famous 470 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: right now than on a Delvey. I would love to know, 471 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: first of all, how you and Julia you played the 472 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,239 Speaker 1: scenes so beautifully, what you talked about beforehand and what 473 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: you were trying to accomplish together in that moment, because 474 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: it's such a hard tone to strike in doing scenes 475 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: with Julia. I think we approach a scene very similarly, 476 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, in that we let the text tell us 477 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: where it goes and we take it from there and 478 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: letting the text lead us. But then of course we 479 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: we did kind of look at each other in the 480 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: eye and go, oh, this is our last thing, this 481 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: is our last thing to do. So there was a 482 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: bit of I appreciated this, and I'm so happy you 483 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: know'll miss you and you know. And was it odd 484 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: too that all of your interactions were in the prison setting. 485 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: I mean you obviously there were some courthouse scenes, but 486 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: really the thrust of your entire her connection with this 487 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: character is the two of you sitting in front of 488 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: each other. Yes, it was strange and wonderful. It was 489 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: strange wonderful because it's it's what you sign up for 490 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: an acting class, like just to sit in front of 491 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: your scene partner and try to get the thing you 492 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: need from them with the text. Like that's literally what 493 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: you sign up for as an actor. And we got 494 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: to do that. We got to do it, and it 495 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: was so fun and yeah, that scene we we kind 496 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: of played around with how much how much they were 497 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: feeling and how much they were willing to show their feelings, 498 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: and you know, it was there was a bit of 499 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: choreography that we all director included, like we we all 500 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: sort of were fine tuning with every with every take. 501 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: Having lived through this character and the story. From the 502 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: perspective of Vivian, what do you think are the lessons 503 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: that you feel can be gleaned from this story? Where 504 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: do you think she succeeds and where do you think 505 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: she fails, if at all. I think what we did 506 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: talk about already with regards to relationship. I think the 507 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: idea that we don't get to compartmentalize as much as 508 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: we think, you know, and that really too pretend that 509 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: we can can really limit us. I think that if 510 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: we can know that everybody deserves respect and everybody deserves 511 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: their story told, and that that will affect the storyteller 512 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: as well, and that that's a unique perspective. We get choices, 513 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: we get choices about how to tell a story. I 514 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: think that that gives us a better sense of responsibility, hopefully, 515 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: and I think that that's what Vivian sort of is 516 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: discovering in in real time for herself. You know, I 517 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: think that that certainly she she does fail in a 518 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: lot of ways of just maybe not being aware of 519 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: herself and aware of what's actually going on with her 520 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: instead of thinking about the outside all the time. And 521 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: I think that she ultimately succeeds in I mean, obviously 522 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: in getting the story she wants right, of course, that 523 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: was the end goal, right, and all of her redemption 524 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: and all that, but also just on a on a 525 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: deeper personal level, I think she probably succeeds in understanding 526 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: like that heart has a huge capacity and that it's 527 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: not just reserved for who the brain says it's reserved for. Yeah, 528 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: that's surprising to her, but also got to be a 529 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: success for her because I think it's going to make 530 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: her better at what she does. And it feeds indirectly 531 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: to something Jessica shared with us, which is this the 532 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: fallacy of journalists having to be objective. No one can 533 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: ever be totally objective. Everyone brings a point of view 534 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: to a story, but it's sort of that reserving of 535 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: judgment and just being open, which sounds like is where 536 00:30:54,400 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: you left Vivian as her performer yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, well, Anne, Uh, 537 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. I know you're 538 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: a busy woman. We really appreciate you sharing such insightful 539 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: thoughts with us, and we congratulate you on your work 540 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: in the show. Thank you, Thank you so much for 541 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: taking the time. Thank you, thank you so much for listening. 542 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: Next time, I'll be back with actor Alexis Floyd, who 543 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: plays Anna's rider die Nef. Alexis offers some powerful insights 544 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: into her character and tells us what it was like 545 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: to meet and befriend the real Nef. I remember one 546 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,959 Speaker 1: of the first things Shanda said to me so simply, 547 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: was I love this woman. You know. In the character 548 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: description she describes her as Barack Obama meets. Wow, that's 549 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: a tall order, Alexis. You're telling me. If you're enjoying 550 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: the show, subscribe, share with your friends, rate, and leave 551 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: us a review. All that good stuff. And if you 552 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: have it finished binging Shonda lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, 553 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: please go do that. We don't want to spoil it 554 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: for you. Inventing Anna, the official podcast is executive produced 555 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. 556 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: Our producer and editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show 557 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: is produced and hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt Inventing Anna. 558 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: The official podcast is a production of Shonda land Audio 559 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 560 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 561 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.