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Speaker 1: Something unexpected happened after I told you the story of

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Speaker 1: a man convicted of murdering his own wife.

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Speaker 2: I am one hundred percent innocent.

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Speaker 3: That means someone else killed in my wife.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't heard Season one of Bone Valley, you

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Speaker 1: might want to go back and listen. It's the story

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Speaker 1: of Leo Schofield, who spent thirty six years in prison

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Speaker 1: for a crime he swears he did not commit.

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Speaker 2: I just want justice for my dead wife. That's what

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Speaker 2: I want.

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Speaker 1: After investigating his case for years, I'm convinced he's telling

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Speaker 1: the truth because I also met the one man who

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Speaker 1: says he knows for sure that Leo is innocent.

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Speaker 4: I'm saying he didn't do it, that's what I mean.

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Speaker 4: And he didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott told me in terrifying detail how he was

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Speaker 1: the one who killed Michelle Schofield.

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Speaker 4: So she gave me a ride, and that's one of them.

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Speaker 4: I guess I lost it Dan and she went to

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Speaker 4: screaming and panicing and stuff.

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Speaker 1: When I first learned about Jeremy Scott, I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to know any more than I had. Here was a

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Speaker 1: man with a history of extraordinary violence. He was impulsive,

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Speaker 1: and volatile, attacking random citizens and teenage girls on the outside,

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Speaker 1: and cellmates, guards and nurses while locked behind bars. I'll

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Speaker 1: admit at first I saw Jeremy as sort of a monster.

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Speaker 1: It was Leo, of all people who changed my mind. Leo,

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Speaker 1: whose wife was murdered by this man, was able to

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Speaker 1: see something in Jeremy that I couldn't.

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Speaker 3: And I was looking for this creature that you know,

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Speaker 3: I couldn't. I could hate that, I could I could

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Speaker 3: detest that, could be repulsed by and vindicated in all

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Speaker 3: of it. And then you see him and what is he?

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Speaker 3: He's a broken individual, broken vessel, someone who's never known

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Speaker 3: what it is to be loved. My prayer is that

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Speaker 3: somehow he comes to know love that gives him some

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Speaker 3: kind of peace.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy was trying to tell me and anyone who would

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Speaker 1: listen the truth that he was the guilty one, not Leo.

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Speaker 4: I've been trying to help him and doing everything I could.

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Speaker 1: In season one of Bone Valley, I told you the

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Speaker 1: story of a man fighting to prove his innocence. This

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Speaker 1: season the story of a man trying to prove his

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Speaker 1: own guilt and the unlikely collection of people who heard

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Speaker 1: Jeremy confess of nowhere step forward to help him make

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Speaker 1: things right.

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Speaker 2: So I spoke to Jeremy yesterday.

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Speaker 5: You know when I try to encourage him to stay

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Speaker 5: out of trouble, and I would.

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Speaker 2: Tell him because I did love him. I did love Jeremy.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until you knew him a little bit, right,

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Speaker 1: I just knew him as a kid.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Gilbert King Home, I'm the son of Jeremy and Scott.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott confessed and the state of Florida doesn't believe him.

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Speaker 1: These are the stories of the people who do.

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Speaker 2: When y'all wanted to talk to me, before I tried,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't do it. I never talked to anybody about

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Speaker 2: any of this. I couldn't see here. A year ago,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't do it. I could do it today.

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Speaker 7: Everything in life takes effect, you know, Like I don't

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Speaker 7: want to hide nothing. Everything I say I want everybody

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Speaker 7: to hear, Like like, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 7: I'm literally a son of a killer.

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Speaker 8: Do you, my maness, love to have my feet sorru

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Speaker 8: steps sorn in this vastity? Uh see relation.

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Speaker 9: Outreach dezhday stuff.

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Speaker 1: So Boom Valley Season two Jeremy Chapter one, you told

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Speaker 1: me No. One morning in the fall of twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: I woke up to a flood of text messages, a

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Speaker 1: mist call, and a voicemail that came in at one am.

