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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kristen, I'm Molly. Today Molly and I are going

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Speaker 1: to do something we really I don't think we've ever

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Speaker 1: done before UM, which is offer up a little warning

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Speaker 1: before we get into this podcast, which is about rape

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Speaker 1: kits UM and rape kits are for anyone who doesn't know,

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Speaker 1: rape kits are the medical exams that rape victims will

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Speaker 1: get UM after they are sexually assaulted UM, which you

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Speaker 1: meant to collect DNA evidence against the rapist. And while

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be you know, it's not adult content,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be excessively graphic, but it is

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Speaker 1: rape is not an easy topic to discuss. So we

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Speaker 1: just wanted to kind of provide a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a trigger warning for you guys if if this is

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Speaker 1: not going to be something that's going to be easy

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Speaker 1: for UM for you to listen to, but we did

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it today because I think it's

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Speaker 1: really important for both men and women to be aware

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Speaker 1: of what exactly happens can happen at least um, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to um happen after someone is sexually assaulted

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Speaker 1: in what actually goes into rape kits, and also why

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Speaker 1: we need to as a general public be more aware

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Speaker 1: of how they're processed or in a lot of cases,

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Speaker 1: not being processed. And a few more notes about terminology

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Speaker 1: before we get underway. Uh, this is coming from the

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Speaker 1: same Development operation guide we're going to talk about saying

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Speaker 1: a little later, but it stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner,

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Speaker 1: and so we're reading a little bit about their program,

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Speaker 1: and they had a few clarifications on terminology which are

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Speaker 1: also going to be sort of the the guidelines for

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Speaker 1: us today. We probably will say she in relation to

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Speaker 1: rape victims more often than he, but we are aware

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Speaker 1: that there are men who are raped. The legal definitions

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Speaker 1: of rape, sexual assault, and abuse vary from state to state,

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Speaker 1: and so we might be using rape or sexual assault interchangeably, um,

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Speaker 1: but we do know that those are different. And another

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Speaker 1: distinction in terminology that this guide made was that between

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Speaker 1: victim and survivor. And we'll probably say a victim because

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with rape kits and the immediate aftermath of

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Speaker 1: UM a rape and you know, this guide made a

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Speaker 1: really good point that that journey to becoming a survivor

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Speaker 1: takes later. It's probably takes time. It's not going to

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Speaker 1: be accomplished within the hour that you're you know, waiting

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Speaker 1: for a rape kit. So those are just a few

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Speaker 1: notes on vocabulary to clear up this portion the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and now we'll get into what is actually in a

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Speaker 1: rape kit. Yeah, And the reason why I felt like

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Speaker 1: this was really important for us to talk about is

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Speaker 1: because while you know, we hear I think it's pretty

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Speaker 1: common knowledge that if if you're raped, you then go

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Speaker 1: to you know, go to the hospital and you get

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Speaker 1: a rape kit. But I don't know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people and myself included, are aware of what exactly

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Speaker 1: is involved in UM in a rape kit. And because

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Speaker 1: it actually comes in, I mean it is a packet

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Speaker 1: of things that are you know, sealed off. And there

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Speaker 1: was UM actually a photo essay which sounds strange, but

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Speaker 1: UM there was a photo essay on the from the

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Speaker 1: Washington City Paper just documenting, you know, kind of taking

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Speaker 1: apart the different parts of UM of a rape kit.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know it really kind of it brings

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Speaker 1: it all home once once you realize the amount of

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Speaker 1: kind of detail that that goes into all of this.

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Speaker 1: So what is in a rape kit? UM? A lot

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Speaker 1: of times, UH you will have just basic instructions for

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Speaker 1: UM what to do. They'll have separate envelopes for different

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Speaker 1: types of samples. For instance, you'll usually have you know,

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Speaker 1: a saliva sample that will be taken. They'll take samples

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Speaker 1: also from uh, your inner labia. UM, they will take

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Speaker 1: pubic hare samples. So there are bags and sheets for

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Speaker 1: collecting the evidence. Obviously, there are swabs. There's always the

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Speaker 1: comb in there, and that comb is for your pubic care. UM.

