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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and Gentlemen. Another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: Is upon us.

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Speaker 2: Very happy day today here with my family, my Team Supremist.

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Speaker 1: How you guys doing? What up? What up? The way

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Speaker 1: that we're progressing? Uh in the world.

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Speaker 2: It's only a matter of time before we can actually

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Speaker 2: take our themes on back.

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Speaker 3: Oh something, I I think tonight would have been a

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Speaker 3: good night for tales from the Latin Quarter and uh,

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Speaker 3: all kinds of things tonight. See our guests, you'll she

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Speaker 3: just had some.

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Speaker 1: Some or we just might have to insert those things.

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Speaker 2: I'm here with Team Supreme. Uh, here with almighty Unpaid Bill.

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Speaker 2: Oh hey, I'm pivot. Wait Unpaid Bill? Are you part

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Speaker 2: of in conto at all?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is that any of your music? No? No, I'm friends

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Speaker 1: that's hitting Bruno.

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Speaker 3: No, I wish I was, honestly, my my my bank

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Speaker 3: wishes that I was know something about Bruno. But I

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Speaker 3: don't talk about him or anyone I have. No, I

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Speaker 3: have nothing to do with Bruno. I wish I did, though, man,

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Speaker 3: like ten weeks at number one or some ship, Like

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Speaker 3: I wish it's still number one, right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you know liv Manuel is going to mess

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Speaker 2: around and and like beat boys to men. M Mariah Carey,

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Speaker 2: is that still the longest number one number one song

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Speaker 2: sweet Day? I think it is, Okay, I mean I'm

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Speaker 2: from the old school sound scan so you know, or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Method they use now to.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this new math don't count. Like we come from

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Speaker 5: an er when motherfuckers had to lead their house to

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Speaker 5: buy ship. Exactly exactly, That's exactly, dude, that was the

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Speaker 5: way we did.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, I'm sorry because La is you know, she's uh,

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Speaker 2: she's how you doing?

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Speaker 6: Like, yeah, I am doing amazing except for this man,

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Speaker 6: this little gas situation.

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Speaker 1: But I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good. What's what's gas looking like in

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Speaker 1: LA right now?

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Speaker 6: Well, it's funny you asked that my rich friend. Uh,

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Speaker 6: currently gas in Los Angeles is six dollars. We are

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Speaker 6: at about five ninety something.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we'd like it was like four dollars out here.

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Speaker 5: Y'all got iron legend gas prices out there.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, this is something, fante. Do you drive? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is the question you never I mean,

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Speaker 2: spent five years, but I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I can't see kind of like, what car? What kind

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Speaker 1: of car do you have? I got a Lexus RX

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Speaker 1: three fifty. That sounds swanky.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, hey, it's paid for. I ain't buying

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Speaker 5: another car, So you write it out.

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 3: I want I want FaceTime Fante while he was in

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Speaker 3: his car outside of the chicken shop, I believe is

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Speaker 3: what happened?

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Speaker 2: Do you have like a cigarette hanging out of his

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Speaker 2: mouth with just one hand on the wheel. Nah, I

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Speaker 2: just had to do it the way back, like like

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Speaker 2: Dame Dash and painting for Yeah, I have my black father,

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Speaker 2: you know, just get you get home and you pull

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Speaker 2: up in the driveway and you just sit there for

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Speaker 2: about an indeterminate amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Am I the only I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: a tea in my movement?

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Speaker 2: Am I the only one that sometimes just has to

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Speaker 2: sit in the car for ten minutes just so you

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Speaker 2: can brace yourself for whatever is waiting for you.

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Speaker 1: You're not alone? So that's universal talk.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, straight up, Okay, I'm still happy with my relationship.

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Speaker 2: I was just asking for a friend. So, Steve, how

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Speaker 2: you doing, I'm good man. Any anything interesting happening in

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Speaker 2: the network or you know, oh gosh, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't anticipate you asking me that question.

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Speaker 1: So okay, well let me just start again.

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Speaker 2: How you doing, Steve, I didn't anticipate you ask me

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Speaker 2: that either, so I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen? All right, So and I'm I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: winging this.

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Speaker 2: So I'm trying to keep it real sustinct because I

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Speaker 2: realized that our guest hasn't spoken a word yet because

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Speaker 2: I didn't address her or all.

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Speaker 1: Right, I know, I know. So look when when cats,

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Speaker 1: when when dudes my.

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Speaker 2: Age start reminiscing about you know, quote unquote the good

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Speaker 2: old days or real hip hop or true school or

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Speaker 2: whatever we say, our guest name should ring familiar. I

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Speaker 2: think that the thing about well, the thing is is

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Speaker 2: that even though I've never read an interview or seen

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Speaker 2: a television interview, heard it at radio interview on the radio,

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Speaker 2: or even exchange any sort of casual banter with our

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Speaker 2: guests or even DM crept my way into a friendship

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Speaker 2: or a relationship, which is I know that may I

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Speaker 2: made that sound weird, but you know, DM creeping your

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Speaker 2: way into free friendships is kind of real.

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Speaker 1: Like I can actually say that.

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Speaker 2: I'm genuine friends with like Henry Winkler and Working Fairchild

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Speaker 2: just from DM Creeping, which kind of weird.

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Speaker 1: I'm also friends with Tasty Cake Steve wait wait wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait, I like with.

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Speaker 2: Friends with with with non human entities on Twitter. But

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Speaker 2: Morgan Fairchild, dude, it's so random. She started liking, like

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Speaker 2: she started liking a whole bunch of my tweets, and

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Speaker 2: then we're actually BFFs, like, like, hey, when you're in town,

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Speaker 2: let's go to dinner. I mean, I haven't done it yet,

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Speaker 2: but I think I'm down with Morgan Fairchild.

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Speaker 1: Yo. Oh my gosh. I know.

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Speaker 2: It's like the the eight year Old News kind of

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Speaker 2: like happy right now, right, I'm thrilled, thrilled.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, because like house is going to

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Speaker 1: relate to me. All right.

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Speaker 2: My whole point is that, you know, I don't exactly

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Speaker 2: have a relationship with our guest on the show, having

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Speaker 2: grown up in the age of hip hop, where you know,

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Speaker 2: a transition from twelve inch and singles to LPs, and

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Speaker 2: I'm part of the generation that lived for liner notes

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Speaker 2: and seeing who did what. Our next guest name should

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Speaker 2: ring familiar to hip hop heads. Because she was literally

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Speaker 2: president of one of the most powerful labels of the genre.

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Speaker 2: And I don't even want to limit it to hip hop,

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Speaker 2: because you know, I mean, Tommy Boy had hits from

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Speaker 2: club hits to pop music to freestyle to I.

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Speaker 1: Could name them all.

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Speaker 2: De La Soul, Coolio, Digital Underground for Some D's House

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Speaker 2: of Payne, Club, Nouveau K seven, LFO Information Society, Ardi

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Speaker 2: by Nature, the Riza back when he was Prince Raquin

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Speaker 2: RuPaul Queen Latifa, the original hip hop band Statso Sonic. Y'all,

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Speaker 2: y'all really have to understand that the muscle that this

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Speaker 2: label operated with, probably the only other rival label that

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Speaker 2: can even say that they held that same space was

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Speaker 2: probably def jam So Ladies and gentlemen, the very legendary

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Speaker 2: president or former president, Tommy Boy, the one and only

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Speaker 2: Monica Lynch won Quest left set mere.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. I'm doing great, And I really appreciated the

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Speaker 4: conversation about gas prices because now that I'm sixty five,

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Speaker 4: gas price means a whole different thing. I've never driven,

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Speaker 4: I don't drive. I just got a match. You New

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Speaker 4: York say, what's the gas situation. I'm like, let me

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Speaker 4: look at my medicine cabinet. That's what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Wait, you're telling me you never had your license or

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Speaker 2: you never owned a car.

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Speaker 4: We have my license, but I only use it for ID.

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Speaker 4: And the only car I ever drove was a gold

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Speaker 4: Cadillac with power windows that my father owned back in

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Speaker 4: like the early seventies. So the die was cast at

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Speaker 4: a young age.

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Speaker 2: So this is definitely going to lead to my first question,

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Speaker 2: what part, Well, I don't know, were you a natural

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Speaker 2: born in New.

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Speaker 1: Yorker or Chicago? You could hear it from Chicago?

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, Chicago. I'm sixty five, I'm from Chicago, grew

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Speaker 4: up there. Yeah, well, you know, I grew up there

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Speaker 4: and I was, you know, really weaned on Top forty

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Speaker 4: radio when it was still a hugely amazing thing in

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Speaker 4: the late sixties. Heard all the great great pop songs

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Speaker 4: from that era, and back then, you know, blues was

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Speaker 4: definitely still a big thing in Chicago, but it was

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Speaker 4: mostly I would say a lot of white guys. They

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Speaker 4: were checking the blues back in that scene. You know,

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Speaker 4: Paul Butterfield Blues.

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Speaker 1: Band, the Electric Blues.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, right, yep, exactly. And then I start of got

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Speaker 4: into the disco scene. I was a big disco dancer,

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Speaker 4: hustle contest, was a dancer at the big gay bar

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Speaker 4: in Chicago, which is sort of like a It was

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Speaker 4: the Studio fifty four of Chicago. Then I was in

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Speaker 4: a punk band and we'd work at a punk club

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Speaker 4: and did all sorts of things before I came to

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Speaker 4: New York in nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: So you got history. What was your first musical memory.

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Speaker 4: My first musical memory was listening to my parents' records

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Speaker 4: in the basement, and they, of course had the sort

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Speaker 4: of records that you would find in the sixties and

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Speaker 4: a lot of collections. It was everything from Nicholson May

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Speaker 4: to My Fair Lady soundtrack to you know, Herb Albert

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Speaker 4: and the Tijuana Brass, that sort of thing. I had

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Speaker 4: a big crush on Herb Albert back then. And I

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Speaker 4: got my first record player the same year that Rubber

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Speaker 4: Saul came out. That was the first record I ever owned.

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Speaker 4: Was Rubber Saul.

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Speaker 1: That would be sixty five.

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Speaker 4: Uh no, I think it was a little earlier. I think, well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: maybe sixty four. Sixty five was Rubber Saul.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, okay, wow, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: So would you like Did you have any ambitions or

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Speaker 2: goals to be in the music industry or did it

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Speaker 2: sort of find you as you became an adult.

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Speaker 4: I had no ambitions, no goals. I just loved music.

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Speaker 4: I was like I used to buy forty fives all

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Speaker 4: the time. I don't know if you remember that there

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Speaker 4: was something called the Phonologue, this huge like yellow paperback

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Speaker 4: compendium that you could go and do special orders of

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Speaker 4: forty fives at record stores back then. Do you remember that?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I shot at specialty stores. Now they it

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Speaker 2: looks like the yellow pages, like it's just a masterless.

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Speaker 1: So what was the spot we used to stop at them?

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Speaker 1: Philly Steve Val?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so like you go to Val Shively and

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Speaker 2: you know, next to Jerry's Rest in peace, to Jerry's

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Speaker 2: who just passed away like a month ago or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like those specialty record stores, like record stores that have

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Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand records in.

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Speaker 1: Stock, they still have those books there.

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Speaker 2: So you didn't work at a record store, So how

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Speaker 2: would you get access to those records or how would

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Speaker 2: you get access to that book?

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Speaker 4: Well? I was always listening to the top forty stations

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Speaker 4: in Chicago w LS and W CFL and I would

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Speaker 4: go down to the Marina City, those two buildings that

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Speaker 4: look like corn cobs in Chicago, and that's where WLS was,

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Speaker 4: and I was a kid. I would just take the

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Speaker 4: l train down there and you could stand in the

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Speaker 4: lobby and watch the DJ on the air, and they

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Speaker 4: would have these little surveys that they would give you

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Speaker 4: a the top forty records for the week. I know

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Speaker 4: this is really kind of going back like a rocker,

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Speaker 4: but I figure you probably no.

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Speaker 2: Literally, the show is based on long winded rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: The whole point is that get me to not talk

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Speaker 2: so good.

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Speaker 4: Well, so, anyway, so I started, you know, really saying, oh,

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Speaker 4: I want to special order these records because I can't

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Speaker 4: find them at EJ. Corvette's or Montgomery Wards or something.

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Speaker 4: And so back then, as you know, there were always

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Speaker 4: like these great independently owned records stores and you could

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Speaker 4: go there and if you struck up a good relationship

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Speaker 4: with the owner or a clerk, it was a tremendous

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Speaker 4: source of knowledge that was passed along and you could

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Speaker 4: special order these things and just basically loiter in the

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Speaker 4: store and learn a lot and that in fact, you know,

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Speaker 4: we could talk about that in the hip hop era

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Speaker 4: as being a big thing here in New York and

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Speaker 4: other places. But no, I came here, you know, I

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Speaker 4: always say, I came here with you know, on a

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Speaker 4: dollar and a dream, no plans except to go to

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Speaker 4: Studio fifty four. And I landed in New York during

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Speaker 4: the time when it was sort of like the uh,

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Speaker 4: the perfect nexus of punk and disco and no way

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Speaker 4: was happening, and sort of the downtown arts scene and

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Speaker 4: all that stuff that people lieon eye so much. But

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Speaker 4: it was a great time to be in New York

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Speaker 4: because it really was cheap. And I lived on Saint

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Speaker 4: Mark's Place between Second and Third, which was basically like

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Speaker 4: the main runway for you know, people would get up

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Speaker 4: at two three in the afternoon and then sit out

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Speaker 4: on the stoop to watch so and so, you know,

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Speaker 4: Richard Hell come down the street to cop is Dope

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Speaker 4: or whatever you know it was.

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Speaker 2: And I wouldn't say except it's ginger right now it's

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Speaker 2: expensive property, but back then it was cheap.

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Speaker 1: It was something to behold.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, and there was this woman named Anya Phillips

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Speaker 4: who was sort of the one of the co founders

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Speaker 4: of the Mud Club and She was really sort of

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Speaker 4: a downtown duyenne. She was a girlfriend of James White

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Speaker 4: or James Chance, you know, contortions.

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Speaker 7: And she.

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Speaker 4: Sat me down one day. She's very stern, serving a

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Speaker 4: dominatrix sort of way. He said, you're going to be

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Speaker 4: a topless dancer, and I'm going to make g strings

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Speaker 4: for you. Because I had no money, and so I said, okay,

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Speaker 4: sounds like a plan. And I went to this place

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Speaker 4: called the Go Go Agency. And I've recounted this tale

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Speaker 4: many times, but there was a guy there named Johnny

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Speaker 4: and it was like a scene out of Broadway Danny Rose.

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Speaker 4: And you walk up the stairs in this midtown building

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Speaker 4: and there's these big boards and it lists all the

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Speaker 4: topless bars and all five burrows. And he would assign you,

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Speaker 4: you know, he was an agent. Yeah, And so he

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Speaker 4: would send me out to places and queens like the Carousel,

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Speaker 4: or the place up in the Bronx called the Slice,

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Speaker 4: or there was a place over in the meatpacking district

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Speaker 4: when it was still a meatpacking district that you do

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Speaker 4: these and a lot of stuff in Midtown because you

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Speaker 4: got a lot had a lot of customers in Midtown

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Speaker 4: back then. But but yeah, it was wait.

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Speaker 2: I gotta ask, so I you know my era of

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Speaker 2: I say, I'm part of the deaf leopard generation where

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Speaker 2: there's no time where I've not entered a strip club

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Speaker 2: where they forced you to listen to pour some sugar

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Speaker 2: on me, except for Atlanta, except for Atlanta. But back then,

286
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Speaker 2: like would you have to feed the forty five jukebox?

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Speaker 2: Or was there or was it like it is now

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Speaker 2: like welcome to the stage.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, I wish I had an mc welcoming

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Speaker 4: to the stage. It wasn't quite that.

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Speaker 2: Grand I was going to ask if you had a

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Speaker 2: numb to plume?

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Speaker 1: Did you? Did you have a yes? A title? What's

294
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Speaker 1: her name?

295
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Speaker 4: It was mister Smnique. And this was all sort of

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Speaker 4: in the late seventies, you know, so the type of

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Speaker 4: records that you were hearing, I mean, if I hear

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Speaker 4: you know, ring my bell one more time.

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Speaker 1: It's that was sort of like that was yours sugar

300
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Speaker 1: on me?

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Speaker 4: It was it was the poursome sugar of Me of

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Speaker 4: nineteen seventy eight, seventy nine. Yeah, totally, you know, but

303
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Speaker 4: it was disco, you know, because it was certain it

304
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Speaker 4: was sort of like when disco it kind of peaked,

305
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Speaker 4: and it was much more like, uh, these mechanical type

306
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Speaker 4: of records, which not that I'm mad at that, but

307
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Speaker 4: it was those type of records. Ring my bell seems

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Speaker 4: to be the one that always comes back to me

309
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Speaker 4: in my dreams. But I worked at had what I

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Speaker 4: call extended residencies at show World, which you might be

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Speaker 4: might remember that and peep Land, which was also a

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Speaker 4: big player on the on the deuce back then. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: it was steady money, good money. I made cleared fifteen

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Speaker 4: hundred dollars a week at the peak.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta ask the question, so is this all right? You?

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Speaker 2: You remember how it wasn't Papa, don't preach like open

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Speaker 2: your heart. Was it like you sat in a booth

318
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Speaker 2: and you in started a coin and the thing went up?

319
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Speaker 2: And you does that type of strip club still or

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Speaker 2: is that like a thing of the past.

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Speaker 1: Now it's called only fans, Yeah, it is it is that. No,

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Speaker 1: we need somewhere, oh man, No.

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Speaker 4: It was, Hey, these only fans chicks. I think they're

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Speaker 4: pretty smart. They're much more entrepreneurial. I mean, back then

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Speaker 4: I got hired and well, like to say you, for example,

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Speaker 4: the show World, my boss's name was a woman named

327
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Speaker 4: Thunder and she had huge red hair. She was like

328
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Speaker 4: benson Hurst type of gal. And the place was owned

329
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Speaker 4: by a guy who died recently, but it was all

330
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Speaker 4: mob owned. It was oh who is there was one

331
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Speaker 4: of the big mob characters that Frankie the horse Eyanello.

332
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Speaker 4: There was the guy who ran the whole.

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Speaker 1: All that he is named after an animal. Then you

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Speaker 1: know that's bad.

335
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Speaker 4: That's right, that's right. So you know they paid you

336
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Speaker 4: a flat fee, but you made your money. You really

337
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 4: made your money by getting these guys to keep putting

338
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Speaker 4: the coins in and keep the window going up. So

339
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Speaker 4: I would sit on one side and then there'd be the curtain,

340
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Speaker 4: the metal curtain, and the guys would be on the

341
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Speaker 4: other side, and a lot of we had a lot

342
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Speaker 4: of Hasidic customers.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: Thing is, let's get into it. Let's talk about it a botica.

345
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Speaker 4: But you know it's because it's such a repressed, sexually

346
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Speaker 4: repressed culture. I think you'd get a lot in in

347
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Speaker 4: the peep shows.

348
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Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna go there,

349
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Speaker 2: go there. What happens on the guy's side of the booth? Though, Like, well,

350
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Speaker 2: is there a clean up afterwards, like.

351
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, there is mop patrol, isn't isn't this where

352
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 4: there's like first, that's right. If when you walk into

353
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Speaker 4: the place, you give them cash and they give you

354
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 4: these tokens, and the tokens are what allows you to

355
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Speaker 4: go to the boost or to watch a Peep movie

356
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Speaker 4: or things like that. There were They also had live

357
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Speaker 4: sex shows at show World. I didn't do that there,

358
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 4: but they had. But yeah, the idea was to keep

359
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Speaker 4: them putting the money in. So these these were skills

360
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 4: I was able to apply to the music industry not

361
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Speaker 4: too long afterwards.

362
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Speaker 1: With you said you didn't do the live there? Did

363
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 1: you do it somewhere else? Leave it alone?

364
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,239
Speaker 4: You have to you'll have to ask me back. As

365
00:19:54,280 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 4: I guess to answer the second part of that question, I.

366
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Speaker 2: Hear a long time New York residents like begging for

367
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: the time when Old New York returns.

368
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Speaker 1: Is this what they're talking about?

369
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of romanticizing about dirty

370
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Speaker 4: New York of the seventies. I mean literally, the summer

371
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 4: I got there is when they let out a lot

372
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Speaker 4: of people with mental health issues onto the street. They

373
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 4: just dumped them on the street. There was a huge

374
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Speaker 4: garbage strike. There'd been a big blackout in nineteen seventy seven,

375
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Speaker 4: as the Tramps told us about, and there was you know,

376
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 4: it was definitely grungy and dirty, and people liked to say, Oh,

377
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 4: wasn't it great back then because it attracted all these

378
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 4: you know, creative people and blah blah blah. But I

379
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 4: don't really get all. I mean, I like to recount

380
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 4: the stories about that, but I wouldn't want it to

381
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 4: go back to that necessarily.

382
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Speaker 2: So you liked post ninety four Disney Giuliani era a

383
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:02,640
Speaker 2: little better?

384
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 8: No, No, I think I've shared this on the show

385
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 8: once before, Like the first day that we arrived in

386
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Speaker 8: New York, when the roots like really first came to

387
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 8: New York to start mixing.

388
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Speaker 1: Do you want more?

389
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Speaker 2: I believe like in December of ninety three was pretty

390
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: much like I think the.

391
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: Day that whatever.

392
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Speaker 2: I Okay, maybe I've been on forty second Street once

393
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 2: or twice in my life. Like I know we went

394
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: to go see the Whiz, but I don't remember that

395
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 2: much at the age of seven, but you know, I

396
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: do remember us going on forty second Street near our

397
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 2: hotel and like Rich, like my manager what not being

398
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: really disappointed that forty second Streets disnified and not the

399
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 2: CD you know New York that he remembers. And I

400
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 2: remember like people telling us like that week is when

401
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 2: the transformation started and everybody was pissed at it.

402
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 4: So hey, it's nice to be able to be old

403
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 4: enough to look back at it and to remember it

404
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 4: as it was back then. But I'm not getting all

405
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 4: tears in my beer over you know.

406
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: Hey, that's perfect.

407
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 4: Wish it was back, you know, so.

408
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: Club wise, you know, I've been trying to get another

409
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 2: downtown New York diva that made a billion dollar career

410
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: for yourself on this show, but that hasn't happened yet.

411
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 2: So I guess you are really our first witness to

412
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: that era, can you assuming that by this time you're

413
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 2: watching hip hop culture creep into downtown? First of all, like,

414
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: did you go north of the Bronx to any of

415
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: the what was known as the classic eras of hip hop,

416
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: like whatever, the Fever or any of those clubs way north?

417
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I've been to the Fever course, I

418
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 4: know sal from back then. Tea connection. Actually, you know,

419
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 4: a funny thing was I ended up bringing Martin scores

420
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 4: as to the Tea Connection one night to hear Bambada play,

421
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 4: and that was sort of an odd set of circumstances.

422
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 4: But uh, you know, yeah, he knew got describe that.

423
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: They wait, what era of Raging Bull King of comedy?

424
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 4: What era do you This would have been circa eighty

425
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 4: two eighty three, so you tell me comedy. Yeah, And

426
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: he was friends with this guy named Jay Cox, who

427
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 4: was the film at a film critic at Time Magazine

428
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 4: who was related to Tom Silverman, and somehow there was

429
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 4: a conversation, Oh, Marty would really love to go up

430
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 4: and check out this hip hop thing, and bah blah bah,

431
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 4: and and you know, I was like, hey, be happy

432
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 4: to show him, and you know, take him up there.

433
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 4: And so there's a car service, which back then, you know,

434
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: it was a rare thing for maybe have any car

435
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 4: service or anything. But he went up to Tea Connection.

436
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 4: He was pretty quiet, you know, I think he was

437
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 4: just checking it out, observing. And you know, the Time

438
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 4: magazine ended up doing a big story about sort of

439
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 4: the emerging hip hop scene back then. But yeah, I

440
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 4: used to go to some of the places uptown, but

441
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 4: more frequently I would go to every Friday night, we

442
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 4: went to Negrill when that was having when cool Lady

443
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 4: Blue you know, had started doing her nights at Agrill.

444
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 4: And then I would always go to the Roxy on

445
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 4: Friday night, and then following the Roxy, I would head

446
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 4: up a few blocks and go to the Fun House.

447
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: I was very friendly with Jellybean and would hang out

448
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 4: with him a lot. Yes, So those and then the

449
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 4: Dance of course, Dance Aterria was a really great play

450
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 4: to hang out at. And you know before that it

451
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: was like Studio fifty four in the mud Club were

452
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 4: staples for me. But you know, but yeah, Union Squares

453
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: was a place I went to a lot and Amazon Hotel.

454
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 4: That was a big place. Patrick Moxy had Payday I

455
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 4: don't know, okay, yeah, oh yeah, total that was a

456
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 4: big one. Dala Soul did a big premiere performance there.

457
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 4: And I didn't really hang out at Latin Quarters that much.

458
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 4: I left that to Dante. But but yeah, those were

459
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 4: the those were the big clubs that were sort of

460
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 4: happening back then.

461
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, the lure of the or the yeah, the focalore

462
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: of Studio fifty four, like assuming that it really started

463
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: to rise in seventy seven, When when did it peak,

464
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: even though I've heard Studio fifty four stories like in

465
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: eighty one, eighty two, eighty three, eighty four, like in

466
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: the half first half of the eighties, like when did

467
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: the allure of Studio fifty four died down?

468
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: And when did it become? Was it ever uncol to

469
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: go there?

470
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 4: Yes, it was uncool to go there after it closed

471
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 4: and then it reopened. I would say it peaked in

472
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 4: seventy nine. It burned fast and hard, and it's extinguished

473
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 4: pretty quickly, I think that. But you know, i'd say

474
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 4: by eighty you know.

475
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: Were you there?

476
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: Have you ever went there at its peak? When like

477
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, even she couldn't get in even though

478
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: they had like the number one song on the.

479
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 4: Charts, Like oh yeah no, I literally, you know, laughed

480
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 4: that I you know that I landed at Laguardi Airport

481
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 4: and proceeded straight to Studio fifty four. But it's not

482
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 4: it's an exaggeration, but literally I was like a homing pigeon.

483
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 4: I have to go to my spiritual home of Studio

484
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 4: fifty four. And you know, back then, so this is

485
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 4: in April of seventy eight, and back then, you know,

486
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: you had all the you know hand von Furstenberg and

487
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 4: Warhol and Liza and all these people, you know, is

488
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 4: razzle dazzle. But there was always this. They always let

489
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 4: in a group of young kids that if you were

490
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 4: dressed interestingly enough and added youthful flavor to the crowd,

491
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 4: you'd stand outside for a little while. And Mark Bennecky,

492
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 4: who was the doorman, who would stand on this perch

493
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: in a huge norma kmali red cocoon coat, would you know,

494
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 4: sort of look around and act like, you know, he'd

495
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 4: sauce out the crowd. I always had a strategy, though.

496
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: My strategy was to take the subway up to as

497
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: close as a possible to fifty four at eighth and

498
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 4: then take a cab from the corner to directly in

499
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: front of Studio fifty four, which could take anywhere from

500
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 4: thirty to forty five minutes because the street was already

501
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 4: always packed, right. The trick was that split second when

502
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 4: the cab door all opens. Mark Benecky is always looking

503
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 4: to see who's getting out of cars because it could

504
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 4: be Truman, Capodi, you know, so, but he would at

505
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: least register you, so you know, I spend whatever seventy

506
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: five cents on the subway, another maybe four bucks just

507
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 4: going half a block and a taxi to make sure

508
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 4: to get in.

509
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: See, now Rogers should have learned that. Listen. Yes he

510
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: should also been white, but you know, oh.

511
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, well listen, there is there's no question about that.

512
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, it was not a democracy. It was

513
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 4: far from it. So yeah, seventy nine with the peak

514
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 4: seventy eight.

515
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: Maybe so once that peaks are you would you say

516
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: that Paradise Garage replaced it? Or then what was your

517
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: like what replaced Studio fifty four? As okay, that's not cool,

518
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: no more, let's go to this spot, you know what.

519
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 4: It wasn't an either or. I mean, there was a

520
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 4: lot of stuff going on simultaneously. There was a place

521
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: called Hurrahs that was very popular. There was a place

522
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 4: called the Continental Bath, I mean not the Continental Bands.

523
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 4: That's another place, the Continental Club. There was dance materia,

524
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: there was a mud club, there's a Cbgbi's was still

525
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 4: you know, it was very big still back then. And

526
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 4: then there was a course places like Xenon which was

527
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 4: sort of like the poor relation to Studio fifty four.

528
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 4: You know, if you couldn't get into Studio fifty four.

529
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 4: You would go to Xenon and then there was also

530
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: what's that sex club? Oh, what's a sex club that

531
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: everyone went to? That the Swingers Club. I forget the

532
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 4: name of it. It was very popular.

533
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: Hey, son, you know it's in my mind right now, Like, yeah, then.

534
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: You eluded him. This is why we have guests on

535
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: the show. I'm trying to you know.

536
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: I was going up there, but at this rate I

537
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: was doing Oldie. It was like, I didn't see this

538
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: part of New York.

539
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 4: Well, you know, amir, you certainly have Vinceletti's Disco Files book.

540
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I think the.

541
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 4: Disco Files Book is a really great lay of the land. Okay,

542
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 4: the clubs that were happening and when they were happening,

543
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: because it didn't just like jump from Studio fifty four

544
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 4: to say, Paradise Grash and Paradise Garage was such a

545
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 4: different There might have been some overlap, but it was

546
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: a very different vibe, very different crowd. I was not

547
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 4: a member of Paradise Crash. I did go there on

548
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 4: many occasions, but you had to it was had to

549
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 4: reach out to the guy. Was it Richard Brody I

550
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 4: think was the name of the guy that owned the

551
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 4: club and get on the guest list for the night

552
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 4: and all.

553
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: It was too hard to get it.

554
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 4: Okay, well you had to be a you know, as

555
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 4: a membership club.

556
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: Question before your record label days, were you seeing any

557
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: bands or artists like forming clubs or were you strictly

558
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: just like a club kid listening to DJs?

559
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 4: You know, I was actually more interested in the DJs,

560
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 4: to tell you, and I still am the I mean, yeah,

561
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 4: I see these shows and everything, but I didn't have

562
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: I never had the same fervor about seeing live concerts

563
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 4: except for Roxy Music and I'm a rough, total Roxy

564
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: music geek fan. Love Brian Ferry, like going back to

565
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 4: the mid seventies. But so that was Oh and I

566
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 4: was also loved to go see Bowie and LaBelle. LaBelle

567
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 4: was a definitely appointment, you know, that was like a

568
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 4: big deal to go to Labelle's shows back in the seventies.

569
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: But were you there for their infamous where I think

570
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: they did something at the Lincoln Center where everyone had

571
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: to wear something silver?

572
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, no, no, yes, that was the Chameleon Tour,

573
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 4: I believe, yes, with all the costumes that were by

574
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 4: Larry Lagaspi, the Lake Larry Lagaspi, who's being there's a

575
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 4: big book that Rick Owens is doing a tribute to

576
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: Larry Lagaspy. But this was in I believe seventy six,

577
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 4: because I think after the Chameleon tour they kind of

578
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: broke up, if I'm yeah, But I was in Chicago

579
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: and me and all my friends, I was hanging out

580
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 4: with this huge, gay, glamy crowd and we all dressed

581
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 4: as reptiles to go to the LaBelle concert. And I

582
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 4: dressed in this green sequined lizard outfit that I put together,

583
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: and actually and all my friends did. I still have

584
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 4: photos of it, and I was invited to go up

585
00:32:53,920 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 4: on stage and dance with Nonah and Sarah, and I

586
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: have the photos of it to I have the receipts.

587
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 4: But it was it was incredible. I mean this, this

588
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 4: is when the audience was really at one with the

589
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: LaBelle and you know, people felt that way too about

590
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: going to Bowie and Roxy music. Everyone wanted to dress

591
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 4: as glamorously as Brian Ferry, you know. So. But but

592
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 4: I'm not going to be that. I'm not that personally

593
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 4: to say, oh, yeah, I was at such and such

594
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: you know concert or anything like that.

595
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so for you, did you know an immediate sonic

596
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: difference when you were frequenting clubs that were more hip

597
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: hop based and and I mean way before there were

598
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: rap labels or even before your time at your tenure

599
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: at a Tommy Boy. Like if you're seeing like, do

600
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: you remember your first rap club experience pre your record

601
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: label days?

602
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 4: Hmmm, No, oh I don't, because I think I started.

603
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 4: I think probably the first club that I recall going

604
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 4: to was probably Negrill. So it's not like I was,

605
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 4: oh yeah, I was at Harlem World in seventy nine

606
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: and blah blah. No, it wasn't like that.

607
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: I was is this the Negrill that's on twenty third Street?

608
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 4: Negrill I think was down on like Second Avenue around

609
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 4: maybe fourth sixth Street. Lady Blue Freddy was very involved

610
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: in sort of helping, you know, coalesce the uptown downtown

611
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 4: scenes together. You know, Bam was djaying there and I

612
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 4: think I think rack Steady performed there. Is it was

613
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: like a small, sort of cramped basement space. It was

614
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 4: really you know, not.

615
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I get it now when people mentioned the Grill.

616
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: Of course, me being an entry in the nineties, I'm

617
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: thinking of the upscale Jamaican restaurant. Yeah, thinking that maybe

618
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: it was once a hip hop club like in the

619
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: eighties or whatever. But I'm realizing that I got fooled.

620
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: So can you tell me how you got pulled into

621
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: the record industry.

622
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 4: Well, I was waiting take I left my thriving career

623
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 4: at show World and people in and you know, I

624
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 4: made this, you know, incredibly brilliant determination that the people

625
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 4: who I was, you know, the people I was working with,

626
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: the people I was working for and the customers were

627
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 4: all pretty much a dead end. And I wasn't and

628
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 4: I wasn't getting any younger. So I started waiting tables,

629
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 4: ended up working graveyard at a place called the Empire Diner.

630
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 4: I was living in the Chelsea Hotel. So there's like

631
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 4: all the bona fides for like, yeah, she checks all

632
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 4: the boxers late seventies, early eighties. But because I had

633
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 4: always been such a music fan and I was always like,

634
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 4: what's that you're playing? What's that you're playing? You know,

635
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 4: but you know, I loved it, I decided to go

636
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 4: to this. I heard about something called the New Music Seminar,

637
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: and it was the first conference that Tom Silverman put

638
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 4: together with his two partners, Mark Josephson and I'm not

639
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 4: even sure Joel Weber was part of it at that point,

640
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 4: but it was in a small It was in recording

641
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 4: studio up in Yorkville. And this was probably nineteen eighty

642
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 4: or eighty one. So and I, you know, met Tom

643
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 4: at a pizza place during a break. I said, hey,

644
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 4: I'm Monica, you know, okay, whatever. And then a guy

645
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 4: named Bob Pittman was speaking at this conference and he started.

646
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 4: He announced that there was a new new thing that

647
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 4: they were about to launch called MTV, and I approached

648
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 4: him afterwards. I said, oh, man, this sounds great. I

649
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 4: would love to work for you. He you know, completely

650
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 4: ignored me. And about a year so I just kept

651
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 4: waiting tables. And then about a year later I saw

652
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 4: an ad for a guy, Gal Friday in the Village Voice.

653
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,479
Speaker 4: This is back when people where there were no there

654
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 4: was no LinkedIn.

655
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: Uh, you had to buy a Village Voice to get

656
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: a job.

657
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 4: You had to buy the Village Rights or the New

658
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 4: York Times, you know, and you on the Sunday New

659
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 4: York Times, you know, and go through all these little,

660
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 4: you know, mouse type listings, and I saw an ad

661
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 4: for a guy, Gal Friday for a dance music I

662
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 4: think it was a dance music publication slash record company.

663
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: I still have the ad. I still have it on

664
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, a little yellow piece of paper that I

665
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 4: cut out. I have it in an envelope. And I

666
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 4: called the number and it was tom and he didn't

667
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 4: remember me, but I remembered him, and he told me, yeah,

668
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 4: you know dance music. I have dance music report. I

669
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 4: just started this label called Tommy Boy. And you know

670
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 4: this would be to be like my right hand person.

671
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah, and there were At this point, I

672
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 4: was actually living in servants quarters up on Upper West Side.

673
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 4: I was bouncing around a lot of places.

674
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 2: That's always the top floor of a that's right. I

675
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: was second. I was second. I was seconds away from

676
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 2: buying a five story house in Harlem in the Heights

677
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: before after Hamilton. Then them prices really jacked up. It

678
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: was like Hamilton's Row and it looked as large as

679
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: like the Huxtables crib in Brooklyn. But you know, the

680
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: basement was tricked out. The first floor, then they had

681
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: the second, fourth, third, fourth, fourth floor, and then on

682
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: the fifth floor that's usually where the maid or the nanny.

683
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: You know, these houses are also hundreds of years old. You

684
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: imagine that's where Yeah, the help, So that kept your legs,

685
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 2: That at least kept your legs in shafe because you'd

686
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: have to go up five flights of stairs.

687
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 4: Yes, for these tiny little rooms. It wasn't you know,

688
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 4: shared bathrooms.

689
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 6: Whatever.

690
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 4: It was fine. It was like maybe fifty seventy five

691
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 4: bucks a week or something. But I had these numerous

692
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 4: phone calls with Tom trying to convince some way he

693
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 4: should hire me because I didn't have a college education.

694
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: He did. He's like, well where you know, what have

695
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 4: you done before? And like, well, you know, I worked

696
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: at peep Land and this was you know, you know,

697
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 4: And he wasn't thoroughly convinced. But then once he said, well, okay, listen, tomorrow,

698
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 4: I'm going out to pick up the twelve inches of

699
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 4: the new Tommy Boy release and you can come. You

700
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 4: can ride along with me. So I'm like, okay, cool,

701
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 4: this is my shot. And so I meet up with him.

702
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 4: He lives in this uh, two bedroom apartment over in Yorkville,

703
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 4: Let's face it, the heart of exactly the Upper East Side.

704
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 4: On the fire, he said you know where the mayor's home.

705
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: Is, where York Street starts, Yes.

706
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 4: York Avenue, right exactly. It's you know. So we drive

707
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 4: out to Long Island City and his hatchback. I don't

708
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 4: know if that's a thing, if they even make hatchbacks anymore,

709
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: but it was. We drove out there in his hatchback

710
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 4: to this uh pressing plant called Apexton, and it was

711
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 4: owned by these two Polish brothers. And so what they

712
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: do is, when you know, when Tom had ordered a

713
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 4: pressing if I don't know, a thousand or whatever of

714
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 4: this record, they wheel them out to the curb in

715
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 4: fifty count boxes, and you know, Tom opens up the

716
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 4: back of the hatchback and I started slinging in these

717
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 4: fifty count boxes. And I'm a girl from Chicago. Man,

718
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm a big girl from Chicago. I have

719
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 4: no problem lifting up heavy shit and slinging it. So

720
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 4: he was like, oh, she got some muscle on her,

721
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 4: all right, you got the job. So that's how I started.

722
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 4: But I had to keep waiting on tables when I

723
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 4: started because I couldn't afford you know, the pay wasn't

724
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 4: a whole lot. So I was working tables at night

725
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 4: and working for tom.

726
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: During the day. Was this is this after Planet Rock

727
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: or like what years? No? No?

728
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 4: Before December of eighty one, I was the first employee.

729
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 3: Your memory is incredible, Monica inch, I can't even your memories.

730
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: I believed. I love this. This tells me that you

731
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: didn't do much drugs in the eighties, because.

732
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 4: Oh no, that's not true.

733
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: Do you take me never mind? Usually our guests are like,

734
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: hey man, I don't remember selective member. What you know

735
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: it is?

736
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 4: You have selective memory about certain things. If you asked

737
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 4: me other things, I say, I can't remember. But this

738
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 4: stuff I do remember.

739
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: Was this the jazzy j like funky Sensation era of yes?

740
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: Okay, in fact, it was.

741
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 4: That's right, That's what it was like exactly. That was

742
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 4: when I started in December of nineteen eighty one. Tommy

743
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 4: actually about a week after I started, went away for

744
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: a couple of weeks to Jamaica for an extended vacation

745
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: with his girlfriend, and Jazzy Sensation had just come out, right,

746
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 4: and so you know, my duties were split between Tommy Boy,

747
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 4: this fledgling label, Tommy Boy, and Dance Music Report, which

748
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 4: was which was a disco DJ tip sheet, which I

749
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 4: don't know if you remember that, but it was an

750
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 4: important publication in its time. So he went on vacation

751
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 4: and left me with, you know, my sort of semi

752
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: defined duties, and one of them was, you know, to

753
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 4: make sure to you know, take the orders for Jesz Sensation,

754
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 4: and you know, make sure the pressing plant has got

755
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 4: the records going and all this other stuff. Well, sure enough,

756
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 4: I took an order from a one stop. I don't

757
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 4: know if you know what a one stop is. Yes,

758
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 4: there's a sub category of an independent distributor. And it

759
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 4: was an account that we didn't weren't open with, and

760
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 4: so I took an order and then come to find

761
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 4: out that it was some guy who was a gonif

762
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 4: and wasn't going to be paying us. And Tom totally

763
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 4: liked reamed me about that.

764
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: But when you say you mean like some friends of ours.

765
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 4: Some friends of ours, well, I just bought a hardcover

766
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 4: copy of The Joys of Yiddish for a friend of

767
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 4: mine today. Because when you say because I said, I

768
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 4: said to her, I said, oh, you know this person, bubbah,

769
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 4: they're great, but they have no rookmonnas. And she said,

770
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 4: what's rock Munas. I'm like, you've never worked in the

771
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 4: music industry. You don't know what Ghani or Rochmunnis is

772
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 4: or you know, oh yeah, so yeah, I mean it

773
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 4: basically meant the guy wasn't who serve of a thief,

774
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 4: wasn't planning on paying us.

775
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: In my mind, the difference between Tommy Boy and well,

776
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: I'm saying the hip hop labels that came before it,

777
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: because really we're talking sugar Hill is what I feel

778
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: is notable about those two labels is that you know,

779
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: with enjoy in sugar Hill, I definitely know that, you know,

780
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 2: Mars Levy had his hands or quote Mars Levy types

781
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 2: more gangster run era of the music industry.

782
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 1: How is one able to start.

783
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: A label, an independent label in the early eighties without

784
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: someone trying to muscle you for a piece? Now, even

785
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: though okay, so Jazz's instation wasn't exactly Planet Rock, but

786
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: for our listeners that are are peep in Jesse Sensation

787
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 2: is a hip hop rendition of gwymccree's sort of timeless

788
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: Can you feel it?

789
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: Can you feel it? Our sensation or jazz sensation?

790
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 4: Yeah?

791
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 1: Right? So, like, are you aware of the strong arm of.

792
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: The connective folks that sugar Hill and Enjoy Records definitely were.

793
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 4: Uh, you know, that's a good question. Sugar Hill was

794
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 4: definitely you know, Joe and Sylvia. And there was a

795
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 4: guy named Maldon who was sort of the other co

796
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 4: founder of Sugarte Michael No, no, not Michael moll. I

797
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 4: was like, okay, now this guy was Yugoslavian. He was

798
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 4: sort of put in thereby Morris Levy to you know,

799
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 4: make sure the money situation was whatever it was going

800
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 4: to be. And uh, but but I would say that

801
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 4: there it was a very much a entrepreneurial cottage industry

802
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 4: at that point, you know. And I think Enjoy Records

803
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 4: Bobby Robinson's label is more in that vein. But you

804
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 4: what you also had. And I just have to give

805
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 4: a shout out to Corey Robbins because Corey, yes, co

806
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 4: founder of Profile Records. Corey actually came to the office

807
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 4: when Tom was away and he just knocked down the

808
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 4: door and said, hey, I'm Corey. You know I have

809
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 4: Profile Records. If any if you need anything, if anything

810
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 4: goes wrong, you have any questions, please feel free to

811
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 4: get in touch with me. And it's like, wow, thank you,

812
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 4: I appreciate it because I didn't have a lot of questions.

813
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 4: But there was this There were labels that were really

814
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 4: the the you know dance, the post disco dance labels

815
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 4: like west End and Prelude. Who there. It wasn't so

816
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 4: much about some sort of cultural bubbling up. It was

817
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 4: more about what was selling. Okay, cell Cell's over or

818
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 4: peaked or whatever. So maybe it's you know, Tanya Gardner

819
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 4: or you know something right exactly things that are bubbling

820
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 4: up that are more from the street and including hip hop,

821
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 4: but it was more of a commercial imperative, I think,

822
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 4: than an artistic decision or a cultural reflection so much.

823
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: And I think the same thing is absolutely true with

824
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 4: sugar Hill and Enjoy. I mean, you've got you know,

825
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 4: Bobby Robinson and Joe and Sylvia. I mean look at

826
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 4: their histories with the labels that they had, so I

827
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 4: think that they were all these were independent labels owned

828
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 4: by people who were looking around the landscape and saying

829
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: where can I make money next?

830
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 2: Okay, so if you're doing jazzy Sensation, assuming that you

831
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: were there for its very first order, how many pieces

832
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: are you ordering and how many like just walk me

833
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: through how does one spread it? So how many go

834
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 2: to DJs so they can get played? Are you hoping

835
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 2: that Frankie Crocker plays it so that it might go national?

836
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 2: And then if it does well? In other words, the

837
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: problem that was presented in Crust Groove, which I forget

838
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 2: what single it was like they had a single so

839
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: successful that they didn't have enough money to print it.

840
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, then yes, yeah, the worst thing that could happen

841
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 4: to you is a hit like the producers.

842
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so let's even though I want you to lead

843
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: up to Planet Rock, I'm certain that that was a

844
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: problem for you guys, because that was a worldwide smash.

845
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: So how do you operate and service the world? And

846
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 2: how do you know what the world wants? How do

847
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: you know what a local record store in Germany wants?

848
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: How do you know if Doctor Dre or Uncle Jam

849
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: is playing it in la Like?

850
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: How how do you spread the word?

851
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: Like who's the person that you're trying to get this

852
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: record to hoping that it will become a thing.

853
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 4: Well, listen, back then, it was a very small network.

854
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 4: And when Jazz Sensation was out, I mean I always

855
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 4: tell people, you know, Jazz Sensation really was what I

856
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 4: would call a regional record It was popular in the

857
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 4: mid Atlantic area. Tommy Boyce certainly didn't have the we

858
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 4: had not set up sort of a national network, which

859
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 4: may or may not have even been you know, might

860
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 4: have made a difference, I don't know. But the thing

861
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 4: is is that back then there was such a small

862
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 4: number of people to even go to. You know, we

863
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 4: were dealing directly with Magic when he was still on

864
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 4: HBI Wow, you know, Islam Head, Zulu Beats, Supreme Team,

865
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 4: there was I mean, this is before Red was on Kiss.