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Speaker 6: Hi, Gilbert King. This is Justin Allen. I was born

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Speaker 6: on March nineteen eighty nine. I'm the son of Jamie Allens.

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Speaker 6: Her name is to be Chaney Allen and the son

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Speaker 6: of Jeremylyn Scott.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy's son wanted to talk to me.

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Speaker 6: Maybe he just called me that please.

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Speaker 1: I texted him back right away and we started chatting.

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Speaker 1: His messages felt urgent. He just finished listening to his

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Speaker 1: father confessed to murder. Justin wrote, sorry for getting excited

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Speaker 1: and talking so much. I've never had a chance to

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Speaker 1: talk about my dad. And I'm thirty four.

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Speaker 7: Hello, Hey, Justin, Hey, it's Gilbert.

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Speaker 6: How are you.

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Speaker 7: I'm pretty good.

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Speaker 2: How you doing. I'm doing good.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry I missed you last night.

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Speaker 3: I know it was it was late.

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Speaker 8: I was listening the.

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Speaker 7: Whole time I woke up. I was a little crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I could imagine it. I mean one of the

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Speaker 1: first of a long list of things Justin wants to

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Speaker 1: talk about is actually not his dad, it's Leo. Justin

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Speaker 1: has listened to our podcast, done all these sleepless calculations,

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Speaker 1: and he's come to this.

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Speaker 2: Conclusion with the Oh Leo situation.

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Speaker 7: If you really stop and think about it, I pretty

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Speaker 7: much owe him my life.

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Speaker 1: If Jeremy had gone to jail instead of Leo, Justin

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Speaker 1: would have never been conceived.

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Speaker 7: Something about it. The murder was in nineteen eighty seven, right, right, Okay,

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Speaker 7: Leo ended up taking the hit from my dad. But

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Speaker 7: within that time, my dad was free, you know, and

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Speaker 7: he was still with my mom and they had me.

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Speaker 7: So if the cops and everything would have done their

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Speaker 7: job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I

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Speaker 7: would have never existed.

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Speaker 1: While we're on the phone, I realized Justin is with

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Speaker 1: his own son.

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry, I'm holding I'm holding my boy right now,

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Speaker 7: and it's pacing back and forth and not a lot

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Speaker 7: on my mind. Yeah, yeah, here, hold on, here's some grims.

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Speaker 7: He wants the color now.

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Speaker 2: His birthday was yesterday, oh sweet, two years old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he just He tells me he's raising his son

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Speaker 1: with his girlfriend Ariel, who also has three young daughters

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Speaker 1: from a prior relationship.

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Speaker 7: That's how I look at it. They're my girls because

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Speaker 7: I take care of him with my girl.

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Speaker 1: This is why his voicemail came in so late at night.

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Speaker 1: He's incredibly busy. He works the night shift as a

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Speaker 1: supermarket manager and during the day he's taking care of

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Speaker 1: the kids while Ariels at work.

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Speaker 7: My boy two years old, and I'll talk about him

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Speaker 7: walking and trying to talk now and everything else. He

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Speaker 7: likes supermonsters. You know, I'm trying to teach him right.

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Speaker 7: And this is all thanks to Leo taking the fucking

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Speaker 7: hit for my dad.

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Speaker 1: Justin tells me he feels immense guilt about Leo Schofield.

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Speaker 10: If I'm able to help Leo, it'll make me feel

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Speaker 10: uncomfortable about myself because I feel guilty even being alive.

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Speaker 10: I'm not gonna lie like because think about it, the

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Speaker 10: dude lost his wife and had to go to jail

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Speaker 10: for thirty five years just to have the killer that

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Speaker 10: killed your wife son live.

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Speaker 1: In the podcast, he heard his dad trying to tell

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Speaker 1: the truth about Michelle's murder to help absolve Leo. It

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Speaker 1: was the first time he ever heard his.

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Speaker 7: Dad speak dude. When I heard my dad's voice. That

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Speaker 7: shit hit me because no one ever talks about my dad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Justin told me growing up, his mom never spoke

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Speaker 1: about his dad at all. Nothing bad, nothing good, just nothing.

