1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

2
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always

3
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. That's the one and only

4
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,919
Speaker 1: super producer, Mr Max Williams. Give him, Give him some hands. Uh,

5
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,520
Speaker 1: they don't have to pet, but don't don't throw hands.

6
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,919
Speaker 1: Don't hands put them together for him, or put your

7
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,000
Speaker 1: hands up. If you're not reserve your fisticuffs. Keep your

8
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,800
Speaker 1: hands in your pockets if you're gonna be throwing those

9
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 1: things around. Yes, that is hand advice from your fellow

10
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, Ben Noel, You and I were both very

11
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:05,039
Speaker 1: taken by the whimsy of a quote that are old

12
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,160
Speaker 1: pal Gabe dug up for today's episodes. I say we

13
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 1: split it just because it's so much fun to read.

14
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: Is that cool with you? Totally? Okay? All right, Uh,

15
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:21,280
Speaker 1: here we go. Call us not weeds. We have flowers

16
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 1: of the sea for lovely and bright and gay, tinted,

17
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 1: all wet and quite independent of sunshine and showers. Oh,

18
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:44,680
Speaker 1: call us not weeds, oceans gay flowers. Now, Bass, I

19
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 1: knew you were going to do the weedy old man

20
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 1: voice on that, and then I knew you were going

21
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: to do. It demands it. It demands it really does.

22
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 1: And I love how we were leaning into the invisible

23
00:01:54,280 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: h is after those ws, not weeds. So so based

24
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: on that description, it may be a little bit tough

25
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 1: to guess what the subject of that rhyme is. However,

26
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: if you play it back, and if you listen to

27
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 1: it and treat it like you know, unpacking riddle, a

28
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,080
Speaker 1: lot of us would probably guessed correctly that is a

29
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:21,679
Speaker 1: little poem about seaweed. No, Max, you guys, you guys

30
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 1: are eating Japanese cuisine, right, You've had like seweed salad

31
00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 1: and so on. Yeah, I like seweeds salad. Uh. It's

32
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 1: one of those things that I discovered when I worked

33
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 1: at this restaurant back in Augustus also the place where

34
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: I learned to cook and really enjoy cooking. But it

35
00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 1: was the kind of thing I probably never would have

36
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 1: thought out of my own, but it was on the

37
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,919
Speaker 1: menu and I tried it, and I love it. I mean,

38
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 1: it's obviously love. It has to do with the sesame

39
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,720
Speaker 1: flavoring and the seasoning and all that. It is a

40
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,360
Speaker 1: little on the slimy side, but once you get past

41
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 1: the texture or maybe even lean into the texture. It

42
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,800
Speaker 1: is delicious, but then there's a crispy versions of it.

43
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: You can get little seaweeds snacks or the kind of

44
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 1: wraps that you use for hand rolls for example, or

45
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 1: even like you know, the kind of what do you

46
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 1: call the sushi that's with the rice and the and

47
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: the seaweed wrap. What was that called? That's wrap sor

48
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 1: that's nori. But there's a name for the kind that's rappling.

49
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 1: There's shemi is just the fish, and then there's nagiri

50
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 1: that's just on rice. And then there's another name for

51
00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 1: the one with the seaweed around it. That's like yelling

52
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,119
Speaker 1: at their phones. You the hand roll, I'm talking about

53
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,919
Speaker 1: the little sliced ones, you know, the little pieces rice

54
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 1: on the It's like the layer of seaweed, layer of rice,

55
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 1: and then the good stuff on me and saide. There's

56
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 1: another name for that, but we'll just leave that to

57
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: people to yell at their podcast apps. I know what

58
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: that one is. Yeah, I don't want to get to

59
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 1: Coughton the weeds, but I and the weeds. He's saying, Oh,

60
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: and the seaweeds there we are, yeah, but but we're

61
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 1: we're saying yeah, I'm gonna jump in. Uh is it

62
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 1: nori maki? Oh it's mocki Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly rolls

63
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 1: so good to um really makes me miss just being

64
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 1: able to stroll into a convenience store in Japan and

65
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: eat like a king so expensively. But well, there's always

66
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 1: grocery store sushi ben, there's always grocery store sushire is

67
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 1: there is um and we are lucky enough to have

68
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 1: some really good sushi spots here in Atlanta, but being

69
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: so far inland and not being in Japan, we do

70
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,240
Speaker 1: pay a premium for that, so really good sushi is

71
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,040
Speaker 1: kind of a special occasion thing for us here. But see,

72
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 1: weed go so far beyond sushi. We're just talking about

73
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 1: sushi because we like food, and that's uh, that's gonna

74
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 1: be the main touch point for us in the world

75
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 1: of seaweed. But seaweed has been around forever. Everybody knows

76
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,839
Speaker 1: what it is. You don't have to live by the

77
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 1: ocean to know about seaweed. And today's episode, which was

78
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,239
Speaker 1: arguably cursed for a while, is about a very weird

79
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 1: Victorian hobby. People started getting into really into seaweed, like

80
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:58,040
Speaker 1: treating it as though it were almost like Pokemon today,

81
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 1: as though it were as a a torso chest. Just

82
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 1: so I love it. We teased it a little bit

83
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 1: in the episode that we did with the Ridiculous Romance

84
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 1: Crew that we had an episode coming up that involves

85
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,440
Speaker 1: scrap booking to some degree, because uh, we were talking

86
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: about Valentine's and like, you know, making lace kind of

87
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, little ephemera, and today really does kind of

88
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: discuss the the art of scrap booking, specifically seaweed scrap

89
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 1: booking as kind of a weird form of women's empowerment

90
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 1: in the Victorian Age, because as as many folks know,

91
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, um was not the most liberating of

92
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,279
Speaker 1: times for women, especially in Victorian England, where they were

93
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 1: you know, kept in many respects. In most respects, in fact,

94
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,760
Speaker 1: outside of the ones that we're going to talk about today,

95
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,599
Speaker 1: they were required chaperone's in order to venture outside of

96
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,360
Speaker 1: the home. They were you know, largely almost exclusively treated

97
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: as kind of domestic uh servants, essentially in service to

98
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,360
Speaker 1: to their their their male counterparts, um. But it wasn't

99
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,719
Speaker 1: really counterpart because there was no equality there whatsoever, more

100
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 1: like their male masters. Honestly, that's kind of how it

101
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,479
Speaker 1: was three of those sort of the attitude of the time.

