WEBVTT - Sports Betting with Darren Rovell 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:08.559 From the King of sports Books comes the Key Sports 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:28.479 podcast Unleashed, presented by MGM. Here's your host, Olivia Harlan Decker. Okay, everyone, 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.720 welcome back to Unleashed. You know I am celebrating. My 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.280 whole family celebrating. The whole state of Wisconsin is celebrating 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.400 because the Bucks when their first NBA title in fifty years. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.400 Oh my gosh, Jana Compo m v P. The year 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.360 old had fifty points at equals Bob Pettit's close out 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.240 game record, and most of that was in the second half. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.760 The second half was incredible halftime deficit. He also had 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.320 five blocks, fourteen boards. He was great from the line. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.200 He only missed two free throw was something that kind 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.119 of became a joke during the playoff run. He was incredible. 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.800 Let's not forget too. He hyper extended his knee exactly 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.120 three weeks ago. He was thought to be done for 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.800 the season. He was only out a week. He led 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.160 the Bucks, who were down two oh in the series. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.280 They win four straight. We've got to appreciate this story. 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.120 We've got to appreciate the good guys. He was drafted 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.399 by Milwaukee eight years ago. He barely spoke English. He 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.400 was sending all his money back to Greece to help 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.520 his family. They were struggling. He just wanted to provide 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.080 for them. There are so many stories, maybe even kind 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.720 of more locally known, of people kind strangers giving him 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.160 rides to practice because he had sent all his money 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.200 back home. He's just one of the good guys. He 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.200 wins m VP of the league twice. He could have left, 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.360 he could have joined a super team, but he wanted 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.760 to do it with this team, for this city. Could 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.200 you believe the shots of the Deer District last night, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.640 by the way they were like people or something like that. 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.520 That's more than the little town I live in. He 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.880 signed a five year extension the super Max before the season, 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.680 and he said, this is the hard way to do it, 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.960 This is the way he wanted to win. Also, total 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.919 class move. He invited Son's head coach Monty Williams in 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.560 the Bucks locker room afterwards. Monty, by the way, has 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.480 also been a star in this playoff run. It's been 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:16.840 so great to hear more of his story, watch him 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.960 coach his team, and the Sons will be back. And 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.240 you know, Hanna says that the Bucks will be back. 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.120 He says, this feeling is addictive. He wants to run 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.840 it back by the way. Today on bet MGM, you 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.919 can bet for that exact outcome the Bucks two championship 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.720 at plus eight hundred. There's some fun futures there if 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:36.480 you want to check them out on the bet MGM 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.880 app or at bet mgm dot com. Over to college sports, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.200 College football media days have commenced. It's always a fun 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.800 time a year. Alabama is the favorite to win the 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:50.760 national championship at plus two fifty despite only returning thirty 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.880 three of their offensive production. That's second fewest in FBS, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.720 so man, they just turn them out over there. This 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.680 will be an interesting season as it's the first season 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.839 where players can capitalize on their name, image, and likeness 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.760 that became official July one. For example, new Alabama quarterback 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.560 Bryce Young. Yeah, he's looking at seven figures off the field, 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.560 so definitely want to monitor that story. It's kind of 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.240 the wild wild West as everyone's trying to get ahold 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.680 of this. You know, Michigan is the first to do 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.919 it with jerseys. That one seems so obvious. The m Den, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.160 University of Michigan's official retailer, who's going to be the 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.440 first to sell jerseys with names on them also seems 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.520 so obvious, But players are signing deals individually. It's not 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:38.080 With the University Oklahoma quarterback Spencer Rattler. He's the first 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.160 big name to have public autograph signings. And I'm not 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.040 talking about a barbecue joint in Norman or anything like that. 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.120 This is at a convention in Chicago later this month. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:52.000 Names like Barry Sanders, Michael Irvin, em At Smith, Hulk Hogan. Yeah, 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.200 they'll also be in attendance. He's an early Heisman favorite. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.040 But this is the outlier. Most players are going to 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.680 be doing much smaller, low cool stuff. But you want 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.000 to keep an eye on the folks. We're going to 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.400 talk with Darren Vell about this later. He is the 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.440 sports business expert in this is big money sports business. 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.520 So Darren Revel is our guest this week. He's polarizing, 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.560 sometimes controversial, and guess what, he doesn't care as long 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.400 as you're talking about him, or better yet, following him. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.000 He's so accomplished in sports journalism, in business and life. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.680 He is currently the senior executive producer at the Action Network, 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.560 covering sports gambling as a whole. He has been at 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.839 ESPN twice hired right out of college. You know, we 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.680 actually discussed who was hired. They're younger. I always thought 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.440 I was ESPN's youngest on air higher at twenty two. Yeah, 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.680 that was wrong. You've seen him on ABC News, CNBC. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.160 He wrote two books by the time he was twenty 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.560 seven years old. He's anchored documentaries, led investigations, and he 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.520 earned an Emmy for his two thousand eight election coverage 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.960 for NBC Cash. He does it all. What I really 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.760 like about his story though. He went to Northwestern, which 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.359 has one of the best with some schools in the country, 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.480 but he majors in theater. He has a great voice. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.640 He wanted to be on Broadway. While he was at school, 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.919 he had a sports radio show where he kind of 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.120 found this niche of sports business. And he said, even 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.120 though I was a college student, I wanted to have 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.960 the best sports business coverage in the country. So when 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.719 ESPN comes to campus and Evanston looking for interns, he 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.920 pitched himself and basically created a job that was not there. Gosh, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.479 he really fascinates me because he's such a high performer. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.400 He operates with utmost efficiency. We'll talk about all that 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.800 with him so love him. Had Um, you probably follow him. 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:48.320 Let's bring in Darren Vel. Okay, Darren, before we get 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.440 into some sports betting and sports business items, I can't 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.279 wait to pick your brain on. I want to clear 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.520 something up because I was at ESPN for five years 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.159 as a sidebine reporter for college football and basketball, and 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.200 I was under the assumption that I was some prodigy. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.800 I was told I was ESPN's youngest on air higher 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.960 for a full season at twenty two years old. I 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.400 had just turned twenty two. But then I heard you 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.240 on a podcast say that you were the second youngest 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.479 on air Higher behind Max Kellerman. I'll tell you what. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.320 That totally burst my bubble. But what is the story there? 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.039 And can I still carefully craft the wording so I 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.719 can tell my kids that one day it was seven 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.120 days after my twenty second birthday. What do you got 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.680 that's pretty good? This was May and I turned twenty 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.080 in April. Okay, so I think I probably have you 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.039 by a slipper. Yeah, no, just I mean just a 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.200 whacko story of you know, me reading and I always 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.919 say young people don't get this, but me reading the 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.560 green pages of USA today as much as the red pages, 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.800 so the business section, the B section before the C 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.799 section sports and just falling in love with the idea 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.440 of being a business reporter who covers sports and not 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.440 believing that there really wasn't one at the national level. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.640 And just luckily, you know, ESPN came to Northwestern and 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.080 it wasn't an HR person. If it was, I would 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.520 not I might have made it to ESPN at some 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.960 point and I said, you guys are the worldwide leader 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.880 in sports, why don't you be the worldwide leader in 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.960 sports business? And it was a little bit foreign, but 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.480 I think they got the idea. And I was in 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:35.480 Bristol like three weeks later, Man, what's Max Kellerman story? Then? 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.920 Kellerman was on a local access TV station in New 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.760 York at eighteen, and he was so we kind of 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.680 have that kinship in common of like like being on 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:52.880 the national stage so young. You know, I set up 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.840 all these rules that I'm thankful for now for my career. 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.800 Like one of them was like I'm never dating anyone 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.400 from MSP and not going on a single date. Yeah, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.680 And as inconvenient as that was in Bristol, I mean 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.880 you were more on the road. If I would have 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.720 done that it just would have complicated so many things. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.880 And there's a lot of rules that I made, like 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.880 not drinking in public. Like again, because I had this job, 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.440 I couldn't believe I was there. It was my dream 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.240 and I was going to do nothing to destroy it. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.120 But that also has to do with considering yourself a brand, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.160 which you did before people even use that term, like 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:32.200 my brand, I'm branding myself. What's the secret, sauce to 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.120 branding yourself in any industry? That's a really good question. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.640 First of all, you need to be unique in a 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.320 way that people think about you. So one of the 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.120 things I did, and this was later on with Twitter, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.200 was I knew I couldn't get all the sports business, 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.120 but I knew that if I could be a conduit, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:55.360 a go between where you know what I do. And 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.280 you saw something that I would have done if I 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.040 would have seen it, and now I'm gonna give you 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.760 credit for seeing it, but it's gonna be on my 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.600 timeline and kind of doing it that way. And I 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.760 think like when people say, like this is what Darren 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.960 Ravel would have said, you know, it's just heavily defining 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:18.120 what you are and what you would say in certain situations, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.560 and it begins with pounding and pounding and pounding the 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.440 same thing. So you know that like Tiger Woods, after 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.520 it as a put, revel is going to give me 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.280 the you know what he made and what his career 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.319 money is. And I think just through repetition, that's really 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.760 how you build a brand and identity. I haven't heard 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.080 it described that way, but that makes so much sense too, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.320 because you've found such a niche and you did it 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.320 first with sports business, but you also do it in 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.120 you know, your theater background. You you wanted to make 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.360 a push up Broadway like you have this curiosity that 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.560 extends far beyond sports. That's why it's so important for 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.839 for I always think about for liberal arts education, for 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.640 being curious, just being curious. You know, I have a 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.880 brain that just works at a speed that is both 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.280 good and very bad. I have three kids. When I 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.800 have to slow down and just play hockey or just 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.920 play in the pool, that is the hardest that I 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.440 have to literally or on vacation, to not read a 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.520 book or look at a phone, to sit there, oh 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.520 my gosh, is torturous. But that's also made me what 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.479 why I'm good at what I do and I'm multitask 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.480 work for the Action Network. I am dealing with a 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.320 memorabilia collection that I'm building every day. I'm a partner 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.360 in a venture capital firm that invests in food and beverage. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.760 It's accepting that the good and the bad and learning 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.520 how to train it throughout life. But it doesn't help 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:50.920 when you're on Twitter the way I am for good 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.880 and bad. You know, to figure out how to disconnect. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.080 Do you have minions who help you with your social media? 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.319 I have fired every single tweet, all two hundred and 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.600 eighty thousand or something like that I have. I will 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.080 not let anyone touch it. I do have a guy 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.959 who we have a three way system. It is designed 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:16.880 so that I could relax for thirty seconds. He spends 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.160 time on Twitter all day and the only job is 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:25.240 to fire missives to me in three ways. If something 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.160 is interesting and not that important, but he wants me 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.760 to see it and it fits my brand and what 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.360 I would do, he emails it to me if it 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.440 is semi urgent, could possibly be something I need to 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.280 get on. That is a text, and then whenever I 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.320 see him call if no matter where I am, and 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.880 that's maybe one time a day I'm picking up that phone. 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.920 The thing is that I need to tell the betting 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.840 story or the business story to the original story, and 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.839 the faster I can get that original story the faster, 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.079 or I can then get out that secondary story right right. 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.120 It's twofold, and it used to be into you know, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.240 I started in two thousand. It used to be there 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.839 was a page called rich Johnson's Sports Pages. There was 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.240 all these links of every sports section and I wake 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.360 up at six am and read every damn sports section 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.080 and see, like, what is the story that is the 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.160 magic today? And so when people say like how I 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.400 think I was probably in between the first and tenth 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.240 journalist on Twitter, and people are like, how did you 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.240 recognize that that was the platform? And I was like 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.040 I didn't. I was swimming in a sea of trying 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.720 to figure out how to get things, you know, right, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.600 And I realized that if I followed the right people 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.840 on Twitter, I wouldn't have to do what I've done before. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.920 So it really it came to you. Yeah, it wasn't 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:54.120 about disseminating information. It was about absorbing the information. What's 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.760 your morning routeam, Like, how do you start off your day? 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.720 Because your quantity I feel like is out of this 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.959 world all times you were discussing, so like right now 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.480 I have about seven hundred tweets already to go for 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.079 the future. So like, I mean, I've morbidly thought about this. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.360 But if I were to die and my wife doesn't 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.839 have my pass code or anything like that, like you'd 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.760 be getting Darren Ravel tweets Like today, you know, you 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.280 said give your wife your password. She has my cell 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.240 phone password. It's so fine, Ums, got to get in. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.800 Nothing's locked. I don't I have one phone? Um I 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.720 have That surprises me that you have one phone? Sev 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.760 dred chargers I have. I do have one phone. Um, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:37.719 now I lost my train of thought. What were we 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.640 just talking about? Your morning? Your teine, my morning routine. 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.280 So my morning routine is actually my night routine. So 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.800 before I go to bed, I write on a piece 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.640 of lines paper, you know, I take a piece of 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.680 line paper and I write everything I need to do. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.200 And there are certain dates that I get ready for. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.679 So today July ist anniversary of the moon landing, and 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.840 I have some moon landing pieces I have. I just 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.200 in the Memorabilisi. It's fun for me too. But like 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.160 July twenty nights the fourth anniversary of the most famous 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.840 wedding ever, Charles and Diana, and I have a ticket 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.319 that got you into the church that though, so so 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.280 you know. I'm a big I'm a history buff, I'm 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:25.520 a theater buff. I'm a cinema music renaissance man. I 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.200 love all this, and I love the art of telling 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.480 the story for your memorabilia collection. I saw the other 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.120 day the shirt that Tom Hanks more in Forrest Gump 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.840 when he's running in that whole sequence, not not the 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.880 Smiley phase one. I probably couldn't afford that, just the Nike. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.240 Do you buy these for a personal collection? That is 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:49.440 ultimately an investment. Nothing that I buy is cheaper than 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.800 the day I buy it. I really believe that because 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.520 I'm going to tell the story of it. I'm going 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.600 to figure it out. I'm gonna get Tom Hanks to 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.640 sign it. I'm always trying to add value. And the 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.600 truth is, I enjoy my collections, but I don't enjoy 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.680 them enough not to sell them. So I try to 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.680 jump ahead on markets a one to three years in advance. 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.120 So I like to I mean, I'm just big on nostalgia. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.880 As an eighties kid, I think eighties it tugs the 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.680 heartstrings a little bit more for some reason. I don't know, 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.520 but I think I know nostalgia. So like when I 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.880 saw that graded video games were coming out and people 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.160 were taking sealed video games and grading them and that 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.360 they were gonna be worth thousands of dollars, I was 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.960 not the guy that said, oh, that's so stupid. I 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.760 was the guy said, oh my god, I get it. 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:44.440 It makes complete sense. So, you know, I see the 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.640 first generation iPhones are selling for ears, like, oh my gosh, 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.040 makes complete sense to me, you know. And it's also 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.400 funny because what were you gonna do, Like, as a 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.280 young kid, you weren't gonna hold onto the video game. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.680 You know, you rip you all ripped it open. I 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.560 love the idea of natural scarcity of things. Well, you've 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:07.040 been a pioneer in sports business reporting, then you transition 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.720 to news, You've covered politics, elections, You've won an Emmy. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.440 Now you're with Action Network on the gambling side, a 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:19.080 senior executive producer Why sports betting? So in two thousand eighteen, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.760 I was coming to the end of my second stint 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.960 at ESPN. I had seven months left on my contract. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.800 But here I was sitting in New Jersey. The Supreme 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.280 Court had just made their decision whereby states can now 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.080 decide whether they want to legalize gambling. And I'm in 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.480 New Jersey here and I'm seeing it at the ground floor. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.520 I happened to be in. Not many people say thank 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.680 god I live in New Jersey, but in this case 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:48.000 it definitely applied. Um. I was seeing the world of 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.840 what it would be at maturity in my state, and 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.880 I couldn't believe it. My friends who would talk about 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.360 sports and text about sports who were not betters, all 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.120 of a sudden, We're getting into the lines that spreads 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.120 everything going on. And I said, this is just going 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.960 to mirror across the country. If you were to see 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.359 the buses in New York City that went from New 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.399 York to New Jersey and back, like every bus was 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.679 at MGM, whatever it was. And I just said, you 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.080 know what I've I've gone from writing twenty to forty 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.400 to sixty gambling stories a year. Can I do it? 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.040 You know? Full time? Knowing that if there were big 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.760 sports business stories, especially now like name image and like 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.040 this and other things, obviously the Action Network is gonna 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.840 set me loose. But could I do it more, and 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.400 I love covering the big bets, and I love covering, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.639 you know, all the betting where the money is, where 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.639 people are voting with their wallet. You know, that's what 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.800 people whether it's a jersey list or whether it's it's gambling, 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.600 there's gonna be so much focused on it, and there's 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.840 a lot of I think I'm an adrenaline. I know 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.000 I'm in adrenaline. I'd say so. Plus the other thing was, 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.120 you know, this is no disrespect to anyone, but there 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:01.200 had not really been a big reporter into the into 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.000 the betting game. It was the right time because there 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.639 wasn't any like, oh, he's not a journalist anymore. And 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:07.879 I think a lot of that has to do with 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.879 the Action Network being like a real it's a real 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.920 media outlet. Yes, it helps betters get better, but like 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.400 it's not a tout service, so there's no reaction to that. 