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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Larry Mstel, the founder and CEO

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Speaker 1: Primary Win. Thank you, Bob is primary way people ask

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Speaker 1: that question, Offen. That's why I asked, So, you know

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Speaker 1: we we we really are a marketing and branding company

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Speaker 1: that owns its own I P. But we call ourselves

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Speaker 1: a polished intellectual property music um. And uh you know,

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Speaker 1: we call ourselves a publishing company so that people kind

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Speaker 1: of have a better understanding of what historically, uh we do. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well what do you do? What do we do? Great question? So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we distinguish ourselves from most publishers in that

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Speaker 1: we focus on things other publishers don't. So we have

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Speaker 1: a big brand marketing team. We've got a fourteen person

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Speaker 1: digital strategy team. I have a chief marketing officer who

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Speaker 1: has product managers. So I I started in the record business,

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Speaker 1: and I was in the record business for uh you know,

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Speaker 1: almost twenty years. Started Primary Wave, UM, and I started

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Speaker 1: it to be something different. I didn't know what a

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Speaker 1: publishing company was, what it was because you've been in

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Speaker 1: the music business, barely knew what like most record guys

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Speaker 1: barely knew what a publisher was, so I ran in

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Speaker 1: the publishing company like a record company. So we focused

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Speaker 1: on marketing and branding and driving opportunities instead of doing

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Speaker 1: what most publishers talk about artists, which is collecting and administrating. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go a little bit slower. Why do you decide

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Speaker 1: to do this? Ah? So? Uh you know. I started

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Speaker 1: at Island Records. I worked for Chris Blackwell for eleven years,

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Speaker 1: went to Arista Records when when Clive um Um started

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Speaker 1: jet L A Reading, I came in to run Arista

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Speaker 1: Records and with the Virgin Records, and I decided the

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Speaker 1: recorded music business, not the music business, but the record

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Speaker 1: of music business was going in the wrong direction. And

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Speaker 1: this was what year. This was in two thousand six. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so napster to happen, the renaissance and revenues and not

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Speaker 1: gone back up. You thought it was bad because well,

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Speaker 1: piracy was running rampants, CDs were dropping like a rock.

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Speaker 1: It was hard to mark, it was hard to break

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Speaker 1: acts um. But I had always had a little music

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Speaker 1: publishing company and a little marketing company contractually on the side.

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Speaker 1: I never really trusted the recorded music business. So okay, well,

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Speaker 1: when did you start your little publishing marketing company. Well,

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Speaker 1: I started Primary Wave in two thousand six. But you

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Speaker 1: said you always had one of the side. There was

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Speaker 1: about six or seven years before. Um, I had been

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Speaker 1: investing in music copyrights, so I know, but the advent

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Speaker 1: of that is two thousand six. Uh, the advent of

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Speaker 1: primary Wave started. Okay? But in did you start around

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Speaker 1: somewh around two tho? Okay, this was just an idea

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. You're lying in bed

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Speaker 1: and you say, oh, this is what I should do. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: did you do my best thinking in the shower? So

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Speaker 1: to me in the shower, I couldn't thank you. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. All my best ideas come in the shower. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: It's like a bolt of lightning. Uh. And also all

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Speaker 1: your best ideas to come when you're doing something else.

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Speaker 1: But uh, okay, so you bought publishing assets? Did you

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Speaker 1: bought by copyrights? Were already generating revenue or up and

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Speaker 1: coming acts? What did you sign? Uh? Well? Early on

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Speaker 1: and again it was very this was side, that's right.

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Speaker 1: So I was spending my time and then people would

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Speaker 1: bring me things and I, you know, sign little things okay,

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Speaker 1: but these were I'm driving towards cash. How much of

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Speaker 1: a caspenditure? Very little? I mean it was in the

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. Okay, it was out of your own pocket.

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Speaker 1: And what did you promise those people? Then? It wasn't

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Speaker 1: It wasn't the same thing as it was today. You know,

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Speaker 1: people were bringing the little involved. You come you buy

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Speaker 1: an asset for a thousand dollars other than collecting what

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Speaker 1: is your pitch? Well today there was no pitch then? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So why would some why would someone sell to you

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Speaker 1: because they needed money? Okay? That was literally the the

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Speaker 1: thousands you're here, that was satiating the client. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you owned any of those assets? You own those assets,

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Speaker 1: Did any of them generating any significant revenue? No? Very little?

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Speaker 1: I mean I think if it was doing fifteen thousand

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Speaker 1: and a year in NPS, it was a lot. It

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Speaker 1: was varied to my audience. What that acronym is so

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Speaker 1: net publishers NPS net publishers here, it's like gross margin. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So did you go to business school? I did? Where'd

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Speaker 1: you go? I went to the University of Massachusetts Amherst.

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Speaker 1: I actually started uh graduate school at n y U,

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Speaker 1: and then I got the job with Chris Blackwell, and

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Speaker 1: I couldn't keep up with going to n y U.

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Speaker 1: So I I decided, you know what, much more interesting

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Speaker 1: working with Chris Blackwell than going to graduate school. Wait wait,

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Speaker 1: but you were going to graduate school at n y

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Speaker 1: U at the time. You said at night, Okay, it's stern.

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Speaker 1: So how does the Mherst fit into this? Well, that

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Speaker 1: was my undergraduate okay, but we'll get back to that.

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Speaker 1: So you're buying these assets, you're helping these people out.

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Speaker 1: What happened? First people approached you and you said this

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Speaker 1: is a good idea, or you said this is what

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Speaker 1: I want to do and put the word out. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm running record companies, right, So it wasn't

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Speaker 1: really the publishing thing was very on the side. It

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Speaker 1: was more of an investment than it was a company.

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Speaker 1: I was investing in certain assets, building a little portfolio.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't a It wasn't a business. I got you,

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Speaker 1: So what flicks the flips the switch? In two thousand six,

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Speaker 1: what flips the switch is? I was I was at

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Speaker 1: Virgin Records, and you know, I mean, I have to

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Speaker 1: say that it was a an interesting decision to leave

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Speaker 1: Arista or leave BMG at the time to go to

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Speaker 1: the Virgin. They had just announced, you know, Sony and

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Speaker 1: BMG were merging, and frankly, I I really didn't want

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Speaker 1: to stay during a merger. Alan Levy, who I used

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Speaker 1: to work for when I ran Island with Chris Blackwell,

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Speaker 1: asked me if I wanted to come over and run

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Speaker 1: Virgin Records with with mats a Letic and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, perfect timing. Uh. So I was at

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Speaker 1: Virgin for I think it was about a year and

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Speaker 1: a half and it was just Virgin was not exactly

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Speaker 1: um you know uh uh the uh the gem of

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Speaker 1: the music business at the time, and um it uh

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Speaker 1: you know, the record business was just going in the

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Speaker 1: wrong direction. CD sales were plumbering. Um and as I said,

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Speaker 1: piracy was rampant and it was a very hard business.

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Speaker 1: But the music in general was very vibrant. And as

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, I had been dabbling in music

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Speaker 1: publishing and I thought that that was it was still

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Speaker 1: a really good business at the time, and I took

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Speaker 1: a leap. I wanted to be a full time entrepreneur

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Speaker 1: and I got very lucky. I mean slower. What'd your

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Speaker 1: wife say? My wife fought always out of my mind.

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Speaker 1: I had, you know, three kids, a little and she said,

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Speaker 1: you can do what And I said, if I don't

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Speaker 1: do it now, I'm never going to do it. And

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Speaker 1: uh and uh, so I took the leap. It was,

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Speaker 1: you know, a long Leavy was was really fantastic to me.

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Speaker 1: That was the last time you talked to him about

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Speaker 1: a year ago and I I'm not exactly sure, but

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Speaker 1: he was working with a technology company in the music space,

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Speaker 1: advising them and we took a look at it to

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Speaker 1: see whether we wanted to invest in It was actually

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Speaker 1: business while you connected. Okay, so continue with the process

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Speaker 1: of moving on. Yeah. So so, um, you know I

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Speaker 1: have UH. I had some other business interests that allowed

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit of cash flow

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Speaker 1: speak English, there's uh. There was a company that I

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Speaker 1: had invested in with a friend called Primary Way of

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Speaker 1: Media that had UH that owned eight hundred numbers and

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Speaker 1: toll free numbers and you know, literally like music publishing.

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Speaker 1: Well let's stop here for a second. When did you

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Speaker 1: start investing in Primary Wave Media? Oh my god, that

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Speaker 1: was back in the nineties, okay, And these were nine

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Speaker 1: hundred numbers or eight hundred very funny, Bob eight hundred numbers.

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Speaker 1: So home care one eight hundred, wireless one hundred move.

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Speaker 1: Now what you were licensing? What was the business? Well,

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Speaker 1: I invested in the company. I understand. What did the

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Speaker 1: company do? They were licensing numbers? Okay, and that was

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Speaker 1: a business. It was business. And it basically started up

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Speaker 1: with almost no cash and everybody did well exactly, and

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Speaker 1: and so you know, it's a cash flow. So I

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Speaker 1: had a little bit of a cushion and keep going.

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Speaker 1: And so I decided in January two thousand six to

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Speaker 1: uh to UM to start Primary Way of Music. And

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Speaker 1: the the idea came from the fact that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: running large labels, nobody at labels really cared about iconic

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Speaker 1: and legendary music, a catalog. They were really interested in in,

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Speaker 1: you know, signing and developing new artists for lots of reasons.

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Speaker 1: Um you know, you hit a new artist big and

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Speaker 1: the margins phenomenal, and you know, catalog to everybody in

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Speaker 1: the music business or the record business boring, right, But

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Speaker 1: to me, it was exciting. So I said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I want to go out and I want to start

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Speaker 1: a marketing and branding company that owned its own intellectual property,

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Speaker 1: to partner with great artists to actually provide the marketing

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Speaker 1: services that they wouldn't get or couldn't get at their labels.

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Speaker 1: So I got very lucky, um, externary lucky. I raised

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Speaker 1: in about a week. I raised about fifty million dollars. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but a little bit slower. You had the money from

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Speaker 1: Primary Wave Media. No, no, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no no, that's not what I'm saying. You had

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Speaker 1: some money from Primary Wave Media, so that I understand.

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Speaker 1: Did you roll primary Wave Media into primary wave Music?

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Speaker 1: Good question. No, completely was a completely separate and that

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Speaker 1: company today still still exists to that is called Good Friends.

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Speaker 1: It's uh, I think it's still called Primary with Media. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how do you raise fifty million? Okay? So this

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Speaker 1: is this is a long story, and I haven't sold

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Speaker 1: many people, but I you know, and it's it's when

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Speaker 1: you hear this, you're gonna say, you're gonna back and say,

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Speaker 1: how did this company get that lucky? So um, So

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Speaker 1: let's start with the beginning. You want to start the company,

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Speaker 1: how do you decide the number you need? I had

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Speaker 1: secured two acquisitions. I was partnering with Courtney Love on

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Speaker 1: the Kurt Cobain catalog, which I had an announced had

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Speaker 1: not announced, right, And I was buying a big chunk

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Speaker 1: of of what was formerly the MGM United Artists catalog

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Speaker 1: from E M I Music Publishing. Now, this is worth

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Speaker 1: soundtracks or things like a hard Day's Night that it

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Speaker 1: was in the heat of the night across a hundred

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Speaker 1: tenth streets Crown Affair, I mean amazing stuff that you

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Speaker 1: would love. Um. And so I had these two acquisitions,

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Speaker 1: and it's to be clear, they would only close if

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Speaker 1: you got the money from somewhere. Correct. I thought I

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Speaker 1: had the money. Okay, So I had met a gentleman

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Speaker 1: that um that was going to partner with me. He

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Speaker 1: was gonna bout a hundred million dollars in the company.

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Speaker 1: And long story short, But where did that person have

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Speaker 1: that money from? He was very wealthy. Did he make

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Speaker 1: the money or inherited? No? Well, I don't know, to

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Speaker 1: be honest. How did you know him? Well, I had

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Speaker 1: met him through an artist that was a friend of mine.

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Speaker 1: But I don't I don't really want to I don't

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Speaker 1: really want to go and time for anything. So the

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Speaker 1: guy pumped it on the investment and you were desperate. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: he punted on the investment. After three months of conversation,

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Speaker 1: diligence and um, it turns out that he wasn't a

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Speaker 1: good guy. And I decided a week before we were

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Speaker 1: supposed to close these transactions that I couldn't go into

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Speaker 1: business with this particular Okay, so you kicked him out? Correct? Correct?

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Speaker 1: And so he said what well he he Um, he

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Speaker 1: didn't say anything, to be honest, Well, how did you

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Speaker 1: tell him? I told him that I had a change

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Speaker 1: of heart and and basically given uh, you know, uh

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Speaker 1: my due diligence, I couldn't go into business with him,

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Speaker 1: your due diligence into his him. Correct? Correct? So now

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Speaker 1: you indeed money? Right and and and so you know

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Speaker 1: I took a risk because I had a week to close.

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Speaker 1: And let's slow a little bit. Yeah, how did you

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Speaker 1: close Courtney Love before the money? Well, I don't mean

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Speaker 1: because before the How did you just close her? Well,

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Speaker 1: we didn't close. It was using the term too loosely.

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Speaker 1: We had meetings. How did you convince her to make

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Speaker 1: a deal a and be with you? Okay? So, uh

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Speaker 1: so I convinced her because I told her the vision

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Speaker 1: of what I wanted to create. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: create a publishing company that was an administration company, a

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Speaker 1: collection and a royalty organization. I wanted the vision was

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Speaker 1: to put real marketing executives, real branding executives, attach them

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Speaker 1: to these great songs, this amazing music, this fantastic artist

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Speaker 1: in brand and actually do organic real marketing. Okay, was

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Speaker 1: and I'll explain that. You explain that a minute. But

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Speaker 1: at the time, was it well known she wanted to sell.

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Speaker 1: We were introduced through her attorney at the time, John Branca,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and John liked our vision, and so she

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Speaker 1: was looking to make a deal. She was looking to

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Speaker 1: make a deal. She wanted uh you know, she wanted

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Speaker 1: to sell a piece. So we we bought of the

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Speaker 1: music publishing and became her partner. More importantly, um, you

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Speaker 1: know John had made the introduction and and and vouched

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Speaker 1: for the fact that you were legitimate. We were legitimate,

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Speaker 1: we had the money, blah blah blah. But the reality

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Speaker 1: is you didn't have the We didn't have the money

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Speaker 1: because I was your offer competitive. Yes, yes, if do

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Speaker 1: you have to pay a little bit more, Okay, because

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Speaker 1: to be honest, I think she took less from us

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Speaker 1: because of the vision of what we can do than

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Speaker 1: some of the other offers. So she did Okay, how

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Speaker 1: did you connect with Branca? I've known John for a

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Speaker 1: very very long time. I've done a lot of that deal.

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Speaker 1: Now you need to find money. Now I need Well,

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Speaker 1: I thought I had money when the deal. We get

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Speaker 1: to a week before we have to close, and now

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Speaker 1: I'm panicked. I have you know, there's I've I said

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Speaker 1: no to this investor. Good thing, but I have seven

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Speaker 1: days and this is a this is a true crazy story.

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Speaker 1: So I have a week to close. So what's the

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Speaker 1: first thing I do? I am panicked. I'm not sleeping,

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Speaker 1: I'm not eating, I'm you know, irritable. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: am I gonna do? Am I gonna come up with

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Speaker 1: all this money in a week? So I call a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine, Richard Fields, who is a managing director

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Speaker 1: at all and Company, and I said, Richard, here's the problem.

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Speaker 1: And he said, he said, to me, you a week.

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Speaker 1: You got a week to raise this money. It's never

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. I said, I know, but help. So so basically,

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Speaker 1: Alan set me up with a lot of their clients

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Speaker 1: a lot of investors, a lot of I met, you know,

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Speaker 1: Credit Swiss, I met Golden Tree, I met I mean,

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Speaker 1: you name it. I met almost everybody. Everybody I went

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Speaker 1: to said to me, you know what, we love this

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Speaker 1: idea of a new aged music publishing company that specializes

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Speaker 1: in marketing and branding and growing revenue and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But we need three months to close, we need four

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Speaker 1: months to go, we need five months to close. And

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Speaker 1: so after two or three days, you know, now four

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Speaker 1: days to close. After two or three days, I had

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Speaker 1: five or six term sheets, but they all said three months,

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Speaker 1: four months, five months to club. It was the deal

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Speaker 1: you were offering. I wanted a fifty fifty partnership. I

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Speaker 1: wanted somebody to put in fifty or sixty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: They get a preferred return, and we split fifty fifty, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, with not market, and it was more

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Speaker 1: than better than market. Right. So so after three days, Bob,

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Speaker 1: this is crazy. Um, I'm I I had one more

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Speaker 1: meeting left, and I was exhausted, and sir, I was

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Speaker 1: not eating for days because I'm how am I going

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Speaker 1: to close? My reputation is going to be ruined if

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Speaker 1: I don't close, the company will be over before it starts.

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Speaker 1: And UM and I get set up with our last meeting.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I went to the meeting is because

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Speaker 1: this company said that they invested in media and entertainment.

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Speaker 1: Media entertainment. Perfect, go take the meeting. So I show up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have my my marketing books and we're

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Speaker 1: sitting around the table. There were three guys and me

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Speaker 1: and I hand out the books and we're five minutes

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Speaker 1: into the meeting and it becomes clear to me these

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Speaker 1: guys have no idea what what music is, right, no

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Speaker 1: idea I mean that, and many fans of music they know.

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Speaker 1: They just their idea of investing in music and entertainment

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Speaker 1: was investing in cable companies, right, which has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with you. Nothing. So I was so flustered. And

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Speaker 1: after you know, three or four days of meetings, I

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Speaker 1: get up, I shake their hands and said thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, and I leave and I leave the three

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Speaker 1: books on the conference room table. I don't even remember

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Speaker 1: to take them. So I go home and I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: at my kitchen table and I've got these, you know,

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Speaker 1: five or six term sheets spread out. I'm thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 1: who am I going to focus on to try to

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Speaker 1: get this done in three days? Right? It's now I

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Speaker 1: have to close on on Monday. It's now Thursday or Friday.

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Speaker 1: And my phone rings, and I will never forget this.

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Speaker 1: My phone rings, and this guy says, Hey, this is

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Speaker 1: Joe bensive Anga. I'm with plain Field Asset Management. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you. So I said, Joe, I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of you. What can I do for you? Goes, well,

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Speaker 1: we want to invest in your company? And I said,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean you want to invest in my company?

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Speaker 1: Goes yeah, we heard you looking for money. We want

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Speaker 1: to go into music. We want to invest in you.

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Speaker 1: You know, we heard you your your legitimate we we've

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Speaker 1: you know, know your background. Blah blah blah. Said you

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Speaker 1: gotta be kidding me. I said, I can't have another conversation,

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Speaker 1: you know, spur of the moment. I've got six term

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Speaker 1: sheets or I gotta I gotta focus. Sorry, hang up.

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Speaker 1: Right fifteen minutes later, I got another call back. He said, Larry,

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Speaker 1: this is Joe benzev Aga. Don't hang up. I want

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Speaker 1: to put you on the phone with Max Holmes, who's

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Speaker 1: the founder and chief investment officer of our company. I

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Speaker 1: want you to talk to him. So I listened to Max.

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Speaker 1: He goes, Larry, just tell me what you want. And

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Speaker 1: I said, I want a fifty fifty deal. I'll give

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Speaker 1: you a preferred return. I need fifty million dollars. But

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Speaker 1: here's to catch I gotta close and fun by monday.

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Speaker 1: And he goes, we could do that. I said, what

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Speaker 1: I said, hold it time out. How did you get

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Speaker 1: to me? How how did you find me? He goes,

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Speaker 1: did did you just take a meeting with so and so?

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Speaker 1: And I said yeah. He goes, well, we were the

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Speaker 1: meeting after you. They were late coming into our meeting.

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Speaker 1: We saw these books on the table. We thumbed through

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Speaker 1: the books. We put it in our briefcase. We left

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Speaker 1: the meeting to call you. So long story short, He said, Fat,

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Speaker 1: have your attorney facts over a term sheet and what

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Speaker 1: you want. We'll look it over, we'll sign it, we'll

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Speaker 1: fax it back to you today. You'll come in on Monday,

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Speaker 1: we'll do the paperwork and we'll fund the deal. And

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, these guys are out of their mind. Is

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Speaker 1: you're never gonna happen? Right? So I call up my

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Speaker 1: attorney at Paul Hastings, and I said, Barry, here's what happened.

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Speaker 1: He goes, this isn't gonna happen. He said, I know,

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Speaker 1: but do me a favorite. Just draft the term sheet

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Speaker 1: and send it to them. He drafted the term sheet,

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Speaker 1: he sent it to them, They tweaked it a little bit,

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Speaker 1: they signed it, sent it back to me, and they said,

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Speaker 1: come in on Monday. We'll we'll have all the paperwork. Right.

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Speaker 1: I came in on Monday with Barry. We spent all

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Speaker 1: day there. We signed the deal. They funded Kurt Cobain

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Speaker 1: and they funded the MGM transaction and they put me

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Speaker 1: into business, and then I got it, and then later

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Speaker 1: on it kind of expanded. But it's it's an incredible

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Speaker 1: story because you know, people congratulate you, you know, and

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Speaker 1: years ago and starting the business and now it was

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Speaker 1: very lucky. Okay, who are these people? Plainfield? Okay, So

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Speaker 1: here's what happened, and and it turned out to be

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Speaker 1: even more fortuitous. Right, so the story gets it gets

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Speaker 1: even better. So so, uh, playing Field was started by

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Speaker 1: this guy, Max Holmes and Joe Ben Sevenga. They worked

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Speaker 1: I think they worked from Michael Milken back in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: They made a lot of money. They started this company,

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Speaker 1: Plainfield Ascent Management. They were incredible partners. They were great guys,

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Speaker 1: always lived up to their word and then so well

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Speaker 1: in two thousand six we started right two thousand and

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00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: eight nine the financial crisis hit. And you know, in

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Speaker 1: between two thousand and six and two thousand and eight,

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00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: I bought you know, Kirk Cobain, Aerosmith, Hall and Oates,

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Speaker 1: earth Win than Fire, a piece of the beatles Lamont Dozier.