866
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 4: I mean there was you know, a a lot of

867
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 4: this was through club DJs and to some degree these

868
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 4: sort of specialty mix shows that were starting to merge,

869
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 4: some of them on college, college and university stations. But

870
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 4: at that point, I know you were talking nineteen eighty two,

871
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 4: it was it's a short window really between Jazzy Sensation

872
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 4: and Planet Rock. As Planet Rock came out, I think

873
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 4: it was April of eighty two, so it's a really

874
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 4: big difference. So you had the independent record stores who

875
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 4: by the way, you know, I have had a recent

876
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 4: conversation with someone about this that if there was ever

877
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 4: a documentary that someone was going to consider doing. I

878
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 4: think the history of independent record stores, Black independent record

879
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 4: stores and their role in hip hop and dance music

880
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 4: as an untold story, But I would say the record

881
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 4: stores played a big role in spreading the word and

882
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 4: play the records. The club DJs were more important at

883
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 4: that point servicing record pools. I mean, I still have.

884
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: About record pools.

885
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 4: Yes, I still have lists of the record pools and

886
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 4: the record pool directors and we would keep a running,

887
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 4: you know, running list of how many members do you

888
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 4: have and who do you service and blah blah blah,

889
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 4: So how.

890
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,479
Speaker 2: Many counts do you have to service? How many counts

891
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 2: do you have to service for a record pool?

892
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 4: You know, some of these record pools might have like

893
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 4: the Shore record pool that was run by a guy

894
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 4: named Bobby Davis up in the Bronx. He'd say, oh,

895
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 4: you know, one hundred and fifty members, two hundred members,

896
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 4: or you know, you'd have maybe a Rickets Records out

897
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 4: in New Jersey and they might have seventy five members,

898
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 4: or some record pool out on Long Island or you know,

899
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 4: whatever it was. But you know the thing with the

900
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,439
Speaker 4: record pool directors is that they sort of were had more,

901
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 4: uh more power than that they did in the in

902
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 4: the years to come, and then well you have to

903
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 4: give us full service or nothing, even though.

904
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: I know it's about to happen.

905
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of their members would never touch a wrap.

906
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: Record, okay, so they would just sell it.

907
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 4: So they would sell it or you know, or it

908
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 4: would just be like, you know, go into the uh

909
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 4: you know, the vinyl dump or whatever. But it was

910
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 4: you know, so.

911
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 2: Is that why sometimes when I get records then they

912
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 2: have that little uh cut open hole on the top

913
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 2: left corner. Is that to differentiate a promotional record?

914
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? I always wanted to know what that was for.

915
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's yeah, they were.

916
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: They were notched a punch hole.

917
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 4: Okay, like a neutered cat, you know. You know, it's

918
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 4: a promo, you know, but that didn't necessarily prevent something

919
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 4: being resold. But you know, it only would resell if

920
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 4: it was a hit. Who fucking cares if it's not

921
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 4: a hit record, you know out so you know anyway,

922
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 4: but it was a small world, you know in New York.

923
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,959
Speaker 4: Uh you know, yeah, you'd want to make sure Chef

924
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 4: Petty Bone or Sergio Munzubai or the Latin Rascals on

925
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 4: w k T you or DJ Jose Animal Diaz. You know,

926
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 4: you had Carlos DeJesus on w K t U Rest

927
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 4: in Peace. You had Barry Mayo and Tony Humphries over

928
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 4: Kiss Wow. Barry Mayo still friend, really fantastic guy.

929
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: Very all these guys were DJs first before I got

930
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 2: to know them as remixers and editors, because you're mentioning

931
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: Tony Humphries and the Latin Rascals and they were actual

932
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: DJs first before.

933
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Tony, Yeah. And Chef Pettybone was very important

934
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 4: the master mix on Kiss FM, you know so, and yeah,

935
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 4: of course Frankie. He was always at the top of

936
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 4: the you know, top of the food chain, you know,

937
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,240
Speaker 4: like if you could get Frankie to play a record,

938
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 4: you know. And Frankie was someone who I mean I

939
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 4: knew him and counted him as a friend, as many did.

940
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 4: But uh, and he was always very interested in what

941
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 4: was coming up from the street. You see all these

942
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 4: photos of him hanging in the booth at Paradise Garage

943
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 4: or whatever. He didn't want to be left behind on

944
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 4: any of this stuff.

945
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 2: But it was, uh, you know, one of the original

946
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: human shizan looking over his shoulders trying to copy what

947
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 2: was he wanted.

948
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 4: He was very savvy about knowing what was coming up.

949
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 4: He that was he had to do that, and he

950
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 4: did it so successfully for so many years. But you know,

951
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 4: Frankie was Frankie and he was very uh, you know,

952
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 4: you had to deal with Frankie like, you know, he

953
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 4: was royalty. He was radio royalty. You know.

954
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 2: So in order to are you allowed to speak of

955
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: the methods of how you were able to get a

956
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: record played? I would like to think, I mean, I

957
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 2: would like to think that a song like Planet Rock

958
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: was so futuristic that DJs would naturally be like ya,

959
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 2: I gotta play this shit. But for an album like that,

960
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:24,959
Speaker 2: did you have to ensure ways? Like how were rap

961
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: records broken in markets that were unpenatable but you managed

962
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: to get them on anyway?

963
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 4: Well, that's that's another good question. The answer is, yes,

964
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 4: we had to take care of business. And I want

965
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 4: to mention, by the way, since Philly looms so large here,

966
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 4: that there was a really great remembrance of a guy

967
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 4: named Snooky Jones in Philadelphia who passed away recently. He

968
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 4: was a record promoter and there was a there was

969
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 4: a great remembrance of the scene in the WDAS parking

970
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 4: lot where Butterball tamp Buro of course reins Supreme, and

971
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 4: how all the promo guys would pull up on I

972
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 4: forget what record day was there. I don't know what

973
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,919
Speaker 4: record day was. H let's say it was Monday, doesn't matter.

974
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 4: They you know, they all be there in the parking lot,

975
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 4: jammed up waiting for butter to you know, a light

976
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 4: from his car and get at him about whatever their

977
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 4: releases were. But the answer, the short answer is yes,

978
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 4: it doesn't listen. If it was a hit, you definitely

979
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 4: had to pay, and if it wasn't a hit, you

980
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 4: could waste a lot of money. But and people were

981
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 4: happy to take your money. But that doesn't mean you're

982
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 4: going to get any airplay.

983
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: So what turned out?

984
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: You mean, if it was a hit, as in, if

985
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: it sounded good and you felt it deserved to be

986
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 2: on the radio, then you determined this is going to

987
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: be a hit.

988
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, there's there's there's things that deserve a lot

989
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 4: of things, but there's but you still had to pay

990
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 4: to play if you want to. There's one thing to

991
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: get play on a mixed show, or even play or

992
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 4: as they used to say Daytime, you know, like fact,

993
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 4: it was like yeah, but you didn't get Daytime, you know,

994
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 4: But if you wanted that official ad that's getting reported

995
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 4: to Billboard and R and R and whatever the other

996
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 4: bibles were at that point, you had to take care

997
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 4: of business, and we did.

998
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: How Nightmares was the Planet Right experience.

999
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:26,959
Speaker 4: Well, I would say.

1000
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: It was less in terms of demand. In terms of demand, well,

1001
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: it was.

1002
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 4: An immediate hit, and it was something that you know,

1003
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 4: of course we weren't necessarily prepared for, but you do

1004
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 4: everything you can. And what we would do is essentially

1005
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:51,959
Speaker 4: get try and get advance payments from distributors in exchange

1006
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 4: for a discounted rate on the units, you know what

1007
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 4: I'm saying. So somebody said, yeah, we'll pay you whatever,

1008
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 4: say twenty five thousand dollars or you know whatever. You know,

1009
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 4: if we pay you up front, can you give us

1010
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 4: this many units at this price as opposed to what

1011
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 4: the regular price was. So those are the type of

1012
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 4: things we had to do to make sure that we

1013
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 4: kept the pressing plant. You know, we were able to

1014
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 4: pay for the pressing and all the other you know, jackets, labels,

1015
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 4: all the other stuff, shipping, you know, all that stuff.

1016
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully by this point, you guys ramped up to

1017
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: more than just a two person operation, correct.

1018
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that record allowed Tommy Boy to ramp up

1019
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 4: to more than a two person operation. You know, it

1020
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 4: literally exploded. It created opportunities and marketplaces that we didn't

1021
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 4: have at that point because it was because this record

1022
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 4: did go national and it went global, and it was

1023
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 4: the type of record. It's been recounted many times, of course,

1024
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 4: but it was the type of record that really traveled exceptionally. Well, well,

1025
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,439
Speaker 4: it was a car record, you know, had that percolating

1026
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 4: melodic sound so automatically you know, California, Florida, Texas, Detroit, Detroit,

1027
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 4: you know, all these places that were not necessarily hip

1028
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 4: hop markets yet that really cracked the code. You know

1029
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 4: in a lot of those places that electro sound. Tommy

1030
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 4: Boys early days, the first wave of success that Tommy

1031
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 4: Boy had was definitely with electro records. It was the

1032
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 4: Arthur Baker John Roby productions with So Soonic Force, Planet Patrol,

1033
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 4: and then of course we got Johnson Crew with Michael

1034
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 4: Johnson and you know, uh, there were that had some

1035
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 4: like Space Pelic was huge, like in Houston, that.

1036
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: Was big in LA.

1037
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: When I visited family in Pasadena and summer of eighty three,

1038
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: they were only playing the Space Cowboy and it was like,

1039
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: that's when I realized things were regional because I never

1040
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 2: heard of Space Game.

1041
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 4: It wasn't an East Coast record.

1042
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: Well, I knew about Pac Jam, but I definitely didn't

1043
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 2: know about Space Cowboy.

1044
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 4: That's right. That's right, that's right. Because we were like, well,

1045
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 4: why is it big in Houston? And it was like, oh,

1046
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 4: because there's like a big I guess Nasaurs, you know,

1047
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 4: whatever was going on down there. There's a huge space

1048
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 4: thing in Houston. Oh okay, So there was so yeah,

1049
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 4: and some of these things were like that slower sound

1050
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 4: was sort of also, you know, like in the South

1051
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 4: and some places there were just these different vibes and

1052
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 4: cultural geographical differences that you know, you could see with

1053
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 4: some the records. But we had also Globe and whiz

1054
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 4: Kid play that beat, and you know, and with the

1055
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 4: Double Dance Ninsky remix. And I'm probably overlooking some things,

1056
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 4: but there was there was this brief window between say

1057
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 4: late eighty one into maybe eighty four where we had

1058
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 4: this really dominant electro sound and then I think once

1059
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 4: I heard, you know, it's like, oh shit. As soon

1060
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 4: as I heard deaf you know, run DMC, I'm like, okay,

1061
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 4: sea change. And you know Keith LeBlanc, who I'm sure

1062
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 4: you know who he is because it's a fellow drummer.

1063
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 4: You know. He told me a story recently about how

1064
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 4: as part of the sugar Hill Band he remembered traveling

1065
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 4: with sugar Hill Gang and you know, working in the

1066
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 4: studio there on all these records and all this stuff,

1067
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 4: and he said, yeah, you know, I remember one day

1068
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 4: waking up and hearing Planet Rock and saying, I think

1069
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 4: there's a sea change going on here, guys.

1070
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 2: Oh because theyd Scorpio that's right, yup, that's right, you

1071
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 2: grandmassive flats and the few yars five did well?

1072
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: Really Keith a plank and.

1073
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 2: Uh uh skip Yeah yeah, Doug, Doug wim bust and

1074
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: skip did scorpio?

1075
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: I get it?

1076
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. So from the live thing into like this electro

1077
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 4: thing was a different thing. Yeah.

1078
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously you maintained the trust of Tom. Did

1079
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 2: you get immediately Helm president or were you head of

1080
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 2: A and R first, or I mean was the position

1081
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 2: real or it was this a title for paper only?

1082
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 4: Look I work my fucking ass off. I did a

1083
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 4: lot of different.

1084
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 2: Things right, And no, no, no, I don't mean in

1085
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 2: a dismissive way, but I mean, like, you guys have

1086
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 2: a real office in a receptionists and oh I.

1087
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 4: Know, well, you know, back then it was like it

1088
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 4: was all these all the labels were just scrappy operations.

1089
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 4: I mean, we didn't have like any fanciness or nothing. Really.

1090
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 4: I tell you, we worked in the second bedroom out

1091
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 4: of Tom's apartment, and then we moved into two different

1092
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 4: basement offices and your and then we moved in above

1093
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 4: the soccer store on First Day Avenue in New Yorkville

1094
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 4: and sort of built it out there, but it was

1095
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 4: never fancy.

1096
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 2: Four some D's made their entry in eighty five, and

1097
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 2: four some D's, I think at the time was way

1098
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 2: different than what you guys were normally associated with. And

1099
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 2: I know Tom's love and history of old school do

1100
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: wop music and you know, so basically, you know what boys,

1101
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 2: the men really pulled off successfully in ninety one. I

1102
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: mean four some D's was that in terms of the.

1103
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 4: Blueprint for that. You know. The thing is is that

1104
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 4: the four m D's came to us actually through mister Magic.

1105
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 4: The four some D's had been on the scene for

1106
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 4: some time, which I didn't even realize at.

1107
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: That as the four Cs.

1108
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, as a four MCS and Tom loved do wop

1109
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 4: and he starts saw this hip hop do wop group

1110
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 4: in the four MDS. And the woman who was his

1111
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 4: first wife, her name was Robin Halpin and she's very

1112
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 4: very talented jazz musician and she actually uh co wrote

1113
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 4: and produced a lot of those early four MDS records.

1114
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 4: You know, let Me Love Kitchen for a scratch, you know,

1115
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 4: let's not forget they were in that first movie, was

1116
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 4: it Happin? Yeah, they did the record with the Fat Boys. Yeah, uh,

1117
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 4: here I go again, all these really beautiful records. But

1118
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 4: they were the thing with the four m DS. They

1119
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 4: were always pitted against New Edition, and New Edition was

1120
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 4: the group at that point that had the more of

1121
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 4: the female audience that was really sort of going crazy

1122
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 4: for them. But it was always the four m DS

1123
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 4: and New Edition that were sort of going head to

1124
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 4: head in that early sort of boy group uh vocal

1125
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 4: hip hop you know ar you know, R and B thing.

1126
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 4: But the thing, the big turning point for or the

1127
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 4: four MDS and This is a story that I was

1128
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 4: very involved with. Was when Crush Groove was being made.

1129
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 4: One of the producers was my boyfriend at the time.

1130
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 4: His name is Doug McHenry n.

1131
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, oh word.

1132
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 4: Okay, Yes, and Dog, and I was staying with Dog

1133
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 4: at the Mayflower Hotel while they were doing the film,

1134
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 4: him and his late partner George Jackson.

1135
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 2: George Jackson, George Wait, slight, wait, I can I insert

1136
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 2: one story only mere style.

1137
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: You remember the.

1138
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 2: Boom, the internet boom of the early aughts, when everyone

1139
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 2: thought the Internet was going to be like this gold

1140
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 2: mine of a thing, same way that bitcoin is now.

1141
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 2: And we struck a deal to sell Okay player in Yeah,

1142
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, and I believe we broke her to

1143
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: deal with George Jackson and the way that I was

1144
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: metaphorically burning cigars with one hundred dollar bills like all

1145
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 2: of y'all kiss my ass like I'm about to do

1146
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 2: rich rich rich and Monday. Richard calls me and says,

1147
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: deals off. I'm like, what happened? And He's like, George

1148
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 2: Jackson died anyway, I'm sorry Yes with George Jackson.

1149
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 4: Interjection is obviously the art of the of the game here.

1150
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 4: So but anyway, so I was so, I thought, you know,

1151
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 4: here I am, I'm with Doug. I'm dating Doug. It's like,

1152
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 4: you know. And he's like telling me, Yeah, we're doing

1153
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 4: the soundtrack on Warner Brothers for Crush Coove and blah

1154
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 4: blah blah. And I'm like, awesome, let me get a

1155
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 4: slot on there for the four c mgs. You know,

1156
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 4: he says, you know. But New Addition like, ah, sorry,

1157
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 4: you know, you're everything. So I'm like, so, I'm like, really.

1158
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: My secret. They did my secret in the movie.

1159
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 4: It was so but here's what happens. So the Crush

1160
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 4: Groove sound track, the movie's getting wrapped up the soundtrack

1161
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 4: because you know, lead times were crazy back then. They

1162
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 4: had to master the soundtrack all this. The deadlines were crazy.

1163
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 4: And then I get this call from Doug and he's like,

1164
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 4: there was supposed to be this big ballad slot on

1165
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 4: the album and it was dedicated to New Edition and

1166
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 4: Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis. When they produced this song

1167
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 4: with New Edition, I'm like, fucking man. And then he

1168
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 4: calls me, he goes, you're not going to believe it.

1169
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 4: New Adition had to pull out because some sort of

1170
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 4: crazy legal issues. They had a lot of problems back

1171
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 4: then New Edition with their management and lawsuits. All this

1172
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 4: shit was going on. So he goes, can you get

1173
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 4: Force mds up to Minneapolis tomorrow? And I'm like, yeah,

1174
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 4: what do we gonna do? You know, bla blah blah

1175
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 4: blah blah. Of course it was not exactly the next day,

1176
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 4: but it was within a matter of two or three days,

1177
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 4: and it was like involved calls with Ron Sweeney and

1178
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 4: Jimmy and Terry and all this other stuff, And of

1179
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 4: course the Force mds in there and the father who

1180
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 4: is a manager of Bob Lundi. They get up there,

1181
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 4: they record this record called Tender Love, and it goes

1182
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 4: on the soundtrack at the very last minute, and guess what.

1183
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 4: It's the first top ten pop hit for Jimmy and

1184
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 4: Terry and it was the big lead. It was the

1185
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 4: big smash hit of the album. And it was through

1186
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 4: that that Warner Brothers got interested in doing a deal

1187
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 4: with Tommy Boy.

1188
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: At this place.

1189
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 2: Are you shocked that, even though you know, Sylvia Robinson

1190
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 2: was running sugar Able Records or whatnot, were women in

1191
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: executive positions.

1192
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: Really not a thing?

1193
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 2: And I'm taking it out of hip hop just general

1194
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 2: at labels, Like I know about Sylvia Ron at least her,

1195
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 2: you know, coming up at Atlantic and starting East West,

1196
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 2: and maybe I mean was more.

1197
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 4: At Casablanca before then?

1198
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 2: Well okay, well I knew about Neil Bookgart, but who

1199
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 2: was running who was at Casablanca?

1200
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 4: Well, I believe Sylvia had started that.

1201
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: I did not know. Oh wow, all right, we give

1202
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: fact check it.

1203
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 4: This is a great, great subject matter, and I'm really

1204
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 4: happy you brought this up because you know, there's a

1205
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 4: lot of women from that early eighties period who didn't

1206
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 4: necessarily get their shine or necessarily get titles. I was.

1207
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 4: I think I was made president in eighty five. I

1208
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 4: still have the press release. And why do I have

1209
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:39,600
Speaker 4: it because I had to write it.

1210
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 1: The It's like writing your own Wikipedia entry.

1211
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, like, yeah, your president. Now, could you go write

1212
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 4: this up? Yes, okay, fine, so, but yeah, before in

1213
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 4: that early eighties period, I would say that the people

1214
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 4: that really come to my mind is like women who

1215
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 4: were doing a lot in the early hip hop labels

1216
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 4: would be Ann Carly at Jive Records. You know who.

1217
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 4: I actually knew Anne when she was working in the

1218
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 4: New York Office of e G Records. I used to

1219
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 4: harass her for rocks and music tour tickets and that.

1220
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 7: Uh.

1221
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:20,639
Speaker 4: There was Jeanine Leclair who was at Next Plateau Records

1222
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 4: that worked with Eddie o'lachlin. There was d D. Joseph

1223
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 4: who worked with at Prism Records, which became you know,

1224
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 4: which began Jill. Of course, there was Sylvia and there

1225
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 4: were others. And I'm really sorry because I should have

1226
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 4: prepared a list for this because it is important and

1227
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 4: there's a lot of people who you know, it was

1228
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 4: a bit later in the eighties when there were more

1229
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 4: women who were getting into the business, but there were

1230
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:55,679
Speaker 4: a lot of women who were in the business then

1231
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 4: and they just didn't necessarily get as much recognition. They

1232
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 4: might have started as eceptionist and became press or promo.

1233
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 4: So there's there's this whole wave of women that were

1234
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,480
Speaker 4: part of the even like late seventies and early eighties,

1235
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 4: whose whose names just don't tend to come up as much.

1236
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 4: So much in hip hop has been told and told

1237
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 4: again through books and documentaries and everything, but there's still

1238
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 4: a lot of terrain that hasn't been touched really, So.

1239
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: What's the difficulty level of you, like really as far

1240
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 2: as like pounding the desk and demanding that respect, like

1241
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 2: do you have to be tough as nails?

1242
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: It was what's old girl from uh who ran book?

1243
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: And uh winter? Right?

1244
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 2: And when we have to come do you have to

1245
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 2: run it in a winter style? And you know, no, no,

1246
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 2: well I don't.

1247
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know what you're saying. I know what

1248
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 4: you're saying. You know. I get asked a lot over

1249
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,879
Speaker 4: the years people said, well, what was it like being

1250
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 4: a woman in the hip hop world? Or what was

1251
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 4: it like being a white woman in the hip hop world?

1252
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 4: And I'm like, my response is usually like, you know what,

1253
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 4: there were so many opportunities for women in the fledgling

1254
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 4: hip hop industry. Again, it was so small back then.

1255
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 4: If I had gone to say, oh, you know Columbia

1256
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 4: Records or Mercury or PolyGram or whatever Warner Brothers, you know,

1257
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 4: and said, hey, you know, I'm looking for a job,

1258
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 4: I would have been lucky to get, you know, be

1259
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 4: the coffee runner for some guy doing mid Atlantic radio promotion. Okay,

1260
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 4: so in hip hop because it was just a small

1261
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 4: little industry and no one was really checking, you know,

1262
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 4: like a lot of women were able to sort of

1263
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 4: get ahead in this business because there wasn't like a precedent.

1264
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 4: It wasn't an old boys network, you know. So it

1265
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 4: was still being It was still being the story was

1266
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 4: being written, and you know, there was a lot of

1267
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 4: of opportunities. Although I will say when I went to

1268
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 4: the first Jack the Rapper Convention, a lot of people

1269
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 4: thought I was hired help for another reason. So, you know,

1270
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,560
Speaker 4: the Rapper Convention. That's another documentary.

1271
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:18,959
Speaker 3: Somebody should too, Ah boy tails from the Rap Convention.

1272
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: So okay, when when? Okay?

1273
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:28,600
Speaker 2: So in eighty six, when Club Nouveau starts hitting, you know,

1274
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 2: lean on me and jealousy and all that stuff was

1275
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 2: highly it was unescapable. Like by that point, you guys

1276
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 2: are just you know, a force. Was there ever a

1277
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 2: temptation to say leave Tommy Boy? And maybe and I

1278
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:47,719
Speaker 2: don't want to discredit hip hop's you know force or whatnot,

1279
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 2: but in the mind state of eighty seven, did you

1280
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 2: ever have the temptation or did someone from RCA or

1281
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers or quote a legit major label try to

1282
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 2: hold you away and say come work for us.

1283
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a label A and M actually and

1284
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 4: and a and M was a real class operation, you know,

1285
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 4: it was. I mean, there was like and they even

1286
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 4: bought me a plane ticket and put me in a hotel.

1287
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, you know, this is

1288
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 4: pretty great, but it didn't happen. I really sort of

1289
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 4: sense that I was better where it was, and it

1290
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 4: turned out to be true, you know, because it was

1291
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 4: towards you know, it was made president I guess eighty five,

1292
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 4: eighty six, I can't remember exactly, but you know, it

1293
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 4: was towards the end, you know, towards the late eighties

1294
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 4: where I really oversaw A and R and the creative

1295
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 4: direction for the label. I was already doing quite a

1296
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 4: bit already in both of those areas. And and also

1297
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 4: you know, in the early days, whether it was collecting

1298
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 4: money from distributors, or putting in pressers with the pressing plant,

1299
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 4: or getting the label copy typed off, or sitting with

1300
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 4: Bambada while he wrote out of special thanks, or creating

1301
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 4: a press list and writing press releases, talking to you

1302
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 4: name it. It's like you got to do a lot of

1303
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 4: different things. But it was, you know, in the late

1304
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 4: eighties where I sort of really I think that was

1305
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 4: a really golden era for Tommy Boy in the late

1306
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 4: eighties and the early nineties.

1307
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:29,679
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty eight, you know, for me, at least

1308
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 2: in my life, one of the greatest paradigm shifts that

1309
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 2: really affected. I mean, eighty eight was such a banner year.

1310
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 2: But you sign a group that literally changes the course.

1311
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 1: Of my life.

1312
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:47,879
Speaker 2: And we've had various people involved with day Las Soul projects,

1313
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 2: so we you know, you don't have to go through

1314
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 2: the every day. But what I do want to know

1315
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 2: is who was responsible for the genius marketing of day

1316
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: La Soul Because from the from the press photos to

1317
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 2: the fonts to the stickers. You know, for only time

1318
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:08,679
Speaker 2: on life I ever got sent to the principal's office

1319
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 2: was because I put day Lost Soul stickers all over

1320
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 2: my high school.

1321
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: Like, so, who was responsible?

1322
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 2: Like what was the brainchild operation of we could make

1323
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 2: these guys bigger than hip hop?

1324
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: And I read that hip hop for hippies. Wasn't that

1325
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: your ship?

1326
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I was very involved in all of that,

1327
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 4: but it was also there's a lot of people at

1328
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:38,799
Speaker 4: Tommy Boy that I would credit for being a huge

1329
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 4: part of this campaign. I think that it was a

1330
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 4: very critical decision to have the Gray Organization, do the

1331
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,880
Speaker 4: all the you know, all of the daisy, the imagery

1332
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 4: for the for the album cover. That was so that

1333
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 4: was I would say such a radical move at that

1334
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 4: point because they basically sort of threw down a gauntlet

1335
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 4: to what the prevailing visual aesthetic was of hip hop.

1336
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 4: And I think it was the type of thing that

1337
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 4: a lot of people were like, what is this? But

1338
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 4: you know, but the thing is before the album, before

1339
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 4: the album, and you saw all those visuals, you know,

1340
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 4: plug TuneIn was a radical record. And I still have

1341
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 4: I still have the demo tape and I still have

1342
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,879
Speaker 4: the write up that I did after my meeting with Daddyo,

1343
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 4: And I want to make sure to credit Daddyo because

1344
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 4: it was Daddyo from Stetso Sonic who called me and said, Hey,

1345
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 4: I've got these groups I'm shopping. Can we set up

1346
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 4: a meeting. I'm like, yeah, da, da da, And you

1347
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 4: sat on the phone. There were three groups. Two of

1348
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 4: them were like sort of these more mainstream like Rene

1349
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:01,599
Speaker 4: and angela type of groups or something, and he mentioned, uh,

1350
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 4: Dala Saul. He said, oh, and there's this group that

1351
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 4: Paul's working with called Dela Saul. And I do remember

1352
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 4: thinking that's a really intriguing name. You know what is

1353
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 4: that it didn't sound like a hip hop group, and

1354
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 4: so I met with him and that's in that demo

1355
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,640
Speaker 4: tape of Plug Tuning and Freedom, Freedom of Speak. I

1356
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:27,760
Speaker 4: think uh was on the Freedom, yeah, but it was

1357
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 4: the two tracks on the on the one cassette, and

1358
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 4: it was like you immediately knew that it was either

1359
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 4: going to be big or nothing. And that's where I

1360
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 4: think Tommy Boys legacy largely lies with signings that were

1361
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 4: sort of in that category you're gonna love it or

1362
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,719
Speaker 4: you're not gonna hate it, but it wasn't in the middle.

1363
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 4: And Dala Soul I think personifies that. And you know,

1364
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 4: the the demo of Plug Tuning sounds pretty much I'm

1365
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 4: pretty sure. I don't think that it was even even mixed,

1366
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 4: you know. I think was an eight track that Paul

1367
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 4: did and I don't think it even went beyond that.

1368
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 4: By the time it was mastered. I think it was

1369
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 4: still like this eight trick demo sounding thing. And we

1370
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 4: had this we did this ad campaign where we got

1371
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 4: all these different people to say, you know, you know

1372
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 4: how it is, you know, like when.

1373
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 1: You know L's mom she was part of it.

1374
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 4: Latifa's mom, the lake Rita Owens. We did we did

1375
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 4: a campaign that I came in for Dala Soul. I

1376
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 4: came in for Patty LaBelle. I came out with Dala Saul.

1377
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 4: We had this one with like some goofy, you know,

1378
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:36,600
Speaker 4: sort of straight looking white guy like you know, I

1379
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 4: came in for I forget it wasn't steely dandy.

1380
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 1: We hung that up in Sam Goodies. I worked at

1381
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: Sam Goodies at the time.

1382
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 4: Oh man, well then you know, so this part that

1383
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 4: imaging campaign I think was fantastic. We had a great

1384
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 4: full page ad and billboard that said Dala Gold when

1385
01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 4: it went gold. But you know, I think it a

1386
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 4: lot of it sprung from the group itself, because you know,

1387
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,679
Speaker 4: I still have and I shared this with Pass actually

1388
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 4: just last week. He sat down in the office and

1389
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 4: with this he has a very distinctive style of cursive

1390
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:21,679
Speaker 4: and he was writing down the history of Dla Soul

1391
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:26,639
Speaker 4: on this notebook paper set, describing who each group member was,

1392
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 4: and he was writing it in day last speak. And

1393
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 4: that was another thing too, because like nobody knew what

1394
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 4: the fuck they were talking about. They had their own language,

1395
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 4: like what are they talk? What what do you mean

1396
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 4: plug tune? And what's that you know? And what is true?

1397
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:46,040
Speaker 4: Guy the dove? You know? What is all this stuff?

1398
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 4: But they but they had a different look, they had

1399
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 4: a different sensibility. So there was a lot there to

1400
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 4: already work with and to sort of get inspired to

1401
01:20:57,439 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 4: do interesting and creative marketing and motion. Uh, you really

1402
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 4: can't do something unless the something that the project and

1403
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 4: the recordings and the artists that you're working with are

1404
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 4: interesting in and of themselves. You can blow it up

1405
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 4: and magnify it. But if they're not, if it's not

1406
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 4: inherently interesting and great, you can't really do anything. So

1407
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 4: so they really they were like, wow, this group pretty interesting.

1408
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 4: There a lot of people played role. I don't know

1409
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 4: if you know Rod Houston because he's also from from

1410
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:32,440
Speaker 4: from Philadelphia. He's now one of the biggest voice.

1411
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:33,759
Speaker 1: He's huge.

1412
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 4: He's huge, and Rod I still have the copy that

1413
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 4: he wrote up because we did this contest to name

1414
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:42,560
Speaker 4: the sample.

1415
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, did you.

1416
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 4: Did you enter? I didn't.

1417
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 2: I didn't know the LIBERACEI or any Yeah I didn't

1418
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:51,679
Speaker 2: know that.

1419
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 4: Yeah we got I still have a lot of the

1420
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,560
Speaker 4: entries from the contest that I kept. A lot of

1421
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 4: people thought it was Bobby Bloom and the only person

1422
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 4: who got the who the only person who got it

1423
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,879
Speaker 4: right was Joel Weber, as I mentioned to him earlier

1424
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 4: with the Partners in the New Music Seminar, And he's

1425
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 4: the guy who put out He was an A and

1426
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 4: R guy at Fourth and Broadway in Island. He put

1427
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 4: out The Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight. And he was the only

1428
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 4: one who identified the invitations right. It's written on the

1429
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 4: wall is the sample right record? So they So there

1430
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 4: was a lot of really great things that sort of

1431
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 4: sprung from the fact that the group themselves were so

1432
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 4: different and so interesting. And I think that that whole

1433
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 4: Daisy age imagery, you know, was certainly a blessing and

1434
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 4: a curse for the group because then they didn't really

1435
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,640
Speaker 4: like being named the hippies of hip hop, and you know,

1436
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 4: pushed back against it, you know. But that was that

1437
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 4: album Three Feet High in Rising, you know. And that

1438
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,600
Speaker 4: was actually the first project I assigned to Dante. I

1439
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 4: know that the Dante make sure you get to this,

1440
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 4: get the clearances for so and so and so and so,

1441
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:05,519
Speaker 4: But it was the first project that he worked on,

1442
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 4: which was fantastic. He did an amazing job. And Paul,

1443
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 4: of course, you know, yeah from one to ten.

1444
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 2: How much of a headache was the the Flow and

1445
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 2: Eddy situation because of course, uh, Flow and Eddie of

1446
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 2: the Turtles sort of you know, recognizes their sample and

1447
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 2: then you know, we're taught that that was the that

1448
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 2: was the gauntlet moment of rappers clearing samples for you know,

1449
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 2: was it a quick one and done, Oh my bad,

1450
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:45,320
Speaker 2: here's forty thousand bucks, or were they like we wanted

1451
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 2: a billion dollars and you know, this is.

1452
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:52,639
Speaker 4: That's you know, that's another great topic because the Dala

1453
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 4: Saw three feet High and Rising really did become the

1454
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 4: litmus test for a lot of sampling issues, and it

1455
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 4: became the postage for everything that could go wrong is

1456
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 4: all here on one album. And you know, so it

1457
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 4: wasn't just flowin Eddie. You know, I still have the

1458
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:15,200
Speaker 4: letter from MCA Publishing about Steely Dan or by the way,

1459
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 4: they misspelled Donald Faken's name. But it became sort of

1460
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 4: a blessing and a curse. It was, well, I should

1461
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 4: say maybe more of a curse because look at everything

1462
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 4: that the group has had to go through all these years.

1463
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's problematic now trying to clear these samples again.

1464
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:35,799
Speaker 4: Still yeah. So, but it also became it was certainly

1465
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 4: a news story. I mean, as you Kurt Loder, you know,

1466
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:43,680
Speaker 4: and there was all these like news stories about sampling.

1467
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 4: It became a big thing, you know. And of course,

1468
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 4: you know, uh Danny O Stessisnic addressed this very brilliantly

1469
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 4: and talking all that as one of the best records

1470
01:24:56,080 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 4: over and but yeah, it was certainly costly. It was

1471
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,680
Speaker 4: a distraction. And the thing about it is this, this

1472
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 4: is my takeaway from it, is that at that point

1473
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:12,599
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty nine, a lot of these rock guys

1474
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:18,680
Speaker 4: were really of the mindset of like they're stealing my

1475
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 4: fucking art, and they weren't down with the hip hop,

1476
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,759
Speaker 4: they weren't down with the sampling. They had very closed

1477
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 4: minds about this. There was not a it had not

1478
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:36,679
Speaker 4: been established as a path like oh yeah, okay, we'll

1479
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 4: just get this sample clear like today. I mean, now,

1480
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 4: you know, I think a lot of people maybe avoid

1481
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 4: sampling to a large degree for all the problems and

1482
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 4: costs associated with it.

1483
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 2: But it's ironic to me being as those same guys

1484
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,559
Speaker 2: sample old Blues records to create their songs.

1485
01:25:55,400 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, who had these guys who were older rock

1486
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 4: guys with big you know, they had egos and they

1487
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:09,759
Speaker 4: just had they were their mindset was completely divorced from

1488
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 4: hip hop being a cool, interesting thing and oh wow,

1489
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 4: they're taking something I made and doing something cool and

1490
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:19,639
Speaker 4: flipping it. A lot of these guys did not see

1491
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 4: it that way at all.

1492
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:25,360
Speaker 2: Well, now, I know that George Clinton was extremely He

1493
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 2: had gratitude for me, myself and I at least because

1494
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 2: you know, he instantly saw that, okay, this is bringing

1495
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 2: me back clearly to a new audience.

1496
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:40,480
Speaker 4: So well yeah, well yeah, and you also had Westbound

1497
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 4: Records armand Baladian, thank you very much.

1498
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 1: Oh jesus.

1499
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Armond Baladian was was definitely playing ball. I mean,

1500
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 4: you know, he saw that there was money to be

1501
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 4: made in doing sample clearances. So you know what was

1502
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 4: Digital Underground or daylor or whoever it was. He's you know,

1503
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 4: he owned a lot of this stuff, and so he

1504
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 4: wasn't reluctant in the way that a lot of the

1505
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 4: rock guys were about, you know, violating their art. You know,

1506
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 4: it was just it was a different Again, you have

1507
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,599
Speaker 4: commerce on the one side, and you've got these guys

1508
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 4: who were like, man, that's you know, don't touch my

1509
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 4: ship man.

1510
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 5: You know, so right, I was gonna ask Monica, what

1511
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 5: is your involvement, if any, with the current Daylight situation

1512
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 5: with trying to get their catalog on to streaming.

1513
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:41,000
Speaker 4: None is my I don't have any involvement in that

1514
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 4: except to be supportive of the group. And you know, uh,

1515
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 4: you know, I occasionally have back and forth with with

1516
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 4: PAS and you know, I have a lot of love

1517
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 4: for those guys, and I hope that you know, they've

1518
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 4: been through a lot. They've been through a lot, so

1519
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 4: but I don't I haven't had any sort of dealings

1520
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,280
Speaker 4: with their business.

1521
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 2: I believe our good friend Faith Newman is now at

1522
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 2: the helm of that project and trying to re clear

1523
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:13,920
Speaker 2: the samples and all that stuff.

1524
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 4: I hope for Jail's sake that that comes through.

1525
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 1: Well.

1526
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,679
Speaker 2: I mean, they have it, but you know, now it's

1527
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 2: like they got to do the work and you know,

1528
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 2: find somebody to fund. You know, they're they're doing it,

1529
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 2: but it's just a very slow process, song by song,

1530
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 2: and they want it as they do.

1531
01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 1: You know.

1532
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 2: Thank God, I'm so relieved that they're not doing you

1533
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 2: know the sit now where people like redoing their sits

1534
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 2: on iTunes and gagging you with like these kind of

1535
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 2: subpar versions of their so.

1536
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:46,800
Speaker 1: Re records or whatever. I hate that.

1537
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 2: Wait, okay, well I want to give a shout out

1538
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 2: to Dart Adams, who a surefire way to make him

1539
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 2: angry is to acknowledge that Three Feet High and Rising

1540
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 2: came out March third, nineteen eighty nine.

1541
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Dart Adams, I never.

1542
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 2: Met a person more angrier when he's like, it wasn't

1543
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 2: March third, it was February seventh.

1544
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 4: Yes, oh really, see he's thinking of the promo.

1545
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 1: The promoh he.

1546
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you just you're about to set Dark

1547
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:23,680
Speaker 2: Eyed using opinions of Monica Lynch are not like.

1548
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 4: No, listen, I say, I have a lot of Tommy

1549
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 4: Boy archival materials. I could probably.

1550
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you can officially tell us when the

1551
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 2: release date was, because I swear to God he makes

1552
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 2: this every March third. He gets mad as shit when

1553
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 2: Pass or any member of Daylight Soul gets the date wrong,

1554
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 2: but he swears to God that like March third. He's like,

1555
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 2: like Wikipedia is wrong, everything's wrong, Like he knows listen.

1556
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 4: I'll just say this. At some point I'll go through

1557
01:29:56,520 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 4: all go all is if I find anything that might

1558
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 4: have led to his belief photo. The only thing I

1559
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 4: could possibly think is that maybe you know, because again,

1560
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 4: lead times for things like press were significant back then,

1561
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 4: so maybe just maybe there was an advance copy. But

1562
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,640
Speaker 4: I don't want to you know, that's not official.

1563
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 2: So I have one quick question about Cessy Sonic now,

1564
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:32,920
Speaker 2: the way that you guys, the way that you guys

1565
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:37,200
Speaker 2: pushed for some ds to be you know, the do

1566
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 2: wop you know hip hop thing in daylight where the

1567
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 2: hippies of hip hop the exception of a brief write

1568
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 2: up and spin like, I felt like not enough was

1569
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 2: done to really drive home, at least of marketing that

1570
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 2: this is a hip hop band.

1571
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't an easy sound.

1572
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:57,360
Speaker 1: And I've never seen them.

1573
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 2: I've never heard stets of Sonic live ever, Like even

1574
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 2: when you re YouTube, no, there's no there's no footage

1575
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 2: of them on YouTube or anything.

1576
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 1: Like I'm taking you guys's word for it.

1577
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 2: That's that's a Sonic live in concert is a band,

1578
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 2: but there's there's no I mean, you know on in

1579
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 2: on Wax, you know besides Bobby Simmons playing drums on stuff,

1580
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 2: and you know, I know they did live stuff on keys,

1581
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 2: but I've just never seen that's a Sonic on stage.

1582
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 2: And there's no footage of them, and they're almost like

1583
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 2: the Harlem Cultural Festival, Like I don't believe it.

1584
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 4: That's that's pretty interesting. I had never really thought about that.

1585
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 4: I didn't go to look, but I mean I'd seen

1586
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 4: them perform live and they were really, you know, fantastic.

1587
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 4: I think the man it was very frustrating because they,

1588
01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 4: you know, sets a Sonic as a group, they really

1589
01:31:56,320 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 4: worked hard and and you know, it was frustrate rating.

1590
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:05,439
Speaker 4: I mean, everyone wants to have big hits, and they

1591
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:09,680
Speaker 4: had some hits, but they weren't on the level that

1592
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 4: is going to push you into a certain territory.

1593
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:13,600
Speaker 6: You know.

1594
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:17,559
Speaker 4: I think talking all that jazz was like a really

1595
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:20,200
Speaker 4: you know, when you look back at the catalog, I

1596
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 4: think that one to me is like and they had,

1597
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 4: you know, Sally was like a record that did really

1598
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:32,920
Speaker 4: well in Florida and other markets. Oh and you know

1599
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 4: Ghostats of Brooklyn, Go Brooklyn. You can't even soon did

1600
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 4: you put Somebody has told me recently said you put

1601
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 4: that record at the Union Square, and that was a

1602
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,439
Speaker 4: signal for stick up kids to like get there, get

1603
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 4: the loot, you know, Like that's why I always stood

1604
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 4: near the door at that place. I was like.

1605
01:32:56,439 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 1: Traumatizing, Yeah, totally.

1606
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 4: So they always got huge respect and they had great records,

1607
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 4: but they they just you know, and it's it's it's

1608
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:14,120
Speaker 4: a frustration even to this day, you know that we

1609
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 4: weren't able to break them out in a Huger way.

1610
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 4: It happens.

1611
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 5: And I was going to ask you, Monica about Shock G.

1612
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 5: I just hate He's someone that we had on our

1613
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,640
Speaker 5: list for a long time, but you know, we you know, sadly.

1614
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 1: Didn't get an interview before he passed.

1615
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:34,719
Speaker 5: What was he like just as an artist, as a producer,

1616
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:35,800
Speaker 5: what was it like working with him?

1617
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 4: You know, I've actually just had a long conversation with

1618
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 4: his former manager Atron last night. We stayed lunch. Yeah

1619
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 4: and Shock we used to talk on the phone and

1620
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:56,479
Speaker 4: he Shock was He was incredibly intelligent, so smart, so funny,

1621
01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 4: He was very charming. He had an enormous gift as

1622
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 4: a visual artist. You know, I had a lot of

1623
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:07,679
Speaker 4: dealing you know, he was We had a great relationship.

1624
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 4: He would always be very very specific about artwork. I

1625
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:15,559
Speaker 4: have some like layouts that he would send me, these

1626
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 4: rough layouts. You know, this needs to go exactly here.

1627
01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 4: This goes exactly here. Because he did all the artwork

1628
01:34:22,520 --> 01:34:25,720
Speaker 4: for all the digital Underground releases and even starting with

1629
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:31,679
Speaker 4: the early version of Underwater Rhymes and Life's of Cartoon,

1630
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:35,680
Speaker 4: that the twelve ings that they had before mccola before

1631
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:39,640
Speaker 4: they came to Tommy Boy, but the well T and

1632
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:45,719
Speaker 4: T recordings, the But he was someone who was very deep.

1633
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 4: I spoke with Latifa recently about him too, well, shortly

1634
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:53,360
Speaker 4: after he passed. We spoke about it because she talked

1635
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:55,680
Speaker 4: about how she went on tour with him and they

1636
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 4: would just go to the hotel lobby and he would

1637
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 4: stare just noodling on the piano. He's a great jazz

1638
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:07,840
Speaker 4: musician and she loved jazz and they had a strong

1639
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:13,519
Speaker 4: connection there. He was just he was an artist with

1640
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:18,480
Speaker 4: a capital A, you know, and and you know, obviously

1641
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:22,640
Speaker 4: he brought Tupac. You know, it was largely responsible for

1642
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:28,440
Speaker 4: bringing Tupac into the world as an artist. And yeah,

1643
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:32,920
Speaker 4: really really special guy. I've never met any you know,

1644
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 4: like especially these days where everything marketing beefs seemed to

1645
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 4: be a marketing tool, and there were beefs back then.

1646
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:43,519
Speaker 4: You know, you could look at karras one or you know,

1647
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 4: whatever was going on. There's always some sort of beefs

1648
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 4: going on. But no, with Shock, he was everyone loved him.

1649
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:53,960
Speaker 4: You know, I was tuking to Pete Nice when he

1650
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:58,639
Speaker 4: was traveled with the Third Base with them, and he

1651
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:01,240
Speaker 4: had huge love for him. I don't know, I don't

1652
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 4: know what I can say about shaq g other than

1653
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,760
Speaker 4: he was just We'd have late night phone calls with

1654
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:11,720
Speaker 4: him and he could just expound on just about he

1655
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 4: was a guy. He was very cosmic. He was very cosmic.

1656
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 2: So okay, ladies and gentlemen, I have to tell you

1657
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:22,800
Speaker 2: guys that we will have a part two with Monica Lynch,

1658
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:25,759
Speaker 2: the legendary Monica Lynch on Quest Loft Supreme.

1659
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 1: This incredible conversation. Uh.

1660
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:32,040
Speaker 2: We will be back in a later episode to talk

1661
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:36,639
Speaker 2: about basically the nineties with Coolio, with k seven LFO,

1662
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:38,120
Speaker 2: with the Rizza.

1663
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 1: Yo.

1664
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 2: There's so much more that that will happen on the

1665
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:44,759
Speaker 2: next episode of Quest lof Supreme.

1666
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:47,880
Speaker 1: Uh. And you will promise to come back with this Monica.

1667
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 4: Correct, absolutely thank you beautiful.

1668
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 2: All right, So in Biabo Sugar Steve and unpaid Bill

1669
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:58,240
Speaker 2: and fon Digelo and layah, this is questo and shout

1670
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:01,240
Speaker 2: out to cousin Jake holding us down on the leads

1671
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,559
Speaker 2: and uh you know we will see you on the

1672
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:04,080
Speaker 2: next ground.

1673
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 7: Thank you very much, Happy with Mom.

1674
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:23,479
Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For

1675
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1676
01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.