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Speaker 1: They're also envelopes of course to put the evidence in

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Speaker 1: their blood collection devices and then documentation forms. So basically

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Speaker 1: what what happens is that you know, all these swabs

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Speaker 1: and all these samples are taken to try and find

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Speaker 1: any trace of DNA that the rape is left behind

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Speaker 1: on the body. Basically, at this point, the woman's body

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Speaker 1: is a crime scene because the evidence of the crime

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Speaker 1: is on her, and so it's a matter of going

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Speaker 1: through and collecting it and putting it into these envelopes

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Speaker 1: so that it can m b used, so that can

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Speaker 1: be tested and used in court if necessary to prove

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Speaker 1: the crime happened. And UM, this is coming from the

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Speaker 1: Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, which UM has a

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Speaker 1: lot of resources on its website. UH. And they point

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Speaker 1: out that, you know, this is a medical for forensic

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Speaker 1: exam that might involve a head to toe physical exam,

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Speaker 1: including obviously the genital area, and that can include anything

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Speaker 1: from you know, just collecting blood, urine, hair and UM,

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Speaker 1: body fluid samples, photo documentation, UM, which I didn't you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of didn't even occur to me before I read this,

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Speaker 1: collection of clothing, collection of any kind of physical evidence

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Speaker 1: that might have transferred onto the victim from the rape scene.

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Speaker 1: And UH. And that's why UH people will tell you

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Speaker 1: to you know, if you're sexually assaulted, if possible, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't take a shower, don't go to the bathroom if

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Speaker 1: you have to do, not change your clothes because, as

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Speaker 1: you said, Molly, though, after a sexual assault happens, the

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Speaker 1: victim's body is the crime scene. And you want to

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Speaker 1: if you're going to go and get a rape kit,

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Speaker 1: because it's again it's a woman's choice whether or not

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Speaker 1: to go get the rape kit. UM. You want to

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Speaker 1: preserve that evidence as much as possible. Now, Kristen, you

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Speaker 1: brought up the issue of choice, and I think one

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Speaker 1: interesting I think I learned about rape kits in this

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Speaker 1: research is that you can go have the examination done

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Speaker 1: and still not press charges or make a case against

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Speaker 1: the abuser if you don't want to. A lot of

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Speaker 1: women don't come forward because they're scared of repercussions and uh,

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Speaker 1: they may not want to have the police involved. What

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Speaker 1: they've done thanks to the Violence Against Women Act, is

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Speaker 1: to make it so you can still have the rape

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Speaker 1: kit completed, that medical examination, and you don't have to

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Speaker 1: turn that evidence over to the police if you don't

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Speaker 1: want to. UM, And you can also remain completely anonymous.

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Speaker 1: They will assign you a number instead of using your name,

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Speaker 1: and that's referred to as a Jane Doe rape kit.

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Speaker 1: And obviously there's also going to be some ste testing,

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Speaker 1: pregnancy tests, You're gonna have an HIV test down the line. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's all separate, so you still, you know, people should

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Speaker 1: still get themselves checked out after a rape. This is

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Speaker 1: sort of what you can do. In addition, if you

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Speaker 1: want the evidence documented, right, UM, And then I think

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Speaker 1: we should also bring up the point that UM also,

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Speaker 1: thanks to the Violence Against Women Act UH, states have

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Speaker 1: to ensure that victims have access to rape kits free

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Speaker 1: of charge or with a full reimbursement because there have

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Speaker 1: been you know, some UH controversies about states possibly making

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Speaker 1: UM rape victims pay for rape kits, but that is

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Speaker 1: completely illegal. Yeah, I mean, it's it's like asking a

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Speaker 1: person whose family member has been murdered to pay for

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Speaker 1: the fingerprints. And at the same time too, the Violent

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Speaker 1: skinst Women Act is also built in some of that

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Speaker 1: protection for victims who might not want to go to

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Speaker 1: the police. They are allowed to have more time to

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Speaker 1: decide whether or not to pursue a case, whether or

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Speaker 1: not they want to go forward UM to UH to

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Speaker 1: the police and pursue, you know, some kind of criminal conviction.