102
00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,600
Speaker 1: But there was a new thing happening, a very widespread

103
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,800
Speaker 1: interest in the natural sciences. Uh, and that was because

104
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 1: of discoveries from people like Darwin. Who else Ben was

105
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 1: contributing to this um interest and nature Oh so much.

106
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: There's so much stuff here. We're talking about a time

107
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,880
Speaker 1: of great scientific discovery and breakthroughs, and we're talking about

108
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:48,040
Speaker 1: some deep and profound paradigm shifts in society at this time.

109
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,640
Speaker 1: Because you you pointed out the dichotomy in which this

110
00:06:51,720 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 1: story takes place. Everybody is fascinated by scientific investigation, right,

111
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,080
Speaker 1: People want to as hobbies learn more about the natural world.

112
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 1: But at the same time, society only wants certain members

113
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 1: of the population to learn. Like if you're if you're

114
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,360
Speaker 1: a little dude, then go get your chemistry set. But

115
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: if you're a woman, whether child or adult, then civilization

116
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 1: is telling you, whoa, that's that's men's stuff. Stay home

117
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 1: and you can like music and you can like to

118
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,559
Speaker 1: decorate things, but that's that's where we draw the line.

119
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 1: And don't talk to me about voting. That's what society

120
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 1: was saying. If you're a dude, go watch that bird. Hell,

121
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 1: kill that bird. Stuff that bird, mount that bird, you know,

122
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 1: like mount like taxidermy, you know, because at the again,

123
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: another big figure at this time was John James Autobon,

124
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, who established the Audubon Society. You mentioned the

125
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: idea of membership. Um. The things like the Audubon Society

126
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 1: inspired countless smaller kind of offshoots and and clubs, organizations

127
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,800
Speaker 1: where members would participate in in different outdoorsy type activities,

128
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: whether it be bird watching or rock collecting or you know,

129
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:18,560
Speaker 1: mineral hunting or whatever. But women were almost exclusively not

130
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 1: permitted to join these clubs, except when it came to

131
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: the idea of taking in the country air, you know,

132
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 1: going for a dip in the ocean, you know, but

133
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,440
Speaker 1: not too far, just just a dip of the toe

134
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,880
Speaker 1: and uh, and make sure to keep on those petticoats, ladies, um,

135
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,040
Speaker 1: because otherwise it would be unto old. But it's true.

136
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: There became a sort of offshoot of all this naturalism

137
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 1: that was considered like for for the girls, and it

138
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: was the collecting of seaweed. The collecting, drying, and preserving

139
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:59,199
Speaker 1: in albums or scrap books of seaweed was huge, particularly

140
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 1: in the middle class. Uh, not only in England but

141
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 1: also in New England in America. Yeah, this is a

142
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 1: transatlantic phenomenon. And I love the idea of people taking

143
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 1: a constitutional I just enjoy Victorian phrases so very much.

144
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 1: People are into fur and feathers, there into taxes, dermy.

145
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:25,320
Speaker 1: We're seeing the age of the self described gentleman scientists,

146
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 1: which I love. I love the idea of a gentleman scientists.

147
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 1: They travel across the planet just collecting plants and animals,

148
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,560
Speaker 1: describing them, classifying them. It's cool to be a nerd

149
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,920
Speaker 1: at this time. A lot of people want to be nerds,

150
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: but there's still a lot of misogyny. This misogyny is

151
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 1: not going to hold. It's it's not a sustainable type

152
00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:57,200
Speaker 1: of discrimination in this part of history. Because we're seeing

153
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 1: the democratization of technology and of learning. There are more

154
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,400
Speaker 1: rail networks expanding, you know, definitely in the UK, and

155
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 1: more people are having more free time. So you don't

156
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,199
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be a viscount or an archduke to

157
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,199
Speaker 1: care about studying you know, birds or bats or what

158
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,560
Speaker 1: have you. You now just are a person who has

159
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 1: a hobby. Microscopes are no longer, insanely expensive bird collecting clubs, well,

160
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 1: collecting clubs of any kind start spring up like wildfire

161
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,559
Speaker 1: across Britain. And this is where I think we should

162
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,479
Speaker 1: introduce a guy named Dr Stephen Hunt, a researcher environmental

163
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 1: humanities work in the University of the West of England,

164
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 1: and he notes all these factors and says that because

165
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 1: of this, in the nineteenth century, Britain became a hotbed

166
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:56,199
Speaker 1: of biological enthusiasm and natural history encountered this sort of

167
00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 1: you could call it a renaissance, but not the thoughts

168
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,400
Speaker 1: time period renaissance in interest. It's an amazing time for scientists,

169
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 1: it really is. And um Cara Giamo over at Atlas

170
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: Obscura wrote a really fantastic article called the Forgotten Victorian

171
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,880
Speaker 1: Craze for Collecting seaweed um that we refer to for

172
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: this episode quite a few times. And these quotes from

173
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 1: Dr Stephen Hunt um were originally seen in that article.

174
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,920
Speaker 1: And Hunt really describes it beautifully when he describes this

175
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,200
Speaker 1: as a democratization of natural history, you know, in the

176
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:31,679
Speaker 1: same way that I like to refer to I mean,

177
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,400
Speaker 1: not just me, but like the democratization of technology is

178
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,559
Speaker 1: what is allowed in in the era that we currently

179
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 1: live in. A lot of art to flourish, a lot

180
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 1: of music to flourish. People now have garage band on

181
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 1: their computers that comes like preinstalled. Um, it's a lot

182
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 1: more affordable to get a decent DSLR camera out there

183
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 1: on your phone, you know. So that is a similar

184
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 1: situation where because of the things that you're saying, ben

185
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,920
Speaker 1: like the prices of microscopes becoming much more affordable to

186
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not the average person, but at the

187
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 1: very least middle class. I guess that is kind of average,

188
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 1: is nous um, So let's just go back the average person.

189
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 1: It was a big deal. People were able to kind

190
00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,319
Speaker 1: of become these fair weather kind of natural history enthusiasts,

191
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: but again not women. And a lot of this too

192
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: had to do with the shift to um wage earning

193
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 1: wage labor, creating this very novel concept of free time.

194
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 1: You know, people weren't just like spinning yard and the

195
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 1: factory anymore like you know, shoveling coal. Uh, there was

196
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 1: a lot more time to do things for leisure. By

197
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: the way, I learned in this other article that we

198
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: looked at Collector's Weekly dot com who published an article

199
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 1: UH called When Housewives Were Seduced by Seaweed scandalous that

200
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 1: refers to the idea of a withdrawing room. I didn't

201
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 1: know that drawing room was short for withdrawing room. And

202
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,600
Speaker 1: I want to say, isn't a really kind of superfluous shortening,

203
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,439
Speaker 1: Like is withdrawing that much longer than just drawing? I

204
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,760
Speaker 1: don't know that that was necessary, but it's the withdrawing

205
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 1: rooms of course, like you know, the parlor right where

206
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,319
Speaker 1: people would hang out and maybe do their do their

207
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 1: little little crafts. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is also the

208
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 1: age where the well to do people have very specific

209
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,199
Speaker 1: rooms or areas of their estates. The orangery right where

210
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,240
Speaker 1: you just grow oranges to flex on people. So it's

211
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 1: not it's not too unusual, but it stinks to be

212
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,439
Speaker 1: a woman or someone identifying as female and have this

213
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 1: same interest in the natural world and continually get stone

214
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,319
Speaker 1: walled by people. It may strike many of us as

215
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 1: odd or paradoxical or hypocritical today to realize that the

216
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 1: folks who were really into learning and and thought of

217
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: themselves was very intelligent. We're also very into gate keeping.

218
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:55,120
Speaker 1: The royal Society, the Linnaean Society. All those groups refused

219
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: female members, and some wouldn't even let them show up

220
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,079
Speaker 1: to the public speeches where we're like, hey, let's explain

221
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,079
Speaker 1: what a badger is. And women weren't allowed to hunt animals.

222
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 1: It was seen as too dangerous and digging up plants

223
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,920
Speaker 1: was get this seen as like too erotically charged. Oh

224
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 1: my goodness, that's because well why because plants like reproduce,

225
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,840
Speaker 1: you know, like, uh, isn't it a sexually though I

226
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,880
Speaker 1: don't fully understand. Maybe some plants are vaguely vaginal, but honestly,

227
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 1: what's more vaginal and kind of erotic than seaweed? Just

228
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 1: wait when these guys here about Georgia O'Keefe anyhow, Like

229
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 1: the Linnean bought me like this thought was based on

230
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,120
Speaker 1: the sexual parts of the of the plant, according to

231
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 1: Dr Hunt. So it was seen as controversial and, as

232
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 1: we said earlier, untoward to be digging plants out of

233
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,240
Speaker 1: the ground because it was too sexually charged. And that's

234
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: where seaweed comes in. This story is strange, but seaweed

235
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 1: is seen as very wholesome. It's very like innocuous. It

236
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: doesn't have a bunch of sex organs that worry the

237
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,480
Speaker 1: more prudish people in society. And it's kind of close

238
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 1: to home because a lot of people live on the coastline,

239
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 1: so it's considered healthy and wholesome. Are allowable for women

240
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 1: to go take in the shore and and stroll along

241
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 1: the beach. They might just go on a family vacation.

242
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 1: They might be trying to get to a place with

243
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: better weather because of a medical condition, and a lot

244
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: of them are already really into scrap booking. So they

245
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:49,520
Speaker 1: noticed that seaweed has such a vast variety of sizes

246
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 1: and shapes, and they started saying, hey, this is decoration.

247
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 1: Society will allow us to decoration that allow us to

248
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: do scrap booking. But at the same time, and we're

249
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 1: going to be able to satisfy some part of our

250
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 1: scientific curiosity without the boys clubs of the world shutting

251
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: us down yet again. Yeah, it's um, it's interesting. I mean,

252
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 1: things like pressing flowers are trying, and pressing flowers was

253
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 1: already pretty popular, despite the hilarious idea of plants being

254
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 1: controversial because of their sexuality. That just really cracks me up.

255
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 1: But this is just kind of an extension of that.

256
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 1: See weed and is perfectly fit for this because it

257
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: can flatten out beautifully and you can kind of paste

258
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: it to a page. You can even use photographic technology

259
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 1: or photographic techniques to create what are called cyanotype prints.

260
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 1: There was a very well known book at the time

261
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 1: by Anna Atkins called Photographs of British Algae. This is

262
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 1: in the eighteen forties, by the way, and um she

263
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 1: used sense really just photographic light sensitive, you know, photographic

264
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,639
Speaker 1: paper to create these cyanotype prints to document these various

265
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 1: types of seaweed. And when you look at some of

266
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: these books, I would really recommend checking out that acts

267
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: Obscure article. Ben. I know you're a big fan of

268
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 1: the Voyantage Manuscript. I think you own a copy of it.

269
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 1: We've talked about it many times on our other podcast,

270
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 1: Stuff that Don't want you to know for anyone that's

271
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 1: not familiar. It is a mysterious book that kind of

272
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 1: chronicles a lot of like alien flora and fauna, more

273
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: and more flora really right than fauna. Um. I guess

274
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: it has some kind of like creatures depicted in it,

275
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 1: but a lot of the very seaweed like, wouldn't you say?

276
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,879
Speaker 1: And and and also very similar layout to what you see

277
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,239
Speaker 1: in in some of these British um you know, uh,

278
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,680
Speaker 1: seaweed scrap books. Yeah, yeah, and I love whenever somebody

279
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:57,720
Speaker 1: mentioned that manuscript. I'd also like to shout out a

280
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 1: thematic successor to that, the Codex Seraphinus shows shout out

281
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: to Luigi Serafini for making a on purpose, incomprehensible book.

282
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: It's such a great read. Uh, maybe we should start

283
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 1: a book club. But how do you start a book

284
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: club with books that are designed not to be legible? Anyway?

285
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: Story for another day, But you you are right. People

286
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 1: are all of a sudden in the world of publishing

287
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: discovering that books on identifying and preserving seaweed are a

288
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 1: surefire bet people are gonna buy them. So now there's

289
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: a there's a market motivation to popularize this idea. More

290
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 1: and more people get involved. We mentioned New England, UM

291
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 1: mentioned the UK, also Canada. A lot of Canadian people

292
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,880
Speaker 1: start going into tide pools to collect and press seaweed

293
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: of their own. Now, it didn't get as popular as

294
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 1: some other hobbies at the time because you needed a

295
00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: little more technical aptitude. Depressed seaweed and seaweed does doesn't

296
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 1: grow everywhere. It's in the name, you know what I mean.

297
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 1: So if you are inland, you're gonna have to take

298
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 1: a trip, You're gonna have to physically go somewhere to

299
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: engage in this hobby. And there there were, to be clear,

300
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: there were some male seaweed collectors, but they lived a

301
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,560
Speaker 1: very different life. They were starting on third base in

302
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: this endeavor. They were able to be by choice. They

303
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 1: could they could have done whatever else they wanted, but

304
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 1: they chose the seaweed life. The seaweed life didn't choose them. Yeah, yeah,

305
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 1: well put so, women were you know, again, not seen

306
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: as scientists by the powers that be at this point.

307
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,199
Speaker 1: So if a guy is collecting seaweed, like if Max

308
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: is out collecting seaweed and makes a book about it,

309
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 1: then Max is going to be treated like the pre

310
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: eminent scientists of seaweed. And then if we had you know, um,

311
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,280
Speaker 1: like Eve's Jeffcoat doing the same work at the same time,

312
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: since iety would have instead treated her as like a

313
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 1: person with a quirky, cute hobby even though they were

314
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 1: both like conducting real science. Absolutely, and and let's let's

315
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: not forget um, this is something that really takes uh

316
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 1: some talent um at the very least stick toutiveness and

317
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: and and the ability to really like learn how to

318
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 1: do this correctly, because like you said, Ben, it wasn't

319
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: nearly as easy as maybe dried flowers. Uh not anyone

320
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: could do this. The article that I mentioned earlier in

321
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: uh Collectors Weekly, when Housewives are Seduced by Seaweed by

322
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: Hunter Oatman Stanford has a really great quote that I

323
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: think sums this up nicely. He says, part of the

324
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: appeal was what a seaweed collection said about the collector.

325
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 1: Anyone could appreciate and collect flowers, but painstakingly obtaining, preserving,

326
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 1: and mounting seaweed specimens demonstrated patients artistic talent and the

327
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: refined sensibilities necessary to appreciate the more subtle beauties of nature.

328
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: And in fact, Queen Victoria was known, you know, of

329
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 1: the Victorian age queen, that Queen Victoria was known to

330
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: have made a seaweed album when she was a young lady.

331
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: Even even the Queen approves off Mike max yettam, I

332
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: was just gonna stay at the moment of that. I

333
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 1: resent you for make putting me in that comparison, making

334
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 1: me the bad guy. Oh, we'll keep it up up. Sorry, Max.

335
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 1: I have a I have a little list to the

336
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: to the right of my monitor of who has to

337
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: who has to be the bad cops. So I I

338
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: rotated out but prioritize the three of us over guests,

339
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: just because we could take it. You know, usually you'll

340
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: you'll be the good guy in a later example. Sure, okay,

341
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: all right, And it holds me to that. So you

342
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: make a great point, Noll to that the the idea

343
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: that the most powerful political figure and social figure in

344
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: the country also approves, people are going to be incredibly

345
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: hesitant to criticize seaweed collecting when the monarchy itself is

346
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: engaged in it. And there's a religious aspect here that

347
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: we also have to acknowledge. It's discussed by Peter Harrington

348
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: over at Peter Harrington dot co dot uk where he

349
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: explores this idea of the inter relationship of seaweed collecting

350
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: in society, and he said, if you go to his website,

351
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 1: actually you'll see a real a real live seaweed scrap

352
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: book and it looks really cool, it looks professional, there's

353
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: a great artistry to it. But for the Victorians, the

354
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: natural world was still very much tied to religious and

355
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: moral ideas. So if you're going to defend yourself, if

356
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: you're identifying as female at this time and somebody's giving

357
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: you a hard time about seaweed collecting, what you could

358
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: do is say, well this, I'm, you know, very pious,

359
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 1: and this gives me a new appreciation of the world

360
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: God created. And then people would say, all right, as

361
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: long as you're not doing science, right, okay, and well

362
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: back to back to whatever game we're playing in the

363
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: withdrawing room. Whist is with the card game? What is

364
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: whist Uh? Well, I mean you can be one can

365
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: be whistful, so it should logic follows that whists is

366
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: a thing that one can be full of. I don't

367
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: know what it is. It is a game, and it's

368
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: a game that would right you know, of course, you know, Max.

369
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: What is whist with is a classic English trick taking

370
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: card game. I am totally not reading this off Wikipedia,

371
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: which was played widely in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

372
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: Although the rules are simple, there is a scope for

373
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: a strategic play. So yeah, there's no answer, and wanted

374
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: to said out there interesting and also not reading off

375
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: of Wikipedia. I'm reading on etymology online. Actually dam edam online.

376
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: That's a portmanteaus far to say, um, wistful is actually

377
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: described as being closely attentive. I always thought wistful of

378
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: men you were kind of like melancholy. Or I've I've

379
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: been yeah, I've been misusing that. I guess it says here,

380
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: um wistful. Well, never mind. Other the atomology is a

381
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: little different than maybe the way it's used in you know,

382
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: the parlance of our times. But it does refer to

383
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: in early seventeenth century. Um kind of I guess obsolete

384
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: kind of translation of the word uh whistley, which could

385
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: have been influenced by the word wishful. So unrelated to

386
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: the game whist I was hoping there was a connection,

387
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: but as it's a case with etymology, sometimes the obvious

388
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: seeming thing has nothing to do with anything. Yeah, like

389
00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: the word lepidopters. They study butterflies and moths. Well, but

390
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: Lepidoptera is the genus I believe of butterflies, right, yes, yeah,

391
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: And we know this because I introduced us. Uh. I

392
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: was waiting for a chance to use that word for

393
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: years and years, and it came up in strange news

394
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 1: which is a weekly segment we do on stuff they

395
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Uh, we're we're always learning

396
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: weird and strange things. So shout out to any lepidopterist

397
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: in the crowd, amateur or professional, and good luck with

398
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: you and on. That's part of the story. You'll have

399
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: to tune in to see what we're talking about, but

400
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: that's what you do. It's a fun. Results of mileage

401
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: may vary on the fun, but we always inject some

402
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: fun into the proceedings, even if it's a heavy topic.

403
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: We sure tried and always sure try. So Let's say

404
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: you go to see a seaweed display and someone's like,

405
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: look at the seaweeds I have collected. What would this

406
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: look like? Um, there's a cool website from Harvard University's

407
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: library that talks about the process. Basically, first you you

408
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: clean it in salt water. Then you place it on

409
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: the special mounting paper, and then the collector kind of

410
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: cleans it up. They might trim stuff they don't want

411
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: on there. They'll spend some time carefully arranging it just

412
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: so in a way they find aesthetically pleasing. Then it's

413
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: layered between another kind of paper, blotting paper, and you

414
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: just put a lot of weight on it until it

415
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: dries and all the moisture is God's like fifty pounds

416
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: of something, you know. And and in that way, it's

417
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: similar to pressing flowers. Uh, here's what happens when you're

418
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: doing this. See we starts exuding a gunk like a

419
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: gelatinous material that sticks, that replaces adhesive. It's kind of

420
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: it's almost like okra, which is a muse ilogenous vegetable.

421
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: That's why okra has snot. And that's another word I

422
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: never get to say. I have knocked him off the

423
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: list here, man, But yeah, seaweeds not. Yeah, but I

424
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: just have to say ocraf for me, is is pretty

425
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: useless unless fried and dipped in some sort of sauce

426
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: because I don't really particularly need snot inside my vegetables,

427
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Yeah, you know, teach their own

428
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: teach though, And some people look at okra and say,

429
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: I've got enough snot already. But there you just have.

430
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: It's tricky to cook it, you know. Well that anyway,

431
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: before I before I accidentally turned this into a segment

432
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: on weird ocra facts, it's pretty neat that the seaweed

433
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: itself can produce its own glue, so you don't see

434
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: actual glue holding the specimens down. And as far as

435
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: the Harvard Library is concerned, this was a pretty great

436
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: a pretty great process because it also removed any uncouth smells. Uh.

437
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: They say that the album they have doesn't have an odor,

438
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: but they they're still on the fence about whether it

439
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: doesn't smell because of the process of precedent or just

440
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: because this book is also more old. And then and

441
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: then going back to Collector's Weekly dot com article that

442
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, No, there's a great moment in there

443
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: where the author says the Victorian era was also a

444
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: more pungent time. So I suspect they either wouldn't have

445
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: been bothered by the smell they would have used a

446
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: creative method to minimize it. I love just thinking an

447
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: air of time is generally more pungent. I mean, sure,

448
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: we talked about in in the past episode the Great

449
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: Stink of London, I mean, sewage for a time just

450
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: ran rampant through the streets. It was a smelly, smelly

451
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: time to be alive. Bathing was a real luxury for

452
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: many folks, even the upper class. You know, And and and

453
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: what what didn't they like wash their whites in urine

454
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: sometimes too, well, yeah, you know, sometimes you get into

455
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: situations bad. That's one of those responses we just won't

456
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: follow up on. Let's give some shout outs to notable

457
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: seaweed hunters. Right now, we don't know in terms of

458
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: solid numbers. We don't know how many people were out

459
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: hunting and displaying seaweed. We mentioned Queen Victoria's She's one

460
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: of the most famous seaweed collectors. Author George Elliott has

461
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: talked about an interest in seaweeds and some people did

462
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: make some coin off of it, people like Margaret Gatty,

463
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: who was an author of children's books and then started

464
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: collecting seaweed while she was convalescing recovering from illness in

465
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: eight in the southeast of Written. She was what people

466
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: started to call a sea weeder. Her book British Sea

467
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: Weeds describes a ton of local seaweeds and it's really

468
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: nice book. It's got colored plates, it's it's prestigious. It's

469
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: what you would have like put on a coffee table

470
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: to impress your guests. Absolutely, and think about it. Back

471
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: in those days, I mean, there wouldn't be mass production

472
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: of these types of you know, very bespoke books, so

473
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: they would have been much rarer and like cooler, you know,

474
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: with like engraved printing and and you know, gold foiling

475
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: and things like that. I mean, that would have been

476
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: a really cool book. It makes me like start wanting

477
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: to get into like vintage book collecting. But that is

478
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: a slippery slope, my friend, very deep and expensive rabbit hole,

479
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: it really is. And I've you know, I've got some.

480
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: I've got some nice books. I've got some. I have

481
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: a few from my dad, like old Dickens books that

482
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: are very very very beautiful. That's awesome. Yeah, and I've

483
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: got I've got some friends who collect books as well.

484
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: But it can be you can be a very expensive hobby.

485
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: So you could. You might, if you are a bibliophile,

486
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: you might have a seaweed book of this sort somewhere

487
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: in your collection. It's possible because we we know, just

488
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: based on the number of these books that are around

489
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: from that era, that it was a pretty popular pursuit. Now,

490
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: even if you're at the level of Margaret Gatty, you're

491
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: still not calling yourself a scientist. You're saying I appreciate

492
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: God's grace and Nature's beauty. And if you read some

493
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: of the statements that people make about this in this field,

494
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: like Dr Hunt points out, a lot of the writers

495
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: were kind of self deprecating. They really took pains not

496
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: to anger those those boys clubs that wouldn't let them

497
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: into the meetings, which stinks because they're doing valuable work.

498
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: And in some cases people came to rely on it

499
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: just to spice up their day, to spice up the weeks.

500
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: They called it a necessary repast. That's at least what

501
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: Gaddy said when she wrote a letter about seeweed collecting

502
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: to her sister in law. And because they like the

503
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: language they use is so evocative. It doesn't have the

504
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: same kind of dry classification technical writing aspects of what

505
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: of like male seaweed hunters in British seaweeds there's this

506
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: one description is cool and this was in uh this

507
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: is an Atlas Obscurity too. One specimen seaweed is described

508
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: as get this. I thought you would like this word delicately,

509
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: Member Naceus, Oh yeah, Memberinus And yeah, is this the

510
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: same person that kind of gave some tips on how

511
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: to go about it the process like for a for

512
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: a novice, Yes, yeah, she's popularizing this. Getty is popularizing

513
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: this and also is kind of an an evangelist for

514
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: Seaweed Collective. Yeah, evangelist. As you mentioned earlier. I mean

515
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: there there there was a kind of religious reverie attached

516
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: to this, um, you know, process of of somehow getting

517
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: closer to what God hath made, you know, and all

518
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Um. But Gaddy gives some tips, you know,

519
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: to kind of further democratize this process and and let

520
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, maybe women that are wanting to kind of

521
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: dip their toe in the and seaweed collecting, uh, some

522
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: tips on how to go about it. One I mentioned

523
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: earlier about the idea of wearing your petticoats, you know,

524
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: while on the seaweed hunt, that came directly from her.

525
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: She encouraged would be seaweed hunters too, continue to wear

526
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: their petticoats on top, she said, but she refers to

527
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: them as necessary necessary draperies, right, um, but then suggests

528
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: that they should wear men's boots and own it. She

529
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: has this quote, Uh, feel all the luxury of not

530
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: having to be afraid of your boots, feel all the

531
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: comfort of walking steadily forward, the very strength of the

532
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: souls making you tread firm. And I will say, I

533
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: remember I had this boss that's really cool, older dude

534
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: named Alan Cook, who he's a great guitar player. I

535
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: worked from a radio station and he like did this

536
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: classical music show. But he gave me this really good

537
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: piece of advice one time. He said, if you're doing

538
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 1: yard work, where those really thick leather gardening gloves, he said,

539
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: because they make you stronger. And he's right. If you

540
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: have if you're not afraid of, you know, digging up

541
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,479
Speaker 1: your delicate you know fingies, you're gonna grip things harder

542
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be more confident. And I love this

543
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: idea of like feeling the souls making you tread firm.

544
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: You know, it reminds me of that piece of advice

545
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: I got. Yeah, Yeah, that's great advice. Honestly, there's another

546
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: piece of advice that Gaddy gives where she says she

547
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: basically tells people to use the buddy system. She's because

548
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: you know, they're still getting a little further away from

549
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: urban areas. Chores can be dangerous, they're slippery rocks, tides

550
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: can be tricky if you get too far out, So

551
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: that leads Getty to write a new water mark expedition

552
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: is more comfortably undertaken under the protection of a gentleman.

553
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: So she also talks about how to convince the guy

554
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: to go with you on this thing. Uh, And she says,

555
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, try to sweeten the pot with enticements. And

556
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: she notes he may fossilize or sketch or even if

557
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: he will be savage and barbaric shoot gulls. So it's

558
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: like saying to you know, a partner or someone you knows,

559
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: the dude saying, I want to go seaweed hunting, but

560
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: it'll be fun for you too. You can shoot some

561
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: seagulls I don't know. Man, make the most of it.

562
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: That's how they would try to get a chaperone because

563
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: chaperone chaperoning was still very much a thing. Right And

564
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: now that we've kind of laid out what this was,

565
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: how popular it was, even though a lot of people

566
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: today have never heard about it, we have to ask

567
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: why is it not around today? Why did it eventually?

568
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: And we're not we didn't make up why did it

569
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: dry out? We we've seen this pun referenced in multiple sources,

570
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: this word play, and this was a fat. It was

571
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: very popular fat. It was a fat, And no, what

572
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: if fads do just kind of go away after a

573
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: time sometimes, I mean, I don't know, sometimes unfair to

574
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: label something as a fat. It could just be cyclical, right,

575
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: Sometimes things are really hot and then they kind of

576
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: go away and they come back into fashion. So just

577
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: because something as labeled as a fat doesn't mean it's

578
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: like forever irrelevant. Who knows, there could be a new

579
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: seaweed craze come back. People love all this kind of

580
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: vented stuff, and everyone that I've told about this, he

581
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: had no idea this was ever a thing. And B

582
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: is instantly like, oh, that kind of makes sense. That

583
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: sounds kind of cool. But also it does require sort

584
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: of a position of privilege, doesn't it, Because you have

585
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: to be near the seaside, you have to be geographically

586
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: adjacent to a place where seaweed naturally occurs, or I

587
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe you can get it by mail, but

588
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem right, That doesn't seem like that would

589
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: do the trick. I mean, I'm sure there's there's fancy

590
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: ways of preserving this stuff in the mail, but that's

591
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: sort of like takes half the fun out of it,

592
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: doesn't it right. So this is weird because it became

593
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: a little less popular as Victorian society began to be

594
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: less uptight. It began to be okay to just say

595
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go have fun, you know what I mean.

596
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: And so even if you look at a lot of

597
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: the experts, they're not hundred percent sure exactly when seaweed

598
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: collecting became less cool, but they're guessing it happened in

599
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century as Victorian as Victorian thoughts give

600
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: way to what we call modernism, and it's kind of

601
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: hard to find scrap books who are guide books past

602
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: that area of time, But we can safely say it

603
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: was probably still practiced by a few people. It was there.

604
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: There may be people with this hobby today because for

605
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: some folks there's a lot of nostalgia in it, you know,

606
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: like I went and collected seaweed as a young child

607
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: with my mother, and now I meet my sister every

608
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: summer and we collect seaweed for our family seaweed book.

609
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: That's cool. That's wholesome. It is. All of this does

610
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: pretty wholesome, you know. This is one of the most

611
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: wholesome episodes. I think we've done in a while, aside

612
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: from the whole rampant misogyny that sort of forced women

613
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: to trapes around in ponds, uh, in men's boots secretly,

614
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: you know, obscured beneath their petticoats. But at the end

615
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: of the day, this does kind of mark one of

616
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: those crossover moments, ben you know what I mean, between

617
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: like a generation almost where it's like the softening of

618
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: the attitude, like well, women can maybe collect seaweed and

619
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: make scrap books, and then before you know, and enough

620
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: time goes by, women can look through microscopes and then

621
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: women can you know, work outside the home. Crazy to think,

622
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: but it is little steps like this to lead to

623
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: those larger overarching changes in the way, uh you know,

624
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: society treated women. Yeah, exactly. And there's another change that

625
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: maybe on the way. Scrap Booking is still very popular

626
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: and I think our pal Diana Brown or or Ridiculous

627
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 1: Romance told us she actually went to a scrap booking

628
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: convention one Time's right, that's right, yeah, and do check

629
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: out Ridiculous Romance. We are Key's huge fans of the shows. Um,

630
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: so it's weird that we think, like we see another

631
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: sea change because scrap booking is still around. But what

632
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: happens when the idea of preserving ephemera like this shout

633
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: out to you Max, what happens when it moves into

634
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: the digital realm? Like, yes, everybody has a camera on

635
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: their phone or a lot of people have cameras on

636
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: their phones, and they take excellent photos. But what are

637
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: your odds of printing that and making a little book

638
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: with it? Your You might you probably just forward it

639
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: and say like, ha ha, last night was epic. Oh,

640
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: it's a really good point. B It's something that we

641
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: haven't discussed at all, but I think we talked about

642
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: a little bit off podcasts. Yeah, the idea of you know,

643
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: my mom is very, very still fixated on having printed

644
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: things because she doesn't really be comfortable with the digital realm. Um,

645
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: she you know, it's a really good Christmas present for

646
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: her if I like take some cell phone photos and

647
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: like get them printed, because there are you know, websites

648
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: that will make a pretty nice, high quality print out

649
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: of these high resu you shouldn't phone photos, but most people,

650
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: you're right, don't go to those steps, and that's what

651
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: puts things in the realm of ephemera. Shout out to

652
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: Ephemeral UH show that are our buddy Alex Williams and

653
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: super producer Max Williams uh make together um in addition

654
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: to a few other amazing folks. But it's a show

655
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: about things that kind of disappear over time, whether because

656
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: they're lost or they just deteriorate. There is something finite

657
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: about these things, but in a way, something more lasting,

658
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, like for some reason, like a

659
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: digital file to me, while sure it's technically indestructible, you

660
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: couldn't reproduce it given an apocalypse event anymore if you

661
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: didn't have the technology to uh encode it or too

662
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: to decode it um. Whereas a wax cylinder or like

663
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: a vinyl record or a photograph or something like that,

664
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: you could find ways to probably rake something up to

665
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: enjoy that, you know, like you could probably make a

666
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: turntable out of a coconut and some pine needles or something.

667
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm sort of half choking, but I'm

668
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: also not analog technology and just objects are in some ways,

669
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: you know, more real inherently. Yeah, That's why I like

670
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: older cars. That's why I prefer physical books because the

671
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: it's just different reading a book that way. Uh, the

672
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: tangible aspect of it makes, in my opinion, whatever you're

673
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: whatever you're digesting, feel more real. And that's a great point.

674
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: Now this is where we get we we're drawing a

675
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: bit to a close. Margaret Gaddy had a long life

676
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: and she loved seaweed collecting up until her up until

677
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: she passed away in eighteen seventy three. Her collections have survived.

678
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: You can see them today at the St Andrew's University

679
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: and Scotland, and curators have been going working to restore these,

680
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: to organize them. Uh. And she even has a species

681
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: of Australian algae named after her, the Daddya pimeella. So

682
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: congratulations to you, Margaret Daddy. Although it took way too

683
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: long in my opinion, you did finally get your doe

684
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: as a scientist. Getting something named after you is pretty great, right,

685
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: it is pretty great. And um, wasn't there a spider

686
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: or something that was named after Dave Coolier recently? I

687
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm also a fan of like celebrity namings

688
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: of creatures. Others are David Bowie spider, you know, because

689
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: like the spiders from Mars and all that there are

690
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: some incredibly funny ones, but I can't I'm trying to remember. Uh.

691
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: There were some examples I saw of names that were

692
00:43:55,239 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: meant to be insulting, like you name a hum bowl

693
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: dung related animal after some politician or celebrity didn't like.

694
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: But just just for fun, let me read you, guys,

695
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: some real names for things from our friends at mental Floss,

696
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: because we always love to shut up Mental Floss. These

697
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: are real scientific names. Mhm, Turtise Maximus, that's a bird?

698
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: Is that like the turd ferguson related that? I'll Ben,

699
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: I've already shouted you after this, I believe, maybe not

700
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: on this show. But Ben gave me the most wonderful,

701
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: thoughtful gift. It was a book called Dumb Birds of

702
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: North America, and the cover of it has a bird

703
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: on it called like the North Kentucky butt Nugget or

704
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: something like that. I'm not sure if if how much

705
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: of it is real and how much of it is

706
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: just total first, but it's like the only bird book

707
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: that I would ever want to own, and I thank

708
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: you again heartly for that. I have it in my bathroom.

709
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: It's like the bathroom reader for when guests are you

710
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: know taking repost that is a place of prestige. Uh.

