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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly Molly. Before we

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Speaker 1: got into the recording booth today, you said something interesting,

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Speaker 1: just one thing, just one, only one, an interesting observation

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Speaker 1: about yourself. You said that you think that the podcast,

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Speaker 1: doing this podcast has made you a more honest person.

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Speaker 1: I think so. I think that, um, you know, we've

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot of crazy, somewhat taboo things, Kristen.

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Speaker 1: I think that when you um talk um and get

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Speaker 1: paid for talking about uh poop menstruation, when you save

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Speaker 1: a lot, you just stopped caring. And I think that

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Speaker 1: your filter goes away. And I think that that probably

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Speaker 1: has made more honest in my in my real life

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Speaker 1: and also in the podcast booth and your day to

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Speaker 1: day interactions. I think so. Either that or I'm just

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Speaker 1: really good at lying up to myself and I don't

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Speaker 1: realize that I'm lying to other people. See you consider

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Speaker 1: yourself a pretty truthful person, You don't, I think so.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, I think that um talking about

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Speaker 1: so many kind of you know, crazy off the wall

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Speaker 1: topics has made me just more honest about it. What

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Speaker 1: about you, Kristen? Does that make sense? That makes absolute sense?

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Speaker 1: And I think that you hit the nail on the

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Speaker 1: head when you're talking about the difference between lying to

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Speaker 1: other people and lying to yourself, because what we will

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Speaker 1: learn is that when it comes to lying, people tend

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Speaker 1: to lie to themselves about how much they lie. Write

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Speaker 1: something that distinguishes humans from animals, because you know what, Molly,

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Speaker 1: we are just humans are just a pack of liars.

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Speaker 1: We are engaged in my guests. The topic of todays

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Speaker 1: show is lying, and in reading all this research getay

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Speaker 1: for the episode. It just follows the mind how many

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Speaker 1: lies are told in the course of one day, so

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Speaker 1: many lies as we go throughout our day to day interactions.

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Speaker 1: And we wanted to focus on, as we typically do

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Speaker 1: with mom stuff, whether or not men or women lie

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Speaker 1: more because when we initially started researching, there were stories

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Speaker 1: that would pop up saying new poll finds that men

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Speaker 1: lie more than women, and then of course you'd have

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Speaker 1: some study saying that women lie more than men. But

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Speaker 1: what's really the truth? That's what we're gonna get to yes,

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Speaker 1: the truth, the truth. Yes, let's get down to the truth.

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Speaker 1: But why would you lie in the first place? Why

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Speaker 1: are there so many lies being told? And the research

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Speaker 1: shows that most lies are are pretty good. You wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want to take them away from society because they're the

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Speaker 1: the grease that keeps society's wheels turning. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: social function to lying. For instance, when you see someone

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Speaker 1: see see a galpal with a new haircut and it

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Speaker 1: looks awful. It's like a bad rachel from friends, and

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Speaker 1: yet it's two thousand eleven and she's somehow chosen to

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Speaker 1: get a rachel and it's so dramatic. You have to

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Speaker 1: say something, and you're not going to say, dear God,

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Speaker 1: why did you do that to your hair? You say, hey,

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Speaker 1: my god, I love your new haircut. She says, really,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about it. Your like, no, really, it's good,

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Speaker 1: it's good. Yeah. Or if you're invited out to dinner,

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Speaker 1: if if a pal cooks your dinner and it's overdone

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Speaker 1: or something like that, you're not going to say three

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Speaker 1: stars out of five. It can be like, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, I love this. Highlight him. I me Gutty

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Speaker 1: Crocker in here. So those those are when people talk

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Speaker 1: about how many lives are happening, it seems like these

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Speaker 1: are the majority of the lives. Yeah, we're not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not like everyone's just walking around intentionally spinning tall tales. Right.

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Speaker 1: In fact, most people, when they're confronted by videotapes of

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Speaker 1: themselves in conversation with another person, are surprised by how

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Speaker 1: often they catch themselves lying. You know. It seems to

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Speaker 1: be eat just a reflex that we have, and it's

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Speaker 1: not something that we're deliberately planning. We're not going around

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Speaker 1: engineering plots to tell people that the sky is green

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Speaker 1: and that we saw like six elephants yesterday. That's not

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Speaker 1: really the typeline. That seems to be the majority of

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Speaker 1: the lives being told. Just little embellishments here. They're just

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Speaker 1: to gloss up the mundane for us, especially to protect

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Speaker 1: our own self image to ourselfs uh. You know, some

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Speaker 1: researchers have found that when our self esteem is threatened

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Speaker 1: in any way, that's when the little falsehoods start to

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Speaker 1: come into being. You know, someone will say, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got an A on the test, and you will

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Speaker 1: say something like, oh, I got a pretty good grade too,

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Speaker 1: and it may not be a good grade, but you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to believe that you've got the good grade.

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Speaker 1: But one interesting fact what I did find in this

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Speaker 1: research is that UM students who lied about their grade

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Speaker 1: point average later went on to have higher grade point averages.

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Speaker 1: And in some ways lives can be self fulfilling, especially

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Speaker 1: when they're tied to your level of self esteem, when

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Speaker 1: you want them to come true. That sounds like the

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Speaker 1: secret remember that book. I did not read that book.

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Speaker 1: Basically lying to yourself into you know, willing things into existence.

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Speaker 1: But basically lives are all about image. Yes, you want

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Speaker 1: to protect your own image, and sometimes you want to

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Speaker 1: protect others image because you're never going to tell a

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Speaker 1: lie about yourself that would make that would be less

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Speaker 1: flattering than the truth. I can't think of when you'd

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Speaker 1: tell like that. Yeah, and but let's want pity, let's

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Speaker 1: true true? And just how much are people lying? The

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Speaker 1: answer is a lot. There was a study published in

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Speaker 1: the Journal of Basic and Applied Psychology that involved strangers

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Speaker 1: sitting down having conversations and the researchers videotaped the conversations

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Speaker 1: and afterwards had the people go back and watch it

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Speaker 1: and predict how many lives that they told before they

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Speaker 1: watched the video, and then actually see what they said

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Speaker 1: and see how the reality matched up to what they

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Speaker 1: how much, how much how truthfully thought that they were

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Speaker 1: and get this smolly. In only ten minutes ten minutes

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Speaker 1: of conversation, an average of two point nine two lies

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Speaker 1: were told. But you know how they got people to

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Speaker 1: identify these lies was to call them inaccurate things. It's

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Speaker 1: not like people thought they were lying necessarily. It's more

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Speaker 1: like fudging the truth. But yes, in a ten minute

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Speaker 1: conversation average with two point nine too inaccurate things. How

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Speaker 1: long do you think we've been talking now, Kristen, Probably

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Speaker 1: way too long. I mean, but we learned to lie

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Speaker 1: from a very young age. There was an article online

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Speaker 1: in Live Science that said that by the age of three,

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Speaker 1: babies figure out how to fudge in We'll think about

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Speaker 1: Christmas or another holiday when you get socks and you

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Speaker 1: have to say, oh, man, I love these socks. They're

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Speaker 1: exactly what I wanted. I mean, you learn your parents

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Speaker 1: teach you had a lot. Now, one other factoid that

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Speaker 1: really surprised me, Kristen and makes a little suspicious about

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Speaker 1: our relationship. People are more willing to lie to their

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Speaker 1: coworkers than to strangers. I mean, granted, you see them more.

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Speaker 1: So you don't want to be on a bad foot

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Speaker 1: with your coworkers. You know if you if you tell

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Speaker 1: a stranger you hate their haircut, then you might not

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Speaker 1: have to see them again. And maybe that self esteem

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Speaker 1: factor that you were talking about earlier comes into play

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Speaker 1: a little bit more in a work environment. But you know,

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Speaker 1: one researcher did point out that lying must be sort

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Speaker 1: of a very short term thing in our brains, because

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Speaker 1: the long term effect of being caught in your lie

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Speaker 1: is could be more damaging if it is someone you

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Speaker 1: see all the time. Right, No one wants to be

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Speaker 1: labeled as a liar, though, even though everyone's walking around

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Speaker 1: telling lies or inaccurate things. And that's the thing we

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Speaker 1: we convinced ourselves, they're just you know, they're a little inaccurates,

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Speaker 1: not a lie. The lie seems to be malicious. But

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Speaker 1: not only are we coworkers and therefore more prone to

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Speaker 1: lie to each other, we are also, in academic terms,

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Speaker 1: a female diet. Oh my gosh, all diets are the

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Speaker 1: worst lying ever. Get two women sitting across the table

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Speaker 1: much like you and I are, and the lies come forth.

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Speaker 1: And that really surprise researchers because gender stereotypes hold that

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Speaker 1: women have more intimate friendships than men do, and it

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Speaker 1: would seem counterproductive to this perceived intimacy to have the

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Speaker 1: two women lying to each other. But lo and behold.

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Speaker 1: In this study that looked at gender and lying, which

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Speaker 1: we're going to go into right now, it was women

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Speaker 1: in interactions with other women that lied the most, but

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Speaker 1: they were very specific types of lies, lies for the

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Speaker 1: benefit of the woman sitting across from the table. Right

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Speaker 1: This study breaks lives down into self directed lies and

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Speaker 1: other directed lies. A self directed lies something that really

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Speaker 1: pumps you up. You know, it's exaggerating how much money

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Speaker 1: you make, or you know, what a great deal you

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Speaker 1: got on your new car, something that really increases, uh,

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Speaker 1: the esteem another per sim will hold for you. And

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Speaker 1: other directed lie as a lie that's told to protect

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Speaker 1: or to build up the esteem of someone someone else.

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Speaker 1: It would be like telling you, oh, I like your haircut. Yeah, wait,

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Speaker 1: what do you say about my hairmman, it's just a

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Speaker 1: hypothetical Christian Yeah. With this with this landmark lying study,

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Speaker 1: because there really haven't been that many studies on deception because,

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Speaker 1: as you could imagine, it'd be kind of hold hard

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Speaker 1: to study and to study lying. Uh. This researcher from

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Speaker 1: the University of Virginia named Bella Depolo had a group

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Speaker 1: of students and then a group of people in the

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Speaker 1: community keep a lying diary essentially for a week, and

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Speaker 1: she then categorized the types of lies that were told,

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Speaker 1: who they told the lies to, whether they were about

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Speaker 1: themselves or about the other person. And an interesting gender

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Speaker 1: pattern did emerge. Right when those when that diet of

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Speaker 1: female is present that we just mentioned, we were more

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Speaker 1: two women were more likely to how uh other directed lives.

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Speaker 1: We were always trying to protect the other person, saying, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you did the right thing breaking up with that guy,

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Speaker 1: even if we maybe thank oh you should have you

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Speaker 1: should have saved that one, or or whatever the lies

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Speaker 1: that we your mistruths or what however, we're gonna categorize

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Speaker 1: these little white lies. That was the kind of lie

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Speaker 1: that the women told, especially with other women, whereas men

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Speaker 1: tend to tell self directed lies such as, oh I

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Speaker 1: got this fantastic deal on my new Jaguar car. I

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Speaker 1: just spent seven hours in the gym working on my muscles,

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Speaker 1: and this so big because of it, I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: men out there will love our stereotypes of what male

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Speaker 1: lives are really boring lies that we're coming up with

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Speaker 1: right now because we're so honest. Christen, It's true I

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Speaker 1: would feel skeptical of all a sudden you're throwing out

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Speaker 1: really great lives. But the big question we wanted to

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Speaker 1: answer with the podcast was whether or not men or

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Speaker 1: women lie more because they'll see a lot of relationship

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Speaker 1: advice about how men to to lie all the time

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Speaker 1: or watch out for those deceitful, witchy women. But Depolo's

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Speaker 1: research indicates that men and women tend to lie about

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Speaker 1: the same amount. And when men and women were in

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Speaker 1: conversation and a lie occurred, uh, it was usually a

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Speaker 1: self a self focused lie. But it was only those

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Speaker 1: women to women interactions where it was another focused lie.

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Speaker 1: But we we are very kind with our lying. I

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Speaker 1: believe one four of the lies, according to Apollo, is

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Speaker 1: another directed lie. And uh, you know, people said that

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Speaker 1: these weren't elaborate, thought out lies. Seventy percent of them,

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Speaker 1: if they had the chance, would lie again. Tell the

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Speaker 1: exact same lie. Even though it made them more uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: to bend the truth a little bit, they still wouldn't

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Speaker 1: do it any differently. It would still preserve their feelings

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Speaker 1: or lie about their g p A or whatever it

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Speaker 1: is they're they're fitting about. And most people thought that

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Speaker 1: the other person couldn't tell that they were lying. They

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Speaker 1: never felt that they got caught. Yea, even though humans

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Speaker 1: are so good at lying and we're lying all the time.

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Speaker 1: What was it in the Apollo study. I believe it

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Speaker 1: was among the college students, one in every three social

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Speaker 1: interaction involves some kind of lying, whereas in the older

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Speaker 1: community population it was one in five interactions. So it's

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Speaker 1: just something that is almost second nature to us with

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Speaker 1: our social interactions. And yet we're not very good at

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Speaker 1: detecting lies. But then the questions nearly becomes are we

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Speaker 1: not so good at detecting lies? Or do we just

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Speaker 1: not want to detect the laws? I think that's a

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Speaker 1: fair question, because if one in four lies are another

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Speaker 1: directed line meant to protect us, do you really want

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Speaker 1: to know? I mean, do I really want to know? Christ?

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Speaker 1: And if you hate my haircut or you know, because

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Speaker 1: you know at the end of the day. What do

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Speaker 1: I care what you think of my haircut? I mean,

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Speaker 1: if I made you dinner and you said it was disgusting, Molly,

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Speaker 1: I don't really think that i'd want to know. That's

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Speaker 1: just I mean, you know, it's not polite. There's a

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Speaker 1: fine line I think between politeness and lying. But of

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Speaker 1: course then you get into you know, not None of

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Speaker 1: these studies really deal with, let's say, a lie in

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Speaker 1: a relationship, a romantic relationship, and I think that those

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Speaker 1: are probably the lies that you know, become the basis

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Speaker 1: of romantic comedies and sitcoms and really big heartbreak too.

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Speaker 1: Uh if it's a lie that feels like this betrayal, right.

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Speaker 1: Psychologists often say that you save the worst lies, the

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Speaker 1: most hurtful and monumental lies, for the ones who are

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Speaker 1: closest to you, and people in dating relationships especially lie

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Speaker 1: to each other all the time. Bella De Paulo, who

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Speaker 1: was the researcher we were talking about earlier from the

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Speaker 1: University of Virginia, said that dating couples lie to each

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Speaker 1: other in about a third of their interactions a third

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Speaker 1: a third. But what was weird is that married couples

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Speaker 1: lie less, but the lies will be bigger. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I take that with a grain up salt. I really

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Speaker 1: can't say which one I'd prefer, but Christine, I think

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Speaker 1: the question then is can you detect a I? And

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Speaker 1: according to one study, women are better at sessing out

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Speaker 1: these little untruths that we tell each other between friends

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Speaker 1: than men are that women are just more able to

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Speaker 1: pick up on the body language miscues. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we we did come across one article about how to

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Speaker 1: tell when someone's lying, and you know, it was kind

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Speaker 1: of frustrating. They seem like pretty generic, uh tips about

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Speaker 1: body language and watching when someone's body language was uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: watching when someone tried to cover their hand, I mean

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Speaker 1: cover their mouth with their hand. Um, watch when someone's

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Speaker 1: eyes were shifty. But you know, all these studies talk

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Speaker 1: about how we are able to internalize and almost make

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Speaker 1: true our lives as soon as we tell them. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like as soon as you say, oh, I like

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Speaker 1: your haircut, you can just believe that you do like

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Speaker 1: your hair just become self fulfilling prophecies, kind of like

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Speaker 1: the g p A study. And that's why lie detect

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Speaker 1: your tests aren't allowed in court, usually polygraph tests because

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Speaker 1: you know if you can. Those tests measure fear and

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Speaker 1: not truth. They measure your reaction to telling the law I,

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Speaker 1: not the lie itself. And because we humans are so

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Speaker 1: good at believing our own uh lies, you know you

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Speaker 1: don't have that fearful reaction necessarily when you're recounting whether

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Speaker 1: you know you lied to your mother or your father something. Moms,

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Speaker 1: by the way, the most frequently lied to group. Sorry moms,

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Speaker 1: but everybody's lying to you, it's true. This was from

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Speaker 1: a survey done by the Science Museum in London, and

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Speaker 1: the poll found that men supposedly lie more than women,

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Speaker 1: but again, women might have just been lying about how

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Speaker 1: much they lie, because men and women define lying differently.

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Speaker 1: Men tend to define lying as sheer, misstatement of fact,

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Speaker 1: pretty cut and dried, whereas women attach an emotional angle

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Speaker 1: to it. We tend to define lying is something as

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Speaker 1: a mistruth that hurts us, which is so weird when

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Speaker 1: you compare that to depoll those research about how women,

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Speaker 1: especially when they're talking with other women, tend to lie

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Speaker 1: more with other directed lies. It's like, when we are

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Speaker 1: telling the lie, we know that it's meant to protect

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Speaker 1: the other person, but when we're confronted with the fact

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Speaker 1: that someone has lied to us, it's a betrayal. And

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Speaker 1: I feel that it's a really interesting split. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're lying all the time to protect other people's feelings,

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Speaker 1: but we don't want our own feelings protected. I think

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Speaker 1: that's kind of bizarre. But to go back to this

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Speaker 1: um science music of London, I didn't want to throw

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Speaker 1: out a few of the lies that men and women

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Speaker 1: had in common, and those lots. The number one lie

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Speaker 1: that both men and women had in common was nothing's wrong,

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Speaker 1: I'm fine, We've all said that, we've all heard that.

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Speaker 1: One other wise that they had in common was it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that expensive. Both men and women would say that

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Speaker 1: I'm on the way, they weren't really on the way,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't have that much to drink. And according

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Speaker 1: to that whole British men lied to their partners most

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Speaker 1: often about their drinking habits. Something to our mind. Yes,

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Speaker 1: indeed another podcast topic. So with all of this uh

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Speaker 1: this lying research, I think we can we can tie

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Speaker 1: it up pretty pretty easily, saying that men and women

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Speaker 1: all lie, we're all we're all a bunch of liars.

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Speaker 1: Women do it a little bit differently. We especially tend

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Speaker 1: to lie to our girlfriends. Uh, and men and women

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Speaker 1: see lying and define lying a little bit differently. But

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Speaker 1: it's just really a problem. You know. We we demonize

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Speaker 1: lying so much, even though clearly it's part of everyday

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Speaker 1: social interactions with people. Yeah, they've they've said that people

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Speaker 1: who can't lie do not have good social lives because

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Speaker 1: being able to lie as part of having relationships. So

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Speaker 1: is are there such things as good lies? You know?

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Speaker 1: Do we need to kind of give give a little

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Speaker 1: white lies more of a break and give me a

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Speaker 1: happier name. Yeah? Maybe just like uh like m like

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Speaker 1: balloon words, like nice nuggets. I like that. Yeah, here's

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Speaker 1: a nugget for you. It's completely fake, but it's something

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Speaker 1: to tie you over until your hair grows up from

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Speaker 1: the god awful haircut. Yeah, if you've got better, better terminology,

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Speaker 1: you will take that in a listener emails. But we

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Speaker 1: want to know what you guys think about lying. The

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Speaker 1: biggest lie you've ever told? Is it all? It means?

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Speaker 1: It really all that bad that we're walking around lying

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Speaker 1: through our teeth constantly. Let us know your thoughts. Be

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Speaker 1: honest to email us. We won't we won't judge you,

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Speaker 1: and it's mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: All right, I've got a listener email here from Hannah

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Speaker 1: and she writes about our charity podcast. She writes, I

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Speaker 1: just finished listening to the Donation podcast and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to share a donation activity that I do with my friends.

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Speaker 1: Each month, we get together for a nice dinner out.

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Speaker 1: The person who picks the restaurant also picks a charity.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the meal, we all give five

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Speaker 1: to ten dollars to that person and they make the

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Speaker 1: actual donation after explaining what the charity is. That way,

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Speaker 1: each person makes a few donations a year to a

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Speaker 1: charity of their choice. A larger donation is made than

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Speaker 1: what one of us could have made on our own.

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Speaker 1: It's a small amount of money each month, and it's

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Speaker 1: a fun evening out with friends. It's been a great

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Speaker 1: way for all of us to actually donate rather than

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Speaker 1: just say we want to. This is an idea we

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Speaker 1: got from other friends who do something similar, and I'm

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Speaker 1: encourage anyone who wants to give to charity but doesn't

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Speaker 1: get around to it to give this a shot. Very

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Speaker 1: cool idea. I've got an email here from Kristen in Australia,

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Speaker 1: and this is in response to our podcast on the

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Speaker 1: G Spot. She writes, as a Type one diabetic, I

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Speaker 1: exercise daily, and now that it's summer in Australia, that

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Speaker 1: means a daily walk in the bush. Imagine me walking

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Speaker 1: through eucalyptus shaded paths, dodging wallabies and goannas my fearsome

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Speaker 1: hound just scared off a brown snake in my path.

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Speaker 1: And I'm laughing my head off because I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: the G spot podcast. And I laughed the loudest to

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Speaker 1: Kristen's closing line of and I forgot that I said

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Speaker 1: this morning. Every vagina is just a little bit special

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Speaker 1: and especially are Indeed that MNE reminded me of an

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Speaker 1: acronym use in Diabetes forum Land, which is why d

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Speaker 1: m V your diabetes may vary use in lines like, hey,

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Speaker 1: here's a tip you can use, try and see if

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Speaker 1: it works. But then again, why d m V apply

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Speaker 1: this to the G spot and you get y v

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Speaker 1: m V. Hey here's a tip that might help you

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Speaker 1: find your G spot, but again, you're vagina may vary.

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Speaker 1: I would like to see this in common use, Kristen.

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Speaker 1: I would like to see that in common use as well.

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Speaker 1: That is a fantastic idea. So if you have fantastic

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Speaker 1: ideas to send our way. Our email is mom Stuff

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Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. You can also follow

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Speaker 1: us on Twitter and like us on Facebook and new

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Speaker 1: comments over there if you'd like to. We also have

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Speaker 1: a blog that you can read during the week. It's

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Speaker 1: stuff One Ever told You, and you can find it

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Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. For moral, this, and

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Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: To learn more about the podcast, cook on the podcast

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Speaker 1: icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The

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Speaker 1: house stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it

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Speaker 1: today on iTunes, brought to you by the reinvented two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you