1 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of the 2 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today, I'm joined by Alex Ailman. He's 3 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: the CEO and co founder of Lolly and Lotly is 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: a company that's really trying to push adoption, awareness and 5 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: adoption in the bitcoin cryptocurrency space, and so someone that 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: I'm really interested to talk to. So welcome Alex. Hey, 7 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Yeah great, Um, I know we 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: tried to line this up a couple of times. I'm 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: glad we finally did. Uh. Like I said, I've been 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: excited to talk to you. So for those that don't know, 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: why don't you tell us a little bit about who 12 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: you are, the products you worked in the past, how 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: you got here, and and what you're doing. Yeah. So, yeah, 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: my name is Alex um. I'm one of the co 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: founders of Lolly and also the CEO of Lolly and Uh. Yeah. 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: What we've created is a really simple way for people 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: to earn bitcoin when they shop online as they normally would. 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: So we have over nine hundred merchants on the platform. 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: People are these are These are companies that you shop 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: at every day. There's Walmart, there's price Line, Booking, dot Com, Safeway, grocery. 21 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: UM places that people where you can go get your essentials. 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: You get your groceries, you you take your travel, UM 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: buy your toilet paper, whatever you're looking for, and we 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: make it really easy for everybody to earn bitcoin when 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: you when you do it so right now, it's a Chrome, 26 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: Safari and Firefox extension and it's sort of like follows 27 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: you around and you go to different sites and it 28 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: pops up and it says, hey, do you want to 29 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: earn ten percent back in bitcoin? You can also go 30 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: to lolly dot com and see our nine hundred plus 31 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: merchants on the platform, and UM earn more bitcoin when 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: you do it. UM. So yeah, so we're we UM 33 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: started this company after the whole team and I we 34 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: built a previous company called Cosmic, and we sold into 35 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: very similar space, UH into into merchants, and we would 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: go to merchants and we would UM sell the solution 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: to them that let them sell their products anywhere. With 38 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: this mission of democratizing commerce. UM. We ended up learning 39 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: about bitcoin a couple of years into building the company 40 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: and found it just to be this like fascinating technology. UM. 41 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: The whole team was really drawn into this idea of 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: giving everyone in the world the ability to have the 43 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: same asset and be able to trade that asset and 44 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: send it anywhere in the world a cross border, thus 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: democratizing commerce native to a currency. So we all got 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: really excited about it. It never made sense for us 47 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: as like a payments mechanism with our last company. We 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: talked to merchants about it. They weren't really excited about 49 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 1: it because it didn't really solve their real problems at 50 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: that moment. So that's sort of where we started, like 51 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: grew in this in this idea of how do you 52 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: distribute bitcoin to more people. The next phase is, you know, 53 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: we end up getting acquired by a company called pop 54 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: Sugar to come into power one point two billion and 55 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: retail revenue. A year after that, after we grew quite 56 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: a bit post acquisition, a bigger company came along, Ebates, 57 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: which is largerest cash back company in the US. They 58 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: came along and bought us away from Pop Sugar in 59 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: a divestiture. So we were there for about a year, 60 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: got to learn the cashback model, and I was thinking 61 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: while I was there, like, you know, pitch this to them, 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: how incredible would it be to use the cash back 63 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: model as a distribution mechanism for bitcoin to teach people 64 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: about the bitcoin and spread it to more people. And 65 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: the central thesis of that is that most people are 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: not investors, and even more than that, most people are 67 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: not miners. So how are you going to get mass 68 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 1: bitcoin adoption without attracting a whole new wave of consumers. 69 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: So we said, let's take this consumer that shops online 70 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: that knows rewards, that once rewards, and let's share a 71 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: bitcoin with them and introduce them to bitcoin in this 72 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: new way. Um. And so yeah, we we launched about 73 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: eleven months ago and it's just been incredible. We're bringing 74 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: new people into bitcoin, we're bringing I think importantly women 75 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: into bitcoin. Um there's thirty of our users are female. 76 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: And and so just shows sort of like early signs 77 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: of increased adoption by new people that previously did not 78 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: have bitcoin where we're not um in the space. Yeah, 79 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: that's awesome. So I think everyone's aware of the system, 80 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: I suppose, right, So we're earning like cash or rewards back, 81 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: so whether that's airline miles or target reward points or whatever. 82 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: And then there's the cash back. Right, So now credit 83 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: cards companies probably started it, but you know, now they'll 84 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: give you cash back instead. But rather than in earning 85 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: a cash back or a rewards point, you're given bitcoin 86 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: exactly right. So we're taking something that people are already 87 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: familiar with. We're not having to convince them that rewards 88 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: are good, free things are good, um. But we're also 89 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: assigning value and having people pay attention to it, not 90 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: just around price and not just around investing, but around 91 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: passive earning. And when they can go see that their 92 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: points are deflating, um, you know, and and there's this 93 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: like um or they started inflating. There's this inflationary name 94 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: terature to two points, whereas bitcoin is like there's only 95 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: twenty one million of them. You're getting real bitcoin, and 96 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: that is going up in value because there's scarcity um 97 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: and because more people believe in bitcoin and they're learning 98 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: about the principles of bitcoin. Then like, so far, like 99 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: our users have seen bitcoin triple and and they haven't 100 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: seen the rewards triple, and they haven't seen their points triple. 101 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: They've seen their points stay the same or deflate um 102 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: in value. So I think it's really important. It's almost 103 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: like a forcing function of teaching somebody about the importance 104 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: of bitcoin indirectly, then they value it more and then 105 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: they become more invested in it, um, and they're choosing 106 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: us over cash back programs, which is a really great signal. Yeah, 107 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: something is uh, something definitely switches in your brain when 108 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: you start to realize how a deflationary currency works. And 109 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: so um, a lot of people do come for the 110 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: money aspect to make money, but then, like you said, 111 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: as you see it going up in value, you're like, Wow, 112 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: what the heck is this? I need to learn more 113 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: about it. And it's weird because it even change changes 114 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: the way that you want to spend money, the way 115 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: you look at spending money, Like I look at spending 116 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: dollars and I don't really think about it, but like, 117 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: oh no, I'll never spend my bitcoin. So um, that's interesting. Now. Um, 118 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: if I guess your primary market right now though it's 119 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: people that are already aware of bitcoin, is there like 120 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: an option where people maybe at first want to earn 121 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: cash back and then they have an option to choose bitcoin. 122 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: Are you only do bitcoin? We only do bitcoin. That's 123 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: our that's like what we're really focused. And there's plenty 124 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: of cash back companies out there, and I don't think 125 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: that there needs to be any more competition on that front. 126 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: You technically can, like you can exchange it for cash 127 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: like you can you you get Bitcoin is the default currency, 128 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: and I think that's really important for our brand to 129 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: be around bitcoin. UM. But you can get cash and 130 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: you can do whatever your bitcoin is your bitcoin like, 131 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: you can do it whatever you want with it UM 132 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: And so some you know, very few people have like 133 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,679 Speaker 1: cashed out when you know, when their bitcoin triple double whatever, 134 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: you know, whatever point that they got into UM. But 135 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: for the most part, people were turning people into holders, 136 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, hoddlers and and and that's been like our 137 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: bread and butter. And do you offer wallet or do 138 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: you transfer to the wallet of the address of their choosing. 139 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: So Lolly is effectively a wallet. It's a custodial wallet, 140 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: and most people are keeping it within the wallet. There's 141 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: certain like bitcoin maximalists that have earned you know, hundreds 142 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: of dollars in bitcoin and are you know, feel safer 143 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, holding their own keys and so you can 144 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: transfer it out and hold it your own It's really 145 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: up to you. UM. We it's sort of our mission 146 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: to teach people the importance of self sovereignty. And being 147 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: their own bank and owning their keys. But there's a 148 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: lot of people that want other people to manage that 149 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: for them. And so you know, we can't come from 150 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: a payment's background. We come from uh, you know, our 151 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: last company was pc I Level one compliant. We were uh, 152 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, we we had a extreme dedication you know, 153 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: partly because we had too in security, privacy and all 154 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: of that good stuff. So I think that a lot 155 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: of people you know, are trusting us with you know 156 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: that we're we're taking the same principles and protocols and 157 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: applying them to the bitcoin space that we did uh 158 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: in the payments world. Um, but you know, some people 159 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: don't you know, trust anybody, and they want their own bitcoin, 160 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: even with like fifteen dollars bitcoin. So it's really up 161 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: to the consumer. Their money should be you know, up 162 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: to them. And that's the whole thing that we have 163 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: to teach people, is like you should have control of 164 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: your money and be able to do it with what 165 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: you want, and you shouldn't um like if you you know, 166 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: give a bank cash, like it's debatable if that's really 167 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: your money. Um, the bank's doing all these things with it, 168 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: they're lending, So we like to think about like the 169 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: future banking system, giving these like attraction layers of earning 170 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: like lending, um cash back, these sort of things, and 171 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: giving it back to the consumer. Uh I think that, 172 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: like one of the most difficult things about bitcoin, which 173 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: you can probably relate to, is a lot of people 174 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: just don't understand what money is and they don't understand 175 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: how money works. Thus they're like, well, what what are 176 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: the issues? Like my cash works at my you know, 177 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: at my whole foods, like my credit card works, but 178 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: they don't understand the back in systems of like how 179 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: it all works and why and where it breaks down. 180 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: So bitcoin is like better money. It's more efficient. It's 181 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: like it functions without needing any any trust in any 182 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: centralized parties and no data breaches. It's just like this beautiful, 183 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: incredible piece of code that we all can use, um, 184 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, hypothetically for this like new money. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, 185 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. People have no idea how the financial 186 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: system works. And um, when I do a lot of uh, 187 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: I do a lot of digging through history to kind 188 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: of bring some of those lessons back. And it's interesting 189 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: because when you look back all the way to like 190 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: the founding of the United States. And you see some 191 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: of the quotes from Thomas Jefferson, but Benjamin Franklin, but 192 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: even Henry Ford in the early nineteen hundred said that, uh, 193 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, he said that if if the average, if 194 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: if the Americans understood how the financial system worked, there 195 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: would be a revolution overnight. And like this is like 196 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, and they got it back then. Um, 197 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: numerous quotes of you know, how much danger will be 198 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: in if the central banks take over and all these things. Um, 199 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: but now you know over you know, the last eighty years, 200 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: hundred years of education has been completely changed and now 201 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: nobody is aware of it. But hopefully that changes. I'm 202 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: curious because now you've built your you're a builder. You've 203 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,239 Speaker 1: built a couple of companies and and a couple of acquisitions. 204 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: So you've built it in like the payment space and 205 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: the like the reward space, cash back space, and now 206 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: bitcoin space. Um, how similar is it or how much 207 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: different is it building in the bitcoin crypto space versus 208 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: like a traditional like points back or cash back space. 209 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a great question. Um. I mean, building 210 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: a company is build a company and a second time. 211 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: It's just like it's so different like the second time around. UM, 212 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: and I love to like share my like musings with 213 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: they just building companies in general. UM, and so we're 214 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 1: like one thing a lot of people don't know is 215 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: like we're building with the same team as our last company. 216 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: So we we had an incredible team, we like everyone, 217 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: and we got the band back together to start this. 218 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: So having like the trust built into the this next company. 219 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: We you know, we we built some pretty incredible technology 220 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: with the last company. We love building together. We all 221 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: trust each other, we work early well together, and so 222 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: uh of us built our our last company together. UM. 223 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: And you know I've taken a lot of like learnings 224 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: from that. So our day to day is very similar 225 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: to building any company. UM. You know, you're hiring people, 226 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: you're you're you're doing that, everything very similar. The customers 227 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: are a little bit different. I don't think that a 228 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: lot of people, UM, because so our last company was 229 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: mainly like an enterprise company that was like our our 230 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: primary play. And building a consumer company, I think is 231 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: very different. And building a consumer company in the bitcoin 232 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: space is also very different. UM. I think that you 233 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: have to be very very transparent. You have to be 234 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: you have to tell people exactly what you're doing. You're 235 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: you have to have you know, we have open source 236 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: code and like we we we want people to um, 237 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, make sure keep us honest about like the 238 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: things that we're doing, the business practice that we're doing, 239 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: which be very transparent with our community. UM. That said, 240 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: we get, we get, and we have this extremely engaged community, 241 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: like if you follow us on Twitter, you know, like 242 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: like people who use Lolly are obsessed with it and 243 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: they love stacking stacks, they love earning bitcoin and and 244 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: so when you're building in this like transparent, like I 245 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: think people love the story when they love to feel 246 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: like they're building with us. And we because we build 247 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: so open and we like leverage our community to go 248 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: get new merchants, which increases the adoption of bitcoin. Like 249 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: every like we're all working together, like they're stacking stacks. 250 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: We're you know, we're getting new merchants. UM. We do 251 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: this game where we're like, oh, who do you want 252 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: to see next? And like people are like, oh, I 253 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: want safe Way, I want UM, I want like hotels 254 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: dot com, I want Booking dot Com. And then we 255 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: go show those two like Booking dot com and we 256 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: go get them on board because our community demanded it, 257 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: and they see this like this incredibly engaged community. So 258 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: building in the bitcoin space, I think it's like really 259 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: nice because with with with when we were at ebates, 260 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: one of the things we learned is like the coupon 261 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: clippers and sort of like this older generation that transitioned 262 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: into ebates and was obsessed with cash back is like 263 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: this rabid customer that like loves getting their cash back. 264 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: And I mean who doesn't love getting like things for 265 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: free and like getting cash and and so people who 266 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: are like getting SATs back and people who are getting 267 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: bitcoin back are like so excited to like get involved. 268 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: And every time we land a new merchant, it's like 269 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: one step you know forward for the bitcoin community. Because 270 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: we've been very transparent about our roadmap. It starts with 271 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: rewards and then over time as we as bitcoin transitions 272 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: from a store of value to a medium of exchange, 273 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: we're at that point of transition with that, like Vertex, 274 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: And that's what gets so excited when we go drive 275 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in sales for Walmart and I go 276 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: to them and say, hey, you guys are spending five 277 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: billion dollars in credit card fees. I don't even know 278 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: how much you're spending in chargebacks. Why don't you use 279 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: bit poin, Why don't you use some sort of digitally 280 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: native currency with immutability to solve your issue around UM fraud, 281 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: to solve your issue around like credit card fees. And 282 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: if we're at that point of purchase and we have 283 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: all these consumers that are like using wally as like 284 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: their preferred rewards wallet, that gets really exciting. To save 285 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: people even more money, to bring even more transparency to 286 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: eat commerce, to purchasing, to commerce in general. Like, that's 287 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: that's where it gets really exciting. So I personally like 288 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: love building in the bitcoin space. I think it's really exciting. 289 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: And I just don't think that there's like too many 290 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: markets that have a consumer that is so passionate about 291 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: the future and this like new world that we're all 292 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: creating together. Well, it's a it's a it's a it's 293 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: a good thing and a bad thing. I think the 294 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: reason why the people, the consumers are so passionate is 295 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: because we're in such an early stage, and so in 296 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: the early stage, the early adopters are like the true believers, 297 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: and so the true believers, early adopters are going to 298 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: be super passionate about it and are going to want 299 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: to share it, which is why it's amazing to work 300 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: with them. The con to that is that it's a 301 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: small segment of the population. Uh So, um, you know, 302 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: as that segment of the population grows, maybe some of 303 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: that enthusiasm enthusiasm died down a little bit. But that's 304 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: an interesting insight that you have and I can see that. 305 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: So people are used to getting rewards back. People like 306 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: getting cash back better, but we have cash everywhere. This 307 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: is this is bitcoin and so for the true believers, 308 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: they really want that. I guess, uh, you know, So 309 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: on the consumer side, I get that. I'm thinking more 310 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: about like the new maybe like regulatory side that you 311 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: have to deal with. So for example, you're a wallet provider, 312 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: so now you have like a bitcoin custody to deal with. 313 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: I would imagine that's more challenging than just sending points 314 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: back or cash back or is that not much different? Um? 315 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: I mean it is, But it's like, you know, we 316 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: work with some like you know, incredible third parties that 317 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: like like are you know, they have um, like the 318 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: regulatory licenses that we need, so we can off board 319 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the UM the that side of the 320 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: house to other parties that specialize in custodial solutions, and 321 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: we can really focus on the part of the business 322 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: that we are uniquely great at. And it's it's it's 323 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: just as uh it's I mean, it's hard to build anything, 324 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: but like I mean, building our last company was really 325 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: hard and has our last company had so many challenges 326 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: that we had to deal with that we don't have 327 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: to deal with this company. So there's like given, you know, 328 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: sort of a give and take in pros and cons 329 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: to building any business. And I think, you know, I mean, 330 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, including myself, are maybe 331 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: concerned or at least aware of of its seat. It 332 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: seems to be very difficult to do crypto based businesses, 333 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: bitcoin based businesses in the United States. UM. We saw 334 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: I think just this week even Goldman Zack's company Circle 335 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: announced they're moving most of Poloniacs offshore because they just 336 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: can't deal with US regulations. UM. So we see this 337 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: happening over and over and over UM US people being 338 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: blocked from participating in different UM different exchanges and things 339 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: like that as well. So I was just curious if 340 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: you experienced any roadblocks. But as far as you're concerned, 341 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: you're saying, it's kind of about the same for what 342 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: you're doing. Yeah, it's pretty much. Uh, it's a lot 343 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: of the same and there. I mean, like I guess 344 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: it's you know, you only know what you don't know. 345 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: And like when we started this business, there's so many 346 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: things that we learned and we had to learn and 347 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: we've gotten good at so and like also, you know, 348 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: we've been in the bitcoin space for five years, so 349 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: it's not like these are new things to us. We 350 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: we know the regulations, we know how to like we've 351 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: built in the space for a long time. Uh. And 352 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: I actually think that payments, the payments space, which is 353 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: what we're doing, previously had way more regulations and was 354 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: way more I mean, like our claim to fame in 355 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: the payments world, which you know doesn't get a lot 356 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: of uh press or credit or whatever, is Like we 357 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: survived the Target breach, um you know five six years ago. Uh, 358 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: Target had like the biggest breach of all time, and 359 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: we had just landed them, and we had to survive 360 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: all of these penetration tests as like this four person 361 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: company and and so that was like a really like 362 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: scared moment. But you you know, we've built an incredibly 363 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: secure platform. What does that mean? You had to survive 364 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: the penetration tests, so without disposing too much information from targets. 365 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: And basically like when Target got bridge, when anyone gets breached, 366 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: they have to go test all of their vendors to 367 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: make sure that everyone is compliant. And and then they 368 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: do advance like security screenings on all the different technologies 369 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: and like third parties come in UM to reevaluate which 370 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: which parties they can keep, which parties they have to 371 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: get rid of UM because they had revamped security to 372 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: never have a breach again into like you know, really 373 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: like lockdown, and as the smallest vendor by far that 374 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: they had, we were able to survive that breach. And 375 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: so we only did that because we built the best 376 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: technology and the most secure technology in the space. And 377 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: we did that from day one. And there's a lot 378 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: of things that I think my team like our principles 379 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: are around where we like, we will not compromise on privacy, 380 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 1: we will not compromise on security, and doesn't matter if 381 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: it takes longer to build and ship because of that 382 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: we just we're we're not willing to give that up. 383 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: So we took we took those principles with Cosmic. We 384 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: were rewarded with like by them. And I mean think 385 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: about like your incentives as a new startup, Like if 386 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: you get hacked, if you get breached like that, you 387 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: lose credibility, you lose trust, and so you're incentivized to 388 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: look out for those sort of things and into like 389 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: do what you do what you have to do to 390 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: like be the most secure company and to not get breached. 391 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: Let's not get hacked. It seems like most people really 392 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: today don't don't even really think about their privacy. I 393 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: think some of these hacks are starting to bring some 394 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 1: of that to the forefront. I think it's still a 395 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: long way off. Um, would you agree with that? Yeah? 396 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: I mean if I could like snap my fingers and 397 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: do just about anything, I I one of the one 398 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: of my first initiatives would be to like have everyone 399 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: understand why like the importance of privacy and the importance 400 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: of like their identity. Um. I think that credit card 401 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: companies and credit companies in general have there's been so 402 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: many breaches and people just don't understand, like all the 403 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: information that's out there, and it's really it's it's a 404 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: scary world to live in this dystopian world when all 405 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: your information is digitized and that information is is protected 406 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote protected by third party these like centralized institutions, 407 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: and there's no trust and like you if you're trusting 408 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: this like institution to like protect you, and there's no 409 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: sort of like um, like there's no way to protect yourself. 410 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: It's like a very scary world. So, uh, companies that 411 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: have done the best I think has been like Apple, 412 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: Like I trust Apple with my data because even when 413 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: they're subpoenaed by the you know, the Supreme Court, they 414 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: you know, their stance was like we don't even have 415 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: access to our own customers data like and and they 416 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: even if they wanted to, they couldn't like pull the data. Thus, 417 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: if they got hacked, you can't find data that doesn't 418 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: exist on it on an individual. Whereas other companies like 419 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: Facebook have made and Google have made businesses off of 420 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: controlling people's data. It's interesting to see how that will 421 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: evolve and how companies will like look over time, how 422 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: how much they're incentivized to protect data and then arguably 423 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: like not store certain data or tokenize certain data. Um, 424 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: because the biggest companies in the world are the biggest 425 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: honeypots in the world are data like companies that have 426 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: lots of data. Yeah, and I think I think the 427 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: bar has been raised. So I mean, if you're if 428 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: you're Google and you're tracking my Internet usage and what 429 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: I'm looking at online, I mean that's that's a lot 430 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: that Obviously what I'm looking at good, you know, incriminate 431 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: me or could tell a lot about me or whatever. 432 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: But when you're looking at what I'm spending my money on, 433 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: that's even deeper. That's like even a more uh kind 434 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: of a more invasion of privacy because now it's not 435 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: just what I'm thinking about, is what I'm actually doing 436 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: And so, um, the bar has been raised. And hope 437 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: that that brings awareness. But I think just the average 438 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: person wouldn't even think about, like what information is Lolly 439 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: keeping on me? Is all I keeping information on my purchases? 440 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: Like where where is that information going? What happens if 441 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: that gets out? How are you going to use that 442 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: against me? Etcetera. Yeah, So I think that's something that 443 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: we like hold like the utmost important, So we don't 444 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: know what you're buying. We don't want to know what 445 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: you're buying. We we just need to know the amount 446 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: you spend at each merchant and like, and that's how 447 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: we we fulfill like the bit point back. So we 448 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: we actually we take a stance and we want to 449 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: colle collect the least amount of information and we do 450 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: our own audits of like could we collect less information? 451 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: Could we like to fulfill the same purpose, which is 452 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: ultimately getting bitcoin back on your purchases. So, um, that's 453 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: the approach we take. I think it's we've been rewarded 454 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: for it so far. Um, I think that it's it's 455 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: scary too, Like I think users should always ask what's 456 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: being collected? How is it being uh, you know secured? 457 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: Are people selling data like we have? We have no 458 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: business and in selling data? We like, we are not 459 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: incentivized to sell data. We don't want to sell data. 460 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: We make money when you make purchases online and like 461 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: that's the way that we make money and that is 462 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: a great business. We it's a proven business model with ebates, Like, 463 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: we don't need to reinvent the wheel, aren't there? We 464 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: like we want to be a company that like makes 465 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: money when you earn bitcoin. That's it. And we don't 466 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: need a lot of data to to do that. We 467 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: just need people to use ally and shop online as 468 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: they normally would. What these like micro amounts that people 469 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: are getting back, um is their k y C requirements 470 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: on that No k y C on the onboarding it's 471 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: only a minimal k y C on the off ramp. Um. 472 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: And all we need is first name, last name, and 473 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: email email to do on the off ramp to to 474 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: transfer to US dollars or to transfer to your own 475 00:23:53,119 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: bitcoin address because the amounts are so low. Yeah, exactly. Okay, 476 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: So there's not like a big issue with like in 477 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: our business, people are buying the people are buying like 478 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: millions of dollars a bitcoin that they can potentially use 479 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: for like you know, let's just say in a worst 480 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: case scenario terrorism or or some sort of like black 481 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: market activity, like people have to go buy like they're 482 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: buying like toilet paper from Walmart or like flights and 483 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: for like hotels dot com, and they're getting good point back. 484 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: There's like not a lot of like fraud that you 485 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: can commit. There's not there's not a lot of incentives 486 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: for like paying a lot of money for something and 487 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 1: getting you know, let's just say like like our average 488 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: is like seven percent back, So the k y C 489 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: is actually extremely minimal, and we actually don't have to 490 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: do it on the on ramp because we're basically just 491 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: creating somebody a wallet and and then they can start earning. 492 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: So our our whole goal in building Lolly was to 493 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: create the easiest on ramp into bitcoin, and all you 494 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: need to do is like like sign up with your 495 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: email and you can start earning, like you just it's 496 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: it's like takes thirty seconds. Yeah. Yeah, so seven percent 497 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: is the average. That's a good that's a good number. 498 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah, and I 499 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: think our highest back right now is like so, but 500 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: you can learn a lot of what's the harmony the harmony. Yeah, 501 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: some of the digital products have like really high bitcoin back. Wow, 502 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: that's awesome. And then you can sort that and figure 503 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: out which ones get the highest percentage back and then 504 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: try to frequent those if that if that fits in 505 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: your buying schedule. M exactly. So, um, you talked about 506 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: finding merchants before you talked about how um, you know, 507 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: you look at the community, the community, you know, it's 508 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: really voting someone up or asking about them, and you 509 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: kind of go to them and use that. I'm curious, 510 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, when you're going to merchants or finding merchants, 511 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: how is that process work out? Like are you going 512 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: to these merchants and saying, hey, we're doing this thing 513 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: where we pay bitcoin back and they're like, what the 514 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: heck is that? Or is it like you just say 515 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: we're doing a rewards point and you don't really get 516 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: into the whole bitcoin thing. Yeah, that's a that's a 517 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: great question. I think it's changed over the since we 518 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: launched m A about a year and a half ago. 519 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: When I first started talking with merchants, uh, the conversation 520 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: was mainly about points. It was like, we're doing a 521 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: reward system. Doesn't like they don't really care what you're 522 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: giving them in points. It could be like you know, 523 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: magical Unicorn points or whatever, like they don't really there. 524 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: It's like there's so many point systems out there that 525 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: as long as you're like rewarding somebody in something with 526 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: something that someone wants, they don't really care. So we 527 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: took that approach because it was like if I were 528 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: to go convince all these people on bitcoin to start, 529 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: that's a really difficult sales process. UM. If I were 530 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: to convince people on rewards, it's just another rewards platform. 531 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: So we were able to get over five hundred merchants 532 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: on board. UM directly on board because we're like, look, 533 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 1: there's a big market with bitcoin, doesn't You don't need 534 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: to know what bitcoin is other than it is a 535 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: point system. And that's how we positioned it, were like, 536 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: bitcoin is just points that's c centralized. It's determined by 537 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: the world, but like like by buyers, by sellers, by 538 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: investors of what bitcoin is worth at any time, where 539 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: as points are determined by the institution that is giving 540 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: rewarding the points. And and so they that was like 541 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: a great way to get the first wave. The next 542 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: wave that that came, that's like the next four and 543 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: fifty that we've gotten over the last year that have 544 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: been sort of the slower movers UM. They came on 545 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: board because they saw that bitcoin was able as a 546 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: as a marketing tool, was able to attract so many 547 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: new users to their new shoppers to their their platforms. 548 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: So they saw the success with Walmart with overstock, with 549 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: price line, and that's how we got all this like 550 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: this new wave of of merchants that came on the platform, 551 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: and I think to this day we have more merchant 552 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: adoption than any other bitcoin company in the world because 553 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: we took a very different approach and we gave them 554 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: an incentive to work with a bitcoin company. And now 555 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: I've got like I mean, my friends at Walmart, my 556 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: friends at Sam's Club like there, they like love bitcoin 557 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: because they now have have had almost as forcing function 558 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: to learn about bitcoin because it makes sense for their business, 559 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: because we're driving sales with their business. Then they start 560 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: to ask the real questions, but good questions about what 561 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: is bitcoin? Why do people want it? It's generating real 562 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: sales for me and my business? Do we need to 563 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: think about more applications. That's when we played this like 564 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: long game wherein five years I come back to Walmart 565 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: and I say, hey, we've generated fifty million dollars in 566 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: sales for you all. What do you think about doing 567 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: pay with rally pay with bitcoin and have that that 568 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: go down the purchase funnel and give people the ability 569 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: to actually spend their bitcoin, use the Lightning network, reduce 570 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: reduced fees and reduced Walmarts um you know, credit card 571 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: fees and um the fees that you know for for chargebacks. 572 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: So then you're saying when you first started the first 573 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: five merchants, it was kind of like, hey, we're giving 574 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: magical Unico points. But now you're leading with bitcoin and 575 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: they're pretty receptive to that. So you've seen like maybe 576 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: you've seen a little shift. Yeah, we now we have 577 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: a real data around like around what um what drive 578 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: sales and why people are interested, and we have so 579 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: many users that have dropped Amazon and started shopping at 580 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: Walmart because they want bitcoined back. And then the wing 581 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: that like most merchants are have like great return policies, 582 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: they have great shifting policies, and like they don't need 583 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: overnight with everything. They would rather have bitcoin back and 584 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: wait an extra day or have bitcoin back and have 585 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: the same selection. And so they're like, how how can 586 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: I earn more bitcoin at every moment? And we're giving 587 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: them a way to earn more bitcoint in more places. 588 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: You're kind of burning the candle from both ends, so 589 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: to speak, because you you're pushing consumer adoption, but really 590 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: and maybe in the longer term gain you're also pushing 591 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: the merchant adoption, which as those two converge together. Now 592 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: we have mass adoption exactly. You need both in order 593 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: to have the macro effects of driving mass adoption. You 594 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: can't just have consumer adoption. You have to have merchant 595 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: adoption and consumer adoption at the same time. And so 596 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people thought that it would 597 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: come with payments because they're like, oh, will pay and 598 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: and bitcoin is a in a lot of cases, especially 599 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: with second layer solutions, a more efficient way to pay 600 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: um and and you know, reduces fraud all those things. 601 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people that built these 602 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: like early bitcoin payment companies, they thought about payments is 603 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: the wrong the wrong way. They thought they could just 604 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: come in and sell it like an enterprise tool. But 605 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: people don't want to spend a currency that's going up 606 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: in value, and you know, historically, how do you get 607 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: someone to pay with bitcoin and use it? For one? 608 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: It's got a stable out, So we're I think we're 609 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: far away from that. I think it's like, I mean, 610 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: you know, don't give financial advice, but I think we're 611 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: far away from like bitcoin stabling out. I think how 612 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: long you're gonna say, how long I think we're I 613 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: think we're like five years out from any sort of stabilization. 614 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, pretty long bitcoin UM. I think it's pretty incredible, 615 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: and I think like the world is just starting to 616 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: adopt it and and institutional investors are deploying massive amounts 617 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: of capital UM and and are going to deploy massive 618 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: amounts of capital. And it's a great uset that everybody 619 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: in the world can hypothetically own UM and then over 620 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: time it will become a better medium of exchange. The 621 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: more second layer tools that that come out and the 622 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: more um uh you know companies like Lolly that that 623 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: grow and continue to to build great businesses around the 624 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: bitcoin space. Yeah. So um, this was unplanned because we've 625 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: been trying to do this interview for weeks now, but 626 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: just yesterday I dropped a video on YouTube talking about 627 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: this exact topic and I said almost the exact same 628 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: things you did, which is like, uh, the the the 629 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: evolution of money and and really I believe we're still 630 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: in a in a in a collectible stage and was 631 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: being driven by speculation, and eventually we'll get to the 632 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: store of value stage. And once we go to the 633 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: store value stage, we'll see the volatility narrowed down and 634 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: then eventually we'll move to the medium of exchange and 635 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: then eventually unit of acout, etcetera. And I put about 636 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: the same timetable. I said, maybe in the next two 637 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: three years we see this more stable uh store value, 638 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: but the media of exchange could be seven eight years out, 639 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: is kind of is what I put. So I put that, 640 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: I guess because the kind of the kind of a 641 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: scene eyed eye on that. Yeah, And it's tough to predict. 642 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: Like we've never seen anything like bitcoin before. And it's 643 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: just like, I mean, I I won't pretend like I'm 644 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: not I'm not like, you know, I don't have a 645 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: finance background. I don't know, um, you know, I studied economics. 646 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: But we've never seen anything like bitcoin. So anyone who 647 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: like pretends to have like a definitive answer of it, 648 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: it's it's like it will stable out when when like 649 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: it stables out in the in the world, you're so like, 650 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: think about the amount of things that have to happen 651 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: in order for its stable out, Like governments are going 652 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: to adopt it as a reserve currency or reserves a 653 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: store of reserve. We know, I don't. I mean, maybe 654 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: some countries have done it in like small scale but 655 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: we have not even seen like institutions like start to 656 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: invest their money in the bitcoin in the masses, and 657 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: institutions are gonna come first, and then it's gonna be 658 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: countries and then the countries like whoever is the last 659 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: country is to like adopt it as partial reserve. It's 660 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: like that's where it gets more exciting if we like 661 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: look at really like a macroeconomic trend. The thing I 662 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: get really excited about is countries that are like, okay, 663 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: like I'm tired of using the US dollar as a 664 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: store of reserve, which is a lot of people realize that, 665 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: but like most countries reserved, it's not gold. They don't 666 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: have access to gold. They have access to US dollars, 667 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: and that's the most like liquid best store of value 668 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: is the U S dollars. Like we this, the biggest 669 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: stable coin in the world is the US dollar and 670 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: it's not backed by anything but the FED so and 671 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: like you know g d P so if if like 672 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: we have that is our is the world store of value. 673 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 1: If when countries start to get smart and they're like, 674 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: wait a second, I can't own gold because there's only 675 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: a limited quantity and all the countries have accounted for it, 676 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: but I can earn bitcoin or I can't own bitcoin. 677 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: And they start to say, I'm gonna take five percent 678 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: of my reserve and I'm gonna put in a bitcoin 679 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: and that's going to be a store of value for 680 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: me and my country. And then other countries start to 681 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: see other countries doing it and they're like, well, I 682 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: don't want to get you know, far behind, I need 683 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: to put it in. We haven't even hit that yet. 684 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: Like when that happens, like we like the bitcoin at 685 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: tank is gonna look really really fucking shape when to 686 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: put the money in, because I only people realize like 687 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: how much money is out there in these in these 688 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: like reserves. And you know the countries that wait, you 689 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: know like China, the US that are sort of they 690 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: have their own reserve, they have the most stable currency. 691 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: If they wait and they don't adopt it, and they 692 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: get left behind and they say, well, I'm only gonna 693 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: put one percent in, or I'm gonna put like point 694 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: point one percent in, They're gonna get left behind because 695 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: the whole world is gonna start to go to a 696 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: new reserve system, being bitcoin, and unless something comes along 697 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: that is a better Bitcoin, which I have not seen 698 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: yet like then, I I just I don't see bitcoin 699 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: getting replaced, um in that in that regard. So we're 700 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: in the early days and I want to align myself 701 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: with bitcoin, and I think we need to you know, 702 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: give our consumers bitcoin, and we need to teach them, 703 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: and we need you know, more people like you that 704 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: are like, you know, doing like really high quality like 705 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: teachings on money, educational services on money, and teaching people 706 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: the importance of bitcoin, the importance of products like Lolly 707 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: to educate people about how to earn bitcoin, how to 708 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: own bitcoin, and and why that's so important for the world. Yeah, 709 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: that's great. I love that that whole thing that you 710 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: just said there, and I agree with all of that. 711 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: I think, um, it's it's uh, it's kind of refreshing 712 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: to hear your perspective because as you said, right, you're 713 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: not really trying to push the payment narrative because it's 714 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: too early, it's too soon to push the human narrative. 715 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: And so really what you're doing with Lolly is really 716 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 1: pushing a store of value narrative and helping people earn um, 717 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: to save, not to spend um. So that's that's a 718 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: big piece and I appreciate that perspective. I think that's good, um, 719 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: because we're just not there and it's not it's not 720 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: the time to be spending your bitcoin, but it's definitely 721 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: the time to be stacking the stats, right, So that's 722 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: the game. Yeah, Yeah, that's the game. So yeah, I 723 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: like that. I like that whole the whole thing that 724 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: you said. I I was gonna talk more about the 725 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: payments at merchants, but I think I'm just gonna stop 726 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: there because it's such a great place to end it. 727 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think everyone just needs to be patient. Um, 728 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: we're seeing the biggest shift that the world has ever seen. 729 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: And it's not just like the information. We're talking about money, right, 730 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: the most important thing that we have. Um, And and 731 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: we have this game of musical chairs, this game theory, 732 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: as you say, UM, it is gonna be interesting. We 733 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: have seen I think I tweeted about Um. I think 734 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: it was Hungary did like a massive like confiscation of 735 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: bitcoin in some dark market and they have more bitcoin 736 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: reserves now than gold reserves. Interesting, and they didn't acquire it, 737 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: they seized it. But what's gonna happen with it? Is 738 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: is going to be the answer but it's just interesting 739 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: they have more bitcoin now than they have they have gold. 740 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 1: We did see last year the central banks UM acquired 741 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: more gold last year than any time in history since 742 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, which was the year that we got 743 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: off the gold standard, and they all started buying buying 744 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: it back that year. So we are seeing a massive 745 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: amount of gold being purchased and and I agree with you, 746 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: and it's just a matter of time. And still we 747 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: start to see the sovereigns start to stack it. But 748 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: it's time. It's patients and uh just curious. Uh, people 749 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: lose time perspective and so UM being a builder such 750 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: as yourself, UM, to build a company, I mean you're 751 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: looking at years right like you look at this long 752 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: term perspective, Like what's your perspective on building a company? Yeah, 753 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: I mean I think that I was very fortunate, I 754 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: think to have an incredible team that with my last 755 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: company and we UM we very much built with this 756 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: like twenty year time frame, and we got acquired early 757 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: and you know we have we it made sense to 758 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: get acquired with the last company very early. UM. Now 759 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: we have like lower time preference because we already have 760 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: an acquisition under our belt. We we have great investors 761 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: for this company, like we have like you know, people 762 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: don't like we don't have to sell, we have full 763 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: control of the company. We don't have to do anything 764 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: we don't want to do. And we're growing really fast. 765 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: And so I take just like a way longer term 766 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: approach or like I could see myself running this company 767 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: for the next fifty years, Like I don't see anything 768 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: changing um with how we're building this company, and I 769 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: like to think like that long term and because of 770 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: a lower time preference, it gives me the ability to 771 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: look at Bitcoin like in a different way. It gives 772 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: me the ability to look at Lolly in a different way. 773 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: UM Like I I ultimately I think we need to 774 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: be building like the visa on top of bitcoin rails 775 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 1: um Like that's the sort of scale that I think 776 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: we can look at, Like what is the international um visa? 777 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: Like what's the rewards network? How do you change each 778 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: money as a whole? And you take a lot of 779 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: like good things that the world has built previously and 780 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: you build them on top of bitcoin in a new way. 781 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: And like since the Internet, we have not seen something 782 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: as drastic on the technology front as Bitcoin, and so 783 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: we have a whole new rails to build on top 784 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: of that is this like trust less ecosystem that is 785 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: gonna just like shape this whole new wave of innovation. Uh. 786 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: And I just feel like so lucky to be able 787 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: to like be a very early company in that space. Um. 788 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: And we don't need to sell, like you know, it's 789 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: it's something like I think some companies, you know, you 790 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,959 Speaker 1: feel sort of like the forcing function of having to sell, 791 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: But like right now, um, you know, I I mean, 792 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: I just told you our road map for the next 793 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: ten years. Like we got a lot of work to do, 794 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: and it's like there's so much that can happen and 795 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: so many things that we can do right and wrong 796 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: along that path. But we have a very clear path. 797 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: I've been saying the same path for the last you know, 798 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 1: eleven months since we launched on Like you know, every 799 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: time I do a podcast, I'm like, I'm very it sparent, 800 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: like people know where we're going and like if you 801 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: want to try to compete with us, go right ahead. 802 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: But like we're I mean, I feel like we have 803 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 1: such a clear path, um, and we know the route 804 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: to go, and like, you know, maybe we'll be wrong, 805 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: but um, so far we've been right. Yeah. I love it. 806 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: I love it. Um. I just love to hear from 807 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: someone like yourself, a builder who's done it, and to 808 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: hear that time preference, you know. I, uh, my investments 809 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: take a long time. I build business take a long time. Um. 810 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of real estate developments. Of those 811 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 1: projects takes six eight years. Um. You know, warm Buffets 812 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: own Coca Cola since like the nineteen sixties, and uh 813 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: so you know, real investors, real builders have these long 814 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: time preferences. But I I see so many people getting 815 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: into bitcoin today that are just so impatient and if 816 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: it doesn't move up in six months or a year, 817 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere. Um And I so I just 818 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: always love to just like, hey, guys, like get some 819 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: perspective on this, like your alex is building over you know, 820 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: fifty year horizon, and so if we're gonna replace this 821 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: monetary system, I mean, it's to take time. But but 822 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: what a ride is going to be exactly And we've 823 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: we've had some really supportive investors that um. Like one 824 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: of the things that I always make sure is that 825 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: the investors are are our believers in bitcoin and that 826 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: they do believe in like the long term play. They're 827 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: not trying to just get rich quick and and have 828 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: like a quick return on capital UM Like a lot 829 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: of these investors like they want us to I p O. 830 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: They want us to like get to this like in 831 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: mark that we can UM Like they're not looking for 832 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: like a quick turnaround on this, and they understand like 833 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: the time preference around bitcoin. So we're very much aligned 834 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: with our investors. We have full control of the company 835 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: UM and we've been really I mean, it's just like 836 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: it's a great company. So it's also like a taking 837 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: approve in business model like Visa, like ebays, these cash 838 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 1: back models where we don't have to reinvent the wheel. 839 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: These models work, And like I think there's a lot 840 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: of companies that get into the bitcoin space and they 841 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: don't have a real business model, and then they have 842 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: to scramble because they're like, oh, we need to make 843 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,839 Speaker 1: money off fees. But what if you can't make money 844 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: off fees anymore, because we can use decentralized exchanges and 845 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: we can like you know, trade more easily with like 846 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: next to no fees. Um, how are these companies gonna 847 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: make money? Like we make money. Like we we have 848 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: these partnerships with the merchants. The merchants pay us, and 849 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: it just is like a very straightforward business model that 850 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: we can build on a long time frame because we're 851 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: making money. Yeah, I love it. All right, good, Well, 852 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: we're running out of time. I have some more questions, 853 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,919 Speaker 1: but we'll have to save him for another time because 854 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: I know we're kind of running a long and I 855 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: and I'll keep it short. But I appreciate you taking 856 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,439 Speaker 1: the time to speak to us, and I recommend everyone 857 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,240 Speaker 1: to check out Lolly and help push the cooin adoption