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Speaker 1: But when he was around other family members, he'd catch

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Speaker 1: bits and pieces.

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Speaker 7: You know, I didn't know my dad was, you know,

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Speaker 7: from a young age. I listened. I'm not stupid, like

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Speaker 7: I knew he killed from a very young age. It's

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Speaker 7: just whenever I hear stories about him, is always something different.

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Speaker 7: I don't know what's true or falls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as we talk, I get the sense that overnight,

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Speaker 1: Justin has embarked on a delicate and complicated mission to

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Speaker 1: find out everything he can about his dad, however difficult,

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Speaker 1: and to see if any of what he learns can

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Speaker 1: bolster his dad's confession and help Leo. A big part

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Speaker 1: of that mission is getting his mom, Jamie, to talk

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Speaker 1: to me. Among the texts he sent me were screenshots

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Speaker 1: of a Facebook conversation he had with her. He tells

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Speaker 1: her he just finished listening to the podcast, and he

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Speaker 1: floods the chat box between them with questions about Jeremy's murders,

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Speaker 1: whether or not Jeremy really loved her, if he tried

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Speaker 1: to kill her. She answers his questions, and she tells

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Speaker 1: him that his dad only saw him once.

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Speaker 7: We didn't want to attest. The first time he ever

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Speaker 7: cried in front of her was seeing me. He's never

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Speaker 7: once held me.

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Speaker 1: I already knew something about Justin's mom, Jamie Nellams. She

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Speaker 1: was Jeremy's girlfriend around the time of Michelle Schofield's murder.

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Speaker 1: While I was investigating Jeremy's crimes. I saw her name

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Speaker 1: in police reports, so Kelsey and I tried to talk

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Speaker 1: to her years ago. She even agreed to meet us

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Speaker 1: for lunch at a nearby restaurant County. She texted me

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Speaker 1: that she was on her way. We waited and waited,

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Speaker 1: but Jamie never showed up and I never heard from

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Speaker 1: her again. But now, after hearing his dad talk for

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Speaker 1: the very first time, Justin was asking Jamie to talk

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Speaker 1: to me. In the messages to his mom, he talked

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Speaker 1: about hearing Jeremy's voice. He wrote, he sounded alone and afraid,

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Speaker 1: always on guard. Trust issues. Weirded me out. How alike

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Speaker 1: we are. He wanted to know if she heard the

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Speaker 1: podcast too. She says, I haven't. I'm sorry, hon, I

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Speaker 1: can't bring myself to hear his voice again. He says,

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Speaker 1: I understand fully, and when he tells her, I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to contact Gilbert King now and see what happens. She

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Speaker 1: says he tried to contact me a while back. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't talk to him. I just couldn't do it. Later on,

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Speaker 1: she says, my psych doctor thinks I should tell my

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Speaker 1: story to Gilbert King if it would be therapeutic. Justin

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Speaker 1: urges me to contact her again. He says, she wants

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Speaker 1: to talk.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 7: How are you feeling about this.

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Speaker 2: Microphone and all that? It's it's it's okay.

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Speaker 6: I'm a little.

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Speaker 2: More okay with it now than I was. It's just,

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Speaker 2: you know, when all this first starting, and then I

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Speaker 2: spent so many years trying not to think about it

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Speaker 2: and not to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Kelsey and I rent a hotel room for an interview

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Speaker 1: with Jamie.

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Speaker 2: It was it was really rough there for a while

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Speaker 2: because I went through years of nightmares and the paranoia.

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Speaker 1: Kelsey has arranged the room simply, three chairs, a table

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Speaker 1: in the middle, and two microphones set up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna say, if you don't mind.

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Speaker 1: I sit down across from Jamie. She's dressed in jeans,

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Speaker 1: and a blouse, her short brown hair showing just a

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Speaker 1: hint of gray. She's visibly nervous as we settle around

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Speaker 1: the table doing this. I wanted to start slowly, assuming

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Speaker 1: she might have a hard time opening up. But as

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Speaker 1: she spoke, I realized that this was going to be

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Speaker 1: different from the Jamie I had come to know through

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Speaker 1: depositions and courtroom transcripts.

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Speaker 2: Justin finally reached a point where he wanted to start

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Speaker 2: asking questions.

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Speaker 1: In those formal settings, she was responding to lawyers focused

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Speaker 1: solely on the facts. Here, it became clear she was

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Speaker 1: responding to Justin. She was determined to give him the

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Speaker 1: answers he'd always wanted about his father's life and her own.

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Speaker 2: If me dealing with my crap can help him, it's

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Speaker 2: worth it. It's worth it. I can deal with this

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Speaker 2: to help him. If it's just for me, I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be doing this. I wouldn't be saying I'm just being real.

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Speaker 2: If it was just to do your book or just

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Speaker 2: to do a podcast or whatever, I wouldn't be sitting here.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing this for Justin. I really am.

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Speaker 10: Where were you born?

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Speaker 2: You know, what did your parents do for a living?

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Speaker 8: Just give us an idea of your growing up and

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Speaker 8: what you were doing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I can remember weekends at my grandmother's house. She

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Speaker 2: had thirteen kids, and there'd be like thirty of us,

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Speaker 2: all as cousins. We'd go over on Friday, we'd stay

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Speaker 2: there to Sunday. The parents would all be in the

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Speaker 2: house playing canasta all weekend. They'd had their weekend marathon.

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Speaker 2: The kids were outside playing.

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Speaker 11: We used to play in the orange grow and Jamie,

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Speaker 11: all of us be cousins.

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Speaker 5: We would go over there and we would play like

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Speaker 5: freeze tag or you know, hide and seek, and you

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Speaker 5: know things like that in the orange growth.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Stone lived just two doors down from Jamie's grandma.

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Speaker 5: We knew all the neighbors. All the neighbors knew all

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Speaker 5: the kids and who they belonged to. So if you

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Speaker 5: did something you weren't supposed to, your parents were going

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Speaker 5: to hear about it.

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Speaker 1: When Jamie was seven, her mom married a strict and

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Speaker 1: controlling ex navy guy. By the time she turns seventeen,

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Speaker 1: they're divorced and her mom gets a job as head

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Speaker 1: nurse at a local hospital.

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Speaker 2: She worked to all of our chiefs, so we were

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Speaker 2: pretty much on our own.

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Speaker 1: Jamie found herself experiencing a new sense of freedom, one

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Speaker 1: she'd never known before. With her stepfather out of the picture,

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Speaker 1: she could finally breathe, and in that space there's a

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Speaker 1: quiet resistance to the controls she'd grown up under.

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Speaker 2: Well, we found that club secret picture, a rave club

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Speaker 2: with no alcohol. It was a safe place for teenagers.

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Speaker 2: They didn't let people over eighteen in and it was

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Speaker 2: a dance club. It had the flashing lights and the

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Speaker 2: neon lights, and we would wear the white shirts or

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Speaker 2: with the black lights, you know, it would kind of glow.

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Speaker 1: One night in April nineteen eighty seven, Jamie sitting in

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Speaker 1: the chair right off the dance floor. She's got thick

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Speaker 1: brown hair and glasses like a wallflower, hiding off to

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Speaker 1: the side with her friend Maria when they see this

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Speaker 1: teenage boy enter the club. He's tall and thin, and

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Speaker 1: he moves with confidence and a quiet presence. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to ignore. His name is Jeremy Scott.

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Speaker 2: None of us had ever seen him before, and he's

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Speaker 2: heading toward them. Well, when I first met him, the

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Speaker 2: first thing I thought was his eyes. He had the

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Speaker 2: most purecing eye. They would just like look into you,

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Speaker 2: and I remember sitting in the chairs and he was

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Speaker 2: wearing all black, so you couldn't really see him, but

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Speaker 2: you could see his eyes and he was just staring

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Speaker 2: at me. And I can remember being nervous, you know,

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Speaker 2: because I'd never had a boyfriend before and never really talked.