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Speaker 1: I mean, on and on. We were. We were rocking,

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Speaker 1: buying you know, amazing music UM and having success us

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Speaker 1: in marketing. Than the financial crisis hits and plane Field

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00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: and and later on Credit Swiss. A couple of months

385
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: later after the after the plane Field deal, Credit Swiss

386
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: came on board. UM. The financial crisis hits plane Field.

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00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 1: Like a lot of other hedge funds, you know, UM

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00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: have people with withdrawing capital. They ended up going out

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Speaker 1: of business, which was brutal because they were our equity

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00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: at the time. So we had this great company with

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00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: no investor come through thousand nine. We ended up buying

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00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: back our interest in the company from plane Field. So

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00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: where'd you get that money from? We we got it

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00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: from from the cashualty assets in essence, so we were

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Speaker 1: able to buy it back at a very very favorable

396
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: price because of less well less than less than par

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Speaker 1: let's say, um and so uh you know, it's it

398
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: was unfortunate because they were great people, great partners. I mean,

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00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: they were really fantastic guys. Um. And you know, the

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00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: crisis blew a lot of people out. So we had

401
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: this great company, great assets, no way to buy anything

402
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: more because um, you know, without the equity from Plainfield,

403
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: we couldn't draw in our senior facilities from Credit Swiss.

404
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: So we were in essence out of the acquisition business.

405
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: But you know, so is everybody else because of the

406
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: financial crisis. So we ended up starting uh you know,

407
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: we we had to figure out creative ways to expand

408
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: the business and expand their publishing because we couldn't acquire

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00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: so uh, we formed a brand marketing company. Um at

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00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: the time, how many people are working, I would say

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Speaker 1: about twenty. But then we kind of quickly expanded into

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Speaker 1: other things. So wait, as a result of the financial crisis, yes,

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Speaker 1: because we couldn't we didn't have money to acquire Faction

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00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, so two and we started a brand

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Speaker 1: marketing company. We started a digital marketing company. We got

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Speaker 1: into talent management all because we figured the more services

417
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Speaker 1: we had, the more attractive we would be to talent

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00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 1: Um and the ability to sign new acts. So we

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00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: started to sign new artists back in two thousand nine,

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00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: new artists to publish, to publish. Yeah, we signed the

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00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: Airborne Toxic Event and in Berlin and the New Boys

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Speaker 1: and you know artists like that. We were doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of co publishing deals. Okay, but you had to advance.

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00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: We had enough cash load to give them. Correct. We

425
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: had great cash flowing assets. We just didn't have million

426
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: dollars to go and buy. So you know, we were

427
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: chugging along organically growing UM. And by the way, it

428
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: turned out to be a really good thing because we

429
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: we expanded our vision of marketing and branding to provide

430
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: other services. So UM. You know that twenty people quickly

431
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: became you know, forty people, and we had a kind

432
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: of metamorphosis back in UM two thousand and fifteen or something.

433
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: Just one question, the only work assets you have a

434
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,239
Speaker 1: piece of or you also do admin deals. We do

435
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: some admin deals. But everything I mentioned to you we

436
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: had bought. But we we were we were admitting admitting

437
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: other catalogs as well because people wanted our marketing service

438
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: and we don't typically do it. We only do it

439
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: in the case of you know, iconic talent because otherwise,

440
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, the reality today we only have. You know,

441
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: we're one of the largest music companies in the world.

442
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: We only have fifteen thousand copyrights. Are competitors have three

443
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 1: or four million. So while we think we're good, we're

444
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: not saying we're any better than anybody else. And just

445
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: to be clear, we could just focus. What do you

446
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: do outside the US? Um? Well, we we have a

447
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: non exclusive admin deals with all the majors, so Universal

448
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: Sony Warner BMG called Ball. They administer for US royalty

449
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, payments, collection, copyright registration, but we market internationally.

450
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: So just so I understand, why would you need more

451
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: than one collector? Uh? Well, uh, for lots of reasons. UM. One,

452
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: If I'm buying a catalog like a Smokey Robinson for example,

453
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: and it's already it's Sony, makes sense to keep it

454
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: its own. If I'm buying Tom Cochrane from Universal Life,

455
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: so the highway, you know, I'm keeping it with University.

456
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: I got it much easier. Okay, so continue, you're you're

457
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: don't have the investment cash, you're broadening into these other services. Yeah,

458
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: so we we build our management company, so you know,

459
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: we manage Melissa Ethridge and Fantasia and built everything from scratcher.

460
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: Everything from scratch. Everything from scratch was Melissa Ethridge with

461
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: Winston Simony forever. No, who is she with? She with

462
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: Bill Ypold, That's what I meant, Bill, Leopold, Billy Poel.

463
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: I know, Hi when I was ronning Island that I

464
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: don't know every deal she left Leopold to come to you. Yeah,

465
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: there was a little interm you know, the time when

466
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: she left Bill and when she came with us. But yes,

467
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: in essences, what other established artists did you then manage

468
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: your work with um Cypress Hill, uh c Lo Green, Fantasia,

469
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: Eric Binet. Okay, continue, you know so but the main

470
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: the big business was the i P the music rights business.

471
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: And so we had this kind of metamorphosis Bob in

472
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen that we said, you know what, we

473
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: want to now get back into in a big way

474
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 1: building this business through acquisition. So for essentially half a decade,

475
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: you didn't buy anything correct. But you know, the the

476
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: financial crisis lasted a long time and has a big

477
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: effect unavailable money and interest. Um. You know, um um

478
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: just you know it was people didn't really um get

479
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: why one would invest in music, um, given the fact

480
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: that streaming and all that you know that hadn't hadn't

481
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: hit yet. And in two thousand fifteen, Um, I had

482
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: a friend in my building in New York where I

483
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: where I lived, and he was in the fund business,

484
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: and I was coming out of the gym and he

485
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: was coming in on the first floor. I was coming

486
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: up from the basement and I ran into him and

487
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: I said, Bill, um, you know a long time to

488
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: see how you're doing. So, you know, I've been thinking

489
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: about starting a music fund, changing my company, converting it

490
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: from a you know, a balance sheet based business to

491
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: a to a to a fund business. And Bob, you

492
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: gotta remember when I started in two thousand and six,

493
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: I ran record companies. I had no idea the difference

494
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: between a bank, a hedge fund and investment bank you

495
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: know commercial I had, you know, a venture cap. I

496
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: had no idea to me, they were all banks. Two

497
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, I had a little bit better, well not sophisticated,

498
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: but I had a little bit better of an idea

499
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: of the difference between these. So I said, Bill, I

500
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: want to start a music fund and I know you're

501
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: in the fun business because you know what great timing.

502
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: I just left where I was. I'm thinking about what

503
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: I want to do. Let's have a conversation. So you

504
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: wanted to start a fund business or he did. I

505
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: wanted to start a fund music fund business because you know,

506
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: people have friends have told me about their businesses, and

507
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: it sounded like a really efficient way to buy these

508
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: amazing properties without having to go to banks to borrow money,

509
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: because you know, borrowing money is the idea. Did you

510
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: have a number in your head? Yeah, which was what. Yeah,

511
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: I thought I'd raise a hundred hundred million dollars this friend.

512
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: You essentially pitched him. I did, and he said okay,

513
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, I'm I'm I'm changing. I'm changing.

514
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: Good timing. So, uh, we spent a couple of hours

515
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: a few weeks later, and he said, you know, wow,

516
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys have really built something interesting and

517
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: nobody's really doing this. Um, you know, let's see maybe

518
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: it'll you know, maybe I could put something together that

519
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: could tell a story. So so we agreed to do that,

520
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: and you know, uh, roll forward. We started in about

521
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: early two thousand and sixteen to spring of two thousand

522
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: and sixteen. We put this plan together. We went out

523
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: and it took us. It took us eighteen months, but

524
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: we raised our first three million dollars and okay, what

525
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: were the terms there? Very different. It's a it's a

526
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: it's a it's a fun structure. Okay. So it's such

527
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: that you take your man and and and a and

528
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: a carry on and then how long is there money?

529
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: In a long time. It's a very very long term

530
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: fund and and um, you know it's it's no guarantees,

531
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: no no, uh no guarantees that people give the money.

532
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: Theoretically you could take it down to zero no penalty,

533
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: no no, no. We maybe you could. You could spend

534
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: all the money and lose all the money and they

535
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: have no uh theory. Course, but that's an investment. Yeah.

536
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: So so it took us eighteen months we raised the

537
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: three million. How many entities A bunch of entities, but

538
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: six big institutions. Um, how small was the smallest investor?

539
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: The smallest investor I think was five hundred thousand, and

540
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: the largest there was was seventy five. So there are

541
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: some people who are individuals who were in the yeah,

542
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: yeah whatever, yeah, yes, Um, so how many investors all told?

543
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: I think in fun one, Uh, there's something like there

544
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: was this twenty around twenty investors are so uh And

545
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: obviously we had to put in a lot of money ourselves,

546
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: other people to put money on. Um. That goes without

547
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: saying so just to be clear, you put in personal money,

548
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: you put primary wave money, yeah, in personalized so yeah.

549
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: So it took us about eighteen months we raised that money.

550
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: And while we were doing that, we were in the

551
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: process of acquiring we bought Smokey Robinson. The money you

552
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: were using to do that was what fund. So even

553
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: though the fund wasn't full, you were. We have different closings,

554
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: so we had a clothe We had a couple of closings.

555
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: We you know, eighteen months later we closed. So it

556
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: took us eighteen months to raise our first three d

557
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: million dollars. And I think our investors are ecstatic by

558
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: the properties that we've acquired in fun one. So what

559
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: were those properties? It was Smokey Robinson, it was Steve Cropper,

560
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: it was the great Glenn Gould, you know, the great

561
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: classical pianist. It was Tom Cochrane, Brenda Russell. Are these all?

562
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: Are these all fifty fifty deals? These are a hundred

563
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: percent deal? No, let me, I'll explain. So okay, so

564
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: let's then let's take a side. So our our business

565
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: proposition is very different than most most guys in the

566
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: publishing business. They don't care. They want to buy as

567
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: much as they can. They want to buy people out,

568
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: be done with them and then hold them right. That's

569
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: not our model. Our model is to partner with the artists,

570
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: the writer, the air. So you know, we'll buy fifty

571
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: of a catalog or the catalog I mean, in the

572
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: case of Glenn Gould, where there was no air, the

573
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: trustee was he was going to sell a hundred percent

574
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: or nothing. So yes, we bought a dred percent of

575
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 1: the Glenn Gould estate. But we partner because we know

576
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: we'll never know the as much as we're music fans

577
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: and we love the music. Because we only buy what

578
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: we love, we'll never know the artist of the catalog

579
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: as well as the artist will or the air. And

580
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: if you're marketing, if you're truly marketing. You really want

581
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: the help and the participation of the artist, so you know,

582
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: to have the little skin in the game and to

583
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, be aligned. We want artist to keep I'm

584
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: gonna stop you for one second before we get back

585
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: to the funds. Many of the entities who have let's

586
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: just call them startups, they've signed all these assets and

587
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: ultimately they've sold to someone else. Yeah, what is endgame

588
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: for primary waves? Well, the the endgame for primary wave

589
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: is I think a little different than most people. You know, BMG.

590
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: Back in the day they were buying up all these

591
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: independence to try to you know, build up as much

592
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: market share as they can. We're not about market share.

593
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: We're about quality. So I want no different questions. I know,

594
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: I know you're getting so to us. Uh, it's not

595
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: the same endgame. You know. People say, oh, you know,

596
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: they've been telling me for fourteen years, you're gonna flip,

597
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: You're gonna flip, You're gonna flip. You canna flip. Oh

598
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: my god, and you're giving me a headache. Stop with

599
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: the flip. The idea is to build legacy, and so

600
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: we've been in business a very long time. Legacy for

601
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: the actor, legacy for the company. Well, actually you know both.

602
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: It's it's too in hance the legacy of the artist,

603
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: Like we just bought Donnie Hathaway's music last week and

604
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: and uh and you know the Cranberries this week. Um

605
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: Our our thing is we want to build the legacies

606
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: of the acts, and we're building the legacy and the

607
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: brand the primary wave as well, because the more successful

608
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: our artists are, the better that we do for our artists.

609
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: The more opportunities we bring, the more they're going to

610
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: enjoy the company. And our best references are Smokey Robinson

611
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: and Paul Anka and the Whitney Houston Estate and Steve

612
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: Cropper and the Marley family. I mean, those are our references.

613
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: That's how we get deals. Um. So when I say

614
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: enhance our legacy or build our brand, it's do enhancing

615
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: what we do as in partnership with the artists, which

616
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: is unusual. That's not normal in the record business. So

617
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: we have a very long term perspective. Um. Anybody that

618
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: says they know what's going to happen five years or

619
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: ten years down the road, I think it's full of ship. Okay,

620
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: but let's go back to the and there was fun

621
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: one that would imply there's more than one fund. Yes,

622
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: so so it took us eighteen months to raise the

623
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: three hundred million or first three hundred million, um and

624
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: um and uh so uh we quickly invested, you know,

625
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: within the first year, and it took us eighteen months.

626
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: And we spent and we we did we we spent

627
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: it on phenomenal artists. Um. You know there are many

628
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: more in there that I haven't even meant, like, you

629
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: know sly Stones, you know writer's share and U um,

630
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, I mean everything we buy is is great. Um.

631
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: It took us thirty days to raise our next five

632
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: so fun to Okay, just so I know, I invest

633
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: in fund one. Yeah, at what point can I cash out? Well,

634
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a it's a fun structure, right,

635
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: so there's a you know, it's it's in excess. The

636
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: life is in excess of ten years. Right. But you

637
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: know there are um, you know, there are multiple potential opportunity.

638
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: We could go public, We could turn it into a

639
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: permanent capital structure. We go there are a lot of Uh's,

640
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: assume the fund is ten years and you don't do

641
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: anything of those things, then I theoretically could take money

642
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: money out. Uh, well, there's there are extensions off of that,

643
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: so it's okay, I'm it could go longer. I mean

644
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: it's structure. I can't get the money out essentially. Okay,

645
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: So it takes at some point in time. I understand.

646
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: I understand, But for most people, I'm not that sophisticated

647
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: people listening or not as sophisticated as you are. Okay,

648
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: So how much in fun too? We raised h five

649
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: hundred million in fun too. So and there are some

650
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: side vehicles as well. So we have about a billion

651
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: dollars of cash and assets under management, and um, you

652
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: know that's that's uh, you know, expanding. So you're continuing

653
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: to raise money, Well, we're we're continuing to do deals.

654
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: So we're not we're not in the fundraising mode right

655
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: now because we have you know, we have so much

656
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: cash and assets there. You have the cash, you can

657
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: buy assets. Correct, everyone looks towards the future. Now there's

658
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: a limited number of assets out there. At some point

659
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: do you start expanding into other fields other assets? Um, well,

660
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: for certainly for the first billion dollars of assets we have,

661
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: we're very very focused. Bob, I have probably three million

662
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: dollars of deals in the party, all of which you

663
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: would know, all of which you would say, wow, I

664
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: love that artist. I mean, knowing your taste and music,

665
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: I love those artists. Um uh so you know, we

666
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: we think that the markets don't forget that. The the

667
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: the um, the opportunity isn't just music publishing, right. The

668
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: opportunity now for us is is music publishing. It's masters,

669
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: it's master royalties. That was my writers share it. That

670
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: was my question. We bought Bob Ezrin's music. So when

671
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: we bought Bob, we bought his publishing, We bought his

672
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: writers share, We brought his producer royalties on the wall.

673
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: You know, we partnered with him on all of that,

674
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: but not another fifty or so odd deal because you

675
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: want Bob involved, right or wrong, we want Bob involved.

676
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: So he still has an ownership share. Uh he well,

677
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: he Bob does not. That's that's a that's an unusual one.

678
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: You know, I would say of the artists, you know,

679
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: whether it's Bob publishing. Uh where other than the cash

680
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: you gave him in that deal, where is his future

681
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: income based on those rights coming from? If at all

682
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: say that again, you you pay Bob the money. Okay,

683
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: you exploit the assets. Does he ever get another dollar?

684
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: Not on what he sold us? So what in this

685
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: particular case your model of developing and expanding and marketing

686
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: would be to the benefit of the company and his name. Okay,

687
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: what percentage of the of the deals are out? I

688
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: would say at most, at most I come. So the

689
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: ones that come to mind are Bob Ezrin and um

690
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: bob Ezrin and Glenn Gould. Okay, but you know, like

691
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: an example of Whitney use in the state we bought.

692
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, are you pursuing people who are looking to

693
00:40:54,200 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: sell or you're looking to people and convincing them to sell. Well,

694
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So, okay, there's there we know on the inside,

695
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 1: it's in the air, who's looking to make a deal. Yeah,

696
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: that's one level. Yeah, then there are other people. You say,

697
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: I know that person. Well, here's the thing. We we

698
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: don't buy the same way that other music publishers do.

699
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: Most music publishers are buying an auction, right, so somebody's

700
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: shopping a deal. If somebody comes to me and says, hey,

701
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm shopping this deal, my first question is, are we

702
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: the only ones you're shopping it? Too, or you're shopping

703
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: at to ten other people. And if they say we're

704
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: shopping it to a lot of people, I say, I'm

705
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: not interested at all, because our model works when an

706
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: artist wants our partnership, when they need the ability to brand,

707
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: when they need when they have no idea what's going

708
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: on with social media or e commerce, or or you know,

709
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: their website needs complete overhaul, or they want marketing they

710
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: want to be if you make a Sinc Deal or whatever,

711
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: is everything split based on the ownership percentages of absolutely

712
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: so so almost every deal we've done, and we have

713
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: done I think we bought something like forty catalogs in

714
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: the last three years. As for example, Um, maybe we

715
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: participated in one or two auctions. Okay, but as I say,

716
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: let's say we can sit here, you and we can

717
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: argue over not are we can discuss who still owns

718
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: their catalog from that right? Would you then give them

719
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: a ring or wait for their representatives to ring you? No? No, no,

720
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: we're you know we are. We are constantly outreaching. Our

721
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: artists are calling us and say, hey, uh, you know,

722
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 1: we've got a friend who so and so who would

723
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: love to do the same type of deal. We did,

724
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: would you like to talk to them? That's how we

725
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: do our best business when our artists are our references,

726
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's how we've done most of

727
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: our deals. Okay, So there's the traditional publishing money. Yeah,

728
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: and every asset is different. But if the uh, let's

729
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: just say the publishing asset in the year UH renders

730
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: ten x, how much of that is Okay, let's say

731
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: ten x just for um regular traditional collection. How much

732
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: do you generate in addition to that for that asset? Okay,

733
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: that's the great question. You know, every every catalog is different.

734
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: Of course, every catalog is different. But um, you know

735
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: um u for uh you know, for an artist like

736
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: Glenn Gould, right or Melissa Ethridge as an example, who

737
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: you know had virtually no social media, no uh no

738
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: one pushing them digitally. Um, it could be very significant.

739
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: Well you know, how does that that can how does

740
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: that turn into cash? Well, it turns into cash because

741
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: we're pitching the DSPs, so you know, we're you know,

742
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: Glenn Gould was was up on a few playlists and

743
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 1: now he's up on a hundred playlists. You know, you're

744
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: streaming more. Okay, so you were also working the streaming company.

745
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, absolutely have a We have a play We're

746
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: very different than you can't think of us as a

747
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: music publisher. We have a playlist. Okay, just to flip

748
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: it over, Yeah, what makes you different from a label?

749
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 1: I mean obviously your own difference. Yeah, yeah, sure. Well

750
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: the big difference with a label is they've got a

751
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: whole radio promotion team. Um. And uh, and there's a

752
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: there is a different type of infrastructure where we overlap

753
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: is you know, we have an entire team of marketing

754
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: product managers. We have an entire team of digital project managers. UM.

755
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: Labels now have brands, brand teams. UM. Publishers don't. So

756
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,959
Speaker 1: I don't know if another publisher has an entire brand

757
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: team and a fourteen person digital team and has product managers. Okay,

758
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: so they call it, by the way, publishers call marketing synchronization.

759
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: I call marketing marketing synchronization is licensing. I have an

760
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: entire sync team of a lot of people. Okay, So

761
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: just okay, how many people work for Primary Wave today?

762
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: We have seventy today. How many product managers are there?

763
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: There are five product managers? Okay, At what point do

764
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: you just keep increasing head count commensurate with your acquisition

765
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: or do you say at some point it becomes unwieldy. Um, well,

766
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: that's a great question, um, And and our investors ask

767
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: us that question. That's I mean, that's that's exactly what

768
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: you should be asking as an investor. And the reality

769
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: is we have a lot of um, you know, excess

770
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: capacity because again, if you look at our company, we've

771
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: got we've got a much bigger creative marketing team, I

772
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: think than any other publisher. And we're competing with guys

773
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: that have three or four million songs. We only have

774
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand. We're never gonna have a million. We're never

775
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: gonna have five thousand. Were likely never gonna have two

776
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand. So you know, I buy, I

777
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: buy four or five catalogs more. I need a product manager. Okay,

778
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: But just to nail it down, what is the number

779
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: where you say stop? Um? To be honest, I don't.

780
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to get to us stop

781
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: because you know, if we have uh, let's say thirty

782
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: five catalogs now thirty thirty, you know, it's hard to

783
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: keep track the number. UM. So aw ma, it would

784
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: be too many catalogs. You have thirty, Let's say you

785
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: have a hundred. Could you have five hundred? We could

786
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: probably have. We could probably have two hundred fifty. Okay,

787
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: and after that point the TLC would be in question.

788
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: But we we wouldn't get there. Okay, let's just assume

789
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: use an example. I'm not on to present, sure, but

790
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: let's just assume for the sake of discussion, Steven Still's

791
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: own of his publishing and I'm Steven Stills pitched me Stephen.

792
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: First of all, we are fans, love his music, um,

793
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: but we think we can do for you what your

794
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: historical publishers have never done for you. And frankly, my

795
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: guess is you don't have a strong relationship with your publisher.

796
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: My guess is your publishers never brought you brand ideas,

797
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: never worked on your name and likeness before. They've probably

798
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: done a great job at collecting, They've probably done a

799
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: great job of register But I'm seventies something, I certainly

800
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: have children, and I like you know, there's certain amount

801
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 1: of revenue, But are people really still interested in me? Well,

802
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: we think they are, and we think the reason there there.

803
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: They may not be as interested today as they were before.

804
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: Is because there's no marketing money being spent on you.

805
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: Record labels are not spending the same amount of money

806
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: on you today that they were twenty five years ago. Okay,

807
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: But then there are people who say, I think of

808
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: all the acts from the seventies have been essentially forgotten. Okay,

809
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: And I come from an era a little bit before that,

810
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: a little bit after that, and people would say, you know,

811
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: Paul Simon says, every generation puts a hero on the

812
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: pop chart, you know, as my time just done. I mean, yes,

813
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: you know we talked about classic acts. Well, your time

814
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: is done for top forty radio. Okay, But I'm actually

815
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: has a slightly different question. You know, six of live

816
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: business is legacy acts. There's a prediction and then in

817
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: ten years a lot of those acts will either be

818
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 1: dead or retired. Well, how how are you gonna make

819
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: younger people interested in me still? Stephen Stills? By reintroducing

820
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 1: you to a new youth culture. What we're doing now

821
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: is we're working with Paul Anka to re release Puppy Love.

822
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: For with a pop culture artist, it's reconstituting a smokey

823
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: Robinson song like My Girl and creating something sy thematic. Okay,

824
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: those those are great songs. But that but that's how

825
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: you intreating about rock artist. And although I have some

826
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: legendary songs, a lot of them are we we call records. Yeah, okay,

827
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: and you know I'm savvy enough to know that we

828
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: live in a hip hop world. Is there room for me? Absolutely?

829
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: There's absolute room for you. You know, look what we

830
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 1: did with Kirk Cobain, I mean, perfect example. Kert Cobain

831
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: is twenty five years younger than me and iconic in

832
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: a way that I don't seem to be. So can

833
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: you talk about somebody from my generation sixties seventies success. Yeah, well,

834
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: you know, look at look at Smoky. I mean I

835
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: don't know a rock artist, a rock artist. Um, I'm

836
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: trying to think who we have that's uh Um. I

837
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: don't know that we have anybody directly to compare. Okay,

838
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: you don't have the Okay, So you know I don't

839
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: write the songs like I haven't written the kind of

840
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 1: songs that pop artists are going to cover. Yeah, people

841
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: want to hear those songs by me. Okay, but but

842
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: but think about it, there there are I mean, you know,

843
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: a perfect example. We're we're going to an event tonight.

844
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: We got Smokey Robinson a line of Shinola watches. We

845
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: created Bam Bob. You're gonna laugh at this. So as

846
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: part of Smokey's original pitch, when we pitched, Smokey came

847
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: to our office and he was deciding, you know, do I,

848
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: you know, go talk to Sony or do I come

849
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: to Primary one. He's not talking to anybody else. And

850
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: we prepared a forty page pitch book on what we

851
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: can do for Smokey Robinson like we would do for

852
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 1: for Stephen Okay, forty page pitch book. He was flipping

853
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: through the book saying, Wow, I love that. I love that.

854
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: I love that. And then he got to a page

855
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: and he said he looked at me, and he looked

856
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: at my head of marketing, Adam Loanberke, and he goes,

857
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: you guys are of ship. I go, what do you mean?

858
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: He goes, You're never going to do this, which was

859
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: what which was to create a national holiday for Smoky. Right. See,

860
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: I knew you'd left, all right, so what do we do?

861
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: We took that, you know, we we took that at

862
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: the heart and we said, Smokey, we'll see you in

863
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: a year. Okay, on this, on this pitch, and we

864
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: went to American Greetings, and American Greetings love this idea.

865
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: Adam and the marketing team pitched them on Smokey Robinson's

866
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: Father Daughter Day and the theme song would be My Girl. Okay,

867
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: American Greetings loved it. The second Sunday of every October,

868
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: starting a year ago, right forever more is smoking his

869
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 1: Father Daughter Day. The cards all are my Girl. I mean,

870
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: it's my Girl Holiday. And Smoky now goes on the

871
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: golf course and can tell his buddies he's the only

872
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: artist he knows that has a national holiday. That's the stuff.

873
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a small example, but that's the stuff

874
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: that like my Girl will uh will last beyond Smokey's life. Okay.

875
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: Do you believe the music of the sixties and seventies

876
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: by rock artists will last beyond their lives and their audiences?

877
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean, personally I do. Because here's the thing. If

878
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: the songs are great, If the songs are great, they

879
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: will live in infamy. Let's pitch, okay, And if they're

880
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: not great, you're absolutely right, they're gonna fade away. And

881
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: the reality is we're not interested in the B level

882
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: songs that aren't great. We are only buying and only

883
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 1: interested in the things we can market. And we love

884
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac has had a huge renaissance. Absolutely Fleetwood Mac.

885
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: I would view a lot of those as records more

886
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: than songs. They're they're totally you know, there's a hem ful.

887
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,479
Speaker 1: You want to help me try to get Stevie Nicks

888
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: because I would love that. I would. I would appreciate

889
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: Stevy Nicks is with Irving, you know, good luck. By

890
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: the way, I almost had Howard cough in there at

891
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: one almost almost we met with Stevie. Howard was a

892
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 1: good friend and uh and uh, you know, I think

893
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: Howard was too good a manager. So he was making her.

894
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: He was making her a lot of money. Okay, so

895
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: we've sort of covered that, so as we go forward, Yeah, okay, okay,

896
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: all your management companies also have their publishing with the

897
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: management company. Clients have their publishing with primary ways, not

898
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: all some um you know melissas Athas does it would

899
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: be the pitch to be managed by well, well, well

900
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: it's you know, Church and State. It's not you know,

901
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: we don't we don't pitch come to us for management.

902
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 1: But but you know a lot of times the the artists, uh,

903
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: the artists trust us and we basically do it at

904
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: a at an insignificant feed because it's management. I think

905
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: we've covered where we are today. So and this is

906
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: why businesses think ten years from now, is it still publishing?

907
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: Or what else do you own? Or what else other markets?

908
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: We're just blue sky. I'm not well. We we're we're

909
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: doing both publishing, master's, artist royalties. Um, we're We're going

910
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 1: to announce a deal next week where we bought a

911
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:18,240
Speaker 1: legendary eighties acts publishing and artist royalties, um and master recordings. Um.

912
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: You know Tom Cochrane, great example. Excuse me? We um,

913
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: we bought Tom Crochran's Tom Cochran's publishing for when he

914
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: was solo act and red writer and Life is a

915
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: Highway is his crown jewels? Right? So what do we do?

916
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: We said a day after we bought it. I said, Tom,

917
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: do you sound like you did, you know, back when

918
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: you recorded Life Highway? He says, Oh my god, I

919
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: sound exactly the same. Now we had tried, you know,

920
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 1: we re records are are an important part of the business.

921
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: Not every artist in their sixties and seventies called those

922
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: don't although he's a little younger Tom. Tom goes in

923
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: the studio a week after we buy it and he says,

924
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm sending you the re I'm sending you a re record,

925
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: and you know, we're we're sitting around, we're thinking, you know,

926
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: will this be good or not? And Bob we a

927
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: beat it. I could not tell the difference between the original.

928
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: So now when we licensed Tom's music, we're licensing the

929
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: master recording the Tom re recorded as well. So so

930
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 1: that's a part of our business. Okay, But projecting, you're

931
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: projecting any other things happening in the ensuing five ten years. Well,

932
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: we're we're looking at a record label right now. Class

933
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait yeah, buying a record label or starting

934
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: a record No, no, no, no buying buying You have

935
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: to be out of your mind to start a record label. Okay.

936
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: Are you buying a record company with dormant uh acts,

937
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing. Well, we're buying where we're where.

938
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: We're buying a label with historically fantastic master. Okay, so

939
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: this is not something that you're going to work as

940
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: contemporary music, not con and you would not want to

941
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: be in that. I do not want to be in

942
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: the contemporary recorded music business unless there was some very

943
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: compelling reason having having a big attachment to that being publishing.

944
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: Unless it was a compelling reason to do so. I

945
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't rule out signing an act for publishing that turns

946
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: into a fantastic master that we say, you know what,

947
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: we're going to help you put this out. I won't.

948
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: We wouldn't say opportunity, but we're not. We're not starting

949
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: the next you know, pop record label. So, uh, where

950
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: are you from? Originally born in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, and your

951
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: moved to New Jersey, came back to New York. Your father,

952
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: mother did what for a living? Uh? My mom was

953
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 1: very very early on a school teacher and then a housewife,

954
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: and my dad was in the advertising typography business. So

955
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: I I saw a technology go the wrong way in

956
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: my dad's business because he was basically in the printing

957
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: business for advertising agencies. So, uh, you know, music kind

958
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: of rings a rings a little okay. So that really

959
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: started to change, like eighty six with all this PageMaker

960
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. When did it crash for him? A good thing?

961
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: He was about to retire that's my question. Right, So

962
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: he retired about when it went so before it went down.

963
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: You grew up under what kind of circumstances? Um? You know,

964
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: my parents weren't wealthy, but you know, I don't remember

965
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: ever having to worry about my but dinner. Okay. How

966
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: many kids in the family to you? And you're the older,

967
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: the younger, I'm the older. Sounds like that. What's your

968
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: sister up to today? My sister just moved to North

969
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: Carolina and she's a housewife. Okay, So you grow up

970
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: you a big music fan? Well, I was a huge

971
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: sports fan and a music fan. I mean you know,

972
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: I was frankly your child basically the eighties. Yeah, okay,

973
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a sports guester. I wanted to

974
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: be the next Marv Albert. Well, how did that dream die?

975
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be poor. Graduating school and working

976
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: in you know, Iowa. Okay, we're and how passionate a

977
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: music fan? Were you? Um? You know, I worked at

978
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: the college radio station. Um, I did sports also on

979
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: the radio. I announced the lacrosse games at school and

980
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: then uh then uh then I came back to New

981
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: York after school. Okay, so you're in New Jersey. We're

982
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, Brown, New Jersey. Okay, you go to

983
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: public school I did, Okay, and then you go to

984
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: college where University Massachusetts emmersed. Why it was the cheapest

985
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: state school. So my parents figured, you know what, that's

986
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: a good school for you to go to, Okay, but

987
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: why not go to a school in New Jersey where

988
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: it's much cheaper. Well, frankly, I didn't want to go

989
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: to school in New Jersey and that was outside of

990
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Now, first great town. I've certainly been to

991
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: the University of uh mass JUSE's Amherst. No people who

992
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: went there. What was your experience there? Um? You know

993
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: it was it was an okay experience. The basketball team

994
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: I think was three and fifty four years I was there.

995
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: The football team, I don't know that they won a game.

996
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: Uh and um and uh, but you know it was.

997
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: It was a nice school to go to. I I

998
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: had a you know, the the business school was absolutely fantastic.

999
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: Is that what you majored in business? I did business

1000
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: administration and the minor in astronomy. By the way, I

1001
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: concentration in astronomy. That's out of this world. So, uh,

1002
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: what what was the vision when you were in business administration? Um? Well,

1003
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: I frankly didn't have a vision. I really, I really

1004
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: wanted to be a sportscaster. But I just wasn't. Uh,

1005
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: I really wasn't, you know, prepared to go out and

1006
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: you maintain relationships with the people who went to college with. Yeah.

1007
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: And what about the fact that most of those people

1008
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: are from Massachusetts. Um, that's true, certainly different than New York. Uh.

1009
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: You know, they were all Patriots fans and Celtic fans

1010
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: and Bruin fans. And I was a Nick fan, a

1011
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: Ranger fan, a Giant fan, a met fan. And the

1012
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: good thing is I wasn't a Yankee fan, because that

1013
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: would have been bruting, would have been brutal. Okay, Now today,

1014
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: when you go to a state school, I have a

1015
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: lot of friends who have experienced this with their children.

1016
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: A lot of the students go home on the weekend.

1017
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: Was that the case where when you went to college?

1018
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: Now going to residential college? Okay, you graduate from college

1019
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: in what year? I graduated in? Then? What? Okay? So

1020
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: so I don't tell many people this because because immediately

1021
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: when I say this, I feel so boring. I certainly

1022
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: don't tell my artists. Okay, So so i'm I'm I'm

1023
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: embarrassed to say that I graduated school and I got

1024
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: a job at the time. The company is called Arthur

1025
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: Young and it is one of the Big eight at

1026
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: the time. It was it was one of the Big

1027
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: eight at the time, which and then it turned down

1028
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: Arthur Young, I'm sorry Arthur and turned into Ernstin Young

1029
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: and I was at Ernstein Young, uh for three years. Okay. Now,

1030
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: many people work are on the road to getting a

1031
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: c p A. Did you get a c p A.

1032
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I've ever told anybody this

1033
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: in the music, but yes, I got a c p A.

1034
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: So I don't tell PEO because I don't want them

1035
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: to know. Actually, and how to read a financial statement?

1036
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: How many twives did it take it in the past,

1037
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: the c p A xam. I think it only took

1038
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: me one. Really, yeah, okay, because I know a lot

1039
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: of smart people, you know, they they the rules. It

1040
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 1: may be different. Is it a national exam or is

1041
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: it state by state? I have no idea. Okay, so

1042
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: you're a cp A. We're on the track. Ow ow easy,

1043
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: easy on the cp A thing. I think that that's

1044
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 1: a good feather in your cap. I don't see how

1045
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: that's a negative thing. Yeah, councre legendary for being boring.

1046
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: But you're on the track at Yes, yes, you get

1047
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: a c p A. How long after you start working it?

1048
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: What becomes Ursting Young? Do you get a c p A. Uh?

1049
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: I think I was there, Oh my gosh, I think

1050
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: I was at Arthur Young at the time. It was

1051
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: probably a year and a half that I got this. Okay,

1052
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: and you're working where I'm working. I'm working for let

1053
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: me see my client. The big client at time was

1054
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: was McGraw hill. I was working for the guys McGraw hill.

1055
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: That was my first job. And then I was on

1056
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: the e M I account. The guy named Jerry Gold

1057
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: who used to be at Warner Music Group. Um, he

1058
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: was the guy was where he is the partner at

1059
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: Arthur Young that I was working for, and he was

1060
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: phenomenal and what a great guy. He brought me in

1061
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: on a lot of things. And that's how three years later,

1062
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: uh I met uh, I met the my people and

1063
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: then uh in my fourth year I started working just

1064
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: to be glad. This is in Manhattan. In Manhattan, my

1065
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: fourth year I started working on a job that was

1066
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 1: with PolyGram Records buying Island Records. This is um uh.

1067
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: PolyGram Records was buying Island Records and A and M Records,

1068
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: And I was on the team that was consulting for

1069
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: PolyGram and doing all the diligence and the and that's

1070
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: when I met Chris Blackwell. In as I was, I

1071
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: was at Arthur Young And this is a great story,

1072
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: by the way. It was a great story. So so

1073
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: I meet a gentleman who was Chris Blackwell's chief operating officer.

1074
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: His name was Mel Klein. He has He's since passed away, unfortunately.

1075
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: Um Mel was Chris's right hand guy in America. He

1076
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: was his business guy. UM. He was basically running Island um.

1077
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: You know what. Chris was out signing talent and doing

1078
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: his thing. Um. And during the transaction we're we're finishing

1079
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: it off, melk Klein comes up to me and he says,

1080
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't like PolyGram. I worked for

1081
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: them before I'm done. As soon as this transaction is done,

1082
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: you are replacing me. And I said, I'm replacing you.

1083
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: And this is a guy who had been with Chris,

1084
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years twenty however long it was almost

1085
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: from the start. Um and uh, And he says, yeah,

1086
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna come in and you're gonna replace me,

1087
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: and I'm going to introduce you. I'm going to introduce

1088
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,439
Speaker 1: you to the team, and I want you to meet

1089
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 1: I want I want you to interview with Chris. So

1090
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: I said, great, sounds fantastic. Thank god, I can get

1091
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: out of Arthur Young. Right. So I don't hear from

1092
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: him for months. Months. Is the deal closed? Yeah, the

1093
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: dealer closed. The deal closed. I don't hear from him

1094
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: from months, and finally get a phone call in my office.

1095
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: I get a phone call. He goes, because Larry, you

1096
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: need to come down now. Chris is in town. I

1097
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: want you to meet him. I want you to sit

1098
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: with him and talk with him. Said all right, I'll

1099
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: come right down. So I take a subway from forty

1100
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: nine in Park down to fourth and Broadway where the

1101
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: Island Records office were. Remember the old Tower records of course, Yeah, okay,

1102
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: the Island's office was over Tower Records. So I go

1103
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: and see Mel and he says, I'm taking you into Chris.

1104
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: You know it'll be great. Don't worry. Don't be nervous.

1105
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: It'll be great. He takes me in to see Chris.

1106
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: The conversation may have lasted three minutes. I mean three

1107
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: minutes at the most. You know, Chris was in his office.

1108
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: He was, you know, flip flops and his T shirt.

1109
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: And we said hello, and Chris is very shy. It

1110
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: was very shy. Three minutes. He says, nice to meet you.

1111
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: We're nice to see you again, and and I leave

1112
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: and I go back to Mel's office and I said, Mel,

1113
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: that must have been a disaster, a disaster, and I

1114
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: was great, I love You'll love you. I'll call you tomorrow.

1115
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,919
Speaker 1: All right. I go back to my office. I don't

1116
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: hear from Mel for three months. I get a phone

1117
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: call and I'm thinking, by the way, over over three minutes,

1118
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, right, terrible. So I get a

1119
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: phone call and he says, he says, Larry, I'm leaving

1120
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: in two weeks and you're starting on Monday. And I said,

1121
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,919
Speaker 1: I'm starting what? And he goes, he goes, you're you're

1122
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: you're taking over from me on Monday, and you know

1123
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 1: I know nothing about the business, right, what do you

1124
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 1: mean you're leaving in two weeks? He goes, you have

1125
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: a week. You know, you have me for a week,

1126
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: I'll train you. I go, what am I making? What's

1127
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: the deal? He goes, what do you care? You're kidding?

1128
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: He goes, you start on Monday. So I I I

1129
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: like an idiot. I go down the fourth and Broadway

1130
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: on Monday. I tell Jerry goal by the way that

1131
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to the Island Records and I

1132
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: given you my two weeks, but it's gonna be a

1133
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: little less than two weeks. And he goes, and he

1134
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: was a great guy. He goes, you know what, I'm

1135
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 1: happy for you go and do it. He goes, how

1136
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: much you make? And I said, I have no idea.

1137
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: So I started Island that Monday. I'm gonna suit and tie.

1138
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: Everybody is in you know, jeans and ripped T shirts,

1139
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: and you know, everybody wanted the job, but you know

1140
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 1: they gave it to me because they probably wanted somebody

1141
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: who knew nothing about the record rising. I thought he

1142
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: knew everything about the wreck, but I knew nothing. And um,

1143
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, I started that Monday not knowing what I

1144
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: was making. And you know, Mel and Chris took care

1145
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: of me, and I was there for eleven years. My

1146
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: first you know, my first three months, nobody talked to

1147
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: me because my first the first day, I show up

1148
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: in a suit and tie, which was probably not the

1149
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: right thing to do starting at a record label. So

1150
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: I was with Chris for from till two thousand. What

1151
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: were your duties? Um, God, it's hard for me to

1152
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: remember what I had for breakfast this morning. Remember back

1153
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: to but I was in I was. I started out

1154
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: in charge of UM finance, UH, and then I got

1155
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: business affairs and sales, and you know, I became the

1156
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: chief operating officer of Ireland. UM. You know, we went

1157
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 1: through a couple of people like Mike Bone and people

1158
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: that never really stayed for more than six months. All

1159
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: great guys, but it never really worked out. So I

1160
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: ended up running Island in America, and I ended up

1161
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: running Chris. Chris's Personal Companies also, which was a Japanese

1162
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: animation company, overseeing the DVD company, the film company, his

1163
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,919
Speaker 1: hotels and blah blah blah blah. And UM. I reported

1164
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: to a guy who was in England, Tom Hayes, who

1165
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 1: was a fantastic guy as well as Chris, and UH.

1166
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: It was honestly the best experience I had in the

1167
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 1: record business with those eleven years. I work for Chris

1168
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:08,879
Speaker 1: our board meetings, Bob, We're on wave runners in the Bahamas.

1169
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean you know wherever Chris had an island or

1170
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: or a house in a warm weather that's where our

1171
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: board meetings were. Okay. Uh. When did you ultimately, if ever,

1172
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: get to make creative decisions? Um? You know, I think, um,

1173
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: I think, uh wow, Virgin Records was really okay. So

1174
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: you're a business guy. How does it business? But business market?

1175
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: And when you talk decisions and records, it's more you know,

1176
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: A and R I've I've never been or whatever claimed

1177
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: to be in an organ Does it end? Um? Well,

1178
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:48,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, when you're with Chris, it's it's like

1179
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: being in the mafia. Right, So when you're done, you're done. Um.

1180
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: And So I left in two thousand to go run

1181
01:09:55,840 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: Narrista with l A and and then I remember him

1182
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,839
Speaker 1: he he uh he um. I called him from Chicago

1183
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: on a pay phone and I've never and I don't remember.

1184
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: I don't think I had a cell phone at the time.

1185
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:10,719
Speaker 1: Maybe I did, but I called him from pay phone

1186
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: and he was in England and I had to tell

1187
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 1: him this is what I was doing, and uh we

1188
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: we didn't speak for quite some time. He was he

1189
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 1: was not happy that that I was leaving. But but

1190
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: it was the next logical step because it got so paternalistic.

1191
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: You know, I spent with spending more time with him

1192
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: than I was in my family. And I was in

1193
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: Jamaica every other month, in the Bahamas every couple of weeks,

1194
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 1: and wherever I was, I mean, it was always with

1195
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: Chris on business um and and I have you know, listen,

1196
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm no under grand delusion and no grand delusion. But

1197
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 1: everything I feel like I know in the business today,

1198
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 1: I know because he taught me over eleven years, whether

1199
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: it's marketing, whether it's a r whether it's give me

1200
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: uh ah, insight that Chris gave you that you wouldn't

1201
01:10:55,280 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 1: have gotten otherwise. Well that's easy. I mean, he gave

1202
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: me a worldview of music. And what was that view? Well,

1203
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people are stuck in their locale.

1204
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: So if you run America for you know, a record label,

1205
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: you know America. Chris was a man of the world.

1206
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: He was like the James Bond of the music business. Um.

1207
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: So you know, just seeing how he lived his life. Um,

1208
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up as as I was born

1209
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, I grew up in New Jersey. You know,

1210
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 1: we had enough money to put food on the table.

1211
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 1: But you know, experiencing um, you know, different countries and

1212
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: his different homes and his different his lifestyle and his

1213
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,560
Speaker 1: his way of thinking that there were no boxes or parameters.

1214
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 1: I mean, he he literally had no ceiling on his thought.

1215
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,600
Speaker 1: That all rubbed off. And I'm I, you know, I

1216
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 1: don't have you know, in his one pinky. You know

1217
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't have that much skill or or

1218
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: or very very one of it. Okay, uh is he

1219
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: compensating you? Well at this point? Well, looking back, you know,

1220
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: I'll tell you so, So I was. I was fairly compensated, right,

1221
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:09,560
Speaker 1: but I will never be the first bonus that I

1222
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like twenty six years old, right,

1223
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: I'm working from I helped him on a deal. He

1224
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:18,560
Speaker 1: he he was so he was brilliant, right. He So

1225
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: he sold Island Records to PolyGram Records for an exorbitant

1226
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: sum of money in nine nine, which I helped PolyGram by.

1227
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: But as part of that deal, he had a second

1228
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 1: body of the Apple he had an turn out. So

1229
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 1: if the company did well, he did well, he could

1230
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 1: sell other things. Right. So I helped him structure that

1231
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: second deal because I was with him the second time,

1232
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 1: and he gave me back in and I don't remember

1233
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 1: the year. It's probably like round two or three, but

1234
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: it could be a year here there. Um. He gave

1235
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: me a bonus of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

1236
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 1: at the time, and I thought I died and went

1237
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,560
Speaker 1: to him, I mean seriously, and I told him like

1238
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: an idiot, I'd said, you know, Chris, I would work

1239
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 1: for you for freak um and it was it was

1240
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: unbelievable and uh um. So he was always very generous um,

1241
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: and so I never I never had any any complaints

1242
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: because it was with Chris and Island. It was a lifestyle.

1243
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't a job. I mean everybody was

1244
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: there because of the music and the lifestyle and um,

1245
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: you know what he meant to the business. So it

1246
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 1: was very It was very different than when I went

1247
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: on to Aristata. I was at Arista from tooth from

1248
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 1: July one of two thousand until about May of two

1249
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: thousand and four. Okay, Clive was gone the whole time

1250
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 1: Clive was gone. Okay, I didn't really know Clive, and

1251
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 1: uh so you know, straus Zelnick basically brought me in

1252
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: to pair me up with uh with l A. Read

1253
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:00,040
Speaker 1: you were going to be the money guy, but is

1254
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 1: gonna be a business guy? L A was legendary and

1255
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: still is for overspending. Yeah. What was it like being

1256
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 1: the you can't see the air quotes the accountant? Yeah? Um, well,

1257
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, and I think he'd tell you. He he

1258
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: when he's passionate about something, he puts the check book up. Well,

1259
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 1: not only that, lifestyle issues too. Yeah. Uh but you know,

1260
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 1: my I saw mainly the you know, the the the

1261
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 1: label side of it. I mean, some of these things,

1262
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,640
Speaker 1: expensive bottles of wine. Whatever. Okay, how does it end

1263
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: with Arista? Um it it? Well here? Yeah. I actually

1264
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: I had an offer back in two thousand and three,

1265
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: a year before I left um A. Long Leavy called

1266
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: me and said, hey, I want you to come and

1267
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 1: run E M I in North America. And I said, wow,

1268
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,759
Speaker 1: that's pretty phenomenal. And what he offered me was pretty

1269
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 1: lifestyle changing. And I had, oh he had he had

1270
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 1: always been incredible to me. Um he was really tough,

1271
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,680
Speaker 1: but he had always been very fair with me um

1272
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: and I took the offer. And I went to Ralf

1273
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 1: schmidh Haltz, who ran BMG, who I was very friendly with,

1274
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: and I went to l A Read and I said, LA, listen,

1275
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 1: I just want you to know. You know, I'm being honest,

1276
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: I'm being open. I've got this job, the offer from

1277
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: a long leavey to run e M I in North America,

1278
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 1: and it's life changing for me, and I think I

1279
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:39,560
Speaker 1: want to do it. I'd love to get your you know,

1280
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 1: like we're were in Australia at the time, by the way.

1281
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: We were sitting on a deck overlooking the Opera House

1282
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,759
Speaker 1: at the Park Hyatt Hotel. I've been there right, absolutely great,

1283
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: great place. And you know he's sipping wine. I don't

1284
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: really drink, he's sipping wine. And you know he's smoking

1285
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: a cigar and I can't stand smoke. And you know,

1286
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,719
Speaker 1: so anyway, I said, look, here's the here's the here's

1287
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 1: the this is what's happening. This is what's happening. And

1288
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 1: I'd love you too, you know, give me the nod

1289
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: to to do it. He's a nod or you want

1290
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 1: to be let out of your contract. I want to

1291
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: be let out of my contract. So so he says, look,

1292
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: I'll talk to Rolf and you'll go talk to Rolf.

1293
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: But I'm you know, I'll be very supportive. And uh uh.

1294
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: We got back from Australia. I went to talk to

1295
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: Rolf and Rolf looks at me like I have, you know,

1296
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 1: three heads, and he says, you're not going anywhere. And

1297
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 1: I said, and by the way, he he really was

1298
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: a fantastic guy. He was not a music guy, but

1299
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 1: as a human being he was great. And he said, look,

1300
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you a story about my father and

1301
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,680
Speaker 1: how and how I don't I don't remember it, but

1302
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: it was, you know, he was a school teacher in

1303
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: Germany and you know, but and he decided to stay

1304
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: in the small town and what and it was a

1305
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 1: really touching story. And he said, I can't let you

1306
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: leave because you have a contract and I need you

1307
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: to stay. And you guys were a team and I'm

1308
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 1: not letting you leave. So to say I was disappointed

1309
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: with an understatement, um uh, and I think and you know,

1310
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: a long leave. He tried everything he was he was

1311
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: offering to give BMG, I think an advance, a bigger

1312
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 1: advance in the BMG record club to to let me out.

1313
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,639
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it played out over a long

1314
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: period of time and they never let you go, didn't

1315
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: let me go. But to Rolf's credit, um, he was

1316
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: never negative. It was never a negative thing. It was

1317
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: always a very positive thing about why he wanted me

1318
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 1: to stay. Um. And uh, they didn't let me out, so,

1319
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: which was very unusual, I think in the music business,

1320
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 1: very unusually. It's vindictive when they don't let you out. Yeah, yeah,

1321
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 1: they did. They didn't let me out. So a year

1322
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 1: goes by and uh and they announced the merger with

1323
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 1: BMG and Sony and l A. L A leaves the

1324
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 1: company and I'm running Arista for about four months and uh,

1325
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: you know again this little blurry at the time. It's

1326
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 1: been a while, but I think they announced uh in

1327
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, I was running it from January to April.

1328
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: We had phenomenal sing By the way, I think we

1329
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: made more money. Ariston made more money in those four

1330
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: months than we made in the previous three years. Time

1331
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: nine because you know, it was an outcast record and

1332
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: Ussher record, I mean it was pink, I was it

1333
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: was a lot of a lot of stuff that came out. Um.

1334
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 1: But uh um, they announced a Clive rightfully so coming back.

1335
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: It was gonna come back, and they were merging Ariston

1336
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 1: r c A, Ariston and Ja. I'm sorry Arista and

1337
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: Jay and he was going to run it and he

1338
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 1: was gonna run it. But I think they had taken

1339
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 1: over our c A at the time, had taken over

1340
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: our game. But I don't believe Clive was in control

1341
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 1: of that. It was just my so so. Uh. In

1342
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 1: January of that year, a lot And called me back

1343
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 1: up and he said, hey, I can't can't offer you

1344
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 1: president of via my North America, but I can offer

1345
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 1: you to be the executive vice president of Virgin Records. Um.

1346
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: The guy that was there was leaving and please come in.

1347
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: You know I need you. And I said, look, I

1348
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:22,720
Speaker 1: think it's gonna actually work out this time because with

1349
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 1: Clyde being announced and the merging, they breached you know,

1350
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 1: they breached my contract and they offered me to I

1351
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: can't remember the corporate role they had offered me, and

1352
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: it just you know, okay, just did they have to

1353
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 1: give you a check to go home? Uh? They did

1354
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 1: I get a check or did I get a did

1355
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 1: they have to pay off the rest of my agreement?

1356
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember. It was either I got a check

1357
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:51,679
Speaker 1: or they or they had to pay off the remaining years.

1358
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 1: That's what I meant the agreement. I can't remember they

1359
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: did that. Yeah, I mean, okay, okay, So you go

1360
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:58,560
Speaker 1: to work for you might for the I mean for

1361
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:00,640
Speaker 1: the same money was going to pay you for an

1362
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 1: m not even close. So are you're kidding? Not even

1363
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: goes about a third of what And how long do

1364
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 1: you had Virgin before you walk? Um? Well, I am

1365
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 1: at Virgin a year and a half and um, and

1366
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 1: you know when I walked in the door, it was

1367
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: if you remember, I think it was February that year. Um.

1368
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,600
Speaker 1: I had been talking to them for a long you know,

1369
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 1: for a long since, uh and David months since January

1370
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:34,400
Speaker 1: that year, um, and I think it was February. The

1371
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: whole Janet Jackson, um, you know, the backle and the

1372
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,400
Speaker 1: Super Bowl happened. I had agreed to come and by

1373
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:44,560
Speaker 1: the time I got there, and at the end of

1374
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: April beginning of May, Virgin was full fledged in in

1375
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 1: the doghouse, right because Janet was their biggest artist. She

1376
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 1: wasn't being played an MTV issue. She was done because

1377
01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:00,640
Speaker 1: of that Super Bowl thing. And you know, they had

1378
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: Lenny Kravitz and they had the Rolling Stones, and the

1379
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones were on their last album and they left.

1380
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 1: So by the time I got there, it was Janet

1381
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: was Janet Jackson and Lenny Kravitz and not a lot

1382
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: else and and it was just it was a long

1383
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: year and a half. Um. You know, great people, great company.

1384
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: And I really did love working with Levan Mons, but um,

1385
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 1: the record business was just really tough. OK. Just to

1386
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 1: cover a couple of things, because we know that you

1387
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: ultimately left. When do you went in? How do you

1388
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: meet your wife? Ah? I met my wife back at

1389
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 1: Island Records. She was working for Island Records on our

1390
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:47,760
Speaker 1: west coast. I was in the East coast, and we

1391
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:50,800
Speaker 1: got introduced at the company Christmas party by her boss.

1392
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: And what was her role? She was in marketing. She

1393
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 1: was working for Island Visual Arts, which is a division

1394
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:07,200
Speaker 1: violent Record. So we met um back in three I think, um,

1395
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, so I fired her? Actually did you

1396
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,759
Speaker 1: literally fired? I? I did. Actually, you know, she doesn't

1397
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:18,040
Speaker 1: she doesn't tell the story the right way, but the

1398
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: right way that the story should be told is that

1399
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 1: Island Visual Arts was losing a fortune of money and

1400
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 1: it was Chris's vision to have the first DVD company

1401
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 1: associated with the record companies. It was in the early

1402
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: days of visual auto visual, DVDs and uh and this

1403
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 1: was a DVD company and you know, lost, lost a

1404
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 1: lot of money. So leaving along, Levi calls me up

1405
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 1: and says, this can't keep going on. And Chris says,

1406
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: I love this, love this thing. It's gonna be great.

1407
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 1: Levi says, this can't keep going on. And finally we

1408
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 1: had to close it down. So I had to fly out,

1409
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 1: fired everybody, and I asked her she wanted to move

1410
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 1: to New York and she said she would if I

1411
01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:59,000
Speaker 1: got her a job. So I got her job. A

1412
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 1: friend of mine was at all give you may there,

1413
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: got a job, and you know, we ended up she

1414
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:06,760
Speaker 1: ended up moving to New York. Okay, so let's talk

1415
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: about the elephant in the room. Mark ah who Yeah,

1416
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:20,679
Speaker 1: give me your take on Merk's company. Um well hypnosis yeah,

1417
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 1: um well he um. You know, he started out buying

1418
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 1: a lot of things that we passed on because you

1419
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:33,360
Speaker 1: didn't want to buy them, or the number was too high,

1420
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 1: not because the number was too high. We didn't want

1421
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: to buy them because I believe that our our kind.

1422
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm not saying his philosophy is wrong,

1423
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 1: it's just different than ours. Ours is to buy the

1424
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:52,679
Speaker 1: most iconic, the most legendary music that's stable, that's been

1425
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: historically producing income, that's been historically known for years, for decades.

1426
01:23:58,160 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: So you know, we're buying things that are forty years,

1427
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: thirty years old, you know, sometimes twenty years old. Um.

1428
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:06,679
Speaker 1: And you know those are the Bob Marley's of the world,

1429
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:09,599
Speaker 1: the greatest of the great Bob Marley, Smokey Anchor, Count

1430
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 1: Basie Whitney, Houston, merc started by buying and still is.

1431
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 1: He believes in the contemporary catalog business, which is um.

1432
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 1: You know, he's bought a lot of new music, and

1433
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: he's paid very high prices twenty to multiple uh yeah, rumored. UM.

1434
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 1: And I believe that income stream is coming down because

1435
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,679
Speaker 1: as these songs come off the radio, and it takes

1436
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: years to come off the radio, as you know, um

1437
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 1: and streams. While while I believe in the subscription business

1438
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 1: and I believe in emerging markets, to what he does, UM,

1439
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 1: new music just um by sheer gravity is going to

1440
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 1: come down in terms of earnings and um, and my

1441
01:24:56,439 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 1: philosophy is to buy incredibly able, important music that we

1442
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 1: could market, promote and brand and increase earnings. So it's

1443
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 1: very hard, um, you know, when you're buying newer music,

1444
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 1: stuff that's three years old, four years old, five years

1445
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:14,719
Speaker 1: it's very hard to figure out a way to market

1446
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: to increase value and increase earnings. And he's buying most

1447
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 1: of the time, he's buying of that, so he doesn't

1448
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: have the artist buying or he's buying, um, you know,

1449
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 1: writers share. Usually it's of available. I don't want to buy,

1450
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 1: as we talked about what I want to and I

1451
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:34,240
Speaker 1: want to buy or se because I need that buying.

1452
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 1: But more importantly, UM, you know he has done He's

1453
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,719
Speaker 1: done a great thing for our business in one sense,

1454
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: which is he's shaking up the muddy water. So a

1455
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 1: lot of artists that would never have thought about selling

1456
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 1: are now thinking about selling because you know he's I think, Um,

1457
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 1: you know, he's shaken that barrel. And people are calling

1458
01:25:57,479 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: us and you know, we're doing a lot more deals

1459
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:03,760
Speaker 1: now than we've ever done before. Great deals, you know,

1460
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 1: great music, Um, but but I think, uh, I'm never

1461
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:12,920
Speaker 1: gonna say he's overpaying, because I believe in the value

1462
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 1: of music a long term. But what people are saying

1463
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 1: about him today people were saying about me in two thousand, six, seven,

1464
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: eight nine when I was paying big multiples for the

1465
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: for a piece of the Beatles, big multiples for Kirko Paining,

1466
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,840
Speaker 1: et cetera. I don't know. That's uh, that's something that

1467
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 1: I would say, even though he's spending, uh, you know,

1468
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: and and paying very significant prices, uh you know. To me,

1469
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 1: the the multiple has to align with the value of

1470
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,519
Speaker 1: what we're buying and whether we can increase the earnings

1471
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,000
Speaker 1: flow and so on new music. I just can't think.

1472
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 1: I don't think you can do that. Do you think

1473
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,640
Speaker 1: there's an ultimate play beyond what we've delineated, kind of

1474
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,599
Speaker 1: like Irving and global rights. He he locks up certain

1475
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: people and then leverages that. I think you don't think so.

1476
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 1: I think he has to buy so much and he's

1477
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 1: not a lot of the music he's buying is U

1478
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: is a passive income streams in terms of writers share.

1479
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: He doesn't have publishing, uh for many of the artists,

1480
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 1: or if he does that publishing the administration is locked

1481
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:22,680
Speaker 1: up long term elsewhere. There are some things I think

1482
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: he's buying that he has publishing on. But um, you know,

1483
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:30,559
Speaker 1: to have that type of leverage, you really need to have, um,

1484
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, bulk like a like a Universal or a

1485
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 1: Sony or a Warner. I just I don't. I don't

1486
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 1: believe that that that is the case. Although okay, historically

1487
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 1: and I would agree that in the split of the

1488
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: pie from revenue from streaming services, publishing got screwed. Yeah,

1489
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 1: do you believe we can see any change there? Yeah,

1490
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,600
Speaker 1: I think that's going to happen as well as we

1491
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 1: continue to move forward. I think David Israelite, I think

1492
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 1: the nmp A, I think in general what's going on

1493
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,760
Speaker 1: with legislation on Capitol Hill. I think it's all moving

1494
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 1: in the right direction. And I think you're going to eventually,

1495
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 1: And when I said eventually, that you know, could be

1496
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,680
Speaker 1: twenty years down the road. But I think you're gonna see, um,

1497
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:21,639
Speaker 1: the copyright, the the publishing, the writers getting much more

1498
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 1: of a fifty fifty split down the road with the

1499
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 1: record of music business. And you know, by the way,

1500
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 1: the biggest issue, you know, is that the major music

1501
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 1: publishers are owned by the record the record company or

1502
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: or okay, wait wait, wait, wait, wait, what do we

1503
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 1: know about We know Spotify does not scale. If you

1504
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:42,719
Speaker 1: talk to Lucy and Grange or other thinkers in the business,

1505
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 1: say we have to keep them in business because they

1506
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 1: are there, you know, ultimate ultimate payer. So let's just

1507
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 1: assume for the sake of discussion, they need thirty odd

1508
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 1: points out of a hundred just to pay all their bills, etcetera.

1509
01:28:57,200 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Who that would mean that the record companies would have

1510
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:03,919
Speaker 1: to cough up some points to go to the publishers.

1511
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: You foresee that happening. Well, well, let's let's put it

1512
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 1: this way. I hope that happens, right, But I think

1513
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 1: the biggest impediment is that these major publishers who have

1514
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: the leverage are controlled by companies that the majority of

1515
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 1: their income is coming from recorded music. So I think

1516
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 1: that's a big impediment. But I do believe that people

1517
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 1: will understand the relationship between the songwriter, the publishing and

1518
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:38,639
Speaker 1: the overall dollar that's available in streaming. Number One act

1519
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:46,439
Speaker 1: you'd like to get that you haven't gotten, Well, m

1520
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:48,719
Speaker 1: that's a good question. I mean, I think that would

1521
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 1: be Bob Dylan, Okay, and then moving forward, what do

1522
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 1: you see for the music business in general that encompasses

1523
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 1: us all revenue streams? Well, I am. I am in

1524
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: incredibly bullish on the music business in general for two

1525
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: two very important reasons. Um there, you know, I don't

1526
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 1: think anybody can doubt the fact that, uh that streaming

1527
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 1: is not only here to stay, but streaming is going

1528
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 1: to be even more and more penetrated in in in

1529
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: the world than it is today. I think, you know,

1530
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 1: subscriptions are going to continue to rise. Um. You know,

1531
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 1: the the the the price that uh that that these

1532
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: services are charging is more the question than whether or

1533
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,920
Speaker 1: not people will be streaming. It's on demand and there's

1534
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:44,040
Speaker 1: nothing beyond on demand. I agreed, Um, So I think

1535
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 1: streaming will continue to penetrate. I think the overall pot

1536
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 1: will go up. But I think more importantly, and I

1537
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 1: don't know people people are concentrating on this, but eventually

1538
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: our revenues are going to go up significantly because emerging

1539
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 1: markets will continue to come online. I remember, Bob, when

1540
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:05,759
Speaker 1: we started in two thousand and six, it was virtually

1541
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:09,640
Speaker 1: no income coming from China, from Russia, from India, from

1542
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: a lot of these emerging markets. Today. You know, that

1543
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:14,800
Speaker 1: was two thousand six. Today we're two thousand twenty. We're

1544
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,599
Speaker 1: actually seeing a good chunk of income coming in from

1545
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,800
Speaker 1: these emerging markets. And I think, not too far down

1546
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 1: the road, um, you know, five years, seven years, we're

1547
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 1: going to see a big part of our income coming

1548
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 1: from emerging markets. And that's why I like the type

1549
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,759
Speaker 1: of iconic music we're buying, because I think Bob Marley

1550
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,519
Speaker 1: travels everywhere. I don't think there's a place in the

1551
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 1: globe that doesn't revere Barb Marley. You know, Don Handley

1552
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:42,800
Speaker 1: tells a great story. He was somewhere in a third

1553
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:46,719
Speaker 1: ruld place what height for like an hour and a half,

1554
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 1: you know, from from civilization, and he's there with the

1555
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: natives and they looked at they go Hotel California. It's like, yeah,

1556
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:59,560
Speaker 1: it's amazing. The penetration. Larry, this has been fantastic. We

1557
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 1: could go on forever, but we're kindred spirits because of

1558
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 1: her month. Some think we're both big skiers because I said,

1559
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: someone needs a studio otherwise. We continue to talk about

1560
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,679
Speaker 1: that on Mike until next time. This is a Bob

1561
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:12,920
Speaker 1: Left That's podcast.