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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Nori with you, Marcus Charming with us as we will

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Speaker 1: be talking about all things space. What is it about

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Speaker 1: the universe that excites you, Marcus? I suppose the most

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Speaker 1: exciting thing for me at the moment is that we

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Speaker 1: can only see two and a half percent of it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we've now discovered, incredibly, after three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: years or so, that the visible stuff, the start and galaxies,

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Speaker 1: the planets, and the accounts for five percent of the universe,

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Speaker 1: five percent of the matter at the universe, and only

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Speaker 1: half of that five percent two and a half percent,

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Speaker 1: if we actually seen with our telescopes the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: We think it might be invisible gas between the galaxies,

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Speaker 1: it's only five percent, and it turns out that there

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Speaker 1: is about twenty five percent is what we call dark matter. Okay.

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Speaker 1: We know it's out there because we can see it

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Speaker 1: pulling on the visible stuff. So we see all the

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Speaker 1: visible stuff and moving in ways we would not expect.

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Speaker 1: So we say, this stuff that's got gravity, but we

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Speaker 1: literally can't see it. And about seventy percent is what

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Speaker 1: we call dark energy, and that was only discovered in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight. Can you believe it? The major mass

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Speaker 1: component of the universe we didn't know about until nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight, which is like twenty two years ago. And

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Speaker 1: we've got really very little idea what dark energy and

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Speaker 1: dark matter are, so really we're in this weird position.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if Darwin was going to come up with his

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Speaker 1: theory evolution and he only knew about frogs and snakes,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't know about insects, and he didn't know

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Speaker 1: about fish or most of the things in the animal kingdom.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what kind of theory would he have concocted?

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Speaker 1: They of cosmology, and we only know it's based on

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Speaker 1: that the two a half or the fire descent that

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Speaker 1: we can see. So I think that's pretty amazing that

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Speaker 1: most of the universe is invisible. So if anyone think

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Speaker 1: out there any kids who want to go into France

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Speaker 1: and I think it's all sewn up and there's nothing

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Speaker 1: more to don't We don't actually know what most of

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Speaker 1: the universe is made of. So I find that very

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Speaker 1: very exciting. And when you say it's invisible, but it's there.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean in theory, if you launched a rocket

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Speaker 1: toward it, could you crash into it? You couldn't crash

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Speaker 1: into it because one of the one of its characteristic

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Speaker 1: is that it doesn't give out a light Okay, So

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Speaker 1: what we mean is it doesn't interact with light, and

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Speaker 1: light is a product of what we call the electromagnetic force,

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't interact with the electromagnetic force. So the

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Speaker 1: electromaetic agnetic force is responsible for kind of the repulsion.

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Speaker 1: So the reason that if you try it, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: if you'll put your hand on the cabinet vehicle or

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Speaker 1: on a desk, you can feel that your fingers don't

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Speaker 1: go through that desk is because there's a repulsion, an

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Speaker 1: electric repulsion between the electrons and the atoms in your

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Speaker 1: fingers and the electrons in the atoms in your in

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Speaker 1: the tabe. Okay, Now, dark matter doesn't feel that. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't don't experience that. So literally you would fry straight

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Speaker 1: through the dark matter as if it wasn't there, you know,

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Speaker 1: So you would crash into it at all, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, so the dark matter, as far as

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Speaker 1: we know, the dark matter is in the you know,

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Speaker 1: it's in the studio where you're actually, you know, talking

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Speaker 1: to me from, it's in the room where I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to you from. It's it is everywhere, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: interact with normal matter, so it doesn't bump into normal

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Speaker 1: matter in any way. And that's why we can't we

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Speaker 1: can't detect that. That's strange. How do we know what's

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Speaker 1: there simply because we well, if you say, I'll go

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Speaker 1: back to my book The Magicians, because the first magician

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Speaker 1: was a guy called Urban the Verier, and he deduced

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Speaker 1: that there had to be another planet because there was

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Speaker 1: a planet Uranus or Uranus however you'd like to pronounce it,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't orbiting the Sun in the right way.

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Speaker 1: It was weird. It's allbit. So he passed. But there

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Speaker 1: had to exist another planet further out whose gravity was

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Speaker 1: pulling on on Neptune and perturbing its orbit, and it

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Speaker 1: predicted exist as a Neptune. Well, dark matter is simply

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Speaker 1: the Neptune of today. You know, we see things moving.

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Speaker 1: So for instance, we see fars orbiting around the cause

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Speaker 1: of their galaxies and they're meeting too fast. By rights,

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Speaker 1: they should be flying off into intermactic space. So what

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Speaker 1: we infer is that there's more matter whose extra gravity

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Speaker 1: is gripping onto them. So it's rather likely it is

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Speaker 1: just like Neptune. You know, it's because things are moving.

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Speaker 1: We see things moving in a way that we cannot

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Speaker 1: explain from the visible far than gravity and a starting

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Speaker 1: galaxies and air gravity. We infer that this stuff is around,

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Speaker 1: so as that there's about six six times as much

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Speaker 1: dark matter as there is ordinary don't you figure what

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Speaker 1: it is? There's an Obel prize waiting for you in

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Speaker 1: stock Fo. You got that right. Could Could there be

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Speaker 1: life out there on the dark matter? That is a

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Speaker 1: fantastic question because I I one of the one of

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Speaker 1: the default position of physicists is they think the dark

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Speaker 1: matter might be made of some subatomic pascal we haven't found, okay,

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Speaker 1: so they think it's an amorphous, you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: all all made of just one thing. But the one

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Speaker 1: the thing that we know about augury matter is it's

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Speaker 1: not made of one thing. It's made of ninety two

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Speaker 1: different elements, all the way from hydrogen to you know,

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Speaker 1: uranium naturally occurring and it and it the pieces come

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Speaker 1: together to make molecules, to make life, to make planets.

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Speaker 1: So what we One thing we know of that augury

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Speaker 1: matter is it clumps into complex organization. So who knows.

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Speaker 1: The dark matter could similarly be made of lots of

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Speaker 1: different particles which clump together, as you just said, to

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Speaker 1: make maybe dark stars, dark planets, dark life. You know,

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Speaker 1: could that be the answer to why we have after

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Speaker 1: searching since well for fifty years, searching for signals from extraterrestrials,

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Speaker 1: we've never found them. Could it be that all the

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Speaker 1: activity is in the dark matter? You know, there's all

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Speaker 1: this activity going on all around us and we can't

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Speaker 1: see it. Who knows? I mean, but in theory, could

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Speaker 1: planets collide? Could a planet that we see collide with

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Speaker 1: a planet that is in the dark matter stage? It

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Speaker 1: certainly could. But the yeah, that's a good question. That's

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Speaker 1: a good question if one of the problems with at

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Speaker 1: the moment, one of the problems is that why did

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Speaker 1: why do planets form? You know, why does spider stars form?

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Speaker 1: You know? Why does material shrink perform from gas clouds

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Speaker 1: per form stars and planets? Right? Okay, throughout the entire universe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's uniform. I'm just going to make a comparative.

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Speaker 1: Your wide, dart matter may not trump. The reason it

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Speaker 1: can do that is because, well, first of all, if

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Speaker 1: you have a big cloud of gas in space, it's warm,

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Speaker 1: and the warmth of the gas pushes outwards against gravity, right,

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Speaker 1: so that the thing can't collapse because gravity is trying

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Speaker 1: to squeeze it, but the hot gas inside is pushing outwards. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So the only way it's going to collapse is if

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Speaker 1: it loses that internal heat. Now, normal matter, what actually

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Speaker 1: happens is it radiates. It radiates what we call microwaves,

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Speaker 1: which is a kind of light that we can't see.

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Speaker 1: And that's right, or heat escapes from the crowd. So

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Speaker 1: because normal normal matter radiate, the interior of gas clouds

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Speaker 1: is robbed of heat. So gravity and there can then

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Speaker 1: crush it. Now, dart matter does not interact with light.

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Speaker 1: It does not produce what we call electromega radiation, so

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Speaker 1: it has no way of removing its internal heat. So

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Speaker 1: as far as you can tell, it can't shrink or

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Speaker 1: in the same way as ordinary matter. So when we

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Speaker 1: when we infer its existence. So for instance, if you

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Speaker 1: think about Milky Way, I don't feel that everyone's got

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Speaker 1: a picture of our galaxy, but it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: a like a whirlpool of stars, you know, a flat

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Speaker 1: whirlpool of stars. We believe that the dark matter is

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Speaker 1: actually a spherical cloud in which the Milky Way is embedded.

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Speaker 1: Because although the orbity matter could claps, could shrink down

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Speaker 1: to form this flat spiral, the dark matter couldn't because

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Speaker 1: it couldn't get rid of its heat. And if you

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Speaker 1: can't get it can't get rid of its heat, gravity

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Speaker 1: can't crash it. Now, so that that kind of contradicts

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Speaker 1: the thing that I just told you about about how

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Speaker 1: we could have dark stars and planet. But of course

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Speaker 1: it's quite possible that there was another type of light,

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Speaker 1: dark light, you know, there was another interaction other than

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Speaker 1: the electric magnetic interaction, maybe dark light, and that dark

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Speaker 1: matter could collapse because of that reason. That would that reason.

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Speaker 1: But but but we think that that, yeah, So that's

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Speaker 1: why would would would so if it were possible to

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Speaker 1: have a dark matter planet and it did collide with

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Speaker 1: the Earth, I think we would feel it. You would think, so, question,

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Speaker 1: you would think, So, let's talk about the Big Bang

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Speaker 1: for a moment. Marcus, My gosh, how could something create

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Speaker 1: itself from nothing? I still don't understand that nobody knows

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Speaker 1: will will we ever get the answer? Hard to hard

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Speaker 1: to tell, um. I mean, what's what we can do

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Speaker 1: is which is incredible. I mean, you know, remember that

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Speaker 1: we are an ape that arose on an African plane

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Speaker 1: three million years ago with a brain, a three pound brain,

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Speaker 1: you know, made mostly of jelly and water. And yet

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Speaker 1: with our telescopes we've seen to the edge of the

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Speaker 1: observable universe. We can u we can see what the

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Speaker 1: universe has made of about two trillion galaxies. There's two

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Speaker 1: million million galaxies like our own. And we have an idea.

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Speaker 1: We also have an idea that because all the galaxies

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Speaker 1: are flying apart from each other, they must have been

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Speaker 1: closer in the past. And if we run that kind

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Speaker 1: of movie of the universe's expansion backwards and like a

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Speaker 1: movie in reverse, we come to this time thirteen point

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Speaker 1: eighteen billion years ago when everything was compressed into a

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Speaker 1: smaller region, the big Banks. So we know that's correct,

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Speaker 1: we know it's correct. But as for you know, you

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Speaker 1: always come back to this fundamental question, how did something

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Speaker 1: come from nothing? I know it, and you've got crazy thinking. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the answer is that we don't really know that but

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Speaker 1: I would tell you that in the in the modern picture,

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Speaker 1: which is we bolted onto other ideas, onto the big bank. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the big Bang model now has a few other

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Speaker 1: things bolted on. It had dark matter bolted on, it

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Speaker 1: had darker that you bolted on, and another thing it

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Speaker 1: has bolted on is what we call inflation. And in

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Speaker 1: this picture, the Big Bang is not a one off,

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Speaker 1: so it's not the only big bang. So these these

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Speaker 1: big bangs are going off all across this huge universe

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Speaker 1: rather like firecrackers, you know, randomly, So we are just one,

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Speaker 1: you know, we are just in the vicinity of one

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Speaker 1: of these these big bangs. Religious people Marcus will say

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Speaker 1: God did it and leave it at that. Well, the

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Speaker 1: problem with that, the problem is adding inflation is you

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Speaker 1: just push back the problem because you say, well, yes,

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Speaker 1: there was something before the Big Bang, because there was

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Speaker 1: what we call this inflationary vacuum, and when it decayed,

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Speaker 1: randomly is expanding, and it decayed, those decays were big

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Speaker 1: Bang universes. But it turns out that inflation itself had

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Speaker 1: to have a beginning. So although you've said, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: there was something before the Big Bang, you know, there

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Speaker 1: was what we call inflation, and there are other big banks.

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Speaker 1: You still get to the point that inflation had to

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Speaker 1: begin as well. Well, I don't know, I mean the

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Speaker 1: problem is it. I mean again, that isn't really I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can believe that God creates it if you like,

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Speaker 1: but obviously that's not the preserve of science because of

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Speaker 1: one of the characteristics of science is that you put

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Speaker 1: very little in and you get a lot out. So,

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Speaker 1: for instance, you have a law of gravity, which you

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Speaker 1: can write in the back of the stamp, and that

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Speaker 1: explains tons of stuff, explains how how planets are formed

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Speaker 1: and stars. It how the orbit stars, how stars orbit

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Speaker 1: in downaces. Tons of stuff comes out from a tiny,

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Speaker 1: tiny little thing, so you get a lot out. You

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Speaker 1: put very little in. With the God explanation, you have

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Speaker 1: to put a lot in to get a lot out.

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Speaker 1: In fact, God has to be more complicated than your universe.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of the obverse of science. So you

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Speaker 1: can believe that, but I mean, it isn't really the

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Speaker 1: preserve of science, you know, because science doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 1: When we get a scientific explanation, and I hope we

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Speaker 1: will get a science at exclamation because because basically I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to Newton. Newton was an incredibly religious man,

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Speaker 1: and the reason he did science was he because because

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Speaker 1: he believed he was getting an insight into the mind

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Speaker 1: of God. That's what drove him, because he wanted to

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Speaker 1: know how God had put the universe together, so he

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Speaker 1: didn't see any conflict whatsoever. You know, he thought, I'll

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Speaker 1: figure out how, you know, I want to figure out

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Speaker 1: how God did this, so you know, that's one way

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Speaker 1: of thinking about it. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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