WEBVTT - Larry Mestel 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.800 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:16.440 My guest today is Larry Mstel, the founder and CEO 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:22.640 Primary Win. Thank you, Bob is primary way people ask 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.720 that question, Offen. That's why I asked, So, you know 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:30.320 we we we really are a marketing and branding company 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.720 that owns its own I P. But we call ourselves 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:37.920 a polished intellectual property music um. And uh you know, 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:40.440 we call ourselves a publishing company so that people kind 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:47.519 of have a better understanding of what historically, uh we do. Okay, 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:52.920 well what do you do? What do we do? Great question? So, um, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.720 you know, we distinguish ourselves from most publishers in that 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.080 we focus on things other publishers don't. So we have 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.200 a big brand marketing team. We've got a fourteen person 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.280 digital strategy team. I have a chief marketing officer who 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.839 has product managers. So I I started in the record business, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.200 and I was in the record business for uh you know, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:19.200 almost twenty years. Started Primary Wave, UM, and I started 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.319 it to be something different. I didn't know what a 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.959 publishing company was, what it was because you've been in 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.000 the music business, barely knew what like most record guys 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.319 barely knew what a publisher was, so I ran in 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.319 the publishing company like a record company. So we focused 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.199 on marketing and branding and driving opportunities instead of doing 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:42.000 what most publishers talk about artists, which is collecting and administrating. Okay, 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.200 let's go a little bit slower. Why do you decide 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.800 to do this? Ah? So? Uh you know. I started 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.880 at Island Records. I worked for Chris Blackwell for eleven years, 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:59.680 went to Arista Records when when Clive um Um started 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.200 jet L A Reading, I came in to run Arista 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.000 Records and with the Virgin Records, and I decided the 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.520 recorded music business, not the music business, but the record 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.520 of music business was going in the wrong direction. And 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.720 this was what year. This was in two thousand six. Okay, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.080 so napster to happen, the renaissance and revenues and not 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.839 gone back up. You thought it was bad because well, 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.480 piracy was running rampants, CDs were dropping like a rock. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.240 It was hard to mark, it was hard to break 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.000 acts um. But I had always had a little music 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.600 publishing company and a little marketing company contractually on the side. 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.560 I never really trusted the recorded music business. So okay, well, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.120 when did you start your little publishing marketing company. Well, 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.480 I started Primary Wave in two thousand six. But you 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.480 said you always had one of the side. There was 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.240 about six or seven years before. Um, I had been 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.880 investing in music copyrights, so I know, but the advent 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.400 of that is two thousand six. Uh, the advent of 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:02.440 primary Wave started. Okay? But in did you start around 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.359 somewh around two tho? Okay, this was just an idea 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:07.760 in the middle of the night. You're lying in bed 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.000 and you say, oh, this is what I should do. Yeah, okay, 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:12.920 did you do my best thinking in the shower? So 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.639 to me in the shower, I couldn't thank you. I 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.680 couldn't agree more. All my best ideas come in the shower. Absolutely, 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.800 It's like a bolt of lightning. Uh. And also all 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.840 your best ideas to come when you're doing something else. 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:29.160 But uh, okay, so you bought publishing assets? Did you 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.640 bought by copyrights? Were already generating revenue or up and 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.600 coming acts? What did you sign? Uh? Well? Early on 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.400 and again it was very this was side, that's right. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.920 So I was spending my time and then people would 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.960 bring me things and I, you know, sign little things okay, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.920 but these were I'm driving towards cash. How much of 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.000 a caspenditure? Very little? I mean it was in the 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.960 thousands of dollars. Okay, it was out of your own pocket. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.200 And what did you promise those people? Then? It wasn't 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.320 It wasn't the same thing as it was today. You know, 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.320 people were bringing the little involved. You come you buy 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.040 an asset for a thousand dollars other than collecting what 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.880 is your pitch? Well today there was no pitch then? Okay, 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.200 So why would some why would someone sell to you 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.120 because they needed money? Okay? That was literally the the 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.680 thousands you're here, that was satiating the client. Yeah, okay, 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.760 and you owned any of those assets? You own those assets, 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.279 Did any of them generating any significant revenue? No? Very little? 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.200 I mean I think if it was doing fifteen thousand 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.320 and a year in NPS, it was a lot. It 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.200 was varied to my audience. What that acronym is so 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.839 net publishers NPS net publishers here, it's like gross margin. Okay. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.240 So did you go to business school? I did? Where'd 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.760 you go? I went to the University of Massachusetts Amherst. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.719 I actually started uh graduate school at n y U, 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.640 and then I got the job with Chris Blackwell, and 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.320 I couldn't keep up with going to n y U. 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.360 So I I decided, you know what, much more interesting 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.720 working with Chris Blackwell than going to graduate school. Wait wait, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.720 but you were going to graduate school at n y 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.480 U at the time. You said at night, Okay, it's stern. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.120 So how does the Mherst fit into this? Well, that 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:22.120 was my undergraduate okay, but we'll get back to that. 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.760 So you're buying these assets, you're helping these people out. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.640 What happened? First people approached you and you said this 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.599 is a good idea, or you said this is what 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.200 I want to do and put the word out. Well, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:37.040 you know, I'm running record companies, right, So it wasn't 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.159 really the publishing thing was very on the side. It 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.719 was more of an investment than it was a company. 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:48.560 I was investing in certain assets, building a little portfolio. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.880 But it wasn't a It wasn't a business. I got you, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.159 So what flicks the flips the switch? In two thousand six, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.960 what flips the switch is? I was I was at 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.520 Virgin Records, and you know, I mean, I have to 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.560 say that it was a an interesting decision to leave 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.080 Arista or leave BMG at the time to go to 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.000 the Virgin. They had just announced, you know, Sony and 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.520 BMG were merging, and frankly, I I really didn't want 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.200 to stay during a merger. Alan Levy, who I used 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.919 to work for when I ran Island with Chris Blackwell, 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.280 asked me if I wanted to come over and run 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.440 Virgin Records with with mats a Letic and I said, 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.360 you know what, perfect timing. Uh. So I was at 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.600 Virgin for I think it was about a year and 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.000 a half and it was just Virgin was not exactly 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.880 um you know uh uh the uh the gem of 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:49.080 the music business at the time, and um it uh 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.279 you know, the record business was just going in the 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.920 wrong direction. CD sales were plumbering. Um and as I said, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.719 piracy was rampant and it was a very hard business. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:03.000 But the music in general was very vibrant. And as 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.280 I said, you know, I had been dabbling in music 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.520 publishing and I thought that that was it was still 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.040 a really good business at the time, and I took 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.120 a leap. I wanted to be a full time entrepreneur 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.000 and I got very lucky. I mean slower. What'd your 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.360 wife say? My wife fought always out of my mind. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.560 I had, you know, three kids, a little and she said, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.040 you can do what And I said, if I don't 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.920 do it now, I'm never going to do it. And 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.720 uh and uh, so I took the leap. It was, 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.160 you know, a long Leavy was was really fantastic to me. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.200 That was the last time you talked to him about 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:45.640 a year ago and I I'm not exactly sure, but 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.160 he was working with a technology company in the music space, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.040 advising them and we took a look at it to 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.280 see whether we wanted to invest in It was actually 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.000 business while you connected. Okay, so continue with the process 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.760 of moving on. Yeah. So so, um, you know I 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:08.520 have UH. I had some other business interests that allowed 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.200 a little bit of a little bit of cash flow 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.400 speak English, there's uh. There was a company that I 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.960 had invested in with a friend called Primary Way of 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:27.560 Media that had UH that owned eight hundred numbers and 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.240 toll free numbers and you know, literally like music publishing. 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:33.880 Well let's stop here for a second. When did you 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.280 start investing in Primary Wave Media? Oh my god, that 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.760 was back in the nineties, okay, And these were nine 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:46.800 hundred numbers or eight hundred very funny, Bob eight hundred numbers. 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:51.920 So home care one eight hundred, wireless one hundred move. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.960 Now what you were licensing? What was the business? Well, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.480 I invested in the company. I understand. What did the 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.200 company do? They were licensing numbers? Okay, and that was 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.360 a business. It was business. And it basically started up 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.880 with almost no cash and everybody did well exactly, and 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.720 and so you know, it's a cash flow. So I 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.120 had a little bit of a cushion and keep going. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:17.120 And so I decided in January two thousand six to 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:22.839 uh to UM to start Primary Way of Music. And 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.200 the the idea came from the fact that, um, you know, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:33.880 running large labels, nobody at labels really cared about iconic 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.720 and legendary music, a catalog. They were really interested in in, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.280 you know, signing and developing new artists for lots of reasons. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.120 Um you know, you hit a new artist big and 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.920 the margins phenomenal, and you know, catalog to everybody in 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.160 the music business or the record business boring, right, But 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.080 to me, it was exciting. So I said, you know what, 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.920 I want to go out and I want to start 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.680 a marketing and branding company that owned its own intellectual property, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.800 to partner with great artists to actually provide the marketing 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.199 services that they wouldn't get or couldn't get at their labels. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.520 So I got very lucky, um, externary lucky. I raised 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.720 in about a week. I raised about fifty million dollars. Okay, 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.360 but a little bit slower. You had the money from 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.400 Primary Wave Media. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.240 no no no, that's not what I'm saying. You had 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.960 some money from Primary Wave Media, so that I understand. 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.560 Did you roll primary Wave Media into primary wave Music? 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.480 Good question. No, completely was a completely separate and that 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.520 company today still still exists to that is called Good Friends. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.800 It's uh, I think it's still called Primary with Media. Okay, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.280 So how do you raise fifty million? Okay? So this 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.400 is this is a long story, and I haven't sold 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.800 many people, but I you know, and it's it's when 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.640 you hear this, you're gonna say, you're gonna back and say, 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:02.440 how did this company get that lucky? So um, So 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.520 let's start with the beginning. You want to start the company, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.760 how do you decide the number you need? I had 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:15.560 secured two acquisitions. I was partnering with Courtney Love on 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.040 the Kurt Cobain catalog, which I had an announced had 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.960 not announced, right, And I was buying a big chunk 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:28.880 of of what was formerly the MGM United Artists catalog 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.080 from E M I Music Publishing. Now, this is worth 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.280 soundtracks or things like a hard Day's Night that it 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.920 was in the heat of the night across a hundred 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.520 tenth streets Crown Affair, I mean amazing stuff that you 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.880 would love. Um. And so I had these two acquisitions, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.040 and it's to be clear, they would only close if 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.040 you got the money from somewhere. Correct. I thought I 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.480 had the money. Okay, So I had met a gentleman 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.760 that um that was going to partner with me. He 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.920 was gonna bout a hundred million dollars in the company. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.080 And long story short, But where did that person have 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.480 that money from? He was very wealthy. Did he make 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.800 the money or inherited? No? Well, I don't know, to 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.160 be honest. How did you know him? Well, I had 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.480 met him through an artist that was a friend of mine. 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.280 But I don't I don't really want to I don't 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:21.040 really want to go and time for anything. So the 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:26.120 guy pumped it on the investment and you were desperate. Well, well, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:32.280 he punted on the investment. After three months of conversation, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.480 diligence and um, it turns out that he wasn't a 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.200 good guy. And I decided a week before we were 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.280 supposed to close these transactions that I couldn't go into 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:50.319 business with this particular Okay, so you kicked him out? Correct? Correct? 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:56.719 And so he said what well he he Um, he 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.280 didn't say anything, to be honest, Well, how did you 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.400 tell him? I told him that I had a change 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:07.800 of heart and and basically given uh, you know, uh 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.880 my due diligence, I couldn't go into business with him, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.360 your due diligence into his him. Correct? Correct? So now 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.320 you indeed money? Right and and and so you know 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.960 I took a risk because I had a week to close. 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.199 And let's slow a little bit. Yeah, how did you 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:28.960 close Courtney Love before the money? Well, I don't mean 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.120 because before the How did you just close her? Well, 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.920 we didn't close. It was using the term too loosely. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.880 We had meetings. How did you convince her to make 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:44.160 a deal a and be with you? Okay? So, uh 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.720 so I convinced her because I told her the vision 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:50.800 of what I wanted to create. I didn't want to 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.200 create a publishing company that was an administration company, a 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:59.280 collection and a royalty organization. I wanted the vision was 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:05.079 to put real marketing executives, real branding executives, attach them 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:09.280 to these great songs, this amazing music, this fantastic artist 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:14.040 in brand and actually do organic real marketing. Okay, was 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.280 and I'll explain that. You explain that a minute. But 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.360 at the time, was it well known she wanted to sell. 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.800 We were introduced through her attorney at the time, John Branca, 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.440 and uh, and John liked our vision, and so she 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.600 was looking to make a deal. She was looking to 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.040 make a deal. She wanted uh you know, she wanted 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.840 to sell a piece. So we we bought of the 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.880 music publishing and became her partner. More importantly, um, you 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.280 know John had made the introduction and and and vouched 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.800 for the fact that you were legitimate. We were legitimate, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.880 we had the money, blah blah blah. But the reality 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:55.120 is you didn't have the We didn't have the money 0:14:51.720 --> 0:15:00.080 because I was your offer competitive. Yes, yes, if do 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.800 you have to pay a little bit more, Okay, because 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.760 to be honest, I think she took less from us 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.680 because of the vision of what we can do than 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.080 some of the other offers. So she did Okay, how 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.360 did you connect with Branca? I've known John for a 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.920 very very long time. I've done a lot of that deal. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.560 Now you need to find money. Now I need Well, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.640 I thought I had money when the deal. We get 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.840 to a week before we have to close, and now 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.360 I'm panicked. I have you know, there's I've I said 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:32.600 no to this investor. Good thing, but I have seven 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.800 days and this is a this is a true crazy story. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.400 So I have a week to close. So what's the 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.360 first thing I do? I am panicked. I'm not sleeping, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.680 I'm not eating, I'm you know, irritable. I mean, what 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:46.920 am I gonna do? Am I gonna come up with 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.720 all this money in a week? So I call a 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.320 friend of mine, Richard Fields, who is a managing director 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:56.440 at all and Company, and I said, Richard, here's the problem. 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.200 And he said, he said, to me, you a week. 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:00.960 You got a week to raise this money. It's never 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.040 gonna happen. I said, I know, but help. So so basically, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.200 Alan set me up with a lot of their clients 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.680 a lot of investors, a lot of I met, you know, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.280 Credit Swiss, I met Golden Tree, I met I mean, 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.040 you name it. I met almost everybody. Everybody I went 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.200 to said to me, you know what, we love this 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:25.280 idea of a new aged music publishing company that specializes 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.840 in marketing and branding and growing revenue and blah blah blah. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.160 But we need three months to close, we need four 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.640 months to go, we need five months to close. And 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.200 so after two or three days, you know, now four 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.600 days to close. After two or three days, I had 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.120 five or six term sheets, but they all said three months, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:43.920 four months, five months to club. It was the deal 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.800 you were offering. I wanted a fifty fifty partnership. I 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.960 wanted somebody to put in fifty or sixty million dollars. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.840 They get a preferred return, and we split fifty fifty, which, 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.040 by the way, with not market, and it was more 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:01.760 than better than market. Right. So so after three days, Bob, 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.320 this is crazy. Um, I'm I I had one more 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.639 meeting left, and I was exhausted, and sir, I was 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.399 not eating for days because I'm how am I going 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.439 to close? My reputation is going to be ruined if 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.400 I don't close, the company will be over before it starts. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.600 And UM and I get set up with our last meeting. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.960 And the reason I went to the meeting is because 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.440 this company said that they invested in media and entertainment. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:36.160 Media entertainment. Perfect, go take the meeting. So I show up. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.000 You know, I have my my marketing books and we're 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.159 sitting around the table. There were three guys and me 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.639 and I hand out the books and we're five minutes 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.840 into the meeting and it becomes clear to me these 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.520 guys have no idea what what music is, right, no 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:53.760 idea I mean that, and many fans of music they know. 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.280 They just their idea of investing in music and entertainment 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.639 was investing in cable companies, right, which has nothing to 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:05.720 do with you. Nothing. So I was so flustered. And 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.560 after you know, three or four days of meetings, I 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.000 get up, I shake their hands and said thank you 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.240 very much, and I leave and I leave the three 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.520 books on the conference room table. I don't even remember 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.040 to take them. So I go home and I'm sitting 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.359 at my kitchen table and I've got these, you know, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.000 five or six term sheets spread out. I'm thinking, Okay, 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.199 who am I going to focus on to try to 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.080 get this done in three days? Right? It's now I 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.200 have to close on on Monday. It's now Thursday or Friday. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.040 And my phone rings, and I will never forget this. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.440 My phone rings, and this guy says, Hey, this is 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.840 Joe bensive Anga. I'm with plain Field Asset Management. I 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.040 want to talk to you. So I said, Joe, I've 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.720 never heard of you. What can I do for you? Goes, well, 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.720 we want to invest in your company? And I said, 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:52.560 what do you mean you want to invest in my company? 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.680 Goes yeah, we heard you looking for money. We want 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.159 to go into music. We want to invest in you. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.680 You know, we heard you your your legitimate we we've 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.720 you know, know your background. Blah blah blah. Said you 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.600 gotta be kidding me. I said, I can't have another conversation, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.040 you know, spur of the moment. I've got six term 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.840 sheets or I gotta I gotta focus. Sorry, hang up. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.440 Right fifteen minutes later, I got another call back. He said, Larry, 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.360 this is Joe benzev Aga. Don't hang up. I want 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.960 to put you on the phone with Max Holmes, who's 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.520 the founder and chief investment officer of our company. I 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.960 want you to talk to him. So I listened to Max. 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.280 He goes, Larry, just tell me what you want. And 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.439 I said, I want a fifty fifty deal. I'll give 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.439 you a preferred return. I need fifty million dollars. But 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.840 here's to catch I gotta close and fun by monday. 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.680 And he goes, we could do that. I said, what 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.200 I said, hold it time out. How did you get 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.920 to me? How how did you find me? He goes, 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.000 did did you just take a meeting with so and so? 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.280 And I said yeah. He goes, well, we were the 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.280 meeting after you. They were late coming into our meeting. 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.040 We saw these books on the table. We thumbed through 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.720 the books. We put it in our briefcase. We left 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:05.639 the meeting to call you. So long story short, He said, Fat, 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.280 have your attorney facts over a term sheet and what 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.840 you want. We'll look it over, we'll sign it, we'll 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.080 fax it back to you today. You'll come in on Monday, 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.639 we'll do the paperwork and we'll fund the deal. And 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.320 I'm thinking, these guys are out of their mind. Is 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.080 you're never gonna happen? Right? So I call up my 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:25.639 attorney at Paul Hastings, and I said, Barry, here's what happened. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.280 He goes, this isn't gonna happen. He said, I know, 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:29.880 but do me a favorite. Just draft the term sheet 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.240 and send it to them. He drafted the term sheet, 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.600 he sent it to them, They tweaked it a little bit, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.400 they signed it, sent it back to me, and they said, 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:40.639 come in on Monday. We'll we'll have all the paperwork. Right. 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.560 I came in on Monday with Barry. We spent all 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.119 day there. We signed the deal. They funded Kurt Cobain 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.960 and they funded the MGM transaction and they put me 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.440 into business, and then I got it, and then later 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.720 on it kind of expanded. But it's it's an incredible 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.760 story because you know, people congratulate you, you know, and 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.840 years ago and starting the business and now it was 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:09.199 very lucky. Okay, who are these people? Plainfield? Okay, So 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:10.840 here's what happened, and and it turned out to be 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:15.560 even more fortuitous. Right, so the story gets it gets 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:22.320 even better. So so, uh, playing Field was started by 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.520 this guy, Max Holmes and Joe Ben Sevenga. They worked 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.840 I think they worked from Michael Milken back in the eighties. 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:30.679 They made a lot of money. They started this company, 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.639 Plainfield Ascent Management. They were incredible partners. They were great guys, 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.400 always lived up to their word and then so well 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.920 in two thousand six we started right two thousand and 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.840 eight nine the financial crisis hit. And you know, in 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.000 between two thousand and six and two thousand and eight, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.399 I bought you know, Kirk Cobain, Aerosmith, Hall and Oates, 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.600 earth Win than Fire, a piece of the beatles Lamont Dozier. 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.560 I mean, on and on. We were. We were rocking, 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.199 buying you know, amazing music UM and having success us 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.879 in marketing. Than the financial crisis hits and plane Field 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.200 and and later on Credit Swiss. A couple of months 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.960 later after the after the plane Field deal, Credit Swiss 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:16.240 came on board. UM. The financial crisis hits plane Field. 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.120 Like a lot of other hedge funds, you know, UM 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.800 have people with withdrawing capital. They ended up going out 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.880 of business, which was brutal because they were our equity 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.440 at the time. So we had this great company with 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.119 no investor come through thousand nine. We ended up buying 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:38.440 back our interest in the company from plane Field. So 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.320 where'd you get that money from? We we got it 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:46.320 from from the cashualty assets in essence, so we were 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.840 able to buy it back at a very very favorable 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:54.720 price because of less well less than less than par 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.879 let's say, um and so uh you know, it's it 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.600 was unfortunate because they were great people, great partners. I mean, 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.199 they were really fantastic guys. Um. And you know, the 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.800 crisis blew a lot of people out. So we had 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:13.320