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.840 But you know, I felt like I could make betting 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.760 journalism better, and I feel like I have. I'd agree, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.720 it's good to have your name and your credibility as well. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.640 Come to the space because this is where the industry 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:31.960 is going. Obviously here we are talking about it. You 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:33.520 brought up n I L I want to pick your 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.520 brain on this a little bit. It is the I'm 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.840 gonna let you ask the question because you're the host, 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.600 but it's hard for you. Yes, I'm the host. I'm 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.719 I'm the captain. Now shut up there. Uh. In twenty years, 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.400 it's definitely one of it. It's probably the craziest thing 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:59.040 I've ever seen, the idea that and I wrote. I 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.720 probably wrote the very first stories on, you know when 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.960 at Syracuse when Carmelo told me, you know, my name 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:06.440 should be on the back of the jersey and I 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.360 should be getting a piece that's two thousand three, you know, like, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.040 and I've covered and I've asked every n C president about, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.080 you know, merchandizing and everything. The fact that on July one, 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.160 all of a sudden, the whole thing opened up, and 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.400 because of the n c A losing a Supreme Court 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.200 case like days before, told their appeal was shut down. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.359 There is no clearing house. No one says anything about 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.639 what a deal should be, how much that deal should 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.760 be worth fair market value, or could a booster just 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.360 offer Oh, boosters shouldn't d m the players July one, 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.760 boosters can d M the players give them your offer. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.159 Oh agents, agents can now represent players. It can't be 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.400 an inducement to represent them when they are a pro. 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.520 But I mean it is just in flood gates. Open 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.119 the flood gates. There should have been like on is 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.199 a transition period or or meetings. And I guess my 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.520 question to you then is, if you're an athletic director, 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.879 how do you stay on top of this. I've spoken 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.080 to athletic directors. The first time they see deals is 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.040 when it gets filed to the school. There's no conversation 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.280 with the school, there's no conversation with the coach, and 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:19.919 all of a sudden they're like, yeah, hey, we know 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.000 you need to file this deal. Here, this guy's getting 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.240 forty an autograph and this and that. By the way, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.959 once they file the deal on what you know, like 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.560 this guy's getting whatever per autograph that athlete is not 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.320 necessarily required to say as long as it's not during 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:38.439 practice time exactly when he's doing what we're right, So, like, 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:44.240 you definitely lose control. And I don't think I don't 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.760 think because it seems to be a free for all 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.760 that there won't be people who will lose eligible ability here. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.280 I mean it's not as free as it seems. Though, 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:58.240 Again I cannot believe, and I discussed this with Oliver Lack, 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:02.560 because I can't believe there's not a clearinghouse that says 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.480 this is what each endorsement should be worth for if 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.600 a quarterback in the SEC or if he signs this 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.159 deal and if it's above that, there's a holding period 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.280 or something like that. Now, it's gonna be harder to 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.479 cheat with the schools having the contracts, but you know 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.800 the big schools. Now here's the thing that I think 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.600 is interesting. What happens if you have a girl like 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:32.240 Olivia Done and she's at LSU Gymnastics and they have 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.359 a great program. But or let's say that the Cabinder 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.959 twins at Fresno State? Am I more likely to go 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.520 to Fresno State so that I could then appear in 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.400 their videos and get my value up? Right? Like? Think 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.560 about that, right? Like Olivia Donne has a million plus 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.359 Instagram followers, right right? And Olivia Donne has yeah, three 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:57.320 point seven three point nine million on TikTok. Why go there? 0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:59.480 Because I want to be around her and she's going 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.840 to increase my value. We've never had that before in 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.240 that sense. And then I'm glad that the atrocity of 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.480 South Carolina women's basketball and Clemson football of oh our 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.399 players voted that we didn't want to be on social media. 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.920 No they didn't, Okay, okay, don't don't give it that 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.480 ALA's ball and no. And I've always and I've gotten 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.280