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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahada Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick. We are

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas for the GM meetings. It is I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's hot stove season in a sense. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: can actually sign, trades, can be made, all that good stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing, nothing big has happened yet, but this is

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Speaker 1: where the groundwork is laid. You and I like to

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, we come to the GM meetings

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Speaker 1: and it kind of sets us up for what we

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Speaker 1: kind of plan for the entire off season. And I

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Speaker 1: guess we had our first you know chat with Jed

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Speaker 1: Hoyer of the GM meetings really of the off season

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Speaker 1: outside of that, you know, the season wrap up, and

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Speaker 1: I guess what stood out to me was, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we we asked about the budget, we ask about money.

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Speaker 1: He's not going to give us exact answers there, but

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Speaker 1: unlike it felt like last season, immediately it was like,

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Speaker 1: don't waste your time on the big, big money free agents.

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Speaker 1: That that's almost like you get that Bob immediately talking

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Speaker 1: to Jed last year this year very different and I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying that you know they're going to be aggressive

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Speaker 1: at the top of the market, but him not shooting

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Speaker 1: down those ideas and then quickly answering a question about

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Speaker 1: qualifying offers guys with qualifying offers. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: at midim you can kind of read him right it's

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Speaker 1: like he's having in hauing thinking about how he should

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Speaker 1: answer that question. He said, no, that's not going to

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Speaker 1: be a hurdle essentially, and in signing a guy that

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Speaker 1: that's not something that they're thinking. I think those that's

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Speaker 1: interesting and it's pitching. It was very clear about that.

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Speaker 1: Pitching is you know their focus right now and they're

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Speaker 1: going to be active. And I don't know if i'd

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Speaker 1: use the word impressive, but active is. It was a

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Speaker 1: word we heard multiple times between both Jed and Carter Hawkins.

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Speaker 2: Jed put it this way, right of.

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Speaker 3: The Cubs could go play a game tomorrow if they

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Speaker 3: had to, particularly on the position player side, meaning they

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Speaker 3: have to get better on the pitching side. That was

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Speaker 3: kind of a direct quote from him, and I had

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Speaker 3: the same reaction when you asked Jed that about the

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Speaker 3: qualifying offer, because oftentimes a lot of the best free

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Speaker 3: agents are attached to those qualifying offers.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 3: Normally you get kind of a Jed WinCE or like

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Speaker 3: a Jed turned his head to the side and squint

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Speaker 3: and think about it, and this is not an issue,

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Speaker 3: which you know.

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Speaker 2: I was surprised at how quickly he just went there.

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Speaker 3: I thought there might be a well, it's baked into

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Speaker 3: every calculation, YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 1: This was okay.

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Speaker 3: And there are lots of interesting pictures attached to qualifying offers,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that I don't want to read too

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Speaker 3: much into body language or tone of answers, but we've

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Speaker 3: been to enough GM meetings and Winter meetings when you

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Speaker 3: know that the cubs are handcuffed that you can you

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Speaker 3: can hear whispers, you can see how they carry themselves.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, Jedd and THEO.

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Speaker 3: For a long time, we're used to kind of being

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Speaker 3: major players at these meetings, the ones who were involved

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Speaker 3: in the biggest deals that they had their hands and all.

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Speaker 2: Sorts of potential blockbusters.

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Speaker 3: And at a certain point there after the twenty sixteen

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Speaker 3: World Series, they were much stuck just kind of hanging

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Speaker 3: around the hotel suites, not really sure what they can

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Speaker 3: do or just kind of, you know, crossing their fingers

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Speaker 3: see if they could trade someone to open up something else.

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Speaker 3: This is pretty close to a blank canvas, and I

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Speaker 3: think they definitely feel that energy.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking with with another writer, a non

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Speaker 1: comes writer, and just talking about like, you know, is

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Speaker 1: it hard when your team doesn't do anything. He was

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Speaker 1: trying to understand, like, I'm so bored with my team

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Speaker 1: that I'm covering, And I was thinking, like after that

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen season when when they really stopped going hard

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Speaker 1: after free agents, it was kind of it gets kind

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Speaker 1: of tough in the off season. It's like you're chasing

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Speaker 1: down Daniel Descauso free agency rumors and great guy, but

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Speaker 1: not the most exciting fre agent decide. So this is

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Speaker 1: like and you know they're obviously the Tucker trade last

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Speaker 1: year made it an exciting offseason, but there were no

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Speaker 1: we knew that, like shopping at the top was not happening.

