1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Just moments after taking 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: off on Thursday, an Air India flight bound for London 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: from an airport in western India crashed with over two 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: hundred passengers on board. The Boeing seven eighty seven Dreamliner 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: jet crashed into a dining hall at a medical school 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: while students were eating lunch. The cause is still unknown 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: and officials are still assessing the extent of the casualties, 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: though there are reports of at least one survivor. It's 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: the latest in a series of high profile commercial plane 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: crashes and safety incidents that have put passengers on edge, 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: and it's the first fatal crash to involve a Boeing 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: seven eighty seven Dreamliner, putting Boeing's safety record back in 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: the spotlight. Benedicaml at its Bloomberg's aviation coverage, and he 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: says the incident comes at a pivotal moment for Boeing, 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: whose new CEO has been trying to regain the public 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: trust after a series of safety incidents involving the company's planes. 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: All of these things he's done. Whether this will now 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: get sabotaged by this accidents too soon to say A 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: lot of that will ride on what conclusions we can 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: draw from the accident. 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder and this is the big take from 22 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News today on the show What we know so 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: far about the Air India tragedy, What the Dreamliner crash 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: means for Boeing and for the commercial aviation industry. So, Benedict, 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. What do we 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: know about the Air India crash so far? 27 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: So this aircraft, which is a Boeing seven eight to 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: seven Dreamline, it's a fairly advanced plane, almost twelve years old. 29 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: This is a plane that crashed just after taking off 30 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: in India. It was bound for London Gatwick Airport, was 31 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: due to land that tonight. Had two hundred and forty 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: two people on board, that is and crew two very 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: experienced pilots, and footage that we've seen so far indicates 34 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: that the plane was still in takeoff mode, very low 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: off the ground, just sort of over a couple of 36 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: houses and then sort of started descending again. It almost 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: looked as if it were landing. But then the next 38 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: image you see on the footage is of a giant 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: plume of smoke and essentially the plane going up in 40 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: a huge ball of flames. All we know is that 41 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: it doesn't look like it was sort of an external 42 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: strike of some sort. 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: Well, what do we know about the extent of the 44 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: casualties at this point in the day, both on the 45 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: plane and on the ground. 46 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: The plane did crash into a very densely populated part 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: of the city, and so you can expect fully fueled, 48 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: fully loaded seven eight seven, which is a huge aircraft 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: landing or crashing into a residential area that will lead 50 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: to casualties on the ground as well. The first proper 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: official figure that we got from authorities was that just 52 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: over two hundred people and bodies have been retrieved from 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: the wreckage. Now, of those, we don't know how many 54 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: were on the plane, how many might have been people 55 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: on the ground, But obviously this is a huge number 56 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: and you should expect that number to rise. 57 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: There's a lot we don't know about what actually caused 58 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: this crash. But what do we know so far based 59 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: on the data we got from the plane before it 60 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: went down. 61 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: So we know that the plane was in takeoff mode 62 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: and it had just started its ascent, so it was 63 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: about six hundred feet in the air at that point. 64 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: It's twin engine aircraft. We don't know whether the engines 65 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: were fully functional, or whether one of the engines had failed, 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: or maybe even both of the engines at that point 67 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: of the departure. This is generally considered one of the 68 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: riskier moments of an aircraft journey. It's the takeoff and 69 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: the landing part where most things can go wrong. The 70 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: plane is fully loaded, the plane is fully fueled, it's 71 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: very heavy. The airport from where it was taking off 72 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: is known to how have a bit of a bird issue. 73 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: There are large flocks of birds in the vicinity. Now 74 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 2: this is pure speculation. We have absolutely no indication yet 75 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: that birds strike, as it's called, was a cause here, 76 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: But this is something that the authorities will be looking at. 77 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: The footage does not seem to reveal an obvious engine fault. 78 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes in the past, when you have seen engines failing, 79 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: you see flames bursting out of the back or a 80 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: plume of smoke coming out of the engine. That's not 81 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: the case here. So we have what looks like a 82 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: clean takeoff. It looks like the main flaps of the 83 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: wings are not extended, so you have a clean aircraft. 84 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: The other big thing that will help is the retrieval 85 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: of what's called the black boxes. So those are the 86 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: data recorders that store the main flight parameters. Those are 87 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: the recorders that store the cockpit conversations, and those usually 88 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: give very good clues as to what might have happened. 89 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: One final thing to add is there was a may 90 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: day call from the cockpit shortly after takeoff. We don't 91 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: know what it said, but clearly the pilot, who we 92 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: know was very experienced, saw that something was dramatically wrong 93 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: and that led to the may day call. All these 94 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: things will have to get read out. Typically these types 95 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: of investigations can take days, if not months, for a 96 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 2: proper readout and then a final report that can really 97 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: take a long time. 98 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: It's a horrible tragedy. When is the last time an 99 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: airplane crash of this scale happened? 100 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: You really have to look quite far back, and more 101 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: than ten years. So there was the Malaysian Airlines aircraft 102 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: MH seventeen that was shot down over Ukraine by suspected 103 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: Russian missile that caused almost three hundred deaths, and then 104 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: Air India has not had a tragedy of this scale 105 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: all the way back to the mid nineteen eighties, and 106 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: that really gives you an indication of how rare these 107 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: occurrences are. We have had an increase in air accidents 108 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: in the last couple of months, and looking back into 109 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,239 Speaker 2: the last year, there has in a greater number of those. 110 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 2: But overall, this remains a very safe mode of travel. 111 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: But people, obviously, when they see this, they think that 112 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: this is something that is on the rise. There are 113 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: more incidents, there are more accidents, but something of this 114 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: scale with more than two hundred dead people with a modern, 115 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: very well maintained aircraft with an experienced crew, that obviously 116 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: is an anomaly. Typically, what happens in these scenarios is 117 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 2: that the crash investigators take over. So you will have 118 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: the local investigators leading the charge. You will have police, 119 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: you will have the army, you will have a salvage mission. 120 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: First of all, all the focus and right now will 121 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: be on can we find survivors and then can we 122 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: retrieve parts of the wreckage that will help us solve 123 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: what led to this. So the NTSB, which is the 124 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: US investigating authority, they are dispatching a team there. The 125 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: FAA they're doing the same. Boeing will surely have a 126 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: team they will send over that. So this is very 127 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: much sort of a technical analysis this point. Erindia obviously 128 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: will have the role, should we say, with the more 129 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: humanitarian side of this, to really look after families who 130 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: are now wondering might my relative on the plane have survived, 131 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: and to people who have, you know, the sad assurance 132 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: that people have not survived, to look after them. But 133 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: really the focus right now is on search and rescue, 134 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: retrieval and everything else follows. 135 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: After that, after the break Boeing's safety record and how 136 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: the Dreamliner crash could add to growing passenger anxiety about 137 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: airline safety. I'm sitting down with Bloomberg's Benedict Camel in 138 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: the wake of the Air India tragedy. Benedict, let's talk 139 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: about what all this means for Boeing, because it's just 140 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: the latest in a string of safety issues on Boeing planes. 141 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: One recent, much less serious issue I'm thinking of happened 142 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: last year when the door of a Boeing plane headed 143 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: from Oregon to California came off mid flight. So many 144 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: viral videos of that. Can you refresh us on Boeing's 145 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: recent safety record. 146 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: Yes, and the safety record has obviously been problematic for Boeing. 147 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: You reference this one example, and yes there were no 148 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: fatalities in that incident, but it really sort of blew 149 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: the cover, as it were, off the safety lapses at Boeing, 150 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: at the manufacturing lapses, and it really led the public 151 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: but also authorities to rethink a sort of Boeing safety 152 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 2: standards and their manufacturing standards. So Boeing really slogged through 153 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: a very very difficult year after that. They had a 154 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: cap of the number of aircraft that they can produce. 155 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: The FAA said, you can make thirty eight seven three 156 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: sevens at a maximum per month. No more than that. 157 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: We want to make sure that you've got your sequencies 158 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: in your factory set up. We don't want you to 159 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 2: rush things. It cost Boing huge amounts of customer trust. 160 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: It cost Boing both with the public but also with 161 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: aline customers. It costs them huge amounts of money They 162 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: had to go to the market and raise and all 163 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 2: of this happened after two fatal crashes towards the end 164 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen one In twenty nineteen, so Boeing has 165 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: had a sequence of events that really, as I said, 166 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: shone the spotlight on the manufacturing, on the systems at 167 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: Boeing that were really subpar. This event here involves a 168 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: different aircraft. The ones I just reference were all about 169 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: the seven three seven as a sort of small Boeing 170 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: that most of us go on for short hops from 171 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: one city to the next. This is the seven eight 172 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 2: seven Dreamliner that's usually used on long international routes. So 173 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 2: this is the first time that Boeing or an airliner 174 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: has lost a seven eight seven. 