1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:03,079 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: And this is Sarah hart Hunger. 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 3: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 6 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 3: On the side, we are two working parents who love 7 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 8 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. 9 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 10 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 11 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: out long term career goals. We want you to get 12 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: the most out of life. 13 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. 14 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 4: This is Laura. 15 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 5: In this episode, which is airing in mid August of 16 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, we're going to be talking ergs. 17 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Now, some of you might be saying, what is an ERG? 18 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 5: Well, we are going to get to that with our experts, 19 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 5: Sarah Johaal and Laurie mahalick Levin, who has been on 20 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 5: the program before, talking about her company, Mindful Return. 21 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: But yes, an. 22 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 5: ERG employee resource group. Sarah, did you know what an 23 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 5: ERG was before? 24 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: For this episode? 25 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 3: I absolutely had never heard the acronym before. However, when 26 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 3: I read the context, I thought like, oh, maybe this 27 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 3: is kind of like we have like a physician well, 28 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: inness group and a physician parenting group at my institution, 29 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: So maybe theirs are like quasi ergs. 30 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: Quasi ergs, yeah, something like that. 31 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 5: Well, you know, they point out that they're sort of 32 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 5: an evolution like in some companies, it starts as just 33 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 5: like an affinity group, like all the people who are 34 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 5: this category what I've decided to start doing brown bag 35 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 5: lunches together for something. And then in other places it becomes, 36 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 5: especially as you get in sort of Fortune five hundred territory, 37 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 5: more formalize that these are employee research groups or employee 38 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 5: business resource groups or you know, different names that they 39 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 5: give to them. I had known about them mostly because 40 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 5: it's often the groups who are hiring me to come speak. 41 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 5: In many companies, I will be brought in by let's say, 42 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,919 Speaker 5: the women's employee resource group or whatever, which I'm willing 43 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 5: to speak to men as well. I'll put that out there, like, 44 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 5: you know, I don't have to only speak to women. 45 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 5: I'm happy to come and do productivity in general. But 46 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 5: I would say that that is often a group that 47 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 5: is at least co sponsoring my talk. These are just 48 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 5: extra support for employees who fall in various categories various 49 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 5: minority groups or LGBT or women or caregivers or whatever 50 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 5: else it happens to be. You know, people who are 51 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 5: working in a different country than they happen to be born, 52 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 5: and you know they're just You can think of all 53 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 5: sorts of different groups where people might want a little 54 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 5: bit of extra support or to find people who are 55 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 5: like them. Within a larger company, you know it can 56 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 5: be done, but poorly, it can be done well. As 57 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 5: of anything in a giant corporation, there's probably some where 58 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 5: it's just extra work for people and there's no reward 59 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 5: for it. There are some where it really like there's 60 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 5: a great business case for us because you've gone from 61 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 5: say x percent of your people who've gone on maternity 62 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 5: leave not coming back to a lower percent because they 63 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 5: feel that they're well supported. And of course that's a 64 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 5: much more something. It would make a lot more sense 65 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 5: for a business to then invest resources in when they 66 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 5: see a return like that or return on investment. People 67 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 5: hear the phrase ROI being used to this interview as well. 68 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 5: There's some corporate jargon that's return on investment ERG is 69 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 5: employee resource group. DEI is diversity, equity and inclusion. So 70 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 5: we'll put those all out there right at the beginning 71 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 5: in case everyone's like, wait, what is this. 72 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: I work for a small company where we don't do. 73 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: This, So I think this will be useful both for 74 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: those who work at institutions or big corporations that have 75 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: these groups in place and are totally familiar with them, 76 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: but also those who don't, because maybe some of the ideas, 77 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 3: even if not formal ergs, but some of the ideas 78 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: from this conversation can be applied in ways that would 79 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 3: be helpful for people or might inspire people to start 80 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: some groups of their own. 81 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, and both Laurie and Sarah have started these ergs 82 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 5: at place where they have worked, and they will talk 83 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 5: a little bit about in some cases it's been quite 84 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 5: a battle to start it, and then others they've been 85 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 5: compensated for their time. I mean, Laurie talks about at 86 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 5: a law firm getting a certain billable hour credit for 87 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 5: her work with this employee resource group, which of course 88 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 5: is a way to show that it is being honored 89 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 5: as work and it's not just like oh great, now 90 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 5: we had our high ranking women work extra without compensating 91 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 5: them for it. So yeah, there's ways that can be done. Badly, 92 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 5: ways it can be done well. Laurie and Sarah are 93 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 5: going to be talking about ways that ergs can be 94 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 5: done well, so let's go ahead and hear from them well. Sarah, 95 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 5: Hurt Hunger and I are delighted to welcome a different 96 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 5: Sarah and Laurie to the programs. So Laurie and then Sarah, 97 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 5: can you guys introduce yourselves? 98 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 6: Absolutely? Thanks so much for having us on, Laura. I'm 99 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 6: Laurie Mahulic Lovin. I live in Washington, DC with my 100 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 6: wonderful husband and two wonderful redheaded boys who are ages 101 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 6: ten and twelve. I run a program called Mindful Return 102 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 6: that helps new parents transition back to work after parental 103 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 6: leave and help employers retain their working parent talents. I 104 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 6: wrote a book called Back to Work After Baby. I 105 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 6: am a lawyer by training and practice, and I now 106 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 6: practice law as my side gig Laura. I'm also happy 107 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 6: to talk a little bit more during the podcast about 108 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 6: the work that I've done in the employee resource group 109 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 6: space around working parenthood, and. 110 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 7: Thank you, Laura. I'm Sarah Joe Hall, my pronouncer she her. 111 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 7: I am the co founder and executive director of Parents 112 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 7: and Tech Alliance. We are a national nonprofit that works 113 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 7: to create equitable workplaces in tech industry for all working families. 114 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 7: We've been around for six and a half years or 115 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 7: so and are one of the largest forces in our 116 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 7: industry of shaping change. 117 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 4: For working parents and caregivers. Great to be here with 118 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 4: you all. 119 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome. 120 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 5: Well, we wanted to have a little discussion about this 121 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 5: whole ERG thing which you first see it and I'm 122 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 5: like urging and that what you do with the rowan 123 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 5: and so it's obviously an acronym. So maybe for our 124 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 5: listeners who aren't in the corporate world necessarily can talk 125 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 5: a little bit about what ergs are and how they 126 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 5: came to be. 127 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 4: Laura, do you want to kick off? And I'll go after. 128 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 6: Absolutely sure, I'll start, and then you can fill in 129 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 6: with some specifics around history. So sometimes you'll hear the 130 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 6: word affinity group, or sometimes you'll hear ERG Employee resource group. 131 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 6: Sometimes you'll hear RG Business resource group. And these groups 132 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 6: started off by having groups of employees who all work 133 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 6: for the same employer and identified around a single identity 134 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 6: or issue, getting together to talk about things that they 135 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 6: were facing that were common to everyone in the group, 136 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 6: so it would be common to have like black lawyer 137 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 6: affinity group at a law firm, for example. Over the 138 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 6: past seven years, I've seen a huge increase the number 139 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 6: of parent and caregiver related groups, and there are some 140 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 6: important distinctions I think between the different types of groups. 141 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 6: If you talk about an affinity group, which is where 142 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 6: many groups often have gotten their start. Our friend Mary 143 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 6: Beth Frante likes to say that they were wine and 144 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 6: wine groups. Right, you drink wine and you wine about life. 145 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 6: They have progressed over the years into groups that are 146 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 6: there designed to support employee retention, to provide resources to them, 147 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 6: to give them an opportunity to collaborate with HR for example, 148 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 6: and have an avenue to express concerns. And then more 149 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 6: recently they've evolved into business resource groups where the goal 150 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 6: is to actually advance part of the mission of the 151 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 6: employer through the group itself. Sarah over to you to 152 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 6: fill in some details. 153 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 4: That's exactly it. 154 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 7: And I would even say we started seeing the trend, 155 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 7: particularly around parents and caregivers even a little earlier about 156 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 7: ten twelve years ago, when we started getting word through 157 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 7: the grapevine in our industry, particularly here in Silicon Valley 158 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 7: where big tech companies were starting to formalize parents groups, 159 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 7: other type of ERG groups as well that were beyond 160 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 7: that affinity stage that laur just described. And I have 161 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 7: a huge place in my heart for its history of 162 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 7: ergs because they started in our tech industry. They came 163 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 7: out of the civil rights movement in the late sixties 164 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 7: what was then the tech capital of the US, which 165 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 7: was Rochester, New York, and Xerox gets claim for creating 166 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 7: one of the first ergs for their black tech workers 167 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 7: who were trying to advance employment opportunities at that time. 168 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 7: So a very long timeline history, but I always loved 169 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 7: to give them credit because ergs were here first, not 170 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 7: a diversity department or diversity role, it was ergs themselves. 171 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 5: And how common are these now that I mean, would 172 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 5: most sort of big companies have a handful of ergs 173 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 5: or similar type groups. 174 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, I'd say all of the large organizations that 175 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 6: I'm aware of have at least some version of these, 176 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 6: and even more and more smaller organizations, even down to 177 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 6: say ifty or one hundred people are starting to have 178 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 6: some groups form depending on the interest level of the 179 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 6: people who are engaged. 180 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 5: Because what's the purpose of I mean, why does the 181 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 5: company want to have these or employees want to have 182 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 5: them too? 183 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 7: Absolutely, companies have absolutely seen the roi of having ergs. 184 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 7: They know today's job seekers are looking at their career sites, 185 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 7: for example, to see are they showing up in how 186 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 7: they're telling their story of who they are as a company, 187 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 7: how are they recruiting and attracting talent, and what are 188 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 7: they doing most importantly when they're through the doors through onboarding, 189 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 7: and are they creating that culture of. 190 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 4: Diversity, inclusion and equity. 191 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 7: And they're already seeing the benefits of having energies within 192 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 7: their organization. I see the increase in retention, They're seeing 193 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 7: the increase in wellness and belonging and having their talent 194 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 7: be a spokesperson for their company as a great place 195 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 7: to work within our organization. 196 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: Because what does like an ERG do? 197 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 6: Right? 198 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 5: So if I'm you know, I'm going to work nine o'clock, 199 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 5: I'm at my desk and my company happens to have 200 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 5: an ERG for let's say working parents, Like, what does 201 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 5: that change about my experience? 202 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 6: Right? So it depends on the organization, Laura, Right, So 203 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,239 Speaker 6: if I show up at a company where the affinity 204 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 6: group or ERG has a once a month brown bag 205 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 6: lunch for me to join. That's one thing, and that 206 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 6: might be sort of an entree into the world. But 207 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 6: then there are other groups that, for example, will convene people. 208 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 6: There are others who will bring it outside speakers and 209 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 6: facilitate things. There are other groups that will do data 210 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 6: collection on areas that intersects with their interests. There will 211 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 6: be groups that have advocacy plans with hr with the 212 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 6: outside world to advance whatever cause they are working on. 213 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 6: There has been I think an increase in cross collaboration 214 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 6: between and among ergs lately, so that they can pool 215 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 6: resources and connect on ideas that they share. For example, 216 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 6: in the post George Floyd area, you saw a lot 217 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 6: of collaboration between the black bipod ergs and the parent 218 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 6: ergs on how to educate our children to be anti racist, 219 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 6: for example. And so there are any number of ways 220 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 6: that an ERG can enter your life as an employee, 221 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 6: and I think it's really up to the ERG itself 222 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 6: to define the mission of the ERG and then to 223 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 6: work towards specific goals and to have leadership within the 224 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 6: group and to have a succession plan. And these are 225 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 6: all things that take time to build up, but ideally 226 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 6: you have a really concrete goal for the group. 227 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 5: Yeah, because I mean one thing, when I hear this, 228 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 5: I'm also like, well, I could see this going not. 229 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: So well in that it's work to run one of 230 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: these things. And you might have a. 231 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 5: Situation where people just get tapped to do the leadership 232 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 5: for one of these because they fit whatever identity group is. 233 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: But there's no real upside to it for you. 234 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 5: You know, it's just more work that you are than 235 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 5: needing to do because you are that identity. So how 236 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 5: do you kind of avoid that being the end result 237 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 5: of having one of these? 238 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 7: That's a great question and one that many ergies and 239 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 7: companies are really coming out of crossroads. 240 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 4: I feel at this point of time. 241 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 7: To that point, it's so important to outline the roles 242 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 7: and responsibilities in a super crystal way, and that is 243 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 7: self takes time as they're forging, potentially for the very 244 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 7: first time, bringing this specific community together. Internally, that effort 245 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 7: can look like how much time are they willing to 246 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 7: dedicate outside their day to day role to doing this 247 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 7: type of culture and community building, Particularly depending. 248 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 4: On the size of the organization. 249 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 7: It might be a global company, and that and of 250 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 7: itself is going to take some coordination to do that 251 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 7: mapping right. Who is going to be part of the 252 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 7: day to day orchestration of this ERG, What does our 253 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 7: structure look like, and can we look to other ergs 254 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 7: that might exist for inspiration and a blueprint so they 255 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 7: don't have to feel like they're starting from scratch necessarily, 256 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 7: but really having those guidelines of who does what, how 257 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 7: much time is involved. And we're seeing a trend too 258 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 7: of having two co leads potentially lead an ERG because 259 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 7: of that division of workload and often have a two 260 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 7: year term limit so they're not getting burnt out from 261 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 7: this work as well. 262 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'd love to shime in on that as well, Laura. 263 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 6: So I'm a serial founder of these groups. I started 264 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 6: one at the Association of American Medical Colleges when I 265 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 6: worked there, and then I started one at Denton's, the 266 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 6: law firm where I worked. And why did I do it? 267 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 6: I did it because I wanted to find my people 268 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 6: and because it meant a lot to me to be 269 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 6: able to connect with similarly situated folks to advocate for 270 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 6: things we needed. We helped to get the breastfeeding rooms 271 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 6: set up or the lactation suite set up in the 272 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 6: office correctly. Also, I found it personally helpful for business development. 273 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 6: I have a mentor who likes to say that the 274 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 6: playground is the new golf course, or is it the 275 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 6: golf course? You know, the playground is the new golf course, 276 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 6: and you know this isn't a playground, but it's a 277 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 6: place where parents were convening. And I actually got work 278 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 6: from other people. You know, there was a working dad 279 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 6: who like just had a baby, and we joined the 280 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 6: group when we started talking about our projects and cross 281 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 6: pollinated that. I did it because there were things in 282 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 6: the policies of the law firm that I was not 283 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 6: okay with and wanted to change. But I knew I 284 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 6: couldn't do that alone, and so I wanted to make 285 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 6: it better for the future of the company. I also 286 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 6: hear people say that some of the reasons that they 287 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 6: join is that these rgs often give people who are 288 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 6: not yet in a senior leadership position an opportunity to 289 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 6: develop some leadership skills. And a lot of ergs have 290 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 6: an executive sponsor or sponsors that allow the ERG members 291 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 6: access to someone who is much higher up in leadership, 292 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:27,479 Speaker 6: and so there is absolutely a need to be compensating 293 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 6: ERG leaders for the work that they're doing, and Sarah 294 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 6: can talk more about that. At the law firm, I 295 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 6: was given billable our credit for a certain number of 296 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 6: hours I think it was fifty a year or something 297 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 6: like that to take on the ERG responsibilities. So I 298 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 6: did it because I needed that community. 299 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we're going to talk more about you guys 300 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 5: these experience founding these in just a minute when we're 301 00:15:47,720 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 5: back after our break, So quick break here. Well, I 302 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 5: am back with Sarah Johal and Laurie Mahallick Levin talking 303 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 5: about employee resource groups and the function they can serve 304 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 5: at big companies in terms of helping people find their people, 305 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 5: maybe giving you access to some leaders who also have 306 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 5: that same identity or affinity. So both of you have 307 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 5: founded those, and Laurie, you were just talking a little 308 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 5: bit about founding them at the various organizations where you've worked. 309 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: Sarah, you also founded one, correct. 310 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 7: That's right, and like Glorie, a serial founder, a co 311 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 7: founder of them, I have started one at almost every 312 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 7: single tech startup in my fifteen plus career here in 313 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 7: Silicon Valley, primarily a women in business group or a 314 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 7: parenting caregiving group. 315 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 5: So why don't you tell me a little bit about 316 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 5: how some of those startup experiences have gone. 317 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 4: Absolutely the one. 318 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 7: That pops up in mind was at my time at 319 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 7: LYFT at their headquarters in San Francisco and had the 320 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 7: opportunity to found its Uplift Parents ERG, and that was 321 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 7: right around the time where the company's own diversity, equity 322 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 7: and inclusion policies were really starting to come into formation. 323 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 7: They hired a very specific role to oversee that strategy 324 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 7: and management internally, and I was a new employee. I 325 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 7: was only there for maybe about six months when I 326 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 7: as a new ish parent. I had a daughter that 327 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 7: was maybe around two and a half years old at 328 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 7: that time when I started and saw some real warning 329 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 7: signs culturally, policy management practices that was not okay for 330 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 7: working parents and caregivers, particularly in San Francisco. We are 331 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 7: one of the biggest cities with the least amount of 332 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 7: children in city footprint. That has an effect and impact 333 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 7: on business culture there where many employees were coming to 334 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 7: me saying, hey, how does it feel when our workers 335 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 7: can bring in their pets, but I bring in my 336 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 7: baby and I'm getting the side eye all day long, like, yeah, 337 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 7: that's an issue. So quickly created its ERG with the 338 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 7: support of its co founders, its HR leadership, and DEI leadership, 339 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 7: because they were going to be my partners to actually 340 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 7: implement and execute this fully across the company. Fast forward 341 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 7: a few months later, we had support a handful of 342 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 7: workers that wanted to help bring this mission to life, 343 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 7: and one of the first policies we focused on was 344 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 7: its paid family leaf and parental leave policy. At that time, 345 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 7: there was a lawsuit by JP Morgan who had a 346 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 7: father employee and saw in their policy language it was 347 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 7: written as primary caregiver versus secondary caregiver, and a lot 348 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 7: of that assumption means that that should go to the 349 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 7: woman partner involved, and the father at JP Morgan was 350 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 7: having issues taking his paternity leave time. That was a 351 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 7: real signal to our own legal team, an HR team 352 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 7: to say, hey, we should really revisit our own similar 353 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 7: language in our policy, make it gender neutral, to remove 354 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 7: those assumptions when it's involved, and hey, we can actually 355 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 7: do something even better. We were in a very competitive 356 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 7: market space for talent and retention against our competition at 357 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 7: that time and said, hey. 358 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 4: They're beating us. 359 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 7: In the time that we're giving benefits, and to the 360 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 7: support of our employees, can we expand that time just 361 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 7: so we can be a little bit more competitive, And 362 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 7: that's assuming what we were doing as a company. They 363 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 7: approved the plan, and we expanded it to eighteen weeks 364 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 7: fully paid parental leave, gender neutral leave, and that employees 365 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 7: could take advantage that at the very first day of employment. 366 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 7: Six months later that went into effect and all of 367 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 7: a sudden lift became one of the best places for 368 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 7: dads to work, a real, real magnet in attracting talent. 369 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 7: And then a couple weeks later, their main competition matched 370 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 7: the policy globally as well. To see that ripple set 371 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 7: change just from a few of us raising our hands 372 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 7: saying I think we can do better. 373 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, And Laurie, why don't you go a little bit 374 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 5: more into that getting the like you said, the pumping 375 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 5: rooms at your employer as a result of your working 376 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 5: parent network. 377 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: ERG. Sure. 378 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 6: So, the first employer where I helped launch a working 379 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 6: parent group was moving into a new building and they 380 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 6: knew that they needed to create some lactation space and 381 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 6: they wanted it to look right and to have the 382 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 6: proper amenities, and so the place that the HR Department 383 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 6: came when looking around to say who should we consult 384 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 6: was was the ERG, and so we were able to 385 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 6: review floor plans and space plans and help choose the 386 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 6: couch shows and things like that. I was just sitting 387 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 6: here smiling because when I got over to the law 388 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 6: firm where I kicked off an ERG, the very first 389 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 6: thing we tackled was getting rid of the secondary caregiver 390 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 6: distinction in the parental lead policy. So I think that 391 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 6: is a motivator for some of these groups to get started. 392 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 6: The other thing I'll say just that I don't want 393 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 6: to forget is one very important lesson I learned in 394 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 6: starting the first group and then starting the second. Was 395 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,239 Speaker 6: the first group I founded alone and only mom showed up. 396 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 6: The second group I intentionally founded with a new working 397 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 6: dad who was also a partner at the firm, and 398 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 6: working dads came to the conversations, And so I think 399 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 6: having both mom and dad leadership is so important with 400 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 6: these groups. 401 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, although then there are also women's affinity groups too 402 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 5: that would be absolutely yeah, a separate sort. 403 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: Of thing then as well. 404 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 5: So I wonder, you know, if we have some listeners 405 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 5: who are like well, I'm at a company and I 406 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 5: think we might be big enough to support some sort 407 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 5: of affinity group or something that maybe HR would want 408 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 5: to get involved in and support as an employee resource group. 409 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 5: How should they go about starting such a thing, like 410 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 5: what would be the best practices there? 411 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 6: Yeah, you want to kick it off there, and then 412 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 6: I'll jump in happy too. 413 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 7: I always recommend the first place to start is doing 414 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 7: an audit and a listening tour of what does that 415 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 7: space look like around diversity, equity and inclusion in your 416 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 7: own organization today? Are there other ergs that already exist 417 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 7: to see what's working what's not working with them? Or 418 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 7: if there are zero ergs yet and you truly are 419 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 7: starting from scratch, then start to look at how the 420 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 7: company has already positioned itself in the space, in the 421 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 7: language they're using on their website, even talking to folks 422 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 7: in the HR department about how do they look at 423 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 7: their vision and strategy and history of treating equity, inclusion diversity. 424 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 4: Topics within the company. 425 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 7: Because it's so important to really think about this is 426 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 7: not going to be a journey that you're doing in 427 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 7: a siloed space or practice. You're going to need those 428 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 7: stakeholders to make this a six sets, and so having 429 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 7: that input early on and really doing a listening tour 430 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 7: first is a great place to start mapping out how 431 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 7: you could approach this together. 432 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 6: Awesome, that's such great advice, Sarah. I have a couple 433 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 6: of things I would add. One is to have massive 434 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 6: amounts of patience and recognize that you probably need to 435 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 6: take some baby steps depending on the size and bureaucracy 436 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 6: of the organization. When I first attempted to start one 437 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 6: of these groups, I was told in no uncertain terms 438 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 6: that the organization had done quote unquote too much for 439 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 6: parents already and that they were going to have to 440 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 6: wait to launch the group. They said, come back in 441 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 6: about a year and maybe by then we'll be ready 442 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 6: to do something else for working parents. And so I 443 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 6: came back in a year and they said, okay, okay, 444 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 6: you can start it now. The other thing that I 445 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 6: created was something called the Working Parent Group Network, which 446 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 6: is a group of leaders of working parent groups. And 447 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 6: I started this because I was recreating the wheel all 448 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 6: the time with my own group, and I wanted to 449 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 6: connect with other people who are also running their parent 450 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 6: and caregiver groups. And so with this working Parent Group network. 451 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 6: We have our resource repository. I know Parents and Tech 452 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 6: Alliance also has a resource repository, and we have recordings 453 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 6: of all the different calls that we've done. One of 454 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 6: those recordings is how to start a group and get 455 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 6: some real advice from people who have gotten one off 456 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 6: the grounds. So I would just say that, you know, 457 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 6: I'd invite people to come and listen to those conversations. 458 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 6: I also have a blog post that I can send 459 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 6: to put with the post something about how to start 460 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 6: a gender neutral parent group at your organization that I 461 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 6: can share. 462 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting to think about what you were talking about. 463 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 5: That you needed a man to show up at the 464 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 5: beginning to be the sponsor, to show that it wasn't 465 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 5: just a women's group, right, that this was something that 466 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 5: was open to everyone. But part of being open to 467 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 5: the people who meet this definition. 468 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 7: Right. 469 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 5: You talk a little bit about this finding your people. 470 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 5: I mean, is that how it helps retention and things 471 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 5: like that, the the social aspect of it, And I 472 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 5: wonder if you could talk just a little bit more 473 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 5: about how that mechanism tends to work. 474 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 4: Yeah. 475 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 7: I can kick off by saying, many ergs are starting 476 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 7: in a place of psychological safety. 477 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: Right. 478 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 7: We hear that phrase often, and it's true. They're showing 479 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 7: up to work every day and likely not seeing folks 480 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 7: like themselves in positions of management or leadership or maybe 481 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 7: any and being often feeling like they are the other 482 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 7: on their team. And that really does come from a 483 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 7: grassroots place often with ergs, where they're forming them out 484 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 7: of Cammagreie. 485 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 6: Right. 486 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 7: They want that feeling of belonging and simply connecting with 487 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 7: what you and Laurie were saying is finding your people. 488 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 7: It really does tend to start there for sheer support 489 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 7: and representation as well. 490 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, and then as the groups evolve and become things 491 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 6: like business resource groups their brgs. I think that when 492 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 6: your identity can intersect with the business goals, then you're 493 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 6: having people who are feelings fulfilled because who they are 494 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 6: and the things that they're passionate about, even quote unquote 495 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 6: on the side, are aligning with their day job. I'm 496 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 6: thinking of I was a speaker on a day when 497 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 6: UNI leave are kicked off its working parent group and 498 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 6: Baby Dove was the sponsor of the event, and the 499 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 6: people who are in the working parent group who also 500 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 6: worked for Baby Dove were very aligned both in what 501 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 6: they wanted to create for their own families, but also 502 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 6: the product that they were working on. And so I 503 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 6: think you drive retention when you have that camaraderie and 504 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 6: when people can connect their own personal goals to the 505 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 6: goals of the employer that they're working for. 506 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 7: I think, just as a place of finding where, kind 507 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 7: of going back to the question where do I start 508 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 7: at a past company, we thought about storytelling. You know, 509 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 7: the moments that we were inspired maybe by our own parents' 510 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 7: careers growing up. Started with the memory of our parents 511 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 7: taking us to their workplace during the national Take our 512 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 7: Kids to Work Day and that was a catalyst for 513 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 7: us to say, hey, we've never celebrated that national holiday 514 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 7: at our company before. Many others in our space or 515 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 7: industry are participating, what could that look like? And when 516 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 7: we actually executed that for the first time at our headquarters, 517 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 7: we had the co founder come up to us and say, 518 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 7: I had no idea we had this many working parents 519 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 7: at our company, right, It's just for that transparency and 520 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 7: visibility of bringing us together in a real way. 521 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then if somebody's thinking about this, like you 522 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 5: know personally, what you might get out of it, aside 523 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 5: from finding your people or whatever. 524 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: Maybe you could talk a little bit, Laura. 525 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 5: You were saying that you did business development through it, 526 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 5: that there might be exposure to people who are executives, 527 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 5: or I mean, I wonder if you could talk a 528 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 5: little bit more about the opportunities that might make this 529 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 5: worthwhile for people. 530 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean I absolutely wrote a lot in every 531 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 6: review that I did at the law firm about my 532 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 6: work with the ERG, because there were sections of the 533 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 6: review that were designed around questions related to how you, 534 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 6: as a partner at this firm, support inclusion and belonging 535 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 6: and how do you help retain diverse communities, et cetera. 536 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 6: I mean, some of the people I am closest to 537 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 6: from that time at the firm are from that ERG. Absolutely, 538 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,959 Speaker 6: it wasn't just business development. I actually worked on client 539 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 6: matters across practice groups with people who I never even 540 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 6: would have met, let alone had practice groups from somebody 541 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 6: from the ERG. When COVID struck, she was in Canada 542 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 6: and she got her hands on all these N ninety 543 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 6: five masks and she sent them melt with the people 544 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 6: in the working Para group. I mean, it was even 545 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 6: like the silly practical stuff. We shared baby clothing across 546 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 6: the group, and I don't know, it was just sort 547 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 6: of woven into the fabric of my day, my life 548 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 6: and micro or. 549 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 7: Yeah, adding to Laurie's comments was making me think of 550 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 7: the effort we similarly did to really start tracking the 551 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 7: time that ERG leaders were spending at one of our 552 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 7: past orgs and kind of going back to that point, 553 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 7: this takes real time, blood, sweat, and tears to execute this, 554 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 7: and most of us are driven by the passion to 555 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 7: help expedite the change in equity that we want to see, 556 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 7: and doing that, we were able to negotiate adding ten 557 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 7: to fifteen percent of the time that we were spending 558 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 7: on ERG work, adding that to our own individual performance 559 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 7: reviews as well, so there was a new category of 560 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 7: time spent that was going back to the company's r 561 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 7: andy out of this. 562 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's something that you know, if it's extra, 563 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 5: it's going to be hard for people to get behind it. 564 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 5: If it's something that is then compensated, as Laurie was 565 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 5: talking about getting her fifty billable hours for her work 566 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 5: related to it, or however other companies that aren't buildable based. 567 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 5: But you know, whatever your internal tracking is of your 568 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 5: time that you get credit for firm service hours or whatever. 569 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 5: That that makes it a lot more appealing. And it's 570 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 5: also a way that a company could show that they 571 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,959 Speaker 5: actually support it. 572 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 6: And of course if they don't offer that, then it's 573 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 6: like there's the whole uphill battle of having that be 574 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 6: the first step of trying to get the organization to 575 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 6: compensate and provide and support and whatever, which is what 576 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 6: makes all of these things so challenging. 577 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, check a nag there, but something that other places 578 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: are doing. 579 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 5: So if people are listening to this and like, well, 580 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 5: I don't want to take on extra work, just know 581 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 5: that there are other places that you could get, say 582 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 5: twenty percent of your time to lead a company or 583 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 5: I mean to lead a big organization or something. 584 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: So you know worth considering. 585 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 5: Well, Laurie and Sarah, this has been fascinating. Maybe you 586 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 5: could just talk real quick about where people can find 587 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 5: your organizations if they'd like to learn more. 588 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 6: Sure, happy to kick off. You can find mindful return 589 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 6: at mindforeturn dot com. But you can specifically if you 590 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 6: are the leader of a working parent group or the 591 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 6: aspiring leader of someone who wants to create a Working 592 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 6: Parent Group. Go to mindforereturn dot com, forward slash WPGN 593 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 6: which stands for Working Parent Group Network to join the group, 594 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 6: and we have an email, userve and monthly calls that 595 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 6: you can join. Over to you, Sarah, Yes. 596 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 7: You can find Parents and Tech Alliance in a few 597 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 7: different places. Our website is Parents in Techalliance dot org. 598 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 7: You can also find us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter, 599 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 7: and our membership is free and open to everyone, regardless 600 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 7: if you are a caregiver or in the tech industry. Similarly, 601 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 7: we offer our members of monthly open distro List newsletter 602 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 7: to encourage networking with each other and live virtual meetups together. 603 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 7: And we also just released the very first open source 604 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 7: ERG compensation tracker and you can find that at bitley it, 605 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 7: dot l y, Forward, slash, e RG, fair Pay, and 606 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 7: we are tracking all of the companies that have publicly 607 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 7: stated that they are now compensating their ERG leadership excellent. 608 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 5: Well, as you guys know, we always end with a 609 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 5: love of the week to be something that you are enjoying. 610 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 5: And I have to say we're recording this in summer. 611 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 5: I'm really liking popsicles. This is a you know, it 612 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 5: just hits the spot some days, you know you want 613 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 5: something cold, you want something a little ferdy. This is 614 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 5: not ERG related at all, but popsicles are my love 615 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 5: of the week. 616 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: Laurie, how about you? 617 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 6: It's My love of the week is sleepaway summer campus. 618 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 6: The very it is the very first time my children 619 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 6: are gone for any extended period of time longer than 620 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 6: a day or two. And I'm one day five of it, 621 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 6: and I'm just really happy with the silence in my 622 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 6: house right now. 623 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: It is a great invention, invented exactly Sarah. 624 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 7: How about you, Oh, Laurie, We're almost there. Sunday start 625 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 7: sleep away camp for us as well. The countdown is on, 626 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 7: and Laura, similar to you. My vibe is ice cream 627 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 7: this summer. That is my happy place. Anytime we can 628 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 7: grab ice cream together as a family. 629 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: I think ice cream in the summer is good for you, 630 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: So you know. 631 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 6: Yes, it's. 632 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 5: All right. 633 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: Well, Lauria and Sarah, thanks so much for joining us, 634 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for having us, Thanks so much. 635 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 5: All right, Well, we were back. We all learned a 636 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 5: lot about erg's employee resource groups. So as we are 637 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 5: coming up on back to school season here, we're getting 638 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 5: our usual questions about it and one that we've been 639 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 5: hearing a lot is if you are, you know, packing 640 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 5: lunches for camp still or back to school coming up soon? 641 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: What are your favorite lunch supplies for kids? So, Sarah, 642 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: what are your favorites? 643 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 3: I just have to share that, Like it's you know, 644 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 3: there's certain questions I get asked a lot, and this 645 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 3: one comes up weirdly lot and a lot of people. 646 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: I must not have said it very clearly when we 647 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 3: had a prior episode. 648 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: That's what I think. 649 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: It's my fault because they're all like, what was that 650 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 3: lunch box you said? And I'm like, okay, I did, 651 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 3: so let me be like, what mysterious lunchbox? 652 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 7: There? 653 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: I say it clearly this time we'll spell it too, Okay. 654 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 3: So we have used these little metal containers called lunch bots, 655 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 3: like a robot, lunch bots, I mean ats. Maybe it 656 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 3: is hard to understand that because you're like box bot, 657 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 3: what okay, lunchbot? 658 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: Lunch bots? Ok. 659 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 3: Yes, And we have had some of these boxes probably 660 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 3: like a maybe not a decade, but like coming up 661 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 3: on a decade now, because like Annabelle uses them in 662 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 3: preschool and we put them in the dishwasher and they're 663 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 3: pristine like they're metal. They just come out the only 664 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: problem is that as my kids have grown, they need 665 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 3: more food. But it actually works out fine because I 666 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 3: put them in like neoprene bags that I just get 667 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 3: on Amazon that actually last pretty well as well and 668 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 3: go in the washing machine. Laura and I have different 669 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 3: feelings on this, but my kids are like, their lunch 670 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 3: just get to smell so bad if they can't go 671 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 3: on the washing machine, and so it's like a pet 672 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 3: peeve for me. I'm like, yep, can't buy it unless 673 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 3: it's machine watchable. So neoprene bag, lunch bots thing inside 674 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 3: ice packs, and then we can add additional snacks and 675 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 3: other food items because at this point, the little metal 676 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 3: boxes are enough to hold like most of a lunch, 677 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 3: but my bigger kids need some supplements. 678 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but you're going to be buying lunch too 679 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: this year. 680 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 6: Uh. 681 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 3: Comedy, so Adaba makes her own lunch and has suggested 682 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 3: that she does not wish to buy lunch next year, 683 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 3: and I'm like, that's fine as long as you're making it, 684 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 3: that works great. And then Cameron wants to kind of 685 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 3: like do half and half, and I think genevieve half 686 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 3: and half so I would be happy for them to 687 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 3: buy frequently, if not all the time, but that's not 688 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 3: what they necessarily want, so we're going to do a mix. 689 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, so my older three children by pretty much every day. 690 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: Which turns out not to be all that cheap we have. 691 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 5: There's obviously the reimburse lunch, which is a set price 692 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 5: in the school, but they have ola carte options as well, 693 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 5: and like in the high school, some of them are 694 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 5: actually like pretty cool ali cart options. So I know 695 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 5: that Jasper gets like a big fruit cup every day 696 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 5: and it's like one of those deli like strawberry packed 697 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 5: type things. But as you can imagine, that adds up. 698 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 5: But anyway, this is not a hill I'm going to 699 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 5: die on. I'm not putting the budget on the school lunch, 700 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 5: so that gets gets refilled a lot. But anyway, the 701 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 5: older three, by Alex, is charged with packing his own 702 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 5: lunch now that he has eight. The one thing I 703 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 5: would say with him is because he's a wee bit 704 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 5: of a selective eater, a lot of the stuff that 705 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 5: he does eat is more of the packaged variety of stuff. Anyway, 706 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 5: Like he'll have a package cheese stick and a package 707 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 5: of crackers and you know, a package of yogurt and 708 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 5: package of apple sauce. And so given that that what 709 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 5: it is, what it is, there's there's not a whole 710 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 5: lot of opportunity for anything to smell anyway. So we're 711 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 5: just using a regular insulated lunch box that you can 712 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 5: put a freezer thing in and that will keep the 713 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 5: yogurt and cheese cold until lunch. 714 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: So probably don't have it. 715 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 3: He's neater than my kids. My kids probably just spill 716 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 3: it all on line. 717 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 5: I be're happy for him to like eat a tuna 718 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 5: fish and mustard sandwich, but that's not really happening. So 719 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 5: as it is, the pretzels and cheese and you know, 720 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 5: apple sauce do not, in fact create a huge smelly mess. 721 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: So there you go. 722 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 5: One upside of that particular eating variety. 723 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: Your only real packing need then is a block bag. 724 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: So love it, love it all. 725 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 6: Right. 726 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 5: Well, we've been talking ergs with Laura and Sarah in 727 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 5: this episode. We will be back next week with more 728 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 5: on making work and life fit together. 729 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 730 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on 731 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 3: Instagram and You. 732 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 733 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. 734 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: Please join us next. 735 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: Time for more on making work and life work together 736 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 2: Out of