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Speaker 1: So it makes it at least makes our jobs a

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Speaker 1: little bit more fun of trying to chase down Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe they are, maybe they are interested in these guys

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Speaker 1: that we had kind of been like, Okay, they made sense.

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Speaker 1: But will the Tubs go there? And I and I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't too far Cranbervel does, don't C's they fit the

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Speaker 1: Cubs really well?

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: They make a lot of sense for the Cubs, both

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Speaker 1: the you know, for different reasons. Dylan Ceas has the

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Speaker 1: stuff and swinging mis capabilities the Cubs, uh black at

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Speaker 1: that front office, doesn't I mean that that rotation doesn't

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Speaker 1: have that Branbervelt does? You know? He strikes hers out

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Speaker 1: a decent rate, but he's ultra consistent, pitches a ton

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Speaker 1: of innings. Uh and and he uh and he gets

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Speaker 1: a ton of ground balls. You put that in front

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Speaker 1: of the Cub's defense, it makes a ton of sense,

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Speaker 1: Like that's a cy young contender immediately. Uh. I think

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Speaker 1: the drawback with Branberveldez is this is a guy that

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Speaker 1: like he's pitched deep into October every year, He's pitched

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Speaker 1: a ton of innings and he's in his thirties. Like,

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Speaker 1: did the Cubs want to give up a draft pick

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Speaker 1: and give six years togact that five or six years

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Speaker 1: and wondering like that doesn't sound very Cubs, Like dn't

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Speaker 1: see Dylan Cee really sounds like it like it sounds

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Speaker 1: like a fit. Again, the Cub's going to set the

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Speaker 1: markets for this guy. That's where I start to to

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Speaker 1: pull back. But you know, when you start looking at everything,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's you know, there are opportunities for them

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Speaker 1: to go big with pitching, and I wouldn't I don't

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Speaker 1: think unlike years past, I don't think we'll be surprised

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Speaker 1: if they reel in a pretty big name or or

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Speaker 1: spend aggressively. Do they hand out four of those contracts?

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Speaker 1: No one. I don't think it's going to shock anyone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean another name out there, Tatsuya am I.

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Speaker 3: I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, but a younger pitcher

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Speaker 3: coming over from Japan. And you know, Cubs officials, while

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Speaker 3: not talking directly about am I, acknowledge that they feel

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Speaker 3: like they have a competitive advantage there that there are

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Speaker 3: fewer teams operating in that space. They have an infrastructure

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Speaker 3: to help those players succeed on the field, as well

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Speaker 3: as a support system to help them assimilate off the field.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've heard the Cubs kind of involved or

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Speaker 3: planning to.

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Speaker 2: Be involved in that area with a my and.

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Speaker 3: Really there's a bunch of interesting players out there that

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Speaker 3: they're going to have to kind of continue to dig

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Speaker 3: in on, you know, Ranger Suarez, Zach Gallen, Michael King.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of good pictures out there that you know,

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Speaker 3: everyone needs pitching, but not everyone can you know, meet

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Speaker 3: you know, every player's wish list. And so I think

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Speaker 3: the Cubs are pretty good well positioned here.

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Speaker 2: I'm with you. I don't I think we're gonna hear

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Speaker 2: them in Framburgh a lot. I just don't know if

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Speaker 2: they'll go.

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Speaker 3: Max out for a guy in his thirties, like and

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Speaker 3: that's this actually kind of leads into our next segment

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Speaker 3: on show Day, ma Naga, Like you look at the

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Speaker 3: age of these pictures. That's why I think my will

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Speaker 3: make a lot of sense for the Cubs. Dylan sees

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Speaker 3: as well, kind of as youth on his side, durability stuff,

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Speaker 3: and even though the Cups have changed a lot since

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Speaker 3: he was drafted and in the minor leagues, he made

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Speaker 3: a really good impression on people in the organization in

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Speaker 3: terms of his uh you know, pitching, i Q, his.

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Speaker 2: Willingness to uh embrace uh you.

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Speaker 3: Know, his rehab process or some of the new technology

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Speaker 3: they had coming on online at that time.

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Speaker 2: Like, I think that's part of why you see this.

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Speaker 3: Energy from the Cups front office of knowing they have

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Speaker 3: a good team coming off first playoff trip.

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Speaker 2: You know, the president not being on the hot seat

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Speaker 2: in a lame duck year.

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Speaker 3: I think all of those things gives them this ability

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Speaker 3: to sort of like take a step back be you know,

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Speaker 3: even more precise with what they want to do.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, I mean, pitching is the focus. We kind

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Speaker 1: of felt that way starting in the playoffs and through

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. That was the vibe we're getting. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think Jared Horyer could be any clearer than he

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Speaker 1: was when we spoke to him that that that remains

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Speaker 1: the focus and the priority. Uh well, let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and talk about showdam and Aga, because that's

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Speaker 1: someone that obviously can get a bolster. They're pitching depth

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Speaker 1: and right now we'll see if what the chances are

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Speaker 1: of him returning to Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to North Side Territory. Patrick should it in

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Speaker 1: Monaga the last we recorded. I don't believe the Cubs

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Speaker 1: had offered him the qualifying offer yet it kind of

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Speaker 1: I guess we were. We weren't one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 1: on that at the time, but obviously it's been offered.

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Speaker 1: The question now is does he accepted it would be

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Speaker 1: around twenty two million am I right on that Yep,

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Speaker 1: you know, nearly recouping all of what he would that

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Speaker 1: two year option would have been for him. That he

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Speaker 1: like eight million short of that two that two year option.

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Speaker 1: Right now, the vibes are it doesn't sound like you

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Speaker 1: know that he's definitely picking that up. But you know,

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Speaker 1: things can change in the next couple of days. What

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Speaker 1: have you been hearing is is you walking around the

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Speaker 1: lobby and at the at the cosmopol out here in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, getting a lot of steps in of just randomly

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Speaker 3: wandering the casino floor and the lobbies and.

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Speaker 2: The uh, you know, coffee shops and restaurants here.

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Speaker 3: Jed Hoyer did make his first public comments about the

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Speaker 3: Shoda decisions uh and he insisted there's no hard feelings,

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Speaker 3: no bad blood on either side, saying the door is

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Speaker 3: open for Shoda to return. Obviously the Cubs are comfortable

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Speaker 3: with paying Shoda a really big number for one season

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Speaker 3: because of who he is as a person and a pitcher.

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Speaker 3: And also, look, this front office loves flexibility and that

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Speaker 3: the old baseball saying of like, there's no such thing

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Speaker 3: as a bad one year deal kind of applies in

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Speaker 3: this case.

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Speaker 2: The Cubs.

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Speaker 3: View showed his third year on that option as a

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Speaker 3: sticking point, and so that's kind of the if he

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Speaker 3: does return, I'd imagine it would be either on the

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Speaker 3: qualifying offer or.

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Speaker 2: If they somehow came up with a two year structure.

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Speaker 3: But obviously, you know, showed his betting on himself here

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Speaker 3: and thought that he could be two years and a

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Speaker 3: little over thirty million dollars. I think, you know, when

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Speaker 3: he came over from Japan, there were several teams interested

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Speaker 3: in none of them really jumped out the way the

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Speaker 3: Cubs did, and even the Cubs kind of benefited from

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Speaker 3: show to just being in the area training in the

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Speaker 3: Chicago Land area. And so you know, that initial group

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Speaker 3: of teams from his previous posting experience would be the

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Speaker 3: Red Sox, Giants, Padres Astros. And that's just kind of

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Speaker 3: the start of what you would think would be a

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Speaker 3: logical group of teams that could sort of circle back here.

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Speaker 3: Showed a went to the Cressey Sports Performance Facility in

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Speaker 3: Florida shortly after the season ended to get into their

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Speaker 3: pitch lab, get a you know, updated set of data

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Speaker 3: to be made available to teams and maybe lay some

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Speaker 3: concerns and answer some questions about what happened in the

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Speaker 3: second half of this year. As we record, I think

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Speaker 3: there's maybe a little under a week before Showed has

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Speaker 3: to make the decision on the qualifying offer, and you know,

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Speaker 3: his camp will be using the rest these GM meetings

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Speaker 3: the next several days to gauge that market and see

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Speaker 3: what what else is out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you look at we don't know what

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Speaker 1: the market is like yet. We just like, we don't

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Speaker 1: have a great feel for things until a couple of

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Speaker 1: deals are signed and then and then you have a

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Speaker 1: little bit better idea. Okay, pitching is going to be

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Speaker 1: expensive pitching, maybe there are some deals being whatever. And

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Speaker 1: last year, you know, a month, you know, about a

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Speaker 1: month into everything is when the Cubs signed Matthew Boyd

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Speaker 1: And that was two years I want to say it

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Speaker 1: was two years, twenty nine. And this is a guy

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Speaker 1: that was a guy coming off like forty innings pitched

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Speaker 1: or something like that, and he looked great, He looked

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Speaker 1: really good. But you know, you know, whatever is going

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Speaker 1: on with Show, to some team, you'd have to think

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Speaker 1: they know what he can do when he's at his best.

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Speaker 1: He's gone to Cressy as all this data, whatever is

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Speaker 1: going on there, there's going to be I think you

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Speaker 1: kind of you kind of nailed this early on. But

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some team that looks at him,

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Speaker 1: looks at those numbers, looks at that data, and says,

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Speaker 1: we we have the guys that can help him, We

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Speaker 1: know what needs to happen. We can help you, Showa,

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Speaker 1: we can get you back to who you were in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, whatever that may be. There's going to

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Speaker 1: be some group that believes, you know, two thirty five

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Speaker 1: is a deal or something like that. That's just my

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Speaker 1: guess when you look at how like, you know, three

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Speaker 1: four five years. Yeah, maybe Show is not getting that.

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Speaker 1: But can he beat the two year option? I think

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Speaker 1: is how you ultimately look at that, the option that

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Speaker 1: he declined. Can he beat that? I think there's a

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Speaker 1: decent chance when you consider how hard it is to

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Speaker 1: get pitching. Now the qualifying offer does gum things up? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Matthew Boyd did didn't have that, so maybe he that's

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Speaker 1: you know, that's part of it. Uh, it is something

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Speaker 1: that teams consider. It's not it's not a small thing.

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Speaker 1: So that does you know, we'll see what how big

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Speaker 1: that market is if it's those teams you mentioned. Uh,

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Speaker 1: those aren't you know, teams that are generally afraid to spend. Ah,

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Speaker 1: So it's a I don't know, it feels like there's

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Speaker 1: enough of a market that maybe, ah, you know, we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't expect him to accept that, and and he may

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Speaker 1: move on. But I also understand the point of view

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Speaker 1: that you know, what we're jazz coming from of of

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Speaker 1: the door is not closed like he couldn't, like on

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Speaker 1: a reasonable two year deal. I think that makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense for the Cups. Uh, he's he's comfortable there,

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Speaker 1: he's familiar with they're familiar with him, he's familiar with them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's some value to that if they feel like

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Speaker 1: they can get on the same page with everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with the way.

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Speaker 3: The Cubs operate, given the success showed ad in Chicago,

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Speaker 3: when there's still time for this stuff to develop, I

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Speaker 3: don't like to kind of rule anything in or out.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's not how the Cubs roll.

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Speaker 3: They want to keep their options open all the time

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Speaker 3: and not make any decisions until the last possible second.

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Speaker 3: I will say that Shoda is a proud, competitive individual

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Speaker 3: who feels like he has something to prove. He's someone

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Speaker 3: who's shown that he's very open to new environments and

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Speaker 3: being challenged and you know, wanting to conquer the next thing,

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Speaker 3: and you know, maybe that is somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: It's been.

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Speaker 3: Really a great partnership outside of disappointing September slash October.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's.

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Speaker 2: Still kind of.

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Speaker 3: Hard for me to like process how quickly like this happened.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're on I just stay on top of things.

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Speaker 3: I vividly remember being in San Francisco in late August

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Speaker 3: and council being asked about Showda and he gave this

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Speaker 3: amazing quote about how you know it's time to stop.

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Speaker 3: And we went through all these questions of you know,

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Speaker 3: how's he going to respond to this or how's he

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Speaker 3: gonna adjust to that, and that showeda has continually proven

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Speaker 3: himself as a competitor, you know, thinking man's pitcher. And

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Speaker 3: then September, you know, a couple of bad starts.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he loses a little bit of confidence.

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Speaker 3: I think the thinking is that his mechanics were slightly

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Speaker 3: off after that hamstring injury in the middle of the season,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, we we know Shoda as a

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Speaker 3: reason to watch Cups games, like his starts were events

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Speaker 3: there for a while. I think you see the Imanaga

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Speaker 3: jerseys at Wrigley Field.

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Speaker 2: He brought some charisma to that group.

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Speaker 3: And you know, when I asked Jed Hoyer how that

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Speaker 3: factor's in, you know, he said everything factors in, but

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Speaker 3: not super heavy.

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Speaker 2: I think was the term that he.

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Speaker 3: You know, his obligation, his job is to feel the

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Speaker 3: best team possible within the you know, budgetary constraints of

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Speaker 3: the franchise as well as like the parameters they set

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Speaker 3: as a Baseball operation groups in terms of how they

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Speaker 3: allocate years and dollars.

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Speaker 2: And that did not line up.

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Speaker 3: That three year option didn't line up for the Cubs

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Speaker 3: and showed up very quickly responded was saying, well, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to opt out too then, so it'll be I'd

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Speaker 3: imagine we probably get some resolution here that maybe he

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Speaker 3: would be one of the earlier signers.

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Speaker 2: But that's just me guessing.

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Speaker 3: Because as we've seen the some of these qualifying offer guys,

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Speaker 3: if they decline it, that draft of conversation could be

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Speaker 3: a real drag on their market. And they're lingering out

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Speaker 3: there a lot longer than anyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if they have a good feel for a market,

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Speaker 1: for the market and know what, Like you know, you're right,

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Speaker 1: like you don't want to linger out there. You want

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Speaker 1: to have a feel for the market and kind of

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Speaker 1: have something close or a good idea of where you'd

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Speaker 1: like to you know, some options. At least I do

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Speaker 1: like it. I agree with you. I'm like, it's like

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Speaker 1: been a swing of emotions and like, how do you

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Speaker 1: feel about showed him and Agen? It's happened so quickly

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Speaker 1: that I feel like I haven't really I don't feel

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Speaker 1: strongly about it because I just like it. It was

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Speaker 1: too drastic of a change. It went from like like

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Speaker 1: you said about what counsel was talking about, like you

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Speaker 1: trusted this guy implicitly to get the job done and

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Speaker 1: work through things and get through any difficult moments, to like, wow,

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Speaker 1: he really got lit up and looked off and like

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Speaker 1: both physically and mentally, nothing seemed right there. But an

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Speaker 1: off season of reset, you know, get the lower body

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Speaker 1: feeling right and strong. Who knows he can he could

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Speaker 1: look just like twenty twenty four for another year or two.

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Speaker 1: I do think like age is a factor and that

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Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense why they declined the

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Speaker 1: three years. We'll see, We'll see what type of picture

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Speaker 1: showdo Monaga becomes. If it's especially if it's elsewhere, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be We're gonna be keeping an eye on it

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Speaker 1: because is it like, was this the mistake that becomes

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Speaker 1: made or do they did they evaluate this right? Are they?

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Speaker 1: Are they good enough to continue to bring in pitching

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Speaker 1: and get through seasons with maybe not the biggest of names,

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Speaker 1: but uh, you know, solid pitching. It seems to they

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Speaker 1: always seem to outperform expectations with their pitchers. A lot

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Speaker 1: of that has to do with their defense. Maybe some

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Speaker 1: of it has to do with the way Brigley's played,

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Speaker 1: but that is that it's something that the Cubs have

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Speaker 1: succeeded it and like we started this out with, it

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Speaker 1: may not just be lesser known pitchers. We'll see where

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Speaker 1: the Cubs end up. This could be a fun offseason.

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Speaker 1: It could be an interesting off season. There could be

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Speaker 1: a big signing and it's going and when, if and

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Speaker 1: when it comes, it'll be on the pitching side. I

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Speaker 1: think we just need to continue to hammer that because

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Speaker 1: I do think some people saw the offense struggle at

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Speaker 1: times down the stretch and in the postseason at times.

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Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker is a free agent. Jed Hoyer just didn't

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Speaker 1: seem eager to talk about building around the offense or

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Speaker 1: adding anything significant there. So I think that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: an area where you know, they'll be opportunistic, as they

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Speaker 1: like to say, and then work around the edges. And

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Speaker 1: our focus remains pitching, pitching, pitching. We'll continue to dig

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Speaker 1: in and see what else, what other information we get

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Speaker 1: out here in Vegas. We'll we'll wrap up the GM

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Speaker 1: meetings later this week with another episode. But thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for listening to Northside Territory and make sure to rate, review, subscribe,

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic,

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Speaker 1: where Patrick and I are on top of all things comes.

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Speaker 1: Thanks everyone,