175 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me more about that aircraft that was involved 176 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: in this crash, the Boeing seven eighty seven eight Dreamliner. 177 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: What is its safety record? What do we know about 178 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: that aircraft? 179 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: Well, this aircraft's safety record has lately been really stellar. 180 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: It's a very popular aircraft for a number of reasons. 181 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 2: It has a good size, so popular on long routes. 182 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: More than one thousand units have been sold. It had 183 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: a shaky start when it was introduced, or even before 184 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: it was introduced in twenty eleven, because it really pushed 185 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: the envelope on a lot of the technology. But once 186 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: it was out it did mainly very well. It was 187 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: briefly grounded because of some issues with batteries and the 188 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: fear of that they might catch fire. But once that 189 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: issue was out of the way, this is an aircraft 190 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: that has done very well. It's really sold in very 191 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: large numbers, and it has a really good safety record 192 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: and the fact that no seven eighty seven has ever 193 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: been lost in an accent is testament to that. So 194 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 2: it's a very important aircraft for Boeing. It makes a 195 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: lot of cash for the company. The seven three seven 196 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: Max took on sort of the image of a not 197 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: so trustworthy aircraft. That's not been the case with the 198 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 2: seven eight seven that's still considered sort of gold standard 199 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: in its class. 200 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: Well. A former Boeing worker, John Barnett, did raise concerns 201 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: about the Dreamliner. What were those concerns? 202 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: He's not the only one. There have been a number 203 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: of whistleblowers that have come out and have said the 204 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: way that Boeing assembles this aircraft is subpar, that cutting corners, 205 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: and that really the plane should be reviewed, that the 206 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: FAA should take a much closer look. A lot of 207 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: this goes back to sort of the interaction between the 208 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: authorities and Boeing. There was a sense that for too 209 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: long the FAA let Boeing sort of self police itself 210 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: and that they could really sort of look after their 211 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: own processes at the factories and could sign off on 212 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: them in some ways. And that really came to a 213 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: halt last year with this blowout that we talked about, 214 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: and where the FA really took a very hard look 215 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: at its own role and its interaction with Boeing. Then 216 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: put a lot more people on the ground at Boeing 217 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: really slowed things down. So whether this will reverse this trend, 218 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: and whether you know the trust that Boeing has rebuilt 219 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 2: in the last couple of months, because Bowing was really coming, 220 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: as I said, out of this very difficult year and 221 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 2: was only now sort of gaining traction again. The production 222 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: numbers were going up, the cash was building up again. 223 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: The new CEO, Kelly Ordberg, he was seen as a 224 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: steady hand. So if somehow this accident reveals and again 225 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: this is pure speculation at this point, we don't know, 226 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: and it's way too soon, but if somehow this were 227 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: to reveal that something was wrong with a plane, that 228 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: would obviously be a huge blow to Boeing. 229 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: Right well, Ortberg, as you said, was supposed to be 230 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: this steady hand new CEO that came into the position 231 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: just last year. What has he done to address these concerns. 232 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: Well, he's done a couple of things. One is sort 233 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: of maybe these less visible sort of internal communication where 234 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: he's told people it's fine to speak up if you 235 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: see something that's not right in the company. There was 236 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: a sense at Boeing that if you pointed out things 237 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: that weren't running smoothly, you'd get penalized. So orbo came 238 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: in and said, we need to slow things down, we 239 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: need to get this right. I'd rather we build fewer 240 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: planes or we build them properly. We need to rebuild 241 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: the trust of the public, of the customers. There was 242 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: a sense that Boeing was too fixated on its financial 243 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: performance and not really so much as engineering performance. He's 244 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: tried to sort of regain Boeing's engineering mantra. So all 245 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: of these things he's done. Whether this will now get 246 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: sabotaged by this accident, it's too soon to say. A 247 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: lot of that will ride on what conclusions we can 248 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 2: draw from the accident. 249 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: Given this context, given the safety issues, the passenger concerns, 250 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: and the company's recent efforts, could this crash mark a 251 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: tipping point for the company. 