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Speaker 2: I was so shy, so shy mad. And I remember

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Speaker 2: him kicking my chair and saying, you want to dance?

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Speaker 2: And we danced and that that was it.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the night, Jeremy walked her to

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Speaker 1: her car.

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Speaker 2: I had a big seventy three Cutlas Supreme.

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Speaker 1: Jamie's friend Maria, leaned on one side of the car with.

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Speaker 2: Her boyfriend and they were hugging and kissing and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Well, Jeremy and Jamie settled by the driver's.

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Speaker 2: Side and we just kind of stood there awkwardly for

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Speaker 2: a few minutes, and he asked if next Friday i'd

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Speaker 2: meet him at the mall. Well, I was kind of

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Speaker 2: iffy because the ones that went to the mall were

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Speaker 2: the type of kids that didn't go to secrets, you know.

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Speaker 2: These were the smokers and the drinkers, and that's where

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Speaker 2: the cops would always show up, was at the mall.

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Speaker 2: But I said, yeah, I'd meet him at the mall,

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Speaker 2: and I did.

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Speaker 1: From what I've learned about Jeremy, secret seems like the

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Speaker 1: last place he'd want to be. Tight supervision, no alcohol,

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Speaker 1: and parents hovering just outside. So a few nights later,

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Speaker 1: Jamie meets up with Jeremy at one of his usual

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Speaker 1: spots behind the Lakeland Mall.

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Speaker 2: Now, when I met him at the mall, I asked

301
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 2: him where he was staying at, and he said he

302
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 2: was staying downtown. He did ask me for a ride home,

303
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,159
Speaker 2: and I had dropped him off at this house. And

304
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Speaker 2: I remember looking at this house and thinking it looked abandoned,

305
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 2: like nobody lived there, like it was falling apart. But

306
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 2: there was lights on upstairs, there was people staying there.

307
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 2: It was all kids like him. They were hijacking electricity

308
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 2: off the apartment complex behind it with cords, so that's

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00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,640
Speaker 2: how they had lights on. So, come to find out,

310
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Speaker 2: that's where he stayed out a lot, and that's where

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Speaker 2: he would take me a lot of times, was to

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Speaker 2: abandon houses. And that's where you know, he'd be like,

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Speaker 2: you're staying with me tonight, and we'd go downtown and

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Speaker 2: find an abandoned building and we'd climb in and go

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Speaker 2: to sleep, And here I got a nice townhouse and

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Speaker 2: bed waiting for me at home, and I'm in love,

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Speaker 2: you know, And honestly, if I want to be honest,

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Speaker 2: it was kind of exciting.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy's hanging out with people like this guy named Rambo Stocky,

320
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,719
Speaker 1: twenty something who wears Camo, rides a motorcycle, and who

321
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Speaker 1: spent some time in the Polk County jail and burglary charges.

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Speaker 11: They were not my people.

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Speaker 1: Jamie's childhood friend, Jennifer was less than impressed with Jamie's

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Speaker 1: new boyfriend.

325
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Speaker 5: I wasn't comfortable with the people that he was with,

326
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 5: and I never understood what she saw in him, to

327
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Speaker 5: be honest with you, they were, you know, the headbanging

328
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 5: rock and roller, you know, the drugging type was what

329
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Speaker 5: we referred to him as they were just looking at them. Okay,

330
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Speaker 5: so very judgmental, but being an adult now, I would

331
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Speaker 5: say a bunch of loadlifes. But she was my friend,

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Speaker 5: you know, we were young but dumb kids.

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Speaker 1: She was in love Jamie spending more and more time

334
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Speaker 1: trying to understand Jeremy's secret off the grid world. She

335
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: wants to know more about him and the people who

336
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Speaker 1: matter in his life.

337
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 2: He talked a lot about his grandmother. He talked a

338
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 2: lot about his grandfather and how they used to call

339
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: him Jeremiah, and that Jeremiah was a bullfrog. That was

340
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Speaker 2: his grandfather's favorite song, and they called him Bam Bam,

341
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 2: and they thought it was so cute because he'd beat

342
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: everything up with sticks and stuff and thought it was funny.

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Speaker 1: As we talk with Jamie, since she was allowing herself

344
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Speaker 1: to remember not just the painful truth Justin would have

345
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Speaker 1: to confront about his father, but perhaps for the first

346
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Speaker 1: time in decades, she was willing to think about why

347
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Speaker 1: she'd once been drawn to Jeremy Scott.

348
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Speaker 2: Jeremy had that good side, and he had that funny side,

349
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Speaker 2: and he could be sweet and caring, and you know,

350
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Speaker 2: he had that good in him.

351
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Speaker 7: I saw it.

352
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Speaker 1: But Jamie also found herself doing things for Jeremy, things

353
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Speaker 1: she never would have imagined doing before she met him.

354
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Speaker 1: At first, it wasn't anything too bad, just sort of weird.

355
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: I had money, you know, all I had to do

356
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: was ask. But he would take me and we'd go

357
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 2: donate plasma and we'd do that three times a week.

358
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Speaker 1: It's not unlike giving blood to the Red Cross. They

359
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: go into a harsh, fluorescent lit room where people wait

360
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Speaker 1: in long lines, trading the plasma and their blood for cash.

361
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Speaker 2: And I know the first time he took me, it

362
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: was like one hundred dollars for being a first time donor,

363
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: they pay you a large amount. But then after that,

364
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: I think it was like twenty five first time, fifteen

365
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 2: the second time, and ten the third time, so it

366
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 2: was like fifty bucks something like that, and then as

367
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Speaker 2: soon as we get done, I'd give him the money.

368
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Speaker 1: It's like they live in separate worlds. Well, Jamie rollerskates

369
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: with friends. Jeremy's getting drunk in the park. Well she's

370
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: in school. He's breaking into houses and pawning whatever he can.

371
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: And we hadn't been together a while, and we weren't

372
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Speaker 2: together all the time. I mean, this is a thing

373
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 2: you've got to understand. I would see him for two

374
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Speaker 2: or three days, and then I wouldn't see him for

375
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: three or four months. And then i'd see him for

376
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: two or three days, and then I wouldn't see him

377
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: for six weeks. He didn't have a house phone, he

378
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: didn't have a house, so he'd either call me from

379
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: a payphone, or I wentn't hear from him, And when

380
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 2: he would show up, he'd call from a paythone, Hey,

381
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Speaker 2: meet me down the road. Then when I would see him,

382
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Speaker 2: it was constant. He was right there in my face, constant,

383
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Speaker 2: and I couldn't go anywhere do anything without him right there.

384
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Speaker 1: One day, Jeremy tells Jamie he wants to take a

385
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Speaker 1: trip a few hours north. Jeremy gets behind the wheel,

386
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Speaker 1: even though he doesn't have a license.

387
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: He was wanting me to meet his mom. I hadn't

388
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: met his mom yet.

389
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: After hours of driving, they finally make it to Perry, Florida.

390
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: Jeremy pulls into a gas station where his mother, Linda

391
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: is working.

392
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: It was the only gas station in the hotel. And

393
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: I can remember us pulling up to the hess station

394
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: and her coming out, and her exact words were, what

395
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: the eff are you doing here? And I just kind

396
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: of sat there and shock, you know, I'm like, I'm like, oh,

397
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: this is his mom. And he turned around and he

398
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: got back in the car and we drove down the

399
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: road and he pulled off the side of the road

400
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: and I looked at him and I said, are you okay?

401
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 2: And I guess I shouldn't have said that. And as

402
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: soon as I said, are U okay, he punched me

403
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: as hard as he could and he kicked me out

404
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: of the car. And I remember him kicking me out

405
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: of the car. I mean looking down this road and

406
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: there's nothing but palmmeadow trees and big old pine trees

407
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: and nothing. There's no building, you know, And I started crying,

408
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, he's going to leave me here. I

409
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 2: don't know anybody. I'm not going to talk to that lady.

410
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: I'm not talking to her. She talks to her son

411
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: that way. What's she gonna say to me? Yeah? And

412
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: about ten minutes later, he came back. He came back,

413
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: and he picked me back up.

414
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: They make the long, quiet drive back to Polk County.

415
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: From that moment on, her fear was mounting. And always there,

416
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: sitting in that hotel room with Jamie, listening to her

417
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: go back in time, I could see she was entering

418
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: some of the territories she tried to leave behind, things

419
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: that caused her a lot of pain and at times

420
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: probably caused justin some pain too.

421
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 7: She tried it, but she struggled a lot, like she

422
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 7: was far from a perfect mom. But she loved us. Yeah,

423
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 7: like I give her that. She loved us for all

424
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 7: her heart and I knew that, but.

425
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: It was a constant battle to keep Jeremy out of

426
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: her mind.

427
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: I was burying them from me. Does that make sense?

428
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: So it wasn't that I was trying to protect Justin.

429
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: It wasn't that I was trying to keep them from Justin.

430
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 2: I didn't talk about to anybody.

431
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: But now, with wanting to know everything, Jamie told me

432
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: it was time she said it all out loud. She

433
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: takes us back to nineteen eighty eight, she's dating Jeremy

434
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: and he disappears yet again.

435
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: I still don't know what he went to prison for.

436
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: I remember asking him several times and he never answered me.

437
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: I know Jeremy used to like to wait outside the

438
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: Green Parrot and wait for the gay people to leave,

439
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 2: and he'd beat him up with baseball bats and stuff.

440
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: He'd hang outside Lakeland's gay bars like the Green Parrot

441
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: and Fantasy two thousand.

442
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, that's how he ended up

443
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: with stitches that one night. He ended up with stitches

444
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: in his knee in his head because he waited outside

445
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: Green Parrot and they knew he was there and jumped

446
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: him and he got some of his own medicine.

447
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: The lesson doesn't take, and he's soon back at Lake

448
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: Morton after dark, prowling for his next targets.

449
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody knew what Lake Morton was, and that

450
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: was the gay hangout, and a lot of them got robbed,

451
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: a lot of them got beat up, a lot of

452
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: them got hurt, and it was just never reported. It

453
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: was never in the newspapers, but everybody knew about it.

454
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: I know from going through court records that Robin gay

455
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: Men is not what Jeremy went to prison for this time. Instead,

456
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: it was for breaking into a home in Lakeland stealing

457
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: a few cameras of VCR and some other electronics. He

458
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: was caught, convicted, and sentenced to state prison, where he

459
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: spent over four months until his release in May of

460
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight.

461
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: When he got out from that was when he was

462
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: really different. And I don't know if something happened while

463
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: he was in prison or I don't know what it was,

464
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: but he was a total different person. And that's when

465
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 2: his eyes were empty and there was nothing, I mean,

466
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: he never smiled, there was nothing, There was nothing there,

467
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: and I can remember looking at him and just not

468
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: even really recognizing him, not even knowing who he was.

469
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: Weeks after Jeremy got out of prison, Jamie remembers him

470
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: disappearing again. For a while, she didn't see or hear

471
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: from him. She had no idea where he was until

472
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: one hot summer morning, when Jamie, her sisters, and her

473
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: mom were getting ready to head to Disney World for

474
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: the day.

475
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: He shows up that morning. I hadn't seen him in

476
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: like three weeks. My mom was nice enough to offer

477
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: to pay for him to go to Disney World with us,

478
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: and he said no. But then he told me I

479
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: couldn't go, and my mom put her foot down. Now

480
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: she's going. We've already bought tickets. It's a family day.

481
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: We're going. That was the first time I'd ever told

482
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: him no. I had never told him no before ever

483
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: for anything. Anything he ever asked me to do, I.

484
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: Did it, except for this time. Jamie leaves with her

485
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: mom and her sisters. They spend the entire day at

486
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: the Magic Kingdom, and as they step into their ground

487
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: floor apartment that night, they see him. Jeremy. He's outside

488
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: knocking on the sliding glass door.

489
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: He was in the backyard waiting, and I'm pretty sure

490
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: he sat there all day.

491
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: Jamie steps out into the backyard. Jeremy gives a small wave,

492
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: motioning for her to follow. It's dark now. Jeremy leads

493
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: her to a spot behind the townhouses, out of sight.

494
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: He bent over and he stood up and he turned

495
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: around and he said, you told me no. And that's

496
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: the last thing I remember. And that's when it really

497
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: got bad, because I think that's when it was ingrained

498
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: in me to never again tell him no. And I

499
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: never did.

500
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 11: I remember. I remember something with her jaw.

501
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 5: It was always kind of kind of about a whack,

502
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 5: not properly aligned, and I thought she was in a

503
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 5: car accident.

504
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 11: It was my understanding of what happened. Is that really

505
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 11: what happened.

506
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 7: I don't know.

507
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 5: She had bruises, and you know, there was a couple

508
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: of times you could see where it looked like he

509
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 5: grabbed her, someone grabbed her. You know, she had bruises

510
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 5: on her arms and it looked like someone had punched

511
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 5: her in the face.

512
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 11: But you know, it was I felt.

513
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 5: I can't remember what her explanation was, but you know,

514
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 5: I felt like, you know, I wasn't paying attention, but

515
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 5: it was. She always explained it away. So what are

516
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 5: you going to say. I never saw him do anything.

517
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 5: She never told me he did anything.

518
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: I think there was a part of me that thought

519
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: I could help him, that I could make it better,

520
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: make him feel loved, and he'd be okay, and maybe

521
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: he wouldn't do the things that he was doing, you

522
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. But I know that by the

523
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: end it was all fear, that there was no There

524
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: was no love there. It was all fear. Jeremy was

525
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: in jail when I found out I was pregnant.

526
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: By the fall of nineteen eighty eight, Jamie's been seeing

527
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: Jeremy for about a year and a half, always on

528
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: his terms. She's eighteen now and she drops out of school.

529
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: I was having to stay with my grandmother because my

530
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: mom found out I was pregnant and she kicked me out.

531
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: So I was living at my grandmother's house and Jeremy

532
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: showed up and I was showing I was scared to death,

533
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: and I can remember him calling me a couple weeks

534
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: later and telling me some fullless story about he was

535
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: dying of some disease and I needed to find somebody else,

536
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: and I can remember thinking about in my mind, he's

537
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: breaking up with me because I'm pregnant, and the sick

538
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: part of me was angry, how dare you break up

539
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: with me because I'm pregnant with your kid? And I

540
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: can remember I started crying and my aunt Mary walked in.

541
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: She's like, what's wrong with you? And I said, he

542
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 2: just broke up with me because I'm pregnant. And then

543
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I caught myself when I stopped,

544
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 2: and I smiled, and I said, he just broke up

545
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: with me because I'm pregnant.

546
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: Jamie thought she was finally rid of Jeremy and all

547
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: the chaos, the violence and the abuse. But two weeks

548
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: later he's back, this time with blood on his pants

549
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: and a stolen car he wants Jamie to get in,

550
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: and by now Jamie knows the consequences of telling Jeremy no.

551
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: Next time, I knew I wasn't coming back. I knew

552
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: if they didn't catch him, I was going to die.

553
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: Own Valley is a production of LoVa for Good podcast

554
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive producers

555
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: are Jason Flomm, Jeff Kempler and Kevin Wordis. Karen Kornhaber

556
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: is our senior producer. Jackie Pauley and Hannah Biel are

557
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: our producers. Britz Spangler is our sound designer. Marianne McCune

558
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: is our editor. Fact checking by Dania Sulemant. Jeff Cliburn

559
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: is our head of marketing and operations. Our Social media

560
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: director is Ismati Guardrama, our Social Media manager is Sarah Gibbons,

561
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: and our art director is Andrew Nelson. Additional research and

562
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: production by Kelsey Decker. Additional sound recording by James Johnson.

563
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: Bone Valley is written and produced by Me Gilbert King.

564
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and threads at Lava

565
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: for Good