711
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: And all the entries just to shout that book out,

712
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: the field Guide to Dumb North American Birds or Dumb

713
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: Birds in North America. All the entries are max bleep

714
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 1: me on this are stuff like you know, the Great

715
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: American and the first paragraph that says something like this

716
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: motherfucker is a real piece of crap, you know what

717
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: I mean? Like the it's not for children, but if

718
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: you have you have some I don't know. I think

719
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: teenagers like that book to write like your daughter likes it,

720
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: I bet absolutely, And my girlfriend day loves it. I

721
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: think she she is absolutely in love with that book.

722
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: So it's a lot of fun check it out. But man,

723
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: who knew that we could talk about seaweed scrap Book

724
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: And for forty five minutes Tuesday I had a suspicion

725
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 1: and off air I had, um we have been talking,

726
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: and I had said, Okay, we might need to lean

727
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: into the banter on this one and see what you know,

728
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: if we have any tangents that will take us someplace

729
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: really crazy, which is leading to I think first ever

730
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: tangent Teas it turns out they are good buddy. Mr

731
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: Max Williams is an expert the sport of curling, and

732
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: I I don't know about you know, but I have

733
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: at best a very vague understanding of what curling is.

734
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: So one day, in an upcoming episode, we're going to

735
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: have Max introduces to curling. If you would be so kind,

736
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: Mr Williams, it seems like you need a lot of stuff.

737
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: You know, first you need an ice drink, than you

738
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: need those stones and the weird brooms and special shoes. Yeah,

739
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,879
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, it's a lot less than you think.

740
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: But Ben, I do have a good, you know, teaser story.

741
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: I remember it was the year was It was in February.

742
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: I was actually hanging out with the esteem Noel Brown

743
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: at a cabin and yeah, I'm about I'm about to, like,

744
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, watch the gold medal matth United States versus Sweeden.

745
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: No I think just like A looked at me. He

746
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: goes okay, and then went to thought of sorry, I

747
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: didn't mean. I didn't mean to be dismissive. You know,

748
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: I just never met a curling inuzzy as before. I

749
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: remember you just being very confused the entire You're like,

750
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: so wait, you're gonna stay up because you know it

751
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: wasn't created. It's very late. It's like, you're gonna stay

752
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: up really late and watch this. I'm like yeah, He's like, okay,

753
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: all right, you know you do you buddy, that's how

754
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: to go. You remember who one? Oh? Yes, the United

755
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: States won the gold medal. Oh my god, congratulations a

756
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 1: year later. Two years later, so four years it felt

757
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: worth it, right, So this is just one example of

758
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: many many niche hobbies that came about during this time.

759
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: There are other examples. Diet tom arranging in particular is

760
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: really neat. They kind of look like kaleidoscope if you

761
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: ever had a kaleidoscope as a kid. But maybe those

762
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: are a story for another day. I had a blast

763
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: doing this. When we beat the curse, I referenced, I

764
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: guess we should mention that we wanted to do this

765
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: episode for a while, and we started wondering whether it

766
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: was cursed. Yeah, was largely because of guests, m obligations,

767
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: not obligations. We love all our guests, and we had

768
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: some incredible ones recently for some shows in the Extended

769
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Universe. The e R you right, is that the one?

770
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: And then we had some illness that that caused some

771
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: problems and some scheduling things. But you're right, it's definitely

772
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: one that we've punted quite a few times. But the

773
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: good news is that because of that, I think we

774
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: both got to spend a little more time with his

775
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: material and realize that it is a really cool story

776
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: and not in need of nearly as much banter as

777
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: as we and originally might have thought. But I'm glad

778
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: we got to fit some of that in there at

779
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: the end here. Thanks Max for sharing, and thanks thanks

780
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: for tuning in. Fellow Ridiculous Historians, we would love to

781
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: hear your stories about weird hobbies from days of your

782
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: Let us know. You can find us on our Facebook page,

783
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. You can also hit us up any pretty

784
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: much anywhere on social media, not just as a show,

785
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: but as individuals. I am appen bulling on Instagram. If

786
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: you want spoilers for upcoming research and just weird rabbit

787
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: holes I've found I've fallen down. You can find me

788
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter appen bull in hs W. How about you

789
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: nol catch me outside seaweeding or on Instagram exclusively where

790
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: I am at how now Noel Brown, how about you,

791
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: Max Williams. Yeah, you can find my personal stuff on

792
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: Twitter at a t L on the score, Max Williams.

793
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: And since we've talked about a lot of ephemeral on

794
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: this you can find out more about ephemeral on Instagram

795
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: and Twitter at femeral dot show. We actually have an

796
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: episode of two part coming out this week. It's about

797
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: Earling Kagi. I believe I'm saying that name right. If

798
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: you like the Peter Fersion episode of this show, you

799
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: would love that episode as well, very Peter. I saw

800
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: Alex post about it saying that it was one of

801
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: his favorite conversations he's ever had for this show, so

802
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a really good one.

803
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: I can't wait to check it out. And let me

804
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: say really quickly ridiculous stories. When Max says his personal

805
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: stuff on on Twitter, it gets quite personal. Let me

806
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: tell you, very spicy. It's pretty much your Your Twitter

807
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: is just default setting on after Dark Hot tub Duck

808
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: with Max Williams. Williams. I'll get there one day. So

809
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 1: thank you, of course to Max for spinning this straw

810
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: into audio gold. Thanks of course to Mr Casey Pegram,

811
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams uh and thanks to our at

812
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: this point long lost, much missed, sort of missed nemesis,

813
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland AK, the Quister Christoph roscionis Eve, Jeff codes

814
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: here in spirit. Uh, everyone else, my mom um, the

815
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: ghost of Abraham Lincoln, Tom waits, you know, please what

816
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: that no no one knows? Yeah, the Colonel uh and

817
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: and and and everyone else that we've forgotten. We love

818
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: you all, uh and we'll see you next time. Focus

819
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: m HM. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit

820
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

821
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows