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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com right with Ambar Garcia, Brian brought Us,
Speaker 1: Nick Harris, and Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 4: It is Wednesday, April ninth, twenty twenty five, Season twenty one,
Speaker 4: episode number five. Welcome to the latest edition of The Break.
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Speaker 5: Maybe uh it's one of LB not being able to
Speaker 5: get my chair up there.
Speaker 2: We go, all right, sorry, go ahead, Well LG does
Speaker 2: not make the chair.
Speaker 4: But I'm just saying we've gotta have some surprises for
Speaker 4: our listeners, so you've got to stay tuned for that.
Speaker 2: LG is is they're thinking about stepping up in a
Speaker 2: big way.
Speaker 6: We're gonna have some trait it out.
Speaker 2: I will not tell you because it isn't finalized. We're
Speaker 2: working on some stuff.
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna say on here there, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can always use on one, O, five, do
Speaker 2: three the thing right?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I said, don't be giving fake promises on here. Okay.
Speaker 2: When do I get fake promises, I will.
Speaker 6: We'll see ask again next week. Don't worry, guys. I
Speaker 6: will keep on top of this. I will keep him
Speaker 6: to what he just said, stay.
Speaker 4: On top of it, all right. Appreciate you guys joining
Speaker 4: us today. We got a few things we're going to
Speaker 4: talk about. We're going to continue our series on positions today.
Speaker 4: We're going to talk about the wide receiver position. If
Speaker 4: we have time, we'll get into the tight end position
Speaker 4: as well. Before we do that, though, I did want
Speaker 4: to catch up on a trade that was made after
Speaker 4: our show last week. Cowboys get a quarterback in Joe Milton.
Speaker 4: They gave up a compensatory one of their compensatory fifth
Speaker 4: round picks, the one under and seventy first pick overall.
Speaker 4: They received back a seventh round pick, two hundred and
Speaker 4: seventeenth overall. And obviously got Joe Milton added to their roster.
Speaker 4: Let's start, Brian, give me a give me a scatter report.
Speaker 4: If you were just looking at this guy and giving
Speaker 4: a scattering report, what would you say are his greatest
Speaker 4: strengths greatest weaknesses.
Speaker 7: This guy's got an incredibly strong arm. And in this
Speaker 7: draft Nick Harrison and I will tell you about the
Speaker 7: when Jalen Milroe and the guy like that that has mobility,
Speaker 7: maybe not the mobility of Milroe, but when you start
Speaker 7: to talk about the arm talent, the arm strength, there
Speaker 7: has always been some kind of some questions, you know,
Speaker 7: where does he throw the ball too hard? Does he
Speaker 7: have touch? Because he able to do all those things.
Speaker 7: You know, you watch him on tape. You watch him
Speaker 7: the last game that he you know, he got to
Speaker 7: play against the Buffalo Bills where he was he was
Speaker 7: brought into the game. He played exceptionally well. The pocket, mobility,
Speaker 7: the awareness. You watch him some in the preseason, and
Speaker 7: you know, you see these things. Joe Milton is a
Speaker 7: very very talented player. When I look at you know,
Speaker 7: my board. If you're talking about fifth round guys, you know,
Speaker 7: I don't know. I mean, that's that's the thing I
Speaker 7: look at, I go, I don't know if Riley Leonard
Speaker 7: can play. I don't know this, you know. I mean
Speaker 7: there's things that you can you can kind of take from,
Speaker 7: you know, watching the college tape and then watching also
Speaker 7: what Joe Milton and watching what they gave up. Here's
Speaker 7: my hope if you're a Dallas Cowboys fan, that Ken
Speaker 7: Dorsey at one time who's on staff now, you know,
Speaker 7: worked with Josh Allen who had some issues strong arm,
Speaker 7: maybe some maybe some accurate issues, accuracy issues. That's my
Speaker 7: hope right there for if you're a Cowboy fan, is
Speaker 7: that in fact that Ken Dorsey can come in. This guy,
Speaker 7: he's I think the mechanics need to be kind of
Speaker 7: worked with a little bit. He really strides into his
Speaker 7: throats and I think that's why he has the the
Speaker 7: arm talent that he does the ball sometimes behind guys
Speaker 7: a little bit needs to put it out in front.
Speaker 7: But but Ken Dorsey did did wonderful things the first
Speaker 7: couple of years, uh, you know, with Josh Allen, and
Speaker 7: hopefully that he could potentially do the same thing with
Speaker 7: Joe Milton. And I think that if they if they
Speaker 7: can kind of correct some of those things, the mechanical
Speaker 7: things with this throwing motion that I think you might
Speaker 7: hit on a guy here for a very minimal pick.
Speaker 4: When you look at at what he is and the
Speaker 4: fact that he hasn't played a lot of football in
Speaker 4: the NFL. Do you think right now, based on where
Speaker 4: he is, that he's the guy that Cowboys are bringing
Speaker 4: in for developmental purposes or do you think he's actually
Speaker 4: the guy that's going to be lined up to jump
Speaker 4: in if Dak should be out for any amount of
Speaker 4: time next season.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it could be a little bit of both, right.
Speaker 3: I think On one hand, the Cowboys and Brian Schottenheimer,
Speaker 3: they did say throughout the offseason that they want to
Speaker 3: get younger behind Dak Prescott. They want to have a
Speaker 3: young developmental guy. That was kind of the idea in
Speaker 3: bringing in Trey Lance didn't quite pan out. He's now
Speaker 3: with the Chargers, signed last week, but you know they're
Speaker 3: looking onto their next guy and trying to find another
Speaker 3: developmental guy that they could potentially usher in if and
Speaker 3: when Dak eventually does call it quits. And so you
Speaker 3: know you have a guy in Joe Milton that is
Speaker 3: still a project in a lot of different ways. Yes,
Speaker 3: you see that game that he had against Buffalo in
Speaker 3: the season finale last year, and he looked great. He flashed,
Speaker 3: he showed a arm strength, he showed a lucidness from
Speaker 3: the pocket. That's one of my most favorite traits of
Speaker 3: Joe Milton, his ability to escape pressure and throw on
Speaker 3: the run. But he was playing against Bill's backups. You
Speaker 3: probably saw Kyrie Elam on the field. I mean there
Speaker 3: was some other sorry, there was some other Bills players
Speaker 3: on the field that hadn't been getting much playing time
Speaker 3: throughout the season. So you know, you take that for
Speaker 3: what it is, but you also factor in, Hey, he's
Speaker 3: gonna have a full preseason, he's gonna have a full
Speaker 3: training camp of work. I just I worry in one instance,
Speaker 3: if say this team is ten and three, Dak goes
Speaker 3: down and they need Joe Milton to finish the season.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's something that would make you
Speaker 3: feel warm and fuzzy. Now, granted, you wouldn't feel warm
Speaker 3: and fuzzy if it was Cooper Rush, but I think
Speaker 3: you would still feel better if it was a guy
Speaker 3: like Cooper Rush. But I understand the thought process behind
Speaker 3: getting a young quarterback in the building because let's say
Speaker 3: that happens in twenty twenty six, then Joe Milton might
Speaker 3: be in a better spot at that point than Cooper
Speaker 3: Rush maybe ever would have been. So I understand the
Speaker 3: thought process behind the Cowboys. You know, signing Joe Milton.
Speaker 3: You don't plan, you don't hope for a Dak Prescott injury,
Speaker 3: but you have to plan for it. In the same instance,
Speaker 3: I think there's a little bit of hope that they
Speaker 3: at least get one full year of Dak before they
Speaker 3: will need Joe Milton's spot start a game or two
Speaker 3: throughout a regular season.
Speaker 6: Well, you still have Will Greer on the team. I mean,
Speaker 6: I know not many people get excited about that, but
Speaker 6: I was pretty excited on that last game he had
Speaker 6: here in that preseason game when Dak was the one
Speaker 6: coach in him. So I think there's some more stuff
Speaker 6: that he can show the Cowboys. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: with a guy like Milton, he even though he likes
Speaker 6: the experience, what you've seen from him, especially in that game,
Speaker 6: it gives you some hope. It gives you like something
Speaker 6: that you can work with and develop. I think it's
Speaker 6: a good I thought it was a good trade for
Speaker 6: the Cowboys, and I think he can bring a lot
Speaker 6: of stuff new here, but also his his personality. When
Speaker 6: you look at a guy like him and you see
Speaker 6: him talk, he has just this freshness to him. He's
Speaker 6: ready to come in here and work and just has
Speaker 6: a different aura that you know, you're you want to now.
Speaker 6: I'm excited to see him and what he can bring.
Speaker 6: And he says all the right the right things, so
Speaker 6: we'll see what he does.
Speaker 7: To quote a guy a longtime NFL coach Tom Moore,
Speaker 7: when asked about what do they do if Peyton Manning
Speaker 7: goes down, they say, we don't work on F You know,
Speaker 7: that's Tom Moore's quote. I would like to use the
Speaker 7: word that Tom Moore us, but I can't do it
Speaker 7: on But Tom Moore said, we don't work on FT
Speaker 7: and so I understand where Nick's coming from, though I'm
Speaker 7: just having some fun with him right now. But yeah,
Speaker 7: your hope is that that Joe Milton can come in
Speaker 7: and and work. And I totally understand Nick's concerned if
Speaker 7: the guy's you know, if you're ten and three, you know,
Speaker 7: can Joe Milton find a way to win you a
Speaker 7: couple of games? If not then you know what, then
Speaker 7: they'll have to rethink the quarterbacks said situation going forward
Speaker 7: in the future.
Speaker 3: And I'm glad you mentioned Will Greer and bar I
Speaker 3: think there's going to be four quarterbacks that camp. I
Speaker 3: think you'll see an undrafted quarterback too. I think they
Speaker 3: want to increase the competition at that position behind Dak
Speaker 3: Prescott as much as possible. And you're right, Joe Milton
Speaker 3: is not the assumed backup. You know, he's going to
Speaker 3: have to earn that role. He's going to have to
Speaker 3: beat out Will Greer. I think he will, but I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be surprised if there's an undrafted guy that gets
Speaker 3: thrown in the mix.
Speaker 4: Too well playing against the Bill's backups and what he
Speaker 4: did there. If he does at this preseason, and my
Speaker 4: guess is he's probably going to be the guy that
Speaker 4: they tab as the backup, but it will be it
Speaker 4: will remain to be seen whether if Dak goes down,
Speaker 4: he's capable of being able to handle that, because that
Speaker 4: is a big responsibility when you're talking about starting quarterback
Speaker 4: in the NFL during the regular season.
Speaker 2: So we'll see how that all plays out.
Speaker 4: One other thing that just popped up about Dak talking
Speaker 4: about the quarterback position. I saw a video that Jacob
Speaker 4: Ferguson put up and he said, I think he said
Speaker 4: it tongue in cheek, Dak is down fifty pounds. I
Speaker 4: don't think that.
Speaker 2: There's no way because I think he's twenty.
Speaker 4: A's where he's listed on the on the two thirty eight,
Speaker 4: maybe something like that. Something in the two twenties, I
Speaker 4: would guess.
Speaker 2: I would guess twenties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but if he's down fifty pounds, that would be
Speaker 4: really really small. He's not that, But the fact is
Speaker 4: he is looking a little lighter. My question for you guys,
Speaker 4: and I think this is one of the things I'm
Speaker 4: trying to figure out how.
Speaker 6: I think good or right?
Speaker 2: Is it good?
Speaker 4: A fact? Because when you start thinking about it, it's like,
Speaker 4: if you're lighter, are you more mobile?
Speaker 2: Are you that's flexible? If you're heavier, can you absorb
Speaker 2: more hits? Which one's better?
Speaker 7: Dak was always a guy that I believed in when
Speaker 7: he first started that he had the body armor to
Speaker 7: take the wear and tear, and we always One of
Speaker 7: my lines about him was when Dak is bloodied and muddy,
Speaker 7: that's when he's playing at his absolute best. We're getting
Speaker 7: to a point now where Dak doesn't need to be
Speaker 7: bloodied and muddied anymore. But the questions are about his mobility.
Speaker 7: And these were questions that were even brought up when
Speaker 7: Mike McCarthy, you know, was still the head coach and
Speaker 7: he and Jerry Jones and the conversations that they had
Speaker 7: along the way. You know, are we dealing with a
Speaker 7: quarterback that has lost some of his mobility because of
Speaker 7: some of the horrific injuries that he's had, you know,
Speaker 7: to his lower body. And with that being said, the
Speaker 7: best way to be more mobile and I even you know,
Speaker 7: and Nick and I maybe will disagree on this on
Speaker 7: when we talk about the draft is Shador Sanders. If
Speaker 7: you watch Shador Sanders at Jackson State, he looks like
Speaker 7: a lighter player, Yes, Jackson State competing against Wax schools,
Speaker 7: but still the mobility you could see him moving around
Speaker 7: better him Now, you know, in the Big twelve, he
Speaker 7: looks like a bigger body guy and there's going to
Speaker 7: be a point in time where he's probably going to
Speaker 7: someone's going to tell him, hey, you slim the scene down.
Speaker 7: Your mobility will approve I think Dak's doing the same things.
Speaker 7: He realizes that he doesn't have the flexibility and the
Speaker 7: mobility that he once had. How do you try and
Speaker 7: combat that? Weight loss seems to be the best way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also weight loss can be a little deceiving
Speaker 3: at times too. Is does he look slimmer, Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 3: but he also a little bit stockier, so that that
Speaker 3: weight could have just been reapplied with muscles. There's a
Speaker 3: whole science behind it. But I more so saw about
Speaker 3: ten pounds off of Dak. And if that's the case,
Speaker 3: he's listed at two thirty eight, so you know, if
Speaker 3: he's down ten pounds, he's around two twenty five. That's
Speaker 3: pretty average for NFL quarterbacks.
Speaker 6: Also, when you make that much money and when you
Speaker 6: work around here working for them and for an NFL team,
Speaker 6: you have to trust that they know what they're doing.
Speaker 6: I mean, all the people that he has around him
Speaker 6: in coaching and directing him and training him the right way. Again,
Speaker 6: he's recovering from that injury, so that has been a
Speaker 6: process as well. He hasn't initially remembering be able to
Speaker 6: work out the way that he used to as he
Speaker 6: was recovering from that. So I think we'll see, and
Speaker 6: I just I trust the process. I don't know how
Speaker 6: mobile he will be when once the season gets here.
Speaker 6: I mean, if last season was any indicative of how
Speaker 6: that could be in the future. I don't have many
Speaker 6: hopes in that regards when he comes to his mobility
Speaker 6: and ability to run anymore. But hopefully whatever weight he
Speaker 6: has is for the best.
Speaker 3: On the DAK Mobility conversation, his most mobile season, quote
Speaker 3: unquote was twenty eighteen by far. It was pre injuries.
Speaker 3: It was pre leg injury. He was the third year
Speaker 3: in the league, so he's feeling comfortable whenever he had
Speaker 3: that post leg injury. And still in the Kellimore offense,
Speaker 3: they dialed it back big time, and I think there
Speaker 3: was still a level to Dax game that he felt
Speaker 3: like he could tap into from that mobility standpoint. So
Speaker 3: when Mike McCarthy took over the offense, they kind of
Speaker 3: blended ideas. It's like, hey, let me take this to
Speaker 3: myself at times, and you know, they pushed the limit.
Speaker 5: They pushed the limit.
Speaker 3: They maybe saw where that limit was with Atlanta, and
Speaker 3: now it's like trying to figure out the body, Okay,
Speaker 3: what can the body withstand within this same exact offensive philosophy,
Speaker 3: because I expect the mobility to still carry over into
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, which is a little bit more caution,
Speaker 3: how does that look that looks and maybe reforming the
Speaker 3: body in certain instances. And you know, he was on
Speaker 3: pace to have his second highest rushing total of his
Speaker 3: career last season before the injury, so you know there's
Speaker 3: certainly an intention behind getting him more mobile.
Speaker 5: We like him when he's more mobile from an.
Speaker 3: Evaluation standpoint, when he's moving outside the pocket, I feel
Speaker 3: like it, and working off script, especially with the CD Lamb,
Speaker 3: it makes this offense much more dangerous. So I think
Speaker 3: you can still expect that in twenty twenty five. I
Speaker 3: think there's gonna be a lot of intention putting into
Speaker 3: the offense about what that looks like.
Speaker 4: I even wonder to some degree with the new offensive coordinator.
Speaker 4: I look at what the kinds of things they did
Speaker 4: in Arizona. I wonder if they want Dak to be
Speaker 4: a little more involved in the running game for some
Speaker 4: called runs, and maybe this is a part of that.
Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure, but I do believe Dak is
Speaker 4: at his best when he's moving around a little more
Speaker 4: than we've seen him do over the last couple years.
Speaker 4: All Right, we're gonna take our first break. When we
Speaker 4: come back, we'll talk about the wide receiver position. We'll
Speaker 4: dive into some conversations there. I want to find out
Speaker 4: about some of those guys that are not Cede Lamb
Speaker 4: and where they are in their development and what the
Speaker 4: Cowboys should be expecting from them in this upcoming twenty
Speaker 4: twenty five season.
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Speaker 4: It is the second segment of the break life in
Speaker 4: that WBC Mortgage Studios at the start of the segment
Speaker 4: brought to you by blockchain dot Com. Let's talk wide Receiver.
Speaker 4: I want to start with Jalen Tolbert. After watching him
Speaker 4: for the first few years of his career, give me
Speaker 4: an assessment of where you think he is from a
Speaker 4: standpoint of how he's developed from year to year and
Speaker 4: where he is right now in that development process.
Speaker 3: Yeah, last offseason we talked about a lot how Jalen
Speaker 3: Tolbert was Dak's guy during the off season, right and
Speaker 3: we had talked about that the year prior with Ceedee Lamb,
Speaker 3: you know, being the guy that you know Dak took
Speaker 3: to the Dak yard they had many throwing sessions throughout
Speaker 3: the off season. This that and the third well, if
Speaker 3: you remember Ceedee Lamb was holding out. Yes he was
Speaker 3: still working with Dak, but it wasn't as frequent as
Speaker 3: it was the previous offseason, and so Jalen Tolbert took
Speaker 3: advantage of those opportunities and he was there to you know,
Speaker 3: fill in. Brandon Cooks was there as a strong mentor
Speaker 3: for him, and he took that into year three and
Speaker 3: had a good year. I mean forty nine receptions, six
Speaker 3: and ten yards, seven touchdowns. I think if you told
Speaker 3: any of us at the start of the season, hey,
Speaker 3: this is what Jayalen Tolbert is going to produced.
Speaker 5: You'd be happy with that.
Speaker 3: The question is, how is this his ceiling or does
Speaker 3: he have a little bit more to push through for
Speaker 3: this is the last year of his rookie contract, so
Speaker 3: in my opinion, he would either need a repeat performance
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four or probably a little bit more
Speaker 3: to ensure that he has a shot at being a
Speaker 3: wide receiver three down the line. But I think there
Speaker 3: are things to like. He improved his route tree, he
Speaker 3: showed that he can do multiple things. Last season, he
Speaker 3: improved in the contested catch department last season, which they
Speaker 3: tested him on multiple times, especially with Cooper Rush, which
Speaker 3: I found interesting. They put trust in his hands, and
Speaker 3: I think about the Pittsburgh Steelers game, right, I put
Speaker 3: a lot of trust in his hands on that fourth
Speaker 3: down to be able to win the game for him,
Speaker 3: and certainly he was able to do so. He played
Speaker 3: in all seventeen games. He hasn't had injury issues in
Speaker 3: his last two years. He's a reliable guy. But you
Speaker 3: wonder how close is he to his ceiling. I don't
Speaker 3: think I have the answer to that. I think that's
Speaker 3: gonna have to be something that Jalen Toldward answers in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think Nick's got him right. The thing about
Speaker 7: it that I was just hoping for more consistency. I'd
Speaker 7: see the Pittsburgh game and you saw the ability to
Speaker 7: make some big plays. It just feels like with this
Speaker 7: player that you see one really outstanding game and then
Speaker 7: you wait for him for two three other games to
Speaker 7: kind of do things. And you know, consistency sounds like
Speaker 7: it just a cop out word. In this case, it
Speaker 7: probably is, and I feel terrible about it, but it
Speaker 7: really is true. With this player. I mean, you do
Speaker 7: you see flashes of absolute brilliance as a player, and
Speaker 7: then that just tends to kind of fade away, and
Speaker 7: you know, you don't, you know, get it back for
Speaker 7: maybe a couple of weeks. Like I said, So, you know,
Speaker 7: if if you could find a way to make that work,
Speaker 7: then I think that it will all be very very happy.
Speaker 7: But you know, we I think the bar for me
Speaker 7: was set very high. I mean, he was a really
Speaker 7: good player coming out of South Alabama. I don't think
Speaker 7: I've seen the same player at times. I have, but
Speaker 7: I just haven't seen that consistency. And I hate to
Speaker 7: not have a better word for you or a better description,
Speaker 7: but that's really where I look at the player I
Speaker 7: look at. Someone says, tell me about Joanato, I say,
Speaker 7: just a lack of consistency. That's I think the biggest
Speaker 7: problem with him right now.
Speaker 6: Yeah, at this point in his career, you would be
Speaker 6: expecting a little more. And I hate to keep repeating
Speaker 6: the word, but I agree with you guys on the
Speaker 6: word consistency. Year one, you could cut him some slack
Speaker 6: on how he reacted to that, and he came back
Speaker 6: year two, got better in the when you compare to
Speaker 6: his first year coming here to Dallas. But his game
Speaker 6: just exactly what Brian said. You said, you see those
Speaker 6: plays that you know he can do it, he's got it,
Speaker 6: but then it disappears and then you don't see it again.
Speaker 6: So you just get a very small flash of excitement.
Speaker 6: But then again, with the way that the play calling
Speaker 6: was happening last year, I think there's some sense there
Speaker 6: that I had that with Mike McCarthy and what he
Speaker 6: was doing with the offense, I don't think it necessarily
Speaker 6: benefited his game in a way that he could find
Speaker 6: better success there. But at the same time, when he
Speaker 6: did get those chances, I don't think he was able
Speaker 6: to fully capitalize on them.
Speaker 4: When you look at at Jalen Tolbert, obviously this year
Speaker 4: he was the guy that was kind of the guy
Speaker 4: right behind Ceedee Lamb that because because Cooks was out
Speaker 4: for a significant amount of time. When you look at
Speaker 4: someone like Jonathan Mingo and the Cowboys trading for him,
Speaker 4: or do you think he fits What are the things
Speaker 4: you saw from him this last year that make you
Speaker 4: say maybe he has a shot at being in the
Speaker 4: mix this year, or I just don't see it. What
Speaker 4: are the things you're seeing right now from Jonathan Mingo?
Speaker 3: Kind of felt like a red shirt year for him.
Speaker 3: And the staff will tell you the same thing. I mean,
Speaker 3: you ask Jerry Jones, Steven Jones, Brian Schottenheimer about Jonathan
Speaker 3: Mingo this offseason, it's always like, yeah, we got him
Speaker 3: in late, We're gonna give him full off season and
Speaker 3: see what he can provide this year.
Speaker 5: We're excited about it.
Speaker 3: And so it's like, yeah, disregard everything that happened, even
Speaker 3: though he played half a season, and you know they'll
Speaker 3: they'll try to find a role for him moving forward.
Speaker 3: I mean, he played in eight games, he only had
Speaker 3: five receptions for forty six yards, and he's still searching
Speaker 3: for his first NFL touchdown. I mean, regardless, he has
Speaker 3: not been the second round pick that Carolina selected a couple.
Speaker 5: Of years ago.
Speaker 7: I don't.
Speaker 3: I Mingo is a guy that you don't plan to
Speaker 3: step into a feature role. But if he does, great,
Speaker 3: But if he doesn't, you still go get a receiver
Speaker 3: early in this draft to accompany that, because you're you're
Speaker 3: not betting on that. He hasn't been the guy that
Speaker 3: he was at Ole Miss. As far as like the
Speaker 3: big play machine, you know, having those big yards per reception,
Speaker 3: having the contested catch situations. He just hasn't been putting
Speaker 3: those positions. You know, maybe that's what Dallas would like
Speaker 3: to seek from him. This preseason and preseason will be
Speaker 3: huge for him. But I think this is more so like, hey,
Speaker 3: we got this year. If it doesn't work out, oh well,
Speaker 3: if it does, then you know, will look great. But
Speaker 3: I'm not banking, honestly on Jonathan Mingo being a future
Speaker 3: role in this offense.
Speaker 7: Yeah. I think what's gonna happen is we're gonna get
Speaker 7: into these pre draft meetings, you know, the media availability
Speaker 7: for pre draft, and Nick is going to ask a
Speaker 7: really good question about the wide receivers, and the first
Speaker 7: person they're going to talk about is Mingo. That's going too.
Speaker 7: You know, there there's a there is a there's a
Speaker 7: group in that room that really do believe in him.
Speaker 7: They had him as a high second round grade on
Speaker 7: their board. They you know, if you watch him play,
Speaker 7: there's been some problems of getting him the football. You know,
Speaker 7: that's that's been a big, big issue, and there's been
Speaker 7: times where you know, he has not had the opportunities
Speaker 7: and when he's had the opportunities, he just the quarterbacks
Speaker 7: just have not done a very good job of getting
Speaker 7: him the ball. But they're going to tell you that, hey,
Speaker 7: we love his size, we love his athletic ability, We
Speaker 7: thought himenough of him as a college player to make
Speaker 7: a trade for him. We feel like this will be
Speaker 7: a good year for him. They're going to sell him,
Speaker 7: you know, and we're we're going to stand there and
Speaker 7: we're all going to nod our head and say okay,
Speaker 7: And you know, it'll be another one of those things
Speaker 7: like Tolbert and some of the others that they've said before.
Speaker 7: You know, this doesn't keep me from drafting somebody in
Speaker 7: this draft at twelve. They could play wider because that person,
Speaker 7: whoever they pick, will immediately go to the head of
Speaker 7: the class. And we can all talk about the Jonathan Mingoes,
Speaker 7: and we could talk about the Tollbird and Adams and
Speaker 7: Florinay and all those guys. They know they need to
Speaker 7: go get a legitimate guy, and that's why I think
Speaker 7: they're in the situation they are with Mingo. They'll tell
Speaker 7: us about him, but it's one of those things that
Speaker 7: they know they have to get better.
Speaker 5: If the season started today.
Speaker 3: With the receiving core that they have, I'd be putting
Speaker 3: Mingo at wide receiver five. I'd be putting him behind
Speaker 3: Tolbert Turpin and Jalen Brooks. As far as what I
Speaker 3: would expect from production out of him.
Speaker 6: Dang well, I see it differently. I'm actually very intrigued
Speaker 6: to see Mingo a lot more of him because I
Speaker 6: thought that on the little amount of opportunities he got
Speaker 6: last year, they weren't getting him the ball. One thing
Speaker 6: that excited me during that time of the season was
Speaker 6: when you watch his game, he will be where he
Speaker 6: needs to be. He would find a way get open
Speaker 6: and get there, but then they couldn't throw him the
Speaker 6: ball ride or there were a couple of instances that
Speaker 6: it was on him to be fair. But at the
Speaker 6: same time, I thought that if you get him a
Speaker 6: better quarterback with more accuracy happening there in, a better
Speaker 6: play caller and all of that into the mix, I
Speaker 6: think he can be a lot better and be actually
Speaker 6: productive a lot more than wide receiver number five. I
Speaker 6: think he could be thrown in there, not to be
Speaker 6: the mega superstar or anything, but to be someone that
Speaker 6: you can rely on throughout the game.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think it actually became a bit of
Speaker 4: a joke. I know, me and Amber and Nick sit
Speaker 4: by each other during Nikki, and it became a bit
Speaker 4: of a joke at one point where we were saying, like,
Speaker 4: are they ever going to throw him a ball he
Speaker 4: actually has a chance of catching because there were so
Speaker 4: many times he was open, ball went behind him, ball
Speaker 4: was over his head.
Speaker 2: It was just it was.
Speaker 7: Happening free happening at Carolina too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it happened so frequently, And that was also part
Speaker 4: of the part of the I guess is like, can
Speaker 4: this guy in the NFL, can he get a quarterback
Speaker 4: that actually will throw him the ball because there were
Speaker 4: opportunities when he was open and he just wasn't getting
Speaker 4: a fair chance to make a play on the ball.
Speaker 4: And I think I agree with that from you, Amber,
Speaker 4: I don't know that I think he's he's ready to assume.
Speaker 4: Nor should the Cowboys go into this year expecting him
Speaker 4: to be their number two receiver or number three receiver.
Speaker 4: I think they should see what he can do in
Speaker 4: training camp. But my expectation is that given an opportunity
Speaker 4: with a more accurate quarterback, I think he can be
Speaker 4: better than what he's been to this point in his career.
Speaker 2: I'm interested to see if that can help.
Speaker 4: And I will say this too, I like what he
Speaker 4: does from a blocking standpoint. If you're going to be
Speaker 4: a team that's gonna run the ball as much as
Speaker 4: they say they're going to run the ball, you're gonna
Speaker 4: need that on the perimeter. I think he'll be a
Speaker 4: valueblastt from that standpoint.
Speaker 7: We could put Zach Martin's number on him and he could.
Speaker 2: Get a little tackle.
Speaker 4: There you go, there you go, hey real quick though,
Speaker 4: And this is this is more on the on the
Speaker 4: draft side. There are two names at receiver that that
Speaker 4: I keep hearing as first round possible guys that the
Speaker 4: Cowboys could take. Tech McMillan and Matthew Golden. You guys
Speaker 4: have a preference between those two or if you have
Speaker 4: another receiver outside of Travis Hunter, obviously that's a first
Speaker 4: round type guy that you think the Cowboys should really
Speaker 4: be looking at if they're on the board at that
Speaker 4: first pick at number twelve.
Speaker 3: My preference is Tech McMillan. He's the only true receiver
Speaker 3: that I have with the first round grade. I see
Speaker 3: this guy as a Michael Thomas type of weapon here
Speaker 3: at the NFL level, elite possession skills, long, big frame.
Speaker 3: I do wonder how he would stack up in the
Speaker 3: twenty three guys, just because the twenty three receiver class
Speaker 3: was so loaded, But I still think he would end
Speaker 3: up being a top fifteen pick in that class, and
Speaker 3: I think he lands in the same range this time around.
Speaker 3: He was a guy that was the number one volleyball
Speaker 3: player in the country coming out of high school because
Speaker 3: of his vertical ability at Yan him being Hawaii, and
Speaker 3: he definitely has the volleyball in his blood. But I
Speaker 3: covered him at Anaheim Servid High School when he was
Speaker 3: when he was coming to high school. Yeah, this is
Speaker 3: the perfect class. The next year of even more perfect.
Speaker 3: I'm just lucky, and to be honest, but he has
Speaker 3: had the same quarterback since early high school, which I
Speaker 3: think is fascinating. I think that might be one period
Speaker 3: of you know, transition that he'll have here at the
Speaker 3: NFL level. But everything I know about this kid is
Speaker 3: that he's intentional. He's at the facility, first one in,
Speaker 3: last one out. He's one of the guys you want
Speaker 3: to have in a locker room and you pair that
Speaker 3: with his skill. I think he has shown that he
Speaker 3: has long speed based on what he did at his
Speaker 3: own individual pro day. He had a couple of games
Speaker 3: this year where he was able to get vertical and
Speaker 3: beat some faster corners over the top and create some
Speaker 3: explosion plays.
Speaker 5: I'm a tech McMillan guy.
Speaker 3: He makes fifty to fifty balls eighty twenty, he does,
Speaker 3: and he hasn't made. The Cowboys have not had a
Speaker 3: true possession receiver like this since Des Bryant, and I
Speaker 3: think this would be a perfect pick at twelve.
Speaker 6: If he's got Chris Beam with the b roll.
Speaker 7: No, he's got them all for sure, you know, since
Speaker 7: he focused. I do love McMillan. I agree with that.
Speaker 7: I'll tell you about Golden then Golden was to transfer
Speaker 7: from Houston. This guy is explosive, He's dynamic, can play
Speaker 7: all the receiver positions. He does a really nice job
Speaker 7: separating through coverage with his ability to accelerate out of
Speaker 7: his breaks. He does a fine job of selling routes.
Speaker 7: There's some questions about him as a route runner. You
Speaker 7: could see the fear of God in cornerbacks when they
Speaker 7: play this guy, especially off and he's closing cushion and
Speaker 7: then he sells that route. He can go up the field,
Speaker 7: he can come back for the ball, he can drive
Speaker 7: the defenders off. He's played outside, he plays you see
Speaker 7: right here, he's played in the slot. It's you know,
Speaker 7: he's It's just allowed him to become a small, skilled receiver.
Speaker 7: He could shift gears quickly in space. He can click
Speaker 7: off really nice gains. You watch him in the playoff
Speaker 7: games down the stretch, and he was a big factor
Speaker 7: in why Texas was able to advance as far as
Speaker 7: they did. You know, quinn Ewers is a guy that
Speaker 7: sometimes can get you the ball and sometimes he can't
Speaker 7: get you the ball. But this guy was would do
Speaker 7: a great job of going up and getting it. You
Speaker 7: talk about McMillan is one of the best receivers in
Speaker 7: the country on those Knick's right, eighty twenty is exactly
Speaker 7: right because he's gonna go get it. But this guy
Speaker 7: is right up there with with Millan McMillan when it
Speaker 7: comes to going up and getting the football at its
Speaker 7: highest point.
Speaker 5: Fourth and thirteen, baby, yep, fourth and thirteen, go back to.
Speaker 7: This guy's a big time player. You know, the Texas
Speaker 7: people will tell you and Derek will tell you too
Speaker 7: that everybody was talking about Bond, Bond, Bond, but then
Speaker 7: you watch the tape and you're like, well, who's this
Speaker 7: number two?
Speaker 4: And early in the season, Bond was the guy. As
Speaker 4: the season war on, right, Golden became the man.
Speaker 7: Golden became much more of a a more of a
Speaker 7: guy for them. But yeah, he will go up. He
Speaker 7: tracks the ball. Well, you know, he is a he's
Speaker 7: a big time player. And you know, if you follow
Speaker 7: the list of thirty visit stuff. So I know, we
Speaker 7: don't really get into that much, you know, on this show,
Speaker 7: but you know they're bringing in all these guys, these
Speaker 7: wide receivers, so they're clearly hunting the guy.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 4: All right, we're gona take our final break. When we
Speaker 4: come back, we'll dive a little bit into the tight
Speaker 4: end position. Let's talk about Jake Ferguson and kind of
Speaker 4: what we think of where he is in his development.
Speaker 4: I know we've had a little bit of conversation on that,
Speaker 4: but I want to talk about specific is he in
Speaker 4: danger at this point of maybe not being the starting guy?
Speaker 2: Has Schoonmaker developed? Does he continue to develop?
Speaker 4: I think those are all conversations worth having We'll have
Speaker 4: when we come back at Stallas Cowboys dot com radio.
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Speaker 4: We're in the final segment of the Break live from
Speaker 4: the SWBC Mortgage studios.
Speaker 2: At the Star.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the tight end position. I know we
Speaker 4: had the conversation. I think it was last week or
Speaker 4: week before. I think it was a question that you
Speaker 4: posed Danber of what we thought of Jake Ferguson and
Speaker 4: whether we thought he had a down year. I think
Speaker 4: everybody across the table pretty much agreed that they didn't
Speaker 4: think he had his best year. That being concerned, how
Speaker 4: concerned are you with the overall help of the tight
Speaker 4: end position at this point?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting position group because I think you
Speaker 3: could look at it on one hand and say, hey,
Speaker 3: it doesn't need addressing. You have Jake Ferguson, He's going
Speaker 3: to be fully healthy going into twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5: He has depth. You finally have blockers in that room too.
Speaker 5: It could work out.
Speaker 3: Then, on the other hand, you could see how there's
Speaker 3: a potential for that room to get really thin, really
Speaker 3: quick by just one guy getting injured during the season.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, this is not a position I
Speaker 3: would foresee, you know, spending a draft pick on maybe
Speaker 3: late in the draft. I could see it late Day three, like, hey,
Speaker 3: you have one of these six seventh round compensatory picks,
Speaker 3: but Jake Ferguson is still your tight end one. I
Speaker 3: don't think he's done anything to relinquish that role, but
Speaker 3: you do you would like to see him either return
Speaker 3: to his twenty twenty three production or uptick that into
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, and a fully healthy dok Prescott will help.
Speaker 3: But you know, when you take into context Jake Ferguson,
Speaker 3: you have to take into context the Week one injury
Speaker 3: he suffered the knees brain against Cleveland kept him out
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks, and then the concussion that he
Speaker 3: suffered in the middle of the season that was tough
Speaker 3: on him. So he just battled various things throughout the year,
Speaker 3: and you know, as more tight ends got involved in
Speaker 3: the in the offense, and you know what was Schoonmaker's role.
Speaker 3: One week's Schoonmaker's not playing any snaps. The next week
Speaker 3: he's starting and looks good, and so he's out of
Speaker 3: the doghouse. I think just consistency for Luke Schoonmaker will
Speaker 3: be big too.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it really for Ferguson, here's the word consistency again.
Speaker 7: But you look at what happening against me. He comes
Speaker 7: back in week three against the Ravens, and you know,
Speaker 7: he put up big numbers, six catches for ninety five yards.
Speaker 7: A couple of weeks later they're playing Pittsburgh, he has
Speaker 7: six catches for seventy yards. And then from that point
Speaker 7: on it really really was a struggle. Yes, the targets
Speaker 7: were not as much as we've seen in the past.
Speaker 7: You know, for him, he went from a guy that
Speaker 7: was kind of a double digit target guy. Guy maybe
Speaker 7: got seven eight targets, and then it became more like
Speaker 7: three and two and four. You know, it was just
Speaker 7: not as many and and uh, you know, the level
Speaker 7: of play just kind of just kind of faded off.
Speaker 7: And then while he was out, you know, Luke Schoonmaker
Speaker 7: was able. That I think was the positive thing that
Speaker 7: Luke Schoonmaker did show, like that he was able to
Speaker 7: handle the role when when given that opportunity, Is Luke
Speaker 7: Schoonmaker going to replace Jake Ferguson. I think that's probably
Speaker 7: not the case right now, but you know, yeah, they
Speaker 7: they they need to figure out what happened to Jake Ferguson,
Speaker 7: and like, let's say the stuff the time that he missed,
Speaker 7: you know, was was key. He was banged up, but
Speaker 7: they need to get his targets back up because the
Speaker 7: player that the player that we saw against the Ravens,
Speaker 7: even though that was you know, a game that was
Speaker 7: very close at the end, you know, you know, it
Speaker 7: could have you know, I could say the Cowboys could
Speaker 7: have found a way there. But he had a really
Speaker 7: good game against a very very good defense, and I
Speaker 7: think that's the kind of player Pittsburgh the same way,
Speaker 7: good defense, and he had a very good game, so
Speaker 7: very very capable that they need to kind of unlock
Speaker 7: why we didn't see more of those.
Speaker 6: I think Jake will have a better season than what
Speaker 6: it was last year. I mean, you talk about him
Speaker 6: and you mentioned that video. You see him working out
Speaker 6: and then he's recovering and all of that. So I
Speaker 6: expect him to be in full health once the season
Speaker 6: starts and him to be able to contribute a lot
Speaker 6: more and get back to that football shape that he
Speaker 6: was the year prior, where you saw a guy that
Speaker 6: was super utilized on the offense. And it was odd
Speaker 6: to me that last year, Mike McCarthy, he wasn't really
Speaker 6: getting much help from the tight ends, like really utilizing
Speaker 6: that to their advantage. In years that you see in
Speaker 6: like Dak Prescott when he was in there, he always
Speaker 6: finds some comfort in tight ends. I don't know, I
Speaker 6: do expect him to be better. And also with Luke,
Speaker 6: what is this year three that he's going into third season?
Speaker 6: I thought he improved last year from what he was
Speaker 6: his rookie season, and I know he dealt with some
Speaker 6: injuries that the first year, So I think that he's
Speaker 6: continuously what's the word. Yeah, I guess I was looking
Speaker 6: for a more fancier, like a fancier word. But he's
Speaker 6: consistently getting better, which you love to see. But now
Speaker 6: he needs to take a bigger step and make that jump.
Speaker 6: But I think he can still contribute. I agree with
Speaker 6: Nick and like, you need somebody else to come in here,
Speaker 6: because if you say Jake is out for the season
Speaker 6: or whatever reason, then you start, hey, you start really
Speaker 6: getting worried there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you hope you get a full season of John
Speaker 3: Stevens and I coming off of back to back ACLS,
Speaker 3: you can really only expect so much. And he's been
Speaker 3: a camp he roll these last two years and that's
Speaker 3: but that's basically been it.
Speaker 5: But you hope you can see him on the field
Speaker 5: a little bit.
Speaker 3: What can he bring from a receiving standpoint, because you
Speaker 3: have your two blocking tight ends and Luke Schoonmaker and
Speaker 3: Brevin span Ford. You know what can John Stevens bring
Speaker 3: you in the receiving department? You'd hope you have that
Speaker 3: at least to fall back on if there was a
Speaker 3: Jake Ferguson injury.
Speaker 4: What what is it that Schoonmaker needs to do or
Speaker 4: could do that would elevate him beyond where he is
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 2: I know last year run after catch that were good,
Speaker 2: but at that catch.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the guy if you if you look at his numbers,
Speaker 7: he's generally a two for two, four for four, six
Speaker 7: for six. He's six for six for fifty six yards.
Speaker 7: You know, the thing that makes Jake Ferguson so inviting
Speaker 7: is a run after catch like is he's bouncing off guys,
Speaker 7: jumping over guys, spinning off guys.
Speaker 2: Really is taken by the down by the first guy there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what I'm saying with Luke schoon Maker. You
Speaker 7: do get receptions, you do you know the hands, you know,
Speaker 7: early in his career he there's probably some pro albums there.
Speaker 7: There was a couple of seam passes that went off
Speaker 7: his hands, and Dak is one of the better seam throwers.
Speaker 5: In the league.
Speaker 7: But I think that Luke Schoonmaker has shown that he's
Speaker 7: capable now of catching the football. But the thing that's
Speaker 7: different between him and Jake Ferguson is run after catch,
Speaker 7: So when you get the opportunity if you get six
Speaker 7: targets to make six catches have more than fifty six yards,
Speaker 7: you know. I think that's the biggest difference. That's the
Speaker 7: thing he can improve on. Can he can he improve
Speaker 7: on his quickness, his agility and his ability to break tackles.
Speaker 4: This team's going to be a good heavy run team,
Speaker 4: as we suspect they will be. How capable is this
Speaker 4: tight end group of providing what they need as blockers?
Speaker 4: We've talked a lot about what they can do as
Speaker 4: pass catchers, but as blockers, are they capable of being
Speaker 4: what this team will need?
Speaker 5: I think they're capable.
Speaker 3: And this is probably where the Mike McCarthy influence kind
Speaker 3: of still has residual effect, just because he was very
Speaker 3: emphatic on having these tight ends on the field all
Speaker 3: the time and especially in run blocking situations. They have
Speaker 3: the reps to be a young room. They do have
Speaker 3: the reps in the run blocking category. Jake Ferguson has
Speaker 3: gotten better as a run blocker and he's three seasons.
Speaker 3: Luke Schoonmaker brought in to do that and he's done
Speaker 3: well with that. There's at times he's been you know,
Speaker 3: off his assignment, but you look at the back half
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four and what he was able to
Speaker 3: do in that department was great. Brevin span Ford, he
Speaker 3: earned a roster spot because of that. They even throw
Speaker 3: a hunterd lip in situations where he can be a
Speaker 3: tight end run blocker in some areas too. I don't
Speaker 3: I don't have concerns about this this room right now
Speaker 3: as far as being able to run block, whereas a
Speaker 3: year ago I would have said, yeah, I'm a little
Speaker 3: I'm a little worried about it. And that's a credit
Speaker 3: to Lunda Wells, and that's a credit to Mike McCarthy
Speaker 3: at the end of the day too.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I totally agree with it because if you're looking
Speaker 7: for that run blocking tight end, and I guarantee you
Speaker 7: Nick's looked at a thousand players, so he's probably got
Speaker 7: a run blocking tight end in his arsenal there.
Speaker 5: But enough for you.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the majority of these guys, like you say, there's
Speaker 7: another Ferguson in this draft at Oregon. I mean they've
Speaker 7: got Arroyo from Miami, They've got guys Fanning Helm from Texas.
Speaker 7: You know, these are guys that are more conducive to
Speaker 7: catching the ball than they are blocking. So you know,
Speaker 7: the development of a blocking group is going to have
Speaker 7: to come. I think within this, within these.
Speaker 6: Walls, and I think it will. I mean, I thought
Speaker 6: I the whole blocking I did think it improved since
Speaker 6: the year prior. And when you look at you mentioned Lunda,
Speaker 6: who was it? I mentioned Lunda? You mentioned Lunda Nick
Speaker 6: and he's what the only guy that remained here from
Speaker 6: the prior regime other than Scottenheimer getting promoted to head coach.
Speaker 6: So that tells you something. I thought that a lot
Speaker 6: of these younger guys, even though it's not at the
Speaker 6: level where we all really feel super confident, it's still
Speaker 6: you saw a lot of improvement. And we got to
Speaker 6: keep in mind these guys are still really young, like
Speaker 6: they're still in their first second heading into their third
Speaker 6: year in the NFL. This this is the year where
Speaker 6: they need to all take that for the next step.
Speaker 6: But again, I'm putting youth into account. I'm putting into Okay,
Speaker 6: last year, I did see some development. I didn't see
Speaker 6: regression from anybody other than Jake Ferguson due to injury,
Speaker 6: and we talked about that already, So I think that
Speaker 6: this year this group should look a lot better.
Speaker 7: Scheme will help. If they're going to pin and pull
Speaker 7: and stuff and angle block and things like that, and
Speaker 7: they don't have to fight guys one on one, they'll
Speaker 7: be better at run blocking as a group.
Speaker 3: I got one for you, Jackson Hawes out of Georgia Tech.
Speaker 3: Now's there's your run block.
Speaker 7: I knew, I knew you had a guy.
Speaker 2: What round?
Speaker 3: I think you get up seventh, potentially undrafted, but I
Speaker 3: think he's the best run blocking guy in the draft
Speaker 3: as far as tight ends go.
Speaker 16: And if you gets HWS literally all he does h
Speaker 16: A W E S yes, yeah six. I will say
Speaker 16: this based on what we've seen two thousand dollars for him,
Speaker 16: I would expect that this tight end group is probably
Speaker 16: one of the groups the Cowboys least worried about.
Speaker 4: When you just talk about personnel and bodies that they have.
Speaker 4: I think they feel pretty good. They should feel pretty
Speaker 4: good about the tight end position.
Speaker 7: Sure.
Speaker 2: All in all, all right, appreciate you guys.
Speaker 7: Jones.
Speaker 4: We're back next Wednesday. We're heading it into the draft.
Speaker 4: We got two weeks before.
Speaker 13: UH.
Speaker 4: The draft will begin on Thursday night. UH so next
Speaker 4: week we'll do a little bit of time. We'll spend
Speaker 4: a little time talking about draft and here, well you
Speaker 4: guys ready for that and until the end for Harris
Speaker 4: and brought us Ambergracia, Derek Eiglton. This has been the
Speaker 4: Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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