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Speaker 1: And depending on where the person is, there will be

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Speaker 1: different time periods for when you know you can you

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Speaker 1: have to make that decision about whether you're going to

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Speaker 1: pursue a case the statutor limitations. So now we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the same program sexual Assault

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Speaker 1: Nurse Examiner, and how that person can assist you through

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Speaker 1: the rape kit process. Because this program developed in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies because there are a few issues with how

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Speaker 1: rape victims were being treated when they came into emergency

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Speaker 1: rooms for that collection of evidence. For one thing, if

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Speaker 1: the emergency room was busy, they were out in public

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Speaker 1: in a waiting room, perhaps not being seen because there

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Speaker 1: were things like gunshot wounds and the other uh you know,

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Speaker 1: injuries like that coming in and maybe while you can't

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Speaker 1: see the injury that takes place after rape, it's no

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Speaker 1: less severe. So they wanted to get the victims back

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Speaker 1: there faster, especially because you, like Kristen said, you can't eat, drink,

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Speaker 1: your name, change your clothes. Well your advised, yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: advised not to. And because it is a criminal investigation,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the doctors and nurses weren't properly trained and how

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Speaker 1: to do that investigation. You know, the pictures we saw

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Speaker 1: of the rape kid did show how it was very

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Speaker 1: sort of intuitive what you were supposed to do next

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Speaker 1: and how you would take the the samples. But the

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Speaker 1: doctors and nurses you know, may not have had the

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Speaker 1: best training on how to use uh that material. And

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Speaker 1: they also were concerned because rape victims emotional needs were

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Speaker 1: all too often overlooked because you know, if you've got

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Speaker 1: the wrong person who makes the wrong crack. It's just,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's devastating if you've got someone who is

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to ask you questions and it feels invasive,

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Speaker 1: it feels like they're blaming you. That was happening. So

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Speaker 1: that was UM sort of what set the same program

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Speaker 1: into motion. Yeah, And the first same program was established

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Speaker 1: in this Tennessee in nineteen seventy six, and the second

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Speaker 1: one that happened in Minneapolis in nineteen seventy seven. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't until nineteen ninety one when the Journal of

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Speaker 1: Emergency Nursing published the first list of sane programs, with

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Speaker 1: only twenty programs listed. To me, it's baffling that in

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Speaker 1: nine Molly, we only had twenty programs twenty same programs

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Speaker 1: in the US, and five years later that number had

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Speaker 1: grown to eighty six and today there are more. However, UM,

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Speaker 1: sane programs are in battle because it's not uh, it's

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Speaker 1: not very well funded. UM. Obviously, becoming a sexual assault

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Speaker 1: nurse examiner requires extra training and UM it's also probably

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Speaker 1: one of the hardest jobs that someone could select. But

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Speaker 1: it's so these women are so important and they are

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Speaker 1: so needed because without them, you know, the the issue

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Speaker 1: of you know, women going and getting rape kids would

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Speaker 1: just be would be so much harder and uh for

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Speaker 1: for prosecuting UM alleged rapists. So to clarify, once a

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Speaker 1: sexual assault nurse examiners on the scene, she is responsible

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Speaker 1: for conducting that evidence gathering process with the rape kit.

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Speaker 1: She'll do the STD prevention test, she'll evaluate the rest

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Speaker 1: for pregnancy UM, and she'll also be a point person

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Speaker 1: if you need referrals for additional support or care. The

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Speaker 1: person who can help you figure out where you're gonna

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Speaker 1: sleep that night, and the person who can help you

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Speaker 1: decide if you do want to report it to the police. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that person, the saying, will help you kind of uh

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Speaker 1: explore all your options about doing that and service a

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Speaker 1: support person if you decide that you do want to report.

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Speaker 1: Now there are places where you have to places and

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Speaker 1: cases where you have to where there's mandatory reporting. So

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Speaker 1: if you do choose to report UM, the rape kit

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Speaker 1: is used as evidence in UM in a rape trial.

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Speaker 1: But here's the big thing. Here's the big problem with

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Speaker 1: rape kits, and which is why one of the big

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Speaker 1: reasons why Molly and I wanted to talk about today

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Speaker 1: because there's been a lot of controversy over whether or

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Speaker 1: not UM or over what happens to that rape kit

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Speaker 1: between the time you know, a victim goes to the

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Speaker 1: hospital and has it performed and all the evidence is

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Speaker 1: collected and UM the kit and whether or not it

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Speaker 1: is ever even processed because the reason why it needs

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Speaker 1: to be processed is for DNA evidence. But a report

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Speaker 1: from Human Rights Watch suggests that eight percent of rape

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Speaker 1: kits may have never been examined UM. And this is

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Speaker 1: in the state of Illinois, Okay, but this has been

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Speaker 1: a huge problem, particularly in l a um and New

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Speaker 1: York has kind of been heralded as the you know,

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Speaker 1: the standard for actually processing rape kits, but in so

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Speaker 1: many large metropolitan areas there is a huge backlog of

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Speaker 1: rape kits that are simply never processed. Right. It costs

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Speaker 1: about a thousand dollars to process one rape kit because

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Speaker 1: you've got the people who do the work, the processing

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Speaker 1: fees in the lab, and these programs are underfunded. And

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Speaker 1: you know, this article about the Illinois situation is data

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Speaker 1: July seven, two thou ten, so it's this month. And

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Speaker 1: the larger issue is that you know, you can use

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Speaker 1: that evidence to catch rapists and to punish them. And

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Speaker 1: now without that extra step, some some rapists are still

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Speaker 1: out there waiting to attack again. And just to give

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Speaker 1: you some numbers, in the case of Los Angeles, they

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Speaker 1: have more than two thousand rape kits and the pipeline

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Speaker 1: waiting testing UM and they are struggling to complete results

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Speaker 1: within a year after the request is made. And nationwide

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Speaker 1: crime lab saw their DNA testing backlog double from the

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Speaker 1: beginning to the end of two thousand five, according to

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Speaker 1: report from the Census of Publicly funded Crime Laboratories. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: to me, this is very disturbing because we have all

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Speaker 1: of these women who are going in and getting rape

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Speaker 1: kits after attacks and yet um, all of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that very invasive process is kind of feutile in a

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Speaker 1: way if the DNA evidence is never even processed. There

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Speaker 1: was an article in the New York Times, and not

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Speaker 1: to be fearmongering about this, but I think this anecdote

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Speaker 1: UM from the New York Times is really telling because

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Speaker 1: there was a detective with the l a p D.

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Speaker 1: Who collected a rape kit from a forty three year

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Speaker 1: old legal secretary who was raped in her home as

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Speaker 1: her son slept in the other room, and um, the

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Speaker 1: just the way the rape happened, the detective felt like

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Speaker 1: this was a serial rapist, and so in an attempt

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Speaker 1: to track this person down, he wanted to get this

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Speaker 1: rape kit UM process as quickly as possible. So he

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Speaker 1: drove the department's crime lab, but was told to expect

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Speaker 1: a processing delay of more than a year. Then he

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Speaker 1: drives three fifty miles north to the States DNA testing

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Speaker 1: lab and same Sacramento, but the backlog prevented testing for

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Speaker 1: four months, and during that time, the rapists, the same rapists,

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Speaker 1: broken to the homes of a pregnant woman a seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old girl and sexually assaulted both of them. So

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, this is so important for people

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Speaker 1: to be aware of the fact that because of um

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Speaker 1: shoddy federal funding and also a breakdown on state and

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Speaker 1: county level, UM, these rape kits are not not being

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Speaker 1: reported and crimes are happening even more as a result

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Speaker 1: of that. Now you mentioned the federal funding, Kryst, and

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Speaker 1: let me explain a little bit about that. The government

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Speaker 1: gives cities and states grants through their local law enforcement

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Speaker 1: agencies to process the rape kits. UM. They don't require

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Speaker 1: states to report their efforts. So that's one problem is

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Speaker 1: that there's sort of a lack of accountability. But also

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Speaker 1: there's a stipulation on the funds that UM the funds

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Speaker 1: can't be used to hire permanent staff. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: because when I was reading this, I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, if people want to find jobs, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like these testing centers really need people who have experience

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Speaker 1: in this. But you know, they can't bring people on

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Speaker 1: full time to do the strape kit. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: that is disturbing. But there are New York legislators who

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Speaker 1: are attempting to, uh to fix those rules. There's legislation

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Speaker 1: being put on the floor right now, right And I also,

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Speaker 1: I mean, then that's going on the federal level, and

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Speaker 1: I also point out that there is definitely a breakdown

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Speaker 1: as that money trickles through the system. For instance, then

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Speaker 1: York Times also reported that UM in Los Angeles, the

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Speaker 1: police department has spent less than half of a four

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Speaker 1: point four million dollars in federal money it received from

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Speaker 1: two thousand four to two thousand eight UM to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, to just to support these uh these saying

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Speaker 1: and rape kit UM programs, So you know, even in

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Speaker 1: cases where they are getting money, you know they're not UM,

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Speaker 1: whether they're just hamstrung or not. UH, it's not being

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Speaker 1: it's not being used properly. So that is something that

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Speaker 1: you can do if you have an interest in UH

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Speaker 1: this issue and the prevention and of rape is to

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Speaker 1: work with local law enforcement, local politicians to ensure that

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Speaker 1: funding for rape kits and they're processing is used appropriately

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Speaker 1: UM not subject to cuts. And another thing that is

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Speaker 1: subject to cuts you mentioned this earlier, Kristen, is the

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Speaker 1: same program we talked about what a hard position it is,

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Speaker 1: but even people who choose to become sexual assault nurse

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Speaker 1: examiners are often thwarted because the funding make it cut

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Speaker 1: or because of these recent Supreme Court cases that are

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Speaker 1: limiting UH says abilities to testify in court. Right because

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Speaker 1: obviously the primary duty of a sexual assault nurse examiner

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Speaker 1: is to collect that evidence UM to kind of guide

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Speaker 1: sexual assault and rape victims UM through that that process

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Speaker 1: immediately following the incident. But at the same time, it's

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Speaker 1: also their role to UM serve as expert testimony on

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Speaker 1: anatomy and tissue UH in rape trials However, a recent

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Speaker 1: UM Supreme Court ruling in the case of Crawford versus

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Speaker 1: Washington UM has affected a saint's ability to repeat hearsay

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Speaker 1: statements made to her by patients UM who might not

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Speaker 1: be able to testify on their own. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of these nurse examiners are very concerned about the legal

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Speaker 1: ramifications of Crawford view Washington because that might eliminate UM

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Speaker 1: or I guess nullify their testimony, which could be instrumental

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Speaker 1: in UM bringing UH these criminals to justice. Right, as

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Speaker 1: Kristen said, if you make a statement outside of court

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Speaker 1: that can be used is hearsay, but statements record and

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Speaker 1: medical records are admissible. UM. But what happens here is

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Speaker 1: sort of a breakdown. If you've got a victim who's

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Speaker 1: telling her story to the saying that's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: mix of the medical stuff and also just the personal stuff,

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Speaker 1: and they're saying that, you know, doctors are kind of

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Speaker 1: exempt from this hearsay thing because people don't lie to

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Speaker 1: their doctors, And there's this assumption that people will lie

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Speaker 1: to a saying or that that um, you know, a

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Speaker 1: woman's story shouldn't be you know, thought of as evidence.

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Speaker 1: According to the saying, and you know, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: disturbing that UM, one scene was testifying that the injuries

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Speaker 1: suffered by the woman were you know, evidence of rape,

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Speaker 1: and that was thrown out because the jury was the

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Speaker 1: jury's job to make that decision of whether those injuries

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Speaker 1: were a sign of rape. So it's it's been very

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Speaker 1: interesting to see these court cases and quite frustrating, I think,

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Speaker 1: because it's almost like the saying is being punished for

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Speaker 1: serving in that close confident role. UM they are a

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Speaker 1: medical professional. But also you know, if if you've just

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Speaker 1: been attacked, you want to talk about it, and they're

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Speaker 1: saying basically that that talking about it almost disqualifies a

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Speaker 1: saying from further testimony. And to me, that's even more

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Speaker 1: troubling because first of all, you know, it's rapists such

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Speaker 1: a difficult UM crime to talk about, even from a

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Speaker 1: statistics perspective, because assessing the actual incidents rate is pretty

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Speaker 1: much impossible because it goes so unreported, and it's also

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Speaker 1: one of the least prosecuted crimes. UH. This UH same

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Speaker 1: Development and Operation Guide points out that only four percent

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Speaker 1: of rapists go to jail either as a result of

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Speaker 1: a guilty flee or guilty verdicts UM. So just hindering

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Speaker 1: that that legal process even more by limiting what UM

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Speaker 1: what saints can and can't say in court, I think

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Speaker 1: is UM is very troubling. Right. So again, it's something

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Speaker 1: you can keep your eye on on a local level.

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Speaker 1: If you're community has the same program, you can look

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Speaker 1: for ways to support that. So again, while you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about rape kits is not the lightest conversation UM

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Speaker 1: that we could bring up, I do think it's incredibly

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Speaker 1: important because as women and as men, I think it's

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Speaker 1: good to be armed with this kind of information because

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Speaker 1: hopefully none of our listeners out there will ever have

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Speaker 1: to go through the process of getting a rape kit.

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Speaker 1: But and why, But I think it's important to know

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Speaker 1: what goes into it and all of the issues surrounding it,

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Speaker 1: because it is a very intensive process to go through,

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Speaker 1: especially when it is immediately following um, you know, very

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Speaker 1: horrifying crime committed on your body. UM. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's great too and necessary for us to arm ourselves

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Speaker 1: with this kind of information to be better supports for

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Speaker 1: victims and survivors out there. And I just want to

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Speaker 1: give a shout out to the National Sexual Hotline UM

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Speaker 1: which is one eight six five six HOPE and also

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Speaker 1: the Rape and Incest National Networks website that has a

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Speaker 1: lot of good resources. If UM, you know, if this

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Speaker 1: is something that you want to learn more about, UM,

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Speaker 1: if you have been sexually assaulted, if you know you

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Speaker 1: have a friend or someone you're in a relationship with

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Speaker 1: who has been sexually assaulted and you don't know what

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Speaker 1: to do, there's so many resources out there UM that

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Speaker 1: you can that you can track down. So that's it,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well, let's do a little listener, ma'n before

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Speaker 1: I wrap it up. We've got one from Annie in

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong, and she writes that my grandmother had her

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Speaker 1: feet bound when she was a child for two years

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Speaker 1: and the words my mom, she rebelled stopped finding it

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Speaker 1: at an unknown age. My grandma then somehow walked with

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Speaker 1: her husband and her mongolia and promptly gave birth to

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Speaker 1: six children. However, if you asked her if she ever

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Speaker 1: had her foot bound, she would say, oh, no, no no.

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Speaker 1: But if you ask any of her children her husband,

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Speaker 1: the answer be a firm yes. Even though she's a bell,

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Speaker 1: she still favors small feet and hands on her girls.

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Speaker 1: Last week when I visit her, which I do every year,

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Speaker 1: she held my hands and bit every finger with her

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Speaker 1: aby something year old teeth. It's a sign of affection.

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Speaker 1: She does it every time I visit. She said that

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Speaker 1: it's good that I don't have my mom's monkey feet

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Speaker 1: and long, bony monkey like hands. And it's not only her.

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Speaker 1: My family still sees having small feet and hands proferably plump,

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Speaker 1: as being blessed, as would mean that the possessor wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have had such a hard life. That is how my

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Speaker 1: hands and feet become a topic of discussion whenever we

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Speaker 1: have family gatherings. So we hope to hear from you

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00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: as well. Email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works

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00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: dot com. You can follow us on Twitter and we

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Speaker 1: us on Facebook, and as always, you can check out

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Speaker 1: our blog during the week. You can find it at

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. For more, are on this

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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our

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Speaker 1: blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page.

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