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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: And on that note, we turned to Christan Nunu, the

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Speaker 2: former Republican governor of New Hampshire, who was joining us

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Speaker 2: here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Governor,

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Speaker 2: welcome back. It's always great to have you. You, of course,

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Speaker 2: are familiar with both of these characters that we are

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Speaker 2: talking about here. Are you surprised that there has been

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Speaker 2: a falling out between these two or at the very

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Speaker 2: least surprised by the velocity of the break?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: I am, I actually am.

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Speaker 3: I've worked with both of them, and I thought cooler

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Speaker 3: heads would prevail over the bill. I think Elon probably

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Speaker 3: Elon has never been great with understanding the value of

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Speaker 3: messaging and the timing, and he probably went a bit

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Speaker 3: too far, not just support, not just saying hey, we

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Speaker 3: need to push back on the big beautiful bill. But

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Speaker 3: I think it was the you went to one Pennsylvania

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Speaker 3: without me comment that really probably come under Trump's skin

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Speaker 3: more than anything, and that escalated things. I do believe

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Speaker 3: though cooler heads will prevail, there'll be some reconciling, a

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Speaker 3: private conversation here, things will quiet down, They'll get beyond

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Speaker 3: the Bill. They still want the best for this country.

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Speaker 3: They have, you know, on a couple issues. They may

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Speaker 3: differ here and there, but you know, things that are inflamed.

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Speaker 3: I think the Democrats are excited there could be a

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Speaker 3: breakup of the two bros, so to say. But at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, I think there'll be some

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Speaker 3: cold war piece found.

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Speaker 4: Well, Governor, it's good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 4: We just heard from Elon Musk. He just posted while

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Speaker 4: you were talking on X very simply Bannon is a criminal. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: We'll going to get right to the point here. I

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Speaker 4: don't know if you've heard some of the remarks that

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Speaker 4: Steve Bannon has made about Elon Musk over the course

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Speaker 4: of this second term for Donald Trump. He weighed in

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Speaker 4: with Politico saying that he and Peter Navarro are recommending

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Speaker 4: executive orders to implement the Defense Production Act to seize

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Speaker 4: both SpaceX and Starlink take them under government control. While

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Speaker 4: Elon Musk is investigated for his immigration status, security clearing,

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Speaker 4: and drug use, what does Maga's hang up with Elon?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it's a Maga hang up or

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Speaker 3: even a Republican hang up. I think Bannon and a

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Speaker 3: few others have just never understood the relationship that the

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Speaker 3: President and Elon had. I think Bannon is again, he's

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Speaker 3: giddy because finally the guy he never really appreciated and

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Speaker 3: wanted in the White House in the first place is

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Speaker 3: kind of getting his come up ins, if you will,

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Speaker 3: with the president. So I think there's just a select

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Speaker 3: group of people that are just like, okay, you know,

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Speaker 3: there there was never they didn't have that relationship that

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Speaker 3: the President had. Remember, I mean, Trump and Elon would

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Speaker 3: talk every day, multiple times.

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Speaker 1: A day, every night.

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Speaker 3: They have a very long and firm relationship that is

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Speaker 3: obviously under some severe fire right now.

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Speaker 1: But it's not built on a house of cards.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it really is built on I think, a

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Speaker 3: vision that the two of them share. So ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't think it'll ever go back to the way

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Speaker 3: it was, Don't get me wrong, but I think cooler

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Speaker 3: heads will prevail on both sides, especially Elon, but on

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Speaker 3: both sides because you know, there's benefits to you that

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Speaker 3: each of them have to the other, not just commercial

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Speaker 3: and financial benefits, but political benefits and trying to get

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Speaker 3: the country back on track. So you know, I think

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Speaker 3: this will be an interesting chapter when someone writes the

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Speaker 3: book on it all.

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Speaker 1: To be sure, but I don't think.

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Speaker 3: It's going to define the presidency or crash the bill

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Speaker 3: or be It's more of a trivial thing at this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, forget the book of it. I'm waiting for the

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Speaker 2: docu series or whatever is going to show up on eve.

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Speaker 2: If there's going to be a reunion of some time host.

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Speaker 1: I'm watching them right for Bravo. I think we're waiting

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Speaker 1: fair enough.

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Speaker 2: We are living it certainly.

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Speaker 1: Governor.

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Speaker 2: We've spoken with you before on this program about how

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Speaker 2: you actually admired Elon Musk in the Department of Government

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Speaker 2: Efficiencies fundamental mission, which was to reduce the size of

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Speaker 2: the federal government get our fiscal house in order. So

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Speaker 2: in that vein, do you think Elon is fundamentally wrong

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Speaker 2: about his accusations around this bill being too big to

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Speaker 2: be beautiful, at having too much of an impact on

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Speaker 2: the debt and deficit of the United States.

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Speaker 1: He's right, Elon is right on this one.

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Speaker 3: There's no question about that that the federal government has

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Speaker 3: to start making tough decisions. And I'm not And we

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Speaker 3: can put it in the Elon context He was asked

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Speaker 3: to come in do things that no one else has

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Speaker 3: ever done in terms of exposing waste and fraud and

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Speaker 3: finding places to cut tens, if not hundreds of billions

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Speaker 3: of dollars. No one had done it, No one had

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Speaker 3: ever done it that fast and that strong. He did

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Speaker 3: it for the president. He sacrificed a lot for it.

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Speaker 3: And now he's like, wait, but I don't get anything

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Speaker 3: for this. I make all that sacrifice and you guys

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Speaker 3: aren't even gonna go.

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Speaker 1: Through with it.

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Speaker 3: Now there'll be some recision bills, but already we all

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Speaker 3: know those recision bills are are a very small piece

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Speaker 3: of the pie that the federal government really needs to

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Speaker 3: take on. So I completely get the frustration and the

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Speaker 3: disappointment that he has when it looks like that we're

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Speaker 3: going to the fiscal conservatives are adding to the debt, Like,

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Speaker 3: what are we doing here?

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Speaker 1: Right? This is crazy? So it's and it's not just him.

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Speaker 3: You see it from the more independent fiscal minds, whether

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Speaker 3: it's it's the JMI Diamond and.

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Speaker 1: The hedge fund.

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Speaker 3: Managers and these guys that really watch this economy deeply

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Speaker 3: saying yes, they are hedging themselves into other currencies right now.

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Speaker 1: Not because they don't believe in America.

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Speaker 3: But let's remember we don't no longer have a triple

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Speaker 3: bond rating, right It's just good practice right now from

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Speaker 3: a financial standpoint to look at other currencies. We're still

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Speaker 3: going to be the reserve currency in the short term,

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Speaker 3: but there are threats to that.

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Speaker 1: There's no question to.

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Speaker 3: That, and nobody wants to see it. But it's all

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Speaker 3: because of the debt and inability. I believe there's a

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Speaker 3: bit of a political revolution coming where all this money

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Speaker 3: that goes to candidates, it's going to start to go

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Speaker 3: back to the states and issues where there's opportunities.

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Speaker 1: I think we've talked about it on your show before.

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Speaker 1: I'm a believer. There's twenty seven states.

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Speaker 3: That have passed balanced budget amendment resolutions for the federal government.

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Speaker 1: You need five or six more.

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Speaker 3: That's it, and then the states impose a balanced budget

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Speaker 3: amendment on the federal government. That's how the founding fathers

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Speaker 3: designed it. And we're right at the finish line there.

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Speaker 3: That's a great opportunity for an Elon Musk to come

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Speaker 3: in right and say, look, I'm going to fund that.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to fund these conservative politicians anymore who

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Speaker 3: say one thing and don't do another. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: fund opportunities in the states to force the federal government.

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Speaker 1: To get their act together fiscally.

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Speaker 3: So there's just going to be a different mindset given

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Speaker 3: that this was the golden opportunity. This is where America said,

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Speaker 3: we know you have to make tough decisions. It might

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Speaker 3: be a bumpy road, We're ready for it. And then

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Speaker 3: they backed off. They all chickened out. Yet Josh Holly Center.

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Speaker 3: Holly's supposed to be a conservative, and he's telling people

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Speaker 3: we can't touch Medicaid because it would be a political

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Speaker 3: political suicide. We didn't elect you to go there and

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Speaker 3: make decisions based on politics. We elected you to go

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Speaker 3: there and make tough decisions because America has some really

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Speaker 3: tough financial times ahead of it and we're standing it.

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Speaker 1: And what a great opportunity.

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Speaker 3: For the first time in a long time, the public

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Speaker 3: is thinking about debt and deficit. They're willing to understand

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Speaker 3: that there could be some bumps in the or the

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Speaker 3: economy is strong.

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Speaker 1: What better time to do it With a strong economy.

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Speaker 3: And I know Trump wants the one percent cut right now,

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Speaker 3: I would I would tell the President don't waste it.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna need that in the fall.

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Speaker 3: By the way, right, you're gonna see the jobless number

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Speaker 3: really skyrocket this fall. That's when all these federal employees

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Speaker 3: are going to really come on the rolls. I'd love

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Speaker 3: to know what Anna thinks about the timing of all

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Speaker 3: that as well.

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Speaker 1: She's brilliant.

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Speaker 3: But these a lot of these these jobless claims out

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Speaker 3: of the federal government will really accelerate this fall, and

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Speaker 3: that's when you're gonna want the cut not to one percent,

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Speaker 3: but maybe a quarter a half percent.

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Speaker 1: And I think I think the Federal Reserve chair knows that.

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Speaker 3: So all these are big pieces of the puzzle, and

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Speaker 3: Republicans should be doing their job, and they're they're they're

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Speaker 3: kind of blowing it, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I get I get Elon's frustration here.

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Speaker 4: Well, boy, we're going to be playing back a bunch

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Speaker 4: of this tape in the fall. Governor will only have

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Speaker 4: a minute left.

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Speaker 1: You got me going.

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Speaker 4: It sounds to me, it sounds to me like you

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Speaker 4: see Elon Musk as somebody who came to Washington and

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Speaker 4: saw too much to take it seriously. And maybe the

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Speaker 4: same dialogue you had with yourself when you had a

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Speaker 4: chance to run for Senate and you said, no way.

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Speaker 4: If you were in the Senate, you'd vote no on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd vote no on this bill. Yeah I could.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get it.

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Speaker 3: Look, if you're not appreciating that, of all these smaller

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Speaker 3: issues we talk about, the debt and deficit are number

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Speaker 3: freaking one, and there's no two, three, and four behind that.

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Speaker 1: Because the car crash is coming.

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Speaker 3: It's not politics, it is math people, Right, Inflation is

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Speaker 3: going to skyrocket when we have to borrow, when Social.

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Speaker 1: Security goes bankrupt.

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Speaker 3: So look, everyone just needs to get their heads together,

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Speaker 3: make some tough decisions and put America's financial future first.

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Speaker 1: The world is counting on us to do the right thing.

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Speaker 4: Wow, thanks for not making us have to bleep you,

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Speaker 4: Chris Snunu, the former Republican governor of New Hampshire. Come

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Speaker 4: back and see us soon with Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe

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Speaker 4: Matthew dis Is Bloomberg