1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. 5 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here. 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: Back for another episode as we, of course break down 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: the psychology of our twenties. I've been having this huge 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: desire recently to see what it is like to go 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: without my phone for a week, for a month, maybe forever. 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about a digital detox, although that 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: would probably be nice at this point. I am talking 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: about a full breakup, a full intervention, a full divorce 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: between me and my iPhone, because I've been tracking so 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 2: much of my unhappiness back to this device that has 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: become ubiquitous in all our lives and what it's been 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: doing to my mind and to my productivity, into my relationships, 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: and to my self esteem. We are probably never more 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: than five meters away from our phone at any given time. 21 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: We take it to the bathroom, even if people think 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: that's gross. A lot of us. Do we spend more 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: time with it than our friends and our own parents. 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: It is this constant force in our lives, so why 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: aren't we examining our relationship with it more. What's really 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: caused me to start thinking about this was not one. 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: It was actually two things. Two things I came across recently. 28 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: One was a quote. One was an article. The quote 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: was from Henry David through and it essentially said, the 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: cost of anything is the amount of life you exchange 31 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: for it. And ironically it came across my Instagram feed 32 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: and just kind of reached through the screen and grabbed me, 33 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: and my brain immediately was like, oh, this is talking 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: about your phone and the habits that you currently have 35 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: with this device, and how much life or time I'm 36 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: giving to scrolling and to apps and to social media 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: for very very little reward. It is like a pit 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: that I am sinking so much of my day into 39 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: almost six hours a day at this point, which is like, 40 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 2: honestly a bit disgusting when I say it out loud 41 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: and in actuality. For how much time I am spending 42 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: on this thing, I'm getting basically nothing from it, and 43 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: that time would so much be better spent learning a 44 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: new skill, or experiencing the world, or being present with 45 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: my friends. So that quote really just kind of gripped 46 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: me and has been running through my head a lot recently. 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: The second thing that has me thinking me and my 48 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: phone need to get some serious distance was an article 49 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: written by the ABC that I read about a group 50 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: of teenagers who call themselves the Ludite Club. Ludites, I 51 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 2: only just like this is the name of a group 52 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: of textile workers who during the Industrial Revolution refused to 53 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: use machinery. They like actively destroyed machinery, like they were 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: anti technology. These kids, the Ludites, they don't have smartphones. 55 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: They some of them have never had a smartphone. They 56 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: don't use social media. They have what they call dumb phones, 57 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: so basically a flip phone with no apps. It's just 58 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: for emergencies. And they're kind of this group of individuals 59 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: who seem so connected. They have all these friends, they 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: seem so much happier, so much more self expressive, and 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: just wise beyond their years. And I was reading this 62 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: article when I was looking at these kids who have 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: kind of gone against our expectations that they would be 64 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: quite lonely or disconnected, and I felt very, very envious. However, 65 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: when I also started thinking like, maybe I could do that, 66 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: maybe I should do that, the first reaction I had 67 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: was one of like panic and almost anxiety about the 68 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: thought of not being connected and all these situations I 69 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: might not be able to handle without my iPhone, And 70 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: it just brought me this extreme unease and it made 71 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: me think, any item whose absence creates that's that much 72 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: of a reaction needs to be rethought, because how can 73 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 2: an inanimate object control my emotions, my self perception, my 74 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: sense of capability that much. How did we kind of 75 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: let it go this far to the point where a 76 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: lot of people wouldn't know how to navigate their own 77 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: city without their phone, They wouldn't know how to get home, 78 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: they wouldn't know how to entertain themselves, they wouldn't know 79 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: how to be connected. It's kind of scary when you 80 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: really start to interrogate how this technology is actually harming us. 81 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: And I know I sound like such an old lady, 82 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: like I sound like such a concerned parent, but it 83 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: is what I want to talk about today. I'm in 84 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: this weird mental head space of wanting to rethink my 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: technological habits, and I want to see if you guys 86 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: are feeling the same way, and also how we can 87 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: find kind of a solution here, because it might not 88 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: be a full breakup with our smartphones, but there definitely 89 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: is part of this that we need to rethink. Is 90 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: there a middle ground or have we just gone too far? 91 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: What would our brains? What did our brains look like 92 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 2: before our smartphones? What do they look like now, what 93 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: could they look like afterwards? And just so many other 94 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: questions that I've been having around what this is doing 95 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: to my mind. So I'm so excited to be able 96 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: to explore with you guys today. Hopefully give myself some answers, 97 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: give you guys some answers if you're feeling this too. 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: Without further ado, let's talk about why we should maybe 99 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: be breaking up with our phones stay with us. So 100 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: other than that throw a quote and that article, there 101 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: have been a few other kind of wake up calls 102 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: for me recently. I would say, firstly, it was a 103 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: conversation I had with my boyfriend where he kind of 104 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: made like an offhand comment about me always being on 105 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: my phone, and it offended me a little bit. But 106 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 2: he said to me afterwards, like, surely you know this 107 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: about yourself. Surely you know that you're someone who's like 108 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: always working, always on their phone, like this is just 109 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: kind of who you are. And I was taken aback 110 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: because I did not think that about myself. It was 111 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: like a major psychological blind spot for me. Something that 112 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 2: is obvious to others obviously not to me, and I 113 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: kind of had chosen, I guess, in some way to 114 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: ignore that this is how other people perceived me and 115 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: this is how I behaved. Then after that, I started 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: really going into my screen time data and just realized, like, wow, 117 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: I this thing is controlling me more than I'm controlling it. 118 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: Like I'm picking up my phone three hundred times a day. 119 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: Each time I'm on it for like two minutes or more, 120 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: I'm basically giving up my life to this inanimate thing. 121 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: In like one percent increments. Social media, I think, like 122 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: most of us, is probably where I spend most of 123 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: my time. And I think I could largely excuse that 124 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: because social media is part of my job and so 125 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: it was justifiable. But really, I think I could only 126 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: be on social media for thirty minutes a day or 127 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: less and still do my job. This was again like 128 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: just an excuse that I was giving to myself, I guess, 129 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: an excuse to stop me feeling a bit embarrassed or 130 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: ashamed or alarmed, or like, to stop me from recognizing 131 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: that something kind of needed to be done. There's also 132 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: this realization I had that if someone asked me, someone 133 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: held a gun to my head and said, tell me 134 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: the last five things that you saw on Instagram or 135 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: the last five reels that you scroll past on TikTok, 136 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: I would not be able to tell them. A lot 137 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: of this scrolling that I was doing and that I 138 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: still am doing, is entirely mindless. And if I wasn't 139 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: present with the outside world, which I wasn't because I 140 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: was on my phone and I obviously wasn't present with 141 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: whatever was going on with my phone like that, time 142 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: is basically entirely empty. I basically I could see the 143 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: argument that I wasn't even conscious in a weird way, 144 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: and that was kind of a scary feeling. That's just 145 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: time that it's just been rubbed out by me, just 146 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 2: I guess, going numb from watching reels or doing things 147 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: on my phone. I really would ask you to ask 148 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: yourself that same question. Could you do that? Could you 149 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: tell me the last five videos you've liked on TikTok 150 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 2: or the last five things you saw on Instagram that 151 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: genuinely actually change your life. Could you give me any 152 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 2: kind of recount on the value being provided by your 153 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 2: phone or by social media. Yes, there are small things, 154 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: but I don't think that value outweighs what it would 155 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 2: feel like to not be on your phone. I think 156 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: that we make all these excuses for technology that no, 157 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: you know, like I can make online friends and it's 158 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 2: made life so much more convenient, and it helps me 159 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: with this, and it helps me with that. But let's 160 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: not kid ourselves. There's so much more value in the 161 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: real world and being outdoors or being really intensely present 162 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: with a friend than there is ever going to be 163 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 2: from some kind of artificial connection that we have through 164 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: a screen. I think the tension that we have with 165 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: our phones is that they are actually very useful tools, 166 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: and they have of course been designed to have all 167 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: these capabilities and to have convenience in mind. You know, 168 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: we don't have to carry a map and a notebook 169 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: and a wallet and a calculator and a flashlight and 170 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: an address and an address book and a camera around 171 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: with us like we don't have to carry all of 172 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: these things, and that's pretty marvelous. Definitely is saving our 173 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: arms and our shoulders from heavy backpacks and heavy tote bags. 174 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: Like it has been designed to be helpful, it's also 175 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: been designed to take up as much of our attention 176 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: as possible to be an attentional leech. Specifically, the apps 177 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: we have on them have been created to use the 178 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: fact that our phones are always close to us and 179 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: basically an extension of us, as a way to really 180 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: lure us in and to get us to spend more 181 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 2: time and in some ways more money on them and 182 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: more money within these like digital spaces. Smartphones and you know, 183 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: social media going go hand in hand. They go hand 184 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: in hand, and they were both really designed around what 185 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 2: psychologists call intermittent reinforcement. Intermittant reinforcement is the same principles 186 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: used in gambling. Basically, in gambling, you never know when 187 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: you're going to get a reward. With your phones, you 188 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: never know when you're going to get a ping, you 189 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: never know when that person's finally going to text you back, 190 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: or you're going to receive a like or a message, 191 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: so you just keep checking just in case. You just 192 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: keep scrolling just in case you missed something, and in 193 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: some ways it becomes quite mindless. What maybe started as 194 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 2: a dopamine related and dopamine motivated behavior has now become 195 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: one that's just like entirely normal and devoid of a 196 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 2: lot of feeling. Actually, there have been certain former employees 197 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: of Google and Facebook and Meta and Yahoo who have 198 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: come out and said, this is what we were doing 199 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 2: behind the scenes when we were designing these platforms and 200 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 2: we were designing these apps. It was called a race 201 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: for attention. That's literally what it was called. Because there 202 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: was this idea, whoever has our attention, has our money, 203 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: has our ears, has our eyes, can deliver messages, can 204 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: persuade us, can influence us to act one way or another, 205 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: and that is an incredibly lucrative business model. And so 206 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: these apps, and you know, the people who designed our 207 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: phones had you know, literal neuroscientists on their teams being like, 208 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: how can we make this more alluring, more flashy, What 209 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: sounds will attract people the most? How can we get 210 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: people more hooked in? Now one, we can't stop scrolling. 211 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: You know, our phones were designed to exploit our deepest 212 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: psychological vulnerabilities, our deepest biological vulnerabilities. You know, the fact 213 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 2: that we craved opamine, the fact that we crave serotonin, 214 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: and the fact that something like Instagram or social media 215 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: or any number of things can provide us that in 216 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: like a very nice snack like bite. I know, I'm 217 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 2: kind of starting to sound like a bit of a 218 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist here. And obviously I don't think that there 219 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: is some big, bad, nefarious plot to have us all 220 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: reliant on technology and on a to devoid enjoyment from 221 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: anything else. I don't think there's some big plot to 222 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 2: slowly control our minds or whatever else people might put 223 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: out there. But I do think that because we've taken 224 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 2: all of these technological advancements for granted, we haven't considered 225 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: the implications further down the line for our brain, for 226 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 2: our neuroplasticity, for how we socialize. Let's examine that for 227 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 2: a second. Because this technology has only been around for 228 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: let's say twenty years, already, we have seen changes to 229 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 2: our brains. You've probably seen a few articles here and 230 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: there exclaiming that our phones are rewiring our minds and 231 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: they're making us less human. The truth is a lot 232 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: more nuanced than the headline suggests. But yes, there is 233 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: truth in that statement that smartphones are reshaping the way 234 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: our brains process information, regulate, attention, experience, emotion, think, feel, express, empathy, 235 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 2: all the things that make us well human. One major 236 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: area of concern that I think is on everyone's minds 237 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: is obviously attention span. I feel like this has gotten 238 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: a lot worse for me in the past four years, 239 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: perhaps since COVID. Tell me if you feel the same, 240 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: But I feel like my attention pre COVID post COVID 241 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: is so different, and some people will attribute that to 242 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: smartphone use. So there was a study published in Nature 243 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two that basically found that globally our 244 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: attention spans have measurably shortened in the last decade, and 245 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: they link that mainly to rapid fire dopamine driven feedback 246 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: loops provided by digital content. You know, apps like TikTok 247 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: and Instagram are designed to overstimulate us, and they have 248 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: trained our brains to kind of expect novelty and expect 249 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: some new form of entertainment every few seconds. And because 250 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 2: they've been trained to expect that, it makes sustained long 251 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: term focus and attention feel boring and feel almost intolerable. 252 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: That's why when you know you've been in a task 253 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: for a while, you suddenly will have this weird, almost 254 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: impulsive urge to scroll. It's like your brain begging for 255 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: like a treat, begging for like a hit. The problem 256 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: with that is that many of the tasks were required 257 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: to do as humans, or that we would normally enjoy doing, 258 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: don't operate on the same dopamine reward scale or the 259 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: same timeline. Take, for example, working towards a thesis, working 260 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: towards a big exam, and your business idea or long 261 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: term project or goal, you're not going to get a 262 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: hit for a while. The dopamine that comes from successfully 263 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: completing that big goal or that big task is significantly delayed. 264 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: It's definitely not on a six second, twelve second, one 265 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: minute cycle. The way that our phones are operating, There's 266 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: going to be a lot of repetitive hard work that 267 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: you will not be rewarded for in the moment. But 268 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: because we can no longer sustain our attention to focus 269 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: on those things, because we are so used to being 270 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: rewarded instantly, it can become a lot harder to sustain 271 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: our focus and our attention on the thing ahead of 272 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: us and to complete goals. It becomes a lot harder 273 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: to resist small daily temptations in favor of a more 274 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: valuable feeling later on. Studies have shown we are becoming 275 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: worse at delaying gratification. We want the pleasure and we 276 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: want it now. That's not good news. We are actually 277 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 2: as a society less inclined to do hard things. We 278 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: can't pay attention for as long and on an emotional level, 279 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: phones are also interfering with our ability to self regulate. 280 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: A study from the University of Texas demonstrated that the 281 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: mere presence of a smartphone, even if it's off, actually 282 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: reduces our available emotional and cognitive capacity. Why because part 283 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: of your attention is always unconsciously monitoring your phone just 284 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: in case it lights up, or it vibrates, or someone 285 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 2: needs you or it demands your attention. The phone, your 286 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: phone becomes kind of like a cognitive parasite. It's like 287 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: quietly siphoning off mental energy even when it's not in use. 288 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: That's the critical thing, even when it's not in use. 289 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 2: This is due to what a psychologists call, in the context, 290 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: the smartphone use brain drain. We have limited attentional resources, 291 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: and so if we are constantly exercising our willpower in 292 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 2: one way subconsciously really trying to resist checking our phone, 293 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 2: trying really hard to not pay attention to it, we 294 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: actually are depleting our overall resources in another way. And 295 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: that's what makes concentrating on another task substantially harder, even 296 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 2: if you don't realize it, just the fact that your 297 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: phone is there and that you want to touch it, 298 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: even if you're not, it's still making what you're doing 299 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: now more difficult. This effect was strongest in this study 300 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 2: amongst the participants who reported being more emotionally dependent on 301 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: their phones. So people who said they used their phone 302 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: to deal with difficult feelings, they resorted to drowning out 303 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: uncomfortable thoughts using social media, using these proxy forms of 304 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: social connection. There was one question that was like, uh, 305 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: I can't remember what it said, but it was basically, 306 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: can you imagine can you imagine dealing with this situation? 307 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 2: And it was like someone breaking up with you without 308 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 2: having your phones? Do you think it would make it worse? 309 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: And almost everyone was like, oh yeah. There were all 310 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: these questions that basically showed that our phones are like 311 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 2: a little security blanket, like we're children, and when we're sad, 312 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: or when we're lonely, or when we're tired, we go 313 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: to them for nourishment in a weird way. Let's also 314 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: talk about social connection for a second here, because I 315 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 2: think it's probably one of the most important parts of 316 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 2: this conversation. Everyone everyone wants to talk about it. Do 317 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: our phones make friendship and dating harder or do they 318 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: make it easier? I feel like everyone split down the middle. 319 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: Half the people say, no, you know, I'm more connected 320 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: than ever. The other half say, yeah, you might be 321 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: more connected, but is that real connection for me? I 322 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: personally think that our phones are again a tool, but 323 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: when they become the only tool through which we can 324 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: connect with others, they're not useful anymore, like they've served 325 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 2: their purpose almost too much to the form of reliance. 326 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: I saw this tweet the other day that I think 327 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: captures the price we've paid for this convenience and this 328 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: ease beautifully. This person said, our phones and social media, 329 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 2: they don't work because humans are inherently social. They work 330 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 2: because they figured out how to replace real connection with 331 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 2: the artificial sensation that we are connecting artificial because it 332 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 2: doesn't require either person to be truly present or in 333 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: invested in the other person. You can maintain a friendship 334 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: through a series of happy birthday messages, through sending reels 335 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: back and forth. Your dating life can become looking at 336 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: thousands of faces over and over again, rather than walking 337 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: into a bar and feeling the spark in real life. 338 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: And so no, it's not the same, but in some 339 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: small way, we've been made to feel like it is. 340 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 2: Psychologists have actually given that experience a name, the experience 341 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 2: of I guess having these like bite sized, small moments 342 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: of connection in like a digital space that aren't real 343 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: but kind of sustain us until we can meet up 344 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: in person. They call them social snacks, or they call 345 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: this process social stacking. These brief digital interactions that mimic 346 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 2: the nutrients of real connection are important, and they do 347 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 2: sustain us over time, like a stacks between a meal, 348 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 2: but they are not a meal. They don't feel us, 349 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: and over time, as these micro interactions become the default, 350 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: they actually begin to substitute the real thing. You know, 351 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: a phone call no longer needs to take place if 352 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: you feel like you know, you're kind of full on 353 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: just texting them throughout the day, laughing with someone until 354 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 2: you cry doesn't happen as much, really, like sitting down 355 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 2: being present with your friends for a weekend and not 356 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: pulling up your phone to show them something or not, 357 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: you know, being like, oh, what were we talking about? 358 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 2: Because you've been distracted by a notification. It just doesn't 359 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 2: like that's all that happens these days, Like there is 360 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 2: no just sitting down and being like, I'm here, you're here. 361 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: Let's be completely present and know there isn't something more 362 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: interesting than I want to be doing. When connection just 363 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 2: becomes like I guess, an exchange of content, we do 364 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: lose the intimacy that comes from actually knowing and being 365 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 2: known by another person. And then sometimes you can get 366 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: to the point where, because you've been snacking all day, 367 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 2: like social snacking. I guess you're so tired by that 368 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: that you can't even do the real thing. Like all 369 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 2: of this technology is meant to be helping us and 370 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 2: making the real thing more convenient, but then when you're 371 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 2: so exhausted by all the stuff that happens in between, 372 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: you don't make it happen. Hopefully this is making sense, 373 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 2: But what I've been finding is that I can't even 374 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: be bothered to reply to texts or to reply to 375 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: reels or to messages anymore, because it's just so overwhelming. 376 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: There's just so much and as soon as I open 377 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: my phone, it's like, oh my god, there's like fifty 378 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: people or whatever, like I need to reply to or 379 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: there's just this actually feels like more effort for less outcome. 380 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: And so unless someone's like message, you mean to make plans, Like, 381 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 2: I'm not particularly engaged, but I also realize that so 382 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 2: much of how other people interact with each other takes 383 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 2: place in those in between moments. So that's the dilemma. 384 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: Like you both want to participate and you want to 385 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 2: be around for those moments. You also are kind of 386 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: exhausted by this process, and you understand how over reliant 387 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: you are on it, so you do want to take 388 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: a step back, like it's kind of exhausting. Really, Hopefully 389 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 2: that dilemma makes sense. The more I think about it, 390 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 2: you know, the more it does kind of sound like 391 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: a toxic relationship, right, Like me and my phone are 392 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: in a toxic relationship. We need to break up. It's 393 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: like when you get to that point with someone when 394 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: like you can't be with them anymore, but you also 395 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: don't know life without them, so you're just kind of 396 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 2: like hoping it will get better or like working up 397 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: the courage to do it. That's literally what this feels like. 398 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 2: It's kind of funny, honestly, like talking about these ananimate 399 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: objects like it's a bad boyfriend, but it kind of is. 400 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: It's this boyfriend that like actually keeps telling you that, 401 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: like you can't live without them, but you probably couldn't. 402 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 2: So with that in mind, let's take a step back. 403 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,479 Speaker 2: Let's take a step away, have a short break, Go 404 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 2: have some water, go have a tea, and let's come 405 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 2: back and talk about solutions, as well as some more 406 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: stories of people who have gone completely technology free, whether 407 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 2: they regret it, what they've learned, whether they would recommend 408 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 2: it as well, all of that and more after this 409 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: short break. So, I've been really fascinated, particularly by stories 410 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: of people who have stepped away from social media and 411 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: their phones entirely and what happened to them afterwards. I 412 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 2: feel like it's like I'm watching from afar seeing their experience. 413 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 2: They're my guinea pigs, and you're probably gonna hate what 414 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: I have to say next. All of them love it. 415 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: Literally every single person who has a story about quitting 416 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 2: their phone, all of them are like, I'm happier, I'm lighter, 417 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: I'm more productive, I smell the flowers, animals come up 418 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: to me, food tastes better, Like all of them have 419 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: a story like that. One woman who quit her smartphone 420 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: for a year and wrote this big article about it, 421 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 2: even said that that year felt like the longest year 422 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: she'd ever lived because she basically gained more time or 423 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: a greater perception of time, which like that feels pretty profound. 424 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: I think a lot of us could do with more 425 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: time in our day and a sense of more time 426 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: in our lives, more time to do things, experience things. 427 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 2: She's saying that that gave that to her, and even 428 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 2: more like kind of shocking example or story of this 429 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 2: was a town in France that has gone completely phone free. 430 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: This town is like fifty kilometers away from Paris. There's 431 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: two thousand people. It's called Sane Point Point send Port. 432 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 2: I think si n e prt senn Port very interesting. Basically, 433 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: like back in twenty twenty four, they voted on this 434 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: and their mayor was like, do we want to go 435 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: phone free? Fifty four percent of them said yes, and 436 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: so mobile phones are banned in public places. Like you 437 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 2: walk down the street apparently, and like you just don't 438 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: see phones. It's like you're from a completely different time. 439 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 2: And I don't know how they enforce that, like whether 440 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: it's a fine or what not. But people apparently really 441 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 2: really love it. I'm sure some hate it, but from 442 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: the article that interviewed the mayor, he was like, people 443 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 2: really enjoy this idea of just being present with their 444 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: neighbors and they're watchful and they're really enjoying their community 445 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: rather than just feeling sucked into this device. That gives 446 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: the impression of community. You know, when you read blog 447 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: posts and stories of people who have quit their phones, 448 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: it is it feels like people talking about being converted 449 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 2: to a new religion. And yes, of course a lot 450 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: of these cases are anecdotal and they're based on someone's 451 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 2: personal experiences, but the science does back up some of 452 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 2: their personal findings that their perspective, their worldview, their brains 453 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: feel like they've been changed. The biggest claim that's come 454 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 2: out of the scientific community recently is that just being 455 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 2: without your phone for seventy two hours or partaking in 456 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: a three day reset creates changes in your brain activity 457 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: that researchers can physically observe and see. So this particular study, 458 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: which I feel like has been talked about everywhere recently, 459 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: it was published just earlier this year in March twenty 460 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: twenty five by the University of Klonne and Heidelberg University 461 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: in Germany, and they took a number of people between 462 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 2: the age of eighteen and thirty and they basically said, 463 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 2: you are not allowed to use your phone for three 464 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 2: days unless you are literally in an emergency, do not 465 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 2: use your phone for three days. And during this three 466 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 2: day period, the researchers conducted psychological tests and they used 467 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: brain scans using fMRI to kind of just examine what 468 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 2: they were seeing and what the effects were of restricting 469 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 2: from usage. The brain scans were kind of shocking. They 470 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 2: showed the brains of basically people in withdrawal very similar 471 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: to how the brain of someone withdrawing from drugs or 472 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: alcohol would look. There were these huge shifts in the 473 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 2: reward and craving regions of the brain. And whilst they 474 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: weren't entirely clear on why this was, they basically suggested 475 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 2: that because not using your phone is a kind of 476 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 2: withdrawal from a dopamine source. Your brain is very quickly 477 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 2: trying to rewire how it can seek out stimulation and 478 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 2: pleasure elsewhere when it's been overly reliant on one source 479 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: for a long time. This is just one finding among 480 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: so many studies, and a lot of these studies I 481 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: think have cropped up largely in response to this new 482 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: anti technology revolution and whether not using your phone does 483 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: make a difference, because you kind of have these natural 484 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 2: groups that you can test against, like you have a 485 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: natural control group, you have a natural experimental group because 486 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: a lot of people have resorted to not using their phones, 487 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: whereas there's another large majority who use their phones excessively. 488 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: Another one of these studies was done in twenty twenty two. 489 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: It focused more on mood, and this time they asked 490 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: people to go without their smartphones for a week. Almost 491 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: all participants reported significantly lower levels of anxiety, specifically social anxiety, 492 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 2: and much higher levels of life satisfaction. For example, a 493 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: lot of them said their days had more good moments 494 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: than bad when they weren't using their phone. They said 495 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: they found themselves smiling more. They said they found themselves 496 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: more emotional, and more in touch with their emotions, and 497 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: that they had better social interactions without this constant influx 498 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: of notifications and stimuli. You know, I think what's really 499 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 2: happening is that the brain is allowed to return to 500 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: its natural rhythm, one that yes does include boredom, and 501 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 2: it will include scary thoughts sometimes, but also creative thoughts 502 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: and deep focus. And when any of these things come up, 503 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: they're not immediately stifled by the insertion of a screen. 504 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: They are allowed to flow naturally, and when people get 505 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 2: into the rhythm of that flow, they feel more human. Also, 506 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: to be expected, sleep improved. We know that blue light 507 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: exposure from our phones is really bad for our circadian rhythm. 508 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 2: But I think the most profound thing from this study 509 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: wasn't that they were happier. It's that actually not having 510 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: a phone didn't decimate their friendships. And obviously it was 511 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: only for a week, but there are so many other 512 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 2: examples of people who you know, are in their twenties 513 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: or in their thirties who have given up their phone 514 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 2: thinking that it was going to mean a lot of fomo, 515 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: thinking that it was going to make them more disconnected, 516 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 2: that it was going to be harder for them to 517 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: see their friends, and it turns out that it's the 518 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: complete opposite. People report that it actually gave them a 519 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: clearer view of which friends would make an effort. Also, 520 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: because they removed that social snacking in between, they saw 521 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: their friends more often, they made more plans, and they 522 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: had more fun during those plans, more fun than a 523 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: lot of them could remember having for a long time. 524 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 2: You know, these moments were richer, they were more fulfilling, 525 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: they were more enjoyable. And so I think that's something 526 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 2: that a lot of people like me in their twenties 527 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: one a year, is that going without your phone or 528 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 2: social media isn't going to destroy your life. We've been 529 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: made to feel so reliant on this thing so that 530 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: we can't stop hearing these brave people who have said, actually, like, 531 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: on the other side, it's never as bad as you 532 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: think it is. In fact, it may actually be better, 533 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: is what I'm hearing. So for those of you playing 534 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: at home, I think the evidence is kind of stacked 535 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: against me when it comes to whether I should break 536 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: up with my phone or not. Like if I was 537 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 2: doing a pro cons for this relationship, the cons of 538 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 2: keeping my phone definitely outweigh the pros let's think about 539 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: the evidence for a second, more productive, better sleep, better friendships, 540 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 2: more neural pathways evidenced against it, less convenience, maybe less 541 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 2: connection to my job for me personally, because I work 542 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: for myself. But you know, would that necessarily be a 543 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: bad thing. I think a lot of my family and friends, 544 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: my boyfriend would definitely say, like, no, maybe not being 545 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 2: connected to your job twenty four to seven would be 546 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 2: a good thing. They're probably right. So obviously, I've been 547 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 2: thinking about this before I sat down to recall this, 548 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: and I've been thinking about what a break up with 549 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 2: my phone would look like. And I do think it 550 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: would have to be rather gradual rather than like a 551 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: full blown rip the bandit off. I know I was 552 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: talking at the start about having this real big impulse 553 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 2: to just say goodbye never come back, but I think 554 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 2: it's going to be a slower thing. This is what 555 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: I'm committing to, and I'm just gonna say what my 556 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 2: plan is. If you want to follow along at home 557 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: and try these, you are more than welcome. I can't 558 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: say I'm gonna be entirely successful, but I want to 559 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: see if I can do this. For a month. We're 560 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 2: gonna start with the things I'm already doing, and then 561 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: we're gonna move on from there the things that I 562 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: want to do to see if I could go kind 563 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 2: of phone free and for how long. The first thing 564 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: I'm already doing, and if you listen to the podcast, 565 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: you'll know I've been doing this for a while. I 566 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 2: charge my phone outside of my bedroom and I have 567 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: like an old school alarm clock. It's literally like a 568 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: silver alarm clock that goes like didnit evening and then 569 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: you like hit it over the head. It's like if 570 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: you've seen Ferris Buella's Day Off, which I'm sure most 571 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: of you have, Like it's literally stereotypical, like nineteen nineties 572 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 2: silver alarm clock. And it's been great because firstly, it 573 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: makes me get out of bed a lot quicker, mainly 574 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 2: because I do want to check my phone, but also 575 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, if I don't get up with 576 00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: this one, like, there's not gonna be seven more along 577 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 2: that are gonna go off. And so that's been really 578 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 2: really useful. And I will say, like, I don't immediately 579 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 2: go to my phone. I do get up and do 580 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 2: other things. So it's not the first thing I say 581 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 2: in the last thing I say morning and night. Secondly, 582 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 2: I've been like slowly transitioning to only having social media 583 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: on my work iPad. Feel very lucky that I have 584 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 2: the additional technology and additional means to be able to 585 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: do this, but I I just social media, like it's 586 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 2: just too freaking available. People are too available. We shouldn't 587 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 2: be able to look at everyone's lives all the time 588 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 2: and think that that's normal, and think that seeing a 589 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 2: million little tiny videos every single day is what our 590 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 2: brain chemistry was made to respond to. So having it 591 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 2: on my iPad definitely gives me like a cognitive distance, 592 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 2: and it gives me like a barrier, like a friction barrier, 593 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 2: Like it's not easy, it's not immediate, like I do 594 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 2: actually have to go and turn it on and charge 595 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: it and find to be able to use it, and 596 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 2: it's kind of bulky and it's kind of hard. So 597 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 2: having that barrier fantastic. Thirdly, when I have my phone, 598 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 2: and if you're my friend, you know this, I constantly 599 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: have do not Disturb on constantly. It's probably very frustrating, 600 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 2: but it's so that I can, like I can check 601 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 2: it when I want to rather than when it wants 602 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 2: me to pay attention, Like I feel like it's switching 603 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: the script on who has power on this relationship? Me 604 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 2: on my phone, Like do not Disturb kind of doesn't 605 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 2: give it a voice, so I can just only check 606 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 2: it when I want to check it. I found that 607 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 2: very very helpful. Fourth thing I've been doing. I cannot 608 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,919 Speaker 2: use two devices at the same time, can't watch TV 609 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 2: and be on my phone. And the way that I've 610 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 2: been trying to not do that is obviously just pay 611 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 2: more attention. Like when I'm doing one thing, I'm doing 612 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 2: one thing, but also I've been kind of slowly accumulating 613 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 2: other activities to do whilst I'm watching TV at night, 614 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 2: watch whilst I'm kind of sitting at the couch, and 615 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 2: it's just like background noise, sudoco, that stuff, Like it 616 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 2: is so much fun doing sudoko. I've become a little 617 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 2: bit obsessed with it, Like I can't leave the house 618 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 2: unless I've done like a couple I got one of 619 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 2: those like big books from the news agency and I've 620 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 2: done half of it now. Whenever I catch flats, I 621 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: always found like the sudoko in like the back of 622 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,399 Speaker 2: the magazine. It's so engaging. I feel like I'm also 623 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: doing a lot for my long term brain health in 624 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,919 Speaker 2: terms of protecting against dementia. Like I'm doing these little 625 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 2: brain exercises every single day, and you can just kind 626 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,479 Speaker 2: of sit there and like mindlessly do it and still 627 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 2: be kind of focusing. I also someone got me a 628 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: Lego set the other day or so much fun. Like 629 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: Lego is. It's literally a billion dollar industry. So I'm 630 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 2: not surprising anyone when I say that I'm enjoying it. 631 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people enjoy it. But it's 632 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 2: feels amazing. It feels so great doing something with your 633 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 2: hands whilst you know you're watching your TV show, especially 634 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 2: if you're someone who struggles to just concentrate on one 635 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 2: thing at once. Friend of mine is also teaching me 636 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 2: how to knit. My beautiful friend Chia. She made me 637 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 2: this gorgeous scarf, and I was like, I I feel 638 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 2: like I need to learn how to make something because 639 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 2: how often how many of us know how to like 640 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: truly make something these days, Like you know, maybe some 641 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 2: of us know how to make cookies or like you 642 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 2: really tried, you could make like a box out of wood. 643 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 2: But we're really losing like these skills that were used 644 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 2: to perfect long ago, and so getting back to that 645 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,919 Speaker 2: and like having someone who is really good at something 646 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 2: be able to teach me. It's also like a fun 647 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 2: social thing. Actually saw someone the other day talk about how, 648 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 2: in their journey to kind of stop using their phone 649 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 2: as much, they had a boredom menu. They found that 650 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 2: their major trigger for using their phone, even when they 651 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 2: didn't want to, it was just that they had run 652 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 2: out of things to do, and like their brain was 653 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 2: just obviously pleasure hunting and like stimulation hunting. So she 654 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 2: has this big list of things to do when she's bored, 655 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: including chores, including things that she would never normally have 656 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 2: on her to do list. That a thing she kind 657 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 2: of wants to do. Like that is something that I 658 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: think I need to implement more. Obviously I've done it 659 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 2: a little bit. I can see how that would be 660 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 2: very effective. This is also something I'm working towards, which 661 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: is using gray scale on my phone. I don't do 662 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 2: this all the time. I actually find it to be well. 663 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: I think the point is that it's meant to make 664 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 2: the appeal of the phone less alluring by putting everything 665 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 2: in black, white and gray. But I find it comes 666 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: sometimes kind of gives me a headache, but the technique 667 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 2: is definitely effective. By removing color, I definitely have noticed 668 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 2: that there's like less accidental sensory overload. So that is 669 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 2: something that is definitely a quick I think, a quick replacement, 670 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 2: quick fix that gets to like the root of the problem. Also, 671 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 2: I have ordered a flip phone, and I'm going to 672 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: keep you updated on how it goes. But it's pink. 673 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 2: It was like one hundred dollars from Office Works, and 674 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 2: I'm excited for it to arrive. Like I think it's 675 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 2: going to be a fun little accessory. And what I 676 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 2: really want to do is just begin by taking it 677 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 2: to the park when I walk my dog, and like 678 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 2: just giving that number to my boyfriend and to my 679 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: close friends and to like my parents, and then taking 680 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 2: it like to run errands, and then taking it for 681 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 2: like day trips or like into work so that I'm 682 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 2: not entirely disconnected. But there is like not this not 683 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 2: the brain drain of the of the iPhone being next 684 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 2: to me that I constantly feel inclined to like scroll 685 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 2: and swipe and do things on just because it's there, 686 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 2: especially like when I'm commuting or when I'm just like 687 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 2: in moments of stillness, I really want to try and 688 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: not just feel like the first thing I can do 689 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 2: to entertain myself is to pick up this device that 690 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 2: requires absolutely no active energy from me. One thing I 691 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 2: will say about the flip phone, though, and if you 692 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 2: have a flip phone, tell me how you are going 693 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 2: with this, is that I kind of want a hamra 694 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 2: on me. Feel like that's gonna be the biggest issue, 695 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 2: especially with like restaurants or having QR codes these days. 696 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,919 Speaker 2: I think that's gonna be I guess you could always 697 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 2: order at the counter, but also just you know, if 698 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 2: my dog does something cute or if I see something cool, 699 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 2: I do think I'll miss that. But I think we 700 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 2: crossed the bridge. That bridge when we come to it. 701 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: I also don't want to replace one technology with like 702 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 2: a thousand more pieces of technology. I don't think that's realistic, 703 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 2: you know. I feel like I've spoken about getting the 704 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 2: iPad and there's one piece of technology, and then getting 705 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 2: the flip phone that's two pieces of technology, and then 706 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 2: getting the camera it's like that's three, and it's like 707 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 2: I kind of see why they made these obviously. But finally, 708 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 2: I think with that I do kind of want to 709 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 2: work up to doing phone free weekends, no phone. One 710 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 2: of my friends Meg, like recently went away with her 711 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 2: boyfriend and she left her phone in Sydney and she 712 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 2: was telling me how like the first hour she was 713 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 2: like kind of panicking, and then she was like, Oh, 714 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. So no phone for a weekend and 715 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 2: then maybe no phone for a week on holiday. That's 716 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 2: something I want to work up to. I'm going to 717 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 2: report back. Please hold me accountable if someone can like, 718 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 2: dam me, if you're listening to this in like three months, 719 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 2: can you dam me and say, hey, did you end 720 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 2: up doing that? So that I feel some sense of 721 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 2: like external responsibility. Mainly, I think just being aware of 722 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 2: how much time my phone has drained out of my 723 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 2: life has been important in itself. I have a lot 724 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 2: of excuses, some of them may even be valid, but 725 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 2: the only person I'm making those excuses to is me, 726 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 2: and I'm also the one who's suffering the consequences. And 727 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 2: so I think a big part of this is just 728 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 2: having a frank chat with myself and being like, does 729 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 2: your phone usage and does your technology usage actually align 730 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 2: with how you see yourself and actually align with how 731 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 2: you see your life, because the answer is no. I 732 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,439 Speaker 2: don't see myself as someone who wants to waste time, 733 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 2: and I don't see myself as doing things that are 734 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 2: completely at times useless. And I have a lot of 735 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 2: things I want to achieve, and I have a lot 736 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 2: of projects that I'm working on, and I am feeling 737 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 2: very time poor. At the same time, it's like, well, 738 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 2: I can't be sitting here saying that I'm time poor 739 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 2: if I have time to scroll for six to seven 740 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 2: hours a day, like two things cannot be true. So 741 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 2: I want to just reclaim my attention for myself and 742 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 2: I want to reclaim my time for myself and just 743 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 2: stit and be present with what I'm doing. And I 744 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 2: think this will be a good challenge for that, a 745 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 2: challenge in delayed gratification, a challenge in uncomfortable stillness and boredom, 746 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 2: and just I want to see if I can do it, 747 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 2: and I want to see if it's something that will 748 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 2: actually help me. I have a feeling that it will. 749 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 2: Considering every single person who ever I've talked about it 750 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 2: with genuinely sounds like they are in a cult. So 751 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 2: am I willingly signing up for this cult? Yeah? I 752 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 2: think I am, and I will report back, but yeah, 753 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 2: tell me what you think. To tell me in the 754 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 2: comments below, if you are also having this strange dilemma 755 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 2: with your phone, whether you're also seeing the appeal of 756 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 2: all these people who are leaving technology behind. Do we 757 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 2: think this is going to become more common and more popular, 758 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 2: especially as people are kind of at their wits end 759 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 2: with social media and with technology and with AI and 760 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: with all these other things. I think so, I personally 761 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 2: think that it's going to be like a huge counterculture, 762 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 2: counter revolutionary thing. I'm excited to be a participant. Maybe 763 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 2: hopefully let me know your thoughts below, and make sure 764 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 2: that you are following along whatever you are listening to 765 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 2: this episode, whether you're on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcasts, so 766 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 2: that you know when we release new episodes, maybe even 767 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 2: an update episode to this one. Make sure you yes 768 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 2: again leave a comment below and are following us on 769 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 2: Instagram at that Psychology podcast, so that you can let 770 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 2: me know your thoughts and also share any future suggestions 771 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 2: for episodes you want us to cover, any topics about 772 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 2: our twenties, about culture, about psychology, about so much more. 773 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,760 Speaker 2: And until next time, Stay safe, be kind, be gentle 774 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 2: to yourself, get off, get off your damn phone, and 775 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 2: we will talk very very soon.