252 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: It might and you're seeing it to some degree in 253 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: the stock performance today, which is obviously that the shares 254 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: are hugely under pressure, and so are the shares of 255 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 2: General Electric, which makes the engines for this aircraft. So 256 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 2: if indeed it were to transpire that Boeing cut corners here, 257 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: that there was something wrong with the aircraft, there was 258 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: some sort of a failure, should we say, in the 259 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 2: design or in the way the plane was put together, 260 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 2: that would be a massive blow. But again we need 261 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: to be extremely careful here not to jump to any conclusions, 262 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: but this is obviously something that will be very much 263 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: on Boeing's mind. On the other hand, this is one 264 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: of two global aircraft manufacturers out there in the civil 265 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: aviation space, the other one being a bus So a 266 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: lot of people say, no matter what happens, Boeing's not 267 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: going to disappear. Yes, they will maybe enter another crisis, 268 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: but they will find their way out. They still make 269 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: products that people need and that people want, and there 270 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: isn't a third player out that. There are really only 271 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: two games in town. So whatever crisis they enter, it 272 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: might be threatening and it might be sort of all consuming, 273 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: but it's unlikely that it'll undo. 274 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: Boeing, and this speaks to this broader concern that I 275 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: think passengers all over the world have been having that 276 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: there have been more plane crashes recently. How is this 277 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: all contributing to the sense that air travel is getting 278 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: less safe? And is that feeling backed up in data 279 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: and reality. 280 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: Well, an absolute terms, air travel remains the safest mode 281 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: of transport. I mean people in the industry will tell 282 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 2: you it's probably less safe across the street or take 283 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: a bus than it is to border plane. Now, having 284 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: said that, if you look at an event like today, 285 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 2: obviously people start worrying and start wandering. It's a highly 286 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: regulated industry. Most of the aircraft out there are very 287 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 2: well maintained. There are fierce checks and balances. But at 288 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: the same time, we have had a string of accidents 289 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 2: since the beginning of last year. We've spoken about the 290 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: Boeing accident of that blowout, but there have been others. 291 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: The helicopter crash in Washington Decerse, the. 292 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: Helicopter crash in exactly that one, the mid air collision, 293 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: and there have been others. The South Korean crash at 294 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: the end of last year, there was a Delta plane 295 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: that skidded off the runway and landed on its roof. 296 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: Luckily no fatalities there, But all of that has sort 297 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: of added to a sense that this is an industry 298 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: coming out of an incredibly safe phase. So this is 299 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: an industry that needs to face a new reality, which 300 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: is yes, it's safe, but the public are having a 301 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: lot of questions about that. You know, is it still 302 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: safe to travel? Is not just a plane but also 303 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: the people on the ground that are guiding the aircraft. 304 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: Is that entire system that we've long taken for granted, 305 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: is that still sort of trustworthy? That's a question that 306 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: we are getting a lot more these days. 307 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: Benedicte. I want to end on the human toll of 308 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: this Air India crash that we're likely to see more 309 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: clearly in the coming hours and the coming days. What 310 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: kind of support have we seen today for the people 311 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: who are most affected here, who are the victims and 312 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: their families. 313 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 2: So we know that in Gatwick, for instance, which is 314 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: the app World in London, they've set up a helpline 315 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: and local support staff and obviously this is hugely tragic 316 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: for people who have lost their loved ones, and there's 317 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: very little fundamentally that you can do that. You know, 318 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: the best you can do is try and inform people 319 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: as much as you can. But this is a fast 320 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: moving and very chaotic situation. You have this wreckage in 321 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: the middle of a densely populated city, so this will 322 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 2: take time. But so far, what we've heard from the government, 323 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 2: from the companies, from the regulators, from local authorities, from 324 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: hospitals that everyone is rushing to this moment. I mean, 325 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 2: part of the reason why this industry remains so safe 326 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: is because conclusions are drawn from these accidents, as terrible 327 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 2: as they are. But you know, authorities, investigators look at 328 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: these accidents and they draw conclusions. They look at, Okay, 329 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: what can we learn from them, What can we do differently? 330 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: What kind of safety measures can we introduce that are 331 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: a direct line from this accident to future developments. And 332 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: that's why over time it's gotten much safer to travel byplane. Obviously, 333 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: that's no real consolation for the families of the victims 334 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 2: who are on this plane today. 335 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: Benedic, thank you so much for joining us and giving 336 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: us all that you know so far. 337 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. 338 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: Follow the latest developments in the story on Bloomberg dot com. 339 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 340 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access 341 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg 342 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode, 343 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever 344 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. 345 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow