1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Bbcsdis before we begin, I just want a flag that 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: this episode includes some very strong language and references to 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: drug taking. 4 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: I was in the newsroom and I was about to 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: eat dinner, and I remember someone at our assignment desk. 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: They're the ones that hear this police scanner said Hey, 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: there's something going on in this quiet neighborhood on the 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: northwest side of town, and we need you to go 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: and check it out. We didn't know what it was, 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: but we knew someone was dead. 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: It's December twenty twelve and Tiffany Craig is halfway through 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: her shift at a local TV station in Houston. Her 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: dinner interrupted, she heads out to the scene of the crime. 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: So we got to the street. Nice neighborhood. Nice break 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: homes were just a couple of days before Christmas, and 16 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: there were lots of families in that neighborhood that had 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 2: their Christmas lights up. 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: Tiffany has reported live from countless crime scenes, but this 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: case was anything but typical. 20 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: There were lots of neighbors out, which doesn't happen all 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: that often. Whenever we go to crime scenes, a lot 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: of times people lock their doors and close up and 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: they want nothing to do. With what's going on out there, 24 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: But this neighborhood was different. This sort of thing didn't 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: happen in that neighborhood. 26 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: Tiffany joins the throng of journalists and neighbors craning their 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: necks to see what happened. 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: It was really busy, and there was lots of chatter, 29 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: and there was lots of people out there asking what 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: is going on. I remember hearing one of the reporters 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: tell an investigator that there was someone out there that 32 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 2: didn't belong out. 33 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: There, someone snooping around the crime scene. 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: They weren't a neighbor, they weren't really on the street 35 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: for any particular reason, but they were there that night 36 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: and then it's as if they just vanished. No one 37 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: ever heard about this person again. But they were on 38 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: the street, and it was suspect enough that somebody that 39 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: was with the group of reporters said something about it. 40 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: It's not unheard of for a killer to return to 41 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: the scene of the crime for some narcissistic kick. The 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: police ask around to narrow in on a suspect, a 43 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: local guy who'd just been released from prison with a 44 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: long history of stealing and pawning things. So detectives Carousel 45 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: and du say pay him a visit. One afternoon. They 46 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: knock on his door, but there's no answer. Try again 47 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: two hours later, same thing, and that's it. They don't 48 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: pursue this tip any further. I guess they didn't think 49 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: he was a viable suspect. He lived around the corner 50 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: from the Melgars and could have just been on his 51 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: way home. A well known ne'er dowell does not necessarily 52 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: mean well known murderer all the same, it's this kind 53 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: of behavior that would make anyone wary of the police investigation, 54 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: not even question this guy with a criminal record. I 55 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: can understand why Liz would maybe be cautious of trusting 56 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: the work the police are actually doing, but she has 57 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: no choice. She has to work with them, and that 58 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: starts with searching her old house for anything that could 59 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: be missing, anything that could be a possible clue. 60 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: And my parents the bed had been disassembled and moved 61 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: into the living room, even the carpet had been pulled 62 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: up and the floor had been painted over where obviously 63 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: there had been a lot of blood. 64 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: If you remember, the house had already been combed over 65 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: by the police and then scrubbed by the crime scene 66 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: cleaning company. It's impossible to know what might have been 67 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: seized as evidence and what might have been stolen. 68 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: And then I went into the garage because I knew 69 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: my dad had all those power tools and things were missing. 70 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: As well as finding her old backpack stuffed with the 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: family's Xbox and other valuables taken from the house, it 72 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: looks like some of her dad's tools are missing. 73 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 3: You could see that the toolboxes had all been rummaged through, 74 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: some of them are empty. 75 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: Liz checks to see if she can find any of 76 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: her dad's tools being sold online. 77 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 3: There's a Craigslist ad that had three of the tools 78 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: that were missing, all in one ad, exact same brand, 79 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: the exact like everything, and they were all being sold 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: for like two hundred dollars, which is just not yeah, 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: not the worth of I mean, maybe one of the tools, 82 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: but it was such a low price that it was 83 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: very suspicious. 84 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: She tells the police about the seller, wondering if this 85 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: new lead will be the key to finding her dad's murderer. 86 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 3: I had a list of suspects, which I did talk 87 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 3: to the police about. 88 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: Liz is investigating every possible avenue, looking at all the 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: possible suspects because in her mind, there's no way on 90 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: earth her mom killed her dad, and if she's going 91 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: to show the police she's right, she needs to find 92 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: out who did. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC 93 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: Studios and iHeart Podcasts. This is Hands Tied, Episode four, 94 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: Suspects and Suspicions. 95 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 3: I wasn't surprised at first that they were looking at her, 96 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 3: because why wouldn't you. That would be stupid not to. 97 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 3: I was being realistic about it. I thought, Okay, they're 98 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: gonna look into her because like ninety percent of the time, 99 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 3: it is the spouse. 100 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, if we've learned anything from True Crime 101 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: one oh one, the first person the police would suspect 102 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: would be Sandy Jim's wife. 103 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 3: And then I thought, Okay, they'll look into her, they'll 104 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 3: see that this nothing fits that, whatever evidence they have, 105 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: they'll look into it, and we'll. 106 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: Move on, move on and start to focus on finding 107 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 1: the real killer. Liz thinks. 108 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 3: And so I felt like I had to kind of 109 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 3: check their work or do their work for them. I 110 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 3: don't know. I just make sure that I had covered 111 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 3: everything and had recorded or photographed or somehow preserved everything 112 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 3: that I had found or I had done in order 113 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: for any of it to be taken seriously. 114 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: And despite all of Liz's effort, she feels like the 115 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: police are continually keeping her in the dark. She says 116 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: there's been no news on the backpack and Xbox she found, 117 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: and no news on the missing tools. But then Liz 118 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: has an aha moment. Her dad, Jim, owned a couple 119 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: of rental properties. Maybe the tenants will know something. 120 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: So I call this guy and say, you know, I'm 121 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: Jim Algar's daughter, and I just want to let you 122 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 3: know that this is what has happened. And I had 123 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 3: the most melodramatic reaction that I had been pacing back 124 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: and forth. It just made me stop dead in my tracks, 125 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: and I just thought, this man is like screaming and 126 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: shouting and acting like his own mother has died. It 127 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: just seemed very suspect to me. 128 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: And Liz discovers this guy's behind on rent. 129 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: I did find something my dad had printed out saying 130 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 3: that he was going to be evicted and less he 131 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: could come up with the missing rent within this amount 132 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 3: of time. And then once they left, we go into 133 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 3: the house and there are stab marks on several of 134 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: the wolves and what looks like blood on some of 135 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: the wolves, and it's just like the place has been trashed. 136 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: That's got me thinking, you know, alarm bell is going. 137 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 3: So we called the police and we did have them come. 138 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 4: Case number one two one seven six two six nine. 139 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: This is Sean Carriage. Here's Kenny Homicide sixty Henry thirty 140 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: nine sitting here with me. Sir, Can you state your 141 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 4: first and last name? 142 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: It's some ungodly hour in the morning when Detective Carousel 143 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: wakes Jim's ex tendant up for questioning. 144 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 4: And you used to run a home from him, Melgor Yes? 145 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 4: Or the address that location? 146 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 5: Hm? 147 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 6: I do? 148 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 4: It's I thought I did. I just woke up. It's 149 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 4: what it is, that dangn madress. 150 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: He tells the detectives. He moved out a month before 151 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: Jim or Hi May as he calls him, was murdered. 152 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 4: I remember between nine two thousand. 153 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 6: Okay, Uh, did you see him when you When was 154 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 6: the last time you saw Homie? 155 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: No? 156 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 6: I don't remember, but it was it had to be 157 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 6: at least a couple of months before that. 158 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 4: Okay. 159 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: The house was vandalized after he moved out. He says, Okay, do. 160 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 4: You know anybody that would try to hurt. 161 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 6: You? 162 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 4: Never say anything that I. 163 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 6: Can't to this day, I just can't believe it. I mean, 164 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 6: me and him talk when he came over. I mean 165 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 6: all I ever knew about him was he worked at 166 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 6: a school. He worked at a school, and anything. I 167 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 6: think he told me he had two in houses. 168 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I'm just trying to trying to get any 169 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 4: cato inside on what if anybody, everybody that knew him. 170 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 4: That's what I try to meet with you today. Anything 171 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 4: else you can think of. So he talked to him, I. 172 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 6: Don't know why anybody would hurt him. I mean, he 173 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 6: was just the most calmest person I've ever met. 174 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 4: He was relaxed. 175 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: Karazel asks a few more questions, but twenty minutes in 176 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: decides he's heard enough. 177 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 4: It's a seven three am. It's going to be the 178 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 4: end of the interview. 179 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: Another suspect struck off the list, back to the drawing board. 180 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: In January twenty thirteen, Liz and her mom decide to 181 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: sell the family home, the thought of living there too painful. 182 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: Sandy has only been back once since Jim's murder, but 183 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: felt terrified just being there, wanting to leave before it 184 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: got too dark, so they began looking for a new place. 185 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: In February, while Liz is packing up, she notices her 186 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: dad safe. She'd forgotten all about it, even though it 187 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: was right there in the closet next to his body 188 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: the night he was killed. She takes a closer look 189 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: and notices blood on the handle. 190 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 3: So I called detective Carousel, and I asked him about it, 191 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 3: and he says, oh, you can just clean it like 192 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 3: we processed it. It's fine, you can clean it off. 193 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 3: And so I asked my husband to please do it 194 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 3: because I just couldn't do it. 195 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: But it gets her thinking. 196 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 3: To me, it looked like someone had tried to go 197 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: into it because the keys that were normally in the 198 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 3: safe we're on the floor. 199 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: Around the same time Jim was killed, Houston was experiencing 200 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: an uptick in violent robberies where homeowners were tied up 201 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: and occasionally killed. 202 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: I honestly believe that the point of breaking into my 203 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: family's home was not to kill anyone. It was to 204 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: take money, and then things just went sideways. 205 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: Back when Sandy was being interviewed by the police, she 206 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: told the detectives that she couldn't remember much about the 207 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: night of Jim's murder. The time, she says she's spent 208 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: lying in the closet, tied up, waiting to be found. 209 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: It's all vague, impressionistic. She was falling in and out 210 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: of consciousness, hearing the dogs whining, realizing dimly she was 211 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: tied up, then blacking out again. But then she tells 212 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: Liz that a fragment of a memory has come back 213 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: to her. 214 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: She woke up for a split second and felt somebody 215 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 3: with their knee in her back, like pulling on her arms, 216 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 3: so she thinks that's the moment she was being tied up, 217 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 3: and that's when she saw someone looking at what the 218 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 3: person behind her was doing. 219 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: Sandy says that after blacking out, she came to momentarily 220 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: and saw a Hispanic woman in front of her looking 221 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: at the person who was tying her up. 222 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 3: And she said this woman looked angry, and then she 223 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: passed out again. 224 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: This doesn't seem like much to go on, but for Liz, 225 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: it's a game changer. Liz remembers what the house looked like. 226 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: There were clothes haphazardly tossed on the bed, dresser drawers 227 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: pulled open purses with their contents builled out. The house 228 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: looked like it had been ransacked searched. What did that 229 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: all kind of say to you? 230 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 3: I mean said that there was someone there who was 231 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 3: looking to take things for money. Even in my parents' room, 232 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 3: my mom was missing medications that people normally would abused, 233 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 3: so barbituates, the PhNO barbeitells she used to take for 234 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: her seizures. We didn't know if anything else was missing, 235 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: like cash, because my dad always had cash on hand, 236 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 3: but there was no cash found, so we don't know 237 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 3: whether he had spent it or whether it was taken. 238 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: Maybe this was a robbery gone wrong. 239 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: I can't give you any numbers on home invasions during 240 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: that year, but I can tell you that I covered multiple. 241 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: That's Tiffany Craig, the journalist we met earlier. 242 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: Could it be another home invasion? 243 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: This was a rampant problem in Houston back in twenty twelve, 244 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: so bad that several task forces involving agencies like the FBI, 245 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: Houston PD, and the ATF were formed to try and 246 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: stop them. 247 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: We have multiple cases where the people are tied up 248 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: and you have to wonder are they related? Somehow is 249 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 2: there something that could tie them together. 250 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: The similarities hadn't escaped Liz either. 251 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: I was also looking for similar crimes in the area 252 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 3: to see if anything could be tied together or if 253 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: it was the same people. So I did find a 254 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 3: few articles of similar home invasions, and that's. 255 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: When she stumbles across a report that seems kind of. 256 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: Familiar, where you know, they forced their way in when 257 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: the husband came home quite late at night. They asked 258 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: for safe they asked for money. They tied the family 259 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: up with items from the house, and then they used 260 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: like bags and baskets from the house to haul electronics away. 261 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: And that's basically how they got cause that they were 262 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: able to track one of the iPads that they stole 263 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 3: at that home invasion, and so I really started looking 264 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: into this gang. 265 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: One of the victims, a mother, describes the family's ordeal 266 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: on a neighborhood community website. She explains how she was 267 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: watching TV when four armed men and ski masks burst 268 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: into the house with her husband, who was coming in 269 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: from work. They'd been hiding in the bushes outside and 270 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: ambushed him. The family, including two boys fourteen and twelve, 271 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: were tied up in hell hossage for two hours, she writes, 272 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: while they tore up our house, threatening to hurt us 273 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: if we did not get them money, not knowing if 274 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: we were going to die. Tiffany remembers that case too. 275 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: I know about it because it was close to a 276 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: family member of mine, and I remember hearing about it 277 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: because it involved children, and I know that people were 278 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 2: tied up, and I know they were business owners. I 279 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: remember thinking, who did that? 280 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Who would do that? 281 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,239 Speaker 2: Who would do that to a family. 282 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: The police caught the getaway driver with the stolen property 283 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: in the car. A mugshot is circulated across the media. 284 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: It's a young Hispanic woman with dark hair. Liz reads 285 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: everything she can about the case. 286 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 3: And she was like, kind of the head of this 287 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 3: gang of people who were going all over Houston, targeting 288 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: immigrant families who were more likely to keep their money 289 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 3: at home, who had their own businesses. They hadn't killed anybody. 290 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 3: They had hurt people, but they hadn't killed anyone. 291 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: Liz shows Sandy the woman's mugshot. 292 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 3: Her photo was in the newspaper, and my mom said, 293 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: you know, she was like, I can't be one hundred 294 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 3: percent certain, but she does look a lot like the 295 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 3: person that I saw, and then I just kind of 296 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: went down that rabbit. 297 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: Hole, and so down the rabbit hole, Liz goes and 298 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: learns that this woman is from Columbia and has been 299 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: sent to prison for the robbery. A Mexican man is 300 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: also later for his involvement. Liz follows the lead and 301 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: tracks the man down. She starts writing to him in prison, 302 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: even goes as far as getting him on the phone, 303 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: where she records a conversation her relative acting as translator. 304 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 5: If I go, He tells Liz he wants to help her, 305 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 5: but denies being involved in both the gang and the 306 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 5: violent robberies, leaving Liz with yet another dead end, unable 307 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 5: to link the Colombian woman to her dad's death, but 308 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 5: Liz refuses to give up on that theory. 309 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: What is some of the evidence that this gang could 310 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: have been responsible for it? 311 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 3: So for me, it was, you know, my mom saying, 312 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 3: she does look similar to this person, but she couldn't 313 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 3: be one hundred percent sure because she was out of it. 314 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 3: She'd just been hail on the head, she was on 315 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 3: the ground. You know, it was like a split second. 316 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 3: And then I got in touch with the victims of 317 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: that crime and talking to them, you know, it just 318 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 3: sounded exactly the same. No forced entry, right, just pushing 319 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 3: your way in. My dad had gone to get the dogs, 320 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: he'd open the door. It would have been an easy 321 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: chance for someone to come in, and that would have 322 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 3: made sense as to why the dogs were barking, was 323 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 3: because someone was in the backyard. And then just everything else, 324 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: like asking for the safe. So there was a lot 325 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 3: that stood out to me. There's a lot of similarities. 326 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 3: But you know, of course I'm not the police. I 327 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 3: can't run tests, i can't ask questions. So that was 328 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: as far as I could get with it. 329 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: That the cops aren't convinced homeowners were threatened with guns 330 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: during home invasions, but they weren't stabbed to death. 331 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 3: The police said, you know, this seems more likely like 332 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: it was somebody. 333 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: Knew somebody who knew the family and deliberately targeted them. 334 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 3: And that did kind of ring true to me. They 335 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: knew the layout of the house, and they knew where 336 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 3: the house was located in the neighborhood, Like it's not 337 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 3: just on the corner on the first turn or as 338 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 3: soon as you get into the neighborhood. It's not like 339 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 3: in a very obvious place. It's in one of the 340 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 3: middle streets. It's not even on the corner the houses. 341 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 3: It's like in the middle of the street. You know. 342 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: It's just it just seemed to me that it was 343 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: somebody that we knew. 344 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: All of which gets list thinking about another potential suspect, 345 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: about someone from her past, a bleak period in her life. 346 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: She'd rather forget. 347 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: I don't ever want to do that again. 348 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: It was horrible. 349 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 3: It's something that I have zero interest in ever being 350 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 3: involved in again. So I met this guy when I 351 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 3: was a teenager. 352 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: It's the late nineties, the decade of boy bands, grunge 353 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: and light up sneakers. God, I really wanted those. 354 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 3: We were raised in the same religion, but we were 355 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: like there because our parents were there, and we didn't 356 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 3: really have any interest in being there, And so I 357 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: think that's why we became friends. 358 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: Sandy and Jim brought Liz up as a Jehovah's witness 359 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: having converted as adults. Most of their friends were Jehovah's witnesses, 360 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: and Jim was a respected elder in the community. And 361 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: what was your opinion of the church. 362 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 3: It wasn't for me, Like from a young age, I 363 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 3: always felt like this was not for me, This is 364 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 3: not my belief system. It just didn't fit, didn't feel right, 365 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 3: And you know, I was happy to humor my parents. 366 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 3: I had planned that, you know, when I turned eighteen, 367 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 3: I was gonna like slowly fade away and from the 368 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: church and like go off on my own. 369 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: By the time Liz is twenty, she's no longer a 370 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: part at the church, but still kept in touch with 371 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: the friends she's made there. 372 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 3: So me and the Sky we started hanging out, and 373 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: you know, we liked similar music and we had the 374 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 3: similar interests, so we'd hang out. There was a few 375 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 3: people there. 376 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: The departure from her religious upbringing, Liz started to rebel, 377 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: pushing away from her overprotective parents, partying instead of praying, 378 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: staying out late, and experimenting with drugs, smoking a bit 379 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: of weed and psychedelics. 380 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: And then one day one of his friends came over 381 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: and I was introduced to heroin and it was all 382 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 3: downhill from there. We ended up using for about a 383 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 3: year straight. It was awful. I said, I can't live 384 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: this way. I did things I'm not proud of, you know. 385 00:22:54,200 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 3: I stole from my parents, I you know, didn't and 386 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: did certain drugs from my mom. They were mine, but 387 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 3: she kept them because she knew I was involved in 388 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: these drugs. And I remember one time I was demanding 389 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: them of her and I was like, give me their mind, 390 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: you know, I want them, and it's just things that 391 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 3: I would not normally do. I don't recognize that person, and. 392 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: Neither did her parents, placing a lot of the blame 393 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: on Lissa's friend. He changed her, took away their daughter, 394 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: and put a strain on their marriage, causing endless arguments 395 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: on what to do with Liz, how to help her, 396 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: and how to get this guy out of her life. 397 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 3: They hated him, Yeah, my dad hated him, and he 398 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 3: made no secret of it. My mother, on the other hand, 399 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 3: was a bit smarter about it because she wanted to 400 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 3: make sure that we still came to her and that 401 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 3: she was in our lives, because she knew that if 402 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: she pushed back, then I would push back and I 403 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 3: might just leave or disappear. The last time I saw him, 404 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 3: my dad actually told him. He said, you're entitled, you're lazy, 405 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 3: you don't work, you think other people should pay your way. 406 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 3: You're a loser. Get out of my house. 407 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: That didn't go down so well. 408 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 3: He basically told my dad to go fuck himself, very 409 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 3: loudly on the front lawn, and then peeled out and left, 410 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 3: and I didn't see him again for a very long time. 411 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: Liz doesn't shy away from who she is or her 412 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: troubled past. She's honest that in her younger years she 413 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: was kind of an asshole. But once this guy leaves 414 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: her life, she's able to use this as an opportunity 415 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: to not only get clean, but stay clean, or build 416 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: her relationship with her dad, start a new life for herself, 417 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: meet her husband Anthony, moved to England, and try to 418 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: forget about her past. But now that she finds herself 419 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: back in Texas, the memories of this time keep flooding back, 420 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: and Liz starts to wonder if this person who caused 421 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: so much turmoil in her life could have been responsible. 422 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: Could he have killed her dad? Tried to rob the 423 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: house and things went wrong. 424 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 3: You know, he hated my dad. My dad was dead 425 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 3: and my mom was still alive. And then again, the 426 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 3: police had said that because of the layout of the 427 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 3: neighborhood and where the house was positioned, that it seemed 428 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 3: that it was somebody we knew and not just a 429 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: random hit, and she seemed very personal, like a angry 430 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 3: type of violent death. 431 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: According to Liz, she shared this info of the police 432 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: on the day they first interviewed her. She doesn't know 433 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: if they actually pursued this tip. The guy was never 434 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: interviewed by the police. 435 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 3: I was constantly calling asking for updates, but the. 436 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: Cops aren't returning her calls or replying to emails. It's 437 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: been months since she last heard from Detective Caaraseol. 438 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 3: I remember it was October and I asked the Lee 439 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 3: detective to get an update and he said, you know 440 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: this one more thing I'm waiting on. I'll call you 441 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: right back, and then I never heard from him again. 442 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: It's now July twenty fourteen, eighteen months after Jim's murder. 443 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: Liz and her mom are trying to rebuild their lives 444 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: without him, But as they moved through the normal rhythms 445 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: of day to day life, work, Errand's dinners together, Jim's 446 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: absence is acutely felt, especially as Liz welcomes her first 447 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: child into the world, a daughter who will never know 448 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: her grandfather Jim. Losing a parent is hard enough, but 449 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: this existential loss of warning, something that you never even 450 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: got to have, that can make anyone feel cheated, robbed, 451 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: And the lack of information from the police is hardly 452 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: made making things easier. But as time goes on, they 453 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: get used to it and just have to assume they 454 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: are busy investigating other leads, identifying other suspects. Until one 455 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: day when Liz is on her way home. 456 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 3: I had dropped my husband off at the airport for 457 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: a business trip, and I was going back to the 458 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 3: house and there was like one of those community mailboxes 459 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 3: at the front of the neighborhood. 460 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: Think of this kind of like the rows of mailboxes 461 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: in an apartment complex, with each house in the neighborhood 462 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: getting its own locked compartment. 463 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 3: So I went and I opened the mailbox and had 464 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 3: just been rampact full of like lawyers, flyers asking to 465 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 3: take on our case and to represent us in court? 466 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: What our case? What's going on? Represent us? Why is 467 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: their mailbox filled with letters from lawyers. As Liz sorts 468 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: through the piles of mail, it dawns on her none 469 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: of her detay active work finding possible other suspects mattered. 470 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 3: I don't even know why they wasted either of our 471 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 3: time because they did nothing with what I gave them. 472 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 3: They just ignored all of it because they'd already made 473 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: up their minds. 474 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: The one thing she feared most happens her mom, Sandy, 475 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: is charged with the murder of Jim Melgar. The life 476 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: Liz and Sandy were trying to rebuild after the loss 477 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: of Jim shattered. 478 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: I really started panicking when she got charged, when they 479 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 3: started ignoring all this other evidence just to make their 480 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: theory fit. 481 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Hands Tied, a new eight part 482 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: true crime series from BBC Studios and iHeart Podcasts. New 483 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: episodes will be released weekly, so subscribe, follow on the 484 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts so you 485 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: don't miss out. If you like the show, please help 486 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: us by spreading the word or giving us a five 487 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: star review. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and the producer is 488 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: Maggie Latham. Sound design and mix is by Tom Brignell. 489 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: Our script consultant is Emma Weatherall production support is from 490 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: Dan Martini, Elena Boutang and Mabel Finnegan Wright, and our 491 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: production executive is Laura Jordan Rawl. The series was developed 492 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: by Anya Saunders and Emma Shaw. At iHeart, the Managing 493 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: Executive Producer is Christina Everett, and for BBC Studios, the 494 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: Executive Producer is Joe Kent. James Cook is the Creative 495 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Director A Factual for BBC Studios Audio, and the Director 496 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: of Audio at BBC Studios is Richard Knight.